The Fine Gael thread

[foxcommander]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??

I agree it's probably too late to change this but it appears the public are fed up of being lied to when its fairly obvious what the government are up to.

The mindset of the irish people needed to change. For too long they have accepted being screwed over by their overlords, both irish and foreign.

[macdanger2]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??

I agree it's probably too late to change this but it appears the public are fed up of being lied to when its fairly obvious what the government are up to.

The mindset of the irish people needed to change. For too long they have accepted being screwed over by their overlords, both irish and foreign.

Was just looking online there and in FGs 2011 manifesto, it clearly states that a new water utility company will be established and water will be charged for. I couldn't find the labour manifesto but as far as I recall they had that policy also. FF for all their talk now were going to introduce the same sort of setup. Not sure was SF policy on it was

As such, the water charges shouldn't be a shock to anyone - the majority of people voted for parties who said upfront that they'd introduce them.

[muppet]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??

I agree it's probably too late to change this but it appears the public are fed up of being lied to when its fairly obvious what the government are up to.

The mindset of the irish people needed to change. For too long they have accepted being screwed over by their overlords, both irish and foreign.

Was just looking online there and in FGs 2011 manifesto, it clearly states that a new water utility company will be established and water will be charged for. I couldn't find the labour manifesto but as far as I recall they had that policy also. FF for all their talk now were going to introduce the same sort of setup. Not sure was SF policy on it was

As such, the water charges shouldn't be a shock to anyone - the majority of people voted for parties who said upfront that they'd introduce them.

It was also in the Troika (IMF) deal signed by Lenihan in 2010.

The protests are being run by people with their own agendas.

[Rossfan]

Labour will be terrified of an election at any time and FG will have told their increasingly squeamish troops that next years budget will be a giveaway. They will go the distance.

Gerry & SF need to appear all stately between now and then as they plan to be in the next Government. Fighting on the streets will not help them so we won't see any from them, but equally keeping everyone on message needs a lot of promises. The promises will only be a problem after the election.

FF will go into Government with anyone next time. But they are in no rush to an election either as the collapse is still fresh in some memories, even if many seem to have forgotten how we got here.

The lunatic fringe of a left leaning are behind the most public of the current protests. The questionable behaviour is to make sure that no ordinary people like most of us here, join up. They don't want us. They have their niche and run a crusade every few years (bin tax, property tax etc.) but are not serious about actually getting anywhere. The organisers make a great living off the easily led, but there are very few of them remotely genuine.

So, as no one wants an election in the short term, I honestly can't see one happening.

Excellent post Muppet and so spot on.
As far as I recall the Troika loans won't be paid off till 2042 so we can get used to them making us stick to the agreement they imposed on FF in 2010.
As for the loony left eejits - they're not doing the anti water charge position much good with their thuggery - just showing what we could expect if they ever got anywhere - bit like Germany in the early 30s.

[Hardy]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??

I agree it's probably too late to change this but it appears the public are fed up of being lied to when its fairly obvious what the government are up to.

The mindset of the irish people needed to change. For too long they have accepted being screwed over by their overlords, both irish and foreign.

Was just looking online there and in FGs 2011 manifesto, it clearly states that a new water utility company will be established and water will be charged for. I couldn't find the labour manifesto but as far as I recall they had that policy also. FF for all their talk now were going to introduce the same sort of setup. Not sure was SF policy on it was

As such, the water charges shouldn't be a shock to anyone - the majority of people voted for parties who said upfront that they'd introduce them.

http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/labour_election_manifesto_2011.pdf

"Labour does not favour water charges, which do not address the immediate needs of those who currently receive intermittent or poor water supplies."

[macdanger2]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??

I agree it's probably too late to change this but it appears the public are fed up of being lied to when its fairly obvious what the government are up to.

The mindset of the irish people needed to change. For too long they have accepted being screwed over by their overlords, both irish and foreign.

Was just looking online there and in FGs 2011 manifesto, it clearly states that a new water utility company will be established and water will be charged for. I couldn't find the labour manifesto but as far as I recall they had that policy also. FF for all their talk now were going to introduce the same sort of setup. Not sure was SF policy on it was

As such, the water charges shouldn't be a shock to anyone - the majority of people voted for parties who said upfront that they'd introduce them.

http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/labour_election_manifesto_2011.pdf

"Labour does not favour water charges, which do not address the immediate needs of those who currently receive intermittent or poor water supplies."

I would read that as "if your water supply is bad, we won't charge you" and "we will apply water charges and use the proceeds to improve supply"

[foxcommander]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??

I agree it's probably too late to change this but it appears the public are fed up of being lied to when its fairly obvious what the government are up to.

