The Fine Gael thread

[lawnseed]

The Fine Gael thread has turned into a real kick in the Shinns.

true. the slightest implication that sinn fein would hold the balance of power after the next election has scattered the pigeons. with reference to mary o rourke, mary didn't say "coalition" for nothing what she was doing was throwing out the bait for a reaction. better to hold onto power and swallow a little pride than to see the end of dynasty politics. watch closely as ff/fg circle the wagons roping in the lucindas and the eamon o cuivs respectively as and election approaches.

AND WATCH THEM BOTH LAY OFF EACH OTHER AND ATTACK SINN FEIN INSTEAD..

[Lar Naparka]

Now who should I choose to believe: A confidential report by British Intelligence prepared for the Cabinet or you, a less than impartial observer?

I would take both with a large large dose of salt 

Let it be recorded for posterity, Ross; we have finally found something we can agree on.
But all the same, I'd give a bitten more credence to the Brits' report than I normally would. For one thing, it was a cabinet document and wasn't meant for publication so there is no apparent reason to believe that it was intended to mislead anybody.
But, if you don't want to believe anything from the Brits, you could take a lot at what Danny Morrison has to say on the subject of electoral fraud in NI;
"Long before Sinn Fein stood for elections in the North electoral malpractice was common - 'Vote Early, Vote Often', being the legendary catchphrase of campaigners who correctly assumed 'the other side' was equally engaged in impersonation."

Surely the shinners wouldn't ask you and I to believe that Danny was telling porkies?
http://www.dannymorrison.com/wp-content/dannymorrisonarchive/018.htm

I never thought that John Hume and David Trimble could ever agree on anything but I was wrong.

"A bitter row broke out in Northern Ireland yesterday as Unionists and the SDLP accused Sinn Fein of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation, A bitter row broke out in Northern Ireland yesterday as Unionists and the SDLP accused Sinn Fein of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation, and republicans hit back with counter-accusations of malpractice, which they said benefited Unionists.

(This was just after the 2001 election.)
Like Danny Morrison says, the whole lot were "voting early and often."

You can read the details here;
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/06/uk.election200112

If everything was above board up there, why did the Brits feel the need to introduce Electoral Fraud (Northern Ireland) Act 2002?
What do you think?

This is 2013. Any actual, you know...proof...for your allegation that SF currently "fiddle the system"?

I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you....This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.

For the record, brit documents from 30 years ago (which contained zero proof), and claims made 12 years ago by parties viciously opposed to SF, with no evidence to support the claims, do not count as proof of electoral fraud taking place to this day, as you are alleging).

And also for the record, the guardian article you linked to did not contain any details, never mind "all the details". All it contained were (needless to say, unsubstantiated) allegations of electoral fraud and was written before the election in question even took place. So again, if you would like to prove SF currently engage in electoral fraud, you will need to do better than this to substantiate your claim.

As for your Danny Morrison claims, it seems you were being more than a little misleading. What Danny said, was that "vote early, vote often" was the practice "long before Sinn Féin stood for elections". He goes on to describe allegations that the SF's 2001 election vote was down to impersonation and multiple registration as a "myth" and that Joe Hendron of the SDLP was the only one to be charged (and found guilty) of breaking the rules.

Nally, this is definitely the last time I'm going to indulge you. I know I already said this to Rossfan but since you take a statement like this:  "But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs" to mean I was speaking about the present, I'll make one more allowance.

For the record, this was a cabinet document, meant to be seen by Maggie and her ministers and then archived. Therefore, it couldn't have propaganda value of any sort and would remain archived for at least 20 years.
Why do you think that the cabinet should need actual case histories to prove anything?
They were getting a briefing prepared by their intelligence agencies and unless you feel their own agents were deliberately misleading trhe British GOvernment, this report was presented to them in good faith.

As for what I had to say about Danny Morrison, it's ironic that you should claim I was "more than a little misleading." A bit of double standards here I'm afraid.

