gaaboard.com

Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Maguire01 on October 16, 2012, 08:14:56 PM

Title: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 16, 2012, 08:14:56 PM
Has the old thread been deleted that one as well as the Sinn Fein one?

Anyway, here's some change FG is introducing - looks to be a positive step, although there's scope for plenty more to make local government more effective.


Phil Hogan says local government reform will save €420m
Updated: 19:35, Tuesday, 16 October 2012


Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan has said plans to reform local government will save the taxpayer €420m over the next four years.

The proposals, called Putting People First, include the abolition off all 80 town councils, a 40% reduction in the number of councillors.

There will also be a cut in the number of regional authorities from ten to three.

Local authority services are to be funded through the local property tax, with strengthened audit committees.

A National Oversight and Audit Commission will scrutinise local government performance and efficiency.

Local authority managers are to be replaced by chief executives.

They will be responsible to the elected members in the same way as the chief executive of a company is to a board of directors.

The Government's document says that the role and functions of elected councils will be widened, with a greater involvement in economic development and enterprise support.

Town Councils will be replaced by new Municipal Districts, which will cover the entire county, being based on the main towns and their hinterlands.

Councillors will be elected simultaneously to the Municipal Districts and the County Council.

The document states that more power will be devolved to local level, with a substantial range of "reserved" functions at Municipal District level.

The city and county councils in Limerick and Waterford will be merged into a single authority, as will the two county councils in Tipperary.

Cork and Galway will retain city as well as county councils, while Dublin will keep its current four councils.

The measures will reduce the number of councillors from over 1,600 to 950.

The targeted voluntary redundancy scheme should see an estimated saving of €45m per year.

Minister Hogan has said that local authorities will have responsibility for the property tax and the amount that will be levied in each district.

Speaking on RTÉ's News at One, the minister said the Government remains committed to the principle that the money from the tax will be ring-fenced for use by local authorities.

He said the Revenue Commissioners will still collect the money, but local authorities will have discretion over the imposition of the new tax and the amount that will be charged.

He said international best practice suggested that local services should, as far as possible, be locally funded, and that was the rationale for the property tax.

He said the link between local tax and local service was severed by a government for electoral gain in 1977, a decision which he said led to much of the malaise in the local government system today.

Mr Hogan said that each local authority can in due course have a different level of property tax, though he said the timing of such a move would be a matter for Government.

He also confirmed that the power of councillors to overturn the decisions of planning officials will be abolished.

He said the decision had been taken in the light of evidence given to the Mahon Tribunal, regarding corruption in the planning process.

A directly elected mayor for Dublin is still a possibility, but only after voters in the capital are consulted in a plebiscite - a vote on a ballot question - to be held alongside the local elections in 2014.

Taoiseach Enda Kenny said the new local government plan was "one of the most radical, ambitious and far-reaching governance reform plans ever put forward by an Irish government".

He said councillors would have a stronger role on issues that matter to people, especially in economic development.

Mr Kenny said it would be up to local authorities to make the best of the new opportunities.

Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore said the Government was embarking on a clear path to local government reform.

He said the current system was undemocratic, unresponsive and does too little governing.

Mr Gilmore said Municipal Districts would replace the "patchy" system of Town Councils.

He said the structure would allow councillors to act at a District and a Council level.

Mr Gilmore said the new system would respond more quickly and effectively to the needs of people.

Plans criticised by some councillors

A number of councillors have expressed their concern at the abolition of town councils.

Bray Town Council Cathaoirleach Mick Glynn of Fine Gael said the reduction in the number of councillors may affect political diversity and accessibility.

Labour Councillor John Walsh, a member of Ballinasloe Town Council, said the move was a blow to local democracy.

Athlone Mayor Jim Henson said he has no confidence in the ability of Mr Hogan to introduce proper local government reform.

The Labour Councillor said what was being introduced was a European model system of representation that would bring elected representatives even further away from the people.

The Mayor of Waterford has said his city's status will be affected by the proposed changes.

Fine Gael Councillor Jim D'Arcy said Waterford will not be on a level playing field in terms of "city status" as it will not have the same resources as the likes of Cork or Galway and will be at a disadvantage.

He also said it is going to cost money in the short term and asked who is going to pay for the changes.

Fianna Fáil's Barry Cowen dubbed the proposals a wasted opportunity from a Government that had promised real reform, while Sinn Féin's Brian Stanley said the party would be studying the proposals.


http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1016/phil-hogan-local-government-cabinet-politics.html
Title: Re: Where's the Fine Gael thread?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 16, 2012, 10:38:59 PM
Sounds very promising, but I will hold my breath. This is Ireland afterall and good ideas and political will are not always best bedfellows.
Title: Re: Where's the Fine Gael thread?
Post by: seafoid on October 17, 2012, 01:11:39 PM
This was all instigated by the troika. There is no way FG and Lab would have done this without them.
Title: Re: Where's the Fine Gael thread?
Post by: Maguire01 on October 17, 2012, 07:22:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 17, 2012, 01:11:39 PM
This was all instigated by the troika. There is no way FG and Lab would have done this without them.
Maybe not, but if you can't give them the credit for positive moves instigated by the Troika, then you can't blame them for the negatives either.

Either way, it's a positive step.
Title: the fine gael thread...
Post by: lawnseed on October 19, 2012, 11:22:02 PM
the party of goombeen traitors who are worse the fianna fail if that was possible.. well actually it is possible theres labour the shower who'd sell their own mothers to get into government with anyone at all. actually ireland has never had a real leader since the dawning of time and if theres been one i cant think of any. they've all been a self serving pack of tramps.. full of it. will things change? not likely. it all revolves around the old addage "give a tr**p a horse and he'll ride it to the devil" the Irish people would be better off run by the queen of England shes the only leader who's actually shown us a modicum of respect. 
Title: Re: Where's the Fine Gael thread?
Post by: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 08:24:02 PM
Quote from: GAAboardmod1 on October 20, 2012, 12:39:02 AM
It pains me to get involved, quit the fighting and trying to rise one another. Bar what some of you might think we perform the mod role voluntarily, so I cannot stand seeing reported topics when this could have easily been avoided.

I've cleaned up the thread, changed the name of it and merged the other thread created, please keep all related topics of conversation to this thread.
thankyou.
now all we need is some proper adult debate ::)
Title: Re: Where's the Fine Gael thread?
Post by: Rossfan on October 22, 2012, 09:24:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 08:24:02 PM
Quote from: GAAboardmod1 on October 20, 2012, 12:39:02 AM
It pains me to get involved, quit the fighting and trying to rise one another. Bar what some of you might think we perform the mod role voluntarily, so I cannot stand seeing reported topics when this could have easily been avoided.

I've cleaned up the thread, changed the name of it and merged the other thread created, please keep all related topics of conversation to this thread.
thankyou.
now all we need is some proper adult debate ::)
Like this? -  ::)
the party of goombeen traitors who are worse the fianna fail if that was possible.. well actually it is possible theres labour the shower who'd sell their own mothers to get into government with anyone at all. actually ireland has never had a real leader since the dawning of time and if theres been one i cant think of any. they've all been a self serving pack of tramps.. full of it. will things change? not likely. it all revolves around the old addage "give a tr**p a horse and he'll ride it to the devil" the Irish people would be better off run by the queen of England shes the only leader who's actually shown us a modicum of respect.

Title: Re: Where's the Fine Gael thread?
Post by: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 10:16:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2012, 09:24:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 08:24:02 PM
Quote from: GAAboardmod1 on October 20, 2012, 12:39:02 AM
It pains me to get involved, quit the fighting and trying to rise one another. Bar what some of you might think we perform the mod role voluntarily, so I cannot stand seeing reported topics when this could have easily been avoided.

I've cleaned up the thread, changed the name of it and merged the other thread created, please keep all related topics of conversation to this thread.
thankyou.
now all we need is some proper adult debate ::)
Like this? -  ::)
the party of goombeen traitors who are worse the fianna fail if that was possible.. well actually it is possible theres labour the shower who'd sell their own mothers to get into government with anyone at all. actually ireland has never had a real leader since the dawning of time and if theres been one i cant think of any. they've all been a self serving pack of tramps.. full of it. will things change? not likely. it all revolves around the old addage "give a tr**p a horse and he'll ride it to the devil" the Irish people would be better off run by the queen of England shes the only leader who's actually shown us a modicum of respect.
actually rossie that post was from a protest thread now deleted by our moderater. i would delete it but given whats going on in our country over the past 4 years i think it sums up the leadership or lack of leadership on offer to the people of this island. as regards being run by the queen of england thats indication of just how badly ireland has been governed since the civil war. unless you know of some leader/party that has done something to be celebrated. and ffs dont wheel out the good friday agreement
Title: Re: Where's the Fine Gael thread?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 22, 2012, 11:14:16 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 10:16:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2012, 09:24:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 08:24:02 PM
Quote from: GAAboardmod1 on October 20, 2012, 12:39:02 AM
It pains me to get involved, quit the fighting and trying to rise one another. Bar what some of you might think we perform the mod role voluntarily, so I cannot stand seeing reported topics when this could have easily been avoided.

I've cleaned up the thread, changed the name of it and merged the other thread created, please keep all related topics of conversation to this thread.
thankyou.
now all we need is some proper adult debate ::)
Like this? -  ::)
the party of goombeen traitors who are worse the fianna fail if that was possible.. well actually it is possible theres labour the shower who'd sell their own mothers to get into government with anyone at all. actually ireland has never had a real leader since the dawning of time and if theres been one i cant think of any. they've all been a self serving pack of tramps.. full of it. will things change? not likely. it all revolves around the old addage "give a tr**p a horse and he'll ride it to the devil" the Irish people would be better off run by the queen of England shes the only leader who's actually shown us a modicum of respect.
actually rossie that post was from a protest thread now deleted by our moderater. i would delete it but given whats going on in our country over the past 4 years i think it sums up the leadership or lack of leadership on offer to the people of this island. as regards being run by the queen of england thats indication of just how badly ireland has been governed since the civil war. unless you know of some leader/party that has done something to be celebrated. and ffs dont wheel out the good friday agreement

Surely you mean a spamming thread that you started rather than a protest thread. I am confused the British Queen has been head of the administrative region know as Northern Ireland for 60 years now, so are you using Ireland in the context of the 26 counties Lawnseed  :o Regarding the British Queen, are you advocating British rule in Ireland Lawnseed  :o  :o Again in relation to your view on the British Queen are you abandoning Repulican values and advocating Royalist values  :o  :o  :o and at that Absolute Monarachy  :o  :o  :o  :o

I'll take Republican Nationalist Fine Gael if this is what Sinn Féin represents, British Royalist Unionist Partitionist values  ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 11:20:37 PM
i refer the honourable member to the reply i gave some moments ago..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 22, 2012, 11:30:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 11:20:37 PM
i refer the "honourable member" to the reply i gave some moments ago..

Sounds like British parliamentary speak to me  ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 11:46:04 PM
that leader your proud of.. ? any ideas..? de valera? surely not kissy kissy boy the gimp
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 22, 2012, 11:57:41 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 11:46:04 PM
that leader your proud of.. ? any ideas..? de valera? surely not kissy kissy boy the gimp

Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 08:24:02 PM
thankyou.
now all we need is some proper adult debate ::)

;) That was too easy.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on October 23, 2012, 08:32:59 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 22, 2012, 11:57:41 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 11:46:04 PM
that leader your proud of.. ? any ideas..? de valera? surely not kissy kissy boy the gimp

Quote from: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 08:24:02 PM
thankyou.
now all we need is some proper adult debate ::)

;) That was too easy.
yup and you knew who i was talking about. i see he's busy french kissing now.. which is an improvement on sarkozy slapping the head off him like benny hill
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on October 27, 2012, 05:45:32 PM
WANTED.
one site for kids hospital, needs to have good parking and access to good road network. bareface preference given to constituencies of fine gael tds or ministers.

its not urgent the odd child might die or have to be shipped out for treatment but its in the pipeline since 2007.

contractors seeking work should include kickbacks in all quotes. those not on first name terms with fine gael ministers/tds need not apply.

interviews to be held at a constituency office or golf club soon enough
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 27, 2012, 05:52:47 PM
Quotebareface preference given to constituencies of fine gael tds or ministers.

Do Fine Gael not have TDs in every constituency where you might put such a hospital?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 27, 2012, 08:40:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2012, 05:52:47 PM
Quotebareface preference given to constituencies of fine gael tds or ministers.

Do Fine Gael not have TDs in every constituency where you might put such a hospital?
Let's not have facts getting in the way of a good rant!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 27, 2012, 09:28:23 PM
REDC 27/10/12: FG 34 (+2) Lab 13 (-1) FF 19 (+1) SF 17 (-1) Inds 17 (-1)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on November 09, 2012, 08:21:11 PM
fine gael/labour caught rigging referendum. does this mean lisbon could come under scrutiny and nice?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 09, 2012, 08:30:53 PM
Did any of Frank Feighan's party colleagues agree with him and wear the poppy?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on November 21, 2012, 06:39:08 PM
cluts kenny trying to embarrass the indian man whose wife died at the hands of the hse that his government has run into the ground it just gets worse. yer man should ask to meet kenny and give him a good thump in the mouth and a couple of head butts >:(
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 21, 2012, 08:04:40 PM
Quoteyer man should ask to meet kenny and give him a good thump in the mouth and a couple of head butts

Is he a Shinner?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on November 21, 2012, 09:20:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2012, 08:04:40 PM
Quoteyer man should ask to meet kenny and give him a good thump in the mouth and a couple of head butts

Is he a Shinner?
no hes a man mourning the loss of his wife and kid whos being pushed around by the embarrassing arshole leading the this country
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lecale2 on November 21, 2012, 09:49:25 PM
I was just watching TG4 there about news stories from 1991.

They showed a sketch from the Fine Gael Ard Feis where this man dressed up as a cleaner woman and called himself "Twink" (no homophobic comments at the back!) to slag off Feel And Fall.

God it was embarrassing. Even John Bruton was embarrassed. Thank God they have moved on.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 29, 2012, 10:41:26 PM
I note from the Irish Times MRBI IPSOS survey this week that the proportion of Fine Gael voters in favour of a United Ireland exceeds the proprotion of Sinn Féin voters in the 26 counties in favour of same. It also exceeds the percentage of NI Catholics in favour.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on November 30, 2012, 06:23:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 29, 2012, 10:41:26 PM
I note from the Irish Times MRBI IPSOS survey this week that the proportion of Fine Gael voters in favour of a United Ireland exceeds the proprotion of Sinn Féin voters in the 26 counties in favour of same. It also exceeds the percentage of NI Catholics in favour.
i think fine gael have more voters in total arma..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on November 30, 2012, 06:39:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 30, 2012, 06:23:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 29, 2012, 10:41:26 PM
I note from the Irish Times MRBI IPSOS survey this week that the proportion of Fine Gael voters in favour of a United Ireland exceeds the proprotion of Sinn Féin voters in the 26 counties in favour of same. It also exceeds the percentage of NI Catholics in favour.
i think fine gael have more voters in total arma..

Hence the use of the word proportion
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on November 30, 2012, 06:47:32 PM
That's what I love about pigeon holes. You can find anything besides pigeons in them.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on December 01, 2012, 12:55:49 PM
thats the peace process for you. young people nowadays are pathetic shots even at close range. couldnt even egg enda at less than thirty feet. in my day even girls could hit a bird at 50m.. youth is wasted on young people
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on December 05, 2012, 11:22:47 PM
i'd say this budget has finished the labour party completely.  fine gael and their sister party fianna fail in coalition next time round i'd say.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 05, 2012, 11:50:28 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 05, 2012, 11:22:47 PM
i'd say this budget has finished the labour party completely.  fine gael and their sister party fianna fail in coalition next time round i'd say.

I don't want FF ever again and I don't want the same government re-elected, either party for that matter. We have learned what long periods in power do to a country.

However WTF are we going to put in instead of all of the above?

We could end up with no party with over 20% of the vote and a huge raft of lunatic independents.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on December 05, 2012, 11:58:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 05, 2012, 11:50:28 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 05, 2012, 11:22:47 PM
i'd say this budget has finished the labour party completely.  fine gael and their sister party fianna fail in coalition next time round i'd say.

I don't want FF ever again and I don't want the same government re-elected, either party for that matter. We have learned what long periods in power do to a country.

However WTF are we going to put in instead of all of the above?

We could end up with no party with over 20% of the vote and a huge raft of lunatic independents.
yep a huge raft of independants is what you already have! all though they are in parties all they are interested in is self preservation they sell their own mothers to remain in politics. what a complete shower of gutless fukers
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Declan on December 06, 2012, 11:51:17 AM
QuoteI've been thinking a dictatorship would be the best way to go,

We have that now - It's called the troika ( and sssssssh don't say it too loudly but the Germans as well)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on December 06, 2012, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 06, 2012, 12:02:08 AM
ben dunne, christy moore, brendan gleesan, mickey harte and jimmy mcguiness. put the rest up against a wall

Here's Christy's take on things as they stand:

"Theres no doubt they have us where they want us.... we seem to have become a nation of docile, obedient shit-takers....with a few exceptions the same galoots are in the driving seat, the banking elite have become, if anything, even more arrogant, the PAYE workers,the poor, the elderly, the infirm, the special needs, these are the ones paying for the sins of the greedy...for the laissez faire attitude of Bertie Ahern and his Government,the Ray (Dublin Bay) Burkes,the Pee Flynns and Ray McSharry's and their team of lickers, the Brian Cowans, Mary Hanaffins, Mary Coughlans, Mary Harneys most of them, and many others, gone out to (the very long) grass with awesome pensions .... the Johnny Ronans,Bernard McNamara's,Tom McFeeleys, and their numerous counterparts are still lingering at the trough.The nameless Banker Tycoons who fed these monsters endless millions to chase sick fantasies, to fuel helicopters and Maybachs, champagne swilling lifestyles, endless acquisitive ego-boosting and criminal behaviours... all these lauded by the same Bertie who suggested that those who tried to call a halt, would be better of committing suicide...What a dirty slur that was. What sort of a ( repeatedly elected ) leader would utter such a crass and low exhortation to his electorate from the platform.... At a time when thousands of families were suffering the pain of such loss and deprivation...
They seem to have us where they want us alright...supine on the couches of the nation, hypnotised by Football, X Factor and Downton Abbey. We are are back again at the same spot...countless thousands pay the price.....Savita Hallappanavar and her family also pay the price for our silence....."
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on December 06, 2012, 01:28:58 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 05, 2012, 11:22:47 PM
i'd say this budget has finished the labour party completely.  fine gael and their sister party fianna fail in coalition next time round i'd say.
As long as Labour leave the Croke Park agreement in place they'll be fine. They get more votes from Public Sector workers than the genuinely poor and it shows.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 06, 2012, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 06, 2012, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 06, 2012, 12:02:08 AM
ben dunne, christy moore, brendan gleesan, mickey harte and jimmy mcguiness. put the rest up against a wall

Here's Christy's take on things as they stand:

"Theres no doubt they have us where they want us.... we seem to have become a nation of docile, obedient shit-takers....with a few exceptions the same galoots are in the driving seat, the banking elite have become, if anything, even more arrogant, the PAYE workers,the poor, the elderly, the infirm, the special needs, these are the ones paying for the sins of the greedy...for the laissez faire attitude of Bertie Ahern and his Government,the Ray (Dublin Bay) Burkes,the Pee Flynns and Ray McSharry's and their team of lickers, the Brian Cowans, Mary Hanaffins, Mary Coughlans, Mary Harneys most of them, and many others, gone out to (the very long) grass with awesome pensions .... the Johnny Ronans,Bernard McNamara's,Tom McFeeleys, and their numerous counterparts are still lingering at the trough.The nameless Banker Tycoons who fed these monsters endless millions to chase sick fantasies, to fuel helicopters and Maybachs, champagne swilling lifestyles, endless acquisitive ego-boosting and criminal behaviours... all these lauded by the same Bertie who suggested that those who tried to call a halt, would be better of committing suicide...What a dirty slur that was. What sort of a ( repeatedly elected ) leader would utter such a crass and low exhortation to his electorate from the platform.... At a time when thousands of families were suffering the pain of such loss and deprivation...
They seem to have us where they want us alright...supine on the couches of the nation, hypnotised by Football, X Factor and Downton Abbey. We are are back again at the same spot...countless thousands pay the price.....Savita Hallappanavar and her family also pay the price for our silence....."

And I presume this Mr Moore doesn't charge a fortune to get in to his concerts? ::)
And what it has to do with Savita I don't know.
I really get a pain every time some bloody well cossetted singer/musician ( Tax exile Bono e.g) starts berating the well off and alleging to be speaking up for the poor and downtrodden etc.
Most of the poor and downtrodden can't afford the ticket prices to see those hypocrites.
Christy also is supportinf a campaign to stop any exploration for oil off the coast of the afluent southern suburbs of Dublin  :-\
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on December 06, 2012, 02:12:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 06, 2012, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 06, 2012, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 06, 2012, 12:02:08 AM
ben dunne, christy moore, brendan gleesan, mickey harte and jimmy mcguiness. put the rest up against a wall

Here's Christy's take on things as they stand:

"Theres no doubt they have us where they want us.... we seem to have become a nation of docile, obedient shit-takers....with a few exceptions the same galoots are in the driving seat, the banking elite have become, if anything, even more arrogant, the PAYE workers,the poor, the elderly, the infirm, the special needs, these are the ones paying for the sins of the greedy...for the laissez faire attitude of Bertie Ahern and his Government,the Ray (Dublin Bay) Burkes,the Pee Flynns and Ray McSharry's and their team of lickers, the Brian Cowans, Mary Hanaffins, Mary Coughlans, Mary Harneys most of them, and many others, gone out to (the very long) grass with awesome pensions .... the Johnny Ronans,Bernard McNamara's,Tom McFeeleys, and their numerous counterparts are still lingering at the trough.The nameless Banker Tycoons who fed these monsters endless millions to chase sick fantasies, to fuel helicopters and Maybachs, champagne swilling lifestyles, endless acquisitive ego-boosting and criminal behaviours... all these lauded by the same Bertie who suggested that those who tried to call a halt, would be better of committing suicide...What a dirty slur that was. What sort of a ( repeatedly elected ) leader would utter such a crass and low exhortation to his electorate from the platform.... At a time when thousands of families were suffering the pain of such loss and deprivation...
They seem to have us where they want us alright...supine on the couches of the nation, hypnotised by Football, X Factor and Downton Abbey. We are are back again at the same spot...countless thousands pay the price.....Savita Hallappanavar and her family also pay the price for our silence....."

And I presume this Mr Moore doesn't charge a fortune to get in to his concerts? ::)
And what it has to do with Savita I don't know.
I really get a pain every time some bloody well cossetted singer/musician ( Tax exile Bono e.g) starts berating the well off and alleging to be speaking up for the poor and downtrodden etc.
Most of the poor and downtrodden can't afford the ticket prices to see those hypocrites.
Christy also is supportinf a campaign to stop any exploration for oil off the coast of the afluent southern suburbs of Dublin  :-\

Hard to beat the good aul fashioned Irish begrudgery  ::)

So because Christy Moore is a successful musician he shouldn't be permitted to voice an opinion on the state of Ireland or the people who govern it? Or can he only do so if he doesn't charge people to come to his concerts? He doesn't dodge his taxes like bono and has done more free concerts for countless charities and causes than any other Irish artist that I can think of over the decades.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 06, 2012, 02:39:07 PM
His opinion is no more important than yours or mine so why the need to quote his viewpoint?
Let him join Gaaboard if he wants his opinions here .
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on December 06, 2012, 03:18:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 06, 2012, 02:39:07 PM
His opinion is no more important than yours or mine so why the need to quote his viewpoint?
Let him join Gaaboard if he wants his opinions here .

Quote where I said his opinion is important. If anything, you're the one making a veiled (negative) judgement on the importance of his opinion based on nothing more than him being successful at what he does. I posted it because it's often interesting to hear what certain people in the public eye think about things and because I happen to believe that he hits the nail on the head.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 06, 2012, 04:06:35 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 06, 2012, 02:12:18 PM
So because Christy Moore is a successful musician he shouldn't be permitted to voice an opinion on the state of Ireland or the people who govern it?
And could you Mr Pedantic please point out where I said that?  :P
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 06, 2012, 04:18:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 06, 2012, 04:06:35 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 06, 2012, 02:12:18 PM
So because Christy Moore is a successful musician he shouldn't be permitted to voice an opinion on the state of Ireland or the people who govern it?
And could you Mr Pedantic please point out where I said that?  :P

Well if Christy running the country is like Christy in concert he will introduce prohibition never mind a €uro on wine, same as when he plays in concert and has the bar closed to the paying customers.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on December 06, 2012, 04:29:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 06, 2012, 04:06:35 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 06, 2012, 02:12:18 PM
So because Christy Moore is a successful musician he shouldn't be permitted to voice an opinion on the state of Ireland or the people who govern it?
And could you Mr Pedantic please point out where I said that?  :P

Right after you provide your quote!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 06, 2012, 04:45:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 06, 2012, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 06, 2012, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 06, 2012, 12:02:08 AM
ben dunne, christy moore, brendan gleesan, mickey harte and jimmy mcguiness. put the rest up against a wall

Here's Christy's take on things as they stand:

"Theres no doubt they have us where they want us.... we seem to have become a nation of docile, obedient shit-takers....with a few exceptions the same galoots are in the driving seat, the banking elite have become, if anything, even more arrogant, the PAYE workers,the poor, the elderly, the infirm, the special needs, these are the ones paying for the sins of the greedy...for the laissez faire attitude of Bertie Ahern and his Government,the Ray (Dublin Bay) Burkes,the Pee Flynns and Ray McSharry's and their team of lickers, the Brian Cowans, Mary Hanaffins, Mary Coughlans, Mary Harneys most of them, and many others, gone out to (the very long) grass with awesome pensions .... the Johnny Ronans,Bernard McNamara's,Tom McFeeleys, and their numerous counterparts are still lingering at the trough.The nameless Banker Tycoons who fed these monsters endless millions to chase sick fantasies, to fuel helicopters and Maybachs, champagne swilling lifestyles, endless acquisitive ego-boosting and criminal behaviours... all these lauded by the same Bertie who suggested that those who tried to call a halt, would be better of committing suicide...What a dirty slur that was. What sort of a ( repeatedly elected ) leader would utter such a crass and low exhortation to his electorate from the platform.... At a time when thousands of families were suffering the pain of such loss and deprivation...
They seem to have us where they want us alright...supine on the couches of the nation, hypnotised by Football, X Factor and Downton Abbey. We are are back again at the same spot...countless thousands pay the price.....Savita Hallappanavar and her family also pay the price for our silence....."

And I presume this Mr Moore doesn't charge a fortune to get in to his concerts? ::)

That says he shouldn't be allowed express an opinion ?  :o????
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on December 06, 2012, 05:30:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 06, 2012, 02:39:07 PM
His opinion is no more important than yours or mine so why the need to quote his viewpoint?
Let him join Gaaboard if he wants his opinions here.

The last thing we need is Christy on here bemoaning the lack of Moorefield involvement on the Kildare panel!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 28, 2013, 08:51:49 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on October 27, 2012, 05:45:32 PM
WANTED.
one site for kids hospital, needs to have good parking and access to good road network. bareface preference given to constituencies of fine gael tds or ministers.

its not urgent the odd child might die or have to be shipped out for treatment but its in the pipeline since 2007.

contractors seeking work should include kickbacks in all quotes. those not on first name terms with fine gael ministers/tds need not apply.

interviews to be held at a constituency office or golf club soon enough

maybe the next time i say something...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 28, 2013, 08:53:49 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 27, 2012, 08:40:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2012, 05:52:47 PM
Quotebareface preference given to constituencies of fine gael tds or ministers.

Do Fine Gael not have TDs in every constituency where you might put such a hospital?
Let's not have facts getting in the way of a good rant!

just maybe... when i'm ranting..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2013, 08:57:06 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2013, 08:53:49 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 27, 2012, 08:40:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2012, 05:52:47 PM
Quotebareface preference given to constituencies of fine gael tds or ministers.

Do Fine Gael not have TDs in every constituency where you might put such a hospital?
Let's not have facts getting in the way of a good rant!

just maybe... when i'm ranting..

That constituency has 1 FG TD, 1 FF, 1 Lab, 1 PBF TD and 1 SF TD.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 28, 2013, 09:04:12 PM
minister for health caught again!! despite pre election promises from enda kenny regarding roscommon hospital being safe in fine gael hands turning out to be barefaced lies shortly after the election. even before the closer of roscommon dr reilly had already set in motion the upgrade of two hospitals in government ministers constituencies before he had even consulted the HSE. This "doctor" is a fraud and patently unfit to do this job since he sees it as a lever to prop up his buddies and himself. sliveen and gombeen and traitor!

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2013, 09:12:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2013, 09:04:12 PM
minister for health caught again!! despite pre election promises from enda kenny regarding roscommon hospital being safe in fine gael hands turning out to be barefaced lies shortly after the election. even before the closer of roscommon dr reilly had already set in motion the upgrade of two hospitals in government ministers constituencies before he had even consulted the HSE. This "doctor" is a fraud and patently unfit to do this job since he sees it as a lever to prop up his buddies and himself. sliveen and gombeen and traitor!

Your deep rooted concern for the people of Roscommon has been a consistent theme on this board.  ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 28, 2013, 09:25:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 09:12:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2013, 09:04:12 PM
minister for health caught again!! despite pre election promises from enda kenny regarding roscommon hospital being safe in fine gael hands turning out to be barefaced lies shortly after the election. even before the closer of roscommon dr reilly had already set in motion the upgrade of two hospitals in government ministers constituencies before he had even consulted the HSE. This "doctor" is a fraud and patently unfit to do this job since he sees it as a lever to prop up his buddies and himself. sliveen and gombeen and traitor!

Your deep rooted concern for the people of Roscommon has been a consistent theme on this board.  ::)

its merely an example of fine gael lies.. i could highlight many other examples. when confronted with these lies pat rabbitt said live on tv "sure thats what you do during an election campaign- you tell lies" why? why tell lies when fianna fail had already put the election on a plate? these traitors should be held to account
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2013, 09:30:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2013, 09:25:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 09:12:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2013, 09:04:12 PM
minister for health caught again!! despite pre election promises from enda kenny regarding roscommon hospital being safe in fine gael hands turning out to be barefaced lies shortly after the election. even before the closer of roscommon dr reilly had already set in motion the upgrade of two hospitals in government ministers constituencies before he had even consulted the HSE. This "doctor" is a fraud and patently unfit to do this job since he sees it as a lever to prop up his buddies and himself. sliveen and gombeen and traitor!

Your deep rooted concern for the people of Roscommon has been a consistent theme on this board.  ::)

its merely an example of fine gael lies.. i could highlight many other examples. when confronted with these lies pat rabbitt said live on tv "sure thats what you do during an election campaign- you tell lies" why? why tell lies when fianna fail had already put the election on a plate? these traitors should be held to account

I would love if all wrongdoers were held to account, FF, FG, Labour and SF.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 28, 2013, 09:50:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 09:12:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2013, 09:04:12 PM
minister for health caught again!! despite pre election promises from enda kenny regarding roscommon hospital being safe in fine gael hands turning out to be barefaced lies shortly after the election. even before the closer of roscommon dr reilly had already set in motion the upgrade of two hospitals in government ministers constituencies before he had even consulted the HSE. This "doctor" is a fraud and patently unfit to do this job since he sees it as a lever to prop up his buddies and himself. sliveen and gombeen and traitor!

Your deep rooted concern for the people of Roscommon has been a consistent theme on this board.  ::)
We're lucky to have such an Advocate tirelessly working on our behalf  ::)

Of course us lot in the 26 who have been at politics all our lives know exactly what an election promise is.. Pure Shite  :-*
Folks up North who have only recently embraced politics  ;) still believe in the fairy tales   :P
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 28, 2013, 10:02:10 PM
If frowning really hard got you votes, Lawnseed would be Taoiseach.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 28, 2013, 10:24:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2013, 09:50:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 09:12:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2013, 09:04:12 PM
minister for health caught again!! despite pre election promises from enda kenny regarding roscommon hospital being safe in fine gael hands turning out to be barefaced lies shortly after the election. even before the closer of roscommon dr reilly had already set in motion the upgrade of two hospitals in government ministers constituencies before he had even consulted the HSE. This "doctor" is a fraud and patently unfit to do this job since he sees it as a lever to prop up his buddies and himself. sliveen and gombeen and traitor!

Your deep rooted concern for the people of Roscommon has been a consistent theme on this board.  ::)
We're lucky to have such an Advocate tirelessly working on our behalf  ::)

Of course us lot in the 26 who have been at politics all our lives know exactly what an election promise is.. Pure Shite  :-*
Folks up North who have only recently embraced politics  ;) still believe in the fairy tales   :P

politics all our lives!!!!!!!!!!???????? look where your politicians have got you. traitors, lairs, and thieves. eamon de valera named on this board as ireland greatest political leader since partitician stole money given to him be america to help the irish people, he started a paper that was to become his propaganda sheet with the money then his family sell the paper and keep the money but retain interests in regional radio stations.. bertie ahern tax dodger.. brian cowen.. wille o dea.. "doc reilly".. the healy raes.. re-zoning scandals.. jeez i could write a book

ffs man you havent had a straight politician in nearly a century of independance

ps your lucks about to change.. theres a dungout coming
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 29, 2013, 04:00:51 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2013, 10:24:01 PM
ffs man you havent had a straight politician in nearly a century of independance

ps your lucks about to change.. theres a dungout coming

I take it all the politicians up North are totally straight?
Can I take it this "dungout" of yours will be some kind of Sinn Féin unelected dictatorship?
Will it be led by Gerry ( I was never in the IRA) Adams ?

Jazes Lawnseed but you're some almighty Craic  ;D
Please keep them coming 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 29, 2013, 10:10:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 29, 2013, 04:00:51 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2013, 10:24:01 PM
ffs man you havent had a straight politician in nearly a century of independance

ps your lucks about to change.. theres a dungout coming

I take it all the politicians up North are totally straight?
Can I take it this "dungout" of yours will be some kind of Sinn Féin unelected dictatorship?
Will it be led by Gerry ( I was never in the IRA) Adams ?

Jazes Lawnseed but you're some almighty Craic  ;D
Please keep them coming
sheep need a shepherd
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 09:25:48 PM
time for a dungout >:(  yet again health minister "doctor" james reilly has been exposed as completely useless. following unannounced visits by the HSE to several hospitals they were found to be filthy with infected patients laying all over the place spreading infection to others. whatever about mary harney she had an excuse since she herself was a dirty clart and not an actual doctor.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 30, 2013, 09:31:52 PM
Do Health Ministers actually go around micro managing every detail in Hospitals?
Maybe up North in the Toy Parliament they might have time to  :P
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 09:46:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 09:25:48 PM
time for a dungout >:(  yet again health minister "doctor" james reilly has been exposed as completely useless. following unannounced visits by the HSE to several hospitals they were found to be filthy with infected patients laying all over the place spreading infection to others. whatever about mary harney she had an excuse since she herself was a dirty clart and not an actual doctor.
That's a poor effort. You should google 'infection hospitals northern Ireland' - a long way from perfect up here. And if I'm not mistaken, a SF MLA chairs the Health Committee.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 09:53:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 09:46:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 09:25:48 PM
time for a dungout >:(  yet again health minister "doctor" james reilly has been exposed as completely useless. following unannounced visits by the HSE to several hospitals they were found to be filthy with infected patients laying all over the place spreading infection to others. whatever about mary harney she had an excuse since she herself was a dirty clart and not an actual doctor.
That's a poor effort. You should google 'infection hospitals northern Ireland' - a long way from perfect up here. And if I'm not mistaken, a SF MLA chairs the Health Committee.
sinn fein have held the health minister job? i dont think so. two wrongs dont make it right.

the buck has to stop somewhere. reilly is more than well paid to do his job and yet again he proves he cant. the guy an embarrassment. i'll bet his castle isnt stinking
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 10:13:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 09:53:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 09:46:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 09:25:48 PM
time for a dungout >:(  yet again health minister "doctor" james reilly has been exposed as completely useless. following unannounced visits by the HSE to several hospitals they were found to be filthy with infected patients laying all over the place spreading infection to others. whatever about mary harney she had an excuse since she herself was a dirty clart and not an actual doctor.
That's a poor effort. You should google 'infection hospitals northern Ireland' - a long way from perfect up here. And if I'm not mistaken, a SF MLA chairs the Health Committee.
sinn fein have held the health minister job? i dont think so.
Bairbre de Brún - Health Minister 1999 - 2002
Sue Ramsey - Current Chair of the Health Committee
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 10:23:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 10:13:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 09:53:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 09:46:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 09:25:48 PM
time for a dungout >:(  yet again health minister "doctor" james reilly has been exposed as completely useless. following unannounced visits by the HSE to several hospitals they were found to be filthy with infected patients laying all over the place spreading infection to others. whatever about mary harney she had an excuse since she herself was a dirty clart and not an actual doctor.
That's a poor effort. You should google 'infection hospitals northern Ireland' - a long way from perfect up here. And if I'm not mistaken, a SF MLA chairs the Health Committee.
sinn fein have held the health minister job? i dont think so.
Bairbre de Brún - Health Minister 1999 - 2002
Sue Ramsey - Current Chair of the Health Committee
sue is not the minister. meanwhile reilly is sneering at the irish electorate safe in the knowledge that a big fat pension awaits
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 10:28:49 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 10:23:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 10:13:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 09:53:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 09:46:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 09:25:48 PM
time for a dungout >:(  yet again health minister "doctor" james reilly has been exposed as completely useless. following unannounced visits by the HSE to several hospitals they were found to be filthy with infected patients laying all over the place spreading infection to others. whatever about mary harney she had an excuse since she herself was a dirty clart and not an actual doctor.
That's a poor effort. You should google 'infection hospitals northern Ireland' - a long way from perfect up here. And if I'm not mistaken, a SF MLA chairs the Health Committee.
sinn fein have held the health minister job? i dont think so.
Bairbre de Brún - Health Minister 1999 - 2002
Sue Ramsey - Current Chair of the Health Committee
sue is not the minister. meanwhile reilly is sneering at the irish electorate safe in the knowledge that a big fat pension awaits
No, but it's the job of the Chair to hold the Minister / Department to account. And she'll get a pension too.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 10:33:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 10:28:49 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 10:23:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 10:13:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 09:53:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 09:46:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 09:25:48 PM
time for a dungout >:(  yet again health minister "doctor" james reilly has been exposed as completely useless. following unannounced visits by the HSE to several hospitals they were found to be filthy with infected patients laying all over the place spreading infection to others. whatever about mary harney she had an excuse since she herself was a dirty clart and not an actual doctor.
That's a poor effort. You should google 'infection hospitals northern Ireland' - a long way from perfect up here. And if I'm not mistaken, a SF MLA chairs the Health Committee.
sinn fein have held the health minister job? i dont think so.
Bairbre de Brún - Health Minister 1999 - 2002
Sue Ramsey - Current Chair of the Health Committee
sue is not the minister. meanwhile reilly is sneering at the irish electorate safe in the knowledge that a big fat pension awaits
No, but it's the job of the Chair to hold the Minister / Department to account. And she'll get a pension too.
she'll get her pension from sinn fein you mean
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 10:38:31 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 10:33:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 10:28:49 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 10:23:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 10:13:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 09:53:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 09:46:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 09:25:48 PM
time for a dungout >:(  yet again health minister "doctor" james reilly has been exposed as completely useless. following unannounced visits by the HSE to several hospitals they were found to be filthy with infected patients laying all over the place spreading infection to others. whatever about mary harney she had an excuse since she herself was a dirty clart and not an actual doctor.
That's a poor effort. You should google 'infection hospitals northern Ireland' - a long way from perfect up here. And if I'm not mistaken, a SF MLA chairs the Health Committee.
sinn fein have held the health minister job? i dont think so.
Bairbre de Brún - Health Minister 1999 - 2002
Sue Ramsey - Current Chair of the Health Committee
sue is not the minister. meanwhile reilly is sneering at the irish electorate safe in the knowledge that a big fat pension awaits
No, but it's the job of the Chair to hold the Minister / Department to account. And she'll get a pension too.
she'll get her pension from sinn fein you mean
No, she'll get it from the public purse, like all the MLAs.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 10:46:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 10:38:31 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 10:33:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 10:28:49 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 10:23:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 10:13:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 09:53:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2013, 09:46:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 30, 2013, 09:25:48 PM
time for a dungout >:(  yet again health minister "doctor" james reilly has been exposed as completely useless. following unannounced visits by the HSE to several hospitals they were found to be filthy with infected patients laying all over the place spreading infection to others. whatever about mary harney she had an excuse since she herself was a dirty clart and not an actual doctor.
That's a poor effort. You should google 'infection hospitals northern Ireland' - a long way from perfect up here. And if I'm not mistaken, a SF MLA chairs the Health Committee.
sinn fein have held the health minister job? i dont think so.
Bairbre de Brún - Health Minister 1999 - 2002
Sue Ramsey - Current Chair of the Health Committee
sue is not the minister. meanwhile reilly is sneering at the irish electorate safe in the knowledge that a big fat pension awaits
No, but it's the job of the Chair to hold the Minister / Department to account. And she'll get a pension too.
she'll get her pension from sinn fein you mean
No, she'll get it from the public purse, like all the MLAs.
wrong thread again
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:21:52 PM
the pressures on! today we had gilmore bleating like a sheep about irelands need for a deal on the bank bailout before the bill for 3.1 billion has to be paid in march. "its urgent for the country" says eamon. what he really means is that his party is going the way of the greens and the dodo bird and unless he can land a deal the government he is part of is likely to fold in the face of a labour revolt.
 
so we can conclude that no matter how much bratwurst the gimp kenny sucks the gerrys dont give a flying fuk about him and are unwilling to prop his administration up any further. with growth figures in the economy nowhere near noonans ridiculous predictions/lies and stirling losing value (our biggest export market) things are looking good for an election and an end to this charade   
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 09:25:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:21:52 PM
the pressures on! today we had gilmore bleating like a sheep about irelands need for a deal on the bank bailout before the bill for 3.1 billion has to be paid in march. "its urgent for the country" says eamon. what he really means is that his party is going the way of the greens and the dodo bird and unless he can land a deal the government he is part of is likely to fold in the face of a labour revolt.
 
so we can conclude that no matter how much bratwurst the gimp kenny sucks the gerrys dont give a flying fuk about him and are unwilling to prop his administration up any further. with growth figures in the economy nowhere near noonans ridiculous predictions/lies and stirling losing value (our biggest export market) things are looking good for an election and an end to this charade
Catch a grip - who's likely to form a government if there's an election?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 31, 2013, 09:35:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 09:25:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:21:52 PM
the pressures on! today we had gilmore bleating like a sheep about irelands need for a deal on the bank bailout before the bill for 3.1 billion has to be paid in march. "its urgent for the country" says eamon. what he really means is that his party is going the way of the greens and the dodo bird and unless he can land a deal the government he is part of is likely to fold in the face of a labour revolt.
 
so we can conclude that no matter how much bratwurst the gimp kenny sucks the gerrys dont give a flying fuk about him and are unwilling to prop his administration up any further. with growth figures in the economy nowhere near noonans ridiculous predictions/lies and stirling losing value (our biggest export market) things are looking good for an election and an end to this charade
Catch a grip - who's likely to form a government if there's an election?
FF back again?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:36:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 09:25:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:21:52 PM
the pressures on! today we had gilmore bleating like a sheep about irelands need for a deal on the bank bailout before the bill for 3.1 billion has to be paid in march. "its urgent for the country" says eamon. what he really means is that his party is going the way of the greens and the dodo bird and unless he can land a deal the government he is part of is likely to fold in the face of a labour revolt.
 
so we can conclude that no matter how much bratwurst the gimp kenny sucks the gerrys dont give a flying fuk about him and are unwilling to prop his administration up any further. with growth figures in the economy nowhere near noonans ridiculous predictions/lies and stirling losing value (our biggest export market) things are looking good for an election and an end to this charade
Catch a grip - who's likely to form a government if there's an election?
you're right, its a bit septic at the moment. dirty hospitals, dead garda,crooked gardai
dead garda and 90 stations closing at the same time! rates, horsemeat, on and on. but an end is in sight a new beginning
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 09:51:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:36:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 09:25:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:21:52 PM
the pressures on! today we had gilmore bleating like a sheep about irelands need for a deal on the bank bailout before the bill for 3.1 billion has to be paid in march. "its urgent for the country" says eamon. what he really means is that his party is going the way of the greens and the dodo bird and unless he can land a deal the government he is part of is likely to fold in the face of a labour revolt.
 
so we can conclude that no matter how much bratwurst the gimp kenny sucks the gerrys dont give a flying fuk about him and are unwilling to prop his administration up any further. with growth figures in the economy nowhere near noonans ridiculous predictions/lies and stirling losing value (our biggest export market) things are looking good for an election and an end to this charade
Catch a grip - who's likely to form a government if there's an election?
you're right, its a bit septic at the moment. dirty hospitals, dead garda,crooked gardai
dead garda and 90 stations closing at the same time! rates, horsemeat, on and on. but an end is in sight a new beginning
You never answered my question. No point in an election unless there's a better alternative.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 10:15:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 09:51:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:36:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 09:25:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:21:52 PM
the pressures on! today we had gilmore bleating like a sheep about irelands need for a deal on the bank bailout before the bill for 3.1 billion has to be paid in march. "its urgent for the country" says eamon. what he really means is that his party is going the way of the greens and the dodo bird and unless he can land a deal the government he is part of is likely to fold in the face of a labour revolt.
 
so we can conclude that no matter how much bratwurst the gimp kenny sucks the gerrys dont give a flying fuk about him and are unwilling to prop his administration up any further. with growth figures in the economy nowhere near noonans ridiculous predictions/lies and stirling losing value (our biggest export market) things are looking good for an election and an end to this charade
Catch a grip - who's likely to form a government if there's an election?
you're right, its a bit septic at the moment. dirty hospitals, dead garda,crooked gardai
dead garda and 90 stations closing at the same time! rates, horsemeat, on and on. but an end is in sight a new beginning
You never answered my question. No point in an election unless there's a better alternative.
i suppose 'fianna gael' theyre the ones with the most in common.. sweet divine.. then we'd truly see a race to the botton
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 31, 2013, 11:35:46 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 10:15:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 09:51:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:36:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 09:25:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:21:52 PM
the pressures on! today we had gilmore bleating like a sheep about irelands need for a deal on the bank bailout before the bill for 3.1 billion has to be paid in march. "its urgent for the country" says eamon. what he really means is that his party is going the way of the greens and the dodo bird and unless he can land a deal the government he is part of is likely to fold in the face of a labour revolt.
 
so we can conclude that no matter how much bratwurst the gimp kenny sucks the gerrys dont give a flying fuk about him and are unwilling to prop his administration up any further. with growth figures in the economy nowhere near noonans ridiculous predictions/lies and stirling losing value (our biggest export market) things are looking good for an election and an end to this charade
Catch a grip - who's likely to form a government if there's an election?
you're right, its a bit septic at the moment. dirty hospitals, dead garda,crooked gardai
dead garda and 90 stations closing at the same time! rates, horsemeat, on and on. but an end is in sight a new beginning
You never answered my question. No point in an election unless there's a better alternative.
i suppose 'fianna gael' theyre the ones with the most in common.. sweet divine.. then we'd truly see a race to the botton


Wind your neck in. You have no respect for the Gardai. Thankfully we have had them all these years to defend us from-your mob.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 09:16:50 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 31, 2013, 11:35:46 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 10:15:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 09:51:03 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:36:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2013, 09:25:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 31, 2013, 09:21:52 PM
the pressures on! today we had gilmore bleating like a sheep about irelands need for a deal on the bank bailout before the bill for 3.1 billion has to be paid in march. "its urgent for the country" says eamon. what he really means is that his party is going the way of the greens and the dodo bird and unless he can land a deal the government he is part of is likely to fold in the face of a labour revolt.
 
so we can conclude that no matter how much bratwurst the gimp kenny sucks the gerrys dont give a flying fuk about him and are unwilling to prop his administration up any further. with growth figures in the economy nowhere near noonans ridiculous predictions/lies and stirling losing value (our biggest export market) things are looking good for an election and an end to this charade
Catch a grip - who's likely to form a government if there's an election?
you're right, its a bit septic at the moment. dirty hospitals, dead garda,crooked gardai
dead garda and 90 stations closing at the same time! rates, horsemeat, on and on. but an end is in sight a new beginning
You never answered my question. No point in an election unless there's a better alternative.
i suppose 'fianna gael' theyre the ones with the most in common.. sweet divine.. then we'd truly see a race to the botton


Wind your neck in. You have no respect for the Gardai. Thankfully we have had them all these years to defend us from-your mob.
actually i have a few friends who are guards. theyre mostly not long in the force and started with great intentions. infact one of them while off duty foiled a bank robbery on his own and arrested BOTH of the armed culprits by himself using those rope yokes that you cue up in. hes a real man and the most honest guy you could meet. since his heroics fine gael have cut his wages 3 times introduced rates,septic tank,poll tax....etc yeah my mate is well blessed. then you have the phonecalls from his superiors nobbling his cases because the perps are friends of theirs. so now my buddy just punches his card and does as little as possible, hes out of shape and the public are the ones who are losing out because now he doesnt give a fuk
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 01:06:08 PM
hospitals fast-tracked by doc reilly cause they were in government ministers constituencies were not priorties in the hse budget. rte gained the docs via a foi.. hardly surprising.. another stroke
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 04:30:38 PM
Lawnseed, why do you think there are cutbacks? Is it for the craic?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: All of a Sludden on February 03, 2013, 09:20:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 04:30:38 PM
Lawnseed, why do you think there are cutbacks? Is it for the craic?

Cutbacks, are you sure about that.......

James Reilly, the health minister and George McNeice, former CEO of the Irish Medical Organisation (IMO) are the registered joint owners of a website company that has received €2.3m in state grants.
McNeice rerired from the IMO last December with a €9.7m pension package which was reduced from entitlements he had accrued totalling €20m.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:22:59 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 03, 2013, 09:20:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 04:30:38 PM
Lawnseed, why do you think there are cutbacks? Is it for the craic?

Cutbacks, are you sure about that.......

James Reilly, the health minister and George McNeice, former CEO of the Irish Medical Organisation (IMO) are the registered joint owners of a website company that has received €2.3m in state grants.
McNeice rerired from the IMO last December with a €9.7m pension package which was reduced from entitlements he had accrued totalling €20m.

Feel free to nail him if he has done something corrupt.

However in 2008 the state was taking in roughly €20bn less than it was spending. We still have a multi-billion euro deficit.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: All of a Sludden on February 03, 2013, 09:33:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:22:59 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 03, 2013, 09:20:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 04:30:38 PM
Lawnseed, why do you think there are cutbacks? Is it for the craic?

Cutbacks, are you sure about that.......

James Reilly, the health minister and George McNeice, former CEO of the Irish Medical Organisation (IMO) are the registered joint owners of a website company that has received €2.3m in state grants.
McNeice rerired from the IMO last December with a €9.7m pension package which was reduced from entitlements he had accrued totalling €20m.

Feel free to nail him if he has done something corrupt.

However in 2008 the state was taking in roughly €20bn less than it was spending. We still have a multi-billion euro deficit.

I hadn't thought of it as corrupt, but its very nice work if you can get it, especially in these recessionary times.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 09:40:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 04:30:38 PM
Lawnseed, why do you think there are cutbacks? Is it for the craic?
cutting the least well off in society while steadfastly refusing to lead by example by taking a cut yourself or implementing the same criteria to civil sercant earning over 100000 isnt good craic...

it wont be long now..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 03, 2013, 09:43:19 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 03, 2013, 09:40:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2013, 04:30:38 PM
Lawnseed, why do you think there are cutbacks? Is it for the craic?
cutting the least well off in society while steadfastly refusing to lead by example by taking a cut yourself or implementing the same criteria to civil sercant earning over 100000 isnt good craic...

it wont be long now..

Can you give some examples please?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 09, 2013, 02:42:23 AM
Fine Gael lose top slot to to FF

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fianna-fail-back-on-top-as-countrys-most-popular-party-29057660.html

One imagines the promissory note deal, useful although not perfect, is worth a couple of percent though.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 09, 2013, 04:01:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2013, 02:42:23 AM
Fine Gael lose top slot to to FF

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fianna-fail-back-on-top-as-countrys-most-popular-party-29057660.html

One imagines the promissory note deal, useful although not perfect, is worth a couple of percent though.

With idiots like that back home, I think I can safely say I am done with Ireland (so that will make quite a lot of the people on this board happy), it's not worth saving if people actually want FF in charge. It is a disaster for Ireland that FG did not get a clear majority in the last election, allowing Labour to lead the opposition. This would have given the Irish people a choice between FG & Labour, what is left the insanity of SF & loony left or the gombeen thieves of FF.

(Don't give a feck that FG are losing popularity, I am ashamed of the people back home that FF are gaining popularity).
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on February 09, 2013, 04:14:33 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 09, 2013, 04:01:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2013, 02:42:23 AM
Fine Gael lose top slot to to FF

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fianna-fail-back-on-top-as-countrys-most-popular-party-29057660.html

One imagines the promissory note deal, useful although not perfect, is worth a couple of percent though.

With idiots like that back home, I think I can safely say I am done with Ireland (so that will make quite a lot of the people on this board happy), it's not worth saving if people actually want FF in charge. It is a disaster for Ireland that FG did not get a clear majority in the last election, allowing Labour to lead the opposition. This would have given the Irish people a choice between FG & Labour, what is left the insanity of SF & loony left or the gombeen thieves of FF.

(Don't give a feck that FG are losing popularity, I am ashamed of the people back home that FF are gaining popularity).

The thing is they're anonymous. It's not like they've been a fierce or even effective opposition. People are just fed up of they austerity they see being brought in by the government, so they go for the default option of FF, because they still can't bring themselves to go for SF.
I'd like to think (and I hope) that this wouldn't come to pass in an election.
But if it does, it would just go to show a large proportion of people in this country are a shower of f**king idiots.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on February 10, 2013, 12:53:38 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 09, 2013, 04:14:33 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 09, 2013, 04:01:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2013, 02:42:23 AM
Fine Gael lose top slot to to FF

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fianna-fail-back-on-top-as-countrys-most-popular-party-29057660.html

One imagines the promissory note deal, useful although not perfect, is worth a couple of percent though.

With idiots like that back home, I think I can safely say I am done with Ireland (so that will make quite a lot of the people on this board happy), it's not worth saving if people actually want FF in charge. It is a disaster for Ireland that FG did not get a clear majority in the last election, allowing Labour to lead the opposition. This would have given the Irish people a choice between FG & Labour, what is left the insanity of SF & loony left or the gombeen thieves of FF.

(Don't give a feck that FG are losing popularity, I am ashamed of the people back home that FF are gaining popularity).

The thing is they're anonymous. It's not like they've been a fierce or even effective opposition. People are just fed up of they austerity they see being brought in by the government, so they go for the default option of FF, because they still can't bring themselves to go for SF.
I'd like to think (and I hope) that this wouldn't come to pass in an election.
But if it does, it would just go to show a large proportion of people in this country are a shower of f**king idiots.

bahh bahh... the next time i tell you two guys something maybe yez will believe me! the irish electorate are sheep with the memory of a goldfish. tom the devil could tie a thread round their two front teeth and lead them over a cliff. in the end they'll do what ever pat kenny and joe duffy tell them. dont be surprised if sean "brown envelope" gallagher stands and gets in aswell. fuckn unbelievable
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on February 10, 2013, 02:23:38 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 09, 2013, 04:14:33 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 09, 2013, 04:01:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2013, 02:42:23 AM
Fine Gael lose top slot to to FF

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fianna-fail-back-on-top-as-countrys-most-popular-party-29057660.html

One imagines the promissory note deal, useful although not perfect, is worth a couple of percent though.

With idiots like that back home, I think I can safely say I am done with Ireland (so that will make quite a lot of the people on this board happy), it's not worth saving if people actually want FF in charge. It is a disaster for Ireland that FG did not get a clear majority in the last election, allowing Labour to lead the opposition. This would have given the Irish people a choice between FG & Labour, what is left the insanity of SF & loony left or the gombeen thieves of FF.

(Don't give a feck that FG are losing popularity, I am ashamed of the people back home that FF are gaining popularity).

The thing is they're anonymous. It's not like they've been a fierce or even effective opposition. People are just fed up of they austerity they see being brought in by the government, so they go for the default option of FF, because they still can't bring themselves to go for SF.
I'd like to think (and I hope) that this wouldn't come to pass in an election.
But if it does, it would just go to show a large proportion of people in this country are a shower of f**king idiots.
Dead right! Unfortunately, most people seem to have very short memories and are unwilling to make their feelings known.
Bertie and Cowan and other FF leaders and senior ministers before them never bothered to hide the facts. They appointed cronies to top positions or secured preferential grants for hospitals etc. in their own constituencies or in those of their buddies.
Long Paddy Flynn comes to mind straightaway.
Enda and his pals are no different. James Reilly would give Flynn or McCreevy a good run for their money any day.
One shower of useless gobshites has been replaced by another.
When our Enda was in opposition, the house property levy was a 'vampire tax;' and now that's he's in office, we better grin and bear it.
Micheal Martin and FF are playing a very shrewd game at the moment; they know the public have short memories. So they're staying away from controversy and are quietly building up their constituency structures again.
I can't see them doing well until Martin, Willie O'Dea, O'Cuiv and any other throwbacks to the Ahern/Cowan era have retired but they will come back sooner or later because people have short memories.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on February 24, 2013, 09:34:41 PM
poor old joan burton is getting roaded out of dundalk on youtube. well done security men it was getting heated towards the end
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on February 28, 2013, 10:37:10 PM
remember when the gimp kenny was canvassing before the last election.. the election they couldn't lose.. well theres a well publicised picture of him confronted by a young lady in a wheelchair asking if he intended to cut her money in reply gimp tells her that he would never cut the vulnerable or anyone in her predicament and he warmly embraces her... emm? well guess what? that was another fukn lie! >:( just this week fine gael announced that the mobility allowance for people like the girl in the pictures is to be scrapped leaving her and other vunerable people up shit creek. why oh why did he have to lie to the likes of wheelchair bound people then shaft them?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on February 28, 2013, 11:04:33 PM
Don't have much time for Enda and his blueshirts but even I can't fathom how they could stoop so low for such a relatively measley saving. Even worse is seeing the biggest mouth in opposition (Gilmore) say nothing now. Disgraceful.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 09:41:08 PM
at one stage 8 ambulances thats 2/3 of the dublin emergency ambulance service were sitting outside of the one hospital in dublin unable to unload their patients. meanwhile an injured man lay in the snow with dozens of bystanders phoning and phoning to get him help according to jao mebollix today. calls from cork as well very bad service also. no calls from roscommon though ??? so obviously the answer is to close the a+e then the sheep cant complain about the queues..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 09:41:08 PM
at one stage 8 ambulances thats 2/3 of the dublin emergency ambulance service were sitting outside of the one hospital in dublin unable to unload their patients. meanwhile an injured man lay in the snow with dozens of bystanders phoning and phoning to get him help according to jao mebollix today. calls from cork as well very bad service also. no calls from roscommon though ??? so obviously the answer is to close the a+e then the sheep cant complain about the queues..
Whereas if SF was in government, it would work more like this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21749908
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 09:41:08 PM
at one stage 8 ambulances thats 2/3 of the dublin emergency ambulance service were sitting outside of the one hospital in dublin unable to unload their patients. meanwhile an injured man lay in the snow with dozens of bystanders phoning and phoning to get him help according to jao mebollix today. calls from cork as well very bad service also. no calls from roscommon though ??? so obviously the answer is to close the a+e then the sheep cant complain about the queues..
Whereas if SF was in government, it would work more like this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21749908
again you like to attach sinn fein to what ever you think you can. you are fully aware that sinn fein are part of an all party team at stormont that includes stoops so point the finger at them all 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:30:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 09:41:08 PM
at one stage 8 ambulances thats 2/3 of the dublin emergency ambulance service were sitting outside of the one hospital in dublin unable to unload their patients. meanwhile an injured man lay in the snow with dozens of bystanders phoning and phoning to get him help according to jao mebollix today. calls from cork as well very bad service also. no calls from roscommon though ??? so obviously the answer is to close the a+e then the sheep cant complain about the queues..
Whereas if SF was in government, it would work more like this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21749908
again you like to attach sinn fein to what ever you think you can. you are fully aware that sinn fein are part of an all party team at stormont that includes stoops so point the finger at them all
But you're the one who'd suggest SF as an alternative government in the south, are you not?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:43:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:30:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 09:41:08 PM
at one stage 8 ambulances thats 2/3 of the dublin emergency ambulance service were sitting outside of the one hospital in dublin unable to unload their patients. meanwhile an injured man lay in the snow with dozens of bystanders phoning and phoning to get him help according to jao mebollix today. calls from cork as well very bad service also. no calls from roscommon though ??? so obviously the answer is to close the a+e then the sheep cant complain about the queues..
Whereas if SF was in government, it would work more like this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21749908
again you like to attach sinn fein to what ever you think you can. you are fully aware that sinn fein are part of an all party team at stormont that includes stoops so point the finger at them all
But you're the one who'd suggest SF as an alternative government in the south, are you not?
yes! and after our dungout we will put the health and well being of 'all' irish citizens including women at the top of the agenda regardless of what colour the smoke is..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: NetNitrate on March 13, 2013, 12:45:49 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:43:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:30:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 09:41:08 PM
at one stage 8 ambulances thats 2/3 of the dublin emergency ambulance service were sitting outside of the one hospital in dublin unable to unload their patients. meanwhile an injured man lay in the snow with dozens of bystanders phoning and phoning to get him help according to jao mebollix today. calls from cork as well very bad service also. no calls from roscommon though ??? so obviously the answer is to close the a+e then the sheep cant complain about the queues..
Whereas if SF was in government, it would work more like this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21749908
again you like to attach sinn fein to what ever you think you can. you are fully aware that sinn fein are part of an all party team at stormont that includes stoops so point the finger at them all
But you're the one who'd suggest SF as an alternative government in the south, are you not?
yes! and after our dungout we will put the health and well being of 'all' irish citizens including women at the top of the agenda regardless of what colour the smoke is..

Great news for anyone who needs new kneecaps.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 13, 2013, 09:33:08 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:43:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:30:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 09:41:08 PM
at one stage 8 ambulances thats 2/3 of the dublin emergency ambulance service were sitting outside of the one hospital in dublin unable to unload their patients. meanwhile an injured man lay in the snow with dozens of bystanders phoning and phoning to get him help according to jao mebollix today. calls from cork as well very bad service also. no calls from roscommon though ??? so obviously the answer is to close the a+e then the sheep cant complain about the queues..
Whereas if SF was in government, it would work more like this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21749908
again you like to attach sinn fein to what ever you think you can. you are fully aware that sinn fein are part of an all party team at stormont that includes stoops so point the finger at them all
But you're the one who'd suggest SF as an alternative government in the south, are you not?
yes! and after our dungout we will put the health and well being of 'all' irish citizens including women at the top of the agenda regardless of what colour the smoke is..
If you can't do it in the north...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on March 15, 2013, 10:24:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 13, 2013, 09:33:08 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:43:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:30:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 09:41:08 PM
at one stage 8 ambulances thats 2/3 of the dublin emergency ambulance service were sitting outside of the one hospital in dublin unable to unload their patients. meanwhile an injured man lay in the snow with dozens of bystanders phoning and phoning to get him help according to jao mebollix today. calls from cork as well very bad service also. no calls from roscommon though ??? so obviously the answer is to close the a+e then the sheep cant complain about the queues..
Whereas if SF was in government, it would work more like this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21749908
again you like to attach sinn fein to what ever you think you can. you are fully aware that sinn fein are part of an all party team at stormont that includes stoops so point the finger at them all
But you're the one who'd suggest SF as an alternative government in the south, are you not?
yes! and after our dungout we will put the health and well being of 'all' irish citizens including women at the top of the agenda regardless of what colour the smoke is..
If you can't do it in the north...
sinn feins role in the 6 counties is more of a holding action while we finish off the stoops and gently massage the loyalists while suffocating them and also erode their foundation
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 15, 2013, 10:43:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 15, 2013, 10:24:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 13, 2013, 09:33:08 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:43:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:30:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 09:41:08 PM
at one stage 8 ambulances thats 2/3 of the dublin emergency ambulance service were sitting outside of the one hospital in dublin unable to unload their patients. meanwhile an injured man lay in the snow with dozens of bystanders phoning and phoning to get him help according to jao mebollix today. calls from cork as well very bad service also. no calls from roscommon though ??? so obviously the answer is to close the a+e then the sheep cant complain about the queues..
Whereas if SF was in government, it would work more like this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21749908
again you like to attach sinn fein to what ever you think you can. you are fully aware that sinn fein are part of an all party team at stormont that includes stoops so point the finger at them all
But you're the one who'd suggest SF as an alternative government in the south, are you not?
yes! and after our dungout we will put the health and well being of 'all' irish citizens including women at the top of the agenda regardless of what colour the smoke is..
If you can't do it in the north...
sinn feins role in the 6 counties is more of a holding action while we finish off the stoops and gently massage the loyalists while suffocating them and also erode their foundation

Using your thug words such as "dungout" really does give us insight on the type of Pol Pot government SF will lead to.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on March 15, 2013, 10:56:53 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 15, 2013, 10:43:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 15, 2013, 10:24:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 13, 2013, 09:33:08 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:43:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:30:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 09:41:08 PM
at one stage 8 ambulances thats 2/3 of the dublin emergency ambulance service were sitting outside of the one hospital in dublin unable to unload their patients. meanwhile an injured man lay in the snow with dozens of bystanders phoning and phoning to get him help according to jao mebollix today. calls from cork as well very bad service also. no calls from roscommon though ??? so obviously the answer is to close the a+e then the sheep cant complain about the queues..
Whereas if SF was in government, it would work more like this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21749908
again you like to attach sinn fein to what ever you think you can. you are fully aware that sinn fein are part of an all party team at stormont that includes stoops so point the finger at them all
But you're the one who'd suggest SF as an alternative government in the south, are you not?
yes! and after our dungout we will put the health and well being of 'all' irish citizens including women at the top of the agenda regardless of what colour the smoke is..
If you can't do it in the north...
sinn feins role in the 6 counties is more of a holding action while we finish off the stoops and gently massage the loyalists while suffocating them and also erode their foundation

Using your thug words such as "dungout" really does give us insight on the type of Pol Pot government SF will lead to.
internment before trial is likely for traitors. it worked for dev. marty whelan to vandeemans and ryan tubridy to mongolia. it has to be done mayo. its for your own good. giving up sliveenism will be like quitting the fags but once you see how much money you save.. you'll love it.
its not like we will actually hang anyone more a sort of relieving them of their ill gotten gains guys like bertie and mcdowell and james reilly larry goodman we dont mind going back a bit. a sort of robinhood scenario
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 16, 2013, 12:07:24 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 15, 2013, 10:56:53 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 15, 2013, 10:43:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 15, 2013, 10:24:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 13, 2013, 09:33:08 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:43:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:30:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 09:41:08 PM
at one stage 8 ambulances thats 2/3 of the dublin emergency ambulance service were sitting outside of the one hospital in dublin unable to unload their patients. meanwhile an injured man lay in the snow with dozens of bystanders phoning and phoning to get him help according to jao mebollix today. calls from cork as well very bad service also. no calls from roscommon though ??? so obviously the answer is to close the a+e then the sheep cant complain about the queues..
Whereas if SF was in government, it would work more like this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21749908
again you like to attach sinn fein to what ever you think you can. you are fully aware that sinn fein are part of an all party team at stormont that includes stoops so point the finger at them all
But you're the one who'd suggest SF as an alternative government in the south, are you not?
yes! and after our dungout we will put the health and well being of 'all' irish citizens including women at the top of the agenda regardless of what colour the smoke is..
If you can't do it in the north...
sinn feins role in the 6 counties is more of a holding action while we finish off the stoops and gently massage the loyalists while suffocating them and also erode their foundation

Using your thug words such as "dungout" really does give us insight on the type of Pol Pot government SF will lead to.
internment before trial is likely for traitors. it worked for dev. marty whelan to vandeemans and ryan tubridy to mongolia. it has to be done mayo. its for your own good. giving up sliveenism will be like quitting the fags but once you see how much money you save.. you'll love it.
its not like we will actually hang anyone more a sort of relieving them of their ill gotten gains guys like bertie and mcdowell and james reilly larry goodman we dont mind going back a bit. a sort of robinhood scenario

Robbing Hoods is a good description of SF/IRA alright.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on March 16, 2013, 08:36:59 AM
yes mayo you are now in jim allister territory himself and you are the only ones talking about sf/ira.

i wouldnt mind enda too much but why oh why does he have to lie?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Olly on March 16, 2013, 09:28:21 AM
Jane Adams is a Fine Gael.

(http://www.irishdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/424178.jpg)

That's her on the right.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 16, 2013, 09:28:31 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 16, 2013, 08:36:59 AM
yes mayo you are now in jim allister territory himself and you are the only ones talking about sf/ira.

i wouldnt mind enda too much but why oh why does he have to lie?

Actually talking of you're dungout word, maybe SF/IRA need one. Step 1 - Name change, Step 2 - throw all the Provosout, Step 3 -Stop all the thug lingo, Step 4 - Admit and apologise for the criminal and terrorist actions of SF/IRA over last 40 yeara, Step 5 - Stop telling people of North one thing and the Republic another, Step 6 - Make the economy (& therefore the people) both North and Republic your top and number one priority, Step 7 - Make 85% of your membership from the Republic, Step 8 - Use the terms Ireland, Eire or Republic of Ireland  when talking about the Irish state.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on March 17, 2013, 07:47:27 AM
name change? i don't get that one. Provo's out? most of the volunteers in the party are men in their 60s so throwing them out isn't necessary time is taking them out of the picture. i think as regards apologies sinn fein have been calling for a truth and reconciliation commission for some time, the issue has been carefully avoided by the other combatants. as for the economy it IS our priority we are the one who wanted the money you crowd gave to the banks spent on job creation. only a couple of months age we saw obama lift an idea straight off the sinn fein manifesto. "make 85% of your membership from the republic"? now who's talking thug language? if  we could wave a magic wand- yes. but expansion is very difficult when only last month opinion polls show a drift back to 'fianna fail' how do you turn that around. as for step 8 how about 'banana' or puppet or German statelet since fianna gael have ceded sovereignty and are merely adminis'traitors'
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 17, 2013, 10:03:47 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 17, 2013, 07:47:27 AM
name change? i don't get that one. Provo's out? most of the volunteers in the party are men in their 60s so throwing them out isn't necessary time is taking them out of the picture. i think as regards apologies sinn fein have been calling for a truth and reconciliation commission for some time, the issue has been carefully avoided by the other combatants. as for the economy it IS our priority we are the one who wanted the money you crowd gave to the banks spent on job creation. only a couple of months age we saw obama lift an idea straight off the sinn fein manifesto. "make 85% of your membership from the republic"? now who's talking thug language? if  we could wave a magic wand- yes. but expansion is very difficult when only last month opinion polls show a drift back to 'fianna fail' how do you turn that around. as for step 8 how about 'banana' or puppet or German statelet since fianna gael have ceded sovereignty and are merely adminis'traitors'
Are we back to talking about Stormont?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on March 17, 2013, 10:21:33 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 17, 2013, 10:03:47 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 17, 2013, 07:47:27 AM
name change? i don't get that one. Provo's out? most of the volunteers in the party are men in their 60s so throwing them out isn't necessary time is taking them out of the picture. i think as regards apologies sinn fein have been calling for a truth and reconciliation commission for some time, the issue has been carefully avoided by the other combatants. as for the economy it IS our priority we are the one who wanted the money you crowd gave to the banks spent on job creation. only a couple of months age we saw obama lift an idea straight off the sinn fein manifesto. "make 85% of your membership from the republic"? now who's talking thug language? if  we could wave a magic wand- yes. but expansion is very difficult when only last month opinion polls show a drift back to 'fianna fail' how do you turn that around. as for step 8 how about 'banana' or puppet or German statelet since fianna gael have ceded sovereignty and are merely adminis'traitors'
Are we back to talking about Stormont?
its about cheques and balances you give a bit you get a bit in the realisation that you strive to achieve your aims but life goes on. the north of ireland is a better place now for republicans and nationalists than it was 40 years ago when we were getting kicked and tripped trying to get in to vote or couldnt get a house when there were empty ones all over the place
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 17, 2013, 11:01:57 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 17, 2013, 10:21:33 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 17, 2013, 10:03:47 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 17, 2013, 07:47:27 AM
name change? i don't get that one. Provo's out? most of the volunteers in the party are men in their 60s so throwing them out isn't necessary time is taking them out of the picture. i think as regards apologies sinn fein have been calling for a truth and reconciliation commission for some time, the issue has been carefully avoided by the other combatants. as for the economy it IS our priority we are the one who wanted the money you crowd gave to the banks spent on job creation. only a couple of months age we saw obama lift an idea straight off the sinn fein manifesto. "make 85% of your membership from the republic"? now who's talking thug language? if  we could wave a magic wand- yes. but expansion is very difficult when only last month opinion polls show a drift back to 'fianna fail' how do you turn that around. as for step 8 how about 'banana' or puppet or German statelet since fianna gael have ceded sovereignty and are merely adminis'traitors'
Are we back to talking about Stormont?
its about cheques and balances you give a bit you get a bit in the realisation that you strive to achieve your aims but life goes on. the north of ireland is a better place now for republicans and nationalists than it was 40 years ago when we were getting kicked and tripped trying to get in to vote or couldnt get a house when there were empty ones all over the place
Expense claims?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 17, 2013, 11:15:34 AM
Poor FG now 4% behind FF in the latest poll.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on March 17, 2013, 11:20:57 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 17, 2013, 11:15:34 AM
Poor FG now 4% behind FF in the latest poll.

Which one is which again?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on March 17, 2013, 11:55:38 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 17, 2013, 11:20:57 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 17, 2013, 11:15:34 AM
Poor FG now 4% behind FF in the latest poll.

Which one is which again?
they'll join together no one will notice the difference
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: LeoMc on March 17, 2013, 09:18:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 15, 2013, 10:24:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 13, 2013, 09:33:08 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:43:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:30:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2013, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 12, 2013, 09:41:08 PM
at one stage 8 ambulances thats 2/3 of the dublin emergency ambulance service were sitting outside of the one hospital in dublin unable to unload their patients. meanwhile an injured man lay in the snow with dozens of bystanders phoning and phoning to get him help according to jao mebollix today. calls from cork as well very bad service also. no calls from roscommon though ??? so obviously the answer is to close the a+e then the sheep cant complain about the queues..
Whereas if SF was in government, it would work more like this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21749908
again you like to attach sinn fein to what ever you think you can. you are fully aware that sinn fein are part of an all party team at stormont that includes stoops so point the finger at them all
But you're the one who'd suggest SF as an alternative government in the south, are you not?
yes! and after our dungout we will put the health and well being of 'all' irish citizens including women at the top of the agenda regardless of what colour the smoke is..
If you can't do it in the north...
sinn feins role in the 6 counties is more of a holding action while we finish off the stoops and gently massage the loyalists while suffocating them and also erode their foundation
Gentle massage, a bit of asphyxiation and then finishing off, an interesting role they are playing.
Wouldn't fancy Catriona eroding my foundation.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Minder on April 13, 2013, 09:30:54 PM
Story in Sindo tomorrow that Phil Hogan and his advisers have racked up €133k in travel costs in two years, including an €800 meal in Rio.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on April 13, 2013, 09:37:36 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 13, 2013, 09:30:54 PM
Story in Sindo tomorrow that Phil Hogan and his advisers have racked up €133k in travel costs in two years, including an €800 meal in Rio.

As long as he has something to show for this then I couldn't care less. If he has nothing to show for it he should resign or be fired. (I honestly don't know either way).

John O'Donoghue did this sort of thing as Ceann Comhairle, which was way out of order.

People whinge about costs and expenses of advisors etc. Sometimes they have a point, but not always.

I'll put it this way, how much would an advisor, really worth his salt, have been worth the night of the Bank Guarantee?

One who could have spelled out the next 5-10 years with great clarity to Cowan & Lenihan?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Minder on April 13, 2013, 09:43:54 PM
I have to confess muppet, this was a clunky attempt to get Lawnseed to this thread.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Minder on April 13, 2013, 10:12:46 PM
I would say this is the Sindos revenge for Hogans "kn**ker" and "put manners" comments a few weeks ago about Indo journalists.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on April 14, 2013, 01:08:28 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 17, 2013, 11:55:38 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 17, 2013, 11:20:57 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 17, 2013, 11:15:34 AM
Poor FG now 4% behind FF in the latest poll.

Which one is which again?
they'll join together no one will notice the difference

I have the same problem distinguishing between the DUP and SF, which ones are the ones that secure British rule in the Narth of Ireland for at least another 100 years, o ya it's both  :o
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on April 14, 2013, 02:01:46 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 13, 2013, 09:43:54 PM
I have to confess muppet, this was a clunky attempt to get Lawnseed to this thread.

Tell him about Mary Lou and Manolo.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on May 20, 2013, 11:04:36 PM
dont know how fine gael manage it but its been some time since they've been held up to the light.

anyway shatter showed his true colours this week when he tried to ambush mick wallace over a driving incident on prime time. shatter revealed that wallace had had the benefit of gardai descretion when he wasnt convicted of talking on his phone whilst driving. which is all very well but firstly wallace wasnt convicted and then had his points wiped he was only 'spoken to' secondly did shatter seek to get the dirt on wallace or was the information offered in the expectation of embarrassing wallace as some sort of sick 'trump card' by the gardai. either way this has sliveen written all over it and "fianna fail" are calling for him to resign ::) it just gets sicker by the minute. roll on the dungout!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 21, 2013, 10:05:52 AM
If all the people of the 26 had to worry about is Wallace's driving habits we'd be grand.
might surprise Lawnseed but the real people don't give 2 flying fcuks about this "controversy".
Like Ming the scruffy Wexford failed builder was all gung ho  holier than thou but has been "outed" as not being that clean after all.
Why should it be a big secret? Why should people be let get away with hypocrisy?
If he went to Court and was fined it would be in the public domain so why shouldn't cautions for law breaking also be available for the public to access.?
Anyway Lawnseed - you need to start your "dungout" in Stormont where both DUPes and Shinners have been "looking after" their mates. ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 21, 2013, 12:05:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 21, 2013, 10:05:52 AM
If all the people of the 26 had to worry about is Wallace's driving habits we'd be grand.
might surprise Lawnseed but the real people don't give 2 flying fcuks about this "controversy".
Like Ming the scruffy Wexford failed builder was all gung ho  holier than thou but has been "outed" as not being that clean after all.
Why should it be a big secret? Why should people be let get away with hypocrisy?
If he went to Court and was fined it would be in the public domain so why shouldn't cautions for law breaking also be available for the public to access.?
Anyway Lawnseed - you need to start your "dungout" in Stormont where both DUPes and Shinners have been "looking after" their mates. ;)

He thinks he is clearing the sheds on his inheritied country estate with his vocabulary.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Declan on May 21, 2013, 02:15:12 PM
QuoteIf he went to Court and was fined it would be in the public domain so why shouldn't cautions for law breaking also be available for the public to access

But that's the whole point he didn't go to court and wasn't subject to any penalty points. So now every time a garda wags his finger at me or has a chat, as only happened last week in a frantic dash to a match, I'll be reported onto Pulse etc - my arse I will

Quotethe real people don't give 2 flying fcuks about this "controversy".

Jaysus I'd consider myself real and I think Shatter totally abused his position to score a cheap political trick and if you want to talk hypocrisy look up what he's said in the past about previous incumbents of the MoJ and compare it to his behaviour in the last few days. Anyone that can make Wallace look like a victim is a gobshite and that's what he's done
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on May 21, 2013, 10:54:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 21, 2013, 10:05:52 AM
If all the people of the 26 had to worry about is Wallace's driving habits we'd be grand.
might surprise Lawnseed but the real people don't give 2 flying fcuks about this "controversy".
Like Ming the scruffy Wexford failed builder was all gung ho  holier than thou but has been "outed" as not being that clean after all.
Why should it be a big secret? Why should people be let get away with hypocrisy?
If he went to Court and was fined it would be in the public domain so why shouldn't cautions for law breaking also be available for the public to access.?
Anyway Lawnseed - you need to start your "dungout" in Stormont where both DUPes and Shinners have been "looking after" their mates. ;)
again rossfan you show you complete naivity and innocence. i'm going to expain this to you just once so read the thread properly and feel free to sleep on it or run it by a few of your friends or maybe your teacher.

firstly mick wallace admits he was on his phone, secondly he was not convicted of anything in relation to the phone incident, thirdly he was not formally cautioned, forthly the incident has obviously been discussed within the guards and the information passed on to mr shatter to use as ammunition against mr wallace who is trying to highlight garda corruption which makes the culpits uncomfortable and in any other real 'democracy' would lead to their conviction and or dismissal without pension.

this is corruption and the information falls within the data protection act. (thats the law that stops the likes of shatter from putting a camera in your bathroom)

mr shatter could have said this in the dail in the midst of a debate concerning  garda descretion but he forgot himself and blabbed it on primetime thats an offence.

your right of course why should we care what mick wallace does while hes driving or if hes caught or gets off its merely a spec in the broth of the rotten sliveen ridden excuse for a country in which you've chosen to make a home for yourself.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 22, 2013, 02:05:36 PM
Ah Hayseed - Your concern for Tax Cheat Wallace is touching.
Be very hard to run a SF type Social Democracy with high government spending if everyone does what the likes of Wallace did.
Why shouldn't Garda cautions be on the public record.?
Why should it be a big secret if Wallace or any other gobsh1te goes around breaking the Law and putting peoples' lives at risk?

I see your Unionism  ;) breaks through at the end when you speak of me obviously living in a different country to you.
I always say I live in Ireland , the country I was born and reared in.
I may live in a different State than you but in the same country.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on May 22, 2013, 02:16:44 PM
Quote from: Declan on May 21, 2013, 02:15:12 PM
Anyone that can make Wallace look like a victim is a gobshite and that's what he's done

Love it, absolutely love it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 22, 2013, 03:57:42 PM
Quote from: deiseach on May 22, 2013, 02:16:44 PM
Quote from: Declan on May 21, 2013, 02:15:12 PM
Anyone that can make Wallace look like a victim is a gobshite and that's what he's done

Love it, absolutely love it.
+1.
Shatter is a walking gaffe merchant whose arrogance will keep him at it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 22, 2013, 04:07:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 22, 2013, 03:57:42 PM
Quote from: deiseach on May 22, 2013, 02:16:44 PM
Quote from: Declan on May 21, 2013, 02:15:12 PM
Anyone that can make Wallace look like a victim is a gobshite and that's what he's done

Love it, absolutely love it.
+1.
Shatter is a walking gaffe merchant whose arrogance will keep him at it.

Shatter is a twat.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 22, 2013, 04:08:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 22, 2013, 02:05:36 PM
Ah Hayseed - Your concern for Tax Cheat Wallace is touching.
Be very hard to run a SF type Social Democracy with high government spending if everyone does what the likes of Wallace did.
Why shouldn't Garda cautions be on the public record.?
Why should it be a big secret if Wallace or any other gobsh1te goes around breaking the Law and putting peoples' lives at risk?

I see your Unionism  ;) breaks through at the end when you speak of me obviously living in a different country to you.
I always say I live in Ireland , the country I was born and reared in.
I may live in a different State than you but in the same country.

;D Those partitionists would make you sick  ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on May 23, 2013, 09:57:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 22, 2013, 02:05:36 PM
Ah Hayseed - Your concern for Tax Cheat Wallace is touching.
Be very hard to run a SF type Social Democracy with high government spending if everyone does what the likes of Wallace did.
Why shouldn't Garda cautions be on the public record.?
Why should it be a big secret if Wallace or any other gobsh1te goes around breaking the Law and putting peoples' lives at risk?

I see your Unionism  ;) breaks through at the end when you speak of me obviously living in a different country to you.
I always say I live in Ireland , the country I was born and reared in.
I may live in a different State than you but in the same country.
your ignorance of the laws of the 26 counties makes you exactly the sort of victim that 'fianna gael' thrive on.
and now your hero shatter turns out he was stopped and breathalysed, failed to do it properly then claimed he was on dail business when he was on his way home. he should have been arrested and taken to the station to gave blood or urine but the guards let him off once they realised who he was i.e a TD. thats corruption

when this happened claire daly it was in the next mornings papers. but sure she not one of 'ye' so thats ok
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on May 23, 2013, 11:56:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 23, 2013, 09:57:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 22, 2013, 02:05:36 PM
Ah Hayseed - Your concern for Tax Cheat Wallace is touching.
Be very hard to run a SF type Social Democracy with high government spending if everyone does what the likes of Wallace did.
Why shouldn't Garda cautions be on the public record.?
Why should it be a big secret if Wallace or any other gobsh1te goes around breaking the Law and putting peoples' lives at risk?

I see your Unionism  ;) breaks through at the end when you speak of me obviously living in a different country to you.
I always say I live in Ireland , the country I was born and reared in.
I may live in a different State than you but in the same country.
your ignorance of the laws of the 26 counties makes you exactly the sort of victim that 'fianna gael' thrive on.
and now your hero shatter turns out he was stopped and breathalysed, failed to do it properly then claimed he was on dail business when he was on his way home. he should have been arrested and taken to the station to gave blood or urine but the guards let him off once they realised who he was i.e a TD. thats corruption

when this happened claire daly it was in the next mornings papers. but sure she not one of 'ye' so thats ok
Eh, has it not been in the news? Will it not be in tomorrow's papers?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 24, 2013, 12:06:20 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 23, 2013, 11:56:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 23, 2013, 09:57:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 22, 2013, 02:05:36 PM
Ah Hayseed - Your concern for Tax Cheat Wallace is touching.
Be very hard to run a SF type Social Democracy with high government spending if everyone does what the likes of Wallace did.
Why shouldn't Garda cautions be on the public record.?
Why should it be a big secret if Wallace or any other gobsh1te goes around breaking the Law and putting peoples' lives at risk?

I see your Unionism  ;) breaks through at the end when you speak of me obviously living in a different country to you.
I always say I live in Ireland , the country I was born and reared in.
I may live in a different State than you but in the same country.
your ignorance of the laws of the 26 counties makes you exactly the sort of victim that 'fianna gael' thrive on.
and now your hero shatter turns out he was stopped and breathalysed, failed to do it properly then claimed he was on dail business when he was on his way home. he should have been arrested and taken to the station to gave blood or urine but the guards let him off once they realised who he was i.e a TD. thats corruption

when this happened claire daly it was in the next mornings papers. but sure she not one of 'ye' so thats ok
Eh, has it not been in the news? Will it not be in tomorrow's papers?

He reads the UK papers like the Irish News.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on May 24, 2013, 12:26:17 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 23, 2013, 09:57:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 22, 2013, 02:05:36 PM
Ah Hayseed - Your concern for Tax Cheat Wallace is touching.
Be very hard to run a SF type Social Democracy with high government spending if everyone does what the likes of Wallace did.
Why shouldn't Garda cautions be on the public record.?
Why should it be a big secret if Wallace or any other gobsh1te goes around breaking the Law and putting peoples' lives at risk?

I see your Unionism  ;) breaks through at the end when you speak of me obviously living in a different country to you.
I always say I live in Ireland , the country I was born and reared in.
I may live in a different State than you but in the same country.
your ignorance of the laws of the 26 counties makes you exactly the sort of victim that 'fianna gael' thrive on.
and now your hero shatter turns out he was stopped and breathalysed, failed to do it properly then claimed he was on dail business when he was on his way home. he should have been arrested and taken to the station to gave blood or urine but the guards let him off once they realised who he was i.e a TD. thats corruption

when this happened claire daly it was in the next mornings papers. but sure she not one of 'ye' so thats ok
The reporting of this seems to be inaccurate or just plain lazy.
I see the excuse for not using the breathalyzer is that he is an asthmatic !
Would a normal asthma sufferer be allowed to shun the test ... Maybe, but they'd be carted off down the nick to give a blood sample!
I see he has not answered the questions on whether he said he was on dail business or did he end up going to the dail thereafter!
Looks like he wasnt/didn't!!!
Shitter has new issues/enemies on a daily basis and could cause the collapse of the gov if Inda isn't careful.
Shitter called for Willie O'dea to resign over less- it will be the height of hypocrisy for him to carry on in this role now!
He is not fit for office. A self effacing disgrace.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 24, 2013, 11:01:51 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 24, 2013, 12:26:17 AM
He is not fit for office. A self effacing disgrace.

Anyone who makes Mattie( we all drive better after a few pints) McGrath look good is certainly not fit for any office.
He'll probably be shifted off to Europe now as a punishment  :D ( and to upset Hayseed as well  ;D)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on May 24, 2013, 11:04:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 23, 2013, 11:56:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 23, 2013, 09:57:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 22, 2013, 02:05:36 PM
Ah Hayseed - Your concern for Tax Cheat Wallace is touching.
Be very hard to run a SF type Social Democracy with high government spending if everyone does what the likes of Wallace did.
Why shouldn't Garda cautions be on the public record.?
Why should it be a big secret if Wallace or any other gobsh1te goes around breaking the Law and putting peoples' lives at risk?

I see your Unionism  ;) breaks through at the end when you speak of me obviously living in a different country to you.
I always say I live in Ireland , the country I was born and reared in.
I may live in a different State than you but in the same country.
your ignorance of the laws of the 26 counties makes you exactly the sort of victim that 'fianna gael' thrive on.
and now your hero shatter turns out he was stopped and breathalysed, failed to do it properly then claimed he was on dail business when he was on his way home. he should have been arrested and taken to the station to gave blood or urine but the guards let him off once they realised who he was i.e a TD. thats corruption

when this happened claire daly it was in the next mornings papers. but sure she not one of 'ye' so thats ok
Eh, has it not been in the news? Will it not be in tomorrow's papers?
when ms daly was stopped and taken in custody it was because she failed a breath test that showed  she had alcohol in her system. she too could have claimed she was on dail business or said she was asthmatic. never the less someone in the gardai released details of her detention to the press almost immediately to embarrass her. details of mr shatters encounter were slipped to fianna fail in an effort to force him to resign. also a message from fianna fail 'we've got friends in the guards as well.' the whole thing stinks all tds claiming to have details of other political entities encounters with the law should be forced to name their contacts in the guards and the spies should be asked to resign
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on May 25, 2013, 07:47:25 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 24, 2013, 11:04:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 23, 2013, 11:56:33 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on May 23, 2013, 09:57:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 22, 2013, 02:05:36 PM
Ah Hayseed - Your concern for Tax Cheat Wallace is touching.
Be very hard to run a SF type Social Democracy with high government spending if everyone does what the likes of Wallace did.
Why shouldn't Garda cautions be on the public record.?
Why should it be a big secret if Wallace or any other gobsh1te goes around breaking the Law and putting peoples' lives at risk?

I see your Unionism  ;) breaks through at the end when you speak of me obviously living in a different country to you.
I always say I live in Ireland , the country I was born and reared in.
I may live in a different State than you but in the same country.
your ignorance of the laws of the 26 counties makes you exactly the sort of victim that 'fianna gael' thrive on.
and now your hero shatter turns out he was stopped and breathalysed, failed to do it properly then claimed he was on dail business when he was on his way home. he should have been arrested and taken to the station to gave blood or urine but the guards let him off once they realised who he was i.e a TD. thats corruption

when this happened claire daly it was in the next mornings papers. but sure she not one of 'ye' so thats ok
Eh, has it not been in the news? Will it not be in tomorrow's papers?
when ms daly was stopped and taken in custody it was because she failed a breath test that showed  she had alcohol in her system. she too could have claimed she was on dail business or said she was asthmatic. never the less someone in the gardai released details of her detention to the press almost immediately to embarrass her. details of mr shatters encounter were slipped to fianna fail in an effort to force him to resign. also a message from fianna fail 'we've got friends in the guards as well.' the whole thing stinks all tds claiming to have details of other political entities encounters with the law should be forced to name their contacts in the guards and the spies should be asked to resign
Was it in the papers or not?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on May 28, 2013, 09:34:39 PM
shatter seems untouchable.. he flouts the law openly, and sneers in the face of the irish electorate, and to top it off hes writes softporn in his spare time. a beacon of respectability and fine gael back him to the last with the labour lapdogs
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on May 29, 2013, 10:29:52 AM
I heard he ordered the kneecapping of a young lad as well one time. His crew blew up a streetful of pensioners one Sunday morning, they say and machine-gunned a vanload of men coming home from work. In fairness, that's the common stuff of a lifetime's politics. But I never knew about the "softpporn" outrage. Impeach him!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: johnneycool on May 29, 2013, 10:46:06 AM
Anyone who uses the line, 'do you know who I am?' is a knob of the highest kind and shouldn't be let in a position of power.

Did the guards ever find that report yet?

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Canalman on May 29, 2013, 11:17:09 AM
Quote from: Hardy on May 29, 2013, 10:29:52 AM
I heard he ordered the kneecapping of a young lad as well one time. His crew blew up a streetful of pensioners one Sunday morning, they say and machine-gunned a vanload of men coming home from work. In fairness, that's the common stuff of a lifetime's politics. But I never knew about the "softpporn" outrage. Impeach him!

"His crew" in fact blew up a streetful of Irishmen by tying them to a landmine and machine gunned plenty of "vanloads of men" in their time. Oh did I forget to mention their fascist tendencies in the past. Time imvho to leave history behind and concentrate on the future.

That's "the common stuff" of Irish politics sadly.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: All of a Sludden on July 25, 2013, 12:30:46 AM
From the party of Law and Order.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/councillors-drinkdrive-conviction-overturned-on-appeal-29443647.html

A FINE Gael councillor has successfully appealed a drink-driving conviction following an incident in which he sped away from a garda checkpoint before abandoning his car and hiding in a bush behind a churchyard

Cllr Michael Hegarty (FG) brought a challenge against his conviction to Cork Circuit Criminal Court on the basis he had been unlawfully detained by pursuing gardai during the incident 12 months ago.

Mr Hegarty (52), who is a former chairman of the Cork Joint Policing Committee, was convicted of the offence in Youghal District Court last March.

He was disqualified from driving for two years, fined €600, and had his license endorsed.

Judge Terence Finn ruled that arresting gardai had behaved properly and fully within the regulations when dealing with Mr Hegarty on August 21, 2012.

However, Judge Patrick Moran yesterday held that he was satisfied there was a doubt over the circumstances of Mr Hegarty's initial detention and he allowed the appeal.

The conviction and resultant penalties are now overturned.

Gardai found the councillor, following a lengthy foot chase, behind a bush in a derelict site not far from the churchyard at Ballymacoda in east Cork on August 21, 2012.

The father of four had denied driving while over the alcohol limit.

Gardai said Mr Hegarty, of Moanroe, Ladysbridge, Co Cork, told them he had "panicked" when he saw the checkpoint.

The two gardai said they detected a smell of alcohol from Mr Hegarty and that he was speaking to them in a slurred voice.

A breath sample provided at the scene delivered a 'fail' reading.

An intoxyliser test at Midleton garda station later delivered a result of 61 micrograms of alcohol per 100 millilitres of breath. This was almost twice the permitted alcohol driving limit.

However, Mr Hegarty's legal team argued that he was placed in a garda car before he was cautioned and formally detained.

They argued that this represented unlawful and improper detention with everything that happened afterwards effectively inadmissible.

The judge said he had a sufficient doubt over the detention to allow the appeal.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: LeoMc on July 25, 2013, 08:47:35 AM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on July 25, 2013, 12:30:46 AM
From the party of Law and Order.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/councillors-drinkdrive-conviction-overturned-on-appeal-29443647.html

A FINE Gael councillor has successfully appealed a drink-driving conviction following an incident in which he sped away from a garda checkpoint before abandoning his car and hiding in a bush behind a churchyard

Cllr Michael Hegarty (FG) brought a challenge against his conviction to Cork Circuit Criminal Court on the basis he had been unlawfully detained by pursuing gardai during the incident 12 months ago.

Mr Hegarty (52), who is a former chairman of the Cork Joint Policing Committee, was convicted of the offence in Youghal District Court last March.

He was disqualified from driving for two years, fined €600, and had his license endorsed.

Judge Terence Finn ruled that arresting gardai had behaved properly and fully within the regulations when dealing with Mr Hegarty on August 21, 2012.

However, Judge Patrick Moran yesterday held that he was satisfied there was a doubt over the circumstances of Mr Hegarty's initial detention and he allowed the appeal.

The conviction and resultant penalties are now overturned.

Gardai found the councillor, following a lengthy foot chase, behind a bush in a derelict site not far from the churchyard at Ballymacoda in east Cork on August 21, 2012.

The father of four had denied driving while over the alcohol limit.

Gardai said Mr Hegarty, of Moanroe, Ladysbridge, Co Cork, told them he had "panicked" when he saw the checkpoint.

The two gardai said they detected a smell of alcohol from Mr Hegarty and that he was speaking to them in a slurred voice.

A breath sample provided at the scene delivered a 'fail' reading.

An intoxyliser test at Midleton garda station later delivered a result of 61 micrograms of alcohol per 100 millilitres of breath. This was almost twice the permitted alcohol driving limit.

However, Mr Hegarty's legal team argued that he was placed in a garda car before he was cautioned and formally detained.

They argued that this represented unlawful and improper detention with everything that happened afterwards effectively inadmissible.

The judge said he had a sufficient doubt over the detention to allow the appeal.

WTF?
Are Guards going to have to video every arrest now to remove "sufficient doubt"?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on July 25, 2013, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on July 25, 2013, 08:47:35 AM
WTF?
Are Guards going to have to video every arrest now to remove "sufficient doubt"?

The guards are going to have to bring solicitors with them to advise them on every arrest.

Very embarrassing case for Fine Gael. It is more about being able to pay for a clever barrister to outwit the Gárdaí.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on July 25, 2013, 07:45:55 PM
 when we get in we'll thow him in jail asap >:(
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on July 25, 2013, 07:51:57 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on July 25, 2013, 07:45:55 PM
when we get in we'll thow him in jail asap >:(

Really?

Do you plan on scrapping the courts and the constitution?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on July 25, 2013, 08:03:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 25, 2013, 07:51:57 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on July 25, 2013, 07:45:55 PM
when we get in we'll thow him in jail asap >:(

Really?

Do you plan on scrapping the courts and the constitution?
Probably.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on July 25, 2013, 08:05:47 PM
We may need a period of marshall law and carfew during the dungout
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on July 25, 2013, 08:54:22 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on July 25, 2013, 08:05:47 PM
We may need a period of marshall law and carfew during the dungout
Without even getting into the rights and wrongs of what you're saying, do you mean martial law and curfew?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on July 25, 2013, 09:01:07 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 25, 2013, 08:54:22 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on July 25, 2013, 08:05:47 PM
We may need a period of marshall law and carfew during the dungout
Without even getting into the rights and wrongs of what you're saying, do you mean martial law and curfew?

I thought them bucks had given up militarism?? :D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: LeoMc on July 25, 2013, 10:50:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 25, 2013, 08:54:22 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on July 25, 2013, 08:05:47 PM
We may need a period of marshall law and carfew during the dungout
Without even getting into the rights and wrongs of what you're saying, do you mean martial law and curfew?
No Marshall law. Each town will appoint its own Community Marshall and he will hand out deputy badges when he needs a posse.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on July 26, 2013, 11:10:55 PM
No i mean  when we ride our horses through the chickens as in all good westerns we dont want "the sheep" getting in the way. I will take charge of the stocks and madame guillotine will be well greased
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on July 26, 2013, 11:57:55 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on July 25, 2013, 08:05:47 PM
We may need a period of marshall law and carfew during the dungout

You truely are a fascist.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on July 27, 2013, 11:32:05 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on July 26, 2013, 11:57:55 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on July 25, 2013, 08:05:47 PM
We may need a period of marshall law and carfew during the dungout

You truely are a fascist.
It's truly  ;)
or else join in the spirit of Hayseed's spelling and call him a fashist  ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 27, 2013, 02:02:04 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on July 26, 2013, 11:57:55 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on July 25, 2013, 08:05:47 PM
We may need a period of marshall law and carfew during the dungout

You truely are a fascist.

I can't believe people take him serious...lawnseed that is.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: All of a Sludden on July 27, 2013, 03:33:40 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on July 26, 2013, 11:57:55 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on July 25, 2013, 08:05:47 PM
We may need a period of marshall law and carfew during the dungout

You truely are a fantasist.

;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on July 27, 2013, 04:43:49 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on July 25, 2013, 12:30:46 AM
From the party of Law and Order.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/councillors-drinkdrive-conviction-overturned-on-appeal-29443647.html

A FINE Gael councillor has successfully appealed a drink-driving conviction following an incident in which he sped away from a garda checkpoint before abandoning his car and hiding in a bush behind a churchyard

Cllr Michael Hegarty (FG) brought a challenge against his conviction to Cork Circuit Criminal Court on the basis he had been unlawfully detained by pursuing gardai during the incident 12 months ago.

Mr Hegarty (52), who is a former chairman of the Cork Joint Policing Committee, was convicted of the offence in Youghal District Court last March.

He was disqualified from driving for two years, fined €600, and had his license endorsed.

Judge Terence Finn ruled that arresting gardai had behaved properly and fully within the regulations when dealing with Mr Hegarty on August 21, 2012.

However, Judge Patrick Moran yesterday held that he was satisfied there was a doubt over the circumstances of Mr Hegarty's initial detention and he allowed the appeal.

The conviction and resultant penalties are now overturned.

Gardai found the councillor, following a lengthy foot chase, behind a bush in a derelict site not far from the churchyard at Ballymacoda in east Cork on August 21, 2012.

The father of four had denied driving while over the alcohol limit.

Gardai said Mr Hegarty, of Moanroe, Ladysbridge, Co Cork, told them he had "panicked" when he saw the checkpoint.

The two gardai said they detected a smell of alcohol from Mr Hegarty and that he was speaking to them in a slurred voice.

A breath sample provided at the scene delivered a 'fail' reading.

An intoxyliser test at Middleton garda station later delivered a result of 61 micrograms of alcohol per 100 millilitres of breath. This was almost twice the permitted alcohol driving limit.

However, Mr Hegarty's legal team argued that he was placed in a garda car before he was cautioned and formally detained.

They argued that this represented unlawful and improper detention with everything that happened afterwards effectively inadmissible.

The judge said he had a sufficient doubt over the detention to allow the appeal.
has any of you read the above???
has ANY of you read the above????
why would any party elected by the sheep of Ireland pay any attention to any of the laws or the law enforcement officers of this country??? why not take this process to its logical conclusion and just declare martial law and do and take what ever you want?? why bother with courts and laws when we will be able to ride this place into the grave with the applause and aplomb of the cretins who vote.
I completely support the idea that we gather up the scummy drug dealers and thieves and bent traitor politicians and crooked bankers and maroon them on an island until we are good and ready to deal with them. if it takes 6 or 7 years to drag them to trial then let them lay there for 6 or 7 years. sick of the hoors flouting the laws of this country and hiding behind lawyers and parliamentary privilege.  >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on July 27, 2013, 04:49:16 PM
I trust you have no truck with them Sinn Féiners seeing as they were breaking all sorts of laws for 40 odd years if not 90 at this stage. ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on July 27, 2013, 09:38:17 PM
you don't get it. you just cant see the problem. there are idiots who will be saying fair fuks to him he beat the guards, ahh yeah this is what you do.. you get a smartarse barrister to throw up some dirt on the arresting officers procedure 'sure its their fault he was drunk in the first place'. this guy will be flat out trying this ploy to get drunken drivers off. (but it only works if your rich or in politics)
  while on holidays there were a lot of Irish where I stayed, there are certain rules and protocol in the pool area.. simple things like not eating food near the pool and not plastering the place with your suncream. every day a bunch of Irish "guests" openly flouted these rules leading to food ending up floating in the water.. pieces of bread rolls, food rappers.. etc. these were ordinary everyday people from all over the country. this lead to a group of English guests complaining en-mass to the hotel manager (who was German) I was standing nearby when he told them "they're Irish what do you expect". a few years ago I'd have took him by the throat. this time I just walked away..  :-[  we don't do rules that's why the country is worse off now than a 100years ago when we had someone else running the place.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 28, 2013, 01:15:20 PM
John Perry should quit.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 07, 2013, 11:05:23 PM
ah.. haaa!  it finally rears its ugly head. on rte radio this evening guess what? the gimp Kenny is the favourite to become the next president of the European union!! I kid you not!! ffs no time ago his own party were trying to give him the elbow and now he's for Brussels! and guess what.. the job comes up just after the next Irish election... how convenient for dear enda. so that's him sorted how many pensions will that be?

someone needs to check if he has 666 under his hair "put the dog down Damian!"

Well at least we know he speaks German yaveol mein fruh merkle snel snel
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on August 08, 2013, 12:01:23 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 07, 2013, 11:05:23 PM
ah.. haaa!  it finally rears its ugly head. on rte radio this evening guess what? the gimp Kenny is the favourite to become the next president of the European union!! I kid you not!! ffs no time ago his own party were trying to give him the elbow and now he's for Brussels! and guess what.. the job comes up just after the next Irish election... how convenient for dear enda. so that's him sorted how many pensions will that be?

someone needs to check if he has 666 under his hair "put the dog down Damian!"

Well at least we know he speaks German yaveol mein fruh merkle snel snel

No link as usual Lawnseed?

I have looked at the source, which is an article in the Indo. "I kid you not!!'

It references a company called Burson-Marsteller. Their website has nothing but there is the following PDF. Under a section caled 'Some of the Names in the Frame' it lists 10 'contenders'. Kenny is mentioned in a lukewarm manner as one of them, probably in the same way Bertie was mentioned for the same job before. This is what they have to say 'Possibly a better bet for the Council job than for the Commission.' A non-story and as usual you are outraged by it.

http://burson-marsteller.eu/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/BURSON-MARSTELLER-EUROPE-DECIDES-INSIGHT-FINAL-v2.pdf (http://burson-marsteller.eu/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/BURSON-MARSTELLER-EUROPE-DECIDES-INSIGHT-FINAL-v2.pdf)

Also the job does not come up 'just after the next election'. The next election can be anytime from now until 2016.

So in conclusion he is not the 'favourite' as you stated, and the job is unlikely to come up 'just after the next election' as you stated.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 08, 2013, 12:18:29 AM
Some rise for a buckeen Richard Burton wanted to dump in a shallow grave a few years away.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 08, 2013, 07:19:52 AM
Quote from: muppet on August 08, 2013, 12:01:23 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 07, 2013, 11:05:23 PM
ah.. haaa!  it finally rears its ugly head. on rte radio this evening guess what? the gimp Kenny is the favourite to become the next president of the European union!! I kid you not!! ffs no time ago his own party were trying to give him the elbow and now he's for Brussels! and guess what.. the job comes up just after the next Irish election... how convenient for dear enda. so that's him sorted how many pensions will that be?

someone needs to check if he has 666 under his hair "put the dog down Damian!"

Well at least we know he speaks German yaveol mein fruh merkle snel snel

No link as usual Lawnseed?

I have looked at the source, which is an article in the Indo. "I kid you not!!'

It references a company called Burson-Marsteller. Their website has nothing but there is the following PDF. Under a section caled 'Some of the Names in the Frame' it lists 10 'contenders'. Kenny is mentioned in a lukewarm manner as one of them, probably in the same way Bertie was mentioned for the same job before. This is what they have to say 'Possibly a better bet for the Council job than for the Commission.' A non-story and as usual you are outraged by it.

http://burson-marsteller.eu/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/BURSON-MARSTELLER-EUROPE-DECIDES-INSIGHT-FINAL-v2.pdf (http://burson-marsteller.eu/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/BURSON-MARSTELLER-EUROPE-DECIDES-INSIGHT-FINAL-v2.pdf)

Also the job does not come up 'just after the next election'. The next election can be anytime from now until 2016.

So in conclusion he is not the 'favourite' as you stated, and the job is unlikely to come up 'just after the next election' as you stated.

no link? it was on the rte news. then again its not the first time you didn't read the post properly..
Kenny WILL take the job (if offered) no matter what time it comes up... "its for the good of the nation.. I can do more good in Europe.." jeez look at that pension!!
I doubt the irony that he was booed as he took his seat in croker at the weekend where his own county were playing will sink in with you either. the guys not even popular with his own party never mind his own country and he's mentioned in connection with the top job in europe
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on August 08, 2013, 12:12:07 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 08, 2013, 07:19:52 AM
Quote from: muppet on August 08, 2013, 12:01:23 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 07, 2013, 11:05:23 PM
ah.. haaa!  it finally rears its ugly head. on rte radio this evening guess what? the gimp Kenny is the favourite to become the next president of the European union!! I kid you not!! ffs no time ago his own party were trying to give him the elbow and now he's for Brussels! and guess what.. the job comes up just after the next Irish election... how convenient for dear enda. so that's him sorted how many pensions will that be?

someone needs to check if he has 666 under his hair "put the dog down Damian!"

Well at least we know he speaks German yaveol mein fruh merkle snel snel

No link as usual Lawnseed?

I have looked at the source, which is an article in the Indo. "I kid you not!!'

It references a company called Burson-Marsteller. Their website has nothing but there is the following PDF. Under a section caled 'Some of the Names in the Frame' it lists 10 'contenders'. Kenny is mentioned in a lukewarm manner as one of them, probably in the same way Bertie was mentioned for the same job before. This is what they have to say 'Possibly a better bet for the Council job than for the Commission.' A non-story and as usual you are outraged by it.

http://burson-marsteller.eu/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/BURSON-MARSTELLER-EUROPE-DECIDES-INSIGHT-FINAL-v2.pdf (http://burson-marsteller.eu/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/BURSON-MARSTELLER-EUROPE-DECIDES-INSIGHT-FINAL-v2.pdf)

Also the job does not come up 'just after the next election'. The next election can be anytime from now until 2016.

So in conclusion he is not the 'favourite' as you stated, and the job is unlikely to come up 'just after the next election' as you stated.

no link? it was on the rte news. then again its not the first time you didn't read the post properly..
Kenny WILL take the job (if offered) no matter what time it comes up... "its for the good of the nation.. I can do more good in Europe.." jeez look at that pension!!
I doubt the irony that he was booed as he took his seat in croker at the weekend where his own county were playing will sink in with you either. the guys not even popular with his own party never mind his own country and he's mentioned in connection with the top job in europe

Lawnseed, you didn't provide a link. A link has, eh, a link, not a vague 'on rte radio'.

You completely exaggerated the story and then was outraged by your own exaggeration.

And I couldn't care less if they threw tomatoes at him in Croker.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 08, 2013, 10:58:55 PM
ahh.. at last its finally been said by one of the 'ruling class'. fianna fail's mary o rourke has said at a meeting in tyrone that the two major parties ie fine gael and fianna fail should join in coalition at the next election. sure why not? they are the same party after all. I've been saying it for yonks..

anything to prevent he shinners holding sway ::) they'ed fianna gael sell their own mothers just to get power/money 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 08, 2013, 11:04:25 PM
Anything better than those loopers, to be fair.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 08, 2013, 11:12:49 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 08, 2013, 11:04:25 PM
Anything better than those loopers, to be fair.
you've had them both for nearly a century.. the country's doing great.. isn't it? well it is if your a member of the ruling class
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 09, 2013, 12:37:05 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 08, 2013, 11:12:49 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 08, 2013, 11:04:25 PM
Anything better than those loopers, to be fair.
you've had them both for nearly a century.. the country's doing great.. isn't it? well it is if your a member of the ruling class

Doing pretty fine, yeah. A bit of a hangover in the middle of a golden age and people start fretting. Nothing to see here.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 09, 2013, 01:40:39 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 08, 2013, 10:58:55 PM
ahh.. at last its finally been said by one of the 'ruling class'. fianna fail's mary o rourke has said at a meeting in tyrone that the two major parties ie fine gael and fianna fail should join in coalition at the next election. sure why not? they are the same party after all. I've been saying it for yonks..

anything to prevent he shinners holding sway ::) they'ed sell their own mothers just to get power/money
I agree with you, me oul' son.
Them bloody shinners would shoot their own mothers just to get power/money. ;D
But, on the off chance that you're talking about FF/FG coming together, there's as much chance of that happening as there is of me becoming Pope.
For starters, half the cumanns and party officers around the country would get the bullet.
They wouldn't be able to pull strokes anymore or claim county council expenses.
Pope Lar would have issued his first edict by then, damning all of Tyrone to the deepest pits of hell. (Mind you, Roscommon might be on the hitlist too.)
Neither party is worth the full of me arse of burnt snow, as a good Donegal mate would put it but how many effin' effers would vote for a blueshirt candidate or vice versa?
The shinners wouldn't have to shoot their mothers to become the largest party in the state. Then the stroking and fiddling expenses would be as bad as ever. So why change anything?
Stuff "Mammy" O'Rourke. That oul' wan would do anything to get her mug shot into a paper.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 09, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 09, 2013, 01:40:39 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 08, 2013, 10:58:55 PM
ahh.. at last its finally been said by one of the 'ruling class'. fianna fail's mary o rourke has said at a meeting in tyrone that the two major parties ie fine gael and fianna fail should join in coalition at the next election. sure why not? they are the same party after all. I've been saying it for yonks..

anything to prevent he shinners holding sway ::) they'ed sell their own mothers just to get power/money
I agree with you, me oul' son.
Them bloody shinners would shoot their own mothers just to get power/money. ;D
But, on the off chance that you're talking about FF/FG coming together, there's as much chance of that happening as there is of me becoming Pope.
For starters, half the cumanns and party officers around the country would get the bullet.
They wouldn't be able to pull strokes anymore or claim county council expenses.
Pope Lar would have issued his first edict by then, damning all of Tyrone to the deepest pits of hell. (Mind you, Roscommon might be on the hitlist too.)
Neither party is worth the full of me arse of burnt snow, as a good Donegal mate would put it but how many effin' effers would vote for a blueshirt candidate or vice versa?
The shinners wouldn't have to shoot their mothers to become the largest party in the state. Then the stroking and fiddling expenses would be as bad as ever. So why change anything?
Stuff "Mammy" O'Rourke. That oul' wan would do anything to get her mug shot into a paper.
Woah there Lar, steady on, I think that FF and FG could go into coalition, and pretty sooner than we think. That's my own tuppence worth anyway.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 09, 2013, 10:43:28 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 09, 2013, 01:40:39 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 08, 2013, 10:58:55 PM
ahh.. at last its finally been said by one of the 'ruling class'. fianna fail's mary o rourke has said at a meeting in tyrone that the two major parties ie fine gael and fianna fail should join in coalition at the next election. sure why not? they are the same party after all. I've been saying it for yonks..

anything to prevent he shinners holding sway ::) they'ed sell their own mothers just to get power/money
I agree with you, me oul' son.
Them bloody shinners would shoot their own mothers just to get power/money. ;D
But, on the off chance that you're talking about FF/FG coming together, there's as much chance of that happening as there is of me becoming Pope.
For starters, half the cumanns and party officers around the country would get the bullet.
They wouldn't be able to pull strokes anymore or claim county council expenses.
Pope Lar would have issued his first edict by then, damning all of Tyrone to the deepest pits of hell. (Mind you, Roscommon might be on the hitlist too.)
Neither party is worth the full of me arse of burnt snow, as a good Donegal mate would put it but how many effin' effers would vote for a blueshirt candidate or vice versa?
The shinners wouldn't have to shoot their mothers to become the largest party in the state. Then the stroking and fiddling expenses would be as bad as ever. So why change anything?
Stuff "Mammy" O'Rourke. That oul' wan would do anything to get her mug shot into a paper.

I suppose Ballagh will survive your papal edict given you'll have appropriated it to the wrong county?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 10, 2013, 12:08:58 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 09, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 09, 2013, 01:40:39 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 08, 2013, 10:58:55 PM
ahh.. at last its finally been said by one of the 'ruling class'. fianna fail's mary o rourke has said at a meeting in tyrone that the two major parties ie fine gael and fianna fail should join in coalition at the next election. sure why not? they are the same party after all. I've been saying it for yonks..

anything to prevent he shinners holding sway ::) they'ed sell their own mothers just to get power/money
I agree with you, me oul' son.
Them bloody shinners would shoot their own mothers just to get power/money. ;D
But, on the off chance that you're talking about FF/FG coming together, there's as much chance of that happening as there is of me becoming Pope.
For starters, half the cumanns and party officers around the country would get the bullet.
They wouldn't be able to pull strokes anymore or claim county council expenses.
Pope Lar would have issued his first edict by then, damning all of Tyrone to the deepest pits of hell. (Mind you, Roscommon might be on the hitlist too.)
Neither party is worth the full of me arse of burnt snow, as a good Donegal mate would put it but how many effin' effers would vote for a blueshirt candidate or vice versa?
The shinners wouldn't have to shoot their mothers to become the largest party in the state. Then the stroking and fiddling expenses would be as bad as ever. So why change anything?
Stuff "Mammy" O'Rourke. That oul' wan would do anything to get her mug shot into a paper.
Woah there Lar, steady on, I think that FF and FG could go into coalition, and pretty sooner than we think. That's my own tuppence worth anyway.

If that day ever comes Farr. you won't be able to access Gaaboard any more.
And why not, sez you?
Because a big fat flying pig  will have crash-landed on your keyboard; that's why. ;D
Turkeys don't, as a rule, vote for Christmas and in a manner of speaking neither FF nor FG could be expected to so either.
At a stroke, each would stand to lose about half of its TDs and the same amount of county councillors, party officials and all the general workers/strokers/wranglers and al others who makes Irish political so rich (for some) and so complicated (for the rest of us.)
Just think about your own locality for a minute.
I bet you can name loads of houses who have always voted FF down through the generation since the Civil War. Same goes for FG.
If both parties agreed to go into coalition before an election, how many effin' effers would follow party directives and give their second, or even their tenth, preferences to Mickey Ring?
How many Blueshirts would give a vote of any sort to the likes of, say, Dara Calleary or Frank Chambers?
In every town in Mayo, you will find "party" pubs. FF supporters will have their ones and the other shower will have theirs.  Never the twain shall meet- well, not if the publicans can help it. They have always divided the spoils by keeping the bitterness between the parties going at full blast.
Shag democracy and the will of the people; power and privilege come before and other consideration.
Besides, if those long-time foes cosy up together, a lot of hardline voters for both parties will look elsewhere. Labour is best placed to make gains in this scenario but the shinners needn't bother shooting their mothers to pick up a dozen or two handy seats.
Mayo will have won as many All-Irelands as they now have Connacht titles before either side would even think of a coalition.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 10, 2013, 12:20:19 AM
Quote from: Syferus on August 09, 2013, 10:43:28 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 09, 2013, 01:40:39 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 08, 2013, 10:58:55 PM
ahh.. at last its finally been said by one of the 'ruling class'. fianna fail's mary o rourke has said at a meeting in tyrone that the two major parties ie fine gael and fianna fail should join in coalition at the next election. sure why not? they are the same party after all. I've been saying it for yonks..

anything to prevent he shinners holding sway ::) they'ed sell their own mothers just to get power/money
I agree with you, me oul' son.
Them bloody shinners would shoot their own mothers just to get power/money. ;D
But, on the off chance that you're talking about FF/FG coming together, there's as much chance of that happening as there is of me becoming Pope.
For starters, half the cumanns and party officers around the country would get the bullet.
They wouldn't be able to pull strokes anymore or claim county council expenses.
Pope Lar would have issued his first edict by then, damning all of Tyrone to the deepest pits of hell. (Mind you, Roscommon might be on the hitlist too.)
Neither party is worth the full of me arse of burnt snow, as a good Donegal mate would put it but how many effin' effers would vote for a blueshirt candidate or vice versa?
The shinners wouldn't have to shoot their mothers to become the largest party in the state. Then the stroking and fiddling expenses would be as bad as ever. So why change anything?
Stuff "Mammy" O'Rourke. That oul' wan would do anything to get her mug shot into a paper.

I suppose Ballagh will survive your papal edict given you'll have appropriated it to the wrong county?
Nah, Guess where the new Vatican is gonna be?
(http://whitehouse.ie/newVatican.png)


Bet you got it right first time, clever boy. ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 10, 2013, 07:14:03 AM
the fact that coalition has been mentioned by a party stalwart in the first place especially ff  'our lords and masters' is an indication that neither party believes that they will be able to form a government come the next election without the help of sinn fein. since recent history shows that entering into power with either party is the end of your career in politics eg the greens, labour, pd's  I doubt that sinn fein would consider the prospect without cast iron preconditions for fianna fail and not at all with fine gael. with regards coalition with ff I wouldn't expect it to last very long because of the virtual criminality that is the hallmark of ff governments in power.

on the other hand fianna gael would contain all that poison in one entity exposing the nature of these gangsters once and for all it could be a blessing in disguise. more pain for paddy  ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 10, 2013, 01:33:04 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 10, 2013, 07:14:03 AM
the fact that coalition has been mentioned by a party stalwart in the first place especially ff  'our lords and masters' is an indication that neither party believes that they will be able to form a government come the next election without the help of sinn fein. since recent history shows that entering into power with either party is the end of your career in politics eg the greens, labour, pd's  I doubt that sinn fein would consider the prospect without cast iron preconditions for fianna fail and not at all with fine gael. with regards coalition with ff I wouldn't expect it to last very long because of the virtual criminality that is the hallmark of ff governments in power.

on the other hand fianna gael would contain all that poison in one entity exposing the nature of these gangsters once and for all it could be a blessing in disguise. more pain for paddy  ::)

'Twas often said of "Mammy" O'Rourke that the softest thing abut her was her teeth.
That dame isn't just a pretty face and I'd be wary of taking anything she has to say for what it seems to be at first sight.
FF and FG may fight away all day and every day for the benefit of their loyal followers but neither will let anyone else share the fun.
Okay, one or the other may accept help from Labour to form a coalition but they both know damn well that Labour won't pose any long term threat to them and their monopoly on power and privilege.
Labour has gone into government with both parties on a number of occasions and, each time it did, it got hammered at the next general election.  I would take it as 100% certain that Labour will lose more than half of it's present seats at the next general election.
That's always been the way and I can't see it changing anytime soon.
Labour will take a day at the seaside and spend a week in the bog in order to get into power from time to time.
If FF/FG keep banging away on the Civil War drum, each of them will get their "core" voters out. If they ever coalesced, both could expect mass defections from their ranks.
We don't have a "general" election system in the first place. In reality we have 42 separate mini elections where local issues are often more important than national ones.
Plus, Irish voters are notoriously conservative. FF and FG have the resources to put candidates up in every election and both know in advance the size of the swing needed one way or the other to either give them an extra seat or to lose them one.
A national swing of 3% one way or the other could see up to 60 seats being affected.
With this sort of volatility, neither wants a new kid on the block to spoil their party.
One side has let the other form a minority administration several times in the past rather than letting any other party make serious permanent gains.
Labour or the Shinners would need to be able to field several candidates in each constituency to have a hope of becoming a major player in the field.
That ain't gonna happen any time soon.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on August 10, 2013, 04:19:00 PM
Lawnseed, would you like to buy this?

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/O_Connell_bridge.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on August 10, 2013, 04:58:02 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 10, 2013, 07:14:03 AM
the fact that coalition has been mentioned by a party stalwart in the first place especially ff  'our lords and masters' is an indication that neither party believes that they will be able to form a government come the next election without the help of sinn fein.
To be honest, i'd imagine FF and FG (as an opposition) would consider tolerating a minority government rather accommodate coalition with SF.

Quote from: lawnseed on August 10, 2013, 07:14:03 AM
since recent history shows that entering into power with either party is the end of your career in politics eg the greens, labour, pd's  I doubt that sinn fein would consider the prospect without cast iron preconditions for fianna fail and not at all with fine gael.
The idea that SF would manage what none of the other minority parties have managed is laughable. If they go into government as a minority partner, they'll get a few of their own policies, but be forced to support the majority party in passing their policies. That's the simple reality.

Quote from: lawnseed on August 10, 2013, 07:14:03 AM
with regards coalition with ff I wouldn't expect it to last very long because of the virtual criminality that is the hallmark of ff governments in power.
It's uplifting to hear this new found regard for law and order from republicans. We've come a long way.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on August 10, 2013, 05:48:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 10, 2013, 04:58:02 PM
It's uplifting to hear this new found regard for law and order from republicans. We've come a long way.
;D
I presume diesel laundering and all types of smuggling will come to a sudden end if/when SF take over  ::) ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 10, 2013, 07:48:14 PM
If you have any information re fuel smuggling pass it on to the law. That will stop you having to talk
Crap.
If the fuel was being hauled south the gov would stop it in seconds as it is its a nice little earner for them.
They could stop foot and mouth in hours. Although foot in mouth seems to be endemic
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on August 10, 2013, 08:18:23 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 10, 2013, 07:48:14 PM
If you have any information re fuel smuggling pass it on to the law.
Other than knowing it couldn't exist without your lot allowing it  ;) I have no further info.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 11, 2013, 09:02:08 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 10, 2013, 08:18:23 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 10, 2013, 07:48:14 PM
If you have any information re fuel smuggling pass it on to the law.
Other than knowing it couldn't exist without your lot allowing it  ;) I have no further info.
alright.. where does all the fuel come from? answer.. the fuel terminal in Dublin docks. how many roads are there out of the fuel terminal? answer.. one. how many customs officers would it take to stop/patrol it? answer maybe two so the other guy could get tea and use the loo. the biggest beneficiaries of fuel smuggling are the fuel companies and the Irish government.
do you think its an accident that the price of fuel in the 26 shadows the north always by about 8p/litre cheaper. most hauliers fill up in the 26 usually enough to last all week. for a truck doing cross channel that could be up to 1800 litres a week @ 1.40/litre most of which is tax. multiply that by thousands not to mention cars, vans, buses etc. hence Sammy Wilsons charge that the 26 government were "stealing our money" I didn't hear noonan deny it he hid

some day I'm gonna come over there and take you out of that bog where you spend your days dreaming like some kind of Amish turf cutter and take you out to see the real world.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 11, 2013, 09:02:08 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 10, 2013, 08:18:23 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 10, 2013, 07:48:14 PM
If you have any information re fuel smuggling pass it on to the law.
Other than knowing it couldn't exist without your lot allowing it  ;) I have no further info.
alright.. where does all the fuel come from? answer.. the fuel terminal in Dublin docks. how many roads are there out of the fuel terminal? answer.. one. how many customs officers would it take to stop/patrol it? answer maybe two so the other guy could get tea and use the loo. the biggest beneficiaries of fuel smuggling are the fuel companies and the Irish government.
do you think its an accident that the price of fuel in the 26 shadows the north always by about 8p/litre cheaper. most hauliers fill up in the 26 usually enough to last all week. for a truck doing cross channel that could be up to 1800 litres a week @ 1.40/litre most of which is tax. multiply that by thousands not to mention cars, vans, buses etc. hence Sammy Wilsons charge that the 26 government were "stealing our money" I didn't hear noonan deny it he hid

some day I'm gonna come over there and take you out of that bog where you spend your days dreaming like some kind of Amish turf cutter and take you out to see the real world.

Can we tax your vechicles at that point too for using our roads? Lawnseed SF will not be in government in Ireland (Republic of) in the next 50 years.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Lawnseed SF will not be in government in Ireland (Republic of) in the next 50 years.

I wouldn't rule out a FF/SF coalition after the next election.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Lawnseed SF will not be in government in Ireland (Republic of) in the next 50 years.

I wouldn't rule out a FF/SF coalition after the next election.

Everyone else will, though.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 10:02:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Lawnseed SF will not be in government in Ireland (Republic of) in the next 50 years.

I wouldn't rule out a FF/SF coalition after the next election.

Everyone else will, though.

Suppose you're right, Enda is the most popular leader in the world, ever. The economy is in good health, likewise the health service and the schools, unemployment is way below the E.U. average and the housing market is making a slow but steady recovery.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 10:42:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 10:02:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Lawnseed SF will not be in government in Ireland (Republic of) in the next 50 years.

I wouldn't rule out a FF/SF coalition after the next election.

Everyone else will, though.

Suppose you're right, Enda is the most popular leader in the world, ever. The economy is in good health, likewise the health service and the schools, unemployment is way below the E.U. average and the housing market is making a slow but steady recovery.

As opposed to SF's discount store populism? Beyond any concerns about going into coalition with a party that has 'links' (as in their leaders ran the bloody show) to paramilitary groups there's plenty of ideological reasons FF, Labour and FG won't touch SF.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 11, 2013, 11:10:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 10:42:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 10:02:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Lawnseed SF will not be in government in Ireland (Republic of) in the next 50 years.

I wouldn't rule out a FF/SF coalition after the next election.

Everyone else will, though.

Suppose you're right, Enda is the most popular leader in the world, ever. The economy is in good health, likewise the health service and the schools, unemployment is way below the E.U. average and the housing market is making a slow but steady recovery.

As opposed to SF's discount store populism? Beyond any concerns about going into coalition with a party that has 'links' (as in their leaders ran the bloody show) to paramilitary groups there's plenty of ideological reasons FF, Labour and FG won't touch SF.
I supposed the fact that many ff and fg tds attended the first dail sessions carrying guns.. but they were good guns weren't they ::)

putting ff and fg together is logical they are and always have been the same party. they both have the same policies... all pigs on the one sow the sooner the better
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 11, 2013, 11:10:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 10:42:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 10:02:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Lawnseed SF will not be in government in Ireland (Republic of) in the next 50 years.

I wouldn't rule out a FF/SF coalition after the next election.

Everyone else will, though.

Suppose you're right, Enda is the most popular leader in the world, ever. The economy is in good health, likewise the health service and the schools, unemployment is way below the E.U. average and the housing market is making a slow but steady recovery.

As opposed to SF's discount store populism? Beyond any concerns about going into coalition with a party that has 'links' (as in their leaders ran the bloody show) to paramilitary groups there's plenty of ideological reasons FF, Labour and FG won't touch SF.
I supposed the fact that many ff and fg tds attended the first dail sessions carrying guns.. but they were good guns weren't they ::)

putting ff and fg together is logical they are and always have been the same party. they both have the same policies... all pigs on the one sow the sooner the better

Ah, they did indeed, although they weren't FF or FG at the time and they carried out their share of Northern Bank heists and Jerry McCabe murders as well. But that was about 80/90 years ago and people nowadays have no appetite for the shinners coming along and re-inventing that particular wheel all over again.
I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you.
Once upon a time FF and FG get were fairly good at intimidating voters and voting twice with cards picked up from old folks' homes and the likes but things are a lot stricter now.
This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 12, 2013, 01:02:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 11, 2013, 11:10:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 10:42:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 10:02:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Lawnseed SF will not be in government in Ireland (Republic of) in the next 50 years.

I wouldn't rule out a FF/SF coalition after the next election.

Everyone else will, though.

Suppose you're right, Enda is the most popular leader in the world, ever. The economy is in good health, likewise the health service and the schools, unemployment is way below the E.U. average and the housing market is making a slow but steady recovery.

As opposed to SF's discount store populism? Beyond any concerns about going into coalition with a party that has 'links' (as in their leaders ran the bloody show) to paramilitary groups there's plenty of ideological reasons FF, Labour and FG won't touch SF.
I supposed the fact that many ff and fg tds attended the first dail sessions carrying guns.. but they were good guns weren't they ::)

putting ff and fg together is logical they are and always have been the same party. they both have the same policies... all pigs on the one sow the sooner the better

Ah, they did indeed, although they weren't FF or FG at the time and they carried out their share of Northern Bank heists and Jerry McCabe murders as well. But that was about 80/90 years ago and people nowadays have no appetite for the shinners coming along and re-inventing that particular wheel all over again.
I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you.
Once upon a time FF and FG get were fairly good at intimidating voters and voting twice with cards picked up from old folks' homes and the likes but things are a lot stricter now.
This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.
so once a certain period of time passes murder becomes ok? how long? 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 01:09:59 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 12, 2013, 01:02:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 11, 2013, 11:10:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 10:42:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 10:02:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Lawnseed SF will not be in government in Ireland (Republic of) in the next 50 years.

I wouldn't rule out a FF/SF coalition after the next election.

Everyone else will, though.

Suppose you're right, Enda is the most popular leader in the world, ever. The economy is in good health, likewise the health service and the schools, unemployment is way below the E.U. average and the housing market is making a slow but steady recovery.

As opposed to SF's discount store populism? Beyond any concerns about going into coalition with a party that has 'links' (as in their leaders ran the bloody show) to paramilitary groups there's plenty of ideological reasons FF, Labour and FG won't touch SF.
I supposed the fact that many ff and fg tds attended the first dail sessions carrying guns.. but they were good guns weren't they ::)

putting ff and fg together is logical they are and always have been the same party. they both have the same policies... all pigs on the one sow the sooner the better

Ah, they did indeed, although they weren't FF or FG at the time and they carried out their share of Northern Bank heists and Jerry McCabe murders as well. But that was about 80/90 years ago and people nowadays have no appetite for the shinners coming along and re-inventing that particular wheel all over again.
I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you.
Once upon a time FF and FG get were fairly good at intimidating voters and voting twice with cards picked up from old folks' homes and the likes but things are a lot stricter now.
This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.
so once a certain period of time passes murder becomes ok? how long?
Forever I guess.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 12, 2013, 04:25:17 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 01:09:59 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 12, 2013, 01:02:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 11, 2013, 11:10:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 10:42:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 10:02:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Lawnseed SF will not be in government in Ireland (Republic of) in the next 50 years.

I wouldn't rule out a FF/SF coalition after the next election.

Everyone else will, though.

Suppose you're right, Enda is the most popular leader in the world, ever. The economy is in good health, likewise the health service and the schools, unemployment is way below the E.U. average and the housing market is making a slow but steady recovery.

As opposed to SF's discount store populism? Beyond any concerns about going into coalition with a party that has 'links' (as in their leaders ran the bloody show) to paramilitary groups there's plenty of ideological reasons FF, Labour and FG won't touch SF.
I supposed the fact that many ff and fg tds attended the first dail sessions carrying guns.. but they were good guns weren't they ::)

putting ff and fg together is logical they are and always have been the same party. they both have the same policies... all pigs on the one sow the sooner the better

Ah, they did indeed, although they weren't FF or FG at the time and they carried out their share of Northern Bank heists and Jerry McCabe murders as well. But that was about 80/90 years ago and people nowadays have no appetite for the shinners coming along and re-inventing that particular wheel all over again.
I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you.
Once upon a time FF and FG get were fairly good at intimidating voters and voting twice with cards picked up from old folks' homes and the likes but things are a lot stricter now.
This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.
so once a certain period of time passes murder becomes ok? how long?
Forever I guess.

SF never wanted in the Irish state, now jog on back to administering British Rule in the north east of our island.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 12, 2013, 04:33:36 AM
Sinn Fein literally didn't want the Irish state itself in the first place. Bad lovin' comin' back and bitin' a playa in the ass, if you will.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 12, 2013, 07:08:40 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 12, 2013, 04:25:17 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 01:09:59 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 12, 2013, 01:02:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 11, 2013, 11:10:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 10:42:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 10:02:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Lawnseed SF will not be in government in Ireland (Republic of) in the next 50 years.

I wouldn't rule out a FF/SF coalition after the next election.

Everyone else will, though.

Suppose you're right, Enda is the most popular leader in the world, ever. The economy is in good health, likewise the health service and the schools, unemployment is way below the E.U. average and the housing market is making a slow but steady recovery.

As opposed to SF's discount store populism? Beyond any concerns about going into coalition with a party that has 'links' (as in their leaders ran the bloody show) to paramilitary groups there's plenty of ideological reasons FF, Labour and FG won't touch SF.
I supposed the fact that many ff and fg tds attended the first dail sessions carrying guns.. but they were good guns weren't they ::)

putting ff and fg together is logical they are and always have been the same party. they both have the same policies... all pigs on the one sow the sooner the better

Ah, they did indeed, although they weren't FF or FG at the time and they carried out their share of Northern Bank heists and Jerry McCabe murders as well. But that was about 80/90 years ago and people nowadays have no appetite for the shinners coming along and re-inventing that particular wheel all over again.
I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you.
Once upon a time FF and FG get were fairly good at intimidating voters and voting twice with cards picked up from old folks' homes and the likes but things are a lot stricter now.
This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.
so once a certain period of time passes murder becomes ok? how long?
Forever I guess.

SF never wanted in the Irish state, now jog on back to administering British Rule in the north east of our island.
as opposed to sliveen rule? that must be why 60% of nordies are happy with the status quo. that's why 'fiannagael' is good idea get the disease in the one body and identify it, then get rid of it
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 12, 2013, 08:00:11 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 12, 2013, 07:08:40 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 12, 2013, 04:25:17 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 01:09:59 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 12, 2013, 01:02:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 11, 2013, 11:10:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 10:42:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 10:02:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Lawnseed SF will not be in government in Ireland (Republic of) in the next 50 years.

I wouldn't rule out a FF/SF coalition after the next election.

Everyone else will, though.

Suppose you're right, Enda is the most popular leader in the world, ever. The economy is in good health, likewise the health service and the schools, unemployment is way below the E.U. average and the housing market is making a slow but steady recovery.

As opposed to SF's discount store populism? Beyond any concerns about going into coalition with a party that has 'links' (as in their leaders ran the bloody show) to paramilitary groups there's plenty of ideological reasons FF, Labour and FG won't touch SF.
I supposed the fact that many ff and fg tds attended the first dail sessions carrying guns.. but they were good guns weren't they ::)

putting ff and fg together is logical they are and always have been the same party. they both have the same policies... all pigs on the one sow the sooner the better

Ah, they did indeed, although they weren't FF or FG at the time and they carried out their share of Northern Bank heists and Jerry McCabe murders as well. But that was about 80/90 years ago and people nowadays have no appetite for the shinners coming along and re-inventing that particular wheel all over again.
I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you.
Once upon a time FF and FG get were fairly good at intimidating voters and voting twice with cards picked up from old folks' homes and the likes but things are a lot stricter now.
This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.
so once a certain period of time passes murder becomes ok? how long?
Forever I guess.

SF never wanted in the Irish state, now jog on back to administering British Rule in the north east of our island.
as opposed to sliveen rule? that must be why 60% of nordies are happy with the status quo. that's why 'fiannagael' is good idea get the disease in the one body and identify it, then get rid of it

How you see Sinn Fein
(http://www.unicornjorge.com/Gallery13/maiden_in_white.jpg)

How the Irish electorate see Sinn Fein
(http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/CoD-zombies.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 08:21:36 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 12, 2013, 04:25:17 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 01:09:59 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 12, 2013, 01:02:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 11, 2013, 11:10:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 10:42:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 10:02:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Lawnseed SF will not be in government in Ireland (Republic of) in the next 50 years.

I wouldn't rule out a FF/SF coalition after the next election.

Everyone else will, though.

Suppose you're right, Enda is the most popular leader in the world, ever. The economy is in good health, likewise the health service and the schools, unemployment is way below the E.U. average and the housing market is making a slow but steady recovery.

As opposed to SF's discount store populism? Beyond any concerns about going into coalition with a party that has 'links' (as in their leaders ran the bloody show) to paramilitary groups there's plenty of ideological reasons FF, Labour and FG won't touch SF.
I supposed the fact that many ff and fg tds attended the first dail sessions carrying guns.. but they were good guns weren't they ::)

putting ff and fg together is logical they are and always have been the same party. they both have the same policies... all pigs on the one sow the sooner the better

Ah, they did indeed, although they weren't FF or FG at the time and they carried out their share of Northern Bank heists and Jerry McCabe murders as well. But that was about 80/90 years ago and people nowadays have no appetite for the shinners coming along and re-inventing that particular wheel all over again.
I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you.
Once upon a time FF and FG get were fairly good at intimidating voters and voting twice with cards picked up from old folks' homes and the likes but things are a lot stricter now.
This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.
so once a certain period of time passes murder becomes ok? how long?
Forever I guess.

SF never wanted in the Irish state, now jog on back to administering British Rule in the north east of our island.

Awwww Lawnseed, don't be bringing that issue up. Don't ya know that's the one that ties our southern friends in knots. I wouldn't be expecting any detailed answers!!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 09:56:22 AM
Lawnseed, I'll give you credit for the way you stick to your beliefs but you're flying in the face of reality if you think SF are going to become a major player on the political scene down here.
Magoo's pictures (just above) sum things up nicely.
Right now, Gerry and his friends have about 20% support in opinion polls and  so at the next general election, they should be poised to pick up at least 20% of Dail seats. That's seems grand until you realise that this support is not spread evenly across the country.
Areas like Finglas with serious social issues, could give SF 50% or more in an opinion poll so that also seems grand, doesn't it?
But it doesn't work that way. The percentage turn out at the polls in those regions  is way below the national average so SF would get a lot less than 50% o the first preference votes in a general election anytime soon.
A FF or FG candidate with less no.1 votes than a shinner could still beat him/her when lower preference votes are counted. SF needs a lot of no.1s to stay in the race as they generally get very low vote transfers from the other parties. 

So a FG voter is more likely to give a no. 3 or 4 to FF or Labour than SF.
Same goes for the other parties' supporters.
SF did very well in the last GE but most of their successful candidates just managed to take the last seat in their constituencies.
I believe that they will lose more than they will gain in the next one. That's because the bigger parties will target those seats and the chances are that one or other will be able to use astute vote management to capture the final seat.
FF for example was able to take 2 out of 3 seats in tmy own area for a number of elections before the last one. Sean Haughey worked on half of the constituency and Ivor Callelly concentrated on the other.
FF ran a third candidate every time who canvassed everywhere. This one was never going to get elected but most of his no.2s and 3s went to the others and allowed them to take the second and third seat every time.
Can't see SF being able to do this in any constituency any time soon.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 10:34:36 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 08:21:36 AM

Awwww Lawnseed, don't be bringing that issue up. Don't ya know that's the one that ties our southern friends in knots. I wouldn't be expecting any detailed answers!!!

Ah Jaysus, lads like you and lawnseed will never take the hint.
This isn't Andytown or the Bogside; down here we do things differently.
Sending Marty down to contest the last presidential election wasn't a clever move.

The feckin' eejit brought a bunch of heavies from Derry along to act as bodyguards. They wouldn't be out of place in an Al Capone movie.
We have enough hoodlums of our own to keep us going.
His campaign was run by heads he brought along with him and the SF organisation down here didn't get a look in.
Even Gerry was kept in the background and I can't recall seeing him on the same platform as Marty from start to finish. The whole charade was a PR disaster from start to finish.
If that' the best you lot can offer us, I think we'd be better off sticking with the bunch of assholes we have already.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 11:05:09 AM
That's got f all to do with the point Lawnseed raised. But I'm not surprised that you decided to attack SF rather than try and deal with your own murky past. Best to remember everything as rosey eh? But sure, enough time's passed to forget about it!!  ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on August 12, 2013, 11:11:57 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 10:34:36 AM

Ah Jaysus, lads like you and lawnseed will never take the hint.
This isn't Andytown or the Bogside; down here we do things differently.
Sending Marty down to contest the last presidential election wasn't a clever move.

The feckin' eejit brought a bunch of heavies from Derry along to act as bodyguards. They wouldn't be out of place in an Al Capone movie.
We have enough hoodlums of our own to keep us going.
His campaign was run by heads he brought along with him and the SF organisation down here didn't get a look in.
Even Gerry was kept in the background and I can't recall seeing him on the same platform as Marty from start to finish. The whole charade was a PR disaster from start to finish.
If that' the best you lot can offer us, I think we'd be better off sticking with the bunch of assholes we have already.

"Down here we do things different".
"Sending marty down"
"The best you lot can offer us"

Partitionist horseshit.

As for the talk of McGuinness having Al Capone style bodyguards....well, lets just say you are the perfect example of what I referred to over on the Sindo thread. I suppose now that they said Gerry Adams travelled in a car with dark windows and that drug lords sometimes do too, that you will be telling us all that Adams is obviously an evil nordie drug lord? The nonsense about the north being a different country and about McGuinness' bodyguards reminds me of a very "impartial" report on RTE radio during the presidential election campaign where the reporter said McGuinness "seemed like he knew nothing about the south" and referred to him having "minders" and "wondered were they armed". In contrast the reporter who followed Sean Gallagher referred to him having an "entourage" and that it was "like being with the Messiah".  ::) As I said this morning some people don't even seem to realise when they are being led by the nose by the Dublin media.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 12, 2013, 11:32:13 AM
When ye convince a majority of people in the six counties to join the republic you can call the above partitionist but until that happens it's called living in the real world and not the one where everyone in Ireland has Bobby Sands' flags flying in their back gardens. Politically north and south are very different animals.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on August 12, 2013, 11:45:43 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 11:05:09 AM
That's got f all to do with the point Lawnseed raised. But I'm not surprised that you decided to attack SF rather than try and deal with your own murky past. Best to remember everything as rosey eh? But sure, enough time's passed to forget about it!!  ::)

Lar's murky past? Brilliant! Can you put it all up here before tonight. There's not much on the telly.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 11:47:13 AM
Quote from: Hardy on August 12, 2013, 11:45:43 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 11:05:09 AM
That's got f all to do with the point Lawnseed raised. But I'm not surprised that you decided to attack SF rather than try and deal with your own murky past. Best to remember everything as rosey eh? But sure, enough time's passed to forget about it!!  ::)

Lar's murky past? Brilliant! Can you put it all up here before tonight. There's not much on the telly.

Sure it's his own to tell....
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on August 12, 2013, 12:16:27 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 12, 2013, 11:32:13 AM
When ye convince a majority of people in the six counties to join the republic you can call the above partitionist but until that happens it's called living in the real world and not the one where everyone in Ireland has Bobby Sands' flags flying in their back gardens. Politically north and south are very different animals.

The Presidency isn't political and the post I replied to was not even political. It was just "you lot" and us. Partitionist mentality.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 01:37:06 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 12, 2013, 11:11:57 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 10:34:36 AM

Ah Jaysus, lads like you and lawnseed will never take the hint.
This isn't Andytown or the Bogside; down here we do things differently.
Sending Marty down to contest the last presidential election wasn't a clever move.

The feckin' eejit brought a bunch of heavies from Derry along to act as bodyguards. They wouldn't be out of place in an Al Capone movie.
We have enough hoodlums of our own to keep us going.
His campaign was run by heads he brought along with him and the SF organisation down here didn't get a look in.
Even Gerry was kept in the background and I can't recall seeing him on the same platform as Marty from start to finish. The whole charade was a PR disaster from start to finish.
If that' the best you lot can offer us, I think we'd be better off sticking with the bunch of assholes we have already.

"Down here we do things different".
"Sending marty down"
"The best you lot can offer us"

Partitionist horseshit.

As for the talk of McGuinness having Al Capone style bodyguards....well, lets just say you are the perfect example of what I referred to over on the Sindo thread. I suppose now that they said Gerry Adams travelled in a car with dark windows and that drug lords sometimes do too, that you will be telling us all that Adams is obviously an evil nordie drug lord? The nonsense about the north being a different country and about McGuinness' bodyguards reminds me of a very "impartial" report on RTE radio during the presidential election campaign where the reporter said McGuinness "seemed like he knew nothing about the south" and referred to him having "minders" and "wondered were they armed". In contrast the reporter who followed Sean Gallagher referred to him having an "entourage" and that it was "like being with the Messiah".  ::) As I said this morning some people don't even seem to realise when they are being led by the nose by the Dublin media.

Christ, you're some tulip!
You're scattering strawman fallacies around like snuff at a wedding.
You can "just say" what you like and "suppose" to your heart's content but I'll only back up what I say; not what you infer.
Every time McGuinness made a speech in public he had four to five large gentlemen in close attendance. Each was built like a block shithouse; each stared straight ahead and neither smiled or spoke to anyone else while Marty pedalled his vision of what the Republic needs to thrive and prosper.
I don't give the proverbial f**k about anything anyone had to say about Sean Gallagher; let's stick with the man I mentioned and that's Martin McGuinness.
What I have to say about him is not supposition or blind prejudice; there are plenty of reports in the public domain to corroborate what I say.
The "impartial" reporter you sneer at  was only echoing the sentiments of many although, to be fair, I don't recall anyone asking Marty if his heavies were armed.
But he did have a posse of minders wherever he went and he failed to address issues of immediate concern to us.
Look, I'll have a sporting bet with you. Plenty of Marty's guff can be found in online archives, right?
For every one you come up with that shows Marty addressed issues that were relevant to the matter in hand, (ie the presidential election and the role of a President in office) I'll come back with two to show he hadn't a clue about a president's powers and constraints while in office.

I brought up the matter of the presidential in the first place to point out to lawnseed and his buddy that they hadn't a notion about politics down here. If Marty was talking through his anal orifice, what hope have the rest of you when youse try to lecture us?
BTW, I believe McG is doing a fine job in NI; his only "crime" to me is that he seems to assume that what works up there will work also down here.
I'll repeat once more than Gerry didn't play a prominent part in Marty's election campaign; neither did any other prominent shinner down here.  All PR, press releases etc. were handled by people with impeccable Derry accents.
The difference between us, me oul' buddy, is that I'm going by facts and you are drowning in seas of prejudice and half-truths all the way.
It's a bit rich that any shinner from the North would presume to lecture us about our low standards in high places.
Even FF at its best (worst?) never got so many dead out of their graves or emigrants to miraculously turn up on poling day to cast their votes.
We have enough problems as it is without having you provide us with a few more.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 11:05:09 AM
That's got f all to do with the point Lawnseed raised. But I'm not surprised that you decided to attack SF rather than try and deal with your own murky past. Best to remember everything as rosey eh? But sure, enough time's passed to forget about it!!  ::)
On the contrary, horse, it's got everything to do with it.
This is what I wrote and this is what I stand by:

This isn't Andytown or the Bogside; down here we do things differently.
Sending Marty down to contest the last presidential election wasn't a clever move

We don't use the same electioneering techniques to get the vote out as the shinners do in nationalist areas.
I thought I had put what I had to say in idiot-proof terms but I guess I'll  need to try a bit harder.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 01:09:59 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 12, 2013, 01:02:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 11, 2013, 11:10:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 10:42:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 10:02:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Lawnseed SF will not be in government in Ireland (Republic of) in the next 50 years.

I wouldn't rule out a FF/SF coalition after the next election.

Everyone else will, though.

Suppose you're right, Enda is the most popular leader in the world, ever. The economy is in good health, likewise the health service and the schools, unemployment is way below the E.U. average and the housing market is making a slow but steady recovery.

As opposed to SF's discount store populism? Beyond any concerns about going into coalition with a party that has 'links' (as in their leaders ran the bloody show) to paramilitary groups there's plenty of ideological reasons FF, Labour and FG won't touch SF.
I supposed the fact that many ff and fg tds attended the first dail sessions carrying guns.. but they were good guns weren't they ::)

putting ff and fg together is logical they are and always have been the same party. they both have the same policies... all pigs on the one sow the sooner the better

Ah, they did indeed, although they weren’t FF or FG at the time and they carried out their share of Northern Bank heists and Jerry McCabe murders as well. But that was about 80/90 years ago and people nowadays have no appetite for the shinners coming along and re-inventing that particular wheel all over again.
I don’t think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don’t have your first past the post model so it’s not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you.
Once upon a time FF and FG get were fairly good at intimidating voters and voting twice with cards picked up from old folks’ homes and the likes but things are a lot stricter now.
This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.
so once a certain period of time passes murder becomes ok? how long?
Forever I guess.

Bluff about all ya like Lar. How about you explain how long has to pass before Murder is OK? This is the aspect that i find completely nauseating, and indeed was the point I was highlighting. Instead of addressing the point in any depth you decided to go on a rant about SF "Coming down here" instead. Talk about misdirection!!

I hope that is idiot proof enough for you to understand?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 12, 2013, 02:34:50 PM
There's a big difference between your great-grandpa offing someone in the 1920s and you yourself doing it, lad.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 02:58:50 PM
To take Hardy's tactic, Neither me nor my grandfather "offed" anyone.

Say your grand da killed someone in the 1910's or 1920's, you'd agree that they shouldn't be let anywhere near politics / running a country ever again? Or if they were part of an organisation that did this, ditto? I just want to be clear.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on August 12, 2013, 03:02:20 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 02:58:50 PM
To take Hardy's tactic, Neither me nor my grandfather "offed" anyone.

Say your grand da killed someone in the 1910's or 1920's, you'd agree that they shouldn't be let anywhere near politics / running a country ever again? Or if they were part of an organisation that did this, ditto? I just want to be clear.




Where did I come into this? I don't have a murky past like Lar.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 03:07:03 PM
You have been tarnished by your interest in him. Murky pasts are contagious.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 03:46:36 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 01:09:59 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 12, 2013, 01:02:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 11, 2013, 11:10:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 10:42:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 10:02:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Lawnseed SF will not be in government in Ireland (Republic of) in the next 50 years.

I wouldn't rule out a FF/SF coalition after the next election.

Everyone else will, though.

Suppose you're right, Enda is the most popular leader in the world, ever. The economy is in good health, likewise the health service and the schools, unemployment is way below the E.U. average and the housing market is making a slow but steady recovery.

As opposed to SF's discount store populism? Beyond any concerns about going into coalition with a party that has 'links' (as in their leaders ran the bloody show) to paramilitary groups there's plenty of ideological reasons FF, Labour and FG won't touch SF.
I supposed the fact that many ff and fg tds attended the first dail sessions carrying guns.. but they were good guns weren't they ::)

putting ff and fg together is logical they are and always have been the same party. they both have the same policies... all pigs on the one sow the sooner the better

Ah, they did indeed, although they weren't FF or FG at the time and they carried out their share of Northern Bank heists and Jerry McCabe murders as well. But that was about 80/90 years ago and people nowadays have no appetite for the shinners coming along and re-inventing that particular wheel all over again.
I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you.
Once upon a time FF and FG get were fairly good at intimidating voters and voting twice with cards picked up from old folks' homes and the likes but things are a lot stricter now.
This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.
so once a certain period of time passes murder becomes ok? how long?
Forever I guess.

Bluff about all ya like Lar. How about you explain how long has to pass before Murder is OK? This is the aspect that i find completely nauseating, and indeed was the point I was highlighting. Instead of addressing the point in any depth you decided to go on a rant about SF "Coming down here" instead. Talk about misdirection!!

I hope that is idiot proof enough for you to understand?

TBH, I don't think I was the one who meandered off-topic in the first place.

I had already given an answer to a question lawnseed had still to ask.
Here it is once again:
".......... But that was about 80/90 years ago and people nowadays have no appetite for the shinners coming along and re-inventing that particular wheel all over again."

Didn't that already answer the question lawnseed chose to put to me in his reply? Obviously, he didn't bother to read what I had written. 

It seemed to me that, going by some of his previous posts, the poor lad didn't realise that we don't use the same electoral process that is used in NI. 
You might get away with what he had to say in NI, where the catchphrase,  "Vote early and often" was born and where both Unionists and Nationalists turned vote rigging and impersonation into art forms but it's not that easy to do either down here. So I put the following to him:

"I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you. "
Both Nally and you seem to resent the way I refer to "up there" and "down here."

Yet here you have lawnseed lecturing us about "sliveen politics" and telling us the lengths parties "down here" will go in order to prevent the shinners "holding sway."
He also posted this howler.
"ahh.. at last its finally been said by one of the 'ruling class'. fianna fail's mary o rourke has said at a meeting in tyrone that the two major parties ie fine gael and fianna fail should join in coalition at the next election."

Mary O'Rourke has about as much influence on FF strategy as I have.
She was shafted a long time ago. Mary has been known to come out with vindictive statement to embarrass the party leadership from time to time but that's about it.
Turkeys will vote for Christmas before FF and F agree to go into coalition. Each has too much to lose because of our PR voting system.
I also tried (helpfully) to explain why SF or indeed any other party without broad support from all sectors will find it hard to make gains under the same PR system.
Jaysus, I don't want to go through that again!

I hope that is idiot proof enough for you to understand. ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 03:55:01 PM
Not really, because your just saying that yeah our guys did that 80 odd years ago, but we've moved on. Well SF have moved on as well, and are now a political only party. So I'm asking you how long is it until they can distance themselves from their past just as you've done with the boys from 1920.

The rest of your post as Nally pointed out was complete Indo spoofing about bodygards and other such tripe to muddy the water.

It's not idiot proofing you need, it's an idiot filter for your posts.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 03:55:58 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 12, 2013, 03:02:20 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 02:58:50 PM
To take Hardy's tactic, Neither me nor my grandfather "offed" anyone.

Say your grand da killed someone in the 1910's or 1920's, you'd agree that they shouldn't be let anywhere near politics / running a country ever again? Or if they were part of an organisation that did this, ditto? I just want to be clear.




Where did I come into this? I don't have a murky past like Lar.
You're goddamn right.
My murky past is a lot murkier than your murky past.
My murky past great grandfather was a Fenian fanatic and he'd have shot every bloody Tan in sight if he could.
But he couldn't for a number of reasons.
Here they are in no particular order:
He didn't have a gun.
He was as blind as a bat.
There were no Tans about the place in his time.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 04:15:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 03:55:01 PM
Not really, because your just saying that yeah our guys did that 80 odd years ago, but we've moved on. Well SF have moved on as well, and are now a political only party. So I'm asking you how long is it until they can distance themselves from their past just as you've done with the boys from 1920.

The rest of your post as Nally pointed out was complete Indo spoofing about bodygards and other such tripe to muddy the water.

It's not idiot proofing you need, it's an idiot filter for your posts.

There are none so blind as those who cannot see...
Don't bother telling me what I'm saying and then going on to say something else. I never mentioned SF's involvement in the recent Troubles nor said that it would take years for them to be accepted anywhere.
I'd give Gerry, Marty & co great credit for laying down the gun in favour of the ballot box. Same of course applies to Paisley.

I didn't need the Indo to point out anything about Marty or anybody else. Anything at all "as Nally pointed out" will be well wide of reality. I'm saying Marty went on and on about what he's do as president when he hadn't a clue what he could or couldn't do if he won the election.
I've told Nally what I'm telling you now: Come up with an article from any source that shows Marty knew what he was talking about and I'll come back with two to show he was talking sh1te.
It's a bit rich for any of youse to tell any of us how to run our business when you've haven't a clue what you're on about.

You won't find too many of us "down here" lecturing you "up there" about how to conduct your affairs.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 04:23:48 PM
I pulled you up on one issue. Just in case your unsure, I'll quote it for you.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM

Ah, they did indeed, although they weren't FF or FG at the time and they carried out their share of Northern Bank heists and Jerry McCabe murders as well. But that was about 80/90 years ago and people nowadays have no appetite for the shinners coming along and re-inventing that particular wheel all over again.


Maybe I'm picking you up wrong, but would you like to enlighten me as to what this means?

Take your time.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on August 12, 2013, 05:15:44 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you.
In the interests of accuracy, FPTP only applies to Westminster elections. It's PR-STV for the Assembly, the same as the Dail.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 06:09:59 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 04:23:48 PM
I pulled you up on one issue. Just in case your unsure, I'll quote it for you.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM

Ah, they did indeed, although they weren't FF or FG at the time and they carried out their share of Northern Bank heists and Jerry McCabe murders as well. But that was about 80/90 years ago and people nowadays have no appetite for the shinners coming along and re-inventing that particular wheel all over again.


Maybe I'm picking you up wrong, but would you like to enlighten me as to what this means?

Take your time.
Sure, that's no problem. It's a reasonable request.


I wrote what you have quoted in response to one of lawnseed's posts.

I supposed the fact that many ff and fg tds attended the first dail sessions carrying guns.. but they were good guns weren't they ?

I pointed out to him that FF and FG weren't in existence when the first dail was convened. That may come across as nit picking but it also shows that poor lawnseed hadn't done his research.
Now, the Bolshies (Anti Treaty) and the (Free) Staters brought their guns to the Dail for many years afterwards and not just for the first session. Their main purpose was not to shoot anyone in particular but to protect themselves against any assassination attempts.
There were plenty who would shoot many of them if only they could.
It was real Wild West stuff back then.
Both sides sprung from the ranks of the Old IRA so there were very few policy differences between them. But the IRA of those times weren't all noble-minded patriots; not by a long shot; same as the 'Ra of recent times.
There were plenty of bank, post office and mail train robberies carried out as well as fighting the Brits and a lot of the money wasn't used to buy cartridges for their guns either.
More Irish people were killed by the old IRA than were killed by the Tans, special agents, Auxies or regular forces. Very few were collaborating with the Crown forces in any way; most were bumped off because the refused to pay protection money or because an IRA warlord in the are held a grudge against them and the likes.
Now, we put all of that behind us many years ago and for me and most other people there are no "good guns."
If SF can stick with constitutional policies and keep their guns out of politics, I'll be very happy. If they come up with realistic policies and show they are interested in democracy, they have as much right ass any other party to look for support anywhere they please.
But they are not going to be able to run the show here in the republic for many years to come if ever. I've given my reasons for saying this is in part due to our PR system. Another problem is that many down here aren't yet convinced that SF in the North has fully accepted that constitutional politics is the only way to go.
As long as splinter IRA groups remain active, the fear is that the Provos haven't really gone away.
So for lawnseed to come on here and tell us all that the shinners will transform the face of Irish politics if only we listen to their message is a bit ironic, given their own origin in violence. We've been that way before and don't want another dose of it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 06:11:56 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 12, 2013, 05:15:44 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you.
In the interests of accuracy, FPTP only applies to Westminster elections. It's PR-STV for the Assembly, the same as the Dail.

Sorry about that. I was only thinking of parliamentary elections when I wrote that as we don't have the likes of the Assembly down here.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on August 12, 2013, 07:37:44 PM
Lar, apart from the indo propaganda rehashing and the boogieman stories about how SF get their vote out in nationalist areas (I live in a nationalist area of the six counties and you don't, so I'll wager I have a better idea of the topic you speak of); what exactly do you think mcguinness didn't understand about the role of the presidency, considering it is a meet-and-greet, public appearances, head of state type role, which is a a role he has more experience in than the other candidates had put together? For a man who says he only talks in bare facts, you give an awful lot of fanciful opinions grounded in nothing but anti-SF indo/rte propeganda about the big bad SF boogiemen and all their evil deeds.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 12, 2013, 08:32:23 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 12, 2013, 07:37:44 PM
Lar, apart from the indo propaganda rehashing and the boogieman stories about how SF get their vote out in nationalist areas (I live in a nationalist area of the six counties and you don't, so I'll wager I have a better idea of the topic you speak of); what exactly do you think mcguinness didn't understand about the role of the presidency, considering it is a meet-and-greet, public appearances, head of state type role, which is a a role he has more experience in than the other candidates had put together? For a man who says he only talks in bare facts, you give an awful lot of fanciful opinions grounded in nothing but anti-SF indo/rte propeganda about the big bad SF boogiemen and all their evil deeds.

You're hardly an impartial observer, Nally.

Y'see, I think for a big swathe of people in the six counties SF are the best thing going right now in terms of providing a voice on the future of the north but down here the situation is very different and even gobeens are going to be more palatable to the majority of the electorate than SF will be for the foreseeable future. You can blame the Sindo or RTE all you want you want and try to make SF victims of some huge conspiracy to discredit them but people here genuinely do not want SF in government and nor will they be in government.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on August 12, 2013, 09:11:56 PM
Where are SF in the polls old bean. I believe they very well could be in the next government if they wish to be, unless some how you have a veto on it. I wouldn't vote for them but then I know a lot who would.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 09:19:13 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 12, 2013, 07:37:44 PM
Lar, apart from the indo propaganda rehashing and the boogieman stories about how SF get their vote out in nationalist areas (I live in a nationalist area of the six counties and you don't, so I'll wager I have a better idea of the topic you speak of); what exactly do you think mcguinness didn't understand about the role of the presidency, considering it is a meet-and-greet, public appearances, head of state type role, which is a a role he has more experience in than the other candidates had put together? For a man who says he only talks in bare facts, you give an awful lot of fanciful opinions grounded in nothing but anti-SF indo/rte propeganda about the big bad SF boogiemen and all their evil deeds.
Ah, there you go again, Nally; what I am saying call all be put down to  indo propaganda rehashing and boogieman stories, can it? I think you have a tendency to come out with broad generalisations and then glide on to your next subject without backing up what you just said. Nothing personal intended here btw –just an observation.
You see I don't read the bloody indo- can't stand the sight of it and if what I have to say tallies with what you see in the indo, there's a strong possibility that it's either co-incidence or that what we have to say is patently obvious.
As for the boogieman stories?
Are you saying that they're all untrue? I accept that someone in a nationalist area probably knows  what goes on better than I do but you didn't claim that SF don't do vote rigging.

Do you maintain that SF are/were never guilty of vote manipulation- or maybe just a little bit or what?
It seems HMG strongly believed that in the 1983 General Election, SF gained 25% of their support through "intimidation" and "personation".
You can read all about it here.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0801/465679-british-archives/

You can't put that down to propaganda of any sort since the cabinet document in question was confidential and has only been made public at the beginning of this month.
What do you have to say about it?
You ask me why I think McGuinness didn't understand the role of the presidency and then go on to give quite a good synopsis of presidential duties.
Trouble is I have already attempted to do so not once but twice.
You know what a president is supposed to do; Marty did not when he set about canvassing for the job. I can rely o personal recollections when I say this because I heard him speak twice and I'm also going by what I read, saw or heard in a number of media outlets.
McGuinness promised to set up a forum where interested parties and individuals could meet and discuss matters of interest to the nation. Then he reckoned he'd take the concerns of the forum members to government and pressure it into action to address the same issues.
That sounded grand but Marty soon found out that he could do nothing of the sort as a president may not intervene in political matters while in office.
That's just one goof up. There are plenty more.
I have already asked you to come up with one positive report on Marty's campaigning style and promised in return to come with two to show he hadn't a clue.
You can put it all down to "SF indo/rte propeganda about the big bad SF boogiemen and all their evil deeds if you like but I'm asking you to back up what you have to say.
Nothing personal you understand. It's just that I'd like to what you are basing your suppositions on.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on August 12, 2013, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 12, 2013, 09:11:56 PM
Where are SF in the polls old bean. I believe they very well could be in the next government if they wish to be, unless some how you have a veto on it. I wouldn't vote for them but then I know a lot who would.
Unless there's a major change in the political order, it won't be a decision for SF.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 13, 2013, 12:50:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 12, 2013, 08:21:36 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 12, 2013, 04:25:17 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 01:09:59 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 12, 2013, 01:02:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 11, 2013, 11:10:43 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 10:42:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 10:02:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 11, 2013, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 11, 2013, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
Lawnseed SF will not be in government in Ireland (Republic of) in the next 50 years.

I wouldn't rule out a FF/SF coalition after the next election.

Everyone else will, though.

Suppose you're right, Enda is the most popular leader in the world, ever. The economy is in good health, likewise the health service and the schools, unemployment is way below the E.U. average and the housing market is making a slow but steady recovery.

As opposed to SF's discount store populism? Beyond any concerns about going into coalition with a party that has 'links' (as in their leaders ran the bloody show) to paramilitary groups there's plenty of ideological reasons FF, Labour and FG won't touch SF.
I supposed the fact that many ff and fg tds attended the first dail sessions carrying guns.. but they were good guns weren't they ::)

putting ff and fg together is logical they are and always have been the same party. they both have the same policies... all pigs on the one sow the sooner the better

Ah, they did indeed, although they weren't FF or FG at the time and they carried out their share of Northern Bank heists and Jerry McCabe murders as well. But that was about 80/90 years ago and people nowadays have no appetite for the shinners coming along and re-inventing that particular wheel all over again.
I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you.
Once upon a time FF and FG get were fairly good at intimidating voters and voting twice with cards picked up from old folks' homes and the likes but things are a lot stricter now.
This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.
so once a certain period of time passes murder becomes ok? how long?
Forever I guess.

SF never wanted in the Irish state, now jog on back to administering British Rule in the north east of our island.

Awwww Lawnseed, don't be bringing that issue up. Don't ya know that's the one that ties our southern friends in knots. I wouldn't be expecting any detailed answers!!!

What detail do you want trueblue?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber to be in the government here.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on August 13, 2013, 02:55:46 PM
Most 26 Co Political parties up to the 1960s were all ran by Senior IRA figures ( although Dev like Gerry seemed to miss out on all the fighting).
However until the bright articulate types like Pearse Doherty become the leadership in SF they will struggle to get more than the dedicated SFs or protest vote.
By then they will simply have morphed into Labour circa mid 20th Century. :-\
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Canalman on August 13, 2013, 03:03:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 13, 2013, 02:55:46 PM
Most 26 Co Political parties up to the 1960s were all ran by Senior IRA figures ( although Dev like Gerry seemed to miss out on all the fighting).
However until the bright articulate types like Pearse Doherty become the leadership in SF they will struggle to get more than the dedicated SFs or protest vote.
By then they will simply have morphed into Labour circa mid 20th Century. :-\

To be fair to him deValera fought in the Easter Rising. Iirc his command inflicted more casualties on the British than any other that week. Unfounded rumours about his command  that week were afaik never proven to be true but politically motivated.
Correct to say he was in America for WoI but he certainly was around in the Civil War when he was target no 1 for the Free State forces . Don't think he would have been taken alive either............... probably would have been "shot while trying to escape" or killed in "mine clearing operations"
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber to be in the government here.

But the IRA is no more. Some members have an IRA history, but they've moved on to a democratic process. Same as the southern parties. So is it just time frame that's the issue here? Or is there a belief that the civil war in the south was more "acceptable" than the northern troubles. And if that is the case why?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on August 13, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber to be in the government here.

But the IRA is no more. Some members have an IRA history, but they've moved on to a democratic process. Same as the southern parties. So is it just time frame that's the issue here? Or is there a belief that the civil war in the south was more "acceptable" than the northern troubles. And if that is the case why?

The Civil War ended ninety years ago. All active participants are dead and no one has a first hand memory of it. That is not the case with the Troubles which are still very much fresh in the memory. Sinn Féin can point out that the gun has finally been removed from Irish politics but there will always be an easy retort for their political opponents in the 26 counties as long as the likes of Adams and Ferris are prominent in the Dáil.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 04:31:32 PM
I personally find that hard to believe DH. I don't think it's just a time frame thing. Dev didn't get the same stigma attached to him as what your attaching to Adams and ferris. So there has to be more to it than that.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on August 13, 2013, 05:57:32 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber particularly bitter lemon to be in the government here.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 06:35:45 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 13, 2013, 05:57:32 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber particularly bitter lemon to be in the government here.

That would make SF arsenic, Nally.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 13, 2013, 06:46:18 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

To be honest that 'detail' doesn't bother me one bit. Yes, I knew well which one you alluded to. A nice few people have murky pasts, but that, like the troubles is in the past, and I do believe that they are, (granted there will always be dissidents). However the media like to fall back on the old SF/IRA argument  "how could we let them in" mantra from time to time. Especially when the Shinners are doing well at the polls...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 13, 2013, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 13, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber to be in the government here.

But the IRA is no more. Some members have an IRA history, but they've moved on to a democratic process. Same as the southern parties. So is it just time frame that's the issue here? Or is there a belief that the civil war in the south was more "acceptable" than the northern troubles. And if that is the case why?

The Civil War ended ninety years ago. All active participants are dead and no one has a first hand memory of it. That is not the case with the Troubles which are still very much fresh in the memory. Sinn Féin can point out that the gun has finally been removed from Irish politics but there will always be an easy retort for their political opponents in the 26 counties as long as the likes of Adams and Ferris are prominent in the Dáil.
It did DH, but the fallout from it is still evident right up to this day.
Political opinion was deeply polarised after the fighting ended, and, to an extent, it still is.
The Civil War led to a divide between those who had fought together against their common enemy.
Four to five generations later, some people won't let go of old grudges handed on to them and who don't really know why the act this way. The parents did it, the grandparents did it and it comes naturally to them.
"Monkey see, monkey do."
Lots of northern nationalist feel sore that we in the south "didn't do something" to help them and I suppose that's natural. But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs.
If FF tried to do anything about anything while in power, FG would try to block it and when FG were in government the same applied in reverse. FF filled all types of state jobs with their supporters when they held the upper hand and FG did the same.
Even when WT Cosgrove, De Valera and all the major characters in the civil war died, the divide remained for many years after.
I'd say it was only around the time the GFA was signed that old barriers started to come down.
That's what the Civil War did to us and I'm afraid the shinner lads here may find it will take a long time more before SF is fully accepted as a constitutional party.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 13, 2013, 10:21:53 PM
Quote from: Canalman on August 13, 2013, 03:03:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 13, 2013, 02:55:46 PM
Most 26 Co Political parties up to the 1960s were all ran by Senior IRA figures ( although Dev like Gerry seemed to miss out on all the fighting).
However until the bright articulate types like Pearse Doherty become the leadership in SF they will struggle to get more than the dedicated SFs or protest vote.
By then they will simply have morphed into Labour circa mid 20th Century. :-\

To be fair to him deValera fought in the Easter Rising. Iirc his command inflicted more casualties on the British than any other that week. Unfounded rumours about his command  that week were afaik never proven to be true but politically motivated.
Correct to say he was in America for WoI but he certainly was around in the Civil War when he was target no 1 for the Free State forces . Don't think he would have been taken alive either............... probably would have been "shot while trying to escape" or killed in "mine clearing operations"

I never heard of such rumours. Could you elaborate?
I had a few chats with a lovely old lady whose mother had been nanny to the Gifford sisters and she (the mother) had great respect for Dev and the part he played in the Rising. I was told that he was held in great respect by his troops and that "he led by example."
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on August 13, 2013, 10:43:58 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 13, 2013, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 13, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber to be in the government here.

But the IRA is no more. Some members have an IRA history, but they've moved on to a democratic process. Same as the southern parties. So is it just time frame that's the issue here? Or is there a belief that the civil war in the south was more "acceptable" than the northern troubles. And if that is the case why?

The Civil War ended ninety years ago. All active participants are dead and no one has a first hand memory of it. That is not the case with the Troubles which are still very much fresh in the memory. Sinn Féin can point out that the gun has finally been removed from Irish politics but there will always be an easy retort for their political opponents in the 26 counties as long as the likes of Adams and Ferris are prominent in the Dáil.
It did DH, but the fallout from it is still evident right up to this day.
Political opinion was deeply polarised after the fighting ended, and, to an extent, it still is.
The Civil War led to a divide between those who had fought together against their common enemy.
Four to five generations later, some people won't let go of old grudges handed on to them and who don't really know why the act this way. The parents did it, the grandparents did it and it comes naturally to them.
"Monkey see, monkey do."
Lots of northern nationalist feel sore that we in the south "didn't do something" to help them and I suppose that's natural. But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs.
If FF tried to do anything about anything while in power, FG would try to block it and when FG were in government the same applied in reverse. FF filled all types of state jobs with their supporters when they held the upper hand and FG did the same.
Even when WT Cosgrove, De Valera and all the major characters in the civil war died, the divide remained for many years after.
I'd say it was only around the time the GFA was signed that old barriers started to come down.
That's what the Civil War did to us and I'm afraid the shinner lads here may find it will take a long time more before SF is fully accepted as a constitutional party.

Indeed. 1922 and 1923 were shrouded in silence until the last 25 years or so such was the deep rooted lasting bitterness of that period. The Civil War did not appear in the school curriculum and events like Ballyseedy were airbrushed from history.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on August 13, 2013, 11:23:58 PM
Given those points (and taking this a bit off the FG thread topic), what's the opinion of those in the south to suggestions of a 'truth commission' for NI?

Ignoring my opinion that it would never work - one side would never believe the other had told the whole truth etc. (and probably with good reason) - does the theory of the idea even work? Would it have made any difference to the animosity in the south post-Civil War if such a process had taken place? Would it be any more likely to prevent such divisions in NI in 90 years time?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on August 14, 2013, 10:55:00 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 13, 2013, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 13, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber to be in the government here.

But the IRA is no more. Some members have an IRA history, but they've moved on to a democratic process. Same as the southern parties. So is it just time frame that's the issue here? Or is there a belief that the civil war in the south was more "acceptable" than the northern troubles. And if that is the case why?

The Civil War ended ninety years ago. All active participants are dead and no one has a first hand memory of it. That is not the case with the Troubles which are still very much fresh in the memory. Sinn Féin can point out that the gun has finally been removed from Irish politics but there will always be an easy retort for their political opponents in the 26 counties as long as the likes of Adams and Ferris are prominent in the Dáil.
It did DH, but the fallout from it is still evident right up to this day.
Political opinion was deeply polarised after the fighting ended, and, to an extent, it still is.
The Civil War led to a divide between those who had fought together against their common enemy.
Four to five generations later, some people won't let go of old grudges handed on to them and who don't really know why the act this way. The parents did it, the grandparents did it and it comes naturally to them.
"Monkey see, monkey do."
Lots of northern nationalist feel sore that we in the south "didn't do something" to help them and I suppose that's natural. But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs.
If FF tried to do anything about anything while in power, FG would try to block it and when FG were in government the same applied in reverse. FF filled all types of state jobs with their supporters when they held the upper hand and FG did the same.
Even when WT Cosgrove, De Valera and all the major characters in the civil war died, the divide remained for many years after.
I'd say it was only around the time the GFA was signed that old barriers started to come down.
That's what the Civil War did to us and I'm afraid the shinner lads here may find it will take a long time more before SF is fully accepted as a constitutional party.

The south was as divided as the north during the troubles? Really???
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 01:00:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 13, 2013, 11:23:58 PM
Given those points (and taking this a bit off the FG thread topic), what's the opinion of those in the south to suggestions of a 'truth commission' for NI?

Ignoring my opinion that it would never work - one side would never believe the other had told the whole truth etc. (and probably with good reason) - does the theory of the idea even work? Would it have made any difference to the animosity in the south post-Civil War if such a process had taken place? Would it be any more likely to prevent such divisions in NI in 90 years time?

I couldn't see it working either.
There were too many parties involved in the conflict and the time frame is too long. On the nationalist side, I suppose most of the incidents involved the Provos in some way but on the Loyalist side there were acts carried out by the UDF, UDR, Red Hand Commandos amongst others, not to mention the many shadowy organisations whose identity was unknown but who were suspected of having links with the security forces.
The security forces would also have many questions to answer and it's hard to know what Stormont, Westminster and Dublin got up to during this period.
I regret having to say that many thousands of people in the north won't find closure before they go to their graves but will pass their sense of grief and bitterness on to the next generation and to many others to come.
People in the south haven't settled their differences yet but there were only two distinct parties involved- those for and those against the Treaty.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 02:16:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 14, 2013, 10:55:00 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 13, 2013, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 13, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber to be in the government here.

But the IRA is no more. Some members have an IRA history, but they've moved on to a democratic process. Same as the southern parties. So is it just time frame that's the issue here? Or is there a belief that the civil war in the south was more "acceptable" than the northern troubles. And if that is the case why?

The Civil War ended ninety years ago. All active participants are dead and no one has a first hand memory of it. That is not the case with the Troubles which are still very much fresh in the memory. Sinn Féin can point out that the gun has finally been removed from Irish politics but there will always be an easy retort for their political opponents in the 26 counties as long as the likes of Adams and Ferris are prominent in the Dáil.
It did DH, but the fallout from it is still evident right up to this day.
Political opinion was deeply polarised after the fighting ended, and, to an extent, it still is.
The Civil War led to a divide between those who had fought together against their common enemy.
Four to five generations later, some people won't let go of old grudges handed on to them and who don't really know why the act this way. The parents did it, the grandparents did it and it comes naturally to them.
"Monkey see, monkey do."
Lots of northern nationalist feel sore that we in the south "didn't do something" to help them and I suppose that's natural. But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs.
If FF tried to do anything about anything while in power, FG would try to block it and when FG were in government the same applied in reverse. FF filled all types of state jobs with their supporters when they held the upper hand and FG did the same.
Even when WT Cosgrove, De Valera and all the major characters in the civil war died, the divide remained for many years after.
I'd say it was only around the time the GFA was signed that old barriers started to come down.
That's what the Civil War did to us and I'm afraid the shinner lads here may find it will take a long time more before SF is fully accepted as a constitutional party.

The south was as divided as the north during the troubles? Really???

"Really" what?

There are still families that won't speak to or have any dealings with other families because of what happened 90 years ago.
About 20 years ago, I was seeking office in my teaching organisation. Two Mayo county councillors were members of the Mayo delegation to the convention where the voting took place.
One was Fine Gael and the other was Fianna Fail- if you follow me.
Both approached me the night before the voting and offered to give me a dig out.
Together we worked every restaurant and watering hole around Salthill and its surrounds and, believe me, there are lots of restaurants and watering holes around Salthill and its surrounds.
The two lads were far more used to the "press the flesh" stuff that I was and they had far more contacts amongst the delegates than I had.
(They were damn good canvassers too because I won the next day on a show of hands- no need for a count to be taken.)
We finished off in the bar o the hotel where all of us were staying. After (quite) a few drinks, we decided to stagger off to our beds. As we attempted to stand out, one turned to the other and said ,"Jaysus, do you know realise we can't be seen together in public again until this time next year?"
That was 70 years on from the Civil War and old wounds in Mayo hadn't healed by then. I  can tell you much of the old bitterness is still there and will be for a long time yet.
I don't know what criteria you use to measure degrees of bitterness but, down here, it wasn't a case of "ussuns" against "themmuns"
It was very often father v son and brother v brother  and you think we had an easier time that your lot??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 14, 2013, 02:22:41 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 02:16:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 14, 2013, 10:55:00 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 13, 2013, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 13, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber to be in the government here.

But the IRA is no more. Some members have an IRA history, but they've moved on to a democratic process. Same as the southern parties. So is it just time frame that's the issue here? Or is there a belief that the civil war in the south was more "acceptable" than the northern troubles. And if that is the case why?

The Civil War ended ninety years ago. All active participants are dead and no one has a first hand memory of it. That is not the case with the Troubles which are still very much fresh in the memory. Sinn Féin can point out that the gun has finally been removed from Irish politics but there will always be an easy retort for their political opponents in the 26 counties as long as the likes of Adams and Ferris are prominent in the Dáil.
It did DH, but the fallout from it is still evident right up to this day.
Political opinion was deeply polarised after the fighting ended, and, to an extent, it still is.
The Civil War led to a divide between those who had fought together against their common enemy.
Four to five generations later, some people won't let go of old grudges handed on to them and who don't really know why the act this way. The parents did it, the grandparents did it and it comes naturally to them.
"Monkey see, monkey do."
Lots of northern nationalist feel sore that we in the south "didn't do something" to help them and I suppose that's natural. But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs.
If FF tried to do anything about anything while in power, FG would try to block it and when FG were in government the same applied in reverse. FF filled all types of state jobs with their supporters when they held the upper hand and FG did the same.
Even when WT Cosgrove, De Valera and all the major characters in the civil war died, the divide remained for many years after.
I'd say it was only around the time the GFA was signed that old barriers started to come down.
That's what the Civil War did to us and I'm afraid the shinner lads here may find it will take a long time more before SF is fully accepted as a constitutional party.

The south was as divided as the north during the troubles? Really???

"Really" what?

There are still families that won't speak to or have any dealings with other families because of what happened 90 years ago.
About 20 years ago, I was seeking office in my teaching organisation. Two Mayo county councillors were members of the Mayo delegation to the convention where the voting took place.
One was Fine Gael and the other was Fianna Fail- if you follow me.
Both approached me the night before the voting and offered to give me a dig out.
Together we worked every restaurant and watering hole around Salthill and its surrounds and, believe me, there are lots of restaurants and watering holes around Salthill and its surrounds.
The two lads were far more used to the "press the flesh" stuff that I was and they had far more contacts amongst the delegates than I had.
(They were damn good canvassers too because I won the next day on a show of hands- no need for a count to be taken.)
We finished off in the bar o the hotel where all of us were staying. After (quite) a few drinks, we decided to stagger off to our beds. As we attempted to stand out, one turned to the other and said ,"Jaysus, do you know realise we can't be seen together in public again until this time next year?"
That was 70 years on from the Civil War and old wounds in Mayo hadn't healed by then. I  can tell you much of the old bitterness is still there and will be for a long time yet.
I don't know what criteria you use to measure degrees of bitterness but, down here, it wasn't a case of "ussuns" against "themmuns"
It was very often father v son and brother v brother  and you think we had an easier time that your lot??

I've a mate from Kerry, who after a few pints always tells stories about 2 of his great uncles, one a Free Stater the other a Die Hard and how they both sold each other out to the other side. If his stories are true, one was shot the other bate within an inch of his life. His family have been split since the Civil War (the lad is former FF fanatic, anti them now since he ended out of work for almost 2 years after their mismanagement of the economy, he is not pro-FG but begrudgingly says they are not as bad but still will never vote for them [or SF for that matter]).
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on August 14, 2013, 05:23:42 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 02:16:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 14, 2013, 10:55:00 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 13, 2013, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 13, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber to be in the government here.

But the IRA is no more. Some members have an IRA history, but they've moved on to a democratic process. Same as the southern parties. So is it just time frame that's the issue here? Or is there a belief that the civil war in the south was more "acceptable" than the northern troubles. And if that is the case why?

The Civil War ended ninety years ago. All active participants are dead and no one has a first hand memory of it. That is not the case with the Troubles which are still very much fresh in the memory. Sinn Féin can point out that the gun has finally been removed from Irish politics but there will always be an easy retort for their political opponents in the 26 counties as long as the likes of Adams and Ferris are prominent in the Dáil.
It did DH, but the fallout from it is still evident right up to this day.
Political opinion was deeply polarised after the fighting ended, and, to an extent, it still is.
The Civil War led to a divide between those who had fought together against their common enemy.
Four to five generations later, some people won't let go of old grudges handed on to them and who don't really know why the act this way. The parents did it, the grandparents did it and it comes naturally to them.
"Monkey see, monkey do."
Lots of northern nationalist feel sore that we in the south "didn't do something" to help them and I suppose that's natural. But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs.
If FF tried to do anything about anything while in power, FG would try to block it and when FG were in government the same applied in reverse. FF filled all types of state jobs with their supporters when they held the upper hand and FG did the same.
Even when WT Cosgrove, De Valera and all the major characters in the civil war died, the divide remained for many years after.
I'd say it was only around the time the GFA was signed that old barriers started to come down.
That's what the Civil War did to us and I'm afraid the shinner lads here may find it will take a long time more before SF is fully accepted as a constitutional party.

The south was as divided as the north during the troubles? Really???

"Really" what?

There are still families that won't speak to or have any dealings with other families because of what happened 90 years ago.
About 20 years ago, I was seeking office in my teaching organisation. Two Mayo county councillors were members of the Mayo delegation to the convention where the voting took place.
One was Fine Gael and the other was Fianna Fail- if you follow me.
Both approached me the night before the voting and offered to give me a dig out.
Together we worked every restaurant and watering hole around Salthill and its surrounds and, believe me, there are lots of restaurants and watering holes around Salthill and its surrounds.
The two lads were far more used to the "press the flesh" stuff that I was and they had far more contacts amongst the delegates than I had.
(They were damn good canvassers too because I won the next day on a show of hands- no need for a count to be taken.)
We finished off in the bar o the hotel where all of us were staying. After (quite) a few drinks, we decided to stagger off to our beds. As we attempted to stand out, one turned to the other and said ,"Jaysus, do you know realise we can't be seen together in public again until this time next year?"
That was 70 years on from the Civil War and old wounds in Mayo hadn't healed by then. I  can tell you much of the old bitterness is still there and will be for a long time yet.
I don't know what criteria you use to measure degrees of bitterness but, down here, it wasn't a case of "ussuns" against "themmuns"
It was very often father v son and brother v brother  and you think we had an easier time that your lot??

Some people don't speak to eachother, therefor the bitterness was "as bad" as it was in the north where many hundreds of sectarian murders took place? As claims go, you're verging on lunacy with that one!! Take a wee stroll down sandy row in your mayo jersey and tell me if you still think the same afterwards.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 06:39:39 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 14, 2013, 05:23:42 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 02:16:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 14, 2013, 10:55:00 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 13, 2013, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 13, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber to be in the government here.

But the IRA is no more. Some members have an IRA history, but they've moved on to a democratic process. Same as the southern parties. So is it just time frame that's the issue here? Or is there a belief that the civil war in the south was more "acceptable" than the northern troubles. And if that is the case why?

The Civil War ended ninety years ago. All active participants are dead and no one has a first hand memory of it. That is not the case with the Troubles which are still very much fresh in the memory. Sinn Féin can point out that the gun has finally been removed from Irish politics but there will always be an easy retort for their political opponents in the 26 counties as long as the likes of Adams and Ferris are prominent in the Dáil.
It did DH, but the fallout from it is still evident right up to this day.
Political opinion was deeply polarised after the fighting ended, and, to an extent, it still is.
The Civil War led to a divide between those who had fought together against their common enemy.
Four to five generations later, some people won't let go of old grudges handed on to them and who don't really know why the act this way. The parents did it, the grandparents did it and it comes naturally to them.
"Monkey see, monkey do."
Lots of northern nationalist feel sore that we in the south "didn't do something" to help them and I suppose that's natural. But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs.
If FF tried to do anything about anything while in power, FG would try to block it and when FG were in government the same applied in reverse. FF filled all types of state jobs with their supporters when they held the upper hand and FG did the same.
Even when WT Cosgrove, De Valera and all the major characters in the civil war died, the divide remained for many years after.
I'd say it was only around the time the GFA was signed that old barriers started to come down.
That's what the Civil War did to us and I'm afraid the shinner lads here may find it will take a long time more before SF is fully accepted as a constitutional party.

The south was as divided as the north during the troubles? Really???

"Really" what?

There are still families that won't speak to or have any dealings with other families because of what happened 90 years ago.
About 20 years ago, I was seeking office in my teaching organisation. Two Mayo county councillors were members of the Mayo delegation to the convention where the voting took place.
One was Fine Gael and the other was Fianna Fail- if you follow me.
Both approached me the night before the voting and offered to give me a dig out.
Together we worked every restaurant and watering hole around Salthill and its surrounds and, believe me, there are lots of restaurants and watering holes around Salthill and its surrounds.
The two lads were far more used to the "press the flesh" stuff that I was and they had far more contacts amongst the delegates than I had.
(They were damn good canvassers too because I won the next day on a show of hands- no need for a count to be taken.)
We finished off in the bar o the hotel where all of us were staying. After (quite) a few drinks, we decided to stagger off to our beds. As we attempted to stand out, one turned to the other and said ,"Jaysus, do you know realise we can't be seen together in public again until this time next year?"
That was 70 years on from the Civil War and old wounds in Mayo hadn't healed by then. I  can tell you much of the old bitterness is still there and will be for a long time yet.
I don't know what criteria you use to measure degrees of bitterness but, down here, it wasn't a case of "ussuns" against "themmuns"
It was very often father v son and brother v brother  and you think we had an easier time that your lot??

Some people don't speak to eachother, therefor the bitterness was "as bad" as it was in the north where many hundreds of sectarian murders took place? As claims go, you're verging on lunacy with that one!! Take a wee stroll down sandy row in your mayo jersey and tell me if you still think the same afterwards.
I said a lot more than that and you know it damn well.
Trying to have a sensible discussion with you is like trying to play handball against a hay stack; I can try all I like but I'm going to have sweet fa success no matter how long I stay at it.
You're comparing events of the recent past with ones that happened 90 years ago.
Why would I want to walk down the Sandy Row for any reason? If you stick your paw in a hornet's nest, you know you'll get stung. Why would I or you for that matter want deliberately provoke anyone on the "other" side when the violence only stopped less than 20 years ago?
What do you think the levels of hatred were like 90 years ago when it still lingers on to this day?
Try comparing like with like for a change.
We had hundreds of killings too in case you didn't know. Not near as many as you had but the time frame involved was much shorter.
The levels of ferocity were even greater than you could imagine. How many deaths does it take to make your sense of bitterness greater than ours?
In case you didn't notice I as referring to the levels of bitterness and hate and not attempting to go by body counts.
How many times in the north throughout the 40 years or so of strife, did a father coldly shoot his own son or a son murder his father?  We had dozens of such cases and if you add in brother v brother and uncle v nephew and the likes, you'd go well over the two hundred mark. (I know because I checked and even at that there were many others that I didn't find out about.)
Ever hear of Ballyseedy and what happened there?
In case you haven't, here's a potted version.
Govt. forces took 9 republican prisoners from their place of detention and forced them to start removing a road block, knowing damn well that the roadblock was boobytrapped. 8 of the 9 were killed in the resulting explosion.
Can't think of a single where the security forces ever did anything like that up your way, can you?
I think you just count the capitals and full stops in my posts and then you're off once again on your hobby horse.

BTW, you haven't come back to me yet about Wee Marty's attempts to get elected last year? We're not talking of events around 90 years ago.
I'm a patient man, if you haven't noticed that already. ;D
Take your time by all means but in the meantime, I won't go any further with this "we deserve more sympathy than youse" sort of crap.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on August 14, 2013, 06:52:32 PM
You say a whole lot without saying anything but your quote I referred to read like you were talking about the more recent past than 90 years ago. And i'm writing on a phone and have no more intention of going googling Presidential speeches. Your references to McGuinness' promises through the campaign can be put down to simple electioneering. As happens during elections. As a man with more experience in his wee toe at Head of State roles, I have no doubt he would have been the best candidate but that is neither here nor there. You also referred to SF and how they might have trouble "fiddling the system down here". A totally groundless allegation of SF being involved in regular electoral fraud. When challenged the best you could do to support your argument was a document by the brits, 30 YEARS AGO, which also contained zero proof of this seemingly routine SF boogieman practice. And you say you aren't sucked in by the anti SF media??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: boojangles on August 14, 2013, 08:16:22 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 06:39:39 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 14, 2013, 05:23:42 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 02:16:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 14, 2013, 10:55:00 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 13, 2013, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 13, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber to be in the government here.

But the IRA is no more. Some members have an IRA history, but they've moved on to a democratic process. Same as the southern parties. So is it just time frame that's the issue here? Or is there a belief that the civil war in the south was more "acceptable" than the northern troubles. And if that is the case why?

The Civil War ended ninety years ago. All active participants are dead and no one has a first hand memory of it. That is not the case with the Troubles which are still very much fresh in the memory. Sinn Féin can point out that the gun has finally been removed from Irish politics but there will always be an easy retort for their political opponents in the 26 counties as long as the likes of Adams and Ferris are prominent in the Dáil.
It did DH, but the fallout from it is still evident right up to this day.
Political opinion was deeply polarised after the fighting ended, and, to an extent, it still is.
The Civil War led to a divide between those who had fought together against their common enemy.
Four to five generations later, some people won't let go of old grudges handed on to them and who don't really know why the act this way. The parents did it, the grandparents did it and it comes naturally to them.
"Monkey see, monkey do."
Lots of northern nationalist feel sore that we in the south "didn't do something" to help them and I suppose that's natural. But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs.
If FF tried to do anything about anything while in power, FG would try to block it and when FG were in government the same applied in reverse. FF filled all types of state jobs with their supporters when they held the upper hand and FG did the same.
Even when WT Cosgrove, De Valera and all the major characters in the civil war died, the divide remained for many years after.
I'd say it was only around the time the GFA was signed that old barriers started to come down.
That's what the Civil War did to us and I'm afraid the shinner lads here may find it will take a long time more before SF is fully accepted as a constitutional party.

The south was as divided as the north during the troubles? Really???

"Really" what?

There are still families that won't speak to or have any dealings with other families because of what happened 90 years ago.
About 20 years ago, I was seeking office in my teaching organisation. Two Mayo county councillors were members of the Mayo delegation to the convention where the voting took place.
One was Fine Gael and the other was Fianna Fail- if you follow me.
Both approached me the night before the voting and offered to give me a dig out.
Together we worked every restaurant and watering hole around Salthill and its surrounds and, believe me, there are lots of restaurants and watering holes around Salthill and its surrounds.
The two lads were far more used to the "press the flesh" stuff that I was and they had far more contacts amongst the delegates than I had.
(They were damn good canvassers too because I won the next day on a show of hands- no need for a count to be taken.)
We finished off in the bar o the hotel where all of us were staying. After (quite) a few drinks, we decided to stagger off to our beds. As we attempted to stand out, one turned to the other and said ,"Jaysus, do you know realise we can't be seen together in public again until this time next year?"
That was 70 years on from the Civil War and old wounds in Mayo hadn't healed by then. I  can tell you much of the old bitterness is still there and will be for a long time yet.
I don't know what criteria you use to measure degrees of bitterness but, down here, it wasn't a case of "ussuns" against "themmuns"
It was very often father v son and brother v brother  and you think we had an easier time that your lot??

Some people don't speak to eachother, therefor the bitterness was "as bad" as it was in the north where many hundreds of sectarian murders took place? As claims go, you're verging on lunacy with that one!! Take a wee stroll down sandy row in your mayo jersey and tell me if you still think the same afterwards.
I said a lot more than that and you know it damn well.
Trying to have a sensible discussion with you is like trying to play handball against a hay stack; I can try all I like but I'm going to have sweet fa success no matter how long I stay at it.
You're comparing events of the recent past with ones that happened 90 years ago.
Why would I want to walk down the Sandy Row for any reason? If you stick your paw in a hornet's nest, you know you'll get stung. Why would I or you for that matter want deliberately provoke anyone on the "other" side when the violence only stopped less than 20 years ago?
What do you think the levels of hatred were like 90 years ago when it still lingers on to this day?
Try comparing like with like for a change.
We had hundreds of killings too in case you didn't know. Not near as many as you had but the time frame involved was much shorter.
The levels of ferocity were even greater than you could imagine. How many deaths does it take to make your sense of bitterness greater than ours?
In case you didn't notice I as referring to the levels of bitterness and hate and not attempting to go by body counts.
How many times in the north throughout the 40 years or so of strife, did a father coldly shoot his own son or a son murder his father?  We had dozens of such cases and if you add in brother v brother and uncle v nephew and the likes, you'd go well over the two hundred mark. (I know because I checked and even at that there were many others that I didn't find out about.)
Ever hear of Ballyseedy and what happened there?
In case you haven't, here's a potted version.
Govt. forces took 9 republican prisoners from their place of detention and forced them to start removing a road block, knowing damn well that the roadblock was boobytrapped. 8 of the 9 were killed in the resulting explosion.
Can't think of a single where the security forces ever did anything like that up your way, can you?
I think you just count the capitals and full stops in my posts and then you're off once again on your hobby horse.

BTW, you haven't come back to me yet about Wee Marty's attempts to get elected last year? We're not talking of events around 90 years ago.
I'm a patient man, if you haven't noticed that already. ;D
Take your time by all means but in the meantime, I won't go any further with this "we deserve more sympathy than youse" sort of crap.

Lar do ya mind me asking where you got this sort of info?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 11:27:44 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 14, 2013, 06:52:32 PM
You say a whole lot without saying anything but your quote I referred to read like you were talking about the more recent past than 90 years ago. And i'm writing on a phone and have no more intention of going googling Presidential speeches. Your references to McGuinness' promises through the campaign can be put down to simple electioneering. As happens during elections. As a man with more experience in his wee toe at Head of State roles, I have no doubt he would have been the best candidate but that is neither here nor there. You also referred to SF and how they might have trouble "fiddling the system down here". A totally groundless allegation of SF being involved in regular electoral fraud. When challenged the best you could do to support your argument was a document by the brits, 30 YEARS AGO, which also contained zero proof of this seemingly routine SF boogieman practice. And you say you aren't sucked in by the anti SF media??


