The Fine Gael thread

[lynchbhoy]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.

The general population went for a €64 billion bank bailout without a whimper.

They took the Universal Social Charge without saying boo.

The only protest I've seen happened when the 'general population' were at work. These wasters won't even have to pay for water charges.

The irony of your support for them is fascinating. The organisers are targeting SF seats in the next election, just look at Murphy's recent success.. They know Gerry won't put his troops in the streets this time, because he wants to appear all Governmental, so they are going all out. It has nothing to do with water charges just like the Bin Tags protest had nothing to to with Bin Tags.

I don't think its the shinners either- at least they cant take the 'credit' !!

[foxcommander]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.

The general population went for a €64 billion bank bailout without a whimper.

They took the Universal Social Charge without saying boo.

The only protest I've seen happened when the 'general population' were at work. These wasters won't even have to pay for water charges.

The irony of your support for them is fascinating. The organisers are targeting SF seats in the next election, just look at Murphy's recent success.. They know Gerry won't put his troops in the streets this time, because he wants to appear all Governmental, so they are going all out. It has nothing to do with water charges just like the Bin Tags protest had nothing to to with Bin Tags.

Was the population actually clued in to what the bailout would involve at that time?

The USC was accepted as a fundraising exercise. I think people thought that this would be their extra contribution. Adding water charges on top just seems like they'll come up with something else again and again.

Only "wasters" protest at the water charges? Is that how you view protesters?

I don't get what you think is ironic.

[foxcommander]

They tell us 100,000 or more protested ( that is the proper civilised march protests) - so what did the other 4,500,000 residents of the 26 Cos do?

Sat on their arse waiting for someone else to do the hard work and then if there's anything to be gained they'll not be shy in asking
or taking advantage of.

It's the way ireland works...

[Rossfan]

They tell us 100,000 or more protested ( that is the proper civilised march protests) - so what did the other 4,500,000 residents of the 26 Cos do?

Sat on their arse waiting for someone else to do the hard work and then if there's anything to be gained they'll not be shy in asking
or taking advantage of.

It's the way ireland works...

I think you will find that they were at work, shopping, cooking, playing sport, washing their cars, doing garden work etc etc.
Also many of them are too young, too old or ill etc.
Real people have real lives to be living in the real world

[muppet]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.

The general population went for a €64 billion bank bailout without a whimper.

They took the Universal Social Charge without saying boo.

The only protest I've seen happened when the 'general population' were at work. These wasters won't even have to pay for water charges.

The irony of your support for them is fascinating. The organisers are targeting SF seats in the next election, just look at Murphy's recent success.. They know Gerry won't put his troops in the streets this time, because he wants to appear all Governmental, so they are going all out. It has nothing to do with water charges just like the Bin Tags protest had nothing to to with Bin Tags.

I don't think its the shinners either- at least they cant take the 'credit' !!

That's what I am saying, the Shinners are staying out of of the protests.

[muppet]

Just so people know who is really in charge:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1120/660891-water-charges/

An assessment of the Government's revised water charges will be carried out by the European Commission as part of its review of Ireland's progress after the EU IMF bailout.

The Troika has been in Dublin this week meeting Government officials and staff from the Central Bank and Nama.

Sources close to the commission said there was surprise at the changes to Irish Water's fees as officials had expected earlier plans would be implemented.

[Maguire01]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.

The general population went for a €64 billion bank bailout without a whimper.

They took the Universal Social Charge without saying boo.

The only protest I've seen happened when the 'general population' were at work. These wasters won't even have to pay for water charges.

The irony of your support for them is fascinating. The organisers are targeting SF seats in the next election, just look at Murphy's recent success.. They know Gerry won't put his troops in the streets this time, because he wants to appear all Governmental, so they are going all out. It has nothing to do with water charges just like the Bin Tags protest had nothing to to with Bin Tags.

Was the population actually clued in to what the bailout would involve at that time?

The USC was accepted as a fundraising exercise. I think people thought that this would be their extra contribution. Adding water charges on top just seems like they'll come up with something else again and again.

Only "wasters" protest at the water charges? Is that how you view protesters?

I don't get what you think is ironic.

The plan for water charges has been on the cards for years now - it's not something they've just come up with - it was planned before the current government came to power.

[Maguire01]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.

'Sinister' is throwing a brick, throwing water balloons, blocking someone in a car for several hours. Anything that doesn't qualify as peaceful protest. I don't need anyone to explain that to me - it's my perception.

[foxcommander]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.

The general population went for a €64 billion bank bailout without a whimper.

They took the Universal Social Charge without saying boo.

The only protest I've seen happened when the 'general population' were at work. These wasters won't even have to pay for water charges.

The irony of your support for them is fascinating. The organisers are targeting SF seats in the next election, just look at Murphy's recent success.. They know Gerry won't put his troops in the streets this time, because he wants to appear all Governmental, so they are going all out. It has nothing to do with water charges just like the Bin Tags protest had nothing to to with Bin Tags.

Was the population actually clued in to what the bailout would involve at that time?

The USC was accepted as a fundraising exercise. I think people thought that this would be their extra contribution. Adding water charges on top just seems like they'll come up with something else again and again.

Only "wasters" protest at the water charges? Is that how you view protesters?

I don't get what you think is ironic.