I take it for granted that anyone reading this knows that Danny Morrison was an IRA/Sinn Fein apologist. I provided a link to the article I was referring to so readers could read it and draw their own conclusions.
The entire text was there to be seen.
What Danny said was ""Long before Sinn Fein stood for elections in the North electoral malpractice was common - 'Vote Early, Vote Often', being the legendary catchphrase of campaigners who correctly assumed 'the other side' was equally engaged in impersonation."
He didn't add that this malpractice stopped when SF arrived on the scene or that SF didn't engage in this practice either.
I take from the above that all other parties at least continued this malpractice from this point onwards if Danny is to be believed. Otherwise why would he could to the trouble to state an obvious fact would have been out of context?

The point of the exercise was to rubbish claims that SF's 2001 election vote was down to impersonation and multiple registration. I believe you are asking your readers to agree with Danny that this is a "myth."

Yet you are asking us to accept that counter claims by John Hume and David Trimble can be put down to "claims made 12 years ago by parties viciously opposed to SF..."  With or without substantiation, I'd need a little bit more before I could agree with you.
The Brits introduced the Electoral Fraud) Act of 2002 in response to the general public's lack of confidence in the electoral system. One may say it was a move designed to damage Sinn Fein alone but that "one" isn't me.

Would you accept what the present Lord Mayor of Belfast, Mairtin O Muillereoir, has to say about Sinn Fein's involvement  in vote rigging?
(At least I think he's still there.)
http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/01/17/in-passing-mairtin-o-muilleoir-admits-voter-fraud/

Under the heading, "In passing: Máirtín Ó Muilleoir confirms voter fraud," you'll find this statement:
"I know a guy (to whom I remain very close) who voted 13 timesin the 1983 election when Gerry Adams took the West Belfast seat from Gerry Fitt, one of the most important milestones passed in this revolution. Wish I was that guy on Sunday week at the Sinn Féin special ard fheis."

TBH, it's hard to make sense of the whole article because Martin has about the same level of competence in the English as lawnseed, but he did post it and he hasn't objected (ASAIK) to the wording of the title.
Now, with regard to what you chose to say about my advice to treublue that SF should stick to constitutional politics and keep the gun out of the picture or something like that, once again, you quoting me out of context.
Lawnseed had put up a post that could be taken to mean that SF would sell their on mothers to get their hands on power/money.
Since I'm inclined to believe that and, as others posters were poking fun at him, I decided to join in.
I got a response from trueblue demanding that I answer lawnseed's question.
Since I wasn't altogether sure that lawnseed uses the English language in his efforts to communicate with us, I couldn't answer a question I couldn't understand.
Trueblue, marginally more clued in than poor lawnseed, came back to demand that I explain why people down were so slow to accept SF's claims that it had truly forsaken violence and was now a genuine party. (Okay, those are my words, not his but I think I just about got his meaning.)
After all, he said, FF and FG had began life the same way as SF, so why do we accept that they are constitutional arties while SF are still distrusted so much.
(My words again but that's the best I can make of trueblue-speak.)
So I answered his question to the best of my ability and he replied:
"I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

I think I gave him a very detailed list of reasons for this and I emphasised that Sinn Fein would have to keep the gun out of politics and stay away for vote-rigging for a much longer time than they claim to have done.
It's now 90 years on from the Civil War and old animosities are still there.
Down here, people still remember the murder of Jerry McCabe and the Provo/Sinn Fein initial denial of involvement. This happened in '96, two years after they declared a ceasefire.
The Irish authorities are satisfied that the motive behind the robbery was to build up another arsenal in order to re-start the conflict.
The Canary Wharf bombing took place in '96.
And you wonder why people down here are so slow to accept your bona fides!
If the above isn't enough to explain this level of continuing distrust, here's yet another reason for it.
Remember this happened in 2003, years after your lot swore they'd be good boys and girls from now on and would never, ever go near them nasty gums and the likes again.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ira-tax-scam-helps-fund-sinn-fein-26237617.html

Friday 16 August 2013
IRA tax scam helps fund Sinn Fein

A TAX scam operated by IRA figures earned millions ofeuro and money from the fraud went to Sinn Fein's electoral funds, say gardai.
The tax exemption certificate fraud, rooted in the construction industry, was uncovered by the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation earlier this year. The bureau raided more than 20 houses and offices in September and on Thursday and Friday raided houses in Finglas, Meath and Louth and seized thousands of documents relating to the scam.
One of the figures centrally involved is a senior republican. A long-standing member of the IRA, he is regarded as a key backroom figure in Sinn Fein.
As a result of the involvement of the IRA - which is now dormant with almost all republican activity directed towards Sinn Fein's electoral advance - the fraud detectives were accompanied by members of the Special Branch on Friday's raids. One man was arrested by the branch officers after they found two stun guns in his house.
If you're still not fully convinced, you can follow this link and see what you find there.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-fein-chiefs-aware-ceasefire-was-to-be-shattered-26009541.html
Here's the heading and the opening paragraph and after that, you're on your own.