You say a whole lot without saying anything but your quote I referred to read like you were talking about the more recent past than 90 years ago.

Janey Mac! I thought I could never be accused of not saying anything about everything! ;D
Now, you may be reading too fast or I may be writing to slow but I thought I was backing up all points I had made with logical arguments to support them.
Maybe you wouldn't mind throwing up a few so I can see the errors of my ways?

And i'm writing on a phone and have no more intention of going googling Presidential speeches.

And I have no intention of backing away from what I said.
FFS, we're talking about an election that took place less than two years ago. It got massive coverage in all sorts of media, local, national and international. Surely An Phoblacht ran a few articles on it. What about the Andersonstown News?
I'm not fussy about the source.  Just link to or copy a relevant article about Marty's campaign that casts him in a favourable light and I'll come back with t least two that says otherwise.

Your references to McGuinness' promises through the campaign can be put down to simple electioneering. As happens during elections.

Hah? Says who?
I give plenty of reasons to put it down to ineptitude and arrogance and you won't make an effort to prove me wrong.

As a man with more experience in his wee toe at Head of State roles, I have no doubt he would have been the best candidate but that is neither here nor there.

Likewise, I had little doubt about his abilities until the little fecker arrived and started up his campaign machine. Plenty of hot air, smoke, grinding gears and backfiring to beat the band but he went nowhere fast from start to finish on his little foray south of the border. I had and still have a lot of respect for Marty the bridge builder and Marty the statesman. It's a pity he left his finer qualities behind him when he decided to head south and show the natives how things should be done.
BTW when I presented you with a (considerable) list of his shortcomings, I omitted what was, arguably, the worst of the lot.
Apparently, he did not seem to realise that questions would be put to him about his terrorist/freedom fighter days. When placard- carrying protestors started appearing at his rallies, Marty handled things rather badly; in fact, he almost invariably lost his cool.
(I can't remember a single instance where he didn't but, in the interests of objectivity, I'm sticking "almost" in.)
When RTE presenter Miriam O'Callaghan asked him on national TV if he had any trouble reconciling his devout Catholicism with his activities as an activist (or something like that,) Marty was stuck for words.
He had no problem finding words to express his feelings afterwards when he confronted Miriam backstage after the gig was over. Again, that's all on public record but since you have no intention of checking out anything I put to you, you'll just have to take my word for this.

You also referred to SF and how they might have trouble "fiddling the system down here".
A totally groundless allegation of SF being involved in regular electoral fraud. When challenged the best you could do to support your argument was a document by the brits, 30 YEARS AGO, which also contained zero proof of this seemingly routine SF boogieman practice. And you say you aren't sucked in by the anti SF media??

I was challenged to do sweet FA!
Here's what you said:
Lar, apart from the indo propaganda rehashing and the boogieman stories about how SF get their vote out in nationalist areas (I live in a nationalist area of the six counties and you don't, so I'll wager I have a better idea of the topic you speak of)

Naturally enough, I accepted your word without question. It's obvious that you should know more about the "carrying on" up there than I do!
But you left it at that, my good man, and proceeded to ask me about some things I had already covered in exhaustive detail:
what exactly do you think mcguinness didn't understand about the role of the presidency, considering it is a meet-and-greet, public appearances, head of state type role, which is a a role he has more experience in than the other candidates had put together?
  No sign of a challenge anywhere in all of that; is there?[/b]
The document I referred to was prepared 30 years ago alright but it was a confidential document prepared for the British Cabinet. It wasn't intended for mass distribution and was or publicity purposes of any sort.
Now who should I choose to believe: A confidential report by British Intelligence prepared for the Cabinet or you, a less than impartial observer? ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 15, 2013, 12:42:04 AM
Quote from: boojangles on August 14, 2013, 08:16:22 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 06:39:39 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 14, 2013, 05:23:42 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 02:16:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 14, 2013, 10:55:00 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 13, 2013, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 13, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber to be in the government here.

But the IRA is no more. Some members have an IRA history, but they've moved on to a democratic process. Same as the southern parties. So is it just time frame that's the issue here? Or is there a belief that the civil war in the south was more "acceptable" than the northern troubles. And if that is the case why?

The Civil War ended ninety years ago. All active participants are dead and no one has a first hand memory of it. That is not the case with the Troubles which are still very much fresh in the memory. Sinn Féin can point out that the gun has finally been removed from Irish politics but there will always be an easy retort for their political opponents in the 26 counties as long as the likes of Adams and Ferris are prominent in the Dáil.
It did DH, but the fallout from it is still evident right up to this day.
Political opinion was deeply polarised after the fighting ended, and, to an extent, it still is.
The Civil War led to a divide between those who had fought together against their common enemy.
Four to five generations later, some people won't let go of old grudges handed on to them and who don't really know why the act this way. The parents did it, the grandparents did it and it comes naturally to them.
"Monkey see, monkey do."
Lots of northern nationalist feel sore that we in the south "didn't do something" to help them and I suppose that's natural. But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs.
If FF tried to do anything about anything while in power, FG would try to block it and when FG were in government the same applied in reverse. FF filled all types of state jobs with their supporters when they held the upper hand and FG did the same.
Even when WT Cosgrove, De Valera and all the major characters in the civil war died, the divide remained for many years after.
I'd say it was only around the time the GFA was signed that old barriers started to come down.
That's what the Civil War did to us and I'm afraid the shinner lads here may find it will take a long time more before SF is fully accepted as a constitutional party.

The south was as divided as the north during the troubles? Really???

"Really" what?

There are still families that won't speak to or have any dealings with other families because of what happened 90 years ago.
About 20 years ago, I was seeking office in my teaching organisation. Two Mayo county councillors were members of the Mayo delegation to the convention where the voting took place.
One was Fine Gael and the other was Fianna Fail- if you follow me.
Both approached me the night before the voting and offered to give me a dig out.
Together we worked every restaurant and watering hole around Salthill and its surrounds and, believe me, there are lots of restaurants and watering holes around Salthill and its surrounds.
The two lads were far more used to the "press the flesh" stuff that I was and they had far more contacts amongst the delegates than I had.
(They were damn good canvassers too because I won the next day on a show of hands- no need for a count to be taken.)
We finished off in the bar o the hotel where all of us were staying. After (quite) a few drinks, we decided to stagger off to our beds. As we attempted to stand out, one turned to the other and said ,"Jaysus, do you know realise we can't be seen together in public again until this time next year?"
That was 70 years on from the Civil War and old wounds in Mayo hadn't healed by then. I  can tell you much of the old bitterness is still there and will be for a long time yet.
I don't know what criteria you use to measure degrees of bitterness but, down here, it wasn't a case of "ussuns" against "themmuns"
It was very often father v son and brother v brother  and you think we had an easier time that your lot??

Some people don't speak to eachother, therefor the bitterness was "as bad" as it was in the north where many hundreds of sectarian murders took place? As claims go, you're verging on lunacy with that one!! Take a wee stroll down sandy row in your mayo jersey and tell me if you still think the same afterwards.
I said a lot more than that and you know it damn well.
Trying to have a sensible discussion with you is like trying to play handball against a hay stack; I can try all I like but I'm going to have sweet fa success no matter how long I stay at it.
You're comparing events of the recent past with ones that happened 90 years ago.
Why would I want to walk down the Sandy Row for any reason? If you stick your paw in a hornet's nest, you know you'll get stung. Why would I or you for that matter want deliberately provoke anyone on the "other" side when the violence only stopped less than 20 years ago?
What do you think the levels of hatred were like 90 years ago when it still lingers on to this day?
Try comparing like with like for a change.
We had hundreds of killings too in case you didn't know. Not near as many as you had but the time frame involved was much shorter.
The levels of ferocity were even greater than you could imagine. How many deaths does it take to make your sense of bitterness greater than ours?
In case you didn't notice I as referring to the levels of bitterness and hate and not attempting to go by body counts.
How many times in the north throughout the 40 years or so of strife, did a father coldly shoot his own son or a son murder his father?  We had dozens of such cases and if you add in brother v brother and uncle v nephew and the likes, you'd go well over the two hundred mark. (I know because I checked and even at that there were many others that I didn't find out about.)
Ever hear of Ballyseedy and what happened there?
In case you haven't, here's a potted version.
Govt. forces took 9 republican prisoners from their place of detention and forced them to start removing a road block, knowing damn well that the roadblock was boobytrapped. 8 of the 9 were killed in the resulting explosion.
Can't think of a single where the security forces ever did anything like that up your way, can you?
I think you just count the capitals and full stops in my posts and then you're off once again on your hobby horse.

BTW, you haven't come back to me yet about Wee Marty's attempts to get elected last year? We're not talking of events around 90 years ago.
I'm a patient man, if you haven't noticed that already. ;D
Take your time by all means but in the meantime, I won't go any further with this "we deserve more sympathy than youse" sort of crap.

Lar do ya mind me asking where you got this sort of info?
Sorry Bo,, I didn't spot this until now.
Are you referring to all the shite historical research I'm presenting here or to a specific portion? ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: boojangles on August 15, 2013, 10:56:28 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 15, 2013, 12:42:04 AM
Quote from: boojangles on August 14, 2013, 08:16:22 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 06:39:39 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 14, 2013, 05:23:42 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 02:16:00 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 14, 2013, 10:55:00 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 13, 2013, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 13, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber to be in the government here.

But the IRA is no more. Some members have an IRA history, but they've moved on to a democratic process. Same as the southern parties. So is it just time frame that's the issue here? Or is there a belief that the civil war in the south was more "acceptable" than the northern troubles. And if that is the case why?

The Civil War ended ninety years ago. All active participants are dead and no one has a first hand memory of it. That is not the case with the Troubles which are still very much fresh in the memory. Sinn Féin can point out that the gun has finally been removed from Irish politics but there will always be an easy retort for their political opponents in the 26 counties as long as the likes of Adams and Ferris are prominent in the Dáil.
It did DH, but the fallout from it is still evident right up to this day.
Political opinion was deeply polarised after the fighting ended, and, to an extent, it still is.
The Civil War led to a divide between those who had fought together against their common enemy.
Four to five generations later, some people won't let go of old grudges handed on to them and who don't really know why the act this way. The parents did it, the grandparents did it and it comes naturally to them.
"Monkey see, monkey do."
Lots of northern nationalist feel sore that we in the south "didn't do something" to help them and I suppose that's natural. But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs.
If FF tried to do anything about anything while in power, FG would try to block it and when FG were in government the same applied in reverse. FF filled all types of state jobs with their supporters when they held the upper hand and FG did the same.
Even when WT Cosgrove, De Valera and all the major characters in the civil war died, the divide remained for many years after.
I'd say it was only around the time the GFA was signed that old barriers started to come down.
That's what the Civil War did to us and I'm afraid the shinner lads here may find it will take a long time more before SF is fully accepted as a constitutional party.

The south was as divided as the north during the troubles? Really???

"Really" what?

There are still families that won't speak to or have any dealings with other families because of what happened 90 years ago.
About 20 years ago, I was seeking office in my teaching organisation. Two Mayo county councillors were members of the Mayo delegation to the convention where the voting took place.
One was Fine Gael and the other was Fianna Fail- if you follow me.
Both approached me the night before the voting and offered to give me a dig out.
Together we worked every restaurant and watering hole around Salthill and its surrounds and, believe me, there are lots of restaurants and watering holes around Salthill and its surrounds.
The two lads were far more used to the "press the flesh" stuff that I was and they had far more contacts amongst the delegates than I had.
(They were damn good canvassers too because I won the next day on a show of hands- no need for a count to be taken.)
We finished off in the bar o the hotel where all of us were staying. After (quite) a few drinks, we decided to stagger off to our beds. As we attempted to stand out, one turned to the other and said ,"Jaysus, do you know realise we can't be seen together in public again until this time next year?"
That was 70 years on from the Civil War and old wounds in Mayo hadn't healed by then. I  can tell you much of the old bitterness is still there and will be for a long time yet.
I don't know what criteria you use to measure degrees of bitterness but, down here, it wasn't a case of "ussuns" against "themmuns"
It was very often father v son and brother v brother  and you think we had an easier time that your lot??

Some people don't speak to eachother, therefor the bitterness was "as bad" as it was in the north where many hundreds of sectarian murders took place? As claims go, you're verging on lunacy with that one!! Take a wee stroll down sandy row in your mayo jersey and tell me if you still think the same afterwards.
I said a lot more than that and you know it damn well.
Trying to have a sensible discussion with you is like trying to play handball against a hay stack; I can try all I like but I'm going to have sweet fa success no matter how long I stay at it.
You're comparing events of the recent past with ones that happened 90 years ago.
Why would I want to walk down the Sandy Row for any reason? If you stick your paw in a hornet's nest, you know you'll get stung. Why would I or you for that matter want deliberately provoke anyone on the "other" side when the violence only stopped less than 20 years ago?
What do you think the levels of hatred were like 90 years ago when it still lingers on to this day?
Try comparing like with like for a change.
We had hundreds of killings too in case you didn't know. Not near as many as you had but the time frame involved was much shorter.
The levels of ferocity were even greater than you could imagine. How many deaths does it take to make your sense of bitterness greater than ours?
In case you didn't notice I as referring to the levels of bitterness and hate and not attempting to go by body counts.
How many times in the north throughout the 40 years or so of strife, did a father coldly shoot his own son or a son murder his father?  We had dozens of such cases and if you add in brother v brother and uncle v nephew and the likes, you'd go well over the two hundred mark. (I know because I checked and even at that there were many others that I didn't find out about.)
Ever hear of Ballyseedy and what happened there?
In case you haven't, here's a potted version.
Govt. forces took 9 republican prisoners from their place of detention and forced them to start removing a road block, knowing damn well that the roadblock was boobytrapped. 8 of the 9 were killed in the resulting explosion.
Can't think of a single where the security forces ever did anything like that up your way, can you?
I think you just count the capitals and full stops in my posts and then you're off once again on your hobby horse.

BTW, you haven't come back to me yet about Wee Marty's attempts to get elected last year? We're not talking of events around 90 years ago.
I'm a patient man, if you haven't noticed that already. ;D
Take your time by all means but in the meantime, I won't go any further with this "we deserve more sympathy than youse" sort of crap.

Lar do ya mind me asking where you got this sort of info?
Sorry Bo,, I didn't spot this until now.
Are you referring to all the shite historical research I'm presenting here or to a specific portion? ;D

No hassle Lar. Any specific information or personal accounts from the Civil War would be helpful? I'm aware of the Bureau of Military records but not sure if there is much on the Civil War.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on August 15, 2013, 11:06:33 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 11:27:44 PM
Now who should I choose to believe: A confidential report by British Intelligence prepared for the Cabinet or you, a less than impartial observer? ;D
[/quot

I would take both with a large large dose of salt  ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 15, 2013, 06:47:21 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 14, 2013, 10:55:00 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 13, 2013, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 13, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 13, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 13, 2013, 01:02:47 PM
I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

They'll be blacklisted as long as they're ran by senior IRA figures. Give people the choice between politicians without terrorist links and those who do and take a wild guess as to which of the two the majority will prefer.

SF is marmite and you need to be a nice bland piece of cucumber to be in the government here.

But the IRA is no more. Some members have an IRA history, but they've moved on to a democratic process. Same as the southern parties. So is it just time frame that's the issue here? Or is there a belief that the civil war in the south was more "acceptable" than the northern troubles. And if that is the case why?

The Civil War ended ninety years ago. All active participants are dead and no one has a first hand memory of it. That is not the case with the Troubles which are still very much fresh in the memory. Sinn Féin can point out that the gun has finally been removed from Irish politics but there will always be an easy retort for their political opponents in the 26 counties as long as the likes of Adams and Ferris are prominent in the Dáil.
It did DH, but the fallout from it is still evident right up to this day.
Political opinion was deeply polarised after the fighting ended, and, to an extent, it still is.
The Civil War led to a divide between those who had fought together against their common enemy.
Four to five generations later, some people won't let go of old grudges handed on to them and who don't really know why the act this way. The parents did it, the grandparents did it and it comes naturally to them.
"Monkey see, monkey do."
Lots of northern nationalist feel sore that we in the south "didn't do something" to help them and I suppose that's natural. But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs.
If FF tried to do anything about anything while in power, FG would try to block it and when FG were in government the same applied in reverse. FF filled all types of state jobs with their supporters when they held the upper hand and FG did the same.
Even when WT Cosgrove, De Valera and all the major characters in the civil war died, the divide remained for many years after.
I'd say it was only around the time the GFA was signed that old barriers started to come down.
That's what the Civil War did to us and I'm afraid the shinner lads here may find it will take a long time more before SF is fully accepted as a constitutional party.

The south was as divided as the north during the troubles? Really???
that's right it was divided between rich and poor and still is. I think you'll find sinn fein will have to wait a very long time until they are accepted as a political party. about 18mths! until the next election or thereabouts. which is a very long time to put up with the gimp kenny
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on August 15, 2013, 08:26:56 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 12, 2013, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 12, 2013, 09:11:56 PM
Where are SF in the polls old bean. I believe they very well could be in the next government if they wish to be, unless some how you have a veto on it. I wouldn't vote for them but then I know a lot who would.
Unless there's a major change in the political order, it won't be a decision for SF.

Who would it be a decision for? If two parties decide to form a coalition it's a decision for both, neither makes the decision for the other. Like it or not SF could take up to 20% of the vote in next election.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on August 15, 2013, 09:05:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 15, 2013, 08:26:56 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 12, 2013, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 12, 2013, 09:11:56 PM
Where are SF in the polls old bean. I believe they very well could be in the next government if they wish to be, unless some how you have a veto on it. I wouldn't vote for them but then I know a lot who would.
Unless there's a major change in the political order, it won't be a decision for SF.

Who would it be a decision for? If two parties decide to form a coalition it's a decision for both, neither makes the decision for the other. Like it or not SF could take up to 20% of the vote in next election.
My point is that it would initially be the biggest party that would get to approach other parties to form a coalition - I think we can rule out SF being the biggest party and therefore it's difficult to see which party would be approaching them to form a government.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 15, 2013, 09:23:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 15, 2013, 11:06:33 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 11:27:44 PM
Now who should I choose to believe: A confidential report by British Intelligence prepared for the Cabinet or you, a less than impartial observer? ;D

I would take both with a large large dose of salt  ;)
Let it be recorded for posterity, Ross; we have finally found something we can agree on. ;D
But all the same, I'd give a bitten more credence to the Brits' report than I normally would. For one thing, it was a cabinet document and wasn't meant for publication so there is no apparent reason to believe that it was intended to mislead anybody.
But, if you don't want to believe anything from the Brits, you could take a lot at what Danny Morrison has to say on the subject of electoral fraud in NI;
"Long before Sinn Fein stood for elections in the North electoral malpractice was common - 'Vote Early, Vote Often', being the legendary catchphrase of campaigners who correctly assumed 'the other side' was equally engaged in impersonation."

Surely the shinners wouldn't ask you and I to believe that Danny was telling porkies?
http://www.dannymorrison.com/wp-content/dannymorrisonarchive/018.htm (http://www.dannymorrison.com/wp-content/dannymorrisonarchive/018.htm)

I never thought that John Hume and David Trimble could ever agree on anything but I was wrong.
Quote"A bitter row broke out in Northern Ireland yesterday as Unionists and the SDLP accused Sinn Fein of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation, A bitter row broke out in Northern Ireland yesterday as Unionists and the SDLP accused Sinn Fein of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation, and republicans hit back with counter-accusations of malpractice, which they said benefited Unionists.
(This was just after the 2001 election.)
Like Danny Morrison says, the whole lot were "voting early and often."

You can read the details here;
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/06/uk.election200112 (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/06/uk.election200112)

If everything was above board up there, why did the Brits feel the need to introduce Electoral Fraud (Northern Ireland) Act 2002?
What do you think? ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on August 15, 2013, 09:56:31 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 15, 2013, 09:23:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 15, 2013, 11:06:33 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 11:27:44 PM
Now who should I choose to believe: A confidential report by British Intelligence prepared for the Cabinet or you, a less than impartial observer? ;D

I would take both with a large large dose of salt  ;)
Let it be recorded for posterity, Ross; we have finally found something we can agree on. ;D
But all the same, I'd give a bitten more credence to the Brits' report than I normally would. For one thing, it was a cabinet document and wasn't meant for publication so there is no apparent reason to believe that it was intended to mislead anybody.
But, if you don't want to believe anything from the Brits, you could take a lot at what Danny Morrison has to say on the subject of electoral fraud in NI;
"Long before Sinn Fein stood for elections in the North electoral malpractice was common - 'Vote Early, Vote Often', being the legendary catchphrase of campaigners who correctly assumed 'the other side' was equally engaged in impersonation."

Surely the shinners wouldn't ask you and I to believe that Danny was telling porkies?
http://www.dannymorrison.com/wp-content/dannymorrisonarchive/018.htm (http://www.dannymorrison.com/wp-content/dannymorrisonarchive/018.htm)

I never thought that John Hume and David Trimble could ever agree on anything but I was wrong.
Quote"A bitter row broke out in Northern Ireland yesterday as Unionists and the SDLP accused Sinn Fein of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation, A bitter row broke out in Northern Ireland yesterday as Unionists and the SDLP accused Sinn Fein of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation, and republicans hit back with counter-accusations of malpractice, which they said benefited Unionists.
(This was just after the 2001 election.)
Like Danny Morrison says, the whole lot were "voting early and often."

You can read the details here;
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/06/uk.election200112 (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/06/uk.election200112)

If everything was above board up there, why did the Brits feel the need to introduce Electoral Fraud (Northern Ireland) Act 2002?
What do you think? ;D


This is 2013. Any actual, you know...proof...for your allegation that SF currently "fiddle the system"?
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you....This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.
For the record, brit documents from 30 years ago (which contained zero proof), and claims made 12 years ago by parties viciously opposed to SF, with no evidence to support the claims, do not count as proof of electoral fraud taking place to this day, as you are alleging).

And also for the record, the guardian article you linked to did not contain any details, never mind "all the details". All it contained were (needless to say, unsubstantiated) allegations of electoral fraud and was written before the election in question even took place. So again, if you would like to prove SF currently engage in electoral fraud, you will need to do better than this to substantiate your claim.

As for your Danny Morrison claims, it seems you were being more than a little misleading. What Danny said, was that "vote early, vote often" was the practice "long before Sinn Féin stood for elections". He goes on to describe allegations that the SF's 2001 election vote was down to impersonation and multiple registration as a "myth" and that Joe Hendron of the SDLP was the only one to be charged (and found guilty) of breaking the rules.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on August 15, 2013, 09:58:13 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 06:09:59 PM
If SF can stick with constitutional policies and keep their guns out of politics, I'll be very happy.
You will be? What guns are SF currently using?

Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 06:09:59 PM
As long as splinter IRA groups remain active, the fear is that the Provos haven't really gone away.
Meanwhile back in the real world, everyone else (except maybe Jim Allister) accepts that the Provos have gone away. Been away for quite some time too.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 15, 2013, 10:31:39 PM
The Fine Gael thread has turned into a real kick in the Shinns.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 16, 2013, 07:10:01 AM
Quote from: Syferus on August 15, 2013, 10:31:39 PM
The Fine Gael thread has turned into a real kick in the Shinns.
true. the slightest implication that sinn fein would hold the balance of power after the next election has scattered the pigeons. with reference to mary o rourke, mary didn't say "coalition" for nothing what she was doing was throwing out the bait for a reaction. better to hold onto power and swallow a little pride than to see the end of dynasty politics. watch closely as ff/fg circle the wagons roping in the lucindas and the eamon o cuivs respectively as and election approaches.

AND WATCH THEM BOTH LAY OFF EACH OTHER AND ATTACK SINN FEIN INSTEAD..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 16, 2013, 04:27:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 15, 2013, 09:56:31 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 15, 2013, 09:23:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 15, 2013, 11:06:33 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 11:27:44 PM
Now who should I choose to believe: A confidential report by British Intelligence prepared for the Cabinet or you, a less than impartial observer? ;D

I would take both with a large large dose of salt  ;)
Let it be recorded for posterity, Ross; we have finally found something we can agree on. ;D
But all the same, I'd give a bitten more credence to the Brits' report than I normally would. For one thing, it was a cabinet document and wasn't meant for publication so there is no apparent reason to believe that it was intended to mislead anybody.
But, if you don't want to believe anything from the Brits, you could take a lot at what Danny Morrison has to say on the subject of electoral fraud in NI;
"Long before Sinn Fein stood for elections in the North electoral malpractice was common - 'Vote Early, Vote Often', being the legendary catchphrase of campaigners who correctly assumed 'the other side' was equally engaged in impersonation."

Surely the shinners wouldn't ask you and I to believe that Danny was telling porkies?
http://www.dannymorrison.com/wp-content/dannymorrisonarchive/018.htm (http://www.dannymorrison.com/wp-content/dannymorrisonarchive/018.htm)

I never thought that John Hume and David Trimble could ever agree on anything but I was wrong.
Quote"A bitter row broke out in Northern Ireland yesterday as Unionists and the SDLP accused Sinn Fein of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation, A bitter row broke out in Northern Ireland yesterday as Unionists and the SDLP accused Sinn Fein of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation, and republicans hit back with counter-accusations of malpractice, which they said benefited Unionists.
(This was just after the 2001 election.)
Like Danny Morrison says, the whole lot were "voting early and often."

You can read the details here;
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/06/uk.election200112 (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/06/uk.election200112)

If everything was above board up there, why did the Brits feel the need to introduce Electoral Fraud (Northern Ireland) Act 2002?
What do you think? ;D


This is 2013. Any actual, you know...proof...for your allegation that SF currently "fiddle the system"?
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you....This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.
For the record, brit documents from 30 years ago (which contained zero proof), and claims made 12 years ago by parties viciously opposed to SF, with no evidence to support the claims, do not count as proof of electoral fraud taking place to this day, as you are alleging).

And also for the record, the guardian article you linked to did not contain any details, never mind "all the details". All it contained were (needless to say, unsubstantiated) allegations of electoral fraud and was written before the election in question even took place. So again, if you would like to prove SF currently engage in electoral fraud, you will need to do better than this to substantiate your claim.

As for your Danny Morrison claims, it seems you were being more than a little misleading. What Danny said, was that "vote early, vote often" was the practice "long before Sinn Féin stood for elections". He goes on to describe allegations that the SF's 2001 election vote was down to impersonation and multiple registration as a "myth" and that Joe Hendron of the SDLP was the only one to be charged (and found guilty) of breaking the rules.
Nally, this is definitely the last time I'm going to indulge you. I know I already said this to Rossfan but since you take a statement like this:  "But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs" to mean I was speaking about the present, I'll make one more allowance.

For the record, this was a cabinet document, meant to be seen by Maggie and her ministers and then archived. Therefore, it couldn't have propaganda value of any sort and would remain archived for at least 20 years.
Why do you think that the cabinet should need actual case histories to prove anything?
They were getting a briefing prepared by their intelligence agencies and unless you feel their own agents were deliberately misleading trhe British GOvernment, this report was presented to them in good faith.

As for what I had to say about Danny Morrison, it's ironic that you should claim I was "more than a little misleading." A bit of double standards here I'm afraid.

I take it for granted that anyone reading this knows that Danny Morrison was an IRA/Sinn Fein apologist. I provided a link to the article I was referring to so readers could read it and draw their own conclusions.
The entire text was there to be seen.
What Danny said was ""Long before Sinn Fein stood for elections in the North electoral malpractice was common - 'Vote Early, Vote Often', being the legendary catchphrase of campaigners who correctly assumed 'the other side' was equally engaged in impersonation."
He didn't add that this malpractice stopped when SF arrived on the scene or that SF didn't engage in this practice either.
I take from the above that all other parties at least continued this malpractice from this point onwards if Danny is to be believed. Otherwise why would he could to the trouble to state an obvious fact would have been out of context?

The point of the exercise was to rubbish claims that SF's 2001 election vote was down to impersonation and multiple registration. I believe you are asking your readers to agree with Danny that this is a "myth."

Yet you are asking us to accept that counter claims by John Hume and David Trimble can be put down to "claims made 12 years ago by parties viciously opposed to SF..."  With or without substantiation, I'd need a little bit more before I could agree with you.
The Brits introduced the Electoral Fraud) Act of 2002 in response to the general public's lack of confidence in the electoral system. One may say it was a move designed to damage Sinn Fein alone but that "one" isn't me.

Would you accept what the present Lord Mayor of Belfast, Mairtin O Muillereoir, has to say about Sinn Fein's involvement  in vote rigging?
(At least I think he's still there.)
http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/01/17/in-passing-mairtin-o-muilleoir-admits-voter-fraud/ (http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/01/17/in-passing-mairtin-o-muilleoir-admits-voter-fraud/)

Under the heading, "In passing: Máirtín Ó Muilleoir confirms voter fraud," you'll find this statement:
"I know a guy (to whom I remain very close) who voted 13 timesin the 1983 election when Gerry Adams took the West Belfast seat from Gerry Fitt, one of the most important milestones passed in this revolution. Wish I was that guy on Sunday week at the Sinn Féin special ard fheis."

TBH, it's hard to make sense of the whole article because Martin has about the same level of competence in the English as lawnseed, but he did post it and he hasn't objected (ASAIK) to the wording of the title.
Now, with regard to what you chose to say about my advice to treublue that SF should stick to constitutional politics and keep the gun out of the picture or something like that, once again, you quoting me out of context.
Lawnseed had put up a post that could be taken to mean that SF would sell their on mothers to get their hands on power/money.
Since I'm inclined to believe that and, as others posters were poking fun at him, I decided to join in.
I got a response from trueblue demanding that I answer lawnseed's question.
Since I wasn't altogether sure that lawnseed uses the English language in his efforts to communicate with us, I couldn't answer a question I couldn't understand.
Trueblue, marginally more clued in than poor lawnseed, came back to demand that I explain why people down were so slow to accept SF's claims that it had truly forsaken violence and was now a genuine party. (Okay, those are my words, not his but I think I just about got his meaning.)
After all, he said, FF and FG had began life the same way as SF, so why do we accept that they are constitutional arties while SF are still distrusted so much.
(My words again but that's the best I can make of trueblue-speak.)
So I answered his question to the best of my ability and he replied:
"I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

I think I gave him a very detailed list of reasons for this and I emphasised that Sinn Fein would have to keep the gun out of politics and stay away for vote-rigging for a much longer time than they claim to have done.
It's now 90 years on from the Civil War and old animosities are still there.
Down here, people still remember the murder of Jerry McCabe and the Provo/Sinn Fein initial denial of involvement. This happened in '96, two years after they declared a ceasefire.
The Irish authorities are satisfied that the motive behind the robbery was to build up another arsenal in order to re-start the conflict.
The Canary Wharf bombing took place in '96.
And you wonder why people down here are so slow to accept your bona fides!
If the above isn't enough to explain this level of continuing distrust, here's yet another reason for it.
Remember this happened in 2003, years after your lot swore they'd be good boys and girls from now on and would never, ever go near them nasty gums and the likes again.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ira-tax-scam-helps-fund-sinn-fein-26237617.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ira-tax-scam-helps-fund-sinn-fein-26237617.html)

Friday 16 August 2013
IRA tax scam helps fund Sinn Fein

A TAX scam operated by IRA figures earned millions ofeuro and money from the fraud went to Sinn Fein's electoral funds, say gardai.
The tax exemption certificate fraud, rooted in the construction industry, was uncovered by the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation earlier this year. The bureau raided more than 20 houses and offices in September and on Thursday and Friday raided houses in Finglas, Meath and Louth and seized thousands of documents relating to the scam.
One of the figures centrally involved is a senior republican. A long-standing member of the IRA, he is regarded as a key backroom figure in Sinn Fein.
As a result of the involvement of the IRA - which is now dormant with almost all republican activity directed towards Sinn Fein's electoral advance - the fraud detectives were accompanied by members of the Special Branch on Friday's raids. One man was arrested by the branch officers after they found two stun guns in his house.
If you're still not fully convinced, you can follow this link and see what you find there.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-fein-chiefs-aware-ceasefire-was-to-be-shattered-26009541.html
Here's the heading and the opening paragraph and after that, you're on your own.

Sinn Fein chiefs aware ceasefire was to be shattered
LEADING members of Sinn Fein were aware in advance that the IRA intended to call off its 1994 ceasefire which was shattered by a massive bomb at Canary Wharf in London's docklands in February 1996.

Throughout this bizarre exchange, I have provided reference sources to corroborate what I had to say and I have given detailed reasons for any point I wanted to make.
ON the other hands, you have relied on snide comments and sarcastic one- liners to make you case.
While you want proof in forensic detail for every thing I say, you have no intention to check anything as you can't be bothered to go to the trouble of doing a google search.
Here's my last offer:
If you don't want to use your iPhone, to check anything out, you can send me a list of search terms you wish to use. I will then do the searching for you and post the url of every first page SERPs page that comes up.
I have asked you to find an article from any form of media, including An Phoblacht or any other Shinner source to give Wee Marty's adventures down here any sort of credit/praise or whatever.
Now either put up or shut up.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 16, 2013, 05:33:07 PM
Funny how 'The Fine Gael Thread' turned into 'The Sinn Féin Thread'. ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on August 16, 2013, 05:36:54 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 16, 2013, 05:33:07 PM
Funny how 'The Fine Gael Thread' turned into 'The Sinn Féin Thread'. ::)

It's more the Lawnseed's view of Sinn Féin thread.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on August 16, 2013, 07:33:10 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 16, 2013, 04:27:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 15, 2013, 09:56:31 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 15, 2013, 09:23:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 15, 2013, 11:06:33 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 11:27:44 PM
Now who should I choose to believe: A confidential report by British Intelligence prepared for the Cabinet or you, a less than impartial observer? ;D

I would take both with a large large dose of salt  ;)
Let it be recorded for posterity, Ross; we have finally found something we can agree on. ;D
But all the same, I'd give a bitten more credence to the Brits' report than I normally would. For one thing, it was a cabinet document and wasn't meant for publication so there is no apparent reason to believe that it was intended to mislead anybody.
But, if you don't want to believe anything from the Brits, you could take a lot at what Danny Morrison has to say on the subject of electoral fraud in NI;
"Long before Sinn Fein stood for elections in the North electoral malpractice was common - 'Vote Early, Vote Often', being the legendary catchphrase of campaigners who correctly assumed 'the other side' was equally engaged in impersonation."

Surely the shinners wouldn't ask you and I to believe that Danny was telling porkies?
http://www.dannymorrison.com/wp-content/dannymorrisonarchive/018.htm (http://www.dannymorrison.com/wp-content/dannymorrisonarchive/018.htm)

I never thought that John Hume and David Trimble could ever agree on anything but I was wrong.
Quote"A bitter row broke out in Northern Ireland yesterday as Unionists and the SDLP accused Sinn Fein of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation, A bitter row broke out in Northern Ireland yesterday as Unionists and the SDLP accused Sinn Fein of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation, and republicans hit back with counter-accusations of malpractice, which they said benefited Unionists.
(This was just after the 2001 election.)
Like Danny Morrison says, the whole lot were "voting early and often."

You can read the details here;
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/06/uk.election200112 (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/06/uk.election200112)

If everything was above board up there, why did the Brits feel the need to introduce Electoral Fraud (Northern Ireland) Act 2002?
What do you think? ;D


This is 2013. Any actual, you know...proof...for your allegation that SF currently "fiddle the system"?
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you....This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.
For the record, brit documents from 30 years ago (which contained zero proof), and claims made 12 years ago by parties viciously opposed to SF, with no evidence to support the claims, do not count as proof of electoral fraud taking place to this day, as you are alleging).

And also for the record, the guardian article you linked to did not contain any details, never mind "all the details". All it contained were (needless to say, unsubstantiated) allegations of electoral fraud and was written before the election in question even took place. So again, if you would like to prove SF currently engage in electoral fraud, you will need to do better than this to substantiate your claim.

As for your Danny Morrison claims, it seems you were being more than a little misleading. What Danny said, was that "vote early, vote often" was the practice "long before Sinn Féin stood for elections". He goes on to describe allegations that the SF's 2001 election vote was down to impersonation and multiple registration as a "myth" and that Joe Hendron of the SDLP was the only one to be charged (and found guilty) of breaking the rules.
Nally, this is definitely the last time I'm going to indulge you. I know I already said this to Rossfan but since you take a statement like this:  "But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs" to mean I was speaking about the present, I'll make one more allowance.

For the record, this was a cabinet document, meant to be seen by Maggie and her ministers and then archived. Therefore, it couldn't have propaganda value of any sort and would remain archived for at least 20 years.
Why do you think that the cabinet should need actual case histories to prove anything?
They were getting a briefing prepared by their intelligence agencies and unless you feel their own agents were deliberately misleading trhe British GOvernment, this report was presented to them in good faith.

As for what I had to say about Danny Morrison, it's ironic that you should claim I was "more than a little misleading." A bit of double standards here I'm afraid.

I take it for granted that anyone reading this knows that Danny Morrison was an IRA/Sinn Fein apologist. I provided a link to the article I was referring to so readers could read it and draw their own conclusions.
The entire text was there to be seen.
What Danny said was ""Long before Sinn Fein stood for elections in the North electoral malpractice was common - 'Vote Early, Vote Often', being the legendary catchphrase of campaigners who correctly assumed 'the other side' was equally engaged in impersonation."
He didn't add that this malpractice stopped when SF arrived on the scene or that SF didn't engage in this practice either.
I take from the above that all other parties at least continued this malpractice from this point onwards if Danny is to be believed. Otherwise why would he could to the trouble to state an obvious fact would have been out of context?

The point of the exercise was to rubbish claims that SF's 2001 election vote was down to impersonation and multiple registration. I believe you are asking your readers to agree with Danny that this is a "myth."

Yet you are asking us to accept that counter claims by John Hume and David Trimble can be put down to "claims made 12 years ago by parties viciously opposed to SF..."  With or without substantiation, I'd need a little bit more before I could agree with you.
The Brits introduced the Electoral Fraud) Act of 2002 in response to the general public's lack of confidence in the electoral system. One may say it was a move designed to damage Sinn Fein alone but that "one" isn't me.

Would you accept what the present Lord Mayor of Belfast, Mairtin O Muillereoir, has to say about Sinn Fein's involvement  in vote rigging?
(At least I think he's still there.)
http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/01/17/in-passing-mairtin-o-muilleoir-admits-voter-fraud/ (http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/01/17/in-passing-mairtin-o-muilleoir-admits-voter-fraud/)

Under the heading, "In passing: Máirtín Ó Muilleoir confirms voter fraud," you'll find this statement:
"I know a guy (to whom I remain very close) who voted 13 timesin the 1983 election when Gerry Adams took the West Belfast seat from Gerry Fitt, one of the most important milestones passed in this revolution. Wish I was that guy on Sunday week at the Sinn Féin special ard fheis."

TBH, it's hard to make sense of the whole article because Martin has about the same level of competence in the English as lawnseed, but he did post it and he hasn't objected (ASAIK) to the wording of the title.
Now, with regard to what you chose to say about my advice to treublue that SF should stick to constitutional politics and keep the gun out of the picture or something like that, once again, you quoting me out of context.
Lawnseed had put up a post that could be taken to mean that SF would sell their on mothers to get their hands on power/money.
Since I'm inclined to believe that and, as others posters were poking fun at him, I decided to join in.
I got a response from trueblue demanding that I answer lawnseed's question.
Since I wasn't altogether sure that lawnseed uses the English language in his efforts to communicate with us, I couldn't answer a question I couldn't understand.
Trueblue, marginally more clued in than poor lawnseed, came back to demand that I explain why people down were so slow to accept SF's claims that it had truly forsaken violence and was now a genuine party. (Okay, those are my words, not his but I think I just about got his meaning.)
After all, he said, FF and FG had began life the same way as SF, so why do we accept that they are constitutional arties while SF are still distrusted so much.
(My words again but that's the best I can make of trueblue-speak.)
So I answered his question to the best of my ability and he replied:
"I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

I think I gave him a very detailed list of reasons for this and I emphasised that Sinn Fein would have to keep the gun out of politics and stay away for vote-rigging for a much longer time than they claim to have done.
It's now 90 years on from the Civil War and old animosities are still there.
Down here, people still remember the murder of Jerry McCabe and the Provo/Sinn Fein initial denial of involvement. This happened in '96, two years after they declared a ceasefire.
The Irish authorities are satisfied that the motive behind the robbery was to build up another arsenal in order to re-start the conflict.
The Canary Wharf bombing took place in '96.
And you wonder why people down here are so slow to accept your bona fides!
If the above isn't enough to explain this level of continuing distrust, here's yet another reason for it.
Remember this happened in 2003, years after your lot swore they'd be good boys and girls from now on and would never, ever go near them nasty gums and the likes again.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ira-tax-scam-helps-fund-sinn-fein-26237617.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ira-tax-scam-helps-fund-sinn-fein-26237617.html)

Friday 16 August 2013
IRA tax scam helps fund Sinn Fein

A TAX scam operated by IRA figures earned millions ofeuro and money from the fraud went to Sinn Fein's electoral funds, say gardai.
The tax exemption certificate fraud, rooted in the construction industry, was uncovered by the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation earlier this year. The bureau raided more than 20 houses and offices in September and on Thursday and Friday raided houses in Finglas, Meath and Louth and seized thousands of documents relating to the scam.
One of the figures centrally involved is a senior republican. A long-standing member of the IRA, he is regarded as a key backroom figure in Sinn Fein.
As a result of the involvement of the IRA - which is now dormant with almost all republican activity directed towards Sinn Fein's electoral advance - the fraud detectives were accompanied by members of the Special Branch on Friday's raids. One man was arrested by the branch officers after they found two stun guns in his house.
If you're still not fully convinced, you can follow this link and see what you find there.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-fein-chiefs-aware-ceasefire-was-to-be-shattered-26009541.html
Here's the heading and the opening paragraph and after that, you're on your own.

Sinn Fein chiefs aware ceasefire was to be shattered
LEADING members of Sinn Fein were aware in advance that the IRA intended to call off its 1994 ceasefire which was shattered by a massive bomb at Canary Wharf in London's docklands in February 1996.

Throughout this bizarre exchange, I have provided reference sources to corroborate what I had to say and I have given detailed reasons for any point I wanted to make.
ON the other hands, you have relied on snide comments and sarcastic one- liners to make you case.
While you want proof in forensic detail for every thing I say, you have no intention to check anything as you can't be bothered to go to the trouble of doing a google search.
Here's my last offer:
If you don't want to use your iPhone, to check anything out, you can send me a list of search terms you wish to use. I will then do the searching for you and post the url of every first page SERPs page that comes up.
I have asked you to find an article from any form of media, including An Phoblacht or any other Shinner source to give Wee Marty's adventures down here any sort of credit/praise or whatever.
Now either put up or shut up.

To repeat your quote...
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you....This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.

...and you somehow think...
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 16, 2013, 04:27:57 PM
I have provided reference sources to corroborate what I had to say

You alleged that SF are currently involved in electoral fraud. I have repeatedly asked you to provide evidence to this and so far all have done is point to a thirty year old brit government document (which, aside from being of no use to proving anything back then, is even less useful to prove you allegations of present day electoral fraud), an article from Danny Morrison where he describes the "vote early, vote often" concept as being around long before SF's time, and makes it abundantly clear that he regarded the idea of SF being involved in electoral fraud as "a myth". Again, how does this prove modern day electoral fraud by SF?), and now your latest effort is to show that Mairtin O'Muilleoir once knew a man who said he voted 13 times, also thirty years ago (once again, how does this prove that SF are currently engaged in electoral fraud?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on August 16, 2013, 08:04:43 PM
The only person I ever heard boast of dodgy behaviour at election time was a FGer about 20 years ago.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 16, 2013, 08:20:00 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 16, 2013, 07:10:01 AM
Quote from: Syferus on August 15, 2013, 10:31:39 PM
The Fine Gael thread has turned into a real kick in the Shinns.
true. the slightest implication that sinn fein would hold the balance of power after the next election has scattered the pigeons. with reference to mary o rourke, mary didn't say "coalition" for nothing what she was doing was throwing out the bait for a reaction. better to hold onto power and swallow a little pride than to see the end of dynasty politics. watch closely as ff/fg circle the wagons roping in the lucindas and the eamon o cuivs respectively as and election approaches.

AND WATCH THEM BOTH LAY OFF EACH OTHER AND ATTACK SINN FEIN INSTEAD..

And rightly so. It's very easy to collapse a good few SF TDs and hover up a few seats.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 16, 2013, 08:52:27 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 16, 2013, 07:33:10 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 16, 2013, 04:27:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 15, 2013, 09:56:31 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 15, 2013, 09:23:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 15, 2013, 11:06:33 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2013, 11:27:44 PM
Now who should I choose to believe: A confidential report by British Intelligence prepared for the Cabinet or you, a less than impartial observer? ;D

I would take both with a large large dose of salt  ;)
Let it be recorded for posterity, Ross; we have finally found something we can agree on. ;D
But all the same, I'd give a bitten more credence to the Brits' report than I normally would. For one thing, it was a cabinet document and wasn't meant for publication so there is no apparent reason to believe that it was intended to mislead anybody.
But, if you don't want to believe anything from the Brits, you could take a lot at what Danny Morrison has to say on the subject of electoral fraud in NI;
"Long before Sinn Fein stood for elections in the North electoral malpractice was common - 'Vote Early, Vote Often', being the legendary catchphrase of campaigners who correctly assumed 'the other side' was equally engaged in impersonation."

Surely the shinners wouldn't ask you and I to believe that Danny was telling porkies?
http://www.dannymorrison.com/wp-content/dannymorrisonarchive/018.htm (http://www.dannymorrison.com/wp-content/dannymorrisonarchive/018.htm)

I never thought that John Hume and David Trimble could ever agree on anything but I was wrong.
Quote"A bitter row broke out in Northern Ireland yesterday as Unionists and the SDLP accused Sinn Fein of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation, A bitter row broke out in Northern Ireland yesterday as Unionists and the SDLP accused Sinn Fein of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation, and republicans hit back with counter-accusations of malpractice, which they said benefited Unionists.
(This was just after the 2001 election.)
Like Danny Morrison says, the whole lot were "voting early and often."

You can read the details here;
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/06/uk.election200112 (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/06/uk.election200112)

If everything was above board up there, why did the Brits feel the need to introduce Electoral Fraud (Northern Ireland) Act 2002?
What do you think? ;D


This is 2013. Any actual, you know...proof...for your allegation that SF currently "fiddle the system"?
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you....This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.
For the record, brit documents from 30 years ago (which contained zero proof), and claims made 12 years ago by parties viciously opposed to SF, with no evidence to support the claims, do not count as proof of electoral fraud taking place to this day, as you are alleging).

And also for the record, the guardian article you linked to did not contain any details, never mind "all the details". All it contained were (needless to say, unsubstantiated) allegations of electoral fraud and was written before the election in question even took place. So again, if you would like to prove SF currently engage in electoral fraud, you will need to do better than this to substantiate your claim.

As for your Danny Morrison claims, it seems you were being more than a little misleading. What Danny said, was that "vote early, vote often" was the practice "long before Sinn Féin stood for elections". He goes on to describe allegations that the SF's 2001 election vote was down to impersonation and multiple registration as a "myth" and that Joe Hendron of the SDLP was the only one to be charged (and found guilty) of breaking the rules.
Nally, this is definitely the last time I'm going to indulge you. I know I already said this to Rossfan but since you take a statement like this:  "But our community was just as sharply divided as theirs" to mean I was speaking about the present, I'll make one more allowance.

For the record, this was a cabinet document, meant to be seen by Maggie and her ministers and then archived. Therefore, it couldn't have propaganda value of any sort and would remain archived for at least 20 years.
Why do you think that the cabinet should need actual case histories to prove anything?
They were getting a briefing prepared by their intelligence agencies and unless you feel their own agents were deliberately misleading trhe British GOvernment, this report was presented to them in good faith.

As for what I had to say about Danny Morrison, it's ironic that you should claim I was "more than a little misleading." A bit of double standards here I'm afraid.

I take it for granted that anyone reading this knows that Danny Morrison was an IRA/Sinn Fein apologist. I provided a link to the article I was referring to so readers could read it and draw their own conclusions.
The entire text was there to be seen.
What Danny said was ""Long before Sinn Fein stood for elections in the North electoral malpractice was common - 'Vote Early, Vote Often', being the legendary catchphrase of campaigners who correctly assumed 'the other side' was equally engaged in impersonation."
He didn't add that this malpractice stopped when SF arrived on the scene or that SF didn't engage in this practice either.
I take from the above that all other parties at least continued this malpractice from this point onwards if Danny is to be believed. Otherwise why would he could to the trouble to state an obvious fact would have been out of context?

The point of the exercise was to rubbish claims that SF's 2001 election vote was down to impersonation and multiple registration. I believe you are asking your readers to agree with Danny that this is a "myth."

Yet you are asking us to accept that counter claims by John Hume and David Trimble can be put down to "claims made 12 years ago by parties viciously opposed to SF..."  With or without substantiation, I'd need a little bit more before I could agree with you.
The Brits introduced the Electoral Fraud) Act of 2002 in response to the general public's lack of confidence in the electoral system. One may say it was a move designed to damage Sinn Fein alone but that "one" isn't me.

Would you accept what the present Lord Mayor of Belfast, Mairtin O Muillereoir, has to say about Sinn Fein's involvement  in vote rigging?
(At least I think he's still there.)
http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/01/17/in-passing-mairtin-o-muilleoir-admits-voter-fraud/ (http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/01/17/in-passing-mairtin-o-muilleoir-admits-voter-fraud/)

Under the heading, "In passing: Máirtín Ó Muilleoir confirms voter fraud," you'll find this statement:
"I know a guy (to whom I remain very close) who voted 13 timesin the 1983 election when Gerry Adams took the West Belfast seat from Gerry Fitt, one of the most important milestones passed in this revolution. Wish I was that guy on Sunday week at the Sinn Féin special ard fheis."

TBH, it's hard to make sense of the whole article because Martin has about the same level of competence in the English as lawnseed, but he did post it and he hasn't objected (ASAIK) to the wording of the title.
Now, with regard to what you chose to say about my advice to treublue that SF should stick to constitutional politics and keep the gun out of the picture or something like that, once again, you quoting me out of context.
Lawnseed had put up a post that could be taken to mean that SF would sell their on mothers to get their hands on power/money.
Since I'm inclined to believe that and, as others posters were poking fun at him, I decided to join in.
I got a response from trueblue demanding that I answer lawnseed's question.
Since I wasn't altogether sure that lawnseed uses the English language in his efforts to communicate with us, I couldn't answer a question I couldn't understand.
Trueblue, marginally more clued in than poor lawnseed, came back to demand that I explain why people down were so slow to accept SF's claims that it had truly forsaken violence and was now a genuine party. (Okay, those are my words, not his but I think I just about got his meaning.)
After all, he said, FF and FG had began life the same way as SF, so why do we accept that they are constitutional arties while SF are still distrusted so much.
(My words again but that's the best I can make of trueblue-speak.)
So I answered his question to the best of my ability and he replied:
"I've just been through it with Lar (And to be fair his last post clarifies something I had picked us differently orginally). SF have given up the bullet and work solely on a political only basis now. Yet some posters would have them black balled for eternity due to their history with the IRA. But the same posters tend to overlook the orgins of other parties and actions of members within those parties because it was 90 odd years ago. Why?

I think I gave him a very detailed list of reasons for this and I emphasised that Sinn Fein would have to keep the gun out of politics and stay away for vote-rigging for a much longer time than they claim to have done.
It's now 90 years on from the Civil War and old animosities are still there.
Down here, people still remember the murder of Jerry McCabe and the Provo/Sinn Fein initial denial of involvement. This happened in '96, two years after they declared a ceasefire.
The Irish authorities are satisfied that the motive behind the robbery was to build up another arsenal in order to re-start the conflict.
The Canary Wharf bombing took place in '96.
And you wonder why people down here are so slow to accept your bona fides!
If the above isn't enough to explain this level of continuing distrust, here's yet another reason for it.
Remember this happened in 2003, years after your lot swore they'd be good boys and girls from now on and would never, ever go near them nasty gums and the likes again.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ira-tax-scam-helps-fund-sinn-fein-26237617.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ira-tax-scam-helps-fund-sinn-fein-26237617.html)

Friday 16 August 2013
IRA tax scam helps fund Sinn Fein

A TAX scam operated by IRA figures earned millions ofeuro and money from the fraud went to Sinn Fein's electoral funds, say gardai.
The tax exemption certificate fraud, rooted in the construction industry, was uncovered by the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation earlier this year. The bureau raided more than 20 houses and offices in September and on Thursday and Friday raided houses in Finglas, Meath and Louth and seized thousands of documents relating to the scam.
One of the figures centrally involved is a senior republican. A long-standing member of the IRA, he is regarded as a key backroom figure in Sinn Fein.
As a result of the involvement of the IRA - which is now dormant with almost all republican activity directed towards Sinn Fein's electoral advance - the fraud detectives were accompanied by members of the Special Branch on Friday's raids. One man was arrested by the branch officers after they found two stun guns in his house.
If you're still not fully convinced, you can follow this link and see what you find there.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-fein-chiefs-aware-ceasefire-was-to-be-shattered-26009541.html
Here's the heading and the opening paragraph and after that, you're on your own.

Sinn Fein chiefs aware ceasefire was to be shattered
LEADING members of Sinn Fein were aware in advance that the IRA intended to call off its 1994 ceasefire which was shattered by a massive bomb at Canary Wharf in London's docklands in February 1996.

Throughout this bizarre exchange, I have provided reference sources to corroborate what I had to say and I have given detailed reasons for any point I wanted to make.
ON the other hands, you have relied on snide comments and sarcastic one- liners to make you case.
While you want proof in forensic detail for every thing I say, you have no intention to check anything as you can't be bothered to go to the trouble of doing a google search.
Here's my last offer:
If you don't want to use your iPhone, to check anything out, you can send me a list of search terms you wish to use. I will then do the searching for you and post the url of every first page SERPs page that comes up.
I have asked you to find an article from any form of media, including An Phoblacht or any other Shinner source to give Wee Marty's adventures down here any sort of credit/praise or whatever.
Now either put up or shut up.

To repeat your quote...
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 12, 2013, 12:53:42 AM
I don't think you really understand the way our electoral system works. We don't have your first past the post model so it's not as easy to fiddle the system as it is for you....This would put the shinners at a disadvantage straightaway.

...and you somehow think...
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 16, 2013, 04:27:57 PM
I have provided reference sources to corroborate what I had to say

You alleged that SF are currently involved in electoral fraud. I have repeatedly asked you to provide evidence to this and so far all have done is point to a thirty year old brit government document (which, aside from being of no use to proving anything back then, is even less useful to prove you allegations of present day electoral fraud), an article from Danny Morrison where he describes the "vote early, vote often" concept as being around long before SF's time, and makes it abundantly clear that he regarded the idea of SF being involved in electoral fraud as "a myth". Again, how does this prove modern day electoral fraud by SF?), and now your latest effort is to show that Mairtin O'Muilleoir once knew a man who said he voted 13 times, also thirty years ago (once again, how does this prove that SF are currently engaged in electoral fraud?

Nally, a chara, youi sure are one guy won't take a hint.
I've said twice already that you either put up or shut up.
I'm no wannabe EG and I'm not going to continue page after page of facts, figures and reference links whille you have no intention to of backing up your claim that I wasn't telling the truth about Marty's campaign.
I even offered to do your research for you if you supplied me with your search terms.
Damn it, I said I'd even  accept anything from any Shinner source you care to mention and still you won't take up my offer.
You're bluffing and you know it!

Once more and with feeling,
PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 16, 2013, 09:47:30 PM
lar narparka sure talks a lot about sinn fein on the fine gael thread. (and me)

do not feed the pigeons. it makes them nuts
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 16, 2013, 09:50:39 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 16, 2013, 09:47:30 PM
lar narparka sure talks a lot about sinn fein on the fine gael thread. (and me)

do not feed the pigeons. it makes them nuts

Sinn Fein are cuckoo  ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 16, 2013, 09:54:48 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 16, 2013, 09:50:39 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 16, 2013, 09:47:30 PM
lar narparka sure talks a lot about sinn fein on the fine gael thread. (and me)

do not feed the pigeons. it makes them nuts

Sinn Fein are cuckoo  ;)
and what does a cuckoo do..? it pushes they wee birdy out of its nest ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 16, 2013, 09:58:23 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 16, 2013, 09:54:48 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 16, 2013, 09:50:39 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 16, 2013, 09:47:30 PM
lar narparka sure talks a lot about sinn fein on the fine gael thread. (and me)

do not feed the pigeons. it makes them nuts

Sinn Fein are cuckoo  ;)
and what does a cuckoo do..? it pushes they wee birdy out of its nest ;)

It's the thug of the bird world.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on August 16, 2013, 10:55:29 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 16, 2013, 09:54:48 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 16, 2013, 09:50:39 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 16, 2013, 09:47:30 PM
lar narparka sure talks a lot about sinn fein on the fine gael thread. (and me)

do not feed the pigeons. it makes them nuts

Sinn Fein are cuckoo  ;)
and what does a cuckoo do..? it pushes they wee birdy out of its nest ;)
Ethnic cleansing?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 16, 2013, 11:12:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 16, 2013, 09:47:30 PM
lar narparka sure talks a lot about sinn fein on the fine gael thread. (and me)

do not feed the pigeons. it makes them nuts

Arra, don't worry about what I say to you; there is no malice involved.
Same goes for trueblue. I can't always figure out what either of you is trying to say but I know you are sincere in your beliefs- even if I'm not sure what they are at times.
I thought you had a good case to make on the thread about Lidl and the hurleys affair and I hope you got some sort of explanation for their failure to promote the hurling gear in the North from the company by now.
Keep 'er lit by all means. ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 16, 2013, 11:57:24 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 16, 2013, 11:12:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 16, 2013, 09:47:30 PM
lar narparka sure talks a lot about sinn fein on the fine gael thread. (and me)

do not feed the pigeons. it makes them nuts

Arra, don't worry about what I say to you; there is no malice involved.
Same goes for trueblue. I can't always figure out what either of you is trying to say but I know you are sincere in your beliefs- even if I'm not sure what they are at times.
I thought you had a good case to make on the thread about Lidl and the hurleys affair and I hope you got some sort of explanation for their failure to promote the hurling gear in the North from the company by now.
Keep 'er lit by all means. ;D

Great dig.

Gerry may have taken the gun out of politics but he never said anything about the Molotovs.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 17, 2013, 12:43:22 AM
If only Lar and Nally would stop quoting each other it would make it a tad easier on the rest of us! :D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 17, 2013, 02:07:46 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 17, 2013, 12:43:22 AM
If only Lar and Nally would stop quoting each other it would make it a tad easier on the rest of us! :D

And if you only read my second last post above, you wouldn't need to write daft statements like that would you? ;D
I thought Nally was the only one alive who did understand what "Put up or shut (the f**k) up" meant.
No more posts for me that would give a head of cabbage an ache.
Surely your teacher must have said the same to you many a time – well, the second half anyway. Probably your oul' fella too. (It always worked for me.) ;D
Maybe I should just PM my good friend EG and ask him to put manners on Nally as I'm more concerned about the All Ireland final- dunno yet who we'll be playing.
YeeeHaw!
Keep the faith!

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 17, 2013, 02:33:54 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 17, 2013, 02:07:46 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 17, 2013, 12:43:22 AM
If only Lar and Nally would stop quoting each other it would make it a tad easier on the rest of us! :D

And if you only read my second last post above, you wouldn't need to write daft statements like that would you? ;D
I thought Nally was the only one alive who did understand what "Put up or shut (the f**k) up" meant.
No more posts for me that would give a head of cabbage an ache.
Surely your teacher must have said the same to you many a time – well, the second half anyway. Probably your oul' fella too. (It always worked for me.) ;D
Maybe I should just PM my good friend EG and ask him to put manners on Nally as I'm more concerned about the All Ireland final- dunno yet who we'll be playing.
YeeeHaw!
Keep the faith!

Nally is just trying to make himself relevant with Tyrone fecked.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on August 17, 2013, 03:01:43 AM
Lar, "put up or shut up" is nothing but a catchphrase.  You made a claim that SF are currently involved in electoral fraud, or "fiddling" the electoral system, to use your phrase. I am merely (repeatedly) asking you to provide proof to back up this claim.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 17, 2013, 12:32:00 PM
 @ Farr
I know, Farr, I know...
But I just can't help giving to temptation once more. ;D
This is the very last post from me on this thread until the subject matter changes. At least I'll try my best to have sense and go back to the football.
All the Mayos and every Rosquito buzzing all over the place would like to see you doing your worrying over there where we can keep an eye on you, like. ;D

@ Nally
I hope you understand that there's nothing personal in what I have been saying to you or lawnseed and trueblue for that matter.
Ever since my L&H Society days, I've been fond of debating.
But I'm talking of debates in the classical sense ie where each party puts forward a point of view and then seeks to back it up with a series of logical, sequential arguments.
IMO, arguments degenerate into quarrels when one or more participants decide to leave logic aside and decide to debate in a petty or contentious way.
I am saying Wee Marty put his hoof in his gob when his campaign bus with it Northern reg. plates first crossed the border and he kept it firmly there until it went back again for the last time.
You dispute this.
I expected you to provide some corroboration for your claims. Got nothing so far and this is my fourth time of asking.
I even offered to do your research worth for you as you had "no more (than what?) intention" of googling anything. Even the Shinners' site would do.
And you expect to be taken seriously!
This is the second (and last) time I am asking you to point out where I claimed "SF are currently involved in electoral fraud." ( Or anything close to it.)
"Put up or shut up," may be a mere catchphrase to you but it's an invitation from me to either....

PUT UP
or
SHUT UP
or stop wasting my time.
I have other things to do.

Back to the Mayo thread now. ;D

Tiocfaidh Ár Lá!
(Ours, not yours, Nally.)

Keep the Faith!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on August 17, 2013, 01:07:33 PM
I've posted the quote numerous times Lar. The first few times I did, you even tried to back it up (albeit using documents making unsubstantiated claims thirty years ago). I'm only asking for you to substantiate your claims of electoral fraud when you said that an inability to "fiddle the system" in the south "puts SF at a serious disadvantage".

Also, you said SF hadn't yet removed their guns from Irish politics. For a man who claims to back up his arguments, I'm still waiting on you to tell me what SF guns these are.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 17, 2013, 01:41:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 17, 2013, 01:07:33 PM
I've posted the quote numerous times Lar. The first few times I did, you even tried to back it up (albeit using documents making unsubstantiated claims thirty years ago). I'm only asking for you to substantiate your claims of electoral fraud when you said that an inability to "fiddle the system" in the south "puts SF at a serious disadvantage".

Also, you said SF hadn't yet removed their guns from Irish politics. For a man who claims to back up his arguments, I'm still waiting on you to tell me what SF guns these are.

Sure didn't they find a massive cache of Rah guns only a couple months ago?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 17, 2013, 01:42:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 17, 2013, 01:07:33 PM
I've posted the quote numerous times Lar. The first few times I did, you even tried to back it up (albeit using documents making unsubstantiated claims thirty years ago). I'm only asking for you to substantiate your claims of electoral fraud when you said that an inability to "fiddle the system" in the south "puts SF at a serious disadvantage".

Also, you said SF hadn't yet removed their guns from Irish politics. For a man who claims to back up his arguments, I'm still waiting on you to tell me what SF guns these are.


< Yawn>

Put up or shut up.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 17, 2013, 01:44:20 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 17, 2013, 01:41:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 17, 2013, 01:07:33 PM
I've posted the quote numerous times Lar. The first few times I did, you even tried to back it up (albeit using documents making unsubstantiated claims thirty years ago). I'm only asking for you to substantiate your claims of electoral fraud when you said that an inability to "fiddle the system" in the south "puts SF at a serious disadvantage".

Also, you said SF hadn't yet removed their guns from Irish politics. For a man who claims to back up his arguments, I'm still waiting on you to tell me what SF guns these are.

Sure didn't they find a massive cache of Rah guns found only a couple months ago?

No, they're not!
Didn't the rah say they knew nothing about them? ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on August 17, 2013, 02:08:54 PM
(http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/aug2009/martin-mcguinness-1972.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on August 17, 2013, 02:39:26 PM
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/nallyandmarty_zps626da722.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/nallyandmarty_zps626da722.png.html)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on August 17, 2013, 06:22:18 PM
From Sindo/Millward Brown:
FG 29 (+3), FF 28 (-1), SF 18 (same), others 16 (-2), Lab 8 (same). Record 37% undecided

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 17, 2013, 06:51:08 PM
Looks like we're headed for the much fabled Meath-Westmeath coalition.

They think they're different but, really, they're not.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 17, 2013, 09:22:57 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 17, 2013, 02:39:26 PM
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/nallyandmarty_zps626da722.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/nallyandmarty_zps626da722.png.html)

Hardy, you knock me out! ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on August 18, 2013, 12:58:48 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 17, 2013, 01:42:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 17, 2013, 01:07:33 PM
I've posted the quote numerous times Lar. The first few times I did, you even tried to back it up (albeit using documents making unsubstantiated claims thirty years ago). I'm only asking for you to substantiate your claims of electoral fraud when you said that an inability to "fiddle the system" in the south "puts SF at a serious disadvantage".

Also, you said SF hadn't yet removed their guns from Irish politics. For a man who claims to back up his arguments, I'm still waiting on you to tell me what SF guns these are.


< Yawn>

Put up or shut up.

You asked me to give you the quote, so don't spit the dummy out and deflect attention with "yawns" and bizarre and meaningless "put up or shut up" comments. You repeatedly say you back up your arguments and that you enjoy doing so as part of debates, so just be big enough to either back up your claim that SF engage in electoral fraud or admit you were talking utter crap.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 18, 2013, 12:57:31 PM
(http://www.mayogodhelpus.com/nally_shut_up.gif)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on August 18, 2013, 02:08:23 PM
You won't get to far in the debating society like this, Lar.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 18, 2013, 10:54:55 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 17, 2013, 06:51:08 PM
Looks like we're headed for the much fabled Meath-Westmeath coalition.

They think they're different but, really, they're not.
I'd like to ask you a questions, Syf; one that I've been tempted to ask may times before.

WTF are you on about? ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 18, 2013, 11:01:24 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 18, 2013, 10:54:55 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 17, 2013, 06:51:08 PM
Looks like we're headed for the much fabled Meath-Westmeath coalition.

They think they're different but, really, they're not.
I'd like to ask you a questions, Syf; one that I've been tempted to ask may times before.

WTF are you on about? ;D

(http://s2.thejournal.ie/media/2013/06/enda-kenny-mayo-gaa-310x415.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 19, 2013, 12:48:53 AM
Quote from: Syferus on August 18, 2013, 11:01:24 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 18, 2013, 10:54:55 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 17, 2013, 06:51:08 PM
Looks like we're headed for the much fabled Meath-Westmeath coalition.

They think they're different but, really, they're not.
I'd like to ask you a questions, Syf; one that I've been tempted to ask may times before.

WTF are you on about? ;D

(http://s2.thejournal.ie/media/2013/06/enda-kenny-mayo-gaa-310x415.jpg)

You have waaaay too much time on your hands. ;D


@ Nally
This is after all The Fine Gael thread.
As a courtesy to other members of the board, why don't you go off and create one of your own?
You create the thread; post your OP and let's see what happens after that.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on August 19, 2013, 01:43:10 AM
@Lar. You made an allegation about SF being involved in electoral fraud ("fiddling the system"), and you made it on this thread. All I'm asking is that you either back up your allegation with proof or admit you can't because you were talking rubbish.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 19, 2013, 07:08:39 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 19, 2013, 01:43:10 AM
@Lar. You made an allegation about SF being involved in electoral fraud ("fiddling the system"), and you made it on this thread. All I'm asking is that you either back up your allegation with proof or admit you can't because you were talking rubbish.
its what they do.. rossfan does it as well. talks shite about washing diesel etc.. no mention of ff/fg destroying the place.. I suppose as they join up in coalition the script wont change much ::) baaahh baaahh
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 19, 2013, 07:31:48 AM
FF and FG have the shaggin place destroyed. Bhfuil tú sásta anois lawnseed?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 19, 2013, 11:18:23 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 17, 2013, 06:22:18 PM
From Sindo/Millward Brown:
FG 29 (+3), FF 28 (-1), SF 18 (same), others 16 (-2), Lab 8 (same). Record 37% undecided
Going by those figures, the present coalition isn't going to hold together until April 2016. As a new election must be called before then, Enda will be looking at the 37% undecideds and wondering when to do a damage limitation job and call an election.
I don't think this will happen for a while yet but tensions between the coalition and, more importantly, internal wrangling in the Labour party will force his hand sooner rather than later.
It's noteworthy that every time Labour went into coalition with either FG or FF, they got hammered in the polls at the following GE. They must be dreading the next one.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on August 19, 2013, 06:17:58 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 19, 2013, 11:18:23 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 17, 2013, 06:22:18 PM
From Sindo/Millward Brown:
FG 29 (+3), FF 28 (-1), SF 18 (same), others 16 (-2), Lab 8 (same). Record 37% undecided
Going by those figures, the present coalition isn't going to hold together until April 2016. As a new election must be called before then, Enda will be looking at the 37% undecideds and wondering when to do a damage limitation job and call an election.
I don't think this will happen for a while yet but tensions between the coalition and, more importantly, internal wrangling in the Labour party will force his hand sooner rather than later.
It's noteworthy that every time Labour went into coalition with either FG or FF, they got hammered in the polls at the following GE. They must be dreading the next one.
It will hold together until April 2016 in the absence of a viable alternative. It's not like the polls are telling us that people really want FF or SF to take over. Mid-term polls are rarely good for the governing party/parties, even when things are a lot better than they are at present.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 19, 2013, 07:05:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 19, 2013, 06:17:58 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 19, 2013, 11:18:23 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 17, 2013, 06:22:18 PM
From Sindo/Millward Brown:
FG 29 (+3), FF 28 (-1), SF 18 (same), others 16 (-2), Lab 8 (same). Record 37% undecided
Going by those figures, the present coalition isn't going to hold together until April 2016. As a new election must be called before then, Enda will be looking at the 37% undecideds and wondering when to do a damage limitation job and call an election.
I don't think this will happen for a while yet but tensions between the coalition and, more importantly, internal wrangling in the Labour party will force his hand sooner rather than later.
It's noteworthy that every time Labour went into coalition with either FG or FF, they got hammered in the polls at the following GE. They must be dreading the next one.
It will hold together until April 2016 in the absence of a viable alternative. It's not like the polls are telling us that people really want FF or SF to take over. Mid-term polls are rarely good for the governing party/parties, even when things are a lot better than they are at present.
There are a number or reasons why I don't see this happening.
Bertie Ahern once told me that the pressure to hold an earl election almost invariably comes from backbench TDs. Here I am talking about members of the government party or parties.
If a rumour starts doing the rounds that an election will be called, constituents start making life difficult for all TDs but the ones holding marginal seats are under most pressure.
What would have been polite requests for something or other suddenly becomes demands and life can be very stressful for those at the receiving end.
If they become edgy and less inclined to support unpopular policy, the government in turn come sunder pressure.
Ahern reckoned that Jack Lynch's landslide majority was the worst thing ever to hit FF. We had been discussing three-seaters but the same rationale could apply to most others.  Wherever FF took a second seat where normally there was only one, the pair elected began to get edgy and jostled for position, knowing that a slight swing against the party would leave one of them on the dole.
Labour are in serious disarray right now and have been that way since they went into government. There a couple of austerity budgets still to come and if they stay in government  right to the end in the hope that the economic situation improves, they will be leaving themselves without any room to manoeuvre.
There will be internal tensions in FG also. Apart from all that, there will be constituencies where FG and Labour will be in contention for the last seat.
In Mayo for instance, if the representation is cut from the present five to four, O'Mahony and Mulherrin both know only one of them can survive. If the economy gets worse not better, both of them could be in danger.
I don't know much about other constituencies but I've no reason to believe that Mayo is an isolated case.
There may not be a viable alternative if an election is called but I don't think that would be the primary concern of many backbenchers. That's been my experience anyway.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 25, 2013, 10:31:36 PM
More calls at todays mick collins commemoration from bill o herilly former fg strategist for fg/ff
Coalition.. Its on..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 25, 2013, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 25, 2013, 10:31:36 PM
More calls at todays mick collins commemoration from bill o herilly former fg strategist for fg/ff
Coalition.. Its on..

He said earlier in the week his idea has no backing from either FG or FF and it was more or less a solo run. He said today that he is no longer a FG strategist and he has not communicated his idea with the Taoiseach. FF & FG both rubbished the idea.

Non-story.

Lawnseed - Must try harder.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 26, 2013, 07:13:15 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 25, 2013, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 25, 2013, 10:31:36 PM
More calls at today's mick collins commemoration from bill o herilly former fg strategist for fg/ff
Coalition.. Its on..

He said earlier in the week his idea has no backing from either FG or FF and it was more or less a solo run. He said today that he is no longer a FG strategist and he has not communicated his idea with the Taoiseach. FF & FG both rubbished the idea.

Non-story.

Lawnseed - Must try harder.
I read your post and I'm thinking.. 'wood for the trees'.
then I wonder why an rte presenter can be a fg strategist and hold a job in the state broadcaster when former state broadcaster employees who dabbled in politics could not get their jobs back for a period of some years until they were considered 'sanitised'. but then its the 26 and rules don't apply to government stooges any more than they apply to tds or guards or bankers or indeed anyone who's rich
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 26, 2013, 07:55:03 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 19, 2013, 07:31:48 AM
FF and FG have the shaggin place destroyed. Bhfuil tú sásta anois lawnseed?

I did say it lawnseed.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Ulick on August 26, 2013, 08:17:57 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 25, 2013, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 25, 2013, 10:31:36 PM
More calls at todays mick collins commemoration from bill o herilly former fg strategist for fg/ff
Coalition.. Its on..

He said earlier in the week his idea has no backing from either FG or FF and it was more or less a solo run. He said today that he is no longer a FG strategist and he has not communicated his idea with the Taoiseach. FF & FG both rubbished the idea.

Non-story.

Lawnseed - Must try harder.

Very liitle of that will have any bearing on whether this ever happens and you would expect both factions to "rubbish" the idea. The idea of FG & FF linking up reminds me of we're unlikely to see a single national soccer team - primarily because it runs against the material interests of those in senior positions of each governing body. Currently two sets of people get to enjoy the trappings of power with lots of travel, expense accounts and media exposure. However there may come a time where the national interest dictates they've no other choice. For example, lets say Labour gets wipped out (not inconceivable) at the next election and SF refuse to enter coalition with either FF or FG? If it falls that FF/FG is the only other feasible option you can be sure that the powers that be in both Parties will use the "national interest" argument to ensure at least some of them get their bums on ministerial seats. I can see why you are reluctant to admit it though - FG would have most to loose in this situation as they have the more fickle support base who are likely to conclude they may as well vote for FF the election after if voting FG means getting a FF government.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on August 26, 2013, 09:13:06 AM
Quote from: Ulick on August 26, 2013, 08:17:57 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 25, 2013, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 25, 2013, 10:31:36 PM
More calls at todays mick collins commemoration from bill o herilly former fg strategist for fg/ff
Coalition.. Its on..

He said earlier in the week his idea has no backing from either FG or FF and it was more or less a solo run. He said today that he is no longer a FG strategist and he has not communicated his idea with the Taoiseach. FF & FG both rubbished the idea.

Non-story.

Lawnseed - Must try harder.

Very liitle of that will have any bearing on whether this ever happens and you would expect both factions to "rubbish" the idea. The idea of FG & FF linking up reminds me of we're unlikely to see a single national soccer team - primarily because it runs against the material interests of those in senior positions of each governing body. Currently two sets of people get to enjoy the trappings of power with lots of travel, expense accounts and media exposure. However there may come a time where the national interest dictates they've no other choice. For example, lets say Labour gets wipped out (not inconceivable) at the next election and SF refuse to enter coalition with either FF or FG? If it falls that FF/FG is the only other feasible option you can be sure that the powers that be in both Parties will use the "national interest" argument to ensure at least some of them get their bums on ministerial seats. I can see why you are reluctant to admit it though - FG would have most to loose in this situation as they have the more fickle support base who are likely to conclude they may as well vote for FF the election after if voting FG means getting a FF government.
Whatever about SF/FF, I don't think a SF/FG coalition would be Sinn Féin's to refuse. Also, I couldn't see SF refusing to go into power with FF if they got the slightest opportunity.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Ulick on August 26, 2013, 10:03:58 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 26, 2013, 09:13:06 AM
Quote from: Ulick on August 26, 2013, 08:17:57 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 25, 2013, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 25, 2013, 10:31:36 PM
More calls at todays mick collins commemoration from bill o herilly former fg strategist for fg/ff
Coalition.. Its on..

He said earlier in the week his idea has no backing from either FG or FF and it was more or less a solo run. He said today that he is no longer a FG strategist and he has not communicated his idea with the Taoiseach. FF & FG both rubbished the idea.

Non-story.

Lawnseed - Must try harder.

Very liitle of that will have any bearing on whether this ever happens and you would expect both factions to "rubbish" the idea. The idea of FG & FF linking up reminds me of we're unlikely to see a single national soccer team - primarily because it runs against the material interests of those in senior positions of each governing body. Currently two sets of people get to enjoy the trappings of power with lots of travel, expense accounts and media exposure. However there may come a time where the national interest dictates they've no other choice. For example, lets say Labour gets wipped out (not inconceivable) at the next election and SF refuse to enter coalition with either FF or FG? If it falls that FF/FG is the only other feasible option you can be sure that the powers that be in both Parties will use the "national interest" argument to ensure at least some of them get their bums on ministerial seats. I can see why you are reluctant to admit it though - FG would have most to loose in this situation as they have the more fickle support base who are likely to conclude they may as well vote for FF the election after if voting FG means getting a FF government.
Whatever about SF/FF, I don't think a SF/FG coalition would be Sinn Féin's to refuse. Also, I couldn't see SF refusing to go into power with FF if they got the slightest opportunity.

You might be surprised. I've canvassed for SF in the south on a few occasions and my personal experience is that there's not nearly half as much animosity towards SF from grassroots FG activists as there is from FF people. There are people in SF who would jump at the chance to go into power with anyone - particularly the northerns - however they don't hold sway in the Ard Chomhairle any more. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 26, 2013, 06:26:58 PM
What if sinn fein were to hook up with labour and the lefties.. This would force fg to work with ff. Sinnfein would then become the opposition.. Ahhaaaa its beginning to dawn on mayogodhelpus this is exactly what sinn fein want. All the dung in the one spot. where the infection can be treated. Its all falling into place 8)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on August 27, 2013, 11:53:27 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 26, 2013, 06:26:58 PM
What if sinn fein were to hook up with labour and the lefties.. )
SF want to replace "labour and the lefties" .
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 27, 2013, 02:37:52 PM
It sure must be tough being a Shinner.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 27, 2013, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 26, 2013, 06:26:58 PM
What if sinn fein were to hook up with labour and the lefties.. This would force fg to work with ff. Sinnfein would then become the opposition.. Ahhaaaa its beginning to dawn on mayogodhelpus this is exactly what sinn fein want. All the dung in the one spot. where the infection can be treated. Its all falling into place 8)

(http://doblelol.com/thumbs/flaky-funny_4899643890992861.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 27, 2013, 09:47:27 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 27, 2013, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 26, 2013, 06:26:58 PM
What if sinn fein were to hook up with labour and the lefties.. This would force fg to work with ff. Sinnfein would then become the opposition.. Ahhaaaa its beginning to dawn on mayogodhelpus this is exactly what sinn fein want. All the dung in the one spot. where the infection can be treated. Its all falling into place 8)

(http://doblelol.com/thumbs/flaky-funny_4899643890992861.jpg)
you do realise they sinn fein don't actually want to hook up. but the mere threat will send enda into the arms of michael
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 27, 2013, 11:16:29 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 27, 2013, 09:47:27 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 27, 2013, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 26, 2013, 06:26:58 PM
What if sinn fein were to hook up with labour and the lefties.. This would force fg to work with ff. Sinnfein would then become the opposition.. Ahhaaaa its beginning to dawn on mayogodhelpus this is exactly what sinn fein want. All the dung in the one spot. where the infection can be treated. Its all falling into place 8)

(http://doblelol.com/thumbs/flaky-funny_4899643890992861.jpg)
you do realise they sinn fein don't actually want to hook up. but the mere threat will send enda into the arms of michael

You honestly think you lot are a threat politically in the Republic? You are living in cloudcuckooland. FG will choose opposition or a minority led government over any coalition with SF or FF.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 31, 2013, 07:43:08 PM
Gerry has already ruled out a coalition with fg under any circumstances. ff are still 'persona non gratia' that only leaves 'labour lite'  who need a dungout ie bye bye Gilmore burton etc and the lefties who seem a little too left for me. the whole thing is a bit shitty either way no real change in sight so the irish electorate will continue to get it in the neck   
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 31, 2013, 07:57:00 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 31, 2013, 07:43:08 PM
Gerry has already ruled out a coalition with fg under any circumstances. ff are still 'persona non gratia' that only leaves 'labour lite'  who need a dungout ie bye bye Gilmore burton etc and the lefties who seem a little too left for me. the whole thing is a bit shitty either way no real change in sight so the irish electorate will continue to get it in the neck

As opposed to in the knee like the Shinners deliver their own brand of justice, BOOM BOOM, ha.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on August 31, 2013, 08:39:58 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 31, 2013, 07:57:00 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 31, 2013, 07:43:08 PM
Gerry has already ruled out a coalition with fg under any circumstances. ff are still 'persona non gratia' that only leaves 'labour lite'  who need a dungout ie bye bye Gilmore burton etc and the lefties who seem a little too left for me. the whole thing is a bit shitty either way no real change in sight so the irish electorate will continue to get it in the neck

As opposed to in the knee like the Shinners deliver their own brand of justice, BOOM BOOM, ha.
like I side i'm going to save you during the dungout.. sort of like lawnseed-schindler. but you need to lay off the knee jokes nally isn't as forgiving
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on August 31, 2013, 08:45:02 PM
Does Gerry even age? Are vampires even eligible to be Taoiseach?

Pretty sure Dev put a stipulation against them holding high office in the constitution when he was writing it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on August 31, 2013, 09:06:55 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 31, 2013, 07:43:08 PM
Gerry has already ruled out a coalition with fg under any circumstances. ff are still 'persona non gratia' that only leaves 'labour lite' 
So Gerry and his 20 to 25 TDs will join Labour with their 20 and form a Government in 2015/16?
Jasus Hayseed you must have skipped Sums when you went to that hedge school.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 31, 2013, 11:47:34 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 27, 2013, 11:16:29 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 27, 2013, 09:47:27 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 27, 2013, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 26, 2013, 06:26:58 PM
What if sinn fein were to hook up with labour and the lefties.. This would force fg to work with ff. Sinnfein would then become the opposition.. Ahhaaaa its beginning to dawn on mayogodhelpus this is exactly what sinn fein want. All the dung in the one spot. where the infection can be treated. Its all falling into place 8)

(http://doblelol.com/thumbs/flaky-funny_4899643890992861.jpg)
you do realise they sinn fein don't actually want to hook up. but the mere threat will send enda into the arms of michael

You honestly think you lot are a threat politically in the Republic? You are living in cloudcuckooland. FG will choose opposition or a minority led government over any coalition with SF or FF.
Believe it or not, I feel FF would back a minority FG administration before allowing SF into government.
That's not as incredible as it may seem at first sight.
FG has supported minority FF govts. twice in the past and there was the so-called Tallaght Strategy during the time of Alan Dukes' leadership when FG held a conference to decide on strategy and listed a number o key areas where they wouldn't oppose FF policy. They said this was being done in the national interest and I've no reason to doubt their sincerity.
With FG likely to ne the bigger party for the conceivable future, I'd expect FF to return the compliment; if only to prevent the Shinners making further inroads into their core vote.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on September 02, 2013, 07:09:21 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 31, 2013, 11:47:34 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 27, 2013, 11:16:29 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 27, 2013, 09:47:27 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 27, 2013, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on August 26, 2013, 06:26:58 PM
What if sinn fein were to hook up with labour and the lefties.. This would force fg to work with ff. Sinnfein would then become the opposition.. Ahhaaaa its beginning to dawn on mayogodhelpus this is exactly what sinn fein want. All the dung in the one spot. where the infection can be treated. Its all falling into place 8)

(http://doblelol.com/thumbs/flaky-funny_4899643890992861.jpg)
you do realise they sinn fein don't actually want to hook up. but the mere threat will send enda into the arms of michael

You honestly think you lot are a threat politically in the Republic? You are living in cloudcuckooland. FG will choose opposition or a minority led government over any coalition with SF or FF.
Believe it or not, I feel FF would back a minority FG administration before allowing SF into government.
That's not as incredible as it may seem at first sight.
FG has supported minority FF govts. twice in the past and there was the so-called Tallaght Strategy during the time of Alan Dukes' leadership when FG held a conference to decide on strategy and listed a number o key areas where they wouldn't oppose FF policy. They said this was being done in the national interest and I've no reason to doubt their sincerity.
With FG likely to ne the bigger party for the conceivable future, I'd expect FF to return the compliment; if only to prevent the Shinners making further inroads into their core vote.
I refer my honourable friend to the reply I gave some time ago..
the saddest thing is that the sheep seemed to have very little say/choice in what happens and don't seem to want to know
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 05, 2013, 11:12:08 PM
What do you all make of the new European constituencies  being leaked? Also what about Jim Higgins and his battle with the FG hierarchy?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on September 08, 2013, 02:29:49 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 05, 2013, 11:12:08 PM
What do you all make of the new European constituencies  being leaked? Also what about Jim Higgins and his battle with the FG hierarchy?
Such is the importance of fg on this forum and despite them being the government i see they still need bumped up..
Not aware of these changes farren would you care to elabourate
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on September 18, 2013, 10:00:43 PM
I see its coming near the 'enda' the road. the Kenny klan are starting to worry about their jobs in the up coming election there's already descent in the ranks. unbelievably Gilmore still thinks he'll one day lead the country ::) noonan probably wont stand again- too old. the up coming referendum could just be the end for kenny
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 19, 2013, 11:07:08 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 18, 2013, 10:00:43 PM
I see its coming near the 'enda' the road. the Kenny klan are starting to worry about their jobs in the up coming election there's already decent in the ranks. unbelievably Gilmore still thinks he'll one day lead the country ::) noonan probably wont stand again- too old. the up coming referendum could just be the end for kenny
I'm sure the decent FGers will be delighted to know they have you on ther side. ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on September 19, 2013, 07:43:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 19, 2013, 11:07:08 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 18, 2013, 10:00:43 PM
I see its coming near the 'enda' the road. the Kenny klan are starting to worry about their jobs in the up coming election there's already decent in the ranks. unbelievably Gilmore still thinks he'll one day lead the country ::) noonan probably wont stand again- too old. the up coming referendum could just be the end for kenny
I'm sure the decent FGers will be delighted to know they have you on ther side. ;D
'their side' you mean. touché mon aimee

they'll be worried I have them in my sights ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 19, 2013, 08:43:18 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 19, 2013, 07:43:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 19, 2013, 11:07:08 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 18, 2013, 10:00:43 PM
I see its coming near the 'enda' the road. the Kenny klan are starting to worry about their jobs in the up coming election there's already decent in the ranks. unbelievably Gilmore still thinks he'll one day lead the country ::) noonan probably wont stand again- too old. the up coming referendum could just be the end for kenny
I'm sure the decent FGers will be delighted to know they have you on ther side. ;D
'their side' you mean. touché mon aimee

they'll be worried I have them in my sights ;)

Gun sights is it?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on September 19, 2013, 08:54:22 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 19, 2013, 08:43:18 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 19, 2013, 07:43:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 19, 2013, 11:07:08 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 18, 2013, 10:00:43 PM
I see its coming near the 'enda' the road. the Kenny klan are starting to worry about their jobs in the up coming election there's already decent in the ranks. unbelievably Gilmore still thinks he'll one day lead the country ::) noonan probably wont stand again- too old. the up coming referendum could just be the end for kenny
I'm sure the decent FGers will be delighted to know they have you on ther side. ;D
'their side' you mean. touché mon aimee

they'll be worried I have them in my sights ;)

Gun sights is it?
I'll be handing out a few tyburn neck ties
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: All of a Sludden on September 21, 2013, 01:47:07 PM
It has emerged the State Agency Forfás spent more than €1.4m last year renting offices that were never used.
The figures, which are contained in the agency's Financial Statements for 2012, have prompted Fianna Fáil to call on the Public Expenditure Minister Brendan Howlin to explain why this is happening and to take action.
The party's spokesperson on Public Expenditure and Reform, Sean Fleming, said he fears other State agencies may also be wasting taxpayers' money.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on September 21, 2013, 02:10:36 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on September 21, 2013, 01:47:07 PM
It has emerged the State Agency Forfás spent more than €1.4m last year renting offices that were never used.
The figures, which are contained in the agency's Financial Statements for 2012, have prompted Fianna Fáil to call on the Public Expenditure Minister Brendan Howlin to explain why this is happening and to take action.
The party's spokesperson on Public Expenditure and Reform, Sean Fleming, said he fears other State agencies may also be wasting taxpayers' money.

Forfás Board

Chairman: Eoin O'Driscoll http://www.forfas.ie/aboutus/ourpeople/board/eoinodriscoll/ (http://www.forfas.ie/aboutus/ourpeople/board/eoinodriscoll/) Appointed by Mary Harney
Chief Executive: Martin Shanahan http://www.forfas.ie/aboutus/ourpeople/board/martindshanahan/#d.en.6422 (http://www.forfas.ie/aboutus/ourpeople/board/martindshanahan/#d.en.6422) Appointed by Batt O'Keefe
Director: Mark Ferguson http://www.forfas.ie/aboutus/ourpeople/board/markferguson/#d.en.9032 (http://www.forfas.ie/aboutus/ourpeople/board/markferguson/#d.en.9032) Appointed by Richard Bruton
Director: John Murphy http://www.forfas.ie/aboutus/ourpeople/board/johnmurphy/#d.en.9033 (http://www.forfas.ie/aboutus/ourpeople/board/johnmurphy/#d.en.9033) Appointed by Richard Bruton
Director: Barry O'Leary http://www.forfas.ie/aboutus/ourpeople/board/barryoleary/ (http://www.forfas.ie/aboutus/ourpeople/board/barryoleary/) Appointed by Micheál Martin
Director: Frank Ryan http://www.forfas.ie/aboutus/ourpeople/board/frankryan/ (http://www.forfas.ie/aboutus/ourpeople/board/frankryan/) Appointed by Mary Harney
Secretary: Michael O'Leary Appointed by Mary Harney

Fianna Fáil really has some cheek, considering most of the Board (and indeed all of the other wastrel Boards) were appointed by themselves and their PD partners. Sadly though they rightly assume that most voters have forgotten.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: All of a Sludden on September 21, 2013, 02:22:41 PM
Yes muppet, the previous government are to blame for everything, the current lot haven't had a chance to make changes.

I suppose Bertie is to blame for an ambulance running out of fuel while transporting a transplant patient. Maybe we have found a job that Cowen is fit for? http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/ambulance-runs-out-of-fuel-while-moving-transplant-patient-607637.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on September 21, 2013, 05:32:00 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on September 21, 2013, 02:22:41 PM
Yes muppet, the previous government are to blame for everything, the current lot haven't had a chance to make changes.

I suppose Bertie is to blame for an ambulance running out of fuel while transporting a transplant patient. Maybe we have found a job that Cowen is fit for? http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/ambulance-runs-out-of-fuel-while-moving-transplant-patient-607637.html

Your post has Fianna Fail complaining. Anyone else, fair enough, but Fianna Fail!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on September 21, 2013, 07:02:16 PM
I think you're a bit off base here muppet. If something is crap does it really matter who complains about it? Who should be allowed raise it?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on September 21, 2013, 07:04:48 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 21, 2013, 07:02:16 PM
I think you're a bit off base here muppet. If something is crap does it really matter who complains about it? Who should be allowed raise it?

Well if AIB complains about the budget, is that ok?
Or Sean Quinn?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on September 22, 2013, 08:19:47 AM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on September 21, 2013, 01:47:07 PM
It has emerged the State Agency Forfás spent more than €1.4m last year renting offices that were never used.
The figures, which are contained in the agency's Financial Statements for 2012, have prompted Fianna Fáil to call on the Public Expenditure Minister Brendan Howlin to explain why this is happening and to take action.
The party's spokesperson on Public Expenditure and Reform, Sean Fleming, said he fears other State agencies may also be wasting taxpayers' money.
Id be more interrested in who owns these unused properties. Im thinking government stooge or wife of fg td
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 22, 2013, 11:27:11 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 22, 2013, 08:19:47 AM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on September 21, 2013, 01:47:07 PM
It has emerged the State Agency Forfás spent more than €1.4m last year renting offices that were never used.
The figures, which are contained in the agency's Financial Statements for 2012, have prompted Fianna Fáil to call on the Public Expenditure Minister Brendan Howlin to explain why this is happening and to take action.
The party's spokesperson on Public Expenditure and Reform, Sean Fleming, said he fears other State agencies may also be wasting taxpayers' money.
Id be more interrested in who owns these unused properties. Im thinking government stooge or wife of fg td

You would think you would be more worried about the container ship full of smuggled cigs found ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on September 22, 2013, 07:49:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2013, 07:04:48 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 21, 2013, 07:02:16 PM
I think you're a bit off base here muppet. If something is crap does it really matter who complains about it? Who should be allowed raise it?

Well if AIB complains about the budget, is that ok?
Or Sean Quinn?

So who is allowed complain if something is wrong? Only those who have clean hands completely?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on September 22, 2013, 10:40:14 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 22, 2013, 11:27:11 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 22, 2013, 08:19:47 AM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on September 21, 2013, 01:47:07 PM
It has emerged the State Agency Forfás spent more than €1.4m last year renting offices that were never used.
The figures, which are contained in the agency's Financial Statements for 2012, have prompted Fianna Fáil to call on the Public Expenditure Minister Brendan Howlin to explain why this is happening and to take action.
The party's spokesperson on Public Expenditure and Reform, Sean Fleming, said he fears other State agencies may also be wasting taxpayers' money.
Id be more interrested in who owns these unused properties. Im thinking government stooge or wife of fg td

You would think you would be more worried about the container ship full of smuggled cigs found ;)
time was a container of fags was something. the families have gotten so big now that a container is only a snack. even a small outfit could handle the loss of one or two containers that's progress and growth in the local economy
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: All of a Sludden on September 22, 2013, 11:22:08 PM
Enda didn't hang around Croker today.  ;)

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on September 22, 2013, 11:49:11 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on September 22, 2013, 11:22:08 PM
Enda didn't hang around Croker today.  ;)
good
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on September 23, 2013, 01:05:12 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 22, 2013, 07:49:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2013, 07:04:48 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 21, 2013, 07:02:16 PM
I think you're a bit off base here muppet. If something is crap does it really matter who complains about it? Who should be allowed raise it?

Well if AIB complains about the budget, is that ok?
Or Sean Quinn?

So who is allowed complain if something is wrong? Only those who have clean hands completely?

Everyone is allowed to complain, I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those most responsible being the ones giving out about the mess.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Billys Boots on September 23, 2013, 01:15:49 PM
I'm with you Elmo; unlike AZ I'm not going to forget.  ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on September 23, 2013, 01:25:05 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on September 22, 2013, 11:49:11 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on September 22, 2013, 11:22:08 PM
Enda didn't hang around Croker today.  ;)
good

Mayo fan you know.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 02:43:00 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on September 23, 2013, 01:15:49 PM
I'm with you Elmo; unlike AZ I'm not going to forget.  ;)

I'm not going to forget either. But I think if we disqualify criticism of the government from the opposition, on the grounds that they made a right f**k up themselves, then we might as well forget the whole thing.  Only Sinn Fein would be allowed to criticise the government of the day, until they themselves get in...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on September 23, 2013, 02:46:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 02:43:00 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on September 23, 2013, 01:15:49 PM
I'm with you Elmo; unlike AZ I'm not going to forget.  ;)

I'm not going to forget either. But I think if we disqualify criticism of the government from the opposition, on the grounds that they made a right f**k up themselves, then we might as well forget the whole thing.  Only Sinn Fein would be allowed to criticise the government of the day, until they themselves get in...

I was specifically pointing out their criticism of a mess they themselves created, not all criticism of the Government.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 03:00:13 PM
Yeah, but they fucked up everything :D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on September 23, 2013, 03:01:35 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 03:00:13 PM
Yeah, but they fucked up everything :D

No dispute from me on that one.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Billys Boots on September 23, 2013, 03:40:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 23, 2013, 03:01:35 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 03:00:13 PM
Yeah, but they fucked up everything :D

No dispute from me on that one.

Nor me.  Don't mind criticism where it's due - but criticism from the culpable is infuriating, especially when they know some gobshites are listening to them. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 03:46:45 PM
But lads, if you don't want to hear criticism of what's happening today from those who made a c**k up of it initially, then basically you are limiting the criticism to either Sinn Fein or the Independents. Is that really what ye want?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on September 23, 2013, 03:51:19 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 03:46:45 PM
But lads, if you don't want to hear criticism of what's happening today from those who made a c**k up of it initially, then basically you are limiting the criticism to either Sinn Fein or the Independents. Is that really what ye want?

Not at all, criticism of a Forfás screw up can come from Government back-bench TDs, the Senate ( ::)) or even the media.

But it is simply hypocrisy hearing it from FF.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Billys Boots on September 23, 2013, 03:53:35 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 03:46:45 PM
But lads, if you don't want to hear criticism of what's happening today from those who made a c**k up of it initially, then basically you are limiting the criticism to either Sinn Fein or the Independents. Is that really what ye want?

Yes.  Why would I want a deeply flawed analysis of an incompetence from the originator?  Are you saying I'm stupid?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 03:59:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 23, 2013, 03:51:19 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 03:46:45 PM
But lads, if you don't want to hear criticism of what's happening today from those who made a c**k up of it initially, then basically you are limiting the criticism to either Sinn Fein or the Independents. Is that really what ye want?

Not at all, criticism of a Forfás screw up can come from Government back-bench TDs, the Senate ( ::)) or even the media.

But it is simply hypocrisy hearing it from FF.

So you think backbenchers, the soon to be extinct Seanad or the media are the ones who should be the ones providing the challenge to the current government? I don't think that's a good basis for democracy.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on September 23, 2013, 03:53:35 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 03:46:45 PM
But lads, if you don't want to hear criticism of what's happening today from those who made a c**k up of it initially, then basically you are limiting the criticism to either Sinn Fein or the Independents. Is that really what ye want?

Yes.  Why would I want a deeply flawed analysis of an incompetence from the originator?  Are you saying I'm stupid?

I think what you are saying is ridiculous. The opposition of the day (whether you like them or not, or whether they made a balls of things or not) are supposed to challenge the government of the day with regard to current policies and decisions. If you disqualify them from doing that, then you might as well ban all ex-members of government from sitting in the Dáil, because every one of them has made a balls of things at various times.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on September 23, 2013, 04:05:23 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 03:59:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 23, 2013, 03:51:19 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 03:46:45 PM
But lads, if you don't want to hear criticism of what's happening today from those who made a c**k up of it initially, then basically you are limiting the criticism to either Sinn Fein or the Independents. Is that really what ye want?

Not at all, criticism of a Forfás screw up can come from Government back-bench TDs, the Senate ( ::)) or even the media.

But it is simply hypocrisy hearing it from FF.

So you think backbenchers, the soon to be extinct Seanad or the media are the ones who should be the ones providing the challenge to the current government? I don't think that's a good basis for democracy.

FF's populism is not a good basis for democracy either.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 04:24:38 PM
Absolutely not, but populism is not the exclusive property of the Fianna Fáil strategy.

And I realise that you were talking about a specific example here, and I can see how your response to Michéal Martin would be along the lines of 'Are you f**king serious with this?'. In fact I'd say the sale of brass has increased quite a bit when you see some of the stuff that the soldiers of destiny are spouting.

However, in the general sense, I can't see how a system of oppositional politics can function if the voice of the main opposition party is not allowed to be heard. Of course it's up to you if you listen to them, but to suggest that they've forfeited their right to comment on current day events is crazy. As I said, we might as well just bar all ex-government party members (including those who weren't around to f**k things up) from being present in the Dáil.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Billys Boots on September 23, 2013, 04:28:31 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on September 23, 2013, 03:53:35 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 03:46:45 PM
But lads, if you don't want to hear criticism of what's happening today from those who made a c**k up of it initially, then basically you are limiting the criticism to either Sinn Fein or the Independents. Is that really what ye want?

Yes.  Why would I want a deeply flawed analysis of an incompetence from the originator?  Are you saying I'm stupid?

I think what you are saying is ridiculous. The opposition of the day (whether you like them or not, or whether they made a balls of things or not) are supposed to challenge the government of the day with regard to current policies and decisions. If you disqualify them from doing that, then you might as well ban all ex-members of government from sitting in the Dáil, because every one of them has made a balls of things at various times.

You're talking in generalities; I'm talking in specifics.  Of course the opposition should highlight the incompetencies of the incumbents - they shouldn't however dress up their own f**k-ups as someone else's.  The immense public-sector costs to the state are a direct consequence of FF policy in government - if their contribution to office in opposition is to try to blame this on the present government then I'm perfectly entitled to regard it as disingenuous (and typical) of them. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on September 23, 2013, 04:34:36 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on September 23, 2013, 04:28:31 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on September 23, 2013, 03:53:35 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 03:46:45 PM
But lads, if you don't want to hear criticism of what's happening today from those who made a c**k up of it initially, then basically you are limiting the criticism to either Sinn Fein or the Independents. Is that really what ye want?

Yes.  Why would I want a deeply flawed analysis of an incompetence from the originator?  Are you saying I'm stupid?

I think what you are saying is ridiculous. The opposition of the day (whether you like them or not, or whether they made a balls of things or not) are supposed to challenge the government of the day with regard to current policies and decisions. If you disqualify them from doing that, then you might as well ban all ex-members of government from sitting in the Dáil, because every one of them has made a balls of things at various times.

You're talking in generalities; I'm talking in specifics.  Of course the opposition should highlight the incompetencies of the incumbents - they shouldn't however dress up their own f**k-ups as someone else's.  The immense public-sector costs to the state are a direct consequence of FF policy in government - if their contribution to office in opposition is to try to blame this on the present government then I'm perfectly entitled to regard it as disingenuous (and typical) of them.



This
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 04:37:10 PM
OK fair enough. In this specific example I agree that it's fairly rich.

In general though, I would defend their right to oppose in opposition. And I'd say they'll have a good while to get used to getting good at it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on September 23, 2013, 04:43:32 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 04:37:10 PM
OK fair enough. In this specific example I agree that it's fairly rich.

In generalities though, I would defend their right to oppose in opposition. And I'd say they'll have a good while to get used to getting good at it.

It is scary thinking about what the next Dáil will look like.

I hate the idea of returning a Government to power in a GE, even if they do a brilliant job, which is a scenario we don't have.

So if you reasonably assume the country doesn't want FG/Labour again, then what will we have? (I am aware of the irony of sounding like Bertie/McCreevy 'but shur look at the alternative').

I have a feeling we might get an awful lot of independents which is not a good thing. Look at the likes of Wallace, Healy-Rae and Ming. Do we want even more of that?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on September 23, 2013, 04:49:38 PM
This is kind of what I'm saying muppet. I have no issue with returning a government if they are doing a good job, and pulling the plug if they are not. But the problem is I suppose that in a small country, with a political 'class', you end up with the same names and the same ideologies just going around and around. So if it's not FG/Lab next time, it might be FF/Lab or even FF/SF. It'll never be anything other than FF or FG led coalitions for years to come I think. To be honest the thoughts of Mick Wallace having *any* say in my children's Ireland frightens the shit out of me. The likes of Joe Higgins or Clare Daly as strident leftist voices may be useful as a counterpoint to the FG and FF centre-right policies. Labour stand for nothing anymore as far as I can see, which is disappointing. Sinn Fein would be a leftist option, but they seem to be still trying to get an identity in the south that isn't just anti-everything.

Unless a new party emerges from somewhere, that's basically the cycle we are in.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Billys Boots on September 23, 2013, 04:51:45 PM
I have no love for the incumbents but I would like to see what they'll do (if it ever happens again) with an expansionary budget before castigating them.  They're on a hiding to nothing in the present position - they've done what they said they would, but no-one is feeling anything but pain from them. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 26, 2013, 07:26:26 PM
From Twitter:
QuoteSBP REDC post budget poll FG wins, Lab slips to single figures FG 29 (+2) FF 23 (=) Lab 9 (-1) SF 17 (=) Ind/Oth 22 (-1) (D/K 18%)
Unbelievable that the opposition can't boost their figures in a post-budget poll.

QuoteSeat estimates based on constituency level analysis of SBP-Red C poll: FG 57, FF 45, SF 22, LAB 9, GP 0, IND/OTH 25
80 for a majority next time out - FG/FF looks like the only option on those numbers.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 26, 2013, 08:06:49 PM
Quote80 for a majority next time out - FG/FF looks like the only option on those numbers.

How about an anti Blueshirt coalition of FF SF & Lab!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 26, 2013, 08:24:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 26, 2013, 07:26:26 PM
From Twitter:
QuoteSBP REDC post budget poll FG wins, Lab slips to single figures FG 29 (+2) FF 23 (=) Lab 9 (-1) SF 17 (=) Ind/Oth 22 (-1) (D/K 18%)
Unbelievable that the opposition can't boost their figures in a post-budget poll.

QuoteSeat estimates based on constituency level analysis of SBP-Red C poll: FG 57, FF 45, SF 22, LAB 9, GP 0, IND/OTH 25
80 for a majority next time out - FG/FF looks like the only option on those numbers.

Re: your first point, is it that unbelievable?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 26, 2013, 09:27:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 26, 2013, 08:06:49 PM
Quote80 for a majority next time out - FG/FF looks like the only option on those numbers.

How about an anti Blueshirt coalition of FF SF & Lab!
That's 31 short of a majority by my calculations.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 26, 2013, 09:28:49 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 26, 2013, 08:24:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 26, 2013, 07:26:26 PM
From Twitter:
QuoteSBP REDC post budget poll FG wins, Lab slips to single figures FG 29 (+2) FF 23 (=) Lab 9 (-1) SF 17 (=) Ind/Oth 22 (-1) (D/K 18%)
Unbelievable that the opposition can't boost their figures in a post-budget poll.

QuoteSeat estimates based on constituency level analysis of SBP-Red C poll: FG 57, FF 45, SF 22, LAB 9, GP 0, IND/OTH 25
80 for a majority next time out - FG/FF looks like the only option on those numbers.

Re: your first point, is it that unbelievable?
Maybe not 'unbelievable' given the quality of the opposition - just a very poor showing.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 26, 2013, 09:35:10 PM
QuoteThat's 31 short of a majority by my calculations.

FF 45, SF 22, LAB 9 = 76 not quite a majority, but one more seat each and you'd nearly be there. Then bring a couple of independents back to the mother ship.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 26, 2013, 10:34:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 26, 2013, 09:35:10 PM
QuoteThat's 31 short of a majority by my calculations.

FF 45, SF 22, LAB 9 = 76 not quite a majority, but one more seat each and you'd nearly be there. Then bring a couple of independents back to the mother ship.
My mistake - was adding the percentage figures!
Although given recent experience, I wouldn't favour a government trying to keep a few independents on side - a 3-party coalition would be unstable enough to start with.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:56:47 AM
You let him out of the cupboard for mandela's funeral and the gimp scribbles all over the mans book of condolence and disgraces the place as usual. Any wonder sarkey was slapping the head off the stupid hoor he should have kicked his hole aswell. But thats the voters job isnt it
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 10:28:21 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:56:47 AM
You let him out of the cupboard for mandela's funeral and the gimp scribbles all over the mans book of condolence and disgraces the place as usual. Any wonder sarkey was slapping the head off the stupid hoor he should have kicked his hole aswell. But thats the voters job isnt it

Yes, he should show real leadership by tweeting about teddy bears.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on December 12, 2013, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 10:28:21 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:56:47 AM
You let him out of the cupboard for mandela's funeral and the gimp scribbles all over the mans book of condolence and disgraces the place as usual. Any wonder sarkey was slapping the head off the stupid hoor he should have kicked his hole aswell. But thats the voters job isnt it

Yes, he should show real leadership by tweeting about teddy bears.

Yes because clearly the longest serving party leader in Ireland and the man who brought the vast majority of republicans with him into the peace process has no leadership qualities. Unlike the man who just survived an attempt on his party leadership just before the role of Taoiseach was handed to him thanks to FF's collapse.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 12:38:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 12, 2013, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 10:28:21 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:56:47 AM
You let him out of the cupboard for mandela's funeral and the gimp scribbles all over the mans book of condolence and disgraces the place as usual. Any wonder sarkey was slapping the head off the stupid hoor he should have kicked his hole aswell. But thats the voters job isnt it

Yes, he should show real leadership by tweeting about teddy bears.

Yes because clearly the longest serving party leader in Ireland and the man who brought the vast majority of republicans with him into the peace process has no leadership qualities. Unlike the man who just survived an attempt on his party leadership just before the role of Taoiseach was handed to him thanks to FF's collapse.

Why is Enda the most popular leader in the polls and Gerry languishing in 3rd place? Oh I know, it's because we're all sheep, partitionists etc.
The economy would be on much sounder footing with the likes of Gerry calling the "shots" along with amazeyball TDs like Aonghus O'Snodaigh and Martin Ferris.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: JohnDenver on December 12, 2013, 01:54:12 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 12:38:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 12, 2013, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 10:28:21 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:56:47 AM
You let him out of the cupboard for mandela's funeral and the gimp scribbles all over the mans book of condolence and disgraces the place as usual. Any wonder sarkey was slapping the head off the stupid hoor he should have kicked his hole aswell. But thats the voters job isnt it

Yes, he should show real leadership by tweeting about teddy bears.

Yes because clearly the longest serving party leader in Ireland and the man who brought the vast majority of republicans with him into the peace process has no leadership qualities. Unlike the man who just survived an attempt on his party leadership just before the role of Taoiseach was handed to him thanks to FF's collapse.

Why is Enda the most popular leader in the polls and Gerry languishing in 3rd place? Oh I know, it's because we're all sheep, partitionists etc.
The economy would be on much sounder footing with the likes of Gerry calling the "shots" along with amazeyball TDs like Aonghus O'Snodaigh and Martin Ferris.

Finally, we seem to be getting somewhere  :P
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 12, 2013, 01:58:46 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 12, 2013, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 10:28:21 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:56:47 AM
You let him out of the cupboard for mandela's funeral and the gimp scribbles all over the mans book of condolence and disgraces the place as usual. Any wonder sarkey was slapping the head off the stupid hoor he should have kicked his hole aswell. But thats the voters job isnt it

Yes, he should show real leadership by tweeting about teddy bears.

Yes because clearly the longest serving party leader in Ireland and the man who brought the vast majority of republicans with him into the peace process has no leadership qualities. Unlike the man who just survived an attempt on his party leadership just before the role of Taoiseach was handed to him thanks to FF's collapse.

took an hour and 12 minutes to jump to Gerry's defence . Slipping up. :-\ :-[
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 03:05:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2013, 01:58:46 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 12, 2013, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 10:28:21 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:56:47 AM
You let him out of the cupboard for mandela's funeral and the gimp scribbles all over the mans book of condolence and disgraces the place as usual. Any wonder sarkey was slapping the head off the stupid hoor he should have kicked his hole aswell. But thats the voters job isnt it

Yes, he should show real leadership by tweeting about teddy bears.

Yes because clearly the longest serving party leader in Ireland and the man who brought the vast majority of republicans with him into the peace process has no leadership qualities. Unlike the man who just survived an attempt on his party leadership just before the role of Taoiseach was handed to him thanks to FF's collapse.

took an hour and 12 minutes to jump to Gerry's defence . Slipping up. :-\ :-[
Firstly ger doesnt represent ireland gimp does. Secondly this this a disgrace we are already a laughing stock without this emptyhead making it worse. 3rd the brits are splitting their sides laughing at thick paddy who couldnt spell the name of the most famous leader on the planet. Theres no excuse the mans a walking disaster.  Get back in that cupboard you fukn gimp
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 03:14:44 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 03:05:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2013, 01:58:46 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 12, 2013, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 10:28:21 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:56:47 AM
You let him out of the cupboard for mandela's funeral and the gimp scribbles all over the mans book of condolence and disgraces the place as usual. Any wonder sarkey was slapping the head off the stupid hoor he should have kicked his hole aswell. But thats the voters job isnt it

Yes, he should show real leadership by tweeting about teddy bears.

Yes because clearly the longest serving party leader in Ireland and the man who brought the vast majority of republicans with him into the peace process has no leadership qualities. Unlike the man who just survived an attempt on his party leadership just before the role of Taoiseach was handed to him thanks to FF's collapse.

took an hour and 12 minutes to jump to Gerry's defence . Slipping up. :-\ :-[
Firstly ger doesnt represent ireland gimp does. Secondly this this a disgrace we are already a laughing stock without this emptyhead making it worse. 3rd the brits are splitting their sides laughing at thick paddy who couldnt spell the name of the most famous leader on the planet. Theres no excuse the mans a walking disaster.  Get back in that cupboard you fukn gimp

We're no longer a laughing stock:
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/forbes-names-ireland-as-best-country-for-business-1.1617277 (http://www.irishtimes.com/business/forbes-names-ireland-as-best-country-for-business-1.1617277)
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ireland-begins-bailout-exit-today-616514.html (http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ireland-begins-bailout-exit-today-616514.html)

And I think if you were to measure international perceptions of Ireland, Gerry and his merry men would have done much more damage to our reputation than Enda and the current government could have possibly done.
And what is this cupboard you keep going on about?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: glens abu on December 12, 2013, 04:27:43 PM
Any figures for party leaders from las test IT poll?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on December 12, 2013, 04:40:21 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 12:38:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 12, 2013, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 10:28:21 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:56:47 AM
You let him out of the cupboard for mandela's funeral and the gimp scribbles all over the mans book of condolence and disgraces the place as usual. Any wonder sarkey was slapping the head off the stupid hoor he should have kicked his hole aswell. But thats the voters job isnt it

Yes, he should show real leadership by tweeting about teddy bears.

Yes because clearly the longest serving party leader in Ireland and the man who brought the vast majority of republicans with him into the peace process has no leadership qualities. Unlike the man who just survived an attempt on his party leadership just before the role of Taoiseach was handed to him thanks to FF's collapse.

Why is Enda the most popular leader in the polls and Gerry languishing in 3rd place? Oh I know, it's because we're all sheep, partitionists etc.
The economy would be on much sounder footing with the likes of Gerry calling the "shots" along with amazeyball TDs like Aonghus O'Snodaigh and Martin Ferris.
Popularity as a leader isn't all of being a good leader. Not that it matters, because Adams seems to top the opinion polls on "most popular" party leader more often than not. Feel free to re-read my points re him bringing the republican movement with him almost in it's entirety to the peace process ("probably the most capable politician we have. Possibly one of the most capable in Europe" (Fr Alec Reid in his ast ever interview). The fact that he is the longest serving party leader in the country, and a poll topper isn't bad. At lease when compared to Enda "leadership challenge" Kenny (who's contribution to a question from Adams in the Dáil yesterday re. executive salaries was answered by Inda with "but were you or were you not in the IRA, Gerry?". Inspirational stuff as always there, Enda.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 04:45:38 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 12, 2013, 04:27:43 PM
Any figures for party leaders from las test IT poll?

From rte:

Taoiseach Enda Kenny is the most popular party leader at 33%, up two, Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin is at 29%, also up two, Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams is at 27%, down two, while Labour leader Eamon Gilmore is at 19%, up four.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1211/492321-poll/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1211/492321-poll/)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: glens abu on December 12, 2013, 04:46:30 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 04:45:38 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 12, 2013, 04:27:43 PM
Any figures for party leaders from las test IT poll?

From rte:

Taoiseach Enda Kenny is the most popular party leader at 33%, up two, Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin is at 29%, also up two, Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams is at 27%, down two, while Labour leader Eamon Gilmore is at 19%, up four.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1211/492321-poll/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1211/492321-poll/)

Thanks
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 04:53:51 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 12, 2013, 04:40:21 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 12:38:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 12, 2013, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 10:28:21 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:56:47 AM
You let him out of the cupboard for mandela's funeral and the gimp scribbles all over the mans book of condolence and disgraces the place as usual. Any wonder sarkey was slapping the head off the stupid hoor he should have kicked his hole aswell. But thats the voters job isnt it

Yes, he should show real leadership by tweeting about teddy bears.

Yes because clearly the longest serving party leader in Ireland and the man who brought the vast majority of republicans with him into the peace process has no leadership qualities. Unlike the man who just survived an attempt on his party leadership just before the role of Taoiseach was handed to him thanks to FF's collapse.

Why is Enda the most popular leader in the polls and Gerry languishing in 3rd place? Oh I know, it's because we're all sheep, partitionists etc.
The economy would be on much sounder footing with the likes of Gerry calling the "shots" along with amazeyball TDs like Aonghus O'Snodaigh and Martin Ferris.
Popularity as a leader isn't all of being a good leader. Not that it matters, because Adams seems to top the opinion polls on "most popular" party leader more often than not. Feel free to re-read my points re him bringing the republican movement with him almost in it's entirety to the peace process ("probably the most capable politician we have. Possibly one of the most capable in Europe" (Fr Alec Reid in his ast ever interview). The fact that he is the longest serving party leader in the country, and a poll topper isn't bad. At lease when compared to Enda "leadership challenge" Kenny (who's contribution to a question from Adams in the Dáil yesterday re. executive salaries was answered by Inda with "but were you or were you not in the IRA, Gerry?". Inspirational stuff as always there, Enda.

See post above where Gerry Adams is actually 3rd most popular leader, and Enda Kenny is the most popular, not that it matters...
Fr Alec Reid might have been a great man, but he was hardly the most reputable of political analysts. It's not a great sign when you have to keep resorting to a priest's opinion on Gerry Adams to show his credentials. 
Gerry Adams is the longest serving leader, but he's only been a TD since 2011 so that has very little relevance to politics in the Dáil.
If you want to go down that line, Enda Kenny is longest serving TD in the Dáil and lead FG after the near meltdown in 2002 to being the largest party in 2011.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AQMP on December 12, 2013, 05:38:37 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 04:45:38 PM
Quote from: glens abu on December 12, 2013, 04:27:43 PM
Any figures for party leaders from las test IT poll?

From rte:

Taoiseach Enda Kenny is the most popular party leader at 33%, up two, Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin is at 29%, also up two, Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams is at 27%, down two, while Labour leader Eamon Gilmore is at 19%, up four.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1211/492321-poll/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1211/492321-poll/)

Wha' :o  Shurely shome mishtake!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 12, 2013, 06:32:56 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 03:05:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2013, 01:58:46 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 12, 2013, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 10:28:21 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:56:47 AM
You let him out of the cupboard for mandela's funeral and the gimp scribbles all over the mans book of condolence and disgraces the place as usual. Any wonder sarkey was slapping the head off the stupid hoor he should have kicked his hole aswell. But thats the voters job isnt it

Yes, he should show real leadership by tweeting about teddy bears.

Yes because clearly the longest serving party leader in Ireland and the man who brought the vast majority of republicans with him into the peace process has no leadership qualities. Unlike the man who just survived an attempt on his party leadership just before the role of Taoiseach was handed to him thanks to FF's collapse.

took an hour and 12 minutes to jump to Gerry's defence . Slipping up. :-\ :-[
Firstly ger doesnt represent ireland gimp does. Secondly this this a disgrace we are already a laughing stock without this emptyhead making it worse. 3rd the brits are splitting their sides laughing at thick paddy who couldnt spell the name of the most famous leader on the planet. Theres no excuse the mans a walking disaster.  Get back in that cupboard you fukn gimp

And you struggle to spell the leader of Ireland's name, you silly little SF fanboy.

Why do you care what the Brits think? Have you got a crisis of identity?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Saffrongael on December 12, 2013, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 12, 2013, 04:40:21 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 12:38:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 12, 2013, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 10:28:21 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:56:47 AM
You let him out of the cupboard for mandela's funeral and the gimp scribbles all over the mans book of condolence and disgraces the place as usual. Any wonder sarkey was slapping the head off the stupid hoor he should have kicked his hole aswell. But thats the voters job isnt it

Yes, he should show real leadership by tweeting about teddy bears.

Yes because clearly the longest serving party leader in Ireland and the man who brought the vast majority of republicans with him into the peace process has no leadership qualities. Unlike the man who just survived an attempt on his party leadership just before the role of Taoiseach was handed to him thanks to FF's collapse.

Why is Enda the most popular leader in the polls and Gerry languishing in 3rd place? Oh I know, it's because we're all sheep, partitionists etc.
The economy would be on much sounder footing with the likes of Gerry calling the "shots" along with amazeyball TDs like Aonghus O'Snodaigh and Martin Ferris.
Popularity as a leader isn't all of being a good leader. Not that it matters, because Adams seems to top the opinion polls on "most popular" party leader more often than not. Feel free to re-read my points re him bringing the republican movement with him almost in it's entirety to the peace process ("probably the most capable politician we have. Possibly one of the most capable in Europe" (Fr Alec Reid in his ast ever interview). The fact that he is the longest serving party leader in the country, and a poll topper isn't bad. At lease when compared to Enda "leadership challenge" Kenny (who's contribution to a question from Adams in the Dáil yesterday re. executive salaries was answered by Inda with "but were you or were you not in the IRA, Gerry?". Inspirational stuff as always there, Enda.

How does Adams rate when it comes to allowing a known paedophile work with children in Adams own constituency ?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on December 12, 2013, 07:12:16 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 04:53:51 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 12, 2013, 04:40:21 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 12:38:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 12, 2013, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 12, 2013, 10:28:21 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:56:47 AM
You let him out of the cupboard for mandela's funeral and the gimp scribbles all over the mans book of condolence and disgraces the place as usual. Any wonder sarkey was slapping the head off the stupid hoor he should have kicked his hole aswell. But thats the voters job isnt it

Yes, he should show real leadership by tweeting about teddy bears.

Yes because clearly the longest serving party leader in Ireland and the man who brought the vast majority of republicans with him into the peace process has no leadership qualities. Unlike the man who just survived an attempt on his party leadership just before the role of Taoiseach was handed to him thanks to FF's collapse.

Why is Enda the most popular leader in the polls and Gerry languishing in 3rd place? Oh I know, it's because we're all sheep, partitionists etc.
The economy would be on much sounder footing with the likes of Gerry calling the "shots" along with amazeyball TDs like Aonghus O'Snodaigh and Martin Ferris.
Popularity as a leader isn't all of being a good leader. Not that it matters, because Adams seems to top the opinion polls on "most popular" party leader more often than not. Feel free to re-read my points re him bringing the republican movement with him almost in it's entirety to the peace process ("probably the most capable politician we have. Possibly one of the most capable in Europe" (Fr Alec Reid in his ast ever interview). The fact that he is the longest serving party leader in the country, and a poll topper isn't bad. At lease when compared to Enda "leadership challenge" Kenny (who's contribution to a question from Adams in the Dáil yesterday re. executive salaries was answered by Inda with "but were you or were you not in the IRA, Gerry?". Inspirational stuff as always there, Enda.

See post above where Gerry Adams is actually 3rd most popular leader, and Enda Kenny is the most popular, not that it matters...
Fr Alec Reid might have been a great man, but he was hardly the most reputable of political analysts. It's not a great sign when you have to keep resorting to a priest's opinion on Gerry Adams to show his credentials. 
Gerry Adams is the longest serving leader, but he's only been a TD since 2011 so that has very little relevance to politics in the Dáil.
If you want to go down that line, Enda Kenny is longest serving TD in the Dáil and lead FG after the near meltdown in 2002 to being the largest party in 2011.
Adams didn't become a party leader when he crossed the border. He is Ireland's longest serving political leader. And I'm not "resorting" to the comments of Fr Reid (incidentally, why was he such a poor political analyst?), but I have also pointed out the fact that he oversaw a transition from violent to peaceful republican strategy with the support of the vast majority of his supporters. An achievement you repeatedly ignore. As you do with Inda's leadership challenge. As for your repeated references to today's opinion poll, how is it you casually ignore the countless such polls which regularly show Adams as the most popular leader?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:59:44 PM
Why does every thread turn into a sinn fein thread.

It IS a disgrace that the elected leader and face of this administration couldnt spell the name of the man who's funeral he sat 11hrs on the plane at taxpayers expense to attend. There is no excuse for scribbling over the mans book of condolence. There is no hiding from this no ifs or buts.. Its there for the whole world to see .
It has nothing to do with sinn fein or gerry adams.. Nothing!
The voters in the 26 elected a clown to represent them, hes not the first, and he wont be the last. Hes a laughing stock for the whole world to see.
Pres.obama had to issue an apology for disrespecting mandela when he was spotted laughing and taking "selfies"  the guy we have scribbles all over his book and hasnt the brains to make up an excuse and say sorry.. He just plods on like the gulpen he is. Hes as ignorant as soda bread at a wedding
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 12, 2013, 10:10:10 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:59:44 PM
The voters in the 26 elected a clown to represent them,
Why is a self confessed partirionist like yourself worrying about who the 26 Co voters  vote for? ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 10:22:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2013, 10:10:10 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:59:44 PM
The voters in the 26 elected a clown to represent them,
Why is a self confessed partirionist like yourself worrying about who the 26 Co voters  vote for? ;)
So what he did is ok? This time deal with the question
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 10:32:24 PM
Jeez I suppose we should be relieved he didnt make any speeches out there... Oh thank god :-[
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 12, 2013, 10:47:14 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 10:22:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2013, 10:10:10 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:59:44 PM
The voters in the 26 elected a clown to represent them,
Why is a self confessed partirionist like yourself worrying about who the 26 Co voters  vote for? ;)
So what he did is ok? This time deal with the question

Your faux indignation is laughable.

Don't you get the message yet, Sinn Fein are even more toxic than Fianna Fail.

Your probably the worst partitionist on this board.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 10:51:35 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 12, 2013, 10:47:14 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 10:22:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2013, 10:10:10 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:59:44 PM
The voters in the 26 elected a clown to represent them,
Why is a self confessed partirionist like yourself worrying about who the 26 Co voters  vote for? ;)
So what he did is ok? This time deal with the question

Your faux indignation is laughable.

Don't you get the message yet, Sinn Fein are even more toxic than Fianna Fail.

Your probably the worst partitionist on this board.
Answer the question!

Go on I dare you to try
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 12, 2013, 11:17:57 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 10:51:35 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 12, 2013, 10:47:14 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 10:22:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2013, 10:10:10 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:59:44 PM
The voters in the 26 elected a clown to represent them,
Why is a self confessed partirionist like yourself worrying about who the 26 Co voters  vote for? ;)
So what he did is ok? This time deal with the question


Your faux indignation is laughable.

Don't you get the message yet, Sinn Fein are even more toxic than Fianna Fail.

Your probably the worst partitionist on this board.
Answer the question!

Go on I dare you to try

Yes, to error is human, I have done the same myself.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on December 13, 2013, 01:06:30 AM
Yes to forget the promises you made during an election campaign is normal. Also to forget the lies you told..

To forget nelson mandelas name at his funeral..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 13, 2013, 07:44:44 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 13, 2013, 01:06:30 AM
To forget nelson mandelas name at his funeral..
Mandela's funeral hasn't yet taken place, so unless you can see into the future...
Kenny signed the book in Dublin.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on December 13, 2013, 09:57:07 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 10:22:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2013, 10:10:10 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 12, 2013, 09:59:44 PM
The voters in the 26 elected a clown to represent them,
Why is a self confessed partirionist like yourself worrying about who the 26 Co voters  vote for? ;)
So what he did is ok? This time deal with the question

Does this really bother you?? I doubt it very much. It certainly doesn't bother me. Spelling Mandela's tribal name incorrectly has no bearing on running the country.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 13, 2013, 10:30:01 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 13, 2013, 09:57:07 AM
Does this really bother you?? I doubt it very much. It certainly doesn't bother me. Spelling Mandela's tribal name incorrectly has no bearing on running the country.

It wouldn't bother me. But Enda stepped outside his comfort zone and it is perfectly fair to have a good ol' snigger at such pomposity.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on December 13, 2013, 09:57:16 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 13, 2013, 10:30:01 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 13, 2013, 09:57:07 AM
Does this really bother you?? I doubt it very much. It certainly doesn't bother me. Spelling Mandela's tribal name incorrectly has no bearing on running the country.

It wouldn't bother me. But Enda stepped outside his comfort zone and it is perfectly fair to have a good ol' snigger at such pomposity.
Were I in gers shoes i'd be asking him to spell things during dail questions sure it'd be something different to 'were you in the ira' everytime hes in a tight spot
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 14, 2013, 11:18:08 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on December 13, 2013, 09:57:16 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 13, 2013, 10:30:01 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 13, 2013, 09:57:07 AM
Does this really bother you?? I doubt it very much. It certainly doesn't bother me. Spelling Mandela's tribal name incorrectly has no bearing on running the country.

It wouldn't bother me. But Enda stepped outside his comfort zone and it is perfectly fair to have a good ol' snigger at such pomposity.
Were I in gers shoes i'd be asking him to spell things during dail questions sure it'd be something different to 'were you in the ira' everytime hes in a tight spot
Lawnseed - The GAABoard's Ambassador for Spelling
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 14, 2013, 01:27:55 PM
Just shows the level and quality of teachers in the south!

End of year report
Inda kinny
'Could do better'
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 15, 2013, 06:12:32 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 14, 2013, 01:27:55 PM
Just shows the level and quality of teachers in the south!

End of year report
Inda kinny
'Could do better'

Munster!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on December 15, 2013, 08:01:34 PM
Well he can spell IRA its the only thing hes told to say when ger asks him something.
Where the toilet edna? Its in the ira.
What day is it enda? Its ira day
Fukn gimp
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on December 19, 2013, 09:36:51 AM
The old public address didnt go so well. Gimps assertion that the worst is passed didnt wasnt backed up by his german bosses.

Well the worst has passed for gimp his admin "will" run full term and his pension is secure job done. Now he can get a job as a 'yes' man on some obscure european commitee and avoid losing face by trying to get re-elected here where he did his crap
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on December 19, 2013, 11:29:19 AM
Christmas present for you Lawnseed.
Maybe Enda spelt 'Madiba' wrong because he's fed up of everyone getting his name wrong.

This is in Ypres:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bb1xt1mIgAA-_JH.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on December 20, 2013, 04:49:25 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 19, 2013, 11:29:19 AM
Christmas present for you Lawnseed.
Maybe Enda spelt 'Madiba' wrong because he's fed up of everyone getting his name wrong.

This is in Ypres:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bb1xt1mIgAA-_JH.jpg)
What the fuks he doing in ypres?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 06:32:28 PM
Bump
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 10:16:53 PM
there's a headache for gimp Kenny. louise o keefes European court decision that in fact the state is liable for claims against state bodies guilty of child abuse is going to cost millions. mr 'rotten' bertie ahern's blank cheque to the religious orders absolving them of financial liability now bites the tax payer in the ass. instead of the state seizing their assets to pay the victims they're off scott free and joe public foots the bill not only the compensation but the legal costs as well
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 29, 2014, 10:56:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 10:16:53 PM
there's a headache for gimp Kenny. louise o keefes European court decision that in fact the state is liable for claims against state bodies guilty of child abuse is going to cost millions. 
instead of the state seizing their assets to pay the victims they're off scott free and joe public foots the bill not only the compensation but the legal costs as well
Whose assets? Teachers'???
The public always foot the bill - as it does for the diesel launderers, cigarette smugglers, bank robbers, banks, tax dodgers, dole cheats, creative accounting by well heeled etc etc etc.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 12:30:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 29, 2014, 10:56:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 10:16:53 PM
there's a headache for gimp Kenny. louise o keefes European court decision that in fact the state is liable for claims against state bodies guilty of child abuse is going to cost millions. 
instead of the state seizing their assets to pay the victims they're off scott free and joe public foots the bill not only the compensation but the legal costs as well
Whose assets? Teachers'???
The public always foot the bill - as it does for the diesel launderers, cigarette smugglers, bank robbers, banks, tax dodgers, dole cheats, creative accounting by well heeled etc etc etc.

Not to mention all the money spent on anti-terrorism.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: johnneycool on January 29, 2014, 03:19:20 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 12:30:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 29, 2014, 10:56:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 10:16:53 PM
there's a headache for gimp Kenny. louise o keefes European court decision that in fact the state is liable for claims against state bodies guilty of child abuse is going to cost millions. 
instead of the state seizing their assets to pay the victims they're off scott free and joe public foots the bill not only the compensation but the legal costs as well
Whose assets? Teachers'???
The public always foot the bill - as it does for the diesel launderers, cigarette smugglers, bank robbers, banks, tax dodgers, dole cheats, creative accounting by well heeled etc etc etc.

Not to mention all the money spent on anti-terrorism.

Ha ha,
     There were more guards sent north to man the border crossings the time of the foot and mouth scare than there ever was any time during the troubles. And that was told to me by a Tipperary guard stationed in Thurles who was shipped up to Monaghan at the time. Sure Joe Hayes liked it so much he stayed for a while and hurled for Monaghan.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 03:25:50 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 29, 2014, 03:19:20 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 12:30:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 29, 2014, 10:56:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 10:16:53 PM
there's a headache for gimp Kenny. louise o keefes European court decision that in fact the state is liable for claims against state bodies guilty of child abuse is going to cost millions. 
instead of the state seizing their assets to pay the victims they're off scott free and joe public foots the bill not only the compensation but the legal costs as well
Whose assets? Teachers'???
The public always foot the bill - as it does for the diesel launderers, cigarette smugglers, bank robbers, banks, tax dodgers, dole cheats, creative accounting by well heeled etc etc etc.

Not to mention all the money spent on anti-terrorism.

Ha ha,
     There were more guards sent north to man the border crossings the time of the foot and mouth scare than there ever was any time during the troubles. And that was told to me by a Tipperary guard stationed in Thurles who was shipped up to Monaghan at the time. Sure Joe Hayes liked it so much he stayed for a while and hurled for Monaghan.

Smuggled cattle to that list too  ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 29, 2014, 05:56:05 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 29, 2014, 03:19:20 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 12:30:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 29, 2014, 10:56:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 10:16:53 PM
there's a headache for gimp Kenny. louise o keefes European court decision that in fact the state is liable for claims against state bodies guilty of child abuse is going to cost millions. 
instead of the state seizing their assets to pay the victims they're off scott free and joe public foots the bill not only the compensation but the legal costs as well
Whose assets? Teachers'???
The public always foot the bill - as it does for the diesel launderers, cigarette smugglers, bank robbers, banks, tax dodgers, dole cheats, creative accounting by well heeled etc etc etc.

Not to mention all the money spent on anti-terrorism.

Ha ha,
     There were more guards sent north to man the border crossings the time of the foot and mouth scare than there ever was any time during the troubles. And that was told to me by a Tipperary guard stationed in Thurles who was shipped up to Monaghan at the time. Sure Joe Hayes liked it so much he stayed for a while and hurled for Monaghan.

I'd believe that, remember they stopped sports fixtures and introduced immigration procedures at ports even dafter than the security ones we have now. Anyone remember standing in a basin filled with a sponge with some dip on it?

The farming lobby know how to make politicians dance, despite being a relatively small part of the economy.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 07:11:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 29, 2014, 05:56:05 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 29, 2014, 03:19:20 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 12:30:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 29, 2014, 10:56:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 10:16:53 PM
there's a headache for gimp Kenny. louise o keefes European court decision that in fact the state is liable for claims against state bodies guilty of child abuse is going to cost millions. 
instead of the state seizing their assets to pay the victims they're off scott free and joe public foots the bill not only the compensation but the legal costs as well
Whose assets? Teachers'???
The public always foot the bill - as it does for the diesel launderers, cigarette smugglers, bank robbers, banks, tax dodgers, dole cheats, creative accounting by well heeled etc etc etc.

Not to mention all the money spent on anti-terrorism.

Ha ha,
     There were more guards sent north to man the border crossings the time of the foot and mouth scare than there ever was any time during the troubles. And that was told to me by a Tipperary guard stationed in Thurles who was shipped up to Monaghan at the time. Sure Joe Hayes liked it so much he stayed for a while and hurled for Monaghan.

I'd believe that, remember they stopped sports fixtures and introduced immigration procedures at ports even dafter than the security ones we have now. Anyone remember standing in a basin filled with a sponge with some dip on it?

The farming lobby know how to make politicians dance, despite being a relatively small part of the economy.

NFL Champions 2001
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on January 29, 2014, 10:49:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 29, 2014, 10:56:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 10:16:53 PM
there's a headache for gimp Kenny. louise o keefes European court decision that in fact the state is liable for claims against state bodies guilty of child abuse is going to cost millions. 
instead of the state seizing their assets to pay the victims they're off scott free and joe public foots the bill not only the compensation but the legal costs as well
Whose assets? Teachers'???
The public always foot the bill - as it does for the diesel launderers, cigarette smugglers, bank robbers, banks, tax dodgers, dole cheats, creative accounting by well heeled etc etc etc.
I was referring to the religious orders assets. but since were are on the subject why not the assets of teachers convicted. why not sell their house, their car, their clothes and everything belonging to them and give the money to their victims
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 30, 2014, 10:54:42 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 29, 2014, 10:49:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 29, 2014, 10:56:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 10:16:53 PM
there's a headache for gimp Kenny. louise o keefes European court decision that in fact the state is liable for claims against state bodies guilty of child abuse is going to cost millions. 
instead of the state seizing their assets to pay the victims they're off scott free and joe public foots the bill not only the compensation but the legal costs as well
Whose assets? Teachers'???
The public always foot the bill - as it does for the diesel launderers, cigarette smugglers, bank robbers, banks, tax dodgers, dole cheats, creative accounting by well heeled etc etc etc.
I was referring to the religious orders assets. but since were are on the subject why not the assets of teachers convicted. why not sell their house, their car, their clothes and everything belonging to them and give the money to their victims
For a start then the State ( me and the rest of us in the 26 Cos would have to pay their wives Social Welfare, provide them with a House, Medical Card etc etc. You'd have a whole lot of new victims ( i.e the teachers' wives and children).
Now that all these awful abuses are out in the open let's hope that the procedures and checks etc will mean little or no recurrences in future and that  the State can spend more time dealing with  the diesel launderers, cigarette smugglers, bank robbers, banks, tax dodgers, dole cheats, creative accounting by well heeled etc etc etc.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Antrim Coaster on January 30, 2014, 11:33:04 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 29, 2014, 03:19:20 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 29, 2014, 12:30:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 29, 2014, 10:56:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 28, 2014, 10:16:53 PM
there's a headache for gimp Kenny. louise o keefes European court decision that in fact the state is liable for claims against state bodies guilty of child abuse is going to cost millions. 
instead of the state seizing their assets to pay the victims they're off scott free and joe public foots the bill not only the compensation but the legal costs as well
Whose assets? Teachers'???
The public always foot the bill - as it does for the diesel launderers, cigarette smugglers, bank robbers, banks, tax dodgers, dole cheats, creative accounting by well heeled etc etc etc.

Not to mention all the money spent on anti-terrorism.

Ha ha,
     There were more guards sent north to man the border crossings the time of the foot and mouth scare than there ever was any time during the troubles. And that was told to me by a Tipperary guard stationed in Thurles who was shipped up to Monaghan at the time. Sure Joe Hayes liked it so much he stayed for a while and hurled for Monaghan.


Think Joe was quite fond of keeping very late hours in an establishment in Emyvale which may have influenced his decision to remain in Monaghan.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 31, 2014, 11:19:54 PM
I wonder how will the pylons issue affect FG?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: sans pessimism on February 01, 2014, 12:30:27 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 31, 2014, 11:19:54 PM
I wonder how will the pylons issue affect FG?
The POLES will tell them  ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on February 01, 2014, 08:14:51 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on February 01, 2014, 12:30:27 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 31, 2014, 11:19:54 PM
I wonder how will the pylons issue affect FG?
The POLES will tell them  ;)
They' ll just lie their way out of it as usual
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: sans pessimism on February 01, 2014, 09:12:54 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 01, 2014, 08:14:51 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on February 01, 2014, 12:30:27 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 31, 2014, 11:19:54 PM
I wonder how will the pylons issue affect FG?
The POLES will tell them  ;)
They' ll just lie their way out of it as usual
why do you always pyle on the pressure on the poor craturs  :'(
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 02, 2014, 07:32:22 AM
Quote from: sans pessimism on February 01, 2014, 09:12:54 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 01, 2014, 08:14:51 PM
Quote from: sans pessimism on February 01, 2014, 12:30:27 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 31, 2014, 11:19:54 PM
I wonder how will the pylons issue affect FG?
The POLES will tell them  ;)
They' ll just lie their way out of it as usual
why do you always pyle on the pressure on the poor craturs  :'(

:D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on February 09, 2014, 01:21:18 PM
Mothet of jeez! The gimp on rte radio 1 now. Blithering idiot!! Rte giving him a dummy to suck. You wouldnt hear shite like this in a mental hospital. Disgrace. Never heard such a soft interview sean o rourke should quit he let the gimp away with absolute shite talk never challanged him on a single issue the only shite he didnt trot out was gerrys ira spiel
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on February 09, 2014, 01:47:00 PM
Gerry on now.. Just wait to hear the difference
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on February 09, 2014, 02:23:12 PM
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/boxoffrogs_zpseb458474.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/boxoffrogs_zpseb458474.png.html)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on February 09, 2014, 03:59:02 PM
E
Quote from: lawnseed on February 09, 2014, 01:47:00 PM
Gerry on now.. Just wait to hear the difference
Following gers blast at ff  at the ar deish he was asked whether he'd enter a coalition with ff? he'd already said he'd prefer an alignment of leftest parties and wouldnt enter government with anyone for the sake of being in government as labour had. Afterwards rte sum up the interview "adams doesnt rule out ff coalition" true but not really the gist of what was said. No mention of gimp because he'd take the huff and not give any more "interviews" if thats what you'd call what he gets away with.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 10, 2014, 07:21:26 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 09, 2014, 03:59:02 PM
E
Quote from: lawnseed on February 09, 2014, 01:47:00 PM
Gerry on now.. Just wait to hear the difference
Following gers blast at ff  at the ar deish he was asked whether he'd enter a coalition with ff? he'd already said he'd prefer an alignment of leftest parties and wouldnt enter government with anyone for the sake of being in government as labour had. Afterwards rte sum up the interview "adams doesnt rule out ff coalition" true but not really the gist of what was said. No mention of gimp because he'd take the huff and not give any more "interviews" if thats what you'd call what he gets away with.
Is it not enough to butcher English?

And if Adams thinks he has any hope of forming a 'left' government in Ireland, he's even further removed from reality than we already thought. If SF make gains at the next Dail election, it will most likely be at the expense of Labour - that's a switch from one 'left' party to another, with no significant increase in the 'left' block. That's before we actually consider just how 'left' any of the parties are likely to be when faced with the realities of government. Fine Gael wouldn't go near SF for a coalition, but FF would and SF would sell their granny to join them.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 10, 2014, 10:21:39 PM
Ah sure everyone will want to join SF in a Coalition - they're going to get rid of a load of taxes and improve public services. 8) 8)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 10, 2014, 10:32:27 PM
Who do you think lawnseed should lead FG?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on February 10, 2014, 11:11:35 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 10, 2014, 07:21:26 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 09, 2014, 03:59:02 PM
E
Quote from: lawnseed on February 09, 2014, 01:47:00 PM
Gerry on now.. Just wait to hear the difference
Following gers blast at ff  at the ar deish he was asked whether he'd enter a coalition with ff? he'd already said he'd prefer an alignment of leftest parties and wouldnt enter government with anyone for the sake of being in government as labour had. Afterwards rte sum up the interview "adams doesnt rule out ff coalition" true but not really the gist of what was said. No mention of gimp because he'd take the huff and not give any more "interviews" if thats what you'd call what he gets away with.
Is it not enough to butcher English?

And if Adams thinks he has any hope of forming a 'left' government in Ireland, he's even further removed from reality than we already thought. If SF make gains at the next Dail election, it will most likely be at the expense of Labour - that's a switch from one 'left' party to another, with no significant increase in the 'left' block. That's before we actually consider just how 'left' any of the parties are likely to be when faced with the realities of government. Fine Gael wouldn't go near SF for a coalition, but FF would and SF would sell their granny to join them.
so thats the stoops and shinners trying to join ff.  ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on February 10, 2014, 11:15:40 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 10, 2014, 10:32:27 PM
Who do you think lawnseed should lead FG?
the choice is obvious.. marguerite thatcher even dead there's more life in her than gimp.

Richard bruton
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on February 12, 2014, 10:19:27 AM
your man the boxer..  ::) ffs another Graeme gerity.. you couldn't make it up
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 12, 2014, 06:37:25 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 12, 2014, 10:19:27 AM
your man the boxer..  ::) ffs another Graeme gerity.. you couldn't make it up

Even if you could, you couldn't spell it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on March 01, 2014, 03:33:06 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 12, 2014, 06:37:25 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 12, 2014, 10:19:27 AM
your man the boxer..  ::) ffs another Graeme gerity.. you couldn't make it up

Even if you, could you couldn't spell it.

Yeah.. Pearse V's no name failed exboxer. That bout wouldnt last long.. About 30secs
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 26, 2014, 10:29:48 PM
It's a wonder this controversy hasn't Shattered the blueshirts.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 26, 2014, 10:43:38 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 12, 2014, 10:19:27 AM
your man the boxer..  ::) ffs another Graeme gerity.. you couldn't make it up

A boxer over a bomber anyday  :P
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 26, 2014, 10:47:40 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 26, 2014, 10:29:48 PM
It's a wonder this controversy hasn't Shattered the blueshirts.

They deserve a Fine big kick up the arse.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on March 26, 2014, 11:50:07 PM
http://www.judecollins.com/2014/03/justice-alan-shatter-wheels-come/

Not content with squeezing the people of the south financially until the pips squeaked, the Fine Gael/Labour coalition have now revealed themselves as people who run a state where the guardians of the law and their boss are about as competent as Homer Simpson after a night in a brewery. Where to start?

1.  The gardaí were running a system where drivers who got into trouble on the penalty points system could, if they were well enough connected, get someone probably higher up in the gardaí to wipe their slate clean. If they weren't well enough connected, tough titty. Hardly equality under the law/cherishing all the children of the nation equally, wouldn't you say?

2. The discussions, telephone calls and emails of the office of the Garda Ombudsman were found to have been hacked. So the communication of people who might have been keeping the gardaí in line is  illegally penetrated by...well, who can say? I suppose someone with an interest in the doings of the Garda Ombudsman's office. Go figger.

3. The gardaí were running a system whereby the telephone discussions – thousands of them – coming into and going out of many garda stations were taped. That'd include confidential discussions between someone being charged and their solicitor. This is against the law and has been going on for a long time, so potentially thousands of cases where people were found guilty may now at best be questionable.

4. The Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan wrote to the Department of Justice pointing out this appalling practice and asking specifically that the Minister for Justice, Alan Shatter,  be informed. That was over two weeks ago. Astonishingly, Mr Shatter didn't get the letter until Monday. You believe that? No, don't answer. Your reply could be bugged.

5. The Fianna Fail leader, Micheál Martin, is very upset about all this and is calling for heads to roll. The letter sent by Callinan shows that this bugging by garda stations was something that stretches back into the 1990s. And who was in government in the 1990s? Why our old comrades in arms, the Soldiers of Destiny themselves, Fianna Fail. And who was in the Cabinet for three years during the 1990s? Why sure who else would it be only the bould Micheál himself. But of course neither Micheál nor his party, fabled for their moral integrity, would have known anything about any bugging. Honest, Your Honour. Which is why all this comes as such an ethical shock to Micheál.

I wonder now will unionists believe northern nationalists and republicans, when they say a united Ireland would not, repeat not, involve the north being swallowed whole by the south.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 27, 2014, 12:20:06 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 26, 2014, 11:50:07 PM
http://www.judecollins.com/2014/03/justice-alan-shatter-wheels-come/

Not content with squeezing the people of the south financially until the pips squeaked, the Fine Gael/Labour coalition have now revealed themselves as people who run a state where the guardians of the law and their boss are about as competent as Homer Simpson after a night in a brewery. Where to start?

1.  The gardaí were running a system where drivers who got into trouble on the penalty points system could, if they were well enough connected, get someone probably higher up in the gardaí to wipe their slate clean. If they weren't well enough connected, tough titty. Hardly equality under the law/cherishing all the children of the nation equally, wouldn't you say?

2. The discussions, telephone calls and emails of the office of the Garda Ombudsman were found to have been hacked. So the communication of people who might have been keeping the gardaí in line is  illegally penetrated by...well, who can say? I suppose someone with an interest in the doings of the Garda Ombudsman's office. Go figger.

3. The gardaí were running a system whereby the telephone discussions – thousands of them – coming into and going out of many garda stations were taped. That'd include confidential discussions between someone being charged and their solicitor. This is against the law and has been going on for a long time, so potentially thousands of cases where people were found guilty may now at best be questionable.

4. The Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan wrote to the Department of Justice pointing out this appalling practice and asking specifically that the Minister for Justice, Alan Shatter,  be informed. That was over two weeks ago. Astonishingly, Mr Shatter didn't get the letter until Monday. You believe that? No, don't answer. Your reply could be bugged.

5. The Fianna Fail leader, Micheál Martin, is very upset about all this and is calling for heads to roll. The letter sent by Callinan shows that this bugging by garda stations was something that stretches back into the 1990s. And who was in government in the 1990s? Why our old comrades in arms, the Soldiers of Destiny themselves, Fianna Fail. And who was in the Cabinet for three years during the 1990s? Why sure who else would it be only the bould Micheál himself. But of course neither Micheál nor his party, fabled for their moral integrity, would have known anything about any bugging. Honest, Your Honour. Which is why all this comes as such an ethical shock to Micheál.

I wonder now will unionists believe northern nationalists and republicans, when they say a united Ireland would not, repeat not, involve the north being swallowed whole by the south.

Well as long as they aren't doing anything bad to the people of the West or East of Ireland.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 27, 2014, 09:37:27 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 26, 2014, 11:50:07 PM
I wonder now will unionists believe northern nationalists and republicans, when they say a united Ireland would not, repeat not, involve the north being swallowed whole by the south.
The incompetent politicians in the north can join with the incompetent politicians in the south to bring incompetence to a whole new level. It's definitely something to look forward to.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Nally Stand on March 27, 2014, 11:12:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 27, 2014, 09:37:27 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 26, 2014, 11:50:07 PM
I wonder now will unionists believe northern nationalists and republicans, when they say a united Ireland would not, repeat not, involve the north being swallowed whole by the south.
The incompetent politicians in the north can join with the incompetent politicians in the south to bring incompetence to a whole new level. It's definitely something to look forward to.

Glass half empty Maguire? Well sure at least when the time comes,  we can all be incompetent together  :)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Minder on May 29, 2014, 08:50:51 PM
Enda dances to "Happy".......

http://m.independent.ie/lifestyle/ThreeTrending/taoiseach-enda-kenny-dances-fine-gaels-election-woes-away-30315496.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on September 29, 2014, 05:10:40 PM
What's next for the current government?

Phil Hogan denying he signed off on water charge startup costs of 40 million then has to backtrack.

Then we have Frank Feighan elbowing a elderly man in the stomach about 5 times because he tries to ask the taoiseach a question.
http://www.theliberal.ie/video-fine-gael-td-frank-feighan-elbows-elderly-man-out-of-the-way-for-enda-kenny/

god forbid enda kenny has to think on his feet.

If this isn't enough to show the irish public what their government and elected officials really thinks of them then nothing will. This is the same way as Fianna Fail behaved last time around. There is no difference and certainly no accountability.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 29, 2014, 05:44:13 PM
The "elderly man" is a By Election candidate and former Co goalkeeper. ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on September 29, 2014, 06:01:47 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 29, 2014, 05:44:13 PM
The "elderly man" is a By Election candidate and former Co goalkeeper. ;)

Either way no older gentleman deserves to get a few chops the ribs in such a manner. I hope Feighan gets done for assault.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on September 30, 2014, 06:12:36 PM
Jobs for the boys...Transparency is key at FG?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/hilary-quinlan-should-quit-irish-water-ex-fg-minister-says-1.1946690

Fianna Fáil's Barry Cowen also said this afternoon that it is time for Mr Quinlan to "get out of the car or get off the board". LOL
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 01, 2014, 04:23:54 PM
What I can't fathom is mghu's 'disappearance' since before the local elections in May. He was good craic trying to defend his party's ways. What would he make of the mess they're currently in?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 01, 2014, 04:42:17 PM
Maybe he got elected to Mayo County Council  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2014, 09:11:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2014, 04:42:17 PM
Maybe he got elected to Mayo County Council  ;D ;D
Or else he got a job by being Enda's crony!!! ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 22, 2014, 02:18:16 AM
PMSL. Fat buffoon
Shows you what sort of person is involved in the running of the country. Will go to any length to back the water charges.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-senator-faces-ridicule-4477860

and I know it's a labour TD but these days it's hard to tell the difference. Easy to say this sort of thing when not in government. Theres promises for you....

http://www.labour.ie/press/2009/12/08/move-to-domestic-water-charges-a-retrograde-step/

one word. liar.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 22, 2014, 12:06:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 22, 2014, 02:18:16 AM
PMSL. Fat buffoon
Shows you what sort of person is involved in the running of the country. Will go to any length to back the water charges.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-senator-faces-ridicule-4477860

and I know it's a labour TD but these days it's hard to tell the difference. Easy to say this sort of thing when not in government. Theres promises for you....

http://www.labour.ie/press/2009/12/08/move-to-domestic-water-charges-a-retrograde-step/

one word. liar.

Did anyone find it ironic when Enda Kenny complained about Sinn Fein trying to cover up a rape? Some would say he's doing the same. Some would say he's been covering up the financial rape of this country's citizens for the last 3 years.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on October 22, 2014, 12:22:29 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 22, 2014, 12:06:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 22, 2014, 02:18:16 AM
PMSL. Fat buffoon
Shows you what sort of person is involved in the running of the country. Will go to any length to back the water charges.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-senator-faces-ridicule-4477860

and I know it's a labour TD but these days it's hard to tell the difference. Easy to say this sort of thing when not in government. Theres promises for you....

http://www.labour.ie/press/2009/12/08/move-to-domestic-water-charges-a-retrograde-step/

one word. liar.

Did anyone find it ironic when Enda Kenny complained about Sinn Fein trying to cover up a rape? Some would say he's doing the same. Some would say he's been covering up the financial rape of this country's citizens for the last 3 years.

If you were born in the last 3 years, this would be fair comment.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 22, 2014, 03:27:25 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 22, 2014, 12:06:55 PM

Did anyone find it ironic when Enda Kenny complained about Sinn Fein trying to cover up a rape? Some would say he's doing the same. Some would say he's been covering up the financial rape of this country's citizens for the last 3 years.
I'd say you're the only one who thinks it's ironic.
We were told what it would cost the Citizens of this State back at the time of the bail out in 2010 when FF had to take the blinkers off ( remember Brian Lenihan's comment in late 08 about the "cheapest bank bail out in history" of around €2.8Bn ::))
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 22, 2014, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2014, 03:27:25 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 22, 2014, 12:06:55 PM

Did anyone find it ironic when Enda Kenny complained about Sinn Fein trying to cover up a rape? Some would say he's doing the same. Some would say he's been covering up the financial rape of this country's citizens for the last 3 years.
I'd say you're the only one who thinks it's ironic.
We were told what it would cost the Citizens of this State back at the time of the bail out in 2010 when FF had to take the blinkers off ( remember Brian Lenihan's comment in late 08 about the "cheapest bank bail out in history" of around €2.8Bn ::))

At least Fianna Fail tried to charm and used some lubricant.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 22, 2014, 08:51:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 22, 2014, 02:18:16 AM
PMSL. Fat buffoon
Shows you what sort of person is involved in the running of the country. Will go to any length to back the water charges.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-senator-faces-ridicule-4477860

and I know it's a labour TD but these days it's hard to tell the difference. Easy to say this sort of thing when not in government. Theres promises for you....

http://www.labour.ie/press/2009/12/08/move-to-domestic-water-charges-a-retrograde-step/

one word. liar.
Indeed, makes you wonder about the promises being made by those currently in opposition, doesn't it?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: manfromdelmonte on October 22, 2014, 09:01:48 PM
Convenient FG and FF are pushing this issue right now.
To deflect problems with Irish Water? Poor by election results?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on October 22, 2014, 09:04:34 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 22, 2014, 09:01:48 PM
Convenient FG and FF are pushing this issue right now.
To deflect problems with Irish Water? Poor by election results?

Yes of course, sexual abuse stories linking heads of parties are non-events really.

Imagine the Shinners if Kenny or Martin were involved.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 23, 2014, 10:59:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 22, 2014, 09:04:34 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 22, 2014, 09:01:48 PM
Convenient FG and FF are pushing this issue right now.
To deflect problems with Irish Water? Poor by election results?

Yes of course, sexual abuse stories linking heads of parties are non-events really.

Imagine the Shinners if Kenny or Martin were involved.
+1.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 23, 2014, 07:40:08 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 22, 2014, 09:01:48 PM
Convenient FG and FF are pushing this issue right now.
To deflect problems with Irish Water? Poor by election results?
Should they have ignored the issue?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 23, 2014, 08:48:14 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 22, 2014, 09:01:48 PM
Convenient FG and FF are pushing this issue right now.
To deflect problems with Irish Water? Poor by election results?

SF had poor by election results as well in case you didn't notice.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 23, 2014, 09:02:04 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 22, 2014, 09:01:48 PM
Convenient FG and FF are pushing this issue right now.
To deflect problems with Irish Water? Poor by election results?

Perhaps because it is in the news now?
SF complaining about people calling them out on this is a bit like a Tyrone person complaining about diving.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mrdeeds on October 23, 2014, 09:03:47 PM
Frank Feighan has some neck. Check out his twitter feed. Naming a new wing of hospital after himself after being responsible for closing of A and E services. Couldn't make it up.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 23, 2014, 09:32:20 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on October 23, 2014, 09:03:47 PM
Frank Feighan has some neck. Check out his twitter feed. Naming a new wing of hospital after himself after being responsible for closing of A and E services. Couldn't make it up.
He's a bloody politician - it goes with the territory.
Meanwhile in other news Pope Francis is a Catholic...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 24, 2014, 05:30:34 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on October 23, 2014, 09:03:47 PM
Frank Feighan has some neck. Check out his twitter feed. Naming a new wing of hospital after himself after being responsible for closing of A and E services. Couldn't make it up.

That is just unbelievable. It's not his money. Who lets them away with this?
He really has a brass neck, just like the rest of these parasites in his party.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 17, 2014, 09:40:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

FF, FG & SF voted for the Bank Guarantee. Everything else is a consequence of that.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:48:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 17, 2014, 09:40:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

FF, FG & SF voted for the Bank Guarantee. Everything else is a consequence of that.

What I'm more puzzled by is the statements by Enda regarding sinister elements. Are the people of the state considered sinister?

Who is he telling? The people who voted him in or the people he is really serving.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 17, 2014, 09:58:27 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:48:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 17, 2014, 09:40:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

FF, FG & SF voted for the Bank Guarantee. Everything else is a consequence of that.

What I'm more puzzled by is the statements by Enda regarding sinister elements. Are the people of the state considered sinister?

Who is he telling? The people who voted him in or the people he is really serving.

He is serving the Troika. Just like the rest of us are and the next few Governments will do as well.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on November 17, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 17, 2014, 10:33:34 PM
Will the government fall before Spring 2016?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 17, 2014, 10:53:05 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 17, 2014, 10:33:34 PM
Will the government fall before Spring 2016?

No and no one wants it to either.

Labour will be terrified of an election at any time and FG will have told their increasingly squeamish troops that next years budget will be a giveaway. They will go the distance.

Gerry & SF need to appear all stately between now and then as they plan to be in the next Government. Fighting on the streets will not help them so we won't see any from them, but equally keeping everyone on message needs a lot of promises. The promises will only be a problem after the election.

FF will go into Government with anyone next time. But they are in no rush to an election either as the collapse is still fresh in some memories, even if many seem to have forgotten how we got here.

The lunatic fringe of a left leaning are behind the most public of the current protests. The questionable behaviour is to make sure that no ordinary people like most of us here, join up. They don't want us. They have their niche and run a crusade every few years (bin tax, property tax etc.) but are not serious about actually getting anywhere. The organisers make a great living off the easily led, but there are very few of them remotely genuine.

So, as no one wants an election in the short term, I honestly can't see one happening.

Which means there will probably be one in 8 weeks.  ;D

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 18, 2014, 03:49:34 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 17, 2014, 09:58:27 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:48:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 17, 2014, 09:40:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

FF, FG & SF voted for the Bank Guarantee. Everything else is a consequence of that.

What I'm more puzzled by is the statements by Enda regarding sinister elements. Are the people of the state considered sinister?

Who is he telling? The people who voted him in or the people he is really serving.

He is serving the Troika. Just like the rest of us are and the next few Governments will do as well.
It's still hard to fathom why someone who holds the public with so much contempt has any popular support at all.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 18, 2014, 03:55:02 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 17, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??

I agree it's probably too late to change this but it appears the public are fed up of being lied to when its fairly obvious what the government are up to.

The mindset of the irish people needed to change. For too long they have accepted being screwed over by their overlords, both irish and foreign.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on November 18, 2014, 10:19:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 18, 2014, 03:55:02 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 17, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??

I agree it's probably too late to change this but it appears the public are fed up of being lied to when its fairly obvious what the government are up to.

The mindset of the irish people needed to change. For too long they have accepted being screwed over by their overlords, both irish and foreign.

Was just looking online there and in FGs 2011 manifesto, it clearly states that a new water utility company will be established and water will be charged for. I couldn't find the labour manifesto but as far as I recall they had that policy also. FF for all their talk now were going to introduce the same sort of setup. Not sure was SF policy on it was

As such, the water charges shouldn't be a shock to anyone - the majority of people voted for parties who said upfront that they'd introduce them.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 18, 2014, 10:37:04 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 18, 2014, 10:19:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 18, 2014, 03:55:02 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 17, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??

I agree it's probably too late to change this but it appears the public are fed up of being lied to when its fairly obvious what the government are up to.

The mindset of the irish people needed to change. For too long they have accepted being screwed over by their overlords, both irish and foreign.

Was just looking online there and in FGs 2011 manifesto, it clearly states that a new water utility company will be established and water will be charged for. I couldn't find the labour manifesto but as far as I recall they had that policy also. FF for all their talk now were going to introduce the same sort of setup. Not sure was SF policy on it was

As such, the water charges shouldn't be a shock to anyone - the majority of people voted for parties who said upfront that they'd introduce them.

It was also in the Troika (IMF) deal signed by Lenihan in 2010.

The protests are being run by people with their own agendas.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 18, 2014, 11:08:14 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 17, 2014, 10:53:05 PM

Labour will be terrified of an election at any time and FG will have told their increasingly squeamish troops that next years budget will be a giveaway. They will go the distance.

Gerry & SF need to appear all stately between now and then as they plan to be in the next Government. Fighting on the streets will not help them so we won't see any from them, but equally keeping everyone on message needs a lot of promises. The promises will only be a problem after the election.

FF will go into Government with anyone next time. But they are in no rush to an election either as the collapse is still fresh in some memories, even if many seem to have forgotten how we got here.

The lunatic fringe of a left leaning are behind the most public of the current protests. The questionable behaviour is to make sure that no ordinary people like most of us here, join up. They don't want us. They have their niche and run a crusade every few years (bin tax, property tax etc.) but are not serious about actually getting anywhere. The organisers make a great living off the easily led, but there are very few of them remotely genuine.

So, as no one wants an election in the short term, I honestly can't see one happening.


Excellent post Muppet and so spot on.
As far as I recall the Troika loans won't be paid off till 2042 so we can get used to them making us stick to the agreement they imposed on FF in 2010.
As for the loony left eejits - they're not doing the anti water charge position much good with their thuggery - just showing what we could expect if they ever got anywhere - bit like Germany in the early 30s.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on November 18, 2014, 11:26:07 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 18, 2014, 10:19:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 18, 2014, 03:55:02 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 17, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??

I agree it's probably too late to change this but it appears the public are fed up of being lied to when its fairly obvious what the government are up to.

The mindset of the irish people needed to change. For too long they have accepted being screwed over by their overlords, both irish and foreign.

Was just looking online there and in FGs 2011 manifesto, it clearly states that a new water utility company will be established and water will be charged for. I couldn't find the labour manifesto but as far as I recall they had that policy also. FF for all their talk now were going to introduce the same sort of setup. Not sure was SF policy on it was

As such, the water charges shouldn't be a shock to anyone - the majority of people voted for parties who said upfront that they'd introduce them.

http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/labour_election_manifesto_2011.pdf (http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/labour_election_manifesto_2011.pdf)

"Labour does not favour water charges, which do not address the immediate needs of those who currently receive intermittent or poor water supplies."
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on November 18, 2014, 11:31:08 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 18, 2014, 11:26:07 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 18, 2014, 10:19:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 18, 2014, 03:55:02 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 17, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??

I agree it's probably too late to change this but it appears the public are fed up of being lied to when its fairly obvious what the government are up to.

The mindset of the irish people needed to change. For too long they have accepted being screwed over by their overlords, both irish and foreign.

Was just looking online there and in FGs 2011 manifesto, it clearly states that a new water utility company will be established and water will be charged for. I couldn't find the labour manifesto but as far as I recall they had that policy also. FF for all their talk now were going to introduce the same sort of setup. Not sure was SF policy on it was

As such, the water charges shouldn't be a shock to anyone - the majority of people voted for parties who said upfront that they'd introduce them.

http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/labour_election_manifesto_2011.pdf (http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/labour_election_manifesto_2011.pdf)

"Labour does not favour water charges, which do not address the immediate needs of those who currently receive intermittent or poor water supplies."

I would read that as "if your water supply is bad, we won't charge you" and "we will apply water charges and use the proceeds to improve supply"
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 18, 2014, 12:18:04 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 18, 2014, 10:19:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 18, 2014, 03:55:02 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 17, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??

I agree it's probably too late to change this but it appears the public are fed up of being lied to when its fairly obvious what the government are up to.

The mindset of the irish people needed to change. For too long they have accepted being screwed over by their overlords, both irish and foreign.

Was just looking online there and in FGs 2011 manifesto, it clearly states that a new water utility company will be established and water will be charged for. I couldn't find the labour manifesto but as far as I recall they had that policy also. FF for all their talk now were going to introduce the same sort of setup. Not sure was SF policy on it was

As such, the water charges shouldn't be a shock to anyone - the majority of people voted for parties who said upfront that they'd introduce them.
FG also promised not to close A+E in certain hospitals and didn't keep to it.  Just because they write something down doesn't mean that it has to be accepted as fact that it must happen. Plenty of fiction in their election propaganda last time around about being accountable for their actions too.
It's not like the public voted FG in on the basis of accepting the formation of a water utility company.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on November 18, 2014, 12:35:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 18, 2014, 12:18:04 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 18, 2014, 10:19:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 18, 2014, 03:55:02 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 17, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??

I agree it's probably too late to change this but it appears the public are fed up of being lied to when its fairly obvious what the government are up to.

The mindset of the irish people needed to change. For too long they have accepted being screwed over by their overlords, both irish and foreign.

Was just looking online there and in FGs 2011 manifesto, it clearly states that a new water utility company will be established and water will be charged for. I couldn't find the labour manifesto but as far as I recall they had that policy also. FF for all their talk now were going to introduce the same sort of setup. Not sure was SF policy on it was

As such, the water charges shouldn't be a shock to anyone - the majority of people voted for parties who said upfront that they'd introduce them.
FG also promised not to close A+E in certain hospitals and didn't keep to it.  Just because they write something down doesn't mean that it has to be accepted as fact that it must happen. Plenty of fiction in their election propaganda last time around about being accountable for their actions too.
It's not like the public voted FG in on the basis of accepting the formation of a water utility company.

I thought we were talking specifically about water charges here though??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 18, 2014, 03:19:21 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 18, 2014, 12:35:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 18, 2014, 12:18:04 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 18, 2014, 10:19:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 18, 2014, 03:55:02 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 17, 2014, 10:12:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.

Protesting now is a complete waste of time, that ship sailed way back when we bailed out the banks. People didn't protest back then because it wasn't hitting them directly in the pocket.

The country is running a massive (5Bn?) deficit, how do we expect to pay for services??

I agree it's probably too late to change this but it appears the public are fed up of being lied to when its fairly obvious what the government are up to.

The mindset of the irish people needed to change. For too long they have accepted being screwed over by their overlords, both irish and foreign.

Was just looking online there and in FGs 2011 manifesto, it clearly states that a new water utility company will be established and water will be charged for. I couldn't find the labour manifesto but as far as I recall they had that policy also. FF for all their talk now were going to introduce the same sort of setup. Not sure was SF policy on it was

As such, the water charges shouldn't be a shock to anyone - the majority of people voted for parties who said upfront that they'd introduce them.
FG also promised not to close A+E in certain hospitals and didn't keep to it.  Just because they write something down doesn't mean that it has to be accepted as fact that it must happen. Plenty of fiction in their election propaganda last time around about being accountable for their actions too.
It's not like the public voted FG in on the basis of accepting the formation of a water utility company.

I thought we were talking specifically about water charges here though??

Yep - I was just pointing out that they can be selective when they want to be about what they implement.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on November 18, 2014, 03:49:09 PM
Yeah, that's true. Most parties who get elected probably don't fulfil many of their election promises though. If a party were to be honest during an election, would they actually get elected? Or would we vote for the other party who promise the sun moon and stars? I'd say the latter

The mindset of people does need to change but maybe it's before the elections when we're being made unrealistic promises that we need to ask more questions
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 18, 2014, 03:59:20 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 18, 2014, 03:49:09 PM
Yeah, that's true. Most parties who get elected probably don't fulfil many of their election promises though. If a party were to be honest during an election, would they actually get elected? Or would we vote for the other party who promise the sun moon and stars? I'd say the latter

The mindset of people does need to change but maybe it's before the elections when we're being made unrealistic promises that we need to ask more questions

Absolutely. A governments manifesto for office should be reviewed publicly when the term is up and then the people can judge their performance a little better.

Maybe Enda will rehash his "contract" again
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on November 19, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.
Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 05:52:47 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 19, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.
Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 20, 2014, 04:53:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 05:52:47 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 19, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.
Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.

The general population went for a €64 billion bank bailout without a whimper.

They took the Universal Social Charge without saying boo.

The only protest I've seen happened when the 'general population' were at work. These wasters won't even have to pay for water charges.

The irony of your support for them is fascinating. The organisers are targeting SF seats in the next election, just look at Murphy's recent success.. They know Gerry won't put his troops in the streets this time, because he wants to appear all Governmental, so they are going all out. It has nothing to do with water charges just like the Bin Tags protest had nothing to to with Bin Tags.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 20, 2014, 05:04:49 PM
Agree with you on this one Muppet.
Foxcommander and his "popular uprising" .... pleeeeease..
They tell us 100,000 or more protested ( that is the proper civilised march protests) - so what did the other 4,500,000 residents of the 26 Cos do?
As for the tramps who attacked Burton in Tallaght and Kenny in Sligo - scumbags reminiscent of Germany in the early 30s.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 20, 2014, 06:12:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 20, 2014, 04:53:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 05:52:47 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 19, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.
Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.

The general population went for a €64 billion bank bailout without a whimper.

They took the Universal Social Charge without saying boo.

The only protest I've seen happened when the 'general population' were at work. These wasters won't even have to pay for water charges.

The irony of your support for them is fascinating. The organisers are targeting SF seats in the next election, just look at Murphy's recent success.. They know Gerry won't put his troops in the streets this time, because he wants to appear all Governmental, so they are going all out. It has nothing to do with water charges just like the Bin Tags protest had nothing to to with Bin Tags.
I don't think its the shinners either- at least they cant take the 'credit' !!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 06:21:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 20, 2014, 04:53:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 05:52:47 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 19, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.
Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.

The general population went for a €64 billion bank bailout without a whimper.

They took the Universal Social Charge without saying boo.

The only protest I've seen happened when the 'general population' were at work. These wasters won't even have to pay for water charges.

The irony of your support for them is fascinating. The organisers are targeting SF seats in the next election, just look at Murphy's recent success.. They know Gerry won't put his troops in the streets this time, because he wants to appear all Governmental, so they are going all out. It has nothing to do with water charges just like the Bin Tags protest had nothing to to with Bin Tags.

Was the population actually clued in to what the bailout would involve at that time?

The USC was accepted as a fundraising exercise. I think people thought that this would be their extra contribution. Adding water charges on top just seems like they'll come up with something else again and again.

Only "wasters" protest at the water charges? Is that how you view protesters?

I don't get what you think is ironic.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 06:23:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2014, 05:04:49 PM
They tell us 100,000 or more protested ( that is the proper civilised march protests) - so what did the other 4,500,000 residents of the 26 Cos do?

Sat on their arse waiting for someone else to do the hard work and then if there's anything to be gained they'll not be shy in asking
or taking advantage of.

It's the way ireland works...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 20, 2014, 06:45:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 06:23:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 20, 2014, 05:04:49 PM
They tell us 100,000 or more protested ( that is the proper civilised march protests) - so what did the other 4,500,000 residents of the 26 Cos do?

Sat on their arse waiting for someone else to do the hard work and then if there's anything to be gained they'll not be shy in asking
or taking advantage of.

It's the way ireland works...

I think you will find that they were at work, shopping, cooking, playing sport, washing their cars, doing garden work etc etc.
Also many of them are too young, too old or ill etc.
Real people have real lives to be living in the real world ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 20, 2014, 07:56:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 20, 2014, 06:12:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 20, 2014, 04:53:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 05:52:47 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 19, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.
Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.

The general population went for a €64 billion bank bailout without a whimper.

They took the Universal Social Charge without saying boo.

The only protest I've seen happened when the 'general population' were at work. These wasters won't even have to pay for water charges.

The irony of your support for them is fascinating. The organisers are targeting SF seats in the next election, just look at Murphy's recent success.. They know Gerry won't put his troops in the streets this time, because he wants to appear all Governmental, so they are going all out. It has nothing to do with water charges just like the Bin Tags protest had nothing to to with Bin Tags.
I don't think its the shinners either- at least they cant take the 'credit' !!

That's what I am saying, the Shinners are staying out of of the protests.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 20, 2014, 07:57:10 PM
Just so people know who is really in charge:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1120/660891-water-charges/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1120/660891-water-charges/)

An assessment of the Government's revised water charges will be carried out by the European Commission as part of its review of Ireland's progress after the EU IMF bailout.

The Troika has been in Dublin this week meeting Government officials and staff from the Central Bank and Nama.

Sources close to the commission said there was surprise at the changes to Irish Water's fees as officials had expected earlier plans would be implemented.



Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on November 20, 2014, 08:01:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 06:21:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 20, 2014, 04:53:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 05:52:47 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 19, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.
Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.

The general population went for a €64 billion bank bailout without a whimper.

They took the Universal Social Charge without saying boo.

The only protest I've seen happened when the 'general population' were at work. These wasters won't even have to pay for water charges.

The irony of your support for them is fascinating. The organisers are targeting SF seats in the next election, just look at Murphy's recent success.. They know Gerry won't put his troops in the streets this time, because he wants to appear all Governmental, so they are going all out. It has nothing to do with water charges just like the Bin Tags protest had nothing to to with Bin Tags.

Was the population actually clued in to what the bailout would involve at that time?

The USC was accepted as a fundraising exercise. I think people thought that this would be their extra contribution. Adding water charges on top just seems like they'll come up with something else again and again.

Only "wasters" protest at the water charges? Is that how you view protesters?

I don't get what you think is ironic.
The plan for water charges has been on the cards for years now - it's not something they've just come up with - it was planned before the current government came to power.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on November 20, 2014, 08:03:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 05:52:47 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 19, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.
Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.
'Sinister' is throwing a brick, throwing water balloons, blocking someone in a car for several hours. Anything that doesn't qualify as peaceful protest. I don't need anyone to explain that to me - it's my perception.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 09:44:52 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 20, 2014, 08:01:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 06:21:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 20, 2014, 04:53:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 05:52:47 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 19, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.
Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.

The general population went for a €64 billion bank bailout without a whimper.

They took the Universal Social Charge without saying boo.

The only protest I've seen happened when the 'general population' were at work. These wasters won't even have to pay for water charges.

The irony of your support for them is fascinating. The organisers are targeting SF seats in the next election, just look at Murphy's recent success.. They know Gerry won't put his troops in the streets this time, because he wants to appear all Governmental, so they are going all out. It has nothing to do with water charges just like the Bin Tags protest had nothing to to with Bin Tags.

Was the population actually clued in to what the bailout would involve at that time?

The USC was accepted as a fundraising exercise. I think people thought that this would be their extra contribution. Adding water charges on top just seems like they'll come up with something else again and again.

Only "wasters" protest at the water charges? Is that how you view protesters?

I don't get what you think is ironic.
The plan for water charges has been on the cards for years now - it's not something they've just come up with - it was planned before the current government came to power.

By Fianna Fail? Nice of Fine Gael to implement their plan for government.

Who said there was a difference!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on November 20, 2014, 10:06:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 09:44:52 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 20, 2014, 08:01:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 06:21:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 20, 2014, 04:53:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 20, 2014, 05:52:47 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 19, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2014, 09:27:18 PM
The Taoiseach said the issue with Saturday's protest was far beyond whether people could afford to pay for water.
He said there was a more "sinister agenda" at play.

Really what Kenny is saying is that he thinks that the people are too dumb to protest and they are being manipulated into doing so. Now he's playing the victim, especially with his car being blocked. Poor Joan Burton had a water balloon thrown at her allegedly.

You can protest all you want as long as it doesn't affect the people you are targeting. Very Father Ted.
Peaceful protest is fine, but a sinister element has crept into some of the protests that will be counter-productive in the end. Many people are unhappy about the charges, but a lot of people won't want to be associated with such protests.

I don't think throwing water balloons or blocking someone in their car for two hours is acceptable.

What's sinister? The fact the Irish Independent has told you it's sinister or that Enda thinks it is.

Media spin to discredit a popular uprising. Add to that the fact the government are now saying they will cap the charges until 2018. Then they can do what they like once the meters are in and the country is being billed.

Their ploys are a little too transparent but maybe the general population will go for it.

The general population went for a €64 billion bank bailout without a whimper.

They took the Universal Social Charge without saying boo.

The only protest I've seen happened when the 'general population' were at work. These wasters won't even have to pay for water charges.

The irony of your support for them is fascinating. The organisers are targeting SF seats in the next election, just look at Murphy's recent success.. They know Gerry won't put his troops in the streets this time, because he wants to appear all Governmental, so they are going all out. It has nothing to do with water charges just like the Bin Tags protest had nothing to to with Bin Tags.

Was the population actually clued in to what the bailout would involve at that time?

The USC was accepted as a fundraising exercise. I think people thought that this would be their extra contribution. Adding water charges on top just seems like they'll come up with something else again and again.

Only "wasters" protest at the water charges? Is that how you view protesters?

I don't get what you think is ironic.
The plan for water charges has been on the cards for years now - it's not something they've just come up with - it was planned before the current government came to power.

By Fianna Fail? Nice of Fine Gael to implement their plan for government.

Who said there was a difference!!
It was the Troika's plan.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 20, 2014, 10:28:55 PM
Every country in Europe and pretty much everywhere else has water charges. Now you may or may not agree with water charges as a detail of policy, but all this marching about and pretending that this is some sort of outrageous imposition is ridiculous.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 20, 2014, 11:16:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2014, 10:28:55 PM
Every country in Europe and pretty much everywhere else has water charges. Now you may or may not agree with water charges as a detail of policy, but all this marching about and pretending that this is some sort of outrageous imposition is ridiculous.
But we are already paying for our water and have been doing so since domestic rates were introduced. Before the '77 General Election, water and refuse charges were included in the rates. When those and a list of other direct taxes were abolished, they were replaced by higher rates of Vat and income tax and other forms of indirect taxation.
Gradually over the intervening years, every single tax that was done away with (refuse charges, car tax etc.) have been re-introduced without a corresponding decrease in the levies that replaced them.
Water charges are the last remaining element of the pre-77 domestic rates to be brought back and like all the others, it's coming in on top of the money we are already paying for that service. It's a double whammy in other words.
FFS, I'll pay up when the grippers arrive on my doorstep and not a second before!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on November 21, 2014, 12:29:11 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 20, 2014, 11:16:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2014, 10:28:55 PM
Every country in Europe and pretty much everywhere else has water charges. Now you may or may not agree with water charges as a detail of policy, but all this marching about and pretending that this is some sort of outrageous imposition is ridiculous.
But we are already paying for our water and have been doing so since domestic rates were introduced. Before the '77 General Election, water and refuse charges were included in the rates. When those and a list of other direct taxes were abolished, they were replaced by higher rates of Vat and income tax and other forms of indirect taxation.
Gradually over the intervening years, every single tax that was done away with (refuse charges, car tax etc.) have been re-introduced without a corresponding decrease in the levies that replaced them.
Water charges are the last remaining element of the pre-77 domestic rates to be brought back and like all the others, it's coming in on top of the money we are already paying for that service. It's a double whammy in other words.
FFS, I'll pay up when the grippers arrive on my doorstep and not a second before!

So where would you get the money to repair the leaks and to prevent raw sewerage being dumped into the sea?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on November 21, 2014, 01:02:31 AM
Unfortunately Irish people don't give a shit. Same reason we destroyed our rail system, same reason we destroy our heritage sites, same reason we threw up ugly housing estates all over the place. You'd think as a people we'd be glad to fix those leaks and stop polluting our rivers and pay a modest amount to fix it. But sure begorrah doesn't water come from the sky. Look at Ros. Luke Ming Flanagan was part of a county council that oversaw a water system that was and is pure poison. He's now one of the "we won't pay". No surprise he's one of those intent to destroy our bogs. Sure cutting turf is a way of life. Let's keep cutting till we leave the province in shit.

Hey anyone want to go out and protest the relocation of pedophiles to our towns. Thought not.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 21, 2014, 12:05:36 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 21, 2014, 12:29:11 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 20, 2014, 11:16:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2014, 10:28:55 PM
Every country in Europe and pretty much everywhere else has water charges. Now you may or may not agree with water charges as a detail of policy, but all this marching about and pretending that this is some sort of outrageous imposition is ridiculous.
But we are already paying for our water and have been doing so since domestic rates were introduced. Before the '77 General Election, water and refuse charges were included in the rates. When those and a list of other direct taxes were abolished, they were replaced by higher rates of Vat and income tax and other forms of indirect taxation.
Gradually over the intervening years, every single tax that was done away with (refuse charges, car tax etc.) have been re-introduced without a corresponding decrease in the levies that replaced them.
Water charges are the last remaining element of the pre-77 domestic rates to be brought back and like all the others, it's coming in on top of the money we are already paying for that service. It's a double whammy in other words.
FFS, I'll pay up when the grippers arrive on my doorstep and not a second before!

So where would you get the money to repair the leaks and to prevent raw sewerage being dumped into the sea?
I think Lar is trying to say that the money for these was already supposed to be included in taxes we paid and that these were outlined at the time that this is what they were for!

but the water system has been neglected and the supposedly money allocated for maintenance was not used for this purpose.
so we prob have to pay extra now for the negligence and to fix this and for the treatment of raw sewage being dumped into the sea.

im not unhappy to pay a wee bit and can do so, but others cant afford it. it also is a bit much when they are trying to gloss over the public service's negligence and attempt to con us.
but these things need more money.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on November 21, 2014, 01:00:54 PM
You're right re public service negligence but what govt in their right mind would tackle the public service?? They'd be out on their ear with strikes and protests all over the country and every opposition party supporting the layabouts in the public sector unions. Just to be clear - I'm not saying everyone or even a majority in the public service are useless but the current system protects the useless to the detriment of decent public sector workers and the general public. If that hasn't changed during the recession, it's unlikely to do so now

In relation to the promises of 1977, surely yourself and Lar are well aware that those were lies peddled by Jack Lynch in order to buy the electorate?? That election has set the tone for almost every election since then whereby parties feel it's ok to promise the sun moon and stars and then backtrack the minute they're in the door. Although the fact that we the electorate bought those promises then and every time since means we're the ones responsible
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on November 21, 2014, 01:39:58 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 21, 2014, 01:00:54 PM
You're right re public service negligence but what govt in their right mind would tackle the public service?? They'd be out on their ear with strikes and protests all over the country and every opposition party supporting the layabouts in the public sector unions. Just to be clear - I'm not saying everyone or even a majority in the public service are useless but the current system protects the useless to the detriment of decent public sector workers and the general public. If that hasn't changed during the recession, it's unlikely to do so now

In relation to the promises of 1977, surely yourself and Lar are well aware that those were lies peddled by Jack Lynch in order to buy the electorate?? That election has set the tone for almost every election since then whereby parties feel it's ok to promise the sun moon and stars and then backtrack the minute they're in the door. Although the fact that we the electorate bought those promises then and every time since means we're the ones responsible
I am indeed- that's why I say that these services need more money !
but its a pain in the hole being lied to and have them think they are pulling the wool over our eyes- when we were always wise to it('it' being that they were spending feck all on services and being negligent in everything all along while claiming our taxes were going towards these services).

the civil service - that's another days rant!
no gov would or could take them on- but the malaise will remain until this had been addressed.

that the new water company inherited the same template of work ethic, bonuses, salaries and jobs for the boys - does not augur well for the future.

this was an opportunity to address the problem with structure, payment and efficiency with a new 'company'.
Then address other individual companies/agencies/gardai etc individually.
this would happen over time.

all new hires should inherit new wage/salary scales as well are revamped terms and conditions (DC pensions instead of DB etc).



Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on November 21, 2014, 01:49:31 PM
As far as I know, new hires are on different (pretty normal) terms and conditions e.g. dc pension rather than db. People who transferred from the councils, etc retained their existing conditions many of which would be extremely generous.

Siptu were out against bonuses being stopped for their members (many of whom would be ex-council) - will be interesting to see what stance certain parties take on that if it goes towards industrial action
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 21, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 21, 2014, 12:29:11 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 20, 2014, 11:16:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2014, 10:28:55 PM
Every country in Europe and pretty much everywhere else has water charges. Now you may or may not agree with water charges as a detail of policy, but all this marching about and pretending that this is some sort of outrageous imposition is ridiculous.
But we are already paying for our water and have been doing so since domestic rates were introduced. Before the '77 General Election, water and refuse charges were included in the rates. When those and a list of other direct taxes were abolished, they were replaced by higher rates of Vat and income tax and other forms of indirect taxation.
Gradually over the intervening years, every single tax that was done away with (refuse charges, car tax etc.) have been re-introduced without a corresponding decrease in the levies that replaced them.
Water charges are the last remaining element of the pre-77 domestic rates to be brought back and like all the others, it's coming in on top of the money we are already paying for that service. It's a double whammy in other words.
FFS, I'll pay up when the grippers arrive on my doorstep and not a second before!

So where would you get the money to repair the leaks and to prevent raw sewerage being dumped into the sea?
When trying to get at the facts in this particular instance, I guess a lot depends on who you choose to listen to and what you decide to believe.
For instance, both coalition parties declared that they were opposed the introduction of water charges in the lead -up to the last General Election.
The Labour manifesto said on page 29, "Labour does not favour water charges."
Seems fairly unequivocal to me.
Brendan Howlin's remark on the subject of water meters in February 2011 that "It makes no sense to spend hundreds of millions of euro metering a leaky system," doesn't leave much room for doubt, does it?
Or is a case of it being okay to use any means possible, including damn lies in a bid to get into power? Michael Noonan said more or less the same thing when the campaign was on and now seems to have no problem with doing the exact opposite when in office.
We have also been spun the line that the introduction of water charges was a pre-condition of the agreement with the Troika. The government had no choice in the matter so blame Angela Merkel and Ali Chopra or whoever you bloody look but it's not our fault, accordsing to the official line.
Hmm...
For me, there's a hard decision to be made right here, are Enda and his government a shower of incompetent gobshites or a pack of brazen liars? That's a hard one to call.

If you happen to believe that Noonan and Howlin were speaking in good faith when they delivered their pre-elections promises, you should opt for the former. After all, if they genuinely believed that a water tax should be opposed, they hadn't read or understood the contents of the agreement. Definitely not the sort to run tjhe country.
On the other hand, if you believe, as I do, that Messrs. Noonan and Howlin and their colleagues knew damn well that the imposition of a water tax was inevitable but decided to pretend otherwise until they got into power, then the latter is the only possible conclusion to arrive at.
A case of Hobson's Choice really, either way you are damned.

BTW, our water is not free, Gene Kerrigan (Sindo columnist) estimates that on average, the PAYE worker already pays €600 yearly in water charges. (That's by way of higher indirect taxes since the abolition of domestic rates in 1977.)
Yet Noonan would have us believe that we've been getting our water for free all along.
"Ask yourself the question," sez he. "What do you think would happen, from a behavioural point of view, if electricity were free?"
He went on, ""Would you ever turn off the light in the middle of the summer? Would you have appliances plugged in all the time?"
That's a ludicrous comparison to make.
Water is not free and a chronic lack of public funding down the years  has left us with a system where almost 50% of treated water leaks away. That hasn't been caused by private individuals leaving taps running while they wash their teeth or the likes.
Now, I accept that money must be found to upgrade our water system as a matter of urgency and I have no problem with paying my fair share of the cost but I don't think the present proposals will see any significant changes now or in the mid-term future.
If we, the tax payers, were given adequate recognition for the money we are already paying for the inadequate service we have, it would soften my cough considerably.  A sliding scale of tariffs after that, based on water usage and not the number of individuals in a house would be fairer than the proposed new system.
I know there would be problems there also but not as many as I see in the present proposals.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2014, 06:11:47 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 21, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 21, 2014, 12:29:11 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 20, 2014, 11:16:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2014, 10:28:55 PM
Every country in Europe and pretty much everywhere else has water charges. Now you may or may not agree with water charges as a detail of policy, but all this marching about and pretending that this is some sort of outrageous imposition is ridiculous.
But we are already paying for our water and have been doing so since domestic rates were introduced. Before the '77 General Election, water and refuse charges were included in the rates. When those and a list of other direct taxes were abolished, they were replaced by higher rates of Vat and income tax and other forms of indirect taxation.
Gradually over the intervening years, every single tax that was done away with (refuse charges, car tax etc.) have been re-introduced without a corresponding decrease in the levies that replaced them.
Water charges are the last remaining element of the pre-77 domestic rates to be brought back and like all the others, it's coming in on top of the money we are already paying for that service. It's a double whammy in other words.
FFS, I'll pay up when the grippers arrive on my doorstep and not a second before!

So where would you get the money to repair the leaks and to prevent raw sewerage being dumped into the sea?
When trying to get at the facts in this particular instance, I guess a lot depends on who you choose to listen to and what you decide to believe.
For instance, both coalition parties declared that they were opposed the introduction of water charges in the lead -up to the last General Election.
The Labour manifesto said on page 29, "Labour does not favour water charges."
Seems fairly unequivocal to me.
Brendan Howlin's remark on the subject of water meters in February 2011 that "It makes no sense to spend hundreds of millions of euro metering a leaky system," doesn't leave much room for doubt, does it?
Or is a case of it being okay to use any means possible, including damn lies in a bid to get into power? Michael Noonan said more or less the same thing when the campaign was on and now seems to have no problem with doing the exact opposite when in office.
We have also been spun the line that the introduction of water charges was a pre-condition of the agreement with the Troika. The government had no choice in the matter so blame Angela Merkel and Ali Chopra or whoever you bloody look but it's not our fault, accordsing to the official line.
Hmm...
For me, there's a hard decision to be made right here, are Enda and his government a shower of incompetent gobshites or a pack of brazen liars? That's a hard one to call.

If you happen to believe that Noonan and Howlin were speaking in good faith when they delivered their pre-elections promises, you should opt for the former. After all, if they genuinely believed that a water tax should be opposed, they hadn't read or understood the contents of the agreement. Definitely not the sort to run tjhe country.
On the other hand, if you believe, as I do, that Messrs. Noonan and Howlin and their colleagues knew damn well that the imposition of a water tax was inevitable but decided to pretend otherwise until they got into power, then the latter is the only possible conclusion to arrive at.
A case of Hobson's Choice really, either way you are damned.

BTW, our water is not free, Gene Kerrigan (Sindo columnist) estimates that on average, the PAYE worker already pays €600 yearly in water charges. (That's by way of higher indirect taxes since the abolition of domestic rates in 1977.)
Yet Noonan would have us believe that we've been getting our water for free all along.
"Ask yourself the question," sez he. "What do you think would happen, from a behavioural point of view, if electricity were free?"
He went on, ""Would you ever turn off the light in the middle of the summer? Would you have appliances plugged in all the time?"
That's a ludicrous comparison to make.
Water is not free and a chronic lack of public funding down the years  has left us with a system where almost 50% of treated water leaks away. That hasn't been caused by private individuals leaving taps running while they wash their teeth or the likes.
Now, I accept that money must be found to upgrade our water system as a matter of urgency and I have no problem with paying my fair share of the cost but I don't think the present proposals will see any significant changes now or in the mid-term future.
If we, the tax payers, were given adequate recognition for the money we are already paying for the inadequate service we have, it would soften my cough considerably.  A sliding scale of tariffs after that, based on water usage and not the number of individuals in a house would be fairer than the proposed new system.
I know there would be problems there also but not as many as I see in the present proposals.

Lars you are arguing about what middle management once said. The bosses are in Europe. They want water charges so it would happen even if Joe Higgins was Taoiseach and Paul Murphy Táiniste.

That is what loss of sovereignty means.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 21, 2014, 06:48:49 PM
Quote
the civil service - that's another days rant!
no gov would or could take them on- but the malaise will remain until this had been addressed.

In order to "take on" the civil service, the government has to say things like what is the basis of this decision, what is it benchmarked against, how do you know if it is successful? But this kind of rational approach is exactly the opposite of what politicians want, they want to change course without proper justification, they do not want to explain themselves, they do not want to be measured. As long as the voter puts up with this then nothing will change.

QuoteBTW, our water is not free, Gene Kerrigan (Sindo columnist) estimates that on average, the PAYE worker already pays €600 yearly in water charges. (That's by way of higher indirect taxes since the abolition of domestic rates in 1977.)

The abolition of rates in 1977 was a disgrace and the cause of a lot of damage since then. Gene Kerrigan (Sindo columnist) is even less principled than the average politician. But this indirect tax thing is suspect in any case. VAT was 20% in 1976, and while it reached 35%! in the 1980s it has spent most of the time since then at 21%, the 23% now has to do with recent circumstances not 1997. So not a vast contribution there. As for income tax, it too was 65% in the 1980s but is much less now and many people pay little or no income tax.
I have a house in Dublin and one in Armagh, the sum of the property tax, bin charges and water in Dublin is significantly less than the rates in Armagh, and there will be water charges there in due course too.
As I said, you cannot simply not bother having taxes and charges  other places have and expect the same left of water quality etc. Everyone is convinced they are overtaxed, when in the 70s or 90s they paid at least as much and paid more in the 80s, only the early part of the 00s was different as the government was afloat on stamp duty on borrowed money in a totally artificial situation. But using that as a benchmark is like using a mild winter to budget your heating costs.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 21, 2014, 07:10:41 PM
Muppet and Armaghniac talking sense as they seem to do quite a lot.
The legacy of neo liberal McCreevy and the PDs and the gobsh1te FF Builders party lives on and will be crucifying us for decades.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 21, 2014, 07:24:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 21, 2014, 07:10:41 PM
The legacy of neo liberal McCreevy and the PDs and the gobsh1te FF Builders party lives on and will be crucifying us for decades.

In fairness to McCreevey, his dictum was if you have it spend it, if you don't have it don't spend it. The present lot believe in spending it whether you have it or not.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2014, 07:48:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2014, 07:24:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 21, 2014, 07:10:41 PM
The legacy of neo liberal McCreevy and the PDs and the gobsh1te FF Builders party lives on and will be crucifying us for decades.

In fairness to McCreevey, his dictum was if you have it spend it, if you don't have it don't spend it. The present lot believe in spending it whether you have it or not.

McCreevy actually created the National Pension Reserve, which was about the only sensible decision made in our national finances in our 93 years. But the Troika emptied it as a condition of the bailout.

Bertie got rid of McCreevy because he wouldn't spend enough to buy elections, put in Cowan, and the rest (of us) is now history.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 21, 2014, 08:36:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 21, 2014, 06:11:47 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 21, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 21, 2014, 12:29:11 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 20, 2014, 11:16:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2014, 10:28:55 PM
Every country in Europe and pretty much everywhere else has water charges. Now you may or may not agree with water charges as a detail of policy, but all this marching about and pretending that this is some sort of outrageous imposition is ridiculous.
But we are already paying for our water and have been doing so since domestic rates were introduced. Before the '77 General Election, water and refuse charges were included in the rates. When those and a list of other direct taxes were abolished, they were replaced by higher rates of Vat and income tax and other forms of indirect taxation.
Gradually over the intervening years, every single tax that was done away with (refuse charges, car tax etc.) have been re-introduced without a corresponding decrease in the levies that replaced them.
Water charges are the last remaining element of the pre-77 domestic rates to be brought back and like all the others, it's coming in on top of the money we are already paying for that service. It's a double whammy in other words.
FFS, I'll pay up when the grippers arrive on my doorstep and not a second before!

So where would you get the money to repair the leaks and to prevent raw sewerage being dumped into the sea?
When trying to get at the facts in this particular instance, I guess a lot depends on who you choose to listen to and what you decide to believe.
For instance, both coalition parties declared that they were opposed the introduction of water charges in the lead -up to the last General Election.
The Labour manifesto said on page 29, "Labour does not favour water charges."
Seems fairly unequivocal to me.
Brendan Howlin's remark on the subject of water meters in February 2011 that "It makes no sense to spend hundreds of millions of euro metering a leaky system," doesn't leave much room for doubt, does it?
Or is a case of it being okay to use any means possible, including damn lies in a bid to get into power? Michael Noonan said more or less the same thing when the campaign was on and now seems to have no problem with doing the exact opposite when in office.
We have also been spun the line that the introduction of water charges was a pre-condition of the agreement with the Troika. The government had no choice in the matter so blame Angela Merkel and Ali Chopra or whoever you bloody look but it's not our fault, accordsing to the official line.
Hmm...
For me, there's a hard decision to be made right here, are Enda and his government a shower of incompetent gobshites or a pack of brazen liars? That's a hard one to call.

If you happen to believe that Noonan and Howlin were speaking in good faith when they delivered their pre-elections promises, you should opt for the former. After all, if they genuinely believed that a water tax should be opposed, they hadn't read or understood the contents of the agreement. Definitely not the sort to run tjhe country.
On the other hand, if you believe, as I do, that Messrs. Noonan and Howlin and their colleagues knew damn well that the imposition of a water tax was inevitable but decided to pretend otherwise until they got into power, then the latter is the only possible conclusion to arrive at.
A case of Hobson's Choice really, either way you are damned.