The mindset of the irish people needed to change. For too long they have accepted being screwed over by their overlords, both irish and foreign.

Was just looking online there and in FGs 2011 manifesto, it clearly states that a new water utility company will be established and water will be charged for. I couldn't find the labour manifesto but as far as I recall they had that policy also. FF for all their talk now were going to introduce the same sort of setup. Not sure was SF policy on it was

As such, the water charges shouldn't be a shock to anyone - the majority of people voted for parties who said upfront that they'd introduce them.

FG also promised not to close A+E in certain hospitals and didn't keep to it.  Just because they write something down doesn't mean that it has to be accepted as fact that it must happen. Plenty of fiction in their election propaganda last time around about being accountable for their actions too.
It's not like the public voted FG in on the basis of accepting the formation of a water utility company.

[macdanger2]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??

I agree it's probably too late to change this but it appears the public are fed up of being lied to when its fairly obvious what the government are up to.

The mindset of the irish people needed to change. For too long they have accepted being screwed over by their overlords, both irish and foreign.

Was just looking online there and in FGs 2011 manifesto, it clearly states that a new water utility company will be established and water will be charged for. I couldn't find the labour manifesto but as far as I recall they had that policy also. FF for all their talk now were going to introduce the same sort of setup. Not sure was SF policy on it was

As such, the water charges shouldn't be a shock to anyone - the majority of people voted for parties who said upfront that they'd introduce them.

FG also promised not to close A+E in certain hospitals and didn't keep to it.  Just because they write something down doesn't mean that it has to be accepted as fact that it must happen. Plenty of fiction in their election propaganda last time around about being accountable for their actions too.
It's not like the public voted FG in on the basis of accepting the formation of a water utility company.

I thought we were talking specifically about water charges here though??

[foxcommander]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??

I agree it's probably too late to change this but it appears the public are fed up of being lied to when its fairly obvious what the government are up to.

The mindset of the irish people needed to change. For too long they have accepted being screwed over by their overlords, both irish and foreign.

Was just looking online there and in FGs 2011 manifesto, it clearly states that a new water utility company will be established and water will be charged for. I couldn't find the labour manifesto but as far as I recall they had that policy also. FF for all their talk now were going to introduce the same sort of setup. Not sure was SF policy on it was

As such, the water charges shouldn't be a shock to anyone - the majority of people voted for parties who said upfront that they'd introduce them.

FG also promised not to close A+E in certain hospitals and didn't keep to it.  Just because they write something down doesn't mean that it has to be accepted as fact that it must happen. Plenty of fiction in their election propaganda last time around about being accountable for their actions too.
It's not like the public voted FG in on the basis of accepting the formation of a water utility company.

I thought we were talking specifically about water charges here though??

Yep - I was just pointing out that they can be selective when they want to be about what they implement.

[macdanger2]

Yeah, that's true. Most parties who get elected probably don't fulfil many of their election promises though. If a party were to be honest during an election, would they actually get elected? Or would we vote for the other party who promise the sun moon and stars? I'd say the latter

The mindset of people does need to change but maybe it's before the elections when we're being made unrealistic promises that we need to ask more questions

[foxcommander]

Yeah, that's true. Most parties who get elected probably don't fulfil many of their election promises though. If a party were to be honest during an election, would they actually get elected? Or would we vote for the other party who promise the sun moon and stars? I'd say the latter

The mindset of people does need to change but maybe it's before the elections when we're being made unrealistic promises that we need to ask more questions

Absolutely. A governments manifesto for office should be reviewed publicly when the term is up and then the people can judge their performance a little better.

Maybe Enda will rehash his "contract" again

[Maguire01]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

[foxcommander]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.

[muppet]

The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.

The general population went for a €64 billion bank bailout without a whimper.

They took the Universal Social Charge without saying boo.

The only protest I've seen happened when the 'general population' were at work. These wasters won't even have to pay for water charges.

The irony of your support for them is fascinating. The organisers are targeting SF seats in the next election, just look at Murphy's recent success.. They know Gerry won't put his troops in the streets this time, because he wants to appear all Governmental, so they are going all out. It has nothing to do with water charges just like the Bin Tags protest had nothing to to with Bin Tags.

[Rossfan]

Agree with you on this one Muppet.
Foxcommander and his "popular uprising" .... pleeeeease..
They tell us 100,000 or more protested ( that is the proper civilised march protests) - so what did the other 4,500,000 residents of the 26 Cos do?
As for the tramps who attacked Burton in Tallaght and Kenny in Sligo - scumbags reminiscent of Germany in the early 30s.