Sinn Fein chiefs aware ceasefire was to be shattered
LEADING members of Sinn Fein were aware in advance that the IRA intended to call off its 1994 ceasefire which was shattered by a massive bomb at Canary Wharf in London's docklands in February 1996.

Throughout this bizarre exchange, I have provided reference sources to corroborate what I had to say and I have given detailed reasons for any point I wanted to make.
ON the other hands, you have relied on snide comments and sarcastic one- liners to make you case.
While you want proof in forensic detail for every thing I say, you have no intention to check anything as you can't be bothered to go to the trouble of doing a google search.
Here's my last offer:
If you don't want to use your iPhone, to check anything out, you can send me a list of search terms you wish to use. I will then do the searching for you and post the url of every first page SERPs page that comes up.
I have asked you to find an article from any form of media, including An Phoblacht or any other Shinner source to give Wee Marty's adventures down here any sort of credit/praise or whatever.
Now either put up or shut up.

[Farrandeelin]

Funny how 'The Fine Gael Thread' turned into 'The Sinn Féin Thread'.

[muppet]

Funny how 'The Fine Gael Thread' turned into 'The Sinn Féin Thread'.

It's more the Lawnseed's view of Sinn Féin thread.

[Nally Stand]

Now who should I choose to believe: A confidential report by British Intelligence prepared for the Cabinet or you, a less than impartial observer?

I would take both with a large large dose of salt 

Let it be recorded for posterity, Ross; we have finally found something we can agree on.
But all the same, I'd give a bitten more credence to the Brits' report than I normally would. For one thing, it was a cabinet document and wasn't meant for publication so there is no apparent reason to believe that it was intended to mislead anybody.
But, if you don't want to believe anything from the Brits, you could take a lot at what Danny Morrison has to say on the subject of electoral fraud in NI;
"Long before Sinn Fein stood for elections in the North electoral malpractice was common - 'Vote Early, Vote Often', being the legendary catchphrase of campaigners who correctly assumed 'the other side' was equally engaged in impersonation."

Surely the shinners wouldn't ask you and I to believe that Danny was telling porkies?
http://www.dannymorrison.com/wp-content/dannymorrisonarchive/018.htm

I never thought that John Hume and David Trimble could ever agree on anything but I was wrong.

"A bitter row broke out in Northern Ireland yesterday as Unionists and the SDLP accused Sinn Fein of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation, A bitter row broke out in Northern Ireland yesterday as Unionists and the SDLP accused Sinn Fein of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation, and republicans hit back with counter-accusations of malpractice, which they said benefited Unionists.

(This was just after the 2001 election.)
Like Danny Morrison says, the whole lot were "voting early and often."

You can read the details here;
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/06/uk.election200112

If everything was above board up there, why did the Brits feel the need to introduce Electoral Fraud (Northern Ireland) Act 2002?
What do you think?

This is 2013. Any actual, you know...proof...for your allegation that SF currently "fiddle the system"?

I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you....This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.

For the record, brit documents from 30 years ago (which contained zero proof), and claims made 12 years ago by parties viciously opposed to SF, with no evidence to support the claims, do not count as proof of electoral fraud taking place to this day, as you are alleging).

And also for the record, the guardian article you linked to did not contain any details, never mind "all the details". All it contained were (needless to say, unsubstantiated) allegations of electoral fraud and was written before the election in question even took place. So again, if you would like to prove SF currently engage in electoral fraud, you will need to do better than this to substantiate your claim.

As for your Danny Morrison claims, it seems you were being more than a little misleading. What Danny said, was that "vote early, vote often" was the practice "long before Sinn Féin stood for elections". He goes on to describe allegations that the SF's 2001 election vote was down to impersonation and multiple registration as a "myth" and that Joe Hendron of the SDLP was the only one to be charged (and found guilty) of breaking the rules.