BTW, our water is not free, Gene Kerrigan (Sindo columnist) estimates that on average, the PAYE worker already pays €600 yearly in water charges. (That's by way of higher indirect taxes since the abolition of domestic rates in 1977.)
Yet Noonan would have us believe that we've been getting our water for free all along.
"Ask yourself the question," sez he. "What do you think would happen, from a behavioural point of view, if electricity were free?"
He went on, ""Would you ever turn off the light in the middle of the summer? Would you have appliances plugged in all the time?"
That's a ludicrous comparison to make.
Water is not free and a chronic lack of public funding down the years  has left us with a system where almost 50% of treated water leaks away. That hasn't been caused by private individuals leaving taps running while they wash their teeth or the likes.
Now, I accept that money must be found to upgrade our water system as a matter of urgency and I have no problem with paying my fair share of the cost but I don't think the present proposals will see any significant changes now or in the mid-term future.
If we, the tax payers, were given adequate recognition for the money we are already paying for the inadequate service we have, it would soften my cough considerably.  A sliding scale of tariffs after that, based on water usage and not the number of individuals in a house would be fairer than the proposed new system.
I know there would be problems there also but not as many as I see in the present proposals.

Lars you are arguing about what middle management once said. The bosses are in Europe. They want water charges so it would happen even if Joe Higgins was Taoiseach and Paul Murphy Táiniste.

That is what loss of sovereignty means.
You're right mup, no doubt about it.
But what bugs me is the way the present govt. parties told blatant lies in their in their election campaigns in 2011 and never bothered to disguise the fact then or now. As MacD2 said, the '77 election set the tone for every election since then and as he also said, we the voters are responsible for allowing all political parties to make extravagant promises that they have no intention of keeping if they get into power.
It's said that politicians mirror society, we elect them so they represent our values.
Sure, if Higgins and Murphy led the government, we'd still have to put up with water charges but I'd like to think that they would have admitted this from the outset.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 21, 2014, 08:42:18 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 21, 2014, 08:36:26 PM
.
Sure, if Higgins and Murphy led the government, we'd still have to put up with water charges but I'd like to think that they would have admitted this from the outset.
Ahhh Jasus Lar what age are ya? :D That went out with the Tooth fairy and S Claus
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on November 21, 2014, 09:03:53 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 21, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
When trying to get at the facts in this particular instance, I guess a lot depends on who you choose to listen to and what you decide to believe.
For instance, both coalition parties declared that they were opposed the introduction of water charges in the lead -up to the last General Election.
The Labour manifesto said on page 29, "Labour does not favour water charges."
Seems fairly unequivocal to me.
Facts indeed.

Fine Gael's election manifesto clearly stated that they would introduce charging:
QuoteWater Charging: Fine Gael will introduce a fair funding model to deliver clean and reliable water. We will not ask home owners to pay for a broken and unreliable system and that is why Fine Gael will only introduce water charging after the establishment of a new State owned water utility company to take over responsibility from the separate local authorities for Ireland's water infrastructure and to drive new investment.

You selectively part-quoted the Labour manifesto:
QuoteLabour does not favour water charges, which do not address the immediate needs of those who currently receive intermittent or poor water supplies.
Not quite as unequivocal.

In FG, FF and the Greens, 55% of the electorate voted for parties that were quite upfront in their intention to introduce water charges. As for Labour, well they weren't as unequivocal as you suggest, and as you know, the reality is when you enter a coalition, you don't get the option of delivering all your manifesto, even if you want to, especially if you're the junior partner.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 21, 2014, 09:18:15 PM
QuoteBut what bugs me is the way the present govt. parties told blatant lies in their in their election campaigns in 2011 and never bothered to disguise the fact then or now.

As Maguire pointed out, the largest party have done pretty much what they promised.
But even if the didn't, there are worse things than this, all of this ranting and raving over something that is less than 1% of government expenditure or revenue is ridiculous and immature.

If people were protesting over people on trollies in A&E, or not enough social workers for children, or something important, then you'd have some respect for Irish people.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 21, 2014, 09:21:10 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 21, 2014, 09:03:53 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 21, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
When trying to get at the facts in this particular instance, I guess a lot depends on who you choose to listen to and what you decide to believe.
For instance, both coalition parties declared that they were opposed the introduction of water charges in the lead -up to the last General Election.
The Labour manifesto said on page 29, "Labour does not favour water charges."
Seems fairly unequivocal to me.
Facts indeed.

Fine Gael's election manifesto clearly stated that they would introduce charging:
QuoteWater Charging: Fine Gael will introduce a fair funding model to deliver clean and reliable water. We will not ask home owners to pay for a broken and unreliable system and that is why Fine Gael will only introduce water charging after the establishment of a new State owned water utility company to take over responsibility from the separate local authorities for Ireland's water infrastructure and to drive new investment.

You selectively part-quoted the Labour manifesto:
QuoteLabour does not favour water charges, which do not address the immediate needs of those who currently receive intermittent or poor water supplies.
Not quite as unequivocal.

In FG, FF and the Greens, 55% of the electorate voted for parties that were quite upfront in their intention to introduce water charges. As for Labour, well they weren't as unequivocal as you suggest, and as you know, the reality is when you enter a coalition, you don't get the option of delivering all your manifesto, even if you want to, especially if you're the junior partner.

Had Fine Gael said in their manifesto that they would come round everyones home and kill their pets they probably still would have won the last election such was the contempt for FF.

Nobody believes the manifestos written anymore, I think that's partly the problem. There are so many lies told by politicians that people thought there was no way they would actually go ahead with charging for water.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 21, 2014, 09:23:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2014, 09:18:15 PM
If people were protesting over people on trollies in A&E, or not enough social workers for children, or something important, then you'd have some respect for Irish people.

I wish they would. I'm glad that people are waking up to the fact that their government is short changing them and they realise that only by public shows of protest that there is dissatisfaction with the way things are being done.

No point in tutting at Enda on the Late Late Show and wishing something could be done...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on November 21, 2014, 09:53:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 21, 2014, 09:21:10 PM
Nobody believes the manifestos written anymore, I think that's partly the problem. There are so many lies told by politicians that people thought there was no way they would actually go ahead with charging for water.

FFS fox, we can berate parties and politicians for lying to us and there are plenty of examples of that but it's a bit rich complaining about something they actually did tell us about by saying that was one of the parts we didn't believe them on. People who didn't know this was coming were either too lazy to read up on party policies or even too lazy to vote.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on November 21, 2014, 10:16:19 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 21, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
The Labour manifesto said on page 29, "Labour does not favour water charges."
Seems fairly unequivocal to me.

Jaysus Lar, you must have known you were winding up for a long post when you couldn't quote the full sentence from the manifesto where it's is anything but unequivocal.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 21, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
If we, the tax payers, were given adequate recognition for the money we are already paying for the inadequate service we have, it would soften my cough considerably.

I'm not sure what recognition you're talking about Lar. We currently pay taxes (5Bn less than would be required to balance the budget) some of which goes to pay for water - at the moment the govt / councils spend enough to keep the system going but not to maintain it properly. Incidentally, this lack of investment wastes money in the long term i.e. increased production costs as a result of lack of investment to prevent leaks. The new water charges (which don't even come close to covering the cost of water) will be used to replace some of that tax money and also to repair leaks. If you're wondering where the tax that's no longer going on water go to - it's being swallowed up by the big hole in the exchequer finances, simple as that.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 21, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
A sliding scale of tariffs after that, based on water usage and not the number of individuals in a house would be fairer than the proposed new system.
I know there would be problems there also but not as many as I see in the present proposals.

The original charges were something like that but were then simplified on the back of the protests on the grounds that they were too complicated.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 23, 2014, 10:29:09 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 21, 2014, 10:16:19 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 21, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
The Labour manifesto said on page 29, "Labour does not favour water charges."
Seems fairly unequivocal to me.

Jaysus Lar, you must have known you were winding up for a long post when you couldn't quote the full sentence from the manifesto where it's is anything but unequivocal.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 21, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
If we, the tax payers, were given adequate recognition for the money we are already paying for the inadequate service we have, it would soften my cough considerably.

I'm not sure what recognition you're talking about Lar. We currently pay taxes (5Bn less than would be required to balance the budget) some of which goes to pay for water - at the moment the govt / councils spend enough to keep the system going but not to maintain it properly. Incidentally, this lack of investment wastes money in the long term i.e. increased production costs as a result of lack of investment to prevent leaks. The new water charges (which don't even come close to covering the cost of water) will be used to replace some of that tax money and also to repair leaks. If you're wondering where the tax that's no longer going on water go to - it's being swallowed up by the big hole in the exchequer finances, simple as that.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 21, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
A sliding scale of tariffs after that, based on water usage and not the number of individuals in a house would be fairer than the proposed new system.
I know there would be problems there also but not as many as I see in the present proposals.

The original charges were something like that but were then simplified on the back of the protests on the grounds that they were too complicated.
I guess I got that spectacularly wrong, Mac and It's fair to say that this wasn't the first time either.
But in this instance I was acting in good faith when I referred to Labour's stance on the water tax issue.
Trouble was that I was relying on a source that turned out to be unreliable.
I was referencing an article in the Sunday Independent written by Gene Kerrigan and this is the excerpt I was interested in.

Another old pro put his shoulder to the wheel on Friday - Labour's Pat Rabbitte, who said setting up Irish Water was "rushed". I think that's what he said - I was reading Labour's 2011 election manifesto at the time, where it says, on Page 29, "Labour does not favour water charges".
I was also remembering Brendan Howlin's remark of February 2011: "It makes no sense to spend hundreds of millions of euro metering a leaky system".


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/were-not-the-wasters-mr-noonan-30710511.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/were-not-the-wasters-mr-noonan-30710511.html)
I saw no reason to doubt his integrity at the time because I didn't expect a columnist in a national paper to publish something that was blatantly untrue and expect to get away with it. AFAIK, nobody took issue with Kerrigan in the interim so I took his word for it and accepted that what he said was true.
Obviously, it wasn't.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 23, 2014, 11:26:36 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 23, 2014, 10:29:09 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 21, 2014, 10:16:19 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 21, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
The Labour manifesto said on page 29, "Labour does not favour water charges."
Seems fairly unequivocal to me.

Jaysus Lar, you must have known you were winding up for a long post when you couldn't quote the full sentence from the manifesto where it's is anything but unequivocal.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 21, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
If we, the tax payers, were given adequate recognition for the money we are already paying for the inadequate service we have, it would soften my cough considerably.

I'm not sure what recognition you're talking about Lar. We currently pay taxes (5Bn less than would be required to balance the budget) some of which goes to pay for water - at the moment the govt / councils spend enough to keep the system going but not to maintain it properly. Incidentally, this lack of investment wastes money in the long term i.e. increased production costs as a result of lack of investment to prevent leaks. The new water charges (which don't even come close to covering the cost of water) will be used to replace some of that tax money and also to repair leaks. If you're wondering where the tax that's no longer going on water go to - it's being swallowed up by the big hole in the exchequer finances, simple as that.

Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 21, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
A sliding scale of tariffs after that, based on water usage and not the number of individuals in a house would be fairer than the proposed new system.
I know there would be problems there also but not as many as I see in the present proposals.

The original charges were something like that but were then simplified on the back of the protests on the grounds that they were too complicated.
I guess I got that spectacularly wrong, Mac and It's fair to say that this wasn't the first time either.
But in this instance I was acting in good faith when I referred to Labour's stance on the water tax issue.
Trouble was that I was relying on a source that turned out to be unreliable.
I was referencing an article in the Sunday Independent written by Gene Kerrigan and this is the excerpt I was interested in.

Another old pro put his shoulder to the wheel on Friday - Labour's Pat Rabbitte, who said setting up Irish Water was "rushed". I think that's what he said - I was reading Labour's 2011 election manifesto at the time, where it says, on Page 29, "Labour does not favour water charges".
I was also remembering Brendan Howlin's remark of February 2011: "It makes no sense to spend hundreds of millions of euro metering a leaky system".


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/were-not-the-wasters-mr-noonan-30710511.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/were-not-the-wasters-mr-noonan-30710511.html)
I saw no reason to doubt his integrity at the time because I didn't expect a columnist in a national paper to publish something that was blatantly untrue and expect to get away with it. AFAIK, nobody took issue with Kerrigan in the interim so I took his word for it and accepted that what he said was true.
Obviously, it wasn't.

Well it was the Sindo after all.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on November 23, 2014, 11:33:09 PM
Jeez gimp got some doing at the gpo today. Some protesters laid into him callef him the c word and a muppet ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 24, 2014, 11:40:17 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 23, 2014, 11:33:09 PM
Jeez gimp got some doing at the gpo today. Some protesters laid into him callef him the c word and a muppet ;D

No doubt this is a highlight of your year.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Owenmoresider on November 24, 2014, 11:44:06 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 23, 2014, 11:33:09 PM
Jeez gimp got some doing at the gpo today. Some protesters laid into him callef him the c word and a muppet ;D
Such brave and courageous patriots they are.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 24, 2014, 05:25:16 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on November 24, 2014, 11:44:06 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 23, 2014, 11:33:09 PM
Jeez gimp got some doing at the gpo today. Some protesters laid into him callef him the c word and a muppet ;D
Such brave and courageous patriots they are.
The loony extremists seem to have totally taken over the Water Charges opposition. A gang of them also had a go at Enda in a pub in Ros Town Friday night. A ranting spokeswoman for them was on Shannonside this morning and said their behaviour is OK.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on November 25, 2014, 01:38:16 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on November 24, 2014, 11:44:06 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 23, 2014, 11:33:09 PM
Jeez gimp got some doing at the gpo today. Some protesters laid into him callef him the c word and a muppet ;D
Such brave and courageous patriots they are.
I think you'll discover that they are voters. Something gimp kenny is going to find out soon enough
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 25, 2014, 11:18:38 AM
The type of loony left clowns those extremists will vote for have nothing to offer except maybe North Korea.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on November 25, 2014, 04:57:48 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 25, 2014, 01:38:16 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on November 24, 2014, 11:44:06 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 23, 2014, 11:33:09 PM
Jeez gimp got some doing at the gpo today. Some protesters laid into him callef him the c word and a muppet ;D
Such brave and courageous patriots they are.
I think you'll discover that they are voters. Something gimp kenny is going to find out soon enough
I'd say there's a fair chance they're not voters at all. There's an even higher likelihood that they've never voted for FG.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 25, 2014, 05:05:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 24, 2014, 05:25:16 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on November 24, 2014, 11:44:06 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 23, 2014, 11:33:09 PM
Jeez gimp got some doing at the gpo today. Some protesters laid into him callef him the c word and a muppet ;D
Such brave and courageous patriots they are.
The loony extremists seem to have totally taken over the Water Charges opposition. A gang of them also had a go at Enda in a pub in Ros Town Friday night. A ranting spokeswoman for them was on Shannonside this morning and said their behaviour is OK.
I have no time for these laitchekoes either but WTF was Enda doing in a pub (or anywhere else) in Ros town?
He could hardly expect a rousing reception after breaking his promise to keep the A&E department open in the local hospital before the last GE..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 25, 2014, 06:07:53 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 25, 2014, 01:38:16 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on November 24, 2014, 11:44:06 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 23, 2014, 11:33:09 PM
Jeez gimp got some doing at the gpo today. Some protesters laid into him callef him the c word and a muppet ;D
Such brave and courageous patriots they are.
I think you'll discover that they are voters. Something gimp kenny is going to find out soon enough

The irony is that they are voters only because they are not in power. If they are PUT IN, I see them little chance of ever voting them out.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 25, 2014, 06:47:17 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 25, 2014, 05:05:03 PM
I have no time for these laitchekoes either but WTF was Enda doing in a pub (or anywhere else) in Ros town?
He could hardly expect a rousing reception after breaking his promise to keep the A&E department open in the local hospital before the last GE..

It just shows how detached he is from reality and how arrogant he is.
Maybe the FG brains trust (!?!) are sending him there purposely to elicit sympathy from the public when he does get some abuse thrown at him. They'll do anything to take the sting from Irish Water and create new headlines, just like Burton did.
I wonder will she qualify for disability allowance from the water balloon incident? Better still did she go to A+E to get it checked out?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 02:24:29 AM
Hope there's a big turnout for the protests. Remember everyone can play their part.

Take into consideration the following - goes to show that the "leaders" think nothing of stripping the country

http://directdemocracyireland.ie/eu-say-irelands-domestic-water-charge-exemption-safe-unless-alan-kelly-gives-away-january-1st/

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2014, 07:01:05 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 02:24:29 AM
Hope there's a big turnout for the protests. Remember everyone can play their part.

Take into consideration the following - goes to show that the "leaders" think nothing of stripping the country

http://directdemocracyireland.ie/eu-say-irelands-domestic-water-charge-exemption-safe-unless-alan-kelly-gives-away-january-1st/

Who are Direct Democracy Ireland?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on December 10, 2014, 09:33:36 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2014, 07:01:05 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 02:24:29 AM
Hope there's a big turnout for the protests. Remember everyone can play their part.

Take into consideration the following - goes to show that the "leaders" think nothing of stripping the country

http://directdemocracyireland.ie/eu-say-irelands-domestic-water-charge-exemption-safe-unless-alan-kelly-gives-away-january-1st/

Who are Direct Democracy Ireland?

The devil we don't know.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 10, 2014, 10:56:22 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2014, 07:01:05 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 02:24:29 AM
Hope there's a big turnout for the protests. Remember everyone can play their part.

Take into consideration the following - goes to show that the "leaders" think nothing of stripping the country

http://directdemocracyireland.ie/eu-say-irelands-domestic-water-charge-exemption-safe-unless-alan-kelly-gives-away-january-1st/

Who are Direct Democracy Ireland?
Kim Jong Un's army?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 11:18:33 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2014, 07:01:05 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 02:24:29 AM
Hope there's a big turnout for the protests. Remember everyone can play their part.

Take into consideration the following - goes to show that the "leaders" think nothing of stripping the country

http://directdemocracyireland.ie/eu-say-irelands-domestic-water-charge-exemption-safe-unless-alan-kelly-gives-away-january-1st/

Who are Direct Democracy Ireland?

dont really know of them but if Kathy sinnott is part of them they must be harmless enough yet will voice their opposition to some of the crazy stuff that main political parties did/do

I agree that it is mental that the people are only up in arms now against fg , but the whole ff fiasco went by without much of a protest.

maybe people were stunned and too lazy to do anything then and the culmination of successive bullsiht has them no out on the streets.

I have no faith in any of the politicians as they are all seemingly me feiners.

while people possibly correctly say that we were told that our ordinary taxes included water treatment, road, infastructure, social welfare etc- the problem is that these have all been so badl managed (mismanaged) that extra cash is required.
Meanwhile the issue of mismanagement (public sector) still remains.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 10, 2014, 11:29:47 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

Are you saying we're more forgiving of FF than FG? FG have never had as bad an election result as FF did in the last one, and that's the only place a protest counts.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 12:23:27 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 10, 2014, 11:29:47 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

Are you saying we're more forgiving of FF than FG? FG have never had as bad an election result as FF did in the last one, and that's the only place a protest counts.

I'm saying we're the stupidest f*ckers on planet earth.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 10, 2014, 12:39:01 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 12:23:27 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 10, 2014, 11:29:47 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

Are you saying we're more forgiving of FF than FG? FG have never had as bad an election result as FF did in the last one, and that's the only place a protest counts.

I'm saying we're the stupidest f*ckers on planet earth.

Um, okay. Seems a bit of a stretch to me, but each to their own.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 12:46:12 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 12:23:27 PM
I'm saying we're the stupidest f*ckers on planet earth.

This may be a bit strong, but after such mighty recession it is all a bit depressing. You have all the inane comments on the radio today about people "already paying for water" and when the central bank proposes limiting the amount banks can loan people you have outrage over the injustice of it all, and this after tens of thousands of people borrowed too much!

QuoteMeanwhile the issue of mismanagement (public sector) still remains.

This in part remains because nobody bears down on it. Public comment seems unable to distinguish between relatively well managed and badly managed services lumping them all into one general rant. The media doesn't help, one article I read a few months ago about some new civil service office mentioned 3 times that there was "free wifi" in the office, as if this was some sort of outrage and the employees should have to pay to do their work! The proliferation of these risible articles means that real waste isn't really targeted.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 10, 2014, 12:57:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 12:46:12 PM
This may be a bit strong, but after such mighty recession it is all a bit depressing. You have all the inane comments on the radio today about people "already paying for water" and when the central bank proposes limiting the amount banks can loan people you have outrage over the injustice of it all, and this after tens of thousands of people borrowed too much!

Can't disagree with that, but there's nothing irrational in the ostensibly disproportionate reactions to FF bringing us to the brink of ruin and FG introducing water charges. The costs of the various bailouts were spread across everyone, they were mostly hidden, they were introduced in a time of extreme turmoil and to the accompaniment of much finger-wagging from the chattering classes that we were All To Blame - not true, but that was the narrative at the time. Wind forward a few years and you have a not-so-stealth tax being introduced just at a time when the burden was meant to be on the way down, a tax on an item with a particular emotion resonance for people - it's water, for chrissake! - and just when the coalition of 2.5 parties that has governed since the year dot and habitually bolstered by the dreaded meeja was going into meltdown.

In short, you may not like the different reactions but there's nothing stupid about it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 02:09:43 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

It's not just about water charges. It's about the total mismanagement by successive governments.

If you read the article I posted it involves giving up the right of the irish people to another natural resource and handing it over to europe to do what it will. Once given away there won't be any going back. Remember the Lisbon treaty and how they forced a re-vote to get their way by using scare tactics?

I'd say this is important enough to protest about, no?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 02:58:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 12:46:12 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 12:23:27 PM
I'm saying we're the stupidest f*ckers on planet earth.

This may be a bit strong, but after such mighty recession it is all a bit depressing. You have all the inane comments on the radio today about people "already paying for water" and when the central bank proposes limiting the amount banks can loan people you have outrage over the injustice of it all, and this after tens of thousands of people borrowed too much!

QuoteMeanwhile the issue of mismanagement (public sector) still remains.

This in part remains because nobody bears down on it. Public comment seems unable to distinguish between relatively well managed and badly managed services lumping them all into one general rant. The media doesn't help, one article I read a few months ago about some new civil service office mentioned 3 times that there was "free wifi" in the office, as if this was some sort of outrage and the employees should have to pay to do their work! The proliferation of these risible articles means that real waste isn't really targeted.
on the wifi - dont now the article, but there would be no need for employees in civil service to use wifi when they would and should have wired network.
that would be a bit of a luxury.
wifi for guests/visitors/customers is a different matter.


on the matter of generalising about civil service.
having worked in a couple of agencies and still dealing with many, I was party to the waste of monies by them and the waste in terms of lazy work-to-rule/thats-not-my-job types that are part and parcel of ALL the agencies that I have worked in or have worked with.
Many great people and fantastic workers are being held back by co-workers and the negative atmosphere in many of these placs. its the majority not the minority.
I have said for a long time now- over 10 years, we need a root and branch overhaul of th epublic sector. But as they hold th epower over successive governments, this is unlikely to happen.

waste. waste of taxpayers money is the net result. thus increased taxes to the ordinary joe/joesephine!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 03:19:12 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 02:58:43 PM
on the wifi - dont now the article, but there would be no need for employees in civil service to use wifi when they would and should have wired network.
that would be a bit of a luxury.
wifi for guests/visitors/customers is a different matter.

One way or another a couple of wifi routers cost feck all.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 02:58:43 PM
on the matter of generalising about civil service.
having worked in a couple of agencies and still dealing with many, I was party to the waste of monies by them and the waste in terms of lazy work-to-rule/thats-not-my-job types that are part and parcel of ALL the agencies that I have worked in or have worked with.
Many great people and fantastic workers are being held back by co-workers and the negative atmosphere in many of these placs. its the majority not the minority.
I have said for a long time now- over 10 years, we need a root and branch overhaul of th epublic sector. But as they hold th epower over successive governments, this is unlikely to happen.

The government has to propose measures of performance, which allow efficiency be measured in some reasonable way, but this type of think is anathema to a politician as if public service performance is measured then so is the politician and politicians can no longer spout off. When measures are introduced they are ignored. Take the recent programme on the ambulance service, there are inefficiencies there, but there are also simply not enough ambulances by any rational measure. Why do the marchers today not require targets and targets that are met?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 03:28:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 02:09:43 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

It's not just about water charges. It's about the total mismanagement by successive governments.

If you read the article I posted it involves giving up the right of the irish people to another natural resource and handing it over to europe to do what it will. Once given away there won't be any going back. Remember the Lisbon treaty and how they forced a re-vote to get their way by using scare tactics?

I'd say this is important enough to protest about, no?

Water treated for drinking purposes is not a natural resource. 

If you don't like the way you're been governed, you vote accordingly.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 10, 2014, 03:52:27 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 03:28:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 02:09:43 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

It's not just about water charges. It's about the total mismanagement by successive governments.

If you read the article I posted it involves giving up the right of the irish people to another natural resource and handing it over to europe to do what it will. Once given away there won't be any going back. Remember the Lisbon treaty and how they forced a re-vote to get their way by using scare tactics?

I'd say this is important enough to protest about, no?

Water treated for drinking purposes is not a natural resource. 

If you don't like the way you're been governed, you vote accordingly.
I just do a  ::) when I see a statement like "mismanagement by successive Governments". Maybe Fox might list all the measures ( realistic not airy fairy pie in the Sky nonsense) he'd consider proper management?
As for the Water charge protest - if Higgins, Coppinger, Boyd Barrett, Murphy and Daly are against something then I'm all for it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 10, 2014, 04:27:15 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 03:28:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 02:09:43 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

It's not just about water charges. It's about the total mismanagement by successive governments.

If you read the article I posted it involves giving up the right of the irish people to another natural resource and handing it over to europe to do what it will. Once given away there won't be any going back. Remember the Lisbon treaty and how they forced a re-vote to get their way by using scare tactics?

I'd say this is important enough to protest about, no?

Water treated for drinking purposes is not a natural resource. 

And even putting that aside, the treatment of wastewater seems to be constantly overlooked in this discussion.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 10, 2014, 04:31:48 PM
QuoteBrendan Ogle, from Right2Water and the Unite union, estimated numbers earlier at between 70 to 80 thousand.
Gardaí have told us numbers are more like 30 to 35 thousand.
http://www.thejournal.ie/live-water-charges-protest-1826150-Dec2014/

The Government will surely be happy enough if it's close to the lower figure there. Not sure how you'll ever get a reliable figure for a march like this.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 04:48:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 03:19:12 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 02:58:43 PM
on the wifi - dont now the article, but there would be no need for employees in civil service to use wifi when they would and should have wired network.
that would be a bit of a luxury.
wifi for guests/visitors/customers is a different matter.

One way or another a couple of wifi routers cost feck all.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 02:58:43 PM
on the matter of generalising about civil service.
having worked in a couple of agencies and still dealing with many, I was party to the waste of monies by them and the waste in terms of lazy work-to-rule/thats-not-my-job types that are part and parcel of ALL the agencies that I have worked in or have worked with.
Many great people and fantastic workers are being held back by co-workers and the negative atmosphere in many of these placs. its the majority not the minority.
I have said for a long time now- over 10 years, we need a root and branch overhaul of th epublic sector. But as they hold th epower over successive governments, this is unlikely to happen.

The government has to propose measures of performance, which allow efficiency be measured in some reasonable way, but this type of think is anathema to a politician as if public service performance is measured then so is the politician and politicians can no longer spout off. When measures are introduced they are ignored. Take the recent programme on the ambulance service, there are inefficiencies there, but there are also simply not enough ambulances by any rational measure. Why do the marchers today not require targets and targets that are met?
I didnt go marching and I dont know what 'targets' the marchers are looking for.

the civil service (in some depts) have performance management systems/practices - and yet their employees still pass , and in some cases even qualify for bonuses - despite doing a rubbish below par job.
i have seen it.

A gov is voted in and dont have enough time to concentrate on the civil service

the vote for someone else is often said, but there are no alternatives to vot for.
ff and fg are the same side of a shitty coine.
as are lab and most of the independents
sf havent been in power and so cannot be labelled as this yet.

the kind of people that go for public office seem to the the shitty coin type.

id be all for a dictatorship and have michael o'leary take power.

he would hopefully put in metrics in the civil service where employees have proper targets in a perf mgt system and are penalised by wage deductions if they dont at least hit a 40% or above rating (unlike now where more than a quarter do well to reach the 40-50% bracket).
Underperforming bodies like health, gardai, education, gov agencies - all civil service - should have proper metrics set. Their jobs adjudicated and these people made hit the mark of efficiency.
Duplicate or triplicate covering employees farmed out elsewhere.
Legal people to graft a proper contract to strip bonuses etc if measures not hit.

anyhow none of this will happen.

we have no one decent to elect. there is no choice.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 04:56:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 03:19:12 PM

One way or another a couple of wifi routers cost feck all.


secure wifi ?- used by employees?
connecting to what - leased line?

thats just it. if it is just wifi for employees, irrespective of the cost, it isnt something that the civil service should be giving out or encouraging. There is a cost to it.
there is a security and thus data protection vulnerability to it.

yes it is easy to set up and deliver a wifi connection, but this isnt a guest wifi hot spot.
you said it was for employees???
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 10, 2014, 05:30:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 04:48:42 PM
id be all for a dictatorship and have michael o'leary take power.

Dear God in Heaven preserve us from this and from the loolahs who promote the idea. :-[
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 05:59:51 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoyid be all for a dictatorship and have michael o'leary take power.

he would hopefully put in metrics in the civil service where employees have proper targets in a perf mgt system and are penalised by wage deductions if they dont at least hit a 40% or above rating (unlike now where more than a quarter do well to reach the 40-50% bracket).
Underperforming bodies like health, gardai, education, gov agencies - all civil service - should have proper metrics set. Their jobs adjudicated and these people made hit the mark of efficiency.

This is an example of lack of focus I mentioned, you basically mention everything in the same breath as equally bad and you imply that it is laziness of people that is the sole problem. O'Leary got things done in Ryanair not only by making the baggage handlers process a certain number of bags but also by charging for bags and reducing the the number they had to handle. Bad procedures can mean that the people are working hard as part of inefficient process.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 04:56:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 03:19:12 PM

One way or another a couple of wifi routers cost feck all.


secure wifi ?- used by employees?
connecting to what - leased line?

thats just it. if it is just wifi for employees, irrespective of the cost, it isnt something that the civil service should be giving out or encouraging. There is a cost to it.
there is a security and thus data protection vulnerability to it.

yes it is easy to set up and deliver a wifi connection, but this isnt a guest wifi hot spot.
you said it was for employees???

Really, there is no point in discussing whether there is the optimal security configuration on the strength of a crap newspaper article which didn't describe the purpose of the wifi. The point is that they were objecting to things normal in offices, it is perfectly usual for meeting rooms and the like to have wifi.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 06:57:47 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 03:28:17 PM
If you don't like the way you're been governed, you vote accordingly.

You only get a say at an election. How else do you get the message across if you feel that your government are doing a poor job?
So basically do you give them a free run to do whatever they like in the interim? Making bad decisions for the country has become the norm. Certainly seems that way.

I go back to the article that I posted about giving away Ireland's veto on water charges within the EU. I assume from the lack of responses no-one feels this is a big issue and are happy to toe the line on whatever decisions are being made by the current government.

Similarly those who feel that water charges are no big deal are ignoring the fact that even with these "lower" charges that are being proposed that this is only a temporary measure and once compliance has been forced upon the population the prices will get jacked up in a few years time (or privatised, even though there have been promises it won't happen. Heard that before).
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hound on December 10, 2014, 07:04:29 PM
what did those shower of scumbags think they'd gain by blocking the quays and other city centre roads at rush hour?
Making people coming out after a hard days work having to spend an extra hour plus in the car on their way home is hardly going to attract new followers. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 10, 2014, 07:13:30 PM
Those extremists don't give 2 flying fcuks about people who have to work for a living as it's not something they will be doing.
By the looks of the pictures of the crowd every SF member must have been given a flag to carry.

Foxxommander -the way you change Governements in a Democracy is by voting for other parties in an election.
If we change Govts every time there's a protest march we'd have some chaos.
What are the "bad decisions that have become the norm"? What would you do if you were in Government (in the real world)?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2014, 07:50:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 02:09:43 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

It's not just about water charges. It's about the total mismanagement by successive governments.

If you read the article I posted it involves giving up the right of the irish people to another natural resource and handing it over to europe to do what it will. Once given away there won't be any going back. Remember the Lisbon treaty and how they forced a re-vote to get their way by using scare tactics?

I'd say this is important enough to protest about, no?

If you are going to refuse to pay, then do the decent thing and go outside and turn off your water. Put up a sign outside your house saying you won't pay for the water, nor will you use any, and you will have the empathy of most and admiration of some.

Bring Dublin to a standstill for something that was signed off 3 years ago is completely idiotic.

But since we were forced into a bailout, there is no point in protesting. Look at Greece. It causes chaos locally, spooks badly needed investors and tourists, and the austerity doesn't go away. Joe Higgins & co will gain a seat or two and that is about it.

Is is worth it?

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on December 10, 2014, 09:12:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 06:57:47 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 03:28:17 PM
If you don't like the way you're been governed, you vote accordingly.

You only get a say at an election. How else do you get the message across if you feel that your government are doing a poor job?
So basically do you give them a free run to do whatever they like in the interim? Making bad decisions for the country has become the norm. Certainly seems that way.

I go back to the article that I posted about giving away Ireland's veto on water charges within the EU. I assume from the lack of responses no-one feels this is a big issue and are happy to toe the line on whatever decisions are being made by the current government.

Similarly those who feel that water charges are no big deal are ignoring the fact that even with these "lower" charges that are being proposed that this is only a temporary measure and once compliance has been forced upon the population the prices will get jacked up in a few years time (or privatised, even though there have been promises it won't happen. Heard that before).
If you want to do it go the whole way. Boycott the health services and the roads and take your kids out of school.
It's all paid for by Government. And has to be funded. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 09:27:34 PM
It is on the RTÉ News now, asteroids brought water to Earth. Why right does Fine Gael have to charge for something that came a billion years ago? It is a disgrace, Joe.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 09:42:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 10, 2014, 07:13:30 PM
Those extremists don't give 2 flying fcuks about people who have to work for a living as it's not something they will be doing.
By the looks of the pictures of the crowd every SF member must have been given a flag to carry.

Foxxommander -the way you change Governements in a Democracy is by voting for other parties in an election.
If we change Govts every time there's a protest march we'd have some chaos.
What are the "bad decisions that have become the norm"? What would you do if you were in Government (in the real world)?

So the elderly and underpriveleged are extremists now. Is Glen Hansard one too?

I wouldn't sign over rights to the EU regarding water charges for a start.

Anyway, you decide to bury your head in the sand so it's not worth debating with you. Vote FG in the next election.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 09:46:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2014, 07:50:05 PM

If you are going to refuse to pay, then do the decent thing and go outside and turn off your water. Put up a sign outside your house saying you won't pay for the water, nor will you use any, and you will have the empathy of most and admiration of some.

Bring Dublin to a standstill for something that was signed off 3 years ago is completely idiotic.

But since we were forced into a bailout, there is no point in protesting. Look at Greece. It causes chaos locally, spooks badly needed investors and tourists, and the austerity doesn't go away. Joe Higgins & co will gain a seat or two and that is about it.

Is is worth it?

Forced into a bailout. And it was accepted without question.
Forced to hand over water rights. accept without question?

If you knew that a water authority were going to do a job properly then it might be accepted. But you know it's another jobs for the boys/profit making exercise. Why's Denis O'Brien involved. For the good of the country?

expected better from you muppet.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 10:32:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 05:59:51 PM
This is an example of lack of focus I mentioned, you basically mention everything in the same breath as equally bad and you imply that it is laziness of people that is the sole problem. O'Leary got things done in Ryanair not only by making the baggage handlers process a certain number of bags but also by charging for bags and reducing the the number they had to handle. Bad procedures can mean that the people are working hard as part of inefficient process.


Give me specifics and I will respond with specifics.
All I am saying here is opinion from actual observations on the waste and dreadful performance in civil service and gov agencies from first hand exp.
I know and acknowledged that there are a lot of good workers, but if the dross and waste were eradicated and the civil service made efficient - then we would save millions which undoubtedly would mean less additional tax requirements etc
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Pangurban on December 10, 2014, 10:41:39 PM
There is no slave worse than the one who kisses his chains, and we have a lot of that type on this forum. Basically Brain Dead individuals
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 10:44:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 05:59:51 PM

Really, there is no point in discussing whether there is the optimal security configuration on the strength of a crap newspaper article which didn't describe the purpose of the wifi. The point is that they were objecting to things normal in offices, it is perfectly usual for meeting rooms and the like to have wifi.
Not in civil service offices it's not!
But maybe there was a requirement.
Not the norm and not for employees.
I'd say GSOC might not want wifi in their meeting rooms any more!

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 10:51:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 10:44:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 05:59:51 PM

Really, there is no point in discussing whether there is the optimal security configuration on the strength of a crap newspaper article which didn't describe the purpose of the wifi. The point is that they were objecting to things normal in offices, it is perfectly usual for meeting rooms and the like to have wifi.
Not in civil service offices it's not!
But maybe there was a requirement.
Not the norm and not for employees.
I'd say GSOC might not want wifi in their meeting rooms any more!

This is also the point, people seem to expect the civil service to bring enormous great dusty ledgers to meetings instead of using their tablet like everyone else. Not every form of access has to be on wi-fi, of course.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 10:54:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2014, 07:50:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 02:09:43 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

It's not just about water charges. It's about the total mismanagement by successive governments.

If you read the article I posted it involves giving up the right of the irish people to another natural resource and handing it over to europe to do what it will. Once given away there won't be any going back. Remember the Lisbon treaty and how they forced a re-vote to get their way by using scare tactics?

I'd say this is important enough to protest about, no?

If you are going to refuse to pay, then do the decent thing and go outside and turn off your water. Put up a sign outside your house saying you won't pay for the water, nor will you use any, and you will have the empathy of most and admiration of some.

Bring Dublin to a standstill for something that was signed off 3 years ago is completely idiotic.

But since we were forced into a bailout, there is no point in protesting. Look at Greece. It causes chaos locally, spooks badly needed investors and tourists, and the austerity doesn't go away. Joe Higgins & co will gain a seat or two and that is about it.

Is is worth it?
IMO I'd not bother marching
But what would you reckon is the alternative ?

Voting for someone else in a couple of years time isn't much of a deterrent as we have no choice in politics - only dumb and dumber!
That's why I joked about a dictatorship - but realistically there are no electoral alternatives.
Those that spout the line that we get what we vote for and it's our own fault for voting for these people just don't get it - all our politicians are fat cat me feiners who don't give a fcuk about anyone outside their family circle or political party.

Maybe sf or Lucinda's new party might bring something new and worthwhile but I have my doubts.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 10, 2014, 11:01:16 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.
Bejaysus BB, I think you are a bit OTT here.
There were no massive protests when FF were last in government because nobody was expecting the economy to collapse and the speed at which it began to go pear-shaped, threw everyone into confusion.
But there was no mistaking the  electorate's anger when FF lost about two thirds of its seats at the last GE. That was the mother of all "massive protests" without a doubt.
Peoples' expectations were high when the present Coalition came to power. I think everyone knew there would be tough times ahead but very few expected things to be as bad as they are now. If Enda, Eamon and their confidants knew, they took great care to hide the fact.
When it comes to cronyism, jobs for the boys (and girls,) broken promises and the likes all we are getting is a dose of Fianna Fail lite. A little bit better than FF when we were led to expect the highest of standards in public life is just not good enough.
People aren't turning out in droves in this kind of weather for the fun of it.There's an element of principled objection okay but economic desperation is the main reason for the present widespread discontent.
Sure, we're some country okay but it wasn't the honest citizens who took to the streets today who made it so.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 10, 2014, 11:03:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 10, 2014, 09:12:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 06:57:47 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 03:28:17 PM
If you don't like the way you're been governed, you vote accordingly.

You only get a say at an election. How else do you get the message across if you feel that your government are doing a poor job?
So basically do you give them a free run to do whatever they like in the interim? Making bad decisions for the country has become the norm. Certainly seems that way.

I go back to the article that I posted about giving away Ireland's veto on water charges within the EU. I assume from the lack of responses no-one feels this is a big issue and are happy to toe the line on whatever decisions are being made by the current government.

Similarly those who feel that water charges are no big deal are ignoring the fact that even with these "lower" charges that are being proposed that this is only a temporary measure and once compliance has been forced upon the population the prices will get jacked up in a few years time (or privatised, even though there have been promises it won't happen. Heard that before).
If you want to do it go the whole way. Boycott the health services and the roads and take your kids out of school.
It's all paid for by Government. And has to be funded.

No it isn't. It is paid for by tax-payers. You would do well to remember that.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 10, 2014, 11:13:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 10:54:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2014, 07:50:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 02:09:43 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

It's not just about water charges. It's about the total mismanagement by successive governments.

If you read the article I posted it involves giving up the right of the irish people to another natural resource and handing it over to europe to do what it will. Once given away there won't be any going back. Remember the Lisbon treaty and how they forced a re-vote to get their way by using scare tactics?

I'd say this is important enough to protest about, no?

If you are going to refuse to pay, then do the decent thing and go outside and turn off your water. Put up a sign outside your house saying you won't pay for the water, nor will you use any, and you will have the empathy of most and admiration of some.

Bring Dublin to a standstill for something that was signed off 3 years ago is completely idiotic.

But since we were forced into a bailout, there is no point in protesting. Look at Greece. It causes chaos locally, spooks badly needed investors and tourists, and the austerity doesn't go away. Joe Higgins & co will gain a seat or two and that is about it.

Is is worth it?
IMO I'd not bother marching
But what would you reckon is the alternative ?

Voting for someone else in a couple of years time isn't much of a deterrent as we have no choice in politics - only dumb and dumber!
That's why I joked about a dictatorship - but realistically there are no electoral alternatives.
Those that spout the line that we get what we vote for and it's our own fault for voting for these people just don't get it - all our politicians are fat cat me feiners who don't give a fcuk about anyone outside their family circle or political party.

Maybe sf or Lucinda's new party might bring something new and worthwhile but I have my doubts.

Why do you think that there are , apparently, no good political candidates ? Is it symptomatic of a  deeper problem in Irish society ?

Why is it that good people don't run for office ?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 11:20:59 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 10, 2014, 11:13:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 10:54:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2014, 07:50:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 02:09:43 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

It's not just about water charges. It's about the total mismanagement by successive governments.

If you read the article I posted it involves giving up the right of the irish people to another natural resource and handing it over to europe to do what it will. Once given away there won't be any going back. Remember the Lisbon treaty and how they forced a re-vote to get their way by using scare tactics?

I'd say this is important enough to protest about, no?

If you are going to refuse to pay, then do the decent thing and go outside and turn off your water. Put up a sign outside your house saying you won't pay for the water, nor will you use any, and you will have the empathy of most and admiration of some.

Bring Dublin to a standstill for something that was signed off 3 years ago is completely idiotic.

But since we were forced into a bailout, there is no point in protesting. Look at Greece. It causes chaos locally, spooks badly needed investors and tourists, and the austerity doesn't go away. Joe Higgins & co will gain a seat or two and that is about it.

Is is worth it?
IMO I'd not bother marching
But what would you reckon is the alternative ?

Voting for someone else in a couple of years time isn't much of a deterrent as we have no choice in politics - only dumb and dumber!
That's why I joked about a dictatorship - but realistically there are no electoral alternatives.
Those that spout the line that we get what we vote for and it's our own fault for voting for these people just don't get it - all our politicians are fat cat me feiners who don't give a fcuk about anyone outside their family circle or political party.

Maybe sf or Lucinda's new party might bring something new and worthwhile but I have my doubts.

Why do you think that there are , apparently, no good political candidates ? Is it symptomatic of a  deeper problem in Irish society ?

Why is it that good people don't run for office ?
Thought about that before
Prob loads of reasons

Surely ' as politics attracts inept useless megalomaniac idiot narcissists ' can't be the only reason !!

Any captains of industry stay in industry - societal and business failures seem to head to the dail !
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 10, 2014, 11:35:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 09:46:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2014, 07:50:05 PM

If you are going to refuse to pay, then do the decent thing and go outside and turn off your water. Put up a sign outside your house saying you won't pay for the water, nor will you use any, and you will have the empathy of most and admiration of some.

Bring Dublin to a standstill for something that was signed off 3 years ago is completely idiotic.

But since we were forced into a bailout, there is no point in protesting. Look at Greece. It causes chaos locally, spooks badly needed investors and tourists, and the austerity doesn't go away. Joe Higgins & co will gain a seat or two and that is about it.

Is is worth it?

Forced into a bailout. And it was accepted without question.
Forced to hand over water rights. accept without question?

If you knew that a water authority were going to do a job properly then it might be accepted. But you know it's another jobs for the boys/profit making exercise. Why's Denis O'Brien involved. For the good of the country?

expected better from you muppet.

What?

We accepted a guarantee of €500n of bank debts without a murmur (except some of us here - check the Bailout thread). Sinn Féin even voted for it.
We accepted the Troika Bailout without a word. And bailout means we were force fed high interest loans which we have to pay back along with some painful medicine. Again not a word from our heroic demonstrators.

But now it seems the straw that breaks the camels back is poxy water charges. 10s of thousands of people manage to get off work (how exactly do they always manage to do that?) to disrupt the rest of us who actually work and pay for everything - to demand that we pay more.

If they don't want to pay for water, fine. But they should be cut off. If it is a natural resource they will have no bother finding it.

Better than that me arse.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 11, 2014, 04:35:07 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2014, 11:35:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 09:46:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2014, 07:50:05 PM

If you are going to refuse to pay, then do the decent thing and go outside and turn off your water. Put up a sign outside your house saying you won't pay for the water, nor will you use any, and you will have the empathy of most and admiration of some.

Bring Dublin to a standstill for something that was signed off 3 years ago is completely idiotic.

But since we were forced into a bailout, there is no point in protesting. Look at Greece. It causes chaos locally, spooks badly needed investors and tourists, and the austerity doesn't go away. Joe Higgins & co will gain a seat or two and that is about it.

Is is worth it?

Forced into a bailout. And it was accepted without question.
Forced to hand over water rights. accept without question?

If you knew that a water authority were going to do a job properly then it might be accepted. But you know it's another jobs for the boys/profit making exercise. Why's Denis O'Brien involved. For the good of the country?

expected better from you muppet.

What?

We accepted a guarantee of €500n of bank debts without a murmur (except some of us here - check the Bailout thread). Sinn Féin even voted for it.
We accepted the Troika Bailout without a word. And bailout means we were force fed high interest loans which we have to pay back along with some painful medicine. Again not a word from our heroic demonstrators.

But now it seems the straw that breaks the camels back is poxy water charges. 10s of thousands of people manage to get off work (how exactly do they always manage to do that?) to disrupt the rest of us who actually work and pay for everything - to demand that we pay more.

If they don't want to pay for water, fine. But they should be cut off. If it is a natural resource they will have no bother finding it.

Better than that me arse.

The general population aren't economics graduates so they trusted the governments of the time to get the best deals possible.
Had it been clearer what the deal on the table was exactly you'd have seen similar protests. Sure even Brian Lenihan didn't have the foggiest what was happening, how do you expect the ordinary punter to have such an insight.

Advocating cutting water supplies to the poorer people in society? Again, thought better of you than that.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 11, 2014, 04:52:53 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 10, 2014, 11:03:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 10, 2014, 09:12:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 06:57:47 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 03:28:17 PM
If you don't like the way you're been governed, you vote accordingly.

You only get a say at an election. How else do you get the message across if you feel that your government are doing a poor job?
So basically do you give them a free run to do whatever they like in the interim? Making bad decisions for the country has become the norm. Certainly seems that way.

I go back to the article that I posted about giving away Ireland's veto on water charges within the EU. I assume from the lack of responses no-one feels this is a big issue and are happy to toe the line on whatever decisions are being made by the current government.

Similarly those who feel that water charges are no big deal are ignoring the fact that even with these "lower" charges that are being proposed that this is only a temporary measure and once compliance has been forced upon the population the prices will get jacked up in a few years time (or privatised, even though there have been promises it won't happen. Heard that before).
If you want to do it go the whole way. Boycott the health services and the roads and take your kids out of school.
It's all paid for by Government. And has to be funded.

No it isn't. It is paid for by tax-payers. You would do well to remember that.

You've obviously been swallowing the government message a little too much Seafoid. It's not THEIR money but just goes to show how constant brainwashing and spin is effective.

This is what Ireland has become. Greed from some of the better off in society making sure that the lower on the totem pole are stripped of the basics needs to exist.
St Vincent DePaul will be even busier this xmas. Simon community too. Food banks will start popping up all over the place. The secret poor will be forced out into the open, these numbers are a lot higher than you would think.

Also goes to show how effective the government have been on deepening the divides among the people into haves and have nots.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 08:47:03 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 04:48:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 03:19:12 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 02:58:43 PM
on the wifi - dont now the article, but there would be no need for employees in civil service to use wifi when they would and should have wired network.
that would be a bit of a luxury.
wifi for guests/visitors/customers is a different matter.

One way or another a couple of wifi routers cost feck all.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 02:58:43 PM
on the matter of generalising about civil service.
having worked in a couple of agencies and still dealing with many, I was party to the waste of monies by them and the waste in terms of lazy work-to-rule/thats-not-my-job types that are part and parcel of ALL the agencies that I have worked in or have worked with.
Many great people and fantastic workers are being held back by co-workers and the negative atmosphere in many of these placs. its the majority not the minority.
I have said for a long time now- over 10 years, we need a root and branch overhaul of th epublic sector. But as they hold th epower over successive governments, this is unlikely to happen.

The government has to propose measures of performance, which allow efficiency be measured in some reasonable way, but this type of think is anathema to a politician as if public service performance is measured then so is the politician and politicians can no longer spout off. When measures are introduced they are ignored. Take the recent programme on the ambulance service, there are inefficiencies there, but there are also simply not enough ambulances by any rational measure. Why do the marchers today not require targets and targets that are met?
I didnt go marching and I dont know what 'targets' the marchers are looking for.

the civil service (in some depts) have performance management systems/practices - and yet their employees still pass , and in some cases even qualify for bonuses - despite doing a rubbish below par job.
i have seen it.

A gov is voted in and dont have enough time to concentrate on the civil service

the vote for someone else is often said, but there are no alternatives to vot for.
ff and fg are the same side of a shitty coine.
as are lab and most of the independents
sf havent been in power and so cannot be labelled as this yet.

the kind of people that go for public office seem to the the shitty coin type.

id be all for a dictatorship and have michael o'leary take power.

he would hopefully put in metrics in the civil service where employees have proper targets in a perf mgt system and are penalised by wage deductions if they dont at least hit a 40% or above rating (unlike now where more than a quarter do well to reach the 40-50% bracket).
Underperforming bodies like health, gardai, education, gov agencies - all civil service - should have proper metrics set. Their jobs adjudicated and these people made hit the mark of efficiency.
Duplicate or triplicate covering employees farmed out elsewhere.
Legal people to graft a proper contract to strip bonuses etc if measures not hit.

anyhow none of this will happen.

we have no one decent to elect. there is no choice.
Given that the context is public sector performance / reform, SF has been in power in NI for almost two mandates at this stage - a look at the Northern Ireland Civil Service should give you a good idea of what you might expect if SF gain power in the south.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 08:54:42 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 10, 2014, 11:13:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 10:54:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2014, 07:50:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 02:09:43 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.

It's not just about water charges. It's about the total mismanagement by successive governments.

If you read the article I posted it involves giving up the right of the irish people to another natural resource and handing it over to europe to do what it will. Once given away there won't be any going back. Remember the Lisbon treaty and how they forced a re-vote to get their way by using scare tactics?

I'd say this is important enough to protest about, no?

If you are going to refuse to pay, then do the decent thing and go outside and turn off your water. Put up a sign outside your house saying you won't pay for the water, nor will you use any, and you will have the empathy of most and admiration of some.

Bring Dublin to a standstill for something that was signed off 3 years ago is completely idiotic.

But since we were forced into a bailout, there is no point in protesting. Look at Greece. It causes chaos locally, spooks badly needed investors and tourists, and the austerity doesn't go away. Joe Higgins & co will gain a seat or two and that is about it.

Is is worth it?
IMO I'd not bother marching
But what would you reckon is the alternative ?

Voting for someone else in a couple of years time isn't much of a deterrent as we have no choice in politics - only dumb and dumber!
That's why I joked about a dictatorship - but realistically there are no electoral alternatives.
Those that spout the line that we get what we vote for and it's our own fault for voting for these people just don't get it - all our politicians are fat cat me feiners who don't give a fcuk about anyone outside their family circle or political party.

Maybe sf or Lucinda's new party might bring something new and worthwhile but I have my doubts.

Why do you think that there are , apparently, no good political candidates ? Is it symptomatic of a  deeper problem in Irish society ?

Why is it that good people don't run for office ?
For most people - particularly those who'd be capable - it's just more hassle than it's worth. It's a thankless task. And while the media and the public continually berate salaries, they're actually fairly modest in the grand scheme of things, in that a doctor, accountant, solicitor, engineer (add any number of professional jobs here) with 10+years post-qualification experience could feasibly earn more than a TD, without the public scrutiny, or the need to be available pretty much 24/7.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Billys Boots on December 11, 2014, 09:04:48 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 10, 2014, 11:01:16 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.
Bejaysus BB, I think you are a bit OTT here.
There were no massive protests when FF were last in government because nobody was expecting the economy to collapse and the speed at which it began to go pear-shaped, threw everyone into confusion.
But there was no mistaking the  electorate's anger when FF lost about two thirds of its seats at the last GE. That was the mother of all "massive protests" without a doubt.
Peoples' expectations were high when the present Coalition came to power. I think everyone knew there would be tough times ahead but very few expected things to be as bad as they are now. If Enda, Eamon and their confidants knew, they took great care to hide the fact.
When it comes to cronyism, jobs for the boys (and girls,) broken promises and the likes all we are getting is a dose of Fianna Fail lite. A little bit better than FF when we were led to expect the highest of standards in public life is just not good enough.
People aren't turning out in droves in this kind of weather for the fun of it.There's an element of principled objection okay but economic desperation is the main reason for the present widespread discontent.
Sure, we're some country okay but it wasn't the honest citizens who took to the streets today who made it so.

This water-charges protesting nonsense annoys me a lot - it's a complete red herring.  If the 'brains' behind these protests thought they'd change anything it wouldn't be happening. 

I don't think anyone who had been watching the collapse had high expectations of this Govt - how could they have?  The incumbent's hands were tied, their budget income was decimated and they were expected to 'fix' what FF had done, with feck all resources.  And guess what - take a look around you, things are starting to move slowly again, the debt burden is starting to lift again, and those lucky enough to have jobs can see a few extra quid in their pockets.  The unemployment figures are improving slowly, and the builders are starting to build again.  And SF/FF are running scared and stirring shite; what's new?

Sure Irish Water is a mess - sure there are a bunch of incompetent gobshites appointed to do an important job, that will take longer to do than it should.  But what is happening is making a currently amateur operation undertakne by local authorities into a professional outfit, just like the rest of the civilised world.  What we should be asking ourselves is why it has taken so long to do (there's a two-letter answer to that question).  Let me assure you, in 20 years time we'll be glad we did it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 09:10:12 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 10, 2014, 11:01:16 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.
Bejaysus BB, I think you are a bit OTT here.
There were no massive protests when FF were last in government because nobody was expecting the economy to collapse and the speed at which it began to go pear-shaped, threw everyone into confusion.
But there was no mistaking the  electorate's anger when FF lost about two thirds of its seats at the last GE. That was the mother of all "massive protests" without a doubt.
Peoples' expectations were high when the present Coalition came to power. I think everyone knew there would be tough times ahead but very few expected things to be as bad as they are now. If Enda, Eamon and their confidants knew, they took great care to hide the fact.
When it comes to cronyism, jobs for the boys (and girls,) broken promises and the likes all we are getting is a dose of Fianna Fail lite. A little bit better than FF when we were led to expect the highest of standards in public life is just not good enough.
People aren't turning out in droves in this kind of weather for the fun of it.There's an element of principled objection okay but economic desperation is the main reason for the present widespread discontent.
Sure, we're some country okay but it wasn't the honest citizens who took to the streets today who made it so.
Whatever about Labour (who were ambiguous), FG were quite upfront in their manifesto that there would be water charges.
On the issue of political reform, most definitely, the current government has failed massively.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 11, 2014, 09:25:42 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 11, 2014, 09:04:48 AM
I don't think anyone who had been watching the collapse had high expectations of this Govt - how could they have?  The incumbent's hands were tied, their budget income was decimated and they were expected to 'fix' what FF had done, with feck all resources.  And guess what - take a look around you, things are starting to move slowly again, the debt burden is starting to lift again, and those lucky enough to have jobs can see a few extra quid in their pockets.  The unemployment figures are improving slowly, and the builders are starting to build again.  And SF/FF are running scared and stirring shite; what's new?

Seeing as the policy that the government followed was pretty much everything FF set up in the final days of the previous Dáil then I suppose FF should take some of the credit, right? Of course not, not just on a moral basis but because the recovery is so anaemic. GDP is still below 2007 levels (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ireland/gdp), and it's easy to have an improvement when you start from such a low base. As for SF 'running scared', I'd love to think this was the case but it wasn't SF who got absolutely stuffed in the European and local elections.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Billys Boots on December 11, 2014, 09:37:11 AM
QuoteSeeing as the policy that the government followed was pretty much everything FF set up in the final days of the previous Dáil

Really? - it was my impression that FF was forced to 'set up' what you're describing by the IMF and the incumbents had no choice but to run with it. 

2007 levels of GDP would have been at the peak of the last construction bubble, if I recall correctly - do we really want to go back there?  Is that our baseline for progress comparisons?

I think that at current levels of 'progress' that the govt should be in an ok place when the next elections come around. 

I'm beginning to sound like an FG fan, which I'm not - I think they were handed the shit end of the stick when they won the last election.  I'd like to see them get two terms to put their 'stamp' on a recovering country and I, personally, won't be 'judging' them on this term.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 11, 2014, 09:54:01 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 11, 2014, 09:37:11 AM
QuoteSeeing as the policy that the government followed was pretty much everything FF set up in the final days of the previous Dáil

Really? - it was my impression that FF was forced to 'set up' what you're describing by the IMF and the incumbents had no choice but to run with it. 

2007 levels of GDP would have been at the peak of the last construction bubble, if I recall correctly - do we really want to go back there?  Is that our baseline for progress comparisons?

I think that at current levels of 'progress' that the govt should be in an ok place when the next elections come around. 

I'm beginning to sound like an FG fan, which I'm not - I think they were handed the shit end of the stick when they won the last election.  I'd like to see them get two terms to put their 'stamp' on a recovering country and I, personally, won't be 'judging' them on this term.

I'd hate to see what an FG fan would be saying if you're not one. Why should we feel sorry for them? No one forced them to run for office. They swept into power with a mandate to change things and delivered more of the same. You can argue that they had no choice, but a) they did; they could have applied their own manifesto, and b) what's the point in having elections at all if we can't give a verdict on their performance in the lifetime of the Dáil? They chose to succumb to a technocratic view of the recovery that has imposed untold misery on millions - that's not an exaggeration - and didn't even work on it's own merits. The government are going to get an absolute kicking come the next election, and they absolutely deserve it, FG for their Victorian view of public policy that views government debt as a moral failing rather than a tool for preventing economic implosion, and Labour for conniving in said policy.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Billys Boots on December 11, 2014, 09:58:09 AM
Fine, we'll agree to disagree so. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 11, 2014, 10:00:28 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 11, 2014, 09:58:09 AM
Fine, we'll agree to disagree so.

You're no fun ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 11, 2014, 10:53:08 AM
Deiseach, who do you advocate we vote for in the next election if we're going to give FG and Lab a kicking ? FF SF Looney  left  100 Independents...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 11, 2014, 11:18:09 AM
..and also elaborate on exactly what you would change policy wise. Give specific details.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 11, 2014, 11:21:35 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 09:10:12 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 10, 2014, 11:01:16 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.
Bejaysus BB, I think you are a bit OTT here.
There were no massive protests when FF were last in government because nobody was expecting the economy to collapse and the speed at which it began to go pear-shaped, threw everyone into confusion.
But there was no mistaking the  electorate's anger when FF lost about two thirds of its seats at the last GE. That was the mother of all "massive protests" without a doubt.
Peoples' expectations were high when the present Coalition came to power. I think everyone knew there would be tough times ahead but very few expected things to be as bad as they are now. If Enda, Eamon and their confidants knew, they took great care to hide the fact.
When it comes to cronyism, jobs for the boys (and girls,) broken promises and the likes all we are getting is a dose of Fianna Fail lite. A little bit better than FF when we were led to expect the highest of standards in public life is just not good enough.
People aren't turning out in droves in this kind of weather for the fun of it.There's an element of principled objection okay but economic desperation is the main reason for the present widespread discontent.
Sure, we're some country okay but it wasn't the honest citizens who took to the streets today who made it so.
Whatever about Labour (who were ambiguous), FG were quite upfront in their manifesto that there would be water charges.
On the issue of political reform, most definitely, the current government has failed massively.
I can agree with both points without any problem.

FG were quite upfront about the introduction of water charges but the way in which they went about introducing them left a lot to be desired, to put it mildly.

It was a classic example of how not to win the hearts and minds of the people and it showed that the government was very much out of touch with reality. I referring here toi ts  initial policy.

As I have said, I believe that we would now have water charges if the government had put the revised proposals to the electorate in the first place. There's a mighty big gap between what they attempted to get and are now happy to accept which now undermines the credibility of the present administration.

I genuinely hope that there won't be an early election, not because I have much confidence in the present incumbent but the result would leave us in an even bigger mess than the one we're in right now.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 11, 2014, 11:29:42 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 11, 2014, 10:53:08 AM
Deiseach, who do you advocate we vote for in the next election if we're going to give FG and Lab a kicking ? FF SF Looney  left  100 Independents...

As of now, I'll be spoiling my ballot paper.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 11, 2014, 12:00:34 PM
Ah, the Russell Brand approach.

The system is not perfect for sure but, as a wise man on here once said "perfect is the enemy of good". Opting out is not the solution.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 11, 2014, 12:03:12 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 11, 2014, 11:29:42 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 11, 2014, 10:53:08 AM
Deiseach, who do you advocate we vote for in the next election if we're going to give FG and Lab a kicking ? FF SF Looney  left  100 Independents...

As of now, I'll be spoiling my ballot paper.

Ahhh for fcuk sake...... >:(
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 11, 2014, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 11, 2014, 12:03:12 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 11, 2014, 11:29:42 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 11, 2014, 10:53:08 AM
Deiseach, who do you advocate we vote for in the next election if we're going to give FG and Lab a kicking ? FF SF Looney  left  100 Independents...

As of now, I'll be spoiling my ballot paper.

Ahhh for fcuk sake...... >:(

That hurts, that really does ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Bingo on December 11, 2014, 12:35:24 PM
(http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/images/none-of-the-above-screenshot.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: JoG2 on December 11, 2014, 12:40:25 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 11, 2014, 12:00:34 PM
Ah, the Russell Brand approach.

The system is not perfect for sure but, as a wise man on here once said "perfect is the enemy of good". Opting out is not the solution.

maybe the understatement of the century


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 11, 2014, 12:43:48 PM
Quote from: Bingo on December 11, 2014, 12:35:24 PM
(http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/images/none-of-the-above-screenshot.jpg)

Richard Pryor at his most coke-addled . . . I wouldn't vote for him. But I had to give it some thought.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 11, 2014, 12:48:41 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 11, 2014, 12:40:25 PM
maybe the understatement of the century

I'll fulfill what I see as my civic duty and get off my butt to cast my vote. But why vote for something that I think is a terrible option? "Because it's not as bad as the others"? Cleisthenes would be proud.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 12:52:47 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 11, 2014, 12:48:41 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 11, 2014, 12:40:25 PM
maybe the understatement of the century

I'll fulfill what I see as my civic duty and get off my butt to cast my vote. But why vote for something that I think is a terrible option? "Because it's not as bad as the others"? Cleisthenes would be proud.
Well if someone's going to get in, surely the 'least worst' option is the 'best' potential outcome.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 11, 2014, 12:57:49 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 12:52:47 PM
Well if someone's going to get in, surely the 'least worst' option is the 'best' potential outcome.

If it were an either/or choice, then I'd agree. But it isn't. None of the likely winners have anything to say to me. Maybe I'll vote for some Natural Law-style kook. I remember the disappointment I felt when voting in Liverpool that there wasn't a candidate like that. In the end, I did something really bad - voted for the Lib Dems :-[
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 10:51:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 10:44:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 05:59:51 PM

Really, there is no point in discussing whether there is the optimal security configuration on the strength of a crap newspaper article which didn't describe the purpose of the wifi. The point is that they were objecting to things normal in offices, it is perfectly usual for meeting rooms and the like to have wifi.
Not in civil service offices it's not!
But maybe there was a requirement.
Not the norm and not for employees.
I'd say GSOC might not want wifi in their meeting rooms any more!

This is also the point, people seem to expect the civil service to bring enormous great dusty ledgers to meetings instead of using their tablet like everyone else. Not every form of access has to be on wi-fi, of course.
or print outs and reports on paper like everyone else..

when I hear about or see civil service dudes bringing tablets and electronic devices to meetings I will let you know !!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 02:45:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 10:51:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 10:44:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 05:59:51 PM

Really, there is no point in discussing whether there is the optimal security configuration on the strength of a crap newspaper article which didn't describe the purpose of the wifi. The point is that they were objecting to things normal in offices, it is perfectly usual for meeting rooms and the like to have wifi.
Not in civil service offices it's not!
But maybe there was a requirement.
Not the norm and not for employees.
I'd say GSOC might not want wifi in their meeting rooms any more!

This is also the point, people seem to expect the civil service to bring enormous great dusty ledgers to meetings instead of using their tablet like everyone else. Not every form of access has to be on wi-fi, of course.
or print outs and reports on paper like everyone else..

when I hear about or see civil service dudes bringing tablets and electronic devices to meetings I will let you know !!
I've seen it. At senior level - not admin / support staff, but at management level, yes.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 04:33:07 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 02:45:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 10:51:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 10:44:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 05:59:51 PM

Really, there is no point in discussing whether there is the optimal security configuration on the strength of a crap newspaper article which didn't describe the purpose of the wifi. The point is that they were objecting to things normal in offices, it is perfectly usual for meeting rooms and the like to have wifi.
Not in civil service offices it's not!
But maybe there was a requirement.
Not the norm and not for employees.
I'd say GSOC might not want wifi in their meeting rooms any more!

This is also the point, people seem to expect the civil service to bring enormous great dusty ledgers to meetings instead of using their tablet like everyone else. Not every form of access has to be on wi-fi, of course.
or print outs and reports on paper like everyone else..

when I hear about or see civil service dudes bringing tablets and electronic devices to meetings I will let you know !!
I've seen it. At senior level - not admin / support staff, but at management level, yes.
south of the border?
ive not seen it. But it will happen. Just not yet. no need for it yet. wired network devices are more accurate and secure. Apart from presentation devices.
its not policy as of yet. Many senior people have devices but they are not 'work' devices even though work might have bought them.

by the way - no guarantee sf will be as good or bad if they ever got into power down here.
different setup and not the mickey mouse effort of the six counties.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 05:22:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 04:33:07 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 02:45:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 10:51:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 10:44:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 05:59:51 PM

Really, there is no point in discussing whether there is the optimal security configuration on the strength of a crap newspaper article which didn't describe the purpose of the wifi. The point is that they were objecting to things normal in offices, it is perfectly usual for meeting rooms and the like to have wifi.
Not in civil service offices it's not!
But maybe there was a requirement.
Not the norm and not for employees.
I'd say GSOC might not want wifi in their meeting rooms any more!

This is also the point, people seem to expect the civil service to bring enormous great dusty ledgers to meetings instead of using their tablet like everyone else. Not every form of access has to be on wi-fi, of course.
or print outs and reports on paper like everyone else..

when I hear about or see civil service dudes bringing tablets and electronic devices to meetings I will let you know !!
I've seen it. At senior level - not admin / support staff, but at management level, yes.
south of the border?
ive not seen it. But it will happen. Just not yet. no need for it yet. wired network devices are more accurate and secure. Apart from presentation devices.
its not policy as of yet. Many senior people have devices but they are not 'work' devices even though work might have bought them.
No, in the north. It's moving with the times - it's not a "luxury" as you described it. I can't comment on the south, but don't see why it shouldn't happen, or why anyone should have difficulty with there being wifi in the civil service, as long as the proper controls are in place.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 04:33:07 PM
by the way - no guarantee sf will be as good or bad if they ever got into power down here.
different setup and not the mickey mouse effort of the six counties.
I was talking strictly in terms of the performance of the civil service, which is as relevant in the north as in the south. On other matters of government, yes, SF has yet to take charge of 'proper' powers, although some might say performance in managing the limited powers at Stormont doesn't bode well.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 11, 2014, 07:08:54 PM
As of now SF in the 26 Cos sound like a rehash of FF1977 - abolish taxes and improve public services.
Not even SF can have that much money stashed away. :o
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 11, 2014, 07:27:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 11, 2014, 04:35:07 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2014, 11:35:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 10, 2014, 09:46:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 10, 2014, 07:50:05 PM

If you are going to refuse to pay, then do the decent thing and go outside and turn off your water. Put up a sign outside your house saying you won't pay for the water, nor will you use any, and you will have the empathy of most and admiration of some.

Bring Dublin to a standstill for something that was signed off 3 years ago is completely idiotic.

But since we were forced into a bailout, there is no point in protesting. Look at Greece. It causes chaos locally, spooks badly needed investors and tourists, and the austerity doesn't go away. Joe Higgins & co will gain a seat or two and that is about it.

Is is worth it?

Forced into a bailout. And it was accepted without question.
Forced to hand over water rights. accept without question?

If you knew that a water authority were going to do a job properly then it might be accepted. But you know it's another jobs for the boys/profit making exercise. Why's Denis O'Brien involved. For the good of the country?

expected better from you muppet.

What?

We accepted a guarantee of €500n of bank debts without a murmur (except some of us here - check the Bailout thread). Sinn Féin even voted for it.
We accepted the Troika Bailout without a word. And bailout means we were force fed high interest loans which we have to pay back along with some painful medicine. Again not a word from our heroic demonstrators.

But now it seems the straw that breaks the camels back is poxy water charges. 10s of thousands of people manage to get off work (how exactly do they always manage to do that?) to disrupt the rest of us who actually work and pay for everything - to demand that we pay more.

If they don't want to pay for water, fine. But they should be cut off. If it is a natural resource they will have no bother finding it.

Better than that me arse.

The general population aren't economics graduates so they trusted the governments of the time to get the best deals possible.
Had it been clearer what the deal on the table was exactly you'd have seen similar protests. Sure even Brian Lenihan didn't have the foggiest what was happening, how do you expect the ordinary punter to have such an insight.

Advocating cutting water supplies to the poorer people in society? Again, thought better of you than that.

I said nothing of the sort.

I said cut off those that don't want to pay, not those that can't pay.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 08:28:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 05:22:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 04:33:07 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 02:45:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 10:51:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 10:44:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 05:59:51 PM

Really, there is no point in discussing whether there is the optimal security configuration on the strength of a crap newspaper article which didn't describe the purpose of the wifi. The point is that they were objecting to things normal in offices, it is perfectly usual for meeting rooms and the like to have wifi.
Not in civil service offices it's not!
But maybe there was a requirement.
Not the norm and not for employees.
I'd say GSOC might not want wifi in their meeting rooms any more!

This is also the point, people seem to expect the civil service to bring enormous great dusty ledgers to meetings instead of using their tablet like everyone else. Not every form of access has to be on wi-fi, of course.
or print outs and reports on paper like everyone else..

when I hear about or see civil service dudes bringing tablets and electronic devices to meetings I will let you know !!
I've seen it. At senior level - not admin / support staff, but at management level, yes.
south of the border?
ive not seen it. But it will happen. Just not yet. no need for it yet. wired network devices are more accurate and secure. Apart from presentation devices.
its not policy as of yet. Many senior people have devices but they are not 'work' devices even though work might have bought them.
No, in the north. It's moving with the times - it's not a "luxury" as you described it. I can't comment on the south, but don't see why it shouldn't happen, or why anyone should have difficulty with there being wifi in the civil service, as long as the proper controls are in place.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 04:33:07 PM
by the way - no guarantee sf will be as good or bad if they ever got into power down here.
different setup and not the mickey mouse effort of the six counties.
I was talking strictly in terms of the performance of the civil service, which is as relevant in the north as in the south. On other matters of government, yes, SF has yet to take charge of 'proper' powers, although some might say performance in managing the limited powers at Stormont doesn't bode well.
As long as the proper controls are in place?
What would those be?
No offense to you but a lot of things done in the northern 6 counties - esp in politics and public sector- are fur coat no knickers type of stunts.
Look at us look at us we've titanic quarter Ulster fry alstar skats - and not a fecking jot of revenue generation outside of selling whiskey and beads / sashes.... It's like the Wild West frontier of America in 1700's
The ultra modern public sector types might all be bedecked with tablet computers - but this belies the fact that it's all run from England !!
Waste of technology on those twits!

I'm sure sf will be at least as equally as useless as what's there now in Irish gov , as well as what's gone before.
Considering also spoiling my vote next time out. Unless we get a baldy leftie culchie dole scrounging druggie standing in this constituency instead of the whest- so I can effectively spoil my vote by giving it to him !
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 11, 2014, 09:01:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 11, 2014, 12:03:12 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 11, 2014, 11:29:42 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 11, 2014, 10:53:08 AM
Deiseach, who do you advocate we vote for in the next election if we're going to give FG and Lab a kicking ? FF SF Looney  left  100 Independents...

As of now, I'll be spoiling my ballot paper.

Ahhh for fcuk sake...... >:(

Spoiling your vote is probably the best way of expressing your dissatisfaction with the entire system, if 40% of the electorate went out and spoiled their vote instead of sitting on the arse complaining it'd send a pretty powerful message
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 09:12:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 08:28:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 05:22:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 04:33:07 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 02:45:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 10:51:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 10:44:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 05:59:51 PM

Really, there is no point in discussing whether there is the optimal security configuration on the strength of a crap newspaper article which didn't describe the purpose of the wifi. The point is that they were objecting to things normal in offices, it is perfectly usual for meeting rooms and the like to have wifi.
Not in civil service offices it's not!
But maybe there was a requirement.
Not the norm and not for employees.
I'd say GSOC might not want wifi in their meeting rooms any more!

This is also the point, people seem to expect the civil service to bring enormous great dusty ledgers to meetings instead of using their tablet like everyone else. Not every form of access has to be on wi-fi, of course.
or print outs and reports on paper like everyone else..

when I hear about or see civil service dudes bringing tablets and electronic devices to meetings I will let you know !!
I've seen it. At senior level - not admin / support staff, but at management level, yes.
south of the border?
ive not seen it. But it will happen. Just not yet. no need for it yet. wired network devices are more accurate and secure. Apart from presentation devices.
its not policy as of yet. Many senior people have devices but they are not 'work' devices even though work might have bought them.
No, in the north. It's moving with the times - it's not a "luxury" as you described it. I can't comment on the south, but don't see why it shouldn't happen, or why anyone should have difficulty with there being wifi in the civil service, as long as the proper controls are in place.
As long as the proper controls are in place?
What would those be?
Whatever controls are expected to mitigate the security risks you alluded to. I'm not an IT expert, but even without a wireless network there are security risks, hence firewalls etc.
Sure why bother with computers at all - let's just do it all with pen and paper and lock it away in a cabinet each night.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 08:28:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 05:22:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 04:33:07 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 02:45:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 10:51:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 10:44:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 05:59:51 PM

Really, there is no point in discussing whether there is the optimal security configuration on the strength of a crap newspaper article which didn't describe the purpose of the wifi. The point is that they were objecting to things normal in offices, it is perfectly usual for meeting rooms and the like to have wifi.
Not in civil service offices it's not!
But maybe there was a requirement.
Not the norm and not for employees.
I'd say GSOC might not want wifi in their meeting rooms any more!

This is also the point, people seem to expect the civil service to bring enormous great dusty ledgers to meetings instead of using their tablet like everyone else. Not every form of access has to be on wi-fi, of course.
or print outs and reports on paper like everyone else..

when I hear about or see civil service dudes bringing tablets and electronic devices to meetings I will let you know !!
I've seen it. At senior level - not admin / support staff, but at management level, yes.
south of the border?
ive not seen it. But it will happen. Just not yet. no need for it yet. wired network devices are more accurate and secure. Apart from presentation devices.
its not policy as of yet. Many senior people have devices but they are not 'work' devices even though work might have bought them.
No, in the north. It's moving with the times - it's not a "luxury" as you described it. I can't comment on the south, but don't see why it shouldn't happen, or why anyone should have difficulty with there being wifi in the civil service, as long as the proper controls are in place.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 04:33:07 PM
by the way - no guarantee sf will be as good or bad if they ever got into power down here.
different setup and not the mickey mouse effort of the six counties.
I was talking strictly in terms of the performance of the civil service, which is as relevant in the north as in the south. On other matters of government, yes, SF has yet to take charge of 'proper' powers, although some might say performance in managing the limited powers at Stormont doesn't bode well.
No offense to you but a lot of things done in the northern 6 counties - esp in politics and public sector- are fur coat no knickers type of stunts.
Look at us look at us we've titanic quarter Ulster fry alstar skats - and not a fecking jot of revenue generation outside of selling whiskey and beads / sashes.... It's like the Wild West frontier of America in 1700's
The ultra modern public sector types might all be bedecked with tablet computers - but this belies the fact that it's all run from England !!
Waste of technology on those twits!

I'm sure sf will be at least as equally as useless as what's there now in Irish gov , as well as what's gone before.
Considering also spoiling my vote next time out. Unless we get a baldy leftie culchie dole scrounging druggie standing in this constituency instead of the whest- so I can effectively spoil my vote by giving it to him !
Not sure why I should be offended.
The public sector in Northern Ireland employs around 220,000 people. And you might consider the likes of the Titanic project to be all "fur coat and no knickers", but the public sector in NI also runs health, education, pays benefits etc. - all those 'bread and butter' functions that exist in any country. It's irrelevant to this discussion that the economy isn't sophisticated, or that full government powers aren't in Belfast. My point is that SF is in power in NI, therefore consideration of how well they manage the public sector in the north is the best indication we have of how they might manage it in the south.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 09:15:45 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 11, 2014, 09:01:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 11, 2014, 12:03:12 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 11, 2014, 11:29:42 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 11, 2014, 10:53:08 AM
Deiseach, who do you advocate we vote for in the next election if we're going to give FG and Lab a kicking ? FF SF Looney  left  100 Independents...

As of now, I'll be spoiling my ballot paper.

Ahhh for fcuk sake...... >:(

Spoiling your vote is probably the best way of expressing your dissatisfaction with the entire system, if 40% of the electorate went out and spoiled their vote instead of sitting on the arse complaining it'd send a pretty powerful message
Wouldn't change anything though, would it? You'd still have the same people in power.
Also, if voting was mandatory, I doubt the 40% who don't vote now would all spoil their vote - i'd expect a good number of them to vote for the existing parties / candidates. Many people don't vote because they couldn't be bothered, or they don't think their vote will count, given the strength of parties  / candidates in their constituency.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 11, 2014, 10:16:22 PM
Eveb if 90% spoiled their votes the electionwould be decided by the other 10%.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 11, 2014, 10:45:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 11, 2014, 10:16:22 PM
Eveb if 90% spoiled their votes the electionwould be decided by the other 10%.

Jesus, you don't miss much  :o

Obviously but the big outcome of such a result would be that 90% of people didn't want to vote for ANY of the current parties.

It would be impossible to write even a 10% spoiled vote result off as laziness. New parties would be formed on both right and left and the existing parties would be forced to change.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 11:01:35 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 09:12:56 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 08:28:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 05:22:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 04:33:07 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 02:45:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 10:51:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 10:44:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 05:59:51 PM

Really, there is no point in discussing whether there is the optimal security configuration on the strength of a crap newspaper article which didn't describe the purpose of the wifi. The point is that they were objecting to things normal in offices, it is perfectly usual for meeting rooms and the like to have wifi.
Not in civil service offices it's not!
But maybe there was a requirement.
Not the norm and not for employees.
I'd say GSOC might not want wifi in their meeting rooms any more!

This is also the point, people seem to expect the civil service to bring enormous great dusty ledgers to meetings instead of using their tablet like everyone else. Not every form of access has to be on wi-fi, of course.
or print outs and reports on paper like everyone else..

when I hear about or see civil service dudes bringing tablets and electronic devices to meetings I will let you know !!
I've seen it. At senior level - not admin / support staff, but at management level, yes.
south of the border?
ive not seen it. But it will happen. Just not yet. no need for it yet. wired network devices are more accurate and secure. Apart from presentation devices.
its not policy as of yet. Many senior people have devices but they are not 'work' devices even though work might have bought them.
No, in the north. It's moving with the times - it's not a "luxury" as you described it. I can't comment on the south, but don't see why it shouldn't happen, or why anyone should have difficulty with there being wifi in the civil service, as long as the proper controls are in place.
As long as the proper controls are in place?
What would those be?
Whatever controls are expected to mitigate the security risks you alluded to. I'm not an IT expert, but even without a wireless network there are security risks, hence firewalls etc.
Sure why bother with computers at all - let's just do it all with pen and paper and lock it away in a cabinet each night.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 08:28:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 05:22:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 04:33:07 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 02:45:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 10:51:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 10, 2014, 10:44:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 05:59:51 PM

Really, there is no point in discussing whether there is the optimal security configuration on the strength of a crap newspaper article which didn't describe the purpose of the wifi. The point is that they were objecting to things normal in offices, it is perfectly usual for meeting rooms and the like to have wifi.
Not in civil service offices it's not!
But maybe there was a requirement.
Not the norm and not for employees.
I'd say GSOC might not want wifi in their meeting rooms any more!

This is also the point, people seem to expect the civil service to bring enormous great dusty ledgers to meetings instead of using their tablet like everyone else. Not every form of access has to be on wi-fi, of course.
or print outs and reports on paper like everyone else..

when I hear about or see civil service dudes bringing tablets and electronic devices to meetings I will let you know !!
I've seen it. At senior level - not admin / support staff, but at management level, yes.
south of the border?
ive not seen it. But it will happen. Just not yet. no need for it yet. wired network devices are more accurate and secure. Apart from presentation devices.
its not policy as of yet. Many senior people have devices but they are not 'work' devices even though work might have bought them.
No, in the north. It's moving with the times - it's not a "luxury" as you described it. I can't comment on the south, but don't see why it shouldn't happen, or why anyone should have difficulty with there being wifi in the civil service, as long as the proper controls are in place.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 11, 2014, 04:33:07 PM
by the way - no guarantee sf will be as good or bad if they ever got into power down here.
different setup and not the mickey mouse effort of the six counties.
I was talking strictly in terms of the performance of the civil service, which is as relevant in the north as in the south. On other matters of government, yes, SF has yet to take charge of 'proper' powers, although some might say performance in managing the limited powers at Stormont doesn't bode well.
No offense to you but a lot of things done in the northern 6 counties - esp in politics and public sector- are fur coat no knickers type of stunts.
Look at us look at us we've titanic quarter Ulster fry alstar skats - and not a fecking jot of revenue generation outside of selling whiskey and beads / sashes.... It's like the Wild West frontier of America in 1700's
The ultra modern public sector types might all be bedecked with tablet computers - but this belies the fact that it's all run from England !!
Waste of technology on those twits!

I'm sure sf will be at least as equally as useless as what's there now in Irish gov , as well as what's gone before.
Considering also spoiling my vote next time out. Unless we get a baldy leftie culchie dole scrounging druggie standing in this constituency instead of the whest- so I can effectively spoil my vote by giving it to him !
Not sure why I should be offended.
The public sector in Northern Ireland employs around 220,000 people. And you might consider the likes of the Titanic project to be all "fur coat and no knickers", but the public sector in NI also runs health, education, pays benefits etc. - all those 'bread and butter' functions that exist in any country. It's irrelevant to this discussion that the economy isn't sophisticated, or that full government powers aren't in Belfast. My point is that SF is in power in NI, therefore consideration of how well they manage the public sector in the north is the best indication we have of how they might manage it in the south.
Ok so you are no IT expert - that usually doesn't stop you!!
;)
Apart from presentations or census/info gathering on sites, wifi and devices are NOT the administrative tools of professional business!
Absolutely a luxury/waste of money!

There is feck all power in the north.
As the financial statement says - past performance is no guarantee of future performance !
Different setups.
But as I said I expect sf to be as inept as everyone else - as the politicians are the front for a inept mismanaging public sector that actually 'runs' the show.
Obv both our opinions though.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 11:04:25 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 11, 2014, 10:45:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 11, 2014, 10:16:22 PM
Eveb if 90% spoiled their votes the electionwould be decided by the other 10%.

Jesus, you don't miss much  :o

Obviously but the big outcome of such a result would be that 90% of people didn't want to vote for ANY of the current parties.

It would be impossible to write even a 10% spoiled vote result off as laziness. New parties would be formed on both right and left and the existing parties would be forced to change.
Is that just your assumption? Had it ever actually happened anywhere, like in those countries where voting is mandatory?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 11, 2014, 11:34:20 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 11, 2014, 11:04:25 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 11, 2014, 10:45:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 11, 2014, 10:16:22 PM
Eveb if 90% spoiled their votes the electionwould be decided by the other 10%.

Jesus, you don't miss much  :o

Obviously but the big outcome of such a result would be that 90% of people didn't want to vote for ANY of the current parties.

It would be impossible to write even a 10% spoiled vote result off as laziness. New parties would be formed on both right and left and the existing parties would be forced to change.
Is that just your assumption? Had it ever actually happened anywhere, like in those countries where voting is mandatory?

Yes, that's just my assumption. Do you not think something like that would prompt change?

You hear every second person going on about "them all being the same", etc - mass spoiling of votes would send a message that people WANT to vote but have nobody to vote for.

In reality though I think at least half of these people have no idea what parties stand for, what parties have delivered / reneged on and make no effort to educate themselves preferring instead to simply repeat what they read in the Indo or hear on Joe Duffy
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 12, 2014, 12:07:50 AM
Main thing when assessing a politician 's performance is - what did he do for the constituency. Policies and all that are all  me eye.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 12, 2014, 02:20:12 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 11, 2014, 09:04:48 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 10, 2014, 11:01:16 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 10, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Strangely, I don't recall massive protests when FF were discovered to have robbed us, ruined us and destroyed our childrens' futures.  But we'll all turn out in droves when FG asks us to pay for what we use.  What a country, I'm so proud.
Bejaysus BB, I think you are a bit OTT here.
There were no massive protests when FF were last in government because nobody was expecting the economy to collapse and the speed at which it began to go pear-shaped, threw everyone into confusion.
But there was no mistaking the  electorate's anger when FF lost about two thirds of its seats at the last GE. That was the mother of all "massive protests" without a doubt.
Peoples' expectations were high when the present Coalition came to power. I think everyone knew there would be tough times ahead but very few expected things to be as bad as they are now. If Enda, Eamon and their confidants knew, they took great care to hide the fact.
When it comes to cronyism, jobs for the boys (and girls,) broken promises and the likes all we are getting is a dose of Fianna Fail lite. A little bit better than FF when we were led to expect the highest of standards in public life is just not good enough.
People aren't turning out in droves in this kind of weather for the fun of it.There's an element of principled objection okay but economic desperation is the main reason for the present widespread discontent.
Sure, we're some country okay but it wasn't the honest citizens who took to the streets today who made it so.

This water-charges protesting nonsense annoys me a lot - it's a complete red herring.  If the 'brains' behind these protests thought they'd change anything it wouldn't be happening. 

I don't think anyone who had been watching the collapse had high expectations of this Govt - how could they have?  The incumbent's hands were tied, their budget income was decimated and they were expected to 'fix' what FF had done, with feck all resources.  And guess what - take a look around you, things are starting to move slowly again, the debt burden is starting to lift again, and those lucky enough to have jobs can see a few extra quid in their pockets.  The unemployment figures are improving slowly, and the builders are starting to build again.  And SF/FF are running scared and stirring shite; what's new?

Sure Irish Water is a mess - sure there are a bunch of incompetent gobshites appointed to do an important job, that will take longer to do than it should.  But what is happening is making a currently amateur operation undertakne by local authorities into a professional outfit, just like the rest of the civilised world.  What we should be asking ourselves is why it has taken so long to do (there's a two-letter answer to that question).  Let me assure you, in 20 years time we'll be glad we did it.
The water tax controversy  may be nonsense to you but it's a bread and butter issue for the vast majority of people. Your red herring is a red rag to the bull for them.  How many of the people from all parts of the country who turned out in such numbers yesterday were there because they are literally unable to pay yet another levy? 

I believe a great majority are and it has nothing to do with FG being in power. For those people contractual obligations to repay the bailout, a sense of moral obligation to do what one is told and all that shite has no meaning or relevance whatever.   

The number of children who regularly shoplift has increased dramatically in recent times. That's what I've been told by former teacher colleagues.

How do you think they know this?

Because they see the result of economic deprivation before them every school day. 

Kids are robbing bread, chocolate bars and anything else they can eat.  Okay, the area I taught in can be classed as a socially deprived area but FInglas isn't the only place where many kids exist in a state of perpetual hunger. I suggest you should have a chat with some of your local supermarket owners or their workers and I bet you'll find that what I am saying is true.

I agree that Irish Water is being run by a shower of useless gobshites but who appointed them in the first place? Who but a bunch of even bigger gobshites of course. The board of Irish Water was appointed by the government and the buck stops there.

Sure the Irish economy began to pick up in the second part of this year but I can't recall a single government spokesperson predicting in advance that this would happen, can you?

They knew as little about it as the rest of us. It's no coincidence that the US economy began to buck up at the same time.

I'd love think that Coalition policies played a major part in stopping the recession but, going by the way in which it handled the water tax issue, I'm damn sure it didn't. 

I'd love to see the present administration stay in power as there is no credible alternative  but the fact that it's running scared of Sinn Fein tells its own tale.   

If they can't settle the water tax controversy in the very near future, their days will be well and truly numbered.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on December 12, 2014, 03:45:54 AM
Lar wrote:

"I'd love think that Coalition policies played a major part in stopping the recession but, going by the way in which it handled the water tax issue, I'm damn sure it didn't. "

Well that's an Irish trait, blaming them for what goes wrong and giving them no credit for what goes right. I don't think even Jesus Christ would have come out of Irish Water unscathed and he was a man who could turn it into wine. There's a lot who are not on breadline and simply believe it's a god given right to have free water. Mind you you won't see them drinking the stuff the Gods piss with abandon from the sky or the polluted stuff that fills our rivers and lakes, that we as irish people are solely responsible for (not Europe, not the Brits). Then you have those that believe it should always be state run, as if that is somehow better. CIE anyone? Then there's those who think it magically comes from taps for free, even though Dublin will soon have a huge shortage and needs to drain Lough Ree abd Lougn Derg and it's only a matter of time before what happened in Galway and Roscommon happens all over the country. Then we'll have a water system that is not only 40% wasted in leaks but littered with disease carrying bacteria. And the people will shout why didn't we fix this problem. And the answer will be that as a race of people we are a right shower of thickos who have no problem buying The Sun and The Mirror or heading off to NYC to fill the auld suitcase  and paying to watch our English soccer teams on Sky to Mr Murdoch but God forbid we cough up to invest in the single most important resource in our country.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 08:58:49 AM
Let's get one thing clear. No one is arguing for 'free water'. The argument is for 'free water at the point of use', paid for through progressive taxation. And if we're going to look at other countries in the 'civilised world', there are plenty of examples of services being free at the point of use that we have to pay through the nose for in Ireland. For a country that is supposedly laden with scroungers who take to the street at the drop of a hat, there hasn't been much in the way of objection to having to pay €60 for a trip to the GP or A&E. Meanwhile in Britain, where in living memory they trashed central London over a charge to pay for local authority services, all such visits are free. Stories of abuse of such a system are legion - my paramedic  brother-in-law frequently regales me with tales of folk who use the ambulance as a free bus service - but that doesn't mean there is any desire to get shot of the NHS. Yet when people in Ireland object to a regressive tax on a public good, we're the laughing stock of Europe™. I really hoped we had moved past that kind of attack when Gaybore got over our collective lack of sympathy at Russell Murphy taking all his money (it seems Michael O'Leary has replaced Feargal Quinn as the man who would serve as a mild but equitable despot; I don't know if that is progress) but it was clearly too much to hope for.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 09:43:15 AM
Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 08:58:49 AM
Let's get one thing clear. No one is arguing for 'free water'. The argument is for 'free water at the point of use', paid for through progressive taxation. And if we're going to look at other countries in the 'civilised world', there are plenty of examples of services being free at the point of use that we have to pay through the nose for in Ireland. For a country that is supposedly laden with scroungers who take to the street at the drop of a hat, there hasn't been much in the way of objection to having to pay €60 for a trip to the GP or A&E. Meanwhile in Britain, where in living memory they trashed central London over a charge to pay for local authority services, all such visits are free. Stories of abuse of such a system are legion - my paramedic  brother-in-law frequently regales me with tales of folk who use the ambulance as a free bus service - but that doesn't mean there is any desire to get shot of the NHS. Yet when people in Ireland object to a regressive tax on a public good, we're the laughing stock of Europe™. I really hoped we had moved past that kind of attack when Gaybore got over our collective lack of sympathy at Russell Murphy taking all his money (it seems Michael O'Leary has replaced Feargal Quinn as the man who would serve as a mild but equitable despot; I don't know if that is progress) but it was clearly too much to hope for.
Does progressive taxation just mean loading the cost of water onto income tax? Workers just take on the burden? Is there another solution i'm missing?

I agree in principle for water charging (if done properly) for a number of reasons - you pay on the basis of what you use (so it promotes conservation), income is ring-fenced for investment in water (and waste), the tax base is broadened (a specific requirement for Ireland, post-boom).

I also agree that its implementation was poorly handled. And it might have been better if its introduction had been offset by a reduction in another tax (VAT maybe), to reflect that the public already contribute to the cost of water. But that would have ignored the fact that there remains a deficit, so it would have been little more than window-dressing - another tax/charge would have had to be raised elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 09:43:15 AM
Does progressive taxation just mean loading the cost of water onto income tax? Workers just take on the burden? Is there another solution i'm missing?

Yes. Whatever way you cut it, water charges are a tax. The reason I use the word 'progressive' is because charges are regressive. The poorer you are, the greater a proportion of your income you are going to have to set aside to pay for water.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 10:01:01 AM
Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 09:43:15 AM
Does progressive taxation just mean loading the cost of water onto income tax? Workers just take on the burden? Is there another solution i'm missing?

Yes. Whatever way you cut it, water charges are a tax. The reason I use the word 'progressive' is because charges are regressive. The poorer you are, the greater a proportion of your income you are going to have to set aside to pay for water.
You can't just keep loading all the burden on workers. It's not sustainable.
And in the case of water charges / tax (call it what you will), central funding removes the drivers for conservation, broadened tax base and ring-fenced funding. By all means put some measures in place to help the less well off pay the charge and make it less regressive, but to abandon it is not the answer.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 10:05:01 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 10:01:01 AM
You can't just keep loading all the burden on workers. It's not sustainable.

Proof by assertion.

Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 10:01:01 AMAnd in the case of water charges / tax (call it what you will), central funding removes the drivers for conservation, broadened tax base and ring-fenced funding. By all means put some measures in place to help the less well off pay the charge and make it less regressive, but to abandon it is not the answer.

Your solution is to create a bureaucracy designed to administer the subsidies and poverty traps for those who are earning just enough to pay the charge.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 10:28:36 AM
Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 10:05:01 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 10:01:01 AM
You can't just keep loading all the burden on workers. It's not sustainable.

Proof by assertion.
So what, we just bridge the rest of the deficit by increasing income tax rates? Why not scrap VAT and add that to income tax as well?
It has to pay for people to work.

Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 10:05:01 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 10:01:01 AMAnd in the case of water charges / tax (call it what you will), central funding removes the drivers for conservation, broadened tax base and ring-fenced funding. By all means put some measures in place to help the less well off pay the charge and make it less regressive, but to abandon it is not the answer.
Your solution is to create a bureaucracy designed to administer the subsidies and poverty traps for those who are earning just enough to pay the charge.
I don't have a perfect solution, my point is that everyone should make a contribution and that one section of society shouldn't carry all the burden. And it need not necessarily be a bureaucracy - just a small increase in the rate of certain benefits, an uplift on the tax-free threshold... greater minds than me could identify the most appropriate adjustments.
Why should everyone people pay for their electricity? Should that not just be paid for centrally and added to income tax?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 10:54:02 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 10:28:36 AM
So what, we just bridge the rest of the deficit by increasing income tax rates? Why not scrap VAT and add that to income tax as well?
It has to pay for people to work.

I never suggested we should 'bridge the rest of the deficit by increasing incomes tax rates' or anything like it. I'm saying that we should pay for improvements to public services by increasing tax rates at the top. There is little evidence that this proves a disincentive to work and plenty that it doesn't, e.g. just about every country on the continent.

Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 10:28:36 AM
I don't have a perfect solution, my point is that everyone should make a contribution and that one section of society shouldn't carry all the burden. And it need not necessarily be a bureaucracy - just a small increase in the rate of certain benefits, an uplift on the tax-free threshold... greater minds than me could identify the most appropriate adjustments.
Why should everyone people pay for their electricity? Should that not just be paid for centrally and added to income tax?

Neither of us is proposing a perfect solution, but politics is the art of the possible. It probably wouldn't take that large a bureaucracy, but there would need to be one and there definitely would be poverty traps. I think electricity is a different type of public good to water. The waste that takes happens with electricity is almost entirely a function of the end user, in contrast to water where the waste comes in leaks in the infrastructure so punishing the end user is grossly unfair. Besides, as with health care we already have an infrastructure in place that works, after a fashion, and changing it would involve massive upheaval so we leave well enough alone. We might treat electricity differently if we were starting from first principles. I think it is perfectly reasonable to not go down the road of creating a market for water with all its opportunities for the kind of financial chicanery so beloved of the likes of the Troika that brought us all to the brink of ruin - and for many, pushed us past it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 11:09:03 AM
Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 10:54:02 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 10:28:36 AM
So what, we just bridge the rest of the deficit by increasing income tax rates? Why not scrap VAT and add that to income tax as well?
It has to pay for people to work.

I never suggested we should 'bridge the rest of the deficit by increasing incomes tax rates' or anything like it. I'm saying that we should pay for improvements to public services by increasing tax rates at the top. There is little evidence that this proves a disincentive to work and plenty that it doesn't, e.g. just about every country on the continent.
Just about every other country on the continent charges for water.

Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 10:54:02 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 10:28:36 AM
I don't have a perfect solution, my point is that everyone should make a contribution and that one section of society shouldn't carry all the burden. And it need not necessarily be a bureaucracy - just a small increase in the rate of certain benefits, an uplift on the tax-free threshold... greater minds than me could identify the most appropriate adjustments.
Why should everyone people pay for their electricity? Should that not just be paid for centrally and added to income tax?

Neither of us is proposing a perfect solution, but politics is the art of the possible. It probably wouldn't take that large a bureaucracy, but there would need to be one and there definitely would be poverty traps. I think electricity is a different type of public good to water. The waste that takes happens with electricity is almost entirely a function of the end user, in contrast to water where the waste comes in leaks in the infrastructure so punishing the end user is grossly unfair. Besides, as with health care we already have an infrastructure in place that works, after a fashion, and changing it would involve massive upheaval so we leave well enough alone. We might treat electricity differently if we were starting from first principles. I think it is perfectly reasonable to not go down the road of creating a market for water with all its opportunities for the kind of financial chicanery so beloved of the likes of the Troika that brought us all to the brink of ruin - and for many, pushed us past it.
I don't believe there's a need for any more bureaucracy if it's done by tweaking existing benefits and tax bands.

Water users will only pay for leaks on their property - i.e. after the water meter, so no different to electricity in that respect.

And the infrastructure in place doesn't work, and without a proper system to fund it, it will increasingly fail.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 12, 2014, 11:20:41 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 12, 2014, 02:20:12 AM
.  How many of the people from all parts of the country who turned out in such numbers yesterday were there because they are literally unable to pay yet another levy? 

So they could find maybe €50 on one day to go to Dublin but they can't find €3 a week to pay a water charge?
Hmmmmmmmm......
I wonder how many were actuually ordinary people  against the specific water charge? As opposed to Political people (SF/loony left/Ming populists etc), the pay for nothing brigade, people generally disgruntled with the Government, people who after 6 years have become "Austerity weary" and so on.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 11:32:26 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 11:09:03 AM
Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 10:54:02 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 10:28:36 AM
So what, we just bridge the rest of the deficit by increasing income tax rates? Why not scrap VAT and add that to income tax as well?
It has to pay for people to work.

I never suggested we should 'bridge the rest of the deficit by increasing incomes tax rates' or anything like it. I'm saying that we should pay for improvements to public services by increasing tax rates at the top. There is little evidence that this proves a disincentive to work and plenty that it doesn't, e.g. just about every country on the continent.
Just about every other country on the continent charges for water.

So you want to follow them when it comes to water charges but ignore the evidence from them that high tax rates are not a disincentive to work?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2014, 11:20:41 AM
Hmmmmmmmm......
I wonder how many were actuually ordinary people  against the specific water charge? As opposed to Political people (SF/loony left/Ming populists etc), the pay for nothing brigade, people generally disgruntled with the Government, people who after 6 years have become "Austerity weary" and so on.

The government seem confident that the turn out represented a hard core Trot element (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/water-protest-coalition-feels-the-worst-has-passed-1.2032947). I think they might be right, although getting people to pay is still going to be a fraught business.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 11:41:19 AM
Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 11:32:26 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 11:09:03 AM
Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 10:54:02 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 10:28:36 AM
So what, we just bridge the rest of the deficit by increasing income tax rates? Why not scrap VAT and add that to income tax as well?
It has to pay for people to work.

I never suggested we should 'bridge the rest of the deficit by increasing incomes tax rates' or anything like it. I'm saying that we should pay for improvements to public services by increasing tax rates at the top. There is little evidence that this proves a disincentive to work and plenty that it doesn't, e.g. just about every country on the continent.
Just about every other country on the continent charges for water.

So you want to follow them when it comes to water charges but ignore the evidence from them that high tax rates are not a disincentive to work?
No, I don't want to ignore the evidence (i'd be interested in seeing the examples) - I accept your point. On water specifically however, I maintain the need for Ireland to broaden its tax base, to incentivise conservation of water, to have a ring-fenced funding etc.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 11:44:39 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 11:41:19 AM
No, I don't want to ignore the evidence (i'd be interested in seeing the examples) - I accept your point. On water specifically however, I maintain the need for Ireland to broaden its tax base, to incentivise conservation of water, to have a ring-fenced funding etc.

Okay. That's a fair viewpoint and we can agree to differ.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Denn Forever on December 12, 2014, 12:02:51 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 11, 2014, 10:00:28 AM
Quote from: Billys Boots on December 11, 2014, 09:58:09 AM
Fine, we'll agree to disagree so.

You're no fun ;)

Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 11:44:39 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 11:41:19 AM
No, I don't want to ignore the evidence (i'd be interested in seeing the examples) - I accept your point. On water specifically however, I maintain the need for Ireland to broaden its tax base, to incentivise conservation of water, to have a ring-fenced funding etc.

Okay. That's a fair viewpoint and we can agree to differ.

So who's right?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 12:10:28 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on December 12, 2014, 12:02:51 PM
So who's right?

Genghis Khan.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 12:22:02 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2014, 11:20:41 AM
Hmmmmmmmm......
I wonder how many were actuually ordinary people  against the specific water charge? As opposed to Political people (SF/loony left/Ming populists etc), the pay for nothing brigade, people generally disgruntled with the Government, people who after 6 years have become "Austerity weary" and so on.

The government seem confident that the turn out represented a hard core Trot element (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/water-protest-coalition-feels-the-worst-has-passed-1.2032947). I think they might be right, although getting people to pay is still going to be a fraught business.
Yep, the number of SF flags and the reported reception for Gerry Adams' speech was probably a bit of an own-goal in that respect.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 12:44:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 12:22:02 PM
Yep, the number of SF flags and the reported reception for Gerry Adams' speech was probably a bit of an own-goal in that respect.

The applause continued for minutes without stopping and everyone was growing weary, but who would dare to be the first to stop clapping? As the labored applause wore on an old man collapsed. Finally the mayor allowed his arms to drop and the noise died. The next evening the mayor was sentenced to the gulag, and no charges were ever spoken against him. As he stepped into the train, a party official whispered into his ear, "Never be the first one to stop clapping."
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 12:50:00 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 12:44:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 12:22:02 PM
Yep, the number of SF flags and the reported reception for Gerry Adams' speech was probably a bit of an own-goal in that respect.

The applause continued for minutes without stopping and everyone was growing weary, but who would dare to be the first to stop clapping? As the labored applause wore on an old man collapsed. Finally the mayor allowed his arms to drop and the noise died. The next evening the mayor was sentenced to the gulag, and no charges were ever spoken against him. As he stepped into the train, a party official whispered into his ear, "Never be the first one to stop clapping."
;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 12, 2014, 03:06:15 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 12:44:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 12:22:02 PM
Yep, the number of SF flags and the reported reception for Gerry Adams' speech was probably a bit of an own-goal in that respect.

The applause continued for minutes without stopping and everyone was growing weary, but who would dare to be the first to stop clapping? As the labored applause wore on an old man collapsed. Finally the mayor allowed his arms to drop and the noise died. The next evening the mayor was sentenced to the gulag, and no charges were ever spoken against him. As he stepped into the train, a party official whispered into his ear, "Never be the first one to stop clapping."

;D ;D ;D
Like the old newsreels of Nazi Germany seeing who could keep the arm raised the longest and highest when AH was around.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 12, 2014, 03:10:26 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 09:43:15 AM
Does progressive taxation just mean loading the cost of water onto income tax? Workers just take on the burden? Is there another solution i'm missing?

Yes. Whatever way you cut it, water charges are a tax. The reason I use the word 'progressive' is because charges are regressive. The poorer you are, the greater a proportion of your income you are going to have to set aside to pay for water.

This ideology seems to be accepted as an unquestionable truth, i.e. there are those that can be tapped to pay for everything and those who should never pay for anything. Should we pay for everything as a proportion of our salaries? Or should it only things associated with those that we vote for and their self-serving promises, such as Health, Education, Transportation etc. There is strong evidence that too many benefits discourage many of the unemployed from seeking work.

The reality is that the Government can't stop the water charges. It is a deal done with the Troika and have a look at Greece to see what happens when you try to renege on such deals. With that in mind Higgins & Ogle, the other Trots and co will ramp up the protests calling for the scrapping of the charges knowing full well that it can't be done. This government has already shown a lack of a spine and this could bring forward an election, which is all the organisers want. Then the protests will end. What odds Ogle announces he is running then.

I believe SF are there only because they don't want to be outflanked on the left and their knee-jerk reaction is to run on to the streets. I await their first 100 days in Government (which I believe will happen) after the next election with great interest as they will then have to explain to their supporters that they can't scrap the water charges. But at least they will have extra (ministerial?) pensions earned.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 03:24:55 PM
Water charges AND property tax they'll reverse.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 12, 2014, 04:50:36 PM
And will increase public spending.
Magic lads altogether.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 12, 2014, 05:10:36 PM
Quote from: weareros on December 12, 2014, 03:45:54 AM
Lar wrote:

"I'd love think that Coalition policies played a major part in stopping the recession but, going by the way in which it handled the water tax issue, I'm damn sure it didn't. "

Well that's an Irish trait, blaming them for what goes wrong and giving them no credit for what goes right. I don't think even Jesus Christ would have come out of Irish Water unscathed and he was a man who could turn it into wine. There's a lot who are not on breadline and simply believe it's a god given right to have free water. Mind you you won't see them drinking the stuff the Gods piss with abandon from the sky or the polluted stuff that fills our rivers and lakes, that we as irish people are solely responsible for (not Europe, not the Brits). Then you have those that believe it should always be state run, as if that is somehow better. CIE anyone? Then there's those who think it magically comes from taps for free, even though Dublin will soon have a huge shortage and needs to drain Lough Ree abd Lougn Derg and it's only a matter of time before what happened in Galway and Roscommon happens all over the country. Then we'll have a water system that is not only 40% wasted in leaks but littered with disease carrying bacteria. And the people will shout why didn't we fix this problem. And the answer will be that as a race of people we are a right shower of thickos who have no problem buying The Sun and The Mirror or heading off to NYC to fill the auld suitcase  and paying to watch our English soccer teams on Sky to Mr Murdoch but God forbid we cough up to invest in the single most important resource in our country.
Arrah, g'wan outa that!   ;D

It's a mighty fine rant alright but most of it has little or nothing to do with anything I wrote. Can anyone recall  a single statement from any govt. source, predicting that we'd have a turnaround in our economy before it actually came to pass? 

More to the point, can you? 

No, I don't think that pointing out the obvious is an Irish trait, quite the opposite in fact. I am also prepared to give the government proper credit wherever and whenever it's due. Trouble is I have found sweet FA to date to suggest that they are getting on top of our economic problems.   

Can you point out an example of anything they did that I'm overlooking and I'll gladly retract that statement.   

For the record, I said in an earlier post on this thread that I am in favour of a water tax. It's the least odious of all the levies that have been brought in since the economy went belly up. I also agree wholeheartedly that there are plenty of people who are not on the breadline who could afford to pay a fair an equitable levy but refuse to do so. 

 

But what about the countless thousands who are on the breadline, those who haven't a pot to piss in? 

Do you accept that there are multitudes of children who arrive in school every day without having had a decent breakfast or that many teachers either buy or make up sandwiches out of sheer pity and concern? Don't take my word for it, there's plenty of evidence for those who are prepared to look around them. Ask any teacher you know if kids arrive in their classroom who are ravenous with hunger or if they have heard of this happening in any other classroom or school. I'll leave the answer to you because I'm pretty confident they will back up what I am saying to you. 

Sure, we can do without another CIE but we're landed with the mother of all quangoes instead. 

Lemme see now.... 

First Irish Water was set up and a Board was appointed. So far, so good. 

Before a tap was turned on, the  board announced details of their proposed bonuses. WE were also told that if we used less water, the tariffs would be increased. They also demanded our PPS details and, if my memory is correct the original plan was to sell off Irish Water to the private sector after a few years. 

Oh and a few thousand former Bord Gais employees were going to landed onto the payroll even though there was no work for the. But, since they were approaching retirement age and all would be gone within 6 or 7 years, we shouldn't be unduly bothered about it. 

Then the all important issue of tariffs was dealt with. Those figures weren't arrived at after a detailed study of our actual requirements and without taking peoples' ability to pay into consideration. Instead, we were treated to the spectacle of a political dogfight  in the lead up to the local election, as each party  sought save its political skin.   

After a serious mauling in the polls, followed shortly after by an unprecedented  display of protest when over 150,00 took to the streets to show their opposition to the  proposed charges, we had a complete back down by our supposed leaders. Enda then chipped in his tuppence worth by declaring his opposition to the payment of bonuses.   

John Tierney then took centre stage when he went ahead anyway and announced his proposed bonus system.  According to him, bonuses would be paid to personnel whose work was sub-standard. 

Good God, you wouldn't get the likes of this in the Beano. I'd settle for another CIE if I had to make the choice. 

BTW, one of my nieces told mew that under the original proposed tariffs, she'd would have had to come up with a total of €548 to pay the household charges. Now the demand is down to €160 and if she gets the promised €100 sweetener, she will get away with just €60. 

So €548 was demanded and €60 will be accepted. Someone got the figures seriously wrong somewhere along the line. It's a case of the monkeys being in complete control of the zoo.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 12, 2014, 05:15:27 PM
Or more likely, the money will simply have to come from somewhere else Lar.

The money IW are raising through charges isn't going to cover the cost of providing water, treating sewerage and upgrading the network
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 12, 2014, 05:16:40 PM
I think it's more a case that a government subsidy to Irish Water will make up the difference for the initial years when the charge is capped. With the revised charges, Irish Water won't be self funding in these years. That's my understanding anyway.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 12, 2014, 08:14:19 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 12, 2014, 05:10:36 PM
Quote from: weareros on December 12, 2014, 03:45:54 AM
Lar wrote:

"I'd love think that Coalition policies played a major part in stopping the recession but, going by the way in which it handled the water tax issue, I'm damn sure it didn't. "

Well that's an Irish trait, blaming them for what goes wrong and giving them no credit for what goes right. I don't think even Jesus Christ would have come out of Irish Water unscathed and he was a man who could turn it into wine. There's a lot who are not on breadline and simply believe it's a god given right to have free water. Mind you you won't see them drinking the stuff the Gods piss with abandon from the sky or the polluted stuff that fills our rivers and lakes, that we as irish people are solely responsible for (not Europe, not the Brits). Then you have those that believe it should always be state run, as if that is somehow better. CIE anyone? Then there's those who think it magically comes from taps for free, even though Dublin will soon have a huge shortage and needs to drain Lough Ree abd Lougn Derg and it's only a matter of time before what happened in Galway and Roscommon happens all over the country. Then we'll have a water system that is not only 40% wasted in leaks but littered with disease carrying bacteria. And the people will shout why didn't we fix this problem. And the answer will be that as a race of people we are a right shower of thickos who have no problem buying The Sun and The Mirror or heading off to NYC to fill the auld suitcase  and paying to watch our English soccer teams on Sky to Mr Murdoch but God forbid we cough up to invest in the single most important resource in our country.
Arrah, g'wan outa that!   ;D

It's a mighty fine rant alright but most of it has little or nothing to do with anything I wrote. Can anyone recall  a single statement from any govt. source, predicting that we'd have a turnaround in our economy before it actually came to pass? 

More to the point, can you? 

No, I don't think that pointing out the obvious is an Irish trait, quite the opposite in fact. I am also prepared to give the government proper credit wherever and whenever it's due. Trouble is I have found sweet FA to date to suggest that they are getting on top of our economic problems.   

Can you point out an example of anything they did that I'm overlooking and I'll gladly retract that statement.   

For the record, I said in an earlier post on this thread that I am in favour of a water tax. It's the least odious of all the levies that have been brought in since the economy went belly up. I also agree wholeheartedly that there are plenty of people who are not on the breadline who could afford to pay a fair an equitable levy but refuse to do so. 

 

But what about the countless thousands who are on the breadline, those who haven't a pot to piss in? 

Do you accept that there are multitudes of children who arrive in school every day without having had a decent breakfast or that many teachers either buy or make up sandwiches out of sheer pity and concern? Don't take my word for it, there's plenty of evidence for those who are prepared to look around them. Ask any teacher you know if kids arrive in their classroom who are ravenous with hunger or if they have heard of this happening in any other classroom or school. I'll leave the answer to you because I'm pretty confident they will back up what I am saying to you. 

Sure, we can do without another CIE but we're landed with the mother of all quangoes instead. 

Lemme see now.... 

First Irish Water was set up and a Board was appointed. So far, so good. 

Before a tap was turned on, the  board announced details of their proposed bonuses. WE were also told that if we used less water, the tariffs would be increased. They also demanded our PPS details and, if my memory is correct the original plan was to sell off Irish Water to the private sector after a few years. 

Oh and a few thousand former Bord Gais employees were going to landed onto the payroll even though there was no work for the. But, since they were approaching retirement age and all would be gone within 6 or 7 years, we shouldn't be unduly bothered about it. 

Then the all important issue of tariffs was dealt with. Those figures weren't arrived at after a detailed study of our actual requirements and without taking peoples' ability to pay into consideration. Instead, we were treated to the spectacle of a political dogfight  in the lead up to the local election, as each party  sought save its political skin.   

After a serious mauling in the polls, followed shortly after by an unprecedented  display of protest when over 150,00 took to the streets to show their opposition to the  proposed charges, we had a complete back down by our supposed leaders. Enda then chipped in his tuppence worth by declaring his opposition to the payment of bonuses.   

John Tierney then took centre stage when he went ahead anyway and announced his proposed bonus system.  According to him, bonuses would be paid to personnel whose work was sub-standard. 

Good God, you wouldn't get the likes of this in the Beano. I'd settle for another CIE if I had to make the choice. 

BTW, one of my nieces told mew that under the original proposed tariffs, she'd would have had to come up with a total of €548 to pay the household charges. Now the demand is down to €160 and if she gets the promised €100 sweetener, she will get away with just €60. 

So €548 was demanded and €60 will be accepted. Someone got the figures seriously wrong somewhere along the line. It's a case of the monkeys being in complete control of the zoo.

That is what the media and the opposition called it.

The way it was set up was that that last (say) 10% of their pay would be performance based. That means that while their equivalent in the other semi-states get full pay even if they are completely useless, the Irish Water mandarins can actually be penalised for their uselessness. (I would make it 50% of their salary. This was actually a good start at dealing with duds in the Civil Service.

But needless to say someone called it a 'bonus culture' and the lemmings ran over the cliff.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on December 12, 2014, 08:25:27 PM
The concept of a bonus need not in itself be a problem, the only issue is on what basis the bonus is paid.
But this is part of the problem, all these issues lie in the detail and people only want to rant and ignore the detail.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 12, 2014, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 12, 2014, 08:25:27 PM
The concept of a bonus need not in itself be a problem, the only issue is on what basis the bonus is paid.
But this is part of the problem, all these issues lie in the detail and people only want to rant and ignore the detail.

Exactly.

Getting behind Higgins (who does this every few years and makes a good TDs salary out of it), Ruth Coppinger, Paul Murphy & Claire Daly and the usual ex-Militant Labour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_(Ireland)) pseudo-revolutionaries is simply naive imho.

The you have Boyd-Barrett (who wants to replace Irish Water with a Wealth Tax) and Brendan Ogle, who I am certain have nothing but the best interests of Irish citizens at heart.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 09:02:36 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 10:54:02 AM
I never suggested we should 'bridge the rest of the deficit by increasing incomes tax rates' or anything like it. I'm saying that we should pay for improvements to public services by increasing tax rates at the top. There is little evidence that this proves a disincentive to work and plenty that it doesn't, e.g. just about every country on the continent.

Can you define exactly what you mean by "tax rates at the top" and your justification for targeting that bracket ?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on December 12, 2014, 09:39:29 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 09:02:36 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 10:54:02 AM
I never suggested we should 'bridge the rest of the deficit by increasing incomes tax rates' or anything like it. I'm saying that we should pay for improvements to public services by increasing tax rates at the top. There is little evidence that this proves a disincentive to work and plenty that it doesn't, e.g. just about every country on the continent.

Can you define exactly what you mean by "tax rates at the top" and your justification for targeting that bracket ?

Watching Vincent Browne last night he had Boyd Barrett and some other leftie on. These advocated increased taxes on the rich, Browne suggest that there weren't that many rich people and that everyone earning more than €50,000 would have to pay more. This calculation wasn't very welcome to Boyd-Barrett, and when he was prattling about a wealth tax Browne said that the wealthy would just leave.

The Irish tax system is already one of the most progressive in the OECD, 6.1% of Irish taxpayers pay 61% of income tax.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 12, 2014, 09:45:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 12, 2014, 09:39:29 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 09:02:36 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 10:54:02 AM
I never suggested we should 'bridge the rest of the deficit by increasing incomes tax rates' or anything like it. I'm saying that we should pay for improvements to public services by increasing tax rates at the top. There is little evidence that this proves a disincentive to work and plenty that it doesn't, e.g. just about every country on the continent.

Can you define exactly what you mean by "tax rates at the top" and your justification for targeting that bracket ?

Watching Vincent Browne last night he had Boyd Barrett and some other leftie on. These advocated increased taxes on the rich, Browne suggest that there weren't that many rich people and that everyone earning more than €50,000 would have to pay more. This calculation wasn't very welcome to Boyd-Barrett, and when he was prattling about a wealth tax Browne said that the wealthy would just leave.

The Irish tax system is already one of the most progressive in the OECD, 6.1% of Irish taxpayers pay 61% of income tax.

Boyd-Barrett and co want that 6% to pay more.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 12, 2014, 09:57:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 12, 2014, 08:44:17 PM
Higgins , Ruth Coppinger, Paul Murphy & Claire Daly and the usual ex-Militant Labour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_(Ireland)) pseudo-revolutionaries ..... Boyd-Barrett (who wants to replace Irish Water with a Wealth Tax) and Brendan Ogle, who I am certain have nothing but the best interests of Irish citizens at heart.
Indeed. They'll have us on the high road to North Korea in no time.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 09:58:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 12, 2014, 09:39:29 PM
The Irish tax system is already one of the most progressive in the OECD, 6.1% of Irish taxpayers pay 61% of income tax.

You're combining 'tax system' with 'income tax system'. The bottom 10 per cent of the population pay out 30.5 per cent of their income in total tax, while the top 10 per cent pay 29.6 per cent.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 10:05:56 PM
But why should that top 10 percent pay more ?

What you seem to fail to understand (or understand all too well..I can never figure out which ) is that a person can work for 20-30 years to get into what is considered a "tax rate at the top" . Stop trying to penalize people for working hard and succeeding. Let them reap the rewards of their efforts.They deserve it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 12, 2014, 10:44:35 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 10:05:56 PM
But why should that top 10 percent pay more ?

What you seem to fail to understand (or understand all too well..I can never figure out which ) is that a person can work for 20-30 years to get into what is considered a "tax rate at the top" . Stop trying to penalize people for working hard and succeeding. Let them reap the rewards of their efforts.They deserve it.

The top 10% more should pay more because it creates a more equitable society.

From an economic point of view, taxing wealthier people has less of an effect on the economy as some / most of that extra tax is taken from savings / private investment. Taxing the poorest has a larger effect since these people spend most of their income back into the economy.

The richest should pay more but not to the extent that there's no benefit to working hard and progressing in a career.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 12, 2014, 10:48:27 PM
Quote from: deiseach on December 12, 2014, 09:58:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 12, 2014, 09:39:29 PM
The Irish tax system is already one of the most progressive in the OECD, 6.1% of Irish taxpayers pay 61% of income tax.

You're combining 'tax system' with 'income tax system'. The bottom 10 per cent of the population pay out 30.5 per cent of their income in total tax, while the top 10 per cent pay 29.6 per cent.

Yes but that might mean the former pays €500 a year in tax while the latter pays €50,000. But you want the latter to pay more 'because he can afford it'.

Why is it only taxation that is like this? Why not charge you €1,000 to get into Croke Park while the unemployed get in free? Why not do this for food, you pay €1,000 a week (because you can afford it) and your neighbour gets it all free? If it is fair for tax it should be fair for anything.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 12, 2014, 11:01:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 12, 2014, 08:25:27 PM
The concept of a bonus need not in itself be a problem, the only issue is on what basis the bonus is paid.
But this is part of the problem, all these issues lie in the detail and people only want to rant and ignore the detail.
I think that in the present case, the fault lies in the lack of detail. I can't remember anyone from Irish Water or from the government quarter making an attempt to explain anything to anyone. Right up to the protest in October, it was a case of, " lie down peasant and do what you're told."

The attempts of the govt. and Irish water to introduce this tax has been a potent mix od arrogance and incompetence in equal measure.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 11:17:24 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 12, 2014, 10:44:35 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 10:05:56 PM
But why should that top 10 percent pay more ?

What you seem to fail to understand (or understand all too well..I can never figure out which ) is that a person can work for 20-30 years to get into what is considered a "tax rate at the top" . Stop trying to penalize people for working hard and succeeding. Let them reap the rewards of their efforts.They deserve it.

The top 10% more should pay more because it creates a more equitable society.


No it does not. The definition of equitable includes the concept of fairness. You should be fairly treated according to your abilities and your work ethic. Society also has a duty to the weak and vulnerable but the definition of "vulnerable" must not be abused.

Most of the people who bandy about the term equitable are implying that everybody is  "equal" . They are not. Society is a continuum of talent, drive and capability and any tax system must take that into account.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 12, 2014, 11:48:40 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 11:17:24 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 12, 2014, 10:44:35 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 10:05:56 PM
But why should that top 10 percent pay more ?

What you seem to fail to understand (or understand all too well..I can never figure out which ) is that a person can work for 20-30 years to get into what is considered a "tax rate at the top" . Stop trying to penalize people for working hard and succeeding. Let them reap the rewards of their efforts.They deserve it.

The top 10% more should pay more because it creates a more equitable society.


No it does not. The definition of equitable includes the concept of fairness. You should be fairly treated according to your abilities and your work ethic. Society also has a duty to the weak and vulnerable but the definition of "vulnerable" must not be abused.

Most of the people who bandy about the term equitable are implying that everybody is  "equal" . They are not. Society is a continuum of talent, drive and capability and any tax system must take that into account.

There's a whole other discussion when it comes to what you term "fairness" mike, do you think a child born tonight in Foxrock and a child born in a disadvantaged part of the inner city both have a fair chance?? I presume the latter is included in the "vulnerable" you mention - how exactly would you propose that society looks after this child?

Or say the child born with a golden spoon who's bone lazy, will he end up with his "fair" lot?

Wealth distribution by taxation isn't an ideal system and yes it rewards plenty of lazy, useless people but it also attempts to give a chance to the less well off to improve their lot



Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 12, 2014, 11:58:00 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 12, 2014, 11:48:40 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 11:17:24 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 12, 2014, 10:44:35 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 10:05:56 PM
But why should that top 10 percent pay more ?

What you seem to fail to understand (or understand all too well..I can never figure out which ) is that a person can work for 20-30 years to get into what is considered a "tax rate at the top" . Stop trying to penalize people for working hard and succeeding. Let them reap the rewards of their efforts.They deserve it.

The top 10% more should pay more because it creates a more equitable society.


No it does not. The definition of equitable includes the concept of fairness. You should be fairly treated according to your abilities and your work ethic. Society also has a duty to the weak and vulnerable but the definition of "vulnerable" must not be abused.

Most of the people who bandy about the term equitable are implying that everybody is  "equal" . They are not. Society is a continuum of talent, drive and capability and any tax system must take that into account.

There's a whole other discussion when it comes to what you term "fairness" mike, do you think a child born tonight in Foxrock and a child born in a disadvantaged part of the inner city both have a fair chance?? I presume the latter is included in the "vulnerable" you mention - how exactly would you propose that society looks after this child?

Or say the child born with a golden spoon who's bone lazy, will he end up with his "fair" lot?

Wealth distribution by taxation isn't an ideal system and yes it rewards plenty of lazy, useless people but it also attempts to give a chance to the less well off to improve their lot

Taxation is not supposed to be about wealth distribution and it is amazing that you would say it is.

That is Mugabe territory.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 12:03:04 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 12, 2014, 11:48:40 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 11:17:24 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 12, 2014, 10:44:35 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 10:05:56 PM
But why should that top 10 percent pay more ?

What you seem to fail to understand (or understand all too well..I can never figure out which ) is that a person can work for 20-30 years to get into what is considered a "tax rate at the top" . Stop trying to penalize people for working hard and succeeding. Let them reap the rewards of their efforts.They deserve it.

The top 10% more should pay more because it creates a more equitable society.


No it does not. The definition of equitable includes the concept of fairness. You should be fairly treated according to your abilities and your work ethic. Society also has a duty to the weak and vulnerable but the definition of "vulnerable" must not be abused.

Most of the people who bandy about the term equitable are implying that everybody is  "equal" . They are not. Society is a continuum of talent, drive and capability and any tax system must take that into account.

There's a whole other discussion when it comes to what you term "fairness" mike, do you think a child born tonight in Foxrock and a child born in a disadvantaged part of the inner city both have a fair chance?? I presume the latter is included in the "vulnerable" you mention - how exactly would you propose that society looks after this child?

Or say the child born with a golden spoon who's bone lazy, will he end up with his "fair" lot?

Wealth distribution by taxation isn't an ideal system and yes it rewards plenty of lazy, useless people but it also attempts to give a chance to the less well off to improve their lot

I've already addressed that in a previous post. I believe that society should provide equality of opportunity so that every child born should not be hindered by his/her circumstances but there must be limits on this. people cannot be deemed "vulnerable" throughout their lives. Eventually society must cut the apron strings.

What I disagree with is how this should be paid for , specifically, the knee jerk reaction that it must be the top 10 percent that pay. It seems to me that if your primary concern is the welfare of kids then the people that must bear the primary burden should be the people that brought them into the world...but practically everybody goes through that so it is not like it is a case of inequity to expect them to pay.  Going after the "top 10 percent" everytime is almost like a double taxation because you are simply going after people that have already "paid their dues" so to speak. They probably have grandkids who they are helping rear for Christ sakes!

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 12:19:23 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 12:03:04 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 12, 2014, 11:48:40 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 11:17:24 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 12, 2014, 10:44:35 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 10:05:56 PM
But why should that top 10 percent pay more ?

What you seem to fail to understand (or understand all too well..I can never figure out which ) is that a person can work for 20-30 years to get into what is considered a "tax rate at the top" . Stop trying to penalize people for working hard and succeeding. Let them reap the rewards of their efforts.They deserve it.

The top 10% more should pay more because it creates a more equitable society.


No it does not. The definition of equitable includes the concept of fairness. You should be fairly treated according to your abilities and your work ethic. Society also has a duty to the weak and vulnerable but the definition of "vulnerable" must not be abused.

Most of the people who bandy about the term equitable are implying that everybody is  "equal" . They are not. Society is a continuum of talent, drive and capability and any tax system must take that into account.

There's a whole other discussion when it comes to what you term "fairness" mike, do you think a child born tonight in Foxrock and a child born in a disadvantaged part of the inner city both have a fair chance?? I presume the latter is included in the "vulnerable" you mention - how exactly would you propose that society looks after this child?

Or say the child born with a golden spoon who's bone lazy, will he end up with his "fair" lot?

Wealth distribution by taxation isn't an ideal system and yes it rewards plenty of lazy, useless people but it also attempts to give a chance to the less well off to improve their lot

I've already addressed that in a previous post. I believe that society should provide equality of opportunity so that every child born should not be hindered by his/her circumstances but there must be limits on this. people cannot be deemed "vulnerable" throughout their lives. Eventually society must cut the apron strings.

What I disagree with is how this should be paid for , specifically, the knee jerk reaction that it must be the top 10 percent that pay. It seems to me that if your primary concern is the welfare of kids then the people that must bear the primary burden should be the people that brought them into the world...but practically everybody goes through that so it is not like it is a case of inequity to expect them to pay.  Going after the "top 10 percent" everytime is almost like a double taxation because you are simply going after people that have already "paid their dues" so to speak. They probably have grandkids who they are helping rear for Christ sakes!

Addressed it?? What specifically was your method of addressing it? Saying society should provide "opportunity" without saying how is meaningless.

"It seems to me that if your primary concern is the welfare of kids then the people that must bear the primary burden should be the people that brought them into the world..." That sounds awfully like "people who can't afford it shouldn'thave kids....

Seeing as you mention grandparents helping to rear the grandkids, what about the grandkid who's grandparents are wasters? No fairness there.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 12:23:42 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 12, 2014, 11:58:00 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 12, 2014, 11:48:40 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 11:17:24 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 12, 2014, 10:44:35 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 10:05:56 PM
But why should that top 10 percent pay more ?

What you seem to fail to understand (or understand all too well..I can never figure out which ) is that a person can work for 20-30 years to get into what is considered a "tax rate at the top" . Stop trying to penalize people for working hard and succeeding. Let them reap the rewards of their efforts.They deserve it.

The top 10% more should pay more because it creates a more equitable society.


No it does not. The definition of equitable includes the concept of fairness. You should be fairly treated according to your abilities and your work ethic. Society also has a duty to the weak and vulnerable but the definition of "vulnerable" must not be abused.

Most of the people who bandy about the term equitable are implying that everybody is  "equal" . They are not. Society is a continuum of talent, drive and capability and any tax system must take that into account.

There's a whole other discussion when it comes to what you term "fairness" mike, do you think a child born tonight in Foxrock and a child born in a disadvantaged part of the inner city both have a fair chance?? I presume the latter is included in the "vulnerable" you mention - how exactly would you propose that society looks after this child?

Or say the child born with a golden spoon who's bone lazy, will he end up with his "fair" lot?

Wealth distribution by taxation isn't an ideal system and yes it rewards plenty of lazy, useless people but it also attempts to give a chance to the less well off to improve their lot

Taxation is not supposed to be about wealth distribution and it is amazing that you would say it is.

That is Mugabe territory.

Huh?? Mugabe??  :o

Taxation pays for services available to everyone regardless of their means. If taxation didn't exist, people would pay for these services out of their earnings if they could afford to. If they couldn't, then they would go without. Why wouldn't you consider taxation a form of wealth distribution?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 12:55:37 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 12:19:23 AM

Addressed it?? What specifically was your method of addressing it? Saying society should provide "opportunity" without saying how is meaningless.

"It seems to me that if your primary concern is the welfare of kids then the people that must bear the primary burden should be the people that brought them into the world..." That sounds awfully like "people who can't afford it shouldn'thave kids....

Seeing as you mention grandparents helping to rear the grandkids, what about the grandkid who's grandparents are wasters? No fairness there.

Hang on, lets establish the basics first...you agree that the people that bring the kids into the world bear the primary financial responsibility for supporting them right ?

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 02:07:41 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 12:19:23 AM
Addressed it?? What specifically was your method of addressing it? Saying society should provide "opportunity" without saying how is meaningless.

I know..it is infuriating isn't it ?

lets be honest, it is much more fun on your side of the fence...I'd love to always be throwing my hands in the air and asking "will anyone think of the children" ? ala the simpsons

Unfortunately, we must think of everyone. Such are the responsibilities of grown ups.   
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 07:27:02 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 02:07:41 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 12:19:23 AM
Addressed it?? What specifically was your method of addressing it? Saying society should provide "opportunity" without saying how is meaningless.

I know..it is infuriating isn't it ?

lets be honest, it is much more fun on your side of the fence...I'd love to always be throwing my hands in the air and asking "will anyone think of the children" ? ala the simpsons

Unfortunately, we must think of everyone. Such are the responsibilities of grown ups.

Complete babble Mike, were you out doing the 12 pubs?

Let's agree to disagree from a social point of view so.

As I explained earlier, it makes economic sense for the govt to apply a higher tax rate (or at least to begin tax cuts at the bottom end) to the top earners. That alone is good enough of a reason.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 13, 2014, 08:33:57 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 12:23:42 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 12, 2014, 11:58:00 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 12, 2014, 11:48:40 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 11:17:24 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 12, 2014, 10:44:35 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 12, 2014, 10:05:56 PM
But why should that top 10 percent pay more ?

What you seem to fail to understand (or understand all too well..I can never figure out which ) is that a person can work for 20-30 years to get into what is considered a "tax rate at the top" . Stop trying to penalize people for working hard and succeeding. Let them reap the rewards of their efforts.They deserve it.

The top 10% more should pay more because it creates a more equitable society.


No it does not. The definition of equitable includes the concept of fairness. You should be fairly treated according to your abilities and your work ethic. Society also has a duty to the weak and vulnerable but the definition of "vulnerable" must not be abused.

Most of the people who bandy about the term equitable are implying that everybody is  "equal" . They are not. Society is a continuum of talent, drive and capability and any tax system must take that into account.

There's a whole other discussion when it comes to what you term "fairness" mike, do you think a child born tonight in Foxrock and a child born in a disadvantaged part of the inner city both have a fair chance?? I presume the latter is included in the "vulnerable" you mention - how exactly would you propose that society looks after this child?

Or say the child born with a golden spoon who's bone lazy, will he end up with his "fair" lot?

Wealth distribution by taxation isn't an ideal system and yes it rewards plenty of lazy, useless people but it also attempts to give a chance to the less well off to improve their lot

Taxation is not supposed to be about wealth distribution and it is amazing that you would say it is.

That is Mugabe territory.

Huh?? Mugabe??  :o

Taxation pays for services available to everyone regardless of their means. If taxation didn't exist, people would pay for these services out of their earnings if they could afford to. If they couldn't, then they would go without. Why wouldn't you consider taxation a form of wealth distribution?

Income is not wealth.

Wealth: Robert Mugabe is involved in wealth re-distribution. Cromwell and the various English kings were involved in Wealth re-distribution. The likes of Boyd-Barrett and, up to recently Sinn Féin, have been advocating a Wealth Tax. That is also wealth re-distribution. It will never happen here if we want to remain part of world trade. The problem is thus. SF proposed a 5% wealth tax a few years ago until it was pointed out to them that in 20 years the state would own (roughly) everything. That is why most developed countries don't do a simple wealth tax. It is simply the State taking your money until, given enough time, it all runs out.

Income: Plenty in Ireland have decent incomes, but due to our high taxation they will never have wealth. The biggest obstacle to your inner city child moving to Foxrock is income tax. He can be a great success in life and earn a fortune, but our taxation system will take most of it off him.

As an aside I must point out, free healthcare and free education are a must in any developed society. But a bloated, inefficient and gold plated unfunded pension-providing Civil Service is not.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mylestheslasher on December 13, 2014, 09:58:12 AM
I have no problem paying a fair price for maintaining our water network. The problem I have is as follows...

- Irish water has already been shown to be as big a joke as all the other semi states with bonuses for people that didnt even do any work yet! I've no faith in FG/FF/Lab/SF or anyone else to actually set up a proper fucntioning company where its employees are accountable for their performance.
- Anyone who believes that the company is being set up to solely pay for maintaining the network is a fool. Its revenue generation above and beyond repairing the network otherwise why would our German friends care about it.
- The obvious end goal is to sell it off to a private company in a few years for a few billion. The resisitance of the government to a referendum on keeping it public is proof of that, one of FGs own TDs said as much in the dail the other day.

And although many may scoff at Sf and the other left parties, don't forget that the FG and FF and Labour of this world have told and are telling just as many porkies if not more. Some of the FG ones before the last election are seriously embarrassing.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 13, 2014, 11:02:55 AM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on December 13, 2014, 09:58:12 AM
I have no problem paying a fair price for maintaining our water network. The problem I have is as follows...

- Irish water has already been shown to be as big a joke as all the other semi states with bonuses for people that didnt even do any work yet! I've no faith in FG/FF/Lab/SF or anyone else to actually set up a proper fucntioning company where its employees are accountable for their performance.
- Anyone who believes that the company is being set up to solely pay for maintaining the network is a fool. Its revenue generation above and beyond repairing the network otherwise why would our German friends care about it.
- The obvious end goal is to sell it off to a private company in a few years for a few billion. The resisitance of the government to a referendum on keeping it public is proof of that, one of FGs own TDs said as much in the dail the other day.

And although many may scoff at Sf and the other left parties, don't forget that the FG and FF and Labour of this world have told and are telling just as many porkies if not more. Some of the FG ones before the last election are seriously embarrassing.
+1

May I add that if we sorted out the waste, got rid of bonuses and made the public sector more efficient, we would save a fortune annually that could go towards easing taxation and increasing benefits for poorer people and associated services.

Proper companies ( state) can work on fixing water pipes and we can pay for the water service.
The tax loosening would enable folk to pay and have more disposable income.
IMO
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 13, 2014, 11:25:23 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 13, 2014, 11:02:55 AM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on December 13, 2014, 09:58:12 AM
I have no problem paying a fair price for maintaining our water network. The problem I have is as follows...

- Irish water has already been shown to be as big a joke as all the other semi states with bonuses for people that didnt even do any work yet! I've no faith in FG/FF/Lab/SF or anyone else to actually set up a proper fucntioning company where its employees are accountable for their performance.
- Anyone who believes that the company is being set up to solely pay for maintaining the network is a fool. Its revenue generation above and beyond repairing the network otherwise why would our German friends care about it.
- The obvious end goal is to sell it off to a private company in a few years for a few billion. The resisitance of the government to a referendum on keeping it public is proof of that, one of FGs own TDs said as much in the dail the other day.

And although many may scoff at Sf and the other left parties, don't forget that the FG and FF and Labour of this world have told and are telling just as many porkies if not more. Some of the FG ones before the last election are seriously embarrassing.
+1

May I add that if we sorted out the waste, got rid of bonuses and made the public sector more efficient, we would save a fortune annually that could go towards easing taxation and increasing benefits for poorer people and associated services.

Proper companies ( state) can work on fixing water pipes and we can pay for the water service.
The tax loosening would enable folk to pay and have more disposable income.
IMO

I would agree with all of that LB.

I agree with most of Myles post with the caveat that I think he underestimates the danger of the Boyd-Barrets and ULAs of the world.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 12:23:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 13, 2014, 08:33:57 AM


Income is not wealth.

Wealth: Robert Mugabe is involved in wealth re-distribution. Cromwell and the various English kings were involved in Wealth re-distribution. The likes of Boyd-Barrett and, up to recently Sinn Féin, have been advocating a Wealth Tax. That is also wealth re-distribution. It will never happen here if we want to remain part of world trade. The problem is thus. SF proposed a 5% wealth tax a few years ago until it was pointed out to them that in 20 years the state would own (roughly) everything. That is why most developed countries don't do a simple wealth tax. It is simply the State taking your money until, given enough time, it all runs out.

Income: Plenty in Ireland have decent incomes, but due to our high taxation they will never have wealth. The biggest obstacle to your inner city child moving to Foxrock is income tax. He can be a great success in life and earn a fortune, but our taxation system will take most of it off him.

As an aside I must point out, free healthcare and free education are a must in any developed society. But a bloated, inefficient and gold plated unfunded pension-providing Civil Service is not.

You're gone off on a complete tangent there muppet

If you read what I posted I was describing our taxation system as a method of wealth distribution, I was not advocating a wealth tax a described by you. You're entitled to disagree with my description of the tax system as such but don't go putting words in my mouth
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 01:18:09 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 07:27:02 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 02:07:41 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 12:19:23 AM
Addressed it?? What specifically was your method of addressing it? Saying society should provide "opportunity" without saying how is meaningless.

I know..it is infuriating isn't it ?

lets be honest, it is much more fun on your side of the fence...I'd love to always be throwing my hands in the air and asking "will anyone think of the children" ? ala the simpsons

Unfortunately, we must think of everyone. Such are the responsibilities of grown ups.

Complete babble Mike, were you out doing the 12 pubs?

Let's agree to disagree from a social point of view so.

As I explained earlier, it makes economic sense for the govt to apply a higher tax rate (or at least to begin tax cuts at the bottom end) to the top earners. That alone is good enough of a reason.

Nope, stone cold sober. However you'd drive a man to drink with some of your attitudes. Using the tax system as a method of wealth distribution is simply crazy. Tax is not supposed to be for distributing wealth it is supposed to fund the running of the country and the provision of services such as roads, guards etc and there is a limit to how much can be funded.



Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 01:52:57 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 01:18:09 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 07:27:02 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 02:07:41 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 12:19:23 AM
Addressed it?? What specifically was your method of addressing it? Saying society should provide "opportunity" without saying how is meaningless.

I know..it is infuriating isn't it ?

lets be honest, it is much more fun on your side of the fence...I'd love to always be throwing my hands in the air and asking "will anyone think of the children" ? ala the simpsons

Unfortunately, we must think of everyone. Such are the responsibilities of grown ups.

Complete babble Mike, were you out doing the 12 pubs?

Let's agree to disagree from a social point of view so.

As I explained earlier, it makes economic sense for the govt to apply a higher tax rate (or at least to begin tax cuts at the bottom end) to the top earners. That alone is good enough of a reason.

Nope, stone cold sober. However you'd drive a man to drink with some of your attitudes. Using the tax system as a method of wealth distribution is simply crazy. Tax is not supposed to be for distributing wealth it is supposed to fund the running of the country and the provision of services such as roads, guards etc and there is a limit to how much can be funded.

You're right but some people can afford to pay more money to fund the running if the country than others and therfore they should
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 13, 2014, 02:04:10 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 12:23:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 13, 2014, 08:33:57 AM


Income is not wealth.

Wealth: Robert Mugabe is involved in wealth re-distribution. Cromwell and the various English kings were involved in Wealth re-distribution. The likes of Boyd-Barrett and, up to recently Sinn Féin, have been advocating a Wealth Tax. That is also wealth re-distribution. It will never happen here if we want to remain part of world trade. The problem is thus. SF proposed a 5% wealth tax a few years ago until it was pointed out to them that in 20 years the state would own (roughly) everything. That is why most developed countries don't do a simple wealth tax. It is simply the State taking your money until, given enough time, it all runs out.

Income: Plenty in Ireland have decent incomes, but due to our high taxation they will never have wealth. The biggest obstacle to your inner city child moving to Foxrock is income tax. He can be a great success in life and earn a fortune, but our taxation system will take most of it off him.

As an aside I must point out, free healthcare and free education are a must in any developed society. But a bloated, inefficient and gold plated unfunded pension-providing Civil Service is not.

You're gone off on a complete tangent there muppet

If you read what I posted I was describing our taxation system as a method of wealth distribution, I was not advocating a wealth tax a described by you. You're entitled to disagree with my description of the tax system as such but don't go putting words in my mouth

You described our taxation system it as 'wealth distribution'.

I didn't put those words in your mouth, you said it. Twice now.

Income is not wealth. Wealth means you can go without income.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 02:23:26 PM
Yes, I described the tax system as wealth distribution. Your entire response was about a wealth tax and Robert Mugabe i.e. completely unrelated to what I was talking about.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 13, 2014, 02:29:13 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on December 13, 2014, 09:58:12 AM
I have no problem paying a fair price for maintaining our water network. The problem I have is as follows...

- Irish water has already been shown to be as big a joke as all the other semi states with bonuses for people that didnt even do any work yet! I've no faith in FG/FF/Lab/SF or anyone else to actually set up a proper fucntioning company where its employees are accountable for their performance.
- Anyone who believes that the company is being set up to solely pay for maintaining the network is a fool. Its revenue generation above and beyond repairing the network otherwise why would our German friends care about it.
- The obvious end goal is to sell it off to a private company in a few years for a few billion. The resisitance of the government to a referendum on keeping it public is proof of that, one of FGs own TDs said as much in the dail the other day.

And although many may scoff at Sf and the other left parties, don't forget that the FG and FF and Labour of this world have told and are telling just as many porkies if not more. Some of the FG ones before the last election are seriously embarrassing.
Of course it's not just for maintaining the network - it's for the actual treatment and distribution of water and the removal of waste water. For example, Irish Water will probably be one of the biggest electricity users in the country with the cost of pumping clean water and waste. Before you even look at the need to maintain the network (never mind grow the network to meet increasing demand, or improve it to meet new water quality / discharge standards), the costs of treatment, delivery and reception are massive. Unless charges are out of line with what people in other european countries pay for water, there's no reason (other than general cynicism) to believe it's revenue generation for any other purpose.

And my understanding is the reason for the European interest was the need for the country to broaden its tax base (the narrow tax base being a significant issue at the time of the crash), so that it didn't have over-reliance on a small number of taxes, or have to fund as many services from general taxation.

I'd support the idea of a referendum on ownership, in part because it would remove one of the biggest arguments to establishing a proper water utility.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 13, 2014, 02:54:45 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 02:23:26 PM
Yes, I described the tax system as wealth distribution. Your entire response was about a wealth tax and Robert Mugabe i.e. completely unrelated to what I was talking about.

But taxing income is not wealth distribution. Taxing income prevents the accumulation of wealth, it certainly doesn't punish anyone already with wealth.

Wealth distribution require wealth taxes. People need to be careful what they ask for. We already have some subtle wealth taxes, e.g inheritance tax & gift taxes. If you inherit money from anyone other than a parent (or child) you pay 33% on everything over €30,000. Do we really want more of this sort of thing?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 03:01:20 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 01:52:57 PM

You're right but some people can afford to pay more money to fund the running if the country than others and therfore they should

I think what we need is an "ideology" tax where people like you pay more tax. You can afford to pay more than you are paying right now and , since you believe so strongly in the concept, then we should tax you at, lets say , 80% of your income above a certain level. Then the rest of us stay at current taxation levels. That way everybody gets what they want. Your quality of life takes a big hit but you get the social utopia you desire, the top earners still pay more than most but are not screwed for being sucessful and working hard. Everybody wins.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 03:05:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 13, 2014, 02:54:45 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 02:23:26 PM
Yes, I described the tax system as wealth distribution. Your entire response was about a wealth tax and Robert Mugabe i.e. completely unrelated to what I was talking about.

But taxing income is not wealth distribution. Taxing income prevents the accumulation of wealth, it certainly doesn't punish anyone already with wealth.

Wealth distribution require wealth taxes. People need to be careful what they ask for. We already have some subtle wealth taxes, e.g inheritance tax & gift taxes. If you inherit money from anyone other than a parent (or child) you pay 33% on everything over €30,000. Do we really want more of this sort of thing?

Not sure if you're missing my point on purpose or not - I described income tax as wealth, now you can disagree with my definition of income tax as wealth distribution and it's probably only semantics anyway but at no point did I mention wealth tax or anything else you're referring to.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 03:15:42 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 03:01:20 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 01:52:57 PM

You're right but some people can afford to pay more money to fund the running if the country than others and therfore they should

I think what we need is an "ideology" tax where people like you pay more tax. You can afford to pay more than you are paying right now and , since you believe so strongly in the concept, then we should tax you at, lets say , 80% of your income above a certain level. Then the rest of us stay at current taxation levels. That way everybody gets what they want. Your quality of life takes a big hit but you get the social utopia you desire, the top earners still pay more than most but are not screwed for being sucessful and working hard. Everybody wins.

So anything other than your uber capitalist vision of the world is living in a dreamworld
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 13, 2014, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 03:05:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 13, 2014, 02:54:45 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 02:23:26 PM
Yes, I described the tax system as wealth distribution. Your entire response was about a wealth tax and Robert Mugabe i.e. completely unrelated to what I was talking about.

But taxing income is not wealth distribution. Taxing income prevents the accumulation of wealth, it certainly doesn't punish anyone already with wealth.

Wealth distribution require wealth taxes. People need to be careful what they ask for. We already have some subtle wealth taxes, e.g inheritance tax & gift taxes. If you inherit money from anyone other than a parent (or child) you pay 33% on everything over €30,000. Do we really want more of this sort of thing?

Not sure if you're missing my point on purpose or not - I described income tax as wealth, now you can disagree with my definition of income tax as wealth distribution and it's probably only semantics anyway but at no point did I mention wealth tax or anything else you're referring to.

You are missing your own point.

You described our taxation system as 'wealth distribution'. These were your words. You then accused me of putting your own words in your mouth. Since the bank collapse our taxation system has actually become debt distribution, the complete opposite of wealth distribution.

Wealth distribution, your words not mine, requires either a massive windfall for a state (we have had the complete opposite) and thus they have something to distribute or they need to impose wealth taxes, or they simply start seizing assets (the far-left and far-right have this fetish in common).
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 03:37:57 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 03:15:42 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 03:01:20 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 01:52:57 PM

You're right but some people can afford to pay more money to fund the running if the country than others and therfore they should

I think what we need is an "ideology" tax where people like you pay more tax. You can afford to pay more than you are paying right now and , since you believe so strongly in the concept, then we should tax you at, lets say , 80% of your income above a certain level. Then the rest of us stay at current taxation levels. That way everybody gets what they want. Your quality of life takes a big hit but you get the social utopia you desire, the top earners still pay more than most but are not screwed for being sucessful and working hard. Everybody wins.

So anything other than your uber capitalist vision of the world is living in a dreamworld

Uber capitalist  ::) Simply allowing people to retain the fruits of their labour is not uber capitalism. It is basic fairness. You seem to have an incredible sense of entitlement toward other peoples hard earned money and it is simply wrong. It is bad policy and it is fundamentally unfair. People already pay enough tax including the top earners (again, lets be clear here, the bulk of the "top earners" probably took years to get there...)  There must be other ways of solving the problems., You cant simply keep going back and taking more and more off people. Eventually they will just stop producing as there will be no incentive to do any better...what will be the point ?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 04:56:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 13, 2014, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 03:05:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 13, 2014, 02:54:45 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 02:23:26 PM
Yes, I described the tax system as wealth distribution. Your entire response was about a wealth tax and Robert Mugabe i.e. completely unrelated to what I was talking about.

But taxing income is not wealth distribution. Taxing income prevents the accumulation of wealth, it certainly doesn't punish anyone already with wealth.

Wealth distribution require wealth taxes. People need to be careful what they ask for. We already have some subtle wealth taxes, e.g inheritance tax & gift taxes. If you inherit money from anyone other than a parent (or child) you pay 33% on everything over €30,000. Do we really want more of this sort of thing?

Not sure if you're missing my point on purpose or not - I described income tax as wealth, now you can disagree with my definition of income tax as wealth distribution and it's probably only semantics anyway but at no point did I mention wealth tax or anything else you're referring to.

You are missing your own point.

You described our taxation system as 'wealth distribution'. These were your words. You then accused me of putting your own words in your mouth. Since the bank collapse our taxation system has actually become debt distribution, the complete opposite of wealth distribution.

Wealth distribution, your words not mine, requires either a massive windfall for a state (we have had the complete opposite) and thus they have something to distribute or they need to impose wealth taxes, or they simply start seizing assets (the far-left and far-right have this fetish in common).

One last time: I defined (perhaps incorrectly according to your definition)  our tax system as wealth distribution. You now apply your definition to wealth distribution (this is the part where you're putting words in my mouth) and for some reason expect me to defend your definition.

Just so as we're clear, I think that the more you earn, the more tax you should pay - nothing about a wealth tax or anything else.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 05:07:43 PM
According to Ibec,  Ireland already has the most progressive tax system in the developed world and is the most redistribute in Europe. The burden of taxation is already heavily distributed toward top earners. The reason for this social transfer is to combat inequality , fine, but the major root cause of the inequality is joblessness so the obvious first step is to tackle the joblessness not disincentivize the very segment of the population that are most likely help solve the critical problem which requires higher taxes in the first place !
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 05:08:59 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 03:37:57 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 03:15:42 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 03:01:20 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 01:52:57 PM

You're right but some people can afford to pay more money to fund the running if the country than others and therfore they should

I think what we need is an "ideology" tax where people like you pay more tax. You can afford to pay more than you are paying right now and , since you believe so strongly in the concept, then we should tax you at, lets say , 80% of your income above a certain level. Then the rest of us stay at current taxation levels. That way everybody gets what they want. Your quality of life takes a big hit but you get the social utopia you desire, the top earners still pay more than most but are not screwed for being sucessful and working hard. Everybody wins.

So anything other than your uber capitalist vision of the world is living in a dreamworld

Uber capitalist  ::) Simply allowing people to retain the fruits of their labour is not uber capitalism. It is basic fairness. You seem to have an incredible sense of entitlement toward other peoples hard earned money and it is simply wrong. It is bad policy and it is fundamentally unfair. People already pay enough tax including the top earners (again, lets be clear here, the bulk of the "top earners" probably took years to get there...)  There must be other ways of solving the problems., You cant simply keep going back and taking more and more off people. Eventually they will just stop producing as there will be no incentive to do any better...what will be the point ?

For what it's worth mike I would be one of the ones paying more taxes so my views do not stem from any sense of entitlement.

You mentioned fairness previously and providing an opportunity for the vulnerable in society - how do you propose to do that if not through higher taxes on those most able to afford it (or conversely and more appropriately in the current environment by beginning tax cuts at the bottom end of the scale). Just to be clear, I'm not advocating a 90% tax on high earners, I'd be thinking something along the lines of an increase in the top rate from 41% to say 50-55% once you get over say something like 150k and say 60-65% once you get over 250-300k.

You appear to have strong views that taxation at the top end is not the way to go so I presume you have an alternative?

Since you mention "bad policy" - have you considered the fact that tax cuts at the lower end of the scale have a greater multiplier effect than those at the top end?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 06:15:32 PM
QuoteYou mentioned fairness previously and providing an opportunity for the vulnerable in society - how do you propose to do that if not through higher taxes on those most able to afford it

This is what I am struggling to understand. What is the goal here....a perfect utopia with no social issues ? That will be impossible to fund. When I say provide opportunity I am talking about things that are, for the most part, already in place, chief among them would be to provide kids with an education and provide things like  child allowance, rent allowance, access to healthcare etc to give them a chance at life. Improvements can be made, for sure , but you are proposing a 15% increase in a persons income above a certain rate simply because you deem that they "can afford it" to fund ..?? what.??.exactly ??.  Are we talking about providing more shelters for abused women...ok,no problem ...does the shelter need a 28inch TV with free internet in every room....hmmmm...we need to talk about that. Do you understand ? The key point is that you cannot be so blasé about it. You have to really, really justify it. You have to understand that it is not so much the actual tax that is so infuriating  it is this blasé attitude that some people have !
.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 06:33:06 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 06:15:32 PM
QuoteYou mentioned fairness previously and providing an opportunity for the vulnerable in society - how do you propose to do that if not through higher taxes on those most able to afford it

This is what I am struggling to understand. What is the goal here....a perfect utopia with no social issues ? That will be impossible to fund. When I say provide opportunity I am talking about things that are, for the most part, already in place, chief among them would be to provide kids with an education and provide things like  child allowance, rent allowance, access to healthcare etc to give them a chance at life. Improvements can be made, for sure , but you are proposing a 15% increase in a persons income above a certain rate simply because you deem that they "can afford it" to fund ..?? what.??.exactly ??.  Are we talking about providing more shelters for abused women...ok,no problem ...does the shelter need a 28inch TV with free internet in every room....hmmmm...we need to talk about that. Do you understand ? The key point is that you cannot be so blasé about it. You have to really, really justify it. You have to understand that it is not so much the actual tax that is so infuriating  it is this blasé attitude that some people have !
.

TBH, I'm talking about it in general terms for funding existing services rather than getting into what deserves to be funded and what doesn't. IMO higher earners should pay more tax than lower earners with the result that more money circulates in the economy and the less well off have an opportunity to live somewhat better.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 06:46:49 PM
yes, and high earners already do pay more taxes.I believe there is a limit to how much someone's income should be taxed in order to bring somebody elses standard of living up. Ireland has already surpassed that limit imo.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 13, 2014, 11:39:20 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 06:33:06 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on December 13, 2014, 06:15:32 PM
QuoteYou mentioned fairness previously and providing an opportunity for the vulnerable in society - how do you propose to do that if not through higher taxes on those most able to afford it

This is what I am struggling to understand. What is the goal here....a perfect utopia with no social issues ? That will be impossible to fund. When I say provide opportunity I am talking about things that are, for the most part, already in place, chief among them would be to provide kids with an education and provide things like  child allowance, rent allowance, access to healthcare etc to give them a chance at life. Improvements can be made, for sure , but you are proposing a 15% increase in a persons income above a certain rate simply because you deem that they "can afford it" to fund ..?? what.??.exactly ??.  Are we talking about providing more shelters for abused women...ok,no problem ...does the shelter need a 28inch TV with free internet in every room....hmmmm...we need to talk about that. Do you understand ? The key point is that you cannot be so blasé about it. You have to really, really justify it. You have to understand that it is not so much the actual tax that is so infuriating  it is this blasé attitude that some people have !
.

TBH, I'm talking about it in general terms for funding existing services rather than getting into what deserves to be funded and what doesn't. IMO higher earners should pay more tax than lower earners with the result that more money circulates in the economy and the less well off have an opportunity to live somewhat better.
MacD2 - can I ask are you a shinner?
If not I reckon that your ideas/ideals here are where they are heading!

Unlike muppet I don't think they will get into power just yet. Even though there are rumours abound that they will link up with ff !!!!

Like mike I'm a capitalist - I'd like to pay a bit less tax. I'm all for helping out those less well off but think I pay enough towards that already!
Think there are a good few reforms in the state bodies that can yield this extra funding for lesser waged folk instead of hitting my pocket more!
Plus I'm doing my bit for the local economy by eating and drinking all round me!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 14, 2014, 12:03:11 AM
A Shinner? Jesus, not a chance man.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on December 14, 2014, 02:05:47 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 13, 2014, 11:39:20 PM
Think there are a good few reforms in the state bodies that can yield this extra funding for lesser waged folk instead of hitting my pocket more!

There isn't really this scope. Services could be better run to provide better service, sp that people wound not die unnecessarily in the health service or ensuring that everyone is literate, but there isn't really a vast amount of savings at this point. The money given to people who do not work for the government substantially exceeds the amount spent on those who do. The savings am may well lie in ensuring that money goes to people who need it, and not to those who do not.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 14, 2014, 03:27:38 AM
I think there's still massive savings to be had from introducing modern technology in the public service. Govt seem to be scared of that since the ppars debacle though.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 14, 2014, 10:19:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2014, 02:05:47 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 13, 2014, 11:39:20 PM
Think there are a good few reforms in the state bodies that can yield this extra funding for lesser waged folk instead of hitting my pocket more!

There isn't really this scope. Services could be better run to provide better service, sp that people wound not die unnecessarily in the health service or ensuring that everyone is literate, but there isn't really a vast amount of savings at this point. The money given to people who do not work for the government substantially exceeds the amount spent on those who do. The savings am may well lie in ensuring that money goes to people who need it, and not to those who do not.
Yep, state pension and other welfare payments are massive proportion of public expenditure.

And despite claims of an inefficient public sector, I'd love to see what proportion are frontline vs support. Not forgetting that the way to save more money in the public sector is by cutting numbers, and unless you have private sector jobs there, you're just loading more onto the welfare bill.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on December 14, 2014, 01:26:18 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2014, 03:27:38 AM
I think there's still massive savings to be had from introducing modern technology in the public service. Govt seem to be scared of that since the ppars debacle though.

PPARS was an attempt to record a system where nobody new what was going on, using an IT system where by definition you have to program the thing according to some known approach. Knowing what is going on is a good start, even if you never introduced further IT. But if you were working in a substantial job in IT in the public service your salary would have been cut by 20%, while IT salaries generally might have had a slight increase, if you were any good you'd just leave and go to work elsewhere.

There are savings to be made, but a large chunk of public spending is in education, where class size is already pretty much the highest in Europe. Health is definitely inefficient, but seems to resist improvement.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 14, 2014, 01:52:04 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 04:56:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 13, 2014, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 03:05:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 13, 2014, 02:54:45 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 02:23:26 PM
Yes, I described the tax system as wealth distribution. Your entire response was about a wealth tax and Robert Mugabe i.e. completely unrelated to what I was talking about.

But taxing income is not wealth distribution. Taxing income prevents the accumulation of wealth, it certainly doesn't punish anyone already with wealth.

Wealth distribution require wealth taxes. People need to be careful what they ask for. We already have some subtle wealth taxes, e.g inheritance tax & gift taxes. If you inherit money from anyone other than a parent (or child) you pay 33% on everything over €30,000. Do we really want more of this sort of thing?

Not sure if you're missing my point on purpose or not - I described income tax as wealth, now you can disagree with my definition of income tax as wealth distribution and it's probably only semantics anyway but at no point did I mention wealth tax or anything else you're referring to.

You are missing your own point.

You described our taxation system as 'wealth distribution'. These were your words. You then accused me of putting your own words in your mouth. Since the bank collapse our taxation system has actually become debt distribution, the complete opposite of wealth distribution.

Wealth distribution, your words not mine, requires either a massive windfall for a state (we have had the complete opposite) and thus they have something to distribute or they need to impose wealth taxes, or they simply start seizing assets (the far-left and far-right have this fetish in common).

One last time: I defined (perhaps incorrectly according to your definition)  our tax system as wealth distribution. You now apply your definition to wealth distribution (this is the part where you're putting words in my mouth) and for some reason expect me to defend your definition.

Just so as we're clear, I think that the more you earn, the more tax you should pay - nothing about a wealth tax or anything else.

One last time here too.

Income is not wealth, by any definition, not just mine.

Income definition:
The amount of money or its equivalent received during a period of time in exchange for labor or services, from the sale of goods or property, or as profit from financial investments.

Wealth definition:
An abundance of valuable material possessions or resources; riches.
n.   The state of being rich; affluence.
n.   All goods and resources having value in terms of exchange or use.


That is why income tax is the not the same as wealth tax.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 14, 2014, 02:09:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2014, 02:05:47 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 13, 2014, 11:39:20 PM
Think there are a good few reforms in the state bodies that can yield this extra funding for lesser waged folk instead of hitting my pocket more!

There isn't really this scope. Services could be better run to provide better service, sp that people wound not die unnecessarily in the health service or ensuring that everyone is literate, but there isn't really a vast amount of savings at this point. The money given to people who do not work for the government substantially exceeds the amount spent on those who do. The savings am may well lie in ensuring that money goes to people who need it, and not to those who do not.

I think there is. The following is an extreme example of this but there is much scope.

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1023055.shtml (http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1023055.shtml)

Ireland's top civil servant retires at 57 on €713,000 package and future cost of millions

Normally a headline figure of a €713,000 pension package translates into a pension of just over €35,000 per annum. But in this case the man got:    

In addition to an annual pension of €142,670, McCarthy received a once-off lump sum of €428,011. He also got a full year's pension as a special severance payment of €142,670.

The usual spin from Government, Civil Service and even much of the Opposition is that these are legally binding deals. But who writes the law? The scumbags introduced a pension levy on private funds. This is a wealth tax on pensions that people have actually funded themselves. The above pension wasn't funded, i.e. there was no fund, so the levy doesn't apply. So where does the money come from? Directly from the taxpayer of course. If they wanted to they could have introduced a levy on unfunded pensions to match the one on funded pensions. This would have been fair, and legal, but of course the only people affected would have been Senior Civil Servants, Senators and TDs. 

In summary we have a situation whereby people who fund their own pensions pay an extra tax, while TDs & Civil Servants who don't fund their own whopping pensions, pay nothing.

But that is not all. Read this also from the above link:

Unless the existing pension system is changed, any pay increases successors in his position will get, he will get the same increases on his pension.

The current system is a shameful one. It was devised by politicians and senior civil servants who are the main beneficiaries.

People with guaranteed job security from the State, in addition are paid pay premiums over counterparts in the private sector and have an unfunded very generous pension system, paid by workers in the private sector, who typically have none.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 14, 2014, 03:25:41 PM
an interesting reply to Gene Kerrigans article today...with the U-turn by the government to attempt at the minimum to get everyone signed up for the service you would have to consider the reasons for this tax in the first place. theres a shitload of money to be made once you own the resource and the plebs have signed it away. It's certainly not about making a utility run well for the population.


"Once again, Gene Kerrigan reveals the shadowy goings on behind the public facade. Clearly there is more to this than a government trying to modernise the water delivery system.

Most people would accept that the processing and transmission into people's homes of drinkable water needs to be paid for. Most people would also accept that the current arrangement whereby the maintenance of the national infrastructure is left to a multitude of local councils needs to be changed. But what gives many people pause is the sinister undercurrent to this whole affair.

Are we being compelled to commodify one of our greatest natural resources for the sake of some bigger agenda? In many parts of the world, safe drinking water is precious and there is talk of future wars being fought over this resource.

As a country we have lots of the 'raw material'. But we are also hamstrung by our massive debt obligations and 'he who pays the piper calls the tune'.

Who is calling the tune in this case? I am pretty certain it is not Alan Kelly, Joan Burton or Enda Kenny.
"
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 14, 2014, 03:42:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 14, 2014, 01:52:04 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 04:56:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 13, 2014, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 03:05:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 13, 2014, 02:54:45 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 13, 2014, 02:23:26 PM
Yes, I described the tax system as wealth distribution. Your entire response was about a wealth tax and Robert Mugabe i.e. completely unrelated to what I was talking about.

But taxing income is not wealth distribution. Taxing income prevents the accumulation of wealth, it certainly doesn't punish anyone already with wealth.

Wealth distribution require wealth taxes. People need to be careful what they ask for. We already have some subtle wealth taxes, e.g inheritance tax & gift taxes. If you inherit money from anyone other than a parent (or child) you pay 33% on everything over €30,000. Do we really want more of this sort of thing?

Not sure if you're missing my point on purpose or not - I described income tax as wealth, now you can disagree with my definition of income tax as wealth distribution and it's probably only semantics anyway but at no point did I mention wealth tax or anything else you're referring to.

You are missing your own point.

You described our taxation system as 'wealth distribution'. These were your words. You then accused me of putting your own words in your mouth. Since the bank collapse our taxation system has actually become debt distribution, the complete opposite of wealth distribution.

Wealth distribution, your words not mine, requires either a massive windfall for a state (we have had the complete opposite) and thus they have something to distribute or they need to impose wealth taxes, or they simply start seizing assets (the far-left and far-right have this fetish in common).

One last time: I defined (perhaps incorrectly according to your definition)  our tax system as wealth distribution. You now apply your definition to wealth distribution (this is the part where you're putting words in my mouth) and for some reason expect me to defend your definition.

Just so as we're clear, I think that the more you earn, the more tax you should pay - nothing about a wealth tax or anything else.

One last time here too.

Income is not wealth, by any definition, not just mine.

Income definition:
The amount of money or its equivalent received during a period of time in exchange for labor or services, from the sale of goods or property, or as profit from financial investments.

Wealth definition:
An abundance of valuable material possessions or resources; riches.
n.   The state of being rich; affluence.
n.   All goods and resources having value in terms of exchange or use.


That is why income tax is the not the same as wealth tax.

You're the only one rabbiting on about a wealth tax!!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on December 14, 2014, 04:25:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 14, 2014, 02:09:33 PM


I think there is. The following is an extreme example of this but there is much scope.

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1023055.shtml (http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1023055.shtml)

Ireland's top civil servant retires at 57 on €713,000 package and future cost of millions

Normally a headline figure of a €713,000 pension package translates into a pension of just over €35,000 per annum. But in this case the man got:    

In addition to an annual pension of €142,670, McCarthy received a once-off lump sum of €428,011. He also got a full year's pension as a special severance payment of €142,670.

These things may need to be changed, but even if the 100 people involved have changes it will not support the several hundred thousand people should not pay tax. My point related to savings not being proportionate to the expectation that seems to be abroad that everyone can have free water, no USC etc.


QuoteThe usual spin from Government, Civil Service and even much of the Opposition is that these are legally binding deals.

Any contract is binding, if you do not want a deal then do not agree it, reneging on it is corruption pure and simple.

Quotehe scumbags introduced a pension levy on private funds. This is a wealth tax on pensions that people have actually funded themselves. The above pension wasn't funded, i.e. there was no fund, so the levy doesn't apply. So where does the money come from, directly from the taxpayer of course. If they wanted to they could have introduced a levy on unfunded pensions to match the one on funded pensions. This would have been fair, and legal, but of course the only people affected would have been Senior Civil Servants, Senators and TDs.

In summary we have a situation whereby people who fund the own pensions pay an extra tax, while TDs & Civil Servants who don't fund their own whopping pensions, pay nothing.[/quote]

All of this ignores that public pensions were reduced also. 


QuoteBut that is not all. Read this also from the above link:

Unless the existing pension system is changed, any pay increases successors in his position will get, he will get the same increases on his pension.

Just as old age pension recipients do not receive the pension fixed at what they get when they are 65, but have increases broadly in line with wage trends.

QuoteThe current system is a shameful one. It was devised by politicians and senior civil servants who are the main beneficiaries.

It wasn't secret or concealed in any way. People were happy to vote for these politicians.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 14, 2014, 04:31:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2014, 02:05:47 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 13, 2014, 11:39:20 PM
Think there are a good few reforms in the state bodies that can yield this extra funding for lesser waged folk instead of hitting my pocket more!

There isn't really this scope. Services could be better run to provide better service, sp that people wound not die unnecessarily in the health service or ensuring that everyone is literate, but there isn't really a vast amount of savings at this point. The money given to people who do not work for the government substantially exceeds the amount spent on those who do. The savings am may well lie in ensuring that money goes to people who need it, and not to those who do not.
There is the scope actually!
I haven't the figure - but in the health service for example , we had the merger of three health boards nationally and little redundancies. Some folk were moved into sections that required staff, but from information I had at the time , a large amount of positions were covered in duplicate if not triplicate!

I take it you are talking about the southern civil service an not the one in the six counties?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 14, 2014, 04:40:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2014, 01:26:18 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2014, 03:27:38 AM
I think there's still massive savings to be had from introducing modern technology in the public service. Govt seem to be scared of that since the ppars debacle though.

PPARS was an attempt to record a system where nobody new what was going on, using an IT system where by definition you have to program the thing according to some known approach. Knowing what is going on is a good start, even if you never introduced further IT. But if you were working in a substantial job in IT in the public service your salary would have been cut by 20%, while IT salaries generally might have had a slight increase, if you were any good you'd just leave and go to work elsewhere.

There are savings to be made, but a large chunk of public spending is in education, where class size is already pretty much the highest in Europe. Health is definitely inefficient, but seems to resist improvement.
Ppars and pulse - can't rem which one was the bigger disaster - though both were disastrously run, poorly specced, paid out way too much in consultancy costs and took way to long to deliver - though at least pulse is mostly operational now!

One of these projects was based on a model in oz. The Aussies told them that their system was not fit for purpose. But this didn't stop the junkets and project !

Your example is correct on a poor spend of taxpayers money. But it's not just automation of systems that can give serious costs savings.

Identification and definition of roles and proper perf management and managemt in general.
Proper governance of finance and people.
The front line services not really to blame - more the back room officials who are doing half nothing.

Stop paying for consultants to write fence sitting reports. Stop trying to max out budget spend each year in order to win the same size budget the next year.

I've seen most of these wastage's myself first hand.

These ruin the good work of some of the productive civil service departments and their good people!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 14, 2014, 04:47:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2014, 04:25:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 14, 2014, 02:09:33 PM


I think there is. The following is an extreme example of this but there is much scope.

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1023055.shtml (http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1023055.shtml)

Ireland's top civil servant retires at 57 on €713,000 package and future cost of millions

Normally a headline figure of a €713,000 pension package translates into a pension of just over €35,000 per annum. But in this case the man got:    

In addition to an annual pension of €142,670, McCarthy received a once-off lump sum of €428,011. He also got a full year's pension as a special severance payment of €142,670.

These things may need to be changed, but even if the 100 people involved have changes it will not support the several hundred thousand people should not pay tax. My point related to savings not being proportionate to the expectation that seems to be abroad that everyone can have free water, no USC etc.


QuoteThe usual spin from Government, Civil Service and even much of the Opposition is that these are legally binding deals.

Any contract is binding, if you do not want a deal then do not agree it, reneging on it is corruption pure and simple.

Quotehe scumbags introduced a pension levy on private funds. This is a wealth tax on pensions that people have actually funded themselves. The above pension wasn't funded, i.e. there was no fund, so the levy doesn't apply. So where does the money come from, directly from the taxpayer of course. If they wanted to they could have introduced a levy on unfunded pensions to match the one on funded pensions. This would have been fair, and legal, but of course the only people affected would have been Senior Civil Servants, Senators and TDs.

In summary we have a situation whereby people who fund the own pensions pay an extra tax, while TDs & Civil Servants who don't fund their own whopping pensions, pay nothing.

All of this ignores that public pensions were reduced also. 


QuoteBut that is not all. Read this also from the above link:

Unless the existing pension system is changed, any pay increases successors in his position will get, he will get the same increases on his pension.

Just as old age pension recipients do not receive the pension fixed at what they get when they are 65, but have increases broadly in line with wage trends.

QuoteThe current system is a shameful one. It was devised by politicians and senior civil servants who are the main beneficiaries.

It wasn't secret or concealed in any way. People were happy to vote for these politicians.
[/quote]
I'd not disagree with you that water charges need to be paid, but getting rid of the wastage in ott bonuses, pensions etc would free up a lot of money to go towards fixing water pipes at least - and passing on cost reduction to end water users.

Maybe create a civil service 'bonus tax' or pension tax to recoup this money - as you are correct about it being contractually agreed and not readily taken from civil servants.
However a tax on their additional income is not contractually disallowed I believe and is a way out of this!!

Maybe inda could set up a 'civil service pensions & bonuses taxation dept' ! ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 14, 2014, 06:00:15 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2014, 03:42:17 PM
You're the only one rabbiting on about a wealth tax!!!

No, you are.

You are the one who keeps mentioning wealth distribution. The only way to do this in Ireland (short of striking oil and actually not giving it away for free) is via a wealth tax.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 14, 2014, 06:05:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2014, 04:25:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 14, 2014, 02:09:33 PM


I think there is. The following is an extreme example of this but there is much scope.

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1023055.shtml (http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1023055.shtml)

Ireland's top civil servant retires at 57 on €713,000 package and future cost of millions

Normally a headline figure of a €713,000 pension package translates into a pension of just over €35,000 per annum. But in this case the man got:    

In addition to an annual pension of €142,670, McCarthy received a once-off lump sum of €428,011. He also got a full year's pension as a special severance payment of €142,670.

These things may need to be changed, but even if the 100 people involved have changes it will not support the several hundred thousand people should not pay tax. My point related to savings not being proportionate to the expectation that seems to be abroad that everyone can have free water, no USC etc.


QuoteThe usual spin from Government, Civil Service and even much of the Opposition is that these are legally binding deals.

Any contract is binding, if you do not want a deal then do not agree it, reneging on it is corruption pure and simple.

Quotehe scumbags introduced a pension levy on private funds. This is a wealth tax on pensions that people have actually funded themselves. The above pension wasn't funded, i.e. there was no fund, so the levy doesn't apply. So where does the money come from, directly from the taxpayer of course. If they wanted to they could have introduced a levy on unfunded pensions to match the one on funded pensions. This would have been fair, and legal, but of course the only people affected would have been Senior Civil Servants, Senators and TDs.

In summary we have a situation whereby people who fund the own pensions pay an extra tax, while TDs & Civil Servants who don't fund their own whopping pensions, pay nothing.

All of this ignores that public pensions were reduced also. 


QuoteBut that is not all. Read this also from the above link:

Unless the existing pension system is changed, any pay increases successors in his position will get, he will get the same increases on his pension.

Just as old age pension recipients do not receive the pension fixed at what they get when they are 65, but have increases broadly in line with wage trends.

QuoteThe current system is a shameful one. It was devised by politicians and senior civil servants who are the main beneficiaries.

It wasn't secret or concealed in any way. People were happy to vote for these politicians.
[/quote]

My post was comparing the treatment of people who pay for their own pensions versus those who don't pay for their own pensions (Top Civil Servants & Politicians). That latter introduced a tax on the former but left themselves out of it.

Secondly you comment on a contract is missing the point. They introduced a levy on privately funded pensions, and they could easily introduce a levy on their own unfunded pensions. That would be legal and fair. Your point on their pensions being cut doesn't was as they never funded these pensions in the first place.

NB I am not talking about the old age pension or indeed the pensions of most civil servants. I am merely referring to those pensions worth oover €100,000 p/a that these people awarded themselves, to be taken entirely from the taxpayer.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 14, 2014, 06:28:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 14, 2014, 06:00:15 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2014, 03:42:17 PM
You're the only one rabbiting on about a wealth tax!!!

No, you are.

You are the one who keeps mentioning wealth distribution. The only way to do this in Ireland (short of striking oil and actually not giving it away for free) is via a wealth tax.

I am the one talking about a wealth tax??

I see.

You might as well show me where I said that so because I can't seem to recall it.

In fact, I've explicitly clarified that I wasn't talking about a wealth tax on two occasions:

QuoteJust so as we're clear, I think that the more you earn, the more tax you should pay - nothing about a wealth tax or anything else.

Quote
I was not advocating a wealth tax a described by you

so you're either on the WUM or just plain slow - I'll leave you to decide that for yourself


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 14, 2014, 06:41:08 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2014, 06:28:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 14, 2014, 06:00:15 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2014, 03:42:17 PM
You're the only one rabbiting on about a wealth tax!!!

No, you are.

You are the one who keeps mentioning wealth distribution. The only way to do this in Ireland (short of striking oil and actually not giving it away for free) is via a wealth tax.

I am the one talking about a wealth tax??

I see.

You might as well show me where I said that so because I can't seem to recall it.

In fact, I've explicitly clarified that I wasn't talking about a wealth tax on two occasions:

QuoteJust so as we're clear, I think that the more you earn, the more tax you should pay - nothing about a wealth tax or anything else.

Quote
I was not advocating a wealth tax a described by you

so you're either on the WUM or just plain slow - I'll leave you to decide that for yourself

You said that our tax system is based on 'wealth distribution'.

This is a tax system which has been adjusted to service a €64 Billion Bailout of our crashed banking system and you called it a system based on 'wealth distribution'.

Since we as a state have no collective wealth to distribute, the only possibly way to achieve your 'wealth distribution' would be Wealth Tax. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 14, 2014, 06:48:17 PM
Seriously, give it up! He's made it clear a long time ago that he used the wrong terminology and wasn't referring to a wealth tax.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 14, 2014, 06:54:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 14, 2014, 06:48:17 PM
Seriously, give it up! He's made it clear a long time ago that he used the wrong terminology and wasn't referring to a wealth tax.

This is what he said: "You now apply your definition to wealth distribution".







Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 14, 2014, 07:37:20 PM
also wanted to add - I read that private wells and septic tanks would be deemed property of irish water in the future and subject to water tax.
this would in effect mean that rainwater is also considered property of the government.

alan Kelly is supposed to renew Irelands exemption in January - it's in everyone's interest to make sure he does.

to you who think it's about paying a tax theres a lot more to it than that. wake up.


Here's that full article.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/gene-kerrigan-so-this-is-our-democracy-at-work-30833924.html

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 14, 2014, 07:39:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 14, 2014, 07:37:20 PM
also wanted to add - I read that private wells and septic tanks would be deemed property of irish water in the future and subject to water tax.
this would in effect mean that rainwater is also considered property of the government.

alan Kelly is supposed to renew Irelands exemption in January - it's in everyone's interest to make sure he does.

to you who think it's about paying a tax theres a lot more to it than that. wake up.
Tell us where you read that.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on December 14, 2014, 07:55:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 14, 2014, 06:54:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 14, 2014, 06:48:17 PM
Seriously, give it up! He's made it clear a long time ago that he used the wrong terminology and wasn't referring to a wealth tax.

This is what he said: "You now apply your definition to wealth distribution".

Do you actually have a point to make muppet?? It seems to me that you're like a dog with a bone except that you've lost the bone and are now simply chasing your own tail.

I was defining (as I previously said, perhaps incorrectly) "wealth distribution" (not wealth tax as you seem to think) in terms of higher earners paying higher taxes in the following context:

Say in System A you have a person earning 500k who pays 40% income tax and it costs him 150k to live, that leaves him with 150k excess income which accumulates annually to become wealth.

In System B, the same person pays 50% income tax (meaning lower earners pay less tax) - he now has only 100k excess income which accumulates annually to become wealth.

Perhaps it's incorrect to call this concept of increased taxation at the high end "wealth distribution" but that's what I termed it as and this is what I meant. Not wealth tax. Not Robert Mugabe. Nothing else. Only this.

This will be my last post on this.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 14, 2014, 08:13:12 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2014, 07:55:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 14, 2014, 06:54:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 14, 2014, 06:48:17 PM
Seriously, give it up! He's made it clear a long time ago that he used the wrong terminology and wasn't referring to a wealth tax.

This is what he said: "You now apply your definition to wealth distribution".

Do you actually have a point to make muppet?? It seems to me that you're like a dog with a bone except that you've lost the bone and are now simply chasing your own tail.

I was defining (as I previously said, perhaps incorrectly) "wealth distribution" (not wealth tax as you seem to think) in terms of higher earners paying higher taxes in the following context:

Say in System A you have a person earning 500k who pays 40% income tax and it costs him 150k to live, that leaves him with 150k excess income which accumulates annually to become wealth.

In System B, the same person pays 50% income tax (meaning lower earners pay less tax) - he now has only 100k excess income which accumulates annually to become wealth.

Perhaps it's incorrect to call this concept of increased taxation at the high end "wealth distribution" but that's what I termed it as and this is what I meant. Not wealth tax. Not Robert Mugabe. Nothing else. Only this.

This will be my last post on this.

You are correct. What you are describing has nothing to do with wealth distribution. It has everything to do with income tax.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 14, 2014, 08:26:16 PM
Moving the conversation on from the above.......

Here are the tax distribution figures for 2009: http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/publications/statistical/archive/2010/income-distribution-statistics.pdf (http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/publications/statistical/archive/2010/income-distribution-statistics.pdf)

Go to page 6.

Over €275,000 earnings, 10,677 (number of tax cases), 0.50 (% of total earners), 6,011.08 (income) 7.33 (% of total) 1,738.05 (tax) 16.37 (% of total).

So in 2009 those earning over €275,000 make up 0.5% of the taxpayers and pay 16.37% of all income taxes.
Those earning over €100,000 make up about 5% of the taxpayers and they pay about 46% of all income taxes.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 15, 2014, 04:18:38 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 14, 2014, 07:39:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 14, 2014, 07:37:20 PM
also wanted to add - I read that private wells and septic tanks would be deemed property of irish water in the future and subject to water tax.
this would in effect mean that rainwater is also considered property of the government.

alan Kelly is supposed to renew Irelands exemption in January - it's in everyone's interest to make sure he does.

to you who think it's about paying a tax theres a lot more to it than that. wake up.
Tell us where you read that.

I just did. please see link on previous post

also as far as private wells go

"whereby they must connect to the network when Irish Water eventually comes to the area"

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2014102100052?opendocument
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: gallsman on December 15, 2014, 01:54:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 15, 2014, 04:18:38 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 14, 2014, 07:39:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 14, 2014, 07:37:20 PM
also wanted to add - I read that private wells and septic tanks would be deemed property of irish water in the future and subject to water tax.
this would in effect mean that rainwater is also considered property of the government.

alan Kelly is supposed to renew Irelands exemption in January - it's in everyone's interest to make sure he does.

to you who think it's about paying a tax theres a lot more to it than that. wake up.
Tell us where you read that.

I just did. please see link on previous post

also as far as private wells go

"whereby they must connect to the network when Irish Water eventually comes to the area"

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2014102100052?opendocument

"The "water conservation grant" goes to everyone - even those with private wells and septic tanks. The purpose of this is to get even these people registered. Michael Fitzmaurice TD told the Dail of evidence of a new planning requirement for private wells, "whereby they must connect to the network when Irish Water eventually comes to the area"

That's what the article says. Nothing about deeming anything property of Irish Water. Spinning shite as usual.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 15, 2014, 06:36:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 15, 2014, 04:18:38 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 14, 2014, 07:39:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 14, 2014, 07:37:20 PM
also wanted to add - I read that private wells and septic tanks would be deemed property of irish water in the future and subject to water tax.
this would in effect mean that rainwater is also considered property of the government.

alan Kelly is supposed to renew Irelands exemption in January - it's in everyone's interest to make sure he does.

to you who think it's about paying a tax theres a lot more to it than that. wake up.
Tell us where you read that.

I just did. please see link on previous post

also as far as private wells go

"whereby they must connect to the network when Irish Water eventually comes to the area"

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2014102100052?opendocument
I think you've missed the point here. Read the full quote again:

"Where there is no supply of water from Irish Water and people are boring private wells, a new requirement has been included in their planning permissions by local councils whereby they must connect to the network when Irish Water eventually comes to the area."

Seems clear to me that it's the property that is to connect to the network, not the well.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 15, 2014, 07:03:31 PM
So they must connect the property ( who pays? - looks like the householder)
Plus then they are liable to pay water tax.

That's a bad deal given that most well water is less polluted and better than the water scheme these folk have to join!

On the subject of septic tanks - these are to be registered alright!
Why - well the line touted is to ensure they are not leaking effluent etc ( which I think is a good idea  but a bit of a joke considering leaks and effluent disposal throughout the country) but again this registration is to create a tax on sewage tanks.

I'd like to see proper sewage systems in place. The tax will pay for inspections ( hope this isn't exorbitant and is only to cover inspection costs). The folk with private wells should be left alone.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 04:04:36 PM
Our great president signs up without a whimper

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2014/1228/669307-president-signs-water-services-bill-2014/

Fail to see the point in this role now.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 04:05:18 PM
and this is why we need water charges

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tribunal-fiasco-politicians-and-developers-will-be-paid-100m-30865794.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 28, 2014, 05:19:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 04:05:18 PM
and this is why we need water charges

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tribunal-fiasco-politicians-and-developers-will-be-paid-100m-30865794.html

Nope, we 'need' water charges because we socialised the banks debt and agreed to introduce them when we signed the bailout deal with the troika.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 28, 2014, 06:52:21 PM
The Uachtarain signs loads of Bills into Law. He can only call the Council of State to advise him if he's concerned about Constitutionality of a Bill. Not because SF or loony lefties think he should.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 29, 2014, 02:29:26 AM
 ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 29, 2014, 04:33:25 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 28, 2014, 05:19:10 PM
Nope, we 'need' water charges because we socialised the banks debt and agreed to introduce them when we signed the bailout deal with the troika.

So the premise that we need water charges to fix the leaky pipes and deliver a world class water service is a crock of shite then? It's only to satisfy the troika?

and for all you who think the fees are miniscule. What happens to any commodity when it's fee based? Prices can be raised at will. But you are happy enough to go along with it because you can afford it.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on December 29, 2014, 08:12:41 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 29, 2014, 04:33:25 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 28, 2014, 05:19:10 PM
Nope, we 'need' water charges because we socialised the banks debt and agreed to introduce them when we signed the bailout deal with the troika.

So the premise that we need water charges to fix the leaky pipes and deliver a world class water service is a crock of shite then? It's only to satisfy the troika?

and for all you who think the fees are miniscule. What happens to any commodity when it's fee based? Prices can be raised at will. But you are happy enough to go along with it because you can afford it.

(https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m8do7xrJIG1qf8btso1_400.gif&f=1)

http://irishpoliticsandmedia.blogspot.ie/2013/12/text-of-fianna-fail-agreement-with.html (http://irishpoliticsandmedia.blogspot.ie/2013/12/text-of-fianna-fail-agreement-with.html)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 29, 2014, 06:43:33 PM
Joan brutal is making inda kinny look great right now!

She will kill the Labour Party singlehandedly

Gilmore was a good politician and decent man and the clowns got rid of him!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 30, 2014, 08:31:21 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 04:04:36 PM
Our great president signs up without a whimper

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2014/1228/669307-president-signs-water-services-bill-2014/

Fail to see the point in this role now.
You clearly didn't understand it in the first place.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 30, 2014, 09:47:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 30, 2014, 08:31:21 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 28, 2014, 04:04:36 PM
Our great president signs up without a whimper

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2014/1228/669307-president-signs-water-services-bill-2014/

Fail to see the point in this role now.
You clearly didn't understand it in the first place.

+1.
Some people think he's some kind of CEO or the like.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 12, 2015, 03:48:18 AM
Good article on the start of the next election. The cuter hoors out there will try to bluff their way back in by saying nothing and hope the electorate buy it.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-man-with-a-neck-of-cold-blue-steel-30897855.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on January 18, 2015, 11:23:41 AM
Leo Varadkar has said that he is gay.
Had heard that in the past few months. Fair play to him, hope this doesn't start to define him "Leo Varadkar, Ireland's first openly gay minister..."
I think the country has moved on enough that it won't really be an issue for the vast majority
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trileacman on January 18, 2015, 12:26:57 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 18, 2015, 11:23:41 AM
Leo Varadkar has said that he is gay.
Had heard that in the past few months. Fair play to him, hope this doesn't start to define him "Leo Varadkar, Ireland's first openly gay minister..."
I think the country has moved on enough that it won't really be an issue for the vast majority

I disagree, I think it's a announcement that will torch any ambitions he had of being leader of FG and/or Tainaste or Taoiseach.

And that disappoints me, he's a grounded, young politician who doesn't use the wanton hyperbole of opposition TD's but not full of the weasel words of the reigning parties. If he ran in my constituency I'd vote for him and I would have been glad to see him make it into a position of real power because he seems to have some of the rarest commodities in politics; perspective and common sense.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on January 18, 2015, 12:32:15 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 18, 2015, 12:26:57 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 18, 2015, 11:23:41 AM
Leo Varadkar has said that he is gay.
Had heard that in the past few months. Fair play to him, hope this doesn't start to define him "Leo Varadkar, Ireland's first openly gay minister..."
I think the country has moved on enough that it won't really be an issue for the vast majority

I disagree, I think it's a announcement that will torch any ambitions he had of being leader of FG and/or Tainaste or Taoiseach.

And that disappoints me, he's a grounded, young politician who doesn't use the wanton hyperbole of opposition TD's but not full of the weasel words of the reigning parties. If he ran in my constituency I'd vote for him and I would have been glad to see him make it into a position of real power because he seems to have some of the rarest commodities in politics; perspective and common sense.

It won't change his ability to become leader in much of meaningful way. The world where that wasn't possible is gone now. He could be leader before the election after next comes around, he's clearly the best candidate in my eyes.

If Gerry can be a party leader..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Shamrock Shore on January 18, 2015, 01:57:23 PM
If Enda can be Taoiseach........
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on January 18, 2015, 02:31:32 PM
Our health minister up here is just away with the fairies
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 18, 2015, 03:06:52 PM
If this was a diversion tactic it's fairly lame. Please get back on topic and sort out the health crisis in the country and stop worrying about your plans as future Taoiseach.

He must be planning out the night of the longs knives for Enda if this is a necessary step to his coronation.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 18, 2015, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 12, 2015, 03:48:18 AM
Good article on the start of the next election. The cuter hoors out there will try to bluff their way back in by saying nothing and hope the electorate buy it.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-man-with-a-neck-of-cold-blue-steel-30897855.html

Good to see you are a fan of Kerrigan: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-old-sinn-fein-responses-just-arent-working-this-time-30693165.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-old-sinn-fein-responses-just-arent-working-this-time-30693165.html)

I'm not.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 18, 2015, 03:20:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 12, 2015, 03:48:18 AM
Good article on the start of the next election. The cuter hoors out there will try to bluff their way back in by saying nothing and hope the electorate buy it.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-man-with-a-neck-of-cold-blue-steel-30897855.html

Good to see you are a fan of Kerrigan: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-old-sinn-fein-responses-just-arent-working-this-time-30693165.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-old-sinn-fein-responses-just-arent-working-this-time-30693165.html)

I'm not.

What's your point muppet???
If an article makes sense I don't care who writes it. I've agreed with Kevin Myers once or twice..

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 18, 2015, 03:34:02 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 18, 2015, 03:20:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 12, 2015, 03:48:18 AM
Good article on the start of the next election. The cuter hoors out there will try to bluff their way back in by saying nothing and hope the electorate buy it.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-man-with-a-neck-of-cold-blue-steel-30897855.html

Good to see you are a fan of Kerrigan: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-old-sinn-fein-responses-just-arent-working-this-time-30693165.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-old-sinn-fein-responses-just-arent-working-this-time-30693165.html)

I'm not.

What's your point muppet???
If an article makes sense I don't care who writes it. I've agreed with Kevin Myers once or twice..

If you overtly support a political party, as you do, cherry-picking his articles is so obviously biased it is pathetic.

When Kerrigan agrees with your prejudices, you will agree with him. When he doesn't, you will disagree or worse say nothing. In conclusion it doesn't matter a toss what he says. His articles are almost always rants against someone. So you are impressed when he rants against your party's enemy and when he rants against your party, you say 'what's your point Muppet' and ignore the article.  ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 18, 2015, 03:45:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 03:34:02 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 18, 2015, 03:20:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 12, 2015, 03:48:18 AM
Good article on the start of the next election. The cuter hoors out there will try to bluff their way back in by saying nothing and hope the electorate buy it.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-man-with-a-neck-of-cold-blue-steel-30897855.html

Good to see you are a fan of Kerrigan: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-old-sinn-fein-responses-just-arent-working-this-time-30693165.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-old-sinn-fein-responses-just-arent-working-this-time-30693165.html)

I'm not.

What's your point muppet???
If an article makes sense I don't care who writes it. I've agreed with Kevin Myers once or twice..

If you overtly support a political party, as you do, cherry-picking his articles is so obviously biased it is pathetic.

When Kerrigan agrees with your prejudices, you will agree with him. When he doesn't, you will disagree or worse say nothing. In conclusion it doesn't matter a toss what he says. His articles are almost always rants against someone. So you are impressed when he rants against your party's enemy and when he rants against your party, you say 'what's your point Muppet' and ignore the article.  ;D

Which political party have I overtly stated that I support? Please back up with up with evidence.

"My prejudices". You're a comedian alright. It's called an opinion for people who agree with you?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 18, 2015, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 18, 2015, 03:45:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 03:34:02 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 18, 2015, 03:20:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 12, 2015, 03:48:18 AM
Good article on the start of the next election. The cuter hoors out there will try to bluff their way back in by saying nothing and hope the electorate buy it.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-man-with-a-neck-of-cold-blue-steel-30897855.html

Good to see you are a fan of Kerrigan: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-old-sinn-fein-responses-just-arent-working-this-time-30693165.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-old-sinn-fein-responses-just-arent-working-this-time-30693165.html)

I'm not.

What's your point muppet???
If an article makes sense I don't care who writes it. I've agreed with Kevin Myers once or twice..

If you overtly support a political party, as you do, cherry-picking his articles is so obviously biased it is pathetic.

When Kerrigan agrees with your prejudices, you will agree with him. When he doesn't, you will disagree or worse say nothing. In conclusion it doesn't matter a toss what he says. His articles are almost always rants against someone. So you are impressed when he rants against your party's enemy and when he rants against your party, you say 'what's your point Muppet' and ignore the article.  ;D

Which political party have I overtly stated that I support? Please back up with up with evidence.

"My prejudices". You're a comedian alright. It's called an opinion for people who agree with you?

Who the hell are you trying to fool?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Since you started here you have tried to slaughter 'The Stoops', Fine Gael, Labour, FF, Unionists, Foreigners etc, while always defending the Shinners.

Here is some of the latter, I hardly need to point to the former, this thread alone is full of it.

Quote from: foxcommander on May 26, 2014, 09:03:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 26, 2014, 07:52:28 PM
the respectable parties have no choice either.
Respectable? FF/FG/Lab?

You havin' a laugh?

These continual snide remarks about SF are getting a little tiresome.

Quote from: foxcommander on May 15, 2014, 07:36:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 15, 2014, 07:22:57 PM
Hmmmm... dark forces - check, beard - check...

Clutching at straws to discredit Adams again I see....  ::)

Then you say things like this:

Quote from: foxcommander on August 07, 2014, 10:25:25 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 07, 2014, 09:56:17 PM
Sure the Irish public detested the Rising at the time. Its importance has always been openly questioned. Well, since Dev's idyllic image of catholic parochial Ireland died sometime in the 1970s and 1980s.

lots of West brits / free-staters were happy enough waving union jacks. sure how many creamed themselves when Lizzy visited?
Couldn't bend over far enough.

Then there is the regular bashing of Rory McIlroy, Bob Geldof, Irish Rugby and anything else that doesn't fit the usual stereotype, along with the completely blind defence of Sean Brady and the Catholic Church in Ireland.

If you happened to drop in here and read a chunk ofyour posts, who would you think you supported?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 18, 2015, 05:19:41 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 18, 2015, 03:45:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 03:34:02 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 18, 2015, 03:20:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 12, 2015, 03:48:18 AM
Good article on the start of the next election. The cuter hoors out there will try to bluff their way back in by saying nothing and hope the electorate buy it.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-man-with-a-neck-of-cold-blue-steel-30897855.html

Good to see you are a fan of Kerrigan: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-old-sinn-fein-responses-just-arent-working-this-time-30693165.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-old-sinn-fein-responses-just-arent-working-this-time-30693165.html)

I'm not.