The plan for water charges has been on the cards for years now - it's not something they've just come up with - it was planned before the current government came to power.

By Fianna Fail? Nice of Fine Gael to implement their plan for government.

Who said there was a difference!!

[Maguire01]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.

The general population went for a €64 billion bank bailout without a whimper.

They took the Universal Social Charge without saying boo.

The only protest I've seen happened when the 'general population' were at work. These wasters won't even have to pay for water charges.

The irony of your support for them is fascinating. The organisers are targeting SF seats in the next election, just look at Murphy's recent success.. They know Gerry won't put his troops in the streets this time, because he wants to appear all Governmental, so they are going all out. It has nothing to do with water charges just like the Bin Tags protest had nothing to to with Bin Tags.

Was the population actually clued in to what the bailout would involve at that time?

The USC was accepted as a fundraising exercise. I think people thought that this would be their extra contribution. Adding water charges on top just seems like they'll come up with something else again and again.

Only "wasters" protest at the water charges? Is that how you view protesters?

I don't get what you think is ironic.

The plan for water charges has been on the cards for years now - it's not something they've just come up with - it was planned before the current government came to power.

By Fianna Fail? Nice of Fine Gael to implement their plan for government.

Who said there was a difference!!

It was the Troika's plan.

[armaghniac]

Every country in Europe and pretty much everywhere else has water charges. Now you may or may not agree with water charges as a detail of policy, but all this marching about and pretending that this is some sort of outrageous imposition is ridiculous.

[Lar Naparka]

Every country in Europe and pretty much everywhere else has water charges. Now you may or may not agree with water charges as a detail of policy, but all this marching about and pretending that this is some sort of outrageous imposition is ridiculous.

But we are already paying for our water and have been doing so since domestic rates were introduced. Before the '77 General Election, water and refuse charges were included in the rates. When those and a list of other direct taxes were abolished, they were replaced by higher rates of Vat and income tax and other forms of indirect taxation.
Gradually over the intervening years, every single tax that was done away with (refuse charges, car tax etc.) have been re-introduced without a corresponding decrease in the levies that replaced them.
Water charges are the last remaining element of the pre-77 domestic rates to be brought back and like all the others, it's coming in on top of the money we are already paying for that service. It's a double whammy in other words.
FFS, I'll pay up when the grippers arrive on my doorstep and not a second before!

[macdanger2]

Every country in Europe and pretty much everywhere else has water charges. Now you may or may not agree with water charges as a detail of policy, but all this marching about and pretending that this is some sort of outrageous imposition is ridiculous.

But we are already paying for our water and have been doing so since domestic rates were introduced. Before the '77 General Election, water and refuse charges were included in the rates. When those and a list of other direct taxes were abolished, they were replaced by higher rates of Vat and income tax and other forms of indirect taxation.
Gradually over the intervening years, every single tax that was done away with (refuse charges, car tax etc.) have been re-introduced without a corresponding decrease in the levies that replaced them.
Water charges are the last remaining element of the pre-77 domestic rates to be brought back and like all the others, it's coming in on top of the money we are already paying for that service. It's a double whammy in other words.
FFS, I'll pay up when the grippers arrive on my doorstep and not a second before!

So where would you get the money to repair the leaks and to prevent raw sewerage being dumped into the sea?

[weareros]

Unfortunately Irish people don't give a shit. Same reason we destroyed our rail system, same reason we destroy our heritage sites, same reason we threw up ugly housing estates all over the place. You'd think as a people we'd be glad to fix those leaks and stop polluting our rivers and pay a modest amount to fix it. But sure begorrah doesn't water come from the sky. Look at Ros. Luke Ming Flanagan was part of a county council that oversaw a water system that was and is pure poison. He's now one of the "we won't pay". No surprise he's one of those intent to destroy our bogs. Sure cutting turf is a way of life. Let's keep cutting till we leave the province in shit.

Hey anyone want to go out and protest the relocation of pedophiles to our towns. Thought not.

[lynchbhoy]

Every country in Europe and pretty much everywhere else has water charges. Now you may or may not agree with water charges as a detail of policy, but all this marching about and pretending that this is some sort of outrageous imposition is ridiculous.

But we are already paying for our water and have been doing so since domestic rates were introduced. Before the '77 General Election, water and refuse charges were included in the rates. When those and a list of other direct taxes were abolished, they were replaced by higher rates of Vat and income tax and other forms of indirect taxation.
Gradually over the intervening years, every single tax that was done away with (refuse charges, car tax etc.) have been re-introduced without a corresponding decrease in the levies that replaced them.
Water charges are the last remaining element of the pre-77 domestic rates to be brought back and like all the others, it's coming in on top of the money we are already paying for that service. It's a double whammy in other words.
FFS, I'll pay up when the grippers arrive on my doorstep and not a second before!

So where would you get the money to repair the leaks and to prevent raw sewerage being dumped into the sea?

I think Lar is trying to say that the money for these was already supposed to be included in taxes we paid and that these were outlined at the time that this is what they were for!

but the water system has been neglected and the supposedly money allocated for maintenance was not used for this purpose.
so we prob have to pay extra now for the negligence and to fix this and for the treatment of raw sewage being dumped into the sea.

im not unhappy to pay a wee bit and can do so, but others cant afford it. it also is a bit much when they are trying to gloss over the public service's negligence and attempt to con us.
but these things need more money.