Nally, this is definitely the last time I'm going to indulge you. I know I already said this to Rossfan but since you take a statement like this:  "But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs" to mean I was speaking about the present, I'll make one more allowance.

For the record, this was a cabinet document, meant to be seen by Maggie and her ministers and then archived. Therefore, it couldn't have propaganda value of any sort and would remain archived for at least 20 years.
Why do you think that the cabinet should need actual case histories to prove anything?
They were getting a briefing prepared by their intelligence agencies and unless you feel their own agents were deliberately misleading trhe British GOvernment, this report was presented to them in good faith.

As for what I had to say about Danny Morrison, it's ironic that you should claim I was "more than a little misleading." A bit of double standards here I'm afraid.

I take it for granted that anyone reading this knows that Danny Morrison was an IRA/Sinn Fein apologist. I provided a link to the article I was referring to so readers could read it and draw their own conclusions.
The entire text was there to be seen.
What Danny said was ""Long before Sinn Fein stood for elections in the North electoral malpractice was common - 'Vote Early, Vote Often', being the legendary catchphrase of campaigners who correctly assumed 'the other side' was equally engaged in impersonation."
He didn't add that this malpractice stopped when SF arrived on the scene or that SF didn't engage in this practice either.
I take from the above that all other parties at least continued this malpractice from this point onwards if Danny is to be believed. Otherwise why would he could to the trouble to state an obvious fact would have been out of context?

The point of the exercise was to rubbish claims that SF's 2001 election vote was down to impersonation and multiple registration. I believe you are asking your readers to agree with Danny that this is a "myth."

Yet you are asking us to accept that counter claims by John Hume and David Trimble can be put down to "claims made 12 years ago by parties viciously opposed to SF..."  With or without substantiation, I'd need a little bit more before I could agree with you.
The Brits introduced the Electoral Fraud) Act of 2002 in response to the general public's lack of confidence in the electoral system. One may say it was a move designed to damage Sinn Fein alone but that "one" isn't me.

Would you accept what the present Lord Mayor of Belfast, Mairtin O Muillereoir, has to say about Sinn Fein's involvement  in vote rigging?
(At least I think he's still there.)
http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/01/17/in-passing-mairtin-o-muilleoir-admits-voter-fraud/

Under the heading, "In passing: Máirtín Ó Muilleoir confirms voter fraud," you'll find this statement:
"I know a guy (to whom I remain very close) who voted 13 timesin the 1983 election when Gerry Adams took the West Belfast seat from Gerry Fitt, one of the most important milestones passed in this revolution. Wish I was that guy on Sunday week at the Sinn Féin special ard fheis."

TBH, it's hard to make sense of the whole article because Martin has about the same level of competence in the English as lawnseed, but he did post it and he hasn't objected (ASAIK) to the wording of the title.
Now, with regard to what you chose to say about my advice to treublue that SF should stick to constitutional politics and keep the gun out of the picture or something like that, once again, you quoting me out of context.
Lawnseed had put up a post that could be taken to mean that SF would sell their on mothers to get their hands on power/money.
Since I'm inclined to believe that and, as others posters were poking fun at him, I decided to join in.
I got a response from trueblue demanding that I answer lawnseed's question.
Since I wasn't altogether sure that lawnseed uses the English language in his efforts to communicate with us, I couldn't answer a question I couldn't understand.
Trueblue, marginally more clued in than poor lawnseed, came back to demand that I explain why people down were so slow to accept SF's claims that it had truly forsaken violence and was now a genuine party. (Okay, those are my words, not his but I think I just about got his meaning.)
After all, he said, FF and FG had began life the same way as SF, so why do we accept that they are constitutional arties while SF are still distrusted so much.
(My words again but that's the best I can make of trueblue-speak.)
So I answered his question to the best of my ability and he replied:
"I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