What's your point muppet???
If an article makes sense I don't care who writes it. I've agreed with Kevin Myers once or twice..

If you overtly support a political party, as you do, cherry-picking his articles is so obviously biased it is pathetic.

When Kerrigan agrees with your prejudices, you will agree with him. When he doesn't, you will disagree or worse say nothing. In conclusion it doesn't matter a toss what he says. His articles are almost always rants against someone. So you are impressed when he rants against your party's enemy and when he rants against your party, you say 'what's your point Muppet' and ignore the article.  ;D

Which political party have I overtly stated that I support? Please back up with up with evidence.

"My prejudices". You're a comedian alright. It's called an opinion for people who agree with you?

Who the hell are you trying to fool?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Since you started here you have tried to slaughter 'The Stoops', Fine Gael, Labour, FF, Unionists, Foreigners etc, while always defending the Shinners.

Here is some of the latter, I hardly need to point to the former, this thread alone is full of it.

Quote from: foxcommander on May 26, 2014, 09:03:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 26, 2014, 07:52:28 PM
the respectable parties have no choice either.
Respectable? FF/FG/Lab?

You havin' a laugh?

These continual snide remarks about SF are getting a little tiresome.

Quote from: foxcommander on May 15, 2014, 07:36:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 15, 2014, 07:22:57 PM
Hmmmm... dark forces - check, beard - check...

Clutching at straws to discredit Adams again I see....  ::)

Then you say things like this:

Quote from: foxcommander on August 07, 2014, 10:25:25 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 07, 2014, 09:56:17 PM
Sure the Irish public detested the Rising at the time. Its importance has always been openly questioned. Well, since Dev's idyllic image of catholic parochial Ireland died sometime in the 1970s and 1980s.

lots of West brits / free-staters were happy enough waving union jacks. sure how many creamed themselves when Lizzy visited?
Couldn't bend over far enough.

Then there is the regular bashing of Rory McIlroy, Bob Geldof, Irish Rugby and anything else that doesn't fit the usual stereotype, along with the completely blind defence of Sean Brady and the Catholic Church in Ireland.

If you happened to drop in here and read a chunk ofyour posts, who would you think you supported?

What FF/FG/Labour have done to the 26 counties they deserve every bit of flack they get. Do you disagree? SF have not been in government so I can't chastise their policies. yet.

Hands up if you like unionists!!

So by not (in your words) slaughtering SF that makes me "Overtly" supportive. What about the Independents? I've said nothing much about them.
I was only calling out Maguire's defence of the SDLP. I wasn't endorsing Adams.

And I support SF if I don't like Bob Geldof and Rory McIlroy. Where's that logic from? I don't like rugby as I'm a GAA supporter.

But go on with your theories. I'm flattered you put in so much effort to 'out' me  :-*
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 18, 2015, 05:27:32 PM
You slagged off everyone, and defended SF.

Good man. You have us all fooled.  ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 18, 2015, 06:37:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 05:27:32 PM
You slagged off everyone, and defended SF.

Good man. You have us all fooled.  ;D

You're making stuff up now to justify your previous post with absolutely no evidence.
Good job Miss Marple.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 18, 2015, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 18, 2015, 06:37:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 05:27:32 PM
You slagged off everyone, and defended SF.

Good man. You have us all fooled.  ;D

You're making stuff up now to justify your previous post with absolutely no evidence.
Good job Miss Marple.

I posted the evidence.

But you have us all fooled.  ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 02:20:53 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 18, 2015, 06:37:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 05:27:32 PM
You slagged off everyone, and defended SF.

Good man. You have us all fooled.  ;D

You're making stuff up now to justify your previous post with absolutely no evidence.
Good job Miss Marple.

I posted the evidence.

But you have us all fooled.  ;)

None of your 'evidence' shows I have endorsed SF. Your third example isn't even relevant to your accusation.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 19, 2015, 10:29:46 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 02:20:53 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 18, 2015, 06:37:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 05:27:32 PM
You slagged off everyone, and defended SF.

Good man. You have us all fooled.  ;D

You're making stuff up now to justify your previous post with absolutely no evidence.
Good job Miss Marple.

I posted the evidence.

But you have us all fooled.  ;)

None of your 'evidence' shows I have endorsed SF. Your third example isn't even relevant to your accusation.

Is supporting SF an 'accusation'?

You have attacked everyone else and defended Garry and SF.

But like I said, you have us all fooled.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 19, 2015, 10:57:06 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 10:29:46 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 02:20:53 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 18, 2015, 06:37:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 18, 2015, 05:27:32 PM
You slagged off everyone, and defended SF.

Good man. You have us all fooled.  ;D

You're making stuff up now to justify your previous post with absolutely no evidence.
Good job Miss Marple.

I posted the evidence.

But you have us all fooled.  ;)

None of your 'evidence' shows I have endorsed SF. Your third example isn't even relevant to your accusation.

Is supporting SF an 'accusation'?

You have attacked everyone else and defended Garry and SF.

But like I said, you have us all fooled.
muppet
what the fcuk has yours and foxys personal row got to do with fg and leo here?

I don't agree with all foxy says but agree with some, I don't agree with all you say but agree with some - but everyone has a diff opinion. no matter what you feel about it.

anyhow, having met leo a few times I think he is the best fg have got. maybe some would liken him to coveney but imo Leo is more genuine.  ok ive never had conv with coveney so its not first hand - but what he has said over the past few years is more of the same political rubbish - but Leo often doesn't stick to that script which is why I like him.

as for that he is gay...so what. I also hope it isn't used by slimey fg as some kind of totem pole.
When a friend of mine 'came out' years ago - my response was ' that's grand, more birds for me then' !

Leo would be in my own handpicked cherrypicking selection of the best TD's for government.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 19, 2015, 11:10:34 AM
Leo and Noonan are about the only 2 worthy of mention.

That brings FG's performance in Government up to an 'E' at best imho. A clear fail. And tbh I don't believe we have a normal Government anymore since the bailout, so it takes some talent to fail in something you are not really participating.

For the record I would give the FF/PD Government an N.G. and kick them out of the school.

Calling out Fox is as necessary as calling out the FG fundamentalist mayogodhelpus was. His posts are pretending to be a normal punter but are consistently biased in favour of one party. We should have a thread on its own for the lackeys so they can have it out among themselves about how good their Gerry/Enda/Mícheál/Joan etc is.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on January 19, 2015, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 11:10:34 AM
Leo and Noonan are about the only 2 worthy of mention.

That brings FG's performance in Government up to an 'E' at best imho. A clear fail. And tbh I don't believe we have a normal Government anymore since the bailout, so it takes some talent to fail in something you are not really participating.

For the record I would give the FF/PD Government an N.G. and kick them out of the school.

Calling out Fox is as necessary as calling out the FG fundamentalist mayogodhelpus was. His posts are pretending to be a normal punter but are consistently biased in favour of one party. We should have a thread on its own for the lackeys so they can have it out among themselves about how good their Gerry/Enda/Mícheál/Joan etc is.

Your posts exhibit every bit as much anti SF bias as fox's do in favour of them.  Are you a 'normal punter' or does that make you an 'anti-SF fundamentalist'?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on January 19, 2015, 01:55:30 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 18, 2015, 12:26:57 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 18, 2015, 11:23:41 AM
Leo Varadkar has said that he is gay.
Had heard that in the past few months. Fair play to him, hope this doesn't start to define him "Leo Varadkar, Ireland's first openly gay minister..."
I think the country has moved on enough that it won't really be an issue for the vast majority

I disagree, I think it's a announcement that will torch any ambitions he had of being leader of FG and/or Tainaste or Taoiseach.

And that disappoints me, he's a grounded, young politician who doesn't use the wanton hyperbole of opposition TD's but not full of the weasel words of the reigning parties. If he ran in my constituency I'd vote for him and I would have been glad to see him make it into a position of real power because he seems to have some of the rarest commodities in politics; perspective and common sense.
I wouldn't say so. In the present liberal climate, being honest counts for more than being gay.
Remember that David Norris was the early frontrunner in the last presidential election. He lost credibility when he came across badly in a number of television debates and he got caught up in a number of other controversies as well but his sexuality had nothing to do with his poor showing in the poll.
Whether or not Leo will be a viable candidate for the FG leadership remains to be seen. Enda isn't going away any time soon and I can't see any of his cabinet taking him on just yet.
I think the electorate will judge Leo on his performance in the in his present department and wouldn't get unduly excited about his sexual inclinations.
BTW, I'm certain he didn't get the Health gig because Enda felt he would make a success of it, quite the reverse./
Leo knows he got the proverbial poisoned chalice and there are interesting times ahead.
I kinda like Leo, a bit of an opinionated prat, but probably the most able in the cabinet but he'll have more to worry about than his sexuality if he is to stay the course with the man from Milebush.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 19, 2015, 01:55:50 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2015, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 11:10:34 AM
Leo and Noonan are about the only 2 worthy of mention.

That brings FG's performance in Government up to an 'E' at best imho. A clear fail. And tbh I don't believe we have a normal Government anymore since the bailout, so it takes some talent to fail in something you are not really participating.

For the record I would give the FF/PD Government an N.G. and kick them out of the school.

Calling out Fox is as necessary as calling out the FG fundamentalist mayogodhelpus was. His posts are pretending to be a normal punter but are consistently biased in favour of one party. We should have a thread on its own for the lackeys so they can have it out among themselves about how good their Gerry/Enda/Mícheál/Joan etc is.

Your posts exhibit every bit as much anti SF bias as fox's do in favour of them.  Are you a 'normal punter' or does that make you an 'anti-SF fundamentalist'?
that's actually quite true

my posts will show I despise practically all of them - which isn't v healthy or good either if I read it back.
the country isn't in that bad a state, but it is in spite of the gov and civil service rather than because of them imo
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 19, 2015, 01:56:55 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 19, 2015, 01:55:30 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 18, 2015, 12:26:57 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 18, 2015, 11:23:41 AM
Leo Varadkar has said that he is gay.
Had heard that in the past few months. Fair play to him, hope this doesn't start to define him "Leo Varadkar, Ireland's first openly gay minister..."
I think the country has moved on enough that it won't really be an issue for the vast majority

I disagree, I think it's a announcement that will torch any ambitions he had of being leader of FG and/or Tainaste or Taoiseach.

And that disappoints me, he's a grounded, young politician who doesn't use the wanton hyperbole of opposition TD's but not full of the weasel words of the reigning parties. If he ran in my constituency I'd vote for him and I would have been glad to see him make it into a position of real power because he seems to have some of the rarest commodities in politics; perspective and common sense.
I wouldn't say so. In the present liberal climate, being honest counts for more than being gay.
Remember that David Norris was the early frontrunner in the last presidential election. He lost credibility when he came across badly in a number of television debates and he got caught up in a number of other controversies as well but his sexuality had nothing to do with his poor showing in the poll.
Whether or not Leo will be a viable candidate for the FG leadership remains to be seen. Enda isn't going away any time soon and I can't see any of his cabinet taking him on just yet.
I think the electorate will judge Leo on his performance in the in his present department and wouldn't get unduly excited about his sexual inclinations.
BTW, I'm certain he didn't get the Health gig because Enda felt he would make a success of it, quite the reverse./
Leo knows he got the proverbial poisoned chalice and there are interesting times ahead.
I kinda like Leo, a bit of an opinionated prat, but probably the most able in the cabinet
but he'll have more to worry about than his sexuality if he is to stay the course with the man from Milebush.
spot on here imo
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Declan on January 19, 2015, 02:05:31 PM
Quotebut probably the most able in the cabinet

That's like being the tallest of the seven dwarfs - not really an accomplishment ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on January 19, 2015, 02:11:50 PM
Leo's coming-out has treated us to the nauseating spectacle of the media telling us how open-minded and progressive they are and expressing shock at how he hasn't been tarred-and-feathered by the bigoted masses. Another reason to hate the media in Ireland. So well done Leo!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:01:35 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2015, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 11:10:34 AM
Leo and Noonan are about the only 2 worthy of mention.

That brings FG's performance in Government up to an 'E' at best imho. A clear fail. And tbh I don't believe we have a normal Government anymore since the bailout, so it takes some talent to fail in something you are not really participating.

For the record I would give the FF/PD Government an N.G. and kick them out of the school.

Calling out Fox is as necessary as calling out the FG fundamentalist mayogodhelpus was. His posts are pretending to be a normal punter but are consistently biased in favour of one party. We should have a thread on its own for the lackeys so they can have it out among themselves about how good their Gerry/Enda/Mícheál/Joan etc is.

Your posts exhibit every bit as much anti SF bias as fox's do in favour of them.  Are you a 'normal punter' or does that make you an 'anti-SF fundamentalist'?

I will agree with you that Fox is in favour of SF.

I will also agree that I am not.

I am in favour of voting out this government, both parties, and I hate FF and the defunct PDs. Most of the independents are even worse. But if that makes me an 'anti-SF fundamentalist', then fair enough, but that is probably being a bit paranoid.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 06:41:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:01:35 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2015, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 11:10:34 AM
Leo and Noonan are about the only 2 worthy of mention.

That brings FG's performance in Government up to an 'E' at best imho. A clear fail. And tbh I don't believe we have a normal Government anymore since the bailout, so it takes some talent to fail in something you are not really participating.

For the record I would give the FF/PD Government an N.G. and kick them out of the school.

Calling out Fox is as necessary as calling out the FG fundamentalist mayogodhelpus was. His posts are pretending to be a normal punter but are consistently biased in favour of one party. We should have a thread on its own for the lackeys so they can have it out among themselves about how good their Gerry/Enda/Mícheál/Joan etc is.

Your posts exhibit every bit as much anti SF bias as fox's do in favour of them.  Are you a 'normal punter' or does that make you an 'anti-SF fundamentalist'?

Ah yes, a classic example of either SF or anti-SF fundamentalist. There is no other kind of people to you. The exact type of lackey I was referring to.

Seems like you don't know of any other kind.
As I said , in your example 3 of your evidence it mentioned the queen. Nowhere in that example was there a mention of SF but you produced this as my overt bias towards a political party. So in your mind anyone who doesn't like the queen is an SF supporter?

Clutching at straws to validate your assumptions. You should really give it up. Some of us don't need to tag on to political parties to form our own opinions.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 06:41:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:01:35 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2015, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 11:10:34 AM
Leo and Noonan are about the only 2 worthy of mention.

That brings FG's performance in Government up to an 'E' at best imho. A clear fail. And tbh I don't believe we have a normal Government anymore since the bailout, so it takes some talent to fail in something you are not really participating.

For the record I would give the FF/PD Government an N.G. and kick them out of the school.

Calling out Fox is as necessary as calling out the FG fundamentalist mayogodhelpus was. His posts are pretending to be a normal punter but are consistently biased in favour of one party. We should have a thread on its own for the lackeys so they can have it out among themselves about how good their Gerry/Enda/Mícheál/Joan etc is.

Your posts exhibit every bit as much anti SF bias as fox's do in favour of them.  Are you a 'normal punter' or does that make you an 'anti-SF fundamentalist'?

Ah yes, a classic example of either SF or anti-SF fundamentalist. There is no other kind of people to you. The exact type of lackey I was referring to.

Seems like you don't know of any other kind.
As I said , in your example 3 of your evidence it mentioned the queen. Nowhere in that example was there a mention of SF but you produced this as my overt bias towards a political party. So in your mind anyone who doesn't like the queen is an SF supporter?

Clutching at straws to validate your assumptions. You should really give it up. Some of us don't need to tag on to political parties to form our own opinions.

You would be correct, if that was it in isolation.

But it is like this:

a) You attack every other party,
b) you defend SF,
c) you defend Gerry Adams,
d) you attack the Queen,
e) you attack Irish rugby,

etc, etc.

It paints a certain picture.

Now I know you will post asking me if you don't like Irish rugby does that make you a Shinner, but you must realise people see through that cherry picking.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 07:36:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 06:41:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:01:35 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2015, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 11:10:34 AM
Leo and Noonan are about the only 2 worthy of mention.

That brings FG's performance in Government up to an 'E' at best imho. A clear fail. And tbh I don't believe we have a normal Government anymore since the bailout, so it takes some talent to fail in something you are not really participating.

For the record I would give the FF/PD Government an N.G. and kick them out of the school.

Calling out Fox is as necessary as calling out the FG fundamentalist mayogodhelpus was. His posts are pretending to be a normal punter but are consistently biased in favour of one party. We should have a thread on its own for the lackeys so they can have it out among themselves about how good their Gerry/Enda/Mícheál/Joan etc is.

Your posts exhibit every bit as much anti SF bias as fox's do in favour of them.  Are you a 'normal punter' or does that make you an 'anti-SF fundamentalist'?

Ah yes, a classic example of either SF or anti-SF fundamentalist. There is no other kind of people to you. The exact type of lackey I was referring to.

Seems like you don't know of any other kind.
As I said , in your example 3 of your evidence it mentioned the queen. Nowhere in that example was there a mention of SF but you produced this as my overt bias towards a political party. So in your mind anyone who doesn't like the queen is an SF supporter?

Clutching at straws to validate your assumptions. You should really give it up. Some of us don't need to tag on to political parties to form our own opinions.

You would be correct, if that was it in isolation.

But it is like this:

a) You attack every other party,
b) you defend SF,
c) you defend Gerry Adams,
d) you attack the Queen,
e) you attack Irish rugby,

etc, etc.

It paints certain picture.

Now I know you will post asking me if you don't like Irish rugby does that make you a Shinner, but you must realise people see through that cherry picking.

Keep backpeddling there's a good lad... You know you told a porkie..i'll accept your apology though.

As a GAA patron I have no time for rugby. I could explain all the comments but I don't actually have to.



Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 19, 2015, 08:43:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 07:36:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 06:41:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:01:35 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2015, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 11:10:34 AM
Leo and Noonan are about the only 2 worthy of mention.

That brings FG's performance in Government up to an 'E' at best imho. A clear fail. And tbh I don't believe we have a normal Government anymore since the bailout, so it takes some talent to fail in something you are not really participating.

For the record I would give the FF/PD Government an N.G. and kick them out of the school.

Calling out Fox is as necessary as calling out the FG fundamentalist mayogodhelpus was. His posts are pretending to be a normal punter but are consistently biased in favour of one party. We should have a thread on its own for the lackeys so they can have it out among themselves about how good their Gerry/Enda/Mícheál/Joan etc is.

Your posts exhibit every bit as much anti SF bias as fox's do in favour of them.  Are you a 'normal punter' or does that make you an 'anti-SF fundamentalist'?

Ah yes, a classic example of either SF or anti-SF fundamentalist. There is no other kind of people to you. The exact type of lackey I was referring to.

Seems like you don't know of any other kind.
As I said , in your example 3 of your evidence it mentioned the queen. Nowhere in that example was there a mention of SF but you produced this as my overt bias towards a political party. So in your mind anyone who doesn't like the queen is an SF supporter?

Clutching at straws to validate your assumptions. You should really give it up. Some of us don't need to tag on to political parties to form our own opinions.

You would be correct, if that was it in isolation.

But it is like this:

a) You attack every other party,
b) you defend SF,
c) you defend Gerry Adams,
d) you attack the Queen,
e) you attack Irish rugby,

etc, etc.

It paints certain picture.

Now I know you will post asking me if you don't like Irish rugby does that make you a Shinner, but you must realise people see through that cherry picking.

Keep backpeddling there's a good lad... You know you told a porkie..i'll accept your apology though.

As a GAA patron I have no time for rugby. I could explain all the comments but I don't actually have to.

I haven't back peddled an inch. 

I am rehashing exactly the same points.  ;D



Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 08:57:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 08:43:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 07:36:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 06:41:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:01:35 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2015, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 11:10:34 AM
Leo and Noonan are about the only 2 worthy of mention.

That brings FG's performance in Government up to an 'E' at best imho. A clear fail. And tbh I don't believe we have a normal Government anymore since the bailout, so it takes some talent to fail in something you are not really participating.

For the record I would give the FF/PD Government an N.G. and kick them out of the school.

Calling out Fox is as necessary as calling out the FG fundamentalist mayogodhelpus was. His posts are pretending to be a normal punter but are consistently biased in favour of one party. We should have a thread on its own for the lackeys so they can have it out among themselves about how good their Gerry/Enda/Mícheál/Joan etc is.

Your posts exhibit every bit as much anti SF bias as fox's do in favour of them.  Are you a 'normal punter' or does that make you an 'anti-SF fundamentalist'?

Ah yes, a classic example of either SF or anti-SF fundamentalist. There is no other kind of people to you. The exact type of lackey I was referring to.

Seems like you don't know of any other kind.
As I said , in your example 3 of your evidence it mentioned the queen. Nowhere in that example was there a mention of SF but you produced this as my overt bias towards a political party. So in your mind anyone who doesn't like the queen is an SF supporter?

Clutching at straws to validate your assumptions. You should really give it up. Some of us don't need to tag on to political parties to form our own opinions.

You would be correct, if that was it in isolation.

But it is like this:

a) You attack every other party,
b) you defend SF,
c) you defend Gerry Adams,
d) you attack the Queen,
e) you attack Irish rugby,

etc, etc.

It paints certain picture.

Now I know you will post asking me if you don't like Irish rugby does that make you a Shinner, but you must realise people see through that cherry picking.

Keep backpeddling there's a good lad... You know you told a porkie..i'll accept your apology though.

As a GAA patron I have no time for rugby. I could explain all the comments but I don't actually have to.

I haven't back peddled an inch. 

I am rehashing exactly the same points.  ;D

You had just admitted you were wrong. Unless in your own mind that still means you're right. Which it could ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 19, 2015, 09:14:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 08:57:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 08:43:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 07:36:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 06:41:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:01:35 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2015, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 11:10:34 AM
Leo and Noonan are about the only 2 worthy of mention.

That brings FG's performance in Government up to an 'E' at best imho. A clear fail. And tbh I don't believe we have a normal Government anymore since the bailout, so it takes some talent to fail in something you are not really participating.

For the record I would give the FF/PD Government an N.G. and kick them out of the school.

Calling out Fox is as necessary as calling out the FG fundamentalist mayogodhelpus was. His posts are pretending to be a normal punter but are consistently biased in favour of one party. We should have a thread on its own for the lackeys so they can have it out among themselves about how good their Gerry/Enda/Mícheál/Joan etc is.

Your posts exhibit every bit as much anti SF bias as fox's do in favour of them.  Are you a 'normal punter' or does that make you an 'anti-SF fundamentalist'?

Ah yes, a classic example of either SF or anti-SF fundamentalist. There is no other kind of people to you. The exact type of lackey I was referring to.

Seems like you don't know of any other kind.
As I said , in your example 3 of your evidence it mentioned the queen. Nowhere in that example was there a mention of SF but you produced this as my overt bias towards a political party. So in your mind anyone who doesn't like the queen is an SF supporter?

Clutching at straws to validate your assumptions. You should really give it up. Some of us don't need to tag on to political parties to form our own opinions.

You would be correct, if that was it in isolation.

But it is like this:

a) You attack every other party,
b) you defend SF,
c) you defend Gerry Adams,
d) you attack the Queen,
e) you attack Irish rugby,

etc, etc.

It paints certain picture.

Now I know you will post asking me if you don't like Irish rugby does that make you a Shinner, but you must realise people see through that cherry picking.

Keep backpeddling there's a good lad... You know you told a porkie..i'll accept your apology though.

As a GAA patron I have no time for rugby. I could explain all the comments but I don't actually have to.

I haven't back peddled an inch. 

I am rehashing exactly the same points.  ;D

You had just admitted you were wrong. Unless in your own mind that still means you're right. Which it could ;)

I am beginning to think there is a screw loose here somewhere.

Please show me where I admitted I was wrong.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 09:20:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 09:14:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 08:57:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 08:43:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 07:36:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 06:41:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:01:35 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2015, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 11:10:34 AM
Leo and Noonan are about the only 2 worthy of mention.

That brings FG's performance in Government up to an 'E' at best imho. A clear fail. And tbh I don't believe we have a normal Government anymore since the bailout, so it takes some talent to fail in something you are not really participating.

For the record I would give the FF/PD Government an N.G. and kick them out of the school.

Calling out Fox is as necessary as calling out the FG fundamentalist mayogodhelpus was. His posts are pretending to be a normal punter but are consistently biased in favour of one party. We should have a thread on its own for the lackeys so they can have it out among themselves about how good their Gerry/Enda/Mícheál/Joan etc is.

Your posts exhibit every bit as much anti SF bias as fox's do in favour of them.  Are you a 'normal punter' or does that make you an 'anti-SF fundamentalist'?

Ah yes, a classic example of either SF or anti-SF fundamentalist. There is no other kind of people to you. The exact type of lackey I was referring to.

Seems like you don't know of any other kind.
As I said , in your example 3 of your evidence it mentioned the queen. Nowhere in that example was there a mention of SF but you produced this as my overt bias towards a political party. So in your mind anyone who doesn't like the queen is an SF supporter?

Clutching at straws to validate your assumptions. You should really give it up. Some of us don't need to tag on to political parties to form our own opinions.

You would be correct, if that was it in isolation.

But it is like this:

a) You attack every other party,
b) you defend SF,
c) you defend Gerry Adams,
d) you attack the Queen,
e) you attack Irish rugby,

etc, etc.

It paints certain picture.

Now I know you will post asking me if you don't like Irish rugby does that make you a Shinner, but you must realise people see through that cherry picking.

Keep backpeddling there's a good lad... You know you told a porkie..i'll accept your apology though.

As a GAA patron I have no time for rugby. I could explain all the comments but I don't actually have to.

I haven't back peddled an inch. 

I am rehashing exactly the same points.  ;D

You had just admitted you were wrong. Unless in your own mind that still means you're right. Which it could ;)

I am beginning to think there is a screw loose here somewhere.

Please show me where I admitted I was wrong.

You said above "You would be correct". Are you trying to retract that statement now?




Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on January 19, 2015, 09:23:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:01:35 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2015, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 11:10:34 AM
Leo and Noonan are about the only 2 worthy of mention.

That brings FG's performance in Government up to an 'E' at best imho. A clear fail. And tbh I don't believe we have a normal Government anymore since the bailout, so it takes some talent to fail in something you are not really participating.

For the record I would give the FF/PD Government an N.G. and kick them out of the school.

Calling out Fox is as necessary as calling out the FG fundamentalist mayogodhelpus was. His posts are pretending to be a normal punter but are consistently biased in favour of one party. We should have a thread on its own for the lackeys so they can have it out among themselves about how good their Gerry/Enda/Mícheál/Joan etc is.

Your posts exhibit every bit as much anti SF bias as fox's do in favour of them.  Are you a 'normal punter' or does that make you an 'anti-SF fundamentalist'?

I will agree with you that Fox is in favour of SF.

I will also agree that I am not.

I am in favour of voting out this government, both parties, and I hate FF and the defunct PDs. Most of the independents are even worse. But if that makes me an 'anti-SF fundamentalist', then fair enough, but that is probably being a bit paranoid.

Who are you going to vote for? 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 19, 2015, 09:42:32 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 19, 2015, 09:23:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:01:35 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2015, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 11:10:34 AM
Leo and Noonan are about the only 2 worthy of mention.

That brings FG's performance in Government up to an 'E' at best imho. A clear fail. And tbh I don't believe we have a normal Government anymore since the bailout, so it takes some talent to fail in something you are not really participating.

For the record I would give the FF/PD Government an N.G. and kick them out of the school.

Calling out Fox is as necessary as calling out the FG fundamentalist mayogodhelpus was. His posts are pretending to be a normal punter but are consistently biased in favour of one party. We should have a thread on its own for the lackeys so they can have it out among themselves about how good their Gerry/Enda/Mícheál/Joan etc is.

Your posts exhibit every bit as much anti SF bias as fox's do in favour of them.  Are you a 'normal punter' or does that make you an 'anti-SF fundamentalist'?

I will agree with you that Fox is in favour of SF.

I will also agree that I am not.

I am in favour of voting out this government, both parties, and I hate FF and the defunct PDs. Most of the independents are even worse. But if that makes me an 'anti-SF fundamentalist', then fair enough, but that is probably being a bit paranoid.

Who are you going to vote for?

There is the problem. We will see what the new group of independent TDs come up with. I might go that direction.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 19, 2015, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 09:20:44 PM

You said above "You would be correct". Are you trying to retract that statement now?

Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
You would be correct, if that was it in isolation.

Seriously? Notice any difference?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 20, 2015, 12:58:18 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 09:20:44 PM

You said above "You would be correct". Are you trying to retract that statement now?

Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
You would be correct, if that was it in isolation.

Seriously? Notice any difference?

The difference is that you can't admit when you're wrong. The second part of your sentence was fluff to justify yourself
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 20, 2015, 01:10:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 20, 2015, 12:58:18 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 09:20:44 PM

You said above "You would be correct". Are you trying to retract that statement now?

Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
You would be correct, if that was it in isolation.

Seriously? Notice any difference?

The difference is that you can't admit when you're wrong. The second part of your sentence was fluff to justify yourself

Yea.......ok.

So anyway, shall we see you posting balanced commentary on Irish politics from now on, or just defending SF and attacking everyone else?

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 20, 2015, 03:15:41 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2015, 01:10:09 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 20, 2015, 12:58:18 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 19, 2015, 09:20:44 PM

You said above "You would be correct". Are you trying to retract that statement now?

Quote from: muppet on January 19, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
You would be correct, if that was it in isolation.

Seriously? Notice any difference?

The difference is that you can't admit when you're wrong. The second part of your sentence was fluff to justify yourself

Yea.......ok.

So anyway, shall we see you posting balanced commentary on Irish politics from now on, or just defending SF and attacking everyone else?

I'll call bullshit with any party if I see it. Funnily enough here's the next scare story being released by the press.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0120/673936-epa-water-report/

I have to say the timing of this is quite a co-incidence, especially with the protests coming up on the 31st January. A cynical person might wonder about the authenticity..especially when you read lines such as

Around 20,000 people are currently affected by public water restrictions and boil water notices due to contaminants like Cryptosporidium - which causes gastrointestinal illness - and Trihalomethanes - which scientists say may be linked with cancer.

again, that article from RTE states "MAY BE LINKED WITH CANCER". No proof but try scare the living shit out of people into believing it. This should not be allowed.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 20, 2015, 09:55:39 AM
I would have thought Leo's announcement on Sunday would almost definitely put him out of the running for Taoiseach, FGs leadership is voted on by the whole party and not just the parlimentary party, like it or not they are still a right leaning party, as is Leo in fairness. I can see a lot of people worrying about how it would look to the outside world, ridiculous stuff but probably still there IMHO.
However I see his odds have moved from 16-1 to 10-1.
With Lucinda gone I would have thought it a straight shoot out between Coveney and Leo as the next leader, two very capable men who have both done a good job in this government. Leo would be my personal choice, excellent communicator, lots of common sense and seems straight up (pardon the pun) but I'd be happy with either as next Taoiseach
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on January 20, 2015, 10:06:13 AM
Simon Coveney has been a real surprise for me. He always struck me as a dilettante in opposition but he seems calm and assured as a Minister. Is he's-from-Dublin a thing when it comes to being a party leader? If not, I think Coveney is well ahead of Varadker in the future leadership stakes. Many a slip though and all that.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 20, 2015, 10:32:35 AM
I imagine Coveney would be a better man at bringing all sides along with him. The Leo lad might be too bull headed dealing with people.
How many seats are FG likely to get in the next General election?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on January 20, 2015, 10:43:45 AM
I don't know. What I know is that FG are going to take some pounding. Even a small swing (and it's not likely to be small) against them will see them lose the final seat that they picked up in so many constituencies. To illustrate the point, look no further than Enda Kenny's back yard where they won four from five in 2011. They got 65% of the first preferences. They'd need 80% in a four seater to hang on to all four.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 20, 2015, 10:59:55 AM
Quote from: deiseach on January 20, 2015, 10:06:13 AM
Simon Coveney has been a real surprise for me. He always struck me as a dilettante in opposition but he seems calm and assured as a Minister. Is he's-from-Dublin a thing when it comes to being a party leader? If not, I think Coveney is well ahead of Varadker in the future leadership stakes. Many a slip though and all that.

It is absolutely massive with the Dublin media.

Reynolds, Bruton, Cowen and Kenny were all lampooned. Some may have even deserved it.

Bertie, Haughey & Garrett Fitzgerald all were held up (by the media) as statesmen and their obvious flaws completely ignored.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 20, 2015, 11:37:34 AM
Deiseach, who will all the 2011 FG voters go for next time? Probably the new Amateur Centrist Soundbite Alliance? No doubt the PDite ones will go to Lucinda's Thatcherite soundbite alliance if it gets started this decade.
In Ros/Galway I expect we'll get Naughten, Fitzmaurice and a FF hack of some sort. We still won't get our Hospital back to full A&E status.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on January 20, 2015, 11:47:20 AM
Again, I don't know for sure. I'm guessing lot of people must have switched to FG from FF on the basis that it was important to vote for a centre-right party because they are the only ones who are Serious, who are into Wealth Creation and the will of the Silent Majority. Some of them will slink back to FF with others fanning out among hang 'em and flog 'em independents or not voting at all.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 20, 2015, 11:58:48 AM
Quote from: deiseach on January 20, 2015, 11:47:20 AM
Again, I don't know for sure. I'm guessing lot of people must have switched to FG from FF on the basis that it was important to vote for a centre-right party because they are the only ones who are Serious, who are into Wealth Creation and the will of the Silent Majority. Some of them will slink back to FF with others fanning out among hang 'em and flog 'em independents or not voting at all.

There is no credibility in the traditional parties and as for SF's - faux anti-austerity while calling for more taxes - contradiction, well that won't fool many.

That leaves an awful lot of protest votes going to independents. There is a real opportunity now for a bunch of independents to make serious headway and possibly help shape the next Government. But for some strange reason it is hard to be optimistic. The next election could be very quickly followed by the one after.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Canalman on January 20, 2015, 12:22:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2015, 10:59:55 AM
Quote from: deiseach on January 20, 2015, 10:06:13 AM
Simon Coveney has been a real surprise for me. He always struck me as a dilettante in opposition but he seems calm and assured as a Minister. Is he's-from-Dublin a thing when it comes to being a party leader? If not, I think Coveney is well ahead of Varadker in the future leadership stakes. Many a slip though and all that.

It is absolutely massive with the Dublin media.

Reynolds, Bruton, Cowen and Kenny were all lampooned. Some may have even deserved it.

Bertie, Haughey & Garrett Fitzgerald all were held up (by the media) as statesmen and their obvious flaws completely ignored.

Jack Lynch  absolutely adored by Irish media................. Liam Cosgrave and his government lampooned to high heaven. Aherne and Haughey now pariahs and indeed Haughey was hated by vast sections of the media at the time. Media now hanging off every utterance by Bruton.

Cowen and  Kenny I'm afraid have only their actions to blame for their perceptions in the  "Dublin Media" as it is called.

Massive generalizations there Muppet.*

* Massive generalizations myself as well.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 20, 2015, 12:51:55 PM
Quote from: Canalman on January 20, 2015, 12:22:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2015, 10:59:55 AM
Quote from: deiseach on January 20, 2015, 10:06:13 AM
Simon Coveney has been a real surprise for me. He always struck me as a dilettante in opposition but he seems calm and assured as a Minister. Is he's-from-Dublin a thing when it comes to being a party leader? If not, I think Coveney is well ahead of Varadker in the future leadership stakes. Many a slip though and all that.

It is absolutely massive with the Dublin media.

Reynolds, Bruton, Cowen and Kenny were all lampooned. Some may have even deserved it.

Bertie, Haughey & Garrett Fitzgerald all were held up (by the media) as statesmen and their obvious flaws completely ignored.

Jack Lynch  absolutely adored by Irish media................. Liam Cosgrave and his government lampooned to high heaven. Aherne and Haughey now pariahs and indeed Haughey was hated by vast sections of the media at the time. Media now hanging off every utterance by Bruton.

Cowen and  Kenny I'm afraid have only their actions to blame for their perceptions in the  "Dublin Media" as it is called.

Massive generalizations there Muppet.*

* Massive generalizations myself as well.

Jack Lynch was loved by the public, not to be confused with the media.

Ahern and Haughey are now indeed pariahs. And rightfully so. No thanks to a media that generally worshipped them when they were in power though. Especially Ahern.

And as for this "Media now hanging off every utterance by Bruton." Really? If he makes controversial comments about 1916, expect him to be quoted. But that is hardly 'hanging off his every utterance.'
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 20, 2015, 02:17:07 PM
If the next government is beholding to independents then it will both be a disaster and not last very long, a government needs a clear strategy.

IMO FG will be the largest party again after the next election, I'd agree with Deiseach they'll lose that last seat in constituencies like Mayo but there were fewer of those than you think Deiseach, certainly by the scale FF set in the previous election.
Next will probably be SF, although there's a question about their support in rural areas, especially in the west, Midlands and South. And then FF, probably somewhere level with SF.
Labour will be wiped out pretty much leaving them without the seats to go into government with FG. Which leaves a FG-FF government as the most likely.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Canalman on January 20, 2015, 02:38:59 PM
Agree with you M4Sam there that it's all pointing to either a FG/FF coalition or another  GE within a year.

Think SF will not go into Govt under any circumstances  and prefer to position itself as the main opposition party and target the GE after next. Most of their main players are young enough to wait a while.

Next FG leader may well be Simon Coveney.................. for a non Dub  ;) he seems to be getting rave reviews in the papers. Varadkar still far too young .
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 20, 2015, 02:42:53 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on January 20, 2015, 02:17:07 PM
If the next government is beholding to independents then it will both be a disaster and not last very long, a government needs a clear strategy.

IMO FG will be the largest party again after the next election, I'd agree with Deiseach they'll lose that last seat in constituencies like Mayo but there were fewer of those than you think Deiseach, certainly by the scale FF set in the previous election.
Next will probably be SF, although there's a question about their support in rural areas, especially in the west, Midlands and South. And then FF, probably somewhere level with SF.
Labour will be wiped out pretty much leaving them without the seats to go into government with FG. Which leaves a FG-FF government as the most likely.

This is the most logical outcome, which means there isn't a hope in hell of it happening.

TBH it is a terrible state of affairs. You can't put FF back in after what they did. But equally putting FG &/or Labour back sends completely the wrong message regarding their performance in Government.

Maybe we should fill the place with independents knowing that in that event, all the party leaders and their senior colleagues would all have to resign. Then after the independents fail to agree anything, have another election. Of course the EU could do what they did in Italy and appoint someone like Patrick Honohan and tell us to like it or lump it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on January 20, 2015, 02:51:34 PM
If we were playing 'Fantasy Government' and somehow coming up with a series of government ministers, answerable to a wider house of jennets such as the Seanad, I wonder what sort of government we'd end up with? In essence I'm talking about a national election for the main Governmental posts, where the winners fill those posts and those posts only. If you lose that race, you are out of the picture altogether. They could maintain their party affiliations, but each minister appointed would have full responsibility of where the budget for that department was spent.

Then maybe once a week, each minister has to attend the oireachteas and give a presentation on what's going on in their department, and they can be questioned by that house. Whether that's the Seanad, or a set of 'best runners up' in the ministerial races.

Let's say you had this voting slip, no matter what part of Ireland you lived in, who would you vote for. The Tainiste would be automatically the minister with the highest vote for the other departments. So if Ming Flanagan got 2,000,000 for minister for turf, and that was the highest vote, he would also be Tainiste.

Taoiseach:
Minster for Finance:
Minister for Health:
Minster for Trade and Employment:
Minster for Justice:
Minister for Social Welfare:
Minister for Communications:
Minister for Foreign Affairs:

I reckon we might have a motley crew of Ministers, but probably a smaller, neater government and political system in general.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 20, 2015, 02:53:20 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 20, 2015, 02:51:34 PM
If we were playing 'Fantasy Government' and somehow coming up with a series of government ministers, answerable to a wider house of jennets such as the Seanad, I wonder what sort of government we'd end up with? In essence I'm talking about a national election for the main Governmental posts, where the winners fill those posts and those posts only. If you lose that race, you are out of the picture altogether. They could maintain their party affiliations, but each minister appointed would have full responsibility of where the budget for that department was spent.

Then maybe once a week, each minister has to attend the oireachteas and give a presentation on what's going on in their department, and they can be questioned by that house. Whether that's the Seanad, or a set of 'best runners up' in the ministerial races.

Let's say you had this voting slip, no matter what part of Ireland you lived in, who would you vote for. The Tainiste would be automatically the minister with the highest vote for the other departments. So if Ming Flanagan got 2,000,000 for minister for turf, and that was the highest vote, he would also be Tainiste.

Taoiseach:
Minster for Finance:
Minister for Health:
Minster for Trade and Employment:
Minster for Justice:
Minister for Social Welfare:
Minister for Communications:
Minister for Foreign Affairs:

I reckon we might have a motley crew of Ministers, but probably a smaller, neater government and political system in general.

Does it have to come exclusively from politicians?

*Muppet - Shaking at the thought of people nominating Michael O'Leary for Fuhrer*
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on January 20, 2015, 02:55:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2015, 02:53:20 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 20, 2015, 02:51:34 PM
If we were playing 'Fantasy Government' and somehow coming up with a series of government ministers, answerable to a wider house of jennets such as the Seanad, I wonder what sort of government we'd end up with? In essence I'm talking about a national election for the main Governmental posts, where the winners fill those posts and those posts only. If you lose that race, you are out of the picture altogether. They could maintain their party affiliations, but each minister appointed would have full responsibility of where the budget for that department was spent.

Then maybe once a week, each minister has to attend the oireachteas and give a presentation on what's going on in their department, and they can be questioned by that house. Whether that's the Seanad, or a set of 'best runners up' in the ministerial races.

Let's say you had this voting slip, no matter what part of Ireland you lived in, who would you vote for. The Tainiste would be automatically the minister with the highest vote for the other departments. So if Ming Flanagan got 2,000,000 for minister for turf, and that was the highest vote, he would also be Tainiste.

Taoiseach:
Minster for Finance:
Minister for Health:
Minster for Trade and Employment:
Minster for Justice:
Minister for Social Welfare:
Minister for Communications:
Minister for Foreign Affairs:

I reckon we might have a motley crew of Ministers, but probably a smaller, neater government and political system in general.

Does it have to come exclusively from politicians?

*Muppet - Shaking at the thought of people nominating Michael O'Leary for Fuhrer*

Anybody can run for these slots, just as they can for the Dáil. But that, de facto, makes them politicians.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on January 20, 2015, 03:08:50 PM
I like this - maybe a thread of it's own.

The GAABoard 26 County Mock Ministerial Election (Skewed To Favour SF Due To The 6 County Voter Bias) Thread

I'd be really interested to see what came out of this if everyone took it seriously.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 20, 2015, 08:32:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2015, 02:42:53 PM
putting FG &/or Labour back sends completely the wrong message regarding their performance in Government.

What did you ( and the rest) realistically expect them to do?
They were in charge of a broke Country which had done a deal with the Devil to be bailed out.
They had little or no room to manouvre - had to stick woth the "programme"  of spending reductions ans tax increases including the (agreed by FF) widening of the tax base by having private property owners pay a property tax and a water charge.
In the next election the loyal hacks will vote for their party candidates while the overall outcome will be decided by the 40% or more who switch their votes from election to Election.
Would I be right in thinking these are mainly the upper middle class town and city dwellers?
They've had a chequered 28 years of it - PDs then Labour after one of their own - Mary Robinson got the Presidency, they then went for Bertie/McCreevy/PD world of unregulated big business belting away and SSIAs and all the rest, then when that imploded it was FG and Lab in 2011.
I suppose they'll flock to the 2 new Soundbite organisations?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 20, 2015, 10:50:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 20, 2015, 08:32:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2015, 02:42:53 PM
putting FG &/or Labour back sends completely the wrong message regarding their performance in Government.

What did you ( and the rest) realistically expect them to do?
They were in charge of a broke Country which had done a deal with the Devil to be bailed out.
They had little or no room to manouvre - had to stick woth the "programme"  of spending reductions ans tax increases including the (agreed by FF) widening of the tax base by having private property owners pay a property tax and a water charge.

In the next election the loyal hacks will vote for their party candidates while the overall outcome will be decided by the 40% or more who switch their votes from election to Election.
Would I be right in thinking these are mainly the upper middle class town and city dwellers?
They've had a chequered 28 years of it - PDs then Labour after one of their own - Mary Robinson got the Presidency, they then went for Bertie/McCreevy/PD world of unregulated big business belting away and SSIAs and all the rest, then when that imploded it was FG and Lab in 2011.
I suppose they'll flock to the 2 new Soundbite organisations?

I know all of that and have been posting it here for the last few years.

That is not the point.

Despite all of the above I would grade them a fail. They do not deserve to be returned to Government after such a crap performance. It is notable that the only aspect of the Troika Bailout deal they reneged on was the Civil Service reform bit. The failed to do anything to the unions. They brought in property tax, water tax and raided private sector pension funds, while leaving their own non-existent funds unpenalised.

Read this from just over a year ago: http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/unions-refuse-to-meet-troika-on-its-final-mission-29723426.html (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/unions-refuse-to-meet-troika-on-its-final-mission-29723426.html)

THE Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU) has rejected an invitation to meet the troika during its latest review mission after walking out of a meeting in the summer.

SHARE
ICTU general secretary David Begg told the Irish Independent that their experience throughout the three-year bailout programme had been very negative, branding the EU-IMF representatives as "unfeeling, unreceptive and unco-operative".

He said the union chiefs had enjoyed good bilateral discussions with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) on its own, but that his experience of the troika as a collective had been very bad.

"We would have found the European Central Bank (ECB) and EU people particularly difficult to deal with," Mr Begg said.

"In our view, as a collective, the troika just presented as an unfeeling technocracy.

"They were really indifferent to any of the social problems that the austerity programme was putting up and they were just so single-minded about the nature of austerity."

The troika review mission to Ireland, the final under the bailout programme, will wrap up on Thursday after officials have held various meetings, including with the Government and political groups.

It is the first review mission that union chiefs have not met the troika.

Mr Begg said that over the course of the past three years, the ICTU representatives had presented the ECB, European Commission and IMF officials with various documents and proposals about how to stimulate the economy while remaining within the parameters of the bailout.

"But we just found them unreceptive and unco-operative," he said.

"We told them at the last meeting three months ago that we didn't see that it was going anywhere and we left the meeting after 20 minutes.

"We weren't making any progress. To have another meeting after the last one went so badly would have been a strange thing to do."

TRANSITION

Meanwhile, the ICTU chief questioned the need for a so-called precautionary credit line, an overdraft facility of sorts, to ease the transition from bailout to full market access when the Government leaves the bailout at the end of the year.

"I find it difficult to understand what the debate is about," he said. "At one level, if everything is so good, why would there be any need for it?

"It displays a certain lack of confidence," Mr Begg added.


The Unions wanted to give the Troika their own agenda to implement and found that they were told to shove it. That explains the sulk above. Why didn't the Government do the same to the hospital consultants for example? I suspect the Troika looked at the multitude of Qangos full of union officials and at Benchmarking in particular, all under the banner 'Partnership', with horror. But still the Government failed to tackle this particular nasty part of Bertie's legacies.

Just to point out the lunacy of this situation, the man quoted above, the Head of ICTU, was on the Board of The Irish Central Bank in the run up to, and during the financial crisis. He served there, AFAIK, for 14 years. Accord to this: https://paddyhealy.wordpress.com/2014/05/01/bank-inquiry-david-begg-must-explain-role-of-central-bank/ (https://paddyhealy.wordpress.com/2014/05/01/bank-inquiry-david-begg-must-explain-role-of-central-bank/) he was Chairman of the 'Audit and Risk Management Committee' in 2007 when the Irish Central Bank stress tested our banks and found them adequately funded. If the above was correct he was involved in giving our banks a clean bill of health in 2007. And he, with his ICTU hat on, wanted to tell the Troika how to run their bailout?

These people have some neck.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 20, 2015, 11:36:58 PM
So it's all "the unions" fault then. Nothing to do with unregulated bankers or builders or Quinns .
You've been banging that oul drum for 7 years now. ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 21, 2015, 11:09:18 AM
AZ you have too much time on ur hands.


Am I the only one who thinks the goverment had a mixed scorecard? Considering the shambles they were left we are leaving austerity having stabilised the economy, employment and wages are beginning to rise, immigration on the fall. In Europe they have done well, especially in agriculture.

Offset by a fairly poor record on the health system, their radical reform and universal healthcare has proved impossible to implement. Irish Water has been a shambles and shown a real lack of backbone.

Like I say a mixed scorecard 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on January 21, 2015, 11:23:52 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 20, 2015, 11:36:58 PM
So it's all "the unions" fault then. Nothing to do with unregulated bankers or builders or Quinns .
You've been banging that oul drum for 7 years now. ::)
Nah, it was them effin' effers that did it!
I don't blame the banks, builders or Sean Quinnn for the mess we landed in. Of course what they did was wrong but the government of the day should have been aware of what likely to happen and taken steps to prevent it.
Ahern, Cowan and the rest took most of the credit when things were going well and should have to shoulder most of the blame when the economy went belly-up.
What FF did was inexcusable and I don't think I could ever vote for that shower again.
The trouble is that I don't think the present coalition is much better and I've no reason to believe that the crash wouldn't have happened  if FG/Lab had won the 2007 election.
I mean by 2008,  Eddie Hobbs and Stephen Donnelly and all the dogs in the street were telling us that the economy was banjaxed before anyone in either FG or Labour got in on the act.
If there was no other option, I'd probably vote for the Blueshirts before I'd support FF but but it would be a case of necessity rather than choice if I'm forced to do so.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 21, 2015, 11:55:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 20, 2015, 11:36:58 PM
So it's all "the unions" fault then. Nothing to do with unregulated bankers or builders or Quinns .
You've been banging that oul drum for 7 years now. ::)

I have been all over Sean Quinn on that thread and have a glance the bailout thread. Go back to the early pages and read it before you completely misrepresent me. No one said it is all the unions fault, what I said was that they have some neck.

And what does this mean: "Nothing to do with unregulated bankers or builders or Quinns". Do you understand who the Central Bank is and what it does? Did you understand the bit about the stress tests in 2007?

And by the way, instead of dismissing my post, what was wrong with my pointing out the ICTU General Secretary's hypocrisy? Do you have a counter opinion that you can offer?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 12:03:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 20, 2015, 11:36:58 PM
So it's all "the unions" fault then. Nothing to do with unregulated bankers or builders or Quinns .
You've been banging that oul drum for 7 years now. ::)

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 08:46:49 PM
Another Fine (gael) example of the type of people leading the country. Who knew Skype was cheaper?


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/michelle-mulherin-calls-for-skype-in-oireachtas-to-avoid-expensive-phone-bills-30947124.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 08:58:31 PM
And while I know he's Labour (fine gael junior) Michael D Higgins is not some god like figure "above politics". By signing bills into law for the government he is just as responsible.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 29, 2015, 09:22:06 PM
Still showing your ignorance of An Bunreacht I see.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 08:58:31 PM
And while I know he's Labour (fine gael junior) Michael D Higgins is not some god like figure "above politics". By signing bills into law for the government he is just as responsible.
You really don't understand the role of the President. Unless he thinks a bill might be unconstitutional, he has no grounds to block or delay it. If he did, he would effectively be subverting democracy.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 08:58:31 PM
And while I know he's Labour (fine gael junior) Michael D Higgins is not some god like figure "above politics". By signing bills into law for the government he is just as responsible.
You really don't understand the role of the President. Unless he thinks a bill might be unconstitutional, he has no grounds to block or delay it. If he did, he would effectively be subverting democracy.

He signs items into law that the people didn't vote for (or have the opportunity to vote for). That's subverting democracy.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on January 29, 2015, 10:03:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 08:58:31 PM
And while I know he's Labour (fine gael junior) Michael D Higgins is not some god like figure "above politics". By signing bills into law for the government he is just as responsible.
You really don't understand the role of the President. Unless he thinks a bill might be unconstitutional, he has no grounds to block or delay it. If he did, he would effectively be subverting democracy.

He signs items into law that the people didn't vote for (or have the opportunity to vote for). That's subverting democracy.

They voted for the parliament who then pass the laws. This was not some fundamental issue, it is quite within the competance of parliament to decide on this.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on January 29, 2015, 10:12:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 08:58:31 PM
And while I know he's Labour (fine gael junior) Michael D Higgins is not some god like figure "above politics". By signing bills into law for the government he is just as responsible.
You really don't understand the role of the President. Unless he thinks a bill might be unconstitutional, he has no grounds to block or delay it. If he did, he would effectively be subverting democracy.

He signs items into law that the people didn't vote for (or have the opportunity to vote for). That's subverting democracy.

By that logic, he should only sign bills after referenda  :o

How would any new law get passed?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 10:13:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 08:58:31 PM
And while I know he's Labour (fine gael junior) Michael D Higgins is not some god like figure "above politics". By signing bills into law for the government he is just as responsible.
You really don't understand the role of the President. Unless he thinks a bill might be unconstitutional, he has no grounds to block or delay it. If he did, he would effectively be subverting democracy.

He signs items into law that the people didn't vote for (or have the opportunity to vote for). That's subverting democracy.
People don't vote for laws, they vote for politicians.

And as i've pointed out here before, the majority of people in the country voted for parties that were very clear in their manifestos that they would introduce water charges: http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=22335.msg1419911#msg1419911

So even by your own logic, you're wrong.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on January 29, 2015, 10:24:43 PM
This is quite funny.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trileacman on January 29, 2015, 10:56:07 PM
minds me of the weightlifters thread.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 01:08:25 AM
Couldn't Michael d have called for a referendum ?

The people may have voted these politicians in - but do you think a referendum would have agreed with their decision about water charges/tax?

Hiding behind those excuses is pathetic

Think the dub protestors were a little harsh with some of their abuse on wee Michael

But it's about time that people got off their holes to protest if they aren't happy with things- then show their disapproval in the next election
- could be a dail full of independents next time out.
Unless ff put up a decent candidate next time out they will lose my vote.
I won't waste it on fg ( I have in the past and he is a good Td) or labour as I don't agree with this gov.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 30, 2015, 03:03:56 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 29, 2015, 10:03:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 08:58:31 PM
And while I know he's Labour (fine gael junior) Michael D Higgins is not some god like figure "above politics". By signing bills into law for the government he is just as responsible.
You really don't understand the role of the President. Unless he thinks a bill might be unconstitutional, he has no grounds to block or delay it. If he did, he would effectively be subverting democracy.

He signs items into law that the people didn't vote for (or have the opportunity to vote for). That's subverting democracy.

They voted for the parliament who then pass the laws. This was not some fundamental issue, it is quite within the competance of parliament to decide on this.

Fine Gael could had added a line in the back of their manifesto indicating that they might want to run over kittens with a steamroller or kill every first born male child if they got into power. People would have still voted for them into government.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 30, 2015, 03:28:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 10:13:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 08:58:31 PM
And while I know he's Labour (fine gael junior) Michael D Higgins is not some god like figure "above politics". By signing bills into law for the government he is just as responsible.
You really don't understand the role of the President. Unless he thinks a bill might be unconstitutional, he has no grounds to block or delay it. If he did, he would effectively be subverting democracy.

He signs items into law that the people didn't vote for (or have the opportunity to vote for). That's subverting democracy.
People don't vote for laws, they vote for politicians.

And as i've pointed out here before, the majority of people in the country voted for parties that were very clear in their manifestos that they would introduce water charges: http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=22335.msg1419911#msg1419911

So even by your own logic, you're wrong.

I give you Fine Gaels 2011 election 5-point plan (front and center of their manifesto)

1. Help protect and create jobs
2. Keep taxes low while fixing the deficit
3. Deliver smaller, better government
4. Create a completely new, fairer, more efficient health system
5. Overhaul the way our political system works to stamp out cronyism and low standards

They kept all these promises to the people that voted for them in the election? Or should we concentrate on the ones they like they hid down the back (pages 66 and 74 of their 80 page booklet and includes a very detailed explanation of their water plan - a whole 2 lines!).
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on January 30, 2015, 07:44:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 30, 2015, 03:03:56 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 29, 2015, 10:03:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 08:58:31 PM
And while I know he's Labour (fine gael junior) Michael D Higgins is not some god like figure "above politics". By signing bills into law for the government he is just as responsible.
You really don't understand the role of the President. Unless he thinks a bill might be unconstitutional, he has no grounds to block or delay it. If he did, he would effectively be subverting democracy.

He signs items into law that the people didn't vote for (or have the opportunity to vote for). That's subverting democracy.

They voted for the parliament who then pass the laws. This was not some fundamental issue, it is quite within the competance of parliament to decide on this.

Fine Gael could had added a line in the back of their manifesto indicating that they might want to run over kittens with a steamroller or kill every first born male child if they got into power. People would have still voted for them into government.
Democracy can be very inconvenient, can't it?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on January 30, 2015, 08:05:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 01:08:25 AM
Couldn't Michael d have called for a referendum ?

The people may have voted these politicians in - but do you think a referendum would have agreed with their decision about water charges/tax?

Hiding behind those excuses is pathetic
No, Michael D couldn't have called for a referendum. He has absolutely no power to do so.

There are 2 triggers for a referendum in Ireland:
1 - a proposed change to the constitution
2 - what is called an 'ordinary referendum' - the president can call one of these if petitioned to by a Seanad majority and one third of the Dail, if it is deemed a matter of "such national importance" (which would appear to be a fairly subjective term, but you could probably argue its application here).

People really need to get an understanding of the constitution and the role of the President.

And anyway, imagine there was a referendum and the water bill was defeated, what then? The deficit still has to be closed. Do we have a referendum for the subsequent hike in income tax?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on January 30, 2015, 08:11:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 30, 2015, 03:28:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 10:13:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 29, 2015, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 29, 2015, 08:58:31 PM
And while I know he's Labour (fine gael junior) Michael D Higgins is not some god like figure "above politics". By signing bills into law for the government he is just as responsible.
You really don't understand the role of the President. Unless he thinks a bill might be unconstitutional, he has no grounds to block or delay it. If he did, he would effectively be subverting democracy.

He signs items into law that the people didn't vote for (or have the opportunity to vote for). That's subverting democracy.
People don't vote for laws, they vote for politicians.

And as i've pointed out here before, the majority of people in the country voted for parties that were very clear in their manifestos that they would introduce water charges: http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=22335.msg1419911#msg1419911

So even by your own logic, you're wrong.

I give you Fine Gaels 2011 election 5-point plan (front and center of their manifesto)

1. Help protect and create jobs
2. Keep taxes low while fixing the deficit
3. Deliver smaller, better government
4. Create a completely new, fairer, more efficient health system
5. Overhaul the way our political system works to stamp out cronyism and low standards

They kept all these promises to the people that voted for them in the election? Or should we concentrate on the ones they like they hid down the back (pages 66 and 74 of their 80 page booklet and includes a very detailed explanation of their water plan - a whole 2 lines!).
I don't disagree for a minute that FG have been a disaster and have failed to deliver many of their promises - in particular number 5, the promises to overhaul the way we do politics.

But the simple point is, everyone knew that FF had signed the country up for water charges, and FF and FG were both very clear that they would introduce those charges. It might have been many pages into their manifestos, but if you didn't know it was going to happen, you must have been asleep.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 30, 2015, 09:43:42 PM
You have great patience Maguire.  ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 11:48:26 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2015, 08:05:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 01:08:25 AM
Couldn't Michael d have called for a referendum ?

The people may have voted these politicians in - but do you think a referendum would have agreed with their decision about water charges/tax?

Hiding behind those excuses is pathetic
No, Michael D couldn't have called for a referendum. He has absolutely no power to do so.

There are 2 triggers for a referendum in Ireland:
1 - a proposed change to the constitution
2 - what is called an 'ordinary referendum' - the president can call one of these if petitioned to by a Seanad majority and one third of the Dail, if it is deemed a matter of "such national importance" (which would appear to be a fairly subjective term, but you could probably argue its application here).

People really need to get an understanding of the constitution and the role of the President.

And anyway, imagine there was a referendum and the water bill was defeated, what then? The deficit still has to be closed. Do we have a referendum for the subsequent hike in income tax?
Very very easy
Get rid of the quangos and wastes of taxpayers monies

Root and branch review and revamp of civil service/public sector.
We don't need pen pushers in triplicate and duplicate in various roles

That easily gives us the money to fund the fixing of water system , it's upkeep etc.

Is personally be happy to pay a small charge but I suspect those who would vote against and win the referendum against the water charges wouldn't

Michael d actually didn't have to sign that bill by the way!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on January 31, 2015, 12:29:15 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 11:48:26 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2015, 08:05:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 01:08:25 AM
Couldn't Michael d have called for a referendum ?

The people may have voted these politicians in - but do you think a referendum would have agreed with their decision about water charges/tax?

Hiding behind those excuses is pathetic
No, Michael D couldn't have called for a referendum. He has absolutely no power to do so.

There are 2 triggers for a referendum in Ireland:
1 - a proposed change to the constitution
2 - what is called an 'ordinary referendum' - the president can call one of these if petitioned to by a Seanad majority and one third of the Dail, if it is deemed a matter of "such national importance" (which would appear to be a fairly subjective term, but you could probably argue its application here).

People really need to get an understanding of the constitution and the role of the President.

And anyway, imagine there was a referendum and the water bill was defeated, what then? The deficit still has to be closed. Do we have a referendum for the subsequent hike in income tax?
Very very easy
Get rid of the quangos and wastes of taxpayers monies

Root and branch review and revamp of civil service/public sector.
We don't need pen pushers in triplicate and duplicate in various roles

That easily gives us the money to fund the fixing of water system , it's upkeep etc.

Is personally be happy to pay a small charge but I suspect those who would vote against and win the referendum against the water charges wouldn't

Michael d actually didn't have to sign that bill by the way!!
Do enlighten us.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 01:04:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2015, 12:29:15 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 11:48:26 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2015, 08:05:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 01:08:25 AM
Couldn't Michael d have called for a referendum ?

The people may have voted these politicians in - but do you think a referendum would have agreed with their decision about water charges/tax?

Hiding behind those excuses is pathetic
No, Michael D couldn't have called for a referendum. He has absolutely no power to do so.

There are 2 triggers for a referendum in Ireland:
1 - a proposed change to the constitution
2 - what is called an 'ordinary referendum' - the president can call one of these if petitioned to by a Seanad majority and one third of the Dail, if it is deemed a matter of "such national importance" (which would appear to be a fairly subjective term, but you could probably argue its application here).

People really need to get an understanding of the constitution and the role of the President.

And anyway, imagine there was a referendum and the water bill was defeated, what then? The deficit still has to be closed. Do we have a referendum for the subsequent hike in income tax?
Very very easy
Get rid of the quangos and wastes of taxpayers monies

Root and branch review and revamp of civil service/public sector.
We don't need pen pushers in triplicate and duplicate in various roles

That easily gives us the money to fund the fixing of water system , it's upkeep etc.

Is personally be happy to pay a small charge but I suspect those who would vote against and win the referendum against the water charges wouldn't

Michael d actually didn't have to sign that bill by the way!!
Do enlighten us.
According to rte news on the day he signed it
So go ask them!

But the financial savings aspect of my prev post answers your question/negates your 'point'.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on January 31, 2015, 01:14:04 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 01:04:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2015, 12:29:15 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 11:48:26 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2015, 08:05:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 01:08:25 AM
Couldn't Michael d have called for a referendum ?

The people may have voted these politicians in - but do you think a referendum would have agreed with their decision about water charges/tax?

Hiding behind those excuses is pathetic
No, Michael D couldn't have called for a referendum. He has absolutely no power to do so.

There are 2 triggers for a referendum in Ireland:
1 - a proposed change to the constitution
2 - what is called an 'ordinary referendum' - the president can call one of these if petitioned to by a Seanad majority and one third of the Dail, if it is deemed a matter of "such national importance" (which would appear to be a fairly subjective term, but you could probably argue its application here).

People really need to get an understanding of the constitution and the role of the President.

And anyway, imagine there was a referendum and the water bill was defeated, what then? The deficit still has to be closed. Do we have a referendum for the subsequent hike in income tax?
Very very easy
Get rid of the quangos and wastes of taxpayers monies

Root and branch review and revamp of civil service/public sector.
We don't need pen pushers in triplicate and duplicate in various roles

That easily gives us the money to fund the fixing of water system , it's upkeep etc.

Is personally be happy to pay a small charge but I suspect those who would vote against and win the referendum against the water charges wouldn't

Michael d actually didn't have to sign that bill by the way!!
Do enlighten us.
According to rte news on the day he signed it
So go ask them!
I'm asking you, given that you made the point.

He could have referred it to the Council of State and then on to the Supreme Court, of course. But only if he thought it was unconstitutional. I suppose he could have done so regardless of what he actually thought, but all it would do is delay the inevitable and make him look like he doesn't understand his role. Clearly there's nothing unconstitutional about the bill.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2015, 01:14:04 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 01:04:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2015, 12:29:15 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 11:48:26 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2015, 08:05:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 01:08:25 AM
Couldn't Michael d have called for a referendum ?

The people may have voted these politicians in - but do you think a referendum would have agreed with their decision about water charges/tax?

Hiding behind those excuses is pathetic
No, Michael D couldn't have called for a referendum. He has absolutely no power to do so.

There are 2 triggers for a referendum in Ireland:
1 - a proposed change to the constitution
2 - what is called an 'ordinary referendum' - the president can call one of these if petitioned to by a Seanad majority and one third of the Dail, if it is deemed a matter of "such national importance" (which would appear to be a fairly subjective term, but you could probably argue its application here).

People really need to get an understanding of the constitution and the role of the President.

And anyway, imagine there was a referendum and the water bill was defeated, what then? The deficit still has to be closed. Do we have a referendum for the subsequent hike in income tax?
Very very easy
Get rid of the quangos and wastes of taxpayers monies

Root and branch review and revamp of civil service/public sector.
We don't need pen pushers in triplicate and duplicate in various roles

That easily gives us the money to fund the fixing of water system , it's upkeep etc.

Is personally be happy to pay a small charge but I suspect those who would vote against and win the referendum against the water charges wouldn't

Michael d actually didn't have to sign that bill by the way!!
Do enlighten us.
According to rte news on the day he signed it
So go ask them!
I'm asking you, given that you made the point.

He could have referred it to the Council of State and then on to the Supreme Court, of course. But only if he thought it was unconstitutional. I suppose he could have done so regardless of what he actually thought, but all it would do is delay the inevitable and make him look like he doesn't understand his role. Clearly there's nothing unconstitutional about the bill.
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill

I think you would find a majority of voters would vote against it - nothing more unconstitutional ( or undemocratic )  than putting through such a bill then.
I will state again that I'm not personally against it.
I'd be ok with it but I'd still like to see root and branch clear out if the deadwood in public sector /civil service
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on January 31, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill a

There was no reason to stop it.! You can't be stopping every minor revenue measure approved by the two houses of the Oireachtas because people are ranting about it.

Quote
I'd be ok with it but I'd still like to see root and branch clear out if the deadwood in public sector /civil service

Unless people vote for a government that will do this, it won't happen. Government carefully avoids any value or performance measures as it might inhibit pet projects. When pay talks resume, performance won't be a big item.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on January 31, 2015, 09:39:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2015, 01:14:04 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 01:04:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2015, 12:29:15 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 11:48:26 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2015, 08:05:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 01:08:25 AM
Couldn't Michael d have called for a referendum ?

The people may have voted these politicians in - but do you think a referendum would have agreed with their decision about water charges/tax?

Hiding behind those excuses is pathetic
No, Michael D couldn't have called for a referendum. He has absolutely no power to do so.

There are 2 triggers for a referendum in Ireland:
1 - a proposed change to the constitution
2 - what is called an 'ordinary referendum' - the president can call one of these if petitioned to by a Seanad majority and one third of the Dail, if it is deemed a matter of "such national importance" (which would appear to be a fairly subjective term, but you could probably argue its application here).

People really need to get an understanding of the constitution and the role of the President.

And anyway, imagine there was a referendum and the water bill was defeated, what then? The deficit still has to be closed. Do we have a referendum for the subsequent hike in income tax?
Very very easy
Get rid of the quangos and wastes of taxpayers monies

Root and branch review and revamp of civil service/public sector.
We don't need pen pushers in triplicate and duplicate in various roles

That easily gives us the money to fund the fixing of water system , it's upkeep etc.

Is personally be happy to pay a small charge but I suspect those who would vote against and win the referendum against the water charges wouldn't

Michael d actually didn't have to sign that bill by the way!!
Do enlighten us.
According to rte news on the day he signed it
So go ask them!
I'm asking you, given that you made the point.

He could have referred it to the Council of State and then on to the Supreme Court, of course. But only if he thought it was unconstitutional. I suppose he could have done so regardless of what he actually thought, but all it would do is delay the inevitable and make him look like he doesn't understand his role. Clearly there's nothing unconstitutional about the bill.
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill

I think you would find a major voters would vote against it - nothing more unconstitutional ( or undemocratic )  than putting through such a bill then.

I'm not admitting anything. In theory, he could delay every bill, convene the Council of State, refer it to the Supreme Court... but he'd have no justification for doing so.

The bit in bold just demonstrates that you don't know the meaning of the term "unconstitutional". You're getting confused with "unpopular".
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 31, 2015, 09:48:40 PM
Going by some of the idiocy above it seems we should only have taxes that people WANT to pay.
That would be great craic :D :D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on January 31, 2015, 10:28:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 31, 2015, 09:48:40 PM
Going by some of the idiocy above it seems we should only have taxes that people WANT to pay.
That would be great craic :D :D

No, of course not. We should only have taxes that other people pay.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 31, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill a

There was no reason to stop it.! You can't be stopping every minor revenue measure approved by the two houses of the Oireachtas because people are ranting about it.

Quote
I'd be ok with it but I'd still like to see root and branch clear out if the deadwood in public sector /civil service

Unless people vote for a government that will do this, it won't happen. Government carefully avoids any value or performance measures as it might inhibit pet projects. When pay talks resume, performance won't be a big item.
It isn't a minor revenue measure though is it!
Do you think it would get through a referendum?

I know that no gov will revamp and bring cost effective efficiency to the civil service for foreseeable future but it still should be done!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:42:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2015, 09:39:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2015, 01:14:04 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 01:04:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2015, 12:29:15 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 11:48:26 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2015, 08:05:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 01:08:25 AM
Couldn't Michael d have called for a referendum ?

The people may have voted these politicians in - but do you think a referendum would have agreed with their decision about water charges/tax?

Hiding behind those excuses is pathetic
No, Michael D couldn't have called for a referendum. He has absolutely no power to do so.

There are 2 triggers for a referendum in Ireland:
1 - a proposed change to the constitution
2 - what is called an 'ordinary referendum' - the president can call one of these if petitioned to by a Seanad majority and one third of the Dail, if it is deemed a matter of "such national importance" (which would appear to be a fairly subjective term, but you could probably argue its application here).

People really need to get an understanding of the constitution and the role of the President.

And anyway, imagine there was a referendum and the water bill was defeated, what then? The deficit still has to be closed. Do we have a referendum for the subsequent hike in income tax?
Very very easy
Get rid of the quangos and wastes of taxpayers monies

Root and branch review and revamp of civil service/public sector.
We don't need pen pushers in triplicate and duplicate in various roles

That easily gives us the money to fund the fixing of water system , it's upkeep etc.

Is personally be happy to pay a small charge but I suspect those who would vote against and win the referendum against the water charges wouldn't

Michael d actually didn't have to sign that bill by the way!!
Do enlighten us.
According to rte news on the day he signed it
So go ask them!
I'm asking you, given that you made the point.

He could have referred it to the Council of State and then on to the Supreme Court, of course. But only if he thought it was unconstitutional. I suppose he could have done so regardless of what he actually thought, but all it would do is delay the inevitable and make him look like he doesn't understand his role. Clearly there's nothing unconstitutional about the bill.
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill

I think you would find a major voters would vote against it - nothing more unconstitutional ( or undemocratic )  than putting through such a bill then.

I'm not admitting anything. In theory, he could delay every bill, convene the Council of State, refer it to the Supreme Court... but he'd have no justification for doing so.

The bit in bold just demonstrates that you don't know the meaning of the term "unconstitutional". You're getting confused with "unpopular".
Would be unconstitutional after a referendum declares it void legally!
Unless you think it would successfully be passed in a referendum?

Whether you now want t u turn or admit (?? Despite writing it above) it was a course of action he had open to him is all I am saying.
But he chose to go with his party preference rather than the will of the people as was his choice to do so!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on January 31, 2015, 11:43:57 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 31, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill a

There was no reason to stop it.! You can't be stopping every minor revenue measure approved by the two houses of the Oireachtas because people are ranting about it.

Quote
I'd be ok with it but I'd still like to see root and branch clear out if the deadwood in public sector /civil service

Unless people vote for a government that will do this, it won't happen. Government carefully avoids any value or performance measures as it might inhibit pet projects. When pay talks resume, performance won't be a big item.
It isn't a minor revenue measure though is it!
Do you think it would get through a referendum?

I know that no gov will revamp and bring cost effective efficiency to the civil service for foreseeable future but it still should be done!

The President doesn't have the power to call a referendum
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:45:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 31, 2015, 09:48:40 PM
Going by some of the idiocy above it seems we should only have taxes that people WANT to pay.
That would be great craic :D :D
Obv you are a lonely sad little person crying out for attention hence your little girly jibes at people.

Right I've 'noticed' you.
Can you now go on and do something positive with your life if you have nothing of note to say,

Meanwhile the rest of us may not agree or have different points of view but are man enough to discuss it.
Good luck in the junior cert
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 12:26:00 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:42:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2015, 09:39:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2015, 01:14:04 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 01:04:24 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2015, 12:29:15 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 11:48:26 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 30, 2015, 08:05:34 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 30, 2015, 01:08:25 AM
Couldn't Michael d have called for a referendum ?

The people may have voted these politicians in - but do you think a referendum would have agreed with their decision about water charges/tax?

Hiding behind those excuses is pathetic
No, Michael D couldn't have called for a referendum. He has absolutely no power to do so.

There are 2 triggers for a referendum in Ireland:
1 - a proposed change to the constitution
2 - what is called an 'ordinary referendum' - the president can call one of these if petitioned to by a Seanad majority and one third of the Dail, if it is deemed a matter of "such national importance" (which would appear to be a fairly subjective term, but you could probably argue its application here).

People really need to get an understanding of the constitution and the role of the President.

And anyway, imagine there was a referendum and the water bill was defeated, what then? The deficit still has to be closed. Do we have a referendum for the subsequent hike in income tax?
Very very easy
Get rid of the quangos and wastes of taxpayers monies

Root and branch review and revamp of civil service/public sector.
We don't need pen pushers in triplicate and duplicate in various roles

That easily gives us the money to fund the fixing of water system , it's upkeep etc.

Is personally be happy to pay a small charge but I suspect those who would vote against and win the referendum against the water charges wouldn't

Michael d actually didn't have to sign that bill by the way!!
Do enlighten us.
According to rte news on the day he signed it
So go ask them!
I'm asking you, given that you made the point.

He could have referred it to the Council of State and then on to the Supreme Court, of course. But only if he thought it was unconstitutional. I suppose he could have done so regardless of what he actually thought, but all it would do is delay the inevitable and make him look like he doesn't understand his role. Clearly there's nothing unconstitutional about the bill.
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill

I think you would find a major voters would vote against it - nothing more unconstitutional ( or undemocratic )  than putting through such a bill then.

I'm not admitting anything. In theory, he could delay every bill, convene the Council of State, refer it to the Supreme Court... but he'd have no justification for doing so.

The bit in bold just demonstrates that you don't know the meaning of the term "unconstitutional". You're getting confused with "unpopular".
Would be unconstitutional after a referendum declares it void legally!
Unless you think it would successfully be passed in a referendum?


Whether you now want t u turn or admit (?? Despite writing it above) it was a course of action he had open to him is all I am saying.
But he chose to go with his party preference rather than the will of the people as was his choice to do so!
That doesn't even make sense. There are no legal or constitutional grounds for a referendum. There won't be a referendum. If there was a referendum and the bill was rejected, then the bill wouldn't be passed from the Dail and Seanad to the President in the first place. You're creating these hypothetical scenarios that can't happen.

And the President had no choice. Unless he actually believed it was unconstitutional (and that means in conflict with the Constitution, not something that people don't like), he had no choice but to sign it. That's why there's no u-turn in what i'm saying. I set out the options the President has when he's presented with a bill in general terms, but when you actually apply the facts of this specific situation, he had one option.

The Irish Times spelt it out earlier in the week:
QuoteThese protests directed at Mr Higgins also show a complete lack of understanding of the powers and function of his office. The only role the President has in considering legislation is to assess, with the advice of the Council of State if he wishes, whether the Bill is constitutional. If he views a Bill to be constitutional he must sign it, irrespective of any view he might have on the policy reflected in it. If he has concerns about its constitutionality he can refer a Bill to the Supreme Court. The Bill relating to water services and water charges passed by the Oireachtas before Christmas may be controversial but it is not unconstitutional.
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/abusive-verbal-attacks-on-president-higgins-mark-a-new-low-in-political-discourse-1.2084446
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 12:28:27 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 31, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill a

There was no reason to stop it.! You can't be stopping every minor revenue measure approved by the two houses of the Oireachtas because people are ranting about it.

Quote
I'd be ok with it but I'd still like to see root and branch clear out if the deadwood in public sector /civil service

Unless people vote for a government that will do this, it won't happen. Government carefully avoids any value or performance measures as it might inhibit pet projects. When pay talks resume, performance won't be a big item.
It isn't a minor revenue measure though is it!
Do you think it would get through a referendum?
Seriously, apply that test to every piece of legislation that would result in a tax rise, new charge etc.
How many would pass a referendum?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 01:26:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 12:28:27 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 31, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill a

There was no reason to stop it.! You can't be stopping every minor revenue measure approved by the two houses of the Oireachtas because people are ranting about it.

Quote
I'd be ok with it but I'd still like to see root and branch clear out if the deadwood in public sector /civil service

Unless people vote for a government that will do this, it won't happen. Government carefully avoids any value or performance measures as it might inhibit pet projects. When pay talks resume, performance won't be a big item.
It isn't a minor revenue measure though is it!
Do you think it would get through a referendum?
Seriously, apply that test to every piece of legislation that would result in a tax rise, new charge etc.
How many would pass a referendum?
The abuse given Higgins has no relevance here

Do you not think that the will of the majority of the people should not be adhered to?
If it wasn't a majority then why no referendum to quell all this?

We are not talking about every piece of legislation - just the water one
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 01, 2015, 04:28:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 12:28:27 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 31, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill a

There was no reason to stop it.! You can't be stopping every minor revenue measure approved by the two houses of the Oireachtas because people are ranting about it.

Quote
I'd be ok with it but I'd still like to see root and branch clear out if the deadwood in public sector /civil service

Unless people vote for a government that will do this, it won't happen. Government carefully avoids any value or performance measures as it might inhibit pet projects. When pay talks resume, performance won't be a big item.
It isn't a minor revenue measure though is it!
Do you think it would get through a referendum?
Seriously, apply that test to every piece of legislation that would result in a tax rise, new charge etc.
How many would pass a referendum?

Making the water charge go through a referendum might actually force the entity to be set up correctly in the first place on a non-profit basis. It should be FOR the people at cost. You would have better chance of buy-in if you thought you weren't been taken for another ride, just like the property tax (another made-up charge to penalise home owners) and the bailout.

One of the biggest issues is that this resource is being sold off to private companies to make money (Corrib gas fields or M50 toll bridge anyone?). This is why it should be put to a vote to allow the local councils to relinquish control of a natural resource that is being handed over to a dodgy third party who report bonus issues before they even start. This resource belongs to the people, not the government. Why shouldn't they have a say?

I did love in the FG manifesto how they informed that they would bring in the water charges once local councils handed over control of water supplies. There wasn't even going to be a debate. DO'B probably had agreed this years ago.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on February 01, 2015, 05:52:13 AM
People said the same about Luas yet it's clearly better than CIE. Imagine if it was left to CIE to create that system. We've had Irish water publically run and it's a system where half the water is lost to leaks and we live in constant fear of getting a dose of the scutters from drinking a glass.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 01, 2015, 06:18:14 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 01, 2015, 05:52:13 AM
People said the same about Luas yet it's clearly better than CIE. Imagine if it was left to CIE to create that system. We've had Irish water publically run and it's a system where half the water is lost to leaks and we live in constant fear of getting a dose of the scutters from drinking a glass.

Big difference being that the luas isn't a natural resource that people use on a daily basis as a necessity - and they were able to start from scratch (and couldn't even get that right to ensure both sides of the luas actually joined at a point)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on February 01, 2015, 06:30:51 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2015, 06:18:14 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 01, 2015, 05:52:13 AM
People said the same about Luas yet it's clearly better than CIE. Imagine if it was left to CIE to create that system. We've had Irish water publically run and it's a system where half the water is lost to leaks and we live in constant fear of getting a dose of the scutters from drinking a glass.

Big difference being that the luas isn't a natural resource that people use on a daily basis as a necessity - and they were able to start from scratch (and couldn't even get that right to ensure both sides of the luas actually joined at a point)

Well in my county the water has been undrinkable for years. By the way lots of things are necessities including food, clothes, warmth, a roof over my head. We have a fair few in this country that expect the taxpayer to pay for all  their necessities. Maybe time for a referendum for taxpayers to see what they no longer want to fund.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 08:30:41 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 01:26:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 12:28:27 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 31, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill a

There was no reason to stop it.! You can't be stopping every minor revenue measure approved by the two houses of the Oireachtas because people are ranting about it.

Quote
I'd be ok with it but I'd still like to see root and branch clear out if the deadwood in public sector /civil service

Unless people vote for a government that will do this, it won't happen. Government carefully avoids any value or performance measures as it might inhibit pet projects. When pay talks resume, performance won't be a big item.
It isn't a minor revenue measure though is it!
Do you think it would get through a referendum?
Seriously, apply that test to every piece of legislation that would result in a tax rise, new charge etc.
How many would pass a referendum?
The abuse given Higgins has no relevance here

Do you not think that the will of the majority of the people should not be adhered to?
If it wasn't a majority then why no referendum to quell all this?

We are not talking about every piece of legislation - just the water one
But why just the water one? If you want to be sure of majority consent, then why not every bill? There's no logic to that argument.

The fact remains that the majority of people voted for parties that said they would introduce water charges.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 09:31:34 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2015, 04:28:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 12:28:27 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 31, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill a

There was no reason to stop it.! You can't be stopping every minor revenue measure approved by the two houses of the Oireachtas because people are ranting about it.

Quote
I'd be ok with it but I'd still like to see root and branch clear out if the deadwood in public sector /civil service

Unless people vote for a government that will do this, it won't happen. Government carefully avoids any value or performance measures as it might inhibit pet projects. When pay talks resume, performance won't be a big item.
It isn't a minor revenue measure though is it!
Do you think it would get through a referendum?
Seriously, apply that test to every piece of legislation that would result in a tax rise, new charge etc.
How many would pass a referendum?

Making the water charge go through a referendum might actually force the entity to be set up correctly in the first place on a non-profit basis. It should be FOR the people at cost. You would have better chance of buy-in if you thought you weren't been taken for another ride, just like the property tax (another made-up charge to penalise home owners) and the bailout.

One of the biggest issues is that this resource is being sold off to private companies to make money (Corrib gas fields or M50 toll bridge anyone?). This is why it should be put to a vote to allow the local councils to relinquish control of a natural resource that is being handed over to a dodgy third party who report bonus issues before they even start. This resource belongs to the people, not the government. Why shouldn't they have a say?

I did love in the FG manifesto how they informed that they would bring in the water charges once local councils handed over control of water supplies. There wasn't even going to be a debate. DO'B probably had agreed this years ago.
Seriously, the extent to which people are mis-informed on Irish Water is unbelievable.

Irish Water is NOT a private company. It is owned by the state. If there are any 'profits', they'll stay within the company and be used to invest in the network. There are no private shareholders. It's like An Post, CIE/Bus Eireann.... it's in public ownership.

Of course there is the possibility that Irish Water could be privatised at some point in the future (there is legislation to prevent this, but that legislation could be over-turned). It's something i'd strongly oppose. But it's a totally separate argument.

Centralising the management of water, taking it away from being managed by individual local councils made sense. Why would you manage water within small local boundaries? 34 different organisations trying to manage water and maintain infrastructure in a country the size of Ireland?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 11:24:42 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 08:30:41 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 01:26:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 12:28:27 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 31, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill a

There was no reason to stop it.! You can't be stopping every minor revenue measure approved by the two houses of the Oireachtas because people are ranting about it.

Quote
I'd be ok with it but I'd still like to see root and branch clear out if the deadwood in public sector /civil service

Unless people vote for a government that will do this, it won't happen. Government carefully avoids any value or performance measures as it might inhibit pet projects. When pay talks resume, performance won't be a big item.
It isn't a minor revenue measure though is it!
Do you think it would get through a referendum?
Seriously, apply that test to every piece of legislation that would result in a tax rise, new charge etc.
How many would pass a referendum?
The abuse given Higgins has no relevance here

Do you not think that the will of the majority of the people should not be adhered to?
If it wasn't a majority then why no referendum to quell all this?

We are not talking about every piece of legislation - just the water one
But why just the water one? If you want to be sure of majority consent, then why not every bill? There's no logic to that argument.

The fact remains that the majority of people voted for parties that said they would introduce water charges.
If you had asked me the question, I'd have said fg promised to not bring in water charges in their pre election manifesto. From your reply their it might appear that's incorrect.

We are only talking about water charges here and it is a significant issue. Is it any less than gay rights to marraige? Etc . I'd say it's more important and affects exponentially more people- all people. So the feet on the street show that my assessment is correct.
People , the majority I'd say, want a referendum and don't want water charges.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 01, 2015, 11:30:35 AM
Marriage is a fundamental unit of society and fiddling with it affects everyone. Whether water is paid as a separate charge or lumped in with tax isn't of any great importance in the overall scheme of things.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 11:38:23 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 09:31:34 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2015, 04:28:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 12:28:27 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 31, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill a

There was no reason to stop it.! You can't be stopping every minor revenue measure approved by the two houses of the Oireachtas because people are ranting about it.

Quote
I'd be ok with it but I'd still like to see root and branch clear out if the deadwood in public sector /civil service

Unless people vote for a government that will do this, it won't happen. Government carefully avoids any value or performance measures as it might inhibit pet projects. When pay talks resume, performance won't be a big item.
It isn't a minor revenue measure though is it!
Do you think it would get through a referendum?
Seriously, apply that test to every piece of legislation that would result in a tax rise, new charge etc.
How many would pass a referendum?

Making the water charge go through a referendum might actually force the entity to be set up correctly in the first place on a non-profit basis. It should be FOR the people at cost. You would have better chance of buy-in if you thought you weren't been taken for another ride, just like the property tax (another made-up charge to penalise home owners) and the bailout.

One of the biggest issues is that this resource is being sold off to private companies to make money (Corrib gas fields or M50 toll bridge anyone?). This is why it should be put to a vote to allow the local councils to relinquish control of a natural resource that is being handed over to a dodgy third party who report bonus issues before they even start. This resource belongs to the people, not the government. Why shouldn't they have a say?

I did love in the FG manifesto how they informed that they would bring in the water charges once local councils handed over control of water supplies. There wasn't even going to be a debate. DO'B probably had agreed this years ago.
Seriously, the extent to which people are mis-informed on Irish Water is unbelievable.

Irish Water is NOT a private company. It is owned by the state. If there are any 'profits', they'll stay within the company and be used to invest in the network. There are no private shareholders. It's like An Post, CIE/Bus Eireann.... it's in public ownership.

Of course there is the possibility that Irish Water could be privatised at some point in the future (there is legislation to prevent this, but that legislation could be over-turned). It's something i'd strongly oppose. But it's a totally separate argument.

Centralising the management of water, taking it away from being managed by individual local councils made sense. Why would you manage water within small local boundaries? 34 different organisations trying to manage water and maintain infrastructure in a country the size of Ireland?
Lol
You should think about that!!

The public sector /semi-state companies have such a great track record of service and managing their offerings ..... So you aren't setting high expectations here for be by reading that!!
Actually it's quite demotivating!!

If set up properly and ran properly okie a business, with proper waged salaries and none of this bonus rubbish and scurrilous working contract practices in the other semi states/public sector that has been applied to the contracts of Irish water workers..... Plus that most water employees are ex public sector/semi state employees ... Well it's fatally flawed and holed beneath the water line already!

What part of this whole undertaking was done any way properly or professionally?
It has been a farce! From project requirements gathering, funding, ott consultants, over and under speccing things, poor company structure, poor employee contract /work/pay structure-
Then the wonderful customer campaign!

How not to do it !!!..... This would be the example case to all future undertakings!

Don't even joke about future privatization!!

I know you are only standing up for your fg ! But it has been a fiasco from start to finish - irrespective of any good intentions.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 11:39:58 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 01, 2015, 11:30:35 AM
Marriage is a fundamental unit of society and fiddling with it affects everyone. Whether water is paid as a separate charge or lumped in with tax isn't of any great importance in the overall scheme of things.
You won't die from not getting married

So while I understand your point

I can't agree that it is anyway near as important
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on February 01, 2015, 02:16:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 09:31:34 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2015, 04:28:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 12:28:27 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 31, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill a

There was no reason to stop it.! You can't be stopping every minor revenue measure approved by the two houses of the Oireachtas because people are ranting about it.

Quote
I'd be ok with it but I'd still like to see root and branch clear out if the deadwood in public sector /civil service

Unless people vote for a government that will do this, it won't happen. Government carefully avoids any value or performance measures as it might inhibit pet projects. When pay talks resume, performance won't be a big item.
It isn't a minor revenue measure though is it!
Do you think it would get through a referendum?
Seriously, apply that test to every piece of legislation that would result in a tax rise, new charge etc.
How many would pass a referendum?

Making the water charge go through a referendum might actually force the entity to be set up correctly in the first place on a non-profit basis. It should be FOR the people at cost. You would have better chance of buy-in if you thought you weren't been taken for another ride, just like the property tax (another made-up charge to penalise home owners) and the bailout.

One of the biggest issues is that this resource is being sold off to private companies to make money (Corrib gas fields or M50 toll bridge anyone?). This is why it should be put to a vote to allow the local councils to relinquish control of a natural resource that is being handed over to a dodgy third party who report bonus issues before they even start. This resource belongs to the people, not the government. Why shouldn't they have a say?

I did love in the FG manifesto how they informed that they would bring in the water charges once local councils handed over control of water supplies. There wasn't even going to be a debate. DO'B probably had agreed this years ago.
Seriously, the extent to which people are mis-informed on Irish Water is unbelievable.

Irish Water is NOT a private company. It is owned by the state. If there are any 'profits', they'll stay within the company and be used to invest in the network. There are no private shareholders. It's like An Post, CIE/Bus Eireann.... it's in public ownership.

Of course there is the possibility that Irish Water could be privatised at some point in the future (there is legislation to prevent this, but that legislation could be over-turned). It's something i'd strongly oppose. But it's a totally separate argument.

Centralising the management of water, taking it away from being managed by individual local councils made sense. Why would you manage water within small local boundaries? 34 different organisations trying to manage water and maintain infrastructure in a country the size of Ireland?
I totally agree with that and I imagine that the rest of the civilised world, with the singular exception   of the board of Irish Water and  the present coalition partners, also concur.
I think it's fair to assume that in the absence of facts, rumours will abound whenever a matter of public concern arises and neither of the guilty parties took any heed whatsoever of the publics' concerns and if ever we had a case of talking down rather than talking to the Plain People of Ireland, this was it.

We heard more about the levels of bonuses and perks but sweet damn all justification for all or any of this. Bedad, there were going to be goodies for everyone including those whose work was not satisfactory. Now, whether or not we were getting the fullls tory is immeterial, the fact is that no one tried to justify the pay scales while the mood of public apprehension and anger mounted by the day.
In no particular we found out that €50 m had been spent on software development. No attempt was made to put this figure in context or to attempt to justify the expenditure in any way. We were told the cost and that was it. Full stop!
We were also told that €250 m had been spent on hiring special advisers and also I think on infrastructural development. The Paul Murphys and the RB Barretts of this world went to town on those figures and again there was no counter argument forthcoming.
Then we were told that around 6 or 7,000 ex-employees of Bord Gais were being added to the payroll. There was no work for them but John Tierney made one of his (very) rare statements when he announced that we needn't worry as the majority were approaching pension age and would be gone inside 5 or 6 years.
Somewhere along the line, we found out that it would cost €181 per hour if an Irish Water tradesman was called out to fix a leak in one's garden, rising to €256 at weekends. again, no govt or board spokesperson tried to justify the charges.
Of course the anti-water charge campaigners were going to town in their criticisms of what was going on and who could blame them?
Then to cap it all, the tariffs to be charged were arrived at, not by a reasoned analysis of what was needed and how much people could realistically afford to pay, but after a last-minute bout of political horse trading between FG and Labour just before the local elections.
So Enda said that Paddy is not for turning but he's finding out to his cost that he assumed a little too much about the gullibility and subservience of the public at large.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 03:06:03 PM
As I said Lar , the project has been a disaster from the start inc communication.
Btw there should be no bonuses etc. These apart from sales dept's are uncommon and unnecessary in salaried industry.
The first thing that needs done is to fix the disasterous leaky water pipe system in Dublin and beyond
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 06:04:51 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 11:38:23 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 09:31:34 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2015, 04:28:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 12:28:27 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 31, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill a

There was no reason to stop it.! You can't be stopping every minor revenue measure approved by the two houses of the Oireachtas because people are ranting about it.

Quote
I'd be ok with it but I'd still like to see root and branch clear out if the deadwood in public sector /civil service

Unless people vote for a government that will do this, it won't happen. Government carefully avoids any value or performance measures as it might inhibit pet projects. When pay talks resume, performance won't be a big item.
It isn't a minor revenue measure though is it!
Do you think it would get through a referendum?
Seriously, apply that test to every piece of legislation that would result in a tax rise, new charge etc.
How many would pass a referendum?

Making the water charge go through a referendum might actually force the entity to be set up correctly in the first place on a non-profit basis. It should be FOR the people at cost. You would have better chance of buy-in if you thought you weren't been taken for another ride, just like the property tax (another made-up charge to penalise home owners) and the bailout.

One of the biggest issues is that this resource is being sold off to private companies to make money (Corrib gas fields or M50 toll bridge anyone?). This is why it should be put to a vote to allow the local councils to relinquish control of a natural resource that is being handed over to a dodgy third party who report bonus issues before they even start. This resource belongs to the people, not the government. Why shouldn't they have a say?

I did love in the FG manifesto how they informed that they would bring in the water charges once local councils handed over control of water supplies. There wasn't even going to be a debate. DO'B probably had agreed this years ago.
Seriously, the extent to which people are mis-informed on Irish Water is unbelievable.

Irish Water is NOT a private company. It is owned by the state. If there are any 'profits', they'll stay within the company and be used to invest in the network. There are no private shareholders. It's like An Post, CIE/Bus Eireann.... it's in public ownership.

Of course there is the possibility that Irish Water could be privatised at some point in the future (there is legislation to prevent this, but that legislation could be over-turned). It's something i'd strongly oppose. But it's a totally separate argument.

Centralising the management of water, taking it away from being managed by individual local councils made sense. Why would you manage water within small local boundaries? 34 different organisations trying to manage water and maintain infrastructure in a country the size of Ireland?
Lol
You should think about that!!

The public sector /semi-state companies have such a great track record of service and managing their offerings ..... So you aren't setting high expectations here for be by reading that!!
Actually it's quite demotivating!!

If set up properly and ran properly okie a business, with proper waged salaries and none of this bonus rubbish and scurrilous working contract practices in the other semi states/public sector that has been applied to the contracts of Irish water workers..... Plus that most water employees are ex public sector/semi state employees ... Well it's fatally flawed and holed beneath the water line already!

What part of this whole undertaking was done any way properly or professionally?
It has been a farce! From project requirements gathering, funding, ott consultants, over and under speccing things, poor company structure, poor employee contract /work/pay structure-
Then the wonderful customer campaign!

How not to do it !!!..... This would be the example case to all future undertakings!

Don't even joke about future privatization!!

I know you are only standing up for your fg ! But it has been a fiasco from start to finish - irrespective of any good intentions.
You're starting a completely new debate. Probably to deflect from your lack of understanding on the point that was being discussed. Although i'm not clear where you're going - it sounds like an argument for privatisation, given your low opinion/expectations of the public sector and semi-states.

And I have never argued that this whole issue was well handled - it clearly hasn't. I'm in no way standing up for FG - I think they've been an absolute disaster in this regard. Your attempt to misrepresent me is a cheap shot. All i've been doing on this discussion is pointing out the constitutional position.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 06:42:24 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 06:04:51 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 11:38:23 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 09:31:34 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2015, 04:28:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 12:28:27 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 31, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill a

There was no reason to stop it.! You can't be stopping every minor revenue measure approved by the two houses of the Oireachtas because people are ranting about it.

Quote
I'd be ok with it but I'd still like to see root and branch clear out if the deadwood in public sector /civil service

Unless people vote for a government that will do this, it won't happen. Government carefully avoids any value or performance measures as it might inhibit pet projects. When pay talks resume, performance won't be a big item.
It isn't a minor revenue measure though is it!
Do you think it would get through a referendum?
Seriously, apply that test to every piece of legislation that would result in a tax rise, new charge etc.
How many would pass a referendum?

Making the water charge go through a referendum might actually force the entity to be set up correctly in the first place on a non-profit basis. It should be FOR the people at cost. You would have better chance of buy-in if you thought you weren't been taken for another ride, just like the property tax (another made-up charge to penalise home owners) and the bailout.

One of the biggest issues is that this resource is being sold off to private companies to make money (Corrib gas fields or M50 toll bridge anyone?). This is why it should be put to a vote to allow the local councils to relinquish control of a natural resource that is being handed over to a dodgy third party who report bonus issues before they even start. This resource belongs to the people, not the government. Why shouldn't they have a say?

I did love in the FG manifesto how they informed that they would bring in the water charges once local councils handed over control of water supplies. There wasn't even going to be a debate. DO'B probably had agreed this years ago.
Seriously, the extent to which people are mis-informed on Irish Water is unbelievable.

Irish Water is NOT a private company. It is owned by the state. If there are any 'profits', they'll stay within the company and be used to invest in the network. There are no private shareholders. It's like An Post, CIE/Bus Eireann.... it's in public ownership.

Of course there is the possibility that Irish Water could be privatised at some point in the future (there is legislation to prevent this, but that legislation could be over-turned). It's something i'd strongly oppose. But it's a totally separate argument.

Centralising the management of water, taking it away from being managed by individual local councils made sense. Why would you manage water within small local boundaries? 34 different organisations trying to manage water and maintain infrastructure in a country the size of Ireland?
Lol
You should think about that!!

The public sector /semi-state companies have such a great track record of service and managing their offerings ..... So you aren't setting high expectations here for be by reading that!!
Actually it's quite demotivating!!

If set up properly and ran properly okie a business, with proper waged salaries and none of this bonus rubbish and scurrilous working contract practices in the other semi states/public sector that has been applied to the contracts of Irish water workers..... Plus that most water employees are ex public sector/semi state employees ... Well it's fatally flawed and holed beneath the water line already!

What part of this whole undertaking was done any way properly or professionally?
It has been a farce! From project requirements gathering, funding, ott consultants, over and under speccing things, poor company structure, poor employee contract /work/pay structure-
Then the wonderful customer campaign!

How not to do it !!!..... This would be the example case to all future undertakings!

Don't even joke about future privatization!!

I know you are only standing up for your fg ! But it has been a fiasco from start to finish - irrespective of any good intentions.
You're starting a completely new debate. Probably to deflect from your lack of understanding on the point that was being discussed. Although i'm not clear where you're going - it sounds like an argument for privatisation, given your low opinion/expectations of the public sector and semi-states.

And I have never argued that this whole issue was well handled - it clearly hasn't. I'm in no way standing up for FG - I think they've been an absolute disaster in this regard. Your attempt to misrepresent me is a cheap shot. All i've been doing on this discussion is pointing out the constitutional position.
You brought up privatization not me - so if anyone was deflecting it's you!
You've admitted my point that Higgins had alternatives.
But do you think that 'if' a referendum about the water charges came up - would it be defeated by the majority or not?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 07:28:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 06:42:24 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 06:04:51 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 11:38:23 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 09:31:34 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 01, 2015, 04:28:07 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 12:28:27 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 31, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
So you now admit he could have stopped it and there were ways and means of stopping the bill a

There was no reason to stop it.! You can't be stopping every minor revenue measure approved by the two houses of the Oireachtas because people are ranting about it.

Quote
I'd be ok with it but I'd still like to see root and branch clear out if the deadwood in public sector /civil service

Unless people vote for a government that will do this, it won't happen. Government carefully avoids any value or performance measures as it might inhibit pet projects. When pay talks resume, performance won't be a big item.
It isn't a minor revenue measure though is it!
Do you think it would get through a referendum?
Seriously, apply that test to every piece of legislation that would result in a tax rise, new charge etc.
How many would pass a referendum?

Making the water charge go through a referendum might actually force the entity to be set up correctly in the first place on a non-profit basis. It should be FOR the people at cost. You would have better chance of buy-in if you thought you weren't been taken for another ride, just like the property tax (another made-up charge to penalise home owners) and the bailout.

One of the biggest issues is that this resource is being sold off to private companies to make money (Corrib gas fields or M50 toll bridge anyone?). This is why it should be put to a vote to allow the local councils to relinquish control of a natural resource that is being handed over to a dodgy third party who report bonus issues before they even start. This resource belongs to the people, not the government. Why shouldn't they have a say?

I did love in the FG manifesto how they informed that they would bring in the water charges once local councils handed over control of water supplies. There wasn't even going to be a debate. DO'B probably had agreed this years ago.
Seriously, the extent to which people are mis-informed on Irish Water is unbelievable.

Irish Water is NOT a private company. It is owned by the state. If there are any 'profits', they'll stay within the company and be used to invest in the network. There are no private shareholders. It's like An Post, CIE/Bus Eireann.... it's in public ownership.

Of course there is the possibility that Irish Water could be privatised at some point in the future (there is legislation to prevent this, but that legislation could be over-turned). It's something i'd strongly oppose. But it's a totally separate argument.

Centralising the management of water, taking it away from being managed by individual local councils made sense. Why would you manage water within small local boundaries? 34 different organisations trying to manage water and maintain infrastructure in a country the size of Ireland?
Lol
You should think about that!!

The public sector /semi-state companies have such a great track record of service and managing their offerings ..... So you aren't setting high expectations here for be by reading that!!
Actually it's quite demotivating!!

If set up properly and ran properly okie a business, with proper waged salaries and none of this bonus rubbish and scurrilous working contract practices in the other semi states/public sector that has been applied to the contracts of Irish water workers..... Plus that most water employees are ex public sector/semi state employees ... Well it's fatally flawed and holed beneath the water line already!

What part of this whole undertaking was done any way properly or professionally?
It has been a farce! From project requirements gathering, funding, ott consultants, over and under speccing things, poor company structure, poor employee contract /work/pay structure-
Then the wonderful customer campaign!

How not to do it !!!..... This would be the example case to all future undertakings!

Don't even joke about future privatization!!

I know you are only standing up for your fg ! But it has been a fiasco from start to finish - irrespective of any good intentions.
You're starting a completely new debate. Probably to deflect from your lack of understanding on the point that was being discussed. Although i'm not clear where you're going - it sounds like an argument for privatisation, given your low opinion/expectations of the public sector and semi-states.

And I have never argued that this whole issue was well handled - it clearly hasn't. I'm in no way standing up for FG - I think they've been an absolute disaster in this regard. Your attempt to misrepresent me is a cheap shot. All i've been doing on this discussion is pointing out the constitutional position.
You brought up privatization not me - so if anyone was deflecting it's you!
You've admitted my point that Higgins had alternatives.
But do you think that 'if' a referendum about the water charges came up - would it be defeated by the majority or not?
I made reference to privatisation in response to another poster who seemed to be of the opinion that Irish Water operating to make profits for private shareholders.

In general terms, the President has a number of options when presented with a bill. In reality, in this situation, he had one option.

A referendum on water charges would no doubt be defeated. As would a referendum on just about every tax or charge. But that's totally irrelevant, so I don't know why you persist with it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 07:34:21 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 11:24:42 AM
We are only talking about water charges here and it is a significant issue. Is it any less than gay rights to marraige? Etc . I'd say it's more important and affects exponentially more people- all people. So the feet on the street show that my assessment is correct.
People , the majority I'd say, want a referendum and don't want water charges.
Again, totally missing the point. Whether marriage equality is more or less significant than water charges is totally irrelevant.

The courts have deemed that same sex marriage is unconstitutional and therefore in order to legislate for it, a change the Constitution is required. Any change to the constitution requires a referendum.
The introduction of water charges is not unconstitutional, therefore there is no requirement for a referendum.

It's that straightforward.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 01, 2015, 10:37:37 PM
Latest poll:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8tqnyBCEAAi_SG.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 10:45:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 07:34:21 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 11:24:42 AM
We are only talking about water charges here and it is a significant issue. Is it any less than gay rights to marraige? Etc . I'd say it's more important and affects exponentially more people- all people. So the feet on the street show that my assessment is correct.
People , the majority I'd say, want a referendum and don't want water charges.
Again, totally missing the point. Whether marriage equality is more or less significant than water charges is totally irrelevant.

The courts have deemed that same sex marriage is unconstitutional and therefore in order to legislate for it, a change the Constitution is required. Any change to the constitution requires a referendum.
The introduction of water charges is not unconstitutional, therefore there is no requirement for a referendum.

It's that straightforward.
You've agreed with the points I was making that the president had the ability to stop the bill and that such a referendum would be defeated.

Unconstitutional due to being Undemocratic
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 11:11:18 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 10:45:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 01, 2015, 07:34:21 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 11:24:42 AM
We are only talking about water charges here and it is a significant issue. Is it any less than gay rights to marraige? Etc . I'd say it's more important and affects exponentially more people- all people. So the feet on the street show that my assessment is correct.
People , the majority I'd say, want a referendum and don't want water charges.
Again, totally missing the point. Whether marriage equality is more or less significant than water charges is totally irrelevant.

The courts have deemed that same sex marriage is unconstitutional and therefore in order to legislate for it, a change the Constitution is required. Any change to the constitution requires a referendum.
The introduction of water charges is not unconstitutional, therefore there is no requirement for a referendum.

It's that straightforward.
You've agreed with the points I was making that the president had the ability to stop the bill and that such a referendum would be defeated.

Unconstitutional due to being Undemocratic
I didn't agree that the President could stop the bill. He could delay a bill under certain circumstances and refer it to the Supreme Court. Those circumstances didn't exist for this bill.

And that's not what unconstitutional means. If you can't grasp that, there's little point.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on February 02, 2015, 03:46:45 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 03:06:03 PM
As I said Lar , the project has been a disaster from the start inc communication.
Btw there should be no bonuses etc. These apart from sales dept's are uncommon and unnecessary in salaried industry.
The first thing that needs done is to fix the disasterous leaky water pipe system in Dublin and beyond

Lynchbhoy, the reason that Irish Water is full of ex-public servants/semi-staters is because they were TUPE'd in, their jobs were moved from one body to the other and as such that body had to take on the employees, that law is there to protect workers rights. It's the exact same reason that there are bonuses in IW, some of the contracts would have had bonuses (going back to Bertie's give them what they want to shut them up days) and these had to be protected under TUPE also.

Also the president could only agree with the council of state (ex taoisigh and Chief justices) to send the law for judisical review, check its constitutionality. After this the law could never again be questioned in court. This has happened a handful of times in the state, clearly they did not feel it was unconstitutional.

As someone said, a lot of misinformed people
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 02, 2015, 05:52:49 PM
2 in particular here and those scumbags who abused Ml D.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 02, 2015, 09:13:17 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on February 02, 2015, 03:46:45 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 03:06:03 PM
As I said Lar , the project has been a disaster from the start inc communication.
Btw there should be no bonuses etc. These apart from sales dept's are uncommon and unnecessary in salaried industry.
The first thing that needs done is to fix the disasterous leaky water pipe system in Dublin and beyond

Lynchbhoy, the reason that Irish Water is full of ex-public servants/semi-staters is because they were TUPE'd in, their jobs were moved from one body to the other and as such that body had to take on the employees, that law is there to protect workers rights. It's the exact same reason that there are bonuses in IW, some of the contracts would have had bonuses (going back to Bertie's give them what they want to shut them up days) and these had to be protected under TUPE also.

Also the president could only agree with the council of state (ex taoisigh and Chief justices) to send the law for judisical review, check its constitutionality. After this the law could never again be questioned in court. This has happened a handful of times in the state, clearly they did not feel it was unconstitutional.

As someone said, a lot of misinformed people
It didn't have to be staffed by ex public servants though!
It was /is a new entity!

For all the word play , it is not the will of the people.
But I've paid! But tell me that this would be passed by a referendum!!!!!!
Then carry on with any discussion!
Plenty here just don't get the simple truth!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 02, 2015, 09:26:42 PM
It would be ridiculous to set up Irish Water without hiring the people currently running the system, what would you then do with these people.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 02, 2015, 10:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2015, 09:26:42 PM
It would be ridiculous to set up Irish Water without hiring the people currently running the system, what would you then do with these people.
Same as you do in normal commercial business ( what should happen in aerlingus)
Cherry pick the cream to lead the company and hire additional baggage free staff in to work hard and efficiently

Those who don't make the cut - do what happens all other public sector workers, subsume them into departments that require staff.
Either that or they quit.
That this question is even coming up shows how much the tail wags the dog in too much of Irish 'work culture'. Too many sheep following blindly and no progressive thinking or leadership save from a few like Michael Oleary Dermot Desmond etc.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on February 02, 2015, 11:24:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2015, 09:26:42 PM
It would be ridiculous to set up Irish Water without hiring the people currently running the system, what would you then do with these people.
That is precisely the problem.
The answer appears to be nothing!
From what was said when the controversy arose was that a few thousand ex-Bord Gais employees would be seconded to Irish Water even though there was no work for them. They'd be on the payroll but idle until they retired.
That didn't go down well with the public at large.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on February 02, 2015, 11:54:51 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 02, 2015, 09:13:17 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on February 02, 2015, 03:46:45 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 03:06:03 PM
As I said Lar , the project has been a disaster from the start inc communication.
Btw there should be no bonuses etc. These apart from sales dept's are uncommon and unnecessary in salaried industry.
The first thing that needs done is to fix the disasterous leaky water pipe system in Dublin and beyond

Lynchbhoy, the reason that Irish Water is full of ex-public servants/semi-staters is because they were TUPE'd in, their jobs were moved from one body to the other and as such that body had to take on the employees, that law is there to protect workers rights. It's the exact same reason that there are bonuses in IW, some of the contracts would have had bonuses (going back to Bertie's give them what they want to shut them up days) and these had to be protected under TUPE also.

Also the president could only agree with the council of state (ex taoisigh and Chief justices) to send the law for judisical review, check its constitutionality. After this the law could never again be questioned in court. This has happened a handful of times in the state, clearly they did not feel it was unconstitutional.

As someone said, a lot of misinformed people
It didn't have to be staffed by ex public servants though!
It was /is a new entity!

For all the word play , it is not the will of the people.
But I've paid! But tell me that this would be passed by a referendum!!!!!!
Then carry on with any discussion!
Plenty here just don't get the simple truth!

It's you that doesn't get the simple truth. The president CAN NOT stop a bill. CAN NOT STOP A BILL. Simple as. Stop talking shite about referenda and 'will of the people'. You are spewing bullshit. You elected a party to govern you that promised to bring in water charges in their manifesto. Maguire said it wouldn't pass if put to the people in your mythical referendum so please give over about it. Jaysus but you can be an awful scunderin hoor.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 03, 2015, 05:49:16 AM
This had got me thinking about the last election. The people of Roscommon were told that their local A&E wouldn't be closed down by politicians from a particular party who get duly elected on the back of this promise.

The A&E closed. The voters were lied to by their representatives of this party and now they have to wait another 4 years for democracy. In the meantime their elected representatives can do whatever they like. Please feel free to point out how this is the democratic process at work.

There is where the problem lies. You rely on elected politicians to do the right thing which they tend not to once they get into power. There is no accountability for their actions and no-one to stop them. Fine Gael promised in their manifesto that this was one of the issues to be tackled.

Franko, as I have pointed out water charges were mentioned in the manifesto, down the back of the booklet and very ambiguous.

What surprises me most about the 26 county irish population is the willingness to accept the orders of the rulers over and over again. Those who question or challenge these elite are "scumbags" (as viewed by rossfan). It's pretty much Stockholm Syndrome. No wonder Britain had no issue overrunning the place.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on February 03, 2015, 08:32:36 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 03, 2015, 05:49:16 AM
This had got me thinking about the last election. The people of Roscommon were told that their local A&E wouldn't be closed down by politicians from a particular party who get duly elected on the back of this promise.

The A&E closed. The voters were lied to by their representatives of this party and now they have to wait another 4 years for democracy. In the meantime their elected representatives can do whatever they like. Please feel free to point out how this is the democratic process at work.

Please feel free to point out how the appropriate response to a failure to implement measures promised in the manifesto is to campaign against the implementation of a measure promised in the manifesto.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on February 03, 2015, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 02, 2015, 10:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2015, 09:26:42 PM
It would be ridiculous to set up Irish Water without hiring the people currently running the system, what would you then do with these people.
Same as you do in normal commercial business ( what should happen in aerlingus)
Cherry pick the cream to lead the company and hire additional baggage free staff in to work hard and efficiently

Those who don't make the cut - do what happens all other public sector workers, subsume them into departments that require staff.
Either that or they quit.
That this question is even coming up shows how much the tail wags the dog in too much of Irish 'work culture'. Too many sheep following blindly and no progressive thinking or leadership save from a few like Michael Oleary Dermot Desmond etc.

Lynchbhoy, you're not really grasping the TUPE concept. Whether you are public or private sector and you take over a business you are legally obliged to take the staff that comes with them, it's the law. You can't cherry pick, you can't take half, you have to take all, look it up, it's the LAW!

What Micheal O'Leary would do is make half of them redundant, the government doesn't do compulsory redundancy, it would lead to all out strikes from the public sector, something we can't afford. So they will probably give voluntary redundancy, the problem there is it's never the useless f**kers that take that, only the good ones who will get a job elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on February 03, 2015, 09:52:22 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on February 03, 2015, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 02, 2015, 10:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2015, 09:26:42 PM
It would be ridiculous to set up Irish Water without hiring the people currently running the system, what would you then do with these people.
Same as you do in normal commercial business ( what should happen in aerlingus)
Cherry pick the cream to lead the company and hire additional baggage free staff in to work hard and efficiently

Those who don't make the cut - do what happens all other public sector workers, subsume them into departments that require staff.
Either that or they quit.
That this question is even coming up shows how much the tail wags the dog in too much of Irish 'work culture'. Too many sheep following blindly and no progressive thinking or leadership save from a few like Michael Oleary Dermot Desmond etc.

Lynchbhoy, you're not really grasping the TUPE concept. Whether you are public or private sector and you take over a business you are legally obliged to take the staff that comes with them, it's the law. You can't cherry pick, you can't take half, you have to take all, look it up, it's the LAW!

What Micheal O'Leary would do is make half of them redundant, the government doesn't do compulsory redundancy, it would lead to all out strikes from the public sector, something we can't afford. So they will probably give voluntary redundancy, the problem there is it's never the useless f**kers that take that, only the good ones who will get a job elsewhere.

Precisely! And you're left with the bone-idle fckers who know they're on a good number and won't get it as cushy anywhere else.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 03, 2015, 10:14:26 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 03, 2015, 05:49:16 AM
What surprises me most about the 26 county irish population is the willingness to accept the orders of the rulers over and over again. Those who question or challenge these elite are "scumbags" (as viewed by rossfan). It's pretty much Stockholm Syndrome. No wonder Britain had no issue overrunning the place.

I don't think you understand democracy. The people vote for representatives and these legislate, those who challenge the authority  of the people are in scumbags. Now I am as pissed off as anyone else about the incompetent and venal nature of Irish politicians, but they are allowed get away with this because of the superficial analysis of issues and this water campaign with its risible claims of paying for things twice and so on does nothing to improve the situation, quite the reverse.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 03, 2015, 10:38:41 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 03, 2015, 09:52:22 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on February 03, 2015, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 02, 2015, 10:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2015, 09:26:42 PM
It would be ridiculous to set up Irish Water without hiring the people currently running the system, what would you then do with these people.
Same as you do in normal commercial business ( what should happen in aerlingus)
Cherry pick the cream to lead the company and hire additional baggage free staff in to work hard and efficiently

Those who don't make the cut - do what happens all other public sector workers, subsume them into departments that require staff.
Either that or they quit.
That this question is even coming up shows how much the tail wags the dog in too much of Irish 'work culture'. Too many sheep following blindly and no progressive thinking or leadership save from a few like Michael Oleary Dermot Desmond etc.

Lynchbhoy, you're not really grasping the TUPE concept. Whether you are public or private sector and you take over a business you are legally obliged to take the staff that comes with them, it's the law. You can't cherry pick, you can't take half, you have to take all, look it up, it's the LAW!

What Micheal O'Leary would do is make half of them redundant, the government doesn't do compulsory redundancy, it would lead to all out strikes from the public sector, something we can't afford. So they will probably give voluntary redundancy, the problem there is it's never the useless f**kers that take that, only the good ones who will get a job elsewhere.

Precisely! And you're left with the bone-idle fckers who know they're on a good number and won't get it as cushy anywhere else.

Exactly but if the govt haven't introduced any measures to sack useless civil servants in the last few years, we'll never see it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 03, 2015, 11:09:12 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 03, 2015, 10:14:26 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 03, 2015, 05:49:16 AM
What surprises me most about the 26 county irish population is the willingness to accept the orders of the rulers over and over again. Those who question or challenge these elite are "scumbags" (as viewed by rossfan). It's pretty much Stockholm Syndrome. No wonder Britain had no issue overrunning the place.

I don't think you understand democracy. The people vote for representatives and these legislate, those who challenge the authority  of the people are in scumbags. Now I am as pissed off as anyone else about the incompetent and venal nature of Irish politicians, but they are allowed get away with this because of the superficial analysis of issues and this water campaign with its risible claims of paying for things twice and so on does nothing to improve the situation, quite the reverse.
Armagh - it's worse than trying to talk to a child -at least the child will grow up and become reasonably intelligent at some stage.
The "Rulers" are those elected by a majority of the people - not Divine right monarchs.
As for opposition to Water Charges - what percentage of the 4.6m people who live in the 26 protested last Saturday?
Why weren't they protesting in 2010 when Water Charges and domestic property tax were included as a condition of the Bailout?
The kind of cnuts who go about attacking meter installers( installing them in the public footpaths), kidnapping Govt ministers, abusing the President etc are nothing but SCUMBAGS.
Now let's all grow up in this feckin Country and realise if we want to be an Independent State -we have to pay for it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on February 03, 2015, 11:26:39 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on February 03, 2015, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 02, 2015, 10:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2015, 09:26:42 PM
It would be ridiculous to set up Irish Water without hiring the people currently running the system, what would you then do with these people.
Same as you do in normal commercial business ( what should happen in aerlingus)
Cherry pick the cream to lead the company and hire additional baggage free staff in to work hard and efficiently

Those who don't make the cut - do what happens all other public sector workers, subsume them into departments that require staff.
Either that or they quit.
That this question is even coming up shows how much the tail wags the dog in too much of Irish 'work culture'. Too many sheep following blindly and no progressive thinking or leadership save from a few like Michael Oleary Dermot Desmond etc.

Lynchbhoy, you're not really grasping the TUPE concept. Whether you are public or private sector and you take over a business you are legally obliged to take the staff that comes with them, it's the law. You can't cherry pick, you can't take half, you have to take all, look it up, it's the LAW!

What Micheal O'Leary would do is make half of them redundant, the government doesn't do compulsory redundancy, it would lead to all out strikes from the public sector, something we can't afford. So they will probably give voluntary redundancy, the problem there is it's never the useless f**kers that take that, only the good ones who will get a job elsewhere.

That's fair enough point and it goes a long way towards explaining why Irish Water wound up with a load of employees who are surplus to its needs.
However, the point I've been trying to make all along is that Irish Water and the government are to blame for much of the controversy we're enmeshed in now.
A mix of arrogance and incompetence is the best way to describe the manner in which both parties have handled affairs since the board was set up. It was a case of diktat ratjer than discourse from beginning to end.
Take TUPE for example.
Can you or anyone else recall any attempt by either party to explain the reasons why this was done?
I certainly can't and, more importantly, it's clear than no one on the "No" side of the divide heard it either.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 03, 2015, 11:32:44 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 03, 2015, 11:26:39 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on February 03, 2015, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 02, 2015, 10:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2015, 09:26:42 PM
It would be ridiculous to set up Irish Water without hiring the people currently running the system, what would you then do with these people.
Same as you do in normal commercial business ( what should happen in aerlingus)
Cherry pick the cream to lead the company and hire additional baggage free staff in to work hard and efficiently

Those who don't make the cut - do what happens all other public sector workers, subsume them into departments that require staff.
Either that or they quit.
That this question is even coming up shows how much the tail wags the dog in too much of Irish 'work culture'. Too many sheep following blindly and no progressive thinking or leadership save from a few like Michael Oleary Dermot Desmond etc.

Lynchbhoy, you're not really grasping the TUPE concept. Whether you are public or private sector and you take over a business you are legally obliged to take the staff that comes with them, it's the law. You can't cherry pick, you can't take half, you have to take all, look it up, it's the LAW!

What Micheal O'Leary would do is make half of them redundant, the government doesn't do compulsory redundancy, it would lead to all out strikes from the public sector, something we can't afford. So they will probably give voluntary redundancy, the problem there is it's never the useless f**kers that take that, only the good ones who will get a job elsewhere.

That's fair enough point and it goes a long way towards explaining why Irish Water wound up with a load of employees who are surplus to its needs.
However, the point I've been trying to make all along is that Irish Water and the government are to blame for much of the controversy we're enmeshed in now.
A mix of arrogance and incompetence is the best way to describe the manner in which both parties have handled affairs since the board was set up. It was a case of diktat ratjer than discourse from beginning to end.
Take TUPE for example.
Can you or anyone else recall any attempt by either party to explain the reasons why this was done?
I certainly can't and, more importantly, it's clear than no one on the "No" side of the divide heard it either.

You can offer redundancy as part of a TUPE transition. You cannot make it mandatory, but you can offer it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on February 03, 2015, 11:39:49 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 03, 2015, 11:32:44 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 03, 2015, 11:26:39 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on February 03, 2015, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 02, 2015, 10:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2015, 09:26:42 PM
It would be ridiculous to set up Irish Water without hiring the people currently running the system, what would you then do with these people.
Same as you do in normal commercial business ( what should happen in aerlingus)
Cherry pick the cream to lead the company and hire additional baggage free staff in to work hard and efficiently

Those who don't make the cut - do what happens all other public sector workers, subsume them into departments that require staff.
Either that or they quit.
That this question is even coming up shows how much the tail wags the dog in too much of Irish 'work culture'. Too many sheep following blindly and no progressive thinking or leadership save from a few like Michael Oleary Dermot Desmond etc.

Lynchbhoy, you're not really grasping the TUPE concept. Whether you are public or private sector and you take over a business you are legally obliged to take the staff that comes with them, it's the law. You can't cherry pick, you can't take half, you have to take all, look it up, it's the LAW!

What Micheal O'Leary would do is make half of them redundant, the government doesn't do compulsory redundancy, it would lead to all out strikes from the public sector, something we can't afford. So they will probably give voluntary redundancy, the problem there is it's never the useless f**kers that take that, only the good ones who will get a job elsewhere.

That's fair enough point and it goes a long way towards explaining why Irish Water wound up with a load of employees who are surplus to its needs.
However, the point I've been trying to make all along is that Irish Water and the government are to blame for much of the controversy we're enmeshed in now.
A mix of arrogance and incompetence is the best way to describe the manner in which both parties have handled affairs since the board was set up. It was a case of diktat ratjer than discourse from beginning to end.
Take TUPE for example.
Can you or anyone else recall any attempt by either party to explain the reasons why this was done?
I certainly can't and, more importantly, it's clear than no one on the "No" side of the divide heard it either.

You can offer redundancy as part of a TUPE transition. You cannot make it mandatory, but you can offer it.
Yeah but my point is that nobody from IW or the government side made any attempt to explain this to the electorate, thereby adding to the already high level of unrest.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 03, 2015, 11:43:51 AM
I'm with you. I think the whole thing stinks to high heaven. One of the first points of emphasis on any project to clean up politics should be the absolute insistence that every department publishes a proper set of accounts, which itemise money incoming, spend and planned expenditure.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: StephenC on February 03, 2015, 11:50:42 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 03, 2015, 10:38:41 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 03, 2015, 09:52:22 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on February 03, 2015, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 02, 2015, 10:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2015, 09:26:42 PM
It would be ridiculous to set up Irish Water without hiring the people currently running the system, what would you then do with these people.
Same as you do in normal commercial business ( what should happen in aerlingus)
Cherry pick the cream to lead the company and hire additional baggage free staff in to work hard and efficiently

Those who don't make the cut - do what happens all other public sector workers, subsume them into departments that require staff.
Either that or they quit.
That this question is even coming up shows how much the tail wags the dog in too much of Irish 'work culture'. Too many sheep following blindly and no progressive thinking or leadership save from a few like Michael Oleary Dermot Desmond etc.

Lynchbhoy, you're not really grasping the TUPE concept. Whether you are public or private sector and you take over a business you are legally obliged to take the staff that comes with them, it's the law. You can't cherry pick, you can't take half, you have to take all, look it up, it's the LAW!

What Micheal O'Leary would do is make half of them redundant, the government doesn't do compulsory redundancy, it would lead to all out strikes from the public sector, something we can't afford. So they will probably give voluntary redundancy, the problem there is it's never the useless f**kers that take that, only the good ones who will get a job elsewhere.

Precisely! And you're left with the bone-idle fckers who know they're on a good number and won't get it as cushy anywhere else.

Exactly but if the govt haven't introduced any measures to sack useless civil servants in the last few years, we'll never see it.

Exactly. IMO this is the biggest failure of this government. There was an opportunity to bring real change to our public service during the downturn, as such an environment creates the mood for change. Instead, FG shied away from that and now that things are improving the opportunity is gone. The Irish Water problems are symptomatic of the issues in our Public Service.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 03, 2015, 11:58:43 AM
Quote from: StephenC on February 03, 2015, 11:50:42 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 03, 2015, 10:38:41 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 03, 2015, 09:52:22 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on February 03, 2015, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 02, 2015, 10:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2015, 09:26:42 PM
It would be ridiculous to set up Irish Water without hiring the people currently running the system, what would you then do with these people.
Same as you do in normal commercial business ( what should happen in aerlingus)
Cherry pick the cream to lead the company and hire additional baggage free staff in to work hard and efficiently

Those who don't make the cut - do what happens all other public sector workers, subsume them into departments that require staff.
Either that or they quit.
That this question is even coming up shows how much the tail wags the dog in too much of Irish 'work culture'. Too many sheep following blindly and no progressive thinking or leadership save from a few like Michael Oleary Dermot Desmond etc.

Lynchbhoy, you're not really grasping the TUPE concept. Whether you are public or private sector and you take over a business you are legally obliged to take the staff that comes with them, it's the law. You can't cherry pick, you can't take half, you have to take all, look it up, it's the LAW!

What Micheal O'Leary would do is make half of them redundant, the government doesn't do compulsory redundancy, it would lead to all out strikes from the public sector, something we can't afford. So they will probably give voluntary redundancy, the problem there is it's never the useless f**kers that take that, only the good ones who will get a job elsewhere.

Precisely! And you're left with the bone-idle fckers who know they're on a good number and won't get it as cushy anywhere else.

Exactly but if the govt haven't introduced any measures to sack useless civil servants in the last few years, we'll never see it.

Exactly. IMO this is the biggest failure of this government. There was an opportunity to bring real change to our public service during the downturn, as such an environment creates the mood for change. Instead, FG shied away from that and now that things are improving the opportunity is gone. The Irish Water problems are symptomatic of the issues in our Public Service.

And the thing is, FG would have been the ones most likely to do (i.e. likely to lose the least amount of votes from it). None of the parties are willing to tackel the public sector unions and their protection of under-performing workers
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 03, 2015, 12:14:28 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 03, 2015, 11:58:43 AM
And the thing is, FG would have been the ones most likely to do (i.e. likely to lose the least amount of votes from it). None of the parties are willing to tackel the public sector unions and their protection of under-performing workers

The problem is that for every out and out loafer, there are 10 who are willing to work but who are profoundly unproductive because of crap management and crap ways of ways of doing things. No politician is truly interested in efficient ways of doing things because such a system would not involve political interference and manipulation. But the voters haven't asked the politicians to do better, contenting themselves with lazy characterisations about unions and the like.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 03, 2015, 12:40:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 03, 2015, 12:14:28 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 03, 2015, 11:58:43 AM
And the thing is, FG would have been the ones most likely to do (i.e. likely to lose the least amount of votes from it). None of the parties are willing to tackel the public sector unions and their protection of under-performing workers

The problem is that for every out and out loafer, there are 10 who are willing to work but who are profoundly unproductive because of crap management and crap ways of ways of doing things. No politician is truly interested in efficient ways of doing things because such a system would not involve political interference and manipulation. But the voters haven't asked the politicians to do better, contenting themselves with lazy characterisations about unions and the like.

I think you're underestimating (@ 9%) the amount who could be described as "out and out loafers", I'd put it at at least twice that.

And the unions are very much part of the problem - do you think they'd countenance the civil service becoming a meritcoracy? Not a chance. A more efficient public service would reduce the number of workers and less workers = less union subscriptions & less power for the unions.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 03, 2015, 12:49:33 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 03, 2015, 12:40:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 03, 2015, 12:14:28 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 03, 2015, 11:58:43 AM
And the thing is, FG would have been the ones most likely to do (i.e. likely to lose the least amount of votes from it). None of the parties are willing to tackel the public sector unions and their protection of under-performing workers

The problem is that for every out and out loafer, there are 10 who are willing to work but who are profoundly unproductive because of crap management and crap ways of ways of doing things. No politician is truly interested in efficient ways of doing things because such a system would not involve political interference and manipulation. But the voters haven't asked the politicians to do better, contenting themselves with lazy characterisations about unions and the like.

I think you're underestimating (@ 9%) the amount who could be described as "out and out loafers", I'd put it at at least twice that.

And the unions are very much part of the problem - do you think they'd countenance the civil service becoming a meritcoracy? Not a chance. A more efficient public service would reduce the number of workers and less workers = less union subscriptions & less power for the unions.

The point is that there is signficant variation in performance in the public service, with the same union agreements. I'd say that if the least efficient department/council was simply brought to the performance of the best there would be a significant improvement. The difference in these different departments is that some are managed properly and have created a culture of getting things done, others are not. But at present there is no reward for doing better, there are no proper statistics and the media/ forum poster lumps everyone in together anyhow.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 03, 2015, 12:54:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 03, 2015, 12:49:33 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 03, 2015, 12:40:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 03, 2015, 12:14:28 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 03, 2015, 11:58:43 AM
And the thing is, FG would have been the ones most likely to do (i.e. likely to lose the least amount of votes from it). None of the parties are willing to tackel the public sector unions and their protection of under-performing workers

The problem is that for every out and out loafer, there are 10 who are willing to work but who are profoundly unproductive because of crap management and crap ways of ways of doing things. No politician is truly interested in efficient ways of doing things because such a system would not involve political interference and manipulation. But the voters haven't asked the politicians to do better, contenting themselves with lazy characterisations about unions and the like.

I think you're underestimating (@ 9%) the amount who could be described as "out and out loafers", I'd put it at at least twice that.

And the unions are very much part of the problem - do you think they'd countenance the civil service becoming a meritcoracy? Not a chance. A more efficient public service would reduce the number of workers and less workers = less union subscriptions & less power for the unions.

The point is that there is signficant variation in performance in the public service, with the same union agreements. I'd say that if the least efficient department/council was simply brought to the performance of the best there would be a significant improvement. The difference in these different departments is that some are managed properly and have created a culture of getting things done, others are not. But at present there is no reward for doing better, there are no proper statistics and the media/ forum poster lumps everyone in together anyhow.

So if you're the manager of an underperforming department (with say one or two individuals setting a low bar for the entire team), what options are available to you?? The manager is effectively toothless, he has neither carrot nor stick. And if as you suggest, the fault lies with the manager himself, his own manager is in a similar position of not being able to do anything.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on February 03, 2015, 02:45:07 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 03, 2015, 11:43:51 AM
I'm with you. I think the whole thing stinks to high heaven. One of the first points of emphasis on any project to clean up politics should be the absolute insistence that every department publishes a proper set of accounts, which itemise money incoming, spend and planned expenditure.

Lar Id agree with you too, it's been a shambolic display of poor management and lack of backbone that will cost this state billions, all because the government didn't stick to the plan they had which was reasonably thought out.

I think the idea of explaining TUPE to the likes that are abusing Michael D or Joan B is a step too far, even for the finest of educators. Youd get the same level of misinformation being handed out by the Paul Murphys and co

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 03, 2015, 02:49:49 PM
It can probably be summarised thus. TUPE is a law to work on behalf of the employee, not on behalf of the legacy or the new company. It is structured so that no employee is *worse off* in terms of Ts&Cs following the change.

Making someone redundant, involuntarily, as a result of Transition will be handled as a dismissal, and as transition is not grounds for dismissal, the company would lose an unfair dismissal case.

The employee cannot lose out as a result of TUPE. It's up to the new company to get creative if they feel they have to, but that's going to cost them and has to be voluntary.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 03, 2015, 08:12:23 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on February 03, 2015, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 02, 2015, 10:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2015, 09:26:42 PM
It would be ridiculous to set up Irish Water without hiring the people currently running the system, what would you then do with these people.
Same as you do in normal commercial business ( what should happen in aerlingus)
Cherry pick the cream to lead the company and hire additional baggage free staff in to work hard and efficiently

Those who don't make the cut - do what happens all other public sector workers, subsume them into departments that require staff.
Either that or they quit.
That this question is even coming up shows how much the tail wags the dog in too much of Irish 'work culture'. Too many sheep following blindly and no progressive thinking or leadership save from a few like Michael Oleary Dermot Desmond etc.

Lynchbhoy, you're not really grasping the TUPE concept. Whether you are public or private sector and you take over a business you are legally obliged to take the staff that comes with them, it's the law. You can't cherry pick, you can't take half, you have to take all, look it up, it's the LAW!

He's not grasping any concept, be it the constitution or employment law.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 03, 2015, 08:24:58 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 03, 2015, 11:26:39 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on February 03, 2015, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 02, 2015, 10:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2015, 09:26:42 PM
It would be ridiculous to set up Irish Water without hiring the people currently running the system, what would you then do with these people.
Same as you do in normal commercial business ( what should happen in aerlingus)
Cherry pick the cream to lead the company and hire additional baggage free staff in to work hard and efficiently

Those who don't make the cut - do what happens all other public sector workers, subsume them into departments that require staff.
Either that or they quit.
That this question is even coming up shows how much the tail wags the dog in too much of Irish 'work culture'. Too many sheep following blindly and no progressive thinking or leadership save from a few like Michael Oleary Dermot Desmond etc.

Lynchbhoy, you're not really grasping the TUPE concept. Whether you are public or private sector and you take over a business you are legally obliged to take the staff that comes with them, it's the law. You can't cherry pick, you can't take half, you have to take all, look it up, it's the LAW!

What Micheal O'Leary would do is make half of them redundant, the government doesn't do compulsory redundancy, it would lead to all out strikes from the public sector, something we can't afford. So they will probably give voluntary redundancy, the problem there is it's never the useless f**kers that take that, only the good ones who will get a job elsewhere.

That's fair enough point and it goes a long way towards explaining why Irish Water wound up with a load of employees who are surplus to its needs.
However, the point I've been trying to make all along is that Irish Water and the government are to blame for much of the controversy we're enmeshed in now.
A mix of arrogance and incompetence is the best way to describe the manner in which both parties have handled affairs since the board was set up. It was a case of diktat ratjer than discourse from beginning to end.
Take TUPE for example.
Can you or anyone else recall any attempt by either party to explain the reasons why this was done?
I certainly can't and, more importantly, it's clear than no one on the "No" side of the divide heard it either.
Plenty of people on the NO side wouldn't want to hear it, and it suits some people on that side of the debate if people are ignorant of the detail. And then you have people who just won't get it - sure look at this thread - you have people who can't grasp these things when they're explained several times.

Yes, government and public bodies could be better at explaining, but a lot of the time the media are only interested in the soundbites and headlines, and most of the general public couldn't be bothered with the detail. Take the issue of the President signing the bill for example - 10 minutes on Google and you'll understand the protocol, but people would rather have a rant about democracy (as they understand it) and how the President should have called a referendum.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 03, 2015, 08:45:12 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 03, 2015, 05:49:16 AM
Franko, as I have pointed out water charges were mentioned in the manifesto, down the back of the booklet and very ambiguous.
I think you'll find that I pointed that out to you.

As for what was in the manifesto:
Water Charging: Fine Gael will introduce a fair funding model to deliver clean and reliable water. We will not ask home owners to pay for a broken and unreliable system and that is why Fine Gael will only introduce water charging after the establishment of a new State owned water utility company to take over responsibility from the separate local authorities for Ireland's water infrastructure and to drive new investment.

It's not really that ambiguous. They have introduced charging after the establishment of a new State owned water utility company, just like they said.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 03, 2015, 08:57:01 PM
Here's the well though-out alternative, folks:

SF muddies the waters on how to fund creaking, leaking network

It is in appalling order and needs enormous sums of money to bring it into line with EU standards. It must provide a clean, safe and secure supply for all householders and businesses, something it is simply not capable of delivering at the present, and which will require annual spending of some €500m a year for the foreseeable future.

And so it is somewhat worrying when the deputy leader of Sinn Fein, which styles itself as a party of government, gives a less-than-assuring outline of how it will fund these upgrades if it enters office. Mary Lou McDonald (pictured right) told RTE's 'Morning Ireland' yesterday that while it was "open" to a single utility being used to oversee the network, it simply could not countenance charging people for their domestic water supply.

So how will upgrades be funded, given that at least half of all revenue coming to the single utility must be from private sources, and not government?

"Part of the equation" would be government funding, Ms McDonald said. Some could come from business rates and the party would be "open to looking at all forms or formula" to gather the rest.

Crucially, this caveat was added: "You would tailor the level of investment and works that you could carry out on the basis of that formula ... what I am saying is that under no circumstances will we stand over a situation where you charge people for their domestic water supply, you therefore cut your cloth according to your measure."

That suggests that if Sinn Fein is part of the next government, the necessary upgrades will not take place.

That's bad news for almost one million people which the Environmental Protection Agency says are drawing their water from "risky supplies", for those on boil water notices and for those who will be hit with restrictions when parts of the system fail, as they inevitably will.

This is the area which those opposed to charges have failed to address. Householders are expected to provide €270m of Irish Water's annual revenues, with businesses paying another €230m and state funding making up another €500m or so in the near-term.

If you remove domestic charges, that shortfall has to be made up somewhere. Many say they would use the €540m being invested in meters. That's one year's upgrades. What about the long-term funding plan? The only way to square this circle by using State resources is to cut other services, or increase taxes. That's goodbye to income tax cuts and changes to the USC. It's no additional teachers, nurses and public servants. It's reducing the ambition of the social housing programme.

The opposition does itself no service by failing to have a detailed plan for investment. Answers like those given yesterday provide no clarity, and are as clear as the muddy water flowing from some household taps.


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/sf-muddies-the-waters-on-how-to-fund-creaking-leaking-network-30958723.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 03, 2015, 09:06:41 PM
They might get some money from the Northern Bank ;D
Typical crapology from SF...We'll improve the water network but no one will have to pay for it. And sure something might turn up.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 03, 2015, 09:10:47 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 03, 2015, 09:06:41 PM
They might get some money from the Northern Bank ;D
Typical crapology from SF...We'll improve the water network but no one will have to pay for it. And sure something might turn up.
But the article above is basically an admission that they'll continue with the legacy of under-investment in the network, so people won't pay water charges, but they'll pay something through general taxation, and for that, many more will have boil notices, restricted supplies etc. Basically, it's an admission that there's no realistic alternative (despite having a few years now to come up with something) - if you want a utility service that's fit for purpose, you'll have to pay for it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 04, 2015, 11:23:38 AM
Water ans especially sewage investment is something that can always be postponed out of the life of a given government, but needs to be done continually. So the Shinners, or any other party, can cut the charges in the short term and we pay in the long term.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 08, 2015, 07:34:25 PM
Motor tax going to Irish Water too....wow...

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1029987353683488&set=vb.100000167008058&type=2&theater
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 08, 2015, 08:27:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 08, 2015, 07:34:25 PM
Motor tax going to Irish Water too....wow...

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1029987353683488&set=vb.100000167008058&type=2&theater

Where did you think the money would come from?

SF fantasy land?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Kidder81 on February 08, 2015, 08:33:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2015, 08:27:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 08, 2015, 07:34:25 PM
Motor tax going to Irish Water too....wow...

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1029987353683488&set=vb.100000167008058&type=2&theater

Where did you think the money would come from?

SF fantasy land?

Foxcommander isn't a Shinner  :o
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 08, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Well given that this relates to a year where there were no water charges, how did you think it was funded?
And until water is fully funded through charges, it will continue to be funded from other taxes. What did you expect?

That this comes as a surprise to you speaks volumes.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 08, 2015, 09:26:19 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 08, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Well given that this relates to a year where there were no water charges, how did you think it was funded?
And until water is fully funded through charges, it will continue to be funded from other taxes. What did you expect?

That this comes as a surprise to you speaks volumes.

Many of those burdening us with their rhetoric aren't burdening themselves with any thinking.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 08, 2015, 09:29:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2015, 09:26:19 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 08, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Well given that this relates to a year where there were no water charges, how did you think it was funded?
And until water is fully funded through charges, it will continue to be funded from other taxes. What did you expect?

That this comes as a surprise to you speaks volumes.

Many of those burdening us with their rhetoric aren't burdening themselves with any thinking.
+1.
You'd wonder what age they are
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 09, 2015, 04:08:29 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2015, 09:26:19 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 08, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Well given that this relates to a year where there were no water charges, how did you think it was funded?
And until water is fully funded through charges, it will continue to be funded from other taxes. What did you expect?

That this comes as a surprise to you speaks volumes.

Many of those burdening us with their rhetoric aren't burdening themselves with any thinking.

The government certainly aren't burdening themselves with thinking. They just do as they are told.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/we-didnt-stab-the-greeks-in-back-on-debt-coveney-30975400.html

Why wouldn't you look for a write-down? Please answer if you can.

Yet the right of every individual in Ireland to have access to free clean drinking water is being taken away because the government can't afford to pay for water services? erm.....

Taking money earmarked for road improvements and maintenance and taking money from property taxes to set up an entity which will subject the general population to a new form of tax is acceptable?

You can't say the situation isn't a little fuc'd up but let's go with the classic irish shrug and "sure what can we do".
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 09, 2015, 05:44:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 08, 2015, 09:29:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2015, 09:26:19 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 08, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Well given that this relates to a year where there were no water charges, how did you think it was funded?
And until water is fully funded through charges, it will continue to be funded from other taxes. What did you expect?

That this comes as a surprise to you speaks volumes.

Many of those burdening us with their rhetoric aren't burdening themselves with any thinking.
+1.
You'd wonder what age they are
+1 can't think for themselves.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 09, 2015, 06:59:35 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 09, 2015, 04:08:29 AM
Yet the right of every individual in Ireland to have access to free clean drinking water is being taken away because the government can't afford to pay for water services?
A right to free clean drinking water? Really? Is this a new thing?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 09, 2015, 12:06:14 PM
Do the Blueshirts not see the irony in getting the Stasi to arrest Paul Murphy?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 09, 2015, 12:08:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 09, 2015, 04:08:29 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2015, 09:26:19 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 08, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Well given that this relates to a year where there were no water charges, how did you think it was funded?
And until water is fully funded through charges, it will continue to be funded from other taxes. What did you expect?

That this comes as a surprise to you speaks volumes.

Many of those burdening us with their rhetoric aren't burdening themselves with any thinking.

The government certainly aren't burdening themselves with thinking. They just do as they are told.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/we-didnt-stab-the-greeks-in-back-on-debt-coveney-30975400.html

Why wouldn't you look for a write-down? Please answer if you can.

Yet the right of every individual in Ireland to have access to free clean drinking water is being taken away because the government can't afford to pay for water services? erm.....

Taking money earmarked for road improvements and maintenance and taking money from property taxes to set up an entity which will subject the general population to a new form of tax is acceptable?

You can't say the situation isn't a little fuc'd up but let's go with the classic irish shrug and "sure what can we do".

The time to look for a write-down was the time when we had the greatest leverage. That was before the bank guarantee and, to a far lesser extant, when we were in secret negotiations with the Troika on a bailout with 6 months cash. The latter fell apart when Honohan phoned RTE (with his ECB hat on) and completely undermined any leverage we had.

Looking for a write-down now is pointless, unless you want to fool some dim-witted voters and then do a u-turn after being elected.

Greece are in a different situation. Middle class people are leaving their children in orphanages. But regardless, they won't get a write down. If you think the powers that be in Europe are going to baulk at reckless populism you will learn fast. If the new Government sticks to its guns I predict Greece will be launched from the Euro all the way back to the 3rd World.

Irish people cheering for the Greek Government need their heads examined. The Greeks got themselves into debt by, amongst other generous public spending, giving everyone pensions at 61. The Greeks took to the streets when they raised it to 63. http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2010/02/greeces_generous_pensions (http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2010/02/greeces_generous_pensions)

The Irish got themselves into debt, mainly on the instruction of the ECB to save Anglo from going under. Put it this way, the Greeks are paying their own debt while we are paying private bank debt that has nothing to do with the vast majority of us.

A tiny anarchic part of me is fascinated with the behaviour of the Greeks, but the head says they are f*cked and we would be mad to follow suit.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 09, 2015, 12:40:15 PM
Greek Civil Servants used to drive around in Ferrari's. Poor Irish Civil Servants have to make do with BMW's. Supporting Greece in their battle with the ECB is the equivalent of sticking a rusty blade in your eye unless you're a civil servant in which case you'll be hoping Greeks get their way and the unfunded gravy train starts accelerating again.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 09, 2015, 01:10:15 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 09, 2015, 12:40:15 PM
Greek Civil Servants used to drive around in Ferrari's. Poor Irish Civil Servants have to make do with BMW's. Supporting Greece in their battle with the ECB is the equivalent of sticking a rusty blade in your eye unless you're a civil servant in which case you'll be hoping Greeks get their way and the unfunded gravy train starts accelerating again.

A good start would be a strict financial budgetary rule limiting public salaries to a percentage of Government revenue.

How does 1/3rd sound? Most businesses wouldn't have payroll costs has high as that so why should the Government get away with it? That way the unions could fight it out amongst themselves.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: StephenC on February 09, 2015, 01:52:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 01:10:15 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 09, 2015, 12:40:15 PM
Greek Civil Servants used to drive around in Ferrari's. Poor Irish Civil Servants have to make do with BMW's. Supporting Greece in their battle with the ECB is the equivalent of sticking a rusty blade in your eye unless you're a civil servant in which case you'll be hoping Greeks get their way and the unfunded gravy train starts accelerating again.

A good start would be a strict financial budgetary rule limiting public salaries to a percentage of Government revenue.

How does 1/3rd sound? Most businesses wouldn't have payroll costs has high as that so why should the Government get away with it? That way the unions could fight it out amongst themselves.

That's a pretty good idea. Has it been implemented in any country previously?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 02:07:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 01:10:15 PM
A good start would be a strict financial budgetary rule limiting public salaries to a percentage of Government revenue.

How does 1/3rd sound? Most businesses wouldn't have payroll costs has high as that so why should the Government get away with it? That way the unions could fight it out amongst themselves.

If you were king, would you seriously implement this?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Billys Boots on February 09, 2015, 02:15:45 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 02:07:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 01:10:15 PM
A good start would be a strict financial budgetary rule limiting public salaries to a percentage of Government revenue.

How does 1/3rd sound? Most businesses wouldn't have payroll costs has high as that so why should the Government get away with it? That way the unions could fight it out amongst themselves.

If you were king, would you seriously implement this?

Just to throw in my tuppenceworth - given that Revenue seem incapable of accurately forecasting annual income, how would you agree payroll amounts in advance?  Or would it be annually in arrears?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 09, 2015, 02:41:40 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on February 09, 2015, 02:15:45 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 02:07:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 01:10:15 PM
A good start would be a strict financial budgetary rule limiting public salaries to a percentage of Government revenue.

How does 1/3rd sound? Most businesses wouldn't have payroll costs has high as that so why should the Government get away with it? That way the unions could fight it out amongst themselves.

If you were king, would you seriously implement this?

Just to throw in my tuppenceworth - given that Revenue seem incapable of accurately forecasting annual income, how would you agree payroll amounts in advance?  Or would it be annually in arrears?

The argument that is used to prevent change in the public service is that they would all go out on strike. The fact that most of them do sfa seems to be lost on the people making this argument.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 09, 2015, 02:45:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 01:10:15 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 09, 2015, 12:40:15 PM
Greek Civil Servants used to drive around in Ferrari's. Poor Irish Civil Servants have to make do with BMW's. Supporting Greece in their battle with the ECB is the equivalent of sticking a rusty blade in your eye unless you're a civil servant in which case you'll be hoping Greeks get their way and the unfunded gravy train starts accelerating again.

A good start would be a strict financial budgetary rule limiting public salaries to a percentage of Government revenue.

How does 1/3rd sound? Most businesses wouldn't have payroll costs has high as that so why should the Government get away with it? That way the unions could fight it out amongst themselves.

This type of global simplistic ratio is total horse manure, as it is completely devoid of any analysis as to what the proper ratio should be. You could hire more home helps, a large part of the cost might be labour but it might still be the right thing to do.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 02:47:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 09, 2015, 02:41:40 PM
The argument that is used to prevent change in the public service is that they would all go out on strike. The fact that most of them do sfa seems to be lost on the people making this argument.

I was more concerned that such a policy would be procyclical. But feel free to argue against points that are not being made.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 09, 2015, 03:18:23 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 02:47:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 09, 2015, 02:41:40 PM
The argument that is used to prevent change in the public service is that they would all go out on strike. The fact that most of them do sfa seems to be lost on the people making this argument.

I was more concerned that such a policy would be procyclical. But feel free to argue against points that are not being made.

Wasn't saying it was your argument, i was just making a general response to the pay discussion.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on February 09, 2015, 02:15:45 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 02:07:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 01:10:15 PM
A good start would be a strict financial budgetary rule limiting public salaries to a percentage of Government revenue.

How does 1/3rd sound? Most businesses wouldn't have payroll costs has high as that so why should the Government get away with it? That way the unions could fight it out amongst themselves.

If you were king, would you seriously implement this?

Just to throw in my tuppenceworth - given that Revenue seem incapable of accurately forecasting annual income, how would you agree payroll amounts in advance?  Or would it be annually in arrears?

Annually in arrears would obviously work better. It would put a lag on pay adjustments, but at least it removes the problem you mention. Ideally you would hope for accurate forecasts and go on that basis so you could give rises if the (hopefully accurate) forecast was good.

Within the system you would reward performance as well which might make things a bit more competitive and encourage whistle blowers to flag the useless.

As for the if I were king question, that is the current position. Public Service is king and it rewards its current elite very well.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2015, 02:45:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 01:10:15 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 09, 2015, 12:40:15 PM
Greek Civil Servants used to drive around in Ferrari's. Poor Irish Civil Servants have to make do with BMW's. Supporting Greece in their battle with the ECB is the equivalent of sticking a rusty blade in your eye unless you're a civil servant in which case you'll be hoping Greeks get their way and the unfunded gravy train starts accelerating again.

A good start would be a strict financial budgetary rule limiting public salaries to a percentage of Government revenue.

How does 1/3rd sound? Most businesses wouldn't have payroll costs has high as that so why should the Government get away with it? That way the unions could fight it out amongst themselves.

This type of global simplistic ratio is total horse manure, as it is completely devoid of any analysis as to what the proper ratio should be. You could hire more home helps, a large part of the cost might be labour but it might still be the right thing to do.

Are you against a ratio, or against throwing out a number as an example of what such a ratio might be?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 03:22:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:19:02 PM
As for the if I were king question, that is the current position. Public Service is king and it rewards its current elite very well.

That's not an answer to the question.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:24:25 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 03:22:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:19:02 PM
As for the if I were king question, that is the current position. Public Service is king and it rewards its current elite very well.

That's not an answer to the question.

Then yes I definitely would implement it. But it isn't going to be a problem.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:24:25 PM
Then yes I definitely would implement it. But it isn't going to be a problem.

So if you were in charge, you would institute a policy that would prolong recessions. As you say, it isn't going to be a problem, and for that we should all be grateful.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:47:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:24:25 PM
Then yes I definitely would implement it. But it isn't going to be a problem.

So if you were in charge, you would institute a policy that would prolong recessions. As you say, it isn't going to be a problem, and for that we should all be grateful.

Ah, I know this game.

So you are going to stick with a plan that bankrupts countries.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:50:47 PM
Poland's public sector pay is 10% of GDP: http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2013/07/18/poland-reforming-the-public-sector-pay-system (http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2013/07/18/poland-reforming-the-public-sector-pay-system)

They must be recession perverts.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 03:51:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:47:24 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:24:25 PM
Then yes I definitely would implement it. But it isn't going to be a problem.

So if you were in charge, you would institute a policy that would prolong recessions. As you say, it isn't going to be a problem, and for that we should all be grateful.

Ah, I know this game.

So you are going to stick with a plan that bankrupts countries.

You clearly don't know the game...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 03:52:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:50:47 PM
Poland's public sector pay is 10% of GDP: http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2013/07/18/poland-reforming-the-public-sector-pay-system (http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2013/07/18/poland-reforming-the-public-sector-pay-system)

They must be recession perverts.

...as this post has demonstrated.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:54:32 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 03:52:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:50:47 PM
Poland's public sector pay is 10% of GDP: http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2013/07/18/poland-reforming-the-public-sector-pay-system (http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2013/07/18/poland-reforming-the-public-sector-pay-system)

They must be recession perverts.

...as this post has demonstrated.

Don't worry I am looking for the proper Gov Revenue figure. That site is a maze.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Billys Boots on February 09, 2015, 04:04:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:54:32 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 03:52:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:50:47 PM
Poland's public sector pay is 10% of GDP: http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2013/07/18/poland-reforming-the-public-sector-pay-system (http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2013/07/18/poland-reforming-the-public-sector-pay-system)

They must be recession perverts.

...as this post has demonstrated.

Don't worry I am looking for the proper Gov Revenue figure. That site is a maze.

That's not an accident, as anyone who has to deal with Revenue will attest.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 09, 2015, 04:08:16 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on February 09, 2015, 04:04:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:54:32 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 03:52:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:50:47 PM
Poland's public sector pay is 10% of GDP: http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2013/07/18/poland-reforming-the-public-sector-pay-system (http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2013/07/18/poland-reforming-the-public-sector-pay-system)

They must be recession perverts.

...as this post has demonstrated.

Don't worry I am looking for the proper Gov Revenue figure. That site is a maze.

That's not an accident, as anyone who has to deal with Revenue will attest.

Looking at various sources of all sorts of data, could we consider a similar cap on social welfare spending as well? Ireland appears to have the 3rd highest percentage of GDP spending in this area.

This argument is simply telling the Government that they can only spend what they have, not what they don't, and you can't borrow to pass the debt on to the next generation.

Also for those who know about these things, would a percentage of GDP, GNP or Revenue be better in this regard?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 09, 2015, 04:28:21 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:24:25 PM
Then yes I definitely would implement it. But it isn't going to be a problem.

So if you were in charge, you would institute a policy that would prolong recessions. As you say, it isn't going to be a problem, and for that we should all be grateful.

This recession talk is boring. People are comparing the economy against Celtic Tiger figures. This was a false ecnonomy. People went nuts and now we're paying the price.  Hopfully things will never be like that again yet Honohan gets slated for bringing in anti-inflation measures. Our govt being one of the main parties who didn't want these restrictions in place. Expectations need to be more realistic.

The economy is a simple beast. People will spend (if they have it) when they see value. If people aren't spending then prices need to fall, once prices fall demand will increase. Demand then increases until maximum output is reached, prices will then rise. At this point in time we are in a place where prices are too high. To address this problem the US and a lot of Europe want to print money to give to people to spend rather than seeing prices drop further. A strange thing to do. If your product aint selling, then drop the price. Quantitative easing will only end in tears.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 09, 2015, 04:49:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 09, 2015, 04:28:21 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 09, 2015, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 03:24:25 PM
Then yes I definitely would implement it. But it isn't going to be a problem.

So if you were in charge, you would institute a policy that would prolong recessions. As you say, it isn't going to be a problem, and for that we should all be grateful.

This recession talk is boring. People are comparing the economy against Celtic Tiger figures. This was a false ecnonomy. People went nuts and now we're paying the price.  Hopfully things will never be like that again yet Honohan gets slated for bringing in anti-inflation measures. Our govt being one of the main parties who didn't want these restrictions in place. Expectations need to be more realistic.

The economy is a simple beast. People will spend (if they have it) when they see value. If people aren't spending then prices need to fall, once prices fall demand will increase. Demand then increases until maximum output is reached, prices will then rise. At this point in time we are in a place where prices are too high. To address this problem the US and a lot of Europe want to print money to give to people to spend rather than seeing prices drop further. A strange thing to do. If your product aint selling, then drop the price. Quantitative easing will only end in tears.

Massive massive tears. We have a really big bang on the way.

Back to the cap on public salaries and social.

It doesn't automatically a cut in pay, it can also mean they focus on increasing revenue to achieve the ratio, like any business or household.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 09, 2015, 05:04:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 04:49:33 PM
It doesn't automatically a cut in pay, it can also mean they focus on increasing revenue to achieve the ratio, like any business or household.

That's all very fine, but when you charge for stuff instead of giving it away, like water, everyone whines then too.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 09, 2015, 05:08:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2015, 05:04:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 04:49:33 PM
It doesn't automatically a cut in pay, it can also mean they focus on increasing revenue to achieve the ratio, like any business or household.

That's all very fine, but when you charge for stuff instead of giving it away, like water, everyone whines then too.

True but some whine louder than others.

And I was actually thinking of Corporation Tax and Natural Gas, rather than water.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 09, 2015, 08:30:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2015, 05:04:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 04:49:33 PM
It doesn't automatically a cut in pay, it can also mean they focus on increasing revenue to achieve the ratio, like any business or household.

That's all very fine, but when you charge for stuff instead of giving it away, like water, everyone whines then too.

Most people don't have a problem paying for water. Their problem is how the money raised is spent. Only civil servants would defend Irish Water. Are you per chance on that gravy train? Your "suck it up" attitude would suggest you are.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 09, 2015, 08:35:04 PM
Further to the above: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/revenue-commissioners-advised-not-to-pursue-hsbc-tax-case-1.2095805 (http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/revenue-commissioners-advised-not-to-pursue-hsbc-tax-case-1.2095805)

I love this little line: "as were details concerning wealthy Irish people known to be tax resident outside Ireland."

Anyway, looking at this the Swiss Central Bank deposit rates were 1% in Jan 2006: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/switzerland/interest-rate (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/switzerland/interest-rate). By Jan 2007 they had risen to 2% and were nearly 3% by Jul 2007.

There was €3.1bn sitting in these accounts.

If this €3.1bn only yielded 2%, for just one year (who knows how many years this went on for?), that would be interest of €62m.

The revenue has received, according to the article, tax and penalties of €4.55m. That is a tax rate (+penalties) of 7.3%.

Who are we kidding?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 09, 2015, 09:36:11 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 09, 2015, 08:30:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2015, 05:04:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2015, 04:49:33 PM
It doesn't automatically a cut in pay, it can also mean they focus on increasing revenue to achieve the ratio, like any business or household.

That's all very fine, but when you charge for stuff instead of giving it away, like water, everyone whines then too.

Most people don't have a problem paying for water. Their problem is how the money raised is spent. Only civil servants would defend Irish Water. Are you per chance on that gravy train? Your "suck it up" attitude would suggest you are.

Mike - I can't quite believe the defeatist attitude of some on here either. The mantra appears to be that they accept what the government does without question.  Maintaining the pecking order seems to be paramount over looking after your fellow citizen who needs help.

There must be a few civil servants posting on here (god knows they can't do any actual work if they are on this board 24/7). Or they are IW employees on gardening leave etc ;)

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 03:17:57 PM
(https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10402787_810738725671467_3563661977517898297_n.jpg?oh=e94f215e1a1f8f1fd7bb14aeafa09d98&oe=5595E523)

Oh the shame of it.....

and while I'm at it...let's not offend the great leader...

http://socialistparty.ie/2015/02/monaghan-school-students-plan-walkout-against-taoiseach-visit/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 03:21:27 PM
Are you suggesting we should burn the streets? Or bully little old men and women? I don't think there's anything particularly brave or principled about either of those things?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 12, 2015, 03:41:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 03:21:27 PM
Are you suggesting we should burn the streets? Or bully little old men and women? I don't think there's anything particularly brave or principled about either of those things?

Ure getting a bit mixed up there, it's the blueshirts that are bullying old men and women. Siphoning off money to pay bond holders and wealthy vested interests like Dennis O Brien while leaving the old and the poor to suffer and the sick to die in overcrowded and under resourced hospitals.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 03:46:57 PM
Not getting a bit mixed up. I've seen a new facebook thingy created by Paul Murphy giving out about policing of these protests, etc, but I don't see any great credit or bravery in abusing a woman in a car, or an old man who's about 4 foot tall.

I have no issue with marches in the streets, and punishing the politicians at the ballot box, but violence on the streets, or intimidation of people is not something I'd be comfortable with.

And I'm no fan of FG either let me tell you that much.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 04:00:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 03:21:27 PM
Are you suggesting we should burn the streets? Or bully little old men and women? I don't think there's anything particularly brave or principled about either of those things?

Who's being bullied? Pay this new tax to service state debts or go to jail.
Not advocating violence, just showing how hysterical the irish media got over one protest in comparison to other countries.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 04:06:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 04:00:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 03:21:27 PM
Are you suggesting we should burn the streets? Or bully little old men and women? I don't think there's anything particularly brave or principled about either of those things?

Who's being bullied? Pay this new tax to service state debts or go to jail.
Not advocating violence, just showing how hysterical the irish media got over one protest in comparison to other countries.

That's democracy. You pay taxes and you get services. I'm of the opinion we are already paying for our water via existing taxes, but I accept that you can't have it for free. It's a service and it costs money to run it.

I still maintain it's an absolute disgrace that govt departments can not publish a P&L or income and Expenditure account like a normal company would, so we could see exactly where our money is being spent, and why this shortfall is there. At least then you'd know you're not just throwing good money after bad.

However, I am not going to dander on down to my local school or whatever and shout obscenities at an old man, or start rocking a car with a female govt minister inside it, just to frighten her. That's not decent behaviour in my mind.

By all means march, and by all means vote them out on their arses the next time around. Better still let the lads who are roaring and shouting form their own party and go in and change things. At least that crowd in Greece are trying that.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 12, 2015, 04:31:55 PM
The media are ramming this propaganda about sinister elements hijacking water protests. Paul Murphy was elected on the back of the water charges. He's doing what the people asked him to do. I haven't seen anyone get hurt. They've been called names and a few water balloons were thrown. If they can't take that then they should get out of politics. If they make the decisions they make they have to expect some comeback. They're lucky we don't protest like they do in other countries. You are falling for the spin that's been pushed by the govt by trying to discredit the protests and push the focus off the issue and on to a few protestors who get a bit rowdy.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 04:36:14 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 12, 2015, 04:31:55 PM
The media are ramming this propaganda about sinister elements hijacking water protests. Paul Murphy was elected on the back of the water charges. He's doing what the people asked him to do. I haven't seen anyone get hurt. They've been called names and a few water balloons were thrown. If they can't take that then they should get out of politics. If they make the decisions they make they have to expect some comeback. They're lucky we don't protest like they do in other countries. You are falling for the spin that's been pushed by the govt by trying to discredit the protests and push the focus off the issue and on to a few protestors who get a bit rowdy.

Is there such a thing as an impartial media in Ireland anymore? RTE and the printed press all seem to be on the same page bar a couple of rogue journalists.

It's like the "Animal Farm" playbook (Orwell, not the mucky version). 4 legs good...2 legs even better...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 04:53:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 04:06:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 04:00:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 03:21:27 PM
Are you suggesting we should burn the streets? Or bully little old men and women? I don't think there's anything particularly brave or principled about either of those things?

Who's being bullied? Pay this new tax to service state debts or go to jail.
Not advocating violence, just showing how hysterical the irish media got over one protest in comparison to other countries.

That's democracy. You pay taxes and you get services. I'm of the opinion we are already paying for our water via existing taxes, but I accept that you can't have it for free. It's a service and it costs money to run it.


But will the money gathered from all these taxes be used to service the items they are being collected for? Or will it be  used to service the banking debts? They have admitted that road tax has been used to fun irish water...so what money have they used for the roads???
This is why I find it incredible that so many seem to be so passive about it. What's the next squeeze they can get out of the population because it's going to happen. repeatedly.

Great little country to do business in.... if you're in the golden circle.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on February 12, 2015, 05:01:55 PM
Neither my barber nor the local taxi driver ever mentioned they were on gaaboard.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 12, 2015, 05:06:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 04:36:14 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 12, 2015, 04:31:55 PM
The media are ramming this propaganda about sinister elements hijacking water protests. Paul Murphy was elected on the back of the water charges. He's doing what the people asked him to do. I haven't seen anyone get hurt. They've been called names and a few water balloons were thrown. If they can't take that then they should get out of politics. If they make the decisions they make they have to expect some comeback. They're lucky we don't protest like they do in other countries. You are falling for the spin that's been pushed by the govt by trying to discredit the protests and push the focus off the issue and on to a few protestors who get a bit rowdy.

Is there such a thing as an impartial media in Ireland anymore? RTE and the printed press all seem to be on the same page bar a couple of rogue journalists.

It's like the "Animal Farm" playbook (Orwell, not the mucky version). 4 legs good...2 legs even better...

O Brien owns Newstalk, Today FM and Irish Indo. Anyone who speaks out gets sued or sacked. See Sam Smtyh for example. Fine Gael are only too happy to see him dictate Irish media. Govt always own RTE so if you want to know what's really going on, you should avoid mainstream media as they will never be impartial. I listen to Newstalk but never take their opinions seriously. Didn't O'Brien even give a job to a jouno that perjured herself in court for him.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 12, 2015, 08:22:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 04:53:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 04:06:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 04:00:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 03:21:27 PM
Are you suggesting we should burn the streets? Or bully little old men and women? I don't think there's anything particularly brave or principled about either of those things?

Who's being bullied? Pay this new tax to service state debts or go to jail.
Not advocating violence, just showing how hysterical the irish media got over one protest in comparison to other countries.

That's democracy. You pay taxes and you get services. I'm of the opinion we are already paying for our water via existing taxes, but I accept that you can't have it for free. It's a service and it costs money to run it.


But will the money gathered from all these taxes be used to service the items they are being collected for? Or will it be  used to service the banking debts? They have admitted that road tax has been used to fun irish water...so what money have they used for the roads???
This is why I find it incredible that so many seem to be so passive about it. What's the next squeeze they can get out of the population because it's going to happen. repeatedly.

Great little country to do business in.... if you're in the golden circle.
The irony being that full water charges would be solely used for water, rather than going anywhere near the government coffers. It's one place where the money collected would be ringfenced for its intended purpose.

By the way, it has been public knowledge since 1996 that the motor tax was to fund the local authorities, as a replacement to water charges at that time. As local authorities are no longer responsible for funding water, and in the absence of full water charges, that money moves to Irish Water.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 12, 2015, 08:49:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 12, 2015, 08:22:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 04:53:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 04:06:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 04:00:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 03:21:27 PM
Are you suggesting we should burn the streets? Or bully little old men and women? I don't think there's anything particularly brave or principled about either of those things?

Who's being bullied? Pay this new tax to service state debts or go to jail.
Not advocating violence, just showing how hysterical the irish media got over one protest in comparison to other countries.

That's democracy. You pay taxes and you get services. I'm of the opinion we are already paying for our water via existing taxes, but I accept that you can't have it for free. It's a service and it costs money to run it.


But will the money gathered from all these taxes be used to service the items they are being collected for? Or will it be  used to service the banking debts? They have admitted that road tax has been used to fun irish water...so what money have they used for the roads???
This is why I find it incredible that so many seem to be so passive about it. What's the next squeeze they can get out of the population because it's going to happen. repeatedly.

Great little country to do business in.... if you're in the golden circle.
The irony being that full water charges would be solely used for water, rather than going anywhere near the government coffers. It's one place where the money collected would be ringfenced for its intended purpose.

By the way, it has been public knowledge since 1996 that the motor tax was to fund the local authorities, as a replacement to water charges at that time. As local authorities are no longer responsible for funding water, and in the absence of full water charges, that money moves to Irish Water.

That doesn't stop the faux outrage.

Where did they think the money was coming from?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 12, 2015, 08:53:55 PM
The Northern Bank? :P
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 12, 2015, 09:12:46 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 12, 2015, 08:22:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 04:53:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 04:06:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 04:00:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 03:21:27 PM
Are you suggesting we should burn the streets? Or bully little old men and women? I don't think there's anything particularly brave or principled about either of those things?

Who's being bullied? Pay this new tax to service state debts or go to jail.
Not advocating violence, just showing how hysterical the irish media got over one protest in comparison to other countries.

That's democracy. You pay taxes and you get services. I'm of the opinion we are already paying for our water via existing taxes, but I accept that you can't have it for free. It's a service and it costs money to run it.


But will the money gathered from all these taxes be used to service the items they are being collected for? Or will it be  used to service the banking debts? They have admitted that road tax has been used to fun irish water...so what money have they used for the roads???
This is why I find it incredible that so many seem to be so passive about it. What's the next squeeze they can get out of the population because it's going to happen. repeatedly.

Great little country to do business in.... if you're in the golden circle.
The irony being that full water charges would be solely used for water, rather than going anywhere near the government coffers. It's one place where the money collected would be ringfenced for its intended purpose.

By the way, it has been public knowledge since 1996 that the motor tax was to fund the local authorities, as a replacement to water charges at that time. As local authorities are no longer responsible for funding water, and in the absence of full water charges, that money moves to Irish Water.
You're delusional if you think money raised was going to fund infrastructure.  Funding another quango was where that money was going.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 09:14:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 12, 2015, 08:49:31 PM
That doesn't stop the faux outrage.

Where did they think the money was coming from?

Taxpayers forking out more to cover banking debts and mismanagement of public money causes faux outrage?
Next you'll be saying there's no health crisis.






Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 09:17:06 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 12, 2015, 09:12:46 PM
You're delusional if you think money raised was going to fund infrastructure.  Funding another quango was where that money was going.

Correction : funding another quango which was sub-contracting services to an un-named media mogul was where that money was going.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 12, 2015, 09:18:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 09:14:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 12, 2015, 08:49:31 PM
That doesn't stop the faux outrage.

Where did they think the money was coming from?

Taxpayers forking out more to cover banking debts and mismanagement of public money causes faux outrage?
Next you'll be saying there's no health crisis.
I think he was referring specifically to your faux outrage at motor tax being used for water, given that this has been public knowledge for close to 20 years.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 12, 2015, 09:19:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 09:14:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 12, 2015, 08:49:31 PM
That doesn't stop the faux outrage.

Where did they think the money was coming from?

Taxpayers forking out more to cover banking debts and mismanagement of public money causes faux outrage?
Next you'll be saying there's no health crisis.

The water was paid for in the past. The water will need to be paid for in the future.

You are outraged abut this.

Where did you think the money came from in the past? And where would you take the money from in the future, assuming you want us to have water?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 12, 2015, 09:22:21 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 12, 2015, 09:12:46 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 12, 2015, 08:22:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 04:53:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 04:06:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 04:00:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 12, 2015, 03:21:27 PM
Are you suggesting we should burn the streets? Or bully little old men and women? I don't think there's anything particularly brave or principled about either of those things?

Who's being bullied? Pay this new tax to service state debts or go to jail.
Not advocating violence, just showing how hysterical the irish media got over one protest in comparison to other countries.

That's democracy. You pay taxes and you get services. I'm of the opinion we are already paying for our water via existing taxes, but I accept that you can't have it for free. It's a service and it costs money to run it.


But will the money gathered from all these taxes be used to service the items they are being collected for? Or will it be  used to service the banking debts? They have admitted that road tax has been used to fun irish water...so what money have they used for the roads???
This is why I find it incredible that so many seem to be so passive about it. What's the next squeeze they can get out of the population because it's going to happen. repeatedly.

Great little country to do business in.... if you're in the golden circle.
The irony being that full water charges would be solely used for water, rather than going anywhere near the government coffers. It's one place where the money collected would be ringfenced for its intended purpose.

By the way, it has been public knowledge since 1996 that the motor tax was to fund the local authorities, as a replacement to water charges at that time. As local authorities are no longer responsible for funding water, and in the absence of full water charges, that money moves to Irish Water.
You're delusional if you think money raised was going to fund infrastructure.  Funding another quango was where that money was going.
That quango is in turn responsible for funding investment in infrastructure, treating water and waste water etc.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 09:30:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 12, 2015, 09:19:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 09:14:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 12, 2015, 08:49:31 PM
That doesn't stop the faux outrage.

Where did they think the money was coming from?

Taxpayers forking out more to cover banking debts and mismanagement of public money causes faux outrage?
Next you'll be saying there's no health crisis.

The water was paid for in the past. The water will need to be paid for in the future.

You are outraged abut this.

Where did you think the money came from in the past? And where would you take the money from in the future, assuming you want us to have water?

I'd turn this around and ask you why you pay income tax in the first place, and such a high rate at that.
They've been splitting out environment and infrastructure charges in recent times (privatising bin charges for example).

So according to the government this is what the money goes on

• State Administration (sack them all)
• Security (why do we need this? Where do we plan to invade next?)
• Education (Still requires subsidies from taxpayer)
• Community, Culture and Environment (WTF!)
• Infrastructure (Now being paid for by new taxes)
• Social Programmes (New Years eve fireworks?)
• Foreign Affairs (Licking Merkels boots)
• Health and Children (You are joking)
• Economic Supports (Helping bankers)
• Servicing Debts (You betcha!)

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 12, 2015, 09:33:45 PM
Bin charges are "infrastructure"?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 12, 2015, 10:39:52 PM
Quotethe motor tax was to fund the local authorities, as a replacement to water charges at that time. As local authorities are no longer responsible for funding water, and in the absence of full water charges, that money moves to Irish Water.
If everyone fully complied and paid their water charges what was going to be done with the money that was moved from motor tax revenue? Are you saying that in times of recession local authorities are building slack in to their budget or that it's a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 12, 2015, 11:53:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 12, 2015, 10:39:52 PM
Quotethe motor tax was to fund the local authorities, as a replacement to water charges at that time. As local authorities are no longer responsible for funding water, and in the absence of full water charges, that money moves to Irish Water.
If everyone fully complied and paid their water charges what was going to be done with the money that was moved from motor tax revenue? Are you saying that in times of recession local authorities are building slack in to their budget or that it's a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul?
No, local authorities were supplying water, now they aren't, so the funding moves. Nothing to do with building slack.

I don't know what specifically would happen the motor tax revenue if IW became self finding through charges, but given that the country continues to run a deficit...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 13, 2015, 08:27:12 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 12, 2015, 11:53:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 12, 2015, 10:39:52 PM
Quotethe motor tax was to fund the local authorities, as a replacement to water charges at that time. As local authorities are no longer responsible for funding water, and in the absence of full water charges, that money moves to Irish Water.
If everyone fully complied and paid their water charges what was going to be done with the money that was moved from motor tax revenue? Are you saying that in times of recession local authorities are building slack in to their budget or that it's a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul?
No, local authorities were supplying water, now they aren't, so the funding moves. Nothing to do with building slack.

I don't know what specifically would happen the motor tax revenue if IW became self finding through charges, but given that the country continues to run a deficit...

A deficit you seem perfectly happy to increase with another super quango.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 13, 2015, 09:49:11 AM
Can I ask a really dumb question? Why doesn't motor tax fund investments in our road and transport infrastructure? It's labyrinthine at times.

I really think the best way to stop this nonsense about people complaining for paying for services provided, as well as giving people some level of confidence that their taxes are actually going somewhere sensible, every state and semi state should publish their accounts.

I know this is very difficult because we have never done this, but if Irish Water, for example, were to say we require x billion income to provide and maintain the service, based on the following expenditure, then people would be able to sensibly challenge the expenditure, or else accept it and realise that more money was needed (or not) from somewhere. Then a specific water charge which provided the correct income would be understandable at least, if still not universally loved.

At budget time, every department issues what it needs, and why, so the basis for this report is already there.

Give some visibility and people might be more knowledgeable and less angry when increases are necessary. The fact that such transparency is NOT available makes me think the government knows we are squandering money, and rather than tackle that, they prefer to levy more charges to raise the necessary funds.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on February 13, 2015, 09:51:16 AM
What, so that the barbers, taxi-drivers and Joeduffy jockeys would have to use facts? Couldn't work.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 13, 2015, 10:51:22 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 13, 2015, 09:51:16 AM
What, so that the barbers, taxi-drivers and Joeduffy jockeys would have to use facts? Couldn't work.

Is Hardy short for "Hard of learning"?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 13, 2015, 11:06:21 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 13, 2015, 09:51:16 AM
What, so that the barbers, taxi-drivers and Joeduffy jockeys would have to use facts? Couldn't work.
Brilliant  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Which of the above are Mikehunt and Foxcommander I wonder?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 13, 2015, 05:23:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 09:30:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 12, 2015, 09:19:33 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 12, 2015, 09:14:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 12, 2015, 08:49:31 PM
That doesn't stop the faux outrage.

Where did they think the money was coming from?

Taxpayers forking out more to cover banking debts and mismanagement of public money causes faux outrage?
Next you'll be saying there's no health crisis.

The water was paid for in the past. The water will need to be paid for in the future.

You are outraged abut this.

Where did you think the money came from in the past? And where would you take the money from in the future, assuming you want us to have water?

I'd turn this around and ask you why you pay income tax in the first place, and such a high rate at that.
They've been splitting out environment and infrastructure charges in recent times (privatising bin charges for example).

So according to the government this is what the money goes on

• State Administration (sack them all)
• Security (why do we need this? Where do we plan to invade next?)
• Education (Still requires subsidies from taxpayer)
• Community, Culture and Environment (WTF!)
• Infrastructure (Now being paid for by new taxes)
• Social Programmes (New Years eve fireworks?)
• Foreign Affairs (Licking Merkels boots)
• Health and Children (You are joking)
• Economic Supports (Helping bankers)
• Servicing Debts (You betcha!)

I see.

Well done whoever is behind this. You got me.  :D

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 13, 2015, 07:12:12 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 13, 2015, 08:27:12 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 12, 2015, 11:53:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 12, 2015, 10:39:52 PM
Quotethe motor tax was to fund the local authorities, as a replacement to water charges at that time. As local authorities are no longer responsible for funding water, and in the absence of full water charges, that money moves to Irish Water.
If everyone fully complied and paid their water charges what was going to be done with the money that was moved from motor tax revenue? Are you saying that in times of recession local authorities are building slack in to their budget or that it's a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul?
No, local authorities were supplying water, now they aren't, so the funding moves. Nothing to do with building slack.

I don't know what specifically would happen the motor tax revenue if IW became self finding through charges, but given that the country continues to run a deficit...

A deficit you seem perfectly happy to increase with another super quango.
Sometimes you have to spend money, unless you want to continue with a system that leaks at a rate of 40-50%, where people have to boil their water before they can use it, where there are water shortages and supply interruptions in Dublin...

You also seem to be missing the point that water charges were introduced to make IW self-funding (i.e. the full cost of running providing clean water and investing in infrastructure etc. being covered by charges), therefore not increasing the deficit.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 13, 2015, 07:15:27 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 13, 2015, 07:12:12 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 13, 2015, 08:27:12 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 12, 2015, 11:53:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 12, 2015, 10:39:52 PM
Quotethe motor tax was to fund the local authorities, as a replacement to water charges at that time. As local authorities are no longer responsible for funding water, and in the absence of full water charges, that money moves to Irish Water.
If everyone fully complied and paid their water charges what was going to be done with the money that was moved from motor tax revenue? Are you saying that in times of recession local authorities are building slack in to their budget or that it's a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul?
No, local authorities were supplying water, now they aren't, so the funding moves. Nothing to do with building slack.

I don't know what specifically would happen the motor tax revenue if IW became self finding through charges, but given that the country continues to run a deficit...

A deficit you seem perfectly happy to increase with another super quango.
Sometimes you have to spend money, unless you want to continue with a system that leaks at a rate of 40-50%, where people have to boil their water before they can use it, where there are water shortages and supply interruptions in Dublin...

You also seem to be missing the point that water charges were introduced to make IW self-funding (i.e. the full cost of running providing clean water and investing in infrastructure etc. being covered by charges), therefore not increasing the deficit.

The great advantages of populism is that you never have to add anything up.

Until some time after you get elected.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 13, 2015, 07:38:18 PM
In fairness it's not just the anti water charge brigade that seem averse to mathematics, or at least providing figures.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 13, 2015, 07:53:37 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 13, 2015, 07:38:18 PM
In fairness it's not just the anti water charge brigade that seem averse to mathematics, or at least providing figures.

Absolutely, I was thinking particularly of Bertienomics when I posted. IW has been a disaster, but the taxpayer is on the hook either way.

It reminds me of Homer Simpson when he ran for election:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpYVqZM4NnA&spfreload=10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpYVqZM4NnA&spfreload=10)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 13, 2015, 08:09:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 13, 2015, 07:53:37 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 13, 2015, 07:38:18 PM
In fairness it's not just the anti water charge brigade that seem averse to mathematics, or at least providing figures.

Absolutely, I was thinking particularly of Bertienomics when I posted. IW has been a disaster, but the taxpayer is on the hook either way.

It reminds me of Homer Simpson when he ran for election:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpYVqZM4NnA&spfreload=10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpYVqZM4NnA&spfreload=10)

I'd rather live in a dump than in a world run by snooty government officials garbage men
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 13, 2015, 09:27:36 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 13, 2015, 09:49:11 AM
I really think the best way to stop this nonsense about people complaining for paying for services provided, as well as giving people some level of confidence that their taxes are actually going somewhere sensible, every state and semi state should publish their accounts.

I know this is very difficult because we have never done this, but if Irish Water, for example, were to say we require x billion income to provide and maintain the service, based on the following expenditure, then people would be able to sensibly challenge the expenditure, or else accept it and realise that more money was needed (or not) from somewhere. Then a specific water charge which provided the correct income would be understandable at least, if still not universally loved.

At budget time, every department issues what it needs, and why, so the basis for this report is already there.

Give some visibility and people might be more knowledgeable and less angry when increases are necessary. The fact that such transparency is NOT available makes me think the government knows we are squandering money, and rather than tackle that, they prefer to levy more charges to raise the necessary funds.
Ironically, in the case of IW, this information is already published. Water charges are determined by the Commission for Energy Regulation (CER). IW essentially submit a business plan to the CER, setting out how much they plan to spend and on what, and base their proposed charges on this. The CER reviews this and makes determines how much IW is allowed to charge.
See here: http://www.water.ie/docs/Irish-Water-Charges-Plan.pdf
And for the detail: http://www.cer.ie/docs/000979/CER14454%20WCP%20Revenue%20Response%20&%20Decision%20Paper.pdf

But you're deluded if you think that 99% of the population would have any interest in actually reading this stuff.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 13, 2015, 11:38:40 PM
Does this detail how much income they are currently receiving, and from where? It seems to be a proposal for revenue and expenditure going forward. And it is a good document. If we have one of these for every dept you should be able to see exactly where our taxes are going. From this it appears as if 46% of the 2 billion over 3 years was to come from government subvention which is presumably from other taxes collected. That's just under 1 billion. 31% from domestic customers new charges and the remainder from non domestic.

Thanks for posting that. I do like the relatively detailed expenditure line items.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 14, 2015, 12:02:58 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 13, 2015, 11:38:40 PM
Does this detail how much income they are currently receiving, and from where? It seems to be a proposal for revenue and expenditure going forward. And it is a good document. If we have one of these for every dept you should be able to see exactly where our taxes are going. From this it appears as if 46% of the 2 billion over 3 years was to come from government subvention which is presumably from other taxes collected. That's just under 1 billion. 31% from domestic customers new charges and the remainder from non domestic.

Thanks for posting that. I do like the relatively detailed expenditure line items.
The government subvention is due to the government rolling back on implementing full charges from the start.

But you won't get this for other government bodies, just where there's economic regulation.

As to how much they're currently receiving, I'm not sure; the detail may be on the CER website somewhere and the source would presumably be from the big pot of general taxation. I don't know whether it would be any more transparent than when under the local authorities.

I'm sure you'd agree however, that while you like the detail in those documents, the vast majority of people, including those out protesting, wouldn't be as interested.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 14, 2015, 08:53:53 AM
Probably not, but when you can show the real, actual need for investment via charges, it takes away a lot of the rationale for the protests.

These figures, in a simple i&e, where people could query the figures that make up the expenditure, would be very easy to explain and defend. Or should be. It would also have the benefit of the actual agencies realising they are going to have to explain their requirements.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 14, 2015, 09:12:32 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 14, 2015, 08:53:53 AM
Probably not, but when you can show the real, actual need for investment via charges, it takes away a lot of the rationale for the protests.

These figures, in a simple i&e, where people could query the figures that make up the expenditure, would be very easy to explain and defend. Or should be. It would also have the benefit of the actual agencies realising they are going to have to explain their requirements.

It is a nice idea, introducing facts to the political arena, but I can't see it catching on.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 15, 2015, 04:40:42 AM
Olivia Mitchell. So if you disagree with policy you get a label?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op6qlBQ5Ha8

She needs a dictionary and a dose of cop on tablets.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on February 15, 2015, 12:20:00 PM
You really should be taking a good look at yourself when even Olivia Mitchell, even when she's making less sense than usual, makes more sense than you.

Hint: Policy wasn't even mentioned in that clip.
Hint eile: Check out the difference between disagreeing with policy and street yobbery.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 15, 2015, 02:18:44 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 15, 2015, 12:20:00 PM
You really should be taking a good look at yourself when even Olivia Mitchell, even when she's making less sense than usual, makes more sense than you.

Hint: Policy wasn't even mentioned in that clip.
Hint eile: Check out the difference between disagreeing with policy and street yobbery.

A bit too thick to read between the lines eh? Or maybe you just agree with Ms Mitchell.
The government policy, if you are too thick or ignorant to realise it, is to continually repeat the same words over and over again in relation to certain topics within the media. It's like they've been to some crappy one-day seminar with the spin doctors on language usage and now they're playing buzzword bingo.

Ms Mitchell mentioned the word "terrorists" to describe anyone who dares protest and raise their voice. Not clear enough?
Now justify her use of language.

Is having the truffle hunters from Templemore willing to raid peoples homes at 6am to arrest folk and detain them for questioning for hours at a time with no evidence ok?
I believe that was called internment in the 70's.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on February 15, 2015, 02:53:29 PM
Well why didn't you say that in the first place? I was indeed too thick, and way too ignorant to recognise the conspiracy you have so lucidly exposed. I hadn't a clue about the one-day seminar, the buzzword bingo, the victimisation of meek, innocent citizens who "dare to protest". I didn't know there was no evidence of any wrongdoing at Tallaght and nowhere in the media did I see the slightest mention of internment. Feckin' RTE, Irish Times, etc. in on the conspiracy too? Good lord. 

Can I apply to join your movement? What's it called again - Bowsies Against Democracy and Decency In Every Sense? Makes a grand acronym anyway. Can you send me on the handbook, so that I can learn OUR side's buzzwords. I loved "truffle hunters". If I could learn a few more like that I'm sure I'd make a great little fascist.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 15, 2015, 04:19:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 15, 2015, 02:18:44 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 15, 2015, 12:20:00 PM
You really should be taking a good look at yourself when even Olivia Mitchell, even when she's making less sense than usual, makes more sense than you.

Hint: Policy wasn't even mentioned in that clip.
Hint eile: Check out the difference between disagreeing with policy and street yobbery.

A bit too thick to read between the lines eh? Or maybe you just agree with Ms Mitchell.
The government policy, if you are too thick or ignorant to realise it, is to continually repeat the same words over and over again in relation to certain topics within the media. It's like they've been to some crappy one-day seminar with the spin doctors on language usage and now they're playing buzzword bingo.

Ms Mitchell mentioned the word "terrorists" to describe anyone who dares protest and raise their voice. Not clear enough?
Now justify her use of language.


Is having the truffle hunters from Templemore willing to raid peoples homes at 6am to arrest folk and detain them for questioning for hours at a time with no evidence ok?
I believe that was called internment in the 70's.

I don't think you are remotely real, but anyway, I'll bite.

That clip is 1 minute 36 seconds long.

If you tell me the number of times she used the word "terrorists", you know the word you claim she used and even put in inverted commas so we wouldn't miss it, then I promise we will all explain what she meant.

If however when you check the recording and discover that she never called them "terrorists", nor even used that word, then why don't you apologise to Ms Mitchell and the rest of us for making things up?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 15, 2015, 04:49:10 PM
These left wing hypocrites attacking working people doing their jobs putting water metres in public footpaths.
An alliance of upper class smoked salmon so called socialists with the pay nothing thug brigade.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water. Of the people that will pay twice I'd imagine a lot would be public/civil servants, which is the equivalent of asking Turkey's to vote on banning Christmas. They were always going to sign up. They will get it back in a form of rebate in their inflated salaries and defined benefit pensions.

However I am worried about the rumours of the Blueshirts introducing a new Motor Tax which by all accounts will be paid alongside the existing one. It will be based on the valuation of your car. Everyone will have to pay. Those that don't own a car will be charged the minimum fee of €200. The higher the value of the car the less tax you have to pay.

When asked about the rationale behind this, a spokesman explained that those who drive the big cars pay significant amounts on fuel and thus contribute already. When it was put to him that it was possible that those who don't own a car due to affordability issues would have to pay more than someone who owns a Maserati the spokesman responded "Absolutely, it is Fine Gale policy to fleece those that cannot afford it and transfer this non-existent wealth to the better off". The new tax will be called For Upkeep of Carbon and Kerosene Users or the FUCKU Tax. Phil Hogan has been approached to oversee the implementation.   
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2015, 02:04:48 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water. Of the people that will pay twice I'd imagine a lot would be public/civil servants, which is the equivalent of asking Turkey's to vote on banning Christmas. They were always going to sign up. They will get it back in a form of rebate in their inflated salaries and defined benefit pensions.

However I am worried about the rumours of the Blueshirts introducing a new Motor Tax which by all accounts will be paid alongside the existing one. It will be based on the valuation of your car. Everyone will have to pay. Those that don't own a car will be charged the minimum fee of €200. The higher the value of the car the less tax you have to pay.

When asked about the rationale behind this, a spokesman explained that those who drive the big cars pay significant amounts on fuel and thus contribute already. When it was put to him that it was possible that those who don't own a car due to affordability issues would have to pay more than someone who owns a Maserati the spokesman responded "Absolutely, it is Fine Gale policy to fleece those that cannot afford it and transfer this non-existent wealth to the better off". The new tax will be called For Upkeep of Carbon and Kerosene Users or the FUCKU Tax. Phil Hogan has been approached to oversee the implementation.

We pay up to 5 taxes on cars already.

Road Tax
Fuel Excise Duty
Fuel VAT
VRT in new registrations
VAT on transactions involving dealers



Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 02:39:01 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Irish Water.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 02:41:50 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Irish Water.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 03:27:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Already paying for them via road tax?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2015, 04:24:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 03:27:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Already paying for them via road tax?

You only discovered this a couple of weeks ago. Remember you were outraged.  ;D ;D

But you were against it already, so this couldn't be your reason for being against it.   :D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

The fact that Dennis O Brien bought the company that installed the water meters. A company he bought off IBRC despite it being one of the lowest offers. This company were then awarded the contract to install the meters. Said meters are now redundant. Result =  Tax payers are out of money but DOB wins. Let me know if you want me to explain historic links between FG, DOB, state contracts and cost to the taxpayer.

People here will have you believe this is about water infrastructure. None so blind as those that will not see.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 16, 2015, 04:27:29 PM
Loads of people outside the cosseted suburbs already pay "twice" for water.
I see Ogle is now trying to organise a lefty alliance .
I presume they'll fix everything and nobody will have to pay anything ???
I've added that "mikehunt" loolah to my ignore list
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2015, 04:36:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

The fact that Dennis O Brien bought the company that installed the water meters. A company he bought off IBRC despite it being one of the lowest offers. This company were then awarded the contract to install the meters. Said meters are now redundant. Result =  Tax payers are out of money but DOB wins. Let me know if you want me to explain historic links between FG, DOB, state contracts and cost to the taxpayer.

People here will have you believe this is about water infrastructure. None so blind as those that will not see.

Whatever about O'Brien's involvement, the water metres made sense. But the populist hysteria of the lunatic fringe, followed by the lack of vertebrae of the Government led us this farcical situation.

No doubt more farces are on the way, but both sides are to blame.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 04:59:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 04:24:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 03:27:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Already paying for them via road tax?

You only discovered this a couple of weeks ago. Remember you were outraged.  ;D ;D

But you were against it already, so this couldn't be your reason for being against it.   :D

Was providing an example.

If all you lads are so up for paying for water charges then you can pay my bill. Who can I send it to?
You'll all shut up when you can't afford to live on your wages. Funnily enough you seem quite content to pay anything that Enda decides to put your way including saddling future generations with the bailout.



Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2015, 05:08:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 04:59:01 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 04:24:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 03:27:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Already paying for them via road tax?

You only discovered this a couple of weeks ago. Remember you were outraged.  ;D ;D

But you were against it already, so this couldn't be your reason for being against it.   :D

Was providing an example.

If all you lads are so up for paying for water charges then you can pay my bill. Who can I send it to?
You'll all shut up when you can't afford to live on your wages. Funnily enough you seem quite content to pay anything that Enda decides to put your way including saddling future generations with the bailout.

There really isn't any point in telling you for the 20th time, but what the hey.

Water charges are part of the Troika Bailout programme. Check it up if you don't believe me.

We could tear the bailout agreement up and join Greece on the brink of oblivion, but considering we have honoured every other vastly more expensive part of the bailout, we would be spectacular imbeciles to try to pull the whole thing down now.

Blame Enda all you want, but it betrays another agenda. Not only did Enda not sign us up for this, he may not even be aware he didn't sign us up for this. Portraying him as a tax gouging monster is just silly, if Santa Claus was Taoiseach he would have had to do the same thing. Though he may have packaged it better.

You want Enda out and your people in. Fair enough. But just come out and say it and don't hide behind faux outrage over nonsense like water charges.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 16, 2015, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 03:27:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Already paying for them via road tax?
You're not paying enough. If you were, the country wouldn't be running a deficit.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 05:26:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 04:36:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

The fact that Dennis O Brien bought the company that installed the water meters. A company he bought off IBRC despite it being one of the lowest offers. This company were then awarded the contract to install the meters. Said meters are now redundant. Result =  Tax payers are out of money but DOB wins. Let me know if you want me to explain historic links between FG, DOB, state contracts and cost to the taxpayer.

People here will have you believe this is about water infrastructure. None so blind as those that will not see.


Whatever about O'Brien's involvement, the water metres made sense. But the populist hysteria of the lunatic fringe, followed by the lack of vertebrae of the Government led us this farcical situation.

No doubt more farces are on the way, but both sides are to blame.

I love the snobbery when people call protestors "the lunatic fringe", "looney lefts". One hundred thousand protested in Dublin last year and thousands others across the country did the same. That's a lot of lunatics. Enough lunatcis to make the govt change tact. Once the people smelled a rat the govt left the ship that is Irish Water like the rats they are.

A lot of people, myself included, have no problem paying for water. Our problem is with Irish Water. Another HSE type set up where efficiency, accountability, transparency and value for money are nowhere to be seen. I would prefer to open it up to competition to private companies. Give a regulator powers over pricing. There are problems with privatisation but it's preferable to the quango that the Blueshirts want to set up. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 16, 2015, 05:27:14 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 02:41:50 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Irish Water.
That's an argument against the management / administration, not charges.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2015, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 05:26:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 04:36:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

The fact that Dennis O Brien bought the company that installed the water meters. A company he bought off IBRC despite it being one of the lowest offers. This company were then awarded the contract to install the meters. Said meters are now redundant. Result =  Tax payers are out of money but DOB wins. Let me know if you want me to explain historic links between FG, DOB, state contracts and cost to the taxpayer.

People here will have you believe this is about water infrastructure. None so blind as those that will not see.


Whatever about O'Brien's involvement, the water metres made sense. But the populist hysteria of the lunatic fringe, followed by the lack of vertebrae of the Government led us this farcical situation.

No doubt more farces are on the way, but both sides are to blame.

I love the snobbery when people call protestors "the lunatic fringe", "looney lefts". One hundred thousand protested in Dublin last year and thousands others across the country did the same. That's a lot of lunatics. Enough lunatcis to make the govt change tact. Once the people smelled a rat the govt left the ship that is Irish Water like the rats they are.

A lot of people, myself included, have no problem paying for water. Our problem is with Irish Water. Another HSE type set up where efficiency, accountability, transparency and value for money are nowhere to be seen. I would prefer to open it up to competition to private companies. Give a regulator powers over pricing. There are problems with privatisation but it's preferable to the quango that the Blueshirts want to set up.

Yes you get offended when I criticise one side, but ignore my criticism of the other side. So you are not against criticism, merely against criticism of the side you support.

Meanwhile in your last 10 posts you have called people blind, turkeys voting for Christmas and delusional. 'Lunatic fringe' is obviously below the belt.

But then you also defended Paul Murphy.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 05:33:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2015, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 03:27:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Already paying for them via road tax?
You're not paying enough. If you were, the country wouldn't be running a deficit.

Your approach to address the defecit is to introduce a HSE II? Jesus wept.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 16, 2015, 05:33:45 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 05:26:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 04:36:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

The fact that Dennis O Brien bought the company that installed the water meters. A company he bought off IBRC despite it being one of the lowest offers. This company were then awarded the contract to install the meters. Said meters are now redundant. Result =  Tax payers are out of money but DOB wins. Let me know if you want me to explain historic links between FG, DOB, state contracts and cost to the taxpayer.

People here will have you believe this is about water infrastructure. None so blind as those that will not see.


Whatever about O'Brien's involvement, the water metres made sense. But the populist hysteria of the lunatic fringe, followed by the lack of vertebrae of the Government led us this farcical situation.