I think I gave him a very detailed list of reasons for this and I emphasised that Sinn Fein would have to keep the gun out of politics and stay away for vote-rigging for a much longer time than they claim to have done.
It's now 90 years on from the Civil War and old animosities are still there.
Down here, people still remember the murder of Jerry McCabe and the Provo/Sinn Fein initial denial of involvement. This happened in '96, two years after they declared a ceasefire.
The Irish authorities are satisfied that the motive behind the robbery was to build up another arsenal in order to re-start the conflict.
The Canary Wharf bombing took place in '96.
And you wonder why people down here are so slow to accept your bona fides!
If the above isn't enough to explain this level of continuing distrust, here's yet another reason for it.
Remember this happened in 2003, years after your lot swore they'd be good boys and girls from now on and would never, ever go near them nasty gums and the likes again.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ira-tax-scam-helps-fund-sinn-fein-26237617.html

Friday 16 August 2013
IRA tax scam helps fund Sinn Fein

A TAX scam operated by IRA figures earned millions ofeuro and money from the fraud went to Sinn Fein's electoral funds, say gardai.
The tax exemption certificate fraud, rooted in the construction industry, was uncovered by the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation earlier this year. The bureau raided more than 20 houses and offices in September and on Thursday and Friday raided houses in Finglas, Meath and Louth and seized thousands of documents relating to the scam.
One of the figures centrally involved is a senior republican. A long-standing member of the IRA, he is regarded as a key backroom figure in Sinn Fein.
As a result of the involvement of the IRA - which is now dormant with almost all republican activity directed towards Sinn Fein's electoral advance - the fraud detectives were accompanied by members of the Special Branch on Friday's raids. One man was arrested by the branch officers after they found two stun guns in his house.
If you're still not fully convinced, you can follow this link and see what you find there.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-fein-chiefs-aware-ceasefire-was-to-be-shattered-26009541.html
Here's the heading and the opening paragraph and after that, you're on your own.

Sinn Fein chiefs aware ceasefire was to be shattered
LEADING members of Sinn Fein were aware in advance that the IRA intended to call off its 1994 ceasefire which was shattered by a massive bomb at Canary Wharf in London's docklands in February 1996.

Throughout this bizarre exchange, I have provided reference sources to corroborate what I had to say and I have given detailed reasons for any point I wanted to make.
ON the other hands, you have relied on snide comments and sarcastic one- liners to make you case.
While you want proof in forensic detail for every thing I say, you have no intention to check anything as you can't be bothered to go to the trouble of doing a google search.
Here's my last offer:
If you don't want to use your iPhone, to check anything out, you can send me a list of search terms you wish to use. I will then do the searching for you and post the url of every first page SERPs page that comes up.
I have asked you to find an article from any form of media, including An Phoblacht or any other Shinner source to give Wee Marty's adventures down here any sort of credit/praise or whatever.
Now either put up or shut up.

To repeat your quote...

I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you....This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.

...and you somehow think...

I have provided reference sources to corroborate what I had to say

You alleged that SF are currently involved in electoral fraud. I have repeatedly asked you to provide evidence to this and so far all have done is point to a thirty year old brit government document (which, aside from being of no use to proving anything back then, is even less useful to prove you allegations of present day electoral fraud), an article from Danny Morrison where he describes the "vote early, vote often" concept as being around long before SF's time, and makes it abundantly clear that he regarded the idea of SF being involved in electoral fraud as "a myth". Again, how does this prove modern day electoral fraud by SF?), and now your latest effort is to show that Mairtin O'Muilleoir once knew a man who said he voted 13 times, also thirty years ago (once again, how does this prove that SF are currently engaged in electoral fraud?

[muppet]

The only person I ever heard boast of dodgy behaviour at election time was a FGer about 20 years ago.

[Syferus]

The Fine Gael thread has turned into a real kick in the Shinns.

true. the slightest implication that sinn fein would hold the balance of power after the next election has scattered the pigeons. with reference to mary o rourke, mary didn't say "coalition" for nothing what she was doing was throwing out the bait for a reaction. better to hold onto power and swallow a little pride than to see the end of dynasty politics. watch closely as ff/fg circle the wagons roping in the lucindas and the eamon o cuivs respectively as and election approaches.

AND WATCH THEM BOTH LAY OFF EACH OTHER AND ATTACK SINN FEIN INSTEAD..

And rightly so. It's very easy to collapse a good few SF TDs and hover up a few seats.

[Lar Naparka]

Now who should I choose to believe: A confidential report by British Intelligence prepared for the Cabinet or you, a less than impartial observer?