No doubt more farces are on the way, but both sides are to blame.

I love the snobbery when people call protestors "the lunatic fringe", "looney lefts". One hundred thousand protested in Dublin last year and thousands others across the country did the same. That's a lot of lunatics. Enough lunatcis to make the govt change tact. Once the people smelled a rat the govt left the ship that is Irish Water like the rats they are.

A lot of people, myself included, have no problem paying for water. Our problem is with Irish Water. Another HSE type set up where efficiency, accountability, transparency and value for money are nowhere to be seen. I would prefer to open it up to competition to private companies. Give a regulator powers over pricing. There are problems with privatisation but it's preferable to the quango that the Blueshirts want to set up.
A regulator DOES have power over pricing. The same as if a private company was in charge. The difference is that any IW profits won't go to private shareholders. At least know the basics if you're going on a rant.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2015, 05:40:10 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 05:33:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2015, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 03:27:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Already paying for them via road tax?
You're not paying enough. If you were, the country wouldn't be running a deficit.

Your approach to address the defecit is to introduce a HSE II? Jesus wept.

And what is yours?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 06:12:20 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 15, 2015, 02:53:29 PM
I loved "truffle hunters".

:-*
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 06:14:02 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

The fact that Dennis O Brien bought the company that installed the water meters. A company he bought off IBRC despite it being one of the lowest offers. This company were then awarded the contract to install the meters. Said meters are now redundant. Result =  Tax payers are out of money but DOB wins. Let me know if you want me to explain historic links between FG, DOB, state contracts and cost to the taxpayer.

People here will have you believe this is about water infrastructure. None so blind as those that will not see.

So it's to do with how IW was setup rather than with the charges themselves?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 06:25:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 05:08:18 PM


We could tear the bailout agreement up and join Greece on the brink of oblivion, but considering we have honoured every other vastly more expensive part of the bailout, we would be spectacular imbeciles to try to pull the whole thing down now.


How much has been paid and how much is left to pay?


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2015, 06:39:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 06:25:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 05:08:18 PM


We could tear the bailout agreement up and join Greece on the brink of oblivion, but considering we have honoured every other vastly more expensive part of the bailout, we would be spectacular imbeciles to try to pull the whole thing down now.


How much has been paid and how much is left to pay?

€30bn to Anglo, (best case).
€6.5bn to AIB
€5.5 Irish Nationwide
€3.5bn BoI
€350k EBS

The rate at which we are repaying the above has changed, so the total amount we will have to pay back in the end has come down a bit. FG/Labour are claiming credit for this very, very, minor achievement. It is about their only achievement.

But people here need to understand that we were railroaded into taking on board all of that debt, first because of the Bank Guarantee, and second because of a pincer movement (ECB and Prof Honohan) shafting the last Government, just as negotiations were getting underway with the Troika.

We were never going to able to do an Iceland or Argentina style default, but we should have done what Greece are doing now and taken the ECB to the brink, at the very latest before we signed up to the Bailout. Then we had some leverage. We would have had to sign some version of a bailout, default was not realistic, but I think we had the ECB over a barrel and could have negotiated a much better deal. Hence my problem with Honohan.




http://www.thejournal.ie/in-numbers-the-banking-bailout-30272-Oct2010/ (http://www.thejournal.ie/in-numbers-the-banking-bailout-30272-Oct2010/)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 07:29:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 05:40:10 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 05:33:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2015, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 03:27:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Already paying for them via road tax?
You're not paying enough. If you were, the country wouldn't be running a deficit.

Your approach to address the defecit is to introduce a HSE II? Jesus wept.

And what is yours?
They've been to the trough once too often. Time for them to look at cutting costs.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2015, 08:36:44 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 07:29:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 05:40:10 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 05:33:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2015, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 03:27:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Already paying for them via road tax?
You're not paying enough. If you were, the country wouldn't be running a deficit.

Your approach to address the defecit is to introduce a HSE II? Jesus wept.

And what is yours?
They've been to the trough once too often. Time for them to look at cutting costs.

Such as?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 08:42:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 08:36:44 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 07:29:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 05:40:10 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 05:33:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2015, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 03:27:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Already paying for them via road tax?
You're not paying enough. If you were, the country wouldn't be running a deficit.

Your approach to address the defecit is to introduce a HSE II? Jesus wept.

And what is yours?
They've been to the trough once too often. Time for them to look at cutting costs.

Such as?

Lets start with government pensions/payments/parachutes including all past politicians.

How about them leading by example first.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2015, 08:43:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 08:42:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 08:36:44 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 07:29:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 05:40:10 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 05:33:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2015, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 03:27:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Already paying for them via road tax?
You're not paying enough. If you were, the country wouldn't be running a deficit.

Your approach to address the defecit is to introduce a HSE II? Jesus wept.

And what is yours?
They've been to the trough once too often. Time for them to look at cutting costs.

Such as?

Lets start with government pensions/payments/parachutes including all past politicians.

How about them leading by example first.

I couldn't agree more.

Now show me which party has that as their policy and I will vote for them 100%.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 16, 2015, 09:32:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 08:43:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 08:42:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 08:36:44 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 07:29:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 05:40:10 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 05:33:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2015, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 03:27:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Already paying for them via road tax?
You're not paying enough. If you were, the country wouldn't be running a deficit.

Your approach to address the defecit is to introduce a HSE II? Jesus wept.

And what is yours?
They've been to the trough once too often. Time for them to look at cutting costs.

Such as?

Lets start with government pensions/payments/parachutes including all past politicians.

How about them leading by example first.

I couldn't agree more.

Now show me which party has that as their policy and I will vote for them 100%.
We need a revolution!!!

It's not just the politicians who need a salary/expenses haircut!

The quangos and civil service too!

Loads of scope to reduce cost and at least pay to fix the pipes that are leaking up to 50% of the treated water ( according to yesterday's papers and the guy I know who works in the water industry).

But as you say, gov and civil servants won't vote for cuts!

Sure we can't make the cops to walk the beat/streets anymore - even the fresh recruits are above this!!!! Or so they think!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 09:43:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 08:43:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 08:42:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 08:36:44 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 07:29:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 05:40:10 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 05:33:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2015, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 16, 2015, 03:27:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

Already paying for them via road tax?
You're not paying enough. If you were, the country wouldn't be running a deficit.

Your approach to address the defecit is to introduce a HSE II? Jesus wept.

And what is yours?
They've been to the trough once too often. Time for them to look at cutting costs.

Such as?

Lets start with government pensions/payments/parachutes including all past politicians.

How about them leading by example first.

I couldn't agree more.

Now show me which party has that as their policy and I will vote for them 100%.

It's a shame that wasn't included in the troika's terms for the bailout plan.
Problem is that while these payments are ringfenced the ordinary citizen's wages aren't.

It's not a democratic society whenever such sums are being paid out to failed politicians.
over 30 ex TD's and Taoiseach receive 100k+ per annum. Some of these lot are responsible for the state of the country.

I don't care if it's in a contract that they get these sums. That contract should be null and void.

To answer your question muppet: there are a few select politicians who are in it for the right reasons but the majority want on that gravy train...

sitting on your hole for 10 years and getting 1 million euro in the process doesnt sound so bad.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 16, 2015, 10:05:08 PM
What happened Noonan's eye?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2015, 10:23:22 PM
https://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/2010/irl/120310.pdf (https://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/2010/irl/120310.pdf)

Have a read of the commitments given. Most have been honoured, except a lot of the PS stuff.

I understand that the Croke Parke Agreement expired last year. The Government had committed to further PS finances reform, especially the astronomical PS pension bill which is around €3bn p/a. New PS workers will have funded their pensions. But the older ones never did, the pension comes straight from the exchequer.

When you consider Government revenue has been as low as €30n recently and was probably around €36n last year, €3bn is an awful lot to give just to retired PS workers.

FF/PD/Greens created this PS financial monster. FG/Labour have done absolutely nothing about it. And now it looks likely that we will have a left-wing Government next time out. Does anyone seriously think they will tackle this problem?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 16, 2015, 11:00:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 10:23:22 PM
https://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/2010/irl/120310.pdf (https://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/2010/irl/120310.pdf)

a. New PS workers will have funded their pensions. But the older ones never did, the pension comes straight from the exchequer.

[/quote

Mr Muppet - most public servants (Council ,HSE etc) have had 6.5% of their pay deducted . Civil servants who work directly for Govt didn't gave this deduction.
The 6.5% deductions are used to pay current pensioners.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 16, 2015, 11:21:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 10:23:22 PM
https://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/2010/irl/120310.pdf (https://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/2010/irl/120310.pdf)

Have a read of the commitments given. Most have been honoured, except a lot of the PS stuff.

I understand that the Croke Parke Agreement expired last year. The Government had committed to further PS finances reform, especially the astronomical PS pension bill which is around €3bn p/a. New PS workers will have funded their pensions. But the older ones never did, the pension comes straight from the exchequer.

Because more retirees are in the old system they do not receive the old age pension, so their pensions are larger than an equivalent group of private sector people as a consequence. In another decade or two people will start retiring with pensions reduced by the old age pension, this will have no effect whatsoever on the public finances but the PS pension bill will fall.

QuoteWhen you consider Government revenue has been as low as €30n recently and was probably around €36n last year, €3bn is an awful lot to give just to retired PS workers.

Government revenue has never been €30bn, more like €50bn, but don't let facts spoil a rant.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 17, 2015, 04:34:36 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6v7cZ3CIAIqfZt.jpg:large)

Young Enda had such hopes for the future...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 17, 2015, 04:37:01 AM
(http://i59.tinypic.com/mhvh4j.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 17, 2015, 04:41:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 16, 2015, 11:21:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 10:23:22 PM
https://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/2010/irl/120310.pdf (https://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/2010/irl/120310.pdf)

Have a read of the commitments given. Most have been honoured, except a lot of the PS stuff.

I understand that the Croke Parke Agreement expired last year. The Government had committed to further PS finances reform, especially the astronomical PS pension bill which is around €3bn p/a. New PS workers will have funded their pensions. But the older ones never did, the pension comes straight from the exchequer.

Because more retirees are in the old system they do not receive the old age pension, so their pensions are larger than an equivalent group of private sector people as a consequence. In another decade or two people will start retiring with pensions reduced by the old age pension, this will have no effect whatsoever on the public finances but the PS pension bill will fall.

QuoteWhen you consider Government revenue has been as low as €30n recently and was probably around €36n last year, €3bn is an awful lot to give just to retired PS workers.

Government revenue has never been €30bn, more like €50bn, but don't let facts spoil a rant.

I should have said tax revenue.

(http://www.finfacts.ie/artman/uploads/3/ESRI-tax-revenues-Irish-economy-July142010.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 17, 2015, 08:32:17 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2015, 05:33:45 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 05:26:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 04:36:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

The fact that Dennis O Brien bought the company that installed the water meters. A company he bought off IBRC despite it being one of the lowest offers. This company were then awarded the contract to install the meters. Said meters are now redundant. Result =  Tax payers are out of money but DOB wins. Let me know if you want me to explain historic links between FG, DOB, state contracts and cost to the taxpayer.

People here will have you believe this is about water infrastructure. None so blind as those that will not see.


Whatever about O'Brien's involvement, the water metres made sense. But the populist hysteria of the lunatic fringe, followed by the lack of vertebrae of the Government led us this farcical situation.

No doubt more farces are on the way, but both sides are to blame.

I love the snobbery when people call protestors "the lunatic fringe", "looney lefts". One hundred thousand protested in Dublin last year and thousands others across the country did the same. That's a lot of lunatics. Enough lunatcis to make the govt change tact. Once the people smelled a rat the govt left the ship that is Irish Water like the rats they are.

A lot of people, myself included, have no problem paying for water. Our problem is with Irish Water. Another HSE type set up where efficiency, accountability, transparency and value for money are nowhere to be seen. I would prefer to open it up to competition to private companies. Give a regulator powers over pricing. There are problems with privatisation but it's preferable to the quango that the Blueshirts want to set up.
A regulator DOES have power over pricing. The same as if a private company was in charge. The difference is that any IW profits won't go to private shareholders. At least know the basics if you're going on a rant.
This regulator have as much power as a weak fart. A competitive market with private companies is preferable to the farce that is Irish Water. Bonus guaranteed in a monopoly situation. Where's the motivation to be efficient?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 17, 2015, 08:16:57 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 17, 2015, 08:32:17 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2015, 05:33:45 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 05:26:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 04:36:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

The fact that Dennis O Brien bought the company that installed the water meters. A company he bought off IBRC despite it being one of the lowest offers. This company were then awarded the contract to install the meters. Said meters are now redundant. Result =  Tax payers are out of money but DOB wins. Let me know if you want me to explain historic links between FG, DOB, state contracts and cost to the taxpayer.

People here will have you believe this is about water infrastructure. None so blind as those that will not see.


Whatever about O'Brien's involvement, the water metres made sense. But the populist hysteria of the lunatic fringe, followed by the lack of vertebrae of the Government led us this farcical situation.

No doubt more farces are on the way, but both sides are to blame.

I love the snobbery when people call protestors "the lunatic fringe", "looney lefts". One hundred thousand protested in Dublin last year and thousands others across the country did the same. That's a lot of lunatics. Enough lunatcis to make the govt change tact. Once the people smelled a rat the govt left the ship that is Irish Water like the rats they are.

A lot of people, myself included, have no problem paying for water. Our problem is with Irish Water. Another HSE type set up where efficiency, accountability, transparency and value for money are nowhere to be seen. I would prefer to open it up to competition to private companies. Give a regulator powers over pricing. There are problems with privatisation but it's preferable to the quango that the Blueshirts want to set up.
A regulator DOES have power over pricing. The same as if a private company was in charge. The difference is that any IW profits won't go to private shareholders. At least know the basics if you're going on a rant.
This regulator have as much power as a weak fart. A competitive market with private companies is preferable to the farce that is Irish Water. Bonus guaranteed in a monopoly situation. Where's the motivation to be efficient?
The regulator sets the water charges, exactly what you were asking for. So unless you can give some specifics...

But tell us about this competitive market for water. What does it look like? How does it work?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 19, 2015, 12:52:11 PM
Lads, is this any of ye? :D

http://youtu.be/bAc6VWD5yRU (http://youtu.be/bAc6VWD5yRU)

This is in Baileborough I think. Why have they all Dub accents? The water lad waving at the camera in the middle is class :) The dive is class. Ah Jaysus, I'm injured. Dirtied his tracksuit mind you.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Owenmoresider on February 19, 2015, 01:29:27 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 19, 2015, 12:52:11 PM
Lads, is this any of ye? :D

http://youtu.be/bAc6VWD5yRU (http://youtu.be/bAc6VWD5yRU)

This is in Baileborough I think. Why have they all Dub accents? The water lad waving at the camera in the middle is class :) The dive is class. Ah Jaysus, I'm injured. Dirtied his tracksuit mind you.
Wouldn't Bailieboro Virginia etc. have had an influx there during the boom years, given the N3 made it easy enough getting back to the smoke? That worker waving is gas. This guy makes a mockery of the protests, in contrast to the scum element on the northside showing off their protest work on YT.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 01:54:29 PM
Or is a bunch of Jackeen lefties loons going round the country attacking working people doing their jobs?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Asal Mor on February 19, 2015, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 19, 2015, 12:52:11 PM
Lads, is this any of ye? :D

http://youtu.be/bAc6VWD5yRU (http://youtu.be/bAc6VWD5yRU)

This is in Baileborough I think. Why have they all Dub accents? The water lad waving at the camera in the middle is class :) The dive is class. Ah Jaysus, I'm injured. Dirtied his tracksuit mind you.
;D Hilarious
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on February 19, 2015, 04:14:37 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 05:26:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2015, 04:36:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 04:25:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 16, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 16, 2015, 01:55:45 PM
So it appears that 6 in 10 Irish people are rightly refusing to pay twice for their water.

I have yet to hear a decent case put forward for not paying water charges - do you have one Mike??

The fact that Dennis O Brien bought the company that installed the water meters. A company he bought off IBRC despite it being one of the lowest offers. This company were then awarded the contract to install the meters. Said meters are now redundant. Result =  Tax payers are out of money but DOB wins. Let me know if you want me to explain historic links between FG, DOB, state contracts and cost to the taxpayer.

People here will have you believe this is about water infrastructure. None so blind as those that will not see.


Whatever about O'Brien's involvement, the water metres made sense. But the populist hysteria of the lunatic fringe, followed by the lack of vertebrae of the Government led us this farcical situation.

No doubt more farces are on the way, but both sides are to blame.

I love the snobbery when people call protestors "the lunatic fringe", "looney lefts". One hundred thousand protested in Dublin last year and thousands others across the country did the same. That's a lot of lunatics. Enough lunatcis to make the govt change tact. Once the people smelled a rat the govt left the ship that is Irish Water like the rats they are.

A lot of people, myself included, have no problem paying for water. Our problem is with Irish Water. Another HSE type set up where efficiency, accountability, transparency and value for money are nowhere to be seen. I would prefer to open it up to competition to private companies. Give a regulator powers over pricing. There are problems with privatisation but it's preferable to the quango that the Blueshirts want to set up.

Mike, so you set up water privately, I have too issues.

1. Who supplies rural Ireland, or spends the money on rural infrastructure? It certainly doesn't make economic sense to feed most parts of rural Ireland water. So it would become too expensive for these people. At the moment that connection cost is spread evenly across all water users.

2. And this is the doozy, what would you do with the people who are currently working in Irish Water? These people were TUPEd in from local authorities, they are 100% covered by employment law, you have to pay them to do the job they were contracted to do (so let's not say put them sweeping the streets etc)

Just wondering in magic private sector land how these problems are solved?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 19, 2015, 04:32:47 PM
I can't figure out if this is a pisstake or not. They are getting a month, or 2 months for contempt of court, which may or may not be harsh as I don't know the circumstances but some of the report made me think this was all a joke or something.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/five-water-charge-protesters-jailed-amid-chaotic-scenes-in-court-31005859.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/five-water-charge-protesters-jailed-amid-chaotic-scenes-in-court-31005859.html)
1 - One of them has a cap on in the photo that says Je Suis Derek, a lá Je Suis Charlie. Really?

2 - The same guy addressed a crowd of about 50 before the sentencing hearing and said ""Now, I don't want to see any tears,". WTF? Did he think he was going to be sentenced to hang or something?

3 - The reply made me smile though, "You won't see tears, you'll see cheers," someone replied.

4 - One of the defendants wasn't in court because "All were in court apart from Mr Batty who, the court was told, needed to be in a dry and sunny climate due to chronic asthma." Although presumably he was okay to be in Ireland and out hassling the water workers.

I think this whole water charges thing has been handled dreadfully, but I don't think these guys do the anti-charge brigade any favours.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Denn Forever on February 19, 2015, 04:40:48 PM
I know Dessie Farrall wants to increase the Profile of the GPA but getting arrested is a bit much.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 04:59:38 PM
Jailing people for protesting just shows the depths this country has plunged. A sad day for the Republic and just as well the Blueshirts will be gone when the 1916 commemoration comes around.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on February 19, 2015, 05:01:43 PM
Who was jailed for protesting? I missed that news.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 05:44:25 PM
Attacking workers going about their jobs on a public footpath isn't "protesting".
It's criminal thuggery and jail is the appropriate place for them.
I suppose mikehunt hopes a SF/loonyleftloolah Government will be in power in April 16.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 19, 2015, 06:13:00 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 19, 2015, 05:01:43 PM
Who was jailed for protesting? I missed that news.

Hopefully that knob Murphy.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 05:44:25 PM
Attacking workers going about their jobs on a public footpath isn't "protesting".
It's criminal thuggery and jail is the appropriate place for them.
I suppose mikehunt hopes a SF/loonyleftloolah Government will be in power in April 16.

Would you support workers crossing a picket line?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 19, 2015, 06:27:49 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 05:44:25 PM
Attacking workers going about their jobs on a public footpath isn't "protesting".
It's criminal thuggery and jail is the appropriate place for them.
I suppose mikehunt hopes a SF/loonyleftloolah Government will be in power in April 16.

Would you support workers crossing a picket line?

There are laws for that too.

Do it properly and you don't have to cross. Do it unofficially and you are liable for any losses the employers incur.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 05:44:25 PM
Attacking workers going about their jobs on a public footpath isn't "protesting".
It's criminal thuggery and jail is the appropriate place for them.
I suppose mikehunt hopes a SF/loonyleftloolah Government will be in power in April 16.

Would you support workers crossing a picket line?
What's that got to do with it?
This isn't an industrial dispute - it's thugs breaking the law.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:53:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 05:44:25 PM
Attacking workers going about their jobs on a public footpath isn't "protesting".
It's criminal thuggery and jail is the appropriate place for them.
I suppose mikehunt hopes a SF/loonyleftloolah Government will be in power in April 16.

Would you support workers crossing a picket line?
What's that got to do with it?
This isn't an industrial dispute - it's thugs breaking the law.
I haven't heard of anyone being hurt at these protests and your insistence on calling peaceful protesters thugs is a bit over the top but you're obviously believing the rubbish being spouted in the media. Idimagine you're the type that has no problem with workers crossing a picket line.  Not surprised reading your previous comments.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 19, 2015, 07:02:20 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:53:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 05:44:25 PM
Attacking workers going about their jobs on a public footpath isn't "protesting".
It's criminal thuggery and jail is the appropriate place for them.
I suppose mikehunt hopes a SF/loonyleftloolah Government will be in power in April 16.

Would you support workers crossing a picket line?
What's that got to do with it?
This isn't an industrial dispute - it's thugs breaking the law.
I haven't heard of anyone being hurt at these protests and your insistence on calling peaceful protesters thugs is a bit over the top but you're obviously believing the rubbish being spouted in the media. Idimagine you're the type that has no problem with workers crossing a picket line.  Not surprised reading your previous comments.

Mike - Joan Burton was traumatised from her ordeal. Isn't that enough?
Hang 'em high and make examples of them. Non-compliance will not be tolerated.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 19, 2015, 07:06:07 PM
I do love this one....

(http://c0.thejournal.ie/media/2014/04/gilmore-water-charges-630x248.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 07:08:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2015, 07:02:20 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:53:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 05:44:25 PM
Attacking workers going about their jobs on a public footpath isn't "protesting".
It's criminal thuggery and jail is the appropriate place for them.
I suppose mikehunt hopes a SF/loonyleftloolah Government will be in power in April 16.

Would you support workers crossing a picket line?
What's that got to do with it?
This isn't an industrial dispute - it's thugs breaking the law.
I haven't heard of anyone being hurt at these protests and your insistence on calling peaceful protesters thugs is a bit over the top but you're obviously believing the rubbish being spouted in the media. Idimagine you're the type that has no problem with workers crossing a picket line.  Not surprised reading your previous comments.

Mike - Joan Burton was traumatised from her ordeal. Isn't that enough?
Hang 'em high and make examples of them. Non-compliance will not be tolerated.
Worrying times commander. Am expecting them to hire debt collectors to come looking for the money. Either that or revenue.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 19, 2015, 07:23:32 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 07:08:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2015, 07:02:20 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:53:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 05:44:25 PM
Attacking workers going about their jobs on a public footpath isn't "protesting".
It's criminal thuggery and jail is the appropriate place for them.
I suppose mikehunt hopes a SF/loonyleftloolah Government will be in power in April 16.

Would you support workers crossing a picket line?
What's that got to do with it?
This isn't an industrial dispute - it's thugs breaking the law.
I haven't heard of anyone being hurt at these protests and your insistence on calling peaceful protesters thugs is a bit over the top but you're obviously believing the rubbish being spouted in the media. Idimagine you're the type that has no problem with workers crossing a picket line.  Not surprised reading your previous comments.

Mike - Joan Burton was traumatised from her ordeal. Isn't that enough?
Hang 'em high and make examples of them. Non-compliance will not be tolerated.
Worrying times commander. Am expecting them to hire debt collectors to come looking for the money. Either that or revenue.

Nicely takes the focus off the real crooks, doesn't it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 19, 2015, 07:47:20 PM
A good read for those interested in the idea of water privatisation.

http://andrewgavinmarshall.com/2013/04/22/human-beings-have-no-right-to-water-and-other-words-of-wisdom-from-your-friendly-neighborhood-global-oligarch/


and GMO's are good for you. Fact.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on February 19, 2015, 07:58:16 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2015, 07:47:20 PM
A good read for those interested in the idea of water privatisation.

http://andrewgavinmarshall.com/2013/04/22/human-beings-have-no-right-to-water-and-other-words-of-wisdom-from-your-friendly-neighborhood-global-oligarch/ (http://andrewgavinmarshall.com/2013/04/22/human-beings-have-no-right-to-water-and-other-words-of-wisdom-from-your-friendly-neighborhood-global-oligarch/)

OK. If those are to be the tactics:

A good read for those interested in the use of street thuggery for political goals (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mein-Kampf-Adolf-Hitler/dp/817224164X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424375712&sr=8-1&keywords=mein+kampf)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 19, 2015, 08:09:39 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 19, 2015, 07:58:16 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2015, 07:47:20 PM
A good read for those interested in the idea of water privatisation.

http://andrewgavinmarshall.com/2013/04/22/human-beings-have-no-right-to-water-and-other-words-of-wisdom-from-your-friendly-neighborhood-global-oligarch/ (http://andrewgavinmarshall.com/2013/04/22/human-beings-have-no-right-to-water-and-other-words-of-wisdom-from-your-friendly-neighborhood-global-oligarch/)

OK. If those are to be the tactics:

A good read for those interested in the use of street thuggery for political goals (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mein-Kampf-Adolf-Hitler/dp/817224164X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424375712&sr=8-1&keywords=mein+kampf)

Is it the truffle hunters handbook?  :-*
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:53:58 PM
. Idimagine you're the type that has no problem with workers crossing a picket line.  Not surprised reading your previous comments.
You'd better rein that imagination of yours - I'm a Trade union member most of my working life and am the Union rep where I work.
That is one of the reasons I am so annoyed at so called "Socialists" ( Paul Murphy upper class smoked salmon ones perhaps)attacking working people trying to do a job and earn a few €s to feed their families.
Foxc an Mikeh should go on the stage - Laurel and Hardy weren't in it compared to that double act. ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 19, 2015, 08:56:08 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 04:59:38 PM
Jailing people for protesting just shows the depths this country has plunged. A sad day for the Republic and just as well the Blueshirts will be gone when the 1916 commemoration comes around.
They were jailed for contempt of court, not for protesting.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 19, 2015, 09:05:12 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 19, 2015, 08:56:08 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 04:59:38 PM
Jailing people for protesting just shows the depths this country has plunged. A sad day for the Republic and just as well the Blueshirts will be gone when the 1916 commemoration comes around.
They were jailed for contempt of court, not for protesting.

So they were IN court just for fun were they?
Maybe they are the thieves behind the banking crisis? Now which one of those is locked up?

Oh thats right...community service...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 19, 2015, 09:10:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2015, 09:05:12 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 19, 2015, 08:56:08 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 04:59:38 PM
Jailing people for protesting just shows the depths this country has plunged. A sad day for the Republic and just as well the Blueshirts will be gone when the 1916 commemoration comes around.
They were jailed for contempt of court, not for protesting.

So they were IN court just for fun were they?
Maybe they are the thieves behind the banking crisis? Now which one of those is locked up?

I would lock up all the protestors and all of the bankers, together, permanently.

The protestors are in jail both for breaking the law, and for their incredible stupidity. I deeply regret they are not in jail for inflicting their random thuggery on the rest of our hard working society.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 10:05:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:53:58 PM
. Idimagine you're the type that has no problem with workers crossing a picket line.  Not surprised reading your previous comments.
You'd better rein that imagination of yours - I'm a Trade union member most of my working life and am the Union rep where I work.
That is one of the reasons I am so annoyed at so called "Socialists" ( Paul Murphy upper class smoked salmon ones perhaps)attacking working people trying to do a job and earn a few €s to feed their families.
Foxc an Mikeh should go on the stage - Laurel and Hardy weren't in it compared to that double act. ;D
A union rep that supports water charges? Good man. A socialist like Gilmore.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 19, 2015, 10:07:00 PM
The great leader on now.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 19, 2015, 10:14:01 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 10:05:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:53:58 PM
. Idimagine you're the type that has no problem with workers crossing a picket line.  Not surprised reading your previous comments.
You'd better rein that imagination of yours - I'm a Trade union member most of my working life and am the Union rep where I work.
That is one of the reasons I am so annoyed at so called "Socialists" ( Paul Murphy upper class smoked salmon ones perhaps)attacking working people trying to do a job and earn a few €s to feed their families.
Foxc an Mikeh should go on the stage - Laurel and Hardy weren't in it compared to that double act. ;D
A union rep that supports water charges? Good man. A socialist like Gilmore.

A socialist like all socialists, indeed like all politicians.

If Higgins, Adams and Murphy were in power now, we would still have water charges, the only difference would be that FF/FG wouldn't be stopping traffic illegally over it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 10:22:18 PM
Whatever about Jorry the other 2 yahoos will always be in the wilderness again everything.
The Irish leftyloon extremists are against taxes of all sorts yet want the State to provide everything free.
Ya couldn't make it up. :o
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 10:27:32 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 10:05:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:53:58 PM
. Idimagine you're the type that has no problem with workers crossing a picket line.  Not surprised reading your previous comments.
You'd better rein that imagination of yours - I'm a Trade union member most of my working life and am the Union rep where I work.
That is one of the reasons I am so annoyed at so called "Socialists" ( Paul Murphy upper class smoked salmon ones perhaps)attacking working people trying to do a job and earn a few €s to feed their families.
Foxc an Mikeh should go on the stage - Laurel and Hardy weren't in it compared to that double act. ;D
A union rep that supports water charges? Good man. A socialist like Gilmore.
And I support income tax and PRSI and reluctantly accept the U S C because public services,social welfare,pensions etc have to be provided and paid for.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 19, 2015, 10:48:12 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 10:05:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:53:58 PM
. Idimagine you're the type that has no problem with workers crossing a picket line.  Not surprised reading your previous comments.
You'd better rein that imagination of yours - I'm a Trade union member most of my working life and am the Union rep where I work.
That is one of the reasons I am so annoyed at so called "Socialists" ( Paul Murphy upper class smoked salmon ones perhaps)attacking working people trying to do a job and earn a few €s to feed their families.
Foxc an Mikeh should go on the stage - Laurel and Hardy weren't in it compared to that double act. ;D
A union rep that supports water charges? Good man. A socialist like Gilmore.
At least he isn't advocating privatisation.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 20, 2015, 03:46:09 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 10:27:32 PM
And I support income tax and PRSI and reluctantly accept the U S C because public services,social welfare,pensions etc have to be provided and paid for.

seem to be forgetting about the debts of private bankers? Isn't that the biggest one that needs to be provided for? To be paid up under the guise of [insert name] tax. Better not default or ask for better terms or we'd look silly in front of Europe.

And you go along with it without question. Very scary.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 08:11:19 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 10:27:32 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 10:05:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:53:58 PM
. Idimagine you're the type that has no problem with workers crossing a picket line.  Not surprised reading your previous comments.
You'd better rein that imagination of yours - I'm a Trade union member most of my working life and am the Union rep where I work.
That is one of the reasons I am so annoyed at so called "Socialists" ( Paul Murphy upper class smoked salmon ones perhaps)attacking working people trying to do a job and earn a few €s to feed their families.
Foxc an Mikeh should go on the stage - Laurel and Hardy weren't in it compared to that double act. ;D
A union rep that supports water charges? Good man. A socialist like Gilmore.
And I support income tax and PRSI and reluctantly accept the U S C because public services,social welfare,pensions etc have to be provided and paid for.
You must be a public service union rep. Makes sense now. Fund the gravy train no matter what.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 08:14:40 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 19, 2015, 10:48:12 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 10:05:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2015, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2015, 06:53:58 PM
. Idimagine you're the type that has no problem with workers crossing a picket line.  Not surprised reading your previous comments.
You'd better rein that imagination of yours - I'm a Trade union member most of my working life and am the Union rep where I work.
That is one of the reasons I am so annoyed at so called "Socialists" ( Paul Murphy upper class smoked salmon ones perhaps)attacking working people trying to do a job and earn a few €s to feed their families.
Foxc an Mikeh should go on the stage - Laurel and Hardy weren't in it compared to that double act. ;D
A union rep that supports water charges? Good man. A socialist like Gilmore.
At least he isn't advocating privatisation.
He's like you. His answer to addressing the deficit is to bring in another massive quango.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 20, 2015, 09:24:23 AM
Mike, Fox, I don't know about yerselves, but I work in the private sector. Do ye really think that if it was privatised, Irish Water wouldn't become completely focussed on profit, as opposed to service? I'm sure it's not cost effective to provide water to some parts of the country. If this was privatised, you can be sure they'd be looking to cut costs in those areas.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 09:55:55 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 20, 2015, 09:24:23 AM
Mike, Fox, I don't know about yerselves, but I work in the private sector. Do ye really think that if it was privatised, Irish Water wouldn't become completely focussed on profit, as opposed to service? I'm sure it's not cost effective to provide water to some parts of the country. If this was privatised, you can be sure they'd be looking to cut costs in those areas.

Irish Water had no business plan until yesterday, no revenue forecasts, infrastructure timing, costs, funding. Yet they had announced how much bonuses were to be paid, staff tied in to contracts, fortunes spent on consultants, marketing and advertising expenses (in a monopoly situation). Meters installed yet are absolutely useless for a couple of years. Why press ahead with installation when investment is needed in other areas like where the boil notices are in place? It is an absolute shambles. Wait and see how much we will pay for water in a few years time. Think they plan to spend 900m a year but current revenue is 300m, could be wrong on that but there is a shortfall and once the fixed charge time lapses we're going to pay for this shambles. Where is the incentive to be efficient? They have too many staff.

The privatisation route has it's problems, ones being mentioned include them not providing a service in low profit areas. Others include hiking prices, turning water off for people who can't afford to pay their bill, focusing on profit rather than providing clean water. Private companies exist to make money, nature of the beast. That's why there's a need to keep control of the beast. I have never been involved in state contract negotiations but there are such things as service level agreements. Tie the provider into certain responsibilities. Penalties for unsafe water, open it up to competition to keep prices down, regulator to be able to intervene if prices get too high. Finally, it is possible for the state to gain by way of getting a share of the profits. Imagine if the govt of the time had included a term in the NTR contracts that they take a % of any future profits. Clowns sold it for a pittance and had to buy it back because it was making so much money.

I'm no fan of privatisation but think it's the lesser of two evils. What's happening at the minute is a farce. The head of Irish Water has been told by the govt not to do interviews. This is the man who oversaw the spending of 96m on the Poolbeg incinerator (third of it being on consultants) and not one bit of work has been done. Yet there is uproar on this topic about a few protestors.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 20, 2015, 10:13:20 AM
I agree it has been handled badly, very badly. I also agree, and have been banging this drum for a while, that it's a disgrace that we do not have visibility of how our money is spent across all departments, not just Irish Water.  At least then we could make an educated judgement about whether it's fair or not to need more money for any individual service, such as Irish Water.

However, where I disagree with the protesters is the notion that Water should be free. Water is free, it falls from the sky, but treating it, piping it, maintaining it and making it fit for consumption are not free. I also disagree with people intimidating politicians, presidents or people trying to just do their job, and I am deeply suspicious of the populist motives of the likes of Paul Murphy.

And as regards privatisation, I don't think that's what we need. Private companies, regardless of SLAs (I know about SLAs) will do everything to turn a profit, and maximise the profit. They will not enter an agreement unless they feel they can make a profit out of it, and they will do everything they can within contract to maximise their profit. That's the name of the game, as you said.

So as Water is a public service, I feel it should be provided by a public body. And I feel the public body, ALL public bodies, should be completely transparent in the case of income and expenditure, and some sort of government ombudsman should be allowed raise issues from the likes of Paul Murphy regarding the expenditure if he wants to query a line item etc.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 11:15:46 AM
I wouldn't be a fan of Murphy and would never vote for him however he was elected on the back of the Water Charges. He is doing what the people asked him to do unlike the majority of politicians. Their ideas for the economy are a bit far fetched but Joe Higgins does make some fair points on how the money could be raised. Just because they can talk nonsense some of the time doesn't mean they don't have good ideas. The outrage of the treatment of Burton and Higgins is ott. You had 2 prison officers getting stabbed the other day because there was no armed security for a known dangerous criminal yet you have armed guards at water protests? You had 3 cars and 8 guards arresting Murphy yet real crimes are ignored. If the protestors got jail time for contempt then fair enough, but why are people that have committed real crimes walking the street unhindered. No consistency.

There's a Fine Gael gathering in Castlebar at the weekend. A local toddler who has Downs and is in poor health has been refused a medical card multiple times. All of a sudden on the Thursday before the gathering the parents get a call to say they're getting a medical card even though their latest application was refused last week so no existing application was in place. Yet all we hear about is these "thugs" who are protesting about water charges whose greatest crime is to shout obscenities and cause a bit of civil unrest. What about the thugs who are refusing to help the sick, the poor and the homeless, causing the unnecessary deaths of people due to underfunding? The real thugs are those who are putting the interests of the wealthy ahead of the people that put them in their job and pay their wages.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 12:19:07 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 08:11:19 AM
You must be a public service union rep. Makes sense now. Fund the gravy train no matter what.
aye - tell the ambulance crew, the fireen, Gardai e.g. who've just cleaned up the pieces after a road crash that they're on a " gravy train".
Try and think for yourself and stop reading the Irish "Independent" and the "Irish" Daily Mail.
I see you're complaining about underfunding in Health - where do you think the funds will come from? The Northern Bank robbery?
Then you want a Private Company to look after water - look what happened when the public utility Eircom was privatised by HarneyMcCreevy - no proper broadband across most of the Country as there would be no profit in providing it to small towns and scattered rural communities.
Impossible to get Employers to set up anything in the Elphins, Frenchparks, Boyles and  Strokestowns as a result. There was a disused factory in Boyle recently which a foreign food preparation crowd were going to buy/lease to set up a 40 job operation.
Pulled out because it took half the day to do a bit of online business.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 20, 2015, 12:21:42 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 20, 2015, 10:13:20 AM
So as Water is a public service, I feel it should be provided by a public body. And I feel the public body, ALL public bodies, should be completely transparent in the case of income and expenditure, and some sort of government ombudsman should be allowed raise issues from the likes of Paul Murphy regarding the expenditure if he wants to query a line item etc.

Irish Water is a disgrace in the sense that even after the crisis, there was no progress in terms of transparency, accountability etc. But the response is equally idiotic, there has been no call for mechanisms to be set in place to ensure transparency and accountability, instead all we get are risible statements about already having paid for water and thugs intimidating people on the streets. A transparency commission of some sort which enforced principles a bit like data protection is needed, but politicians are as likely to propose this as a turkey vote for Christmas. Unfortunately, the  public don't seem to have the gumption to ensure that they do so.

Quote from: mikehuntI wouldn't be a fan of Murphy and would never vote for him however he was elected on the back of the Water Charges. He is doing what the people asked him to do unlike the majority of politicians

Fine Gael were elected to restore sanity to the public finances, part of which is not giving things away for nothing.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: johnneycool on February 20, 2015, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2015, 12:21:42 PM

Fine Gael were elected to restore sanity to the public finances, part of which is not giving things away for nothing.

Fine Gael were elected because they weren't Fianna Fail. I'd doubt it had anything to do with an policies they had.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 20, 2015, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2015, 12:21:42 PM

Fine Gael were elected to restore sanity to the public finances, part of which is not giving things away for nothing.

Fine Gael were elected because they weren't Fianna Fail. I'd doubt it had anything to do with an policies they had.
That had a lot to do withit alright.
They are now looking after their own with cuts to top rate of income tax
and including people up to €79,999 as middle income.
They know the pay nothing brigade and the thugs were never going to vote for them anyway.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 01:10:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 12:19:07 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 08:11:19 AM
You must be a public service union rep. Makes sense now. Fund the gravy train no matter what.
aye - tell the ambulance crew, the fireen, Gardai e.g. who've just cleaned up the pieces after a road crash that they're on a " gravy train".
Try and think for yourself and stop reading the Irish "Independent" and the "Irish" Daily Mail.
I see you're complaining about underfunding in Health - where do you think the funds will come from? The Northern Bank robbery?
Then you want a Private Company to look after water - look what happened when the public utility Eircom was privatised by HarneyMcCreevy - no proper broadband across most of the Country as there would be no profit in providing it to small towns and scattered rural communities.
Impossible to get Employers to set up anything in the Elphins, Frenchparks, Boyles and  Strokestowns as a result. There was a disused factory in Boyle recently which a foreign food preparation crowd were going to buy/lease to set up a 40 job operation.
Pulled out because it took half the day to do a bit of online business.

Are you employed in the public or private sector?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 01:17:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2015, 12:21:42 PM
Fine Gael were elected to restore sanity to the public finances, part of which is not giving things away for nothing.

"..............part of which is not giving things away for nothing".

Would giving guaranteed bonuses in a monopoly situation where no targets need to be met fall in to this category?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 20, 2015, 01:30:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 11:15:46 AM
I wouldn't be a fan of Murphy and would never vote for him however he was elected on the back of the Water Charges. He is doing what the people asked him to do unlike the majority of politicians. Their ideas for the economy are a bit far fetched but Joe Higgins does make some fair points on how the money could be raised. Just because they can talk nonsense some of the time doesn't mean they don't have good ideas. The outrage of the treatment of Burton and Higgins is ott. You had 2 prison officers getting stabbed the other day because there was no armed security for a known dangerous criminal yet you have armed guards at water protests? You had 3 cars and 8 guards arresting Murphy yet real crimes are ignored. If the protestors got jail time for contempt then fair enough, but why are people that have committed real crimes walking the street unhindered. No consistency.

There's a Fine Gael gathering in Castlebar at the weekend. A local toddler who has Downs and is in poor health has been refused a medical card multiple times. All of a sudden on the Thursday before the gathering the parents get a call to say they're getting a medical card even though their latest application was refused last week so no existing application was in place. Yet all we hear about is these "thugs" who are protesting about water charges whose greatest crime is to shout obscenities and cause a bit of civil unrest. What about the thugs who are refusing to help the sick, the poor and the homeless, causing the unnecessary deaths of people due to underfunding? The real thugs are those who are putting the interests of the wealthy ahead of the people that put them in their job and pay their wages.

The Troika insisted on water charges.

The Troika was pissed of when we abandoned (for the time being) metering water usage.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/troika-rebuked-by-government-over-water-charges-1.2029255 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/troika-rebuked-by-government-over-water-charges-1.2029255)

"The European Commission wants higher water charges to reduce consumption. But the Government recognises the need to give people a a period of certainty that the maximum charge they face will be affordable, while also giving households with meters the possibility of lower bills if they use less water," the source said.

The Government are caught between populist bullshitters and a no nonsense paymaster. And they are in turn screwing it up even further by trying to serve both, while giving the illusion of being in control.

We are a long way from being out of the mess. But because there is a GE coming the useless Government has to pretend everything is good and it is all under control, while the reckless opposition pretend it is all unnecessary and they can make the problems all go away, magically.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-mcwilliams/david-mcwilliams-dont-celebrate-yet-the-bailout-exit-is-far-from-mission-accomplished-29827544.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-mcwilliams/david-mcwilliams-dont-celebrate-yet-the-bailout-exit-is-far-from-mission-accomplished-29827544.html)

So concerned was the IMF about the unexploded landmine deep inside the banks that in its latest Fiscal Outlook, buried deep in the report, is a suggestion that a "capital levy" might be levied on wealth in the event that debt levels are not being brought down quick enough.

This is what happened in Cyprus where deposits over €100,000 were impounded to "bail in" the banks.

On page 49 of the report, the IMF makes this suggestion explicitly. These reports are never published without the people at the top agreeing to everything.


What this means is that Williams believes the IMF can take any money on deposit in banks in Ireland, if it feels the need. Remember the man in Cyprus that borrowed money for his child college fees? The money went into his account one day, and was seized the next. He still owes the money that he never got to use and his child's college fees went unpaid. That is what a 'wealth levy' does. It takes redundancy money, pension payouts, inheritances and savings to pay off mortgages/college fees etc and doesn't discriminate.

Politics in this country is truly sickening. Every last one of them are greedy self-serving spoofers.

MikeHunt is right that the people elected Paul Murphy to stop water charges. But he never gave them the full story. He led them to believe water charges are optional. He is a perfect example of what our politics is like nowadays.

MikeHunt adds to the cynicism by exploiting the story of a Down's Syndrome child, for political reasons. Like I said, politics here is about as low and as sickening as it can get.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 01:54:09 PM
Exatcly how am I exploiting the story of a downs child?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 20, 2015, 02:40:59 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 01:54:09 PM
Exatcly how am I exploiting the story of a downs child?

In one paragraph you juxtapose a FG gathering, a Down's Syndrome child who didn't, then did get a medical card and finally, the water charges protestors on the streets. You link the former two to excuse the latter. You didn't even pretend to show any concern, which you might had done by leaving the story at FG and the child, who is obviously an innocent in all of this.

Instead you immediately hold up the water charges thugs as the victims. Here is one such victim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxQCi3-wsk&spfreload=10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxQCi3-wsk&spfreload=10)

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 20, 2015, 02:53:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 01:30:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 11:15:46 AM
I wouldn't be a fan of Murphy and would never vote for him however he was elected on the back of the Water Charges. He is doing what the people asked him to do unlike the majority of politicians. Their ideas for the economy are a bit far fetched but Joe Higgins does make some fair points on how the money could be raised. Just because they can talk nonsense some of the time doesn't mean they don't have good ideas. The outrage of the treatment of Burton and Higgins is ott. You had 2 prison officers getting stabbed the other day because there was no armed security for a known dangerous criminal yet you have armed guards at water protests? You had 3 cars and 8 guards arresting Murphy yet real crimes are ignored. If the protestors got jail time for contempt then fair enough, but why are people that have committed real crimes walking the street unhindered. No consistency.

There's a Fine Gael gathering in Castlebar at the weekend. A local toddler who has Downs and is in poor health has been refused a medical card multiple times. All of a sudden on the Thursday before the gathering the parents get a call to say they're getting a medical card even though their latest application was refused last week so no existing application was in place. Yet all we hear about is these "thugs" who are protesting about water charges whose greatest crime is to shout obscenities and cause a bit of civil unrest. What about the thugs who are refusing to help the sick, the poor and the homeless, causing the unnecessary deaths of people due to underfunding? The real thugs are those who are putting the interests of the wealthy ahead of the people that put them in their job and pay their wages.

The Troika insisted on water charges.

The Troika was pissed of when we abandoned (for the time being) metering water usage.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/troika-rebuked-by-government-over-water-charges-1.2029255 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/troika-rebuked-by-government-over-water-charges-1.2029255)

"The European Commission wants higher water charges to reduce consumption. But the Government recognises the need to give people a a period of certainty that the maximum charge they face will be affordable, while also giving households with meters the possibility of lower bills if they use less water," the source said.

The Government are caught between populist bullshitters and a no nonsense paymaster. And they are in turn screwing it up even further by trying to serve both, while giving the illusion of being in control.

We are a long way from being out of the mess. But because there is a GE coming the useless Government has to pretend everything is good and it is all under control, while the reckless opposition pretend it is all unnecessary and they can make the problems all go away, magically.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-mcwilliams/david-mcwilliams-dont-celebrate-yet-the-bailout-exit-is-far-from-mission-accomplished-29827544.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-mcwilliams/david-mcwilliams-dont-celebrate-yet-the-bailout-exit-is-far-from-mission-accomplished-29827544.html)

So concerned was the IMF about the unexploded landmine deep inside the banks that in its latest Fiscal Outlook, buried deep in the report, is a suggestion that a "capital levy" might be levied on wealth in the event that debt levels are not being brought down quick enough.

This is what happened in Cyprus where deposits over €100,000 were impounded to "bail in" the banks.

On page 49 of the report, the IMF makes this suggestion explicitly. These reports are never published without the people at the top agreeing to everything.


What this means is that Williams believes the IMF can take any money on deposit in banks in Ireland, if it feels the need. Remember the man in Cyprus that borrowed money for his child college fees? The money went into his account one day, and was seized the next. He still owes the money that he never got to use and his child's college fees went unpaid. That is what a 'wealth levy' does. It takes redundancy money, pension payouts, inheritances and savings to pay off mortgages/college fees etc and doesn't discriminate.

Politics in this country is truly sickening. Every last one of them are greedy self-serving spoofers.

MikeHunt is right that the people elected Paul Murphy to stop water charges. But he never gave them the full story. He led them to believe water charges are optional. He is a perfect example of what our politics is like nowadays.

MikeHunt adds to the cynicism by exploiting the story of a Down's Syndrome child, for political reasons. Like I said, politics here is about as low and as sickening as it can get.
Muppet
the troika were also supposed to have insisted on the legal services bill and reform, but since have back tracked with department officials saying that there was no such imposition, but merely a recommendation to look at many things such as legal health etc etc

I think water charges are possibly in the same boat - though am not 100% sure.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 03:06:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 02:40:59 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 01:54:09 PM
Exatcly how am I exploiting the story of a downs child?

In one paragraph you juxtapose a FG gathering, a Down's Syndrome child who didn't, then did get a medical card and finally, the water charges protestors on the streets. You link the former two to excuse the latter. You didn't even pretend to show any concern, which you might had done by leaving the story at FG and the child, who is obviously an innocent in all of this.

Instead you immediately hold up the water charges thugs as the victims. Here is one such victim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxQCi3-wsk&spfreload=10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxQCi3-wsk&spfreload=10)
Only reason the child got the card was because fg were in town. That was my point. You want to get all holier than though then go ahead.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 20, 2015, 03:14:39 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 03:06:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 02:40:59 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 01:54:09 PM
Exatcly how am I exploiting the story of a downs child?

In one paragraph you juxtapose a FG gathering, a Down's Syndrome child who didn't, then did get a medical card and finally, the water charges protestors on the streets. You link the former two to excuse the latter. You didn't even pretend to show any concern, which you might had done by leaving the story at FG and the child, who is obviously an innocent in all of this.

Instead you immediately hold up the water charges thugs as the victims. Here is one such victim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxQCi3-wsk&spfreload=10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxQCi3-wsk&spfreload=10)
Only reason the child got the card was because fg were in town. That was my point. You want to get all holier than though then go ahead.

It was half of your point: FG bad. The other half was: protestors good.

Sandwiched in between was an unfortunate child you wanted to use to prove the above.

The knobs on the street care about as little for that child as the Government do, or you do for that matter. As for the 'holier than thou' comment, that just shows how cynical you really are. Most people in Ireland would be genuinely annoyed about the treatment of that child, but you don't give a f**k. To you he is a political stick to beat someone. You and people like you would forget about that child the millisecond you took power.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 20, 2015, 03:20:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 03:14:39 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 03:06:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 02:40:59 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 01:54:09 PM
Exatcly how am I exploiting the story of a downs child?

In one paragraph you juxtapose a FG gathering, a Down's Syndrome child who didn't, then did get a medical card and finally, the water charges protestors on the streets. You link the former two to excuse the latter. You didn't even pretend to show any concern, which you might had done by leaving the story at FG and the child, who is obviously an innocent in all of this.

Instead you immediately hold up the water charges thugs as the victims. Here is one such victim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxQCi3-wsk&spfreload=10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxQCi3-wsk&spfreload=10)
Only reason the child got the card was because fg were in town. That was my point. You want to get all holier than though then go ahead.

It was half of your point: FG bad. The other half was: protestors good.

Sandwiched in between was an unfortunate child you wanted to use to prove the above.

The knobs on the street care about as little for that child as the Government do, or you do for that matter. As for the 'holier than thou' comment, that just shows how cynical you really are. Most people in Ireland would be genuinely annoyed about the treatment of that child, but you don't give a f**k. To you he is a political stick to beat someone. You and people like you would forget about that child the millisecond you took power.

People refusing to pay for things can only lead to more children not getting medical cards.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 03:33:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 03:14:39 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 03:06:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 02:40:59 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 01:54:09 PM
Exatcly how am I exploiting the story of a downs child?

In one paragraph you juxtapose a FG gathering, a Down's Syndrome child who didn't, then did get a medical card and finally, the water charges protestors on the streets. You link the former two to excuse the latter. You didn't even pretend to show any concern, which you might had done by leaving the story at FG and the child, who is obviously an innocent in all of this.

Instead you immediately hold up the water charges thugs as the victims. Here is one such victim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxQCi3-wsk&spfreload=10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxQCi3-wsk&spfreload=10)
Only reason the child got the card was because fg were in town. That was my point. You want to get all holier than though then go ahead.

It was half of your point: FG bad. The other half was: protestors good.

Sandwiched in between was an unfortunate child you wanted to use to prove the above.

The knobs on the street care about as little for that child as the Government do, or you do for that matter. As for the 'holier than thou' comment, that just shows how cynical you really are. Most people in Ireland would be genuinely annoyed about the treatment of that child, but you don't give a f**k. To you he is a political stick to beat someone. You and people like you would forget about that child the millisecond you took power.

love the way u try and twist things to make it look like you're morally superior to everyone else.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 20, 2015, 03:48:13 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 03:33:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 03:14:39 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 03:06:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 02:40:59 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 01:54:09 PM
Exatcly how am I exploiting the story of a downs child?

In one paragraph you juxtapose a FG gathering, a Down's Syndrome child who didn't, then did get a medical card and finally, the water charges protestors on the streets. You link the former two to excuse the latter. You didn't even pretend to show any concern, which you might had done by leaving the story at FG and the child, who is obviously an innocent in all of this.

Instead you immediately hold up the water charges thugs as the victims. Here is one such victim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxQCi3-wsk&spfreload=10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxQCi3-wsk&spfreload=10)
Only reason the child got the card was because fg were in town. That was my point. You want to get all holier than though then go ahead.

It was half of your point: FG bad. The other half was: protestors good.

Sandwiched in between was an unfortunate child you wanted to use to prove the above.

The knobs on the street care about as little for that child as the Government do, or you do for that matter. As for the 'holier than thou' comment, that just shows how cynical you really are. Most people in Ireland would be genuinely annoyed about the treatment of that child, but you don't give a f**k. To you he is a political stick to beat someone. You and people like you would forget about that child the millisecond you took power.

love the way u try and twist things to make it look like you're morally superior to everyone else.

Not everyone else. Far from it.

Just people who use sick children to defend louts.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 04:51:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 03:48:13 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 03:33:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 03:14:39 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 03:06:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 02:40:59 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 01:54:09 PM
Exatcly how am I exploiting the story of a downs child?

In one paragraph you juxtapose a FG gathering, a Down's Syndrome child who didn't, then did get a medical card and finally, the water charges protestors on the streets. You link the former two to excuse the latter. You didn't even pretend to show any concern, which you might had done by leaving the story at FG and the child, who is obviously an innocent in all of this.

Instead you immediately hold up the water charges thugs as the victims. Here is one such victim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxQCi3-wsk&spfreload=10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxQCi3-wsk&spfreload=10)
Only reason the child got the card was because fg were in town. That was my point. You want to get all holier than though then go ahead.

It was half of your point: FG bad. The other half was: protestors good.

Sandwiched in between was an unfortunate child you wanted to use to prove the above.

The knobs on the street care about as little for that child as the Government do, or you do for that matter. As for the 'holier than thou' comment, that just shows how cynical you really are. Most people in Ireland would be genuinely annoyed about the treatment of that child, but you don't give a f**k. To you he is a political stick to beat someone. You and people like you would forget about that child the millisecond you took power.

love the way u try and twist things to make it look like you're morally superior to everyone else.

Not everyone else. Far from it.

Just people who use sick children to defend louts.

The keyboard warrior force is strong with this one!!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 20, 2015, 05:21:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 03:14:39 PM

The knobs on the street care about as little for that child as the Government do

This is where you lost the argument.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 05:42:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 20, 2015, 05:21:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 03:14:39 PM

The knobs on the street care about as little for that child as the Government do

This is where you lost the argument.
He lost nothing there - just telling the truth.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 20, 2015, 06:19:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 05:42:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 20, 2015, 05:21:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 03:14:39 PM

The knobs on the street care about as little for that child as the Government do

This is where you lost the argument.
He lost nothing there - just telling the truth.

Are you his spokeswoman?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 06:22:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 05:42:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 20, 2015, 05:21:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 03:14:39 PM

The knobs on the street care about as little for that child as the Government do

This is where you lost the argument.
He lost nothing there - just telling the truth.
Well over a hundred thousand "knobs" marched against Water Charges. To say none of them give a toss about sick children is a bit of a generalisation.  There's bound to have been one.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 06:41:46 PM
Ye're well down on that figure now bucks. Only a few extremists blocking traffic now.
By the way at least 900,000 marched against PAYE in 1979. It's still there.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 06:44:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 06:41:46 PM
Ye're well down on that figure now bucks. Only a few extremists blocking traffic now.
By the way at least 900,000 marched against PAYE in 1979. It's still there.

You have a fetish for taxes?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 20, 2015, 06:49:07 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 06:22:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 05:42:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 20, 2015, 05:21:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 03:14:39 PM

The knobs on the street care about as little for that child as the Government do

This is where you lost the argument.
He lost nothing there - just telling the truth.
Well over a hundred thousand "knobs" marched against Water Charges. To say none of them give a toss about sick children is a bit of a generalisation.  There's bound to have been one.
The government do a fantastic job to make sure sick children are looked after. Not to mention the fabulous treatment nurses get from the HSE.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 20, 2015, 06:53:09 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 06:44:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 06:41:46 PM
Ye're well down on that figure now bucks. Only a few extremists blocking traffic now.
By the way at least 900,000 marched against PAYE in 1979. It's still there.

You have a fetish for taxes?

It's a throwback to the "my grandfather voted Fine Gael so I do too" era....
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 07:17:58 PM
Both my grandfathers were active anti Treatyites :)
How will not paying water charges provide more funds for the HSE?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 20, 2015, 07:33:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 07:17:58 PM
Both my grandfathers were active anti Treatyites :)

They did a fine job.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 08:11:06 PM
They were fighting against 2 Governments and a majority of the population of the 26 Cos.after all.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 08:47:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 08:11:06 PM
They were fighting against 2 Governments and a majority of the population of the 26 Cos.after all.

Sounds like they'd be the type who would oppose water charges. Pity they didn't shake some sense in to you.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 20, 2015, 09:12:48 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 11:15:46 AM
I wouldn't be a fan of Murphy and would never vote for him however he was elected on the back of the Water Charges. He is doing what the people asked him to do unlike the majority of politicians. Their ideas for the economy are a bit far fetched but Joe Higgins does make some fair points on how the money could be raised. Just because they can talk nonsense some of the time doesn't mean they don't have good ideas. The outrage of the treatment of Burton and Higgins is ott. You had 2 prison officers getting stabbed the other day because there was no armed security for a known dangerous criminal yet you have armed guards at water protests? You had 3 cars and 8 guards arresting Murphy yet real crimes are ignored. If the protestors got jail time for contempt then fair enough, but why are people that have committed real crimes walking the street unhindered. No consistency.

There's a Fine Gael gathering in Castlebar at the weekend. A local toddler who has Downs and is in poor health has been refused a medical card multiple times. All of a sudden on the Thursday before the gathering the parents get a call to say they're getting a medical card even though their latest application was refused last week so no existing application was in place. Yet all we hear about is these "thugs" who are protesting about water charges whose greatest crime is to shout obscenities and cause a bit of civil unrest. What about the thugs who are refusing to help the sick, the poor and the homeless, causing the unnecessary deaths of people due to underfunding? The real thugs are those who are putting the interests of the wealthy ahead of the people that put them in their job and pay their wages.

You weren't talking about the decent people among the 100,000 marchers you are now pretending to hide behind.

You made the link between FG and the sick child and it was you who referred to the 'thugs'. You even qualified who you meant, referring to those who shout obscenities and cause civil disobedience. Holding Burton for 2 hours is ok. Abusing the President is absolutely ok when you can rationalise it all away, simply because you are pissed off about something. Rush hour traffic is bad enough in Dublin without having 200 scumbags making it worse, illegally. But that is all ok too, because Mike is angry about water tax.

The only good thing about the behaviour of the real thugs is that the well intentioned people who marched initially will come to realise the type of people behind these protests. This happens with all of these type of protests. Joe Higgins has organised property tax and bin tax campaigns in the past and it is always the same outcome: He gets elected and nothing else matters.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 10:13:08 PM
Mike and Fox must have devised this lots Tax policy www.cppireland.org  ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 20, 2015, 10:15:26 PM
Lout leader on TV now.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 10:38:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2015, 10:15:26 PM
Lout leader on TV now.
That was last night with Miriam.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 10:43:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2015, 09:12:48 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 11:15:46 AM
I wouldn't be a fan of Murphy and would never vote for him however he was elected on the back of the Water Charges. He is doing what the people asked him to do unlike the majority of politicians. Their ideas for the economy are a bit far fetched but Joe Higgins does make some fair points on how the money could be raised. Just because they can talk nonsense some of the time doesn't mean they don't have good ideas. The outrage of the treatment of Burton and Higgins is ott. You had 2 prison officers getting stabbed the other day because there was no armed security for a known dangerous criminal yet you have armed guards at water protests? You had 3 cars and 8 guards arresting Murphy yet real crimes are ignored. If the protestors got jail time for contempt then fair enough, but why are people that have committed real crimes walking the street unhindered. No consistency.

There's a Fine Gael gathering in Castlebar at the weekend. A local toddler who has Downs and is in poor health has been refused a medical card multiple times. All of a sudden on the Thursday before the gathering the parents get a call to say they're getting a medical card even though their latest application was refused last week so no existing application was in place. Yet all we hear about is these "thugs" who are protesting about water charges whose greatest crime is to shout obscenities and cause a bit of civil unrest. What about the thugs who are refusing to help the sick, the poor and the homeless, causing the unnecessary deaths of people due to underfunding? The real thugs are those who are putting the interests of the wealthy ahead of the people that put them in their job and pay their wages.

You weren't talking about the decent people among the 100,000 marchers you are now pretending to hide behind.

You made the link between FG and the sick child and it was you who referred to the 'thugs'. You even qualified who you meant, referring to those who shout obscenities and cause civil disobedience. Holding Burton for 2 hours is ok. Abusing the President is absolutely ok when you can rationalise it all away, simply because you are pissed off about something. Rush hour traffic is bad enough in Dublin without having 200 scumbags making it worse, illegally. But that is all ok too, because Mike is angry about water tax.

The only good thing about the behaviour of the real thugs is that the well intentioned people who marched initially will come to realise the type of people behind these protests. This happens with all of these type of protests. Joe Higgins has organised property tax and bin tax campaigns in the past and it is always the same outcome: He gets elected and nothing else matters.

The mighty warrior smites him down with great vengeance and furious anger.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 21, 2015, 04:14:16 PM
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/paul-murphy-calls-for-anti-water-charge-protesters-to-breach-court-injunction-31007900.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/paul-murphy-calls-for-anti-water-charge-protesters-to-breach-court-injunction-31007900.html)

TD Paul Murphy has called for anti-water charge campaigners to breach a court ordered injunction preventing them from interfering with the installation of water meters.

Mr Murphy said he would breach such an injunction himself, and encouraged others to do the same.

Speaking to Newstalk, he said:

"There was an injunction given to a private company, to prevent people going within 20 metres of water meters.

"There was no finding of criminal acts by the judge.

"The court should never have given such an order. People have an absolute right to protest, and to protest peacefully."

"There should now be widespread defiance of any injunction relating to water meter installation, People cannot be intimidated from protesting.

"I would be happy to breach such an injunction, I would encourage others to breach such an injunction.

"How many people are they willing to jail to get these water meters in?"

Mr Murphy made his comments after several anti-water charge protesters were jailed yesterday for breaching a court order to stay 20 metres away from water meter installations.

The protesters can purge their contempt at any time, by agreeing to obey the court order.



Murphy should be locked up for contempt merely for encouraging such anarchy. We don't always agree every court decision but there are processes to deal with that. Calling for anarchy is bordering on seditious.

Mike has abandoned his position and retreated to satire, but Vous n'êtes pas Charlie!.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 07:25:22 PM
(http://cdn.thejournal.ie/embeds/twitter/f6db34b77a3072e3b0a7d066df3127e7.png)

Fine Gael will go to great lengths to stop anyone asking Enda a question at their 2015 rally.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 07:33:14 PM
Time for a FG soundbytes competation to find the most nauseating comment/slogan of the weekend....

The slogan 'Securing the Recovery' is a good start. For whom you have to wonder. Germany is my guess.

From RTE - "Minister for Finance Michael Noonan said Ireland stood at a fork in the road with one road delivering full employment in less than four years and the other uncertainty"

If enough people leave the country full employment is a possibility. So voting against FG will lead to uncertainty...well there's quite a few that are certain to be added to poverty stats if FG stay in office.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 21, 2015, 07:55:10 PM
Tell us Foxy and Mike does you support of 'the right to protest' extend to this man: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-plans-loyalist-dublin-march-during-february-1.2092936 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-plans-loyalist-dublin-march-during-february-1.2092936)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 21, 2015, 08:01:14 PM
Now 2 are on hunger strike and threatening a liquid strike on Monday:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/jailed-anti-water-protesters-go-on-hunger-strike-crowd-hears-1.2112716 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/jailed-anti-water-protesters-go-on-hunger-strike-crowd-hears-1.2112716)

Audrey Clancy of Dublin Says No, addressing up to 10,000 protesters outside Mountjoy, said Derek Byrne from Donaghemede and Paul Moore from Kilbarrack, had been refusing food since Friday.

The High Court on Thursday imposed a sentence of 28 days for contempt of a court order on Byrne as well as on Bernie Hughes from Finglas and Michael Batty from Raheny, while 56-day sentences were imposed on Moore and on Damien O'Neill from Coolock.

"Derek Byrne and Pauly Moore have stopped eating since yesterday," said Ms Clancy. "And Derek Byrne has said if he's not released by Monday he will stop drinking, he will take no fluid intake. These people are putting their lives on the line. Support them. Stop this madness. Get these blood-sucking leaches out of power now. The power of the people is greater than the people in power. Stand up to them, " she said to cheers and applause.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 08:03:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 07:55:10 PM
Tell us Foxy and Mike does you support of 'the right to protest' extend to this man: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-plans-loyalist-dublin-march-during-february-1.2092936 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-plans-loyalist-dublin-march-during-february-1.2092936)

Still not sure why you pulled out this old article when Feb is nearly over...point scoring mupet?

Let him march. Funnily enough the police will try uphold his rights to do so.
If they didn't guarantee his rights to do so he wouldn't march in the first place.


Any comment on Fine Gael weekend or are you too busy kissing the TV when Enda is on?
inspiring stuff.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 21, 2015, 08:07:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 08:03:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 07:55:10 PM
Tell us Foxy and Mike does you support of 'the right to protest' extend to this man: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-plans-loyalist-dublin-march-during-february-1.2092936 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-plans-loyalist-dublin-march-during-february-1.2092936)

Let him march. Funnily enough the police will try uphold his rights to do so.
If they didn't guarantee his rights to do so he wouldn't march in the first place.


Any comment on Fine Gael weekend or are you too busy kissing the TV when Enda is on?
inspiring stuff.


So Frazer wouldn't take to the streets of Dublin without permission. What a novel idea.

As for the Ard Fheis, I wouldn't even know it was on if you weren't publicising it so much. I wouldn't watch anyone's Ard Fheis if I was paid a fortune. Party gombeens cheering other party gombeens every slobbering syllable. Nope, I'll leave that to you.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 09:11:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 08:07:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 08:03:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 07:55:10 PM
Tell us Foxy and Mike does you support of 'the right to protest' extend to this man: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-plans-loyalist-dublin-march-during-february-1.2092936 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-plans-loyalist-dublin-march-during-february-1.2092936)

Let him march. Funnily enough the police will try uphold his rights to do so.
If they didn't guarantee his rights to do so he wouldn't march in the first place.


Any comment on Fine Gael weekend or are you too busy kissing the TV when Enda is on?
inspiring stuff.


So Frazer wouldn't take to the streets of Dublin without permission. What a novel idea.

As for the Ard Fheis, I wouldn't even know it was on if you weren't publicising it so much. I wouldn't watch anyone's Ard Fheis if I was paid a fortune. Party gombeens cheering other party gombeens every slobbering syllable. Nope, I'll leave that to you.

You missed my point. he could take to the streets without permission if he likes. Let him see how far he gets down the road.

sorry if I took your attention away from your glorious leaders speech......Didn't know it was on indeed..... Same ol sneaky fine gaelers...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mike Sheehy on February 21, 2015, 09:45:42 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 06:44:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 06:41:46 PM
Ye're well down on that figure now bucks. Only a few extremists blocking traffic now.
By the way at least 900,000 marched against PAYE in 1979. It's still there.

You have a fetish for taxes?

I can see your point when you criticize Irish water as yet another semi-state quango but I find your support for these militant protesters puzzling. Surely you realize that their reasons for opposing Irish water are ideologically the polar opposite of your reasons for opposing it ? If you want to understand what I mean just bring your proposal to privatize Irish water to the protesters and see what their response will be. You will probably be lynched.

One of the most disturbing things about politics today is the seeming convergence of the far left and the far right.  It is getting very bizarre.     
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 21, 2015, 10:11:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 09:11:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 08:07:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 08:03:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 07:55:10 PM
Tell us Foxy and Mike does you support of 'the right to protest' extend to this man: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-plans-loyalist-dublin-march-during-february-1.2092936 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-plans-loyalist-dublin-march-during-february-1.2092936)

Let him march. Funnily enough the police will try uphold his rights to do so.
If they didn't guarantee his rights to do so he wouldn't march in the first place.


Any comment on Fine Gael weekend or are you too busy kissing the TV when Enda is on?
inspiring stuff.


So Frazer wouldn't take to the streets of Dublin without permission. What a novel idea.

As for the Ard Fheis, I wouldn't even know it was on if you weren't publicising it so much. I wouldn't watch anyone's Ard Fheis if I was paid a fortune. Party gombeens cheering other party gombeens every slobbering syllable. Nope, I'll leave that to you.

You missed my point. he could take to the streets without permission if he likes. Let him see how far he gets down the road.

You proved my point. Evidently you would support those who would attack him and his right to protest.
Quote
sorry if I took your attention away from your glorious leaders speech......Didn't know it was on indeed..... Same ol sneaky fine gaelers...

Why do you keep talking about the Ard Fheis? Only the most loyal of party lickspittles watch such tedious, diabolically acted, poorly scripted, pseudo-religious, brainless tripe for more than a minute. Oh and of course lickspittles from other parties.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 21, 2015, 11:09:13 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 21, 2015, 09:45:42 PM


One of the most disturbing things about politics today is the seeming convergence of the far left and the far right.  It is getting very bizarre.   

Bit like the Stalin/Hitler pact.
The decent majority are the Poles now.
Hope those extremists in jail are left to their hunger and thirst strike and totally ignored.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 11:13:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 10:11:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 09:11:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 08:07:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 08:03:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 07:55:10 PM
Tell us Foxy and Mike does you support of 'the right to protest' extend to this man: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-plans-loyalist-dublin-march-during-february-1.2092936 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-plans-loyalist-dublin-march-during-february-1.2092936)

Let him march. Funnily enough the police will try uphold his rights to do so.
If they didn't guarantee his rights to do so he wouldn't march in the first place.


Any comment on Fine Gael weekend or are you too busy kissing the TV when Enda is on?
inspiring stuff.


So Frazer wouldn't take to the streets of Dublin without permission. What a novel idea.

As for the Ard Fheis, I wouldn't even know it was on if you weren't publicising it so much. I wouldn't watch anyone's Ard Fheis if I was paid a fortune. Party gombeens cheering other party gombeens every slobbering syllable. Nope, I'll leave that to you.

You missed my point. he could take to the streets without permission if he likes. Let him see how far he gets down the road.

You proved my point. Evidently you would support those who would attack him and his right to protest.
Quote
sorry if I took your attention away from your glorious leaders speech......Didn't know it was on indeed..... Same ol sneaky fine gaelers...

Why do you keep talking about the Ard Fheis? Only the most loyal of party lickspittles watch such tedious, diabolically acted, poorly scripted, pseudo-religious, brainless tripe for more than a minute. Oh and of course lickspittles from other parties.

Oh come on...Enda is your party leader. I thought you'd be picking up tips....
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 21, 2015, 11:30:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 11:13:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 10:11:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 09:11:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 08:07:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 08:03:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 07:55:10 PM
Tell us Foxy and Mike does you support of 'the right to protest' extend to this man: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-plans-loyalist-dublin-march-during-february-1.2092936 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-plans-loyalist-dublin-march-during-february-1.2092936)

Let him march. Funnily enough the police will try uphold his rights to do so.
If they didn't guarantee his rights to do so he wouldn't march in the first place.


Any comment on Fine Gael weekend or are you too busy kissing the TV when Enda is on?
inspiring stuff.


So Frazer wouldn't take to the streets of Dublin without permission. What a novel idea.

As for the Ard Fheis, I wouldn't even know it was on if you weren't publicising it so much. I wouldn't watch anyone's Ard Fheis if I was paid a fortune. Party gombeens cheering other party gombeens every slobbering syllable. Nope, I'll leave that to you.

You missed my point. he could take to the streets without permission if he likes. Let him see how far he gets down the road.

You proved my point. Evidently you would support those who would attack him and his right to protest.
Quote
sorry if I took your attention away from your glorious leaders speech......Didn't know it was on indeed..... Same ol sneaky fine gaelers...

Why do you keep talking about the Ard Fheis? Only the most loyal of party lickspittles watch such tedious, diabolically acted, poorly scripted, pseudo-religious, brainless tripe for more than a minute. Oh and of course lickspittles from other parties.

Oh come on...Enda is your party leader. I thought you'd be picking up tips....

You are still talking of 'party' and 'leader'.

Why not turn off the tv and open your mind to the great big world out there?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2015, 02:38:24 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 11:30:22 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 11:13:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 10:11:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 09:11:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 08:07:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 21, 2015, 08:03:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 07:55:10 PM
Tell us Foxy and Mike does you support of 'the right to protest' extend to this man: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-plans-loyalist-dublin-march-during-february-1.2092936 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-plans-loyalist-dublin-march-during-february-1.2092936)

Let him march. Funnily enough the police will try uphold his rights to do so.
If they didn't guarantee his rights to do so he wouldn't march in the first place.


Any comment on Fine Gael weekend or are you too busy kissing the TV when Enda is on?
inspiring stuff.


So Frazer wouldn't take to the streets of Dublin without permission. What a novel idea.

As for the Ard Fheis, I wouldn't even know it was on if you weren't publicising it so much. I wouldn't watch anyone's Ard Fheis if I was paid a fortune. Party gombeens cheering other party gombeens every slobbering syllable. Nope, I'll leave that to you.

You missed my point. he could take to the streets without permission if he likes. Let him see how far he gets down the road.

You proved my point. Evidently you would support those who would attack him and his right to protest.
Quote
sorry if I took your attention away from your glorious leaders speech......Didn't know it was on indeed..... Same ol sneaky fine gaelers...

Why do you keep talking about the Ard Fheis? Only the most loyal of party lickspittles watch such tedious, diabolically acted, poorly scripted, pseudo-religious, brainless tripe for more than a minute. Oh and of course lickspittles from other parties.

Oh come on...Enda is your party leader. I thought you'd be picking up tips....

You are still talking of 'party' and 'leader'.

Why not turn off the tv and open your mind to the great big world out there?
In fairness muppet
Inda did say .....
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2015, 02:40:50 AM
Are you lads inda/fine Gael/blueshirts lackeys or are you progressive individuals ??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 22, 2015, 04:09:26 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2015, 02:40:50 AM
Are you lads inda/fine Gael/blueshirts lackeys or are you progressive individuals ??

As you can tell I'm a dyed in the wool west brit blueshirt LOL! Just like my pal Muppet.
Come on Enda you genius....
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 22, 2015, 04:17:35 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2015, 11:30:22 PM

Why not turn off the tv and open your mind to the great big world out there?

An open mind in Ireland isn't tolerated anymore. Especially if you pay attention to the spin the media give you.

One of us...one of us.....
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 22, 2015, 05:49:15 AM
Another gem from the conference, this time spoken by Varadkar - "a true patriot like our Taoiseach"

pass the sick bag.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 22, 2015, 10:01:12 AM
You seem to be the only one here who watched the FG thingy.
You seem obsessed with it all.
Everyone, except you and your possible alter ego mikehunt, knows Political party love ins
are painful sickening arse licking extravaganzas.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 22, 2015, 11:22:32 AM
Some of the lads here obviously on the sauce all night celebration with FG in Castlebar.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 22, 2015, 03:47:27 PM
I watched the FG Ard-Fheis... :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-\

I nearly choked when he rolled out the 5 point plan again. ::) >:(
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 22, 2015, 07:57:13 PM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 21, 2015, 09:45:42 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 06:44:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2015, 06:41:46 PM
Ye're well down on that figure now bucks. Only a few extremists blocking traffic now.
By the way at least 900,000 marched against PAYE in 1979. It's still there.

You have a fetish for taxes?

I can see your point when you criticize Irish water as yet another semi-state quango but I find your support for these militant protesters puzzling. Surely you realize that their reasons for opposing Irish water are ideologically the polar opposite of your reasons for opposing it ? If you want to understand what I mean just bring your proposal to privatize Irish water to the protesters and see what their response will be. You will probably be lynched.

One of the most disturbing things about politics today is the seeming convergence of the far left and the far right.  It is getting very bizarre.   
You are prob correct about the demonstrators disagreeing with privatization of water
But I'm not sure if that would be the way.
Semi state which you'd hope would allow a gov to regulate and control it if necessary

I'm not in favour of a quango and the civil service personnel and structure/pay/bonuses etc

But a proper structure, fair charges etc should be introduced AFTER the overhaul of public sector, quangos and other taxation that are not paying for the started intentions

If this leaves a shortfall of tax , then raise it by going after those avoiding it and while this affects myself, raise the tax rates of those that can afford it.

Then water charges will be correct - while some still might not be happy with water charges, most will see they are paying less and are no worse off .
IMO
But this is too much for the gov and politicians to craft. Plus public sector/civil service would never have it!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 02:06:51 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 22, 2015, 03:47:27 PM
I watched the FG Ard-Fheis... :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-\

I nearly choked when he rolled out the 5 point plan again. ::) >:(

Telling the same lies again in the hope that people will vote them back in. Everything in that speech is geared towards re-election of their party. As was pointed out by Rabbitte lies are what you tell at election time. Enda has had plenty of time to remediate a number of the items he now promises to fix.
The 5 point plan being regurgitated is particularly galling considering they did not achieve it.
Are we still talking about broadband??
The era of new taxes and charges are over. That's because apart from Oxygen there is nothing left to tax?

I mean you could pick holes in the speech all you want but the short of it is that they just want to stay on the gravy train. Scaremongering about not voting them back is pretty cheap. It's up to the others to show there is an alternative. To be fair a fukking rotting cabbage would do a better job than the ministers and teeshock.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on February 23, 2015, 03:44:22 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 02:06:51 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 22, 2015, 03:47:27 PM
I watched the FG Ard-Fheis... :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-\

I nearly choked when he rolled out the 5 point plan again. ::) >:(

Telling the same lies again in the hope that people will vote them back in. Everything in that speech is geared towards re-election of their party. As was pointed out by Rabbitte lies are what you tell at election time. Enda has had plenty of time to remediate a number of the items he now promises to fix.
The 5 point plan being regurgitated is particularly galling considering they did not achieve it.
Are we still talking about broadband??
The era of new taxes and charges are over. That's because apart from Oxygen there is nothing left to tax?

I mean you could pick holes in the speech all you want but the short of it is that they just want to stay on the gravy train. Scaremongering about not voting them back is pretty cheap. It's up to the others to show there is an alternative. To be fair a fukking rotting cabbage would do a better job than the ministers and teeshock.


Look personally I am no fan of the Blueshirts but am left wing in politics with a tenuous grá for a Labour. At the end of the day unemployment has fallen from 15% and will likely be under 10% before their term is up. We have the highest growth in Europe.  Our tourism industry is on fire. New beef markets have been opened in US and China. There's social programs we'd never see under FF: Gay marriage. Enda for all his faults and despite his own conservative Catholicism had stood up to Catholic Church something we've never seen from FF or Sinn Fein. We've seen a lot of new investment in the country. In contrast, in NI where Sinn Fein and DUP rule the roost we see nothing but a civil service society. It's actually a place where water meters are being set in place but won't be used. I mean Lord Jaysus but that takes the biscuit altogether. They fair play to you for watching that shite and providing us with updates.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on February 23, 2015, 08:22:04 AM
I see Adams threw another gaffebomb into the middle of his own party's election campaign yesterday. FG couldn't have paid for better PR than choosing the occasion of their razzmatazz and the media buzz about Kenny's list of coalition achievements to remind the electorate that the next election is a choice between SF and FG. That must have had them high-fiving in Castlebar.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2015, 11:11:57 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 02:06:51 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 22, 2015, 03:47:27 PM
I watched the FG Ard-Fheis... :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-\

I nearly choked when he rolled out the 5 point plan again. ::) >:(

Telling the same lies again in the hope that people will vote them back in. Everything in that speech is geared towards re-election of their party. As was pointed out by Rabbitte lies are what you tell at election time. Enda has had plenty of time to remediate a number of the items he now promises to fix.
The 5 point plan being regurgitated is particularly galling considering they did not achieve it.
Are we still talking about broadband??
The era of new taxes and charges are over. That's because apart from Oxygen there is nothing left to tax?

I mean you could pick holes in the speech all you want but the short of it is that they just want to stay on the gravy train. Scaremongering about not voting them back is pretty cheap. It's up to the others to show there is an alternative. To be fair a fukking rotting cabbage would do a better job than the ministers and teeshock.

I knew you watched it.  ;D Probably a number of times. It is important to be able to quote from these things when you are a lackey of another party.

The rest of society has better things to be doing than watch an Árd Fheis.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 23, 2015, 12:35:15 PM
Party leader says things that will appeal to their own supporters shock!!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Canalman on February 23, 2015, 12:48:08 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 23, 2015, 08:22:04 AM
I see Adams threw another gaffebomb into the middle of his own party's election campaign yesterday. FG couldn't have paid for better PR than choosing the occasion of their razzmatazz and the media buzz about Kenny's list of coalition achievements to remind the electorate that the next election is a choice between SF and FG. That must have had them high-fiving in Castlebar.


Fine Gael have been peddling this line for months now. Us v Sinn Féin.

Reckon we may have two quick GEs one after another.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2015, 12:52:00 PM
Quote from: Canalman on February 23, 2015, 12:48:08 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 23, 2015, 08:22:04 AM
I see Adams threw another gaffebomb into the middle of his own party's election campaign yesterday. FG couldn't have paid for better PR than choosing the occasion of their razzmatazz and the media buzz about Kenny's list of coalition achievements to remind the electorate that the next election is a choice between SF and FG. That must have had them high-fiving in Castlebar.


Fine Gael have been peddling this line for months now. Us v Sinn Féin.

Reckon we may have two quick GEs one after another.

Yip in 1981 we had three in on year. We could be going down that road again.

The new Greek leadership has fairly backtracked on its election promises. From demanding an end to the Troika bailout, it has merely got a bridging loan and bought time. But nothing has been reduced. They will end up doing what we did and getting lower interest rates I'd say. That's about it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 23, 2015, 01:00:00 PM
Real world vs election rhetoric..... Only one winner.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2015, 01:04:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 12:52:00 PM
Quote from: Canalman on February 23, 2015, 12:48:08 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 23, 2015, 08:22:04 AM
I see Adams threw another gaffebomb into the middle of his own party's election campaign yesterday. FG couldn't have paid for better PR than choosing the occasion of their razzmatazz and the media buzz about Kenny's list of coalition achievements to remind the electorate that the next election is a choice between SF and FG. That must have had them high-fiving in Castlebar.


Fine Gael have been peddling this line for months now. Us v Sinn Féin.

Reckon we may have two quick GEs one after another.

Yip in 1981 we had three in on year. We could be going down that road again.

The new Greek leadership has fairly backtracked on its election promises. From demanding an end to the Troika bailout, it has merely got a bridging loan and bought time. But nothing has been reduced. They will end up doing what we did and getting lower interest rates I'd say. That's about it.
If the electorate reject FG it'll be because of the 2010 bailout and follow up-  "for what we have failed to do"
especially if the Troika give in a start writing off debt.
And if that happens Ireland will be politically rudderless because the other stalwart party is still suffering from that bailout and there is no coherence to the indos. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2015, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2015, 01:04:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 12:52:00 PM
Quote from: Canalman on February 23, 2015, 12:48:08 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 23, 2015, 08:22:04 AM
I see Adams threw another gaffebomb into the middle of his own party's election campaign yesterday. FG couldn't have paid for better PR than choosing the occasion of their razzmatazz and the media buzz about Kenny's list of coalition achievements to remind the electorate that the next election is a choice between SF and FG. That must have had them high-fiving in Castlebar.


Fine Gael have been peddling this line for months now. Us v Sinn Féin.

Reckon we may have two quick GEs one after another.

Yip in 1981 we had three in on year. We could be going down that road again.

The new Greek leadership has fairly backtracked on its election promises. From demanding an end to the Troika bailout, it has merely got a bridging loan and bought time. But nothing has been reduced. They will end up doing what we did and getting lower interest rates I'd say. That's about it.
If the electorate reject FG it'll be because of the 2010 bailout and follow up-  "for what we have failed to do"
especially if the Troika give in a start writing off debt.
And if that happens Ireland will be politically rudderless because the other stalwart party is still suffering from that bailout and there is no coherence to the indos.

I agree to a point, but to put FG in again would send the wrong message. At times they have been competent and many other times they have been poor. But to reward them with another 5 years is not a good idea no matter which way you look at it. This is one of the big mistakes we made with FF.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 02:36:58 PM
I agree to a point, but to put FG in again would send the wrong message. At times they have been competent and many other times they have been poor. But to reward them with another 5 years is not a good idea no matter which way you look at it. This is one of the big mistakes we made with FF.

But unless FF reach some reasonable size, there is no credible alternative government.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2015, 03:27:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2015, 01:04:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 12:52:00 PM
Quote from: Canalman on February 23, 2015, 12:48:08 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 23, 2015, 08:22:04 AM
I see Adams threw another gaffebomb into the middle of his own party's election campaign yesterday. FG couldn't have paid for better PR than choosing the occasion of their razzmatazz and the media buzz about Kenny's list of coalition achievements to remind the electorate that the next election is a choice between SF and FG. That must have had them high-fiving in Castlebar.


Fine Gael have been peddling this line for months now. Us v Sinn Féin.

Reckon we may have two quick GEs one after another.

Yip in 1981 we had three in on year. We could be going down that road again.

The new Greek leadership has fairly backtracked on its election promises. From demanding an end to the Troika bailout, it has merely got a bridging loan and bought time. But nothing has been reduced. They will end up doing what we did and getting lower interest rates I'd say. That's about it.
If the electorate reject FG it'll be because of the 2010 bailout and follow up-  "for what we have failed to do"
especially if the Troika give in a start writing off debt.
And if that happens Ireland will be politically rudderless because the other stalwart party is still suffering from that bailout and there is no coherence to the indos.

I agree to a point, but to put FG in again would send the wrong message. At times they have been competent and many other times they have been poor. But to reward them with another 5 years is not a good idea no matter which way you look at it. This is one of the big mistakes we made with FF.
That is not too far off Greece, Muppet. Pasok as FF and New Democracy as FG with the indos as Syriza, without the organisation
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2015, 03:55:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 02:36:58 PM
I agree to a point, but to put FG in again would send the wrong message. At times they have been competent and many other times they have been poor. But to reward them with another 5 years is not a good idea no matter which way you look at it. This is one of the big mistakes we made with FF.

But unless FF reach some reasonable size, there is no credible alternative government.

I know. It is a terrible state of affairs tbh.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2015, 04:01:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 03:55:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 02:36:58 PM
I agree to a point, but to put FG in again would send the wrong message. At times they have been competent and many other times they have been poor. But to reward them with another 5 years is not a good idea no matter which way you look at it. This is one of the big mistakes we made with FF.

But unless FF reach some reasonable size, there is no credible alternative government.

I know. It is a terrible state of affairs tbh.
Even if they did reach some reasonable size they wouldn't be credible.
Economic crises are very hard on political parties.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 04:04:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2015, 04:01:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 03:55:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 02:36:58 PM
I agree to a point, but to put FG in again would send the wrong message. At times they have been competent and many other times they have been poor. But to reward them with another 5 years is not a good idea no matter which way you look at it. This is one of the big mistakes we made with FF.

But unless FF reach some reasonable size, there is no credible alternative government.

I know. It is a terrible state of affairs tbh.
Even if they did reach some reasonable size they wouldn't be credible.
Economic crises are very hard on political parties.

Short memories lads??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2015, 05:17:37 PM
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/community/protester-accused-of-biting-irish-water-worker-1-6596146 (http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/community/protester-accused-of-biting-irish-water-worker-1-6596146)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 23, 2015, 05:55:19 PM
Disgraceful thuggery let loose on working people by so called "socialists".
Nazis more like.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 06:03:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 03:55:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 02:36:58 PM
I agree to a point, but to put FG in again would send the wrong message. At times they have been competent and many other times they have been poor. But to reward them with another 5 years is not a good idea no matter which way you look at it. This is one of the big mistakes we made with FF.

But unless FF reach some reasonable size, there is no credible alternative government.

I know. It is a terrible state of affairs tbh.

If FG had stuck to their 5 point plan and actually introduced those measures they would have the backing of the people and would have been a lock on retaining office.
While people would be sympathetic to the fact that implementing healthcare reform and growing the economy are challenging areas the point on the plan referring to stopping cronyism and reforming how government works is certainly achievable if they had tackled it.
All we see is that nothing has changed. If your leaders don't tighten their belts at the same time they ask you to do the same how couldn't you be angry? Especially when people like Mr Rabbitte openly admits that he'll tell any sort of lies to get elected and ignores why they got voted in to office in the first place

Fianna Fail had years on the gravy train and kept it rolling as long as they could. Some of them are still getting their cut to this day. Their new batch or representatives are chomping at the bit to get on board to feather their nests.



Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2015, 07:05:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 06:03:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 03:55:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 02:36:58 PM
I agree to a point, but to put FG in again would send the wrong message. At times they have been competent and many other times they have been poor. But to reward them with another 5 years is not a good idea no matter which way you look at it. This is one of the big mistakes we made with FF.

But unless FF reach some reasonable size, there is no credible alternative government.

I know. It is a terrible state of affairs tbh.

If FG had stuck to their 5 point plan and actually introduced those measures they would have the backing of the people and would have been a lock on retaining office.
While people would be sympathetic to the fact that implementing healthcare reform and growing the economy are challenging areas the point on the plan referring to stopping cronyism and reforming how government works is certainly achievable if they had tackled it.
All we see is that nothing has changed. If your leaders don't tighten their belts at the same time they ask you to do the same how couldn't you be angry? Especially when people like Mr Rabbitte openly admits that he'll tell any sort of lies to get elected and ignores why they got voted in to office in the first place

Fianna Fail had years on the gravy train and kept it rolling as long as they could. Some of them are still getting their cut to this day. Their new batch or representatives are chomping at the bit to get on board to feather their nests.

Yes but sadly that is our only choice.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:34:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 06:03:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 03:55:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 02:36:58 PM
I agree to a point, but to put FG in again would send the wrong message. At times they have been competent and many other times they have been poor. But to reward them with another 5 years is not a good idea no matter which way you look at it. This is one of the big mistakes we made with FF.

But unless FF reach some reasonable size, there is no credible alternative government.

I know. It is a terrible state of affairs tbh.

If FG had stuck to their 5 point plan and actually introduced those measures they would have the backing of the people and would have been a lock on retaining office.
While people would be sympathetic to the fact that implementing healthcare reform and growing the economy are challenging areas the point on the plan referring to stopping cronyism and reforming how government works is certainly achievable if they had tackled it.
All we see is that nothing has changed. If your leaders don't tighten their belts at the same time they ask you to do the same how couldn't you be angry? Especially when people like Mr Rabbitte openly admits that he'll tell any sort of lies to get elected and ignores why they got voted in to office in the first place

Fianna Fail had years on the gravy train and kept it rolling as long as they could. Some of them are still getting their cut to this day. Their new batch or representatives are chomping at the bit to get on board to feather their nests.
So, present us with an alternative government.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 07:36:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:34:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 06:03:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 03:55:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 02:36:58 PM
I agree to a point, but to put FG in again would send the wrong message. At times they have been competent and many other times they have been poor. But to reward them with another 5 years is not a good idea no matter which way you look at it. This is one of the big mistakes we made with FF.

But unless FF reach some reasonable size, there is no credible alternative government.

I know. It is a terrible state of affairs tbh.

If FG had stuck to their 5 point plan and actually introduced those measures they would have the backing of the people and would have been a lock on retaining office.
While people would be sympathetic to the fact that implementing healthcare reform and growing the economy are challenging areas the point on the plan referring to stopping cronyism and reforming how government works is certainly achievable if they had tackled it.
All we see is that nothing has changed. If your leaders don't tighten their belts at the same time they ask you to do the same how couldn't you be angry? Especially when people like Mr Rabbitte openly admits that he'll tell any sort of lies to get elected and ignores why they got voted in to office in the first place

Fianna Fail had years on the gravy train and kept it rolling as long as they could. Some of them are still getting their cut to this day. Their new batch or representatives are chomping at the bit to get on board to feather their nests.
So, present us with an alternative government.

Maybe the SDLP want to come down and have a go? It's not like they are doing anything else ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:43:31 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 09:55:55 AM
Wait and see how much we will pay for water in a few years time. Think they plan to spend 900m a year but current revenue is 300m, could be wrong on that but there is a shortfall and once the fixed charge time lapses we're going to pay for this shambles.
Of course there's a shortfall. Have you been sleeping? The regulator agreed charges that were required to match the cost of providing the service and undertaking the investment, people got excited, and the government decided to cap the charges for a period. Once that period is over, the charges will increase to cover the full cost. That's how a self-funding utility works.

Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 09:55:55 AM
Penalties for unsafe water, open it up to competition to keep prices down, regulator to be able to intervene if prices get too high.
Seriously, I ask you again, how are you going to open the water market to competition? You think you'll have your water with Company A and your neighbour with Company B? How exactly does that model work?

Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 09:55:55 AM
Finally, it is possible for the state to gain by way of getting a share of the profits.
If the government want a deal to take a slice of the profits, then they'll get a lower price for selling it in the first place.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:44:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 07:36:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:34:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 06:03:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 03:55:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 02:36:58 PM
I agree to a point, but to put FG in again would send the wrong message. At times they have been competent and many other times they have been poor. But to reward them with another 5 years is not a good idea no matter which way you look at it. This is one of the big mistakes we made with FF.

But unless FF reach some reasonable size, there is no credible alternative government.

I know. It is a terrible state of affairs tbh.

If FG had stuck to their 5 point plan and actually introduced those measures they would have the backing of the people and would have been a lock on retaining office.
While people would be sympathetic to the fact that implementing healthcare reform and growing the economy are challenging areas the point on the plan referring to stopping cronyism and reforming how government works is certainly achievable if they had tackled it.
All we see is that nothing has changed. If your leaders don't tighten their belts at the same time they ask you to do the same how couldn't you be angry? Especially when people like Mr Rabbitte openly admits that he'll tell any sort of lies to get elected and ignores why they got voted in to office in the first place

Fianna Fail had years on the gravy train and kept it rolling as long as they could. Some of them are still getting their cut to this day. Their new batch or representatives are chomping at the bit to get on board to feather their nests.
So, present us with an alternative government.

Maybe the SDLP want to come down and have a go? It's not like they are doing anything else ;)
And what about a serious suggestion? Or are you admitting there's no viable alternative?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:46:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 11:15:46 AM
I wouldn't be a fan of Murphy and would never vote for him however he was elected on the back of the Water Charges. He is doing what the people asked him to do unlike the majority of politicians. Their ideas for the economy are a bit far fetched but Joe Higgins does make some fair points on how the money could be raised. Just because they can talk nonsense some of the time doesn't mean they don't have good ideas.
A stopped clock is right twice a day.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:53:27 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 02:06:51 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 22, 2015, 03:47:27 PM
I watched the FG Ard-Fheis... :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-\

I nearly choked when he rolled out the 5 point plan again. ::) >:(

Telling the same lies again in the hope that people will vote them back in. Everything in that speech is geared towards re-election of their party.
Imagine that! Imagine a party wanting to be re-elected! It's a disgrace!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 08:09:11 PM
Adams was on the radio today and I'd say the Brits got more useful information from him than the interviewer did. He was asked if he wanted to be Taoiseach, a reasonable question for a party that had topped a poll and was usually second. He was all coy and waffled about the people having their voice and whatnot. SF are anti-austerity, pro public service, pro business party and they would work with those that shared that agenda. But he wouldn't do like Labour and support a "right wing"government, so figure out who will be Taoiseach there.

FG and Labour now have the fastest growing economy in Europe, if they had a shred of principle their re-election would be a formality, instead the voters are wondering how to get rid of them without ending with loolahs instead.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 08:23:32 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:44:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 07:36:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:34:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 06:03:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 03:55:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 02:36:58 PM
I agree to a point, but to put FG in again would send the wrong message. At times they have been competent and many other times they have been poor. But to reward them with another 5 years is not a good idea no matter which way you look at it. This is one of the big mistakes we made with FF.

But unless FF reach some reasonable size, there is no credible alternative government.

I know. It is a terrible state of affairs tbh.

If FG had stuck to their 5 point plan and actually introduced those measures they would have the backing of the people and would have been a lock on retaining office.
While people would be sympathetic to the fact that implementing healthcare reform and growing the economy are challenging areas the point on the plan referring to stopping cronyism and reforming how government works is certainly achievable if they had tackled it.
All we see is that nothing has changed. If your leaders don't tighten their belts at the same time they ask you to do the same how couldn't you be angry? Especially when people like Mr Rabbitte openly admits that he'll tell any sort of lies to get elected and ignores why they got voted in to office in the first place

Fianna Fail had years on the gravy train and kept it rolling as long as they could. Some of them are still getting their cut to this day. Their new batch or representatives are chomping at the bit to get on board to feather their nests.
So, present us with an alternative government.

Maybe the SDLP want to come down and have a go? It's not like they are doing anything else ;)
And what about a serious suggestion? Or are you admitting there's no viable alternative?

The viable alternatives are anyone who isn't already in government.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 08:30:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 08:09:11 PM

FG and Labour now have the fastest growing economy in Europe

Yet hospitals are stacked with people on trolleys and child poverty has doubled since 2008

What a success! I'm so proud to be irish.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/government-failed-to-protect-irelands-children-from-poverty-childrens-rights-alliance-31015719.html

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 08:33:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 08:23:32 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:44:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 07:36:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:34:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 06:03:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 03:55:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 02:36:58 PM
I agree to a point, but to put FG in again would send the wrong message. At times they have been competent and many other times they have been poor. But to reward them with another 5 years is not a good idea no matter which way you look at it. This is one of the big mistakes we made with FF.

But unless FF reach some reasonable size, there is no credible alternative government.

I know. It is a terrible state of affairs tbh.

If FG had stuck to their 5 point plan and actually introduced those measures they would have the backing of the people and would have been a lock on retaining office.
While people would be sympathetic to the fact that implementing healthcare reform and growing the economy are challenging areas the point on the plan referring to stopping cronyism and reforming how government works is certainly achievable if they had tackled it.
All we see is that nothing has changed. If your leaders don't tighten their belts at the same time they ask you to do the same how couldn't you be angry? Especially when people like Mr Rabbitte openly admits that he'll tell any sort of lies to get elected and ignores why they got voted in to office in the first place

Fianna Fail had years on the gravy train and kept it rolling as long as they could. Some of them are still getting their cut to this day. Their new batch or representatives are chomping at the bit to get on board to feather their nests.
So, present us with an alternative government.

Maybe the SDLP want to come down and have a go? It's not like they are doing anything else ;)
And what about a serious suggestion? Or are you admitting there's no viable alternative?

The viable alternatives are anyone who isn't already in government.
No, they're just alternatives.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2015, 08:34:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 08:30:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 08:09:11 PM

FG and Labour now have the fastest growing economy in Europe

Yet hospitals are stacked with people on trolleys and child poverty has doubled since 2008

What a success! I'm so proud to be irish.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/government-failed-to-protect-irelands-children-from-poverty-childrens-rights-alliance-31015719.html

Wow. They gave the Government two grade As and an overall grade C. I wouldn't be that generous.

But Foxy I am guessing you didn't read the article to the end.  ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 09:00:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 08:34:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 08:30:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 08:09:11 PM

FG and Labour now have the fastest growing economy in Europe

Yet hospitals are stacked with people on trolleys and child poverty has doubled since 2008

What a success! I'm so proud to be irish.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/government-failed-to-protect-irelands-children-from-poverty-childrens-rights-alliance-31015719.html

Wow. They gave the Government two grade As and an overall grade C. I wouldn't be that generous.

But Foxy I am guessing you didn't read the article to the end.  ;D

Boosting literacy has f all to do with FG. Putting money into new schools however is welcome.
If you think a overall C rating is something to boast about then go ahead. The biggest non-fictional stat is the one to focus on.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 09:00:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 08:34:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 08:30:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 08:09:11 PM

FG and Labour now have the fastest growing economy in Europe

Yet hospitals are stacked with people on trolleys and child poverty has doubled since 2008

What a success! I'm so proud to be irish.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/government-failed-to-protect-irelands-children-from-poverty-childrens-rights-alliance-31015719.html

Wow. They gave the Government two grade As and an overall grade C. I wouldn't be that generous.

But Foxy I am guessing you didn't read the article to the end.  ;D

Boosting literacy has f all to do with FG. Putting money into new schools however is welcome.
If you think a overall C rating is something to boast about then go ahead. The biggest non-fictional stat is the one to focus on.

I didn't give them a C. You didn't read the full article and you didn't read my post either.

You probably haven't.....read sausages, burgers, chips and cold beer on ice, every hour. Hmmmm.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 23, 2015, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:46:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 11:15:46 AM
I wouldn't be a fan of Murphy and would never vote for him however he was elected on the back of the Water Charges. He is doing what the people asked him to do unlike the majority of politicians. Their ideas for the economy are a bit far fetched but Joe Higgins does make some fair points on how the money could be raised. Just because they can talk nonsense some of the time doesn't mean they don't have good ideas.
A stopped clock is right twice a day.

Which would be two nil to the clock when up against you and you're "shir it'll do and stop yere complaining"
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 23, 2015, 09:38:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 09:00:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 08:34:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 08:30:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 08:09:11 PM

FG and Labour now have the fastest growing economy in Europe

Yet hospitals are stacked with people on trolleys and child poverty has doubled since 2008

What a success! I'm so proud to be irish.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/government-failed-to-protect-irelands-children-from-poverty-childrens-rights-alliance-31015719.html

Wow. They gave the Government two grade As and an overall grade C. I wouldn't be that generous.

But Foxy I am guessing you didn't read the article to the end.  ;D

Boosting literacy has f all to do with FG. Putting money into new schools however is welcome.
If you think a overall C rating is something to boast about then go ahead. The biggest non-fictional stat is the one to focus on.

I didn't give them a C. You didn't read the full article and you didn't read my post either.

You probably haven't.....read sausages, burgers, chips and cold beer on ice, every hour. Hmmmm.

Can you just put "I'm intellectually and morally superior to everyone" on all your posts?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 09:45:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 23, 2015, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:46:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 11:15:46 AM
I wouldn't be a fan of Murphy and would never vote for him however he was elected on the back of the Water Charges. He is doing what the people asked him to do unlike the majority of politicians. Their ideas for the economy are a bit far fetched but Joe Higgins does make some fair points on how the money could be raised. Just because they can talk nonsense some of the time doesn't mean they don't have good ideas.
A stopped clock is right twice a day.

Which would be two nil to the clock when up against you and you're "shir it'll do and stop yere complaining"
You want to tell us how you'd introduce competition for water?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 23, 2015, 09:49:11 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 23, 2015, 09:38:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 09:00:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 08:34:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 08:30:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 08:09:11 PM

FG and Labour now have the fastest growing economy in Europe

Yet hospitals are stacked with people on trolleys and child poverty has doubled since 2008

What a success! I'm so proud to be irish.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/government-failed-to-protect-irelands-children-from-poverty-childrens-rights-alliance-31015719.html

Wow. They gave the Government two grade As and an overall grade C. I wouldn't be that generous.

But Foxy I am guessing you didn't read the article to the end.  ;D

Boosting literacy has f all to do with FG. Putting money into new schools however is welcome.
If you think a overall C rating is something to boast about then go ahead. The biggest non-fictional stat is the one to focus on.

I didn't give them a C. You didn't read the full article and you didn't read my post either.

You probably haven't.....read sausages, burgers, chips and cold beer on ice, every hour. Hmmmm.

Can you just put "I'm intellectually and morally superior to everyone" on all your posts?

That about sums up your contribution to this thread alright.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: StephenC on February 23, 2015, 10:12:13 PM
However, well placed sources said Derek Byrne, Paul Moore and Damien O'Neill had taken full meals in prison on Monday. They had breakfast in the morning, followed by lunch just after midday and a cooked tea in the evening, before being locked in their cells for the night.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/jailed-water-charges-protesters-abandon-hunger-strike-1.2114548?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Kidder81 on February 23, 2015, 10:25:02 PM
Quote from: StephenC on February 23, 2015, 10:12:13 PM
However, well placed sources said Derek Byrne, Paul Moore and Damien O'Neill had taken full meals in prison on Monday. They had breakfast in the morning, followed by lunch just after midday and a cooked tea in the evening, before being locked in their cells for the night.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/jailed-water-charges-protesters-abandon-hunger-strike-1.2114548?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Jamie Bryson giving tips on hunger striking ?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 23, 2015, 11:07:36 PM
Breakfast in the morning followed by a four hour hunger strike......
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 24, 2015, 02:35:51 AM
I'd say they are on hunger strike now and at least for another 5 hours.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 24, 2015, 03:07:03 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 09:00:56 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 23, 2015, 08:34:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2015, 08:30:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2015, 08:09:11 PM

FG and Labour now have the fastest growing economy in Europe

Yet hospitals are stacked with people on trolleys and child poverty has doubled since 2008

What a success! I'm so proud to be irish.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/government-failed-to-protect-irelands-children-from-poverty-childrens-rights-alliance-31015719.html

Wow. They gave the Government two grade As and an overall grade C. I wouldn't be that generous.

But Foxy I am guessing you didn't read the article to the end.  ;D

Boosting literacy has f all to do with FG. Putting money into new schools however is welcome.
If you think a overall C rating is something to boast about then go ahead. The biggest non-fictional stat is the one to focus on.
you didn't read my post either.

I value your opinion ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 24, 2015, 03:39:12 AM
Here's a caption competition for you muppet

(http://i60.tinypic.com/x247dx.jpg)

Templemore's finest keep watch as Fine Gael use their new minions to dig up old election promises...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2015, 09:51:59 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2015, 03:39:12 AM
Here's a caption competition for you muppet

(http://i60.tinypic.com/x247dx.jpg)

Templemore's finest keep watch as Fine Gael use their new minions to dig up old election promises...

Ironically that is one of the 2011 promises they kept. They said they would introduce water charges, but then they didn't have a choice either way.

But carry on beating your head off the ground and calling it a wall.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 24, 2015, 11:00:13 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 09:45:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 23, 2015, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:46:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 11:15:46 AM
I wouldn't be a fan of Murphy and would never vote for him however he was elected on the back of the Water Charges. He is doing what the people asked him to do unlike the majority of politicians. Their ideas for the economy are a bit far fetched but Joe Higgins does make some fair points on how the money could be raised. Just because they can talk nonsense some of the time doesn't mean they don't have good ideas.
A stopped clock is right twice a day.

Which would be two nil to the clock when up against you and you're "shir it'll do and stop yere complaining"
You want to tell us how you'd introduce competition for water?

To not have competition in a privatised situation would result in a monopoly, making competition necessary, not impossible as u suggest.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 24, 2015, 11:11:17 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 24, 2015, 11:00:13 AM
To not have competition in a privatised situation would result in a monopoly, making competition necessary, not impossible as u suggest.

Competition would be great, you could pay a premium and get Ballygowan out of your tap while your neighbours would still have the plain old tap water.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on February 24, 2015, 11:39:04 AM
Quote from: StephenC on February 23, 2015, 10:12:13 PM
However, well placed sources said Derek Byrne, Paul Moore and Damien O'Neill had taken full meals in prison on Monday. They had breakfast in the morning, followed by lunch just after midday and a cooked tea in the evening, before being locked in their cells for the night.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/jailed-water-charges-protesters-abandon-hunger-strike-1.2114548?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Conor Lallys tongue was firmly routed to his cheek with this one:

Mr Byrne's partner Siobhán Walsh said on Monday she was "worried sick" about the men being on hunger strike. However, Ms Walsh believed Mr Byrne would persist with his plans unless his "political" transfer to Wheatfield was reversed.
"Derek is a very strong-minded person and if he decides to do something then that's what he will do," she said.
Ms Walsh was speaking before it emerged the men were taking meals.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 24, 2015, 11:40:23 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 24, 2015, 11:11:17 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 24, 2015, 11:00:13 AM
To not have competition in a privatised situation would result in a monopoly, making competition necessary, not impossible as u suggest.

Competition would be great, you could pay a premium and get Ballygowan out of your tap while your neighbours would still have the plain old tap water.
Wonder could Sky get in on the act and deliver water through the oul dish? HD Water?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 24, 2015, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 24, 2015, 11:40:23 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 24, 2015, 11:11:17 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 24, 2015, 11:00:13 AM
To not have competition in a privatised situation would result in a monopoly, making competition necessary, not impossible as u suggest.

Competition would be great, you could pay a premium and get Ballygowan out of your tap while your neighbours would still have the plain old tap water.
Wonder could Sky get in on the act and deliver water through the oul dish? HD Water?

funny u mention sky. I heard the govt dept in charge of awarding the contract gave it to Sky until Sky informed them that they had not submitted a tender. Govt apologised and told them they had updated theeir records and that Denis O Brien was no longer listed on their records as a major shareholder of Sky.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2015, 12:46:47 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on February 24, 2015, 11:39:04 AM
Quote from: StephenC on February 23, 2015, 10:12:13 PM
However, well placed sources said Derek Byrne, Paul Moore and Damien O'Neill had taken full meals in prison on Monday. They had breakfast in the morning, followed by lunch just after midday and a cooked tea in the evening, before being locked in their cells for the night.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/jailed-water-charges-protesters-abandon-hunger-strike-1.2114548?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Conor Lallys tongue was firmly routed to his cheek with this one:

Mr Byrne's partner Siobhán Walsh said on Monday she was "worried sick" about the men being on hunger strike. However, Ms Walsh believed Mr Byrne would persist with his plans unless his "political" transfer to Wheatfield was reversed.
"Derek is a very strong-minded person and if he decides to do something then that's what he will do," she said.
Ms Walsh was speaking before it emerged the men were taking meals.


His partner was whinging about having to travel all the way from Donaghmede to Clondalkin to see her imprisoned husband.

Reminds me of a TD (Ruairi Quinn?) complaining that moving some hospital services to Tallagh would discommode some of his south Dublin constituents unfairly.

Great way to garner the culchie support.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: SLIGONIAN on February 24, 2015, 01:06:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2015, 09:51:59 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2015, 03:39:12 AM
Here's a caption competition for you muppet

(http://i60.tinypic.com/x247dx.jpg)

Templemore's finest keep watch as Fine Gael use their new minions to dig up old election promises...

Ironically that is one of the 2011 promises they kept. They said they would introduce water charges, but then they didn't have a choice either way.

But carry on beating your head off the ground and calling it a wall.
Why didn't they have a choice either way? Are you a fine gael supporter and a supporter of what they are doing?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2015, 01:39:12 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on February 24, 2015, 01:06:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2015, 09:51:59 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2015, 03:39:12 AM
Here's a caption competition for you muppet

(http://i60.tinypic.com/x247dx.jpg)

Templemore's finest keep watch as Fine Gael use their new minions to dig up old election promises...

Ironically that is one of the 2011 promises they kept. They said they would introduce water charges, but then they didn't have a choice either way.

But carry on beating your head off the ground and calling it a wall.
Why didn't they have a choice either way? Are you a fine gael supporter and a supporter of what they are doing?

Read the thread, I want them out of Government. This has nothing to do with any party politics. They are all beyond useless as far as I am concerned.

However, we had no choice on water charges because we signed an agreement with the Troika in 2010 to introduce water charges.

Watch Greece closely and see how hard it is to tear up such an agreement.

Especially when, according to David McWilliams (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-mcwilliams/david-mcwilliams-dont-celebrate-yet-the-bailout-exit-is-far-from-mission-accomplished-29827544.html), they have the legal right to take a levy from bank deposits if they decide we aren't playing ball.

If the Troika decide we need to pay up more then they can raid your bank account. God help anyone that has just drawn down a loan or mortgage.

This, if accurate, may be the most serious development I've read in 4 years. Did this Government agree to this, or the previous one? I don't have that answer at the moment but will keep an eye out for it.

"So concerned was the IMF about the unexploded landmine deep inside the banks that in its latest Fiscal Outlook, buried deep in the report, is a suggestion that a "capital levy" might be levied on wealth in the event that debt levels are not being brought down quick enough."
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 24, 2015, 02:50:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2015, 01:39:12 PM

If the Troika decide we need to pay up more then they can raid your bank account. God help anyone that has just drawn down a loan or mortgage.

This, if accurate, may be the most serious development I've read in 4 years. Did this Government agree to this, or the previous one? I don't have that answer at the moment but will keep an eye out for it.


Surely that can't be legal. Then again wouldn't surprise me if we were signed up for conscription to fight some war as part of this deal.
If it is true then this should have been announced. How can you keep that a secret from the public.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2015, 03:12:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 24, 2015, 02:50:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2015, 01:39:12 PM

If the Troika decide we need to pay up more then they can raid your bank account. God help anyone that has just drawn down a loan or mortgage.

This, if accurate, may be the most serious development I've read in 4 years. Did this Government agree to this, or the previous one? I don't have that answer at the moment but will keep an eye out for it.


Surely that can't be legal. Then again wouldn't surprise me if we were signed up for conscription to fight some war as part of this deal.
If it is true then this should have been announced. How can you keep that a secret from the public.

Reading McWilliams quote again he chooses his words very carefully.

"So concerned was the IMF about the unexploded landmine deep inside the banks that in its latest Fiscal Outlook, buried deep in the report, is a suggestion that a "capital levy" might be levied on wealth in the event that debt levels are not being brought down quick enough."

I wonder is that exactly how the IMF report phrases it, or is he being careful to protect himself?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 24, 2015, 03:12:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2015, 01:39:12 PM

Especially when, according to David McWilliams (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-mcwilliams/david-mcwilliams-dont-celebrate-yet-the-bailout-exit-is-far-from-mission-accomplished-29827544.html), they have the legal right to take a levy from bank deposits if they decide we aren't playing ball.

If the Troika decide we need to pay up more then they can raid your bank account. God help anyone that has just drawn down a loan or mortgage.

This, if accurate, may be the most serious development I've read in 4 years. Did this Government agree to this, or the previous one? I don't have that answer at the moment but will keep an eye out for it.

"So concerned was the IMF about the unexploded landmine deep inside the banks that in its latest Fiscal Outlook, buried deep in the report, is a suggestion that a "capital levy" might be levied on wealth in the event that debt levels are not being brought down quick enough."

How does a "suggestion" become a "legal right"??

Edit: Just saw your response - maybe leave the sensationalism to foxy!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 24, 2015, 03:32:35 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 24, 2015, 03:12:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2015, 01:39:12 PM

Especially when, according to David McWilliams (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-mcwilliams/david-mcwilliams-dont-celebrate-yet-the-bailout-exit-is-far-from-mission-accomplished-29827544.html), they have the legal right to take a levy from bank deposits if they decide we aren't playing ball.

If the Troika decide we need to pay up more then they can raid your bank account. God help anyone that has just drawn down a loan or mortgage.

This, if accurate, may be the most serious development I've read in 4 years. Did this Government agree to this, or the previous one? I don't have that answer at the moment but will keep an eye out for it.

"So concerned was the IMF about the unexploded landmine deep inside the banks that in its latest Fiscal Outlook, buried deep in the report, is a suggestion that a "capital levy" might be levied on wealth in the event that debt levels are not being brought down quick enough."

How does a "suggestion" become a "legal right"??

Edit: Just saw your response - maybe leave the sensationalism to foxy!!

well the govt have already dipped their grubby hands in to the private pension pot so they would have no problem thieving again.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2015, 03:35:05 PM
I found a CNBC report where they make the same mistake that I did: http://www.cnbc.com/id/101267557 (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101267557)

But I can't find the original quote from the IMF.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2015, 03:37:11 PM
Here is an odd article from a couple of months before McWilliams' piece: http://www.mondaq.com/x/277700/tax+authorities/IMF+Proposing+10+Super+Tax+Bailin+On+All+Eurozone+Savings (http://www.mondaq.com/x/277700/tax+authorities/IMF+Proposing+10+Super+Tax+Bailin+On+All+Eurozone+Savings)

In its October 2013 Taxing Times report, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) proposed the capital levy (supertax) of 10% on all household savings accounts in the Eurozone, which would hypothetically solve the debt problem, and tax avoidance in most sovereign countries.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 24, 2015, 06:35:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 24, 2015, 11:00:13 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 09:45:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 23, 2015, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:46:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 11:15:46 AM
I wouldn't be a fan of Murphy and would never vote for him however he was elected on the back of the Water Charges. He is doing what the people asked him to do unlike the majority of politicians. Their ideas for the economy are a bit far fetched but Joe Higgins does make some fair points on how the money could be raised. Just because they can talk nonsense some of the time doesn't mean they don't have good ideas.
A stopped clock is right twice a day.

Which would be two nil to the clock when up against you and you're "shir it'll do and stop yere complaining"
You want to tell us how you'd introduce competition for water?

To not have competition in a privatised situation would result in a monopoly, making competition necessary, not impossible as u suggest.
I appreciate it's a monopoly. That's why there's a regulator.

But you want to introduce competition and I want to understand how it would work. Take my own county. How would two or more water (and sewage) utilities operate? Would there be multiple networks within and between every town? Would each utility construct their own treatment works and reservoirs? If so, do you think this would make water cheaper or more expensive.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2015, 06:56:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2015, 06:35:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 24, 2015, 11:00:13 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 09:45:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 23, 2015, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:46:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 11:15:46 AM
I wouldn't be a fan of Murphy and would never vote for him however he was elected on the back of the Water Charges. He is doing what the people asked him to do unlike the majority of politicians. Their ideas for the economy are a bit far fetched but Joe Higgins does make some fair points on how the money could be raised. Just because they can talk nonsense some of the time doesn't mean they don't have good ideas.
A stopped clock is right twice a day.

Which would be two nil to the clock when up against you and you're "shir it'll do and stop yere complaining"
You want to tell us how you'd introduce competition for water?

To not have competition in a privatised situation would result in a monopoly, making competition necessary, not impossible as u suggest.
I appreciate it's a monopoly. That's why there's a regulator.

But you want to introduce competition and I want to understand how it would work. Take my own county. How would two or more water (and sewage) utilities operate? Would there be multiple networks within and between every town? Would each utility construct their own treatment works and reservoirs? If so, do you think this would make water cheaper or more expensive.

Eirgrid is the electricity equivalent, but it has not competition for the reasons you outline.

Power stations could have a water equivalent I suppose to have competition, but the network & meters and would still remain with the monopoly as they do with Eirgrid.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 24, 2015, 10:20:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2015, 06:56:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2015, 06:35:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 24, 2015, 11:00:13 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 09:45:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 23, 2015, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:46:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 11:15:46 AM
I wouldn't be a fan of Murphy and would never vote for him however he was elected on the back of the Water Charges. He is doing what the people asked him to do unlike the majority of politicians. Their ideas for the economy are a bit far fetched but Joe Higgins does make some fair points on how the money could be raised. Just because they can talk nonsense some of the time doesn't mean they don't have good ideas.
A stopped clock is right twice a day.

Which would be two nil to the clock when up against you and you're "shir it'll do and stop yere complaining"
You want to tell us how you'd introduce competition for water?

To not have competition in a privatised situation would result in a monopoly, making competition necessary, not impossible as u suggest.
I appreciate it's a monopoly. That's why there's a regulator.

But you want to introduce competition and I want to understand how it would work. Take my own county. How would two or more water (and sewage) utilities operate? Would there be multiple networks within and between every town? Would each utility construct their own treatment works and reservoirs? If so, do you think this would make water cheaper or more expensive.

Eirgrid is the electricity equivalent, but it has not competition for the reasons you outline.

Power stations could have a water equivalent I suppose to have competition, but the network & meters and would still remain with the monopoly as they do with Eirgrid.
Yep, that would be the theory - although I was really interested to see whether mikehunt could get that far - I can see many difficulties in practice.
And if it's a viable idea, i'd be interested in seeing examples of where it has worked in other countries.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 25, 2015, 12:04:16 AM
Regulators don't always work out too well - remember the financial regulator around 2007

Loans MR Fitzpatrick took from his bank worth 94 million euros for himself were unethical not illegal because the regulator had no actual financial policies, procedure or actual regulation in place apart from high level references

Water privatization incl meters and f&f could be done in local regions, counties, councils. Not sure if that would be the way to go but certainly under licence without making the Irish water company another public sector lazy ass entity waste of money drain on the taxpayer exercise!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 25, 2015, 07:16:38 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 25, 2015, 12:04:16 AM
Regulators don't always work out too well - remember the financial regulator around 2007

Loans MR Fitzpatrick took from his bank worth 94 million euros for himself were unethical not illegal because the regulator had no actual financial policies, procedure or actual regulation in place apart from high level references

Water privatization incl meters and f&f could be done in local regions, counties, councils. Not sure if that would be the way to go but certainly under licence without making the Irish water company another public sector lazy ass entity waste of money drain on the taxpayer exercise!
Private companies, in the absence of competition, still need a regulator.

And given your "public sector lazy ass entity" comments, why not privatise the health service too?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on February 25, 2015, 09:41:49 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 25, 2015, 07:16:38 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 25, 2015, 12:04:16 AM
Regulators don't always work out too well - remember the financial regulator around 2007

Loans MR Fitzpatrick took from his bank worth 94 million euros for himself were unethical not illegal because the regulator had no actual financial policies, procedure or actual regulation in place apart from high level references

Water privatization incl meters and f&f could be done in local regions, counties, councils. Not sure if that would be the way to go but certainly under licence without making the Irish water company another public sector lazy ass entity waste of money drain on the taxpayer exercise!
Private companies, in the absence of competition, still need a regulator.

And given your "public sector lazy ass entity" comments, why not privatise the health service too?
yes - I never said we didn't.
But a regulator with powers, plus more importantly, with actual policies and procedures. Unlike the old financial one.

there is already competition in health sector. With a few private hospitals doing v well for themselves - blackrock, hermitage, galway etc etc
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 25, 2015, 10:18:39 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 25, 2015, 09:41:49 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 25, 2015, 07:16:38 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 25, 2015, 12:04:16 AM
Regulators don't always work out too well - remember the financial regulator around 2007

Loans MR Fitzpatrick took from his bank worth 94 million euros for himself were unethical not illegal because the regulator had no actual financial policies, procedure or actual regulation in place apart from high level references

Water privatization incl meters and f&f could be done in local regions, counties, councils. Not sure if that would be the way to go but certainly under licence without making the Irish water company another public sector lazy ass entity waste of money drain on the taxpayer exercise!
Private companies, in the absence of competition, still need a regulator.

And given your "public sector lazy ass entity" comments, why not privatise the health service too?
yes - I never said we didn't.
But a regulator with powers, plus more importantly, with actual policies and procedures. Unlike the old financial one.

there is already competition in health sector. With a few private hospitals doing v well for themselves - blackrock, hermitage, galway etc etc

you're wasting your time trying to talk common sense to him. His strategy to address the deficit is to implement a new super quango. I can picture him reading policies and procedures in order to help him make a decision in his comfy public sector job.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: johnneycool on February 25, 2015, 11:08:42 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2015, 06:56:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2015, 06:35:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 24, 2015, 11:00:13 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 09:45:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 23, 2015, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:46:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 11:15:46 AM
I wouldn't be a fan of Murphy and would never vote for him however he was elected on the back of the Water Charges. He is doing what the people asked him to do unlike the majority of politicians. Their ideas for the economy are a bit far fetched but Joe Higgins does make some fair points on how the money could be raised. Just because they can talk nonsense some of the time doesn't mean they don't have good ideas.
A stopped clock is right twice a day.

Which would be two nil to the clock when up against you and you're "shir it'll do and stop yere complaining"
You want to tell us how you'd introduce competition for water?

To not have competition in a privatised situation would result in a monopoly, making competition necessary, not impossible as u suggest.
I appreciate it's a monopoly. That's why there's a regulator.

But you want to introduce competition and I want to understand how it would work. Take my own county. How would two or more water (and sewage) utilities operate? Would there be multiple networks within and between every town? Would each utility construct their own treatment works and reservoirs? If so, do you think this would make water cheaper or more expensive.

Eirgrid is the electricity equivalent, but it has not competition for the reasons you outline.

Power stations could have a water equivalent I suppose to have competition, but the network & meters and would still remain with the monopoly as they do with Eirgrid.

The Great British system, power, water, even rail, has the infrastructure owned and maintained by one company with the suppliers paying a set fee for the use of the infrastructure and have access to all customers on that infrastructure. i.e Virgin trains pay to use the rail lines they use to Network Rail who maintain the railway lines and signalling. Each company tenders for the services they wish to run.

I'd say due to economies of scale it wouldn't be feasible to do this for water, but Power, with the new interconnects, that's a different story a few years down the line.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on February 25, 2015, 01:29:47 PM
What are you talking about?

We already have that system for electricity and gas
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 25, 2015, 07:29:41 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 25, 2015, 11:08:42 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2015, 06:56:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2015, 06:35:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 24, 2015, 11:00:13 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 09:45:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 23, 2015, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 23, 2015, 07:46:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 20, 2015, 11:15:46 AM
I wouldn't be a fan of Murphy and would never vote for him however he was elected on the back of the Water Charges. He is doing what the people asked him to do unlike the majority of politicians. Their ideas for the economy are a bit far fetched but Joe Higgins does make some fair points on how the money could be raised. Just because they can talk nonsense some of the time doesn't mean they don't have good ideas.
A stopped clock is right twice a day.

Which would be two nil to the clock when up against you and you're "shir it'll do and stop yere complaining"
You want to tell us how you'd introduce competition for water?

To not have competition in a privatised situation would result in a monopoly, making competition necessary, not impossible as u suggest.
I appreciate it's a monopoly. That's why there's a regulator.

But you want to introduce competition and I want to understand how it would work. Take my own county. How would two or more water (and sewage) utilities operate? Would there be multiple networks within and between every town? Would each utility construct their own treatment works and reservoirs? If so, do you think this would make water cheaper or more expensive.

Eirgrid is the electricity equivalent, but it has not competition for the reasons you outline.

Power stations could have a water equivalent I suppose to have competition, but the network & meters and would still remain with the monopoly as they do with Eirgrid.

The Great British system, power, water, even rail, has the infrastructure owned and maintained by one company with the suppliers paying a set fee for the use of the infrastructure and have access to all customers on that infrastructure. i.e Virgin trains pay to use the rail lines they use to Network Rail who maintain the railway lines and signalling. Each company tenders for the services they wish to run.

I'd say due to economies of scale it wouldn't be feasible to do this for water, but Power, with the new interconnects, that's a different story a few years down the line.
Eh, no. Each of the water companies in GB own and maintain their own infrastructure.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 25, 2015, 07:37:21 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 25, 2015, 09:41:49 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 25, 2015, 07:16:38 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 25, 2015, 12:04:16 AM
Regulators don't always work out too well - remember the financial regulator around 2007

Loans MR Fitzpatrick took from his bank worth 94 million euros for himself were unethical not illegal because the regulator had no actual financial policies, procedure or actual regulation in place apart from high level references

Water privatization incl meters and f&f could be done in local regions, counties, councils. Not sure if that would be the way to go but certainly under licence without making the Irish water company another public sector lazy ass entity waste of money drain on the taxpayer exercise!
Private companies, in the absence of competition, still need a regulator.

And given your "public sector lazy ass entity" comments, why not privatise the health service too?
yes - I never said we didn't.
But a regulator with powers, plus more importantly, with actual policies and procedures. Unlike the old financial one.
So what powers, policies or procedures does the CER need that it doesn't have?

Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 25, 2015, 09:41:49 AM
there is already competition in health sector. With a few private hospitals doing v well for themselves - blackrock, hermitage, galway etc etc
I wasn't talking about a handful of private hospitals (it's not like the presence of these hospitals are going to make the public health service more efficient). I asking if you would suggest privatising the public health system.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 13, 2015, 02:17:06 AM
Awesome

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/03/12/obama-dreading-arrival-of-that-irish-p***k-next-week/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 13, 2015, 08:41:43 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2015, 02:17:06 AM
Awesome

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/03/12/obama-dreading-arrival-of-that-irish-p***k-next-week/

can imagine Obama asking Kenny to do Riverdance and Kenny obliging (after getting the nod from Dennis O Brien).
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 13, 2015, 07:02:30 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 13, 2015, 08:41:43 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2015, 02:17:06 AM
Awesome

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/03/12/obama-dreading-arrival-of-that-irish-p***k-next-week/

can imagine Obama asking Kenny to do Riverdance and Kenny obliging (after getting the nod from Dennis O Brien).

Or if Angela is pulling the strings

(http://api.ning.com/files/zogvUtrhf2tmqcEiK2rMTAZjuQCDjV0LVQFCbmSYivrN3ldUEsq9aNM6Q5BcGdPPgLuok8EnZCc7zHXDPI7WC5Kk07o2wWcC/388505_268611126524557_2078115941_n.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 13, 2015, 08:58:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2015, 07:02:30 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 13, 2015, 08:41:43 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2015, 02:17:06 AM
Awesome

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/03/12/obama-dreading-arrival-of-that-irish-p***k-next-week/

can imagine Obama asking Kenny to do Riverdance and Kenny obliging (after getting the nod from Dennis O Brien).

Or if Angela is pulling the strings

(http://api.ning.com/files/zogvUtrhf2tmqcEiK2rMTAZjuQCDjV0LVQFCbmSYivrN3ldUEsq9aNM6Q5BcGdPPgLuok8EnZCc7zHXDPI7WC5Kk07o2wWcC/388505_268611126524557_2078115941_n.jpeg)

Class  ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 13, 2015, 09:09:31 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 13, 2015, 08:58:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2015, 07:02:30 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 13, 2015, 08:41:43 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 13, 2015, 02:17:06 AM
Awesome

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/03/12/obama-dreading-arrival-of-that-irish-p***k-next-week/

can imagine Obama asking Kenny to do Riverdance and Kenny obliging (after getting the nod from Dennis O Brien).

Or if Angela is pulling the strings

(http://api.ning.com/files/zogvUtrhf2tmqcEiK2rMTAZjuQCDjV0LVQFCbmSYivrN3ldUEsq9aNM6Q5BcGdPPgLuok8EnZCc7zHXDPI7WC5Kk07o2wWcC/388505_268611126524557_2078115941_n.jpeg)

Class  ;D

I recognise that dance move...it's Walk the Dinosaur!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 13, 2015, 11:24:44 PM
Both FG and Lab up 2 points each in latest poll.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 03:14:53 AM
New Caption Competition

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAKbO2FUUAALoyE.jpg)

- After years of talking smack about opponents, promising big wins and earning way too much on the back of your ego do you not think the public are bored by this never-ending farce?
- Speak for yourself Mr Hogan..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 16, 2015, 10:11:52 AM
2polls in recent days show FG and Lab up 2 points each.FF stuck in the mud while SF's support dropping as people realise they are not the all new super whiter than white magicians after all.  :-\
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 16, 2015, 04:02:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 03:14:53 AM
New Caption Competition

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAKbO2FUUAALoyE.jpg)

- After years of talking smack about opponents, promising big wins and earning way too much on the back of your ego do you not think the public are bored by this never-ending farce?
- Speak for yourself Mr Hogan..

foxcommander, no one ever, anywhere, has more pictures of Enda. You must surely be his biggest fan.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 04:56:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 04:02:23 PM
foxcommander, no one ever, anywhere, has more pictures of Enda. You must surely be his biggest fan.

For entertainment value Enda is a superstar...a simpleton who for some unknown reason rules the roost.
It's like having Ralph Wiggum in charge of your country. He's too good not to share.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 16, 2015, 05:31:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 04:56:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 04:02:23 PM
foxcommander, no one ever, anywhere, has more pictures of Enda. You must surely be his biggest fan.

For entertainment value Enda is a superstar...a simpleton who for some unknown reason rules the roost.
It's like having Ralph Wiggum in charge of your country. He's too good not to share.

This certainly explains your unend(a)ing admiration.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 05:45:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 05:31:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 04:56:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 04:02:23 PM
foxcommander, no one ever, anywhere, has more pictures of Enda. You must surely be his biggest fan.

For entertainment value Enda is a superstar...a simpleton who for some unknown reason rules the roost.
It's like having Ralph Wiggum in charge of your country. He's too good not to share.

This certainly explains your unend(a)ing admiration.


More like my exasperation of how he still manages to get away with it.
Sort of reminds me of the Father Ted episode where they teach Jack to say "yes" or "that would be an ecumenical matter".

then again even when he does read from a script...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RA2Yf6QSHc

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 16, 2015, 05:54:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 05:45:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 05:31:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 04:56:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 04:02:23 PM
foxcommander, no one ever, anywhere, has more pictures of Enda. You must surely be his biggest fan.

For entertainment value Enda is a superstar...a simpleton who for some unknown reason rules the roost.
It's like having Ralph Wiggum in charge of your country. He's too good not to share.

This certainly explains your unend(a)ing admiration.


More like my exasperation of how he still manages to get away with it.
Sort of reminds me of the Father Ted episode where they teach Jack to say "yes" or "that would be an ecumenical matter".

then again even when he does read from a script...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RA2Yf6QSHc

Are you the Shinner's designated Endaman?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 06:00:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 05:54:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 05:45:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 05:31:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 04:56:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 04:02:23 PM
foxcommander, no one ever, anywhere, has more pictures of Enda. You must surely be his biggest fan.

For entertainment value Enda is a superstar...a simpleton who for some unknown reason rules the roost.
It's like having Ralph Wiggum in charge of your country. He's too good not to share.

This certainly explains your unend(a)ing admiration.


More like my exasperation of how he still manages to get away with it.
Sort of reminds me of the Father Ted episode where they teach Jack to say "yes" or "that would be an ecumenical matter".

then again even when he does read from a script...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RA2Yf6QSHc

Are you the Shinner's designated Endaman?

being an enda watcher would be a dream job...but no. It's a hobby.

Free thinker...not shinner...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 16, 2015, 06:01:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 06:00:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 05:54:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 05:45:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 05:31:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 04:56:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 04:02:23 PM
foxcommander, no one ever, anywhere, has more pictures of Enda. You must surely be his biggest fan.

For entertainment value Enda is a superstar...a simpleton who for some unknown reason rules the roost.
It's like having Ralph Wiggum in charge of your country. He's too good not to share.

This certainly explains your unend(a)ing admiration.


More like my exasperation of how he still manages to get away with it.
Sort of reminds me of the Father Ted episode where they teach Jack to say "yes" or "that would be an ecumenical matter".

then again even when he does read from a script...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RA2Yf6QSHc

Are you the Shinner's designated Endaman?

being an enda watcher would be a dream job...but no. It's a hobby.

Free thinker...not shinner...

You're even less free than Enda.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 16, 2015, 06:42:04 PM
Fox and Hunt obviously closet blueshirts ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 08:39:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 06:01:19 PM
You're even less free than Enda.  :D :D :D

Thanks to himself and the people that vote for him...

(https://ansionnachfionn.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/enda-kenny-the-great-leader-of-the-irish-nation.jpg?w=440&h=240&crop=1)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 16, 2015, 08:46:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 08:39:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 06:01:19 PM
You're even less free than Enda.  :D :D :D

Thanks to himself and the people that vote for him...

(https://ansionnachfionn.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/enda-kenny-the-great-leader-of-the-irish-nation.jpg?w=440&h=240&crop=1)

You may just be the first diagnosed case of pedogaelia.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 08:51:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 08:46:46 PM
You may just be the first diagnosed case of pedogaelia.

No plans for an accompanying "Fox'll Fix it" TV show.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 09:37:08 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 08:39:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 06:01:19 PM
You're even less free than Enda.  :D :D :D

Thanks to himself and the people that vote for him...

(https://ansionnachfionn.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/enda-kenny-the-great-leader-of-the-irish-nation.jpg?w=440&h=240&crop=1)

it's funny cos it's true. trying to down play Ireland's drinking culture when alcohol consumption in Ireland has soared in the last 30 years. Not surprising really, the way this country has been sold out would turn any sane person to drink.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 17, 2015, 10:03:52 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 09:37:08 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 08:39:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 06:01:19 PM
You're even less free than Enda.  :D :D :D

Thanks to himself and the people that vote for him...

(https://ansionnachfionn.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/enda-kenny-the-great-leader-of-the-irish-nation.jpg?w=440&h=240&crop=1)

it's funny cos it's true. trying to down play Ireland's drinking culture when alcohol consumption in Ireland has soared in the last 30 years. Not surprising really, the way this country has been sold out would turn any sane person to drink.

Ah yes, God be with the days when Ireland didn't drink. The ones before Enda got his hands on our livers.

I am wondering, have GNevin & Tankie returned?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 11:07:24 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 10:03:52 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 09:37:08 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 16, 2015, 08:39:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 16, 2015, 06:01:19 PM
You're even less free than Enda.  :D :D :D

Thanks to himself and the people that vote for him...

(https://ansionnachfionn.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/enda-kenny-the-great-leader-of-the-irish-nation.jpg?w=440&h=240&crop=1)

it's funny cos it's true. trying to down play Ireland's drinking culture when alcohol consumption in Ireland has soared in the last 30 years. Not surprising really, the way this country has been sold out would turn any sane person to drink.

Ah yes, God be with the days when Ireland didn't drink. The ones before Enda got his hands on our livers.

I am wondering, have GNevin & Tankie returned?

much like Enda your denial that drinking has got worse in this country is naive. yes the Irish have always been drinkers but the numbers showing up to hospitals with serious health issues as a direct result of alcohol abuse has soared. as Enda might put it "Paddy likes a drink from time to time but there's no harm in it" as he hopes we drink ourselves to death which results in savings for the exchequer.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 17, 2015, 12:58:25 PM
There are so many massive sticks to beat this Government available, and you go for alcohol consumption in the last 30 years?  ;D


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 17, 2015, 02:26:01 PM
Shows the rather low standard you're debating against Mupeen :-\
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 02:42:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 12:58:25 PM
There are so many massive sticks to beat this Government available, and you go for alcohol consumption in the last 30 years?  ;D
I have used plenty of other sticks. My point was about Kenny denying anything is wrong. It would be better if you took things at face value, who knows, it might make you less self righteous.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 02:46:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2015, 02:26:01 PM
Shows the rather low standard you're debating against Mupeen :-\

You taking a day off from your trojan efforts at improving workers rights? I'm sure James Connolly took an odd day off too.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on March 17, 2015, 04:13:05 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 02:46:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2015, 02:26:01 PM
Shows the rather low standard you're debating against Mupeen :-\

You taking a day off from your trojan efforts at improving workers rights? I'm sure James Connolly took an odd day off too.

Interesting to hear the man who wants to privatise irish water invoking James Connolly  :o
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 17, 2015, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 02:42:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 12:58:25 PM
There are so many massive sticks to beat this Government available, and you go for alcohol consumption in the last 30 years?  ;D
I have used plenty of other sticks. My point was about Kenny denying anything is wrong. It would be better if you took things at face value, who knows, it might make you less self righteous.

You are the one telling us how the Taoiseach should do his job.
And how we are all alcoholics.
And how you want to execute Rachel Allen because of her accent.
And belittling Alex Ferguson's record.
And Brendan Roger's.

All that in only the last 11 days, and now you are lecturing on self righteousness!  ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 02:42:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 12:58:25 PM
There are so many massive sticks to beat this Government available, and you go for alcohol consumption in the last 30 years?  ;D
I have used plenty of other sticks. My point was about Kenny denying anything is wrong. It would be better if you took things at face value, who knows, it might make you less self righteous.

You are the one telling us how the Taoiseach should do his job.
And how we are all alcoholics.
And how you want to execute Rachel Allen because of her accent.
And belittling Alex Ferguson's record.
And Brendan Roger's.

All that in only the last 11 days, and now you are lecturing on self righteousness!  ;D

You must have little to do if you're monitoring my every muse. Suppose that's the sacrifice one has to make to become a shaolin keyboard warrior like yourself.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 17, 2015, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 02:46:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2015, 02:26:01 PM
Shows the rather low standard you're debating against Mupeen :-\

You taking a day off from your trojan efforts at improving workers rights? I'm sure James Connolly took an odd day off too.

Was on my entitled lunch break. Only home from work now.
The things I do for my Country.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 08:07:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2015, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 02:46:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2015, 02:26:01 PM
Shows the rather low standard you're debating against Mupeen :-\

You taking a day off from your trojan efforts at improving workers rights? I'm sure James Connolly took an odd day off too.

Was on my entitled lunch break. Only home from work now.
The things I do for my Country.

That's a long shift. You'd want to get on to your union rep.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 17, 2015, 08:11:34 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 08:07:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2015, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 02:46:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2015, 02:26:01 PM
Shows the rather low standard you're debating against Mupeen :-\

You taking a day off from your trojan efforts at improving workers rights? I'm sure James Connolly took an odd day off too.

Was on my entitled lunch break. Only home from work now.
The things I do for my Country.

That's a long shift. You'd want to get on to your union rep.

Now now..he was entitled. Union rules.
Reminds me of "Carry on at your convenience"
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 17, 2015, 08:55:07 PM
Are you not entitled to a lunch break? Do you live in North Korea?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 17, 2015, 09:07:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2015, 08:55:07 PM
Are you not entitled to a lunch break? Do you live in North Korea?

Union regulation handbook states that you have an entitlement of one hour exactly for lunch break.

(http://91.207.61.14/m/uploads/v_p_images/1971/12/3475_14_screenshot.png)

...that was only 59 minutes and 30 seconds...STRIKE!!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 09:12:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2015, 08:55:07 PM
Are you not entitled to a lunch break? Do you live in North Korea?

If I was on treble time for a bank holiday like you I'd work the lunch hour.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 17, 2015, 09:16:30 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 02:42:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 12:58:25 PM
There are so many massive sticks to beat this Government available, and you go for alcohol consumption in the last 30 years?  ;D
I have used plenty of other sticks. My point was about Kenny denying anything is wrong. It would be better if you took things at face value, who knows, it might make you less self righteous.

You are the one telling us how the Taoiseach should do his job.
And how we are all alcoholics.
And how you want to execute Rachel Allen because of her accent.
And belittling Alex Ferguson's record.
And Brendan Roger's.

All that in only the last 11 days, and now you are lecturing on self righteousness!  ;D

You must have little to do if you're monitoring my every muse. Suppose that's the sacrifice one has to make to become a shaolin keyboard warrior like yourself.

It took me 15 seconds.  :D :D :D

The fact that you wouldn't know that is hilarious.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 18, 2015, 01:24:27 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 09:12:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2015, 08:55:07 PM
Are you not entitled to a lunch break? Do you live in North Korea?

If I was on treble time for a bank holiday like you I'd work the lunch hour.

Mike but ye're some lefties you and the other buck. Thank God Unions and Social Democrats got the plain people some rights.
Meanwhile the smoked salmon upper class loony lefties tilt at windmills.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 18, 2015, 08:45:27 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 09:16:30 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 02:42:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 12:58:25 PM
There are so many massive sticks to beat this Government available, and you go for alcohol consumption in the last 30 years?  ;D
I have used plenty of other sticks. My point was about Kenny denying anything is wrong. It would be better if you took things at face value, who knows, it might make you less self righteous.

You are the one telling us how the Taoiseach should do his job.
And how we are all alcoholics.
And how you want to execute Rachel Allen because of her accent.
And belittling Alex Ferguson's record.
And Brendan Roger's.

All that in only the last 11 days, and now you are lecturing on self righteousness!  ;D

You must have little to do if you're monitoring my every muse. Suppose that's the sacrifice one has to make to become a shaolin keyboard warrior like yourself.

It took me 15 seconds.  :D :D :D

The fact that you wouldn't know that is hilarious.

i take each post at face vaule, sometimes i don't even read the poster's name, their prior posts on diff topics are irrelevant, but that's just me, not being the intellectual and moral authority on everything. you just keep on proving your self righteousness by trying to ridicule anyone who doesn't agree with you. I'm glad i amuse you by the way. i don't take myself too seriously either.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 18, 2015, 12:23:31 PM
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/riots-break-out-at-opening-ceremony-for-new-ecb-hq-in-frankfurt-31076168.html

not as bad as Ireland's protests though. no water balloons or name calling, thank God.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 18, 2015, 02:03:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 18, 2015, 08:45:27 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 09:16:30 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 02:42:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 12:58:25 PM
There are so many massive sticks to beat this Government available, and you go for alcohol consumption in the last 30 years?  ;D
I have used plenty of other sticks. My point was about Kenny denying anything is wrong. It would be better if you took things at face value, who knows, it might make you less self righteous.

You are the one telling us how the Taoiseach should do his job.
And how we are all alcoholics.
And how you want to execute Rachel Allen because of her accent.
And belittling Alex Ferguson's record.
And Brendan Roger's.

All that in only the last 11 days, and now you are lecturing on self righteousness!  ;D

You must have little to do if you're monitoring my every muse. Suppose that's the sacrifice one has to make to become a shaolin keyboard warrior like yourself.

It took me 15 seconds.  :D :D :D

The fact that you wouldn't know that is hilarious.

i take each post at face vaule, sometimes i don't even read the poster's name, their prior posts on diff topics are irrelevant, but that's just me, not being the intellectual and moral authority on everything. you just keep on proving your self righteousness by trying to ridicule anyone who doesn't agree with you. I'm glad i amuse you by the way. i don't take myself too seriously either.

Your posts prove the opposite.

Your posts range merely from snide comments to sweeping condemnations. That is it. You offer nothing constructive at all. You lecturing on self righteousness is truly hilarious. You only do self righteous.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 18, 2015, 02:12:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 18, 2015, 02:03:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 18, 2015, 08:45:27 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 09:16:30 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 02:42:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 12:58:25 PM
There are so many massive sticks to beat this Government available, and you go for alcohol consumption in the last 30 years?  ;D
I have used plenty of other sticks. My point was about Kenny denying anything is wrong. It would be better if you took things at face value, who knows, it might make you less self righteous.

You are the one telling us how the Taoiseach should do his job.
And how we are all alcoholics.
And how you want to execute Rachel Allen because of her accent.
And belittling Alex Ferguson's record.
And Brendan Roger's.

All that in only the last 11 days, and now you are lecturing on self righteousness!  ;D

You must have little to do if you're monitoring my every muse. Suppose that's the sacrifice one has to make to become a shaolin keyboard warrior like yourself.

It took me 15 seconds.  :D :D :D

The fact that you wouldn't know that is hilarious.

i take each post at face vaule, sometimes i don't even read the poster's name, their prior posts on diff topics are irrelevant, but that's just me, not being the intellectual and moral authority on everything. you just keep on proving your self righteousness by trying to ridicule anyone who doesn't agree with you. I'm glad i amuse you by the way. i don't take myself too seriously either.

Your posts prove the opposite.

Your posts range merely from snide comments to sweeping condemnations. That is it. You offer nothing constructive at all. You lecturing on self righteousness is truly hilarious. You only do self righteous.

your self righteousness will only lead to further frustration. let it go and enjoy life.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 18, 2015, 02:15:21 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 18, 2015, 02:12:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 18, 2015, 02:03:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 18, 2015, 08:45:27 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 09:16:30 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 17, 2015, 02:42:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 17, 2015, 12:58:25 PM
There are so many massive sticks to beat this Government available, and you go for alcohol consumption in the last 30 years?  ;D
I have used plenty of other sticks. My point was about Kenny denying anything is wrong. It would be better if you took things at face value, who knows, it might make you less self righteous.

You are the one telling us how the Taoiseach should do his job.
And how we are all alcoholics.
And how you want to execute Rachel Allen because of her accent.
And belittling Alex Ferguson's record.
And Brendan Roger's.

All that in only the last 11 days, and now you are lecturing on self righteousness!  ;D

You must have little to do if you're monitoring my every muse. Suppose that's the sacrifice one has to make to become a shaolin keyboard warrior like yourself.

It took me 15 seconds.  :D :D :D

The fact that you wouldn't know that is hilarious.

i take each post at face vaule, sometimes i don't even read the poster's name, their prior posts on diff topics are irrelevant, but that's just me, not being the intellectual and moral authority on everything. you just keep on proving your self righteousness by trying to ridicule anyone who doesn't agree with you. I'm glad i amuse you by the way. i don't take myself too seriously either.

Your posts prove the opposite.

Your posts range merely from snide comments to sweeping condemnations. That is it. You offer nothing constructive at all. You lecturing on self righteousness is truly hilarious. You only do self righteous.

your self righteousness will only lead to further frustration. let it go and enjoy life.

You are reduced to ad hominem. You have nothing else.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 18, 2015, 02:58:43 PM
them'z fancy words to be using on a GAA forum. again, your desire to be intellectually and morally superior to all shines thorugh. i feel humbled to be able to debate with such a warrior. i will now take my leave to read books and pick up big and fancy words in order to debate in a more intellectual manner.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 18, 2015, 03:03:01 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 18, 2015, 12:23:31 PM
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/riots-break-out-at-opening-ceremony-for-new-ecb-hq-in-frankfurt-31076168.html

not as bad as Ireland's protests though. no water balloons or name calling, thank God.

I'm not sure they would be able to handle namecalling. or eggs. That's the worst of the lot.
Why people protest is beyond me. Surely they should accept that the ruling elite do things in the general population's best interests. Like GMO's for example. They're grrrrrrreat.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 18, 2015, 03:21:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 18, 2015, 03:03:01 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 18, 2015, 12:23:31 PM
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/riots-break-out-at-opening-ceremony-for-new-ecb-hq-in-frankfurt-31076168.html

not as bad as Ireland's protests though. no water balloons or name calling, thank God.

ull fund this gravy train and ull like it.

I'm not sure they would be able to handle namecalling. or eggs. That's the worst of the lot.
Why people protest is beyond me. Surely they should accept that the ruling elite do things in the general population's best interests. Like GMO's for example. They're grrrrrrreat.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Orior on March 18, 2015, 07:46:11 PM
Please let me go hide in a small dark room...

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/trending/watch-enda-kennys-attempted-handshake-with-barack-obama-goes-embarrassingly-wrong-31076173.html (http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/trending/watch-enda-kennys-attempted-handshake-with-barack-obama-goes-embarrassingly-wrong-31076173.html)

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 18, 2015, 08:06:45 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 18, 2015, 07:46:11 PM
Please let me go hide in a small dark room...

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/trending/watch-enda-kennys-attempted-handshake-with-barack-obama-goes-embarrassingly-wrong-31076173.html (http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/trending/watch-enda-kennys-attempted-handshake-with-barack-obama-goes-embarrassingly-wrong-31076173.html)

I expected it to be worse.

Look at Francios Hollande: http://www.buzzfeed.com/miriamberger/15-times-french-president-francois-hollande-messed-up-a-hand#.eyNQJYWVMB (http://www.buzzfeed.com/miriamberger/15-times-french-president-francois-hollande-messed-up-a-hand#.eyNQJYWVMB)

This takes the biscuit though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnDMBtgxnAI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnDMBtgxnAI)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 18, 2015, 09:06:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 18, 2015, 08:06:45 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 18, 2015, 07:46:11 PM
Please let me go hide in a small dark room...

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/trending/watch-enda-kennys-attempted-handshake-with-barack-obama-goes-embarrassingly-wrong-31076173.html (http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/trending/watch-enda-kennys-attempted-handshake-with-barack-obama-goes-embarrassingly-wrong-31076173.html)

I expected it to be worse.

Look at Francios Hollande: http://www.buzzfeed.com/miriamberger/15-times-french-president-francois-hollande-messed-up-a-hand#.eyNQJYWVMB (http://www.buzzfeed.com/miriamberger/15-times-french-president-francois-hollande-messed-up-a-hand#.eyNQJYWVMB)

This takes the biscuit though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnDMBtgxnAI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnDMBtgxnAI)

;D at both of those links
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Canalman on March 19, 2015, 09:49:11 AM
The more I see of it the more convinced I am that FG will get back in for the first time ever. Will imo take a 2nd GE to do it I think with roughly 4 blocks of FG/FF/SF/ Independents and both SF and FF probably unwilling to go into coalition with FG.

There will be a rerun with FG promising stability etc and they will win it.

IMO of course.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 19, 2015, 02:43:06 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 18, 2015, 07:46:11 PM
Please let me go hide in a small dark room...

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/trending/watch-enda-kennys-attempted-handshake-with-barack-obama-goes-embarrassingly-wrong-31076173.html (http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/trending/watch-enda-kennys-attempted-handshake-with-barack-obama-goes-embarrassingly-wrong-31076173.html)

Hopefully perfecting a handshake will keep him busy and away from ruining the country.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 19, 2015, 05:26:59 PM
Keep on strokin'...

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0319/688129-john-perry/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 11:39:49 AM
Hopefully there is a peaceful protest tomorrow with no shouting or chanting in case it upsets the sensitive souls out there who rightfully get outraged with water balloon throwing and name calling. Rumours that prisons have released murderers and rapists to make room for these balloon throwing thugs are as of yet unconfirmed. If true then while it may seem an extreme road to take, this anarchy needs to be nipped in the bud. As the 100 year anniversary of the Rising approaches it is a must that any opposition to our state's attempt at robbing it's citizens blind is destroyed. Did these great men die to give Irish people the right to protest at unfair taxes? Of course not. Long live Michael Lowry, long live Denis O Brien, long live Ireland Inc.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 12:44:17 PM
These great men died so that the Irish people could have their own democratic government, not so that people going about their business would be intimidated by yobs opposing that government.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 12:44:17 PM
These great men died so that the Irish people could have their own democratic government, not so that people going about their business would be intimidated by yobs opposing that government.

yeah true for you, i'd imagine these great men would be 100% behind Edna and Dennis on this one. now if we could only reincarnate O Higgins, he'd sort these protestors out.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 01:07:49 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 12:44:17 PM
These great men died so that the Irish people could have their own democratic government, not so that people going about their business would be intimidated by yobs opposing that government.

yeah true for you, i'd imagine these great men would be 100% behind Edna and Dennis on this one. now if we could only reincarnate O Higgins, he'd sort these protestors out.

This water thing is a minor charge, 50c a day for people who weren't already paying for water, if people don't like it they can vote for a government who will raise the revenue some other way. This kind of language about the state robbing its citizens blind implies that the government is not elected by the citizens. It is elected by citizens, most of whom realise that things have to be paid for, but some of whom march about disrupting traffic so that someone else will pay for their water.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 01:39:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 01:07:49 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 12:44:17 PM
These great men died so that the Irish people could have their own democratic government, not so that people going about their business would be intimidated by yobs opposing that government.

yeah true for you, i'd imagine these great men would be 100% behind Edna and Dennis on this one. now if we could only reincarnate O Higgins, he'd sort these protestors out.

This water thing is a minor charge, 50c a day for people who weren't already paying for water, if people don't like it they can vote for a government who will raise the revenue some other way. This kind of language about the state robbing its citizens blind implies that the government is not elected by the citizens. It is elected by citizens, most of whom realise that things have to be paid for, but some of whom march about disrupting traffic so that someone else will pay for their water.

ure lucky that a little bit of traffic disruption is all u have to worry about. some people can't afford any more taxes but I'm alright Jack so that's all that matters.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 01:07:49 PM
50c a day

and where will it end? You lot can't see past the end of your nose.
When families are being charged through the roof by these corporations for water and can't afford it then what happens next?

some of you lot don't remember the bad old days in 80's ireland when these sorts of margins meant the difference in having something to eat or not.
Child hunger in ireland getting back to those levels. But no...we're all far too sophisticated these days to believe it happens.

2016 - a hundred years of shame of what's become of the republic.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: gallsman on March 20, 2015, 02:20:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 01:07:49 PM
50c a day

and where will it end? You lot can't see past the end of your nose.
When families are being charged through the roof by these corporations for water and can't afford it then what happens next?

some of you lot don't remember the bad old days in 80's ireland when these sorts of margins meant the difference in having something to eat or not.
Child hunger in ireland getting back to those levels. But no...we're all far too sophisticated these days to believe it happens.

2016 - a hundred years of shame of what's become of the republic.

I'd simply love to see you back that up with something factual other than mindless rhetoric.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 02:45:08 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 20, 2015, 02:20:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 01:07:49 PM
50c a day

and where will it end? You lot can't see past the end of your nose.
When families are being charged through the roof by these corporations for water and can't afford it then what happens next?

some of you lot don't remember the bad old days in 80's ireland when these sorts of margins meant the difference in having something to eat or not.
Child hunger in ireland getting back to those levels. But no...we're all far too sophisticated these days to believe it happens.

2016 - a hundred years of shame of what's become of the republic.

I'd simply love to see you back that up with something factual other than mindless rhetoric.

For a fella who seems to know a lot you I'm surprised you've missed this. Have a little read while you drink your frappachino

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/more-children-arriving-in-school-hungry-survey-finds-1.1906798

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on March 20, 2015, 03:09:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 02:15:40 PM

and where will it end? You lot can't see past the end of your nose.
When families are being charged through the roof by these corporations for water and can't afford it then what happens next?


It's a semi-state body, not a corporation.

mikehunt would prefer if it were prviatised as a corporation though - something the two of you might want to discuss when ye're out marching tomorrow
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 03:10:06 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 20, 2015, 02:20:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 01:07:49 PM
50c a day

and where will it end? You lot can't see past the end of your nose.
When families are being charged through the roof by these corporations for water and can't afford it then what happens next?

some of you lot don't remember the bad old days in 80's ireland when these sorts of margins meant the difference in having something to eat or not.
Child hunger in ireland getting back to those levels. But no...we're all far too sophisticated these days to believe it happens.

2016 - a hundred years of shame of what's become of the republic.

I'd simply love to see you back that up with something factual other than mindless rhetoric.

link to mindless rhetoric below

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/irish-child-poverty-ranked-near-bottom-after-recession-increase-1.1979258
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 20, 2015, 03:10:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 01:07:49 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 12:44:17 PM
These great men died so that the Irish people could have their own democratic government, not so that people going about their business would be intimidated by yobs opposing that government.

yeah true for you, i'd imagine these great men would be 100% behind Edna and Dennis on this one. now if we could only reincarnate O Higgins, he'd sort these protestors out.

This water thing is a minor charge, 50c a day for people who weren't already paying for water, if people don't like it they can vote for a government who will raise the revenue some other way. This kind of language about the state robbing its citizens blind implies that the government is not elected by the citizens. It is elected by citizens, most of whom realise that things have to be paid for, but some of whom march about disrupting traffic so that someone else will pay for their water.
When the likes of Mike/Fox (are they the same person) and the loolahs start protesting about the fact that I and hundreds of thousands of other rural dwellers have had to pay for our water all the time yet had to pay the same tax rates as the cossetted town/city dwellers we were subsidising I'll take their protests seriously.
We also subsidise public transport in those areas but have none ourselves.
Where were they when VAT was increased by 2 percentage points which had a lot more effect on poor people than €3 a week for a good clean water supply?
Where were they when Carers for all the disabled and vulnerable were being cut?
Sicken my arse the lot of them especially the smoked salmon South Dublin private school Socialists and of course the "Cuts in the 6 Cos but  run the 26 Cos on magic money" Shinners.
Most of the latter two sets of so and sos never did a day's real work in their lives but continue to spout nonsense about working people and how much they're doing for them.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 03:14:33 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 20, 2015, 03:09:51 PM
It's a semi-state body, not a corporation.


That's the interim step..you think that's where ownership will end up?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on March 20, 2015, 03:18:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 03:14:33 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 20, 2015, 03:09:51 PM
It's a semi-state body, not a corporation.


That's the interim step..you think that's where ownership will end up?

That's where your buddy mike wants it to end up!!

For the record, no I don't think it will - the network will remain in state ownership in the same way the gas and electricity networks have.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: gallsman on March 20, 2015, 03:23:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 02:45:08 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 20, 2015, 02:20:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 01:07:49 PM
50c a day

and where will it end? You lot can't see past the end of your nose.
When families are being charged through the roof by these corporations for water and can't afford it then what happens next?

some of you lot don't remember the bad old days in 80's ireland when these sorts of margins meant the difference in having something to eat or not.
Child hunger in ireland getting back to those levels. But no...we're all far too sophisticated these days to believe it happens.

2016 - a hundred years of shame of what's become of the republic.

I'd simply love to see you back that up with something factual other than mindless rhetoric.

For a fella who seems to know a lot you I'm surprised you've missed this. Have a little read while you drink your frappachino

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/more-children-arriving-in-school-hungry-survey-finds-1.1906798

Fair enough - hadn't seen it. I'd question the validity of the sample size and your assertion that hunger levels are back on par with the 80s, but will happily acknowledge you had something to back up your assertions. For once  :)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 20, 2015, 03:24:40 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 20, 2015, 02:20:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 01:07:49 PM
50c a day

and where will it end? You lot can't see past the end of your nose.
When families are being charged through the roof by these corporations for water and can't afford it then what happens next?

some of you lot don't remember the bad old days in 80's ireland when these sorts of margins meant the difference in having something to eat or not.
Child hunger in ireland getting back to those levels. But no...we're all far too sophisticated these days to believe it happens.

2016 - a hundred years of shame of what's become of the republic.

I'd simply love to see you back that up with something factual other than mindless rhetoric.
actually im fairly sure there have been reports published recently where child hunger and child poverty have reached double digits in percentage
I don't have any links - but google it and im sure you will find them

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 03:29:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 20, 2015, 03:10:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 01:07:49 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 12:44:17 PM
These great men died so that the Irish people could have their own democratic government, not so that people going about their business would be intimidated by yobs opposing that government.

yeah true for you, i'd imagine these great men would be 100% behind Edna and Dennis on this one. now if we could only reincarnate O Higgins, he'd sort these protestors out.

This water thing is a minor charge, 50c a day for people who weren't already paying for water, if people don't like it they can vote for a government who will raise the revenue some other way. This kind of language about the state robbing its citizens blind implies that the government is not elected by the citizens. It is elected by citizens, most of whom realise that things have to be paid for, but some of whom march about disrupting traffic so that someone else will pay for their water.
When the likes of Mike/Fox (are they the same person) and the loolahs start protesting about the fact that I and hundreds of thousands of other rural dwellers have had to pay for our water all the time yet had to pay the same tax rates as the cossetted town/city dwellers we were subsidising I'll take their protests seriously.
We also subsidise public transport in those areas but have none ourselves.
Where were they when VAT was increased by 2 percentage points which had a lot more effect on poor people than €3 a week for a good clean water supply?
Where were they when Carers for all the disabled and vulnerable were being cut?
Sicken my arse the lot of them especially the smoked salmon South Dublin private school Socialists and of course the "Cuts in the 6 Cos but  run the 26 Cos on magic money" Shinners.
Most of the latter two sets of so and sos never did a day's real work in their lives but continue to spout nonsense about working people and how much they're doing for them.

You will find that the hundred thousand thugs protesting were not just protesting about water charges. Water Charges was the final straw for these thugs and won't pay brigade. 80% of total health expenditure is spent on salaries yet none of this could be tackled. No middle mgt personnel were cut. O Reilly therefore only had 20% to play with. Public sector pay was placed ahead of the sick. Your ire should be sparedfor those that made this cowardly decision. There is no need for all these to administer the health service. duplication and inefficiency is rife. What do the govt do? Implement the exact same strategy for Irish Water. You're ok with this cos "i already pay for my water".   
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 03:55:05 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 20, 2015, 03:18:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 03:14:33 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 20, 2015, 03:09:51 PM
It's a semi-state body, not a corporation.


That's the interim step..you think that's where ownership will end up?

That's where your buddy mike wants it to end up!!

For the record, no I don't think it will - the network will remain in state ownership in the same way the gas and electricity networks have.

All i see is underhand strategies including dodgy chairmen, hush-hush subcontracts to favoured businessmen and the usual host of stroke politicians waiting to get their snouts in the trough or help get their buddies in there. The water issue is secondary. Can you trust them to run this right once they get the green light? Prices will rise as incompetence grows and bonuses are required...

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 04:05:23 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 20, 2015, 03:23:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 02:45:08 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 20, 2015, 02:20:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 01:07:49 PM
50c a day

and where will it end? You lot can't see past the end of your nose.
When families are being charged through the roof by these corporations for water and can't afford it then what happens next?

some of you lot don't remember the bad old days in 80's ireland when these sorts of margins meant the difference in having something to eat or not.
Child hunger in ireland getting back to those levels. But no...we're all far too sophisticated these days to believe it happens.

2016 - a hundred years of shame of what's become of the republic.

I'd simply love to see you back that up with something factual other than mindless rhetoric.

For a fella who seems to know a lot you I'm surprised you've missed this. Have a little read while you drink your frappachino

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/more-children-arriving-in-school-hungry-survey-finds-1.1906798

Fair enough - hadn't seen it. I'd question the validity of the sample size and your assertion that hunger levels are back on par with the 80s, but will happily acknowledge you had something to back up your assertions. For once  :)

I'm glad you acknowledge this is a real problem. If you then think that these parents already can't afford to feed their kids what else are they going to have to sacrifice in order to pay for water?

If you've ever been that kid who's been hungry you might have a little more compassion for those who are protesting the charges. If they could afford to pay i'm sure they would but all the new taxes over the last few years have just stretched people to breaking point. A fine republic.






Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on March 20, 2015, 04:09:27 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 03:55:05 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 20, 2015, 03:18:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 03:14:33 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 20, 2015, 03:09:51 PM
It's a semi-state body, not a corporation.


That's the interim step..you think that's where ownership will end up?

That's where your buddy mike wants it to end up!!

For the record, no I don't think it will - the network will remain in state ownership in the same way the gas and electricity networks have.

All i see is underhand strategies including dodgy chairmen, hush-hush subcontracts to favoured businessmen and the usual host of stroke politicians waiting to get their snouts in the trough or help get their buddies in there. The water issue is secondary. Can you trust them to run this right once they get the green light? Prices will rise as incompetence grows and bonuses are required...

For a start, the politicians aren't running Irish Water, that's why it's a semi-state.

If the water issue is secondary, then why the protests?? If there were mass protests about the state of the health system, there would be almost universal support. Instead, these protestors are only interested in protesting against this because they can directly see a bill coming in the door at them and it affects them personally - never mind the fact that the water system has been mismanaged by the councils for years to land us where we currently are.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 04:25:19 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 20, 2015, 04:09:27 PM

For a start, the politicians aren't running Irish Water, that's why it's a semi-state.

oh i think you'll find the politicians are running Irish Water. Did they not tell Tierney to stay away from interviews, were they not the ones who decided on the fixed charge?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on March 20, 2015, 05:37:42 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 04:25:19 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 20, 2015, 04:09:27 PM

For a start, the politicians aren't running Irish Water, that's why it's a semi-state.

oh i think you'll find the politicians are running Irish Water. Did they not tell Tierney to stay away from interviews, were they not the ones who decided on the fixed charge?

Once you get irish water privatised, there'll be none of that anyway
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 03:29:28 PM
You will find that the hundred thousand thugs protesting were not just protesting about water charges. Water Charges was the final straw for these thugs and won't pay brigade. 80% of total health expenditure is spent on salaries yet none of this could be tackled.

Saying the 80% of money is spent on salaries doesn't say anything directly, hospitals without staff would be useless. And of course salaries of the people in the health service were cut, by 30% in some cases. How did that one work out http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-25pc-of-medical-consultant-posts-filled-29447254.html. As always your posts have a limited connection with reality.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 06:07:10 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 20, 2015, 04:09:27 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 03:55:05 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 20, 2015, 03:18:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 03:14:33 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 20, 2015, 03:09:51 PM
It's a semi-state body, not a corporation.


That's the interim step..you think that's where ownership will end up?

That's where your buddy mike wants it to end up!!

For the record, no I don't think it will - the network will remain in state ownership in the same way the gas and electricity networks have.

All i see is underhand strategies including dodgy chairmen, hush-hush subcontracts to favoured businessmen and the usual host of stroke politicians waiting to get their snouts in the trough or help get their buddies in there. The water issue is secondary. Can you trust them to run this right once they get the green light? Prices will rise as incompetence grows and bonuses are required...

For a start, the politicians aren't running Irish Water, that's why it's a semi-state.

If the water issue is secondary, then why the protests?? If there were mass protests about the state of the health system, there would be almost universal support. Instead, these protestors are only interested in protesting against this because they can directly see a bill coming in the door at them and it affects them personally - never mind the fact that the water system has been mismanaged by the councils for years to land us where we currently are.

I meant the water issue is secondary to those involved in irish water..it's a new commodity that people like DOB are trying to get a slice of. There's money to be made and positions to be filled. Another semi-state gravy train.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 06:53:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 03:29:28 PM
You will find that the hundred thousand thugs protesting were not just protesting about water charges. Water Charges was the final straw for these thugs and won't pay brigade. 80% of total health expenditure is spent on salaries yet none of this could be tackled.

Saying the 80% of money is spent on salaries doesn't say anything directly, hospitals without staff would be useless. And of course salaries of the people in the health service were cut, by 30% in some cases. How did that one work out http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-25pc-of-medical-consultant-posts-filled-29447254.html. As always your posts have a limited connection with reality.
Precisely. What would you expect money in the health service to be spent on, if not doctors, nurses, surgeons, porters etc.... ? Without people, there's no health service.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 07:00:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 06:53:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 03:29:28 PM
You will find that the hundred thousand thugs protesting were not just protesting about water charges. Water Charges was the final straw for these thugs and won't pay brigade. 80% of total health expenditure is spent on salaries yet none of this could be tackled.

Saying the 80% of money is spent on salaries doesn't say anything directly, hospitals without staff would be useless. And of course salaries of the people in the health service were cut, by 30% in some cases. How did that one work out http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-25pc-of-medical-consultant-posts-filled-29447254.html. As always your posts have a limited connection with reality.
Precisely. What would you expect money in the health service to be spent on, if not doctors, nurses, surgeons, porters etc.... ? Without people, there's no health service.

Should take a look at clearing out "administration" staff. Lots of incompetent pen-pushers who add no value.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 07:06:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 06:53:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 03:29:28 PM
You will find that the hundred thousand thugs protesting were not just protesting about water charges. Water Charges was the final straw for these thugs and won't pay brigade. 80% of total health expenditure is spent on salaries yet none of this could be tackled.

Saying the 80% of money is spent on salaries doesn't say anything directly, hospitals without staff would be useless. And of course salaries of the people in the health service were cut, by 30% in some cases. How did that one work out http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-25pc-of-medical-consultant-posts-filled-29447254.html. As always your posts have a limited connection with reality.
Precisely. What would you expect money in the health service to be spent on, if not doctors, nurses, surgeons, porters etc.... ? Without people, there's no health service.

Nurses and doctors deserve every penny they get. My gripe is with the level of admin staff. Too much being spent on admin rather than front line services. Wouldn't mind if they were at least efficient but anecdotal evidence suggests that all they do is interfere.

Maguire you don't want any change in case it interferes with your cosy public sector life. Dont blame you but spare us your sanctimonious bullshit.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 07:07:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 07:00:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 06:53:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 03:29:28 PM
You will find that the hundred thousand thugs protesting were not just protesting about water charges. Water Charges was the final straw for these thugs and won't pay brigade. 80% of total health expenditure is spent on salaries yet none of this could be tackled.

Saying the 80% of money is spent on salaries doesn't say anything directly, hospitals without staff would be useless. And of course salaries of the people in the health service were cut, by 30% in some cases. How did that one work out http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-25pc-of-medical-consultant-posts-filled-29447254.html. As always your posts have a limited connection with reality.
Precisely. What would you expect money in the health service to be spent on, if not doctors, nurses, surgeons, porters etc.... ? Without people, there's no health service.

Should take a look at clearing out "administration" staff. Lots of incompetent pen-pushers who add no value.
Maybe, but any money saved would be needed for more doctors and nurses, so you still have that proportion of expenditure on salaries. The point is that the 80% argument means absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 07:13:42 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 07:06:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 06:53:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 03:29:28 PM
You will find that the hundred thousand thugs protesting were not just protesting about water charges. Water Charges was the final straw for these thugs and won't pay brigade. 80% of total health expenditure is spent on salaries yet none of this could be tackled.

Saying the 80% of money is spent on salaries doesn't say anything directly, hospitals without staff would be useless. And of course salaries of the people in the health service were cut, by 30% in some cases. How did that one work out http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-25pc-of-medical-consultant-posts-filled-29447254.html. As always your posts have a limited connection with reality.
Precisely. What would you expect money in the health service to be spent on, if not doctors, nurses, surgeons, porters etc.... ? Without people, there's no health service.

Nurses and doctors deserve every penny they get. My gripe is with the level of admin staff. Too much being spent on admin rather than front line services. Wouldn't mind if they were at least efficient but anecdotal evidence suggests that all they do is interfere.

Maguire you don't want any change in case it interferes with your cosy public sector life. Dont blame you but spare us your sanctimonious bullshit.
As I live and work in the north, the way the HSE spends its money doesn't directly affect me.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on March 20, 2015, 07:17:07 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 07:06:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 06:53:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 03:29:28 PM
You will find that the hundred thousand thugs protesting were not just protesting about water charges. Water Charges was the final straw for these thugs and won't pay brigade. 80% of total health expenditure is spent on salaries yet none of this could be tackled.

Saying the 80% of money is spent on salaries doesn't say anything directly, hospitals without staff would be useless. And of course salaries of the people in the health service were cut, by 30% in some cases. How did that one work out http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-25pc-of-medical-consultant-posts-filled-29447254.html. As always your posts have a limited connection with reality.
Precisely. What would you expect money in the health service to be spent on, if not doctors, nurses, surgeons, porters etc.... ? Without people, there's no health service.

Nurses and doctors deserve every penny they get. My gripe is with the level of admin staff. Too much being spent on admin rather than front line services. Wouldn't mind if they were at least efficient but anecdotal evidence suggests that all they do is interfere.

Maguire you don't want any change in case it interferes with your cosy public sector life. Dont blame you but spare us your sanctimonious bullshit.

How much is spent on Admin compared to on front line?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 20, 2015, 08:41:23 PM
That Mike Hunt is getting tiresome with his stereotypes of cushy public sector jobs.
Try picking up body pieces or hosing down blood after a traffic accident.
He also seems to be an expert on the internal workings of the HSE .
He's joined my ignore list as I can't suffer his sh1te any longer.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 20, 2015, 08:41:23 PM
That Mike Hunt is getting tiresome with his stereotypes of cushy public sector jobs.
Try picking up body pieces or hosing down blood after a traffic accident.
He also seems to be an expert on the internal workings of the HSE .
He's joined my ignore list as I can't suffer his sh1te any longer.

Not sure that ignore option is working. You've mentioned having me on that list three times now yet you still pass comment on what I post.

Guaranteed job for life with defined benefit pension is something the private sector could only dream of. Most people would be grateful but you talk like you're hard done by.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 09:43:49 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 20, 2015, 08:41:23 PM
That Mike Hunt is getting tiresome with his stereotypes of cushy public sector jobs.
Try picking up body pieces or hosing down blood after a traffic accident.
He also seems to be an expert on the internal workings of the HSE .
He's joined my ignore list as I can't suffer his sh1te any longer.

Not sure that ignore option is working. You've mentioned having me on that list three times now yet you still pass comment on what I post.

I imagine the ignore option doesn't hide your comments when quote by others.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 20, 2015, 10:33:40 PM
Correct Maguire ( unfortunately)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 20, 2015, 11:38:22 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 07:07:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 07:00:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 06:53:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 03:29:28 PM
You will find that the hundred thousand thugs protesting were not just protesting about water charges. Water Charges was the final straw for these thugs and won't pay brigade. 80% of total health expenditure is spent on salaries yet none of this could be tackled.

Saying the 80% of money is spent on salaries doesn't say anything directly, hospitals without staff would be useless. And of course salaries of the people in the health service were cut, by 30% in some cases. How did that one work out http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-25pc-of-medical-consultant-posts-filled-29447254.html. As always your posts have a limited connection with reality.
Precisely. What would you expect money in the health service to be spent on, if not doctors, nurses, surgeons, porters etc.... ? Without people, there's no health service.

Should take a look at clearing out "administration" staff. Lots of incompetent pen-pushers who add no value.
Maybe, but any money saved would be needed for more doctors and nurses, so you still have that proportion of expenditure on salaries. The point is that the 80% argument means absolutely nothing.
I'd expect it would mean the world to those waiting for medical procedures, those on trolleys or those trying to get medication
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 20, 2015, 11:45:05 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 20, 2015, 08:41:23 PM
That Mike Hunt is getting tiresome with his stereotypes of cushy public sector jobs.
Try picking up body pieces or hosing down blood after a traffic accident.
He also seems to be an expert on the internal workings of the HSE .
He's joined my ignore list as I can't suffer his sh1te any longer.

Not sure that ignore option is working. You've mentioned having me on that list three times now yet you still pass comment on what I post.

Guaranteed job for life with defined benefit pension is something the private sector could only dream of. Most people would be grateful but you talk like you're hard done by.
You can't blame them for that. Until these things ( db pension, guaranteed pay increases or back pay pay increases, bonuses etc) are brought into line with private sector- then there will be this disparity.
There is an over subscription of staff in certain departments ( eg Fortas decommissioned yet all staff reassigned to other departments - some if not all departments already fully staffed).
Then the lack of performance management in these agencies and departments... Even when they have perf mgt systems. You'd not believe the inefficiency and the lack of work and pure laziness of about 40-50% of these people
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 21, 2015, 08:25:57 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 20, 2015, 11:38:22 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 07:07:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 07:00:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 06:53:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 03:29:28 PM
You will find that the hundred thousand thugs protesting were not just protesting about water charges. Water Charges was the final straw for these thugs and won't pay brigade. 80% of total health expenditure is spent on salaries yet none of this could be tackled.

Saying the 80% of money is spent on salaries doesn't say anything directly, hospitals without staff would be useless. And of course salaries of the people in the health service were cut, by 30% in some cases. How did that one work out http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-25pc-of-medical-consultant-posts-filled-29447254.html. As always your posts have a limited connection with reality.
Precisely. What would you expect money in the health service to be spent on, if not doctors, nurses, surgeons, porters etc.... ? Without people, there's no health service.

Should take a look at clearing out "administration" staff. Lots of incompetent pen-pushers who add no value.
Maybe, but any money saved would be needed for more doctors and nurses, so you still have that proportion of expenditure on salaries. The point is that the 80% argument means absolutely nothing.
I'd expect it would mean the world to those waiting for medical procedures, those on trolleys or those trying to get medication
Why would a random statistic mean anything to them? Is 80% staffing costs too low or too high for a health service? Without context it means nothing to anybody.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 21, 2015, 10:20:57 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 21, 2015, 08:25:57 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 20, 2015, 11:38:22 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 07:07:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 07:00:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 06:53:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 03:29:28 PM
You will find that the hundred thousand thugs protesting were not just protesting about water charges. Water Charges was the final straw for these thugs and won't pay brigade. 80% of total health expenditure is spent on salaries yet none of this could be tackled.

Saying the 80% of money is spent on salaries doesn't say anything directly, hospitals without staff would be useless. And of course salaries of the people in the health service were cut, by 30% in some cases. How did that one work out http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-25pc-of-medical-consultant-posts-filled-29447254.html. As always your posts have a limited connection with reality.
Precisely. What would you expect money in the health service to be spent on, if not doctors, nurses, surgeons, porters etc.... ? Without people, there's no health service.

Should take a look at clearing out "administration" staff. Lots of incompetent pen-pushers who add no value.
Maybe, but any money saved would be needed for more doctors and nurses, so you still have that proportion of expenditure on salaries. The point is that the 80% argument means absolutely nothing.
I'd expect it would mean the world to those waiting for medical procedures, those on trolleys or those trying to get medication
Why would a random statistic mean anything to them? Is 80% staffing costs too low or too high for a health service? Without context it means nothing to anybody.
That actually wasn't what I meant. I'm sure you know this.

The point is that money saved on wages for excess pen pushers would be greatly appreciated by those in dire need of augmented medical services.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 21, 2015, 11:08:12 AM
Another who knows all about the internal workingsof the HSE. ::)
Perhaps he could let us know
What is salaries % in other places eg 6 Cos., GB, Denmark
What is ratio of admin/medical/nursing/support staffs in HSE and other Countries.
Easier to trot put Oul clichés I suppose.
Should join the Lucyloolah party perhaps ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 21, 2015, 12:57:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 21, 2015, 11:08:12 AM
Another who knows all about the internal workingsof the HSE. ::)
Perhaps he could let us know
What is salaries % in other places eg 6 Cos., GB, Denmark
What is ratio of admin/medical/nursing/support staffs in HSE and other Countries.
Easier to trot put Oul clichés I suppose.
Should join the Lucyloolah party perhaps ;D
There are people who have worked in or with hse and gov agencies/gov dept's that also use the Internet

Your ignorance should be astounding but I'm actually not surprised.

It appears you are already a hurler on the ditch for one of the lucyloolah parties
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 21, 2015, 01:41:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 21, 2015, 10:20:57 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 21, 2015, 08:25:57 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 20, 2015, 11:38:22 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 07:07:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 07:00:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 06:53:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 03:29:28 PM
You will find that the hundred thousand thugs protesting were not just protesting about water charges. Water Charges was the final straw for these thugs and won't pay brigade. 80% of total health expenditure is spent on salaries yet none of this could be tackled.

Saying the 80% of money is spent on salaries doesn't say anything directly, hospitals without staff would be useless. And of course salaries of the people in the health service were cut, by 30% in some cases. How did that one work out http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-25pc-of-medical-consultant-posts-filled-29447254.html. As always your posts have a limited connection with reality.
Precisely. What would you expect money in the health service to be spent on, if not doctors, nurses, surgeons, porters etc.... ? Without people, there's no health service.

Should take a look at clearing out "administration" staff. Lots of incompetent pen-pushers who add no value.
Maybe, but any money saved would be needed for more doctors and nurses, so you still have that proportion of expenditure on salaries. The point is that the 80% argument means absolutely nothing.
I'd expect it would mean the world to those waiting for medical procedures, those on trolleys or those trying to get medication
Why would a random statistic mean anything to them? Is 80% staffing costs too low or too high for a health service? Without context it means nothing to anybody.
That actually wasn't what I meant. I'm sure you know this.

The point is that money saved on wages for excess pen pushers would be greatly appreciated by those in dire need of augmented medical services.
You're trying to pick an argument where there is none then, as you're not contradicting anything I said.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 21, 2015, 02:23:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 21, 2015, 01:41:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 21, 2015, 10:20:57 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 21, 2015, 08:25:57 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 20, 2015, 11:38:22 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 07:07:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 20, 2015, 07:00:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 20, 2015, 06:53:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2015, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 20, 2015, 03:29:28 PM
You will find that the hundred thousand thugs protesting were not just protesting about water charges. Water Charges was the final straw for these thugs and won't pay brigade. 80% of total health expenditure is spent on salaries yet none of this could be tackled.

Saying the 80% of money is spent on salaries doesn't say anything directly, hospitals without staff would be useless. And of course salaries of the people in the health service were cut, by 30% in some cases. How did that one work out http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-25pc-of-medical-consultant-posts-filled-29447254.html. As always your posts have a limited connection with reality.
Precisely. What would you expect money in the health service to be spent on, if not doctors, nurses, surgeons, porters etc.... ? Without people, there's no health service.

Should take a look at clearing out "administration" staff. Lots of incompetent pen-pushers who add no value.
Maybe, but any money saved would be needed for more doctors and nurses, so you still have that proportion of expenditure on salaries. The point is that the 80% argument means absolutely nothing.
I'd expect it would mean the world to those waiting for medical procedures, those on trolleys or those trying to get medication
Why would a random statistic mean anything to them? Is 80% staffing costs too low or too high for a health service? Without context it means nothing to anybody.
That actually wasn't what I meant. I'm sure you know this.

The point is that money saved on wages for excess pen pushers would be greatly appreciated by those in dire need of augmented medical services.
You're trying to pick an argument where there is none then, as you're not contradicting anything I said.
??????
I'm not trying to argue anything here.
Your statement that was 80% etc was an Irrelevent statistic etc

I'm merely making the point that 80% or whatever excessive staffing levels there are in gov departments - esp dept of health - are relevant to the people in dire need of healthcare , operations and beds instead of trolleys etc
Reduced and adequate staffing levels SHOULD mean more money for such front line services.
Not an argument but an observation- ok slightly correcting your throwaway comment but I don't think you though too much into it
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 21, 2015, 04:46:33 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 21, 2015, 02:23:43 PM
??????
I'm not trying to argue anything here.
Your statement that was 80% etc was an Irrelevent statistic etc
It is. It means absolutely nothing on its own. Unless you can tell me what proportion of expenditure should be on staff, and what proportion should be on other things (and what those other things are).

Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 21, 2015, 02:23:43 PM
I'm merely making the point that 80% or whatever excessive staffing levels there are in gov departments - esp dept of health - are relevant to the people in dire need of healthcare , operations and beds instead of trolleys etc
Firstly, we're not talking about the department of health. The 80% reference was made in relation to "total health expenditure", i.e. it includes hospitals, health centres, residential homes etc. - all those functions that provide healthcare on the front line.
Secondly, the percentage of spend on salaries in a government department doesn't tell us whether staffing levels are excessive - the actual spend in €/£ might, or the proportion of spend in admin vs frontline.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 21, 2015, 02:23:43 PM
Reduced and adequate staffing levels SHOULD mean more money for such front line services.
Seriously? So you reduce the number of people in administration. What do you do with the money you save? Buy paperclips? NO, you spend it on doctors, nurses, surgeons etc. It's still expenditure on salaries! So if you spend 80% on salaries now, you restructure to divert more money to frontline services, you still spend 80% on salaries. So unless you can tell me that the 80% is wrong in the first place, and tell us what it should be (and why), then the 80% figure means absolutely nothing on its own.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 21, 2015, 02:23:43 PM
Not an argument but an observation- ok slightly correcting your throwaway comment but I don't think you though too much into it
Clearly.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 21, 2015, 05:51:56 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 21, 2015, 04:46:33 PM
Seriously? So you reduce the number of people in administration. What do you do with the money you save? Buy paperclips? NO, you spend it on doctors, nurses, surgeons etc. It's still expenditure on salaries! So if you spend 80% on salaries now, you restructure to divert more money to frontline services, you still spend 80% on salaries. So unless you can tell me that the 80% is wrong in the first place, and tell us what it should be (and why), then the 80% figure means absolutely nothing on its own.

These aggregate figures conceal more than they reveal. Also in some cases they are dishonestly calculated, the likes of Hobbs have been known to take gross salaries and gross pension payments and add them together to get these figures, but some of the gross salary was paid by the employee as a pension contribution and this cannot be ignored if pensions are also counted.

Unless people start demanding measures that actually help, e.g. admin to frontline ratios, detailed cost per patient when compare to other countries etc then nothing will happen. But nobody does demand this, it is much easier to rant without data. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 22, 2015, 11:15:13 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 21, 2015, 04:46:33 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 21, 2015, 02:23:43 PM
??????
I'm not trying to argue anything here.
Your statement that was 80% etc was an Irrelevent statistic etc
It is. It means absolutely nothing on its own. Unless you can tell me what proportion of expenditure should be on staff, and what proportion should be on other things (and what those other things are).

Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 21, 2015, 02:23:43 PM
I'm merely making the point that 80% or whatever excessive staffing levels there are in gov departments - esp dept of health - are relevant to the people in dire need of healthcare , operations and beds instead of trolleys etc
Firstly, we're not talking about the department of health. The 80% reference was made in relation to "total health expenditure", i.e. it includes hospitals, health centres, residential homes etc. - all those functions that provide healthcare on the front line.
Secondly, the percentage of spend on salaries in a government department doesn't tell us whether staffing levels are excessive - the actual spend in €/£ might, or the proportion of spend in admin vs frontline.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 21, 2015, 02:23:43 PM
Reduced and adequate staffing levels SHOULD mean more money for such front line services.
Seriously? So you reduce the number of people in administration. What do you do with the money you save? Buy paperclips? NO, you spend it on doctors, nurses, surgeons etc. It's still expenditure on salaries! So if you spend 80% on salaries now, you restructure to divert more money to frontline services, you still spend 80% on salaries. So unless you can tell me that the 80% is wrong in the first place, and tell us what it should be (and why), then the 80% figure means absolutely nothing on its own.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 21, 2015, 02:23:43 PM
Not an argument but an observation- ok slightly correcting your throwaway comment but I don't think you though too much into it
Clearly.
Really???
Not sure you comprehend at all but ,More savings on unnecessary staff in department blocks around D2,D4 & D7 means more money can be given to frontline services in hospitals and medical centres around the country
End of
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 02:14:07 PM
Yes, and directing money to frontline services means hiring more doctors and nurses. It's still expenditure on staff. That's my point. The 80% is irrelevant.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 22, 2015, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 02:14:07 PM
Yes, and directing money to frontline services means hiring more doctors and nurses. It's still expenditure on staff. That's my point. The 80% is irrelevant.
Useful expenditure that has a direct impact upon the people that require help as opposed to useless expenditure that has no impact at all in medical help required by people.

Undoubtedly of massive interest and 80% is relevant.
Unless you can come back with some relevant statistic to prove that the extra staffing in civil service office blocks is in someway relevant . You've turned this into a mini argument due to trying to back up your ill conceived throwaway comment.
Give over your fooling no one here!
Come back to me with a decent thought out notion and we can discuss.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 22, 2015, 06:18:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 22, 2015, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 02:14:07 PM
Yes, and directing money to frontline services means hiring more doctors and nurses. It's still expenditure on staff. That's my point. The 80% is irrelevant.
Useful expenditure that has a direct impact upon the people that require help as opposed to useless expenditure that has no impact at all in medical help required by people.

Undoubtedly of massive interest and 80% is relevant.
Unless you can come back with some relevant statistic to prove that the extra staffing in civil service office blocks is in someway relevant . You've turned this into a mini argument due to trying to back up your ill conceived throwaway comment.
Give over your fooling no one here!
Come back to me with a decent thought out notion and we can discuss.

Maguire is clearly not arguing for  extra staffing in civil service office blocks, so I cannot see how this post makes sense. Perhaps it is not meant to.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trileacman on March 22, 2015, 07:14:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 22, 2015, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 02:14:07 PM
Yes, and directing money to frontline services means hiring more doctors and nurses. It's still expenditure on staff. That's my point. The 80% is irrelevant.
Useful expenditure that has a direct impact upon the people that require help as opposed to useless expenditure that has no impact at all in medical help required by people.

Undoubtedly of massive interest and 80% is relevant.
Unless you can come back with some relevant statistic to prove that the extra staffing in civil service office blocks is in someway relevant . You've turned this into a mini argument due to trying to back up your ill conceived throwaway comment.
Give over your fooling no one here!
Come back to me with a decent thought out notion and we can discuss.
Jesus quit while you still can lynchboy. You've been called out for chatting shite so quit trying to warp in into some sort of enlightened thought.

The 80% pay figure means the square root of fcuk all. We could fire 100 nurses in the morning buy 30 digital x-ray machines and get the pay % down to 70%. By your own admission this would mean fcuk all to front-line services. This 80% figure means fcuk all. It could be 85% tommorrow and it would still tell us fcuk all about the health service, it could be 75% next month and would still tell us fcuk all.

This reminds me of the thread a few weeks back about the bodybuilders training every other day/4 times a week. Just quit whilst ya can.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 08:16:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 22, 2015, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 02:14:07 PM
Yes, and directing money to frontline services means hiring more doctors and nurses. It's still expenditure on staff. That's my point. The 80% is irrelevant.
Useful expenditure that has a direct impact upon the people that require help as opposed to useless expenditure that has no impact at all in medical help required by people.

Undoubtedly of massive interest and 80% is relevant.
Unless you can come back with some relevant statistic to prove that the extra staffing in civil service office blocks is in someway relevant . You've turned this into a mini argument due to trying to back up your ill conceived throwaway comment.
Give over your fooling no one here!
Come back to me with a decent thought out notion and we can discuss.
Yes, it's clear you have won the crowd with your logic.  ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 23, 2015, 05:42:57 AM
Getting back on track with the liars....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0322/688916-no-record-kept-of-2012-irish-water-meetings/

Now why would you do something like that? Lets see who'll give us the party blurb...


oh..and RTE says there were 30,000 at the protest on Saturday. Someone from FG must have loaned them their calculator.
Impartial reporting??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 23, 2015, 12:03:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2015, 06:18:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 22, 2015, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 02:14:07 PM
Yes, and directing money to frontline services means hiring more doctors and nurses. It's still expenditure on staff. That's my point. The 80% is irrelevant.
Useful expenditure that has a direct impact upon the people that require help as opposed to useless expenditure that has no impact at all in medical help required by people.

Undoubtedly of massive interest and 80% is relevant.
Unless you can come back with some relevant statistic to prove that the extra staffing in civil service office blocks is in someway relevant . You've turned this into a mini argument due to trying to back up your ill conceived throwaway comment.
Give over your fooling no one here!
Come back to me with a decent thought out notion and we can discuss.

Maguire is clearly not arguing for  extra staffing in civil service office blocks, so I cannot see how this post makes sense. Perhaps it is not meant to.

Here's a bit more ranting and mindless rhetoric for you. Levels of mgt numbers in the HSE has increased by 11% since 2011 while front line staff levels have dropped.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/too-many-managers-1.2021282

Figures being paid to ex HSE employees which was leaked over the weekend.

http://www.thejournal.ie/hse-whisteblower-report-contracts-tendering-2006850-Mar2015/

This happened while numbers on trollies were at an all time high.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on March 23, 2015, 01:26:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2015, 05:42:57 AM
Getting back on track with the liars....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0322/688916-no-record-kept-of-2012-irish-water-meetings/

Now why would you do something like that? Lets see who'll give us the party blurb...


oh..and RTE says there were 30,000 at the protest on Saturda
y. Someone from FG must have loaned them their calculator.
Impartial reporting??
??
The Sunday Mirror put the figure at 80,000. Both estimates can't be correct.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 23, 2015, 02:01:56 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 22, 2015, 07:14:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 22, 2015, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 02:14:07 PM
Yes, and directing money to frontline services means hiring more doctors and nurses. It's still expenditure on staff. That's my point. The 80% is irrelevant.
Useful expenditure that has a direct impact upon the people that require help as opposed to useless expenditure that has no impact at all in medical help required by people.

Undoubtedly of massive interest and 80% is relevant.
Unless you can come back with some relevant statistic to prove that the extra staffing in civil service office blocks is in someway relevant . You've turned this into a mini argument due to trying to back up your ill conceived throwaway comment.
Give over your fooling no one here!
Come back to me with a decent thought out notion and we can discuss.
Jesus quit while you still can lynchboy. You've been called out for chatting shite so quit trying to warp in into some sort of enlightened thought.

The 80% pay figure means the square root of fcuk all. We could fire 100 nurses in the morning buy 30 digital x-ray machines and get the pay % down to 70%. By your own admission this would mean fcuk all to front-line services. This 80% figure means fcuk all. It could be 85% tommorrow and it would still tell us fcuk all about the health service, it could be 75% next month and would still tell us fcuk all.

This reminds me of the thread a few weeks back about the bodybuilders training every other day/4 times a week. Just quit whilst ya can.

Country is running a deficit and you're not bothered about expenditure percentages within one of the biggest spending depts in the country? How can you possibly control costs if you don't monitor them? If salaries are 70% of total spend one year and 80% the next month then alarm bells should ring especially in an organisation where there is very little if any revenue being generated. Doesn't matter what game you're in if one cost totals 80% then it needs seious attention. Before even a bed is dressed, an xray machine purchased, medication purchased, total cost is close to 80%.

Salary and wages as a percentage of total cost is not even 60% in the NHS. This is your starting point. That one figure alone would suggest that this 80% means a lot more than the "square root of eff all".
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: LeoMc on March 23, 2015, 02:09:03 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 23, 2015, 02:01:56 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 22, 2015, 07:14:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 22, 2015, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 02:14:07 PM
Yes, and directing money to frontline services means hiring more doctors and nurses. It's still expenditure on staff. That's my point. The 80% is irrelevant.
Useful expenditure that has a direct impact upon the people that require help as opposed to useless expenditure that has no impact at all in medical help required by people.

Undoubtedly of massive interest and 80% is relevant.
Unless you can come back with some relevant statistic to prove that the extra staffing in civil service office blocks is in someway relevant . You've turned this into a mini argument due to trying to back up your ill conceived throwaway comment.
Give over your fooling no one here!
Come back to me with a decent thought out notion and we can discuss.
Jesus quit while you still can lynchboy. You've been called out for chatting shite so quit trying to warp in into some sort of enlightened thought.

The 80% pay figure means the square root of fcuk all. We could fire 100 nurses in the morning buy 30 digital x-ray machines and get the pay % down to 70%. By your own admission this would mean fcuk all to front-line services. This 80% figure means fcuk all. It could be 85% tommorrow and it would still tell us fcuk all about the health service, it could be 75% next month and would still tell us fcuk all.

This reminds me of the thread a few weeks back about the bodybuilders training every other day/4 times a week. Just quit whilst ya can.

Country is running a deficit and you're not bothered about expenditure percentages within one of the biggest spending depts in the country? How can you possibly control costs if you don't monitor them? If salaries are 70% of total spend one year and 80% the next month then alarm bells should ring especially in an organisation where there is very little if any revenue being generated. Doesn't matter what game you're in if one cost totals 80% then it needs seious attention. Before even a bed is dressed, an xray machine purchased, medication purchased, total cost is close to 80%.

Salary and wages as a percentage of total cost is not even 60% in the NHS. This is your starting point. That one figure alone would suggest that this 80% means a lot more than the "square root of eff all".
On its own 80% means nothing.
Putting it up against 60%* gives it a meaning.
Showing an increase from 70%* to 80% gives it a meaning.
Giving a breakdown of that 80% (Doctors / Nurses / Direct ancillary / Admin / Managerial) would give it even more meaning.

Any sources for these 2 figures?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 23, 2015, 02:48:23 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 23, 2015, 02:09:03 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 23, 2015, 02:01:56 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 22, 2015, 07:14:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 22, 2015, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 02:14:07 PM
Yes, and directing money to frontline services means hiring more doctors and nurses. It's still expenditure on staff. That's my point. The 80% is irrelevant.
Useful expenditure that has a direct impact upon the people that require help as opposed to useless expenditure that has no impact at all in medical help required by people.