I would take both with a large large dose of salt 

Let it be recorded for posterity, Ross; we have finally found something we can agree on.
But all the same, I'd give a bitten more credence to the Brits' report than I normally would. For one thing, it was a cabinet document and wasn't meant for publication so there is no apparent reason to believe that it was intended to mislead anybody.
But, if you don't want to believe anything from the Brits, you could take a lot at what Danny Morrison has to say on the subject of electoral fraud in NI;
"Long before Sinn Fein stood for elections in the North electoral malpractice was common - 'Vote Early, Vote Often', being the legendary catchphrase of campaigners who correctly assumed 'the other side' was equally engaged in impersonation."

Surely the shinners wouldn't ask you and I to believe that Danny was telling porkies?
http://www.dannymorrison.com/wp-content/dannymorrisonarchive/018.htm

I never thought that John Hume and David Trimble could ever agree on anything but I was wrong.

"A bitter row broke out in Northern Ireland yesterday as Unionists and the SDLP accused Sinn Fein of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation, A bitter row broke out in Northern Ireland yesterday as Unionists and the SDLP accused Sinn Fein of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation, and republicans hit back with counter-accusations of malpractice, which they said benefited Unionists.

(This was just after the 2001 election.)
Like Danny Morrison says, the whole lot were "voting early and often."

You can read the details here;
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/06/uk.election200112

If everything was above board up there, why did the Brits feel the need to introduce Electoral Fraud (Northern Ireland) Act 2002?
What do you think?

This is 2013. Any actual, you know...proof...for your allegation that SF currently "fiddle the system"?

I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you....This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.

For the record, brit documents from 30 years ago (which contained zero proof), and claims made 12 years ago by parties viciously opposed to SF, with no evidence to support the claims, do not count as proof of electoral fraud taking place to this day, as you are alleging).

And also for the record, the guardian article you linked to did not contain any details, never mind "all the details". All it contained were (needless to say, unsubstantiated) allegations of electoral fraud and was written before the election in question even took place. So again, if you would like to prove SF currently engage in electoral fraud, you will need to do better than this to substantiate your claim.

As for your Danny Morrison claims, it seems you were being more than a little misleading. What Danny said, was that "vote early, vote often" was the practice "long before Sinn Féin stood for elections". He goes on to describe allegations that the SF's 2001 election vote was down to impersonation and multiple registration as a "myth" and that Joe Hendron of the SDLP was the only one to be charged (and found guilty) of breaking the rules.

Nally, this is definitely the last time I'm going to indulge you. I know I already said this to Rossfan but since you take a statement like this:  "But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs" to mean I was speaking about the present, I'll make one more allowance.

For the record, this was a cabinet document, meant to be seen by Maggie and her ministers and then archived. Therefore, it couldn't have propaganda value of any sort and would remain archived for at least 20 years.
Why do you think that the cabinet should need actual case histories to prove anything?
They were getting a briefing prepared by their intelligence agencies and unless you feel their own agents were deliberately misleading trhe British GOvernment, this report was presented to them in good faith.

As for what I had to say about Danny Morrison, it's ironic that you should claim I was "more than a little misleading." A bit of double standards here I'm afraid.

I take it for granted that anyone reading this knows that Danny Morrison was an IRA/Sinn Fein apologist. I provided a link to the article I was referring to so readers could read it and draw their own conclusions.
The entire text was there to be seen.
What Danny said was ""Long before Sinn Fein stood for elections in the North electoral malpractice was common - 'Vote Early, Vote Often', being the legendary catchphrase of campaigners who correctly assumed 'the other side' was equally engaged in impersonation."
He didn't add that this malpractice stopped when SF arrived on the scene or that SF didn't engage in this practice either.
I take from the above that all other parties at least continued this malpractice from this point onwards if Danny is to be believed. Otherwise why would he could to the trouble to state an obvious fact would have been out of context?

The point of the exercise was to rubbish claims that SF's 2001 election vote was down to impersonation and multiple registration. I believe you are asking your readers to agree with Danny that this is a "myth."

Yet you are asking us to accept that counter claims by John Hume and David Trimble can be put down to "claims made 12 years ago by parties viciously opposed to SF..."  With or without substantiation, I'd need a little bit more before I could agree with you.
The Brits introduced the Electoral Fraud) Act of 2002 in response to the general public's lack of confidence in the electoral system. One may say it was a move designed to damage Sinn Fein alone but that "one" isn't me.