Undoubtedly of massive interest and 80% is relevant.
Unless you can come back with some relevant statistic to prove that the extra staffing in civil service office blocks is in someway relevant . You've turned this into a mini argument due to trying to back up your ill conceived throwaway comment.
Give over your fooling no one here!
Come back to me with a decent thought out notion and we can discuss.
Jesus quit while you still can lynchboy. You've been called out for chatting shite so quit trying to warp in into some sort of enlightened thought.

The 80% pay figure means the square root of fcuk all. We could fire 100 nurses in the morning buy 30 digital x-ray machines and get the pay % down to 70%. By your own admission this would mean fcuk all to front-line services. This 80% figure means fcuk all. It could be 85% tommorrow and it would still tell us fcuk all about the health service, it could be 75% next month and would still tell us fcuk all.

This reminds me of the thread a few weeks back about the bodybuilders training every other day/4 times a week. Just quit whilst ya can.

Country is running a deficit and you're not bothered about expenditure percentages within one of the biggest spending depts in the country? How can you possibly control costs if you don't monitor them? If salaries are 70% of total spend one year and 80% the next month then alarm bells should ring especially in an organisation where there is very little if any revenue being generated. Doesn't matter what game you're in if one cost totals 80% then it needs seious attention. Before even a bed is dressed, an xray machine purchased, medication purchased, total cost is close to 80%.

Salary and wages as a percentage of total cost is not even 60% in the NHS. This is your starting point. That one figure alone would suggest that this 80% means a lot more than the "square root of eff all".
On its own 80% means nothing.
Putting it up against 60%* gives it a meaning.
Showing an increase from 70%* to 80% gives it a meaning.
Giving a breakdown of that 80% (Doctors / Nurses / Direct ancillary / Admin / Managerial) would give it even more meaning.

Any sources for these 2 figures?

If one cost is answerable for 80 percent of total costs then this figure is not meaningless unless you're a financial illiterate.  When I heard it I went "wtf".
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 23, 2015, 03:45:51 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 23, 2015, 02:01:56 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 22, 2015, 07:14:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 22, 2015, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 02:14:07 PM
Yes, and directing money to frontline services means hiring more doctors and nurses. It's still expenditure on staff. That's my point. The 80% is irrelevant.
Useful expenditure that has a direct impact upon the people that require help as opposed to useless expenditure that has no impact at all in medical help required by people.

Undoubtedly of massive interest and 80% is relevant.
Unless you can come back with some relevant statistic to prove that the extra staffing in civil service office blocks is in someway relevant . You've turned this into a mini argument due to trying to back up your ill conceived throwaway comment.
Give over your fooling no one here!
Come back to me with a decent thought out notion and we can discuss.
Jesus quit while you still can lynchboy. You've been called out for chatting shite so quit trying to warp in into some sort of enlightened thought.

The 80% pay figure means the square root of fcuk all. We could fire 100 nurses in the morning buy 30 digital x-ray machines and get the pay % down to 70%. By your own admission this would mean fcuk all to front-line services. This 80% figure means fcuk all. It could be 85% tommorrow and it would still tell us fcuk all about the health service, it could be 75% next month and would still tell us fcuk all.

This reminds me of the thread a few weeks back about the bodybuilders training every other day/4 times a week. Just quit whilst ya can.

Country is running a deficit and you're not bothered about expenditure percentages within one of the biggest spending depts in the country? How can you possibly control costs if you don't monitor them? If salaries are 70% of total spend one year and 80% the next month then alarm bells should ring especially in an organisation where there is very little if any revenue being generated. Doesn't matter what game you're in if one cost totals 80% then it needs seious attention. Before even a bed is dressed, an xray machine purchased, medication purchased, total cost is close to 80%.

Salary and wages as a percentage of total cost is not even 60% in the NHS. This is your starting point. That one figure alone would suggest that this 80% means a lot more than the "square root of eff all".
Out of interest, do you have sources for the 80% for the Irish health expenditure and 60% for the UK?
And did salaries really rise from 70% to 80% of Irish health expenditure in a year? If so, again interested to see the source.

Also, you could easily reduce the 80% by sacking a few nurses and doctors and spending the money renovating the offices in the Department of Health. It wouldn't improve healthcare, but it would 'improve' your statistic (using your logic).
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 23, 2015, 03:53:25 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 23, 2015, 02:09:03 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 23, 2015, 02:01:56 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 22, 2015, 07:14:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 22, 2015, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 02:14:07 PM
Yes, and directing money to frontline services means hiring more doctors and nurses. It's still expenditure on staff. That's my point. The 80% is irrelevant.
Useful expenditure that has a direct impact upon the people that require help as opposed to useless expenditure that has no impact at all in medical help required by people.

Undoubtedly of massive interest and 80% is relevant.
Unless you can come back with some relevant statistic to prove that the extra staffing in civil service office blocks is in someway relevant . You've turned this into a mini argument due to trying to back up your ill conceived throwaway comment.
Give over your fooling no one here!
Come back to me with a decent thought out notion and we can discuss.
Jesus quit while you still can lynchboy. You've been called out for chatting shite so quit trying to warp in into some sort of enlightened thought.

The 80% pay figure means the square root of fcuk all. We could fire 100 nurses in the morning buy 30 digital x-ray machines and get the pay % down to 70%. By your own admission this would mean fcuk all to front-line services. This 80% figure means fcuk all. It could be 85% tommorrow and it would still tell us fcuk all about the health service, it could be 75% next month and would still tell us fcuk all.

This reminds me of the thread a few weeks back about the bodybuilders training every other day/4 times a week. Just quit whilst ya can.

Country is running a deficit and you're not bothered about expenditure percentages within one of the biggest spending depts in the country? How can you possibly control costs if you don't monitor them? If salaries are 70% of total spend one year and 80% the next month then alarm bells should ring especially in an organisation where there is very little if any revenue being generated. Doesn't matter what game you're in if one cost totals 80% then it needs seious attention. Before even a bed is dressed, an xray machine purchased, medication purchased, total cost is close to 80%.

Salary and wages as a percentage of total cost is not even 60% in the NHS. This is your starting point. That one figure alone would suggest that this 80% means a lot more than the "square root of eff all".
On its own 80% means nothing.
Putting it up against 60%* gives it a meaning.
Showing an increase from 70%* to 80% gives it a meaning.

Giving a breakdown of that 80% (Doctors / Nurses / Direct ancillary / Admin / Managerial) would give it even more meaning.

Any sources for these 2 figures?
Similar to my own questions. But also, we need to know:

Whether 60% of spend on salaries provides a better service. It's a comparison, but it still doesn't actually tell you which is better.
Similarly for the 70% to 80% increase - if this was as a result of negotiating better prices for medicines and using the saved money to hire extra nurses, then it's a result.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 23, 2015, 04:08:52 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 23, 2015, 03:53:25 PM
Similar to my own questions. But also, we need to know:

Whether 60% of spend on salaries provides a better service. It's a comparison, but it still doesn't actually tell you which is better.
Similarly for the 70% to 80% increase - if this was as a result of negotiating better prices for medicines and using the saved money to hire extra nurses, then it's a result.

You tried to ridicule Lynchboy and now when there are comparisons given u ask "but do they provide a better service than the HSE?" it's the HSE ffs, described as Angola by a previous minister for health. As for your ridiculous statement about possible savings in medicine being used to hire extra nurses? There are so many holes in that statement I don't know where to start but here are a few pointers. Why do Irish patients go over the border to get their medication? Because it's cheaper and by a good distance (excuse the pun). NHS get cheaper drugs. And as for using these "savings" to hire extra nurses, I've already posted a link which states that front level staff numbers have diminished as the number of middle managers has increased. All your postings are hypothetical and far far away from reality.

The proof is in the figures. NHS are able to spend 40% of costs on non salary costs compared to 20% spent by the HSE. Services and facilities would have to be better with these figures. More resources available to invest in technology, drugs, research etc.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 23, 2015, 05:23:50 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 23, 2015, 01:26:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2015, 05:42:57 AM
Getting back on track with the liars....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0322/688916-no-record-kept-of-2012-irish-water-meetings/

Now why would you do something like that? Lets see who'll give us the party blurb...


oh..and RTE says there were 30,000 at the protest on Saturda
y. Someone from FG must have loaned them their calculator.
Impartial reporting??
??
The Sunday Mirror put the figure at 80,000. Both estimates can't be correct.
Nobody mentioning the 4,570,000 or 4,520,000 who didn't partake part in Ogle's march.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 23, 2015, 05:48:22 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 22, 2015, 07:14:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 22, 2015, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 02:14:07 PM
Yes, and directing money to frontline services means hiring more doctors and nurses. It's still expenditure on staff. That's my point. The 80% is irrelevant.
Useful expenditure that has a direct impact upon the people that require help as opposed to useless expenditure that has no impact at all in medical help required by people.

Undoubtedly of massive interest and 80% is relevant.
Unless you can come back with some relevant statistic to prove that the extra staffing in civil service office blocks is in someway relevant . You've turned this into a mini argument due to trying to back up your ill conceived throwaway comment.
Give over your fooling no one here!
Come back to me with a decent thought out notion and we can discuss.
Jesus quit while you still can lynchboy. You've been called out for chatting shite so quit trying to warp in into some sort of enlightened thought.

The 80% pay figure means the square root of fcuk all. We could fire 100 nurses in the morning buy 30 digital x-ray machines and get the pay % down to 70%. By your own admission this would mean fcuk all to front-line services. This 80% figure means fcuk all. It could be 85% tommorrow and it would still tell us fcuk all about the health service, it could be 75% next month and would still tell us fcuk all.

This reminds me of the thread a few weeks back about the bodybuilders training every other day/4 times a week. Just quit whilst ya can.
??
You might want to re-write your post in order for it to make sense or be comprehensible!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 23, 2015, 06:07:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 23, 2015, 05:23:50 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 23, 2015, 01:26:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2015, 05:42:57 AM
Getting back on track with the liars....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0322/688916-no-record-kept-of-2012-irish-water-meetings/

Now why would you do something like that? Lets see who'll give us the party blurb...


oh..and RTE says there were 30,000 at the protest on Saturda
y. Someone from FG must have loaned them their calculator.
Impartial reporting??
??
The Sunday Mirror put the figure at 80,000. Both estimates can't be correct.
Nobody mentioning the 4,570,000 or 4,520,000 who didn't partake part in Ogle's march.

Maybe you can organise a Pro-Irish Water march and 4,570,000 or 4,520,000 will turn up.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2015, 06:11:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2015, 06:07:22 PM
Maybe you can organise a Pro-Irish Water march and 4,570,000 or 4,520,000 will turn up.

The pro Irish water people have jobs and things to do other than march around. They will show their preference by paying their bills and voting for responsible parties.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 23, 2015, 06:44:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2015, 06:11:19 PM
voting for responsible parties.

PMSL. Now you are on the wind-up.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 23, 2015, 07:33:20 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 23, 2015, 03:45:51 PM
Out of interest, do you have sources for the 80% for the Irish health expenditure and 60% for the UK?
Surely the figures will be distorted as the NHS pays for "free" GP care for all while the HSE pays for "free" GP care for Medical Card holders only.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 23, 2015, 08:10:04 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 23, 2015, 04:08:52 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 23, 2015, 03:53:25 PM
Similar to my own questions. But also, we need to know:

Whether 60% of spend on salaries provides a better service. It's a comparison, but it still doesn't actually tell you which is better.
Similarly for the 70% to 80% increase - if this was as a result of negotiating better prices for medicines and using the saved money to hire extra nurses, then it's a result.

You tried to ridicule Lynchboy and now when there are comparisons given u ask "but do they provide a better service than the HSE?" it's the HSE ffs, described as Angola by a previous minister for health. As for your ridiculous statement about possible savings in medicine being used to hire extra nurses? There are so many holes in that statement I don't know where to start but here are a few pointers. Why do Irish patients go over the border to get their medication? Because it's cheaper and by a good distance (excuse the pun). NHS get cheaper drugs. And as for using these "savings" to hire extra nurses, I've already posted a link which states that front level staff numbers have diminished as the number of middle managers has increased. All your postings are hypothetical and far far away from reality.

The proof is in the figures. NHS are able to spend 40% of costs on non salary costs compared to 20% spent by the HSE. Services and facilities would have to be better with these figures. More resources available to invest in technology, drugs, research etc.
Do you have the source of those stats yet?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 23, 2015, 08:31:28 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 23, 2015, 08:10:04 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 23, 2015, 04:08:52 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 23, 2015, 03:53:25 PM
Similar to my own questions. But also, we need to know:

Whether 60% of spend on salaries provides a better service. It's a comparison, but it still doesn't actually tell you which is better.
Similarly for the 70% to 80% increase - if this was as a result of negotiating better prices for medicines and using the saved money to hire extra nurses, then it's a result.

You tried to ridicule Lynchboy and now when there are comparisons given u ask "but do they provide a better service than the HSE?" it's the HSE ffs, described as Angola by a previous minister for health. As for your ridiculous statement about possible savings in medicine being used to hire extra nurses? There are so many holes in that statement I don't know where to start but here are a few pointers. Why do Irish patients go over the border to get their medication? Because it's cheaper and by a good distance (excuse the pun). NHS get cheaper drugs. And as for using these "savings" to hire extra nurses, I've already posted a link which states that front level staff numbers have diminished as the number of middle managers has increased. All your postings are hypothetical and far far away from reality.

The proof is in the figures. NHS are able to spend 40% of costs on non salary costs compared to 20% spent by the HSE. Services and facilities would have to be better with these figures. More resources available to invest in technology, drugs, research etc.
Do you have the source of those stats yet?
Google is your friend. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2015, 08:41:25 PM
These 80% type figures need a breakdown before you can draw any conclusion from them. Some things are "current" expenditure and some "capital" expenditure, these definitions can vary hugely. If the health service outsources the transport of samples instead of paying drivers then "wages" go down and "transport" goes up, without any change whatsoever in the reality of the use of people.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 23, 2015, 10:03:01 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 23, 2015, 08:31:28 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 23, 2015, 08:10:04 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 23, 2015, 04:08:52 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 23, 2015, 03:53:25 PM
Similar to my own questions. But also, we need to know:

Whether 60% of spend on salaries provides a better service. It's a comparison, but it still doesn't actually tell you which is better.
Similarly for the 70% to 80% increase - if this was as a result of negotiating better prices for medicines and using the saved money to hire extra nurses, then it's a result.

You tried to ridicule Lynchboy and now when there are comparisons given u ask "but do they provide a better service than the HSE?" it's the HSE ffs, described as Angola by a previous minister for health. As for your ridiculous statement about possible savings in medicine being used to hire extra nurses? There are so many holes in that statement I don't know where to start but here are a few pointers. Why do Irish patients go over the border to get their medication? Because it's cheaper and by a good distance (excuse the pun). NHS get cheaper drugs. And as for using these "savings" to hire extra nurses, I've already posted a link which states that front level staff numbers have diminished as the number of middle managers has increased. All your postings are hypothetical and far far away from reality.

The proof is in the figures. NHS are able to spend 40% of costs on non salary costs compared to 20% spent by the HSE. Services and facilities would have to be better with these figures. More resources available to invest in technology, drugs, research etc.
Do you have the source of those stats yet?
Google is your friend.
You're the one quoting the figures, it's not for me to prove you're not making things up.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on March 23, 2015, 10:34:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 23, 2015, 05:23:50 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 23, 2015, 01:26:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2015, 05:42:57 AM
Getting back on track with the liars....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0322/688916-no-record-kept-of-2012-irish-water-meetings/

Now why would you do something like that? Lets see who'll give us the party blurb...


oh..and RTE says there were 30,000 at the protest on Saturda
y. Someone from FG must have loaned them their calculator.
Impartial reporting??
??
The Sunday Mirror put the figure at 80,000. Both estimates can't be correct.
Nobody mentioning the 4,570,000 or 4,520,000 who didn't partake part in Ogle's march.
Not quite sure I understand what you are on about but I take it you are not suggesting that all who didn't join the march, don't agree with its aims.
If you or anyone else think that's the case, why not try to stage a pro-tax march and see how far  you get beyond the first available lamppost. ;D
Being serious and going by the latest Dept figures, 60% of the number of households liable for water tax have already signed up so it's a foregone conclusion that the remaining 40% won't at this stage.

So 40% of your 4,570,000 comes to 1,828,000.
So far so good, but...
Can you really believe stats or figures of any sort from a government source?
What about yesterday's revelation in the Sindo that a senior official in the Dept of Environment emailed a counterpart in Finance telling him that
"We have been spinning that there is sufficient land with planning permission/zoned for housing circa 46,000 housing units... but the reality is that this figure includes land not yet zoned for housing and without planning permission,"
In an email obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, a senior officer in the Department of the Environment states the "real figure" is 30,000 units. But there is also doubt over that claim after the Department admitted yesterday the 30,000 unit figure was only a "reasonably accurate" assessment.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/exposed-cabinets-spin-on-land-available-to-build-thousands-of-muchneeded-homes-31085473.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/exposed-cabinets-spin-on-land-available-to-build-thousands-of-muchneeded-homes-31085473.html)
So govt sources in this instance had, it appears, padded figures to suit their cause but at least 50%.
The only logical assumption is that it was govt policy to beef their election chances that led to this "spin.
(Anyone who thinks Enda Kenny & Co. don't lie, never heard of Roscommon  A&E)
So being generous to the pro-water tax brigade, I'd  say the number who have actually signed up would be 50% or thereabouts. The likelihood is that it is a good deal less.
So at 50%, the number who'd back Saturday's march comes to 2,285,000  at the very least.

Of the remaining 2,285,000, a large proportion signed up out of necessity rather than conviction. In other words, they signed up for practical reasons like medical necessity and not because they felt it was their moral duty to do so.
Being uber-generous to the proponents of water charges, I'd say no more than half the remainder support the aims of the marchers. That's erring on the generous I know but, in answer to the question I assume you were asking, at least 3,437,000  backed the march whilst,
at most,  1,145,666 opposed it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2015, 10:38:51 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 23, 2015, 10:34:00 PM
Of the remaining 2,285,000, a large proportion signed up out of necessity rather than conviction. In other words, they signed up for practical reasons like medical necessity and not because they felt it was their moral duty to do so.
Being uber-generous to the proponents of water charges, I'd say no more than half the remainder support the aims of the marchers. That's erring on the generous I know but, in answer to the question I assume you were asking, at least 3,437,000  backed the march whilst,
at most,  1,145,666 opposed it.


Is Bertie Ahern lurking in this forum, even the children support the march, it seems?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on March 23, 2015, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2015, 10:38:51 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 23, 2015, 10:34:00 PM
Of the remaining 2,285,000, a large proportion signed up out of necessity rather than conviction. In other words, they signed up for practical reasons like medical necessity and not because they felt it was their moral duty to do so.
Being uber-generous to the proponents of water charges, I'd say no more than half the remainder support the aims of the marchers. That's erring on the generous I know but, in answer to the question I assume you were asking, at least 3,437,000  backed the march whilst,
at most,  1,145,666 opposed it.


Is Bertie Ahern lurking in this forum, even the children support the march, it seems?
Perhaps you'd care and go back and read Rossfan's original question before making an ass of yourself yet again.

"Nobody mentioning the 4,570,000 or 4,520,000 who didn't partake part in Ogle's march."
Better ask him if that includes children. I assumed it was the total number liable for water charges and I went to great lengths to state this. I thought what I wrote was idiot--proof but I guess I need to try harder...


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 23, 2015, 11:13:27 PM
The CSO reckon there are 4.6 million people living in this State.
30,000 or 80,000 took part in an Ogle inspired march and he and others were roaring and shouting about how much support they had.
Some of them claimed it was the biggest protest ever
There were around 900,000 in the PAYE protests back in the late 70s.
Saw on the News tonight they say 1m of the 1.5m eligible public water supplied houses had registered.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 23, 2015, 11:32:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrpUUzRPPAo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrpUUzRPPAo)

Brendan Ogle, leader of the ESB unions, slags off the ESB workers as 'privileged' and 'spoilt' at a speech to Éirigí. Some to the lads were probably there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrpUUzRPPAo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrpUUzRPPAo)

Meanwhile the ESB pays him €80,000 p/a, plus expenses, even though he doesn't work for them: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/esb-paying-80000-to-union-boss-who-called-members-spoilt-26766953.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/esb-paying-80000-to-union-boss-who-called-members-spoilt-26766953.html)

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 23, 2015, 11:47:42 PM
He's trying to set up some new left wing group - probably like Lucyloolah as a vehicle to get him into the Dàil without spending his own money.
UNITE and MANDATE seem to be jumping into it too - the fools the fools the fools.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 24, 2015, 03:05:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 23, 2015, 11:47:42 PM
the fools the fools the fools.

That's enough about you and armaniac  ;)

Children, would you like something to drink or would you like to die of thirst?
I bet they'd vote for water charges.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 24, 2015, 03:33:24 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2015, 05:42:57 AM
Getting back on track with the liars....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0322/688916-no-record-kept-of-2012-irish-water-meetings/

Now why would you do something like that? Lets see who'll give us the party blurb...

Still nothing from the usual suspects on the board. Muppet, Maguire, Armaniac....you usually have something to counter with...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 24, 2015, 05:24:30 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 24, 2015, 03:33:24 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2015, 05:42:57 AM
Getting back on track with the liars....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0322/688916-no-record-kept-of-2012-irish-water-meetings/

Now why would you do something like that? Lets see who'll give us the party blurb...

Still nothing from the usual suspects on the board. Muppet, Maguire, Armaniac....you usually have something to counter with...
What, do you want people to argue with you for the sake of it?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 24, 2015, 08:36:21 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 08:16:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 22, 2015, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 02:14:07 PM
Yes, and directing money to frontline services means hiring more doctors and nurses. It's still expenditure on staff. That's my point. The 80% is irrelevant.
Useful expenditure that has a direct impact upon the people that require help as opposed to useless expenditure that has no impact at all in medical help required by people.

Undoubtedly of massive interest and 80% is relevant.
Unless you can come back with some relevant statistic to prove that the extra staffing in civil service office blocks is in someway relevant . You've turned this into a mini argument due to trying to back up your ill conceived throwaway comment.
Give over your fooling no one here!
Come back to me with a decent thought out notion and we can discuss.
Yes, it's clear you have won the crowd with your logic.  ;D
I don't think the girly clique gang intimidation tactics count for too much!
Esp when they get it arseways in a fumbled attempt of a post to seemingly ' protect' yourself!!

Cringeworthy
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on March 24, 2015, 11:15:29 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 23, 2015, 11:13:27 PM
The CSO reckon there are 4.6 million people living in this State.
30,000 or 80,000 took part in an Ogle inspired march and he and others were roaring and shouting about how much support they had.
Some of them claimed it was the biggest protest ever
There were around 900,000 in the PAYE protests back in the late 70s.
Saw on the News tonight they say 1m of the 1.5m eligible public water supplied houses had registered.
Look, me oul' buddy, I don't think you really wanted to give the impression that everyone who did not march on Saturday supported the concept of water charges but that was the clear inference.

But I felt that if you wanted to play silly buggers, then so could I. Same as always- "anything you can do, I can do better" and all that.
However, since I based what I wrote on percentages, my point still stands. I'm quite happy to stand over my methodology and state that no more than 25% of the population are happy to pay this new tax.
For starters, going my the figures you saw last night, 0.5m of the "eligible public water supplied houses" have not registered yet.

Would you agree that none of them are likely to do so in the near future?
Would you further agree that while 100% of the unregistered house owners oppose water charges, far less than 100% of those who registered support the imposition of the water tax?
Over the weekend, it emerged that the govt was cooking the figures when giving details of the amount of land available for house building.
It could be said of Enda that he does not tell unnecessary lies but I'd leave it at that.
He was first elected on the back of the greatest stoke I've ever seen pulled Irish in politics. (Remind me to tell you about that one sometime.)
After the budget he breathlessly told the nation that hard-pressed taxpayers had gone to the trouble of phoning him personally to thank him for the rise in their take home pay. They didn't know where it had come from, sez he.
When he was asked to back up his claims, the bould Enda was stuck for words, to put it mildly.
GIven the nature of Irish politics and Enda's penchant for being creative with the truth, would you accept that if the latest CSO stats were altered in any way, it would be to "pump" the number of registered owners at the expense of those who refuse to pay?
Last but by no means least, would you accept that (very) many of those who did register did not do so out of a sense of moral obligation but felt it necessary for a host of other reasons?

Tell you what, Ross, you give me a convincing counter-argument to challenge any of my points above and I'll carry the flag for the "Give Ballagh Back" brigade.
Now, can't be any fairer than that, can I? ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 24, 2015, 11:24:42 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 24, 2015, 08:36:21 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 08:16:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 22, 2015, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 22, 2015, 02:14:07 PM
Yes, and directing money to frontline services means hiring more doctors and nurses. It's still expenditure on staff. That's my point. The 80% is irrelevant.
Useful expenditure that has a direct impact upon the people that require help as opposed to useless expenditure that has no impact at all in medical help required by people.

Undoubtedly of massive interest and 80% is relevant.
Unless you can come back with some relevant statistic to prove that the extra staffing in civil service office blocks is in someway relevant . You've turned this into a mini argument due to trying to back up your ill conceived throwaway comment.
Give over your fooling no one here!
Come back to me with a decent thought out notion and we can discuss.
Yes, it's clear you have won the crowd with your logic.  ;D
I don't think the girly clique gang intimidation tactics count for too much!
Esp when they get it arseways in a fumbled attempt of a post to seemingly ' protect' yourself!!

Cringeworthy
8)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 24, 2015, 11:44:04 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 24, 2015, 11:15:29 AM
I'm quite happy to stand over my methodology and state that no more than 25% of the population are happy to pay this new tax.
25% or so of the population are paying for having piped water supply into their homes all the time ( group schemes, private wells etc). We are all VERY HAPPY that the other 75% being subsidised by us should have to put their hands in their pockets.

I suspect NONE of the other 75% are "happy" to pay the new charge - (just as nobody is happy to pay any tax. Mind you we all still want Scandanavian level public services  ;))
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 24, 2015, 12:41:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2015, 08:41:25 PM
These 80% type figures need a breakdown before you can draw any conclusion from them. Some things are "current" expenditure and some "capital" expenditure, these definitions can vary hugely. If the health service outsources the transport of samples instead of paying drivers then "wages" go down and "transport" goes up, without any change whatsoever in the reality of the use of people.

Salaries and wages are not and never will be capital costs, they are straight forward operating costs no matter what way you look at them.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 24, 2015, 12:59:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 24, 2015, 11:44:04 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 24, 2015, 11:15:29 AM
I'm quite happy to stand over my methodology and state that no more than 25% of the population are happy to pay this new tax.
25% or so of the population are paying for having piped water supply into their homes all the time ( group schemes, private wells etc). We are all VERY HAPPY that the other 75% being subsidised by us should have to put their hands in their pockets.

I suspect NONE of the other 75% are "happy" to pay the new charge - (just as nobody is happy to pay any tax. Mind you we all still want Scandanavian level public services  ;))

ha ha, the irony of a public sector worker complaining about subsidising someone else's lifestyle.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 24, 2015, 01:02:45 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 24, 2015, 12:41:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2015, 08:41:25 PM
These 80% type figures need a breakdown before you can draw any conclusion from them. Some things are "current" expenditure and some "capital" expenditure, these definitions can vary hugely. If the health service outsources the transport of samples instead of paying drivers then "wages" go down and "transport" goes up, without any change whatsoever in the reality of the use of people.

Salaries and wages are not and never will be capital costs, they are straight forward operating costs no matter what way you look at them.
Salaries can indeed be capitalised if they are part of the cost of a capital project, such as new buildings or IT systems.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 24, 2015, 01:12:47 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 24, 2015, 01:02:45 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 24, 2015, 12:41:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2015, 08:41:25 PM
These 80% type figures need a breakdown before you can draw any conclusion from them. Some things are "current" expenditure and some "capital" expenditure, these definitions can vary hugely. If the health service outsources the transport of samples instead of paying drivers then "wages" go down and "transport" goes up, without any change whatsoever in the reality of the use of people.

Salaries and wages are not and never will be capital costs, they are straight forward operating costs no matter what way you look at them.
Salaries can indeed be capitalised if they are part of the cost of a capital project, such as new buildings or IT systems.

capital costs generally involve one off investment costs like buying a machine or property. Salaries and wages in the HSE would not be classed as Capital Costs. Doctor, nurses, admin salaries are separate to the cost of an investment project. It's well you know this.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on March 24, 2015, 01:21:47 PM
Magure is right. Capital costs can include salaries if they are booked against a capital project.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on March 24, 2015, 01:33:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 23, 2015, 11:13:27 PM
The CSO reckon there are 4.6 million people living in this State.
30,000 or 80,000 took part in an Ogle inspired march and he and others were roaring and shouting about how much support they had.
Some of them claimed it was the biggest protest ever
There were around 900,000 in the PAYE protests back in the late 70s.
Saw on the News tonight they say 1m of the 1.5m eligible public water supplied houses had registered.

No problem in agreeing with all of that Ross, but it still doesn't address my point.
The vast majority of the PPI, plain people of Ireland, either can't or won't voluntarily pay this tax.
Erring on the (very) generous side, I'd say less than 25% see it as their moral obligation to pay the effin' charge.
The main reason for this resistance is a financial one. People just don't have enough to get by as it is.
I know plenty of lads on four legs and with a tail who can understand the reasons for this. At least they'd make a better shot at it than those here who rabbit on and on about peoples' moral duties and the likes.
Could anyone seriously expect the thousands of homeowners and their families to pay when they face eviction from their homes?
Here's a link to chew on.
Banks attempt to repossess 7,000-plus homes (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/banks-attempt-to-repossess-7-000-plus-homes-1.2131160?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fsocial-affairs%2Fbanks-attempt-to-repossess-7-000-plus-homes-1.2131160%3Futm_source%3Dlunchtime-digest%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Ddigests)
Mortgage holders' spokesman warns that repossessions will reach 25,000 this year

According to the same article there are close on 38,000 house owners in arrears of over 720 days.
No mistake about it we have a housing crisis of catastrophic proportions and we are talking about evictions and the return of the pickaxe and grobar brigade.
I'll take the word of The Guardian any day before I'd take Enda Kenny's.
Here's another link (http://www.theguardian.com/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2011/feb/28/ireland) you might care to consider. According to this, 10% of homeowners are now struggling to meet their repayments.
The catch is that the article is dated Monday 28 February 2011, before the present government was elected.
Whaddya think the figure is now?
Another very important factor in the inability to meet repayments is the fact than the bare minimum wage and zero hour contracts are the norm at present.
Anyone who thinks the PPI are being unpatriotic by refusing to pay charges they can't afford should really get up off his arse and go take a look at the real world.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 24, 2015, 01:38:16 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 24, 2015, 01:12:47 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 24, 2015, 01:02:45 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 24, 2015, 12:41:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2015, 08:41:25 PM
These 80% type figures need a breakdown before you can draw any conclusion from them. Some things are "current" expenditure and some "capital" expenditure, these definitions can vary hugely. If the health service outsources the transport of samples instead of paying drivers then "wages" go down and "transport" goes up, without any change whatsoever in the reality of the use of people.

Salaries and wages are not and never will be capital costs, they are straight forward operating costs no matter what way you look at them.
Salaries can indeed be capitalised if they are part of the cost of a capital project, such as new buildings or IT systems.

capital costs generally involve one off investment costs like buying a machine or property. Salaries and wages in the HSE would not be classed as Capital Costs. Doctor, nurses, admin salaries are separate to the cost of an investment project. It's well you know this.
Ask any accountant.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 24, 2015, 01:56:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 24, 2015, 05:24:30 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 24, 2015, 03:33:24 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2015, 05:42:57 AM
Getting back on track with the liars....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0322/688916-no-record-kept-of-2012-irish-water-meetings/

Now why would you do something like that? Lets see who'll give us the party blurb...

Still nothing from the usual suspects on the board. Muppet, Maguire, Armaniac....you usually have something to counter with...
What, do you want people to argue with you for the sake of it?

No, I'd actually love to hear your take on it. Surely there is a reason why this was done off the record. It's not like Phil Hogan and FG to not provide a level of transparency in their dealings (as per election promises)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 24, 2015, 02:02:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 24, 2015, 01:56:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 24, 2015, 05:24:30 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 24, 2015, 03:33:24 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2015, 05:42:57 AM
Getting back on track with the liars....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0322/688916-no-record-kept-of-2012-irish-water-meetings/

Now why would you do something like that? Lets see who'll give us the party blurb...

Still nothing from the usual suspects on the board. Muppet, Maguire, Armaniac....you usually have something to counter with...
What, do you want people to argue with you for the sake of it?

No, I'd actually love to hear your take on it. Surely there is a reason why this was done off the record. It's not like Phil Hogan and FG to not provide a level of transparency in their dealings (as per election promises)
You won't find me defending Phil Hogan or FG.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 24, 2015, 02:09:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 24, 2015, 02:02:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 24, 2015, 01:56:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 24, 2015, 05:24:30 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 24, 2015, 03:33:24 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 23, 2015, 05:42:57 AM
Getting back on track with the liars....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0322/688916-no-record-kept-of-2012-irish-water-meetings/

Now why would you do something like that? Lets see who'll give us the party blurb...

Still nothing from the usual suspects on the board. Muppet, Maguire, Armaniac....you usually have something to counter with...
What, do you want people to argue with you for the sake of it?

No, I'd actually love to hear your take on it. Surely there is a reason why this was done off the record. It's not like Phil Hogan and FG to not provide a level of transparency in their dealings (as per election promises)
You won't find me defending Phil Hogan or FG.

Fair enough but going back to my previous comment - why would such meetings be conducted in such a fashion. I'd understand if it was internal government business but not the case this time.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 24, 2015, 02:10:25 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 24, 2015, 01:21:47 PM
Magure is right. Capital costs can include salaries if they are booked against a capital project.

Not the salaries of nurses, doctors and admin staff which is what we are talking about. These are operating costs. Capital investment expenses do not include run of the mill salaries. We are not talking about Capital Investment. We are talking about day to day salaries which are operating expenses.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 24, 2015, 02:50:18 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 24, 2015, 02:10:25 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 24, 2015, 01:21:47 PM
Magure is right. Capital costs can include salaries if they are booked against a capital project.

Not the salaries of nurses, doctors and admin staff which is what we are talking about. These are operating costs. Capital investment expenses do not include run of the mill salaries. We are not talking about Capital Investment. We are talking about day to day salaries which are operating expenses.
Doctors and nurses costs unlikely to be capitalised, but admin/support staff definitely could be, depending on what they were doing. IT staff, or estates management teams could well have their salaries capitalised if they were working on capital projects.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 24, 2015, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 24, 2015, 01:33:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 23, 2015, 11:13:27 PM
The CSO reckon there are 4.6 million people living in this State.
30,000 or 80,000 took part in an Ogle inspired march and he and others were roaring and shouting about how much support they had.
Some of them claimed it was the biggest protest ever
There were around 900,000 in the PAYE protests back in the late 70s.
Saw on the News tonight they say 1m of the 1.5m eligible public water supplied houses had registered.

The vast majority of the PPI, plain people of Ireland, either can'tor won't voluntarily pay this tax. 1m households signed up would say otherwise
The main reason for this resistance is a financial one. People just don't have enough to get by as it is. Are you suggesting that the majority of Irish households cant pay €3 per week??
Could anyone seriously expect the thousands of homeowners and their families to pay when they face eviction from their homes?
Here's a link to chew on.
7-000[/b]-plus-homes-1.2131160?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fsocial-affairs%2Fbanks-attempt-to-repossess-7-000-plus-homes-1.2131160%3Futm_source%3Dlunchtime-digest%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Ddigests]Banks attempt to repossess 7,000-plus homes (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/banks-attempt-to-repossess-%5Bb)
Mortgage holders' spokesman warns that repossessions will reach 25,000 this year
According to the same article there are close on 38,000 house owners in arrears of over 720 days.
.Sad statistic and an awful way to be ...but that is 70,000 out of 2m households

Anyone who thinks the PPI are being unpatriotic by refusing to pay charges they can't afford should really get up off his arse and go take a look at the real world.
The vast majority of the "PPI" can well afford to pay €3 per week. This is one of the richest Countries in the world.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 24, 2015, 05:19:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 24, 2015, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 24, 2015, 01:33:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 23, 2015, 11:13:27 PM
The CSO reckon there are 4.6 million people living in this State.
30,000 or 80,000 took part in an Ogle inspired march and he and others were roaring and shouting about how much support they had.
Some of them claimed it was the biggest protest ever
There were around 900,000 in the PAYE protests back in the late 70s.
Saw on the News tonight they say 1m of the 1.5m eligible public water supplied houses had registered.

The vast majority of the PPI, plain people of Ireland, either can'tor won't voluntarily pay this tax. 1m households signed up would say otherwise
The main reason for this resistance is a financial one. People just don't have enough to get by as it is. Are you suggesting that the majority of Irish households cant pay €3 per week??
Could anyone seriously expect the thousands of homeowners and their families to pay when they face eviction from their homes?
Here's a link to chew on.
7-000[/b]-plus-homes-1.2131160?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fsocial-affairs%2Fbanks-attempt-to-repossess-7-000-plus-homes-1.2131160%3Futm_source%3Dlunchtime-digest%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Ddigests]Banks attempt to repossess 7,000-plus homes (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/banks-attempt-to-repossess-%5Bb)
Mortgage holders' spokesman warns that repossessions will reach 25,000 this year
According to the same article there are close on 38,000 house owners in arrears of over 720 days.
.Sad statistic and an awful way to be ...but that is 70,000 out of 2m households

Anyone who thinks the PPI are being unpatriotic by refusing to pay charges they can't afford should really get up off his arse and go take a look at the real world.
The vast majority of the "PPI" can well afford to pay €3 per week. This is one of the richest Countries in the world.

€3 per week for how long? Is there any guarantee this will always remain constant?
One of the places I've lived in averaged about €5 per day on water charges for a household.

You don't seem to get that once charges are accepted by the general population then they will be open to abuse by the company running it. You'll see that initial figure rise dramatically over time.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on March 24, 2015, 05:55:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 24, 2015, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 24, 2015, 01:33:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 23, 2015, 11:13:27 PM
The CSO reckon there are 4.6 million people living in this State.
30,000 or 80,000 took part in an Ogle inspired march and he and others were roaring and shouting about how much support they had.
Some of them claimed it was the biggest protest ever
There were around 900,000 in the PAYE protests back in the late 70s.
Saw on the News tonight they say 1m of the 1.5m eligible public water supplied houses had registered.

The vast majority of the PPI, plain people of Ireland, either can'tor won't voluntarily pay this tax. 1m households signed up would say otherwise
The main reason for this resistance is a financial one. People just don't have enough to get by as it is. Are you suggesting that the majority of Irish households cant pay €3 per week??
Could anyone seriously expect the thousands of homeowners and their families to pay when they face eviction from their homes?
Here's a link to chew on.
7-000[/b]-plus-homes-1.2131160?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fsocial-affairs%2Fbanks-attempt-to-repossess-7-000-plus-homes-1.2131160%3Futm_source%3Dlunchtime-digest%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Ddigests]Banks attempt to repossess 7,000-plus homes (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/banks-attempt-to-repossess-%5Bb)
Mortgage holders' spokesman warns that repossessions will reach 25,000 this year
According to the same article there are close on 38,000 house owners in arrears of over 720 days.
.Sad statistic and an awful way to be ...but that is 70,000 out of 2m households

Anyone who thinks the PPI are being unpatriotic by refusing to pay charges they can't afford should really get up off his arse and go take a look at the real world.
The vast majority of the "PPI" can well afford to pay €3 per week. This is one of the richest Countries in the world.
Geez, Ross you never fail to come up with something new! But I'm struggling to follow your logic in places, if you know what I mean.
You've already stated that 66% of Households have signed up for the new tax, which would mean we have 1.5m households in the country. But further on you state "Sad statistic and an awful way to be ...but that is 70,000 out of 2m households."

Where did the extra .5m appear from? Come to think of it, where did the 70,000 come from either? What about the number who were in difficulties for periods less than 720 days?
No offence to you, me good friend but to state something such as.."Sad statistic and an awful way to be ...but that is 70,000 out of 2m households"  is a little biteen disingenuous because the number of houses that are mortgaged are considerably less than 2m. The percentage of distressed mortgage holders is considerably higher than you believe.
Don't want to be too hard on you but your first statement is an unwarranted assumption,
1m households signed up would say otherwise
Are you seriously suggesting than every single one of the who signed up did so because they felt morally obliged to do so?
If that's the case, how come it took so long to get the numbers up to this level? Did you see any signs of people tripping over themselves n their rush to sign on the proverbial dotted line?
The vast majority of the "PPI" can well afford to pay €3 per week. This is one of the richest Countries in the world.
Two statements there that you've made no effort to back up.
I'm told the USA is the richest country in the world but 20% of the people hold 80% of the wealth.
Is the wealth in this county distributed equally or indeed equitably?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 24, 2015, 06:32:38 PM
1.5m who have a public taxpayer funded water supply and then there are circa half million on group schemes or wells or ha e no piped water.
Simple.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on March 24, 2015, 10:59:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 24, 2015, 06:32:38 PM
1.5m who have a public taxpayer funded water supply and then there are circa half million on group schemes or wells or ha e no piped water.
Simple.
Fair play Ross, that clears that issue up, but don't forget the other half dozen or so, won't you? :D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 25, 2015, 05:35:57 AM
While the government are now going to blanket bill everyone and their dog the following comes from RTE (state sponsored mouthpiece) ....

"Only last week the Minister signed a statutory order enabling Irish Water to verify customer addresses with An Post and housing bodies that supply Social Housing.

It can also get information to develop its household database from Local authorities, the Private Residential Tenancies Board, the Property Services Regulatory Authority, the Local Government Management Agency, the Revenue Commissioners, and the Minister for Social Protection. "

Statutory order to hand over people addresses to a third party?
Anyone know how legal it is to hand over information from revenue commissioners to a third party.

Something seriously wrong with this. Why don't they just microchip us now.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 25, 2015, 11:23:56 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 24, 2015, 10:59:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 24, 2015, 06:32:38 PM
1.5m who have a public taxpayer funded water supply and then there are circa half million on group schemes or wells or ha e no piped water.
Simple.
Fair play Ross, that clears that issue up, but don't forget the other half dozen or so, won't you? :D
What were they?
You saying that people don't willingly pay taxes?
That some unknown people shouldn't be saying that there's a moral obligation on people to pay towards their subsidised public water supply?
That people in mortgage arrears shouldn't pay towards their subsidised etc?
If the poor devils in mortgage trouble had only a €3 a week water bill to worry about they'd be delighted.

Time the Govt ( using taxpayer's money of course  ;)) stepped in to sort out people in mortgage trouble with their only house i.e the one they live in.
Instead of cutting the top rate of tax for well heeled FG voters - how about buying those troubled houses from the Banks/Bldg Societies at current market value and rent it to the occupiers as Social Housing.
It would keep the people in their house, get rid of a load of trouble for the Bank/BS, leave a few € in the pockets of the occupiers and leave the Public purse with an asset.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on March 25, 2015, 07:07:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 25, 2015, 11:23:56 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 24, 2015, 10:59:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 24, 2015, 06:32:38 PM
1.5m who have a public taxpayer funded water supply and then there are circa half million on group schemes or wells or ha e no piped water.
Simple.
Fair play Ross, that clears that issue up, but don't forget the other half dozen or so, won't you? :D
What were they?
You saying that people don't willingly pay taxes?
That some unknown people shouldn't be saying that there's a moral obligation on people to pay towards their subsidised public water supply?
That people in mortgage arrears shouldn't pay towards their subsidised etc?
If the poor devils in mortgage trouble had only a €3 a week water bill to worry about they'd be delighted.

Time the Govt ( using taxpayer's money of course  ;)) stepped in to sort out people in mortgage trouble with their only house i.e the one they live in.
Instead of cutting the top rate of tax for well heeled FG voters - how about buying those troubled houses from the Banks/Bldg Societies at current market value and rent it to the occupiers as Social Housing.
It would keep the people in their house, get rid of a load of trouble for the Bank/BS, leave a few € in the pockets of the occupiers and leave the Public purse with an asset.
That's the most sensible idea I've heard in a long time. Fair play Ross, you get it right sometimes! ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 25, 2015, 08:03:31 PM
If I was an arrogant so and so instead of a meek shy modest Rosman I'd say  I get right nearly always 8)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on March 25, 2015, 10:03:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 25, 2015, 08:03:31 PM
If I was an arrogant so and so instead of a meek shy modest Rosman I'd say  I get right nearly always 8)

Except for Ballagh. Maigheo go deo! Yeeehaw! ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 25, 2015, 10:47:19 PM
Ballagh GAA have got it spectacularly wrong for 116 years
The fools, the fools, the fools......
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 26, 2015, 03:36:56 AM
There are no depths the labour party and FG won't sink to now. Accusing RTE of bias? Surely not

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0325/689771-irish-water-rte/



Now if you think that's unbelievable the comment from this eejit Catherine Byrne TD takes the cake.

"She spoke of the constituents who want to pay and cited the example of elderly people in her constituency who have said they want to pay the charge."

Yes of course they do. They can't wait to. and to quote Wayne's World - "monkeys might fly out of my butt"
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 26, 2015, 08:34:10 AM
More bad news for Hunt, Fox, Lynch etc -I'm hearing FG up 5 and Lab up 1 in latest poll.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 26, 2015, 12:16:08 PM
that gravy train gonna keep on rollin, strap in tight Ross, wouldn't want u falling off.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 26, 2015, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 26, 2015, 12:16:08 PM
that gravy train gonna keep on rollin, strap in tight Ross, wouldn't want u falling off.
The gravy train will always roll, you just want someone else on board.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 26, 2015, 02:48:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 26, 2015, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 26, 2015, 12:16:08 PM
that gravy train gonna keep on rollin, strap in tight Ross, wouldn't want u falling off.
The gravy train will always roll, you just want someone else on board.
You couldn't be farther from the truth. I have enough to feed my family and pay my bills and I'm happy with my lot. What does vex me is whinging public sector workers giving it the "poor me". Country is in the shit and the public sector is one of the main reasons. No accountability,  no reform, very little pay cuts and no job losses. And now they want pay rises. Poor them indeed.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 26, 2015, 02:55:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 26, 2015, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 26, 2015, 12:16:08 PM
that gravy train gonna keep on rollin, strap in tight Ross, wouldn't want u falling off.
The gravy train will always roll, you just want someone else on board.

Hunt is the man who wants free privatised water ;D
Fox and Lynch think SF will abolish all taxes and provide free public services.
Meanwhile SF cover up and keep sexual abuse in house.
Micky Martin says F F won't join a Coalition with FG or SF but expects to be Taoiseach.
Then there are the Loony loolah left and the Lucyloolah right.
No wonder FG/Lab are rising.
The Greens will probably have a great General Election too as they will make such perfect sense compared to the latter two sets of clowns.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 26, 2015, 03:22:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 26, 2015, 02:55:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 26, 2015, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 26, 2015, 12:16:08 PM
that gravy train gonna keep on rollin, strap in tight Ross, wouldn't want u falling off.
The gravy train will always roll, you just want someone else on board.

Hunt is the man who wants free privatised water ;D
Fox and Lynch think SF will abolish all taxes and provide free public services.
Meanwhile SF cover up and keep sexual abuse in house.
Micky Martin says F F won't join a Coalition with FG or SF but expects to be Taoiseach.
Then there are the Loony loolah left and the Lucyloolah right.
No wonder FG/Lab are rising.
The Greens will probably have a great General Election too as they will make such perfect sense compared to the latter two sets of clowns.

you're one to be throwing stones, a right wing union rep.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 26, 2015, 03:37:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 26, 2015, 02:55:02 PM
Fox and Lynch think SF will abolish all taxes and provide free public services.

Where did I say that?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on March 27, 2015, 10:06:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 26, 2015, 08:34:10 AM
More bad news for Hunt, Fox, Lynch etc -I'm hearing FG up 5 and Lab up 1 in latest poll.

Ross, it's kinda obvious that you're a (primrose and ) blueshirt supporter.
But you seem to be out of step with the majority of Roscommon folks I know.
For most of them, the fact that Kenny broke his pre-election pledge to keep the A&E department at the local hospital as soon as he got into power, was unforgivable
God knows there's little by way of a credible alternative but it seems you don't share the majority's opinion of Enda and his government.
Is it just the fact  that you're a wee biteen off-balance or do you see something in FG policies that the rest of your fellow-countrymen cannot.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 27, 2015, 10:31:23 AM
I am not a FG supporter. My heritage would be FF :-[, my inclination Social Democrat.
No matter who was in the last 4 years would have been implementing awfulness after the FF/McCreevy/PD Builder Banker running wild era.
As for Election promises - I stopped believing them with the tooth fairy.
The comment you quoted was as it reads and nothing else.
Next election...... A vote for Naughten is a vote for FG in effect, a vote for Fitzmaurice is a waste in the real world,I won't vote FF or SF, a vote for John Kelly while a decent man and the nearest to my views is also a waste as he won't get near a seat..... So what do I do???
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 27, 2015, 11:27:25 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 26, 2015, 02:48:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 26, 2015, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 26, 2015, 12:16:08 PM
that gravy train gonna keep on rollin, strap in tight Ross, wouldn't want u falling off.
The gravy train will always roll, you just want someone else on board.
You couldn't be farther from the truth. I have enough to feed my family and pay my bills and I'm happy with my lot. What does vex me is whinging public sector workers giving it the "poor me". Country is in the shit and the public sector is one of the main reasons. No accountability,  no reform, very little pay cuts and no job losses. And now they want pay rises. Poor them indeed.

Define "very little"
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 27, 2015, 12:07:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2015, 11:27:25 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 26, 2015, 02:48:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 26, 2015, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 26, 2015, 12:16:08 PM
that gravy train gonna keep on rollin, strap in tight Ross, wouldn't want u falling off.
The gravy train will always roll, you just want someone else on board.
You couldn't be farther from the truth. I have enough to feed my family and pay my bills and I'm happy with my lot. What does vex me is whinging public sector workers giving it the "poor me". Country is in the shit and the public sector is one of the main reasons. No accountability,  no reform, very little pay cuts and no job losses. And now they want pay rises. Poor them indeed.

Define "very little"
What an ill informed incorrect bigoted anti worker anti public service neo liberal right wing rant from Mi Kehunt.
Not surprised as he had a problem last week with a worker being entitled to a lunch break.
I thought we had left 1913 behind us but there are still a few William Martin Murphys around who still can't get their heads around the idea that working people both Private and Public Sectors should be paid more than a pittance or indeed anything at all.

Little pay cuts indeed - average cut 7.5% ( dressed up as a "Pension Levy") throught deductions 2009 - average 7.5% in pay cuts to rates 1/1/2010 in addition to the across the board cuts  of reduced PAYE credits, The Universal Social Charge and the imposition of PRSI on the first €127 per week.
Then there were the reductions in money, terms and conditions of Croke Park and Haddington Road Agreements.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 27, 2015, 12:51:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 27, 2015, 12:07:11 PM
Little pay cuts indeed - average cut 7.5% ( dressed up as a "Pension Levy") throught deductions 2009 - average 7.5% in pay cuts to rates 1/1/2010 in addition to the across the board cuts  of reduced PAYE credits, The Universal Social Charge and the imposition of PRSI on the first €127 per week.
Then there were the reductions in money, terms and conditions of Croke Park and Haddington Road Agreements.

Presumably Mr Hunt will be bringing forward real figures to show the level of cuts involved and comparing them with actual figures for other sectors.
Presumably also Gerry Adams will also come out with a detailed account of his life in the IRA, this seems more likely than the previous.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on March 27, 2015, 01:09:02 PM
For once I somewhat agree with mike

Hearing the pension levy described as a "cut" is laughable – it's called contributing part of your defined benefit pension. Something any private sector would be glad to do if he were offered such a deal.

There have been fairly limited (and that's being generous) reforms of how the public sector operates - there's no method of appraisal whereby the best workers are rewarded / promoted and the laggards are out the door. That's frustrating for private sector employees who have spent the last few years under the very real threat of losing their job – something no public sector worker has had to face. It must also be frustrating for the bright / diligent workers in the public sector who get no reward for doing their job well yet get labelled as being as useless as the office layabout. That lack of change is almost entirely down to the unions and the inertia of the govt to challenge the public sector unions.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 27, 2015, 03:35:04 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 27, 2015, 01:09:02 PM

Hearing the pension levy described as a "cut" is laughable – it's called contributing part of your defined benefit pension. .
That lack of change is almost entirely down to the unions and the inertia of the govt to challenge the public sector unions.
Pension "levy" is a mechanism to save the public purse some money( as one of the Head honchos of the Dept of Finance told me -I used to have friends in high places  :D). None of the saving goes to any pension fund.
Public service pensions are paid out of the Superannuation monies deducted from current public service Employees.
If I got €450 last week and €425 this week - that's a €25 cut no matter what it might be termed officially.
It is not  "the public sector unions" job to reform the public service - their job is to represent their members' interests.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on March 27, 2015, 06:46:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 27, 2015, 03:35:04 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 27, 2015, 01:09:02 PM

Hearing the pension levy described as a "cut" is laughable – it's called contributing part of your defined benefit pension. .
That lack of change is almost entirely down to the unions and the inertia of the govt to challenge the public sector unions.
Pension "levy" is a mechanism to save the public purse some money( as one of the Head honchos of the Dept of Finance told me -I used to have friends in high places  :D). None of the saving goes to any pension fund.
Public service pensions are paid out of the Superannuation monies deducted from current public service Employees.
If I got €450 last week and €425 this week - that's a €25 cut no matter what it might be termed officially.
It is not  "the public sector unions" job to reform the public service - their job is to represent their members' interests.

Do those superannuation monies cover the entire cost of public service pensions?

I think the unions do their members a disservice by protecting the do-nothings at the expense of the rest of the public servants who get paycuts instead of getting a more streamlined place to work. Of course, it's in the unions interests to keep numbers up, it keeps the dues coming in
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 27, 2015, 07:15:14 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 27, 2015, 01:09:02 PM
There have been fairly limited (and that's being generous) reforms of how the public sector operates - there's no method of appraisal whereby the best workers are rewarded / promoted and the laggards are out the door. That's frustrating for private sector employees who have spent the last few years under the very real threat of losing their job – something no public sector worker has had to face. It must also be frustrating for the bright / diligent workers in the public sector who get no reward for doing their job well yet get labelled as being as useless as the office layabout. That lack of change is almost entirely down to the unions and the inertia of the govt to challenge the public sector unions.

Wasters are obviously most active in calling on their union to do things, other people are too busy working. But as long as people keep electing wasters to direct all of this there won't be much improvement.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 27, 2015, 08:45:20 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 27, 2015, 06:46:51 PM

Do those superannuation monies cover the entire cost of public service pensions?


Each public body pays their own I believe. Make more sense if it was all centralised.
20 odd years ago I was a temporary clerical officer in the payroll office of a Council. In that particular body then the contributions were about twice the pensions.
I'm not in an office role in my current organisation so don't know the current situation.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 27, 2015, 08:46:51 PM
Rossfan doesn't think he should contribute to his defined benefit pension.  Shouldn't be surprised. It's ok rossfan let real paye workers contribute for you.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 27, 2015, 08:54:51 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 27, 2015, 08:46:51 PM
Rossfan doesn't think he should contribute to his defined benefit pension. 

(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy236/GauchGauch/The%20Simpsons/PDVD_056.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on March 27, 2015, 08:57:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 27, 2015, 08:45:20 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 27, 2015, 06:46:51 PM

Do those superannuation monies cover the entire cost of public service pensions?


Each public body pays their own I believe. Make more sense if it was all centralised.
20 odd years ago I was a temporary clerical officer in the payroll office of a Council. In that particular body then the contributions were about twice the pensions.
I'm not in an office role in my current organisation so don't know the current situation.

Tbh, I don't doubt what you're saying about what the story was 20 years ago but the cost of DB pensions was massively underestimated and with people living longer, the hole is only getting bigger.

The govt should do away with DB pensions, almost every other sector has
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 11:32:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 26, 2015, 03:37:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 26, 2015, 02:55:02 PM
Fox and Lynch think SF will abolish all taxes and provide free public services.

Where did I say that?
You think that's bad!
I'm at the opposite end of political spectrum to you I believe - yet that amadam makes that above statement on my behalf?
Not sure how he/she Enid blyton'ed that one!!

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 28, 2015, 01:17:52 PM
Some Independents pressing ahead to forge an alliance -
http://www.shannonside.ie/news/local-politicians-among-those-attending-independent-alliance-meeting-today/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 28, 2015, 03:46:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 11:32:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 26, 2015, 03:37:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 26, 2015, 02:55:02 PM
Fox and Lynch think SF will abolish all taxes and provide free public services.

Where did I say that?
You think that's bad!
I'm at the opposite end of political spectrum to you I believe - yet that amadam makes that above statement on my behalf?
Not sure how he/she Enid blyton'ed that one!!

What else do you expect from a
(http://images4.naptol.com/usr/local/csp/staticContent/EnlgImg250x250/1-Mark-Peters-Premium-Blue-Shirt.jpg)

You mean Enda Blyton surely? Seems like this closet case is a big fan.

There's a few Noddys in the government benches.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 28, 2015, 06:15:41 PM
More bad news for the 3 bucks in the latest Red C poll - FG and Lab both up 3, FF no change but SF down 4
As the Church found out Irish people don't like organisations which cover up sexual abuse.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Kidder81 on March 28, 2015, 07:32:53 PM
As Rossfan says

Latest RedC

FG 27 (+3) (+6 since Dec)
Lab 10 (+3) (+4 since Dec)
FF 18 (=)
SF 17 (-4) (-7 since Dec)
Ind/Oth 28 (-2).
[Ind 24, Grn 2, Ren 2]
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on March 28, 2015, 07:48:49 PM
How come the greens & renua are quoted individually whereas the socialist party (who actually have a TD) and whatever others parties aren't?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 28, 2015, 08:47:04 PM
Greens and relucyloo are middle class ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on March 28, 2015, 08:59:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 28, 2015, 07:32:53 PM
As Rossfan says

Latest RedC

FG 27 (+3) (+6 since Dec)
Lab 10 (+3) (+4 since Dec)
FF 18 (=)
SF 17 (-4) (-7 since Dec)
Ind/Oth 28 (-2).
[Ind 24, Grn 2, Ren 2]

The numbers won't be pretty for the Shinners when their internal child abusers report is leaked closer to the GE
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 08:59:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 28, 2015, 07:32:53 PM
As Rossfan says

Latest RedC

FG 27 (+3) (+6 since Dec)
Lab 10 (+3) (+4 since Dec)
FF 18 (=)
SF 17 (-4) (-7 since Dec)
Ind/Oth 28 (-2).
[Ind 24, Grn 2, Ren 2]

The numbers won't be pretty for the Shinners when their internal child abusers report is leaked closer to the GE
Prev polls imo were incorrect
No way sf will be above 19% come election time

I think people will see a bit of a ff comeback as they have some v good candidates around the country. Think ff need to replace Micheal Martin though

The child abusers you mention - were they sf candidates/ people ?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on March 28, 2015, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 08:59:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 28, 2015, 07:32:53 PM
As Rossfan says

Latest RedC

FG 27 (+3) (+6 since Dec)
Lab 10 (+3) (+4 since Dec)
FF 18 (=)
SF 17 (-4) (-7 since Dec)
Ind/Oth 28 (-2).
[Ind 24, Grn 2, Ren 2]

The numbers won't be pretty for the Shinners when their internal child abusers report is leaked closer to the GE
Prev polls imo were incorrect
No way sf will be above 19% come election time

I think people will see a bit of a ff comeback as they have some v good candidates around the country. Think ff need to replace Micheal Martin though

The child abusers you mention - were they sf candidates/ people ?

I'm referring to the internal SF report - the exact breakdown of how many were terrorists/candidates will be known when our Gerry comes clean or when the report is made public
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 11:41:40 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 08:59:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 28, 2015, 07:32:53 PM
As Rossfan says

Latest RedC

FG 27 (+3) (+6 since Dec)
Lab 10 (+3) (+4 since Dec)
FF 18 (=)
SF 17 (-4) (-7 since Dec)
Ind/Oth 28 (-2).
[Ind 24, Grn 2, Ren 2]

The numbers won't be pretty for the Shinners when their internal child abusers report is leaked closer to the GE
Prev polls imo were incorrect
No way sf will be above 19% come election time

I think people will see a bit of a ff comeback as they have some v good candidates around the country. Think ff need to replace Micheal Martin though

The child abusers you mention - were they sf candidates/ people ?

I'm referring to the internal SF report - the exact breakdown of how many were terrorists/candidates will be known when our Gerry comes clean or when the report is made public
Right so

I thought you'd heard names or something

Either way I'd doubt if any current sf people are involved
This is ( if any way true) IRA stuff fcuk all to do with sf.

As I heard in the talk show on the radio during the week , none of this is affecting sf vote as firstly it's f**k all to do with them
And secondly their voters will vote for them irrespective of all these stories that crop up

Sf are imo as bad as fg and ff
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 29, 2015, 12:47:15 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 11:41:40 PM
Sf are imo as bad as fg and ff

That's the point, people might like to give the present government a kicking for being an unprincipled shower of self serving politicians, but the alternatives are also an unprincipled shower of self serving politicians. The difference is that the economy is now firing on all cylinders according to the IMF and people are inclined not to risk breaking it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 29, 2015, 06:11:06 AM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 08:59:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 28, 2015, 07:32:53 PM
As Rossfan says

Latest RedC

FG 27 (+3) (+6 since Dec)
Lab 10 (+3) (+4 since Dec)
FF 18 (=)
SF 17 (-4) (-7 since Dec)
Ind/Oth 28 (-2).
[Ind 24, Grn 2, Ren 2]

The numbers won't be pretty for the Shinners when their internal child abusers report is leaked closer to the GE
Prev polls imo were incorrect
No way sf will be above 19% come election time

I think people will see a bit of a ff comeback as they have some v good candidates around the country. Think ff need to replace Micheal Martin though

The child abusers you mention - were they sf candidates/ people ?

I'm referring to the internal SF report - the exact breakdown of how many were terrorists/candidates will be known when our Gerry comes clean or when the report is made public

That sort of language only usually comes from orangies or the Michael Collins tribute lads
(http://i1.wp.com/www.theirishstory.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ODuffy-Blueshisrts.jpg?resize=266%2C189)

Which one are you heffo?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on March 29, 2015, 09:58:54 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 29, 2015, 06:11:06 AM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 08:59:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 28, 2015, 07:32:53 PM
As Rossfan says

Latest RedC

FG 27 (+3) (+6 since Dec)
Lab 10 (+3) (+4 since Dec)
FF 18 (=)
SF 17 (-4) (-7 since Dec)
Ind/Oth 28 (-2).
[Ind 24, Grn 2, Ren 2]

The numbers won't be pretty for the Shinners when their internal child abusers report is leaked closer to the GE
Prev polls imo were incorrect
No way sf will be above 19% come election time

I think people will see a bit of a ff comeback as they have some v good candidates around the country. Think ff need to replace Micheal Martin though

The child abusers you mention - were they sf candidates/ people ?

I'm referring to the internal SF report - the exact breakdown of how many were terrorists/candidates will be known when our Gerry comes clean or when the report is made public

That sort of language only usually comes from orangies or the Michael Collins tribute lads
(http://i1.wp.com/www.theirishstory.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ODuffy-Blueshisrts.jpg?resize=266%2C189)

Which one are you heffo?

I'm apolitical.

Anti-child rapist though - especially those who cover it up and help move the abuser elsewhere.

Feel that way whether the person hiding that information from the Guards is pushing a water or a wealth tax.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 29, 2015, 10:46:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 29, 2015, 12:47:15 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 11:41:40 PM
Sf are imo as bad as fg and ff

That's the point, people might like to give the present government a kicking for being an unprincipled shower of self serving politicians, but the alternatives are also an unprincipled shower of self serving politicians. The difference is that the economy is now firing on all cylinders according to the IMF and people are inclined not to risk breaking it.
Agree with most of that.
Economy rectified itself imo with very little influence from gov.
Sure it was the gov ( ff supported by all the others) that caused a sub prime problem become a national economic disaster bailing out the banks.
Anyhow
There are still a lot of people in trouble who would want a gov change . ThTs why sf will get votes.

If ff get a good candidate in my area again I would like to consider them again. Not voting for fg or lab again after they are just making a mockery of things and trying to take credit for stuff they shouldn't and are thinking their lies on other matters are fooling us.

Ff need rid of micheal Martin ( fg need rid of moany Joan )

But yes they are all much the same



Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 29, 2015, 04:13:04 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 08:59:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 28, 2015, 07:32:53 PM
As Rossfan says

Latest RedC

FG 27 (+3) (+6 since Dec)
Lab 10 (+3) (+4 since Dec)
FF 18 (=)
SF 17 (-4) (-7 since Dec)
Ind/Oth 28 (-2).
[Ind 24, Grn 2, Ren 2]

The numbers won't be pretty for the Shinners when their internal child abusers report is leaked closer to the GE
Prev polls imo were incorrect
No way sf will be above 19% come election time

I think people will see a bit of a ff comeback as they have some v good candidates around the country. Think ff need to replace Micheal Martin though

The child abusers you mention - were they sf candidates/ people ?

I'm referring to the internal SF report - the exact breakdown of how many were terrorists/candidates will be known when our Gerry comes clean or when the report is made public

If SF had nothing to do with it, why would there be an internal SF report in the first place?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 29, 2015, 06:56:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 29, 2015, 04:13:04 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 08:59:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 28, 2015, 07:32:53 PM
As Rossfan says

Latest RedC

FG 27 (+3) (+6 since Dec)
Lab 10 (+3) (+4 since Dec)
FF 18 (=)
SF 17 (-4) (-7 since Dec)
Ind/Oth 28 (-2).
[Ind 24, Grn 2, Ren 2]

The numbers won't be pretty for the Shinners when their internal child abusers report is leaked closer to the GE
Prev polls imo were incorrect
No way sf will be above 19% come election time

I think people will see a bit of a ff comeback as they have some v good candidates around the country. Think ff need to replace Micheal Martin though

The child abusers you mention - were they sf candidates/ people ?

I'm referring to the internal SF report - the exact breakdown of how many were terrorists/candidates will be known when our Gerry comes clean or when the report is made public

If SF had nothing to do with it, why would there be an internal SF report in the first place?
Sure didn't micheal Martin and Inda kinny knew about and met victims of sexual abuse as long as a couple of years ago ( in the case of Maria Cahill I think her name was) so I expect they all had internal meetings about these. But no one seemed to do a fecking thing until the media took an interest and they were all about them then!
Feck all the political parties can do as this is something only the gardai can deal with
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on March 29, 2015, 07:00:07 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 29, 2015, 06:56:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 29, 2015, 04:13:04 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 08:59:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 28, 2015, 07:32:53 PM
As Rossfan says

Latest RedC

FG 27 (+3) (+6 since Dec)
Lab 10 (+3) (+4 since Dec)
FF 18 (=)
SF 17 (-4) (-7 since Dec)
Ind/Oth 28 (-2).
[Ind 24, Grn 2, Ren 2]

The numbers won't be pretty for the Shinners when their internal child abusers report is leaked closer to the GE
Prev polls imo were incorrect
No way sf will be above 19% come election time

I think people will see a bit of a ff comeback as they have some v good candidates around the country. Think ff need to replace Micheal Martin though

The child abusers you mention - were they sf candidates/ people ?

I'm referring to the internal SF report - the exact breakdown of how many were terrorists/candidates will be known when our Gerry comes clean or when the report is made public

If SF had nothing to do with it, why would there be an internal SF report in the first place?
Sure didn't micheal Martin and Inda kinny knew about and met victims of sexual abuse as long as a couple of years ago ( in the case of Maria Cahill I think her name was) so I expect they all had internal meetings about these. But no one seemed to do a fecking thing until the media took an interest and they were all about them then!
Feck all the political parties can do as this is something only the gardai can deal with

Surely "if" SF have a dossier on child abusers that they facilitated with moves etc then they'd want to deal with the issue way ahead of the GE - if it's not dealt with then and the Indo leak it then we can forget about SF having any role in the next Govt.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 29, 2015, 08:56:08 PM
All the people on this forum who were stridently castigating Cardinal Brady for his role in keeping abuse " in house" are extremely silent on the SF leader and party doing the same. ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 29, 2015, 09:00:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2015, 07:00:07 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 29, 2015, 06:56:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 29, 2015, 04:13:04 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 08:59:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 28, 2015, 07:32:53 PM
As Rossfan says

Latest RedC

FG 27 (+3) (+6 since Dec)
Lab 10 (+3) (+4 since Dec)
FF 18 (=)
SF 17 (-4) (-7 since Dec)
Ind/Oth 28 (-2).
[Ind 24, Grn 2, Ren 2]

The numbers won't be pretty for the Shinners when their internal child abusers report is leaked closer to the GE
Prev polls imo were incorrect
No way sf will be above 19% come election time

I think people will see a bit of a ff comeback as they have some v good candidates around the country. Think ff need to replace Micheal Martin though

The child abusers you mention - were they sf candidates/ people ?

I'm referring to the internal SF report - the exact breakdown of how many were terrorists/candidates will be known when our Gerry comes clean or when the report is made public

If SF had nothing to do with it, why would there be an internal SF report in the first place?
Sure didn't micheal Martin and Inda kinny knew about and met victims of sexual abuse as long as a couple of years ago ( in the case of Maria Cahill I think her name was) so I expect they all had internal meetings about these. But no one seemed to do a fecking thing until the media took an interest and they were all about them then!
Feck all the political parties can do as this is something only the gardai can deal with

Surely "if" SF have a dossier on child abusers that they facilitated with moves etc then they'd want to deal with the issue way ahead of the GE - if it's not dealt with then and the Indo leak it then we can forget about SF having any role in the next Govt.
Sf have no chance of getting into gov

The gardai are the people to be dealing with this
Not sf, ff , fg
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on March 29, 2015, 09:09:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 29, 2015, 09:00:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2015, 07:00:07 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 29, 2015, 06:56:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 29, 2015, 04:13:04 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 08:59:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 28, 2015, 07:32:53 PM
As Rossfan says

Latest RedC

FG 27 (+3) (+6 since Dec)
Lab 10 (+3) (+4 since Dec)
FF 18 (=)
SF 17 (-4) (-7 since Dec)
Ind/Oth 28 (-2).
[Ind 24, Grn 2, Ren 2]

The numbers won't be pretty for the Shinners when their internal child abusers report is leaked closer to the GE
Prev polls imo were incorrect
No way sf will be above 19% come election time

I think people will see a bit of a ff comeback as they have some v good candidates around the country. Think ff need to replace Micheal Martin though

The child abusers you mention - were they sf candidates/ people ?

I'm referring to the internal SF report - the exact breakdown of how many were terrorists/candidates will be known when our Gerry comes clean or when the report is made public

If SF had nothing to do with it, why would there be an internal SF report in the first place?
Sure didn't micheal Martin and Inda kinny knew about and met victims of sexual abuse as long as a couple of years ago ( in the case of Maria Cahill I think her name was) so I expect they all had internal meetings about these. But no one seemed to do a fecking thing until the media took an interest and they were all about them then!
Feck all the political parties can do as this is something only the gardai can deal with

Surely "if" SF have a dossier on child abusers that they facilitated with moves etc then they'd want to deal with the issue way ahead of the GE - if it's not dealt with then and the Indo leak it then we can forget about SF having any role in the next Govt.
Sf have no chance of getting into gov

The gardai are the people to be dealing with this
Not sf, ff , fg

If any of those three parties have a detailed dossier on child abuse by their members and facilitated by the higher echelons then  they should be handing it over now to the guards before it's leaked.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on March 29, 2015, 11:16:36 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2015, 09:09:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 29, 2015, 09:00:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2015, 07:00:07 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 29, 2015, 06:56:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 29, 2015, 04:13:04 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 08:59:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 28, 2015, 07:32:53 PM
As Rossfan says

Latest RedC

FG 27 (+3) (+6 since Dec)
Lab 10 (+3) (+4 since Dec)
FF 18 (=)
SF 17 (-4) (-7 since Dec)
Ind/Oth 28 (-2).
[Ind 24, Grn 2, Ren 2]

The numbers won't be pretty for the Shinners when their internal child abusers report is leaked closer to the GE
Prev polls imo were incorrect
No way sf will be above 19% come election time

I think people will see a bit of a ff comeback as they have some v good candidates around the country. Think ff need to replace Micheal Martin though

The child abusers you mention - were they sf candidates/ people ?

I'm referring to the internal SF report - the exact breakdown of how many were terrorists/candidates will be known when our Gerry comes clean or when the report is made public

If SF had nothing to do with it, why would there be an internal SF report in the first place?
Sure didn't micheal Martin and Inda kinny knew about and met victims of sexual abuse as long as a couple of years ago ( in the case of Maria Cahill I think her name was) so I expect they all had internal meetings about these. But no one seemed to do a fecking thing until the media took an interest and they were all about them then!
Feck all the political parties can do as this is something only the gardai can deal with

Surely "if" SF have a dossier on child abusers that they facilitated with moves etc then they'd want to deal with the issue way ahead of the GE - if it's not dealt with then and the Indo leak it then we can forget about SF having any role in the next Govt.
Sf have no chance of getting into gov

The gardai are the people to be dealing with this
Not sf, ff , fg

If any of those three parties have a detailed dossier on child abuse by their members and facilitated by the higher echelons then  they should be handing it over now to the guards before it's leaked.
You'd expect the gardai to already have such info as all politicians and people refer such incidents to them
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 30, 2015, 03:09:41 AM
Why is it that these stories are now being broken closer to election times?
Not taking away from the gravity of the allegations the timing is a little suspect. Politics is a dirty sport.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on March 30, 2015, 08:30:23 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 29, 2015, 11:16:36 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2015, 09:09:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 29, 2015, 09:00:18 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 29, 2015, 07:00:07 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 29, 2015, 06:56:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 29, 2015, 04:13:04 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 28, 2015, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: heffo on March 28, 2015, 08:59:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 28, 2015, 07:32:53 PM
As Rossfan says

Latest RedC

FG 27 (+3) (+6 since Dec)
Lab 10 (+3) (+4 since Dec)
FF 18 (=)
SF 17 (-4) (-7 since Dec)
Ind/Oth 28 (-2).
[Ind 24, Grn 2, Ren 2]

The numbers won't be pretty for the Shinners when their internal child abusers report is leaked closer to the GE
Prev polls imo were incorrect
No way sf will be above 19% come election time

I think people will see a bit of a ff comeback as they have some v good candidates around the country. Think ff need to replace Micheal Martin though

The child abusers you mention - were they sf candidates/ people ?

I'm referring to the internal SF report - the exact breakdown of how many were terrorists/candidates will be known when our Gerry comes clean or when the report is made public

If SF had nothing to do with it, why would there be an internal SF report in the first place?
Sure didn't micheal Martin and Inda kinny knew about and met victims of sexual abuse as long as a couple of years ago ( in the case of Maria Cahill I think her name was) so I expect they all had internal meetings about these. But no one seemed to do a fecking thing until the media took an interest and they were all about them then!
Feck all the political parties can do as this is something only the gardai can deal with

Surely "if" SF have a dossier on child abusers that they facilitated with moves etc then they'd want to deal with the issue way ahead of the GE - if it's not dealt with then and the Indo leak it then we can forget about SF having any role in the next Govt.
Sf have no chance of getting into gov

The gardai are the people to be dealing with this
Not sf, ff , fg

If any of those three parties have a detailed dossier on child abuse by their members and facilitated by the higher echelons then  they should be handing it over now to the guards before it's leaked.
You'd expect the gardai to already have such info as all politicians and people refer such incidents to them

You would expect it but some of the people involved have a history of passive and not proactive co-operation with the Guards.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on March 30, 2015, 08:31:13 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 30, 2015, 03:09:41 AM
Why is it that these stories are now being broken closer to election times?
Not taking away from the gravity of the allegations the timing is a little suspect. Politics is a dirty sport.

It's a dirty business alright - who knows how the criminal mind works:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/video-fake-sinn-fein-tweet-at-centre-of-frontline-presidential-debate-row-has-never-been-traced-28946672.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 30, 2015, 09:12:51 AM
Quote from: heffo on March 30, 2015, 08:31:13 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 30, 2015, 03:09:41 AM
Why is it that these stories are now being broken closer to election times?
Not taking away from the gravity of the allegations the timing is a little suspect. Politics is a dirty sport.

It's a dirty business alright - who knows how the criminal mind works:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/video-fake-sinn-fein-tweet-at-centre-of-frontline-presidential-debate-row-has-never-been-traced-28946672.html
That episode was the first thing that popped into my head too.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 06:14:27 AM
another lovely little scheme our government is involved in...
http://directdemocracyireland.ie/government-plan-to-deny-human-freedom-to-protect-their-revenue-stream/

you should be scared. What a legacy we're leaving behind.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website 😒

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those bastards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 11:19:38 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website 😒

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness
Exactly.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 31, 2015, 11:30:41 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness

:D :D
Some prize fcukin tulips goin around these days :-[
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website 😒

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness

Of course people should pay their back taxes on property etc.
You're missing the point. Happy if your money can be removed without your consent?
It's already being mooted with water charges.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 31, 2015, 02:58:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2015, 11:30:41 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness

:D :D
Some prize fcukin tulips goin around these days :-[

...... and the irony continues.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 03:04:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website 😒

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness

Of course people should pay their back taxes on property etc.
You're missing the point. Happy if your money can be removed without your consent?
It's already being mooted with water charges.

Im not missing the point, yes I am happy with that. They already take your household tax from your wages. Yes I agree that if you don't pay a tax it comes out of ur wages. I think if you don't pay ur tax ur a free loading c**t and I'll have to pick up the slack
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 31, 2015, 03:10:27 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 03:04:00 PM


Im not missing the point, yes I am happy with that. They already take your household tax from your wages. Yes I agree that if you don't pay a tax it comes out of ur wages. I think if you don't pay ur tax ur a free loading c**t and I'll have to pick up the slack

+ 1.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:10:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website 😒

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness

Of course people should pay their back taxes on property etc.
You're missing the point. Happy if your money can be removed without your consent?
It's already being mooted with water charges.
It's only going to affect you if you don't pay your bills.

If someone owed you money, would you keep giving them money every week/month if it was clear that they had no intention of returning the money they owed you?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 03:17:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:10:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website 😒

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness

Of course people should pay their back taxes on property etc.
You're missing the point. Happy if your money can be removed without your consent?
It's already being mooted with water charges.
It's only going to affect you if you don't pay your bills.

If someone owed you money, would you keep giving them money every week/month if it was clear that they had no intention of returning the money they owed you?

So you are advocating that the government controls your money and can make deductions from your bank account as they see fit. They'll make sure they get their cut before you have a chance to feed your family.

You would be happy with that?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 03:26:03 PM
That's a massive amount of spin, you're convienently forgetting that if ur below a certain wage u don't pay the thing in the first place. So it's not a case of not being able to feed ur kids it's a case of paying for services you receive. So yes, I'm 100% in favour of the government being entitled to make you pay your taxes, 100%! In fact Id go as far ask charging extra to pay for the admin of having to do this
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:30:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 03:17:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:10:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website 😒

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness

Of course people should pay their back taxes on property etc.
You're missing the point. Happy if your money can be removed without your consent?
It's already being mooted with water charges.
It's only going to affect you if you don't pay your bills.

If someone owed you money, would you keep giving them money every week/month if it was clear that they had no intention of returning the money they owed you?

So you are advocating that the government controls your money and can make deductions from your bank account as they see fit. They'll make sure they get their cut before you have a chance to feed your family.

You would be happy with that?
Unless I've misunderstood, they won't be going near your bank account. You'll be prevented from completing certain transactions (such as a property sale / vehicle sale) if you have not paid relevant charges or fines, and if you're someone who gets money from the government, you'll get that money net of what you owe. No one can go into your bank account.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 04:31:47 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:30:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 03:17:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:10:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website 😒

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness

Of course people should pay their back taxes on property etc.
You're missing the point. Happy if your money can be removed without your consent?
It's already being mooted with water charges.
It's only going to affect you if you don't pay your bills.

If someone owed you money, would you keep giving them money every week/month if it was clear that they had no intention of returning the money they owed you?

So you are advocating that the government controls your money and can make deductions from your bank account as they see fit. They'll make sure they get their cut before you have a chance to feed your family.

You would be happy with that?
Unless I've misunderstood, they won't be going near your bank account. You'll be prevented from completing certain transactions (such as a property sale / vehicle sale) if you have not paid relevant charges or fines, and if you're someone who gets money from the government, you'll get that money net of what you owe. No one can go into your bank account.

Remove the phrase "bank account and" substitute with "Wages or welfare payments". Most people have nothing in their bank accounts anyway.

Does that still make it right?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 04:44:23 PM
People on welfare are already getting most of these for free anyway

Yes it should come out of their wages.

What is ur alternative to these people not paying their taxes?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 31, 2015, 04:44:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:30:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 03:17:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:10:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness

Of course people should pay their back taxes on property etc.
You're missing the point. Happy if your money can be removed without your consent?
It's already being mooted with water charges.
It's only going to affect you if you don't pay your bills.

If someone owed you money, would you keep giving them money every week/month if it was clear that they had no intention of returning the money they owed you?

So you are advocating that the government controls your money and can make deductions from your bank account as they see fit. They'll make sure they get their cut before you have a chance to feed your family.

You would be happy with that?
Unless I've misunderstood, they won't be going near your bank account. You'll be prevented from completing certain transactions (such as a property sale / vehicle sale) if you have not paid relevant charges or fines, and if you're someone who gets money from the government, you'll get that money net of what you owe. No one can go into your bank account.
Times like this I'm so glad I've blocked that Fox buck. If people could only stop quoting him now please  :D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 31, 2015, 04:45:10 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 03:26:03 PM
In fact Id go as far ask charging extra to pay for the admin of having to do this

ah now, jays if they started charging for the admin there'd be nothing left of the poor sods wages. can u imagine how much those beauts in the public service would charge?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 04:51:06 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 31, 2015, 04:45:10 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 03:26:03 PM
In fact Id go as far ask charging extra to pay for the admin of having to do this

ah now, jays if they started charging for the admin there'd be nothing left of the poor sods wages. can u imagine how much those beauts in the public service would charge?

If only there was a clever way for people to avoid this admin charge....
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 31, 2015, 04:59:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2015, 04:44:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:30:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 03:17:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:10:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness

Of course people should pay their back taxes on property etc.
You're missing the point. Happy if your money can be removed without your consent?
It's already being mooted with water charges.
It's only going to affect you if you don't pay your bills.

If someone owed you money, would you keep giving them money every week/month if it was clear that they had no intention of returning the money they owed you?

So you are advocating that the government controls your money and can make deductions from your bank account as they see fit. They'll make sure they get their cut before you have a chance to feed your family.

You would be happy with that?
Unless I've misunderstood, they won't be going near your bank account. You'll be prevented from completing certain transactions (such as a property sale / vehicle sale) if you have not paid relevant charges or fines, and if you're someone who gets money from the government, you'll get that money net of what you owe. No one can go into your bank account.
Times like this I'm so glad I've blocked that Fox buck. If people could only stop quoting him now please  :D

ure ignoring anyone that disagrees with u Rossfan. like most things, i'm not sure u get the concept of a forum.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 05:57:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 04:31:47 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:30:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 03:17:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:10:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website 😒

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness

Of course people should pay their back taxes on property etc.
You're missing the point. Happy if your money can be removed without your consent?
It's already being mooted with water charges.
It's only going to affect you if you don't pay your bills.

If someone owed you money, would you keep giving them money every week/month if it was clear that they had no intention of returning the money they owed you?

So you are advocating that the government controls your money and can make deductions from your bank account as they see fit. They'll make sure they get their cut before you have a chance to feed your family.

You would be happy with that?
Unless I've misunderstood, they won't be going near your bank account. You'll be prevented from completing certain transactions (such as a property sale / vehicle sale) if you have not paid relevant charges or fines, and if you're someone who gets money from the government, you'll get that money net of what you owe. No one can go into your bank account.

Remove the phrase "bank account and" substitute with "Wages or welfare payments". Most people have nothing in their bank accounts anyway.

Does that still make it right?
It's not ideal, but what's the alternative if people refuse to pay? Just let them avoid paying? Let those who do pay subsidise them?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 08:31:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2015, 04:44:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:30:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 03:17:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:10:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness

Of course people should pay their back taxes on property etc.
You're missing the point. Happy if your money can be removed without your consent?
It's already being mooted with water charges.
It's only going to affect you if you don't pay your bills.

If someone owed you money, would you keep giving them money every week/month if it was clear that they had no intention of returning the money they owed you?

So you are advocating that the government controls your money and can make deductions from your bank account as they see fit. They'll make sure they get their cut before you have a chance to feed your family.

You would be happy with that?
Unless I've misunderstood, they won't be going near your bank account. You'll be prevented from completing certain transactions (such as a property sale / vehicle sale) if you have not paid relevant charges or fines, and if you're someone who gets money from the government, you'll get that money net of what you owe. No one can go into your bank account.
Times like this I'm so glad I've blocked that Fox buck. If people could only stop quoting him now please  :D

(http://eil.com/images/main/Morrissey-The-More-You-Igno-26508.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 09:39:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 05:57:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 04:31:47 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:30:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 03:17:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:10:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website 😒

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness

Of course people should pay their back taxes on property etc.
You're missing the point. Happy if your money can be removed without your consent?
It's already being mooted with water charges.
It's only going to affect you if you don't pay your bills.

If someone owed you money, would you keep giving them money every week/month if it was clear that they had no intention of returning the money they owed you?

So you are advocating that the government controls your money and can make deductions from your bank account as they see fit. They'll make sure they get their cut before you have a chance to feed your family.

You would be happy with that?
Unless I've misunderstood, they won't be going near your bank account. You'll be prevented from completing certain transactions (such as a property sale / vehicle sale) if you have not paid relevant charges or fines, and if you're someone who gets money from the government, you'll get that money net of what you owe. No one can go into your bank account.

Remove the phrase "bank account and" substitute with "Wages or welfare payments". Most people have nothing in their bank accounts anyway.

Does that still make it right?
It's not ideal, but what's the alternative if people refuse to pay? Just let them avoid paying? Let those who do pay subsidise them?

My first thought on it is to make sure that people have enough to live on without the greedy pigs at the top forcing untold misery on the vunerable. A few unfortunate events in your life could mean that you at the receiving end of this too.

Paying fairly for "taxes" that are fair is one thing...making them up and imposing them is another, especially when austerity measures don't seem to apply for those creating these new rules or for their buddies.

What about all the companies that had multi-million debts but walked away to start over..

seems like going for the small fish is the approach.






Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: gallsman on March 31, 2015, 10:17:10 PM
Can't find the Irish Water thread so will put this here. Heard on the radio on the way home tonight that in order claim the water conservation grant, a second registration with Department of Social Protection will be required, the administration of which could cost north of €3m. A right pig's ear.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 10:22:55 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 31, 2015, 10:17:10 PM
Can't find the Irish Water thread so will put this here. Heard on the radio on the way home tonight that in order claim the water conservation grant, a second registration with Dissident of Social Protection will be required, the administration of which could cost north of €3m. A right pig's ear.

Quango within a Quango....

You can't have faith in these clowns to do anything right.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on April 01, 2015, 08:23:17 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 31, 2015, 10:17:10 PM
Can't find the Irish Water thread so will put this here. Heard on the radio on the way home tonight that in order claim the water conservation grant, a second registration with Dissident of Social Protection will be required, the administration of which could cost north of €3m. A right pig's ear.

Wonder is the bonus included in that figure? dunno is 3m enough to grease those gravy train wheels.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on April 02, 2015, 06:21:53 PM
More bad news for the 3 stooges - €197m surplus in the Public Finances in first Quarter.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 02, 2015, 11:06:03 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 31, 2015, 04:59:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2015, 04:44:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:30:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 03:17:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:10:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness

Of course people should pay their back taxes on property etc.
You're missing the point. Happy if your money can be removed without your consent?
It's already being mooted with water charges.
It's only going to affect you if you don't pay your bills.

If someone owed you money, would you keep giving them money every week/month if it was clear that they had no intention of returning the money they owed you?

So you are advocating that the government controls your money and can make deductions from your bank account as they see fit. They'll make sure they get their cut before you have a chance to feed your family.

You would be happy with that?
Unless I've misunderstood, they won't be going near your bank account. You'll be prevented from completing certain transactions (such as a property sale / vehicle sale) if you have not paid relevant charges or fines, and if you're someone who gets money from the government, you'll get that money net of what you owe. No one can go into your bank account.
Times like this I'm so glad I've blocked that Fox buck. If people could only stop quoting him now please  :D

ure ignoring anyone that disagrees with u Rossfan. like most things, i'm not sure u get the concept of a forum.
No point in talking to a lazy as public sector parasite!!

The country needs rid of the scourge of the taxpayer- those waste of good money throughout the civil service and public sector.
Money paid to these pen pushers and work avoiders is a scandal

Root and branch cull of these fcukwits needs to be done.
Might use the money to fix the leaky pipes!

Those let go won't be missed.
Was chatting to a 29 year veteran civil servant today . He was laughing at how he doesn't do anything productive and hasn't done for two decades. Reckons 75% of his dept are the same.
f**king disgrace. This isn't fg's fault but successive governments indulge and allow this.
Wasters like him and ros girl should be out on their ear!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: LeoMc on April 03, 2015, 01:43:40 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 02, 2015, 11:06:03 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 31, 2015, 04:59:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2015, 04:44:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:30:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 03:17:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:10:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness

Of course people should pay their back taxes on property etc.
You're missing the point. Happy if your money can be removed without your consent?
It's already being mooted with water charges.
It's only going to affect you if you don't pay your bills.

If someone owed you money, would you keep giving them money every week/month if it was clear that they had no intention of returning the money they owed you?

So you are advocating that the government controls your money and can make deductions from your bank account as they see fit. They'll make sure they get their cut before you have a chance to feed your family.

You would be happy with that?
Unless I've misunderstood, they won't be going near your bank account. You'll be prevented from completing certain transactions (such as a property sale / vehicle sale) if you have not paid relevant charges or fines, and if you're someone who gets money from the government, you'll get that money net of what you owe. No one can go into your bank account.
Times like this I'm so glad I've blocked that Fox buck. If people could only stop quoting him now please  :D

ure ignoring anyone that disagrees with u Rossfan. like most things, i'm not sure u get the concept of a forum.
No point in talking to a lazy as public sector parasite!!

The country needs rid of the scourge of the taxpayer- those waste of good money throughout the civil service and public sector.
Money paid to these pen pushers and work avoiders is a scandal

Root and branch cull of these fcukwits needs to be done.
Might use the money to fix the leaky pipes!

Those let go won't be missed.
Was chatting to a 29 year veteran civil servant today . He was laughing at how he doesn't do anything productive and hasn't done for two decades. Reckons 75% of his dept are the same.
f**king disgrace. This isn't fg's fault but successive governments indulge and allow this.
Wasters like him and ros girl should be out on their ear!

So if the Right wing parties wont start up to the Unions what hope is there that any Left wing party (Labour, SF, etc) would?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on April 03, 2015, 02:58:41 PM
What an ignorant hate filled rant by that yoke Lynchboy. Thankfully he's on my ignore list but occasionally it's good to see the likes of him quoted to see his true colours.
Hope he never needs an ambulance or an emergency operation anyday soon ..... or maybe....
Why do people have to "stand up to the Unions".
Do ye yearn to go back to the 1930s again or what? I suppose some of ye shopped in Dunnes yesterday  :-[
I'm proud to say I joined one crew of picketers to support them for an hour.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on April 03, 2015, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2015, 02:58:41 PM
Hope he never needs an ambulance or an emergency operation anyday soon ..... or maybe....

There is a fundamental difference between hardworking frontline workers and pencil-pushing 'not my job' merchants.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: johnneycool on April 03, 2015, 03:13:33 PM
Whats the story with Enda, Mick Wallace and the senior Garda from the 'athlone' area who recently got a promotion even when there's a few disciplinary hearings against him?
Caught a bit of Vincent Brown the other night and it did look like Enda had something to hide the way he responded to Wallaces questions on it in the Daíl.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: gallsman on April 03, 2015, 03:17:02 PM
Lynchboy, are you not a massive Shinner? What do you think they're going to do about problematic public sectors north or south of the border?! Not a f**king thing, that's what.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on April 03, 2015, 03:48:32 PM
Quote from: heffo on April 03, 2015, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2015, 02:58:41 PM
Hope he never needs an ambulance or an emergency operation anyday soon ..... or maybe....

There is a fundamental difference between hardworking frontline workers and pencil-pushing 'not my job' merchants.

Pens and pencils are long since obsolete ;).
Front line people won't do other people's jobs either and need back room staff too.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 03, 2015, 09:19:24 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 03, 2015, 01:43:40 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 02, 2015, 11:06:03 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 31, 2015, 04:59:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2015, 04:44:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:30:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 03:17:18 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 31, 2015, 03:10:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 31, 2015, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 31, 2015, 10:24:09 AM
What a reputable website

Imagine not issuing a tax clearance very to someone who hasn't paid their tax, those b**tards
Or expecting people to pay a tax associated with a house before they sell that house, pure madness

Of course people should pay their back taxes on property etc.
You're missing the point. Happy if your money can be removed without your consent?
It's already being mooted with water charges.
It's only going to affect you if you don't pay your bills.

If someone owed you money, would you keep giving them money every week/month if it was clear that they had no intention of returning the money they owed you?

So you are advocating that the government controls your money and can make deductions from your bank account as they see fit. They'll make sure they get their cut before you have a chance to feed your family.

You would be happy with that?
Unless I've misunderstood, they won't be going near your bank account. You'll be prevented from completing certain transactions (such as a property sale / vehicle sale) if you have not paid relevant charges or fines, and if you're someone who gets money from the government, you'll get that money net of what you owe. No one can go into your bank account.
Times like this I'm so glad I've blocked that Fox buck. If people could only stop quoting him now please  :D

ure ignoring anyone that disagrees with u Rossfan. like most things, i'm not sure u get the concept of a forum.
No point in talking to a lazy as public sector parasite!!

The country needs rid of the scourge of the taxpayer- those waste of good money throughout the civil service and public sector.
Money paid to these pen pushers and work avoiders is a scandal

Root and branch cull of these fcukwits needs to be done.
Might use the money to fix the leaky pipes!

Those let go won't be missed.
Was chatting to a 29 year veteran civil servant today . He was laughing at how he doesn't do anything productive and hasn't done for two decades. Reckons 75% of his dept are the same.
f**king disgrace. This isn't fg's fault but successive governments indulge and allow this.
Wasters like him and ros girl should be out on their ear!

So if the Right wing parties wont start up to the Unions what hope is there that any Left wing party (Labour, SF, etc) would?
Someone has to. The unions are actually useless for the workers they profess to stand up for.
Unions in this country are purely out for their self interest and self gains.

Proper performance managemt of these wasters and parasites like that rosshfan waster would kick out the dross, up performance and both save taxpayers money and ensure the public sector actually do some effective work for us!

The workers need to reform their unions. Compare the unions here to the likes of those in France or USA. Unions here are a disgrace. Bit like the public sector.





Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 03, 2015, 09:22:30 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 03, 2015, 03:17:02 PM
Lynchboy, are you not a massive Shinner? What do you think they're going to do about problematic public sectors north or south of the border?! Not a f**king thing, that's what.
I'm a republican not a shinner. Huge difference. While I know a good few shinners in the north, my voting allegiance was always FF here. In the last few years I have given my vote around to all parties as I saw fit - since ff imploded and local candidates are crap.
Sf in the south only have a handful of good candidates and I don't equate sf to the republican movement that I supported during the war times.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 03, 2015, 09:24:16 PM
Quote from: heffo on April 03, 2015, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2015, 02:58:41 PM
Hope he never needs an ambulance or an emergency operation anyday soon ..... or maybe....

There is a fundamental difference between hardworking frontline workers and pencil-pushing 'not my job' merchants.
Spot on

But you will hear a whinge load of excuses for the huge over subscription and excess of useless back room staff that do nothing but drain the funds that would better serve front line services
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 04, 2015, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2015, 02:58:41 PM
What an ignorant hate filled rant by that yoke Lynchboy. Thankfully he's on my ignore list but occasionally it's good to see the likes of him quoted to see his true colours.
Hope he never needs an ambulance or an emergency operation anyday soon ..... or maybe....
Why do people have to "stand up to the Unions".
Do ye yearn to go back to the 1930s again or what? I suppose some of ye shopped in Dunnes yesterday  :-[
I'm proud to say I joined one crew of picketers to support them for an hour.
Fair dues, Ross, you're on the money there. The  Dunne's dispute  is only the first of many that are coming down the line.   IT's the zero hour contracts and the minimum wage being the maximum wage in many quarters that is banjaxing  our economic recovery. 

Right now, you have an employers' market, lots less jobs than workers so unscrupulous employers are getting away with bloody blue murder. I know cases where workers, while being paid the minimum wage , are obliged to work extra hours without pay.  My son-in-law lives in Cavan. He got a job recently as a HGV driver and  was told the pay would be a straight  €350 into the hand.     

That was grand he thought until he found out that there would be no overtime, food or travelling allowances of any sort. So if his last run of the day takes him to Cork, say, he can either find accommodation there at his own expense or drive back to the yard in Dublin. Then he has to drive to Ballyconnell and be ready to return to the yard for 7.30 next morning. HIs boss told him to take it or leave it, there was a long queue waiting to take his place. He's by no means an exception to the general rule.

Given that there are lots of Irish workers who are unemployed due t the recession and there are even more non-nationals in competition for whatever work is going, hands a clear advantage to the employers.  Most of those who arrive here are desperate for work, any work and unsure of their legal rights so exploiting them is a relatively simple matter.

It's something Irish people have had plenty of experience of but there's a twist to the story in this case as the Irish were the exploited workers arriving in foreign places in the 60s and again in the 80s.

I'd go after the employers before I'd have a go at the public service personnel. For one thing, the majority of public service people are not particularly well-paid. The Croke Park Deal, followed by the Haddington Road Agreement saw to this.

Stick to yer guns, Ross and double damn the begrudgers! ;D




(Ps Good luck tomorrow.)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on April 05, 2015, 10:17:30 PM
Thanks Lar and a good post. That poor chap you mentioned probably isn't get PRSI paid for him either??
More bad news for the 3 bucks as I hear another poll shows support for your County's favourite party rising again. :P
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: give her dixie on April 06, 2015, 01:44:56 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 04, 2015, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2015, 02:58:41 PM
What an ignorant hate filled rant by that yoke Lynchboy. Thankfully he's on my ignore list but occasionally it's good to see the likes of him quoted to see his true colours.
Hope he never needs an ambulance or an emergency operation anyday soon ..... or maybe....
Why do people have to "stand up to the Unions".
Do ye yearn to go back to the 1930s again or what? I suppose some of ye shopped in Dunnes yesterday  :-[
I'm proud to say I joined one crew of picketers to support them for an hour.
Fair dues, Ross, you're on the money there. The  Dunne's dispute  is only the first of many that are coming down the line.   IT's the zero hour contracts and the minimum wage being the maximum wage in many quarters that is banjaxing  our economic recovery. 

Right now, you have an employers' market, lots less jobs than workers so unscrupulous employers are getting away with bloody blue murder. I know cases where workers, while being paid the minimum wage , are obliged to work extra hours without pay.  My son-in-law lives in Cavan. He got a job recently as a HGV driver and  was told the pay would be a straight  €350 into the hand.     

That was grand he thought until he found out that there would be no overtime, food or travelling allowances of any sort. So if his last run of the day takes him to Cork, say, he can either find accommodation there at his own expense or drive back to the yard in Dublin. Then he has to drive to Ballyconnell and be ready to return to the yard for 7.30 next morning. HIs boss told him to take it or leave it, there was a long queue waiting to take his place. He's by no means an exception to the general rule.

Given that there are lots of Irish workers who are unemployed due t the recession and there are even more non-nationals in competition for whatever work is going, hands a clear advantage to the employers.  Most of those who arrive here are desperate for work, any work and unsure of their legal rights so exploiting them is a relatively simple matter.

It's something Irish people have had plenty of experience of but there's a twist to the story in this case as the Irish were the exploited workers arriving in foreign places in the 60s and again in the 80s.

I'd go after the employers before I'd have a go at the public service personnel. For one thing, the majority of public service people are not particularly well-paid. The Croke Park Deal, followed by the Haddington Road Agreement saw to this.

Stick to yer guns, Ross and double damn the begrudgers! ;D




(Ps Good luck tomorrow.)

2 great posts folks.

I saw Christy Moore last night in Carrickmacross and he dedicated his 80's song Dunnes Stores to the workers striking on Thursday.
Fair play to him for continually sticking up for the average worker.

As a HGV driver, we are currently been screwed by our employers as they once paid us a decent wage due to the hours we worked
and the sacrifices we made for been away from home for long periods of time. Now they have the luxury of a EU work force and instead of wages going up, they have gone down. We earn less today than we did 20 years ago.

I don't blame the people filling the jobs, but rather the bosses who instead of looking to the long term, look to the short term
and ignore the reality that due to low wages we are not recruiting young people into the profession.

A quick look at HGV drivers on the road shows that hardly anyone under the age of 40 is entering the profession.

One thing the recession has taught us is that wages will remain low and anyone questioning the status quo will be easily replaced

Dunnes Stores by Christy Moore 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TER_M3KNVCE
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on April 06, 2015, 09:55:19 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 06, 2015, 01:44:56 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 04, 2015, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2015, 02:58:41 PM
What an ignorant hate filled rant by that yoke Lynchboy. Thankfully he's on my ignore list but occasionally it's good to see the likes of him quoted to see his true colours.
Hope he never needs an ambulance or an emergency operation anyday soon ..... or maybe....
Why do people have to "stand up to the Unions".
Do ye yearn to go back to the 1930s again or what? I suppose some of ye shopped in Dunnes yesterday  :-[
I'm proud to say I joined one crew of picketers to support them for an hour.
Fair dues, Ross, you're on the money there. The  Dunne's dispute  is only the first of many that are coming down the line.   IT's the zero hour contracts and the minimum wage being the maximum wage in many quarters that is banjaxing  our economic recovery. 

Right now, you have an employers' market, lots less jobs than workers so unscrupulous employers are getting away with bloody blue murder. I know cases where workers, while being paid the minimum wage , are obliged to work extra hours without pay.  My son-in-law lives in Cavan. He got a job recently as a HGV driver and  was told the pay would be a straight  €350 into the hand.     

That was grand he thought until he found out that there would be no overtime, food or travelling allowances of any sort. So if his last run of the day takes him to Cork, say, he can either find accommodation there at his own expense or drive back to the yard in Dublin. Then he has to drive to Ballyconnell and be ready to return to the yard for 7.30 next morning. HIs boss told him to take it or leave it, there was a long queue waiting to take his place. He's by no means an exception to the general rule.

Given that there are lots of Irish workers who are unemployed due t the recession and there are even more non-nationals in competition for whatever work is going, hands a clear advantage to the employers.  Most of those who arrive here are desperate for work, any work and unsure of their legal rights so exploiting them is a relatively simple matter.

It's something Irish people have had plenty of experience of but there's a twist to the story in this case as the Irish were the exploited workers arriving in foreign places in the 60s and again in the 80s.

I'd go after the employers before I'd have a go at the public service personnel. For one thing, the majority of public service people are not particularly well-paid. The Croke Park Deal, followed by the Haddington Road Agreement saw to this.

Stick to yer guns, Ross and double damn the begrudgers! ;D




(Ps Good luck tomorrow.)

2 great posts folks.

I saw Christy Moore last night in Carrickmacross and he dedicated his 80's song Dunnes Stores to the workers striking on Thursday.
Fair play to him for continually sticking up for the average worker.

As a HGV driver, we are currently been screwed by our employers as they once paid us a decent wage due to the hours we worked
and the sacrifices we made for been away from home for long periods of time. Now they have the luxury of a EU work force and instead of wages going up, they have gone down. We earn less today than we did 20 years ago.

I don't blame the people filling the jobs, but rather the bosses who instead of looking to the long term, look to the short term
and ignore the reality that due to low wages we are not recruiting young people into the profession.

A quick look at HGV drivers on the road shows that hardly anyone under the age of 40 is entering the profession.

One thing the recession has taught us is that wages will remain low and anyone questioning the status quo will be easily replaced

Dunnes Stores by Christy Moore 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TER_M3KNVCE

One of the main problems with this country is that the govt are putting the interests of large corporations ahead of the interests of small and medium sized local businesses. They are also putting the interest of these corporations ahead of the country's citizens. Their refusal to tackle upwards only rent which is crippling local businesses along with their refusal to ensure Multi Nationals pay the extremely generous rate of 12.5% shows where their loyalties lie.

While you are on lower wages than you were 20 years ago and many have taken massive cuts over the last 7 years there are a few who have remained relatively untouched. These people are the same people who are making the decisions to hammer the same people over and over.

You will find the people who have little problem paying for all these new taxes are the people who have remained relatively untouched by the recession. They can afford it and attack those who cannot afford it by calling them the "we won't pay brigade" and lable them as "thugs" when they go out and protest.

Unions have been complicit in this by ensuring new entrants to the public service are earning far less than those lucky enough to be already there. A typical "I'm alright Jack" approach which is similar to those defending new taxes on this board. Their laughable attempts at trying to sympathise with the working class who are on minimum wage and work under conditions described above is cringeworthy.

A better way to improve the economy would be to bring public sector salaries more in line with the economic conditions we are in. They are not sustainable at their current rate. This obviously won't happen as it would be the right thing to do but no one has the bottle to tackle it. Instead they continue to hammer the same people over and over and over.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: gallsman on April 06, 2015, 10:50:31 AM
As you well know, they aren't labeled as thugs for protesting. They're labeled as thugs for carrying on like savages at some of their protests.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on April 06, 2015, 12:09:25 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 06, 2015, 10:50:31 AM
As you well know, they aren't labeled as thugs for protesting. They're labeled as thugs for carrying on like savages at some of their protests.

I'd hardly call shouting obsceneties and throwing water balloons thuggish behaviour but each to their own I suppose? What would you call those that protest by way of burning, looting, attacking police? Water protests in Ireland have been peaceful. Only bit of violence I remember was when the guards tried to smash a woman up against a bollard.

I've called referees all sorts of names over the years and I think i used to throw water ballons at halloween. Guess I'm a savage in your eyes too?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: gallsman on April 06, 2015, 12:13:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 06, 2015, 12:09:25 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 06, 2015, 10:50:31 AM
As you well know, they aren't labeled as thugs for protesting. They're labeled as thugs for carrying on like savages at some of their protests.

I'd hardly call shouting obsceneties and throwing water balloons thuggish behaviour but each to their own I suppose? What would you call those that protest by way of burning, looting, attacking police? Water protests in Ireland have been peaceful. Only bit of violence I remember was when the guards tried to smash a woman up against a bollard.

I've called referees all sorts of names over the years and I think i used to throw water ballons at halloween. Guess I'm a savage in your eyes too?

You wouldn't call barracking middle aged women acting like a savage? Says a lot about you.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on April 06, 2015, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 06, 2015, 12:13:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 06, 2015, 12:09:25 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 06, 2015, 10:50:31 AM
As you well know, they aren't labeled as thugs for protesting. They're labeled as thugs for carrying on like savages at some of their protests.

I'd hardly call shouting obsceneties and throwing water balloons thuggish behaviour but each to their own I suppose? What would you call those that protest by way of burning, looting, attacking police? Water protests in Ireland have been peaceful. Only bit of violence I remember was when the guards tried to smash a woman up against a bollard.

I've called referees all sorts of names over the years and I think i used to throw water ballons at halloween. Guess I'm a savage in your eyes too?

You wouldn't call barracking middle aged women acting like a savage? Says a lot about you.

Answer my question? Would you conside me a savage for swearing at ref's (usually balding middle aged men) and throwing water balloons?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: give her dixie on April 06, 2015, 01:02:06 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 06, 2015, 09:55:19 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 06, 2015, 01:44:56 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 04, 2015, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2015, 02:58:41 PM
What an ignorant hate filled rant by that yoke Lynchboy. Thankfully he's on my ignore list but occasionally it's good to see the likes of him quoted to see his true colours.
Hope he never needs an ambulance or an emergency operation anyday soon ..... or maybe....
Why do people have to "stand up to the Unions".
Do ye yearn to go back to the 1930s again or what? I suppose some of ye shopped in Dunnes yesterday  :-[
I'm proud to say I joined one crew of picketers to support them for an hour.
Fair dues, Ross, you're on the money there. The  Dunne's dispute  is only the first of many that are coming down the line.   IT's the zero hour contracts and the minimum wage being the maximum wage in many quarters that is banjaxing  our economic recovery. 

Right now, you have an employers' market, lots less jobs than workers so unscrupulous employers are getting away with bloody blue murder. I know cases where workers, while being paid the minimum wage , are obliged to work extra hours without pay.  My son-in-law lives in Cavan. He got a job recently as a HGV driver and  was told the pay would be a straight  €350 into the hand.     

That was grand he thought until he found out that there would be no overtime, food or travelling allowances of any sort. So if his last run of the day takes him to Cork, say, he can either find accommodation there at his own expense or drive back to the yard in Dublin. Then he has to drive to Ballyconnell and be ready to return to the yard for 7.30 next morning. HIs boss told him to take it or leave it, there was a long queue waiting to take his place. He's by no means an exception to the general rule.

Given that there are lots of Irish workers who are unemployed due t the recession and there are even more non-nationals in competition for whatever work is going, hands a clear advantage to the employers.  Most of those who arrive here are desperate for work, any work and unsure of their legal rights so exploiting them is a relatively simple matter.

It's something Irish people have had plenty of experience of but there's a twist to the story in this case as the Irish were the exploited workers arriving in foreign places in the 60s and again in the 80s.

I'd go after the employers before I'd have a go at the public service personnel. For one thing, the majority of public service people are not particularly well-paid. The Croke Park Deal, followed by the Haddington Road Agreement saw to this.

Stick to yer guns, Ross and double damn the begrudgers! ;D




(Ps Good luck tomorrow.)

2 great posts folks.

I saw Christy Moore last night in Carrickmacross and he dedicated his 80's song Dunnes Stores to the workers striking on Thursday.
Fair play to him for continually sticking up for the average worker.

As a HGV driver, we are currently been screwed by our employers as they once paid us a decent wage due to the hours we worked
and the sacrifices we made for been away from home for long periods of time. Now they have the luxury of a EU work force and instead of wages going up, they have gone down. We earn less today than we did 20 years ago.

I don't blame the people filling the jobs, but rather the bosses who instead of looking to the long term, look to the short term
and ignore the reality that due to low wages we are not recruiting young people into the profession.

A quick look at HGV drivers on the road shows that hardly anyone under the age of 40 is entering the profession.

One thing the recession has taught us is that wages will remain low and anyone questioning the status quo will be easily replaced

Dunnes Stores by Christy Moore 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TER_M3KNVCE

One of the main problems with this country is that the govt are putting the interests of large corporations ahead of the interests of small and medium sized local businesses. They are also putting the interest of these corporations ahead of the country's citizens. Their refusal to tackle upwards only rent which is crippling local businesses along with their refusal to ensure Multi Nationals pay the extremely generous rate of 12.5% shows where their loyalties lie.

While you are on lower wages than you were 20 years ago and many have taken massive cuts over the last 7 years there are a few who have remained relatively untouched. These people are the same people who are making the decisions to hammer the same people over and over.

You will find the people who have little problem paying for all these new taxes are the people who have remained relatively untouched by the recession. They can afford it and attack those who cannot afford it by calling them the "we won't pay brigade" and lable them as "thugs" when they go out and protest.

Unions have been complicit in this by ensuring new entrants to the public service are earning far less than those lucky enough to be already there. A typical "I'm alright Jack" approach which is similar to those defending new taxes on this board. Their laughable attempts at trying to sympathise with the working class who are on minimum wage and work under conditions described above is cringeworthy.

A better way to improve the economy would be to bring public sector salaries more in line with the economic conditions we are in. They are not sustainable at their current rate. This obviously won't happen as it would be the right thing to do but no one has the bottle to tackle it. Instead they continue to hammer the same people over and over and over.

Indeed. Currently here in the North our politicians, driven by Sinn Fein and the DUP, are cutting 20,000 Public sector jobs
in order to cut Corporation tax from 21% to 12.5%. Who does this tax break help? It sure isn't the ordinary worker.

Only a few weeks ago, Gerry Adams was visited by US donors and business reps. He had this to say

"We are very good for business, we are pro-business."

"We can't be getting support from US businesses on the one hand and then be bad for business on the other."

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-is-good-for-business-adams-reassures-america-31047877.html

While big companies fund our political parties, it is us the average Joe who vote for them. It is us they should answer to, not the global corporate elite who fund them. As the saying goes, He who pays the piper calls the tune.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on April 06, 2015, 03:43:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 06, 2015, 12:09:25 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 06, 2015, 10:50:31 AM
As you well know, they aren't labeled as thugs for protesting. They're labeled as thugs for carrying on like savages at some of their protests.

I'd hardly call shouting obsceneties and throwing water balloons thuggish behaviour but each to their own I suppose? What would you call those that protest by way of burning, looting, attacking police? Water protests in Ireland have been peaceful. Only bit of violence I remember was when the guards tried to smash a woman up against a bollard.

I've called referees all sorts of names over the years and I think i used to throw water ballons at halloween. Guess I'm a savage in your eyes too?
By grown men and women? Probably. (The comparison to children throwing water balloons is totally disindisingenuous.)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on April 06, 2015, 05:58:21 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 06, 2015, 01:02:06 PM


Indeed. Currently here in the North our politicians, driven by Sinn Fein and the DUP, are cutting 20,000 Public sector jobs
in order to cut Corporation tax from 21% to 12.5%. Who does this tax break help? It sure isn't the ordinary worker.


The idea is to have people work for a corporation attracted by a similar tax rate to the 26 counties, rather than being a burden on the taxpayer. Now, you can say that this will not happen, but if no companies come to the North then no tax will be lost. Perhaps the only missing ingredient is some minimum job creation requirement.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 06, 2015, 06:17:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2015, 05:58:21 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 06, 2015, 01:02:06 PM


Indeed. Currently here in the North our politicians, driven by Sinn Fein and the DUP, are cutting 20,000 Public sector jobs
in order to cut Corporation tax from 21% to 12.5%. Who does this tax break help? It sure isn't the ordinary worker.


The idea is to have people work for a corporation attracted by a similar tax rate to the 26 counties, rather than being a burden on the taxpayer. Now, you can say that this will not happen, but if no companies come to the North then no tax will be lost. Perhaps the only missing ingredient is some minimum job creation requirement.
Yes
I'd say the idea is to mimic the southern prosperity, creating new jobs and ancillary jobs by new companies locating to the north.
Getting rid of a lot of the public sector chaff in the north is something we in the south could mimic in return. These people have the prospects of work in these new companies especially in IT and finance ( and administrative supporting) roles.
Pity our lot are too cushy and lazy to bother. But where is the incentive though so you can't ame them. They'd rather sit in their lazy cushy asses. Too many in here are whinging/protesting too much!!

I'm actually coming from the opposite end to mikehunt. I can and will pay all taxes etc. I believe that everything should be paid for but everything should be properly proceduralised and all loose ends tied up - such as burst/leaky pipes fixed secured and proper controls in place before accurately charging people. Need to accurately itemize all identified extra taxes on utilities consumption.

Possibly using some of the long term unemployed to assist in public works. Then if a revolution occurred the dross and excess in public sector could be cut too. But that's never going to happen.  There are plenty of people out there with loads of good business ideas. Let's face it , our teacher laden politicians won't come up with inventive commercial plans and programmed.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on April 06, 2015, 06:55:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2015, 05:58:21 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 06, 2015, 01:02:06 PM


Indeed. Currently here in the North our politicians, driven by Sinn Fein and the DUP, are cutting 20,000 Public sector jobs
in order to cut Corporation tax from 21% to 12.5%. Who does this tax break help? It sure isn't the ordinary worker.


The idea is to have people work for a corporation attracted by a similar tax rate to the 26 counties, rather than being a burden on the taxpayer. Now, you can say that this will not happen, but if no companies come to the North then no tax will be lost. Perhaps the only missing ingredient is some minimum job creation requirement.
But isn't that classic right of centre politics?

Also, I don't understand your comment that if no companies come to the north then no tax will be lost. It WILL. Those companies that currently pay 20% will pay 7.5% less. Unless new companies bridge that gap, taxes are lost, and the difference has to be paid by Stormont to London from the block grant. That's gambling money for health, education, housing, roads etc. on a reduced corporation tax rate. It's a massive risk. It might pay off, it might not. I'm not yet convinced.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on April 06, 2015, 06:59:59 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 06, 2015, 06:17:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2015, 05:58:21 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 06, 2015, 01:02:06 PM


Indeed. Currently here in the North our politicians, driven by Sinn Fein and the DUP, are cutting 20,000 Public sector jobs
in order to cut Corporation tax from 21% to 12.5%. Who does this tax break help? It sure isn't the ordinary worker.


The idea is to have people work for a corporation attracted by a similar tax rate to the 26 counties, rather than being a burden on the taxpayer. Now, you can say that this will not happen, but if no companies come to the North then no tax will be lost. Perhaps the only missing ingredient is some minimum job creation requirement.
Yes
I'd say the idea is to mimic the southern prosperity, creating new jobs and ancillary jobs by new companies locating to the north.
Getting rid of a lot of the public sector chaff in the north is something we in the south could mimic in return. These people have the prospects of work in these new companies especially in IT and finance ( and administrative supporting) roles.
Pity our lot are too cushy and lazy to bother. But where is the incentive though so you can't ame them. They'd rather sit in their lazy cushy asses. Too many in here are whinging/protesting too much!!
In a voluntary redundancy scheme, do you imagine it's those people you say are sitting on their "lazy cushy asses" who take the risk of redundancy?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on April 06, 2015, 07:17:18 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 06, 2015, 06:17:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2015, 05:58:21 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 06, 2015, 01:02:06 PM


Indeed. Currently here in the North our politicians, driven by Sinn Fein and the DUP, are cutting 20,000 Public sector jobs
in order to cut Corporation tax from 21% to 12.5%. Who does this tax break help? It sure isn't the ordinary worker.


The idea is to have people work for a corporation attracted by a similar tax rate to the 26 counties, rather than being a burden on the taxpayer. Now, you can say that this will not happen, but if no companies come to the North then no tax will be lost. Perhaps the only missing ingredient is some minimum job creation requirement.
Yes
I'd say the idea is to mimic the southern prosperity, creating new jobs and ancillary jobs by new companies locating to the north.
Getting rid of a lot of the public sector chaff in the north is something we in the south could mimic in return. These people have the prospects of work in these new companies especially in IT and finance ( and administrative supporting) roles.
Pity our lot are too cushy and lazy to bother. But where is the incentive though so you can't ame them. They'd rather sit in their lazy cushy asses. Too many in here are whinging/protesting too much!!

I'm actually coming from the opposite end to mikehunt. I can and will pay all taxes etc. I believe that everything should be paid for but everything should be properly proceduralised and all loose ends tied up - such as burst/leaky pipes fixed secured and proper controls in place before accurately charging people. Need to accurately itemize all identified extra taxes on utilities consumption.

Possibly using some of the long term unemployed to assist in public works. Then if a revolution occurred the dross and excess in public sector could be cut too. But that's never going to happen.  There are plenty of people out there with loads of good business ideas. Let's face it , our teacher laden politicians won't come up with inventive commercial plans and programmed.
I'm not against paying for water per se. I'm against it in it's current format. I have no problem paying for something once it's being run efficiently and gives value for money.  Irish water is another quangosauras rex. I'm sick of subsidising those useless twats
They can swing for the water charges in it's current guise. I aint contributing to the bonus for the likes of John Tierney.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on April 06, 2015, 08:20:31 PM
How many people here inadvertantly or otherwise contribute to the race to the bottom?

By that I mean do you give your custom to businesses who have zero hours contracts for example?

And who are these companies?

I believe the extremely well paid unions leadership has let workers down very badly in the last 15 years, but particularly in the last 5. The only plan seems to be to wait for signs of recovery and then demand pay rises. This is the industrial equivalent of goal-hanging. If that is all they are good for they should disband.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on April 06, 2015, 08:34:53 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 06, 2015, 06:55:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2015, 05:58:21 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 06, 2015, 01:02:06 PM


Indeed. Currently here in the North our politicians, driven by Sinn Fein and the DUP, are cutting 20,000 Public sector jobs
in order to cut Corporation tax from 21% to 12.5%. Who does this tax break help? It sure isn't the ordinary worker.


The idea is to have people work for a corporation attracted by a similar tax rate to the 26 counties, rather than being a burden on the taxpayer. Now, you can say that this will not happen, but if no companies come to the North then no tax will be lost. Perhaps the only missing ingredient is some minimum job creation requirement.
But isn't that classic right of centre politics?

Also, I don't understand your comment that if no companies come to the north then no tax will be lost. It WILL. Those companies that currently pay 20% will pay 7.5% less. Unless new companies bridge that gap, taxes are lost, and the difference has to be paid by Stormont to London from the block grant. That's gambling money for health, education, housing, roads etc. on a reduced corporation tax rate. It's a massive risk. It might pay off, it might not. I'm not yet convinced.

Fair point about the existing companies, although there aren't very many of them. That said though, the NI public sector is vastly larger than other parts of these islands, which is unsustainable and will have to change one way or the other. What other strategies exist to promote the private sector to take up the slack?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on April 06, 2015, 10:00:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2015, 08:34:53 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 06, 2015, 06:55:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2015, 05:58:21 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 06, 2015, 01:02:06 PM


Indeed. Currently here in the North our politicians, driven by Sinn Fein and the DUP, are cutting 20,000 Public sector jobs
in order to cut Corporation tax from 21% to 12.5%. Who does this tax break help? It sure isn't the ordinary worker.


The idea is to have people work for a corporation attracted by a similar tax rate to the 26 counties, rather than being a burden on the taxpayer. Now, you can say that this will not happen, but if no companies come to the North then no tax will be lost. Perhaps the only missing ingredient is some minimum job creation requirement.
But isn't that classic right of centre politics?

Also, I don't understand your comment that if no companies come to the north then no tax will be lost. It WILL. Those companies that currently pay 20% will pay 7.5% less. Unless new companies bridge that gap, taxes are lost, and the difference has to be paid by Stormont to London from the block grant. That's gambling money for health, education, housing, roads etc. on a reduced corporation tax rate. It's a massive risk. It might pay off, it might not. I'm not yet convinced.

Fair point about the existing companies, although there aren't very many of them. That said though, the NI public sector is vastly larger than other parts of these islands, which is unsustainable and will have to change one way or the other. What other strategies exist to promote the private sector to take up the slack?
There are 34,000 existing companies who will benefit from the reduction and the cost of lowering the tax rate is estimated at £300m per year. I've read estimates that the private sector would have to grow by 30% to break even with this cut. It's a massive gamble on the public expenditure budget.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on April 06, 2015, 10:53:08 PM
If it doesn't come off our little €160 water charge will be small fry compared to the charges ye'll have up in the North East.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 06, 2015, 11:51:38 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 06, 2015, 07:17:18 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 06, 2015, 06:17:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2015, 05:58:21 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on April 06, 2015, 01:02:06 PM


Indeed. Currently here in the North our politicians, driven by Sinn Fein and the DUP, are cutting 20,000 Public sector jobs
in order to cut Corporation tax from 21% to 12.5%. Who does this tax break help? It sure isn't the ordinary worker.


The idea is to have people work for a corporation attracted by a similar tax rate to the 26 counties, rather than being a burden on the taxpayer. Now, you can say that this will not happen, but if no companies come to the North then no tax will be lost. Perhaps the only missing ingredient is some minimum job creation requirement.
Yes
I'd say the idea is to mimic the southern prosperity, creating new jobs and ancillary jobs by new companies locating to the north.
Getting rid of a lot of the public sector chaff in the north is something we in the south could mimic in return. These people have the prospects of work in these new companies especially in IT and finance ( and administrative supporting) roles.
Pity our lot are too cushy and lazy to bother. But where is the incentive though so you can't ame them. They'd rather sit in their lazy cushy asses. Too many in here are whinging/protesting too much!!

I'm actually coming from the opposite end to mikehunt. I can and will pay all taxes etc. I believe that everything should be paid for but everything should be properly proceduralised and all loose ends tied up - such as burst/leaky pipes fixed secured and proper controls in place before accurately charging people. Need to accurately itemize all identified extra taxes on utilities consumption.

Possibly using some of the long term unemployed to assist in public works. Then if a revolution occurred the dross and excess in public sector could be cut too. But that's never going to happen.  There are plenty of people out there with loads of good business ideas. Let's face it , our teacher laden politicians won't come up with inventive commercial plans and programmed.
I'm not against paying for water per se. I'm against it in it's current format. I have no problem paying for something once it's being run efficiently and gives value for money.  Irish water is another quangosauras rex. I'm sick of subsidising those useless t**ts
They can swing for the water charges in it's current guise. I aint contributing to the bonus for the likes of John Tierney.
Yes that's part of my own issue with irish water. The public sector fcukwits put in charge of this project have no commercial business acumen and seemed to save their energies for devising their bonuses and remuneration over the proper structure and procedures of the new company ( quango).

I've also said before that the unions here are also self serving and not fit for purpose for the people they represent
Let's hope both sets of unfit for purpose sets of wasters get the boot ( across the board in public sector) and we make progress in this country - saving money, creating jobs and efficiencies as we go.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on April 07, 2015, 11:31:28 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 06, 2015, 03:43:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 06, 2015, 12:09:25 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 06, 2015, 10:50:31 AM
As you well know, they aren't labeled as thugs for protesting. They're labeled as thugs for carrying on like savages at some of their protests.

I'd hardly call shouting obsceneties and throwing water balloons thuggish behaviour but each to their own I suppose? What would you call those that protest by way of burning, looting, attacking police? Water protests in Ireland have been peaceful. Only bit of violence I remember was when the guards tried to smash a woman up against a bollard.

I've called referees all sorts of names over the years and I think i used to throw water ballons at halloween. Guess I'm a savage in your eyes too?
By grown men and women? Probably. (The comparison to children throwing water balloons is totally disindisingenuous.)

Childish and at worst civil disobedience is what I'd call it. Those who describe what happened with Burton in Tallaght as thuggish behaviour are a precious bunch. She was called a few names and was hit by a water balloon. This is nothing when compared with what happens over in Europe where protests usually lead to rioting. When you compare it against the guards throwing that woman against a bollard. If protestors had flung a female guard against a bollard like that we'd still be talking about it. As for calling Burton a middle aged woman, she's a politican who along with Kenny, Howlin and Noonan have continued to make spineless decisions which have resulted in the transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. That clown Kenny saying that he told a man who had 2 pints in his hands that it would pay for two weeks water. Tis well for him that he doesn't have to make that choice. As if a good number of people are drinking their welfare money as clowns like Rossfan would lead you to believe.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Feckitt on April 07, 2015, 05:46:59 PM
Why are there so many pronunciations of Fine Gael.  I've always known them as (Finna Gale), and I know that is often pronounced (Finna gwale), but I now increasing hear it pronounced as (Fine gale), fine, as in that's a fine day.  I first heard Pearse Doherty TD use this, and I have now heard Fine Gael TD's using it as well.  What's the craic here?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on April 07, 2015, 07:46:17 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on April 07, 2015, 05:46:59 PM
Why are there so many pronunciations of Fine Gael.  I've always known them as (Finna Gale), and I know that is often pronounced (Finna gwale), but I now increasing hear it pronounced as (Fine gale), fine, as in that's a fine day.  I first heard Pearse Doherty TD use this, and I have now heard Fine Gael TD's using it as well.  What's the craic here?

The phonetic equivalent of 'fine gale' would be 'Sin Feen'. Or 'Fye-anna fail'. Those using it don't cover themselves in glory.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on April 07, 2015, 08:03:42 PM
You'd expect better from a fluent Sinn Féin Gaeilgeoir as Tír Conaill.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 07, 2015, 09:41:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 07, 2015, 08:03:42 PM
You'd expect better from a fluent Sinn Féin Gaeilgeoir as Tír Conaill.

There's plenty of other ways to pronounce Mr Kenny's party including

Shower of [insert expletive here]
Incompetent [insert expletive here]
Self-serving [insert expletive here]
Traitorous [insert expletive here]

etc.

Shame Ross won't see my post. Boo-hoo!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on April 08, 2015, 07:12:09 AM
If only you knew the difference between "describe" and "pronounce". Otherwise, hilarious.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 08, 2015, 03:38:20 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 08, 2015, 07:12:09 AM
If only you knew the difference between "describe" and "pronounce". Otherwise, hilarious.

Tanks for the english lessun. I know what I said.... ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 11, 2015, 10:39:54 PM
I received a very unusual phone call earlier today, presumably Irish Water had something to do with it but I can't be sure.

When the phone rang, I was busy so it took me a ten seconds or so to pick up the phone, switch it on and  then turn on the loudspeaker. It took another few seconds before I realized that I was listening to a recorded message.

Since I had missed the beginning of the recording it was hard to make out what was going on but it appeared that I was  being informed of the conditions under which the famous €100 water conservation grant would be paid. I   was quite busy at the time so I cut proceedings short and hung up.

I waited ten minutes or so and then attempted to ring back but nobody answered. There was no voice mail switchover either.

I tried a couple of times since then but the number is unattended.

Anyone received a similar call or have any notion of what's going on?

Incidentally, the number in question is 0851846813.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on April 11, 2015, 11:34:31 PM
That's probably Fox or Hunt or Lynch.....
Not an I W customer but believe we'll get the €100 as well so would love to know how it works.
Wonder will it be backdated to 1998  :)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 12, 2015, 12:30:11 AM
Ahh
Lazy underworked public sector layabouts looking for money for nothing as usual.  ::)

My hard earned tax money flittered away as expected!
I expect the same with my water tax payment!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 13, 2015, 03:34:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2015, 11:34:31 PM
That's probably Fox or Hunt or Lynch.....
Not an I W customer but believe we'll get the €100 as well so would love to know how it works.
Wonder will it be backdated to 1998  :)

You seem to keep reading my posts and mentioning me in yours...have you a secret crush?
...and I'm sure you won't see this post...*ahem*...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on April 14, 2015, 02:39:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 13, 2015, 03:34:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2015, 11:34:31 PM
That's probably Fox or Hunt or Lynch.....
Not an I W customer but believe we'll get the €100 as well so would love to know how it works.
Wonder will it be backdated to 1998  :)

You seem to keep reading my posts and mentioning me in yours...have you a secret crush?
...and I'm sure you won't see this post...*ahem*...

He's been sending me sweet nothings by pm.  Im ignoring him though.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 15, 2015, 04:34:01 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 14, 2015, 02:39:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 13, 2015, 03:34:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 11, 2015, 11:34:31 PM
That's probably Fox or Hunt or Lynch.....
Not an I W customer but believe we'll get the €100 as well so would love to know how it works.
Wonder will it be backdated to 1998  :)

You seem to keep reading my posts and mentioning me in yours...have you a secret crush?
...and I'm sure you won't see this post...*ahem*...

He's been sending me sweet nothings by pm.  Im ignoring him though.

He's too cheap to use E-Harmony...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on April 15, 2015, 07:51:43 PM
Jays they have been very tardy in doing anything useful, but this is a good idea, if it works: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/repeat-burglars-face-longer-jail-terms-under-new-plan-1.2176064 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/repeat-burglars-face-longer-jail-terms-under-new-plan-1.2176064)

Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald is to introduce tough measures for repeat burglars including consecutive sentences and tougher bail restrictions.

Ms Fitzgerald is to bring a memo to Cabinet on Wednesday seeking a crackdown on repeat offenders. It is expected she will move to allow for consecutive sentencing at District Court level for the first time. Currently, those convicted of multiple offences can serve several sentences concurrently.

The Minister will also strengthen powers of judges to refuse bail to serial burglars. The new restrictions will apply to those who have two or more charges of burglary pending. This is expected to be the first in a series of measures to be announced between her department and the Garda.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on April 21, 2015, 04:23:15 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/td-calls-for-inquiry-into-ibrc-s-sale-of-siteserv-to-denis-o-brien-1.2183766

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 21, 2015, 06:22:50 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 21, 2015, 04:23:15 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/td-calls-for-inquiry-into-ibrc-s-sale-of-siteserv-to-denis-o-brien-1.2183766

What's new? And no point in conducting inquiries until there is an end result (i.e. jail time) for those found guilty.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on April 21, 2015, 06:57:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 21, 2015, 06:22:50 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 21, 2015, 04:23:15 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/td-calls-for-inquiry-into-ibrc-s-sale-of-siteserv-to-denis-o-brien-1.2183766

What's new? And no point in conducting inquiries until there is an end result (i.e. jail time) for those found guilty.

Start with the end result, i.e. jail, and then have the enquiry. A good old fashioned (or more recently fashioned depending on your politics) kangaroo court.  ;D

The bizarre thing about that story is that the Dept. officials are calling on Dukes who was Chairman of IBRC, to conduct the Independent enquiry. That makes no sense at all.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 22, 2015, 04:26:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 21, 2015, 06:57:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 21, 2015, 06:22:50 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 21, 2015, 04:23:15 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/td-calls-for-inquiry-into-ibrc-s-sale-of-siteserv-to-denis-o-brien-1.2183766

What's new? And no point in conducting inquiries until there is an end result (i.e. jail time) for those found guilty.

Start with the end result, i.e. jail, and then have the enquiry. A good old fashioned (or more recently fashioned depending on your politics) kangaroo court.  ;D

The bizarre thing about that story is that the Dept. officials are calling on Dukes who was Chairman of IBRC, to conduct the Independent enquiry. That makes no sense at all.
Dukes was actually a decent enough guy - but his own crew shafted him

however this is a severe conflict of interest and he shouldn't be party to this enquiry!

there will be no one jailed though. Having seen what happened with the lads let off a couple of months ago Fitzpatrick and co
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on April 22, 2015, 04:53:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 22, 2015, 04:26:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 21, 2015, 06:57:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 21, 2015, 06:22:50 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 21, 2015, 04:23:15 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/td-calls-for-inquiry-into-ibrc-s-sale-of-siteserv-to-denis-o-brien-1.2183766

What's new? And no point in conducting inquiries until there is an end result (i.e. jail time) for those found guilty.

Start with the end result, i.e. jail, and then have the enquiry. A good old fashioned (or more recently fashioned depending on your politics) kangaroo court.  ;D

The bizarre thing about that story is that the Dept. officials are calling on Dukes who was Chairman of IBRC, to conduct the Independent enquiry. That makes no sense at all.
Dukes was actually a decent enough guy - but his own crew shafted him

however this is a severe conflict of interest and he shouldn't be party to this enquiry!

there will be no one jailed though. Having seen what happened with the lads let off a couple of months ago Fitzpatrick and co

Fitzpatrick's trial is only starting.

They badly need to get Drumm home to face charges as well.

I am curious though, with all this talk of jail regarding SiteServ, what is the crime? Or does that matter?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 22, 2015, 05:44:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 22, 2015, 04:53:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 22, 2015, 04:26:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 21, 2015, 06:57:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 21, 2015, 06:22:50 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 21, 2015, 04:23:15 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/td-calls-for-inquiry-into-ibrc-s-sale-of-siteserv-to-denis-o-brien-1.2183766

What's new? And no point in conducting inquiries until there is an end result (i.e. jail time) for those found guilty.

Start with the end result, i.e. jail, and then have the enquiry. A good old fashioned (or more recently fashioned depending on your politics) kangaroo court.  ;D

The bizarre thing about that story is that the Dept. officials are calling on Dukes who was Chairman of IBRC, to conduct the Independent enquiry. That makes no sense at all.
Dukes was actually a decent enough guy - but his own crew shafted him

however this is a severe conflict of interest and he shouldn't be party to this enquiry!

there will be no one jailed though. Having seen what happened with the lads let off a couple of months ago Fitzpatrick and co

Fitzpatrick's trial is only starting.

They badly need to get Drumm home to face charges as well.

I am curious though, with all this talk of jail regarding SiteServ, what is the crime? Or does that matter?
Didn't Fitzpatrick and a couple of cohorts not get off late last year with some charges ( fraud?)
Maybe he has another case coming up.

But what's the point. I can't see him or drum being done. What they did was unethical rather than illegal given the lack of legal regulation around at the time
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on April 22, 2015, 05:50:31 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 22, 2015, 05:44:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 22, 2015, 04:53:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 22, 2015, 04:26:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 21, 2015, 06:57:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 21, 2015, 06:22:50 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 21, 2015, 04:23:15 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/td-calls-for-inquiry-into-ibrc-s-sale-of-siteserv-to-denis-o-brien-1.2183766

What's new? And no point in conducting inquiries until there is an end result (i.e. jail time) for those found guilty.

Start with the end result, i.e. jail, and then have the enquiry. A good old fashioned (or more recently fashioned depending on your politics) kangaroo court.  ;D

The bizarre thing about that story is that the Dept. officials are calling on Dukes who was Chairman of IBRC, to conduct the Independent enquiry. That makes no sense at all.
Dukes was actually a decent enough guy - but his own crew shafted him

however this is a severe conflict of interest and he shouldn't be party to this enquiry!

there will be no one jailed though. Having seen what happened with the lads let off a couple of months ago Fitzpatrick and co

Fitzpatrick's trial is only starting.

They badly need to get Drumm home to face charges as well.

I am curious though, with all this talk of jail regarding SiteServ, what is the crime? Or does that matter?
Didn't Fitzpatrick and a couple of cohorts not get off late last year with some charges ( fraud?)
Maybe he has another case coming up.

But what's the point. I can't see him or drum being done. What they did was unethical rather than illegal given the lack of legal regulation around at the time

He wasn't part of it, it was some former directors of Anglo.

Here is his latest gig: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/seán-fitzpatrick-jurors-told-not-to-serve-if-they-had-bank-shares-1.2175370 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/se%C3%A1n-fitzpatrick-jurors-told-not-to-serve-if-they-had-bank-shares-1.2175370)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on April 23, 2015, 12:08:03 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/dukes-contradicts-noonan-s-d%C3%A1il-account-about-siteserv-1.2185503

i hope all u folk that want water charges are happy that O'Brien got 100m written off the Siteserve debt and was immediately awarded the lucrative meter installation contract. There are rumours that the contracts were awarded to the newly formed company (GMC Sierra) on the exact same day that it became a company. The turnaround between application and approval was conveniently rushed. 5m kicked back to shareholders whose shares were pretty much worthless (Equity holders (Board of Directors) were placed ahead of debt (Irish Taxpayers) in the creditors list which is unheard of). IBRC as the so called representatives for the Irish Taxpayers had little or no input in the negotiations. Potentially higher bids were ignored. Board of directors acted on behalf of the Irish tax payers and awarded themselves 5m and left the taxpayer to swing for 100m . Solicitors for the purchaser and seller were the same law firm. Again O Brien is not the real culprit here, he just took advantage of the situation. He was informed all the way by insiders who were supposed to be acting in the best interests of the taxpayer. Best little country to do business in, indeed Edna, indeed.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on April 23, 2015, 01:40:08 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 23, 2015, 12:08:03 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/dukes-contradicts-noonan-s-d%C3%A1il-account-about-siteserv-1.2185503

i hope all u folk that want water charges are happy that O'Brien got 100m written off the Siteserve debt and was immediately awarded the lucrative meter installation contract. There are rumours that the contracts were awarded to the newly formed company (GMC Sierra) on the exact same day that it became a company. The turnaround between application and approval was conveniently rushed. 5m kicked back to shareholders whose shares were pretty much worthless (Equity holders (Board of Directors) were placed ahead of debt (Irish Taxpayers) in the creditors list which is unheard of). IBRC as the so called representatives for the Irish Taxpayers had little or no input in the negotiations. Potentially higher bids were ignored. Board of directors acted on behalf of the Irish tax payers and awarded themselves 5m and left the taxpayer to swing for 100m . Solicitors for the purchaser and seller were the same law firm. Again O Brien is not the real culprit here, he just took advantage of the situation. He was informed all the way by insiders who were supposed to be acting in the best interests of the taxpayer. Best little country to do business in, indeed Edna, indeed.

Rumours?? GMC Sierra a newly formed company?? According to their company website, they've been around a lot longer than that http://www.gmcirl.com/water/ (http://www.gmcirl.com/water/)

There may well be a case to answer or it could be legit deal but clowns like you making up "rumours" to suit your agenda sickens my hole
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on April 23, 2015, 01:56:02 PM
Sierra part was formed in late 70s and of course most famous for sponsoring the All-Ireland Roscommon minor team in 2006.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on April 23, 2015, 03:16:27 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 23, 2015, 01:40:08 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 23, 2015, 12:08:03 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/dukes-contradicts-noonan-s-d%C3%A1il-account-about-siteserv-1.2185503

i hope all u folk that want water charges are happy that O'Brien got 100m written off the Siteserve debt and was immediately awarded the lucrative meter installation contract. There are rumours that the contracts were awarded to the newly formed company (GMC Sierra) on the exact same day that it became a company. The turnaround between application and approval was conveniently rushed. 5m kicked back to shareholders whose shares were pretty much worthless (Equity holders (Board of Directors) were placed ahead of debt (Irish Taxpayers) in the creditors list which is unheard of). IBRC as the so called representatives for the Irish Taxpayers had little or no input in the negotiations. Potentially higher bids were ignored. Board of directors acted on behalf of the Irish tax payers and awarded themselves 5m and left the taxpayer to swing for 100m . Solicitors for the purchaser and seller were the same law firm. Again O Brien is not the real culprit here, he just took advantage of the situation. He was informed all the way by insiders who were supposed to be acting in the best interests of the taxpayer. Best little country to do business in, indeed Edna, indeed.

Rumours?? GMC Sierra a newly formed company?? According to their company website, they've been around a lot longer than that http://www.gmcirl.com/water/ (http://www.gmcirl.com/water/)

There may well be a case to answer or it could be legit deal but clowns like you making up "rumours" to suit your agenda sickens my hole

26th July 2013, Irish Water announced the appointment of GMC/Sierra as one of the main regional contractors engaged by Irish Water to manage the Meter installation Programme. BUT...GMC/Sierra (Company Number 530230) applied for registration as a NEW company with Denis O'Brien as a director on the 11th of July 2013.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on April 23, 2015, 03:33:50 PM
So is this fact or rumour??


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on April 23, 2015, 03:48:48 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 23, 2015, 03:33:50 PM
So is this fact or rumour??

Companies Office is open to the public. Ull not take the word of a clown so off you pop and find out for ureself.

Diff registered addresses but at the same location.

1. GMC Group
GMC House
Millennium Business Park
Cappagh Road
Ballycoolin
Dublin 11
2. GMC GROUP,
GMC HOUSE,
MILLENIUM BUSINESS PARK,
BALLYCOOLIN,
DUBLIN 15
3. G.M.C. HOUSE
MILLENNIUM BUSINESS PARK
CAPPAGH ROAD
FINGLAS WEST
DUBLIN 11
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on April 23, 2015, 04:22:46 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 23, 2015, 03:48:48 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 23, 2015, 03:33:50 PM
So is this fact or rumour??

Companies Office is open to the public. Ull not take the word of a clown so off you pop and find out for ureself.

Diff registered addresses but at the same location.

1. GMC Group
GMC House
Millennium Business Park
Cappagh Road
Ballycoolin
Dublin 11
2. GMC GROUP,
GMC HOUSE,
MILLENIUM BUSINESS PARK,
BALLYCOOLIN,
DUBLIN 15
3. G.M.C. HOUSE
MILLENNIUM BUSINESS PARK
CAPPAGH ROAD
FINGLAS WEST
DUBLIN 11

TBF, you're the one who said it was a rumour. Or is the rumour the piece about contracts being awarded on the day it was formed?

Either way, what's the implication of this? What exactly are you saying is wrong / illegal / whatever? GMC seem to be reputable company with some experience in this so they seem like a reasonable winner of the contract
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 23, 2015, 04:31:49 PM
(https://scontent-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/p235x350/11159537_975059305839820_1147257867944323879_n.jpg?oh=97dd8f233f686796ac8fcf82daa849eb&oe=55D40836)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on April 23, 2015, 04:50:45 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 23, 2015, 04:22:46 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 23, 2015, 03:48:48 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 23, 2015, 03:33:50 PM
So is this fact or rumour??

Companies Office is open to the public. Ull not take the word of a clown so off you pop and find out for ureself.

Diff registered addresses but at the same location.

1. GMC Group
GMC House
Millennium Business Park
Cappagh Road
Ballycoolin
Dublin 11
2. GMC GROUP,
GMC HOUSE,
MILLENIUM BUSINESS PARK,
BALLYCOOLIN,
DUBLIN 15
3. G.M.C. HOUSE
MILLENNIUM BUSINESS PARK
CAPPAGH ROAD
FINGLAS WEST
DUBLIN 11

TBF, you're the one who said it was a rumour. Or is the rumour the piece about contracts being awarded on the day it was formed?

Either way, what's the implication of this? What exactly are you saying is wrong / illegal / whatever? GMC seem to be reputable company with some experience in this so they seem like a reasonable winner of the contract

it stinks to high heaven yet u directed all ure ire towards something i labelled as a rumour and conveniently ignored the rest of my post. I didn't label it as fact because I can't prove it from where I'm sitting however the blame game and denials from Dukes, Kenny and Noonan would indicate something is up. just waiting for some new revelations about Sinn Fein to come up, possibly an arrest of an independant TD. Anything but the truth about how taxpayers money is being siphoned off to the rich, something i imagine doesn't sicken your precious hole.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 23, 2015, 05:03:43 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 23, 2015, 04:50:45 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 23, 2015, 04:22:46 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 23, 2015, 03:48:48 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 23, 2015, 03:33:50 PM
So is this fact or rumour??

Companies Office is open to the public. Ull not take the word of a clown so off you pop and find out for ureself.

Diff registered addresses but at the same location.

1. GMC Group
GMC House
Millennium Business Park
Cappagh Road
Ballycoolin
Dublin 11
2. GMC GROUP,
GMC HOUSE,
MILLENIUM BUSINESS PARK,
BALLYCOOLIN,
DUBLIN 15
3. G.M.C. HOUSE
MILLENNIUM BUSINESS PARK
CAPPAGH ROAD
FINGLAS WEST
DUBLIN 11

TBF, you're the one who said it was a rumour. Or is the rumour the piece about contracts being awarded on the day it was formed?

Either way, what's the implication of this? What exactly are you saying is wrong / illegal / whatever? GMC seem to be reputable company with some experience in this so they seem like a reasonable winner of the contract

it stinks to high heaven yet u directed all ure ire towards something i labelled as a rumour and conveniently ignored the rest of my post. I didn't label it as fact because I can't prove it from where I'm sitting however the blame game and denials from Dukes, Kenny and Noonan would indicate something is up. just waiting for some new revelations about Sinn Fein to come up, possibly an arrest of an independant TD. Anything but the truth about how taxpayers money is being siphoned off to the rich, something i imagine doesn't sicken your precious hole.

You know how hard is is to write off a 110 million debt?  ;D
Stroke of a pen

then I came across this nugget..guiding change...and who's this "us" he wants to enrich?

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ZKepX8VopRQ/Steedr1sw-I/AAAAAAAACB8/Nxec7nqUqLk/s800/dukesfgjoina.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on April 23, 2015, 09:53:04 PM
So the McDonald page has turned into a JOM blueshirt one. It's time for the political stuff to be in the General section. It appears the FG hierarchy are fearing for poor Johnno. To be honest, I don't think they'll get 3 seats in Mayo anyway. Ring to romp home, and Kenny limping home with Ring's transfers.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on April 24, 2015, 08:52:37 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on April 23, 2015, 04:50:45 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 23, 2015, 04:22:46 PM
TBF, you're the one who said it was a rumour. Or is the rumour the piece about contracts being awarded on the day it was formed?

Either way, what's the implication of this? What exactly are you saying is wrong / illegal / whatever? GMC seem to be reputable company with some experience in this so they seem like a reasonable winner of the contract

it stinks to high heaven yet u directed all ure ire towards something i labelled as a rumour and conveniently ignored the rest of my post. I didn't label it as fact because I can't prove it from where I'm sitting however the blame game and denials from Dukes, Kenny and Noonan would indicate something is up. just waiting for some new revelations about Sinn Fein to come up, possibly an arrest of an independant TD. Anything but the truth about how taxpayers money is being siphoned off to the rich, something i imagine doesn't sicken your precious hole.

I suspect I'm wasting my time here but anyway...........

You posted a link about the Siteserv story which definitely needs to be investigated to see whether it was legit or not.

Alongside this, you posted a that "There are rumours that the contracts were awarded to the newly formed company (GMC Sierra) on the exact same day that it became a company". Apart from Denis O'Brien being involved in both, how exactly are these stories related? It's simply a tactic by the anti-paying for water people to link two stories which have absolutely nothing in common. You're not even making any sort of allegations (other than "stinking to high heaven") in relation to the GMC/Sierra piece, just attempting to link it another story in the news. Obviously when you don't make a concrete allegation of wrongdoing then you're in the pretty safe position of having nothing to stand over

Out of interest, if there are three GMC-Sierra companies registered to the same address (one new and two pre-existing), do you know which of the three won the water meter installation contract??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on April 24, 2015, 02:07:07 PM
yes u are wasting ure time. there are similarities between this and Esat. It should be at the very least investigated. Because there is previous with this carry on they will have covered their tracks well, they have plenty of practice. Then you can come back and say "see I told u so, nothing to see here, now move along"
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Smokin Joe on April 24, 2015, 06:50:19 PM
Alan Dukes gave his side of the story on The Last Word this evening.  I'm sure you can listen back somehow; he was on at 5.15 (ie 45 mins into the program).

The most interesting bit was that he laid into the Senior Civil Servant in DoF and claimed that said civil servant wanted to be on the Board of IRBC so that he could railroad decisions at the Board Table.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 25, 2015, 07:56:30 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 24, 2015, 06:50:19 PM
Alan Dukes gave his side of the story on The Last Word this evening.  I'm sure you can listen back somehow; he was on at 5.15 (ie 45 mins into the program).

The most interesting bit was that he laid into the Senior Civil Servant in DoF and claimed that said civil servant wanted to be on the Board of IRBC so that he could railroad decisions at the Board Table.

The gravy train might have gone off the rails if that had happened....can't have that...
Well done Alan. Make sure you look after your buds.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on April 26, 2015, 09:44:35 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 25, 2015, 07:56:30 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 24, 2015, 06:50:19 PM
Alan Dukes gave his side of the story on The Last Word this evening.  I'm sure you can listen back somehow; he was on at 5.15 (ie 45 mins into the program).

The most interesting bit was that he laid into the Senior Civil Servant in DoF and claimed that said civil servant wanted to be on the Board of IRBC so that he could railroad decisions at the Board Table.

The gravy train might have gone off the rails if that had happened....can't have that...
Well done Alan. Make sure you look after your buds.
So do you think the Civil Servant should have been on the Board?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on April 26, 2015, 11:00:40 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 26, 2015, 09:44:35 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 25, 2015, 07:56:30 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 24, 2015, 06:50:19 PM
Alan Dukes gave his side of the story on The Last Word this evening.  I'm sure you can listen back somehow; he was on at 5.15 (ie 45 mins into the program).

The most interesting bit was that he laid into the Senior Civil Servant in DoF and claimed that said civil servant wanted to be on the Board of IRBC so that he could railroad decisions at the Board Table.

The gravy train might have gone off the rails if that had happened....can't have that...
Well done Alan. Make sure you look after your buds.
So do you think the Civil Servant should have been on the Board?

Why bother?

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 27, 2015, 04:31:08 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 26, 2015, 09:44:35 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 25, 2015, 07:56:30 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 24, 2015, 06:50:19 PM
Alan Dukes gave his side of the story on The Last Word this evening.  I'm sure you can listen back somehow; he was on at 5.15 (ie 45 mins into the program).

The most interesting bit was that he laid into the Senior Civil Servant in DoF and claimed that said civil servant wanted to be on the Board of IRBC so that he could railroad decisions at the Board Table.

The gravy train might have gone off the rails if that had happened....can't have that...
Well done Alan. Make sure you look after your buds.
So do you think the Civil Servant should have been on the Board?
There was a reason Dukes didn't want him there. We'll never know.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on April 27, 2015, 06:15:15 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 27, 2015, 04:31:08 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 26, 2015, 09:44:35 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 25, 2015, 07:56:30 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 24, 2015, 06:50:19 PM
Alan Dukes gave his side of the story on The Last Word this evening.  I'm sure you can listen back somehow; he was on at 5.15 (ie 45 mins into the program).

The most interesting bit was that he laid into the Senior Civil Servant in DoF and claimed that said civil servant wanted to be on the Board of IRBC so that he could railroad decisions at the Board Table.

The gravy train might have gone off the rails if that had happened....can't have that...
Well done Alan. Make sure you look after your buds.
So do you think the Civil Servant should have been on the Board?
There was a reason Dukes didn't want him there. We'll never know.
That's not answering the question.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 27, 2015, 06:17:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 27, 2015, 06:15:15 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 27, 2015, 04:31:08 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 26, 2015, 09:44:35 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 25, 2015, 07:56:30 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 24, 2015, 06:50:19 PM
Alan Dukes gave his side of the story on The Last Word this evening.  I'm sure you can listen back somehow; he was on at 5.15 (ie 45 mins into the program).

The most interesting bit was that he laid into the Senior Civil Servant in DoF and claimed that said civil servant wanted to be on the Board of IRBC so that he could railroad decisions at the Board Table.

The gravy train might have gone off the rails if that had happened....can't have that...
Well done Alan. Make sure you look after your buds.
So do you think the Civil Servant should have been on the Board?
There was a reason Dukes didn't want him there. We'll never know.
That's not answering the question.

Kind of irrelevant now isn't it?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on April 27, 2015, 07:32:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 27, 2015, 06:17:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 27, 2015, 06:15:15 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 27, 2015, 04:31:08 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on April 26, 2015, 09:44:35 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 25, 2015, 07:56:30 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 24, 2015, 06:50:19 PM
Alan Dukes gave his side of the story on The Last Word this evening.  I'm sure you can listen back somehow; he was on at 5.15 (ie 45 mins into the program).

The most interesting bit was that he laid into the Senior Civil Servant in DoF and claimed that said civil servant wanted to be on the Board of IRBC so that he could railroad decisions at the Board Table.

The gravy train might have gone off the rails if that had happened....can't have that...
Well done Alan. Make sure you look after your buds.
So do you think the Civil Servant should have been on the Board?
There was a reason Dukes didn't want him there. We'll never know.
That's not answering the question.

Kind of irrelevant now isn't it?
It was clearly relevant enough for you to make your initial comment. But if you don't want to answer the question, that's fine.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 08:22:45 PM
Seems like Richard Bruton is being shafted by his own party in the run up to the next election.

He's probably one of the only TD's in that party that is actually a competent politician. Still a shame he didn't win that leadership vote.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0430/697973-fine-gael/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on May 01, 2015, 11:45:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 08:22:45 PM
Seems like Richard Bruton is being shafted by his own party in the run up to the next election.

He's probably one of the only TD's in that party that is actually a competent politician. Still a shame he didn't win that leadership vote.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0430/697973-fine-gael/
I live in his constituency and we are on first name terms. I always found him to be hard-working and diligent, a man anyone could go to with a problem and be sure of a quick reply. 

I've had no problem giving him my number one for a few past elections and I'll probably do the same, all going well, next time around.

However, I'm glad he didn't win  the last leadership push as I think he'd be out of his depth if he ever became Taoiseach.

The way Enda tied him. Shatter, Coveney and the rest of the rebels up in knots  is the reason why I say this.

The best and brightest of what FG had to offer were shown up to be incompetent gobshites. If ever there was an instance of pushing an open door this was it. The softest thing about Enda is his teeth, as poor Richard found out to his cost.     
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on May 01, 2015, 11:53:29 PM
Spot on there, Lar.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 02, 2015, 12:02:37 AM
Bruton mustn't be too popular with the grass roots blue shirts or was there a set up ?
As for the next General Election.... I presume most of the "middle income" people will be voting FG as they will be getting more take home pay and quite frankly they have no alternative.
Ogle still trying to get a " left wing alliance" going but with Mary Lou sticking her nose in it will either be hijacked by SF or sidelined by them.No matter - they will always be in opposition anyway.
FF - I wonder will the Builders and Auctioneers even vote for them next time?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 02, 2015, 12:05:35 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 02, 2015, 12:02:37 AM
Bruton mustn't be too popular with the grass roots blue shirts or was there a set up ?

it was a set up. FG HQ ordered that two candidates be nominated, including one woman, but the former Lord Mayor guy was popular. So he persuaded people to vote for him and the token woman, on the basis that FG HQ would then have to add Bruton to the ticket, which is exactly what happened.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 06, 2015, 02:27:45 PM
What a bargain.
All those teachers in government but maths ain't their strong suit

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-water-abolish-cost-2074008-Apr2015/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on May 06, 2015, 04:17:48 PM
Is what you'd be in favour of foxy??

http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-water-charges-alternative-2035337-Apr2015/

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on May 06, 2015, 06:44:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 06, 2015, 02:27:45 PM
What a bargain.
All those teachers in government but maths ain't their strong suit

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-water-abolish-cost-2074008-Apr2015/
Can you explain what's wrong with the maths, and what the correct figure should be?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 06, 2015, 07:28:50 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on May 06, 2015, 04:17:48 PM
Is what you'd be in favour of foxy??

http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-water-charges-alternative-2035337-Apr2015/

It's closer than the current plan.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on May 06, 2015, 07:35:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 06, 2015, 06:44:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 06, 2015, 02:27:45 PM
What a bargain.
All those teachers in government but maths ain't their strong suit

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-water-abolish-cost-2074008-Apr2015/
Can you explain what's wrong with the maths, and what the correct figure should be?

As always with SF, the correct figure is 'someone else can pay for it'.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 06, 2015, 07:42:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 06, 2015, 06:44:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 06, 2015, 02:27:45 PM
What a bargain.
All those teachers in government but maths ain't their strong suit

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-water-abolish-cost-2074008-Apr2015/
Can you explain what's wrong with the maths, and what the correct figure should be?

300 + 600 = 900. That part is right. Well done Brendan.

I'd like to see real world figures, not some lazy estimate. So everything the capital entails (600 million) is written off or can't be re-purposed? It seems like scaremongering to me.

Maybe they can store the stuff to mothball along with E-Voting machines.

I'm guessing he's using these figures for his capital. From Wikipedia

In 2013, €326 million was allocated by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government for infrastructural spending on water. An increase in infrastructural investment is needed, however, with a 2011 assessment by PwC on transferring responsibility for water services from a local authority to a national utility assuming in its analysis that €600 million of capital investment is needed annually (excluding the cost of the current metering programme and increased efficiencies in infrastructural spending).
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on May 06, 2015, 09:16:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 06, 2015, 07:42:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 06, 2015, 06:44:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 06, 2015, 02:27:45 PM
What a bargain.
All those teachers in government but maths ain't their strong suit

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-water-abolish-cost-2074008-Apr2015/
Can you explain what's wrong with the maths, and what the correct figure should be?

300 + 600 = 900. That part is right. Well done Brendan.

I'd like to see real world figures, not some lazy estimate. So everything the capital entails (600 million) is written off or can't be re-purposed? It seems like scaremongering to me.
The point is that a semi-state like Irish Water can borrow the money for investing in infrastructure from other sources. If Irish Water is abolished and it becomes the responsibility of central or local government, that borrowing stays on the government's books as a liability. It's an accounting issue, but an important one. So it's not about "writing off" or "re-purposing" 600m, because the money still needs to be spent. But if you keep it on the balance sheet, then you have to take that money away from other areas of government spending, or you impact on the deficit.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on May 06, 2015, 09:20:20 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 06, 2015, 09:16:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 06, 2015, 07:42:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 06, 2015, 06:44:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 06, 2015, 02:27:45 PM
What a bargain.
All those teachers in government but maths ain't their strong suit

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-water-abolish-cost-2074008-Apr2015/
Can you explain what's wrong with the maths, and what the correct figure should be?

300 + 600 = 900. That part is right. Well done Brendan.

I'd like to see real world figures, not some lazy estimate. So everything the capital entails (600 million) is written off or can't be re-purposed? It seems like scaremongering to me.
The point is that a semi-state like Irish Water can borrow the money for investing in infrastructure from other sources. If Irish Water is abolished and it becomes the responsibility of central or local government, that borrowing stays on the government's books as a liability. It's an accounting issue, but an important one. So it's not about "writing off" or "re-purposing" 600m, because the money still needs to be spent. But if you keep it on the balance sheet, then you have to take that money away from other areas of government spending, or you impact on the deficit.

It is a populist issue now.

Even Micheál Martin is calling for it to be scrapped ffs. This despite him being a minister in the Government that led us into, and signed off on, the IMF/EU bailout that forced us to introduce water charges in the first place.

But some of the electorate has the attention span of Homer Simpson.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 06, 2015, 11:36:22 PM
People can be led by demagogues with simplifications of reality, as Irish water and the marriage referendum indicate.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on May 07, 2015, 12:07:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 06, 2015, 11:36:22 PM
People can be led by demagogues with simplifications of reality, as Irish water and the marriage referendum indicate.

Or religions and terrorists.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 28, 2015, 04:14:35 AM
Fine Gael and Labour certainly are doing their best to sell off Aer Lingus as quickly as possible. Anyone know if Denis bought any shares in them recently?

This heathrow slot fiasco is pretty transparent, once the deal is done there will be a few years of it continuing then it will be pulled.
Nothing can be done to get them back and Ireland no longer has access to one of the world's biggest hubs.

Anyone fancy a train ride from Gatwick to Heathrow to get your trip to most far flung places? Me neither.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on May 29, 2015, 05:10:22 PM
The Dinny Gael 5 point plan for Irish Water

Get Dinny a tasty debt write down at a favourable interest rate (at tax payers expense) = CHECK,
Sell Dinny a State owned Asset at knock down price (at taxpayers expense) = Check (times 3),
Get state to award u sweet contract = Check.
Silence incompliant media from reporting on these issues and use compliant media (owned by Dinny) to brainwash the goons into paying for water they already pay for  = Check.
Tell them it's for "infrastructure" and hope they swallow it = Check

Nothing to see here, look over there FIFA corruption!!!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 29, 2015, 10:53:54 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on May 29, 2015, 05:10:22 PM
The Dinny Gael 5 point plan for Irish Water

Get Dinny a tasty debt write down at a favourable interest rate (at tax payers expense) = CHECK,
Sell Dinny a State owned Asset at knock down price (at taxpayers expense) = Check (times 3),
Get state to award u sweet contract = Check.
Silence incompliant media from reporting on these issues and use compliant media (owned by Dinny) to brainwash the goons into paying for water they already pay for  = Check.
Tell them it's for "infrastructure" and hope they swallow it = Check

Nothing to see here, look over there FIFA corruption!!!!

Why doesn't Sepp get an injunction against RTE? Seems a fairly easy thing to do.

Enda is wondering why he didn't think of it first. Ban all reporting from the Dail.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 31, 2015, 12:56:55 PM
FG and Lab up again in latest RedC poll. FF and SF and the uncle tom Cobley and all slipping.
Mind you in the only real vote lately FF got 28%, FG 21, SF 16, Lab 6 or 7, Lucylùlàs 9 and the rest.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on June 03, 2015, 11:07:29 AM
The worms are slithering out of the can and the Blueshirts are squirming with them as the goings on with Siteserve, Dinny Gael and IBRC just won't go away. Fair play to that "lefty loon" Catherine Murphy for refusing to be bullied both within the Dail and outside it.

Not a word about it from the likes of Rossfan and being the sadist he is just loves getting rode by the powers that be.

Look over there, FIFA corruption!!!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on June 05, 2015, 01:15:56 PM
Constitutional crisis going on over the last week and our "great leader" nowhere to be seen. Up he pops to plug an American Football match yesterday. Jesus wept. Surprised his handlers let him out even for that.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/american-football-back-in-dublin-in-2016-680172.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 05, 2015, 03:28:54 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on June 05, 2015, 01:15:56 PM
Constitutional crisis going on over the last week and our "great leader" nowhere to be seen. Up he pops to plug an American Football match yesterday. Jesus wept. Surprised his handlers let him out even for that.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/american-football-back-in-dublin-in-2016-680172.html

If it's Boston College playing maybe Anthony MacIntyre can do the half-time draw. Top prize will be some tapes.
Bet the RUC will win it.

Enda staying quiet these days alright...there's leadership for you.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: SLIGONIAN on June 20, 2015, 12:03:13 PM
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/its-as-though-they-despise-democracy-31300688.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 24, 2015, 07:53:48 PM
Good man Sean...man of the people.

https://uplift.ie/ttip-no-dirty-deal/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on July 15, 2015, 11:20:48 AM
http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-water-payments-2216990-Jul2015/

Paul Murphy can toddle along to the Dail today and ask Inda where is he going to get the money to finance the latest quango. Irish Water workers in the LRC as they have have not been paid their "bonuses" yet. Well we can only hope that the govt step in and ensure that these poor souls are looked after, even if it means it will be at the cost of Cleary's workers. Hopefully the majority do not resort to gutter sniping tactics of the minority who have decided to fund this joke of a set up. I do not include those who were bullied in to paying this. They now know this is a dead horse and should join the majority and stop financing this latest attempt at moving wealth from the poor to the rich.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on July 28, 2015, 01:18:45 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-water-must-stay-on-state-balance-sheet-eu-says-1.2299128

They literally wouldn't run a bath.  ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on September 04, 2015, 04:31:52 PM
Clare Daly better stick to the mineral water for a while.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/enda-kenny-disconnect-from-reality-evidenced-again-by-fennelly-report-351921.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on September 12, 2015, 07:45:06 PM
Latest poll shows government with chances of re-election. In a land of the totally useless politician why get rid of the merely useless when the economy is growing at 6%.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 12, 2015, 09:00:13 PM
There's not much alternative is there?
Fianna Friggin Fàil who wrecked the Country, Sinn Féin whose mates tried to wreck it and whose nonsense populist policies will wreck it. Anyway they are only putting up 46 candidates so can'tform a Government.
Then there's a plethora of Independents and Loonylefties and righties who are destined to sit forever in the Bold Corner railing against everyone and everything.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on September 12, 2015, 09:26:02 PM
Remember how many posters said this government wouldn't last anywhere close to full term? I'd say there's a decent chance they'll be re-elected, albeit they'll probably need a couple of others to prop them up.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on September 24, 2015, 09:34:43 PM
Will be more of this then....

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/image-of-elderly-woman-begging-on-dublin-street-causes-outcry-1.2364730

Thanks Enda.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on September 28, 2015, 10:47:42 PM
Here's the latest pipe dreams via RTE.ie.
Been waiting quite a while for this rail link to the airport lads...sure won't we get re-elected if we tell them more lies begorrah.



The Government will tomorrow announce a multi-billion euro funding plan for capital projects from 2016 to 2021.

Key areas include transport, education, health, housing and flood protection.

A mid-term review of the plan will take place in 2017 and new rules for public-private partnerships will also be announced.

A rail link from Dublin city centre to Dublin Airport and onto Swords will be the centrepiece of the transport plan.

There has been increasing speculation about a revised metro plan and that is now a very strong option.

Passenger capacity, the number of stations and the overground elements will be of interest.

The transport plan, which also includes a roads investment plan, will run over a seven-year period.

€3bn is going to be spent on education.

This will be allocated to school building or extensions, third-level investment and information technology initiatives.

The particular schools that will form part of the school building programme will not be named tomorrow. They are expected to be outlined in a few weeks.

To deal with rising enrollments, funding is going to be provided for an additional 19,000 primary school places by 2018 and for more than 40,000 secondary school places by 2022.

There will also be a pledge to eliminate the use of prefabs.

With health, it was revealed recently that €450m will be invested in refurbishing or replacing State-run nursing homes.

There will also be new primary care centres - the locations will not be announced tomorrow.

€1bn will be spent on flood prevention over ten years.

300 areas have been identified as at risk by the OPW and funding will be provided for 200-250 projects.

The State currently funds six major flooding relief projects a year.

Under the plan this will rise to 24 a year at its peak.

The social housing plan will be extended by a year and an additional €500-600 million is going to be provided.

€3.8bn funding was announced previously by the Government up to 2020.

A further €200m was pledged by the European Investment Bank.

A refurbishment programme for regional garda stations will also be funded.

Overall specific projects in terms of schools, primary care centres or flood relief schemes will not be named tomorrow and close attention will be paid to what projects have won out as well as the ones that have been dropped.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on September 29, 2015, 04:58:18 PM
Good to see Enda's crew in the justice system are finally persistent in taking the right people to court. Should have jailed her.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0929/731102-satellite-dish/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on September 29, 2015, 05:41:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 29, 2015, 04:58:18 PM
Good to see Enda's crew in the justice system are finally persistent in taking the right people to court. Should have jailed her.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0929/731102-satellite-dish/

The Shinners/Provos would've kneecapped her. Or 'disappeared' her.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on September 29, 2015, 09:15:13 PM
Quote from: heffo on September 29, 2015, 05:41:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 29, 2015, 04:58:18 PM
Good to see Enda's crew in the justice system are finally persistent in taking the right people to court. Should have jailed her.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0929/731102-satellite-dish/

The Shinners/Provos would've kneecapped her. Or 'disappeared' her.
any info you have bring it to the authorities..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 11:33:46 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 29, 2015, 04:58:18 PM
Good to see Enda's crew in the justice system are finally persistent in taking the right people to court. Should have jailed her.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0929/731102-satellite-dish/

By common sense I'm guessing Inda is advocating crucifixion here. An old helpless woman is just the type of person this govt will chase to fund the wealthy and powerful.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 11:37:25 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 11:33:46 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 29, 2015, 04:58:18 PM
Good to see Enda's crew in the justice system are finally persistent in taking the right people to court. Should have jailed her.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0929/731102-satellite-dish/

By common sense I'm guessing Inda is advocating crucifixion here. An old helpless woman is just the type of person this govt will chase to fund the wealthy and powerful.
Have you ever heard of separation of powers??   ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 30, 2015, 12:06:39 PM
Mac - I've blocked those 2 clowns around a year ago.
The 2 quotes you've used re affirms my belief in the correctness of my action.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 02:52:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 30, 2015, 12:06:39 PM
Mac - I've blocked those 2 clowns around a year ago.
The 2 quotes you've used re affirms my belief in the correctness of my action.

and we miss you so much :D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 03:50:01 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 11:37:25 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 11:33:46 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 29, 2015, 04:58:18 PM
Good to see Enda's crew in the justice system are finally persistent in taking the right people to court. Should have jailed her.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0929/731102-satellite-dish/

By common sense I'm guessing Inda is advocating crucifixion here. An old helpless woman is just the type of person this govt will chase to fund the wealthy and powerful.
Have you ever heard of separation of powers??   ::)

Does your definition of "separation of powers" include Purcell's visit to Martin Callinan at the behest of our dear leader? The Fennelly Report suggests that this intervention directly resulted in the resignation of Callinan, something that a Taoiseach is not permitted to do.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 03:55:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 30, 2015, 12:06:39 PM
Mac - I've blocked those 2 clowns around a year ago.
The 2 quotes you've used re affirms my belief in the correctness of my action.

Rossfan, the purpose of a forum is that people discuss topics and sometimes give their opinions. U seem to block anyone that points out flaws in your arguments and you always seem to play the man rather than the ball. Your constant use of the term "lefty loons" always make me laugh as it is the unions who ensure your inflated public service salary is maintained. Now go back and enjoy that trough!!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 03:58:35 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 03:50:01 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 11:37:25 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 11:33:46 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 29, 2015, 04:58:18 PM
Good to see Enda's crew in the justice system are finally persistent in taking the right people to court. Should have jailed her.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0929/731102-satellite-dish/

By common sense I'm guessing Inda is advocating crucifixion here. An old helpless woman is just the type of person this govt will chase to fund the wealthy and powerful.
Have you ever heard of separation of powers??   ::)

Does your definition of "separation of powers" include Purcell's visit to Martin Callinan at the behest of our dear leader? The Fennelly Report suggests that this intervention directly resulted in the resignation of Callinan, something that a Taoiseach is not permitted to do.

But he never did...and all his lickspittles will swear to anyone who will listen to keep themselves in office.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 04:08:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 03:50:01 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 11:37:25 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 11:33:46 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 29, 2015, 04:58:18 PM
Good to see Enda's crew in the justice system are finally persistent in taking the right people to court. Should have jailed her.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0929/731102-satellite-dish/

By common sense I'm guessing Inda is advocating crucifixion here. An old helpless woman is just the type of person this govt will chase to fund the wealthy and powerful.
Have you ever heard of separation of powers??   ::)

Does your definition of "separation of powers" include Purcell's visit to Martin Callinan at the behest of our dear leader? The Fennelly Report suggests that this intervention directly resulted in the resignation of Callinan, something that a Taoiseach is not permitted to do.

What's the relevance of that to the case you were commenting on??

Let's just be clear here, your comment was:

QuoteAn old helpless woman is just the type of person this govt will chase to fund the wealthy and powerful.

Now is it a case that you actually believe that the govt were chasing the woman in this case? Or is it just a Joe Duffy-esque soundbite??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 04:23:42 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 04:08:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 03:50:01 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 11:37:25 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 11:33:46 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 29, 2015, 04:58:18 PM
Good to see Enda's crew in the justice system are finally persistent in taking the right people to court. Should have jailed her.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0929/731102-satellite-dish/

By common sense I'm guessing Inda is advocating crucifixion here. An old helpless woman is just the type of person this govt will chase to fund the wealthy and powerful.
Have you ever heard of separation of powers??   ::)

Does your definition of "separation of powers" include Purcell's visit to Martin Callinan at the behest of our dear leader? The Fennelly Report suggests that this intervention directly resulted in the resignation of Callinan, something that a Taoiseach is not permitted to do.

What's the relevance of that to the case you were commenting on??

Let's just be clear here, your comment was:

QuoteAn old helpless woman is just the type of person this govt will chase to fund the wealthy and powerful.

Now is it a case that you actually believe that the govt were chasing the woman in this case? Or is it just a Joe Duffy-esque soundbite??

Do you deny that there has been a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich under this govt?

I'll give u an example. IBRC are alleged to have given an interest rate of 1.5% on Redacted's loans. This is inexplicable as this country has to borrow at way over that rate to keep the country going. So in effect the tax payer is financing the shortfall of what DOB should be paying and what he is actually paying. This has resulted in less revenue for County and City Councils to provide services. They have to look elsewhere to raise revenues. Who do they go to? 90 year old ladies end up being taken to court and now have to foot the bill.

Property taxes and a second water tax along with increase Motor Tax etc are being showed on to those who can't dictate what taxes they pay if at all. Hopefully ure getting the gist of this now but maybe like Ross fan u prefer to put your hands over your ears and shout to yourself that isn't happening. The govt through legislation, spin and bluster are bullying those who cannot defend themselves in to footing the bill for the rich and powerful who refuse to honour their debts.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 04:32:06 PM
So you're going off on a complete tangent now??  ::)

No, I certainly don't deny that there has been a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich under this govt (and indeed under previous governments, not just here but internationally)

To bring this back to your original point though in relation to this case, do I think that this govt is responsible for this particular case?? Not in the slightest. Some over-zealous clown of a civil servant is to blame - he and his bosses should have better things to do besides bringing something like this to court.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 04:36:12 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 04:32:06 PM
Some over-zealous clown of a civil servant is to blame - he and his bosses should have better things to do besides bringing something like this to court.

And who are their bosses?
Point is that these over-zealous clowns would be better tasked with investigating the real crooks in the financial industry.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 04:32:06 PM
So you're going off on a complete tangent now??  ::)

No, I certainly don't deny that there has been a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich under this govt (and indeed under previous governments, not just here but internationally)

To bring this back to your original point though in relation to this case, do I think that this govt is responsible for this particular case?? Not in the slightest. Some over-zealous clown of a civil servant is to blame - he and his bosses should have better things to do besides bringing something like this to court.

It is decisions made by the govt that are resulting in the City Council chasing people for money. Their revenues are reduced so they look elsewhere and go for easy targets like 90 year old ladies. There is absolutely no tangent here, govt policies are resulting in 90 year old ladies being chased.  ::) (sarky smiley face right back at you. always an argument winner!!!!)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on September 30, 2015, 05:23:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 05:15:14 PM
It is decisions made by the govt that are resulting in the City Council chasing people for money. Their revenues are reduced so they look elsewhere and go for easy targets like 90 year old ladies. There is absolutely no tangent here, govt policies are resulting in 90 year old ladies being chased.  ::) (sarky smiley face right back at you. always an argument winner!!!!)

How will a couple of grand in legal costs boost revenue for the City Council?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 30, 2015, 05:33:37 PM
They'd have loads of Revenue only for Sinn Pain and the loonies pursuing a right wing policy of tax cutting in the Council.
They voted to reduce the Property Tax so they can chase middle class votes and save Paul Murphy's rich family thousands of €€€€€€€
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 04:32:06 PM
So you're going off on a complete tangent now??  ::)

No, I certainly don't deny that there has been a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich under this govt (and indeed under previous governments, not just here but internationally)

To bring this back to your original point though in relation to this case, do I think that this govt is responsible for this particular case?? Not in the slightest. Some over-zealous clown of a civil servant is to blame - he and his bosses should have better things to do besides bringing something like this to court.

It is decisions made by the govt that are resulting in the City Council chasing people for money. Their revenues are reduced so they look elsewhere and go for easy targets like 90 year old ladies. There is absolutely no tangent here, govt policies are resulting in 90 year old ladies being chased.  ::) (sarky smiley face right back at you. always an argument winner!!!!)

Easy target for money?? What do you think this lady was taken to court for??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 07:00:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 04:36:12 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 04:32:06 PM
Some over-zealous clown of a civil servant is to blame - he and his bosses should have better things to do besides bringing something like this to court.

And who are their bosses?
Point is that these over-zealous clowns would be better tasked with investigating the real crooks in the financial industry.

Their bosses are someone in the council I presume. Or do you think the Gardai are their bosses??

I thought you were a big law and order man anyway foxy?? You certainly don't approve of refugees breaking the law from what you've said
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:36:29 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 04:32:06 PM
So you're going off on a complete tangent now??  ::)

No, I certainly don't deny that there has been a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich under this govt (and indeed under previous governments, not just here but internationally)

To bring this back to your original point though in relation to this case, do I think that this govt is responsible for this particular case?? Not in the slightest. Some over-zealous clown of a civil servant is to blame - he and his bosses should have better things to do besides bringing something like this to court.

It is decisions made by the govt that are resulting in the City Council chasing people for money. Their revenues are reduced so they look elsewhere and go for easy targets like 90 year old ladies. There is absolutely no tangent here, govt policies are resulting in 90 year old ladies being chased.  ::) (sarky smiley face right back at you. always an argument winner!!!!)
The €1,500 is to go towards Dublin City Council's legal costs for taking her to court. It doesn't even cover all their costs - it's a contribution. A net deficit for the Council in bringing this case. That's an odd way to boost revenue.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:39:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 04:36:12 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 04:32:06 PM
Some over-zealous clown of a civil servant is to blame - he and his bosses should have better things to do besides bringing something like this to court.

And who are their bosses?
Ultimately the Council is it not? That's the Council with SF as the largest party.


Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 04:36:12 PM
Point is that these over-zealous clowns would be better tasked with investigating the real crooks in the financial industry.
That's now the responsibility of local authorities?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:41:35 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 11:33:46 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 29, 2015, 04:58:18 PM
Good to see Enda's crew in the justice system are finally persistent in taking the right people to court. Should have jailed her.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0929/731102-satellite-dish/

By common sense I'm guessing Inda is advocating crucifixion here. An old helpless woman is just the type of person this govt will chase to fund the wealthy and powerful.
Once again, demonstrating that common sense isn't very common.

Ironically:
The Taoiseach has said that a measure of "common sense" should have been used after a 90-year-old woman was brought to court after she erected a satellite dish outside her home, in breach of planning laws.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0929/731102-satellite-dish/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 07:50:32 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 07:00:56 PM


I thought you were a big law and order man anyway foxy?? You certainly don't approve of refugees breaking the law from what you've said

I don't approve of the law being broken in any form. Merely pointing out the vigorous nature of which this lady was brought to justice in comparison to the bigger crooks around.



Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 08:24:32 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:36:29 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 04:32:06 PM
So you're going off on a complete tangent now??  ::)

No, I certainly don't deny that there has been a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich under this govt (and indeed under previous governments, not just here but internationally)

To bring this back to your original point though in relation to this case, do I think that this govt is responsible for this particular case?? Not in the slightest. Some over-zealous clown of a civil servant is to blame - he and his bosses should have better things to do besides bringing something like this to court.

It is decisions made by the govt that are resulting in the City Council chasing people for money. Their revenues are reduced so they look elsewhere and go for easy targets like 90 year old ladies. There is absolutely no tangent here, govt policies are resulting in 90 year old ladies being chased.  ::) (sarky smiley face right back at you. always an argument winner!!!!)
The €1,500 is to go towards Dublin City Council's legal costs for taking her to court. It doesn't even cover all their costs - it's a contribution. A net deficit for the Council in bringing this case. That's an odd way to boost revenue.
So they were right to chase her for 1500? Is this what you are saying.  Makes as much sense as your strategy to close the public deficit by implementing a super quango.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 08:26:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 30, 2015, 05:23:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 05:15:14 PM
It is decisions made by the govt that are resulting in the City Council chasing people for money. Their revenues are reduced so they look elsewhere and go for easy targets like 90 year old ladies. There is absolutely no tangent here, govt policies are resulting in 90 year old ladies being chased.  ::) (sarky smiley face right back at you. always an argument winner!!!!)

How will a couple of grand in legal costs boost revenue for the City Council?

Maths not your strong point. If they didnt get the 1500 then they'd have 1500 less.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 08:27:57 PM
Do you even read these articles or just look at the headlines??

She was taken to court in order to get her to remove a satellite dish. If it hadn't gone to court, there would have been no monetary return to the council. They weren't following her for cash.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 08:30:50 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 08:26:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 30, 2015, 05:23:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 05:15:14 PM
It is decisions made by the govt that are resulting in the City Council chasing people for money. Their revenues are reduced so they look elsewhere and go for easy targets like 90 year old ladies. There is absolutely no tangent here, govt policies are resulting in 90 year old ladies being chased.  ::) (sarky smiley face right back at you. always an argument winner!!!!)

How will a couple of grand in legal costs boost revenue for the City Council?

Maths not your strong point. If they didnt get the 1500 then they'd have 1500 less.
And if they hadn't taken her to court, they'd wouldn't have incurred the legal costs (of more than 1500) in the first place, therefore as a strategy to generate revenue, it's has the odd flaw.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 08:24:32 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:36:29 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 04:32:06 PM
So you're going off on a complete tangent now??  ::)

No, I certainly don't deny that there has been a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich under this govt (and indeed under previous governments, not just here but internationally)

To bring this back to your original point though in relation to this case, do I think that this govt is responsible for this particular case?? Not in the slightest. Some over-zealous clown of a civil servant is to blame - he and his bosses should have better things to do besides bringing something like this to court.

It is decisions made by the govt that are resulting in the City Council chasing people for money. Their revenues are reduced so they look elsewhere and go for easy targets like 90 year old ladies. There is absolutely no tangent here, govt policies are resulting in 90 year old ladies being chased.  ::) (sarky smiley face right back at you. always an argument winner!!!!)
The €1,500 is to go towards Dublin City Council's legal costs for taking her to court. It doesn't even cover all their costs - it's a contribution. A net deficit for the Council in bringing this case. That's an odd way to boost revenue.
So they were right to chase her for 1500? Is this what you are saying.  Makes as much sense as your strategy to close the public deficit by implementing a super quango.
No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 30, 2015, 08:45:04 PM
Maguire and Mac- I suspect ye can now see why I've put them 2 on my ignore list  :D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on September 30, 2015, 09:00:17 PM
The Shinners housing policy would be to stick her in a safe house and let a couple of 'On the runs' look after her.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 09:21:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 30, 2015, 08:45:04 PM
Maguire and Mac- I suspect ye can now see why I've put them 2 on my ignore list  :D


(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcq51pYmw21qc81lfo1_500.png)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 10:16:07 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 08:27:57 PM
Do you even read these articles or just look at the headlines??

She was taken to court in order to get her to remove a satellite dish. If it hadn't gone to court, there would have been no monetary return to the council. They weren't following her for cash.
At this point in time they are following her for the cash. Their decision to take her to court was typical public sector incompetence. Legal costs are now sunk costs. Chasing her for 1500 is now a revenue generating exercise.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 10:21:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 10:16:07 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 08:27:57 PM
Do you even read these articles or just look at the headlines??

She was taken to court in order to get her to remove a satellite dish. If it hadn't gone to court, there would have been no monetary return to the council. They weren't following her for cash.
At this point in time they are following her for the cash. Their decision to take her to court was typical public sector incompetence. Legal costs are now sunk costs. Chasing her for 1500 is now a revenue generating exercise.
A 'sunk cost' is, by definition, a cost that can't be recovered. The 1500 is to recover the legal costs.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 10:32:38 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt tlink=topic=22335.msg1519718#msg1519718 date=1443641072
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:36:29 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 04:32:06 PM
So you're going off on a complete tangent now??  ::)

No, I certainly don't deny that there has been a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich under this govt (and indeed under previous governments, not just here but internationally)

To bring this back to your original point though in relation to this case, do I think that this govt is responsible for this particular case?? Not in the slightest. Some over-zealous clown of a civil servant is to blame - he and his bosses should have better things to do besides bringing something like this to court.

It is decisions made by the govt that are resulting in the City Council chasing people for money. Their revenues are reduced so they look elsewhere and go for easy targets like 90 year old ladies. There is absolutely no tangent here, govt policies are resulting in 90 year old ladies being chased.  ::) (sarky smiley face right back at you. always an argument winner!!!!)
The €1,500 is to go towards Dublin City Council's legal costs for taking her to court. It doesn't even cover all their costs - it's a contribution. A net deficit for the Council in bringing this case. That's an odd way to boost revenue.
So they were right to chase her for 1500? Is this what you are saying.  Makes as much sense as your strategy to close the public deficit by implementing a super quango.
No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?

The legal costs are sunk. Getting the 1500 now is money in so could be called revenue or income or blackmail of a 90 year old. Your Irish Water defence was wafer thin so good luck trying to defend this latest public sector fcuk up. To repeat my point for those a bit slow on the pick up. Resources are tight because of govt policy. This directly leads to them chasing a 90 year old. The decision to go to court in the first place was incompetence. In boomier times they may not have decided to go after her for the 1500.

I now expect the person who made this decision to be rewarded with a promotion and a move to Irish Water a la Tierney who excelled at incompetence and was rewarded with Irish Water gig.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 10:36:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 30, 2015, 08:45:04 PM
Maguire and Mac- I suspect ye caun now see why I've put them 2 on my ignore list  :D

Christ have u nothing else to contribute? Surely you have something else to say. ....... actually I'm over estimating you.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:42:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 10:21:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 10:16:07 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 08:27:57 PM
Do you even read these articles or just look at the headlines??

She was taken to court in order to get her to remove a satellite dish. If it hadn't gone to court, there would have been no monetary return to the council. They weren't following her for cash.
At this point in time they are following her for the cash. Their decision to take her to court was typical public sector incompetence. Legal costs are now sunk costs. Chasing her for 1500 is now a revenue generating exercise.
A 'sunk cost' is, by definition, a cost that can't be recovered. The 1500 is to recover the legal costs.

Not to mention the man hours in wages and fees used up in chasing this 90 year old woman.
Go after the easy targets lads...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:42:25 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 10:16:07 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 08:27:57 PM
Do you even read these articles or just look at the headlines??

She was taken to court in order to get her to remove a satellite dish. If it hadn't gone to court, there would have been no monetary return to the council. They weren't following her for cash.
At this point in time they are following her for the cash. Their decision to take her to court was typical public sector incompetence. Legal costs are now sunk costs. Chasing her for 1500 is now a revenue generating exercise.

So was she taken to court to raise funds for the council or not??

The problem in this case is not that the lady has to pay 1500, chances are she's more than able to afford it. The problem is that the case went to court at all

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:43:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:42:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 10:21:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 10:16:07 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 08:27:57 PM
Do you even read these articles or just look at the headlines??

She was taken to court in order to get her to remove a satellite dish. If it hadn't gone to court, there would have been no monetary return to the council. They weren't following her for cash.
At this point in time they are following her for the cash. Their decision to take her to court was typical public sector incompetence. Legal costs are now sunk costs. Chasing her for 1500 is now a revenue generating exercise.
A 'sunk cost' is, by definition, a cost that can't be recovered. The 1500 is to recover the legal costs.

Not to mention the man hours in wages and fees used up in chasing this 90 year old woman.
Go after the easy targets lads...

Absolutely fox but literally NOTHING to do with the current govt!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:51:31 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:43:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:42:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 10:21:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 10:16:07 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 08:27:57 PM
Do you even read these articles or just look at the headlines??

She was taken to court in order to get her to remove a satellite dish. If it hadn't gone to court, there would have been no monetary return to the council. They weren't following her for cash.
At this point in time they are following her for the cash. Their decision to take her to court was typical public sector incompetence. Legal costs are now sunk costs. Chasing her for 1500 is now a revenue generating exercise.
A 'sunk cost' is, by definition, a cost that can't be recovered. The 1500 is to recover the legal costs.

Not to mention the man hours in wages and fees used up in chasing this 90 year old woman.
Go after the easy targets lads...

Absolutely fox but literally NOTHING to do with the current govt!!

Funding for these bozos comes from Department of Finance and ultimate responsibility for the councils lies with Alan Kelly's Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 10:56:54 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 10:32:38 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt tlink=topic=22335.msg1519718#msg1519718 date=1443641072
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:36:29 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 04:32:06 PM
So you're going off on a complete tangent now??  ::)

No, I certainly don't deny that there has been a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich under this govt (and indeed under previous governments, not just here but internationally)

To bring this back to your original point though in relation to this case, do I think that this govt is responsible for this particular case?? Not in the slightest. Some over-zealous clown of a civil servant is to blame - he and his bosses should have better things to do besides bringing something like this to court.

It is decisions made by the govt that are resulting in the City Council chasing people for money. Their revenues are reduced so they look elsewhere and go for easy targets like 90 year old ladies. There is absolutely no tangent here, govt policies are resulting in 90 year old ladies being chased.  ::) (sarky smiley face right back at you. always an argument winner!!!!)
The €1,500 is to go towards Dublin City Council's legal costs for taking her to court. It doesn't even cover all their costs - it's a contribution. A net deficit for the Council in bringing this case. That's an odd way to boost revenue.
So they were right to chase her for 1500? Is this what you are saying.  Makes as much sense as your strategy to close the public deficit by implementing a super quango.
No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?

The legal costs are sunk. Getting the 1500 now is money in so could be called revenue or income or blackmail of a 90 year old. Your Irish Water defence was wafer thin so good luck trying to defend this latest public sector fcuk up. To repeat my point for those a bit slow on the pick up. Resources are tight because of govt policy. This directly leads to them chasing a 90 year old. The decision to go to court in the first place was incompetence. In boomier times they may not have decided to go after her for the 1500.
I'm not trying to defend the actions of the DCC. I'm just pointing out the holes in your contribution.

This council brought this woman to court to seek a criminal conviction for breach of planning laws, not for money. The woman lost her case and the council sought recovery of their legal costs from her. There's no way of interpreting that as a revenue generation move. At best, the council would break even.

If costs can be recovered they are not 'sunk'.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:58:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:51:31 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:43:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:42:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 10:21:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 10:16:07 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 08:27:57 PM
Do you even read these articles or just look at the headlines??

She was taken to court in order to get her to remove a satellite dish. If it hadn't gone to court, there would have been no monetary return to the council. They weren't following her for cash.
At this point in time they are following her for the cash. Their decision to take her to court was typical public sector incompetence. Legal costs are now sunk costs. Chasing her for 1500 is now a revenue generating exercise.
A 'sunk cost' is, by definition, a cost that can't be recovered. The 1500 is to recover the legal costs.

Not to mention the man hours in wages and fees used up in chasing this 90 year old woman.
Go after the easy targets lads...

Absolutely fox but literally NOTHING to do with the current govt!!

Funding for these bozos comes from Department of Finance and ultimate responsibility for the councils lies with Alan Kelly's Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government.

Well part of their funding comes from the LPT but regardless, are you seriously suggesting that the minister of environment should get involved or even be aware of this kind of stuff?? Come on, I don't believe for a second that you actually think that.

The day to day running of the country at a micro level is determined by civil servants who remain in place regardless of what party is in power.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 01, 2015, 08:27:55 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 10:56:54 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 10:32:38 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt tlink=topic=22335.msg1519718#msg1519718 date=1443641072
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:36:29 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 04:32:06 PM
So you're going off on a complete tangent now??  ::)

No, I certainly don't deny that there has been a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich under this govt (and indeed under previous governments, not just here but internationally)

To bring this back to your original point though in relation to this case, do I think that this govt is responsible for this particular case?? Not in the slightest. Some over-zealous clown of a civil servant is to blame - he and his bosses should have better things to do besides bringing something like this to court.

It is decisions made by the govt that are resulting in the City Council chasing people for money. Their revenues are reduced so they look elsewhere and go for easy targets like 90 year old ladies. There is absolutely no tangent here, govt policies are resulting in 90 year old ladies being chased.  ::) (sarky smiley face right back at you. always an argument winner!!!!)
The €1,500 is to go towards Dublin City Council's legal costs for taking her to court. It doesn't even cover all their costs - it's a contribution. A net deficit for the Council in bringing this case. That's an odd way to boost revenue.
So they were right to chase her for 1500? Is this what you are saying.  Makes as much sense as your strategy to close the public deficit by implementing a super quango.
No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?

The legal costs are sunk. Getting the 1500 now is money in so could be called revenue or income or blackmail of a 90 year old. Your Irish Water defence was wafer thin so good luck trying to defend this latest public sector fcuk up. To repeat my point for those a bit slow on the pick up. Resources are tight because of govt policy. This directly leads to them chasing a 90 year old. The decision to go to court in the first place was incompetence. In boomier times they may not have decided to go after her for the 1500.
I'm not trying to defend the actions of the DCC. I'm just pointing out the holes in your contribution.

This council brought this woman to court to seek a criminal conviction for breach of planning laws, not for money. The woman lost her case and the council sought recovery of their legal costs from her. There's no way of interpreting that as a revenue generation move. At best, the council would break even.

If costs can be recovered they are not 'sunk'.

Legal costs I assume have already been paid to their solicitors. Are they recoverable from their solicitors? If not, then they are sunk costs. They are now chasing their losses. If they get the 1,500 from this 90 year old woman then  this will be money in which could thus be deemed to be "revenue", "income" or "cash from blackmail".
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 01, 2015, 08:35:31 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:42:25 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 10:16:07 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 08:27:57 PM
Do you even read these articles or just look at the headlines??

She was taken to court in order to get her to remove a satellite dish. If it hadn't gone to court, there would have been no monetary return to the council. They weren't following her for cash.
At this point in time they are following her for the cash. Their decision to take her to court was typical public sector incompetence. Legal costs are now sunk costs. Chasing her for 1500 is now a revenue generating exercise.

So was she taken to court to raise funds for the council or not??

The problem in this case is not that the lady has to pay 1500, chances are she's more than able to afford it. The problem is that the case went to court at all

Where did I say taking her to court was a money generating exercise? The legal costs are paid = expense. They are now chasing her for 1,500, if they are successful then this will be money in, revenue, income or whatever you prefer to call it.

You think there is no problem chasing a 90 year old woman for money? You heartless wagon. Whether she can afford it or not is a separate issue.

Also you didn't answer whether Inda sending his goon across to Callinan was a breach of your "separation of powers". In your own time, shill.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 01, 2015, 09:07:23 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:58:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:51:31 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:43:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:42:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 10:21:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 10:16:07 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 08:27:57 PM
Do you even read these articles or just look at the headlines??

She was taken to court in order to get her to remove a satellite dish. If it hadn't gone to court, there would have been no monetary return to the council. They weren't following her for cash.
At this point in time they are following her for the cash. Their decision to take her to court was typical public sector incompetence. Legal costs are now sunk costs. Chasing her for 1500 is now a revenue generating exercise.
A 'sunk cost' is, by definition, a cost that can't be recovered. The 1500 is to recover the legal costs.

Not to mention the man hours in wages and fees used up in chasing this 90 year old woman.
Go after the easy targets lads...

Absolutely fox but literally NOTHING to do with the current govt!!

Funding for these bozos comes from Department of Finance and ultimate responsibility for the councils lies with Alan Kelly's Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government.

Well part of their funding comes from the LPT but regardless, are you seriously suggesting that the minister of environment should get involved or even be aware of this kind of stuff?? Come on, I don't believe for a second that you actually think that.

The day to day running of the country at a micro level is determined by civil servants who remain in place regardless of what party is in power.

Council budgets are allocated by govt. Their policies dictate how much they can allocate. A state owned bank, IBRC are alleged to have given a  1.5% loans to Dinny O Brien, while the govt were borrowing at about 7%.

I'm not sure how you can think that decisions like this do not impact spending at lower levels of government. You have admitted that there has been a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich under this govt. This is anecdotal evidence of what govt policy has resulted in. Councils chasing 90 year old women for 1,500. Best little country to do business in (if you're wealthy). This is no different than all those cancer patients who had their medical cards taken away because they weren't dying quick enough. It's the people who are unable to defend themselves that are being targeted. The poor, sick and old.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on October 01, 2015, 09:18:39 AM
Degenerating into name-calling already mikey??  :(

Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 05:15:14 PM
It is decisions made by the govt that are resulting in the City Council chasing people for money. Their revenues are reduced so they look elsewhere and go for easy targets like 90 year old ladies.

Now it seems like you're saying here that the council are chasing this lady for money. You can try to twist what you were saying and talk about sunken costs if you like but if you take your argument to the nth degree then almost every cost incurred by the govt (health service, police force, etc.) are sunken costs and shouldn't be "chased".

QuoteYou think there is no problem chasing a 90 year old woman for money? You heartless wagon. Whether she can afford it or not is a separate issue

You've definitely been listening to too much Joe Duffy  ;D

You are trying to relate the cut in govt funding to the council following this lady for costs after taking her to court. There is no such relationship. Has the council policy been changed since their funding was cut such that they now look for costs in all cases they win?? If you can point to such a change in policy, then you may have a basis for relating the two. If such a decision was taken, then it's surely the responsibility of Dublin City council – I believe SF are currently in the hotseat there?? For what it's worth, I don't think this mess is their responsibility either – politicians aren't supposed to be involved in the day-to-day matters such as this. If the council takes someone to court and wins, then they should generally seek costs unless the person is genuinely unable to pay....which leads to.......

The actual decision you should be focussing on is the one which resulted in this lady ending up in court in the first place and which subsequently lead to her being followed for costs. That decision is as a result of the incompetence of a civil servant who thought that this would be a worthwhile way to spend his time and our money.

As regards Callinan, that is entirely irrelevant to the point you made (i.e. that the govt are responsible for this lady being followed for money).

It's a sad reflection on the standard of opposition to the govt that with all the genuine issues cropping up on a weekly basis that you could be taking them to task over, you seem to be unable to do so.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on October 01, 2015, 09:22:32 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 01, 2015, 09:07:23 AM
Council budgets are allocated by govt. Their policies dictate how much they can allocate. A state owned bank, IBRC are alleged to have given a  1.5% loans to Dinny O Brien, while the govt were borrowing at about 7%.
I'm not sure how you can think that decisions like this do not impact spending at lower levels of government. You have admitted that there has been a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich under this govt. This is anecdotal evidence of what govt policy has resulted in. Councils chasing 90 year old women for 1,500. Best little country to do business in (if you're wealthy). This is no different than all those cancer patients who had their medical cards taken away because they weren't dying quick enough. It's the people who are unable to defend themselves that are being targeted. The poor, sick and old.

You're off on a tangent again Mike - an entirely legitimate discussion to have but it has ZERO relevance to this particular case.

As I said, there are plenty of genuine issues you could be raising in relation to the govt but instead you choose the tabloid, "look at the govt chasing a poor old 90 year old woman" story when in fact it has literally nothing to do with govt
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 01, 2015, 09:51:11 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 01, 2015, 09:22:32 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 01, 2015, 09:07:23 AM
Council budgets are allocated by govt. Their policies dictate how much they can allocate. A state owned bank, IBRC are alleged to have given a  1.5% loans to Dinny O Brien, while the govt were borrowing at about 7%.
I'm not sure how you can think that decisions like this do not impact spending at lower levels of government. You have admitted that there has been a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich under this govt. This is anecdotal evidence of what govt policy has resulted in. Councils chasing 90 year old women for 1,500. Best little country to do business in (if you're wealthy). This is no different than all those cancer patients who had their medical cards taken away because they weren't dying quick enough. It's the people who are unable to defend themselves that are being targeted. The poor, sick and old.

You're off on a tangent again Mike - an entirely legitimate discussion to have but it has ZERO relevance to this particular case.

As I said, there are plenty of genuine issues you could be raising in relation to the govt but instead you choose the tabloid, "look at the govt chasing a poor old 90 year old woman" story when in fact it has literally nothing to do with govt

Well, if you don't believe that govt policy impacts decision making at all levels of the public service then i'm glad we don't agree, you are clearly wrong. You still haven't answered the separation of powers issue u threw out earlier. Do you think Inda crossed the line when sacking Callinan?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on October 01, 2015, 09:58:19 AM
Mike, this isn't a media interview where you (as the lovely Miriam or Dobbo) get to randomly throw questions at me as if I'm some sort of spokesperson for Enda Kenny. It's a discussion board where people make comments and others comment on what has been said. If you have a position on the whole Callinan affair, fire away and post it here. If I'm interested in what you say or take issue with anything you have to say I'll reply to you.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 01, 2015, 10:59:09 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 01, 2015, 09:58:19 AM
Mike, this isn't a media interview where you (as the lovely Miriam or Dobbo) get to randomly throw questions at me as if I'm some sort of spokesperson for Enda Kenny. It's a discussion board where people make comments and others comment on what has been said. If you have a position on the whole Callinan affair, fire away and post it here. If I'm interested in what you say or take issue with anything you have to say I'll reply to you.

Ure the one that said govt don't interefere in things that are outside their remit. I just mentioned the Callinan sacking as one example where separation of duties are ignored by the current govt.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 01, 2015, 12:16:32 PM
Seeing the  tabloidesque mock shock horror over the Planning case ( which is of course nothing to do with FG as Mac and Maguire pointed out to the 2 biggest eejits on the Board ) do the Planning Acts and Regulations lay down anything about
- minimum height of person below which Legislation doesn't apply
- Maximum age ditto
- Sex ditto.

If it's not right to prosecute a "little old lady" does it follow that only tall young men can be prosecuted?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 01, 2015, 12:58:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2015, 12:16:32 PM
Seeing the  tabloidesque mock shock horror over the Planning case ( which is of course nothing to do with FG as Mac and Maguire pointed out to the 2 biggest eejits on the Board ) do the Planning Acts and Regulations lay down anything about
- minimum height of person below which Legislation doesn't apply
- Maximum age ditto
- Sex ditto.

If it's not right to prosecute a "little old lady" does it follow that only tall young men can be prosecuted?

Why isn't everyone with a satellite dish at the front of their house brought to court?

Because it is govt policy to go after those who are most vulnerable. This approach feeds down through the ranks, something public sector "workers" obviously approve of.

Now get back to that trough!!!!

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:58:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:51:31 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:43:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:42:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 10:21:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 10:16:07 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 08:27:57 PM
Do you even read these articles or just look at the headlines??

She was taken to court in order to get her to remove a satellite dish. If it hadn't gone to court, there would have been no monetary return to the council. They weren't following her for cash.
At this point in time they are following her for the cash. Their decision to take her to court was typical public sector incompetence. Legal costs are now sunk costs. Chasing her for 1500 is now a revenue generating exercise.
A 'sunk cost' is, by definition, a cost that can't be recovered. The 1500 is to recover the legal costs.

Not to mention the man hours in wages and fees used up in chasing this 90 year old woman.
Go after the easy targets lads...

Absolutely fox but literally NOTHING to do with the current govt!!

Funding for these bozos comes from Department of Finance and ultimate responsibility for the councils lies with Alan Kelly's Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government.

Well part of their funding comes from the LPT but regardless, are you seriously suggesting that the minister of environment should get involved or even be aware of this kind of stuff?? Come on, I don't believe for a second that you actually think that.

The day to day running of the country at a micro level is determined by civil servants who remain in place regardless of what party is in power.

I'm glad you've acknowledged that the government does actually play a role in all of this.
It's up to the department of local government to oversee how funds are being allocated and used (and wasted) - otherwise they aren't doing their job. Wasting judges/court time and taxpayers money into the bargain.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 03:49:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2015, 12:16:32 PM
Seeing the  tabloidesque mock shock horror over the Planning case ( which is of course nothing to do with FG as Mac and Maguire pointed out to the 2 biggest eejits on the Board ) do the Planning Acts and Regulations lay down anything about
- minimum height of person below which Legislation doesn't apply
- Maximum age ditto
- Sex ditto.

If it's not right to prosecute a "little old lady" does it follow that only tall young men can be prosecuted?

If you only had something of substance to contribute but thanks for trying. Glad we're friends again :D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on October 01, 2015, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:58:14 PM
Well part of their funding comes from the LPT but regardless, are you seriously suggesting that the minister of environment should get involved or even be aware of this kind of stuff?? Come on, I don't believe for a second that you actually think that.

The day to day running of the country at a micro level is determined by civil servants who remain in place regardless of what party is in power.

I'm glad you've acknowledged that the government does actually play a role in all of this.
It's up to the department of local government to oversee how funds are being allocated and used (and wasted) - otherwise they aren't doing their job. Wasting judges/court time and taxpayers money into the bargain.

Since you believe govt has a role in this, surely it would be the Dublin city councillors who would be accountable rather than central govt??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 01, 2015, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:58:14 PM
Well part of their funding comes from the LPT but regardless, are you seriously suggesting that the minister of environment should get involved or even be aware of this kind of stuff?? Come on, I don't believe for a second that you actually think that.

The day to day running of the country at a micro level is determined by civil servants who remain in place regardless of what party is in power.

I'm glad you've acknowledged that the government does actually play a role in all of this.
It's up to the department of local government to oversee how funds are being allocated and used (and wasted) - otherwise they aren't doing their job. Wasting judges/court time and taxpayers money into the bargain.

Since you believe govt has a role in this, surely it would be the Dublin city councillors who would be accountable rather than central govt??

The government department has overall responsibility for the councils and what they get up to. Not excusing the councils actions either in this. Surely a bit of common sense applied could have sorted it out rather than taking legal routes against a 90 year old.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on October 01, 2015, 04:55:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 01, 2015, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:58:14 PM
Well part of their funding comes from the LPT but regardless, are you seriously suggesting that the minister of environment should get involved or even be aware of this kind of stuff?? Come on, I don't believe for a second that you actually think that.

The day to day running of the country at a micro level is determined by civil servants who remain in place regardless of what party is in power.

I'm glad you've acknowledged that the government does actually play a role in all of this.
It's up to the department of local government to oversee how funds are being allocated and used (and wasted) - otherwise they aren't doing their job. Wasting judges/court time and taxpayers money into the bargain.

Since you believe govt has a role in this, surely it would be the Dublin city councillors who would be accountable rather than central govt??

The government department has overall responsibility for the councils and what they get up to. Not excusing the councils actions either in this. Surely a bit of common sense applied could have sorted it out rather than taking legal routes against a 90 year old.

Of course a bitta common sense could have sorted it out but blaming politicians for the incompetence / pettiness of civil servants is complete rubbish.

Now what the council / govt should do is put in place some sort of guidelines to prevent this sort of waste happening again
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on October 01, 2015, 04:59:43 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 01, 2015, 04:43:55 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 01, 2015, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:58:14 PM
Well part of their funding comes from the LPT but regardless, are you seriously suggesting that the minister of environment should get involved or even be aware of this kind of stuff?? Come on, I don't believe for a second that you actually think that.

The day to day running of the country at a micro level is determined by civil servants who remain in place regardless of what party is in power.

I'm glad you've acknowledged that the government does actually play a role in all of this.
It's up to the department of local government to oversee how funds are being allocated and used (and wasted) - otherwise they aren't doing their job. Wasting judges/court time and taxpayers money into the bargain.

Since you believe govt has a role in this, surely it would be the Dublin city councillors who would be accountable rather than central govt??

Govt acountability? My hunch that u were living in a dream-world has been proven correct.


Eh?? You're the one that's attempting to hold govt accountable for the day to day minutiae of city council civil servant decisions

I think we're done on this from my end Mike
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 01, 2015, 05:00:25 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 01, 2015, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:58:14 PM
Well part of their funding comes from the LPT but regardless, are you seriously suggesting that the minister of environment should get involved or even be aware of this kind of stuff?? Come on, I don't believe for a second that you actually think that.

The day to day running of the country at a micro level is determined by civil servants who remain in place regardless of what party is in power.

I'm glad you've acknowledged that the government does actually play a role in all of this.
It's up to the department of local government to oversee how funds are being allocated and used (and wasted) - otherwise they aren't doing their job. Wasting judges/court time and taxpayers money into the bargain.

Since you believe govt has a role in this, surely it would be the Dublin city councillors who would be accountable rather than central govt??

Govt accountability? My hunch that you were living in a dream - world has been proven correct. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 06:11:43 PM
Someone should tell Enda he needs to press a button to make the lift go up and down.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34411889

I wonder if they could prosecute the lift for false imprisonment?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 01, 2015, 06:53:02 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 01, 2015, 04:59:43 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 01, 2015, 04:43:55 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 01, 2015, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:58:14 PM
Well part of their funding comes from the LPT but regardless, are you seriously suggesting that the minister of environment should get involved or even be aware of this kind of stuff?? Come on, I don't believe for a second that you actually think that.

The day to day running of the country at a micro level is determined by civil servants who remain in place regardless of what party is in power.

I'm glad you've acknowledged that the government does actually play a role in all of this.
It's up to the department of local government to oversee how funds are being allocated and used (and wasted) - otherwise they aren't doing their job. Wasting judges/court time and taxpayers money into the bargain.

Since you believe govt has a role in this, surely it would be the Dublin city councillors who would be accountable rather than central govt??

Govt acountability? My hunch that u were living in a dream-world has been proven correct.


Eh?? You're the one that's attempting to hold govt accountable for the day to day minutiae of city council civil servant decisions

I think we're done on this from my end Mike

You think govt policy does not impact on "day to day minutiae of city council civil servant decisions". You are entitled to your opinion but you are wrong. All decisions in any organisation come from the top. They control the resources and while they may not make every decision, resources dictate what decision is made all the way down to grunt level.

You have mentioned "separation of powers" and "accountability" in relation to govt at local and national level, both of which are oxymorons. They don't exist in Ireland and this is why I think u are living in a dream world.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 01, 2015, 06:56:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 06:11:43 PM
Someone should tell Enda he needs to press a button to make the lift go up and down.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34411889

I wonder if they could prosecute the lift for false imprisonment?

You just know there was nothing wrong with that lift. Denis O Brien wasn't there to tell him what to do, so even the easiest of decisions like pressing a button was beyond our dear leader.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 01, 2015, 08:12:26 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 01, 2015, 08:27:55 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 10:56:54 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 10:32:38 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: mikehunt tlink=topic=22335.msg1519718#msg1519718 date=1443641072
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 07:36:29 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 05:15:14 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 04:32:06 PM
So you're going off on a complete tangent now??  ::)

No, I certainly don't deny that there has been a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich under this govt (and indeed under previous governments, not just here but internationally)

To bring this back to your original point though in relation to this case, do I think that this govt is responsible for this particular case?? Not in the slightest. Some over-zealous clown of a civil servant is to blame - he and his bosses should have better things to do besides bringing something like this to court.

It is decisions made by the govt that are resulting in the City Council chasing people for money. Their revenues are reduced so they look elsewhere and go for easy targets like 90 year old ladies. There is absolutely no tangent here, govt policies are resulting in 90 year old ladies being chased.  ::) (sarky smiley face right back at you. always an argument winner!!!!)
The €1,500 is to go towards Dublin City Council's legal costs for taking her to court. It doesn't even cover all their costs - it's a contribution. A net deficit for the Council in bringing this case. That's an odd way to boost revenue.
So they were right to chase her for 1500? Is this what you are saying.  Makes as much sense as your strategy to close the public deficit by implementing a super quango.
No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?

The legal costs are sunk. Getting the 1500 now is money in so could be called revenue or income or blackmail of a 90 year old. Your Irish Water defence was wafer thin so good luck trying to defend this latest public sector fcuk up. To repeat my point for those a bit slow on the pick up. Resources are tight because of govt policy. This directly leads to them chasing a 90 year old. The decision to go to court in the first place was incompetence. In boomier times they may not have decided to go after her for the 1500.
I'm not trying to defend the actions of the DCC. I'm just pointing out the holes in your contribution.

This council brought this woman to court to seek a criminal conviction for breach of planning laws, not for money. The woman lost her case and the council sought recovery of their legal costs from her. There's no way of interpreting that as a revenue generation move. At best, the council would break even.

If costs can be recovered they are not 'sunk'.

Legal costs I assume have already been paid to their solicitors. Are they recoverable from their solicitors? If not, then they are sunk costs. They are now chasing their losses. If they get the 1,500 from this 90 year old woman then  this will be money in which could thus be deemed to be "revenue", "income" or "cash from blackmail".
Now you're just making up new definitions. It doesn't matter who the cost is recovered from.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 01, 2015, 08:14:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2015, 12:16:32 PM
Seeing the  tabloidesque mock shock horror over the Planning case ( which is of course nothing to do with FG as Mac and Maguire pointed out to the 2 biggest eejits on the Board ) do the Planning Acts and Regulations lay down anything about
- minimum height of person below which Legislation doesn't apply
- Maximum age ditto
- Sex ditto.

If it's not right to prosecute a "little old lady" does it follow that only tall young men can be prosecuted?
A very valid point. Do we even know how many people not fitting into the "little old lady" category have been prosecuted? Is it just that this is the only one that has been highlighted because it was a "little old lady"?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 01, 2015, 08:23:25 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 01, 2015, 12:58:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2015, 12:16:32 PM
Seeing the  tabloidesque mock shock horror over the Planning case ( which is of course nothing to do with FG as Mac and Maguire pointed out to the 2 biggest eejits on the Board ) do the Planning Acts and Regulations lay down anything about
- minimum height of person below which Legislation doesn't apply
- Maximum age ditto
- Sex ditto.

If it's not right to prosecute a "little old lady" does it follow that only tall young men can be prosecuted?

Why isn't everyone with a satellite dish at the front of their house brought to court?

Because it is govt policy to go after those who are most vulnerable. This approach feeds down through the ranks, something public sector "workers" obviously approve of.

Now get back to that trough!!!!
Do you know how many have been brought to court? Unless you can demonstrate that only 'vulnerable' people are brought to court, then you can't really ask that question.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 01, 2015, 08:27:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:58:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:51:31 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 10:43:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on September 30, 2015, 10:42:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 30, 2015, 10:21:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on September 30, 2015, 10:16:07 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on September 30, 2015, 08:27:57 PM
Do you even read these articles or just look at the headlines??

She was taken to court in order to get her to remove a satellite dish. If it hadn't gone to court, there would have been no monetary return to the council. They weren't following her for cash.
At this point in time they are following her for the cash. Their decision to take her to court was typical public sector incompetence. Legal costs are now sunk costs. Chasing her for 1500 is now a revenue generating exercise.
A 'sunk cost' is, by definition, a cost that can't be recovered. The 1500 is to recover the legal costs.

Not to mention the man hours in wages and fees used up in chasing this 90 year old woman.
Go after the easy targets lads...

Absolutely fox but literally NOTHING to do with the current govt!!

Funding for these bozos comes from Department of Finance and ultimate responsibility for the councils lies with Alan Kelly's Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government.

Well part of their funding comes from the LPT but regardless, are you seriously suggesting that the minister of environment should get involved or even be aware of this kind of stuff?? Come on, I don't believe for a second that you actually think that.

The day to day running of the country at a micro level is determined by civil servants who remain in place regardless of what party is in power.

I'm glad you've acknowledged that the government does actually play a role in all of this.
It's up to the department of local government to oversee how funds are being allocated and used (and wasted) - otherwise they aren't doing their job. Wasting judges/court time and taxpayers money into the bargain.
Do you really expect the government department to micro-manage local authorities? DCC has 63 Councillors. It's their job to set the policy for the Council. Maybe the Councillors should set a policy that planning law is not enforced?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 08:40:41 PM
(https://stretchmacgibbon.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/enda-kenny.jpg?w=584)

It's all right now lads...I'm immune to shafts at this stage...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 01, 2015, 10:20:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 01, 2015, 08:40:41 PM
(https://stretchmacgibbon.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/enda-kenny.jpg?w=584)

It's all right now lads...I'm immune to shafts at this stage...

Shamone.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 01, 2015, 11:38:49 PM
If government policy leads to the enforcement of laws, then I am all for it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 12:51:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 01, 2015, 08:12:26 PM

Now you're just making up new definitions. It doesn't matter who the cost is recovered from.

I'm just matching your habit of being pedantic. Solicitors fees have been paid, are the solicitors going to refund? If not then this cost is sunk.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 01, 2015, 08:14:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2015, 12:16:32 PM
Seeing the  tabloidesque mock shock horror over the Planning case ( which is of course nothing to do with FG as Mac and Maguire pointed out to the 2 biggest eejits on the Board ) do the Planning Acts and Regulations lay down anything about
- minimum height of person below which Legislation doesn't apply
- Maximum age ditto
- Sex ditto.

If it's not right to prosecute a "little old lady" does it follow that only tall young men can be prosecuted?
A very valid point. Do we even know how many people not fitting into the "little old lady" category have been prosecuted? Is it just that this is the only one that has been highlighted because it was a "little old lady"?

Rossfan has never made a valid point in his life. The fact u agree with him says all. The woman was 90 and did not realise what was going on. They sent her letters, brought her to court and now are trying to chase her for sunk costs. I doubt there are many people in court over having a satellite dish at the front as opposed to the back of the house. Judges would soon put a stop to stupid cases like that being brought to court on a regular basis.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 02, 2015, 07:47:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 12:51:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 01, 2015, 08:12:26 PM

Now you're just making up new definitions. It doesn't matter who the cost is recovered from.

I'm just matching your habit of being pedantic. Solicitors fees have been paid, are the solicitors going to refund? If not then this cost is sunk.
You're not being pedantic, you're just making things up. If the legal fees are recovered it doesn't matter from who.

Either way, the definition of a sunk cost is a distraction. You were claiming that DCC was chasing this woman for money because they had reduced revenues, when in fact she was being chased for a conviction - a process that costs the council money.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 02, 2015, 07:49:50 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 01, 2015, 08:14:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2015, 12:16:32 PM
Seeing the  tabloidesque mock shock horror over the Planning case ( which is of course nothing to do with FG as Mac and Maguire pointed out to the 2 biggest eejits on the Board ) do the Planning Acts and Regulations lay down anything about
- minimum height of person below which Legislation doesn't apply
- Maximum age ditto
- Sex ditto.

If it's not right to prosecute a "little old lady" does it follow that only tall young men can be prosecuted?
A very valid point. Do we even know how many people not fitting into the "little old lady" category have been prosecuted? Is it just that this is the only one that has been highlighted because it was a "little old lady"?

Rossfan has never made a valid point in his life. The fact u agree with him says all. The woman was 90 and did not realise what was going on. They sent her letters, brought her to court and now are trying to chase her for sunk costs. I doubt there are many people in court over having a satellite dish at the front as opposed to the back of the house. Judges would soon put a stop to stupid cases like that being brought to court on a regular basis.
Well the judge convicted in this case, did he not? And unless you have stats to show that this was an isolated case of DCC enforcing legislation, then you don't know what you're talking about.

But I also doubt there are many in court over a satellite dish as most people would take action following enforcement notices, thereby avoiding court.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 02, 2015, 10:22:43 PM
The 2 Bucko's still resolutely defending their joint title of GAA Boards biggest eejits ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 10:27:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 02, 2015, 10:22:43 PM
The 2 Bucko's still resolutely defending their joint title of GAA Boards biggest eejits ;D

We've a bit to go to take your crown.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 10:33:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2015, 07:47:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 12:51:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 01, 2015, 08:12:26 PM

Now you're just making up new definitions. It doesn't matter who the cost is recovered from.

I'm just matching your habit of being pedantic. Solicitors fees have been paid, are the solicitors going to refund? If not then this cost is sunk.
You're not being pedantic, you're just making things up. If the legal fees are recovered it doesn't matter from who.

Either way, the definition of a sunk cost is a distraction. You were claiming that DCC was chasing this woman for money because they had reduced revenues, when in fact she was being chased for a conviction - a process that costs the council money.

Your defence of Irish Water and now the council for harassing a 90 year old lady. What next? NRA on the gun control thread no doubt.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 02, 2015, 10:52:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 02, 2015, 10:22:43 PM
The 2 Bucko's still resolutely defending their joint title of GAA Boards biggest eejits ;D

+1

How would you be able to tell if you're "ignoring" posters?  ;D

Shall I stick a +1 under everyone's post like you do? Or have you learned to think for yourself yet?

+1
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 02, 2015, 11:15:46 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 10:33:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2015, 07:47:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 12:51:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 01, 2015, 08:12:26 PM

Now you're just making up new definitions. It doesn't matter who the cost is recovered from.

I'm just matching your habit of being pedantic. Solicitors fees have been paid, are the solicitors going to refund? If not then this cost is sunk.
You're not being pedantic, you're just making things up. If the legal fees are recovered it doesn't matter from who.

Either way, the definition of a sunk cost is a distraction. You were claiming that DCC was chasing this woman for money because they had reduced revenues, when in fact she was being chased for a conviction - a process that costs the council money.

Your defence of Irish Water and now the council for harassing a 90 year old lady. What next? NRA on the gun control thread no doubt.
I'm not actually defending them. But I wouldn't expect you to grasp that, given how everything else is going over your head.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 05, 2015, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2015, 11:15:46 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 10:33:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2015, 07:47:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 12:51:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 01, 2015, 08:12:26 PM

Now you're just making up new definitions. It doesn't matter who the cost is recovered from.

I'm just matching your habit of being pedantic. Solicitors fees have been paid, are the solicitors going to refund? If not then this cost is sunk.
You're not being pedantic, you're just making things up. If the legal fees are recovered it doesn't matter from who.

Either way, the definition of a sunk cost is a distraction. You were claiming that DCC was chasing this woman for money because they had reduced revenues, when in fact she was being chased for a conviction - a process that costs the council money.

Your defence of Irish Water and now the council for harassing a 90 year old lady. What next? NRA on the gun control thread no doubt.
I'm not actually defending them. But I wouldn't expect you to grasp that, given how everything else is going over your head.

You always defend public service waste and in fact encourage it from time to time. I don't pay too much heed to your ramblings so maybe missed out on what your point was, if you actually had one.

Your "ah shur it'll do" attitude" is typical of why this country is a joke. You never once commented on GSOC, Dennis O Brien, Irish Water debacle once it became obvious what was going on etc but come on to defend the Blueshirts at every opportunity except when it's impossible. You stay quiet on the major issues like democracy, transparency and accountability.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 05, 2015, 06:28:40 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 05, 2015, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2015, 11:15:46 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 10:33:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2015, 07:47:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 12:51:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 01, 2015, 08:12:26 PM

Now you're just making up new definitions. It doesn't matter who the cost is recovered from.

I'm just matching your habit of being pedantic. Solicitors fees have been paid, are the solicitors going to refund? If not then this cost is sunk.
You're not being pedantic, you're just making things up. If the legal fees are recovered it doesn't matter from who.

Either way, the definition of a sunk cost is a distraction. You were claiming that DCC was chasing this woman for money because they had reduced revenues, when in fact she was being chased for a conviction - a process that costs the council money.

Your defence of Irish Water and now the council for harassing a 90 year old lady. What next? NRA on the gun control thread no doubt.
I'm not actually defending them. But I wouldn't expect you to grasp that, given how everything else is going over your head.

You always defend public service waste and in fact encourage it from time to time. I don't pay too much heed to your ramblings so maybe missed out on what your point was, if you actually had one.
You see that's the problem. You don't even read and/or understand what someone is saying before you jump in. That's why you, as you put it yourself, 'miss the point'.

I never defend public sector waste. I definitely never encourage it. If you can point to specific examples to contradict me, please do. On this thread, for example, you had it in your head that I was posting to defend DCC. I wasn't.

Quote from: mikehunt on October 05, 2015, 01:57:03 PM
Your "ah shur it'll do" attitude" is typical of why this country is a joke. You never once commented on GSOC, Dennis O Brien, Irish Water debacle once it became obvious what was going on etc but come on to defend the Blueshirts at every opportunity except when it's impossible. You stay quiet on the major issues like democracy, transparency and accountability.
Please point out all those times I've "defended the Blueshirts" - specific examples.

And I can't comment on every thread, I just don't have the time, but am often drawn to populist tabloid nonsense that 'misses the point'.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 05, 2015, 09:12:05 PM
Aw, I was hoping the News would start off with a breaking message of an election. Especially since it was 10 minutes late starting.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 05, 2015, 09:38:55 PM
Your man was keeping them guessing today Farr on his good news visits.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 06, 2015, 12:37:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 05, 2015, 06:28:40 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 05, 2015, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2015, 11:15:46 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 10:33:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2015, 07:47:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 12:51:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 01, 2015, 08:12:26 PM

Now you're just making up new definitions. It doesn't matter who the cost is recovered from.

I'm just matching your habit of being pedantic. Solicitors fees have been paid, are the solicitors going to refund? If not then this cost is sunk.
You're not being pedantic, you're just making things up. If the legal fees are recovered it doesn't matter from who.

Either way, the definition of a sunk cost is a distraction. You were claiming that DCC was chasing this woman for money because they had reduced revenues, when in fact she was being chased for a conviction - a process that costs the council money.

Your defence of Irish Water and now the council for harassing a 90 year old lady. What next? NRA on the gun control thread no doubt.
I'm not actually defending them. But I wouldn't expect you to grasp that, given how everything else is going over your head.

You always defend public service waste and in fact encourage it from time to time. I don't pay too much heed to your ramblings so maybe missed out on what your point was, if you actually had one.
You see that's the problem. You don't even read and/or understand what someone is saying before you jump in. That's why you, as you put it yourself, 'miss the point'.

I never defend public sector waste. I definitely never encourage it. If you can point to specific examples to contradict me, please do. On this thread, for example, you had it in your head that I was posting to defend DCC. I wasn't.

Quote from: mikehunt on October 05, 2015, 01:57:03 PM
Your "ah shur it'll do" attitude" is typical of why this country is a joke. You never once commented on GSOC, Dennis O Brien, Irish Water debacle once it became obvious what was going on etc but come on to defend the Blueshirts at every opportunity except when it's impossible. You stay quiet on the major issues like democracy, transparency and accountability.
Please point out all those times I've "defended the Blueshirts" - specific examples.

And I can't comment on every thread, I just don't have the time, but am often drawn to populist tabloid nonsense that 'misses the point'.

You have championed Irish Water on numerous occasions. That is encouraging public sector waste and defending Fine Gael.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 06, 2015, 06:57:17 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 06, 2015, 12:37:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 05, 2015, 06:28:40 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 05, 2015, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2015, 11:15:46 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 10:33:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2015, 07:47:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 12:51:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 01, 2015, 08:12:26 PM

Now you're just making up new definitions. It doesn't matter who the cost is recovered from.

I'm just matching your habit of being pedantic. Solicitors fees have been paid, are the solicitors going to refund? If not then this cost is sunk.
You're not being pedantic, you're just making things up. If the legal fees are recovered it doesn't matter from who.

Either way, the definition of a sunk cost is a distraction. You were claiming that DCC was chasing this woman for money because they had reduced revenues, when in fact she was being chased for a conviction - a process that costs the council money.

Your defence of Irish Water and now the council for harassing a 90 year old lady. What next? NRA on the gun control thread no doubt.
I'm not actually defending them. But I wouldn't expect you to grasp that, given how everything else is going over your head.

You always defend public service waste and in fact encourage it from time to time. I don't pay too much heed to your ramblings so maybe missed out on what your point was, if you actually had one.
You see that's the problem. You don't even read and/or understand what someone is saying before you jump in. That's why you, as you put it yourself, 'miss the point'.

I never defend public sector waste. I definitely never encourage it. If you can point to specific examples to contradict me, please do. On this thread, for example, you had it in your head that I was posting to defend DCC. I wasn't.

Quote from: mikehunt on October 05, 2015, 01:57:03 PM
Your "ah shur it'll do" attitude" is typical of why this country is a joke. You never once commented on GSOC, Dennis O Brien, Irish Water debacle once it became obvious what was going on etc but come on to defend the Blueshirts at every opportunity except when it's impossible. You stay quiet on the major issues like democracy, transparency and accountability.
Please point out all those times I've "defended the Blueshirts" - specific examples.

And I can't comment on every thread, I just don't have the time, but am often drawn to populist tabloid nonsense that 'misses the point'.

You have championed Irish Water on numerous occasions. That is encouraging public sector waste and defending Fine Gael.
So, no, you have no specific examples then.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 06, 2015, 07:57:51 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 06, 2015, 06:57:17 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 06, 2015, 12:37:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 05, 2015, 06:28:40 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 05, 2015, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2015, 11:15:46 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 10:33:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 02, 2015, 07:47:19 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 02, 2015, 12:51:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 01, 2015, 08:12:26 PM

Now you're just making up new definitions. It doesn't matter who the cost is recovered from.

I'm just matching your habit of being pedantic. Solicitors fees have been paid, are the solicitors going to refund? If not then this cost is sunk.
You're not being pedantic, you're just making things up. If the legal fees are recovered it doesn't matter from who.

Either way, the definition of a sunk cost is a distraction. You were claiming that DCC was chasing this woman for money because they had reduced revenues, when in fact she was being chased for a conviction - a process that costs the council money.

Your defence of Irish Water and now the council for harassing a 90 year old lady. What next? NRA on the gun control thread no doubt.
I'm not actually defending them. But I wouldn't expect you to grasp that, given how everything else is going over your head.

You always defend public service waste and in fact encourage it from time to time. I don't pay too much heed to your ramblings so maybe missed out on what your point was, if you actually had one.
You see that's the problem. You don't even read and/or understand what someone is saying before you jump in. That's why you, as you put it yourself, 'miss the point'.

I never defend public sector waste. I definitely never encourage it. If you can point to specific examples to contradict me, please do. On this thread, for example, you had it in your head that I was posting to defend DCC. I wasn't.

Quote from: mikehunt on October 05, 2015, 01:57:03 PM
Your "ah shur it'll do" attitude" is typical of why this country is a joke. You never once commented on GSOC, Dennis O Brien, Irish Water debacle once it became obvious what was going on etc but come on to defend the Blueshirts at every opportunity except when it's impossible. You stay quiet on the major issues like democracy, transparency and accountability.
Please point out all those times I've "defended the Blueshirts" - specific examples.

And I can't comment on every thread, I just don't have the time, but am often drawn to populist tabloid nonsense that 'misses the point'.

You have championed Irish Water on numerous occasions. That is encouraging public sector waste and defending Fine Gael.
So, no, you have no specific examples then.

Not being a pedant Irish Water is as specific as you're going to get. You reckoned a quangosauras rex like Irish Water was a good plan to address this countries deficit. A fan of Paddy Economics. Ah shur it'll be grand.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 08, 2015, 04:15:23 PM
Dinny won't be happy with the collapse of his IPO, he may able to hoodwink/bribe/threaten Ireland Inc and FG but the markets aren't as soft a touch. Expect taxpayer to take the hit for this one. Dept of Finance furiously recalculating the budget as we speak.

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/digicel-ipo-ignore-the-13-16-price-range-whats-a-fair-value-per-share-cm525104
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 13, 2015, 09:06:19 PM
Why didn't they abolish the USC today?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 13, 2015, 09:56:43 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 13, 2015, 09:06:19 PM
Why didn't they abolish the USC today?
At what cost? And instead of what other cuts, or funded by what other rises? I don't know the exact figure, but isn't the USC a massive source of revenue?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 13, 2015, 10:54:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 13, 2015, 09:56:43 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 13, 2015, 09:06:19 PM
Why didn't they abolish the USC today?
At what cost? And instead of what other cuts, or funded by what other rises? I don't know the exact figure, but isn't the USC a massive source of revenue?
Tax multi nationals at 12.5%. That would raise a few quid.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: NetNitrate on October 14, 2015, 02:36:32 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 13, 2015, 10:54:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 13, 2015, 09:56:43 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 13, 2015, 09:06:19 PM
Why didn't they abolish the USC today?
At what cost? And instead of what other cuts, or funded by what other rises? I don't know the exact figure, but isn't the USC a massive source of revenue?
Tax multi nationals at 12.5%. That would raise a few quid.

I see Yanks up in arms because we introduced a lower corp tax band rate of 6.25% in budget today.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 14, 2015, 02:39:52 AM
Quote from: NetNitrate on October 14, 2015, 02:36:32 AM
I see Yanks up in arms because we introduced a lower corp tax band rate of 6.25% in budget today.

Sure the Yanks are always up in arms, its their constitutional right!

The knowledge box is good though, as it complies with the OECD agreement last week and it requires anyone availing of it to actually do some brain work in Ireland and hire a significant number of boffins in Ireland to do it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 14, 2015, 11:23:03 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2015, 02:39:52 AMt
Quote from: NetNitrate on October 14, 2015, 02:36:32 AM
I see Yanks up in arms because we introduced a lower corp tax band rate of 6.25% in budget today.

Sure the Yanks are always up in arms, its their constitutional right!

The knowledge box is good though, as it complies with the OECD agreement last week and it requires anyone availing of it to actually do some brain work in Ireland and hire a significant number of boffins in Ireland to do it.
Even if it creates employment having tax rates of 6.5 is wrong when public services are the way they are.  12.5 is a low rate and they're not even paying it. Knew Dinny would be looked after. Hadn't heard about this though. 6.5 is a disgrace when we're running a deficit.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 11:34:51 AM
Sinn Pain moaning that the Budget is a return to "Boom and Bust" policies :D.
Ya couldn't make it up :o
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Ulick on October 14, 2015, 12:36:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 11:34:51 AM
Sinn Pain moaning that the Budget is a return to "Boom and Bust" policies :D.
Ya couldn't make it up :o

Fine Gael and Labour use the people's own money to bribe them while doing northing to improve the 3rd world health system. Health gets €18m and the top earners a €180m tax cut. If that's not "Boom and Bust" I don't know what is. Anyone who buys this shite is nothing but peasant with no regard for society or their country.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: StephenC on October 14, 2015, 01:17:33 PM
Quote from: Ulick on October 14, 2015, 12:36:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 11:34:51 AM
Sinn Pain moaning that the Budget is a return to "Boom and Bust" policies :D.
Ya couldn't make it up :o

Fine Gael and Labour use the people's own money to bribe them while doing northing to improve the 3rd world health system. Health gets €18m and the top earners a €180m tax cut. If that's not "Boom and Bust" I don't know what is. Anyone who buys this shite is nothing but peasant with no regard for society or their country.

Is more money the answer to our "3rd world health system"? One thing that has been consistent over the last 25 years, through boom and bust, through cuts and more expenditure, has been the poor state of the health service. Can we honestly say that a lack of budget is the main cause of that?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Ulick on October 14, 2015, 01:35:31 PM
Quote from: StephenC on October 14, 2015, 01:17:33 PM
Quote from: Ulick on October 14, 2015, 12:36:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 11:34:51 AM
Sinn Pain moaning that the Budget is a return to "Boom and Bust" policies :D.
Ya couldn't make it up :o

Fine Gael and Labour use the people's own money to bribe them while doing northing to improve the 3rd world health system. Health gets €18m and the top earners a €180m tax cut. If that's not "Boom and Bust" I don't know what is. Anyone who buys this shite is nothing but peasant with no regard for society or their country.

Is more money the answer to our "3rd world health system"? One thing that has been consistent over the last 25 years, through boom and bust, through cuts and more expenditure, has been the poor state of the health service. Can we honestly say that a lack of budget is the main cause of that?

No but the budget typifies the lack of vision, leadership and an absolute disdain for vast majority of the people.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 02:39:20 PM
Vast majority of the people will have a little more in their pockets from 1st January.
Sorting out our Health Service seems to be beyond human capability.
However I hope none of ye ever have to use a real third world health service.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on October 14, 2015, 02:41:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 02:39:20 PM
Sorting out our Health Service seems to be beyond human capability.

Is that you, Pontius?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Ulick on October 14, 2015, 03:01:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 02:39:20 PM
Vast majority of the people will have a little more in their pockets from 1st January.
Sorting out our Health Service seems to be beyond human capability.
However I hope none of ye ever have to use a real third world health service.

"A little extra" in their pockets means fck all in a society where half the population are living in absolute fear of what will happen them and their families because they won't be able to afford adequate treatment if they get sick.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 14, 2015, 03:03:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 02:39:20 PM
Vast majority of the people will have a little more in their pockets from 1st January.
Sorting out our Health Service seems to be beyond human capability.
However I hope none of ye ever have to use a real third world health service.

You mean Fine Gael and Labour have failed too?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: SLIGONIAN on October 14, 2015, 04:36:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 02:39:20 PM
Vast majority of the people will have a little more in their pockets from 1st January.
Sorting out our Health Service seems to be beyond human capability.
However I hope none of ye ever have to use a real third world health service.
Have you?

Also starving a Health system of funds so you can force through privatization is exactly what and irish and british govts are doing.

And by saying vast majority you mean corporations and by more money you mean taking it away from us elsewhere....
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 04:37:08 PM
Quote from: Ulick on October 14, 2015, 03:01:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 02:39:20 PM
Vast majority of the people will have a little more in their pockets from 1st January.
Sorting out our Health Service seems to be beyond human capability.
However I hope none of ye ever have to use a real third world health service.

"A little extra" in their pockets means fck all in a society where half the population are living in absolute fear of what will happen them and their families because they won't be able to afford adequate treatment if they get sick.
I've had 2 serious ailments and got treated and sorted out by the Health Service.
Excellent treatment and now fully cured.
I wonder how were SinnPain  going to improve the Health Services seeing as all they have to offer is abolishing taxes.
How right wing ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 04:43:27 PM
Once you are in the health system, it's not bad from my, thankfully, limited experience. The doctors and nurses are great.

It's A&E that is the biggest blight on the health service. I had to go into my sister in law who was in A&E with her little lad, with a chest infection. She was waiting to see a doctor, but was at least in a cubicle with a bed and curtain around them.

Outside was like a war zone. Trollies everywhere, and a plasma screen that said average wait to see doctor was 7 hours. That can't be right.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 04:50:36 PM
It will take €s to hire more doctors, nurses, technical and back up people, provide more wards and beds.
But does Paddy want to pay the extra tax to pay for all that?
ROI population in 1996 was 3.5 m now 4.5 m. But no expansion of hospitals to take care of the extra million.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on October 14, 2015, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 04:50:36 PM
It will take €s to hire more doctors, nurses, technical and back up people, provide more wards and beds.
But does Paddy want to pay the extra tax to pay for all that?
ROI population in 1996 was 3.5 m now 4.5 m. But no expansion of hospitals to take care of the extra million.

The issue with the health service is not just about funding. The UK spends marginally more of its GDP on health care (http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS) than Ireland and gets a vastly superior outcome. Yes, it's difficult to cut through the Gordion knot of conflicting interest groups that is the health service in Ireland. But it's an absolute cop-out to say that it is "beyond human capability" or to blame the electorate for an unwillingness to pony up more dough.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 05:08:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 14, 2015, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 04:50:36 PM
It will take €s to hire more doctors, nurses, technical and back up people, provide more wards and beds.
But does Paddy want to pay the extra tax to pay for all that?
ROI population in 1996 was 3.5 m now 4.5 m. But no expansion of hospitals to take care of the extra million.

The issue with the health service is not just about funding. The UK spends marginally more of its GDP on health care (http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS) than Ireland and gets a vastly superior outcome. Yes, it's difficult to cut through the Gordion knot of conflicting interest groups that is the health service in Ireland. But it's an absolute cop-out to say that it is "beyond human capability" or to blame the electorate for an unwillingness to pony up more dough.

Yes deiseach. Value for money versus just throwing more money at it. The health budget is fairly massive, but the money is being wasted in so many ways.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 14, 2015, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 14, 2015, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 04:50:36 PM
It will take €s to hire more doctors, nurses, technical and back up people, provide more wards and beds.
But does Paddy want to pay the extra tax to pay for all that?
ROI population in 1996 was 3.5 m now 4.5 m. But no expansion of hospitals to take care of the extra million.

The issue with the health service is not just about funding. The UK spends marginally more of its GDP on health care (http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS) than Ireland and gets a vastly superior outcome. Yes, it's difficult to cut through the Gordion knot of conflicting interest groups that is the health service in Ireland. But it's an absolute cop-out to say that it is "beyond human capability" or to blame the electorate for an unwillingness to pony up more dough.
Economies of scale are surely a factor, no?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Bingo on October 14, 2015, 05:20:32 PM
My wife is a nurse in the HSE.

The major changes that she has seen in the HSE over the years is form filling and ever changing "best practice". No matter what is done now the paperwork trail takes more time than the care. Was talk of a work to rule recently and any nurse/doctor interviewed stated that it would improve the service of care as they would actually get to do the job they are there to do.

She says that half the day can be taken up responding to a stream of queries from the bank of administrators that are employed "upstairs" or trying to implement new measures of care or procedures than are been imposed from the latest review of best practice from another team of consultants who waltzed through the wards months back and identified improvements that could be made before waltzing off again to write a thousand page report with fancy graphs and pie carts and earned them a lot of money.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on October 14, 2015, 05:24:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 14, 2015, 05:20:04 PM
Economies of scale are surely a factor, no?

Not a big one, I would have thought. If it were, the United States would have the best health service in the developed world.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 14, 2015, 05:34:21 PM
Quote from: Ulick on October 14, 2015, 12:36:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 11:34:51 AM
Sinn Pain moaning that the Budget is a return to "Boom and Bust" policies :D.
Ya couldn't make it up :o

Fine Gael and Labour use the people's own money to bribe them while doing northing to improve the 3rd world health system. Health gets €18m and the top earners a €180m tax cut. If that's not "Boom and Bust" I don't know what is. Anyone who buys this shite is nothing but peasant with no regard for society or their country.

Everyone is paying less tax, not so much as a case of using people's money to bribe them but of taking less money off the people.

As noted before the health service is often fine, but has some astonishing failings which are  rightly widely publicised. These failures of management reflect failures all the way up to the political system, and SF proposals to cut doctors pay for political reasons is a good example of this. 

It is worth noting that people live longer in the 26 counties than the 6. SF might well either look to the administration of the part of the country where it is in government or else try and achieve a United Ireland; sadly it does neither of these things.

Quote from: Bingo on October 14, 2015, 05:20:32 PM
My wife is a nurse in the HSE.

The major changes that she has seen in the HSE over the years is form filling and ever changing "best practice". No matter what is done now the paperwork trail takes more time than the care. Was talk of a work to rule recently and any nurse/doctor interviewed stated that it would improve the service of care as they would actually get to do the job they are there to do.

She says that half the day can be taken up responding to a stream of queries from the bank of administrators that are employed "upstairs" or trying to implement new measures of care or procedures than are been imposed from the latest review of best practice from another team of consultants who waltzed through the wards months back and identified improvements that could be made before waltzing off again to write a thousand page report with fancy graphs and pie carts and earned them a lot of money.

What is needed is root and branch process improvement from the ground up. Every paperwork requirement should be priced in terms of the opportunity cost of the diversion from medical duties. IT could do a lot to speed things up.

One of the reasons I have contempt for Labour and that clown Howlin is that a truly Labour approach to recent hardship would have been to talk to staff and have them identify pointless paperwork and the like, freeing up time to keep the service going. Instead all we have a reports which nobody implements anyhow.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 06:04:12 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 14, 2015, 05:07:13 PM
. But it's an absolute cop-out to say that it is "beyond human capability" or to blame the electorate for an unwillingness to pony up more dough.
3,000 bedstaken out in 1987 were never restored. Will cost €s to do so.
Martin, Cowen, Harney, Reilly and Varadkar all humans who tried and failed.
Time Leo sent for the expert Mr Deiseach who obviously has the answer :P
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 14, 2015, 06:33:06 PM
Too many pen pushers resulting in too much bureaucracy.  Focus is on admin rather than patient care. Pen pushers trying to justify their positions delaying patient care and eating up resources.  Same across all public sector bodies in ireland except we're dealing with people's lives in rhe HSE. Like everything else in this kip no value for money but its ok folks, Rossfan has a few extra euro in his deep pocket.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Declan on October 15, 2015, 10:31:04 AM
Here's how the public broadcaster operates as the official mouthpiece of the government Ireland. Why am I not surprised?

Anyone listening to Today with Sean O'Rourke on RTE radio yesterday may have wondered why Michael Noonan and Brendan Howlin sounded so confident of their answers. Well, the reason, as I can exclusively reveal, is that they knew the questions beforehand, and their civil servants had already worked on the replies.

This is the type of behind-the-scenes information you can discover when you are accidentally ushered into the wrong room and nobody in that room realises you are a journalist. Despite the fact that you are carrying a shorthand notebook, holding a pen aloft and sporting the desperately hopeful expression of a person needing to wring one more story from a budget that has already been leaked, announced and analysed to within an inch of its fiscal life.

I was supposed to be in RTE to write a colour piece, but I ended up in what seemed like an episode of The Thick of It.

Having been guided into a room full of the national broadcaster's staff and Department of Finance officials, I perched myself on an available sofa. I didn't know this area was off-limits for hacks and I didn't know I wasn't meant to be there. The Department of Finance staff must have thought I was with RTE. RTE must have thought I was with the Department of Finance. Nobody asked me to leave and so I stayed.

Then all hell broke loose. One of Mr Noonan's advisors appeared and bore down on one of the producers of the Today programme. With all the charm of an autocrat, he explained that neither the finance minister or the public expenditure minister would so much as breathe on a microphone unless all phone-in questions were made available beforehand.

RTE hesitated diplomatically, but were shut down by the official's insistence.

"No. We're going to be very clear on this, the ministers will not go on air before seeing them first," he demanded.

A producer relented and handed over the questions. Pages were passed between departmental staff and frantic calls were made while political responses were hastily crafted.

One civil servant paced the floor, iPhone to his ear, beseeching whoever was listening for the most appropriate response to a homeless mother forced to live in a Dublin hotel for nearly six months with her nine-year-old daughter.

Shrouded in my own irrelevance, I lasted a good half-hour in the room, taking it all in. Eventually I began to wonder if I was meant to be an audience to this live performance of Yes Minister, and was about to ask, when circumstances intervened.

Another, better-known journalist was also mistakenly ushered into the room and I was rumbled by association. Hence I was shooed upstairs to join the rest of the undesirable fourth estate in a cramped, wood-panelled conference room.

We gathered round a digital radio to hear, via a national broadcast, what was happening 15-odd feet down the hall. For me, it was the listening equivalent of déjà vu.

I was just in time to hear Erica, the homeless woman who had caused so much consternation in the pre-programme preparation, graciously explaining how utterly useless the budget was to her and her nine-year-old daughter.

"A fiver on children's allowance, whoop-de-doo. What am I supposed to do with that? How is that supposed to help the situation? We are homeless. That's €5 I already had, that you took off me a couple of years ago," she said.

"I understood you were in receipt of lone parents allowance . . . " Mr Howlin said, presumably referring to his carefully crafted notes.

"No, I work! I work part-time! I don't get lone parents, so stop saying that," Erica said, deviating outrageously from the script.

Scalded by my earlier insubordination, I obediently waited until the end of the broadcast before attending the government-designated interview opportunity. The ministers were wheeled out for us, unscorched by a tame hour's broadcast. They stayed and fielded four whole questions from the assembled press. In the background, Marty Whelan strode merrily by.

Both the department of the finance and the department of public expenditure declined to comment when asked why questions were demanded prior to the broadcast, and referred The Times to RTE. A spokeswoman for RTE insisted nothing untoward had taken place.

"The department press officers had no input into which calls went on air, or the order in which they were used. Nor were there any issues with the ministers appearing on this morning's programme," she
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on October 15, 2015, 10:39:57 AM
I don't think that's unusual Declan. Most of those type of shows have the questions pre-vetted so that the politician has a chance to research figures etc. I'm pretty sure those studio TV shows like Question Time in the UK and Questions and Answers here are the same. I remember my Uncle was trade union rep for London Bus, and he was on Question Time as an audience member with a question for Tony Blair. His question was submitted the day before, but he was allowed actually 'ask' it from the floor when the show was being broadcast.

Follow up questions are usually not scripted, but I suppose I can see the value of allowing them research some meaningful answers.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Declan on October 15, 2015, 10:51:43 AM
I understand the Question Time type shows AZ as they are usually filled with party hacks etc and to minimise the risk of a lunatic etc. But this is the main State Broadcaster the day after the budget when all the prep had been done and handlers refusing to let them speak without seeing the actual individual questions themselves - I know there is a broad agreement about the approach interviews take but this sort of micro management shows how scared they are of actual debate and, I'm loath to use the term but, "free speech". 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 15, 2015, 10:54:44 AM
God help ya Declan but you're awful innocent ::)
Where have you been for the last few decades since this kind of thing first started.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on October 15, 2015, 10:59:36 AM
Quote from: Declan on October 15, 2015, 10:51:43 AM
I understand the Question Time type shows AZ as they are usually filled with party hacks etc and to minimise the risk of a lunatic etc. But this is the main State Broadcaster the day after the budget when all the prep had been done and handlers refusing to let them speak without seeing the actual individual questions themselves - I know there is a broad agreement about the approach interviews take but this sort of micro management shows how scared they are of actual debate and, I'm loath to use the term but, "free speech".

Not sure. I think you might be making more of this than is actually there. I don't think any question was 'refused', they just wanted to get their facts straight before answering them. To be honest, if I had emailed a question in, I'd be happier if they went away and researched it, rather than gave the stock political non-answer to a question they don't know.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 11:27:26 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 06:04:12 PM
3,000 bedstaken out in 1987 were never restored. Will cost €s to do so.
Martin, Cowen, Harney, Reilly and Varadkar all humans who tried and failed.
Time Leo sent for the expert Mr Deiseach who obviously has the answer :P

If 'Leo' does ask me for advice, I'd tell him that there are better systems out there. If he asks you for advice, you'll tell him that it can't be fixed. I was acquainted with him in college and found him to be a likeable and open-minded man - shure isn't he one of our own? I fear you might be the type of party hack with which he is surrounded these days though.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Declan on October 15, 2015, 11:28:23 AM
Quote
God help ya Declan but you're awful innocent ::)
Where have you been for the last few decades since this kind of thing first started.

Maybe but as I said I've heard of a broad approach to topics being agreed beforehand but never  give me the list of all the questions or else I'm not going on.

QuoteNot sure. I think you might be making more of this than is actually there. I don't think any question was 'refused', they just wanted to get their facts straight before answering them. To be honest, if I had emailed a question in, I'd be happier if they went away and researched it, rather than gave the stock political non-answer to a question they don't know.

Well I think this shows they refused - "No. We're going to be very clear on this, the ministers will not go on air before seeing them first," he demanded

Anyway my main point was not so much at the politicians but RTE's acquiescence - in the circumstance it's the budget, the handlers and ministers had flagged and leaked enough info beforehand to ensure a favourable reception and would have been fully prepped on scenarios and bog standard questions. It shows an innate lack of self confidence in their ability to think on your feet and to respond to situations but then again that shouldn't surprise me either given their background, history and performances over their careers   
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on October 15, 2015, 11:36:33 AM
No, they refused to go on without seeing the questions. They didn't refuse to answer any of the questions. And I think this is common practice across political programmes across the world.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 15, 2015, 11:54:03 AM
Quote from: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 11:27:26 AM
? I fear you might be the type of party hack with which he is surrounded these days though.
I AM NOT A MEMBER OF ANY POLITICAL PARTY.
Can I take it you don't live in Ireland any more?
Your narrow literal take on a throw away remark would suggest you've lost touch with the Irish way of saying things.
As for Leo - at least be cut the bullsh1te when he went to Health.
He said " I need more money if I'm to run a Health Service".
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Declan on October 15, 2015, 12:02:13 PM
Ok I'm going to be a pedantic now

QuoteI don't think any question was 'refused', they just wanted to get their facts straight before answering them

I never said they refused to answer any questions - my initial response was

Quoterefusing to let them speak without seeing the actual individual questions themselves

QuoteNo, they refused to go on without seeing the questions. They didn't refuse to answer any of the questions. And I think this is common practice across political programmes across the world.

and then I said

Quote
Well I think this shows they refused - "No. We're going to be very clear on this, the ministers will not go on air before seeing them first," he demanded

I think that means that we disagree to agree  ;) ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 12:04:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 15, 2015, 11:54:03 AM
Quote from: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 11:27:26 AM
? I fear you might be the type of party hack with which he is surrounded these days though.
I AM NOT A MEMBER OF ANY POLITICAL PARTY.
Can I take it you don't live in Ireland any more?
Your narrow literal take on a throw away remark would suggest you've lost touch with the Irish way of saying things.
As for Leo - at least be cut the bullsh1te when he went to Health.
He said " I need more money if I'm to run a Health Service".

Translation: I said something really stupid and am now resorting to claiming the other person lacks some mystical ability to read between the lines rather than admitting it.

Let's cut the bullsh1te. You are an apologist for everything that Fine Gael say and do - you don't have to be a member of the party to be that - which makes your contribution on any political topic about as useful as anything the Shinner bots might say.

Edit: the more I think about it  . . . I know I shouldn't, but I can't help it . . . I've "lost touch with the Irish way of saying things"? Maybe it's my English wife that has diluted my ability to commune with the spirit of Irishness. Does this mean my half-Anglo son can never truly understand the way his peers talk, always condemned to be on the outside of any conversation thanks to all the apples-and-pears talk he hears at home? It's the same kind of (hard of) thinking you see from the Shinners that I find so contemptible. You should be thoroughly ashamed of that comment.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Ulick on October 15, 2015, 12:24:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2015, 05:34:21 PM
Everyone is paying less tax, not so much as a case of using people's money to bribe them but of taking less money off the people.

As noted before the health service is often fine, but has some astonishing failings which are  rightly widely publicised. These failures of management reflect failures all the way up to the political system, and SF proposals to cut doctors pay for political reasons is a good example of this. 

It is worth noting that people live longer in the 26 counties than the 6. SF might well either look to the administration of the part of the country where it is in government or else try and achieve a United Ireland; sadly it does neither of these things.

You may want to argue over systematics but it amounts to the same thing. I think there are plenty of SF threads about for you to derail if you wish rather tan the FG one.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Ulick on October 15, 2015, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 11:27:26 AM
If 'Leo' does ask me for advice, I'd tell him that there are better systems out there. If he asks you for advice, you'll tell him that it can't be fixed. I was acquainted with him in college and found him to be a likeable and open-minded man - shure isn't he one of our own? I fear you might be the type of party hack with which he is surrounded these days though.

One of our own?

€18k per year

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King's_Hospital (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King's_Hospital)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 12:36:26 PM
Quote from: Ulick on October 15, 2015, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 11:27:26 AM
If 'Leo' does ask me for advice, I'd tell him that there are better systems out there. If he asks you for advice, you'll tell him that it can't be fixed. I was acquainted with him in college and found him to be a likeable and open-minded man - shure isn't he one of our own? I fear you might be the type of party hack with which he is surrounded these days though.

One of our own?

€18k per year

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King's_Hospital (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King's_Hospital)

His mother is from Dungarvan.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on October 15, 2015, 12:38:37 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 15, 2015, 12:02:13 PM
Ok I'm going to be a pedantic now

QuoteI don't think any question was 'refused', they just wanted to get their facts straight before answering them

I never said they refused to answer any questions - my initial response was

Quoterefusing to let them speak without seeing the actual individual questions themselves

QuoteNo, they refused to go on without seeing the questions. They didn't refuse to answer any of the questions. And I think this is common practice across political programmes across the world.

and then I said

Quote
Well I think this shows they refused - "No. We're going to be very clear on this, the ministers will not go on air before seeing them first," he demanded

I think that means that we disagree to agree  ;) ;)

No need to be pedantic. I was following along with you ok. What I was saying was that, even though I understand you not liking the handlers demanding to see the questions before the ministers went on air, that is not the same thing, or as bad as, if they had actually refused to handle any of the questions they were then shown.

Preparation as opposed to avoidance, if you catch my drift.

Anyway, they are all langers, so it's no skin off my nose, but this story is trying to make something more of what is a regular occurrence around the world.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Ulick on October 15, 2015, 12:47:52 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 05:08:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 14, 2015, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 04:50:36 PM
It will take €s to hire more doctors, nurses, technical and back up people, provide more wards and beds.
But does Paddy want to pay the extra tax to pay for all that?
ROI population in 1996 was 3.5 m now 4.5 m. But no expansion of hospitals to take care of the extra million.

The issue with the health service is not just about funding. The UK spends marginally more of its GDP on health care (http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS) than Ireland and gets a vastly superior outcome. Yes, it's difficult to cut through the Gordion knot of conflicting interest groups that is the health service in Ireland. But it's an absolute cop-out to say that it is "beyond human capability" or to blame the electorate for an unwillingness to pony up more dough.

Yes deiseach. Value for money versus just throwing more money at it. The health budget is fairly massive, but the money is being wasted in so many ways.

Deiseach, hits on a very relevant point about the conflicting interest groups which is at the core of a lot of the problems in the south i.e. politicians patching policy and legislation together via back-room deals to accommodate x, y and z. The Free State is a principle-free, policy-free society where everything and anything is on the table when it comes to enacting legislation and getting re-elected.
We we started from a principle of say, "every citizen entitled to the same level of and quality of medical treatment",  "every citizen shall have the same access to education" instead of pandering to private interests then we'd see some radical solutions.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 15, 2015, 03:07:23 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 12:04:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 15, 2015, 11:54:03 AM
Quote from: deiseach on October 15, 2015, 11:27:26 AM
? I fear you might be the type of party hack with which he is surrounded these days though.
I AM NOT A MEMBER OF ANY POLITICAL PARTY.
Can I take it you don't live in Ireland any more?
Your narrow literal take on a throw away remark would suggest you've lost touch with the Irish way of saying things.
As for Leo - at least be cut the bullsh1te when he went to Health.
He said " I need more money if I'm to run a Health Service".

Translation: I said something really stupid and am now resorting to claiming the other person lacks some mystical ability to read between the lines rather than admitting it.

Let's cut the bullsh1te. You are an apologist for everything that Fine Gael say and do - you don't have to be a member of the party to be that - which makes your contribution on any political topic about as useful as anything the Shinner bots might say.

Edit: the more I think about it  . . . I know I shouldn't, but I can't help it . . . I've "lost touch with the Irish way of saying things"? Maybe it's my English wife that has diluted my ability to commune with the spirit of Irishness. Does this mean my half-Anglo son can never truly understand the way his peers talk, always condemned to be on the outside of any conversation thanks to all the apples-and-pears talk he hears at home? It's the same kind of (hard of) thinking you see from the Shinners that I find so contemptible. You should be thoroughly ashamed of that comment.

Jasuz but that's some abusive inaccurate rant to throw at anyone.
You're the only one to bring your wife and son into it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 15, 2015, 07:43:00 PM
Leaving Rossfans insults at Deiseach to one side does anyone think that FG was right to give Paddy Cosgrave the cold shoulder with his demands for the Web Summit?


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Declan on October 15, 2015, 09:00:22 PM
For a self confessed entrepreneur Paddy does some whinging about the lack of Government support. Nothing much they can do about hotel prices, the wifi in the RDS or traffic management directly. Only issue was the public transport but that's not a short term resolution
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 15, 2015, 09:14:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 15, 2015, 07:43:00 PM
Leaving Rossfans insults at Deiseach to one side does anyone think that FG was right to give Paddy Cosgrave the cold shoulder with his demands for the Web Summit?

Bottle bank opening in Belmullet clashing with 2016 Web Summit.  Only one winner in that clash.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 15, 2015, 09:40:50 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 15, 2015, 09:00:22 PM
For a self confessed entrepreneur Paddy does some whinging about the lack of Government support. Nothing much they can do about hotel prices, the wifi in the RDS or traffic management directly. Only issue was the public transport but that's not a short term resolution

Room prices are capped in many countries, a figure of €300 or the like would allow hotels do well without gouging. Traffic management is a public function, although the wifi in the RDS isn't really a government issue. Public transport is also regulated by government, although the former railway connection to the RDS is now a Toyota dealer.

I think here at least some people in public employ decided not to bother.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 15, 2015, 10:08:32 PM
Quote from: Declan on October 15, 2015, 09:00:22 PM
For a self confessed entrepreneur Paddy does some whinging about the lack of Government support. Nothing much they can do about hotel prices, the wifi in the RDS or traffic management directly. Only issue was the public transport but that's not a short term resolution

For once I agree with Fine Gael. I don't see why the government should be threatened by an "entrepreneur" requesting state facilities to be put at his disposal.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 15, 2015, 10:11:52 PM
Speaking of entrepreneurs...this is fairly worrying that he can have offices raided...

"Mr O'Brien's lawyers went to the High Court yesterday seeking orders to allow them to search Red Flag's premises"

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/1014/734819-denis-obrien/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on October 16, 2015, 10:56:34 AM
On the web summit, I get the impression that Paddy Cosgrove wanted an excuse, let's face it Lisbon is twice the size of Dublin, economically it makes perfect sense. He's not beyond staging something like this.
Asking for the government to do something About the wifi in the RDS or hotel prices, FFS, what does he want the government to do? Tell the RDS they have to allow a third party in? Paddy could easily have moved it to the Aviva or Croke Park and gotten all that.
The traffic was a reasonable request but I don't think it was a huge issue last year.

Paddy isn't the most likeable fella but u have to admire the web summit but this is a stunt.

Having said that the government didn't exactly cover themselves in glory but Paddy would have known they were a slow moving bunch anyway
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on October 16, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: Ulick on October 15, 2015, 12:47:52 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 14, 2015, 05:08:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 14, 2015, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2015, 04:50:36 PM
It will take €s to hire more doctors, nurses, technical and back up people, provide more wards and beds.
But does Paddy want to pay the extra tax to pay for all that?
ROI population in 1996 was 3.5 m now 4.5 m. But no expansion of hospitals to take care of the extra million.

The issue with the health service is not just about funding. The UK spends marginally more of its GDP on health care (http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS) than Ireland and gets a vastly superior outcome. Yes, it's difficult to cut through the Gordion knot of conflicting interest groups that is the health service in Ireland. But it's an absolute cop-out to say that it is "beyond human capability" or to blame the electorate for an unwillingness to pony up more dough.

Yes deiseach. Value for money versus just throwing more money at it. The health budget is fairly massive, but the money is being wasted in so many ways.

Deiseach, hits on a very relevant point about the conflicting interest groups which is at the core of a lot of the problems in the south i.e. politicians patching policy and legislation together via back-room deals to accommodate x, y and z. The Free State is a principle-free, policy-free society where everything and anything is on the table when it comes to enacting legislation and getting re-elected.
We we started from a principle of say, "every citizen entitled to the same level of and quality of medical treatment",  "every citizen shall have the same access to education" instead of pandering to private interests then we'd see some radical solutions.

It isn't all about 'private interests'. Taxpayers have a right to demand fairness and see value for money. It is bad enough of being gouged for substandard services but then being constantly abused by the far-left for not being gouged enough is hard to take.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Canalman on October 16, 2015, 05:28:58 PM
Think FG will regret not having the GE in the next month or so. Pretty positive soundings now.
Am amazed that they will risk a "winter of discontent" or "events" .

Still think we will be facing two quick elections before a stable government emerges .

FG will do well but will find it hard to get a coalition partner.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 16, 2015, 05:57:32 PM
Quote from: Ulick on October 15, 2015, 12:47:52 PM
Deiseach, hits on a very relevant point about the conflicting interest groups which is at the core of a lot of the problems in the south i.e. politicians patching policy and legislation together via back-room deals to accommodate x, y and z. The Free State is a principle-free, policy-free society where everything and anything is on the table when it comes to enacting legislation and getting re-elected.
We we started from a principle of say, "every citizen entitled to the same level of and quality of medical treatment",  "every citizen shall have the same access to education" instead of pandering to private interests then we'd see some radical solutions.

I would use the word unprincipled rather than principle-free.
Of course there are many principles that might be applied, one might be that people who work should not have their money taken from them and given to those who prefer not to work.

Quote from: muppet on October 16, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
It isn't all about 'private interests'. Taxpayers have a right to demand fairness and see value for money. It is bad enough of being gouged for substandard services but then being constantly abused by the far-left for not being gouged enough is hard to take.

Unfortunately "value for money"is rarely part of the debate at all. There is never a debate that says, this is reasonable value for money, that is not, lets concentrate on improving the latter.  It is either all public expenditure is a waste or there isn't enough money.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on October 16, 2015, 06:12:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2015, 05:57:32 PM
Quote from: Ulick on October 15, 2015, 12:47:52 PM
Deiseach, hits on a very relevant point about the conflicting interest groups which is at the core of a lot of the problems in the south i.e. politicians patching policy and legislation together via back-room deals to accommodate x, y and z. The Free State is a principle-free, policy-free society where everything and anything is on the table when it comes to enacting legislation and getting re-elected.
We we started from a principle of say, "every citizen entitled to the same level of and quality of medical treatment",  "every citizen shall have the same access to education" instead of pandering to private interests then we'd see some radical solutions.

I would use the word unprincipled rather than principle-free.
Of course there are many principles that might be applied, one might be that people who work should not have their money taken from them and given to those who prefer not to work.

Quote from: muppet on October 16, 2015, 05:15:24 PM
It isn't all about 'private interests'. Taxpayers have a right to demand fairness and see value for money. It is bad enough of being gouged for substandard services but then being constantly abused by the far-left for not being gouged enough is hard to take.

Unfortunately "value for money"is rarely part of the debate at all. There is never a debate that says, this is reasonable value for money, that is not, lets concentrate on improving the latter.  It is either all public expenditure is a waste or there isn't enough money.

I didn't make my point very well. It is about labels. Ulick positions SF as demanding free health and education for all, and quickly labels anyone who scrutinises this noble ideal as the dreaded 'private interests'. Us good, them bad.

It is a well worn tactic, 'Axis of Evil', 'War on Terror'. Basically 'themmuns' are doing you out of something, threatening you or are going to eat your children.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 16, 2015, 07:25:10 PM
And yet SF are against taxes and are cutting them in every Council they have any clout.
Then they are the first to moan when said Councils aren't able to afford to do something.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 16, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Exactly.SF go on about homelessness and more council houses, but vote to cut the property tax in every council. They say that people should contribute, but not their own voters, of course. Principle-free, as said above.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 16, 2015, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Exactly.SF go on about hthomelessness and more council houses, but vote to cut the property tax in every council. They say that people should contribute, but not their own voters, of course. Principle-free, as said above.
Not that I'd ever vote for them but Sinn Fein state quite clearly that they would fund services by way of wealth tax and making sure multi nationals pay their fair share. Current govt are siphoning money from road tax to fund Irish Water. Sinn Fein are an eady target but u still missed. Austerity over but homeless people increasing. Something not adding up.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 16, 2015, 10:58:22 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 16, 2015, 10:25:32 PM
Not that I'd ever vote for them but Sinn Fein state quite clearly that they would fund services by way of wealth tax and making sure multi nationals pay their fair share. Current govt are siphoning money from road tax to fund Irish Water. Sinn Fein are an eady target but u still missed. Austerity over but homeless people increasing. Something not adding up.

In a society with universal services you have to have universal taxes to fund them. You can some variation in the rate of tax, but everyone has to do their bit. SF peddle the notion that only a few people should pay taxes and that this will give everything to everything.

Making multinationals paying their fair share is all very fine, provided they don't just leave. But the new OECD proposals should help ensure that some tax is paid.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on October 16, 2015, 11:01:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 16, 2015, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Exactly.SF go on about hthomelessness and more council houses, but vote to cut the property tax in every council. They say that people should contribute, but not their own voters, of course. Principle-free, as said above.
Not that I'd ever vote for them but Sinn Fein state quite clearly that they would fund services by way of wealth tax and making sure multi nationals pay their fair share. Current govt are siphoning money from road tax to fund Irish Water. Sinn Fein are an eady target but u still missed. Austerity over but homeless people increasing. Something not adding up.


SF giving out govt did not do enough to keep Web Summit by providing incentives; how do they think multinationals will stick around if we tax them more.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 16, 2015, 11:15:17 PM
SF welcome business

(http://the-penultimate-word.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/duplicitous1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Owenmoresider on October 17, 2015, 01:38:03 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 16, 2015, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Exactly.SF go on about hthomelessness and more council houses, but vote to cut the property tax in every council. They say that people should contribute, but not their own voters, of course. Principle-free, as said above.
Not that I'd ever vote for them but Sinn Fein state quite clearly that they would fund services by way of wealth tax and making sure multi nationals pay their fair share. Current govt are siphoning money from road tax to fund Irish Water. Sinn Fein are an eady target but u still missed. Austerity over but homeless people increasing. Something not adding up.
Distinct whiff of bullshit off that.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 17, 2015, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 16, 2015, 11:01:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 16, 2015, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Exactly.SF go on about hthomelessness and more council houses, but vote to cut the property tax in every council. They say that people should contribute, but not their own voters, of course. Principle-free, as said above.
Not that I'd ever vote for them but Sinn Fein state quite clearly that they would fund services by way of wealth tax and making sure multi nationals pay their fair share. Current govt are siphoning money from road tax to fund Irish Water. Sinn Fein are an eady target but u still missed. Austerity over but homeless people increasing. Something not adding up.


SF giving out govt did not do enough to keep Web Summit by providing incentives; how do they think multinationals will stick around if we tax them more.
Why should multi nationals pay less than 12.5% yet indigenous companies get fleeced? Spineless govt. Of course multi nationals will flex and threaten but it's possibly a big bluff. Switching costs can be significant depending on sector.  Tesco threatened to pull out of the north when the larger companies were made to subsidise smaller local companies' rates.  They opened their biggest store a few months after.  You believe the spin but hopefully someone calls their bluff. A start would be to make them pay the actal rate..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 17, 2015, 04:53:21 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 17, 2015, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 16, 2015, 11:01:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 16, 2015, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Exactly.SF go on about hthomelessness and more council houses, but vote to cut the property tax in every council. They say that people should contribute, but not their own voters, of course. Principle-free, as said above.
Not that I'd ever vote for them but Sinn Fein state quite clearly that they would fund services by way of wealth tax and making sure multi nationals pay their fair share. Current govt are siphoning money from road tax to fund Irish Water. Sinn Fein are an eady target but u still missed. Austerity over but homeless people increasing. Something not adding up.


SF giving out govt did not do enough to keep Web Summit by providing incentives; how do they think multinationals will stick around if we tax them more.
Why should multi nationals pay less than 12.5% yet indigenous companies get fleeced? Spineless govt. Of course multi nationals will flex and threaten but it's possibly a big bluff. Switching costs can be significant depending on sector.  Tesco threatened to pull out of the north when the larger companies were made to subsidise smaller local companies' rates.  They opened their biggest store a few months after.  You believe the spin but hopefully someone calls their bluff. A start would be to make them pay the actal rate..

it keeps some of the natives in jobs. The government are seen to be creating jobs. That's about it. the rest is a tax dodge.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: StephenC on October 17, 2015, 09:16:34 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 17, 2015, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 16, 2015, 11:01:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 16, 2015, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Exactly.SF go on about hthomelessness and more council houses, but vote to cut the property tax in every council. They say that people should contribute, but not their own voters, of course. Principle-free, as said above.
Not that I'd ever vote for them but Sinn Fein state quite clearly that they would fund services by way of wealth tax and making sure multi nationals pay their fair share. Current govt are siphoning money from road tax to fund Irish Water. Sinn Fein are an eady target but u still missed. Austerity over but homeless people increasing. Something not adding up.


SF giving out govt did not do enough to keep Web Summit by providing incentives; how do they think multinationals will stick around if we tax them more.
Why should multi nationals pay less than 12.5% yet indigenous companies get fleeced? Spineless govt. Of course multi nationals will flex and threaten but it's possibly a big bluff. Switching costs can be significant depending on sector.  Tesco threatened to pull out of the north when the larger companies were made to subsidise smaller local companies' rates.  They opened their biggest store a few months after.  You believe the spin but hopefully someone calls their bluff. A start would be to make them pay the actal rate..

It's not.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 17, 2015, 11:05:05 PM
Quote from: StephenC on October 17, 2015, 09:16:34 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 17, 2015, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 16, 2015, 11:01:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 16, 2015, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Exactly.SF go on about hthomelessness and more council houses, but vote to cut the property tax in every council. They say that people should contribute, but not their own voters, of course. Principle-free, as said above.
Not that I'd ever vote for them but Sinn Fein state quite clearly that they would fund services by way of wealth tax and making sure multi nationals pay their fair share. Current govt are siphoning money from road tax to fund Irish Water. Sinn Fein are an eady target but u still missed. Austerity over but homeless people increasing. Something not adding up.


SF giving out govt did not do enough to keep Web Summit by providing incentives; how do they think multinationals will stick around if we tax them more.
Why should multi nationals pay less than 12.5% yet indigenous companies get fleeced? Spineless govt. Of course multi nationals will flex and threaten but it's possibly a big bluff. Switching costs can be significant depending on sector.  Tesco threatened to pull out of the north when the larger companies were made to subsidise smaller local companies' rates.  They opened their biggest store a few months after.  You believe the spin but hopefully someone calls their bluff. A start would be to make them pay the actal rate..

It's not.

Sure Enda!!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on October 17, 2015, 11:51:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 17, 2015, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 16, 2015, 11:01:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 16, 2015, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Exactly.SF go on about hthomelessness and more council houses, but vote to cut the property tax in every council. They say that people should contribute, but not their own voters, of course. Principle-free, as said above.
Not that I'd ever vote for them but Sinn Fein state quite clearly that they would fund services by way of wealth tax and making sure multi nationals pay their fair share. Current govt are siphoning money from road tax to fund Irish Water. Sinn Fein are an eady target but u still missed. Austerity over but homeless people increasing. Something not adding up.


SF giving out govt did not do enough to keep Web Summit by providing incentives; how do they think multinationals will stick around if we tax them more.
Why should multi nationals pay less than 12.5% yet indigenous companies get fleeced? Spineless govt. Of course multi nationals will flex and threaten but it's possibly a big bluff. Switching costs can be significant depending on sector.  Tesco threatened to pull out of the north when the larger companies were made to subsidise smaller local companies' rates.  They opened their biggest store a few months after.  You believe the spin but hopefully someone calls their bluff. A start would be to make them pay the actal rate..

And what rate of tax do you think Irish corporations pay?

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 18, 2015, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 17, 2015, 11:51:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 17, 2015, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 16, 2015, 11:01:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 16, 2015, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Exactly.SF go on about hthomelessness and more council houses, but vote to cut the property tax in every council. They say that people should contribute, but not their own voters, of course. Principle-free, as said above.
Not that I'd ever vote for them but Sinn Fein state quite clearly that they would fund services by way of wealth tax and making sure multi nationals pay their fair share. Current govt are siphoning money from road tax to fund Irish Water. Sinn Fein are an eady target but u still missed. Austerity over but homeless people increasing. Something not adding up.


SF giving out govt did not do enough to keep Web Summit by providing incentives; how do they think multinationals will stick around if we tax them more.
Why should multi nationals pay less than 12.5% yet indigenous companies get fleeced? Spineless govt. Of course multi nationals will flex and threaten but it's possibly a big bluff. Switching costs can be significant depending on sector.  Tesco threatened to pull out of the north when the larger companies were made to subsidise smaller local companies' rates.  They opened their biggest store a few months after.  You believe the spin but hopefully someone calls their bluff. A start would be to make them pay the actal rate..

And what rate of tax do you think Irish corporations pay?

Known fact that multi nationals don't pay the full 12.5. They get preferential treatment. To see how local SMEs are treated you need only look at this govt refusal to tackle upward only rents. Rates also went up during the recession.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on October 19, 2015, 01:30:05 PM
Quote from: Canalman on October 16, 2015, 05:28:58 PM

Still think we will be facing two quick elections before a stable government emerges .

FG will do well but will find it hard to get a coalition partner.

Yeah, practically guaranteed to be a hung Dail after the next election. Whatever govt is formed will be weak and relying on independents out to line the pockets of their own constituency
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on October 19, 2015, 01:53:32 PM
Quote from: Bingo on October 14, 2015, 05:20:32 PM
My wife is a nurse in the HSE.

The major changes that she has seen in the HSE over the years is form filling and ever changing "best practice". No matter what is done now the paperwork trail takes more time than the care. Was talk of a work to rule recently and any nurse/doctor interviewed stated that it would improve the service of care as they would actually get to do the job they are there to do.

She says that half the day can be taken up responding to a stream of queries from the bank of administrators that are employed "upstairs" or trying to implement new measures of care or procedures than are been imposed from the latest review of best practice from another team of consultants who waltzed through the wards months back and identified improvements that could be made before waltzing off again to write a thousand page report with fancy graphs and pie carts and earned them a lot of money.

I think that the problem here is the lack of a change management system, one group of people are identifying improvements but there's no clear plan in place to engage with the various stakeholders to ensure smooth implementation of changes. That doesn't mean that the administrators aren't working hard or doing their best, it just means that there's no framework in place to allow their work to be effective and no communication paths for clinical staff to feedback on changes made.

For what it's worth, I think there are a couple of relatively simple changes that could be made to improve the health service:

1. IT systems
This is something that badly needs investment, paper files and folders should be a thing of the past. This should all be electronic and accessed from tablets by whatever staff needs it. It immediately cuts out the time wasted looking for files and duplicating information; time spent checking if an x-ray has been processed, etc. Consultants would be able to access the data (scans, etc.) remotely so the level of care should improve as they could be available for more cases. Granted there would need to be a reasonable level of security for data protection but nothing more than what's currently in place for Revenue.

2. Purchasing
Without any knowledge of the purchasing systems in place, I'd wager that costs could be cut by 10-20% by introducing a better purchasing system. Using an ERP system to track purchasing and usage of drugs and consumables would be a start – it would also allow for comparison of these costs between hospitals (say on a per patient-treated basis or something). Using an external vendor to manage the inventory of non-critical items. Standardising and reducing the number of different items used (e.g. multiple brands of the same gloves being purchased) and the number of approved vendors along with benchmarking prices invariably reduces purchasing costs in manufacturing environments.

3. Business Process Mapping
How things are done at a macro and micro level – identifying and reducing variations between hospitals. Having a change-management plan to prioritise improvements and communicate with staff at each stage of implementation and in particular to verify that expected savings / improvements are realised. Not an easy thing to do in such a large organisation but not impossible either – the people are probably already in place but the overall structure may be missing.

4. Clinical Process Mapping
How best to treat patients – not something I'd have a clue about but it would need to involve clinicians and business analysts.


1 & 2 above are very simple and could be done within a couple of years. 3 & 4 are longer term and more difficult but there's no reason they can't be done imo. Simply throwing more money at a system that doesn't work isn't going to solve the problems we have
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on October 19, 2015, 11:20:57 PM
My god man, you are clearly working in the private sector with all these mad ideas. We won't have the like of you with your fancy ideas around the public sector.

Your last two points are called value stream mapping, a tool of lean manufacturing. It should be the first thing done in healthcare.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 19, 2015, 11:57:50 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2015, 11:20:57 PM
My god man, you are clearly working in the private sector with all these mad ideas. We won't have the like of you with your fancy ideas around the public sector.

Sadly this is too true and sadly people will continue to vote for Bollixes who keep it this way.

The pay cuts were designed to make sure any with a skill got cut more than mere clerks, which is all well and dandy except the IT guys noticed that IT pay was tending to increase if anything in the real world and they headed off there. Of course IT people are not frontline healthcare workers so if they left that was a reduction in the "admin" and some politician was probably boasting about this.

They may have done something on the purchasing end of things, but I seem to recall the very effective nurses guy, Liam Doran, saying something to the effect that if the HSE paid the same as the UK NHS for drugs that they wouldn't need to cut nurses at all .

And whatever fancy name you put on it, you have to identify the pinch points. I know little about health, but lets say diagnostic tests don't come back quickly then the treatment doesn't commence on the patient for an extra day and the patient spends 9 days in hospital instead of 8, that 10% if freed up would sort out emergency admission and a variety of other things. Because the diagnostic test facility is run "economically" the entire service might be in chaos. Does Varadkar has a list of these pinch points on his desk? Does he ask for one? What do you think? 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on October 20, 2015, 01:55:49 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 18, 2015, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 17, 2015, 11:51:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 17, 2015, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 16, 2015, 11:01:33 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 16, 2015, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2015, 08:30:36 PM
Exactly.SF go on about hthomelessness and more council houses, but vote to cut the property tax in every council. They say that people should contribute, but not their own voters, of course. Principle-free, as said above.
Not that I'd ever vote for them but Sinn Fein state quite clearly that they would fund services by way of wealth tax and making sure multi nationals pay their fair share. Current govt are siphoning money from road tax to fund Irish Water. Sinn Fein are an eady target but u still missed. Austerity over but homeless people increasing. Something not adding up.


SF giving out govt did not do enough to keep Web Summit by providing incentives; how do they think multinationals will stick around if we tax them more.
Why should multi nationals pay less than 12.5% yet indigenous companies get fleeced? Spineless govt. Of course multi nationals will flex and threaten but it's possibly a big bluff. Switching costs can be significant depending on sector.  Tesco threatened to pull out of the north when the larger companies were made to subsidise smaller local companies' rates.  They opened their biggest store a few months after.  You believe the spin but hopefully someone calls their bluff. A start would be to make them pay the actal rate..

And what rate of tax do you think Irish corporations pay?

Known fact that multi nationals don't pay the full 12.5. They get preferential treatment. To see how local SMEs are treated you need only look at this govt refusal to tackle upward only rents. Rates also went up during the recession.

Stopping upward only rents is a two edged sword as it stalls commercial real estate development, devalues commercial property,  leading to a lack of grade a commercial space for new business leading in turn to less jobs created and less outside investment. And then with less commercial real estate, rents go up anyway due to scarcity. Funny how the opposition fail to see that. Fine Gael actually learned that lesson the hard way.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 23, 2015, 04:16:34 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 20, 2015, 01:55:49 AM

Stopping upward only rents is a two edged sword as it stalls commercial real estate development, devalues commercial property,  leading to a lack of grade a commercial space for new business leading in turn to less jobs created and less outside investment. And then with less commercial real estate, rents go up anyway due to scarcity. Funny how the opposition fail to see that. Fine Gael actually learned that lesson the hard way.

Govt's decision was purely to keep NAMA's books look half way decent. The decision to include this clause in the first place show's the madness that went on. The decision to keep it shows that some people wanted the madness to continue. The "Grade A Commercial Space" bit was especially hilarious. Total spoof. You sound like a cross between Tom McParland and Karl Deeter.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 23, 2015, 04:23:58 PM
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/confusion-after-kenny-claim-that-army-was-on-standby-to-guard-atms-34133926.html

The gift that keeps on giving. I can just imagine his handlers shaking their heads in disbelief. 

My favourite bit was 'It looks like this weekend ... you'll have to put Army around the banks and around the ATM machines". Someone needs to tell him what the "M" in ATM stands for. To think this clown used to teach kids.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 04:38:55 PM
Is this the reason Ireland has an army? Keeping these lads trained to use at a moments notice for civil unrest to beat down the plebs?

Never seen the point in funding this. Should disband and use the money elsewhere.

Enda trying to act the big man again in europe. Typical.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on October 23, 2015, 06:16:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 04:38:55 PM
Is this the reason Ireland has an army? Keeping these lads trained to use at a moments notice for civil unrest to beat down the plebs?

Never seen the point in funding this. Should disband and use the money elsewhere.

Enda trying to act the big man again in europe. Typical.

Tbf, the Irish army are doing an excellent job in the Mediterranean. I wouldn't see it as a high priority area of spending but they're doing their bit over there and have saved a lot of lives
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 07:08:12 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 23, 2015, 06:16:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 04:38:55 PM
Is this the reason Ireland has an army? Keeping these lads trained to use at a moments notice for civil unrest to beat down the plebs?

Never seen the point in funding this. Should disband and use the money elsewhere.

Enda trying to act the big man again in europe. Typical.

Tbf, the Irish army are doing an excellent job in the Mediterranean. I wouldn't see it as a high priority area of spending but they're doing their bit over there and have saved a lot of lives

They have no reason to be there. Why not just send Bus Eireann over there if all you're doing is facilitating the illegal transporting of people into Europe. It would be safer and cheaper.

If they were keeping them out I might be more inclined to agree with you.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 07:59:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 07:08:12 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 23, 2015, 06:16:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 04:38:55 PM
Is this the reason Ireland has an army? Keeping these lads trained to use at a moments notice for civil unrest to beat down the plebs?

Never seen the point in funding this. Should disband and use the money elsewhere.

Enda trying to act the big man again in europe. Typical.

Tbf, the Irish army are doing an excellent job in the Mediterranean. I wouldn't see it as a high priority area of spending but they're doing their bit over there and have saved a lot of lives

They have no reason to be there. Why not just send Bus Eireann over there if all you're doing is facilitating the illegal transporting of people into Europe. It would be safer and cheaper.

If they were keeping them out I might be more inclined to agree with you.

The PIRA have even less reason to exist.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 08:01:33 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 07:59:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 07:08:12 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 23, 2015, 06:16:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 04:38:55 PM
Is this the reason Ireland has an army? Keeping these lads trained to use at a moments notice for civil unrest to beat down the plebs?

Never seen the point in funding this. Should disband and use the money elsewhere.

Enda trying to act the big man again in europe. Typical.

Tbf, the Irish army are doing an excellent job in the Mediterranean. I wouldn't see it as a high priority area of spending but they're doing their bit over there and have saved a lot of lives

They have no reason to be there. Why not just send Bus Eireann over there if all you're doing is facilitating the illegal transporting of people into Europe. It would be safer and cheaper.

If they were keeping them out I might be more inclined to agree with you.

The PIRA have even less reason to exist.

????
I didn't know Enda ran them as well. He's a sly hoor having multiple armies at his disposal.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 08:24:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 08:01:33 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 07:59:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 07:08:12 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 23, 2015, 06:16:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 04:38:55 PM
Is this the reason Ireland has an army? Keeping these lads trained to use at a moments notice for civil unrest to beat down the plebs?

Never seen the point in funding this. Should disband and use the money elsewhere.

Enda trying to act the big man again in europe. Typical.

Tbf, the Irish army are doing an excellent job in the Mediterranean. I wouldn't see it as a high priority area of spending but they're doing their bit over there and have saved a lot of lives

They have no reason to be there. Why not just send Bus Eireann over there if all you're doing is facilitating the illegal transporting of people into Europe. It would be safer and cheaper.

If they were keeping them out I might be more inclined to agree with you.

The PIRA have even less reason to exist.

????
I didn't know Enda ran them as well. He's a sly hoor having multiple armies at his disposal.

The PIRA is more of a criminal gang than an army in fairness.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 08:33:36 PM
Enda is already head of a criminal gang called Fine Gael.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 08:41:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 08:33:36 PM
Enda is already head of a criminal gang called Fine Gael.

At least he's not taking directions from the criminals.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 08:41:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 08:33:36 PM
Enda is already head of a criminal gang called Fine Gael.

At least he's not taking directions from the criminals.

You mean his party? Glassing fellas in pubs, assaulting protestors in the street and various  riduclous 'expenses' and salaries

Top 10 Cabinet salaries and expenses 2011-2015 (€)
Enda Kenny   Taoiseach   1,078,236.27
Simon Coveney   Agriculture   941,772.86
Michael Noonan   Finance   919,726.75
Leo Varadkar   Health   877,531.74
Jimmy Deenihan   Diaspora   864,664.67
Brendan Howlin   Public Expenditure   833,881.27
James Reilly   Children   813,250.31
Paul Kehoe   Chief Whip   785,869.69
Frances Fitzgerald   Justice   784,057.52
Alan Kelly   Environment   778,837.43


Who's the criminals again?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on October 23, 2015, 09:10:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 07:08:12 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 23, 2015, 06:16:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 04:38:55 PM
Is this the reason Ireland has an army? Keeping these lads trained to use at a moments notice for civil unrest to beat down the plebs?

Never seen the point in funding this. Should disband and use the money elsewhere.

Enda trying to act the big man again in europe. Typical.

Tbf, the Irish army are doing an excellent job in the Mediterranean. I wouldn't see it as a high priority area of spending but they're doing their bit over there and have saved a lot of lives

They have no reason to be there. Why not just send Bus Eireann over there if all you're doing is facilitating the illegal transporting of people into Europe. It would be safer and cheaper.

If they were keeping them out I might be more inclined to agree with you.

So there's no value in humanitarian work, good man
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on October 24, 2015, 02:07:48 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 23, 2015, 04:16:34 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 20, 2015, 01:55:49 AM

Stopping upward only rents is a two edged sword as it stalls commercial real estate development, devalues commercial property,  leading to a lack of grade a commercial space for new business leading in turn to less jobs created and less outside investment. And then with less commercial real estate, rents go up anyway due to scarcity. Funny how the opposition fail to see that. Fine Gael actually learned that lesson the hard way.

Govt's decision was purely to keep NAMA's books look half way decent. The decision to include this clause in the first place show's the madness that went on. The decision to keep it shows that some people wanted the madness to continue. The "Grade A Commercial Space" bit was especially hilarious. Total spoof. You sound like a cross between Tom McParland and Karl Deeter.

A little learning is a dangerous thing. Office space is generally classed into A, B and C. And you need grade A if you want to attract investment into Ireland as high tech firms need a bit more than a Sinn Fein job of a printer in the corner and stolen ink cartridges. Plus in case you had not noticed there's been a scarcity of commercial real estate in Dublin driving up rents in double digit rates. To combat that, high quality commercial real estate needs to be developed and good news is that is happening because that equals more businesses and more jobs.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 24, 2015, 09:09:17 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 08:41:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 08:33:36 PM
Enda is already head of a criminal gang called Fine Gael.

At least he's not taking directions from the criminals.

You mean his party? Glassing fellas in pubs, assaulting protestors in the street and various  riduclous 'expenses' and salaries

Top 10 Cabinet salaries and expenses 2011-2015 (€)
Enda Kenny   Taoiseach   1,078,236.27
Simon Coveney   Agriculture   941,772.86
Michael Noonan   Finance   919,726.75
Leo Varadkar   Health   877,531.74
Jimmy Deenihan   Diaspora   864,664.67
Brendan Howlin   Public Expenditure   833,881.27
James Reilly   Children   813,250.31
Paul Kehoe   Chief Whip   785,869.69
Frances Fitzgerald   Justice   784,057.52
Alan Kelly   Environment   778,837.43


Who's the criminals again?
In 2014/15, Martin McGuinness had a salary of 120k and expenses of 67k. That's 187k in one year, or 935k over 5 years. That's €1.3m.

And on The Mirror article you took your stats from, SF (and other non government) TDs are all sitting close to 600k in salaries and expenses and they're not actually in charge of anything.

Statistics mean nothing out of context.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on October 24, 2015, 11:23:22 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 24, 2015, 09:09:17 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 08:41:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 08:33:36 PM
Enda is already head of a criminal gang called Fine Gael.

At least he's not taking directions from the criminals.

You mean his party? Glassing fellas in pubs, assaulting protestors in the street and various  riduclous 'expenses' and salaries

Top 10 Cabinet salaries and expenses 2011-2015 (€)
Enda Kenny   Taoiseach   1,078,236.27
Simon Coveney   Agriculture   941,772.86
Michael Noonan   Finance   919,726.75
Leo Varadkar   Health   877,531.74
Jimmy Deenihan   Diaspora   864,664.67
Brendan Howlin   Public Expenditure   833,881.27
James Reilly   Children   813,250.31
Paul Kehoe   Chief Whip   785,869.69
Frances Fitzgerald   Justice   784,057.52
Alan Kelly   Environment   778,837.43


Who's the criminals again?
In 2014/15, Martin McGuinness had a salary of 120k and expenses of 67k. That's 187k in one year, or 935k over 5 years. That's €1.3m.

And on The Mirror article you took your stats from, SF (and other non government) TDs are all sitting close to 600k in salaries and expenses and they're not actually in charge of anything.

Statistics mean nothing out of context.

Is that 100% of statistics?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 24, 2015, 11:46:27 AM
Sinn Painers always give the impression their TDs and MLAs do it all for no pay. ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 24, 2015, 06:42:31 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 24, 2015, 02:07:48 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 23, 2015, 04:16:34 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 20, 2015, 01:55:49 AM

Stopping upward only rents is a two edged sword as it stalls commercial real estate development, devalues commercial property,  leading to a lack of grade a commercial space for new business leading in turn to less jobs created and less outside investment. And then with less commercial real estate, rents go up anyway due to scarcity. Funny how the opposition fail to see that. Fine Gael actually learned that lesson the hard way.

Govt's decision was purely to keep NAMA's books look half way decent. The decision to include this clause in the first place show's the madness that went on. The decision to keep it shows that some people wanted the madness to continue. The "Grade A Commercial Space" bit was especially hilarious. Total spoof. You sound like a cross between Tom McParland and Karl Deeter.

A little learning is a dangerous thing. Office space is generally classed into A, B and C. And you need grade A if you want to attract investment into Ireland as high tech firms need a bit more than a Sinn Fein job of a printer in the corner and stolen ink cartridges. Plus in case you had not noticed there's been a scarcity of commercial real estate in Dublin driving up rents in double digit rates. To combat that, high quality commercial real estate needs to be developed and good news is that is happening because that equals more businesses and more jobs.

So you're one of those Blueshirts that prefer the easy option of FDI as opposed to local SMEs. Upward only rent has crippled indigenous business. You need only look at the main street of every town and city outside of dublin. The govt were elected to represent concerns outside of Dublin. They put Multi Nationals ahead of local business.  If anything local businesses should be given preferential treatment but upward only rents and crazy rates are the order of the day while multi nationals don't even pay the going rate.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 24, 2015, 09:03:24 PM
POLL: SBP/Red C
(Mon-Wed, MoE ±3%)
FG 30 (+2 in 6 weeks)
Lab 7 (-3)
FF 20 (+2)
SF 16
Inds 20 (-4)
Greens 2
Renua 2
AAA-PBP 1
SD 1
Others 1
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on October 25, 2015, 01:27:06 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 24, 2015, 06:42:31 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 24, 2015, 02:07:48 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 23, 2015, 04:16:34 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 20, 2015, 01:55:49 AM

Stopping upward only rents is a two edged sword as it stalls commercial real estate development, devalues commercial property,  leading to a lack of grade a commercial space for new business leading in turn to less jobs created and less outside investment. And then with less commercial real estate, rents go up anyway due to scarcity. Funny how the opposition fail to see that. Fine Gael actually learned that lesson the hard way.

Govt's decision was purely to keep NAMA's books look half way decent. The decision to include this clause in the first place show's the madness that went on. The decision to keep it shows that some people wanted the madness to continue. The "Grade A Commercial Space" bit was especially hilarious. Total spoof. You sound like a cross between Tom McParland and Karl Deeter.

A little learning is a dangerous thing. Office space is generally classed into A, B and C. And you need grade A if you want to attract investment into Ireland as high tech firms need a bit more than a Sinn Fein job of a printer in the corner and stolen ink cartridges. Plus in case you had not noticed there's been a scarcity of commercial real estate in Dublin driving up rents in double digit rates. To combat that, high quality commercial real estate needs to be developed and good news is that is happening because that equals more businesses and more jobs.

So you're one of those Blueshirts that prefer the easy option of FDI as opposed to local SMEs. Upward only rent has crippled indigenous business. You need only look at the main street of every town and city outside of dublin. The govt were elected to represent concerns outside of Dublin. They put Multi Nationals ahead of local business.  If anything local businesses should be given preferential treatment but upward only rents and crazy rates are the order of the day while multi nationals don't even pay the going rate.

Not a Fine Gaeler. Indeed you are the one spouting the same populist shite that Fine Gael was spouting before they got elected saying they were going to abolish upward only rent reviews only to discover that it contravened the property rights protected by the constitution. Commercial property owners are businesses too and like any business seek the best return on their investment.

Also you are now mixing up commercial leasing rates with corporate tax rates. The former is a private agreement between landlord and tenant. The government has no place in deciding private leasing rates. It sounds like you want a Nanny State. Try North Korea, you might be a lot happier there.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 25, 2015, 04:27:15 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 24, 2015, 09:09:17 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 08:41:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 08:33:36 PM
Enda is already head of a criminal gang called Fine Gael.

At least he's not taking directions from the criminals.

You mean his party? Glassing fellas in pubs, assaulting protestors in the street and various  riduclous 'expenses' and salaries

Top 10 Cabinet salaries and expenses 2011-2015 (€)
Enda Kenny   Taoiseach   1,078,236.27
Simon Coveney   Agriculture   941,772.86
Michael Noonan   Finance   919,726.75
Leo Varadkar   Health   877,531.74
Jimmy Deenihan   Diaspora   864,664.67
Brendan Howlin   Public Expenditure   833,881.27
James Reilly   Children   813,250.31
Paul Kehoe   Chief Whip   785,869.69
Frances Fitzgerald   Justice   784,057.52
Alan Kelly   Environment   778,837.43


Who's the criminals again?
In 2014/15, Martin McGuinness had a salary of 120k and expenses of 67k. That's 187k in one year, or 935k over 5 years. That's €1.3m.

And on The Mirror article you took your stats from, SF (and other non government) TDs are all sitting close to 600k in salaries and expenses and they're not actually in charge of anything.

Statistics mean nothing out of context.

I take it this is your way of trying to weasel out of condemning the figures the irish government pay themselves. What's this got to do with Martin McGuinness??

Smoke and mirrors eh?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 25, 2015, 04:31:50 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 24, 2015, 09:03:24 PM
POLL: SBP/Red C
(Mon-Wed, MoE ±3%)
FG 30 (+2 in 6 weeks)
Lab 7 (-3)
FF 20 (+2)
SF 16
Inds 20 (-4)
Greens 2
Renua 2
AAA-PBP 1
SD 1
Others 1

So when FF and FG (and either lowry or labour with them) join together to create the next government perhaps then the illusion that there is or has been any real difference between them will be shattered.

Turkeys do seem to vote for xmas...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 25, 2015, 04:38:52 AM
And 7% of the population will vote labour now? You are having a laugh.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 25, 2015, 07:33:55 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 25, 2015, 04:27:15 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 24, 2015, 09:09:17 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 08:41:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 08:33:36 PM
Enda is already head of a criminal gang called Fine Gael.

At least he's not taking directions from the criminals.

You mean his party? Glassing fellas in pubs, assaulting protestors in the street and various  riduclous 'expenses' and salaries

Top 10 Cabinet salaries and expenses 2011-2015 (€)
Enda Kenny   Taoiseach   1,078,236.27
Simon Coveney   Agriculture   941,772.86
Michael Noonan   Finance   919,726.75
Leo Varadkar   Health   877,531.74
Jimmy Deenihan   Diaspora   864,664.67
Brendan Howlin   Public Expenditure   833,881.27
James Reilly   Children   813,250.31
Paul Kehoe   Chief Whip   785,869.69
Frances Fitzgerald   Justice   784,057.52
Alan Kelly   Environment   778,837.43


Who's the criminals again?
In 2014/15, Martin McGuinness had a salary of 120k and expenses of 67k. That's 187k in one year, or 935k over 5 years. That's €1.3m.

And on The Mirror article you took your stats from, SF (and other non government) TDs are all sitting close to 600k in salaries and expenses and they're not actually in charge of anything.

Statistics mean nothing out of context.

I take it this is your way of trying to weasel out of condemning the figures the irish government pay themselves. What's this got to do with Martin McGuinness??

Smoke and mirrors eh?
My point is simply that it costs money to govern. You have to pay people. You can't expect people to work for nothing and meet legitimate expenses from their own pockets.

And it wasn't a criticism of McGuinness at all, its simply pointing out that an alternative government from any party will cost similar money.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 25, 2015, 11:05:24 AM
Quote from: weareros on October 25, 2015, 01:27:06 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 24, 2015, 06:42:31 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 24, 2015, 02:07:48 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on October 23, 2015, 04:16:34 PM
Quote from: weareros on October 20, 2015, 01:55:49 AM

Stopping upward only rents is a two edged sword as it stalls commercial real estate development, devalues commercial property,  leading to a lack of grade a commercial space for new business leading in turn to less jobs created and less outside investment. And then with less commercial real estate, rents go up anyway due to scarcity. Funny how the opposition fail to see that. Fine Gael actually learned that lesson the hard way.

Govt's decision was purely to keep NAMA's books look half way decent. The decision to include this clause in the first place show's the madness that went on. The decision to keep it shows that some people wanted the madness to continue. The "Grade A Commercial Space" bit was especially hilarious. Total spoof. You sound like a cross between Tom McParland and Karl Deeter.

A little learning is a dangerous thing. Office space is generally classed into A, B and C. And you need grade A if you want to attract investment into Ireland as high tech firms need a bit more than a Sinn Fein job of a printer in the corner and stolen ink cartridges. Plus in case you had not noticed there's been a scarcity of commercial real estate in Dublin driving up rents in double digit rates. To combat that, high quality commercial real estate needs to be developed and good news is that is happening because that equals more businesses and more jobs.

So you're one of those Blueshirts that prefer the easy option of FDI as opposed to local SMEs. Upward only rent has crippled indigenous business. You need only look at the main street of every town and city outside of dublin. The govt were elected to represent concerns outside of Dublin. They put Multi Nationals ahead of local business.  If anything local businesses should be given preferential treatment but upward only rents and crazy rates are the order of the day while multi nationals don't even pay the going rate.

Not a Fine Gaeler. Indeed you are the one spouting the same populist shite that Fine Gael was spouting before they got elected saying they were going to abolish upward only rent reviews only to discover that it contravened the property rights protected by the constitution. Commercial property owners are businesses too and like any business seek the best return on their investment.

Also you are now mixing up commercial leasing rates with corporate tax rates. The former is a private agreement between landlord and tenant. The government has no place in deciding private leasing rates. It sounds like you want a Nanny State. Try North Korea, you might be a lot happier there.
I'm all for contracts and legislation to be adhered to but if markets dictate when times are good why should they not dictate when things are bad. Yes business were foolish to sign these contracts but they had no choice if they wanted to remain tennants. You have a short memory if you don't remember tax payers bailing out these banks and landlords. I don't remember siging that contract.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 25, 2015, 05:53:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 25, 2015, 07:33:55 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 25, 2015, 04:27:15 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 24, 2015, 09:09:17 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 08:41:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 08:33:36 PM
Enda is already head of a criminal gang called Fine Gael.

At least he's not taking directions from the criminals.

You mean his party? Glassing fellas in pubs, assaulting protestors in the street and various  riduclous 'expenses' and salaries

Top 10 Cabinet salaries and expenses 2011-2015 (€)
Enda Kenny   Taoiseach   1,078,236.27
Simon Coveney   Agriculture   941,772.86
Michael Noonan   Finance   919,726.75
Leo Varadkar   Health   877,531.74
Jimmy Deenihan   Diaspora   864,664.67
Brendan Howlin   Public Expenditure   833,881.27
James Reilly   Children   813,250.31
Paul Kehoe   Chief Whip   785,869.69
Frances Fitzgerald   Justice   784,057.52
Alan Kelly   Environment   778,837.43


Who's the criminals again?
In 2014/15, Martin McGuinness had a salary of 120k and expenses of 67k. That's 187k in one year, or 935k over 5 years. That's €1.3m.

And on The Mirror article you took your stats from, SF (and other non government) TDs are all sitting close to 600k in salaries and expenses and they're not actually in charge of anything.

Statistics mean nothing out of context.

I take it this is your way of trying to weasel out of condemning the figures the irish government pay themselves. What's this got to do with Martin McGuinness??

Smoke and mirrors eh?
My point is simply that it costs money to govern. You have to pay people. You can't expect people to work for nothing and meet legitimate expenses from their own pockets.

And it wasn't a criticism of McGuinness at all, its simply pointing out that an alternative government from any party will cost similar money.

So your hatred of sinn fein isn't the reason you brought up Martin McGuinness into a conversation that was about 26 county politics, Fine Gael and how much they are paid??!??!?

My point was merely that in these times of "austerity" some (i.e. fine gael TD's and ministers) don't seem to have tightened their belts too much like the ordinary joe taxpayer. If anything their compensation went upwards. That to me is criminal.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 25, 2015, 06:29:48 PM
Fine Gael leaders may be all be bollockses without exception. However, their salaries were reduced by much more than most, and it is counterfactual to claim otherwise. There is enough to criticise them for without making it up.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 25, 2015, 07:35:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 25, 2015, 05:53:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 25, 2015, 07:33:55 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 25, 2015, 04:27:15 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 24, 2015, 09:09:17 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 23, 2015, 08:41:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 23, 2015, 08:33:36 PM
Enda is already head of a criminal gang called Fine Gael.

At least he's not taking directions from the criminals.

You mean his party? Glassing fellas in pubs, assaulting protestors in the street and various  riduclous 'expenses' and salaries

Top 10 Cabinet salaries and expenses 2011-2015 (€)
Enda Kenny   Taoiseach   1,078,236.27
Simon Coveney   Agriculture   941,772.86
Michael Noonan   Finance   919,726.75
Leo Varadkar   Health   877,531.74
Jimmy Deenihan   Diaspora   864,664.67
Brendan Howlin   Public Expenditure   833,881.27
James Reilly   Children   813,250.31
Paul Kehoe   Chief Whip   785,869.69
Frances Fitzgerald   Justice   784,057.52
Alan Kelly   Environment   778,837.43


Who's the criminals again?
In 2014/15, Martin McGuinness had a salary of 120k and expenses of 67k. That's 187k in one year, or 935k over 5 years. That's €1.3m.

And on The Mirror article you took your stats from, SF (and other non government) TDs are all sitting close to 600k in salaries and expenses and they're not actually in charge of anything.

Statistics mean nothing out of context.

I take it this is your way of trying to weasel out of condemning the figures the irish government pay themselves. What's this got to do with Martin McGuinness??

Smoke and mirrors eh?
My point is simply that it costs money to govern. You have to pay people. You can't expect people to work for nothing and meet legitimate expenses from their own pockets.

And it wasn't a criticism of McGuinness at all, its simply pointing out that an alternative government from any party will cost similar money.

So your hatred of sinn fein isn't the reason you brought up Martin McGuinness into a conversation that was about 26 county politics, Fine Gael and how much they are paid??!??!?

My point was merely that in these times of "austerity" some (i.e. fine gael TD's and ministers) don't seem to have tightened their belts too much like the ordinary joe taxpayer. If anything their compensation went upwards. That to me is criminal.
Their pay went DOWN. The Taoiseach's salary is €185,350, cut from €214,187 (Bertie was on close to 300k in 06/07 if i'm not mistaken). All Ministers and TDs have also had salaries cut during the term of this government:
http://www.thejournal.ie/taoiseach-ministers-public-servants-pay-cuts-976714-Jul2013/

And I mentioned McGuinness because that's an indication of what SF would cost if they were in government in the south, i.e. the same as the other parties.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 26, 2015, 02:31:41 AM
Pay cut?? They really really put themselves on the breadine in solidarity.
They'll be making up for it in expenses claims. Don't fret.

Nice to see the minister for emigration Jimmy Deenihan makes a nice living out of other peoples misery.
As for the social worker in charge of justice. Overpaid to spout a few buzzwords into a camera. Real value for money there.

and paying 4 grand a week for enda. let that sink in. then try justify it.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 26, 2015, 06:38:56 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 26, 2015, 02:31:41 AM
Pay cut?? They really really put themselves on the breadine in solidarity.
They'll be making up for it in expenses claims. Don't fret.

Nice to see the minister for emigration Jimmy Deenihan makes a nice living out of other peoples misery.
As for the social worker in charge of justice. Overpaid to spout a few buzzwords into a camera. Real value for money there.

and paying 4 grand a week for enda. let that sink in. then try justify it.
A social worker in charge of Justice... do you want to list the professional credentials of your alternative front bench?

And Enda gets just over €3,500 a week as Taoiseach. If you convert the currency, McGuinness is paid €3,200 a week as one of two First Ministers of an administration (not even a full government) for a much smaller jurisdiction. (Not to mention that the Taoiseach's salary will be subject to higher taxes in the south than the dFM's in the north.) Which would you rather justify first?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: From the Bunker on October 26, 2015, 02:29:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 26, 2015, 06:38:56 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 26, 2015, 02:31:41 AM
Pay cut?? They really really put themselves on the breadine in solidarity.
They'll be making up for it in expenses claims. Don't fret.

Nice to see the minister for emigration Jimmy Deenihan makes a nice living out of other peoples misery.
As for the social worker in charge of justice. Overpaid to spout a few buzzwords into a camera. Real value for money there.

and paying 4 grand a week for enda. let that sink in. then try justify it.
A social worker in charge of Justice... do you want to list the professional credentials of your alternative front bench?

And Enda gets just over €3,500 a week as Taoiseach. If you convert the currency, McGuinness is paid €3,200 a week as one of two First Ministers of an administration (not even a full government) for a much smaller jurisdiction. (Not to mention that the Taoiseach's salary will be subject to higher taxes in the south than the dFM's in the north.) Which would you rather justify first?

All the CEO's of the semi-state companies named below now earn €250k a year. A ceiling was put on their wages not so long ago before that they earned the following

CEO PAY AT THE SEMI-STATES

1. ESB (electricity supply) €752,568
2. Dublin Airport Authority €568,100
3. An Post €500,000
4. Coillte (forestry) €417,000
5. Eirgrid (electricity transmission) €407,000
6. Bord Gáis (gas) €394,000
7. Bord na Móna (bogs) €392,000
8. RTE (national broadcaster) €326,000
9. Irish Aviation Authority €324,000
10. Dublin Port €317,000

Can you name any of these CEO's? Do you know what they look like? Are they democratically elected? Would they have a greater workload than the Taoiseach?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 26, 2015, 02:53:12 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 26, 2015, 06:38:56 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 26, 2015, 02:31:41 AM
Pay cut?? They really really put themselves on the breadine in solidarity.
They'll be making up for it in expenses claims. Don't fret.

Nice to see the minister for emigration Jimmy Deenihan makes a nice living out of other peoples misery.
As for the social worker in charge of justice. Overpaid to spout a few buzzwords into a camera. Real value for money there.

and paying 4 grand a week for enda. let that sink in. then try justify it.
A social worker in charge of Justice... do you want to list the professional credentials of your alternative front bench?

And Enda gets just over €3,500 a week as Taoiseach. If you convert the currency, McGuinness is paid €3,200 a week as one of two First Ministers of an administration (not even a full government) for a much smaller jurisdiction. (Not to mention that the Taoiseach's salary will be subject to higher taxes in the south than the dFM's in the north.) Which would you rather justify first?

Maguire - The only way you try to justify Enda's wages is by trying to attack Sinn Fein (who aren't the government in the 26 counties).

How typical of you :D

Vladamir Putin gets 125k a year. Certainly doesn't do more work than Enda mind you. It takes a special someone to pull in  3.5k a week to get stuck in a lift or go on another pointless photoshoot.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 26, 2015, 05:23:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 26, 2015, 02:53:12 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 26, 2015, 06:38:56 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 26, 2015, 02:31:41 AM
Pay cut?? They really really put themselves on the breadine in solidarity.
They'll be making up for it in expenses claims. Don't fret.

Nice to see the minister for emigration Jimmy Deenihan makes a nice living out of other peoples misery.
As for the social worker in charge of justice. Overpaid to spout a few buzzwords into a camera. Real value for money there.

and paying 4 grand a week for enda. let that sink in. then try justify it.
A social worker in charge of Justice... do you want to list the professional credentials of your alternative front bench?

And Enda gets just over €3,500 a week as Taoiseach. If you convert the currency, McGuinness is paid €3,200 a week as one of two First Ministers of an administration (not even a full government) for a much smaller jurisdiction. (Not to mention that the Taoiseach's salary will be subject to higher taxes in the south than the dFM's in the north.) Which would you rather justify first?

Maguire - The only way you try to justify Enda's wages is by trying to attack Sinn Fein (who aren't the government in the 26 counties).

How typical of you :D

Vladamir Putin gets 125k a year. Certainly doesn't do more work than Enda mind you. It takes a special someone to pull in  3.5k a week to get stuck in a lift or go on another pointless photoshoot.
You're missing my point. I'm NOT attacking SF. I have no issue with McGuinness being paid that salary. I think it's reasonable that someone gets paid a wage that reflects the hours they put in, the responsibility they have, the scrutiny they're under, not to mention the mandate they have (democracy, eh?) - that's my view regardless of what party they're in.

And a comparison with SF is surely relevant if they're the alternative to the current government?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 26, 2015, 05:44:28 PM
You'd think no Ministers ever got paid before the current lot going by the eejity quotes Maguire is replying to.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 26, 2015, 06:12:50 PM
Ministers should be paid, but should perform high quality work. The issue is the latter, not the former.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 26, 2015, 06:55:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 26, 2015, 06:12:50 PM
Ministers should be paid, but should perform high quality work. The issue is the latter, not the former.
Well they do get a fairly public appraisal every 4-5 years.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 26, 2015, 07:28:07 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 26, 2015, 06:55:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 26, 2015, 06:12:50 PM
Ministers should be paid, but should perform high quality work. The issue is the latter, not the former.
Well they do get a fairly public appraisal every 4-5 years.

The team does, not the individuals.
But the appraisal is based on suspect principles, with much talk of trivialities and ignoring of important issues.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 26, 2015, 07:30:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 26, 2015, 06:55:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 26, 2015, 06:12:50 PM
Ministers should be paid, but should perform high quality work. The issue is the latter, not the former.
Well they do get a fairly public appraisal every 4-5 years.

Yes - please please please appoint Frances Fitzgerald as minister for justice...she's great, doesn't talk in buzzwords and knows what she's doing. Those social worker skills really will come in handy.

While you're at it please appoint Heather Humpreys to the position of minister for the gaeltacht even though she can't actually speak irish.

James Reilly health minister who has conflicts of interest due to his own private nursing homes...

etc...

Good job! They don't get paid half enough.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 26, 2015, 08:15:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 26, 2015, 07:30:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 26, 2015, 06:55:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 26, 2015, 06:12:50 PM
Ministers should be paid, but should perform high quality work. The issue is the latter, not the former.
Well they do get a fairly public appraisal every 4-5 years.

Yes - please please please appoint Frances Fitzgerald as minister for justice...she's great, doesn't talk in buzzwords and knows what she's doing. Those social worker skills really will come in handy.

While you're at it please appoint Heather Humpreys to the position of minister for the gaeltacht even though she can't actually speak irish.

James Reilly health minister who has conflicts of interest due to his own private nursing homes...

etc...

Good job! They don't get paid half enough.
Who would your alternative ministers be for those 3 jobs?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 26, 2015, 08:36:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 26, 2015, 08:15:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 26, 2015, 07:30:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 26, 2015, 06:55:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 26, 2015, 06:12:50 PM
Ministers should be paid, but should perform high quality work. The issue is the latter, not the former.
Well they do get a fairly public appraisal every 4-5 years.

Yes - please please please appoint Frances Fitzgerald as minister for justice...she's great, doesn't talk in buzzwords and knows what she's doing. Those social worker skills really will come in handy.

While you're at it please appoint Heather Humpreys to the position of minister for the gaeltacht even though she can't actually speak irish.

James Reilly health minister who has conflicts of interest due to his own private nursing homes...

etc...

Good job! They don't get paid half enough.
Who would your alternative ministers be for those 3 jobs?

I'll let you know when they pay me 200k a year. I want an Enda Kenny wig as well...

https://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2013/10/13/the-contract-for-a-better-ireland-fine-gael-2007-leaflet/

I'll practice my lack of charisma and oozing of smarm behaviour.

My contract....
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 26, 2015, 09:29:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 26, 2015, 08:36:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 26, 2015, 08:15:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 26, 2015, 07:30:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 26, 2015, 06:55:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 26, 2015, 06:12:50 PM
Ministers should be paid, but should perform high quality work. The issue is the latter, not the former.
Well they do get a fairly public appraisal every 4-5 years.

Yes - please please please appoint Frances Fitzgerald as minister for justice...she's great, doesn't talk in buzzwords and knows what she's doing. Those social worker skills really will come in handy.

While you're at it please appoint Heather Humpreys to the position of minister for the gaeltacht even though she can't actually speak irish.

James Reilly health minister who has conflicts of interest due to his own private nursing homes...

etc...

Good job! They don't get paid half enough.
Who would your alternative ministers be for those 3 jobs?

I'll let you know when they pay me 200k a year. I want an Enda Kenny wig as well...

https://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2013/10/13/the-contract-for-a-better-ireland-fine-gael-2007-leaflet/

I'll practice my lack of charisma and oozing of smarm behaviour.

My contract....
Just as I thought. The current crop aren't up to much, but you can't name any better alternatives. Yet presumably if we reduce all Ministers' pay to a pittance, individuals with vast experience and professional qualifications will be lining up to take over...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 26, 2015, 11:28:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 26, 2015, 08:36:34 PM
I'll let you know when they pay me 200k a year. I want an Enda Kenny wig as well...

presumably if you get to run a country or any organisation of any size they will pay you 200k a year.
Given your powers of analysis, I wouldn't get my expectations up if I was you.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Canalman on October 27, 2015, 10:47:48 AM
Getting someone to get into coalition post election with FG is its major problem atm. No natural "allies" out there with the numbers needed.

Convinced we will be at the polls twice in 2016/ early 2017.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 27, 2015, 11:39:37 AM
Quote from: Canalman on October 27, 2015, 10:47:48 AM
Getting someone to get into coalition post election with FG is its major problem atm. No natural "allies" out there with the numbers needed.

Convinced we will be at the polls twice in 2016/ early 2017.

Looks like that currently. No doubt the FG message will be "return us for stability".
Are we now looking at
FG 50
Lab 10
FF30-35
SF25
UncleTomCobbleys 38-43.

I heard something on the news that SF/ArmyCouncil are going to consider a voting pact with the loonylefties.
Obviously SF recognise that the "nice" potential support is vanishing and hope that they will make up for it by getting transfers from the Luddite/Nihilist camps.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 27, 2015, 01:40:14 PM
Quote from: Canalman on October 27, 2015, 10:47:48 AM
Getting someone to get into coalition post election with FG is its major problem atm. No natural "allies" out there with the numbers needed.

Convinced we will be at the polls twice in 2016/ early 2017.

FF/FG coalition - they're practically the same.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 27, 2015, 01:42:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2015, 11:39:37 AM
Quote from: Canalman on October 27, 2015, 10:47:48 AM
Getting someone to get into coalition post election with FG is its major problem atm. No natural "allies" out there with the numbers needed.

Convinced we will be at the polls twice in 2016/ early 2017.

Looks like that currently. No doubt the FG message will be "return us for stability".
Are we now looking at
FG 50
Lab 10
FF30-35
SF25
UncleTomCobbleys 38-43.

I heard something on the news that SF/ArmyCouncil are going to consider a voting pact with the loonylefties.
Obviously SF recognise that the "nice" potential support is vanishing and hope that they will make up for it by getting transfers from the Luddite/Nihilist camps.

What a condescending little post.
You are considering yourself "nice" I take it? I'd go with "a-hole" instead.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 27, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
I think "nice" is not the word here, it is shorthand for the set of people who realise that things have to be paid for and that everyone has to aim to pay a bit. SF have given up on responsible government.

Sadly a very unstable position may be in prospect, although some of the independents/Renua might agree to support a minority FG operation on the budget at least.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 27, 2015, 08:01:57 PM
I'd imagine they'd want their half kilo of flesh in return.
The Fitzmaurice/Ross In do alliance would likely vote for Kenny as Taoiseach to enable some stability.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 27, 2015, 08:16:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
I think "nice" is not the word here, it is shorthand for the set of people who realise that things have to be paid for and that everyone has to aim to pay a bit. SF have given up on responsible government.

Sadly a very unstable position may be in prospect, although some of the independents/Renua might agree to support a minority FG operation on the budget at least.

That's a sweeping generalisation.
You are equating "nice" with anyone who doesn't agree with FG's policies or how they've run the country since they got into power.

You reckon those who won't vote FG are spongers with their hand out?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 27, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
I think "nice" is not the word here, it is shorthand for the set of people who realise that things have to be paid for and that everyone has to aim to pay a bit. SF have given up on responsible government.

Sadly a very unstable position may be in prospect, although some of the independents/Renua might agree to support a minority FG operation on the budget at least.
To be honest, they'd probably be more responsible if they were in government. Look at what happened Syriza, eventually. The problem is that some people actually believe the opposition parties would deliver on all their promises if they were in government. The reality is very different.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 27, 2015, 09:43:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 27, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
The problem is that some people actually believe the opposition parties would deliver on all their promises if they were in government. The reality is very different.

Just like Fine Gael promised when Fianna Fail were in power......
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 27, 2015, 09:56:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 27, 2015, 08:16:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
I think "nice" is not the word here, it is shorthand for the set of people who realise that things have to be paid for and that everyone has to aim to pay a bit. SF have given up on responsible government.

Sadly a very unstable position may be in prospect, although some of the independents/Renua might agree to support a minority FG operation on the budget at least.

That's a sweeping generalisation.
You are equating "nice" with anyone who doesn't agree with FG's policies or how they've run the country since they got into power.

I'm disagreeing with the word "nice", perhaps responsible would be better.


QuoteYou reckon those who won't vote FG are spongers with their hand out?

A lot of them are codding themselves that money grows on trees.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 28, 2015, 07:11:15 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 27, 2015, 09:43:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 27, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
The problem is that some people actually believe the opposition parties would deliver on all their promises if they were in government. The reality is very different.

Just like Fine Gael promised when Fianna Fail were in power......
Yes.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 29, 2015, 01:51:52 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 28, 2015, 07:11:15 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 27, 2015, 09:43:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 27, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
The problem is that some people actually believe the opposition parties would deliver on all their promises if they were in government. The reality is very different.

Just like Fine Gael promised when Fianna Fail were in power......
Yes.

Are you saying that Fine Gael are liars?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 29, 2015, 06:44:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 29, 2015, 01:51:52 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 28, 2015, 07:11:15 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 27, 2015, 09:43:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 27, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
The problem is that some people actually believe the opposition parties would deliver on all their promises if they were in government. The reality is very different.

Just like Fine Gael promised when Fianna Fail were in power......
Yes.

Are you saying that Fine Gael are liars?
Call it lying, call it playing the political "game", call it what you want, all parties do it. I don't know of any party that has delivered all it promised after getting into office.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 29, 2015, 07:08:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 29, 2015, 06:44:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 29, 2015, 01:51:52 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 28, 2015, 07:11:15 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 27, 2015, 09:43:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 27, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
The problem is that some people actually believe the opposition parties would deliver on all their promises if they were in government. The reality is very different.

Just like Fine Gael promised when Fianna Fail were in power......
Yes.

Are you saying that Fine Gael are liars?
Call it lying, call it playing the political "game", call it what you want, all parties do it. I don't know of any party that has delivered all it promised after getting into office.

Quite. Show me one politician who isn't economical with the truth. Some though spin complete bollix knowing right well that they cannot do it and that they shouldn't do it even if they could.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 29, 2015, 07:52:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 29, 2015, 07:08:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 29, 2015, 06:44:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 29, 2015, 01:51:52 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 28, 2015, 07:11:15 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 27, 2015, 09:43:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 27, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
The problem is that some people actually believe the opposition parties would deliver on all their promises if they were in government. The reality is very different.

Just like Fine Gael promised when Fianna Fail were in power......
Yes.

Are you saying that Fine Gael are liars?
Call it lying, call it playing the political "game", call it what you want, all parties do it. I don't know of any party that has delivered all it promised after getting into office.

Quite. Show me one politician who isn't economical with the truth. Some though spin complete bollix knowing right well that they cannot do it and that they shouldn't do it even if they could.

Shouldn't every politican/candidate formally submit their manifesto before every election. That way they can can be judged on what they said they would achieve during their time in office before they stand again.

At least it would keep them honest.

I'm sure they'd all vote for that :)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 29, 2015, 07:55:56 PM
Frankie Feighan can promise he'll keep his elbows to himself for the next 5 years.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 29, 2015, 08:53:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 29, 2015, 07:52:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 29, 2015, 07:08:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 29, 2015, 06:44:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 29, 2015, 01:51:52 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 28, 2015, 07:11:15 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 27, 2015, 09:43:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 27, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
The problem is that some people actually believe the opposition parties would deliver on all their promises if they were in government. The reality is very different.

Just like Fine Gael promised when Fianna Fail were in power......
Yes.

Are you saying that Fine Gael are liars?
Call it lying, call it playing the political "game", call it what you want, all parties do it. I don't know of any party that has delivered all it promised after getting into office.

Quite. Show me one politician who isn't economical with the truth. Some though spin complete bollix knowing right well that they cannot do it and that they shouldn't do it even if they could.

Shouldn't every politican/candidate formally submit their manifesto before every election. That way they can can be judged on what they said they would achieve during their time in office before they stand again.

At least it would keep them honest.

I'm sure they'd all vote for that :)
Every politician signs up to their party's manifesto.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: vallankumous on October 29, 2015, 09:05:52 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 27, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
The problem is that some people actually believe the opposition parties would deliver on all their promises if they were in government. The reality is very different.

Nobody believes that.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 29, 2015, 09:59:43 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on October 29, 2015, 09:05:52 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 27, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
The problem is that some people actually believe the opposition parties would deliver on all their promises if they were in government. The reality is very different.

Nobody believes that.
Clearly some do.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 29, 2015, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 29, 2015, 09:59:43 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on October 29, 2015, 09:05:52 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 27, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
The problem is that some people actually believe the opposition parties would deliver on all their promises if they were in government. The reality is very different.

Nobody believes that.
Clearly some do.

Some always will. The old "you can fool some of the people........" 
Also you have the poor eejits who believe it will be different with this crowd.....
I'll be voting 1 John Kelly a good social democrat and a dacent man - but hhasn't a hope.
2 - Ml Fitzmaurice a dacent sensible man
3 - Maura Hopkins, a nice woman and a good Ros supporter.
Rest can eff off.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trileacman on October 29, 2015, 11:05:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 29, 2015, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 29, 2015, 09:59:43 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on October 29, 2015, 09:05:52 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 27, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
The problem is that some people actually believe the opposition parties would deliver on all their promises if they were in government. The reality is very different.

Nobody believes that.
Clearly some do.

Some always will. The old "you can fool some of the people........" 
Also you have the poor eejits who believe it will be different with this crowd.....
I'll be voting 1 John Kelly a good social democrat and a dacent man - but hhasn't a hope.
2 - Ml Fitzmaurice a dacent sensible man
3 - Maura Hopkins, a nice woman and a good Ros supporter.
Rest can eff off.

Not being a dick but then why vote? Surely your just putting part of your day to loss?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 29, 2015, 11:40:26 PM
PR Trileac.
My no 1 gets eliminated I'm still helping MF get in.
If he's in already I give Maura a vote.
If she then fails I don't give a damn about the rest.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 29, 2015, 11:43:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 29, 2015, 11:40:26 PM
PR Trileac.
My no 1 gets eliminated I'm still helping MF get in.
If he's in already I give Maura a vote.
If she then fails I don't give a damn about the rest.

This isn't logical, some of the rest may be more dangerous than others, despite all being bollixes.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 30, 2015, 12:01:16 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 29, 2015, 11:43:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 29, 2015, 11:40:26 PM
PR Trileac.
My no 1 gets eliminated I'm still helping MF get in.
If he's in already I give Maura a vote.
If she then fails I don't give a damn about the rest.

This isn't logical, some of the rest may be more dangerous than others, despite all being bollixes.
It's my vote - I'll do as I want and won't distinguish any of the bolxs with a preference.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on October 30, 2015, 11:46:37 AM
"Edna, how's the treatment for the comulsive lying going?"

Edna : "Magnifishintly"
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on October 30, 2015, 12:16:58 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 29, 2015, 11:05:24 PM
Not being a dick but then why vote? Surely your just putting part of your day to loss?

Speaking for myself, civic duty. I don't consider voting to be a chore.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on October 30, 2015, 01:17:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 29, 2015, 08:53:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 29, 2015, 07:52:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 29, 2015, 07:08:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 29, 2015, 06:44:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 29, 2015, 01:51:52 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 28, 2015, 07:11:15 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 27, 2015, 09:43:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 27, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
The problem is that some people actually believe the opposition parties would deliver on all their promises if they were in government. The reality is very different.

Just like Fine Gael promised when Fianna Fail were in power......
Yes.

Are you saying that Fine Gael are liars?
Call it lying, call it playing the political "game", call it what you want, all parties do it. I don't know of any party that has delivered all it promised after getting into office.

Quite. Show me one politician who isn't economical with the truth. Some though spin complete bollix knowing right well that they cannot do it and that they shouldn't do it even if they could.

Shouldn't every politican/candidate formally submit their manifesto before every election. That way they can can be judged on what they said they would achieve during their time in office before they stand again.

At least it would keep them honest.

I'm sure they'd all vote for that :)
Every politician signs up to their party's manifesto.

The problem is the party manifestos are unrealistic. Individual manifestos should also be submitted for what they plan to do for their constituencies. At least that way you can see they plan to work hard, not just ride their parties coat tails.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 30, 2015, 06:30:02 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 30, 2015, 01:17:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 29, 2015, 08:53:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 29, 2015, 07:52:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 29, 2015, 07:08:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 29, 2015, 06:44:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 29, 2015, 01:51:52 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 28, 2015, 07:11:15 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on October 27, 2015, 09:43:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 27, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
The problem is that some people actually believe the opposition parties would deliver on all their promises if they were in government. The reality is very different.

Just like Fine Gael promised when Fianna Fail were in power......
Yes.

Are you saying that Fine Gael are liars?
Call it lying, call it playing the political "game", call it what you want, all parties do it. I don't know of any party that has delivered all it promised after getting into office.

Quite. Show me one politician who isn't economical with the truth. Some though spin complete bollix knowing right well that they cannot do it and that they shouldn't do it even if they could.

Shouldn't every politican/candidate formally submit their manifesto before every election. That way they can can be judged on what they said they would achieve during their time in office before they stand again.

At least it would keep them honest.

I'm sure they'd all vote for that :)
Every politician signs up to their party's manifesto.

The problem is the party manifestos are unrealistic. Individual manifestos should also be submitted for what they plan to do for their constituencies. At least that way you can see they plan to work hard, not just ride their parties coat tails.
So basically you want parish pump politicians. TDs are legislators. Get on to your local councillors to deal with your local issues.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 08:14:51 PM
Sinn Fein have my vote. In the absence of a party that is committed to taking us out of Europe they will have to do. Hopefully there will be Brexit which will force us to see reason. Of course the establishment don't like the peasants getting uppity as evidenced by Liz O'Donnells derisory reaction to Sinn Feins election victories last year. ::)

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/liz-odonnell/election-of-three-sinn-fein-meps-shows-how-unimportant-european-parliament-is-to-us-30318452.html  (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/liz-odonnell/election-of-three-sinn-fein-meps-shows-how-unimportant-european-parliament-is-to-us-30318452.html)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 30, 2015, 11:44:21 PM
Let's all join North Korea . ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 11:57:14 PM
I don't understand that attitude. Seeking an alternative to US hegemony does not imply seeking the opposite extreme. Russia is , essentially, a capitalist country. It has a reasonable, pragmatic approach to human rights. It is not North Korea.

More people are being exposed to the truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6J-Qg9kN3M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6J-Qg9kN3M)


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 12:03:20 AM
14:25 minutes in is especially applicable to Europe.

Slaves to debt that you are...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 12:30:09 AM
Europe needs to be careful which side they pick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se3j3bl04zM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se3j3bl04zM)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 12:36:38 AM
are you on this side ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piASFyd7jT4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piASFyd7jT4)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on October 31, 2015, 01:06:08 AM
Quote from: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 11:57:14 PM
I don't understand that attitude. Seeking an alternative to US hegemony does not imply seeking the opposite extreme. Russia is , essentially, a capitalist country. It has a reasonable, pragmatic approach to human rights. It is not North Korea.



Pussy Riot.
Would that happen in Western Europe?
Come to think of it, Ireland was an intolerant theocratic state before we joined the EEC.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 01:41:51 AM
Quote from: weareros on October 31, 2015, 01:06:08 AM
Quote from: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 11:57:14 PM
I don't understand that attitude. Seeking an alternative to US hegemony does not imply seeking the opposite extreme. Russia is , essentially, a capitalist country. It has a reasonable, pragmatic approach to human rights. It is not North Korea.



Pussy Riot.
Would that happen in Western Europe?
Come to think of it, Ireland was an intolerant theocratic state before we joined the EEC.

Pussy riot..are you serious ? they desecrated a church that is sacred to many orthodox Christians. Fair enough, make your point but why pick on something that is sacred to many older Russians who have endured great hardship and persecution to maintain their faith. This is the problem with western idealists. They are so effing stupid. They have no idea what plays well to a Russian audience. Pussy riot are absolutely despised by the majority of Russians.

And what ordinary Russians think about their church is not too far distant to what many Irish people feel about their church. Lads like you are too quick to assume. The Catholic church in Ireland are guilty of some pretty heinous actions but they are still the "catholic church of Ireland" . They are an essential part of our identity. These days everybody is telling us we must "adapt" and go with some eurocrats vision for our country. People will naturally resist this and return to those things that make us unique and separate us from the global mass of unthinking slaves to facebook or google or whatever corporation that throws a few shekels our way.

and to hell with the EEC. What did it ever do except control the global food supply and create butter mountains  ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on October 31, 2015, 09:18:15 AM
Quote from: Kursk on October 30, 2015, 11:57:14 PM
I don't understand that attitude. Seeking an alternative to US hegemony does not imply seeking the opposite extreme. Russia is , essentially, a capitalist country. It has a reasonable, pragmatic approach to human rights. It is not North Korea.

More people are being exposed to the truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6J-Qg9kN3M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6J-Qg9kN3M)
It really doesn't.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Kursk on October 31, 2015, 04:12:59 PM
It depends what your reference point is I suppose and there is a lot of subjectivity. For example Saudi Arabia is ranked one of the worst in the world but I think many muslim countries (at least of the Sunni persuasion) would strongly dispute that ranking.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: highorlow on November 02, 2015, 12:14:58 PM
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/eh-folks-we-need-to-talk-yet-again-about-enda-34158948.html

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on November 02, 2015, 01:01:43 PM
Quote from: highorlow on November 02, 2015, 12:14:58 PM
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/eh-folks-we-need-to-talk-yet-again-about-enda-34158948.html

When you see the things he's said and done pulled together in an article like that it just confirms how big a feckin eejit Kenny really is.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2015, 04:29:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 02, 2015, 01:01:43 PM
Quote from: highorlow on November 02, 2015, 12:14:58 PM
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/eh-folks-we-need-to-talk-yet-again-about-enda-34158948.html

When you see the things he's said and done pulled together in an article like that it just confirms how big a feckin eejit Kenny really is.

I thought this comment beneath it was interesting:

Is that all we need to talk about Gene?   Not republican army councils?  Not republican paedophilia?   Not republican rapes or cover ups?  Not republican Kangaroo courts? Not poisoning of water systems along the border by republicans?  Not fuel or money laundering by republicans? 

In the whole twenty odd years I've been reading Gene Kerrigan there has never been a whole column by him criticizing the pernicious activities of the republican movement.  All the constitutional party's in the state get in the neck from Gene but never Sinn Fein.   Why not?


Fine Gael have clearly higher than normal levels of incompetence and gombeenism, but some of the others parties are in a different place altogether.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on November 02, 2015, 09:18:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2015, 04:29:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 02, 2015, 01:01:43 PM
Quote from: highorlow on November 02, 2015, 12:14:58 PM
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/eh-folks-we-need-to-talk-yet-again-about-enda-34158948.html

When you see the things he's said and done pulled together in an article like that it just confirms how big a feckin eejit Kenny really is.

I thought this comment beneath it was interesting:

Is that all we need to talk about Gene?   Not republican army councils?  Not republican paedophilia?   Not republican rapes or cover ups?  Not republican Kangaroo courts? Not poisoning of water systems along the border by republicans?  Not fuel or money laundering by republicans? 

In the whole twenty odd years I've been reading Gene Kerrigan there has never been a whole column by him criticizing the pernicious activities of the republican movement.  All the constitutional party's in the state get in the neck from Gene but never Sinn Fein.   Why not?


Fine Gael have clearly higher than normal levels of incompetence and gombeenism, but some of the others parties are in a different place altogether.

Focusing on messenger as opposed to the message. I'm sure Gene would tackle SinnFein if they got in to govt. Fine Gael are in govt now and the article is about the taoiseach and the blatant lies he's telling. The fact SinnFein are worse is irrelevant. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on November 02, 2015, 09:58:38 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on November 02, 2015, 09:18:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2015, 04:29:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 02, 2015, 01:01:43 PM
Quote from: highorlow on November 02, 2015, 12:14:58 PM
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/eh-folks-we-need-to-talk-yet-again-about-enda-34158948.html

When you see the things he's said and done pulled together in an article like that it just confirms how big a feckin eejit Kenny really is.

I thought this comment beneath it was interesting:

Is that all we need to talk about Gene?   Not republican army councils?  Not republican paedophilia?   Not republican rapes or cover ups?  Not republican Kangaroo courts? Not poisoning of water systems along the border by republicans?  Not fuel or money laundering by republicans? 

In the whole twenty odd years I've been reading Gene Kerrigan there has never been a whole column by him criticizing the pernicious activities of the republican movement.  All the constitutional party's in the state get in the neck from Gene but never Sinn Fein.   Why not?


Fine Gael have clearly higher than normal levels of incompetence and gombeenism, but some of the others parties are in a different place altogether.

Focusing on messenger as opposed to the message. I'm sure Gene would tackle SinnFein if they got in to govt. Fine Gael are in govt now and the article is about the taoiseach and the blatant lies he's telling. The fact SinnFein are worse is irrelevant.
Not really. If they're the alternative and you think they're worse, then you're better with FG, no?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on November 02, 2015, 10:44:53 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 02, 2015, 09:58:38 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on November 02, 2015, 09:18:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2015, 04:29:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 02, 2015, 01:01:43 PM
Quote from: highorlow on November 02, 2015, 12:14:58 PM
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/eh-folks-we-need-to-talk-yet-again-about-enda-34158948.html

When you see the things he's said and done pulled together in an article like that it just confirms how big a feckin eejit Kenny really is.

I thought this comment beneath it was interesting:

Is that all we need to talk about Gene?   Not republican army councils?  Not republican paedophilia?   Not republican rapes or cover ups?  Not republican Kangaroo courts? Not poisoning of water systems along the border by republicans?  Not fuel or money laundering by republicans? 

In the whole twenty odd years I've been reading Gene Kerrigan there has never been a whole column by him criticizing the pernicious activities of the republican movement.  All the constitutional party's in the state get in the neck from Gene but never Sinn Fein.   Why not?


Fine Gael have clearly higher than normal levels of incompetence and gombeenism, but some of the others parties are in a different place altogether.

Focusing on messenger as opposed to the message. I'm sure Gene would tackle SinnFein if they got in to govt. Fine Gael are in govt now and the article is about the taoiseach and the blatant lies he's telling. The fact SinnFein are worse is irrelevant.
Not really. If they're the alternative and you think they're worse, then you're better with FG, no?
The article was about Fine Gael not Sinn Fein. We know you think everything is fine the way it is. Deflection tactics by Blueshirt corruption apologists  to say SinnFein are worse. Could be said the Fine Gael have blood on their hands too because of their policies to look after the rich at the expense of the sick and poor. 5,000 families homeless last month.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2015, 11:01:36 PM
(http://www.homelessdublin.ie/sites/default/files/content_uploaded/roughsleeper2007-2015.JPG)

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/number-of-homeless-children-in-dublin-doubles-in-a-year-1.2396086 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/number-of-homeless-children-in-dublin-doubles-in-a-year-1.2396086)

.....The national data, just published by the Department of the Environment, show there were 1,571 homeless children in 738 families across the State last month......

Shocking figures, but not as shocking as this: '5,000 families homeless last month'.

Even Enda would blush at that one.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on November 02, 2015, 11:32:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2015, 04:29:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 02, 2015, 01:01:43 PM
Quote from: highorlow on November 02, 2015, 12:14:58 PM
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/eh-folks-we-need-to-talk-yet-again-about-enda-34158948.html

When you see the things he's said and done pulled together in an article like that it just confirms how big a feckin eejit Kenny really is.

I thought this comment beneath it was interesting:

Is that all we need to talk about Gene?   Not republican army councils?  Not republican paedophilia?   Not republican rapes or cover ups?  Not republican Kangaroo courts? Not poisoning of water systems along the border by republicans?  Not fuel or money laundering by republicans? 

In the whole twenty odd years I've been reading Gene Kerrigan there has never been a whole column by him criticizing the pernicious activities of the republican movement.  All the constitutional party's in the state get in the neck from Gene but never Sinn Fein.   Why not?


Fine Gael have clearly higher than normal levels of incompetence and gombeenism, but some of the others parties are in a different place altogether.

What about... what about... put this on the Sinn Fein thread. (You won't get me defending it either). Enda's a clown.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 01:38:57 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2015, 11:01:36 PM
(http://www.homelessdublin.ie/sites/default/files/content_uploaded/roughsleeper2007-2015.JPG)

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/number-of-homeless-children-in-dublin-doubles-in-a-year-1.2396086 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/number-of-homeless-children-in-dublin-doubles-in-a-year-1.2396086)

.....The national data, just published by the Department of the Environment, show there were 1,571 homeless children in 738 families across the State last month......

Shocking figures, but not as shocking as this: '5,000 families homeless last month'.

Even Enda would blush at that one.

Who do the Department of the environment work for again? Of course I expect the government to give a damning report about themselves. No figure massaging there I bet...

How do you really think these poll figures are reached? A few lads with clipboards around D4 or Grafton St asking "Excuse me sir, are you homeless?".

The true figures vs the govt ones will be way off...

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on November 03, 2015, 08:30:11 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2015, 11:01:36 PM
(http://www.homelessdublin.ie/sites/default/files/content_uploaded/roughsleeper2007-2015.JPG)

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/number-of-homeless-children-in-dublin-doubles-in-a-year-1.2396086 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/number-of-homeless-children-in-dublin-doubles-in-a-year-1.2396086)

.....The national data, just published by the Department of the Environment, show there were 1,571 homeless children in 738 families across the State last month......

Shocking figures, but not as shocking as this: '5,000 families homeless last month'.

Even Enda would blush at that one.

Was on the news last night. 5,000 in emergency accommodation last month. It must have been people instead of families but either way still a shocking figure.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 09:47:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/
What exactly is it that you have a problem with? Do you think the current situation is preferable?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 01:49:33 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 09:47:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/
What exactly is it that you have a problem with? Do you think the current situation is preferable?

None of these situations are preferable. There shouldn't be a need in the first place.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on November 03, 2015, 01:56:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2015, 11:01:36 PM
(http://www.homelessdublin.ie/sites/default/files/content_uploaded/roughsleeper2007-2015.JPG)

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/number-of-homeless-children-in-dublin-doubles-in-a-year-1.2396086 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/number-of-homeless-children-in-dublin-doubles-in-a-year-1.2396086)

.....The national data, just published by the Department of the Environment, show there were 1,571 homeless children in 738 families across the State last month......

Shocking figures, but not as shocking as this: '5,000 families homeless last month'.

Even Enda would blush at that one.

To be honest, I don't think he would.  This is the man told people than someone had phoned him to thank him for the few extra quid he had in his wages.  With a straight face.  How he can hope to maintain credibility after coming out with something as childish as this beggars belief.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 01:49:33 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 09:47:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/
What exactly is it that you have a problem with? Do you think the current situation is preferable?

None of these situations are preferable. There shouldn't be a need in the first place.
You're criticising an initiative that attempts to deal with a current problem and your response is that there shouldn't be a need for it in the first place?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 01:49:33 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 09:47:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/
What exactly is it that you have a problem with? Do you think the current situation is preferable?

None of these situations are preferable. There shouldn't be a need in the first place.
You're criticising an initiative that attempts to deal with a current problem and your response is that there shouldn't be a need for it in the first place?

Wasting resources.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:40:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 01:49:33 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 09:47:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/
What exactly is it that you have a problem with? Do you think the current situation is preferable?

None of these situations are preferable. There shouldn't be a need in the first place.
You're criticising an initiative that attempts to deal with a current problem and your response is that there shouldn't be a need for it in the first place?

Wasting resources.
So you'd just leave things as they are in this regard?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:44:20 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:40:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 01:49:33 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 09:47:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/
What exactly is it that you have a problem with? Do you think the current situation is preferable?

None of these situations are preferable. There shouldn't be a need in the first place.
You're criticising an initiative that attempts to deal with a current problem and your response is that there shouldn't be a need for it in the first place?

Wasting resources.
So you'd just leave things as they are in this regard?
As I said, there should be no need for any of this. Personal responsibility and some cop on.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:44:20 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:40:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 01:49:33 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 09:47:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/
What exactly is it that you have a problem with? Do you think the current situation is preferable?

None of these situations are preferable. There shouldn't be a need in the first place.
You're criticising an initiative that attempts to deal with a current problem and your response is that there shouldn't be a need for it in the first place?

Wasting resources.
So you'd just leave things as they are in this regard?
As I said, there should be no need for any of this. Personal responsibility and some cop on.

You're intentionally avoiding the question so here it is again. Given the current situation (not what should/should not be the situation) and given that you think this initiative is a waste of resources, what do you suggest be done?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:51:01 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:44:20 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:40:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 01:49:33 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 09:47:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/
What exactly is it that you have a problem with? Do you think the current situation is preferable?

None of these situations are preferable. There shouldn't be a need in the first place.
You're criticising an initiative that attempts to deal with a current problem and your response is that there shouldn't be a need for it in the first place?

Wasting resources.
So you'd just leave things as they are in this regard?
As I said, there should be no need for any of this. Personal responsibility and some cop on.

You're intentionally avoiding the question so here it is again. Given the current situation (not what should/should not be the situation) and given that you think this initiative is a waste of resources, what do you suggest be done?

It's irrelevant what I think should be done. I'm merely pointed out these selfish/stupid individuals are taking resources away from those who might need it more.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 03:14:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:51:01 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:44:20 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:40:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 01:49:33 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 09:47:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/
What exactly is it that you have a problem with? Do you think the current situation is preferable?

None of these situations are preferable. There shouldn't be a need in the first place.
You're criticising an initiative that attempts to deal with a current problem and your response is that there shouldn't be a need for it in the first place?

Wasting resources.
So you'd just leave things as they are in this regard?
As I said, there should be no need for any of this. Personal responsibility and some cop on.

You're intentionally avoiding the question so here it is again. Given the current situation (not what should/should not be the situation) and given that you think this initiative is a waste of resources, what do you suggest be done?

It's irrelevant what I think should be done. I'm merely pointed out these selfish/stupid individuals are taking resources away from those who might need it more.
Like the obese or those suffering from lung cancer for example or are resources wasted on those people too. After all, weren't they stupid to eat badly and smoke cigarettes? What about someone that didn't bother completing their leaving cert or a third level education? Should we remove any benefit they might be on?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 03, 2015, 03:37:17 PM
Esmeralda, you're dealing with the daftest poster on the GAA board there.
I put him on my blocked list ages ago. Seeing the stuff you have quoted once more confirms the correctness of doing so.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 04:12:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 03, 2015, 03:37:17 PM
Esmeralda, you're dealing with the daftest poster on the GAA board there.
I put him on my blocked list ages ago. Seeing the stuff you have quoted once more confirms the correctness of doing so.
I suspected as much but best to make sure.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 04:22:35 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 03:14:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:51:01 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:44:20 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:40:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 01:49:33 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 09:47:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/
What exactly is it that you have a problem with? Do you think the current situation is preferable?

None of these situations are preferable. There shouldn't be a need in the first place.
You're criticising an initiative that attempts to deal with a current problem and your response is that there shouldn't be a need for it in the first place?

Wasting resources.
So you'd just leave things as they are in this regard?
As I said, there should be no need for any of this. Personal responsibility and some cop on.

You're intentionally avoiding the question so here it is again. Given the current situation (not what should/should not be the situation) and given that you think this initiative is a waste of resources, what do you suggest be done?

It's irrelevant what I think should be done. I'm merely pointed out these selfish/stupid individuals are taking resources away from those who might need it more.
Like the obese or those suffering from lung cancer for example or are resources wasted on those people too. After all, weren't they stupid to eat badly and smoke cigarettes? What about someone that didn't bother completing their leaving cert or a third level education? Should we remove any benefit they might be on?

Who mentioned benefits?
If you didn't finish your leaving cert there may be many reasons for that. Heroin as a choice (which it is) is avoidable.

But go ahead and make excuses for it.

and Rossfan  ;D ;D ;D - still following me. I love it!!




Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 04:49:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 04:22:35 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 03:14:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:51:01 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:44:20 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:40:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 01:49:33 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 09:47:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/
What exactly is it that you have a problem with? Do you think the current situation is preferable?

None of these situations are preferable. There shouldn't be a need in the first place.
You're criticising an initiative that attempts to deal with a current problem and your response is that there shouldn't be a need for it in the first place?

Wasting resources.
So you'd just leave things as they are in this regard?
As I said, there should be no need for any of this. Personal responsibility and some cop on.

You're intentionally avoiding the question so here it is again. Given the current situation (not what should/should not be the situation) and given that you think this initiative is a waste of resources, what do you suggest be done?

It's irrelevant what I think should be done. I'm merely pointed out these selfish/stupid individuals are taking resources away from those who might need it more.
Like the obese or those suffering from lung cancer for example or are resources wasted on those people too. After all, weren't they stupid to eat badly and smoke cigarettes? What about someone that didn't bother completing their leaving cert or a third level education? Should we remove any benefit they might be on?

Who mentioned benefits?
If you didn't finish your leaving cert there may be many reasons for that. Heroin as a choice (which it is) is avoidable.

But go ahead and make excuses for it.

and Rossfan  ;D ;D ;D - still following me. I love it!!





I mentioned benefits. It's all coming from the one pot.

If you choose to not do your leaving cert because you're lazy or you believe, as young person, that it is more beneficial to wok, then would withdraw benefits? That's a choice, similar to taking heroin. As is smoking or eating badly, not exercising etc.

I'm not making excuses for anyone, I just believe it's a good plan.

So again, could you answer the question?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 05:04:38 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 04:49:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 04:22:35 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 03:14:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:51:01 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:44:20 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:40:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 01:49:33 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 09:47:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/
What exactly is it that you have a problem with? Do you think the current situation is preferable?

None of these situations are preferable. There shouldn't be a need in the first place.
You're criticising an initiative that attempts to deal with a current problem and your response is that there shouldn't be a need for it in the first place?

Wasting resources.
So you'd just leave things as they are in this regard?
As I said, there should be no need for any of this. Personal responsibility and some cop on.

You're intentionally avoiding the question so here it is again. Given the current situation (not what should/should not be the situation) and given that you think this initiative is a waste of resources, what do you suggest be done?

It's irrelevant what I think should be done. I'm merely pointed out these selfish/stupid individuals are taking resources away from those who might need it more.
Like the obese or those suffering from lung cancer for example or are resources wasted on those people too. After all, weren't they stupid to eat badly and smoke cigarettes? What about someone that didn't bother completing their leaving cert or a third level education? Should we remove any benefit they might be on?

Who mentioned benefits?
If you didn't finish your leaving cert there may be many reasons for that. Heroin as a choice (which it is) is avoidable.

But go ahead and make excuses for it.

and Rossfan  ;D ;D ;D - still following me. I love it!!





I mentioned benefits. It's all coming from the one pot.

If you choose to not do your leaving cert because you're lazy or you believe, as young person, that it is more beneficial to wok, then would withdraw benefits? That's a choice, similar to taking heroin. As is smoking or eating badly, not exercising etc.

I'm not making excuses for anyone, I just believe it's a good plan.

So again, could you answer the question?

Equating taking heroin with not finishing your leaving cert. Jesus.
I don't care what happens to junkies. Time and money spent on a self inflicted problem when there are real hard luck cases - people losing their houses, elderly who won't have heating this xmas.
Read into that what you want.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 05:46:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 05:04:38 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 04:49:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 04:22:35 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 03:14:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:51:01 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:44:20 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:40:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 01:49:33 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 09:47:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/
What exactly is it that you have a problem with? Do you think the current situation is preferable?

None of these situations are preferable. There shouldn't be a need in the first place.
You're criticising an initiative that attempts to deal with a current problem and your response is that there shouldn't be a need for it in the first place?

Wasting resources.
So you'd just leave things as they are in this regard?
As I said, there should be no need for any of this. Personal responsibility and some cop on.

You're intentionally avoiding the question so here it is again. Given the current situation (not what should/should not be the situation) and given that you think this initiative is a waste of resources, what do you suggest be done?

It's irrelevant what I think should be done. I'm merely pointed out these selfish/stupid individuals are taking resources away from those who might need it more.
Like the obese or those suffering from lung cancer for example or are resources wasted on those people too. After all, weren't they stupid to eat badly and smoke cigarettes? What about someone that didn't bother completing their leaving cert or a third level education? Should we remove any benefit they might be on?

Who mentioned benefits?
If you didn't finish your leaving cert there may be many reasons for that. Heroin as a choice (which it is) is avoidable.

But go ahead and make excuses for it.

and Rossfan  ;D ;D ;D - still following me. I love it!!





I mentioned benefits. It's all coming from the one pot.

If you choose to not do your leaving cert because you're lazy or you believe, as young person, that it is more beneficial to wok, then would withdraw benefits? That's a choice, similar to taking heroin. As is smoking or eating badly, not exercising etc.

I'm not making excuses for anyone, I just believe it's a good plan.

So again, could you answer the question?

Equating taking heroin with not finishing your leaving cert. Jesus.
I don't care what happens to junkies. Time and money spent on a self inflicted problem when there are real hard luck cases - people losing their houses, elderly who won't have heating this xmas.
Read into that what you want.

Nobody's equating anything but if my education/employment example upsets you try the obese one. Do you care about them? Should money be put into educating people about their lifesytle choices?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on November 03, 2015, 05:52:51 PM
It's amazing to see the attitudes towards vulnerable people, be it those with dependency issues, refugees etc., from those who purport to support left-leaning parties.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 06:48:29 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 05:46:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 05:04:38 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 04:49:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 04:22:35 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 03:14:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:51:01 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:44:20 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 02:40:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 01:58:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 01:49:33 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 09:47:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/
What exactly is it that you have a problem with? Do you think the current situation is preferable?

None of these situations are preferable. There shouldn't be a need in the first place.
You're criticising an initiative that attempts to deal with a current problem and your response is that there shouldn't be a need for it in the first place?

Wasting resources.
So you'd just leave things as they are in this regard?
As I said, there should be no need for any of this. Personal responsibility and some cop on.

You're intentionally avoiding the question so here it is again. Given the current situation (not what should/should not be the situation) and given that you think this initiative is a waste of resources, what do you suggest be done?

It's irrelevant what I think should be done. I'm merely pointed out these selfish/stupid individuals are taking resources away from those who might need it more.
Like the obese or those suffering from lung cancer for example or are resources wasted on those people too. After all, weren't they stupid to eat badly and smoke cigarettes? What about someone that didn't bother completing their leaving cert or a third level education? Should we remove any benefit they might be on?

Who mentioned benefits?
If you didn't finish your leaving cert there may be many reasons for that. Heroin as a choice (which it is) is avoidable.

But go ahead and make excuses for it.

and Rossfan  ;D ;D ;D - still following me. I love it!!





I mentioned benefits. It's all coming from the one pot.

If you choose to not do your leaving cert because you're lazy or you believe, as young person, that it is more beneficial to wok, then would withdraw benefits? That's a choice, similar to taking heroin. As is smoking or eating badly, not exercising etc.

I'm not making excuses for anyone, I just believe it's a good plan.

So again, could you answer the question?

Equating taking heroin with not finishing your leaving cert. Jesus.
I don't care what happens to junkies. Time and money spent on a self inflicted problem when there are real hard luck cases - people losing their houses, elderly who won't have heating this xmas.
Read into that what you want.

Nobody's equating anything but if my education/employment example upsets you try the obese one. Do you care about them? Should money be put into educating people about their lifesytle choices?

I really don't know how in this day and age that the dangers of eating junk food or injecting heroin is a surprise.
The consequences of these actions are well known.

Whatever happened to personal responsibility. Kids requiring hospital beds being denied funding because it's being allocated to making nicer junkie spaces.

Again getting back to the FG aspect of this - it's money being wasted by a govt department.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 03, 2015, 07:21:02 PM
The dangers are well known and hopefully in the future the lessons will be learned but you think that people in current difficulty should be disregarded. Have you ever done anything in your life that required help from others?

Also, do you think that this particular idea going ahead will directly result in sick children not getting beds? We had plenty of money 10 years ago and we still had similar problems in the HSE. You bring the term "black and white" to new levels.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on November 03, 2015, 08:00:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2015, 05:52:51 PM
It's amazing to see the attitudes towards vulnerable people, be it those with dependency issues, refugees etc., from those who purport to support left-leaning parties.

True for you Mother Theresa.  If only they'd given those resources to a more worthy cause like Denis O Brien.  You should get on to your Blueshirt brethren and start asking questions. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: finbar o tool on November 03, 2015, 08:21:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/

I absolutely applaud this. About time! Anyone who is against something like this is brainless!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 08:53:49 PM
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 03, 2015, 08:21:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/

I absolutely applaud this. About time! Anyone who is against something like this is brainless!

Having to dodge through zombie druggies in Dublin City Centre for a few years I understand the issue and the reasons for it. Bumping into them shooting up with trousers around their ankles outside your front door isn't a very nice sight.

My issue with this is the resources that are being funnelled into this exercise when there are far more worthy causes that need attention but because they don't cause general disturbances like the druggies it's easier to ignore them.

but if the state wants to prop them up forever...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: finbar o tool on November 03, 2015, 09:02:47 PM
At this stage, almost every corner of society, every department, is a worthy cause. Such is modern day Ireland. This "war on drugs" or whatever its called these days CLEARLY isnt working.
Most people think 'drugs are bad', 'throw any scum who use any sort of drug in jail' as if that'll fix our problems! We need progressive thinking on this, and this is what the "minister for druggies" is trying to do.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on November 03, 2015, 09:11:30 PM
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 03, 2015, 09:02:47 PM
At this stage, almost every corner of society, every department, is a worthy cause. Such is modern day Ireland. This "war on drugs" or whatever its called these days CLEARLY isnt working.
Most people think 'drugs are bad', 'throw any scum who use any sort of drug in jail' as if that'll fix our problems! We need progressive thinking on this, and this is what the "minister for druggies" is trying to do.

Nothing but a token gesture. Funding to treatment centres slashed and treatment geared towards out patient which makes it harder for addicts to stay off it. Not sure but are waiting lists for these rehab courses something like two or three years.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 09:27:09 PM
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 03, 2015, 09:02:47 PM
Most people think 'drugs are bad'

They aren't?? Wow - and there was me thinking they only bring misery and a host of other problems.

Making excuses for this is a problem. Why should law abiding citizens have to put up with it? The knock on effects of crime due to theft and drug dealing activities is something we could all do without.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: finbar o tool on November 03, 2015, 10:01:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 09:27:09 PM
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 03, 2015, 09:02:47 PM
Most people think 'drugs are bad'

They aren't?? Wow - and there was me thinking they only bring misery and a host of other problems.

Making excuses for this is a problem. Why should law abiding citizens have to put up with it? The knock on effects of crime due to theft and drug dealing activities is something we could all do without.

You take one remark i make out of context, just to make a "funny" joke?
I dont even follow you, are you for or against this??

Alcohol is the single worst drug on the planet. It causes infinite death/pain/misery mental and physical abuse etc etc etc etc just look at the 'drink driving' thread!
And if i go out tonight and get hammered, fall the whole way home, no one bats an eye! Its funny to some people. I would say everyone on this site knows someone badly affected by alcohol one way or another. But we cant treat people with drug addictions like patients rather than criminals? Why dont we lock up alcoholics in jail. People who get addicted to pain killers and other over the counter drugs, why dont we throw them in jail??
The situation as it is, is not manageable.
Open your minds to other solutions as other countries successfully have!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on November 03, 2015, 10:33:40 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on November 03, 2015, 08:00:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2015, 05:52:51 PM
It's amazing to see the attitudes towards vulnerable people, be it those with dependency issues, refugees etc., from those who purport to support left-leaning parties.

True for you Mother Theresa.  If only they'd given those resources to a more worthy cause like Denis O Brien.  You should get on to your Blueshirt brethren and start asking questions.
Surely you can do better than that?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on November 03, 2015, 10:40:27 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 08:53:49 PM
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 03, 2015, 08:21:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/

I absolutely applaud this. About time! Anyone who is against something like this is brainless!

Having to dodge through zombie druggies in Dublin City Centre for a few years I understand the issue and the reasons for it. Bumping into them shooting up with trousers around their ankles outside your front door isn't a very nice sight.

My issue with this is the resources that are being funnelled into this exercise when there are far more worthy causes that need attention but because they don't cause general disturbances like the druggies it's easier to ignore them.

but if the state wants to prop them up forever...
Once again, all the problems and no solutions.

If this stops a few addicts contracting HIV and Hepatitis C, then surely it will save the health service money in the long term? Not to mention improving the prospects of the addicts in this regard, and taking this off the street. It's a proven approach in other countries, so it seems like something worth pursuing.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 04, 2015, 08:14:45 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 03, 2015, 08:53:49 PM
Quote from: finbar o tool on November 03, 2015, 08:21:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 02, 2015, 07:46:22 PM
That's awesome. Minister for druggies. Passionate environment??? WTH.
Meanwhile there are people with genuine medical issues that are not self inflicted that are denied treatment due to cuts.
More PC madness.


"It will effectively mean a diplomatic immunity to inject heroin in a safe, secure, passionate environment," he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2015/1102/739107-minister-proposes-injection-rooms-for-addicts/

I absolutely applaud this. About time! Anyone who is against something like this is brainless!

Having to dodge through zombie druggies in Dublin City Centre for a few years I understand the issue and the reasons for it. Bumping into them shooting up with trousers around their ankles outside your front door isn't a very nice sight.

My issue with this is the resources that are being funnelled into this exercise when there are far more worthy causes that need attention but because they don't cause general disturbances like the druggies it's easier to ignore them.

but if the state wants to prop them up forever...
So you've encountered these people, they bother you but you just hope it goes away without doing anything about it.

Are you actually serious or a WUM? Genuine question.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on November 04, 2015, 08:27:50 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2015, 10:33:40 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on November 03, 2015, 08:00:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 03, 2015, 05:52:51 PM
It's amazing to see the attitudes towards vulnerable people, be it those with dependency issues, refugees etc., from those who purport to support left-leaning parties.

True for you Mother Theresa.  If only they'd given those resources to a more worthy cause like Denis O Brien.  You should get on to your Blueshirt brethren and start asking questions.
Surely you can do better than that?

Coming from the man who thinks Irish Water is a great idea and will somehow reduce the national deficit, I don't need to.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on November 04, 2015, 02:46:55 PM
To paraphrase Con Houlihan, a man who can dangle a modifier is capable of anything.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 04, 2015, 09:43:31 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 04, 2015, 08:14:45 AM

So you've encountered these people, they bother you but you just hope it goes away without doing anything about it.


Anyone caught dealing heroin gets executed. How about that for starters?
Seems to work as a deterrent in other countries.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 07, 2015, 11:06:06 PM
Blue shirt comeback begins.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/poll-shows-rise-in-fg-support-as-labour-fails-to-make-ground-704531.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2015, 03:34:45 AM
The numbers show a FG/FF coalition to form the next government. There doesn't see to be any other way for a majority.

Will be very interesting to see them finally have to work together.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on November 08, 2015, 09:34:34 AM
There's a long way to go yet. A lot can change in the next 4 or 5 months. And look at the polls in the UK.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 08, 2015, 12:04:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 04, 2015, 09:43:31 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 04, 2015, 08:14:45 AM

So you've encountered these people, they bother you but you just hope it goes away without doing anything about it.


Anyone caught dealing heroin gets executed. How about that for starters?
Seems to work as a deterrent in other countries.
First of all well done on actually making a point. Now that you have, in which countrys is the death penalty a deterrent?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on November 09, 2015, 11:06:27 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/murphy-raised-questions-over-ibrc-inquiry-weeks-ago-1.2422768

The more that comes out about this govt the more you think it's not all down to incompetence. The latest being the IBRC/Siteserve inquiry. Catherine Murphy eventually shamed Noonan into setting up an inquiry. To say he and the govt wanted this to go away is an understatement.

An inquiry was set up. First judge resigned for personal reasons. 2nd Judge tells us he can't investigate as he has no powers. The AG will get most of heat for this and maybe some of it is warranted but this inquiry was set up to fail. Govt would prefer us to believe that this it's down to incompetence. They have the perfect tool in charge to make it look like that. To think satisfaction levels for this govt are at an all time high shows that people really do not care.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 10, 2015, 03:00:03 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2015, 12:04:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 04, 2015, 09:43:31 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 04, 2015, 08:14:45 AM

So you've encountered these people, they bother you but you just hope it goes away without doing anything about it.


Anyone caught dealing heroin gets executed. How about that for starters?
Seems to work as a deterrent in other countries.
First of all well done on actually making a point. Now that you have, in which countrys is the death penalty a deterrent?

Listen sweetheart, you asked for a solution and I gave you one. How about discussing it's merits unless by your lack of response you agree with me.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 10, 2015, 09:26:25 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 10, 2015, 03:00:03 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2015, 12:04:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 04, 2015, 09:43:31 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 04, 2015, 08:14:45 AM

So you've encountered these people, they bother you but you just hope it goes away without doing anything about it.


Anyone caught dealing heroin gets executed. How about that for starters?
Seems to work as a deterrent in other countries.
First of all well done on actually making a point. Now that you have, in which countrys is the death penalty a deterrent?

Listen sweetheart, you asked for a solution and I gave you one. How about discussing it's merits unless by your lack of response you agree with me.

Sweetheart? I know I'll regret engaging with you in time but you're irresistible at the minute.

From what I've read, your solution is groundless. Imposing the death penalty for drug crime doesn't seem to be a deterrent as you've pointed out.

Now I asked you to tell me what countries you're referring to but you hit me with the sweetheart line so you possibly have a point, if you'd only make it properly. So not for the first time I'll repeat the question; in which countries is the death penalty a deterrent..........big boy? :-*
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 10, 2015, 07:56:56 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 10, 2015, 09:26:25 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 10, 2015, 03:00:03 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 08, 2015, 12:04:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 04, 2015, 09:43:31 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 04, 2015, 08:14:45 AM

So you've encountered these people, they bother you but you just hope it goes away without doing anything about it.


Anyone caught dealing heroin gets executed. How about that for starters?
Seems to work as a deterrent in other countries.
First of all well done on actually making a point. Now that you have, in which countrys is the death penalty a deterrent?

Listen sweetheart, you asked for a solution and I gave you one. How about discussing it's merits unless by your lack of response you agree with me.

Sweetheart? I know I'll regret engaging with you in time but you're irresistible at the minute.

From what I've read, your solution is groundless. Imposing the death penalty for drug crime doesn't seem to be a deterrent as you've pointed out.

Now I asked you to tell me what countries you're referring to but you hit me with the sweetheart line so you possibly have a point, if you'd only make it properly. So not for the first time I'll repeat the question; in which countries is the death penalty a deterrent..........big boy? :-*

No problem toots  :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_country

Have a look under the drug trafficking header. If that isn't a deterrent tell me what is.

You'd have the place cleaned up in no time.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2015, 08:06:03 PM
Afghanistan produces 90% of the world's heroin and is the first country on the list that executes traffickers.

SO much for 'cleaned up in no time'.

I think this might qualify for the Darwin thread.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 10, 2015, 08:30:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 08:06:03 PM
Afghanistan produces 90% of the world's heroin and is the first country on the list that executes traffickers.

SO much for 'cleaned up in no time'.

I think this might qualify for the Darwin thread.

How would it qualify?

They mustn't do a good enforcement job with all the other distractions.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 10, 2015, 09:02:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 08:06:03 PM
Afghanistan produces 90% of the world's heroin and is the first country on the list that executes traffickers.

Maybe you've heard of alphabetical order ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on November 10, 2015, 09:46:57 PM
So basically no evidence can be shown to indicate that capital punishment is effective.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2015, 10:36:26 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 10, 2015, 09:46:57 PM
So basically no evidence can be shown to indicate that capital punishment is effective.

Far from it.

The evidence has shown that capital punishment has been completely and utterly useless in the prevention of drug trafficking. Funnier still, is that the provider of that evidence appears to think it proved the opposite.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 10, 2015, 10:43:29 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 10, 2015, 09:46:57 PM
So basically no evidence can be shown to indicate that capital punishment is effective.
There shouldn't have been any murders in Texas since about 1987 if capital punishment was effective.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:26:26 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 10, 2015, 09:46:57 PM
So basically no evidence can be shown to indicate that capital punishment is effective.

Who cares. Certainly "weed"s out a lot of the scum that peddle it. Ho ho!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:29:06 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 10:36:26 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 10, 2015, 09:46:57 PM
So basically no evidence can be shown to indicate that capital punishment is effective.

Far from it.

The evidence has shown that capital punishment has been completely and utterly useless in the prevention of drug trafficking. Funnier still, is that the provider of that evidence appears to think it proved the opposite.  ;D ;D ;D

If it's not enforced correctly how can it be. Try that in China and see how you get on.
Stupidity and greed will mean that people will always try make a buck out of someone elses misery. Funnier still eh?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 03:19:55 AM
I've yet to see any of the rest of you come up with a different way to get rid of junkies and dealers off the streets.

I don't want to extend this debate on the Fine Gal thread - which should be reserved for pointing out the elementary mistakes our brilliant Taoiseach and his band of merry men make (Think Robin Hood in reverse). If you want a junkie thread go ahead and set one up.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 11, 2015, 09:19:47 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 03:19:55 AM
I've yet to see any of the rest of you come up with a different way to get rid of junkies and dealers off the streets.

I don't want to extend this debate on the Fine Gal thread - which should be reserved for pointing out the elementary mistakes our brilliant Taoiseach and his band of merry men make (Think Robin Hood in reverse). If you want a junkie thread go ahead and set one up.
Of course you don't as there's only so much of a fool a person can make of themselves before even they feel a little silly.

The government have put forward a way of dealing with junkies, as you call them. This was what this debate was about. The issue was discussed as you criticised it. Nobody else did and many said it was a good idea.

Now on to your next escapade.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 11:22:50 AM
I think the "stupidest poster on GAABoard" title has definitely been retained for another year. ;D 8)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 11, 2015, 09:19:47 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 03:19:55 AM
I've yet to see any of the rest of you come up with a different way to get rid of junkies and dealers off the streets.

I don't want to extend this debate on the Fine Gal thread - which should be reserved for pointing out the elementary mistakes our brilliant Taoiseach and his band of merry men make (Think Robin Hood in reverse). If you want a junkie thread go ahead and set one up.
Of course you don't as there's only so much of a fool a person can make of themselves before even they feel a little silly.

The government have put forward a way of dealing with junkies, as you call them. This was what this debate was about. The issue was discussed as you criticised it. Nobody else did and many said it was a good idea.

Now on to your next escapade.

I made my point. You (and a few other of the PC brigade) not only want to go soft on drug dealers but have no issue spending taxpayers money on lounges for junkies to hang out.
No wonder the issue is only going to get worse.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:18:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 11:22:50 AM
I think the "stupidest poster on GAABoard" title has definitely been retained for another year. ;D 8)

Congratulations on your award. Add that to the sycophant of the year award. And poster with the least original things to say.

+1
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 11, 2015, 03:04:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 11, 2015, 09:19:47 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 03:19:55 AM
I've yet to see any of the rest of you come up with a different way to get rid of junkies and dealers off the streets.

I don't want to extend this debate on the Fine Gal thread - which should be reserved for pointing out the elementary mistakes our brilliant Taoiseach and his band of merry men make (Think Robin Hood in reverse). If you want a junkie thread go ahead and set one up.
Of course you don't as there's only so much of a fool a person can make of themselves before even they feel a little silly.

The government have put forward a way of dealing with junkies, as you call them. This was what this debate was about. The issue was discussed as you criticised it. Nobody else did and many said it was a good idea.

Now on to your next escapade.

I made my point. You (and a few other of the PC brigade) not only want to go soft on drug dealers but have no issue spending taxpayers money on lounges for junkies to hang out.
No wonder the issue is only going to get worse.
You made your point and backed it up with nothing. You want to execute drug dealers. Would this include, hypothetically, a 15 year old that sold an ounce of grass? I never mentioned drug dealers once. Yes, I support the proposition to have injection centres. Nobody else mentioned lounges other than you so only you know where you got that term from. And finally, you can tell the future? You know it's going to get worse now?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on November 11, 2015, 04:32:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:18:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 11:22:50 AM
I think the "stupidest poster on GAABoard" title has definitely been retained for another year. ;D 8)

Congratulations on your award. Add that to the sycophant of the year award. And poster with the least original things to say.

+1

Rossfan strikes me as the type that would have stood behind a bully shouting encoragement in the schoolyard.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 04:38:39 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on November 11, 2015, 04:32:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:18:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2015, 11:22:50 AM
I think the "stupidest poster on GAABoard" title has definitely been retained for another year. ;D 8)

Congratulations on your award. Add that to the sycophant of the year award. And poster with the least original things to say.

+1

Rossfan strikes me as the type that would have stood behind a bully shouting encoragement in the schoolyard.

We all know the type from schooldays. Those annoying little runts.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:26:06 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 11, 2015, 03:04:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 11, 2015, 09:19:47 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 03:19:55 AM
I've yet to see any of the rest of you come up with a different way to get rid of junkies and dealers off the streets.

I don't want to extend this debate on the Fine Gal thread - which should be reserved for pointing out the elementary mistakes our brilliant Taoiseach and his band of merry men make (Think Robin Hood in reverse). If you want a junkie thread go ahead and set one up.
Of course you don't as there's only so much of a fool a person can make of themselves before even they feel a little silly.

The government have put forward a way of dealing with junkies, as you call them. This was what this debate was about. The issue was discussed as you criticised it. Nobody else did and many said it was a good idea.

Now on to your next escapade.

I made my point. You (and a few other of the PC brigade) not only want to go soft on drug dealers but have no issue spending taxpayers money on lounges for junkies to hang out.
No wonder the issue is only going to get worse.
You made your point and backed it up with nothing. You want to execute drug dealers. Would this include, hypothetically, a 15 year old that sold an ounce of grass? I never mentioned drug dealers once. Yes, I support the proposition to have injection centres. Nobody else mentioned lounges other than you so only you know where you got that term from. And finally, you can tell the future? You know it's going to get worse now?

I think we were talking about hard drugs here, heroin to be precise. Your analogy for the 15 year old with some grass is a little off.
What's there to back up? Rid the streets of those selling misery. Your solution only targets the victims of this disease, not tackling those who want to prolong it and push to new clients.
If you start up some sort of club for junkies what sort of message does that send? And you'll have dealers outside the doors for takeaways. Fresh Cod and smack please.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 11, 2015, 05:52:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:26:06 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 11, 2015, 03:04:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 11, 2015, 09:19:47 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 03:19:55 AM
I've yet to see any of the rest of you come up with a different way to get rid of junkies and dealers off the streets.

I don't want to extend this debate on the Fine Gal thread - which should be reserved for pointing out the elementary mistakes our brilliant Taoiseach and his band of merry men make (Think Robin Hood in reverse). If you want a junkie thread go ahead and set one up.
Of course you don't as there's only so much of a fool a person can make of themselves before even they feel a little silly.

The government have put forward a way of dealing with junkies, as you call them. This was what this debate was about. The issue was discussed as you criticised it. Nobody else did and many said it was a good idea.

Now on to your next escapade.

I made my point. You (and a few other of the PC brigade) not only want to go soft on drug dealers but have no issue spending taxpayers money on lounges for junkies to hang out.
No wonder the issue is only going to get worse.
You made your point and backed it up with nothing. You want to execute drug dealers. Would this include, hypothetically, a 15 year old that sold an ounce of grass? I never mentioned drug dealers once. Yes, I support the proposition to have injection centres. Nobody else mentioned lounges other than you so only you know where you got that term from. And finally, you can tell the future? You know it's going to get worse now?

I think we were talking about hard drugs here, heroin to be precise. Your analogy for the 15 year old with some grass is a little off.
What's there to back up? Rid the streets of those selling misery. Your solution only targets the victims of this disease, not tackling those who want to prolong it and push to new clients.
If you start up some sort of club for junkies what sort of message does that send? And you'll have dealers outside the doors for takeaways. Fresh Cod and smack please.
Fair enough, replace grass with heroin and answer the question.

You posted a wikipedia link to show who uses capital punishment. You said that it worked in other countries. You didn't show that it works, you showed that it's used. By that logic the criminalisation of drugs works because countries apply it. It clearly doesn't.

I agree the streets should be rid of those selling hard drugs but you want to kill them all. For what it's worth I  think all drugs should be legalised, standardised, taxed and sold. Put money into education and treatment centres. You don't think government funds will be wasted in executing dealers? Should there even be a trial?

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 06:45:44 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 11, 2015, 05:52:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:26:06 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 11, 2015, 03:04:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 11, 2015, 09:19:47 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 03:19:55 AM
I've yet to see any of the rest of you come up with a different way to get rid of junkies and dealers off the streets.

I don't want to extend this debate on the Fine Gal thread - which should be reserved for pointing out the elementary mistakes our brilliant Taoiseach and his band of merry men make (Think Robin Hood in reverse). If you want a junkie thread go ahead and set one up.
Of course you don't as there's only so much of a fool a person can make of themselves before even they feel a little silly.

The government have put forward a way of dealing with junkies, as you call them. This was what this debate was about. The issue was discussed as you criticised it. Nobody else did and many said it was a good idea.

Now on to your next escapade.

I made my point. You (and a few other of the PC brigade) not only want to go soft on drug dealers but have no issue spending taxpayers money on lounges for junkies to hang out.
No wonder the issue is only going to get worse.
You made your point and backed it up with nothing. You want to execute drug dealers. Would this include, hypothetically, a 15 year old that sold an ounce of grass? I never mentioned drug dealers once. Yes, I support the proposition to have injection centres. Nobody else mentioned lounges other than you so only you know where you got that term from. And finally, you can tell the future? You know it's going to get worse now?

I think we were talking about hard drugs here, heroin to be precise. Your analogy for the 15 year old with some grass is a little off.
What's there to back up? Rid the streets of those selling misery. Your solution only targets the victims of this disease, not tackling those who want to prolong it and push to new clients.
If you start up some sort of club for junkies what sort of message does that send? And you'll have dealers outside the doors for takeaways. Fresh Cod and smack please.
Fair enough, replace grass with heroin and answer the question.

You posted a wikipedia link to show who uses capital punishment. You said that it worked in other countries. You didn't show that it works, you showed that it's used. By that logic the criminalisation of drugs works because countries apply it. It clearly doesn't.

I agree the streets should be rid of those selling hard drugs but you want to kill them all. For what it's worth I  think all drugs should be legalised, standardised, taxed and sold. Put money into education and treatment centres. You don't think government funds will be wasted in executing dealers? Should there even be a trial?
So by not taking dealers into the equation your solution only focused on the effect of the problem, not the cause.
That's leaving it pretty open-ended.

All drugs legalised? Holy cow. Are you off your rocker completely?
You dispute that capital punishment isn't a deterrent. Would you go to China and become involved in the industry? No, me neither. Unfortunately not all countries that have the law passed use it to its maximum effect. Damn human rights groups.

There are always those who will get involved even if it does mean forfeiting their lives - "get rich or die trying" from five-zero cents I believe.

Your soft punishment approach won't turn off new scumbags from getting involved in the trade and they'll try even more extremes to get the upper hand. Won't be too long before you get to Mexico standards of ruthlessness (as shown in the execution of that 9 year old in Chicago recently).
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 11, 2015, 06:59:04 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 06:45:44 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 11, 2015, 05:52:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:26:06 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 11, 2015, 03:04:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 11, 2015, 09:19:47 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 03:19:55 AM
I've yet to see any of the rest of you come up with a different way to get rid of junkies and dealers off the streets.

I don't want to extend this debate on the Fine Gal thread - which should be reserved for pointing out the elementary mistakes our brilliant Taoiseach and his band of merry men make (Think Robin Hood in reverse). If you want a junkie thread go ahead and set one up.
Of course you don't as there's only so much of a fool a person can make of themselves before even they feel a little silly.

The government have put forward a way of dealing with junkies, as you call them. This was what this debate was about. The issue was discussed as you criticised it. Nobody else did and many said it was a good idea.

Now on to your next escapade.

I made my point. You (and a few other of the PC brigade) not only want to go soft on drug dealers but have no issue spending taxpayers money on lounges for junkies to hang out.
No wonder the issue is only going to get worse.
You made your point and backed it up with nothing. You want to execute drug dealers. Would this include, hypothetically, a 15 year old that sold an ounce of grass? I never mentioned drug dealers once. Yes, I support the proposition to have injection centres. Nobody else mentioned lounges other than you so only you know where you got that term from. And finally, you can tell the future? You know it's going to get worse now?

I think we were talking about hard drugs here, heroin to be precise. Your analogy for the 15 year old with some grass is a little off.
What's there to back up? Rid the streets of those selling misery. Your solution only targets the victims of this disease, not tackling those who want to prolong it and push to new clients.
If you start up some sort of club for junkies what sort of message does that send? And you'll have dealers outside the doors for takeaways. Fresh Cod and smack please.
Fair enough, replace grass with heroin and answer the question.

You posted a wikipedia link to show who uses capital punishment. You said that it worked in other countries. You didn't show that it works, you showed that it's used. By that logic the criminalisation of drugs works because countries apply it. It clearly doesn't.

I agree the streets should be rid of those selling hard drugs but you want to kill them all. For what it's worth I  think all drugs should be legalised, standardised, taxed and sold. Put money into education and treatment centres. You don't think government funds will be wasted in executing dealers? Should there even be a trial?
So by not taking dealers into the equation your solution only focused on the effect of the problem, not the cause.
That's leaving it pretty open-ended.

All drugs legalised? Holy cow. Are you off your rocker completely?
You dispute that capital punishment isn't a deterrent. Would you go to China and become involved in the industry? No, me neither. Unfortunately not all countries that have the law passed use it to its maximum effect. Damn human rights groups.

There are always those who will get involved even if it does mean forfeiting their lives - "get rich or die trying" from five-zero cents I believe.

Your soft punishment approach won't turn off new scumbags from getting involved in the trade and they'll try even more extremes to get the upper hand. Won't be too long before you get to Mexico standards of ruthlessness (as shown in the execution of that 9 year old in Chicago recently).
AGAIN, the original proposal was how to treat addicts and it wasn't my plan, I just agreed with it.

It doesn't matter if I'd go to China or not. I'm unlikely to sell drugs in Ireland never mind anywhere else so I'm not relevant. The point is that drug dealers aren't put off by capital punishment. You said they were and didn't back it up. I feel you know this but are talking around the issue as you know your point is groundless. You could just admit this of course but that wouldn't look good, especially in front of someone you call sweetheart.

Finally, on the "are you off your rocker" comment, answer me this. Do you think anyone in Ireland that wants to take drugs today isn't able to get them? By legalising it, how would this make things worse? The war on drugs is an unequivocal disaster with no net improvement over forty years. You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over. My feelings are that we'll look back on this in fifty years and wonder what the hell took so long on dealing with it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 09:27:52 PM
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/girl-14-was-on-acid-during-absolutely-savage-gang-assault-34193494.html

drugs are bad, m'kay.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Esmarelda on November 12, 2015, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 09:27:52 PM
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/girl-14-was-on-acid-during-absolutely-savage-gang-assault-34193494.html

drugs are bad, m'kay.
Ok, I acknowledge you're a WUM but the measure of good WUM is how long he/she keeps attracting attention so on that note................
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 06:37:28 PM
They never mention the amount of people who have emigrated in all this....good press for an upcoming election

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/1117/742480-cso-unemployment/


Minister for Jobs Enterprise and Innovation Richard Bruton has welcomed the latest figures showing a drop in unemployment.

The estimated unemployment rate for October has been revised down to 8.9% - the first time unemployment has fallen below 9% since the end of 2008. 

Minister Bruton said this was the 12th quarter in a row of employment growth, with another 56,000 people joining the workforce over the last year.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on November 17, 2015, 10:44:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 06:37:28 PM
They never mention the amount of people who have emigrated in all this....good press for an upcoming election

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/1117/742480-cso-unemployment/


Minister for Jobs Enterprise and Innovation Richard Bruton has welcomed the latest figures showing a drop in unemployment.

The estimated unemployment rate for October has been revised down to 8.9% - the first time unemployment has fallen below 9% since the end of 2008. 

Minister Bruton said this was the 12th quarter in a row of employment growth, with another 56,000 people joining the workforce over the last year.
Surely employment growth is a good thing? If the trend continues, then those who emigrated have more prospects if they want to return.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 18, 2015, 03:29:16 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 17, 2015, 10:44:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 06:37:28 PM
They never mention the amount of people who have emigrated in all this....good press for an upcoming election

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/1117/742480-cso-unemployment/


Minister for Jobs Enterprise and Innovation Richard Bruton has welcomed the latest figures showing a drop in unemployment.

The estimated unemployment rate for October has been revised down to 8.9% - the first time unemployment has fallen below 9% since the end of 2008. 

Minister Bruton said this was the 12th quarter in a row of employment growth, with another 56,000 people joining the workforce over the last year.
Surely employment growth is a good thing? If the trend continues, then those who emigrated have more prospects if they want to return.

If you take the figures that have left the country into account the employment growth wouldn't be that impressive.

So this is Fine Gaels last ditch attempt to show they are doing a good job with massaged figures?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 18, 2015, 06:04:55 AM
Well show us an example of somewhere with higher employment growth.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on November 18, 2015, 07:12:53 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 18, 2015, 03:29:16 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 17, 2015, 10:44:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 06:37:28 PM
They never mention the amount of people who have emigrated in all this....good press for an upcoming election

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/1117/742480-cso-unemployment/


Minister for Jobs Enterprise and Innovation Richard Bruton has welcomed the latest figures showing a drop in unemployment.

The estimated unemployment rate for October has been revised down to 8.9% - the first time unemployment has fallen below 9% since the end of 2008. 

Minister Bruton said this was the 12th quarter in a row of employment growth, with another 56,000 people joining the workforce over the last year.
Surely employment growth is a good thing? If the trend continues, then those who emigrated have more prospects if they want to return.

If you take the figures that have left the country into account the employment growth wouldn't be that impressive.

So this is Fine Gaels last ditch attempt to show they are doing a good job with massaged figures?
The number of people who left is only relevant to the unemployment rate. Employment growth is employment growth. Another 56,000 in work is another 56,000 in work, regardless of how many have left.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 18, 2015, 09:55:08 AM
Good news is anathema to the whinging classes.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on November 18, 2015, 11:17:01 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 18, 2015, 07:12:53 AM
The number of people who left is only relevant to the unemployment rate. Employment growth is employment growth. Another 56,000 in work is another 56,000 in work, regardless of how many have left.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51BIE74ZcHL._UX385_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on November 18, 2015, 11:24:11 AM
But, but, but what about the people in that 56,000 that have gotten work abroad, or might in the future


I was in the car with a work colleague when the 1,000 jobs in Apple were announced "Sure Cork is fucked when Apple pull out, 5,000 jobs lost. What'll they do then?". I'm not sure how the government can answer that one
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 20, 2015, 08:24:05 PM
Hopefully FF in government along with Fine Gael will make them accountable for their actions. It's coming..the epic reunion...

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ff-still-aiming-to-form-coalition-government-34218265.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2015, 01:39:32 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on November 18, 2015, 11:24:11 AM
But, but, but what about the people in that 56,000 that have gotten work abroad, or might in the future


I was in the car with a work colleague when the 1,000 jobs in Apple were announced "Sure Cork is fucked when Apple pull out, 5,000 jobs lost. What'll they do then?". I'm not sure how the government can answer that one

Its ok. The far left will be in power by then and will nationalise it.

We will then all be comrades working for Úl.



Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 21, 2015, 02:04:40 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on November 18, 2015, 11:24:11 AM
But, but, but what about the people in that 56,000 that have gotten work abroad, or might in the future


I was in the car with a work colleague when the 1,000 jobs in Apple were announced "Sure Cork is fucked when Apple pull out, 5,000 jobs lost. What'll they do then?". I'm not sure how the government can answer that one

True enough. You need a local business, like Waterford Glass, and a white knight like Tony O'Reilly to keep it going.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 21, 2015, 10:00:18 AM
No doubt a SF Govt will employ them all as ahem.....community workers ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 21, 2015, 10:14:53 AM
Don't knock the government, this week they admitted they hadn't a clue how to introduce universal health insurance and only a day or two later Bon Secours announce more jobs.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 09, 2015, 03:49:59 AM
One of these lads is a complete chancer who's got no morals or backbone. Can you guess which?

(http://i65.tinypic.com/2a9wfhe.jpg)


oops - shouldn't have put them in the same picture...they don't want to be associated with the other just in case it ruins their reputation...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on December 09, 2015, 10:47:11 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 09, 2015, 03:49:59 AM
One of these lads is a complete chancer who's got no morals or backbone. Can you guess which?

(http://i65.tinypic.com/2a9wfhe.jpg)


oops - shouldn't have put them in the same picture...they don't want to be associated with the other just in case it ruins their reputation...

Would be funny only both these clowns have had influence, albeit limited enough influence, on how this country is run. Kenny's latest gaffe mentioning how the recession has impacted Ireland's ability to fund emission reductions when a recession in itself means output falls resulting in less emissions anyway.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on December 09, 2015, 11:25:54 AM
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-30204080 (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-30204080)

Sinn Féin MLAs have claimed nearly £700,000 in expenses for research from a company run by the party's finance managers.
The revelations came in a second BBC Spotlight programme on MLAs' expenses.
The programme also found claims of more than £4,000 in heating oil costs for one DUP MLA's office.
One MLA has called on police to investigate what he described as "several aspects of what appear to involve criminality".
'Potential forgery'
Traditional Ulster Voice leader Jim Allister said he would be writing to the chief constable about the issue.
"In particular, the siphoning of public money by Sinn Fein to an apparently bogus research company must be thoroughly investigated, along with potential forgery," he said.
Over the past 10 years, 36 different Sinn Féin MLAs claimed about £700,000 in total through Stormont expenses to pay Research Services Ireland.
Martin McGuinness alone claimed £42,000 over 10 years for the expertise of the company.
The company is run by Seamus Drumm and Sinead Walsh, who are in charge of running Sinn Féin's finance department in Northern Ireland.
'Too sensitive'
The BBC Spotlight NI programme was not able to find any evidence of research that had been carried out by Research Services Ireland (RSI).
The party said that RSI provided a centralised service and that other research facilities could not be used because the work was "too sensitive".
One Sinn Féin MLA said they had never heard of the company until they saw it on their annual expenses.
Five years ago, the police were alerted to concerns about expenses claims made by Sinn Féin for work done by the company, and a meeting was held with two assembly officials.
At the time, the Police Service of Northern Ireland decided that an investigation was not necessary.
Sinn Féin's biggest claims for payment to Research Services Ireland came after that date.
'No impropriety'
The party said that its office cost allowance spent with RSI was used exclusively for assembly and constituency work.
Speaking on the BBC's Nolan Show, Sinn Féin MLA Raymond McCartney said there had been "no impropriety" in his party's expenses claims and added they had "nothing to hide".
"I have no issue with any investigative process, indeed the Spotlight programme alluded that some time in the past the PSNI had been involved.
"They didn't find anything to proceed with an investigative process, I can draw a conclusion from that there was no evidence to go by" Mr McCartney said.
The former chair of the Westminster Committee on Standards in Public Life, Sir Alistair Graham, believes the issue should interest police.
"That sounds to me very near fraud - fraudulent behaviour and I would have thought was a very clear breach of even the current rules in Northern Ireland," he said.
"And I would've thought was worthy of police investigation."
Heating oil
Meanwhile, £4,355 was claimed in one year in the name of the former assembly speaker and DUP MLA Willie Hay for his constituency office's heating oil - the cost of heating his offices increased from £265 over a 10-year period.
Mr Hay's brother-in-law and former office manager has been suspended since Spotlight raised the issue with Mr Hay.
The former speaker now says he cannot comment on the issue as it is now the subject of a police investigation.
The heating oil company who were named as the recipients of the claim told Spotlight that they had not yet been contacted by the police about the issue.
Claim forms
Each MLA is required to sign their own expenses claim forms. But one former Sinn Féin MLA said one expenses claim form for mileage was signed without his knowledge.
Davy Hyland was the Sinn Féin MLA for Newry and Armagh between 2003-2007 before being deselected by the party.
He does not drive and said that the only mileage he would have accrued would be the journey to and from Stormont, where his wife gave him a lift.
Spotlight obtained a copy of an expenses form claiming for 11,500 miles at a cost of almost £5,000.
'Knew nothing'
Mr Hyland told the programme that shortly after he was deselected by the party and became an independent MLA, he received a phone call from the assembly finance team asking him to verify this mileage claim, of almost £5,000, which was about to be paid into Sinn Féin's bank account in west Belfast.
He told them he knew nothing about most of the mileage claimed.
Mr Hyland claimed the form had been signed without his knowledge. He also claimed a senior member of Sinn Féin's finance team then rang him and asked him to agree the expenses.
He said he refused, the claim was never processed, and the money was never transferred into the Sinn Féin bank account
The assembly told Spotlight the claim was never paid out and the assembly's bribery and fraud response plan was initiated.
Sinn Féin said they had no record of such an expenses application, and their records show no monies were drawn down on any such claim.
Mr Hyland was in the assembly for four years. In that time £19,000 was claimed in his name for mileage.
Mr Hyland said he did not use the bulk of the £19,000 of mileage claimed and he would not have knowingly signed off that amount.
Questions were also raised in the programme about Ulster Unionist and SDLP expense claims for services provided by their own parties.
The SDLP claimed £10,000 for each MLA to fund their press office. The rules say the money should have been going to benefit constituents.
The party said "any monies claimed for secretarial expenses or professional advisors... was spent to enhance the service given to constituents".
In one year the UUP claimed £84,000 for "support services".
Investigative Journalist Heather Brooke said these types of claim were "a way of taking money that the public's given to fund legitimate political expenses and it's recycling them into that political party".
Family members employed
The programme also found DUP MLAs employing a number of family members. Three quarters of all DUP MLAs have at least one relative on the pay roll, including eight wives, and eight sons.
Fifty-eight thousand pounds went to members of Robin Newton's family in 2013, who are employed in accordance with assembly rules.
With his own salary on top of that, a total of £106,000 from the assembly went into the Newton family in a year.
In recent years changes have been made to the way the expenses system operates. Money must now be paid to an MLA's individual bank account, rather than to a party account, as had been the case Sinn Féin.
However, Sir Alistair Graham believes that rather than just changing the system, people and parties should be held to account for past issues
"It seems to me that what you require here is a pretty root and branch independent investigation to the arrangements in place," he said.
"If there's potentially been a criminal offence or if there's been a serious breach of the rules, then I think there needs to be proper investigation."
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on December 09, 2015, 11:35:30 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/sinn-fein-expenses-row-caral-ni-chuilin-forgot-to-say-she-paid-relative-11320-30855261.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/sinn-fein-expenses-row-caral-ni-chuilin-forgot-to-say-she-paid-relative-11320-30855261.html)

Culture Minister Caral Ni Chuilin paid her partner's brother thousands of pounds of taxpayers' cash for decorating her office - but repeatedly failed to declare the relationship in Stormont's register of interests.



Sunday Life can reveal that since 2009, the Sinn Fein heavyweight has handed over £11,320 from her office cost expenditure budget to John 'JJ' Magee to decorate her north Belfast office.


Following Sunday Life's revelation, Sinn Fein last night issued a statement saying the minister's failure to declare the family link was an "administrative oversight".

Magee, a joiner by trade who is also a serving Sinn Fein councillor, also received more than £55,000 of taxpayers' cash from other Sinn Fein MLAs for similar work.

He is the brother of Mrs Ni Chuilin's common-law husband Gerard Magee, a Sinn Fein press officer.

But she repeatedly failed to declare this on the Assembly's Register of Interests which state that any relationship by "blood, marriage, or partnership equivalent to marriage" has to be noted.

Section 12 of the register states: "In this section Members should register any family members who benefit directly or indirectly in any way from Office Cost Expenditure."

Her Sinn Fein colleague Fra McCann for example declared on the register than he employed a niece of party colleagues Paul and Alex Maskey as his PA.

However, Culture Minister Caral Ni Chuilin answered "none" on several occasions when asked to list family members who benefit directly or indirectly in any way from her office cost expenditure.

In response to Sunday Life's questions about her failure to say her partner's brother benefited from her office expenditure, Sinn Fein said last night: "This was an administration oversight and one that will be rectified.

"The party has declared publicly that a range of necessary maintenance and refurbishment work on Teach Carney and other Sinn Féin offices has been carried out by JJ Magee and by his construction company over many years.

"The work carried out was to a high standard and represented good value for money and has facilitated Sinn Féin in providing first-class accessible constituency services."

A Sunday Life investigation into JJ Magee's Assembly business contracts show that not only was he paid £11,320 by Caral Ni Chuilin, he pocketed a total of £68,000 of public funds from Sinn Fein over five years.

When we attempted to question the Belfast city councillor about this he told us to "ring the press office" before hanging up the phone.