Would you accept what the present Lord Mayor of Belfast, Mairtin O Muillereoir, has to say about Sinn Fein's involvement  in vote rigging?
(At least I think he's still there.)
http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/01/17/in-passing-mairtin-o-muilleoir-admits-voter-fraud/

Under the heading, "In passing: Máirtín Ó Muilleoir confirms voter fraud," you'll find this statement:
"I know a guy (to whom I remain very close) who voted 13 timesin the 1983 election when Gerry Adams took the West Belfast seat from Gerry Fitt, one of the most important milestones passed in this revolution. Wish I was that guy on Sunday week at the Sinn Féin special ard fheis."

TBH, it's hard to make sense of the whole article because Martin has about the same level of competence in the English as lawnseed, but he did post it and he hasn't objected (ASAIK) to the wording of the title.
Now, with regard to what you chose to say about my advice to treublue that SF should stick to constitutional politics and keep the gun out of the picture or something like that, once again, you quoting me out of context.
Lawnseed had put up a post that could be taken to mean that SF would sell their on mothers to get their hands on power/money.
Since I'm inclined to believe that and, as others posters were poking fun at him, I decided to join in.
I got a response from trueblue demanding that I answer lawnseed's question.
Since I wasn't altogether sure that lawnseed uses the English language in his efforts to communicate with us, I couldn't answer a question I couldn't understand.
Trueblue, marginally more clued in than poor lawnseed, came back to demand that I explain why people down were so slow to accept SF's claims that it had truly forsaken violence and was now a genuine party. (Okay, those are my words, not his but I think I just about got his meaning.)
After all, he said, FF and FG had began life the same way as SF, so why do we accept that they are constitutional arties while SF are still distrusted so much.
(My words again but that's the best I can make of trueblue-speak.)
So I answered his question to the best of my ability and he replied:
"I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

I think I gave him a very detailed list of reasons for this and I emphasised that Sinn Fein would have to keep the gun out of politics and stay away for vote-rigging for a much longer time than they claim to have done.
It's now 90 years on from the Civil War and old animosities are still there.
Down here, people still remember the murder of Jerry McCabe and the Provo/Sinn Fein initial denial of involvement. This happened in '96, two years after they declared a ceasefire.
The Irish authorities are satisfied that the motive behind the robbery was to build up another arsenal in order to re-start the conflict.
The Canary Wharf bombing took place in '96.
And you wonder why people down here are so slow to accept your bona fides!
If the above isn't enough to explain this level of continuing distrust, here's yet another reason for it.
Remember this happened in 2003, years after your lot swore they'd be good boys and girls from now on and would never, ever go near them nasty gums and the likes again.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ira-tax-scam-helps-fund-sinn-fein-26237617.html

Friday 16 August 2013
IRA tax scam helps fund Sinn Fein

A TAX scam operated by IRA figures earned millions ofeuro and money from the fraud went to Sinn Fein's electoral funds, say gardai.
The tax exemption certificate fraud, rooted in the construction industry, was uncovered by the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation earlier this year. The bureau raided more than 20 houses and offices in September and on Thursday and Friday raided houses in Finglas, Meath and Louth and seized thousands of documents relating to the scam.
One of the figures centrally involved is a senior republican. A long-standing member of the IRA, he is regarded as a key backroom figure in Sinn Fein.
As a result of the involvement of the IRA - which is now dormant with almost all republican activity directed towards Sinn Fein's electoral advance - the fraud detectives were accompanied by members of the Special Branch on Friday's raids. One man was arrested by the branch officers after they found two stun guns in his house.
If you're still not fully convinced, you can follow this link and see what you find there.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-fein-chiefs-aware-ceasefire-was-to-be-shattered-26009541.html
Here's the heading and the opening paragraph and after that, you're on your own.

Sinn Fein chiefs aware ceasefire was to be shattered
LEADING members of Sinn Fein were aware in advance that the IRA intended to call off its 1994 ceasefire which was shattered by a massive bomb at Canary Wharf in London's docklands in February 1996.

Throughout this bizarre exchange, I have provided reference sources to corroborate what I had to say and I have given detailed reasons for any point I wanted to make.
ON the other hands, you have relied on snide comments and sarcastic one- liners to make you case.
While you want proof in forensic detail for every thing I say, you have no intention to check anything as you can't be bothered to go to the trouble of doing a google search.
Here's my last offer:
If you don't want to use your iPhone, to check anything out, you can send me a list of search terms you wish to use. I will then do the searching for you and post the url of every first page SERPs page that comes up.
I have asked you to find an article from any form of media, including An Phoblacht or any other Shinner source to give Wee Marty's adventures down here any sort of credit/praise or whatever.
Now either put up or shut up.

To repeat your quote...

I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you....This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.

...and you somehow think...

I have provided reference sources to corroborate what I had to say

You alleged that SF are currently involved in electoral fraud. I have repeatedly asked you to provide evidence to this and so far all have done is point to a thirty year old brit government document (which, aside from being of no use to proving anything back then, is even less useful to prove you allegations of present day electoral fraud), an article from Danny Morrison where he describes the "vote early, vote often" concept as being around long before SF's time, and makes it abundantly clear that he regarded the idea of SF being involved in electoral fraud as "a myth". Again, how does this prove modern day electoral fraud by SF?), and now your latest effort is to show that Mairtin O'Muilleoir once knew a man who said he voted 13 times, also thirty years ago (once again, how does this prove that SF are currently engaged in electoral fraud?

Nally, a chara, youi sure are one guy won't take a hint.
I've said twice already that you either put up or shut up.
I'm no wannabe EG and I'm not going to continue page after page of facts, figures and reference links whille you have no intention to of backing up your claim that I wasn't telling the truth about Marty's campaign.
I even offered to do your research for you if you supplied me with your search terms.
Damn it, I said I'd even  accept anything from any Shinner source you care to mention and still you won't take up my offer.
You're bluffing and you know it!

Once more and with feeling,
PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!

[lawnseed]

lar narparka sure talks a lot about sinn fein on the fine gael thread. (and me)

do not feed the pigeons. it makes them nuts

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

lar narparka sure talks a lot about sinn fein on the fine gael thread. (and me)

do not feed the pigeons. it makes them nuts

Sinn Fein are cuckoo 

[lawnseed]

lar narparka sure talks a lot about sinn fein on the fine gael thread. (and me)

do not feed the pigeons. it makes them nuts

Sinn Fein are cuckoo 

and what does a cuckoo do..? it pushes they wee birdy out of its nest

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

lar narparka sure talks a lot about sinn fein on the fine gael thread. (and me)

do not feed the pigeons. it makes them nuts

Sinn Fein are cuckoo 

and what does a cuckoo do..? it pushes they wee birdy out of its nest

It's the thug of the bird world.

[Maguire01]

lar narparka sure talks a lot about sinn fein on the fine gael thread. (and me)

do not feed the pigeons. it makes them nuts

Sinn Fein are cuckoo 

and what does a cuckoo do..? it pushes they wee birdy out of its nest

Ethnic cleansing?

[Lar Naparka]

lar narparka sure talks a lot about sinn fein on the fine gael thread. (and me)

do not feed the pigeons. it makes them nuts

Arra, don't worry about what I say to you; there is no malice involved.
Same goes for trueblue. I can't always figure out what either of you is trying to say but I know you are sincere in your beliefs- even if I'm not sure what they are at times.
I thought you had a good case to make on the thread about Lidl and the hurleys affair and I hope you got some sort of explanation for their failure to promote the hurling gear in the North from the company by now.
Keep 'er lit by all means.

[Syferus]

lar narparka sure talks a lot about sinn fein on the fine gael thread. (and me)

do not feed the pigeons. it makes them nuts

Arra, don't worry about what I say to you; there is no malice involved.
Same goes for trueblue. I can't always figure out what either of you is trying to say but I know you are sincere in your beliefs- even if I'm not sure what they are at times.
I thought you had a good case to make on the thread about Lidl and the hurleys affair and I hope you got some sort of explanation for their failure to promote the hurling gear in the North from the company by now.
Keep 'er lit by all means.

Great dig.

Gerry may have taken the gun out of politics but he never said anything about the Molotovs.