For the past five years building firm boss JJ Magee has been Sinn Fein's go-to man when it needs construction jobs done at its offices across Belfast.

In 2011 he unsuccessfully stood for election to the Assembly as a Sinn Fein candidate in north Belfast.

But despite failing to make it to Stormont a busy Magee still reaped £68,000 of public funds paid to him by the party.

Sinn Fein's first recorded payment to the joiner-turned politician was in 2009.

That was when Caral Ni Chuilin, who is effectively his sister-in-law, coughed up £5,080 for decorating work at her Antrim Road office.

In 2011 five Sinn Fein MLAs - Paul Maskey, Jennifer McCann, Sue Ramsey, Pat Sheehan and Paul Butler - paid JJ Magee a total of £27,775 for renovations and maintenance.

He was raking it in again during 2012, receiving £15,750 from Gerry Kelly (left), Caral Ni Chuilin, Jennifer McCann and Sue Ramsey for painting and cleaning.

In 2013 Gerry Kelly, Caral Ni Chuilin, Fra McCann, Jennifer McCann, Sue Ramsey and Pat Sheehan paid Magee £11,176 for similar work.

So far this year he has pocketed a further £8,153 from Fra McCann, Rosie McCorley, Pat Sheehan and Sue Ramsey for painting and electrical work.

All of the 31 registered Assembly payments to Magee, which cover five years, were made in the five week period between March 27 and May 1.

Since 2009 he has received £16,560 solely for work carried out at Sinn Fein's north Belfast office at 291 Antrim Road. The two-storey town house is used by both Caral Ni Chuilin and Gerry Kelly.

Sunday Life's revelations about Caral Ni Chuilin's failure to declare she was employing a family member to do work, is the latest expenses controversy to engulf Sinn Fein of late.

Last month BBC's Spotlight programme revealed that the party had paid a research company run by its own finance managers, called Research Services Ireland (RSI), £700,000 of public funds.

One Sinn Féin MLA was reported to have said they had never heard of the company until they saw it on their annual expenses.

It further emerged that Sinn Fein was claiming thousands of pounds in office rent costs on buildings owned by three different cultural societies to which the party has strong links.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 09, 2015, 11:40:13 AM
An Enda loyalist eh Tubbs?


Don't say anything about the glorious leader.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on December 09, 2015, 11:43:48 AM
You can say all you like, I'm not a member of any party.
I just think if you look at all parties, you find the same type of shite - especially at council level.
Unfortunately there are always some who get into politics for their own personal gain (and will try to get that by fair or foul means) over public service.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 09, 2015, 12:07:04 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 09, 2015, 11:43:48 AM
You can say all you like, I'm not a member of any party.
I just think if you look at all parties, you find the same type of shite - especially at council level.
Unfortunately there are always some who get into politics for their own personal gain (and will try to get that by fair or foul means) over public service.

You mean enda? he still probably can't believe he's got away with this for so long. he only took the family seat because it was handed to him.. coining it in now. best little country to cream off expenses.

and tubs - you were compelled to engage in some whatboutery just because...yes, sure..... as certain as John Perry didn't know about that car park - you're not a Fine Gaeler.... ;D




Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 09, 2015, 12:26:31 PM
No wonder the Shinners/Dupes etc didn't want Stormont to collapse recently ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on December 09, 2015, 01:05:13 PM
Conclusions of Moriarty Report

Lowry "secured the winning" of the 1995 mobile licence for O'Brien.
O'Brien made two payments to Lowry in 1996 and 1999 totalling IR£500,000 (GB£147,000 and GB£300,000) and supported a loan of GB£420,000 given to Lowry in 1999, a benefit equivalent to a payment.
Lowry imparted substantive information to O'Brien which was "of significant value and assistance to him in securing the licence".
Lowry bypassed consideration by his Cabinet colleagues and thereby not only influenced, but delivered the result for Esat Digifone.
A US$50,000 donation to Fine Gael was made through Telenor on behalf of Esat Digifone.
Lowry sought to influence a hike in the lease for Marlborough House (Telecom Eireann headquarters) following a request from Mr Dunne. These rent increases would have improperly enriched Dunne, and were deemed to be "profoundly corrupt".
Lowry was criticised for his "cynical and venal abuse of office" and his brazen refusal to acknowledge the impropriety of his financial arrangements with O'Brien and Dunne.

Meanwhile Mick Wallace gets arrested for non payment of fine. Can sit as a TD having not paid VAT but nothing happens over that yet can be arrested for non payment of a fine. Lowry continues to top the polls as an Independent FG and Denis O Brien silences most politicians, the press and throws accusations at the judiciary while standing shoulder to shoulder with our Taoiseach at the NY Stock Exchange. God Bless the Banana Republic.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ashman on December 09, 2015, 01:24:56 PM
Both Lowry and Wallace will each be elected in the spring.  Maybe enough of the people regard these as lovable rogues .
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on December 09, 2015, 02:01:10 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 09, 2015, 01:24:56 PM
Both Lowry and Wallace will each be elected in the spring.  Maybe enough of the people regard these as lovable rogues .

At least Wallace has done the country some service by highlighting the Garda whistleblowing non action and the shady secretive carry on of NAMA. His arrest this morning is purely political policing. Clare Daly arrested for drink driving after having one hot whiskey in the Dail Bar. Coincidence? Catherine Murphy better watch her back.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 09, 2015, 02:03:47 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on December 09, 2015, 02:01:10 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 09, 2015, 01:24:56 PM
Both Lowry and Wallace will each be elected in the spring.  Maybe enough of the people regard these as lovable rogues .

At least Wallace has done the country some service by highlighting the Garda whistleblowing non action and the shady secretive carry on of NAMA. His arrest this morning is purely political policing. Clare Daly arrested for drink driving after having one hot whiskey in the Dail Bar. Coincidence? Catherine Murphy better watch her back.

Nothing like a good smear campaign - you can bet your bottom dollar that Labour "Senator" Mairia Cahill will be front and centre during the next election. I can't think of any other reason for her rapid ascent into politics.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ashman on December 09, 2015, 02:44:53 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on December 09, 2015, 02:01:10 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 09, 2015, 01:24:56 PM
Both Lowry and Wallace will each be elected in the spring.  Maybe enough of the people regard these as lovable rogues .

At least Wallace has done the country some service by highlighting the Garda whistleblowing non action and the shady secretive carry on of NAMA. His arrest this morning is purely political policing. Clare Daly arrested for drink driving after having one hot whiskey in the Dail Bar. Coincidence? Catherine Murphy better watch her back.

To be fair Wallace has not paid the fine and this is normal..

To be honest I think he will benefit from this as he will us the siege mentality thing.

If these things are political policing then they ain't very effective.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on December 09, 2015, 02:46:54 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 09, 2015, 02:44:53 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on December 09, 2015, 02:01:10 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 09, 2015, 01:24:56 PM
Both Lowry and Wallace will each be elected in the spring.  Maybe enough of the people regard these as lovable rogues .

At least Wallace has done the country some service by highlighting the Garda whistleblowing non action and the shady secretive carry on of NAMA. His arrest this morning is purely political policing. Clare Daly arrested for drink driving after having one hot whiskey in the Dail Bar. Coincidence? Catherine Murphy better watch her back.

To be fair Wallace has not paid the fine and this is normal..

To be honest I think he will benefit from this as he will us the siege mentality thing.

If these things are political policing then they ain't very effective.
Then you underestimate Enda Kenny's incompetence. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ashman on December 09, 2015, 03:04:49 PM
Sinn Fein have some operation .   A political industrial complex.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on December 09, 2015, 03:58:44 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 09, 2015, 03:04:49 PM
Sinn Fein have some operation .   A political industrial complex.

They'd want to work on their tactics though. If you want to persuade people to follow your way of thinking, you need to meet them half way, or at least sound reasonable.
There are more "forceful" methods of course, but they didn't work out too well for SF in the past.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 09, 2015, 04:23:16 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 09, 2015, 03:58:44 PM
Quote from: ashman on December 09, 2015, 03:04:49 PM
Sinn Fein have some operation .   A political industrial complex.

They'd want to work on their tactics though. If you want to persuade people to follow your way of thinking, you need to meet them half way, or at least sound reasonable.
There are more "forceful" methods of course, but they didn't work out too well for SF in the past.

Which methods were those? Please tell.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 12, 2015, 11:39:30 PM
Beidh na léinte gorma sàsta leis an pól is déanai.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 18, 2015, 04:52:48 PM
Good to see the government are creating new jobs - if anything we need more ways to process and prosecute citizens.
Well done Fine Gael

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1218/754985-courthouses-jobs-boost/

as an aside - doesn't the doll Frances look like ET with a blonde wig?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 19, 2015, 09:47:34 PM
Na léinte gorma ag dual in àirde arìs - 32%
An Lucht Oibre 9%
SF 19%
FF 17%
Na dreamanna eile 23%.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 22, 2015, 06:44:52 PM
Just like that one in the toilet that won't flush away....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1222/755712-perry-fg-election/

they'll do anything to keep the noses in the trough.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on December 22, 2015, 09:30:49 PM
Heard this guy on Matt Cooper this evening. Cringeworthy stuff. Saying that people had been sending him mass cards when he failed to be selected...

It will be interesting to see if this (3 candidates) costs them a seat.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 23, 2015, 01:36:22 AM
He's got a hell of a brass neck on him. The bad news for FG is that another self-serving politician has bullied his way on to the ticket and could potentially cause them to lose a seat rather than gain one.

He must have forgotten all about his unpaid loans, mileage claims and his illegal hiring policy and believes that the constituents still think of him as a loveable rogue.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 01:41:41 AM
Is it a 3 or 4 seated?
Yer man Perry is the type we need out of politics here in the 26.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 23, 2015, 05:20:28 PM
(http://www.cordatus.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Enda-kenny-telecity-launch-4028-630x441.jpg)

Dear Santa (or Angela)
I've been a good little boy again this year. I've done everyting I've been told. I made sure the peasants have been kept in place and my pals have gotten richer on the back of it.
I've made a mess of things to the degree that it all seems like a lost cause. You have to admit Irish Water was a stroke of genius.
Please please please bring me a bumper election result this year so I can carry on my good work without having to share my toys with Joanie. And a star wars lightsabre to fend off the pesky shinners. Don't give mary lou or gerry anyting because they are very bad.

Enda (age 64)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on December 24, 2015, 05:27:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 23, 2015, 05:20:28 PM
(http://www.cordatus.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Enda-kenny-telecity-launch-4028-630x441.jpg)

Dear Santa (or Angela)
I've been a good little boy again this year. I've done everyting I've been told. I made sure the peasants have been kept in place and my pals have gotten richer on the back of it.
I've made a mess of things to the degree that it all seems like a lost cause. You have to admit Irish Water was a stroke of genius.
Please please please bring me a bumper election result this year so I can carry on my good work without having to share my toys with Joanie. And a star wars lightsabre to fend off the pesky shinners. Don't give mary lou or gerry anyting because they are very bad.

Enda (age 64)

Jaysus he don't look 64. The benefits of doing fcuk all I suppose. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 24, 2015, 05:57:20 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on December 24, 2015, 05:27:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 23, 2015, 05:20:28 PM
(http://www.cordatus.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Enda-kenny-telecity-launch-4028-630x441.jpg)

Dear Santa (or Angela)
I've been a good little boy again this year. I've done everyting I've been told. I made sure the peasants have been kept in place and my pals have gotten richer on the back of it.
I've made a mess of things to the degree that it all seems like a lost cause. You have to admit Irish Water was a stroke of genius.
Please please please bring me a bumper election result this year so I can carry on my good work without having to share my toys with Joanie. And a star wars lightsabre to fend off the pesky shinners. Don't give mary lou or gerry anyting because they are very bad.

Enda (age 64)

Jaysus he don't look 64. The benefits of doing fcuk all I suppose.

Hasn't done a stoke of real work in his lifetime. Just managed to keep his head down and outlast the rest. Spoofer.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Owenmoresider on December 24, 2015, 08:35:15 PM
Give it a rest lads, the same pair of yous spreading bile on this thread all the time, probably the same person and all, you know what these Shinner online trolls are like.

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 01:41:41 AM
Is it a 3 or 4 seated?
Yer man Perry is the type we need out of politics here in the 26.
4 seats in a massive sprawling area, goes from Ballina nearly to Donegal town and to the edge of Cavan town. Know John reasonably well from over the years so I'll not pass comment on the numerous difficulties he's found himself in, but on the convention issue fair play to him taking the party bigwigs through the mill as he has, and showing them up in the process. Ironically if they wanted rid of him the best thing to do it was to get him through on the night or add him straight after (like with Bruton in Dublin), he'd have been in a tight spot to get back with all that's gone on, as it is he's possibly turned things around for himself to a certain extent and certainly has done his hopes of re-election no harm, whether that's a good thing or not is another matter but that's how it goes. Between him and Scanlon (FF) there should be one of them getting in from the south of the county anyway.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 24, 2015, 09:00:02 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on December 24, 2015, 08:35:15 PM
Give it a rest lads, the same pair of yous spreading bile on this thread all the time, probably the same person and all, you know what these Shinner online trolls are like.

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 01:41:41 AM
Is it a 3 or 4 seated?
Yer man Perry is the type we need out of politics here in the 26.
4 seats in a massive sprawling area, goes from Ballina nearly to Donegal town and to the edge of Cavan town. Know John reasonably well from over the years so I'll not pass comment on the numerous difficulties he's found himself in, but on the convention issue fair play to him taking the party bigwigs through the mill as he has, and showing them up in the process. Ironically if they wanted rid of him the best thing to do it was to get him through on the night or add him straight after (like with Bruton in Dublin), he'd have been in a tight spot to get back with all that's gone on, as it is he's possibly turned things around for himself to a certain extent and certainly has done his hopes of re-election no harm, whether that's a good thing or not is another matter but that's how it goes. Between him and Scanlon (FF) there should be one of them getting in from the south of the county anyway.

Sure, don't pass comment on Mr Perry. Sweep that under the carpet eh?
He's a grand fella etc, lets vote him in again. Jesus wept! What is wrong with you people?

I do love how you label people who call out Fine Gael to try deflect their wrongdoings.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Owenmoresider on December 24, 2015, 10:10:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 24, 2015, 09:00:02 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on December 24, 2015, 08:35:15 PM
Give it a rest lads, the same pair of yous spreading bile on this thread all the time, probably the same person and all, you know what these Shinner online trolls are like.

Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2015, 01:41:41 AM
Is it a 3 or 4 seated?
Yer man Perry is the type we need out of politics here in the 26.
4 seats in a massive sprawling area, goes from Ballina nearly to Donegal town and to the edge of Cavan town. Know John reasonably well from over the years so I'll not pass comment on the numerous difficulties he's found himself in, but on the convention issue fair play to him taking the party bigwigs through the mill as he has, and showing them up in the process. Ironically if they wanted rid of him the best thing to do it was to get him through on the night or add him straight after (like with Bruton in Dublin), he'd have been in a tight spot to get back with all that's gone on, as it is he's possibly turned things around for himself to a certain extent and certainly has done his hopes of re-election no harm, whether that's a good thing or not is another matter but that's how it goes. Between him and Scanlon (FF) there should be one of them getting in from the south of the county anyway.

Sure, don't pass comment on Mr Perry. Sweep that under the carpet eh?
He's a grand fella etc, lets vote him in again. Jesus wept! What is wrong with you people?

I do love how you label people who call out Fine Gael to try deflect their wrongdoings.
Well as I know him and his family I'm not going to kick him about the place just to please tin foil hat types like you, but yes he's got into various difficulties in recent years which he could have easily avoided, he's answerable for them no doubt. I haven't and won't vote for him, much less his party, so I'm not going to bat on their behalf, much as you like to portray anyone who doesn't worship at SF's altar as one of them. Your idea of "calling out" is just peddling the usual predictable rants, there's views given here criticising them which are valid and worth making but yours and the other guy is what the  ::) was made for.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 25, 2015, 06:46:29 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on December 24, 2015, 10:10:11 PM
Well as I know him and his family I'm not going to kick him about the place just to please tin foil hat types like you, but yes he's got into various difficulties in recent years which he could have easily avoided, he's answerable for them no doubt. I haven't and won't vote for him, much less his party, so I'm not going to bat on their behalf

If he's a family friend I understand your reluctance to criticise the guy but by your own admission you wouldn't vote for him due to his questionable history. People like Mr Perry don't seem to get it that being unable to handle your private business affairs should really disqualify you from managing the affairs of the public. It's not a sign of a competent official now, is it?

Happy Christmas to all my friends in Fine Gael. You're great.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 27, 2015, 11:21:32 PM
Blue shirts very confident for the General Election - one of their gurus seems to thinkthey might even swing a majorityin the Dàil.
Time to start voting Labour folks!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on December 28, 2015, 07:31:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 27, 2015, 11:21:32 PM
Blue shirts very confident for the General Election - one of their gurus seems to thinkthey might even swing a majorityin the Dàil.
Time to start voting Labour folks!!

JK is just pissing in the wind going again here. Good man but even the totally inexperienced Hopkins has a better chance.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on December 28, 2015, 07:36:01 PM
I know JK hasn't a hope Syfín. I was appealing to the rest of the State. Last thing we want is FG on their own ( or with Lucyloo and 1 or 2 other right wingers assisting).
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Owenmoresider on December 28, 2015, 10:31:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 25, 2015, 06:46:29 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on December 24, 2015, 10:10:11 PM
Well as I know him and his family I'm not going to kick him about the place just to please tin foil hat types like you, but yes he's got into various difficulties in recent years which he could have easily avoided, he's answerable for them no doubt. I haven't and won't vote for him, much less his party, so I'm not going to bat on their behalf

If he's a family friend I understand your reluctance to criticise the guy but by your own admission you wouldn't vote for him due to his questionable history.People like Mr Perry don't seem to get it that being unable to handle your private business affairs should really disqualify you from managing the affairs of the public. It's not a sign of a competent official now, is it?

Happy Christmas to all my friends in Fine Gael. You're great.
Didn't say that at all, wouldn't vote for him as I don't vote for FG, and I'd be on similarly familiar terms with his opposite number in the area anyway.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 29, 2015, 05:50:34 PM
While I hope he recoverers I wonder did Mr Noonan have to stay on a trolley for 24 hours before being seen to?


Minister Noonan underwent medical procedure over Christmas
Minister for Finance Michael Noonan underwent a medical procedure over Christmas after being diagnosed with an infection involving fluid in the chest area.

In a personal statement, Mr Noonan said he was diagnosed two weeks before Christmas.

The minister, who is still in a Dublin hospital, said he is now "well on the mend".

He added that he will be attending Cabinet on 5 January and looks forward to contesting the upcoming general election.

It is the second surgery he has had this year after undergoing a procedure to resolve an eye complaint.

Last year, he had both surgery and radiotherapy to tackle a cancerous sarcoma on his right arm.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on December 29, 2015, 05:56:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 29, 2015, 05:50:34 PM
While I hope he recoverers I wonder did Mr Noonan have to stay on a trolley for 24 hours before being seen to?

I'd say like most from a professional class, he has VHI and went private - can't beat it.

Or maybe he get it done in Adam's private hospital in the States, the one he got a Bertie-Ahern esque whiparound to pay for the flights.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 29, 2015, 06:06:00 PM
Quote from: heffo on December 29, 2015, 05:56:07 PM

Or maybe he get it done in Adam's private hospital in the States,

I didn't know that Gerry owned a hospital in the USA. Maybe he bought one out the of the proceeds of the northern bank robbery that he orchastrated.

;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 14, 2016, 02:39:01 AM
I feel I can lump this Labour story in with Fine Gael as it's a case of government appointed.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tnaiste-uses-littleknown-clause-to-personally-appoint-chairman-of-state-board-34362395.html

So one of Joanie's last acts before her party gets wiped out in the upcoming election is to reward some of her cronies with nice little earners.
Begg, like Fergus Finlay, has managed to get himself a number at Barnardos as well  - that charity seems to have money to burn..

Nothing changes if you vote this lot back in. You just validate their greed.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on January 14, 2016, 10:33:57 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 14, 2016, 02:39:01 AM
I feel I can lump this Labour story in with Fine Gael as it's a case of government appointed.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tnaiste-uses-littleknown-clause-to-personally-appoint-chairman-of-state-board-34362395.html

So one of Joanie's last acts before her party gets wiped out in the upcoming election is to reward some of her cronies with nice little earners.
Begg, like Fergus Finlay, has managed to get himself a number at Barnardos as well  - that charity seems to have money to burn..

Nothing changes if you vote this lot back in. You just validate their greed.

if the Shinners get in, all of these boards will be full of their army of 'community workers'.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 14, 2016, 01:24:03 PM
SF can't get in if they are only fielding 45 candidates.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on January 14, 2016, 02:03:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 14, 2016, 01:24:03 PM
SF can't get in if they are only fielding 45 candidates.

Coalition?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 21, 2016, 11:45:47 AM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/taoiseach-enda-kennys-17-backroom-staff-earn-14m-annually-377357.html

All that money on advisors and he's still an incompetent clown.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 21, 2016, 11:53:06 AM
You do realise thats €80k a year each and he is the taoiseach
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 21, 2016, 01:00:15 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on January 21, 2016, 11:53:06 AM
You do realise thats €80k a year each and he is the taoiseach

As a tax payer I forlornly look for value for money. He's an embarrassment when sent abroad to "represent" us. The least he could do is hire competent advisors. Maybe he should hire more advisors to appoint competent advisors.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 21, 2016, 04:09:49 PM
http://stephendonnelly.ie/the-uncomfortable-truth-about-irish-water/

There are many things about water charges that Fine Gael/Labour would prefer you didn't know. At the top of the list is this: Not one penny of the money they're demanding you pay will be used to run, or to upgrade, the water system.



In fact, even if everyone paid their water bill, every penny of the money would be spent on the admin involved in issuing us with bills.



As it stands, with the number of people currently paying their bills, the introduction of domestic water charges will result in there being about a €25m less available to run the water system than if the charges had not been introduced at all.



Why? Because it costs a lot to collect the money. And it costs a lot to pay for the so-called 'water conservation grants' that arrived in people's accounts this week – a crass pre-election stunt worthy of Fianna Fáil at its worst. And it turns out that the money raised from the water charge is less than these two costs.



Think about that – the people are being asked to pay €271m this year in water charges. That's €160 or €260 per household, depending on whether one or to adults live in the house, and that's if every single person actually pays.

At a time when children are going hungry, when people can't make the rent, when pensioners can't afford to turn the heat on, when parents are scraping together to send their kids back to school, that €260 matters a great deal.

Fine Gael/Labour claim that the money's needed to keep the water flowing but that isn't true. The way they have set this thing up, the money isn't being used to fund the water system – it is being used to fund the administration of billing for water.



Fine Gael is clearly worried about people cottoning on to all of this. At its think-in recently, backbenchers were instructed to attack the Social Democrats' position on water charges as being dishonest – which gives them full marks for irony at least. In fact the Social Democrats' positon isn't dishonest – the numbers have been verified independently by several very able economists and they tell a very clear story.



The numbers are pretty simple; if everyone paid the water charge (and that is a pretty big if), then €271m would be raised. But all those €100m grants we've been receiving cost the State a whopping €166m. On top of that, simply administering the grant costs another €6m.



Water meters are costing at least €44m a year for thr next 15 years. The Government says we need to have meters to improve conservation and detect leaks. It's true that if you put meters in every house you will find the leaks. But if you talk to engineers, you'll find that this isn't actually how they do it. They put in area meters and follow the leaks. It's called targeted detection and it can be done at a fraction of the cost of putting meters into every house. The actual purpose of the meters is to bill you.



Finally there's the cost of maintaining the meters and reading them, chasing you up, sending debt collectors your way and so on. In the industry, this is called the 'cost to serve', there are no data available for what Irish Water's cost is. but if you assume, generously, that it's at the average level for water companies in the UK, it's about €54m. Add it all up and you get a total cost associated with the water charge of €270m. So even if the full €271m was collected, there'd just be €1m left to spend on the water system.



But only half of households have paid the charge. Let's be generous again and assume that only half the water conservation grants have been paid out. If that is the case,  there is actually €25m less available this year to upgrade the water system than if there weren't any water charges at all. You can understand why Fine Gael/Labour would prefer if you didn't know this.



Now let's be clear: We absolutely do need to upgrade the water system and it seems to be happening. Spare capacity in the Dublin region has jumped, boil-water notices are being cancelled and waste-water treatment plants are being fast-tracked. Irish Water may be the equivalent of a public relations cluster bomb but it does appear to be making significant and much-needed progress on the engineering front and should be recognised for that. The blame for the Irish Water fiasco doesn't fall to Irish Water – it falls to Fine Gael/ Labour. Whatever way you cut it, additional money is needed to upgrade the system: €200m for the first few years is proposed, due to rise to €350m from 2017. So if water charges aren't raising the money, where do we get it, without raising taxation?



The answer is in improving the service. I'm not against some of the concept of Irish Water. The central entity is a smart idea. Fianna Fáil has been talking about going back to the local authority model but that is madness. Pooling the inefficient workings of 40 utility operations into one is vital – it creates the opportunity to carry out rigourous reform, which has been absent from the public sector for so long. It creates opportunities to create improvements and savings in technology, procurements, centralising functions and perhaps in voluntary redundancies.



But we need to stop charging people to cover the cost of charging them. It's dumb and insulting. Instead we maintain current Exchequer support for water. We reduce the operating cost base of Irish Water and we reinvest the savings. The €200m a year needed for the next few years requires a cost reduction of just 16%. Scottish Water reduced its cost base by 40% in the first five years of its existence. Moving the €350m a year investment would an additional 13% reduction in costs. Even if the entire amount couldn't be found, it would be far more efficient to make up the difference through central taxation rather than water charges. The cost of the meters and billing for the first 10 years will be at least €1bn – that would cover the entire additional investment requirements for the water system for five years.



Fine Gael/Labour should hold their hands up and accept this fiasco for what it is. But they won't. Instead, they'll put their own reputations ahead of the public good and continue to insist that people pay out hard-earned and badly-needed money for no reason. Then, in a perfect storm of authoritarianism and incompetence, they'll futher invade people's privacy by using new legislation to take people's money at source.



Here's what the Social Democrats are proposing. Water charges should be abolished, as should the conservation grant. The meter rollout should be stopped. A full and open financial review of Irish Water should be conducted to understand what cost savings can be achieved each year and how they can be reinvested in the water system. Irish Water should be reconstituted as a public body, rather than as a commercial semi-state, to ensure it can never be privatised. And the people running and improving our water system should be allowed to get on with the job – which is the only bit of good news in this entire Government-induced, nonsense.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on January 21, 2016, 04:51:18 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on January 21, 2016, 11:53:06 AM
You do realise thats €80k a year each and he is the taoiseach

You do realise there are SEVENTEEN of them!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on January 21, 2016, 05:50:41 PM
At a brief read, Stephen Donnelly's figures don't make sense. 54m to administer in the UK and he expects a similar figure here?  :o

I agree though that the "water conservation" grant is complete bollix. It was simply done to pander to protesters.

Installation of meters is a good idea but we should be using them - people who waste water, wash their car every 2nd day, water their gardens endlessly, etc. should pay more than those who make an effort to conserve.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on January 22, 2016, 09:14:19 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 21, 2016, 05:50:41 PM
At a brief read, Stephen Donnelly's figures don't make sense. 54m to administer in the UK and he expects a similar figure here?  :o

I agree though that the "water conservation" grant is complete bollix. It was simply done to pander to protesters.

Installation of meters is a good idea but we should be using them - people who waste water, wash their car every 2nd day, water their gardens endlessly, etc. should pay more than those who make an effort to conserve.

I could be wrong but believe this figure is the average cost of admin for each of the 28 water companies that serve England, Scotland and Wales.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 22, 2016, 09:31:37 AM
Also what he is talking about are set-up costs rather than enduring, there is a huge difference but why let that get in the way of the anti-water agenda

I still can't get over people against Irish Water, the ONLY way to get on top of the water system in Ireland is a centralised body that brings our water system up to the necessary level to ensure that what we actually produce makes it to the consumer. Water is expensive, treatment, transportation and maintenance are all expensive, just because it falls from the sky doesn't make it any cheaper. The grants are going to cost us millions if not billions in the long run
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 10:15:54 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on January 22, 2016, 09:31:37 AM
Also what he is talking about are set-up costs rather than enduring, there is a huge difference but why let that get in the way of the anti-water agenda

I still can't get over people against Irish Water, the ONLY way to get on top of the water system in Ireland is a centralised body that brings our water system up to the necessary level to ensure that what we actually produce makes it to the consumer. Water is expensive, treatment, transportation and maintenance are all expensive, just because it falls from the sky doesn't make it any cheaper. The grants are going to cost us millions if not billions in the long run

Irish Water protestors are made up of a few different groups. There are some that don't want to pay for anything, there are those who can't afford it and there are those who can afford it but are not willing to fund another quango. I am fortunate to be in the latter group, I can afford it, I have no problem paying for an efficient water system. Irish Water is another super quango. Water treatment and infrastructure improvement are low on the list of priorities of Irish Water. When you see the likes of John Tierney being appointed to front it and look at his track record you know efficiency won't be achieved. When you see Phil Hogan fronting the implementation of Irish Water, when you see contracts being awarded to a company just bought by Denis O Brien at a knock-down price. When you see bonuses being guaranteed irrespective of performance. When you see Union's in the LRC looking for these bonuses when very little has been done. The arrogance of Noonan and Kenny trying to fob off Catherine Murphy and Paul Murphy who ask legitimate questions. You don't get why people are against Irish Water? God bless your innocent soul.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2016, 10:45:57 AM
"Water treatment and infrastructure improvement are low on the list of priorities of Irish Water. "

Is this the case? Improvements have been achieved in places which had shite water for years. What data do you have for this statement?
Irish Water may well have a competent engineering arm, perhaps one that is attached to an overheavy bureaucracy, the solution is to address the latter.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Canalman on January 22, 2016, 10:47:39 AM
The major problem with establishing Irish Water was that at the time it couldn't tell people how much the bills would be . Some people panicked, high figures thrown about.  Into the confusion stepped the lefties and it took off from there.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2016, 10:55:26 AM
The couldn't tell how much the bills would because the government ensured that the minister could come up with a political mumbo jumbo formula. All these free allowances are bollix, they should have charged for the water and if there was concern for families then increase children's allowance.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 11:34:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2016, 10:45:57 AM
"Water treatment and infrastructure improvement are low on the list of priorities of Irish Water. "

Is this the case? Improvements have been achieved in places which had shite water for years. What data do you have for this statement?
Irish Water may well have a competent engineering arm, perhaps one that is attached to an overheavy bureaucracy, the solution is to address the latter.

Salaries and guaranteed bonuses were agreed upon before any realistic idea of revenue was known. Long term contract deals with Siteserve signed sealed and delivered before a bill had been sent out.

Any competent entity would have a vague idea of revenue before agreeing on expenses. Revenue not as much as was hoped, what's their answer? Yes, hand out €100 to all users. The mind boggles with defender's of Irish Water. If they can't address bureaucracy in the HSE what chance of success do u think they'll have with Irish Water. 

And the simpletons that think Irish Water protestors are all lefty loons. Irish Water say 40% haven't paid, probably a lot more than that but either way, doubt they all vote for the likes of Paul Murphy.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2016, 12:15:54 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 11:34:00 AM
Salaries and guaranteed bonuses were agreed upon before any realistic idea of revenue was known. Long term contract deals with Siteserve signed sealed and delivered before a bill had been sent out.

Any competent entity would have a vague idea of revenue before agreeing on expenses. Revenue not as much as was hoped, what's their answer? Yes, hand out €100 to all users. The mind boggles with defender's of Irish Water. If they can't address bureaucracy in the HSE what chance of success do u think they'll have with Irish Water. 

Did you not read my post or perhaps you couldn't understand it.
The "revenue" is a function of water demand, which is fairly predicitable, and the billing model, which is political bollix. There is no sense in which "sales" of water have been disppointing, the recenue is all a function of politics.

QuoteAnd the simpletons that think Irish Water protestors are all lefty loons. Irish Water say 40% haven't paid, probably a lot more than that but either way, doubt they all vote for the likes of Paul Murphy.

Some will vote for other irresonsible parties like SF.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 22, 2016, 12:33:01 PM
As for bonuses being agreed people are entitled to be paid for their work, performance based contracts are exactly what should be handed out, rather than guaranteed increments. And you want to attract competent people to these jobs.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 22, 2016, 01:32:42 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on January 22, 2016, 12:33:01 PM
As for bonuses being agreed people are entitled to be paid for their work, performance based contracts are exactly what should be handed out, rather than guaranteed increments. And you want to attract competent people to these jobs.

Like John Tierney you mean. Check out his track record.

MikeHunt is right. I think people wouldn't have a problem with Irish Water if you knew that it was going to be set up to run efficiently. When you hear that Denis has his paws on these contracts you already know that someone is going to be fleeced somewhere down the line. He doesn't do anything without a nice wedge in it for him (apart from Haiti ;) )
Who else is going to profit down the line?

The general public have been stung a number of times in recent years so you can understand the hesitancy of buying into yet another service that has been privatised. Bin Charges, Tax on your home ring any bells?

The HSE model is a good example of why people don't have much faith in them getting it right.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on January 22, 2016, 04:43:18 PM
So both Mike & Foxy, you "wouldn't have a problem with IW if it were run efficiently"??

Does that mean you're not in favour of abolishing it, simply reforming it??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 22, 2016, 04:47:39 PM
Wonder does running it efficiently mean making all the non paying customers pay their dues and not be sponging off the decent people who pay for everything ;)
I see the Shirts are said to be lining up some sensible Independents in case Labour can't make up the numbers.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 04:56:29 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 22, 2016, 04:43:18 PM
So both Mike & Foxy, you "wouldn't have a problem with IW if it were run efficiently"??

Does that mean you're not in favour of abolishing it, simply reforming it??

Reform, Irish Public Sector, Irish Politicians, Syntax Error, does not compute!!!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 04:58:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2016, 12:15:54 PM

Did you not read my post or perhaps you couldn't understand it.
The "revenue" is a function of water demand, which is fairly predicitable, and the billing model, which is political bollix. There is no sense in which "sales" of water have been disppointing, the recenue is all a function of politics.



Price would be another important factor, something they could never agree on. Christ on a bike.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 05:01:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 22, 2016, 04:47:39 PM
Wonder does running it efficiently mean making all the non paying customers pay their dues and not be sponging off the decent people who pay for everything ;)
I see the Shirts are said to be lining up some sensible Independents in case Labour can't make up the numbers.

Most already pay for it oh wise one, it's called general taxation, they're also dipping into the motor tax. It's the blueshirts that are spinning the lie that people are not paying for water and the gullible keep falling for it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on January 22, 2016, 05:07:42 PM
So all this chat about the opposition being because it was a f*ck up of an implementation (which it undoubtedly has been in many aspects) is nothing more than bluster. When it boils down to it, you simply don't want to pay for either your water or sewerage to be treated.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 06:11:26 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 22, 2016, 05:07:42 PM
So all this chat about the opposition being because it was a f*ck up of an implementation (which it undoubtedly has been in many aspects) is nothing more than bluster. When it boils down to it, you simply don't want to pay for either your water or sewerage to be treated.
Incorrect. I don't want to pay for it twice.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 22, 2016, 06:53:23 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 22, 2016, 05:07:42 PM
So all this chat about the opposition being because it was a f*ck up of an implementation (which it undoubtedly has been in many aspects) is nothing more than bluster. When it boils down to it, you simply don't want to pay for either your water or sewerage to be treated.
The old story with spongers " Someone else can pay for it" >:(
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2016, 06:54:36 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 06:11:26 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 22, 2016, 05:07:42 PM
So all this chat about the opposition being because it was a f*ck up of an implementation (which it undoubtedly has been in many aspects) is nothing more than bluster. When it boils down to it, you simply don't want to pay for either your water or sewerage to be treated.
Incorrect. I don't want to pay for it twice.

You are not paying for it twice. The duly elected government has decided that a proportion of the cost of water will be payable by bill and that any money formerly used for that purpose will be used for a different purpose. If you do not pay, then you are merely delinquent, and going on about paying twice makes you seem silly as well.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 06:58:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 22, 2016, 06:53:23 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 22, 2016, 05:07:42 PM
So all this chat about the opposition being because it was a f*ck up of an implementation (which it undoubtedly has been in many aspects) is nothing more than bluster. When it boils down to it, you simply don't want to pay for either your water or sewerage to be treated.
The old story with spongers " Someone else can pay for it" >:(
Some people cant afford it. Unlike trough eating overpaid public sector workers lile yourself.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 22, 2016, 08:28:34 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 22, 2016, 04:43:18 PM
So both Mike & Foxy, you "wouldn't have a problem with IW if it were run efficiently"??

Does that mean you're not in favour of abolishing it, simply reforming it??

It's current operation is no more than a money making scheme for some and future stranglehold on citizens.




Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 22, 2016, 10:21:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2016, 06:54:36 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 06:11:26 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 22, 2016, 05:07:42 PM
So all this chat about the opposition being because it was a f*ck up of an implementation (which it undoubtedly has been in many aspects) is nothing more than bluster. When it boils down to it, you simply don't want to pay for either your water or sewerage to be treated.
Incorrect. I don't want to pay for it twice.

You are not paying for it twice. The duly elected government has decided that a proportion of the cost of water will be payable by bill and that any money formerly used for that purpose will be used for a different purpose. If you do not pay, then you are merely delinquent, and going on about paying twice makes you seem silly as well.
We people on group schemes ( and those with their own wells) have been paying for water for ever and ever AND we pay the same taxes as those with public water and sewerage.
If SF and the anti water lefties/ eighties/ centrists get into Govt.will we get tax refunds?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 10:35:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2016, 06:54:36 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 06:11:26 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 22, 2016, 05:07:42 PM
So all this chat about the opposition being because it was a f*ck up of an implementation (which it undoubtedly has been in many aspects) is nothing more than bluster. When it boils down to it, you simply don't want to pay for either your water or sewerage to be treated.
Incorrect. I don't want to pay for it twice.

You are not paying for it twice. The duly elected government has decided that a proportion of the cost of water will be payable by bill and that any money formerly used for that purpose will be used for a different purpose. If you do not pay, then you are merely delinquent, and going on about paying twice makes you seem silly as well.
I didn't say I paid it twice. I've decided not to pay for it twice.  I would consider someone paying for something twice as being short a shilling both literally and psychologically or silly as you might call them.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 10:42:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 22, 2016, 10:21:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2016, 06:54:36 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 06:11:26 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 22, 2016, 05:07:42 PM
So all this chat about the opposition being because it was a f*ck up of an implementation (which it undoubtedly has been in many aspects) is nothing more than bluster. When it boils down to it, you simply don't want to pay for either your water or sewerage to be treated.
Incorrect. I don't want to pay for it twice.

You are not paying for it twice. The duly elected government has decided that a proportion of the cost of water will be payable by bill and that any money formerly used for that purpose will be used for a different purpose. If you do not pay, then you are merely delinquent, and going on about paying twice makes you seem silly as well.
We people on group schemes ( and those with their own wells) have been paying for water for ever and ever AND we pay the same taxes as those with public water and sewerage.
If SF and the anti water lefties/ eighties/ centrists get into Govt.will we get tax refunds?

You're a public sector worker looking for a tax rebate? Good Rossfan. Any room in that trough?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2016, 10:48:03 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 10:35:26 PM
I didn't say I paid it twice. I've decided not to pay for it twice.  I would consider someone paying for something twice as being short a shilling both literally and psychologically or silly as you might call them.

You are not paying for it twice. Repeating it again and again will not make it so, it just looks silly.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 10:50:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2016, 10:48:03 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 10:35:26 PM
I didn't say I paid it twice. I've decided not to pay for it twice.  I would consider someone paying for something twice as being short a shilling both literally and psychologically or silly as you might call them.

You are not paying for it twice. Repeating it again and again will not make it so, it just looks silly.
Correct, I am not paying for it twice. Once is plenty. Glad we agree.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2016, 10:56:03 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 10:50:48 PM
Correct, I am not paying for it twice. Once is plenty. Glad we agree.

More likely you are stealing it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 22, 2016, 10:59:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2016, 10:56:03 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 10:50:48 PM
Correct, I am not paying for it twice. Once is plenty. Glad we agree.

More likely you are stealing it.
Wait till the spongers get the interest and penalties added...., ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 23, 2016, 12:22:53 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2016, 10:56:03 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 22, 2016, 10:50:48 PM
Correct, I am not paying for it twice. Once is plenty. Glad we agree.

More likely you are stealing it.

If I pay for something then I am not stealing it. However, if you pay for something twice then you are the victim of stealing. Be vigilant and keep your eyes and ears open at all times. Fools and their money etc.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on January 23, 2016, 12:56:49 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 23, 2016, 12:22:53 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2016, 10:56:03 PM
More likely you are stealing it.

If I pay for something then I am not stealing it. However, if you pay for something twice then you are the victim of stealing. Be vigilant and keep your eyes and ears open at all times. Fools and their money etc.

If you go on a plane, you used to get breakfast included, now you don't. If you now take a breakfast and don't pay for it you are stealing. You used to have water paid for by other taxes, now you don't. If you now take water and don't pay for it you are stealing. Theft, pure and simple. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on January 23, 2016, 12:59:54 AM
QuoteThere are some that don't want to pay for anything, there are those who can't afford it and there are those who can afford it but are not willing to fund another quango. I am fortunate to be in the latter group, I can afford it, I have no problem paying for an efficient water system.


So this statement was just bullshit to make yourself sound reasonable, mike?? Fact is IW could have been set up in the most efficient way possible and you'd still feel like you shouldn't have to pay
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ashman on January 23, 2016, 09:13:59 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 23, 2016, 12:59:54 AM
QuoteThere are some that don't want to pay for anything, there are those who can't afford it and there are those who can afford it but are not willing to fund another quango. I am fortunate to be in the latter group, I can afford it, I have no problem paying for an efficient water system.


So this statement was just bullshit to make yourself sound reasonable, mike?? Fact is IW could have been set up in the most efficient way possible and you'd still feel like you shouldn't have to pay

Never ceases to amaze me that hundreds of thousands were whipped in to a frenzy over water charges and household tax .  However no real organised anger over the health service and of late the housing problem.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on January 23, 2016, 10:45:07 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 23, 2016, 09:13:59 AM
Never ceases to amaze me that hundreds of thousands were whipped in to a frenzy over water charges and household tax .  However no real organised anger over the health service and of late the housing problem.

In this country so called "left wing" parties spend their time trying to deny the State revenue instead of ensuring that it can provide services that lest fortunate people need.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on January 23, 2016, 11:41:41 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 23, 2016, 09:13:59 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 23, 2016, 12:59:54 AM
QuoteThere are some that don't want to pay for anything, there are those who can't afford it and there are those who can afford it but are not willing to fund another quango. I am fortunate to be in the latter group, I can afford it, I have no problem paying for an efficient water system.


So this statement was just bullshit to make yourself sound reasonable, mike?? Fact is IW could have been set up in the most efficient way possible and you'd still feel like you shouldn't have to pay

Never ceases to amaze me that hundreds of thousands were whipped in to a frenzy over water charges and household tax .  However no real organised anger over the health service and of late the housing problem.

Agreed. In general, things like the health service and homelessness don't affect us personally on a regular basis so we don't care
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on January 23, 2016, 11:44:41 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 23, 2016, 11:41:41 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 23, 2016, 09:13:59 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 23, 2016, 12:59:54 AM
QuoteThere are some that don't want to pay for anything, there are those who can't afford it and there are those who can afford it but are not willing to fund another quango. I am fortunate to be in the latter group, I can afford it, I have no problem paying for an efficient water system.


So this statement was just bullshit to make yourself sound reasonable, mike?? Fact is IW could have been set up in the most efficient way possible and you'd still feel like you shouldn't have to pay

Never ceases to amaze me that hundreds of thousands were whipped in to a frenzy over water charges and household tax .  However no real organised anger over the health service and of late the housing problem.

Agreed. In general, things like the health service and homelessness don't affect us personally on a regular basis so we don't care

I'm not sure that people do not care, if only because we all have relatives and we all get old and sick ourselves. Unfortunately the politicians are almost all useless without exception and it is difficult to see how these things can be fixed even if you do care.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 23, 2016, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 23, 2016, 09:13:59 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 23, 2016, 12:59:54 AM
QuoteThere are some that don't want to pay for anything, there are those who can't afford it and there are those who can afford it but are not willing to fund another quango. I am fortunate to be in the latter group, I can afford it, I have no problem paying for an efficient water system.


So this statement was just bullshit to make yourself sound reasonable, mike?? Fact is IW could have been set up in the most efficient way possible and you'd still feel like you shouldn't have to pay

Never ceases to amaze me that hundreds of thousands were whipped in to a frenzy over water charges and household tax .  However no real organised anger over the health service and of late the housing problem.

+1.
And the 23% VAT rate which must cost even the poorest households € 2 to 3k per annum.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on January 23, 2016, 11:57:41 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 23, 2016, 11:46:22 AM
+1.
And the 23% VAT rate which must cost even the poorest households € 2 to 3k per annum.

Perhaps, but remember that many expenditures do not attract this rate, food  and children's clothes are zero %, while utilities etc are 13% and these kind of things make up a large part of family expenditure, 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on January 23, 2016, 03:09:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 23, 2016, 11:44:41 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 23, 2016, 11:41:41 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 23, 2016, 09:13:59 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 23, 2016, 12:59:54 AM
QuoteThere are some that don't want to pay for anything, there are those who can't afford it and there are those who can afford it but are not willing to fund another quango. I am fortunate to be in the latter group, I can afford it, I have no problem paying for an efficient water system.


So this statement was just bullshit to make yourself sound reasonable, mike?? Fact is IW could have been set up in the most efficient way possible and you'd still feel like you shouldn't have to pay

Never ceases to amaze me that hundreds of thousands were whipped in to a frenzy over water charges and household tax .  However no real organised anger over the health service and of late the housing problem.

Agreed. In general, things like the health service and homelessness don't affect us personally on a regular basis so we don't care

I'm not sure that people do not care, if only because we all have relatives and we all get old and sick ourselves. Unfortunately the politicians are almost all useless without exception and it is difficult to see how these things can be fixed even if you do care.

True, it's probably not a matter of not caring but more that these issues aren't as real and tangible as a bill coming through your door
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 23, 2016, 03:40:34 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 23, 2016, 12:59:54 AMt
QuoteThere are some that don't want to pay for anything, there are those who can't afford it and there are those who can afford it but are not willing to fund another quango. I am fortunate to be in the latter group, I can afford it, I have no problem paying for an efficient water system.


So this statement was just bullshit to make yourself sound reasonable, mike?? Fact is IW could have been set up in the most efficient way possible and you'd still feel like you shouldn't have to pay
Incorrect again. Bit of a pattern with you. I am already paying for my water.  If they need extra then fine I will pay. However this extra money they are looking for is currently going to the likes of John Tierney and Dennis O Brien.  This is not fine with me hence my refusal to pay.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 23, 2016, 07:03:59 PM
Bad turn outs for the anti water goons it seems ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on January 23, 2016, 07:59:01 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 23, 2016, 03:40:34 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 23, 2016, 12:59:54 AMt
QuoteThere are some that don't want to pay for anything, there are those who can't afford it and there are those who can afford it but are not willing to fund another quango. I am fortunate to be in the latter group, I can afford it, I have no problem paying for an efficient water system.


So this statement was just bullshit to make yourself sound reasonable, mike?? Fact is IW could have been set up in the most efficient way possible and you'd still feel like you shouldn't have to pay
Incorrect again. Bit of a pattern with you. I am already paying for my water.  If they need extra then fine I will pay. However this extra money they are looking for is currently going to the likes of John Tierney and Dennis O Brien.  This is not fine with me hence my refusal to pay.

You said previously you'd prefer to see IW privatised, is that still the case? Or am I incorrect on that also?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 23, 2016, 08:28:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 23, 2016, 07:03:59 PM
Bad turn outs for the anti water goons it seems ;)
Anti water? Not surprised there'd be a low turnout at an anti water march. Was it in Boyle?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 24, 2016, 04:27:47 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 23, 2016, 08:28:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 23, 2016, 07:03:59 PM
Bad turn outs for the anti water goons it seems ;)
Anti water? Not surprised there'd be a low turnout at an anti water march. Was it in Boyle?

That would be the anti-bathing crowd.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 25, 2016, 01:49:51 AM
Anyone think that Enda is delaying naming the date to minimise opportunity for others to challenge him to a debate?

Would love to see him on a debate platform without a script for 2 hours. Comedy gold.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on January 25, 2016, 01:58:25 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 23, 2016, 07:03:59 PM
Bad turn outs for the anti water goons it seems ;)

More paid in for the FBD League final..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 25, 2016, 02:54:29 AM
Quote from: Syferus on January 25, 2016, 01:58:25 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 23, 2016, 07:03:59 PM
Bad turn outs for the anti water goons it seems ;)

More paid in for the FBD League final..
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 25, 2016, 10:30:26 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 25, 2016, 01:49:51 AM
Anyone think that Enda is delaying naming the date to minimise opportunity for others to challenge him to a debate?

Would love to see him on a debate platform without a script for 2 hours. Comedy gold.
He was unleashed on RTE yesterday. Abolishing USC and reducing inheritance tax. Bond holders paid, no patients on trolleys, homelessness eradicated?  At least when Fianna Fail were giving money away there was some evidence that the money was there. Paddy economics again. Blaming Fianna Fail and then implementing the same policies.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ashman on January 25, 2016, 10:21:57 PM
Ffs the water bums are gas .  Objecting to pay for a utility .  Amazing that such anger was wasted on something so small.  Pity it could not have channeled the energy towards the A& E crisis or waiting lists.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 25, 2016, 11:16:43 PM
Quote from: ashman on January 25, 2016, 10:21:57 PM
Ffs the water bums are gas .  Objecting to pay for a utility .  Amazing that such anger was wasted on something so small.  Pity it could not have channeled the energy towards the A& E crisis or waiting lists.

Only amazing to the ignorant.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 25, 2016, 11:29:17 PM
Quote from: ashman on January 25, 2016, 10:21:57 PM
Ffs the water bums are gas .  Objecting to pay for a utility .  Amazing that such anger was wasted on something so small.  Pity it could not have channeled the energy towards the A& E crisis or waiting lists.
+1 + Housing crisis.
Anti water charge yokes are some effin goons alright.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 26, 2016, 03:43:55 PM
Our dear leader refusing to rule out doing business with a man who a judge ruled; had sold off state assets for his own and another man's private gain at the cost of the tax payer. At least Varadkar had the cojones to speak the truth.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/enda-kenny-and-joan-burton-refuse-to-rule-out-michael-lowry-deal-377994.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on January 26, 2016, 10:52:25 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 26, 2016, 03:43:55 PM
Our dear leader refusing to rule out doing business with a man who a judge ruled; had sold off state assets for his own and another man's private gain at the cost of the tax payer. At least Varadkar had the cojones to speak the truth.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/enda-kenny-and-joan-burton-refuse-to-rule-out-michael-lowry-deal-377994.html

If I had a choice of doing business with Lowry or Slab I know who I'd choose.

If I had a choice of Lowry or the rapists in the 'safe houses' I know who I'd choose too.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ashman on January 26, 2016, 11:55:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 25, 2016, 11:29:17 PM
Quote from: ashman on January 25, 2016, 10:21:57 PM
Ffs the water bums are gas .  Objecting to pay for a utility .  Amazing that such anger was wasted on something so small.  Pity it could not have channeled the energy towards the A& E crisis or waiting lists.
+1 + Housing crisis.
Anti water charge yokes are some effin goons alright.

A f**king national embarrassment tbh .  Ditto the property tax . 

Largely socialists objecting to what is seen as staples in European social democracies.

We don't have any political ideology in this country. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2016, 02:47:59 AM
(http://i65.tinypic.com/2n72o1c.jpg)

Caption competition??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 27, 2016, 09:04:26 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 26, 2016, 11:55:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 25, 2016, 11:29:17 PM
Quote from: ashman on January 25, 2016, 10:21:57 PM
Ffs the water bums are gas .  Objecting to pay for a utility .  Amazing that such anger was wasted on something so small.  Pity it could not have channeled the energy towards the A& E crisis or waiting lists.
+1 + Housing crisis.
Anti water charge yokes are some effin goons alright.

A f**king national embarrassment tbh .  Ditto the property tax . 

Largely socialists objecting to what is seen as staples in European social democracies.

We don't have any political ideology in this country.

Where do you stand on Dennis O Brien getting massive write downs on his debt? IBRC/FG then sell a state asset at a knock-down price to the same man (can't pay his debts but can purchase a company) and then award a state contract to that company. And you complain about people who decide not to fund this fiasco.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ashman on January 27, 2016, 09:19:32 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 27, 2016, 09:04:26 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 26, 2016, 11:55:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 25, 2016, 11:29:17 PM
Quote from: ashman on January 25, 2016, 10:21:57 PM
Ffs the water bums are gas .  Objecting to pay for a utility .  Amazing that such anger was wasted on something so small.  Pity it could not have channeled the energy towards the A& E crisis or waiting lists.
+1 + Housing crisis.
Anti water charge yokes are some effin goons alright.

A f**king national embarrassment tbh .  Ditto the property tax . 

Largely socialists objecting to what is seen as staples in European social democracies.

We don't have any political ideology in this country.

The anti was thing was big even before siteserv got any of the contracts.

Where do you stand on Dennis O Brien getting massive write downs on his debt? IBRC/FG then sell a state asset at a knock-down price to the same man (can't pay his debts but can purchase a company) and then award a state contract to that company. And you complain about people who decide not to fund this fiasco.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on January 27, 2016, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 26, 2016, 03:43:55 PM
Our dear leader refusing to rule out doing business with a man who a judge ruled; had sold off state assets for his own and another man's private gain at the cost of the tax payer. At least Varadkar had the cojones to speak the truth.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/enda-kenny-and-joan-burton-refuse-to-rule-out-michael-lowry-deal-377994.html

I wouldn't be happy if the next govt are beholding to one or two independents and certainly not to Lowry. The fact that he tops the poll in North Tipp (not to mention "team Lowry" who run in the local elections) is a serious indictment on us as an electorate
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 27, 2016, 10:06:32 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 27, 2016, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 26, 2016, 03:43:55 PM
Our dear leader refusing to rule out doing business with a man who a judge ruled; had sold off state assets for his own and another man's private gain at the cost of the tax payer. At least Varadkar had the cojones to speak the truth.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/enda-kenny-and-joan-burton-refuse-to-rule-out-michael-lowry-deal-377994.html

I wouldn't be happy if the next govt are beholding to one or two independents and certainly not to Lowry. The fact that he tops the poll in North Tipp (not to mention "team Lowry" who run in the local elections) is a serious indictment on us as an electorate
One of the downsides of freedom and democracy is that we can vote for who we like.
Better than the alternative systems though.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 27, 2016, 10:09:54 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 27, 2016, 09:19:32 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 27, 2016, 09:04:26 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 26, 2016, 11:55:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 25, 2016, 11:29:17 PM
Quote from: ashman on January 25, 2016, 10:21:57 PM
Ffs the water bums are gas .  Objecting to pay for a utility .  Amazing that such anger was wasted on something so small.  Pity it could not have channeled the energy towards the A& E crisis or waiting lists.
+1 + Housing crisis.
Anti water charge yokes are some effin goons alright.

A f**king national embarrassment tbh .  Ditto the property tax . 

Largely socialists objecting to what is seen as staples in European social democracies.

We don't have any political ideology in this country.

The anti was thing was big even before siteserv got any of the contracts.

Where do you stand on Dennis O Brien getting massive write downs on his debt? IBRC/FG then sell a state asset at a knock-down price to the same man (can't pay his debts but can purchase a company) and then award a state contract to that company. And you complain about people who decide not to fund this fiasco.

Your silence on the awarding of contracts tells me all I need to know. If you think water protestors should pay up do you not agree that Denis O Brien should pay his debts also?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on January 27, 2016, 10:23:21 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 27, 2016, 09:04:26 AM
Where do you stand on Dennis O Brien getting massive write downs on his debt? IBRC/FG then sell a state asset at a knock-down price to the same man (can't pay his debts but can purchase a company) and then award a state contract to that company. And you complain about people who decide not to fund this fiasco.

Which Denis O'Brien debt are you talking about?
Siteserv was a construction company that weny bust in the boom, like many more, but had some good people. It wasn't worth anything, but could become a success if taken over by someone with the resources to recapitalise it. 

Not at all like someone deliberately using public water and refusing to pay their bill.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ashman on January 27, 2016, 10:39:19 AM
Unfortunately the dice is loaded in favour of companies in these situations.  The whole limited liability thing can be bloody unpalatable at times but that is how company law goes.

The protesters had a convenient boogie man to sustain the protests and that is fair enough.

However there is a lot more things in this country I don't like but I still pay my taxes and statutory bills.   

That said I would support a grassroots non political movement to address problems in health service.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2016, 11:43:30 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 27, 2016, 10:39:19 AM
Unfortunately the dice is loaded in favour of companies in these situations.  The whole limited liability thing can be bloody unpalatable at times but that is how company law goes.


ah shure that's grand so. nothing to see here folks

I believe in happy co-incidences too, enjoy your 100 million writeoff.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2016, 11:45:45 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 27, 2016, 10:23:21 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 27, 2016, 09:04:26 AM
Where do you stand on Dennis O Brien getting massive write downs on his debt? IBRC/FG then sell a state asset at a knock-down price to the same man (can't pay his debts but can purchase a company) and then award a state contract to that company. And you complain about people who decide not to fund this fiasco.

Which Denis O'Brien debt are you talking about?
Siteserv was a construction company that weny bust in the boom, like many more, but had some good people. It wasn't worth anything, but could become a success if taken over by someone with the resources to recapitalise it. 

Not at all like someone deliberately using public water and refusing to pay their bill.

Exactly. Should make them die of thirst. Peasants.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 27, 2016, 11:51:18 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 27, 2016, 10:39:19 AM
Unfortunately the dice is loaded in favour of companies in these situations.  The whole limited liability thing can be bloody unpalatable at times but that is how company law goes.

The protesters had a convenient boogie man to sustain the protests and that is fair enough.

However there is a lot more things in this country I don't like but I still pay my taxes and statutory bills.   

That said I would support a grassroots non political movement to address problems in health service.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Limited Liability. Denis O Brien controlled companies got massive write downs on it's debt. Ireland Inc were borrowing at 6% or 7% and effectively lending it to DOB at 1.5% . Who was making up the shortfall? Not only do they give him cheap interest rates, they also award contracts to a company he recently bought. I just can't fathom how someone who is unable to service his debt is able to go out and purchase a company.

I think what you're trying to say is that it's ok for the rich man to not pay his debts but the ordinary man has to. Denis O Brien is entitled to act in his best interests, my problem is with the people that facilitate his actions, ie the govt. To think your amazement is directed to non-payers of Water Charges is typical Paddy, don't dare complain, bow down to your masters. We get what we vote for I suppose.

Oh and the "boogie" man is quite real, he's dancing in delight.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 27, 2016, 12:05:45 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 27, 2016, 11:51:18 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 27, 2016, 10:39:19 AM
Unfortunately the dice is loaded in favour of companies in these situations.  The whole limited liability thing can be bloody unpalatable at times but that is how company law goes.

The protesters had a convenient boogie man to sustain the protests and that is fair enough.

However there is a lot more things in this country I don't like but I still pay my taxes and statutory bills.   

That said I would support a grassroots non political movement to address problems in health service.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Limited Liability. Denis O Brien controlled companies got massive write downs on it's debt. Ireland Inc were borrowing at 6% or 7% and effectively lending it to DOB at 1.5% . Who was making up the shortfall? Not only do they give him cheap interest rates, they also award contracts to a company he recently bought. I just can't fathom how someone who is unable to service his debt is able to go out and purchase a company.

I think what you're trying to say is that it's ok for the rich man to not pay his debts but the ordinary man has to. Denis O Brien is entitled to act in his best interests, my problem is with the people that facilitate his actions, ie the govt. To think your amazement is directed to non-payers of Water Charges is typical Paddy, don't dare complain, bow down to your masters. We get what we vote for I suppose.

Oh and the "boogie" man is quite real, he's dancing in delight.

It's the same slave mentality that allowed the brits to lord it for centurys. Ash, armaniac etc are only happy to be kneeling lickspittles - must be in their bloodline.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 27, 2016, 12:12:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 27, 2016, 10:23:21 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 27, 2016, 09:04:26 AM
Where do you stand on Dennis O Brien getting massive write downs on his debt? IBRC/FG then sell a state asset at a knock-down price to the same man (can't pay his debts but can purchase a company) and then award a state contract to that company. And you complain about people who decide not to fund this fiasco.

Which Denis O'Brien debt are you talking about?
Siteserv was a construction company that weny bust in the boom, like many more, but had some good people. It wasn't worth anything, but could become a success if taken over by someone with the resources to recapitalise it. 

Not at all like someone deliberately using public water and refusing to pay their bill.

Owners of an INSOLVENT company were given 5 million of taxpayers money as a sweetener to sell. This company was then bought by Denis O Brien (who it appears was unable to service his debt at the same time). State contracts were awarded to this company afterwards. Higher bids were received and conveniently turned down. Siteserve was capitalised by the taxpayer but it's not the taxpayer who benefits from profits. Penny starting to drop with you yet?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ashman on January 28, 2016, 10:49:08 PM
Mike

Unfortunately that is the way the world works. If you owe the bank a few thousand you are fcukwis if you owe them millions the bank is fcuked.

Banks restructure corporate loans based on ability to pay .  Bottom line is that the Siteserv boys held out for a deal.  In these cases I bet the colleteral wasn't great. 

Again I don't like this much either and ideally I "d rather not pay fees for water but these are statutory charges voted by the national parliament .   
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ashman on January 28, 2016, 10:52:02 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 27, 2016, 12:05:45 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 27, 2016, 11:51:18 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 27, 2016, 10:39:19 AM
Unfortunately the dice is loaded in favour of companies in these situations.  The whole limited liability thing can be bloody unpalatable at times but that is how company law goes.

The protesters had a convenient boogie man to sustain the protests and that is fair enough.

However there is a lot more things in this country I don't like but I still pay my taxes and statutory bills.   

That said I would support a grassroots non political movement to address problems in health service.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Limited Liability. Denis O Brien controlled companies got massive write downs on it's debt. Ireland Inc were borrowing at 6% or 7% and effectively lending it to DOB at 1.5% . Who was making up the shortfall? Not only do they give him cheap interest rates, they also award contracts to a company he recently bought. I just can't fathom how someone who is unable to service his debt is able to go out and purchase a company.

I think what you're trying to say is that it's ok for the rich man to not pay his debts but the ordinary man has to. Denis O Brien is entitled to act in his best interests, my problem is with the people that facilitate his actions, ie the govt. To think your amazement is directed to non-payers of Water Charges is typical Paddy, don't dare complain, bow down to your masters. We get what we vote for I suppose.

Oh and the "boogie" man is quite real, he's dancing in delight.

It's the same slave mentality that allowed the brits to lord it for centurys. Ash, armaniac etc are only happy to be kneeling lickspittles - must be in their bloodline.


Snarl , growl , gnarl. !!!!
I am a hard Cnut ; look at my tattoos : gnrrrrrrrrl


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on January 28, 2016, 11:09:47 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 27, 2016, 10:06:32 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 27, 2016, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on January 26, 2016, 03:43:55 PM
Our dear leader refusing to rule out doing business with a man who a judge ruled; had sold off state assets for his own and another man's private gain at the cost of the tax payer. At least Varadkar had the cojones to speak the truth.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/enda-kenny-and-joan-burton-refuse-to-rule-out-michael-lowry-deal-377994.html

I wouldn't be happy if the next govt are beholding to one or two independents and certainly not to Lowry. The fact that he tops the poll in North Tipp (not to mention "team Lowry" who run in the local elections) is a serious indictment on us as an electorate
One of the downsides of freedom and democracy is that we can vote for who we like.
Better than the alternative systems though.

That's a cop out Ross, Lowry is a crook as bad if not worse than Charlie, Bertie, Lawlor, etc.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 28, 2016, 11:21:25 PM
Of course he is but the good people of Tipp have the right to vote for whom so ever they wish and can't be forced to only vote for peoplewe approve of.
That's democracy.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on January 28, 2016, 11:28:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2016, 11:21:25 PM
Of course he is but the good people of Tipp have the right to vote for whom so ever they wish and can't be forced to only vote for peoplewe approve of.
That's democracy.

That's self-interest on the part of the electorate
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 29, 2016, 01:14:58 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 28, 2016, 10:49:08 PM
Mike

Unfortunately that is the way the world works. If you owe the bank a few thousand you are fcukwis if you owe them millions the bank is fcuked.

Banks restructure corporate loans based on ability to pay .  Bottom line is that the Siteserv boys held out for a deal.  In these cases I bet the colleteral wasn't great. 

Again I don't like this much either and ideally I "d rather not pay fees for water but these are statutory charges voted by the national parliament .

So you do what you're told like a good little boy and don't even question it.
I think I proved my point.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on January 29, 2016, 09:03:01 AM
Quote from: ashman on January 28, 2016, 10:49:08 PM
Mike

Unfortunately that is the way the world works. If you owe the bank a few thousand you are fcukwis if you owe them millions the bank is fcuked.

Banks restructure corporate loans based on ability to pay .  Bottom line is that the Siteserv boys held out for a deal.  In these cases I bet the colleteral wasn't great. 

Again I don't like this much either and ideally I "d rather not pay fees for water but these are statutory charges voted by the national parliament .

No that's not the way Capitalism works, it's the way it works in Ireland. The company was insolvent. Owners were given 5m of tax payers money to sell to a certain party. This company was then given state contracts. Now if "ability to pay" is taken into account, would they not ask how can you purchase a company if you are not able to finance your current debt? If I wasn't paying my mortgage and went in for a second one what do you think the bank would say to me?  Now if you think this is all above board I would advise you to read the Moriarty Report, see which party was in power, see who was awarded a t valuable state contract and read the judge's findings and conclusions. Similarities between it and Siteserve are uncanny. I heard the Irish electorate being described as cap doffing subservient yokels and it's hard to disagree with this description.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on February 03, 2016, 02:08:50 PM
New CSO figures yesterday, unemployment at 8.6%, down from 10.1% this time last year and well below the European average of 10.9%.
Net migration expected before the end of 2016 which is some going when you consider the baseline of people who go travelling for a couple of years in their mid-20s
Good to see and hardly surprising that a day later they're announcing the election
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 03, 2016, 02:18:45 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 28, 2016, 11:28:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 28, 2016, 11:21:25 PM
Of course he is but the good people of Tipp have the right to vote for whom so ever they wish and can't be forced to only vote for peoplewe approve of.
That's democracy.

That's self-interest on the part of the electorate

Yes it is. But in fairness, would you trust a national government of any hue at this stage? It's only natural that people hang with the lad that they think will help them.

I'll not vote Lowry, in fact I'll hold the pencil 8 inches above the page in case I accidentally scratch any sort of symbol in his box. But I can see why Parish Pump politics are popular when the sense is that the government is made up of paris pump politics anyway. Might as well have 'one of our own'.

Alan Kelly is trying this too, but he is deeply unpopular in his image. I'm almost leaning towards him losing his seat in Tipp. (there is no more North Tipp constituency).
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Declan on February 03, 2016, 04:14:16 PM
QuoteAlan Kelly is trying this too, but he is deeply unpopular in his image. I'm almost leaning towards him losing his seat in Tipp. (there is no more North Tipp constituency).

If that happens where will he go to get his power fix I wonder?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 03, 2016, 04:37:12 PM
Don't know. Maybe back on the council, and he can take photos with fixed footpaths. 2 days after the announcement about First Data in Nenagh, a leaflet was dropped in our door with his picture and a big dopey head on him with the First Data logo in his hands. Standing in a Field in Nenagh. Ditto for the Silvermines. Funnily enough no picture with the people in Borrisoleigh who lost their job at the same time in the C&C bottling plant.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 05, 2016, 01:18:51 PM
Fine Gael finally prove beyond a reasonable doubt that any perceived economic recovery is not down to them. After RTE confirmed that FG's sums were way off, how could we possibly expect them to run an economy if they can't count. Shocking incompetency again. I couldn't believe there was absolutely nothing on the papers about it this morning. To listen to Kenny spluttering aboslute rubbish on Radio 1 this morning. The interviewer actually felt sorry for him and didn't crucify him. Embarrassing stuff from FG. Having SF correct you on your maths must be the biggest kick in the nuts possible.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 05, 2016, 01:42:18 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 05, 2016, 01:18:51 PM
Fine Gael finally prove beyond a reasonable doubt that any perceived economic recovery is not down to them. After RTE confirmed that FG's sums were way off, how could we possibly expect them to run an economy if they can't count. Shocking incompetency again. I couldn't believe there was absolutely nothing on the papers about it this morning. To listen to Kenny spluttering aboslute rubbish on Radio 1 this morning. The interviewer actually felt sorry for him and didn't crucify him. Embarrassing stuff from FG. Having SF correct you on your maths must be the biggest kick in the nuts possible.

I'm sure FG can count, they were just trying out the usual political bullshit and have been called out on it, which is a good thing. They were called out partly because of the Fiscal council which they had set up, they made the rule change but keep on fouling!

If the tone of the campaigns is exposing double counting bullshit, then so much the better.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 05, 2016, 04:47:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 05, 2016, 01:42:18 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 05, 2016, 01:18:51 PM
Fine Gael finally prove beyond a reasonable doubt that any perceived economic recovery is not down to them. After RTE confirmed that FG's sums were way off, how could we possibly expect them to run an economy if they can't count. Shocking incompetency again. I couldn't believe there was absolutely nothing on the papers about it this morning. To listen to Kenny spluttering aboslute rubbish on Radio 1 this morning. The interviewer actually felt sorry for him and didn't crucify him. Embarrassing stuff from FG. Having SF correct you on your maths must be the biggest kick in the nuts possible.

I'm sure FG can count, they were just trying out the usual political bullshit and have been called out on it, which is a good thing. They were called out partly because of the Fiscal council which they had set up, they made the rule change but keep on fouling!

If the tone of the campaigns is exposing double counting bullshit, then so much the better.

I wouldn't be as confident as you that they can count. Think I heard Enda mention cutting taxes so more nurses and doctors can be hired. I will have to listen to it again but it was on Morning Ireland. Whoever was interviewing really went easy on him, u could nearly hear it in his voice when asking Kenny questions, twas like a teacher questioning a child who had just got caught stealing.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 05, 2016, 05:41:47 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 05, 2016, 04:47:10 PM
I wouldn't be as confident as you that they can count.

I don't think politicans are stupid, I think they are duplicitious.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 05, 2016, 06:27:22 PM
Gerry was doing some awful spluttering when he was trying to explain how FG were wrong ::)
Would be some craic if him and Kenny were debating Financial matters ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 05, 2016, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2016, 06:27:22 PM
Gerry was doing some awful spluttering when he was trying to explain how FG were wrong ::)
Would be some craic if him and Kenny were debating Financial matters ;D

Enda doesn't do debates anymore does he?

Calls the shortest election campaign to minimise the amount of time his government can be questioned by the electorate.
Why is that?

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on February 05, 2016, 07:07:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 05, 2016, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2016, 06:27:22 PM
Gerry was doing some awful spluttering when he was trying to explain how FG were wrong ::)
Would be some craic if him and Kenny were debating Financial matters ;D

Enda doesn't do debates anymore does he?

Calls the shortest election campaign to minimise the amount of time his government can be questioned by the electorate.
Why is that?

Could it be that the election by law has to be held within 18th to 25 days of the Dail being dissolved? Given that it was dissolved on Feb 3rd, I make that 23 days. And realistically it was the only option to give students a fair chance to vote on a Friday.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on February 05, 2016, 08:10:46 PM
FG are hammering the competence meme but have fairly poor poll numbers
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on February 06, 2016, 01:27:28 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 05, 2016, 07:07:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 05, 2016, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2016, 06:27:22 PM
Gerry was doing some awful spluttering when he was trying to explain how FG were wrong ::)
Would be some craic if him and Kenny were debating Financial matters ;D

Enda doesn't do debates anymore does he?

Calls the shortest election campaign to minimise the amount of time his government can be questioned by the electorate.
Why is that?

Could it be that the election by law has to be held within 18th to 25 days of the Dail being dissolved? Given that it was dissolved on Feb 3rd, I make that 23 days. And realistically it was the only option to give students a fair chance to vote on a Friday.

An election campaign is only allowed to be three weeks long by law - just more nonsense from Foxcommander. Quick to insult, not so quick to know basic facts about the political system.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ashman on February 06, 2016, 01:34:54 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 05, 2016, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2016, 06:27:22 PM
Gerry was doing some awful spluttering when he was trying to explain how FG were wrong ::)
Would be some craic if him and Kenny were debating Financial matters ;D

Enda doesn't do debates anymore does he?

Calls the shortest election campaign to minimise the amount of time his government can be questioned by the electorate.
Why is that?


Ffs 3 weeks is more than enough to be listening to all and sundry.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 06, 2016, 02:01:39 AM
Quote from: Syferus on February 06, 2016, 01:27:28 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 05, 2016, 07:07:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 05, 2016, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2016, 06:27:22 PM
Gerry was doing some awful spluttering when he was trying to explain how FG were wrong ::)
Would be some craic if him and Kenny were debating Financial matters ;D

Enda doesn't do debates anymore does he?

Calls the shortest election campaign to minimise the amount of time his government can be questioned by the electorate.
Why is that?

Could it be that the election by law has to be held within 18th to 25 days of the Dail being dissolved? Given that it was dissolved on Feb 3rd, I make that 23 days. And realistically it was the only option to give students a fair chance to vote on a Friday.

An election campaign is only allowed to be three weeks long by law - just more nonsense from Foxcommander. Quick to insult, not so quick to know basic facts about the political system.

Technically, the shortest campaign in the history of the State gets underway tomorrow.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/for-those-relishing-the-election-campaign-we-say-enjoy-1.2520578

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 06, 2016, 09:39:32 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 06, 2016, 02:01:39 AM
Quote from: Syferus on February 06, 2016, 01:27:28 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 05, 2016, 07:07:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 05, 2016, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2016, 06:27:22 PM
Gerry was doing some awful spluttering when he was trying to explain how FG were wrong ::)
Would be some craic if him and Kenny were debating Financial matters ;D

Enda doesn't do debates anymore does he?

Calls the shortest election campaign to minimise the amount of time his government can be questioned by the electorate.
Why is that?

Could it be that the election by law has to be held within 18th to 25 days of the Dail being dissolved? Given that it was dissolved on Feb 3rd, I make that 23 days. And realistically it was the only option to give students a fair chance to vote on a Friday.

An election campaign is only allowed to be three weeks long by law - just more nonsense from Foxcommander. Quick to insult, not so quick to know basic facts about the political system.

Technically, the shortest campaign in the history of the State gets underway tomorrow.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/for-those-relishing-the-election-campaign-we-say-enjoy-1.2520578
And the line that follows directly after?

Realistically, it has been underway for quite some time.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 06, 2016, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 06, 2016, 09:39:32 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 06, 2016, 02:01:39 AM
Quote from: Syferus on February 06, 2016, 01:27:28 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 05, 2016, 07:07:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 05, 2016, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2016, 06:27:22 PM
Gerry was doing some awful spluttering when he was trying to explain how FG were wrong ::)
Would be some craic if him and Kenny were debating Financial matters ;D

Enda doesn't do debates anymore does he?

Calls the shortest election campaign to minimise the amount of time his government can be questioned by the electorate.
Why is that?

Could it be that the election by law has to be held within 18th to 25 days of the Dail being dissolved? Given that it was dissolved on Feb 3rd, I make that 23 days. And realistically it was the only option to give students a fair chance to vote on a Friday.

An election campaign is only allowed to be three weeks long by law - just more nonsense from Foxcommander. Quick to insult, not so quick to know basic facts about the political system.

Technically, the shortest campaign in the history of the State gets underway tomorrow.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/for-those-relishing-the-election-campaign-we-say-enjoy-1.2520578
And the line that follows directly after?

Realistically, it has been underway for quite some time.

But you're still wrong Maguire. How foolish of you to chime in on an already beaten argument. Speaks volumes of how petty you are.

No where is syferus with that apology?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 06, 2016, 04:31:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 06, 2016, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 06, 2016, 09:39:32 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 06, 2016, 02:01:39 AM
Quote from: Syferus on February 06, 2016, 01:27:28 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 05, 2016, 07:07:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 05, 2016, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2016, 06:27:22 PM
Gerry was doing some awful spluttering when he was trying to explain how FG were wrong ::)
Would be some craic if him and Kenny were debating Financial matters ;D

Enda doesn't do debates anymore does he?

Calls the shortest election campaign to minimise the amount of time his government can be questioned by the electorate.
Why is that?

Could it be that the election by law has to be held within 18th to 25 days of the Dail being dissolved? Given that it was dissolved on Feb 3rd, I make that 23 days. And realistically it was the only option to give students a fair chance to vote on a Friday.

An election campaign is only allowed to be three weeks long by law - just more nonsense from Foxcommander. Quick to insult, not so quick to know basic facts about the political system.

Technically, the shortest campaign in the history of the State gets underway tomorrow.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/for-those-relishing-the-election-campaign-we-say-enjoy-1.2520578
And the line that follows directly after?

Realistically, it has been underway for quite some time.

But you're still wrong Maguire. How foolish of you to chime in on an already beaten argument. Speaks volumes of how petty you are.

No where is syferus with that apology?
How am I wrong? I'm quoting from your link.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 07, 2016, 02:21:37 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 06, 2016, 04:31:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 06, 2016, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 06, 2016, 09:39:32 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 06, 2016, 02:01:39 AM
Quote from: Syferus on February 06, 2016, 01:27:28 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 05, 2016, 07:07:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 05, 2016, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2016, 06:27:22 PM
Gerry was doing some awful spluttering when he was trying to explain how FG were wrong ::)
Would be some craic if him and Kenny were debating Financial matters ;D

Enda doesn't do debates anymore does he?

Calls the shortest election campaign to minimise the amount of time his government can be questioned by the electorate.
Why is that?

Could it be that the election by law has to be held within 18th to 25 days of the Dail being dissolved? Given that it was dissolved on Feb 3rd, I make that 23 days. And realistically it was the only option to give students a fair chance to vote on a Friday.

An election campaign is only allowed to be three weeks long by law - just more nonsense from Foxcommander. Quick to insult, not so quick to know basic facts about the political system.

Technically, the shortest campaign in the history of the State gets underway tomorrow.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/for-those-relishing-the-election-campaign-we-say-enjoy-1.2520578
And the line that follows directly after?

Realistically, it has been underway for quite some time.

But you're still wrong Maguire. How foolish of you to chime in on an already beaten argument. Speaks volumes of how petty you are.

No where is syferus with that apology?
How am I wrong? I'm quoting from your link.

Ok - so tell me how it's not the shortest campaign in state history seeing as Enda called it on Wednesday 3rd and the election is on fri 26th. 21 days of campaigning.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/election-2016--what-you-need-to-know-718808.html


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Never beat the deeler on February 07, 2016, 07:45:31 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 07, 2016, 02:21:37 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 06, 2016, 04:31:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 06, 2016, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 06, 2016, 09:39:32 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 06, 2016, 02:01:39 AM
Quote from: Syferus on February 06, 2016, 01:27:28 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 05, 2016, 07:07:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 05, 2016, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2016, 06:27:22 PM
Gerry was doing some awful spluttering when he was trying to explain how FG were wrong ::)
Would be some craic if him and Kenny were debating Financial matters ;D

Enda doesn't do debates anymore does he?

Calls the shortest election campaign to minimise the amount of time his government can be questioned by the electorate.
Why is that?

Could it be that the election by law has to be held within 18th to 25 days of the Dail being dissolved? Given that it was dissolved on Feb 3rd, I make that 23 days. And realistically it was the only option to give students a fair chance to vote on a Friday.

An election campaign is only allowed to be three weeks long by law - just more nonsense from Foxcommander. Quick to insult, not so quick to know basic facts about the political system.

Technically, the shortest campaign in the history of the State gets underway tomorrow.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/for-those-relishing-the-election-campaign-we-say-enjoy-1.2520578
And the line that follows directly after?

Realistically, it has been underway for quite some time.

But you're still wrong Maguire. How foolish of you to chime in on an already beaten argument. Speaks volumes of how petty you are.

No where is syferus with that apology?
How am I wrong? I'm quoting from your link.

Ok - so tell me how it's not the shortest campaign in state history seeing as Enda called it on Wednesday 3rd and the election is on fri 26th. 21 days of campaigning.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/election-2016--what-you-need-to-know-718808.html

How is it 21 days - do you need to stop campaigning a couple of days before the election?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 07, 2016, 07:46:21 AM
It is the shortest, from official announcement to election day, yes. That is not in dispute. The point is that all parties have been in election mode for months. That's why the Irish Times made the distinction between technically and realistically.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 07, 2016, 06:54:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 07, 2016, 07:46:21 AM
It is the shortest, from official announcement to election day, yes. That is not in dispute. The point is that all parties have been in election mode for months. That's why the Irish Times made the distinction between technically and realistically.

Great -  so you agree that I'm right.

The problem with your assessment is that Fine Gael were still in government until Inda went to see the Hobbit so none of the other parties could officially launch their campaigns, put up posters, organize meetings etc.

Candidates press flesh from the time the last election results were announced to get themselves elected, there's nothing new in that (although some you don't even hear about from one election to the other).

Here's a little diagram to show your thought process Maguire :)

(http://i.imgur.com/uJFCfcv.gif)

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ashman on February 07, 2016, 07:50:34 PM
Fox

The "hobbit" to which is refer is the elected head or this state .  Your use of that term show you as an obnoxious buffoon.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 08, 2016, 06:03:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 07, 2016, 06:54:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 07, 2016, 07:46:21 AM
It is the shortest, from official announcement to election day, yes. That is not in dispute. The point is that all parties have been in election mode for months. That's why the Irish Times made the distinction between technically and realistically.

Great -  so you agree that I'm right.
I never said you weren't. You missed my point.


Quote from: foxcommander on February 07, 2016, 06:54:21 PM
The problem with your assessment is that Fine Gael were still in government until Inda went to see the Hobbit so none of the other parties could officially launch their campaigns, put up posters, organize meetings etc.
3 weeks is more than enough time. You want posters up for several months? Months of TV debates?
And there has been nothing stopping candidates or political parties having meetings, and the reality (yes, that word again) is that the key election issues have been debated endlessly over the past weeks, months and even years. If you need a longer campaign to make your mind up, then you must not have been tuned in.


Quote from: foxcommander on February 07, 2016, 06:54:21 PM
Here's a little diagram to show your thought process Maguire :)

(http://i.imgur.com/uJFCfcv.gif)
Yes, but you're the one who needs that diagram. As per the Irish Times article you (selectively) quoted:
Technically, the shortest campaign in the history of the State gets underway tomorrow. Realistically, it has been underway for quite some time.

Therefore, i've been the one consistently on the side of reality.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 08, 2016, 06:41:23 PM
Fine Gael want the shortest time possible so that Inda can avoid being quizzed or subjected to an unscripted debate.

He's not obliged to answer questions outside of the official campaign (watch his dail answers for evidence) and will treat the electorate with the usual disdain if they do so on the streets. That's why the official campaign window is so important.
He's begging for your votes and avoidance (remember Vincent Browne non debate last election) is seen as a negative at the polling booth. Last time around it wasn't so important but this time around they're in a battle for seats.




Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 08, 2016, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 08, 2016, 06:41:23 PM
Fine Gael want the shortest time possible so that Inda can avoid being quizzed or subjected to an unscripted debate.

He's not obliged to answer questions outside of the official campaign (watch his dail answers for evidence) and will treat the electorate with the usual disdain if they do so on the streets. That's why the official campaign window is so important.
He's not obliged to answer questions during the official campaign either. FG can send whoever they want out to interview. The electorate may well look unfavourably on him if he does this, but he can avoid the debates if he wishes.

Quote from: foxcommander on February 08, 2016, 06:41:23 PM
He's begging for your votes and avoidance (remember Vincent Browne non debate last election) is seen as a negative at the polling booth. Last time around it wasn't so important but this time around they're in a battle for seats.
You've proven my point.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 08, 2016, 07:26:41 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 08, 2016, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 08, 2016, 06:41:23 PM
Fine Gael want the shortest time possible so that Inda can avoid being quizzed or subjected to an unscripted debate.

He's not obliged to answer questions outside of the official campaign (watch his dail answers for evidence) and will treat the electorate with the usual disdain if they do so on the streets. That's why the official campaign window is so important.
He's not obliged to answer questions during the official campaign either. FG can send whoever they want out to interview. The electorate may well look unfavourably on him if he does this, but he can avoid the debates if he wishes.

Quote from: foxcommander on February 08, 2016, 06:41:23 PM
He's begging for your votes and avoidance (remember Vincent Browne non debate last election) is seen as a negative at the polling booth. Last time around it wasn't so important but this time around they're in a battle for seats.
You've proven my point.

You've just made up a point to yourself.

Normally party leaders will debate the issues. Inda won't. He gets his minions to do this for him as he's incapable.
He refuses to debate as he'll be shown up and his party will be shown up.

I hope the electorate will realise that he believes him and his party are not accountable to them.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on February 08, 2016, 07:29:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 06, 2016, 02:01:39 AM
Quote from: Syferus on February 06, 2016, 01:27:28 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 05, 2016, 07:07:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 05, 2016, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2016, 06:27:22 PM
Gerry was doing some awful spluttering when he was trying to explain how FG were wrong ::)
Would be some craic if him and Kenny were debating Financial matters ;D

Enda doesn't do debates anymore does he?

Calls the shortest election campaign to minimise the amount of time his government can be questioned by the electorate.
Why is that?

Could it be that the election by law has to be held within 18th to 25 days of the Dail being dissolved? Given that it was dissolved on Feb 3rd, I make that 23 days. And realistically it was the only option to give students a fair chance to vote on a Friday.

An election campaign is only allowed to be three weeks long by law - just more nonsense from Foxcommander. Quick to insult, not so quick to know basic facts about the political system.

Technically, the shortest campaign in the history of the State gets underway tomorrow.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/for-those-relishing-the-election-campaign-we-say-enjoy-1.2520578

Be careful of everything you read in the Irish Times because Wikepedia actually has a record of dissolution of the Dail and election date.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_general_election_timetable

Looks like even in recent times, there were shorter campaigns:

1992 - 20 days
1997 - 22 days
2002 - 23 days
Even 2011 only had 1 day more, 24 days.

Will have to remember to fact check you bucks anymore.












Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Owenmoresider on February 08, 2016, 09:06:33 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 08, 2016, 07:29:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 06, 2016, 02:01:39 AM
Quote from: Syferus on February 06, 2016, 01:27:28 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 05, 2016, 07:07:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 05, 2016, 06:45:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2016, 06:27:22 PM
Gerry was doing some awful spluttering when he was trying to explain how FG were wrong ::)
Would be some craic if him and Kenny were debating Financial matters ;D

Enda doesn't do debates anymore does he?

Calls the shortest election campaign to minimise the amount of time his government can be questioned by the electorate.
Why is that?

Could it be that the election by law has to be held within 18th to 25 days of the Dail being dissolved? Given that it was dissolved on Feb 3rd, I make that 23 days. And realistically it was the only option to give students a fair chance to vote on a Friday.

An election campaign is only allowed to be three weeks long by law - just more nonsense from Foxcommander. Quick to insult, not so quick to know basic facts about the political system.

Technically, the shortest campaign in the history of the State gets underway tomorrow.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/for-those-relishing-the-election-campaign-we-say-enjoy-1.2520578

Be careful of everything you read in the Irish Times because Wikepedia actually has a record of dissolution of the Dail and election date.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_general_election_timetable

Looks like even in recent times, there were shorter campaigns:

1992 - 20 days
1997 - 22 days
2002 - 23 days
Even 2011 only had 1 day more, 24 days.

Will have to remember to fact check you bucks anymore.
Also from that link:
1982 I - 22 days
1982 II - 20 days
1989 - 21 days
1965 - 20 days
1961 - 19 days, etc...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 10, 2016, 07:26:30 PM
Nail on the head

(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/11659260_1669241969971595_523048162201159641_n.jpg?oh=22fb24f4f6ba0dd30b5c3c962f35dfb4&oe=576A15A0)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Owenmoresider on February 10, 2016, 11:38:41 PM
Another quality contribution that.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 11, 2016, 01:41:45 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on February 10, 2016, 11:38:41 PM
Another quality contribution that.

I know. Great pic isn't it.
Man of the people  ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on February 11, 2016, 01:48:06 PM
Has Kenny ever came out and personally apologised for Ballyseedy?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on February 11, 2016, 02:06:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 11, 2016, 01:41:45 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on February 10, 2016, 11:38:41 PM
Another quality contribution that.

I know. Great pic isn't it.
Man of the people  ;D

It's a good one alright. How much taxpayers money are those Bohs fans looking for to fix their stadium now that their $60M deal to sell the "soul of Irish football" to a property developer.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 14, 2016, 06:49:28 PM
How about this one

(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xal1/v/t1.0-9/12745727_1665861543696265_3181464845125383540_n.jpg?oh=f1eb8ea3f80b3d95803fadb43260151f&oe=5767747D)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on February 17, 2016, 01:12:33 PM
Amazing the free state media's contrast in reporting between the IRA's handling of a dissident republican's claim of sexual abuse in a state where security forces and juducial system were not trusted by the nationalist community in an area out of the jurisdiction of the 26.

And Michael Noonan not wanting to do anything about child sex abuse claims.

Fine Gael - the party willing to empower dodgy business men like Dennis O'Brien and child sex offenders in whichever way it can.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/michael-noonan-didnt-want-to-know-about-sex-abuse-claims-382178.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 17, 2016, 06:49:35 PM
Good article - You don't get many chances to really show the goverment what you think of their policies.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/02/17/how-we-turned-the-tide/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 17, 2016, 06:52:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 17, 2016, 06:49:35 PM
Good article - You don't get many chances to really show the goverment what you think of their policies.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/02/17/how-we-turned-the-tide/

These people are a waste of space, obstructing decent people going about their business and spending more on going to protests than would pay their water bills.

If they were protesting about queues in A&E I would respect them, but they are merely Mé Féiners

There is an election in a couple of weeks, they can speak then.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 17, 2016, 07:08:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 17, 2016, 06:52:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 17, 2016, 06:49:35 PM
Good article - You don't get many chances to really show the goverment what you think of their policies.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/02/17/how-we-turned-the-tide/

These people are a waste of space, obstructing decent people going about their business and spending more on going to protests than would pay their water bills.

If they were protesting about queues in A&E I would respect them, but they are merely Mé Féiners

There is an election in a couple of weeks, they can speak then.

Exactly - there is an election in a couple of weeks and the more that see how the government have shafted them the better it is.

So you suggest to wait until after the election to speak up. Why is that?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 17, 2016, 08:32:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 17, 2016, 06:52:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 17, 2016, 06:49:35 PM
Good article - You don't get many chances to really show the goverment what you think of their policies.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/02/17/how-we-turned-the-tide/

These people are a waste of space, obstructing decent people going about their business and spending more on going to protests than would pay their water bills.

If they were protesting about queues in A&E I would respect them,
+1.
W***nkers the lot of them.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 17, 2016, 08:50:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 17, 2016, 07:08:44 PM
So you suggest to wait until after the election to speak up. Why is that?

In the election the people speak, and they will vote for a government who will have a policy. Blocking the road and generally acting the maggot has no place.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 17, 2016, 08:54:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 17, 2016, 08:50:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 17, 2016, 07:08:44 PM
So you suggest to wait until after the election to speak up. Why is that?

In the election the people speak, and they will vote for a government who will have a policy. Blocking the road and generally acting the maggot has no place.

That's your opinion. To others it's refreshing to see that you're not alone in thinking you're being screwed over and that there is an alternative.

For too long the mentality "sure what can do" was prevalent in the country. Time to change that. Make your government work for you. Kenny & co treat the people with utter disdain and people can see it now.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: From the Bunker on February 17, 2016, 08:55:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 17, 2016, 08:32:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 17, 2016, 06:52:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 17, 2016, 06:49:35 PM
Good article - You don't get many chances to really show the goverment what you think of their policies.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/02/17/how-we-turned-the-tide/

These people are a waste of space, obstructing decent people going about their business and spending more on going to protests than would pay their water bills.

If they were protesting about queues in A&E I would respect them,
+1.
W***nkers the lot of them.

I think electricity should be free as well. In fact I think, heating oil should be free. It is every persons right in this country to have light and heat. And of course water. And speaking of water, we have had such a sh1te winter, I think we are all entitled to a free holiday.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on February 17, 2016, 09:51:33 PM
It seems that the Free State media are giving Noonan a free pass on ignoring sexual child abuse allegation.

Has Senator Mairia Cahill any comment to make on a Government Minister ignoring child sex abuse claims?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 17, 2016, 10:06:17 PM
I'm surprised that FG's declining percentages in the polls, (I know they're only polls) hasn't been highlighted here.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 17, 2016, 11:30:34 PM
When are the anti water charge fcyktards going to give tax rebates to people who pay for group scheme water or incur major expense in sinking wells?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on February 18, 2016, 12:43:06 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 17, 2016, 08:55:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 17, 2016, 08:32:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 17, 2016, 06:52:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 17, 2016, 06:49:35 PM
Good article - You don't get many chances to really show the goverment what you think of their policies.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/02/17/how-we-turned-the-tide/

These people are a waste of space, obstructing decent people going about their business and spending more on going to protests than would pay their water bills.

If they were protesting about queues in A&E I would respect them,
+1.
W***nkers the lot of them.

I think electricity should be free as well. In fact I think, heating oil should be free. It is every persons right in this country to have light and heat. And of course water. And speaking of water, we have had such a sh1te winter, I think we are all entitled to a free holiday.

What do we want?
Free stuff
When do we want it?
All the time
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Declan on February 18, 2016, 08:08:33 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/12718160_1664437223844492_686953015815265540_n.jpg?oh=ec3e1bc579712929ed9c4749f7ff6942&oe=576C4C9D&__gda__=1465826577_3c1bd8335a08ea3449e03f637a447738)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on February 18, 2016, 08:29:03 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 18, 2016, 12:43:06 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 17, 2016, 08:55:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 17, 2016, 08:32:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 17, 2016, 06:52:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 17, 2016, 06:49:35 PM
Good article - You don't get many chances to really show the goverment what you think of their policies.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/02/17/how-we-turned-the-tide/

These people are a waste of space, obstructing decent people going about their business and spending more on going to protests than would pay their water bills.

If they were protesting about queues in A&E I would respect them,
+1.
W***nkers the lot of them.

I think electricity should be free as well. In fact I think, heating oil should be free. It is every persons right in this country to have light and heat. And of course water. And speaking of water, we have had such a sh1te winter, I think we are all entitled to a free holiday.

What do we want?
Free stuff
When do we want it?
All the time

Free stuff is a human right
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 02:59:16 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 17, 2016, 08:55:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 17, 2016, 08:32:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 17, 2016, 06:52:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 17, 2016, 06:49:35 PM
Good article - You don't get many chances to really show the goverment what you think of their policies.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/02/17/how-we-turned-the-tide/

These people are a waste of space, obstructing decent people going about their business and spending more on going to protests than would pay their water bills.

If they were protesting about queues in A&E I would respect them,
+1.
W***nkers the lot of them.

I think electricity should be free as well. In fact I think, heating oil should be free. It is every persons right in this country to have light and heat. And of course water. And speaking of water, we have had such a sh1te winter, I think we are all entitled to a free holiday.
I dunno why I bother but here goes. You already pay for your water. If you want to pay twice go ahead. Some people think paying twice for someting is idiotic but each to their own.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 18, 2016, 03:02:10 PM
Quote from: heffo on February 18, 2016, 08:29:03 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 18, 2016, 12:43:06 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 17, 2016, 08:55:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 17, 2016, 08:32:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 17, 2016, 06:52:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 17, 2016, 06:49:35 PM
Good article - You don't get many chances to really show the goverment what you think of their policies.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/02/17/how-we-turned-the-tide/

These people are a waste of space, obstructing decent people going about their business and spending more on going to protests than would pay their water bills.

If they were protesting about queues in A&E I would respect them,
+1.
W***nkers the lot of them.

I think electricity should be free as well. In fact I think, heating oil should be free. It is every persons right in this country to have light and heat. And of course water. And speaking of water, we have had such a sh1te winter, I think we are all entitled to a free holiday.

What do we want?
Free stuff
When do we want it?
All the time

Free stuff is a human right

Only if you live in a town or city.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 03:10:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 17, 2016, 06:52:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 17, 2016, 06:49:35 PM
Good article - You don't get many chances to really show the goverment what you think of their policies.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/02/17/how-we-turned-the-tide/

These people are a waste of space, obstructing decent people going about their business and spending more on going to protests than would pay their water bills.

If they were protesting about queues in A&E I would respect them, but they are merely Mé Féiners

There is an election in a couple of weeks, they can speak then.
So you agree with people's right to protest but only if you think it is important.  If decent people were being upset by people protesting with how HSE is run whose side would you be on? Protestors or the decent people?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 18, 2016, 03:25:27 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 02:59:16 PM
I dunno why I bother but here goes. You already pay for your water. If you want to pay twice go ahead. Some people think paying twice for someting is idiotic but each to their own.

I don't know why you bother either, as you are only posting nonsense.

The government decided water would be paid for partly by bill, if you do not pay this then you have not paid for your water. If you continue using water then you have stolen it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 03:27:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 17, 2016, 11:30:34 PM
When are the anti water charge fcyktards going to give tax rebates to people who pay for group scheme water or incur major expense in sinking wells?

Just because you're dumb enough to pay twice for water is no reason to insult those sharp enough to realise once is enough. You can get your rebate from the Social Dept. €100 available to all, even those who just paid the once for their water. I think the deadline has passed so you may have to suck it up unfortunately. Be grateful you have a trough to feed from and can afford to take the hit.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 03:32:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 18, 2016, 03:25:27 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 02:59:16 PM
I dunno why I bother but here goes. You already pay for your water. If you want to pay twice go ahead. Some people think paying twice for someting is idiotic but each to their own.

I don't know why you bother either, as you are only posting nonsense.

The government decided water would be paid for partly by bill, if you do not pay this then you have not paid for your water. If you continue using water then you have stolen it.

Incorrect. I have paid motor tax, this is being used to fund Irish Water ergo I have paid for my water.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/motor-tax-cash-used-to-fund-irish-water-30968852.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 18, 2016, 03:34:42 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 03:32:37 PM
Incorrect. I have paid motor tax, this is being used to fund Irish Water ergo I have paid for my water.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/motor-tax-cash-used-to-fund-irish-water-30968852.html

OK so your motor tax has paid two-thirds of funding being given to Irish Water. When are you going to pay the rest? 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 03:48:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 18, 2016, 03:34:42 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 03:32:37 PM
Incorrect. I have paid motor tax, this is being used to fund Irish Water ergo I have paid for my water.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/motor-tax-cash-used-to-fund-irish-water-30968852.html

OK so your motor tax has paid two-thirds of funding being given to Irish Water. When are you going to pay the rest?

ok so u agree I pay for my water. Now we're getting places. I will explain where the other 33% comes from tomorrow. Think that sponge has soaked up enough info for one day. You're doing well though. Never give up!!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 18, 2016, 03:53:57 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 03:48:03 PM
ok so u agree I pay for my water. Now we're getting places. I will explain where the other 33% comes from tomorrow. Think that sponge has soaked up enough info for one day. You're doing well though. Never give up!!!

If you haven't paid it all then you haven't paid it. End of.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 04:05:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 18, 2016, 03:53:57 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 03:48:03 PM
ok so u agree I pay for my water. Now we're getting places. I will explain where the other 33% comes from tomorrow. Think that sponge has soaked up enough info for one day. You're doing well though. Never give up!!!

If you haven't paid it all then you haven't paid it. End of.

If your definition of "paid it all" is paying for it twice then for once you are correct, I have not paid for it twice.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 18, 2016, 04:06:13 PM
What do we want.
Everything free!
Who's going to pay for it?
Anyone but me!
Heard an Anti everything candidate being interviewed on a Leinster local station while driving this morning.
Pure comedy!
Wants and end to charges for public water and sewerage, end to Property tax, abolish USC up to €70k and in the next breath wants major spending on Health and Housing.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 04:12:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 18, 2016, 03:25:27 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 02:59:16 PM
I dunno why I bother but here goes. You already pay for your water. If you want to pay twice go ahead. Some people think paying twice for someting is idiotic but each to their own.

I don't know why you bother either, as you are only posting nonsense.

The government decided water would be paid for partly by bill, if you do not pay this then you have not paid for your water. If you continue using water then you have stolen it.


If the government decided one day that you need to jump off the Cliffs of Moher will you and the other FG cheerleaders comply with their directive?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:14:03 PM
Trying to abolish property tax one is strange - surely anyone who owns their own house is reasonably well off? They're certainly not the poorest in society
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 04:14:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 18, 2016, 04:06:13 PM
What do we want.
Everything free!
Who's going to pay for it?
Anyone but me!
Heard an Anti everything candidate being interviewed on a Leinster local station while driving this morning.
Pure comedy!
Wants and end to charges for public water and sewerage, end to Property tax, abolish USC up to €70k and in the next breath wants major spending on Health and Housing.

+1.
W***nkers the lot of them.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 04:16:08 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:14:03 PM
Trying to abolish property tax one is strange - surely anyone who owns their own house is reasonably well off? They're certainly not the poorest in society

Not if you paid 500k for a house that's only worth 300k now.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on February 18, 2016, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 04:16:08 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:14:03 PM
Trying to abolish property tax one is strange - surely anyone who owns their own house is reasonably well off? They're certainly not the poorest in society

Not if you paid 500k for a house that's only worth 300k now.

Unless you're trying to sell it, that makes fck all difference.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:29:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 04:16:08 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:14:03 PM
Trying to abolish property tax one is strange - surely anyone who owns their own house is reasonably well off? They're certainly not the poorest in society

Not if you paid 500k for a house that's only worth 300k now.

If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 18, 2016, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 04:16:08 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:14:03 PM
Trying to abolish property tax one is strange - surely anyone who owns their own house is reasonably well off? They're certainly not the poorest in society

Not if you paid 500k for a house that's only worth 300k now.

Unless you're trying to sell it, that makes fck all difference.

You are saying they are reasonably well off if they own a house. Not the case if they're paying a mortgage on a house with negative equity.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 18, 2016, 05:02:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 04:12:46 PM
If the government decided one day that you need to jump off the Cliffs of Moher will you and the other FG cheerleaders comply with their directive?

do you reject the proposition that it is within the remit of an elected government can rearrange the structure of taxes and charges?

Are all the parties with different proposals not entitled to propose these and implement them if they get elected?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:29:28 PM
If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

Theres a lot of folk treading water just about able to pay the mortgage. The extras are killing them.

Maybe you forget that during the bubble the house prices were ridiculous. People were living beyond their means I agree but with no end in to the price rises tried to get on the ladder before prices went completely out of reach.

Same people lost their jobs after the bust. They may be debt if they sell their house and homeless to boot- a real catch 22.

Does that not register with you at all?

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 05:13:17 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:29:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 04:16:08 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:14:03 PM
Trying to abolish property tax one is strange - surely anyone who owns their own house is reasonably well off? They're certainly not the poorest in society

Not if you paid 500k for a house that's only worth 300k now.

If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

If you have an asset worth 300k but paid 500k for it, you are down 200k. Just because you own a house does not mean you are wealthy. What if you took out a mortgage when things were going well. You could afford the mortgage. But then the recession came, you had a paycut, new taxes were introduced, USC, Property Tax, Water Tax. All of a sudden the mortgage is not so affordable. But you think they're doing well cso they have a 500k mortgage? Just before you take delight and hope that this person is me, it's not. I bought my house when prices were very low but I have a bit of empathy for those that are not so lucky.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 05:47:00 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 05:13:17 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:29:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 04:16:08 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:14:03 PM
Trying to abolish property tax one is strange - surely anyone who owns their own house is reasonably well off? They're certainly not the poorest in society

Not if you paid 500k for a house that's only worth 300k now.

If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

If you have an asset worth 300k but paid 500k for it, you are down 200k. Just because you own a house does not mean you are wealthy. What if you took out a mortgage when things were going well. You could afford the mortgage. But then the recession came, you had a paycut, new taxes were introduced, USC, Property Tax, Water Tax. All of a sudden the mortgage is not so affordable. But you think they're doing well cso they have a 500k mortgage? Just before you take delight and hope that this person is me, it's not. I bought my house when prices were very low but I have a bit of empathy for those that are not so lucky.

The fact that the asset has decreased in value has ZERO effect on your ability to pay mike. Why is that fact difficult to grasp??

If we divide society into those who own a house and those who don't, which group would you say are better off??

But of course, you're not paying because of your empathy with those who are unable to pay, that's a good one  ;D  ;D

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 05:49:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:29:28 PM
If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

Theres a lot of folk treading water just about able to pay the mortgage. The extras are killing them.

Maybe you forget that during the bubble the house prices were ridiculous. People were living beyond their means I agree but with no end in to the price rises tried to get on the ladder before prices went completely out of reach.

Same people lost their jobs after the bust. They may be debt if they sell their house and homeless to boot- a real catch 22.

Does that not register with you at all?

So you want to abolish the property tax rather than give an exemption say for someone who's on welfare??

Abolition of the property tax will only benefit the wealthiest in the society - do you disagree with that??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 18, 2016, 05:49:52 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 05:13:17 PM
If you have an asset worth 300k but paid 500k for it, you are down 200k. Just because you own a house does not mean you are wealthy. What if you took out a mortgage when things were going well. You could afford the mortgage. But then the recession came, you had a paycut, new taxes were introduced, USC, Property Tax, Water Tax. All of a sudden the mortgage is not so affordable. But you think they're doing well cso they have a 500k mortgage? Just before you take delight and hope that this person is me, it's not. I bought my house when prices were very low but I have a bit of empathy for those that are not so lucky.

Have you much empathy for the law abiding responsible person that pays his water bill and who sees crooked politicians promising an amesty for less law abiding people?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 18, 2016, 05:51:23 PM
Gerry Adams was giving a similar reason today.
Sure Poor Jorry has only 2 or is it 3 houses. He should give P Flynn a shout if he's finding it hard to manage.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 05:51:38 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 04:05:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 18, 2016, 03:53:57 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 03:48:03 PM
ok so u agree I pay for my water. Now we're getting places. I will explain where the other 33% comes from tomorrow. Think that sponge has soaked up enough info for one day. You're doing well though. Never give up!!!

If you haven't paid it all then you haven't paid it. End of.

If your definition of "paid it all" is paying for it twice then for once you are correct, I have not paid for it twice.

If IW is privatised as you want it to be mike, will you pay your water charges then?? The private company won't be getting any of your motor tax
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 06:50:25 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 05:51:38 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 04:05:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 18, 2016, 03:53:57 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 03:48:03 PM
ok so u agree I pay for my water. Now we're getting places. I will explain where the other 33% comes from tomorrow. Think that sponge has soaked up enough info for one day. You're doing well though. Never give up!!!

If you haven't paid it all then you haven't paid it. End of.

If your definition of "paid it all" is paying for it twice then for once you are correct, I have not paid for it twice.

If IW is privatised as you want it to be mike, will you pay your water charges then?? The private company won't be getting any of your motor tax
A private company wouldn't charge me twice.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 06:52:56 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 05:47:00 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 05:13:17 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:29:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 04:16:08 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:14:03 PM
Trying to abolish property tax one is strange - surely anyone who owns their own house is reasonably well off? They're certainly not the poorest in society

Not if you paid 500k for a house that's only worth 300k now.

If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

If you have an asset worth 300k but paid 500k for it, you are down 200k. Just because you own a house does not mean you are wealthy. What if you took out a mortgage when things were going well. You could afford the mortgage. But then the recession came, you had a paycut, new taxes were introduced, USC, Property Tax, Water Tax. All of a sudden the mortgage is not so affordable. But you think they're doing well cso they have a 500k mortgage? Just before you take delight and hope that this person is me, it's not. I bought my house when prices were very low but I have a bit of empathy for those that are not so lucky.

The fact that the asset has decreased in value has ZERO effect on your ability to pay mike. Why is that fact difficult to grasp??

If we divide society into those who own a house and those who don't, which group would you say are better off??

But of course, you're not paying because of your empathy with those who are unable to pay, that's a good one  ;D  ;D
His point wasn't about ability to pay. His point was that if you own a house you must be welll off which is not the case as I've clearly explained.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 18, 2016, 07:00:17 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 06:50:25 PM
A private company wouldn't charge me twice.

Nobody is charging you twice, part of the payment comes from Motor Tax, part from the bill.
You haven't paid it all, so you haven't paid.
Continuing to use a service without paying is theft.

A bit like paying standing charge on your electricity bill and refusing to pay the unit charge "because you've already paid".
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 07:58:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 18, 2016, 07:00:17 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 06:50:25 PM
A private company wouldn't charge me twice.

Nobody is charging you twice, part of the payment comes from Motor Tax, part from the bill.
You haven't paid it all, so you haven't paid.
Continuing to use a service without paying is theft.

A bit like paying standing charge on your electricity bill and refusing to pay the unit charge "because you've already paid".
So if tax payers didn't pay for water prior to Irish Water being set up who did? Did Mommy tell you it was the tooth fairy or santa?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on February 18, 2016, 08:10:29 PM
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu206/Hardyarse/mikehund_zpsyfk6ecyo.png) (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/mikehund_zpsyfk6ecyo.png.html)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 08:18:27 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 06:52:56 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 05:47:00 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 05:13:17 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:29:28 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 04:16:08 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:14:03 PM
Trying to abolish property tax one is strange - surely anyone who owns their own house is reasonably well off? They're certainly not the poorest in society

Not if you paid 500k for a house that's only worth 300k now.

If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

If you have an asset worth 300k but paid 500k for it, you are down 200k. Just because you own a house does not mean you are wealthy. What if you took out a mortgage when things were going well. You could afford the mortgage. But then the recession came, you had a paycut, new taxes were introduced, USC, Property Tax, Water Tax. All of a sudden the mortgage is not so affordable. But you think they're doing well cso they have a 500k mortgage? Just before you take delight and hope that this person is me, it's not. I bought my house when prices were very low but I have a bit of empathy for those that are not so lucky.

The fact that the asset has decreased in value has ZERO effect on your ability to pay mike. Why is that fact difficult to grasp??

If we divide society into those who own a house and those who don't, which group would you say are better off??

But of course, you're not paying because of your empathy with those who are unable to pay, that's a good one  ;D  ;D
His point wasn't about ability to pay. His point was that if you own a house you must be welll off which is not the case as I've clearly explained.

I know exactly what "his" point is, I'm just wondering why you're bringing an irrelevance like negative equity into the discussion??

If you own a house and are able to pay the mortgage, you are reasonably well off and you're certainly not the poorest in society. I'm not sure how you can dispute that
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 08:37:41 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 05:49:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:29:28 PM
If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

Theres a lot of folk treading water just about able to pay the mortgage. The extras are killing them.

Maybe you forget that during the bubble the house prices were ridiculous. People were living beyond their means I agree but with no end in to the price rises tried to get on the ladder before prices went completely out of reach.

Same people lost their jobs after the bust. They may be debt if they sell their house and homeless to boot- a real catch 22.

Does that not register with you at all?

So you want to abolish the property tax rather than give an exemption say for someone who's on welfare??

Abolition of the property tax will only benefit the wealthiest in the society - do you disagree with that??

I never mentioned property tax. You went off on your own tangent there.

I referred to the issue of people struggling to pay a mortgage (or not being able to pay). You must only have wealthy friends in your circle if it's never been mentioned before.

The usual gobshites like Rossfan think all these new charges brought in by government don't put extra strain on families (and I'm talking about proud people who don't ever want to resort to the welfare state in case you keep bringing up arguments about those who don't want employment).
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 08:43:54 PM
(http://i3.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/article4783754.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Capuchin1.jpg)

Daily queues at Capuchin Day Centre, Bow St, Dublin.

This is Ireland.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on February 18, 2016, 08:45:22 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 07:58:07 PM
So if tax payers didn't pay for water prior to Irish Water being set up who did? Did Mommy tell you it was the tooth fairy or santa?

How water was paid for in the past is literally water under the bridge. The issue is how it is paid for today.
It used be paid for by rates, do you keep on paying rates because that is how it was before?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 08:37:41 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 05:49:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:29:28 PM
If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

Theres a lot of folk treading water just about able to pay the mortgage. The extras are killing them.

Maybe you forget that during the bubble the house prices were ridiculous. People were living beyond their means I agree but with no end in to the price rises tried to get on the ladder before prices went completely out of reach.

Same people lost their jobs after the bust. They may be debt if they sell their house and homeless to boot- a real catch 22.

Does that not register with you at all?

So you want to abolish the property tax rather than give an exemption say for someone who's on welfare??

Abolition of the property tax will only benefit the wealthiest in the society - do you disagree with that??

I never mentioned property tax. You went off on your own tangent there.

I referred to the issue of people struggling to pay a mortgage (or not being able to pay). You must only have wealthy friends in your circle if it's never been mentioned before.

The usual gobshites like Rossfan think all these new charges brought in by government don't put extra strain on families (and I'm talking about proud people who don't ever want to resort to the welfare state in case you keep bringing up arguments about those who don't want employment).

I mentioned property tax and that abolishing it is a ridiculous policy. You replied and I presumed from your response that you were in favour of abolishing it.

Perhaps I was incorrect and you AREN'T in favour of abolishing it??

Or you have no position on the policy and were just randomly replying to posts about the property tax
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 08:54:22 PM
You spend 500k on an asset thats now worth 300k you are down 200k + the interest on 500k.  Someone who has no house is technically better off. His point was about wealth. If you're net assets are -200+ k you wouldn't be considered wealthy.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 09:08:23 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 08:37:41 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 05:49:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:29:28 PM
If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

Theres a lot of folk treading water just about able to pay the mortgage. The extras are killing them.

Maybe you forget that during the bubble the house prices were ridiculous. People were living beyond their means I agree but with no end in to the price rises tried to get on the ladder before prices went completely out of reach.

Same people lost their jobs after the bust. They may be debt if they sell their house and homeless to boot- a real catch 22.

Does that not register with you at all?

So you want to abolish the property tax rather than give an exemption say for someone who's on welfare??

Abolition of the property tax will only benefit the wealthiest in the society - do you disagree with that??

I never mentioned property tax. You went off on your own tangent there.

I referred to the issue of people struggling to pay a mortgage (or not being able to pay). You must only have wealthy friends in your circle if it's never been mentioned before.

The usual gobshites like Rossfan think all these new charges brought in by government don't put extra strain on families (and I'm talking about proud people who don't ever want to resort to the welfare state in case you keep bringing up arguments about those who don't want employment).

I mentioned property tax and that abolishing it is a ridiculous policy. You replied and I presumed from your response that you were in favour of abolishing it.

Perhaps I was incorrect and you AREN'T in favour of abolishing it??

Or you have no position on the policy and were just randomly replying to posts about the property tax

If you actually read my post again I said people had difficulty paying their mortages, nevermind the extras.

You mentioned in earlier ramblings USC, Property Tax, Water Tax, Motor Tax - I merely pointed out people may not have the capacity to pay.

Just give the government all your money. You know you want to. Simples.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 09:13:42 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 08:54:22 PM
You spend 500k on an asset thats now worth 300k you are down 200k + the interest on 500k.  Someone who has no house is technically better off. His point was about wealth. If you're net assets are -200+ k you wouldn't be considered wealthy.

Who's the "his" you're talking about?? Did you forget to log into your other account?

Anyway, now you want to change the discussion to be about wealth?? And your point is basically that homeless people are wealthier than those in negative equity??

I made a point about the abolition of the property tax being a stupid proposal. Now you apparently disagree with that because.......??

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 09:18:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 09:08:23 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 08:37:41 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 05:49:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:29:28 PM
If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

Theres a lot of folk treading water just about able to pay the mortgage. The extras are killing them.

Maybe you forget that during the bubble the house prices were ridiculous. People were living beyond their means I agree but with no end in to the price rises tried to get on the ladder before prices went completely out of reach.

Same people lost their jobs after the bust. They may be debt if they sell their house and homeless to boot- a real catch 22.

Does that not register with you at all?

So you want to abolish the property tax rather than give an exemption say for someone who's on welfare??

Abolition of the property tax will only benefit the wealthiest in the society - do you disagree with that??

I never mentioned property tax. You went off on your own tangent there.

I referred to the issue of people struggling to pay a mortgage (or not being able to pay). You must only have wealthy friends in your circle if it's never been mentioned before.

The usual gobshites like Rossfan think all these new charges brought in by government don't put extra strain on families (and I'm talking about proud people who don't ever want to resort to the welfare state in case you keep bringing up arguments about those who don't want employment).

I mentioned property tax and that abolishing it is a ridiculous policy. You replied and I presumed from your response that you were in favour of abolishing it.

Perhaps I was incorrect and you AREN'T in favour of abolishing it??

Or you have no position on the policy and were just randomly replying to posts about the property tax

If you actually read my post again I said people had difficulty paying their mortages, nevermind the extras.

You mentioned in earlier ramblings USC, Property Tax, Water Tax, Motor Tax - I merely pointed out people may not have the capacity to pay.

Just give the government all your money. You know you want to. Simples.

Hmm, you replied to a post where I was discussing the property tax, apologies for assuming that your point was also related to that subject matter.

I never mentioned USC, water tax or anything else. It's a pretty simple point I'm making here fox - the policy of many parties to abolish the property tax is a ridiculous policy, imo of course. What's your view on abolition of the property tax? A fair policy?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 09:26:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 18, 2016, 08:45:22 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 07:58:07 PM
So if tax payers didn't pay for water prior to Irish Water being set up who did? Did Mommy tell you it was the tooth fairy or santa?

How water was paid for in the past is literally water under the bridge. The issue is how it is paid for today.
It used be paid for by rates, do you keep on paying rates because that is how it was before?
Who paid for water prior to Irish Water and have they been relieved of this charge in place of new water charges?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 09:31:26 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 09:13:42 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 08:54:22 PM
You spend 500k on an asset thats now worth 300k you are down 200k + the interest on 500k.  Someone who has no house is technically better off. His point was about wealth. If you're net assets are -200+ k you wouldn't be considered wealthy.

Who's the "his" you're talking about?? Did you forget to log into your other account?

Anyway, now you want to change the discussion to be about wealth?? And your point is basically that homeless people are wealthier than those in negative equity??

I made a point about the abolition of the property tax being a stupid proposal. Now you apparently disagree with that because.......??
Jesus wept. His point was that anyone who owns a house is wealthy and should be able to afford property tax. Im saying that's not necessarily the case. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 09:35:11 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 09:18:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 09:08:23 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 08:37:41 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 05:49:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 04:29:28 PM
If you were able to get a mortgage for 500k and are still paying it then you're not one of poorest in society. Negative equity has nothing to do with your ability to pay.

Maybe your motor tax covers your property tax as well though

Theres a lot of folk treading water just about able to pay the mortgage. The extras are killing them.

Maybe you forget that during the bubble the house prices were ridiculous. People were living beyond their means I agree but with no end in to the price rises tried to get on the ladder before prices went completely out of reach.

Same people lost their jobs after the bust. They may be debt if they sell their house and homeless to boot- a real catch 22.

Does that not register with you at all?

So you want to abolish the property tax rather than give an exemption say for someone who's on welfare??

Abolition of the property tax will only benefit the wealthiest in the society - do you disagree with that??

I never mentioned property tax. You went off on your own tangent there.

I referred to the issue of people struggling to pay a mortgage (or not being able to pay). You must only have wealthy friends in your circle if it's never been mentioned before.

The usual gobshites like Rossfan think all these new charges brought in by government don't put extra strain on families (and I'm talking about proud people who don't ever want to resort to the welfare state in case you keep bringing up arguments about those who don't want employment).

I mentioned property tax and that abolishing it is a ridiculous policy. You replied and I presumed from your response that you were in favour of abolishing it.

Perhaps I was incorrect and you AREN'T in favour of abolishing it??

Or you have no position on the policy and were just randomly replying to posts about the property tax

If you actually read my post again I said people had difficulty paying their mortages, nevermind the extras.

You mentioned in earlier ramblings USC, Property Tax, Water Tax, Motor Tax - I merely pointed out people may not have the capacity to pay.

Just give the government all your money. You know you want to. Simples.

Hmm, you replied to a post where I was discussing the property tax, apologies for assuming that your point was also related to that subject matter.

I never mentioned USC, water tax or anything else. It's a pretty simple point I'm making here fox - the policy of many parties to abolish the property tax is a ridiculous policy, imo of course. What's your view on abolition of the property tax? A fair policy?

As our great leader once said said

"It is morally unjust and unfair to tax a person's home, and by so doing grind him into the ground. Indeed in cases it could probably be unconstitutional"
"It reminds me of a vampire tax in that it drives a stake through the heart of home ownership, through enthusiasm and initiative, and sucks the life blood of people who want to own their own home and better their position"
"If the Government fail to appreciate the passion with which people will defend their rights to own their home and have it looking as well as it should, it is making a serious mistake"
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 09:18:43 PM
I never mentioned USC, water tax or anything else. It's a pretty simple point I'm making here fox - the policy of many parties to abolish the property tax is a ridiculous policy, imo of course. What's your view on abolition of the property tax? A fair policy?

I see it as a despicable measure introduced to raise funds for the government due to their incompetence.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 09:47:50 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 09:31:26 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 09:13:42 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 08:54:22 PM
You spend 500k on an asset thats now worth 300k you are down 200k + the interest on 500k.  Someone who has no house is technically better off. His point was about wealth. If you're net assets are -200+ k you wouldn't be considered wealthy.

Who's the "his" you're talking about?? Did you forget to log into your other account?

Anyway, now you want to change the discussion to be about wealth?? And your point is basically that homeless people are wealthier than those in negative equity??

I made a point about the abolition of the property tax being a stupid proposal. Now you apparently disagree with that because.......??
Jesus wept. His point was that anyone who owns a house is wealthy and should be able to afford property tax. Im saying that's not necessarily the case. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

Who is the "he" you're on about??

No, I (or "he" maybe?) said that anyone who owns a house is reasonably well off and aren't the poorest in society. Now you've replied talking about negative equity and the value of assets but NOTHING to do with why these people AREN'T the better off in society?? Or do you think that anyone whose liabilities outweigh their assets are poor? You seem to think that homeowners are worse off than those who don't own homes and that they shouldn't have to pay this big bad tax, is that correct?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 09:55:50 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 09:47:50 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 09:31:26 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 09:13:42 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 08:54:22 PM
You spend 500k on an asset thats now worth 300k you are down 200k + the interest on 500k.  Someone who has no house is technically better off. His point was about wealth. If you're net assets are -200+ k you wouldn't be considered wealthy.

Who's the "his" you're talking about?? Did you forget to log into your other account?

Anyway, now you want to change the discussion to be about wealth?? And your point is basically that homeless people are wealthier than those in negative equity??

I made a point about the abolition of the property tax being a stupid proposal. Now you apparently disagree with that because.......??
Jesus wept. His point was that anyone who owns a house is wealthy and should be able to afford property tax. Im saying that's not necessarily the case. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

Who is the "he" you're on about??

No, I (or "he" maybe?) said that anyone who owns a house is reasonably well off and aren't the poorest in society. Now you've replied talking about negative equity and the value of assets but NOTHING to do with why these people AREN'T the better off in society?? Or do you think that anyone whose liabilities outweigh their assets are poor? You seem to think that homeowners are worse off than those who don't own homes and that they shouldn't have to pay this big bad tax, is that correct?
Where have I said they shouldn't pay property tax? You said anyone who owns a house is well off. That is wrong. I've clearly explained why you're wrong. I understand you don't want to admit that so will leave it at that.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 10:15:15 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 09:55:50 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 09:47:50 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 09:31:26 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 09:13:42 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 08:54:22 PM
You spend 500k on an asset thats now worth 300k you are down 200k + the interest on 500k.  Someone who has no house is technically better off. His point was about wealth. If you're net assets are -200+ k you wouldn't be considered wealthy.

Who's the "his" you're talking about?? Did you forget to log into your other account?

Anyway, now you want to change the discussion to be about wealth?? And your point is basically that homeless people are wealthier than those in negative equity??

I made a point about the abolition of the property tax being a stupid proposal. Now you apparently disagree with that because.......??
Jesus wept. His point was that anyone who owns a house is wealthy and should be able to afford property tax. Im saying that's not necessarily the case. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

Who is the "he" you're on about??

No, I (or "he" maybe?) said that anyone who owns a house is reasonably well off and aren't the poorest in society. Now you've replied talking about negative equity and the value of assets but NOTHING to do with why these people AREN'T the better off in society?? Or do you think that anyone whose liabilities outweigh their assets are poor? You seem to think that homeowners are worse off than those who don't own homes and that they shouldn't have to pay this big bad tax, is that correct?
Where have I said they shouldn't pay property tax? You said anyone who owns a house is well off. That is wrong. I've clearly explained why you're wrong. I understand you don't want to admit that so will leave it at that.

I never said you said any such thing mike, I ("he") asked you a question about your opinion on paying/abolishing property tax is though - that's what the "?" signifies! I'm interested to know your opinion on whether abolishing the property tax is a good policy? You see, that was my original statement (that it's a rubbish policy) and when you replied, I assumed you had a position on it.

It turns out both mike & Foxy automatically disagree with anyone who is against abolishing property tax but for some reason, neither are willing to explain why or to actually give their own opinion on the matter....

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 10:25:55 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 10:15:15 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 09:55:50 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 09:47:50 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 09:31:26 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 09:13:42 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 18, 2016, 08:54:22 PM
You spend 500k on an asset thats now worth 300k you are down 200k + the interest on 500k.  Someone who has no house is technically better off. His point was about wealth. If you're net assets are -200+ k you wouldn't be considered wealthy.

Who's the "his" you're talking about?? Did you forget to log into your other account?

Anyway, now you want to change the discussion to be about wealth?? And your point is basically that homeless people are wealthier than those in negative equity??

I made a point about the abolition of the property tax being a stupid proposal. Now you apparently disagree with that because.......??
Jesus wept. His point was that anyone who owns a house is wealthy and should be able to afford property tax. Im saying that's not necessarily the case. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

Who is the "he" you're on about??

No, I (or "he" maybe?) said that anyone who owns a house is reasonably well off and aren't the poorest in society. Now you've replied talking about negative equity and the value of assets but NOTHING to do with why these people AREN'T the better off in society?? Or do you think that anyone whose liabilities outweigh their assets are poor? You seem to think that homeowners are worse off than those who don't own homes and that they shouldn't have to pay this big bad tax, is that correct?
Where have I said they shouldn't pay property tax? You said anyone who owns a house is well off. That is wrong. I've clearly explained why you're wrong. I understand you don't want to admit that so will leave it at that.

I never said you said any such thing mike, I ("he") asked you a question about your opinion on paying/abolishing property tax is though - that's what the "?" signifies! I'm interested to know your opinion on whether abolishing the property tax is a good policy? You see, that was my original statement (that it's a rubbish policy) and when you replied, I assumed you had a position on it.

It turns out both mike & Foxy automatically disagree with anyone who is against abolishing property tax but for some reason, neither are willing to explain why or to actually give their own opinion on the matter....
The only thing I've disagreed with you on is that anyone who owns a home is well off and should have no problem paying property tax.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 10:29:54 PM
Sound, you don't disagree with my opinion that abolition of the property tax is a stupid policy so
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 09:18:07 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 10:29:54 PM
Sound, you don't disagree with my opinion that abolition of the property tax is a stupid policy so

I have no problem paying property tax. Local authorities need funding. My major isssue is with how Fine Gael have favoured the wealthy over the poor since they got into power. The cronyism, secrecy over NAMA, IBRC and debt write downs for their buddies, Siteserve and Irish Water, treatment of Guarda whistle-blowers. Trying to discredit anyone asking legitimate questions in the Dail, Claire Daly being arrested and hand-cuffed. Irish Water protestors up in court on a regular basis while no one accountable for white collar crime. Blaming Fianna Fail for everything even though we know that if Fine Gael had been in power the crash would have been as bad. Christ even Labour were screaming for Fianna Fail to spend more during the boom.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 02:07:16 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 18, 2016, 10:15:15 PM

It turns out both mike & Foxy automatically disagree with anyone who is against abolishing property tax but for some reason, neither are willing to explain why or to actually give their own opinion on the matter....

Why was this property tax introduced in 2013? Be honest.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on February 19, 2016, 05:09:57 PM
To increase tax take and to broaden the tax base. AFAIK, it was a troika "recommendation"

I presume you have some other more elaborate reason to tell me about.....
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 05:26:11 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 19, 2016, 05:09:57 PM
To increase tax take and to broaden the tax base. AFAIK, it was a troika "recommendation"

I presume you have some other more elaborate reason to tell me about.....

And why the need to increase the tax take?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 05:26:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 18, 2016, 08:43:54 PM
(http://i3.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/article4783754.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Capuchin1.jpg)

Daily queues at Capuchin Day Centre, Bow St, Dublin.

This is Ireland.

This appeared today

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/recession-is-getting-worse-not-better-says-homeless-charity-312936.html

Let's keep the recovery going
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 06:08:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 05:26:11 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 19, 2016, 05:09:57 PM
To increase tax take and to broaden the tax base. AFAIK, it was a troika "recommendation"

I presume you have some other more elaborate reason to tell me about.....

And why the need to increase the tax take?
Because the country was running a deficit.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 06:11:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 06:08:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 05:26:11 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 19, 2016, 05:09:57 PM
To increase tax take and to broaden the tax base. AFAIK, it was a troika "recommendation"

I presume you have some other more elaborate reason to tell me about.....

And why the need to increase the tax take?
Because the country was running a deficit.

And why was that?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 06:24:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 06:11:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 06:08:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 05:26:11 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 19, 2016, 05:09:57 PM
To increase tax take and to broaden the tax base. AFAIK, it was a troika "recommendation"

I presume you have some other more elaborate reason to tell me about.....

And why the need to increase the tax take?
Because the country was running a deficit.

And why was that?
You tell me.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 06:34:45 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 06:24:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 06:11:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 06:08:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 05:26:11 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 19, 2016, 05:09:57 PM
To increase tax take and to broaden the tax base. AFAIK, it was a troika "recommendation"

I presume you have some other more elaborate reason to tell me about.....

And why the need to increase the tax take?
Because the country was running a deficit.

And why was that?
You tell me.

Lads, could you help out Maguire?

(http://img2.thejournal.ie/article/1201793/river?version=1212528&width=630)

errrrrrrrr
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2016, 07:17:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 06:24:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 06:11:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 06:08:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 05:26:11 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 19, 2016, 05:09:57 PM
To increase tax take and to broaden the tax base. AFAIK, it was a troika "recommendation"

I presume you have some other more elaborate reason to tell me about.....

And why the need to increase the tax take?
Because the country was running a deficit.

And why was that?
You tell me.

Public Financing for the IQ challenged ;D
Should ask Gerry Adams - he can abolish loads of taxes  AND improve public services plus provide instant public health care for all, hire 20,000 public employees and build thousands of houses :o
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 07:33:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2016, 07:17:55 PM
Public Financing for the IQ challenged


You might want to take some English lessons  :-*
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 07:36:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 06:34:45 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 06:24:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 06:11:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 06:08:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 05:26:11 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 19, 2016, 05:09:57 PM
To increase tax take and to broaden the tax base. AFAIK, it was a troika "recommendation"

I presume you have some other more elaborate reason to tell me about.....

And why the need to increase the tax take?
Because the country was running a deficit.

And why was that?
You tell me.

Lads, could you help out Maguire?

(http://img2.thejournal.ie/article/1201793/river?version=1212528&width=630)

errrrrrrrr

Because Ireland Inc were borrowing at 6.5% and lending to the Irish elite at 1.5%. Taxpayers through new charges were footung the bill for the difference.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 07:56:55 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 07:36:30 PM

Because Ireland Inc were borrowing at 6.5% and lending to the Irish elite at 1.5%. Taxpayers through new charges were footung the bill for the difference.


Awww Mike - I was waiting for Maguire to tell me that. I got so close too.
Spoil my fun why don't you.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 08:40:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 07:56:55 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 07:36:30 PM

Because Ireland Inc were borrowing at 6.5% and lending to the Irish elite at 1.5%. Taxpayers through new charges were footung the bill for the difference.


Awww Mike - I was waiting for Maguire to tell me that. I got so close too.
Spoil my fun why don't you.
Ah now Commander you know you'd be waiting for Maguire to answer a tricky question about FG's record in govt.  Keep the recovery going is the best you'll get out of him.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on February 19, 2016, 09:07:48 PM
Is the answer, "seven... ehhhh seven... around fifty nine"?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 09:07:59 PM
Ireland was spending more than it was taking in. Its income was reliant on a narrow tax base and exposed to the property crash. Tax therefore had to be increased, and / or expenditure cut, to balance. It also made sense that the tax base was broadened.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 09:09:39 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 08:40:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 07:56:55 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 07:36:30 PM

Because Ireland Inc were borrowing at 6.5% and lending to the Irish elite at 1.5%. Taxpayers through new charges were footung the bill for the difference.


Awww Mike - I was waiting for Maguire to tell me that. I got so close too.
Spoil my fun why don't you.
Ah now Commander you know you'd be waiting for Maguire to answer a tricky question about FG's record in govt.  Keep the recovery going is the best you'll get out of him.
I don't believe i've said that once.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 09:58:44 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 08:40:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 07:56:55 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 07:36:30 PM

Because Ireland Inc were borrowing at 6.5% and lending to the Irish elite at 1.5%. Taxpayers through new charges were footung the bill for the difference.


Awww Mike - I was waiting for Maguire to tell me that. I got so close too.
Spoil my fun why don't you.
Ah now Commander you know you'd be waiting for Maguire to answer a tricky question about FG's record in govt.  Keep the recovery going is the best you'll get out of him.

I know, I know. Maguire will just keep regurgitating the buzzwords.

Even Enda finds his manifesto it hard to believe. The cover says "Less waste, Lower Taxes, Stronger Growth".

Or is that a fairytale book?

(https://static-secure.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pixies/2011/2/14/1297705233867/Enda-Kenny--007.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 10:22:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 09:09:39 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 08:40:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 07:56:55 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 07:36:30 PM

Because Ireland Inc were borrowing at 6.5% and lending to the Irish elite at 1.5%. Taxpayers through new charges were footung the bill for the difference.


Awww Mike - I was waiting for Maguire to tell me that. I got so close too.
Spoil my fun why don't you.
Ah now Commander you know you'd be waiting for Maguire to answer a tricky question about FG's record in govt.  Keep the recovery going is the best you'll get out of him.
I don't believe i've said that once.
There are quite a lot of things you haven't said. Like your opinion on state sponsored debt write downs to the elite? Do you think this helped narrow the deficit?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 10:57:55 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 10:22:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 09:09:39 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 08:40:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 07:56:55 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 07:36:30 PM

Because Ireland Inc were borrowing at 6.5% and lending to the Irish elite at 1.5%. Taxpayers through new charges were footung the bill for the difference.


Awww Mike - I was waiting for Maguire to tell me that. I got so close too.
Spoil my fun why don't you.
Ah now Commander you know you'd be waiting for Maguire to answer a tricky question about FG's record in govt.  Keep the recovery going is the best you'll get out of him.
I don't believe i've said that once.
There are quite a lot of things you haven't said. Like your opinion on state sponsored debt write downs to the elite? Do you think this helped narrow the deficit?
So if you haven't explicitly said you're disagree with something, you must agree with it? Well I don't. And no, it hardly helped narrow the deficit. But changes to taxes and public expenditure were still going to be required. Hence the likes of property tax.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2016, 11:19:14 PM
Property taxes and charges for public water/sewerage -  a feature of most modern European social democracies.
Brought in here as a result of the Troika bail out caused by HarneyMcCreevyist neo liberalism which narrowed the tax base to house building taxes on artificially inflated prices for houses nobody needed and nobody could afford.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2016, 10:56:15 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 10:57:55 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 10:22:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 19, 2016, 09:09:39 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 08:40:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 19, 2016, 07:56:55 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 19, 2016, 07:36:30 PM

Because Ireland Inc were borrowing at 6.5% and lending to the Irish elite at 1.5%. Taxpayers through new charges were footung the bill for the difference.


Awww Mike - I was waiting for Maguire to tell me that. I got so close too.
Spoil my fun why don't you.
Ah now Commander you know you'd be waiting for Maguire to answer a tricky question about FG's record in govt.  Keep the recovery going is the best you'll get out of him.
I don't believe i've said that once.
There are quite a lot of things you haven't said. Like your opinion on state sponsored debt write downs to the elite? Do you think this helped narrow the deficit?
So if you haven't explicitly said you're disagree with something, you must agree with it? Well I don't. And no, it hardly helped narrow the deficit. But changes to taxes and public expenditure were still going to be required. Hence the likes of property tax.
Do you agree with the water tax and how Irish Water has been run? What's your thoughts on Siteserve and the way state contracts were awarded to it. How it was purchased by Dennis O Brien just prior to contracts being awarded? Do you think these type if actions have helped reduce the deficit? I would suggest deficit has increased because of Irish Water. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 20, 2016, 10:59:20 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2016, 11:19:14 PM
Property taxes and charges for public water/sewerage -  a feature of most modern European social democracies.
Brought in here as a result of the Troika bail out caused by HarneyMcCreevyist neo liberalism which narrowed the tax base to house building taxes on artificially inflated prices for houses nobody needed and nobody could afford.
+1
W**kers the lot of them.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hardy on February 20, 2016, 08:25:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2016, 11:19:14 PM
Property taxes and charges for public water/sewerage -  a feature of most modern European social democracies.
Brought in here as a result of the Troika bail out caused by HarneyMcCreevyist neo liberalism which narrowed the tax base to house building taxes on artificially inflated prices for houses nobody needed and nobody could afford.

Be fair. We needed those houses for the workers who were coming here to build houses.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2016, 09:00:23 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 20, 2016, 08:25:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2016, 11:19:14 PM
Property taxes and charges for public water/sewerage -  a feature of most modern European social democracies.
Brought in here as a result of the Troika bail out caused by HarneyMcCreevyist neo liberalism which narrowed the tax base to house building taxes on artificially inflated prices for houses nobody needed and nobody could afford.

Be fair. We needed those houses for the workers who were coming here to build houses.
A lot of them still empty waiting for the Poles to come.........
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 22, 2016, 04:30:13 PM
http://www.thejournal.ie/tom-hayes-posters-trees-2616731-Feb2016/

ELECTION POSTERS FOR Fine Gael TD and junior minister with responsibility for forestry, horticulture and food safety, Tom Hayes, were spotted nailed to trees along a road in Clonmel, Tipperary.

The issue was first raised by local Sinn Féin councillor Séamie Morris who said: "Such disregard for natural life from supporters of the outgoing minister is particularly disappointing as the minister has special responsibility for forestry, and because some of the trees are ash".
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 22, 2016, 04:46:47 PM
Kinda ironic a Sinn Fein peron talking about regard for life!

Someone in FG headquarters need to muzzle Enda Kenny
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AZOffaly on February 22, 2016, 06:02:57 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 22, 2016, 04:30:13 PM
http://www.thejournal.ie/tom-hayes-posters-trees-2616731-Feb2016/

ELECTION POSTERS FOR Fine Gael TD and junior minister with responsibility for forestry, horticulture and food safety, Tom Hayes, were spotted nailed to trees along a road in Clonmel, Tipperary.

The issue was first raised by local Sinn Féin councillor Séamie Morris who said: "Such disregard for natural life from supporters of the outgoing minister is particularly disappointing as the minister has special responsibility for forestry, and because some of the trees are ash".

I'm despairing of my vote. Tipperary might have the worst candidates in the country.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 23, 2016, 02:03:16 PM
Regina Doherty - Fine Gael TD for Meath East thinks that people in the north deserved to be shot by loyalists.
Probably thinks those killed and injured in the Dublin/Monaghan bombings deserved it too.

I really hope she loses her seat.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: haranguerer on February 23, 2016, 02:39:58 PM
This doll?
http://www.independent.ie/business/small-business/fine-gael-tds-firm-folds-with-debts-of-280000-29021682.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hound on February 23, 2016, 03:48:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2016, 02:03:16 PM
Regina Doherty - Fine Gael TD for Meath East thinks that people in the north deserved to be shot by loyalists.
Probably thinks those killed and injured in the Dublin/Monaghan bombings deserved it too.

I really hope she loses her seat.
Needn't worry. The Shinners will sort her out

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/regina-doherty-reports-death-threats-to-gardai-after-radio-debate-with-sinn-feins-gerry-adams-721969.html

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 23, 2016, 03:57:20 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 23, 2016, 03:48:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2016, 02:03:16 PM
Regina Doherty - Fine Gael TD for Meath East thinks that people in the north deserved to be shot by loyalists.
Probably thinks those killed and injured in the Dublin/Monaghan bombings deserved it too.

I really hope she loses her seat.
Needn't worry. The Shinners will sort her out

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/regina-doherty-reports-death-threats-to-gardai-after-radio-debate-with-sinn-feins-gerry-adams-721969.html

Going by her own logic if it happens will it be her own fault?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 23, 2016, 03:59:12 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on February 23, 2016, 02:39:58 PM
This doll?
http://www.independent.ie/business/small-business/fine-gael-tds-firm-folds-with-debts-of-280000-29021682.html

Not so good at telling the truth. But please vote for her!!!!
If she's that good at business you certainly want her in the dail looking after the country.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 23, 2016, 04:03:30 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on February 23, 2016, 03:57:20 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 23, 2016, 03:48:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2016, 02:03:16 PM
Regina Doherty - Fine Gael TD for Meath East thinks that people in the north deserved to be shot by loyalists.
Probably thinks those killed and injured in the Dublin/Monaghan bombings deserved it too.

I really hope she loses her seat.
Needn't worry. The Shinners will sort her out

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/regina-doherty-reports-death-threats-to-gardai-after-radio-debate-with-sinn-feins-gerry-adams-721969.html

Going by her own logic if it happens will it be her own fault?

LOL!!! You're right...

If someone did call her then I hope they get caught. No place for those types of threats.

On the other hand there are some murky spin-doctors out there. Might not be the first time Regina told a white lie about something.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Crete Boom on February 23, 2016, 04:04:41 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 23, 2016, 03:48:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2016, 02:03:16 PM
Regina Doherty - Fine Gael TD for Meath East thinks that people in the north deserved to be shot by loyalists.
Probably thinks those killed and injured in the Dublin/Monaghan bombings deserved it too.

I really hope she loses her seat.
Needn't worry. The Shinners will sort her out

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/regina-doherty-reports-death-threats-to-gardai-after-radio-debate-with-sinn-feins-gerry-adams-721969.html

Didn't she get caught out making up supposed death threats before??
I am no fan of the Shinners (mainly for their economic policies) but in fairness what she said on that radio show was shameful and ridiculous!!!.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on February 23, 2016, 04:13:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 23, 2016, 03:59:12 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on February 23, 2016, 02:39:58 PM
This doll?
http://www.independent.ie/business/small-business/fine-gael-tds-firm-folds-with-debts-of-280000-29021682.html

Not so good at telling the truth. But please vote for her!!!!
If she's that good at business you certainly want her in the dail looking after the country.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/bank-pursues-junior-minister-over-2-5m-loans-1.1469034

http://lovindublin.com/ge16/this-fine-gael-td-was-reportedly-caught-stealing-his-opponents-leaflets-and-ended-up-in-a-garda-car

She's in good company. Minister for Small Business being chased by the banks. Minister for Forestry nailing election posters to trees. The Irish political equivalent of Phoenix Nights.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 23, 2016, 04:19:13 PM
Phoenix nights alright!!

Here's Dara Murphy on Vincent Browne. He's right you know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEcUBXI4ZX8

(https://blog.kloodle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/young_kenny.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Declan on February 23, 2016, 06:32:11 PM
Regina Doherty is in a battle with SF for the last seat in Meath East so expect anything to happen in terms of messaging over the last few days from both sides
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: haranguerer on February 23, 2016, 06:58:31 PM
Heard her remarks on the last word. What a tr**p. Also notable that on the last word they said they were 'both being a bit disingenuous there' re her comments, and spent the rest of the time talking about the supposed death threat to the tr**p
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 23, 2016, 09:58:55 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on February 23, 2016, 06:58:31 PM
Heard her remarks on the last word. What a tr**p. Also notable that on the last word they said they were 'both being a bit disingenuous there' re her comments, and spent the rest of the time talking about the supposed death threat to the tr**p

Whose remarks?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 24, 2016, 04:20:32 AM
and this is why Fine Gael want to recruit more gardai

(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12715212_1015126635214815_7092846050734853305_n.jpg?oh=b996c3dca2eecc019848e2cf5444b554&oe=5764FD04)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Harold Disgracey on February 25, 2016, 01:36:44 PM
So much for Leo Varadkar coming across as a decent individual.

https://twitter.com/campaignforleo/status/702523651082551298
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: deiseach on February 25, 2016, 01:56:33 PM
Drawing the fury of Michael Finucance, no less. Leo should have Desmond de Silva conduct a review of his tweets.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 25, 2016, 10:16:29 PM
Varadkar getting a far too easy ride as health minister in my opinion.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 26, 2016, 02:23:33 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 25, 2016, 01:56:33 PM
Drawing the fury of Michael Finucance, no less. Leo should have Desmond de Silva conduct a review of his tweets.

For the sake of a sly dig that posting will follow him throughout his career. Very stupid. I thought he would have been above it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 10:44:10 AM
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/03/01/spotlight-falls-on-noonan/

It's a disgrace that State owned assets are being sold at massive discounts while the country's public services are in the sh!t. Homelessness and patients on trollies at an all time high. That's why these new taxes are needed, not because of the Troika but because the rich need bailing out. Gullible clowns then sneer at people who rightly protest at this and refuse to pay the Water Tax. It's only a pity this came out yesterday. Criminal cases likely to be broughT in the UK and US but only a commission of inquiry set up here.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 01, 2016, 11:45:31 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 10:44:10 AM
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/03/01/spotlight-falls-on-noonan/

It's a disgrace that State owned assets are being sold at massive discounts while the country's public services are in the sh!t.

Are State assets being sold at massive discounts? The are being sold at a discount on what someone said they were worth in 2008, but my house is not worth what it was in 2008 and I'm sure these properties are the same.

The real disgrace is that people prefer to campaign to refuse to pay for services than to have proper ones.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 12:18:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2016, 11:45:31 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 10:44:10 AM
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/03/01/spotlight-falls-on-noonan/

It's a disgrace that State owned assets are being sold at massive discounts while the country's public services are in the sh!t.

Are State assets being sold at massive discounts? The are being sold at a discount on what someone said they were worth in 2008, but my house is not worth what it was in 2008 and I'm sure these properties are the same.

The real disgrace is that people prefer to campaign to refuse to pay for services than to have proper ones.

Incorrect, they were sold well below Market Value, if you take the time to read the article it will explain it for you.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 01, 2016, 12:37:12 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 12:18:55 PM
Incorrect, they were sold well below Market Value, if you take the time to read the article it will explain it for you.

Perhaps you would like to point out where it says that?
Robbo wanted the properties sold for £1 billion to PIMCO, NAMA wanted them sold on the open market and got £1.3 billion. If they were worth more presumably someone would have bid more for them.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 12:55:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2016, 12:37:12 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 12:18:55 PM
Incorrect, they were sold well below Market Value, if you take the time to read the article it will explain it for you.

Perhaps you would like to point out where it says that?
Robbo wanted the properties sold for £1 billion to PIMCO, NAMA wanted them sold on the open market and got £1.3 billion. If they were worth more presumably someone would have bid more for them.

How many are in a position to make bids for that kind of money? If you take the time to read the article properly it clearly implies that a better price could have been sought. One property sold by Nama in 2012 on Mount Street for 27m was sold on for 42m less than 2 years later. If you believe there is nothing improper going on then why are there criminal charges in the UK and the US but not in Ireland where the actual owners of the assess were based? Can you answer that? Can you answer why NAMA refused to go to Stormont to answer questions on the sale?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 01, 2016, 01:44:15 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 12:55:35 PM
How many are in a position to make bids for that kind of money? If you take the time to read the article properly it clearly implies that a better price could have been sought. One property sold by Nama in 2012 on Mount Street for 27m was sold on for 42m less than 2 years later. If you believe there is nothing improper going on then why are there criminal charges in the UK and the US but not in Ireland where the actual owners of the assess were based? Can you answer that? Can you answer why NAMA refused to go to Stormont to answer questions on the sale?

I am not a property expert, perhaps the NI properties would have fetched more if broken into smaller lots, perhaps not. But the fact that they were not does not necessarily imply impropriety. Likewise there may be case that NAMA should hold on to properties longer, rather than trying to get their money, but in 2012 money was short and money now may have seemed preferable, this not necessarily imply impropriety. As far as I can see the criminality took place between persons in NI and companies in the US, so that is where the charges should be.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on March 01, 2016, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2016, 12:37:12 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 12:18:55 PM
Incorrect, they were sold well below Market Value, if you take the time to read the article it will explain it for you.

Perhaps you would like to point out where it says that?
Robbo wanted the properties sold for £1 billion to PIMCO, NAMA wanted them sold on the open market and got £1.3 billion. If they were worth more presumably someone would have bid more for them.

The portfolio was not offered to the open market which was supposedly one of the NAMA terms in order to get the best deal for the Irish tax payer. Both Primco and cerberus were lined up.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 02:07:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2016, 01:44:15 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 12:55:35 PM
How many are in a position to make bids for that kind of money? If you take the time to read the article properly it clearly implies that a better price could have been sought. One property sold by Nama in 2012 on Mount Street for 27m was sold on for 42m less than 2 years later. If you believe there is nothing improper going on then why are there criminal charges in the UK and the US but not in Ireland where the actual owners of the assess were based? Can you answer that? Can you answer why NAMA refused to go to Stormont to answer questions on the sale?

I am not a property expert, perhaps the NI properties would have fetched more if broken into smaller lots, perhaps not. But the fact that they were not does not necessarily imply impropriety. Likewise there may be case that NAMA should hold on to properties longer, rather than trying to get their money, but in 2012 money was short and money now may have seemed preferable, this not necessarily imply impropriety. As far as I can see the criminality took place between persons in NI and companies in the US, so that is where the charges should be.

So if they had nothing to hide why did they not go to Stormont? If there's nothing to hide why are they so determined to try to stop any info getting in to the public domain.

http://www.thejournal.ie/nama-appeal-environmental-information-requests-811828-Feb2013/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on March 01, 2016, 02:22:59 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on March 01, 2016, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2016, 12:37:12 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 12:18:55 PM
Incorrect, they were sold well below Market Value, if you take the time to read the article it will explain it for you.

Perhaps you would like to point out where it says that?
Robbo wanted the properties sold for £1 billion to PIMCO, NAMA wanted them sold on the open market and got £1.3 billion. If they were worth more presumably someone would have bid more for them.

The portfolio was not offered to the open market which was supposedly one of the NAMA terms in order to get the best deal for the Irish tax payer. Both Primco and cerberus were lined up.

According to this article, the was at least 9 bidders and it was open market.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/how-it-all-unfolded-nama-project-eagle-341782.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 02:56:57 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 01, 2016, 02:22:59 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on March 01, 2016, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2016, 12:37:12 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 12:18:55 PM
Incorrect, they were sold well below Market Value, if you take the time to read the article it will explain it for you.

Perhaps you would like to point out where it says that?
Robbo wanted the properties sold for £1 billion to PIMCO, NAMA wanted them sold on the open market and got £1.3 billion. If they were worth more presumably someone would have bid more for them.

The portfolio was not offered to the open market which was supposedly one of the NAMA terms in order to get the best deal for the Irish tax payer. Both Primco and cerberus were lined up.

According to this article, the was at least 9 bidders and it was open market.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/how-it-all-unfolded-nama-project-eagle-341782.html
Open market for Hedge Funds. Not quite the same thung.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on March 01, 2016, 03:05:13 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 02:56:57 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 01, 2016, 02:22:59 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on March 01, 2016, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2016, 12:37:12 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 12:18:55 PM
Incorrect, they were sold well below Market Value, if you take the time to read the article it will explain it for you.

Perhaps you would like to point out where it says that?
Robbo wanted the properties sold for £1 billion to PIMCO, NAMA wanted them sold on the open market and got £1.3 billion. If they were worth more presumably someone would have bid more for them.

The portfolio was not offered to the open market which was supposedly one of the NAMA terms in order to get the best deal for the Irish tax payer. Both Primco and cerberus were lined up.

According to this article, the was at least 9 bidders and it was open market.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/how-it-all-unfolded-nama-project-eagle-341782.html
Open market for Hedge Funds. Not quite the same thung.

Well it was Irish property owners borrowing money from banks (money they could never pay back) that screwed the taxpayer in the first place. Did you want to go down that road again and repeat the cycle?

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: haranguerer on March 01, 2016, 03:13:24 PM
Lot of lads very keen to defend NAMA and the government here. Bizarre
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 01, 2016, 03:22:04 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 01, 2016, 03:13:24 PM
Lot of lads very keen to defend NAMA and the government here. Bizarre

What should NAMA have done differently?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 03:24:50 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 01, 2016, 03:05:13 PM


Well it was Irish property owners borrowing money from banks (money they could never pay back) that screwed the taxpayer in the first place. Did you want to go down that road again and repeat the cycle?

Unlike you I wouldn't be an advocate of Paddy economics. I would prefer if they bought low and sold high. Without wanting to go into the paying Bondholders debate again, the decision to turn private debt into sovereign debt was what screwed the taxpayer, not the actual developers. Bondholders were receiving a premium for the risk associated with lending to these developers.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 04:11:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2016, 03:22:04 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 01, 2016, 03:13:24 PM
Lot of lads very keen to defend NAMA and the government here. Bizarre

What should NAMA have done differently?

Transparency would have been a start. Maybe not hire the likes of Johnny Ronan and his ilk at over 200k a year. And remember these are the things we know about, fcuk knows what else lurks beneath. When I hear "commercially sensitive" I immediately smell a rat. Sometimes wish I was naive like you and I wouldn't get so annoyed.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Mayo4Sam on March 03, 2016, 05:30:43 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 04:11:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2016, 03:22:04 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 01, 2016, 03:13:24 PM
Lot of lads very keen to defend NAMA and the government here. Bizarre

What should NAMA have done differently?

Transparency would have been a start. Maybe not hire the likes of Johnny Ronan and his ilk at over 200k a year. And remember these are the things we know about, fcuk knows what else lurks beneath. When I hear "commercially sensitive" I immediately smell a rat. Sometimes wish I was naive like you and I wouldn't get so annoyed.

I'm sorry, what?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 11:21:23 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 03, 2016, 05:30:43 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 04:11:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2016, 03:22:04 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 01, 2016, 03:13:24 PM
Lot of lads very keen to defend NAMA and the government here. Bizarre

What should NAMA have done differently?

Transparency would have been a start. Maybe not hire the likes of Johnny Ronan and his ilk at over 200k a year. And remember these are the things we know about, fcuk knows what else lurks beneath. When I hear "commercially sensitive" I immediately smell a rat. Sometimes wish I was naive like you and I wouldn't get so annoyed.

I'm sorry, what?

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/thanks-nama-for-having-us-pay-developers-to-sort-out-their-debts-26789282.html

Did you not know this???
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 04, 2016, 12:28:43 PM
Citing a Brendan O'Connor article on NAMA is like referencing Ray Darcy on the Higg's Boson.

NAMA was inevitable once Cowan and Lenihan made the bonkers Bank Guarantee decision. You can dispute elements of the way it is run (e.g. the secrecy Lenihan wrote into the legislation is disgraceful), but calling for it to be closed down now, as O'Connor does, is idiotic. For example, NAMA's debt isn't on the Government's books, but they would be instantly if we shut it down. Our National Debt would soar overnight.

It is too late now, but I thought the way it was set up was a conjob on taxpayers. For example (wild example not to be taken literally), if a bank had a balance sheet of €100B and half of that was toxic loans in property, here is (to a simple layman like myself) what happened. The state forced the bank to sell the toxic €50B to NAMA, with a much publicised 'haircut'. So NAMA paid (say) €30B and we were told that the lower price was good for us the taxpayer. Of course the value of the property was far less than €30B and NAMA's job was to find a way (secretly of course) to raise the value of the portfolio and get money back for the taxpayer. This naturally was a disaster for the taxpayer, but we were told it was all good.

But there was another problem that seemed to get missed. When NAMA paid this fictitious bank €30B for a €50B portfolio, the bank's balance sheet was down €20B. So the Government (taxpayer) made up the difference to 'recapitalise' the bank. Thus the €50B (on toxic loans) that was removed from the bank's balance sheet was replaced by €30B from NAMA (taxpayers head on the block) and €20B from the Government to recapitalise (taxpayers head on the block).

I accept the above is an over-simplistic view of what went on and the reality was far more complicated, but I would argue that much of the complication was artificial and deliberately added (like the secrecy) to divert the ordinary punters interest elsewhere. Most of us don't bothering questioning things we don't understand.

As for hiring developers, while it is certainly galling, who else would you hire to take on these failed massive property schemes and turn them into something with value? (Serious question btw - there may be a better answer than what NAMA did but it isn't obvious). To me paying the Irish developers who know the trade is a teeny, tiny problem in comparison to what went on earlier.

It is a bit like doing nothing at the time of the Bank Guarantee, nothing at the time of the Bailout, and then throwing a missive tantrum over Irish Water. The Troika and Government mandarins must be quietly laughing at our stupidity and predictability.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 02:43:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 12:28:43 PM
Citing a Brendan O'Connor article on NAMA is like referencing Ray Darcy on the Higg's Boson.

Apologies oh wise one, I will say ten Hail Muppet's and self flagulate for the next 15 minutes. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 04, 2016, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 02:43:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 12:28:43 PM
Citing a Brendan O'Connor article on NAMA is like referencing Ray Darcy on the Higg's Boson.

Apologies oh wise one, I will say ten Hail Muppet's and self flagulate for the next 15 minutes.

I'd suggest 45 minutes, at least.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 03:02:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2016, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 02:43:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 12:28:43 PM
Citing a Brendan O'Connor article on NAMA is like referencing Ray Darcy on the Higg's Boson.

Apologies oh wise one, I will say ten Hail Muppet's and self flagulate for the next 15 minutes.

I'd suggest 45 minutes, at least.
You overthrow muppet as the intellectual and moral Oracle of the board then you shall have your wish.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 04, 2016, 03:08:55 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 02:43:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 12:28:43 PM
Citing a Brendan O'Connor article on NAMA is like referencing Ray Darcy on the Higg's Boson.

Apologies oh wise one, I will say ten Hail Muppet's and self flagulate for the next 15 minutes.

That is your best response?

Ok let's try this.

In the link you posted O'Connor said we should close NAMA immediately. He doesn't bother with considering the consequences, but then he writes for the Indo.

Do you think we should close NAMA immediately and if so take us through your idea of dealing with the consequences?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: NAG1 on March 04, 2016, 03:09:32 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 11:21:23 AM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on March 03, 2016, 05:30:43 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 01, 2016, 04:11:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2016, 03:22:04 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 01, 2016, 03:13:24 PM
Lot of lads very keen to defend NAMA and the government here. Bizarre

What should NAMA have done differently?

Transparency would have been a start. Maybe not hire the likes of Johnny Ronan and his ilk at over 200k a year. And remember these are the things we know about, fcuk knows what else lurks beneath. When I hear "commercially sensitive" I immediately smell a rat. Sometimes wish I was naive like you and I wouldn't get so annoyed.

I'm sorry, what?

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/thanks-nama-for-having-us-pay-developers-to-sort-out-their-debts-26789282.html

Did you not know this???

Great piece.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 03:08:55 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 02:43:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 12:28:43 PM
Citing a Brendan O'Connor article on NAMA is like referencing Ray Darcy on the Higg's Boson.

Apologies oh wise one, I will say ten Hail Muppet's and self flagulate for the next 15 minutes.

That is your best response?

Ok let's try this.

In the link you posted O'Connor said we should close NAMA immediately. He doesn't bother with considering the consequences, but then he writes for the Indo.

Do you think we should close NAMA immediately and if so take us through your idea of dealing with the consequences?

Someone asked about a statement I made where I mentioned failed developers receiving 200k a year from Nama. The link was in response to the enquiry.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 04, 2016, 03:25:31 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 03:22:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 03:08:55 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 02:43:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 12:28:43 PM
Citing a Brendan O'Connor article on NAMA is like referencing Ray Darcy on the Higg's Boson.

Apologies oh wise one, I will say ten Hail Muppet's and self flagulate for the next 15 minutes.

That is your best response?

Ok let's try this.

In the link you posted O'Connor said we should close NAMA immediately. He doesn't bother with considering the consequences, but then he writes for the Indo.

Do you think we should close NAMA immediately and if so take us through your idea of dealing with the consequences?

Someone asked about a statement I made where I mentioned failed developers receiving 200k a year from Nama. The link was in response to the enquiry.

Fair enough, but that isn't all O'Connor said in his piece.

You also called Armaghniac naive.

Can you please explain why he is naive, presumably about NAMA, and you aren't? What are we all missing?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Declan on March 04, 2016, 03:32:26 PM
I always enjoyed reading https://namawinelake.wordpress.com/ (https://namawinelake.wordpress.com/) and the https://twitter.com/namawinelake (https://twitter.com/namawinelake) always gives you food for thought
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 04, 2016, 03:36:34 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 04, 2016, 03:32:26 PM
I always enjoyed reading https://namawinelake.wordpress.com/ (https://namawinelake.wordpress.com/) and the https://twitter.com/namawinelake (https://twitter.com/namawinelake) always gives you food for thought

Yes it was very, very good. I never understood why he shut down the blog.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 03:40:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 03:36:34 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 04, 2016, 03:32:26 PM
I always enjoyed reading https://namawinelake.wordpress.com/ (https://namawinelake.wordpress.com/) and the https://twitter.com/namawinelake (https://twitter.com/namawinelake) always gives you food for thought

Yes it was very, very good. I never understood why he shut down the blog.

He was silenced.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 04, 2016, 03:43:35 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 03:40:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 03:36:34 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 04, 2016, 03:32:26 PM
I always enjoyed reading https://namawinelake.wordpress.com/ (https://namawinelake.wordpress.com/) and the https://twitter.com/namawinelake (https://twitter.com/namawinelake) always gives you food for thought

Yes it was very, very good. I never understood why he shut down the blog.

He was silenced.

And that is why he still posts on twitter, including 8 tweets today alone?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 03:46:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 03:25:31 PM


Fair enough, but that isn't all O'Connor said in his piece.

You also called Armaghniac naive.

Can you please explain why he is naive, presumably about NAMA, and you aren't? What are we all missing?

He's an Irish Water apologist. Naïve in the extreme as is anyone who backed that joke of a superquango.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on March 04, 2016, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 03:08:55 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 02:43:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 12:28:43 PM
Citing a Brendan O'Connor article on NAMA is like referencing Ray Darcy on the Higg's Boson.

Apologies oh wise one, I will say ten Hail Muppet's and self flagulate for the next 15 minutes.

That is your best response?

Ok let's try this.

In the link you posted O'Connor said we should close NAMA immediately. He doesn't bother with considering the consequences, but then he writes for the Indo.

Do you think we should close NAMA immediately and if so take us through your idea of dealing with the consequences?

If you actually read the article, he doesn't propose to close NAMA now.  He says that for some reasons it should be shut now, but we can't because it's now 'too big to fail'.  Which is essentially what you are saying I think.  If you actually read the piece without prejudice it's a real eye-opener.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 03:51:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 03:43:35 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 03:40:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 03:36:34 PM
Quote from: Declan on March 04, 2016, 03:32:26 PM
I always enjoyed reading https://namawinelake.wordpress.com/ (https://namawinelake.wordpress.com/) and the https://twitter.com/namawinelake (https://twitter.com/namawinelake) always gives you food for thought

Yes it was very, very good. I never understood why he shut down the blog.

He was silenced.

And that is why he still posts on twitter, including 8 tweets today alone?

I'd heard he was getting heat for what he was putting on the blog.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 04, 2016, 03:54:59 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 03:46:15 PM
He's an Irish Water apologist. Naïve in the extreme as is anyone who backed that joke of a superquango.

My only connection with Irish Water is that  I consume several glasses of their produce each day.

I am not an "apologist" for Irish Water. The way it was set up was a disgrace, especially in the middle of a recession. Nevertheless, a water utility is a sensible move and notwithstanding the bollix setting it up it should remain and be made as efficient as possible.   
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 04, 2016, 03:57:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 12:28:43 PM
It is a bit like doing nothing at the time of the Bank Guarantee, nothing at the time of the Bailout, and then throwing a missive tantrum over Irish Water. The Troika and Government mandarins must be quietly laughing at our stupidity and predictability.

Then we have the pygmy brained Sinn Pain and the Anti everything loonies and the Millionaire private school educated Murphy who claim to be Socialists.
Yet they ignore the awful wrongs of homelessness, families living in hotel room etc not to mention the everyday Health Service crisis upon crisis, people dying on waiting lists etc, job bridge, zero hour contracts and so on 
but
get totally wound up over townies being asked to pay a nett €3 a week towards their public water supply and sewerage.
The bankers and mandarins and all the rest sure are laughing alright.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 04, 2016, 04:02:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 04, 2016, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 03:08:55 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 02:43:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 12:28:43 PM
Citing a Brendan O'Connor article on NAMA is like referencing Ray Darcy on the Higg's Boson.

Apologies oh wise one, I will say ten Hail Muppet's and self flagulate for the next 15 minutes.

That is your best response?

Ok let's try this.

In the link you posted O'Connor said we should close NAMA immediately. He doesn't bother with considering the consequences, but then he writes for the Indo.

Do you think we should close NAMA immediately and if so take us through your idea of dealing with the consequences?

If you actually read the article, he doesn't propose to close NAMA now.  He says that for some reasons it should be shut now, but we can't because it's now 'too big to fail'.  Which is essentially what you are saying I think.  If you actually read the piece without prejudice it's a real eye-opener.

'Too big to fail' is a derogatory term, and explains nothing. For a start, it hasn't 'failed' in any financial sense.

NAMA has actually done ok. Don't get me wrong, I am not defending what brought it about, nor the secrecy under which it is run and the basic conning of the taxpayer when it was set up. But for those charged with running it, it has done ok imho.

As for Brendan O'Connor, read this and smile: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/the-smart-ballsy-guys-are-buying-up-property-right-now-26307728.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/the-smart-ballsy-guys-are-buying-up-property-right-now-26307728.html)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 04:10:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2016, 03:54:59 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 03:46:15 PM
He's an Irish Water apologist. Naïve in the extreme as is anyone who backed that joke of a superquango.

My only connection with Irish Water is that  I consume several glasses of their produce each day.

I am not an "apologist" for Irish Water. The way it was set up was a disgrace, especially in the middle of a recession. Nevertheless, a water utility is a sensible move and notwithstanding the bollix setting it up it should remain and be made as efficient as possible.

Will you be out protesting for a refund?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on March 04, 2016, 09:40:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 04:02:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 04, 2016, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 03:08:55 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 02:43:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 12:28:43 PM
Citing a Brendan O'Connor article on NAMA is like referencing Ray Darcy on the Higg's Boson.

Apologies oh wise one, I will say ten Hail Muppet's and self flagulate for the next 15 minutes.

That is your best response?

Ok let's try this.

In the link you posted O'Connor said we should close NAMA immediately. He doesn't bother with considering the consequences, but then he writes for the Indo.

Do you think we should close NAMA immediately and if so take us through your idea of dealing with the consequences?

If you actually read the article, he doesn't propose to close NAMA now.  He says that for some reasons it should be shut now, but we can't because it's now 'too big to fail'.  Which is essentially what you are saying I think.  If you actually read the piece without prejudice it's a real eye-opener.

'Too big to fail' is a derogatory term, and explains nothing. For a start, it hasn't 'failed' in any financial sense.

NAMA has actually done ok. Don't get me wrong, I am not defending what brought it about, nor the secrecy under which it is run and the basic conning of the taxpayer when it was set up. But for those charged with running it, it has done ok imho.

As for Brendan O'Connor, read this and smile: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/the-smart-ballsy-guys-are-buying-up-property-right-now-26307728.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/the-smart-ballsy-guys-are-buying-up-property-right-now-26307728.html)

Yeah, in fairness that article does make him sound like a bit of a pillock. Though had it been written in 2009/2010 it might not have been far off the mark. Anyone who bought in Dublin at that time is looking at a 30-40% gain right now. And that's with the cheapest borrowed money in history. Anyway, it doesn't really matter what 'too big to fail' means. You said that he stated that NAMA should be shut immediately, when he clearly didn't. He basically said he'd love to, but the reality of the situation means we can't. O'Connor seems to be adept enough at making himself look foolish without your help. 
Also, could you explain how you think that NAMA have done OK? They took a load of property at below market rates at the time, held onto it until the market rose (safe in the knowledge that they couldn't lose, no matter what happened) and offloaded it at the break even point when the market allowed them to do so. The whole Cerberus/Project Eagle deal makes me suspect that the current NAMA are every bit as bad as the sliveen developers and politicians who sunk the ship in the first place. Except this time they're doing it with your money and have government support and a cloud of legislative smoke within which to operate to keep a questioning public at arms length.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on March 04, 2016, 10:08:37 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 04, 2016, 09:40:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 04:02:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 04, 2016, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 03:08:55 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 04, 2016, 02:43:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on March 04, 2016, 12:28:43 PM
Citing a Brendan O'Connor article on NAMA is like referencing Ray Darcy on the Higg's Boson.

Apologies oh wise one, I will say ten Hail Muppet's and self flagulate for the next 15 minutes.

That is your best response?

Ok let's try this.

In the link you posted O'Connor said we should close NAMA immediately. He doesn't bother with considering the consequences, but then he writes for the Indo.

Do you think we should close NAMA immediately and if so take us through your idea of dealing with the consequences?

If you actually read the article, he doesn't propose to close NAMA now.  He says that for some reasons it should be shut now, but we can't because it's now 'too big to fail'.  Which is essentially what you are saying I think.  If you actually read the piece without prejudice it's a real eye-opener.

'Too big to fail' is a derogatory term, and explains nothing. For a start, it hasn't 'failed' in any financial sense.

NAMA has actually done ok. Don't get me wrong, I am not defending what brought it about, nor the secrecy under which it is run and the basic conning of the taxpayer when it was set up. But for those charged with running it, it has done ok imho.

As for Brendan O'Connor, read this and smile: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/the-smart-ballsy-guys-are-buying-up-property-right-now-26307728.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/the-smart-ballsy-guys-are-buying-up-property-right-now-26307728.html)

Yeah, in fairness that article does make him sound like a bit of a pillock. Though had it been written in 2009/2010 it might not have been far off the mark. Anyone who bought in Dublin at that time is looking at a 30-40% gain right now. And that's with the cheapest borrowed money in history. Anyway, it doesn't really matter what 'too big to fail' means. You said that he stated that NAMA should be shut immediately, when he clearly didn't. He basically said he'd love to, but the reality of the situation means we can't. O'Connor seems to be adept enough at making himself look foolish without your help. 
Also, could you explain how you think that NAMA have done OK? They took a load of property at below market rates at the time, held onto it until the market rose (safe in the knowledge that they couldn't lose, no matter what happened) and offloaded it at the break even point when the market allowed them to do so. The whole Cerberus/Project Eagle deal makes me suspect that the current NAMA are every bit as bad as the sliveen developers and politicians who sunk the ship in the first place. Except this time they're doing it with your money and have government support and a cloud of legislative smoke within which to operate to keep a questioning public at arms length.

That is not correct. They took a load of property loans off the banks, using borrowed money guaranteed by us, but it certainly wasn't market rate. There was no market and some of the property they had to take was worthless. I am sure there were some properties that might have been close to market rate, but it is debatable if there was even a market then. Some of the properties have never recovered to market rate.

As for O'Connor, this is what he said:

QuoteOn that score Nama has undoubtedly failed and so it should be shut down now.

But Nama, like so many finance behemoths before, is too big to fail now.

He clearly states that it shut down, but reckons that it can't because it is too big to fail. Firstly it hasn't failed. Secondly it is a lot smaller than it used to be and is getting smaller every year.

Finally the reason he gave for announcing that it has failed, in his view, was "The central purpose of Nama, which admittedly doesn't get mentioned much anymore, was to provide for a functioning banking system and to ensure the flow of credit in the economy."

This is very lazy analysis. The function of NAMA was to remove the toxic loans from the banks. Further to that it was hoped by Lenihan, Cowan and the mandarins of the Dept of Finance etc that this would allow the banks covered by The Guarantee to start functioning again. What has failed is not NAMA, it is the banks and the rest of the plan.

I hate that NAMA was foisted upon us, at our risk, but we shouldn't kick the people that work there who have by and large done exactly what they were told to do, and actually succeeded. The lack of flow of credit in the economy has nothing to do with NAMA, it has everything to do with the ECB, Irish Central Bank, Dept of Finance etc.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on March 25, 2016, 12:24:28 PM
http://www.thejournal.ie/john-perry-wife-2001142-Mar2015/

Quotes from this year old article :

"Transport Minister Paschal Donohoe believes TDs should not appoint family members as parliamentary assistants"

"Speaking in Brussels this afternoon, Taoiseach Enda Kenny said he did not think it was "a wise thing for politicians to appoint family members"".

One year later....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2016/revealed-fg-tds-appoint-relatives-as-their-dil-assistants-34571302.html

New politics, new way of doing things?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on March 25, 2016, 07:13:29 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on March 25, 2016, 12:24:28 PM
http://www.thejournal.ie/john-perry-wife-2001142-Mar2015/

Quotes from this year old article :

"Transport Minister Paschal Donohoe believes TDs should not appoint family members as parliamentary assistants"

"Speaking in Brussels this afternoon, Taoiseach Enda Kenny said he did not think it was "a wise thing for politicians to appoint family members"".

One year later....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2016/revealed-fg-tds-appoint-relatives-as-their-dil-assistants-34571302.html

New politics, new way of doing things?

When the Shinners get into Government I wonder if the legions of community workers employed will be from within the ranks of ex-armed robbers/misc violent thugs or will they be selected on merit in an open competition?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 06, 2016, 07:19:16 PM
So here's the Line-up of Fine Gael GFC (Greedy F****** C ****)

1. Communications - Denis Naughten
2. Regional Development, Rural Affairs and Arts and Culture - Heather Humphreys
3. Jobs - Mary Mitchell O'Connor
4. Public Expenditure and Reform - Paschal Donohoe
5. Foreign Affairs - Charlie Flanagan
6. Defence - The Taoiseach (captain)
7. Education & Skills - Richard Bruton
8. Justice - Frances Fitzgerald (vice-captain)
9. Housing - Simon Coveney
10. Children - Katherine Zappone
11. Social Protection - Leo Varadkar
12. Agriculture - Michael Creed
13. Health - Simon Harris
14. Finance - Michael Noonan
15. Transport - Shane Ross

16. Super Junior Disabilty - Finian McGrath

Fitzgerald is now Tainiste. And there was me thinking that the lovely girl from Donegal, FF's Mary Coughlan was the worst ever. How wrong can you be?

Mary Mitchell O'Connor. Holy fook.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: yellowcard on May 06, 2016, 08:02:03 PM
This has the potential to be entertaining given the reshuffle. Ross as minister for transport, holy fcuk!! O'Connor and Fitzgerald are selected to bring up the quota but are poor choices. God help Harris getting the health poisoned chalice.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on May 06, 2016, 08:04:08 PM
I'm surprised Kenny didn't give her transport after her Top Gear escapade at the start of the last Dail. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 06, 2016, 08:13:41 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on May 06, 2016, 08:04:08 PM
I'm surprised Kenny didn't give her transport after her Top Gear escapade at the start of the last Dail.

That would have been too funny.

Still one of my favourites
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gulc2nw4oro
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 08, 2016, 01:43:53 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13177218_1768482050052177_2368307351678732271_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=70b28446d9ae5f4e0fd62f58f6562c48&oe=579E3863)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 08, 2016, 01:49:59 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 08, 2016, 01:43:53 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13177218_1768482050052177_2368307351678732271_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=70b28446d9ae5f4e0fd62f58f6562c48&oe=579E3863)

I think this constant reference to SF is sometimes a bit over the top.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trileacman on May 09, 2016, 12:14:13 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 08, 2016, 01:43:53 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13177218_1768482050052177_2368307351678732271_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=70b28446d9ae5f4e0fd62f58f6562c48&oe=579E3863)

I grow really, really f**king tired of this constant sneering and derision of democraticaly elected politicians. Fair enough when they f**k it up but when they're all constantly painted as greedy feckless w@nkers it has now become cemented in the mindset of the population as if it's fact. Politicians are like footballers or hurlers, a pretty accurate representation of Irish people. Some of them are w@nkers, some of them are stupid but a fair few are decent hard-working and compassionate individuals.

The way democracy and politicians are mocked and derided almost constantly nowadays does rile me. I wonder do those who spend so much of their time ridiculing democracy favour an Ireland where we toil under a monarchy or dictatorship. This is how we chose to be ruled, show me a better alternative.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 09, 2016, 12:22:02 AM
Better than the alternatives anyway - North Korea. Saudi Arabia, Bahrain......
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 09, 2016, 12:49:56 AM
Quote from: trileacman on May 09, 2016, 12:14:13 AM
I grow really, really f**king tired of this constant sneering and derision of democraticaly elected politicians. Fair enough when they f**k it up but when they're all constantly painted as greedy feckless w@nkers it has now become cemented in the mindset of the population as if it's fact. Politicians are like footballers or hurlers, a pretty accurate representation of Irish people. Some of them are w@nkers, some of them are stupid but a fair few are decent hard-working and compassionate individuals.

The way democracy and politicians are mocked and derided almost constantly nowadays does rile me. I wonder do those who spend so much of their time ridiculing democracy favour an Ireland where we toil under a monarchy or dictatorship. This is how we chose to be ruled, show me a better alternative.

There is some truth in this point, but Irish politicians have perpetuated a dysfunctional culture that does not serve the country well. Like the Donegal team circa 2009, they could do a lot better.

And since this is the Fine Gael thread, they are a good example. They promised a new policy on openness etc, which they conveniently forgot when they were elected and despite all of the turmoil in the country we got Irish Water, which should have been a model of new way of doing things but was the very opposite.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 09, 2016, 02:59:28 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 09, 2016, 12:14:13 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 08, 2016, 01:43:53 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13177218_1768482050052177_2368307351678732271_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=70b28446d9ae5f4e0fd62f58f6562c48&oe=579E3863)

I grow really, really f**king tired of this constant sneering and derision of democraticaly elected politicians. Fair enough when they f**k it up but when they're all constantly painted as greedy feckless w@nkers it has now become cemented in the mindset of the population as if it's fact. Politicians are like footballers or hurlers, a pretty accurate representation of Irish people. Some of them are w@nkers, some of them are stupid but a fair few are decent hard-working and compassionate individuals.

The way democracy and politicians are mocked and derided almost constantly nowadays does rile me. I wonder do those who spend so much of their time ridiculing democracy favour an Ireland where we toil under a monarchy or dictatorship. This is how we chose to be ruled, show me a better alternative.


Oh boo feckin hoo Trileacman. What a load of cr@p.
They don't have to try to be painted as greedy feckless w@nkers , they just are. Decent hard working and compassionate individuals??? what drugs are you on?

They deserve the flak they get due to the awful decisions they make. Or would you prefer silence for some reason?
Not hard to guess how you voted in the election.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Declan on May 09, 2016, 03:15:36 PM
Figures from the recent election

Total electorate - 3,298,827
Total poll - 2,151,293
Didn't vote - 1,147,534

65.2% turnout

A significant number of people don't bother to participate and in Dublin Central the turnout was 52.4% because they know it's not worth voting?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 09, 2016, 04:01:50 PM
Some of the Electorate and I suspect a higher proportion in Dublin Central wouldn't be eligible to vote in Dàil Elections.
Only Irish or Brit citizens can vote in Dàil elections.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Declan on May 09, 2016, 04:12:05 PM
They are the eligible figures from the CSO after this years election and only 52.4% of those in Dublin Central voted
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 09, 2016, 04:18:23 PM
QuoteThis is how we chose to be ruled, show me a better alternative.

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/cp0/e15/q65/s600x600/13173868_1031999096888625_2406176928850204082_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=5c3869d3c56da7a982fcd1afb18dccc5&oe=57B2A7BB)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 09, 2016, 07:21:52 PM
Quote from: Declan on May 09, 2016, 04:12:05 PM
They are the eligible figures from the CSO after this years election and only 52.4% of those in Dublin Central voted

The electoral register in the 26 counties in rag order.  You have people living in Australia for the last 5 years and still on the register, and it was this that allowed a lot of illegal voting by non residents in the marriage devaluation referendum. You have people registered twice, and if these only vote once it creates "low" turnout.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on May 09, 2016, 07:29:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 09, 2016, 07:21:52 PM
Quote from: Declan on May 09, 2016, 04:12:05 PM
They are the eligible figures from the CSO after this years election and only 52.4% of those in Dublin Central voted

The electoral register in the 26 counties in rag order.  You have people living in Australia for the last 5 years and still on the register, and it was this that allowed a lot of illegal voting by non residents in the marriage devaluation referendum. You have people registered twice, and if these only vote once it creates "low" turnout.

Are you suggesting that the result was altered by fraud?

Please post some evidence in your reply if you are.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 09, 2016, 07:30:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 09, 2016, 07:29:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 09, 2016, 07:21:52 PM
Quote from: Declan on May 09, 2016, 04:12:05 PM
They are the eligible figures from the CSO after this years election and only 52.4% of those in Dublin Central voted

The electoral register in the 26 counties in rag order.  You have people living in Australia for the last 5 years and still on the register, and it was this that allowed a lot of illegal voting by non residents in the marriage devaluation referendum. You have people registered twice, and if these only vote once it creates "low" turnout.

Are you suggesting that the result was altered by fraud?

No


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 09, 2016, 07:59:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 09, 2016, 07:21:52 PM
Quote from: Declan on May 09, 2016, 04:12:05 PM
They are the eligible figures from the CSO after this years election and only 52.4% of those in Dublin Central voted

The electoral register in the 26 counties in rag order.  You have people living in Australia for the last 5 years and still on the register,
It needs to be centralised and be linked to PPS numbers.
As it is each Council does their own and have no way of knowing if someone is also on other Councils' registers.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Maguire01 on May 09, 2016, 08:47:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 09, 2016, 07:30:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 09, 2016, 07:29:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 09, 2016, 07:21:52 PM
Quote from: Declan on May 09, 2016, 04:12:05 PM
They are the eligible figures from the CSO after this years election and only 52.4% of those in Dublin Central voted

The electoral register in the 26 counties in rag order.  You have people living in Australia for the last 5 years and still on the register, and it was this that allowed a lot of illegal voting by non residents in the marriage devaluation referendum. You have people registered twice, and if these only vote once it creates "low" turnout.

Are you suggesting that the result was altered by fraud?

No
You referred to illegal voting, but you're not suggesting fraud. How does that work?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 09, 2016, 08:50:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 09, 2016, 08:47:41 PM
You referred to illegal voting, but you're not suggesting fraud. How does that work?

Muppet asked if the result was affected by fraud, I said no. I didn't say there wasn't any fraud.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 11, 2016, 12:43:19 PM
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13174227_1188943667807255_1366741518969516618_n.jpg?oh=ab64b31b5896b8c12148bfa3139a3107&oe=57AA5000)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on May 11, 2016, 01:02:18 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2016, 12:43:19 PM
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13174227_1188943667807255_1366741518969516618_n.jpg?oh=ab64b31b5896b8c12148bfa3139a3107&oe=57AA5000)

No to Enterprise (successful or not). Yes to community workers paid by someone else.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ashman on May 11, 2016, 01:24:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2016, 12:43:19 PM
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13174227_1188943667807255_1366741518969516618_n.jpg?oh=ab64b31b5896b8c12148bfa3139a3107&oe=57AA5000)

No fan of the woman but ffs did you ever hear of limited liability etc .

Do you Shinnerbots have any facility to think for yourself ??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 11, 2016, 02:50:14 PM
Shinnerbots are not allowed to think.
If they did they wouldn't be shinnerbots.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on May 11, 2016, 02:55:41 PM
Quote from: ashman on May 11, 2016, 01:24:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2016, 12:43:19 PM
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13174227_1188943667807255_1366741518969516618_n.jpg?oh=ab64b31b5896b8c12148bfa3139a3107&oe=57AA5000)

No fan of the woman but ffs did you ever hear of limited liability etc .

Do you Shinnerbots have any facility to think for yourself ??

I'd prefer if a failed business person refrained from lecturing me on what bills I should pay. Especially one that indirectly owed the state money while on the other hand receiving money from the state. A sponger is the term these types are labelled.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ashman on May 11, 2016, 03:18:48 PM
Her business failed .  These things do happen and will continue to happen .

Her political career is a seperate matter , and remember she has a "mandate ".  She requested people pay what the democratically elected government decided should be paid .

Folk playing the woman , not the ball.

I take it you ain't fond of Mr Wallace's views either ???
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 11, 2016, 04:15:15 PM
Sinn Féin in the 26 Cos gone very quiet lately.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 11, 2016, 04:22:48 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on May 11, 2016, 02:55:41 PM
Quote from: ashman on May 11, 2016, 01:24:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2016, 12:43:19 PM
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13174227_1188943667807255_1366741518969516618_n.jpg?oh=ab64b31b5896b8c12148bfa3139a3107&oe=57AA5000)

No fan of the woman but ffs did you ever hear of limited liability etc .

Do you Shinnerbots have any facility to think for yourself ??

I'd prefer if a failed business person refrained from lecturing me on what bills I should pay. Especially one that indirectly owed the state money while on the other hand receiving money from the state. A sponger is the term these types are labelled.

It's ok to walk away from your debts of 280,000 euro because this is imaginary money owed to to banks that were bailed out themselves with imaginary money that came from pixieland.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 11, 2016, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: ashman on May 11, 2016, 03:18:48 PM
Her business failed .  These things do happen and will continue to happen .

Her political career is a seperate matter , and remember she has a "mandate ".  She requested people pay what the democratically elected government decided should be paid .

Folk playing the woman , not the ball.

So you think someone who 'failed' like Regina Doherty should be one of the people in charge of the country?
It shouldn't make anyone very comfortable that such a "businesswoman" holds such power in the state with that track record.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Declan on May 11, 2016, 05:23:46 PM
QuoteSo you think someone who 'failed' like Regina Doherty should be one of the people in charge of the country?
It shouldn't make anyone very comfortable that such a "businesswoman" holds such power in the state with that track record.

Ah sure being a failed businessperson hasn't restricted the great Donald from getting close to running the great USofA ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 12, 2016, 09:53:43 AM
Heard some Leftie whinger on RTÉ radio last night moaning that we now have a right wing Government.
What did he expect when the people elected about 110 centrist/rightist TDs followed by SF and loonies saying they wouldn't join any Government with right wingers.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on May 12, 2016, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2016, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: ashman on May 11, 2016, 03:18:48 PM
Her business failed .  These things do happen and will continue to happen .

Her political career is a seperate matter , and remember she has a "mandate ".  She requested people pay what the democratically elected government decided should be paid .

Folk playing the woman , not the ball.

So you think someone who 'failed' like Regina Doherty should be one of the people in charge of the country?
It shouldn't make anyone very comfortable that such a "businesswoman" holds such power in the state with that track record.

Clearly the people who elected her believe that - it's called Democracy.

The other option is to have some unelected shadowy council run by nice rural men calling the shots.

Are there any other arms of the democratic state you don't believe in? The Gardai? The Defence forces?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on May 12, 2016, 10:18:55 AM
Quote from: heffo on May 12, 2016, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2016, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: ashman on May 11, 2016, 03:18:48 PM
Her business failed .  These things do happen and will continue to happen .

Her political career is a seperate matter , and remember she has a "mandate ".  She requested people pay what the democratically elected government decided should be paid .

Folk playing the woman , not the ball.

So you think someone who 'failed' like Regina Doherty should be one of the people in charge of the country?
It shouldn't make anyone very comfortable that such a "businesswoman" holds such power in the state with that track record.

Clearly the people who elected her believe that - it's called Democracy.

The other option is to have some unelected shadowy council run by nice rural men calling the shots.

Are there any other arms of the democratic state you don't believe in? The Gardai? The Defence forces?

He is attacking her, and will continue to attack her over and over, because of her idiotic attack on Gerry Adams. But he denies membership of the Gerry Adams fan club.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 10:34:36 AM
Quote from: heffo on May 12, 2016, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2016, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: ashman on May 11, 2016, 03:18:48 PM
Her business failed .  These things do happen and will continue to happen .

Her political career is a seperate matter , and remember she has a "mandate ".  She requested people pay what the democratically elected government decided should be paid .

Folk playing the woman , not the ball.

So you think someone who 'failed' like Regina Doherty should be one of the people in charge of the country?
It shouldn't make anyone very comfortable that such a "businesswoman" holds such power in the state with that track record.

Clearly the people who elected her believe that - it's called Democracy.

The other option is to have some unelected shadowy council run by nice rural men calling the shots.

Are there any other arms of the democratic state you don't believe in? The Gardai? The Defence forces?
Democratic election decided that the water tax was a tax too far. She still doesn't get it. No surprise she failed as a business person if she can't grasp a simple concept like that.  She's still pissing against the wind.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on May 12, 2016, 10:53:47 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 10:34:36 AM
Quote from: heffo on May 12, 2016, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2016, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: ashman on May 11, 2016, 03:18:48 PM
Her business failed .  These things do happen and will continue to happen .

Her political career is a seperate matter , and remember she has a "mandate ".  She requested people pay what the democratically elected government decided should be paid .

Folk playing the woman , not the ball.

So you think someone who 'failed' like Regina Doherty should be one of the people in charge of the country?
It shouldn't make anyone very comfortable that such a "businesswoman" holds such power in the state with that track record.

Clearly the people who elected her believe that - it's called Democracy.

The other option is to have some unelected shadowy council run by nice rural men calling the shots.

Are there any other arms of the democratic state you don't believe in? The Gardai? The Defence forces?
Democratic election decided that the water tax was a tax too far. She still doesn't get it. No surprise she failed as a business person if she can't grasp a simple concept like that.  She's still pissing against the wind.

I think you need to have a rethink on what democracy actually involves.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Ulick on May 12, 2016, 11:01:53 AM
Quote from: ashman on May 11, 2016, 01:24:52 PM

No fan of the woman but ffs did you ever hear of limited liability etc .

Do you Shinnerbots have any facility to think for yourself ??

Maybe, but...
1. Independent auditors found that Regina Doherty did not adhere to proper bookkeeping procedures prior to the insolvency (an offense under the Companies Act) 
2. She used company funds to pay for non-company related personal expenses
3. She did not disclose her Directorship of this company after becoming a TD
4. She lied about receiving death threats on social media
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 11:21:48 AM
Quote from: heffo on May 12, 2016, 10:53:47 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 10:34:36 AM
Quote from: heffo on May 12, 2016, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2016, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: ashman on May 11, 2016, 03:18:48 PM
Her business failed .  These things do happen and will continue to happen .

Her political career is a seperate matter , and remember she has a "mandate ".  She requested people pay what the democratically elected government decided should be paid .

Folk playing the woman , not the ball.

So you think someone who 'failed' like Regina Doherty should be one of the people in charge of the country?
It shouldn't make anyone very comfortable that such a "businesswoman" holds such power in the state with that track record.

Clearly the people who elected her believe that - it's called Democracy.

The other option is to have some unelected shadowy council run by nice rural men calling the shots.

Are there any other arms of the democratic state you don't believe in? The Gardai? The Defence forces?
Democratic election decided that the water tax was a tax too far. She still doesn't get it. No surprise she failed as a business person if she can't grasp a simple concept like that.  She's still pissing against the wind.

I think you need to have a rethink on what democracy actually involves.

Blueshirts had no choice but to get rid of water tax. Democratic election was the reason for the u turn. You struggling to get it like Regina?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on May 12, 2016, 11:35:16 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 11:21:48 AM
Quote from: heffo on May 12, 2016, 10:53:47 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 10:34:36 AM
Quote from: heffo on May 12, 2016, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2016, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: ashman on May 11, 2016, 03:18:48 PM
Her business failed .  These things do happen and will continue to happen .

Her political career is a seperate matter , and remember she has a "mandate ".  She requested people pay what the democratically elected government decided should be paid .

Folk playing the woman , not the ball.

So you think someone who 'failed' like Regina Doherty should be one of the people in charge of the country?
It shouldn't make anyone very comfortable that such a "businesswoman" holds such power in the state with that track record.

Clearly the people who elected her believe that - it's called Democracy.

The other option is to have some unelected shadowy council run by nice rural men calling the shots.

Are there any other arms of the democratic state you don't believe in? The Gardai? The Defence forces?
Democratic election decided that the water tax was a tax too far. She still doesn't get it. No surprise she failed as a business person if she can't grasp a simple concept like that.  She's still pissing against the wind.

I think you need to have a rethink on what democracy actually involves.

Blueshirts had no choice but to get rid of water tax. Democratic election was the reason for the u turn. You struggling to get it like Regina?

She put herself forward for election and was elected.

In your mind, are we now in a dystopian Sinn Fein-esque future where democratically elected politicians are not allowed voice their opinions?

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 01:36:24 PM
Maybe I missed her opinion on the massive debt write downs and state contracts awarded to friends of Blueshirt Inc. She is your typical FG mouth. Arrogant 'do as I say attitude' dripping with hypocrisy. You give a dig to Wallace while backing  Doherty's 'mandate'. Admirable whataboutery. Wallace has done great work in the Dail re Garda whistleblowers and Nama. Doherty spends her time attacking Sinn Fein and hypocritically telling people to pay their bills.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on May 12, 2016, 02:49:21 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 01:36:24 PM
Maybe I missed her opinion on the massive debt write downs and state contracts awarded to friends of Blueshirt Inc. She is your typical FG mouth. Arrogant 'do as I say attitude' dripping with hypocrisy. You give a dig to Wallace while backing  Doherty's 'mandate'. Admirable whataboutery. Wallace has done great work in the Dail re Garda whistleblowers and Nama. Doherty spends her time attacking Sinn Fein and hypocritically telling people to pay their bills.

Again that's democracy - you're free to criticise her opinions. Free to tell others not to vote for her next time.

Just like Sinn Fein are free to criticise the Govt's social housing policy while objecting to the building of social houses (See Dublin Mid-West before Christmas) at the same time.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 02:55:31 PM
Quote from: heffo on May 12, 2016, 02:49:21 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 01:36:24 PM
Maybe I missed her opinion on the massive debt write downs and state contracts awarded to friends of Blueshirt Inc. She is your typical FG mouth. Arrogant 'do as I say attitude' dripping with hypocrisy. You give a dig to Wallace while backing  Doherty's 'mandate'. Admirable whataboutery. Wallace has done great work in the Dail re Garda whistleblowers and Nama. Doherty spends her time attacking Sinn Fein and hypocritically telling people to pay their bills.

Again that's democracy - you're free to criticise her opinions. Free to tell others not to vote for her next time.

Just like Sinn Fein are free to criticise the Govt's social housing policy while objecting to the building of social houses (See Dublin Mid-West before Christmas) at the same time.

Please keep on topic. This is about Doherty and her hypocrisy, not Sinn Fein. What was her opinion on large debt write downs, Moriarty etc?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 12, 2016, 03:03:03 PM
The €3 a week public water charge that SF and the loonyleft have saved for middle class town and city dwellers ( who wouldn't vote for either lot) would have amounted to around €200m.
This figure has now to come from other public monies.
That would have built around 1,000 social houses which would be the kind of thing real socialist and left wingers would be doing.

But nit in Paddyfantasyland. No!
Better to have thousands in emergency accommodation so pygmy brained politicians can lick middle class arses.

As for Regina - pain in the butt but Shinnerbots may have a bigger problem.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: heffo on May 12, 2016, 03:14:44 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 02:55:31 PM
Quote from: heffo on May 12, 2016, 02:49:21 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 01:36:24 PM
Maybe I missed her opinion on the massive debt write downs and state contracts awarded to friends of Blueshirt Inc. She is your typical FG mouth. Arrogant 'do as I say attitude' dripping with hypocrisy. You give a dig to Wallace while backing  Doherty's 'mandate'. Admirable whataboutery. Wallace has done great work in the Dail re Garda whistleblowers and Nama. Doherty spends her time attacking Sinn Fein and hypocritically telling people to pay their bills.

Again that's democracy - you're free to criticise her opinions. Free to tell others not to vote for her next time.

Just like Sinn Fein are free to criticise the Govt's social housing policy while objecting to the building of social houses (See Dublin Mid-West before Christmas) at the same time.

Please keep on topic. This is about Doherty and her hypocrisy, not Sinn Fein. What was her opinion on large debt write downs, Moriarty etc?

I've no idea what her opinion is, nor do I care - I didn't vote for her.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Canalman on May 12, 2016, 03:27:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2016, 03:03:03 PM
The €3 a week public water charge that SF and the loonyleft have saved for middle class town and city dwellers ( who wouldn't vote for either lot) would have amounted to around €200m.
This figure has now to come from other public monies.
That would have built around 1,000 social houses which would be the kind of thing real socialist and left wingers would be doing.

But nit in Paddyfantasyland. No!
Better to have thousands in emergency accommodation so pygmy brained politicians can lick middle class arses.





As for Regina - pain in the butt but Shinnerbots may have a bigger problem.



And there was me thinking it was FF and FG  in the last couple of weeks that put them on hold.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hound on May 12, 2016, 03:28:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 12, 2016, 10:18:55 AM
Quote from: heffo on May 12, 2016, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2016, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: ashman on May 11, 2016, 03:18:48 PM
Her business failed .  These things do happen and will continue to happen .

Her political career is a seperate matter , and remember she has a "mandate ".  She requested people pay what the democratically elected government decided should be paid .

Folk playing the woman , not the ball.

So you think someone who 'failed' like Regina Doherty should be one of the people in charge of the country?
It shouldn't make anyone very comfortable that such a "businesswoman" holds such power in the state with that track record.

Clearly the people who elected her believe that - it's called Democracy.

The other option is to have some unelected shadowy council run by nice rural men calling the shots.

Are there any other arms of the democratic state you don't believe in? The Gardai? The Defence forces?

He is attacking her, and will continue to attack her over and over, because of her idiotic attack on Gerry Adams. But he denies membership of the Gerry Adams fan club.
Its a fantastic conundrum. Foxy hates the Democrats because of their (half hearted at best) social / liberal policies, but loves Sinn Fein!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 03:30:34 PM
Quote from: heffo on May 12, 2016, 03:14:44 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 02:55:31 PM
Quote from: heffo on May 12, 2016, 02:49:21 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 01:36:24 PM
Maybe I missed her opinion on the massive debt write downs and state contracts awarded to friends of Blueshirt Inc. She is your typical FG mouth. Arrogant 'do as I say attitude' dripping with hypocrisy. You give a dig to Wallace while backing  Doherty's 'mandate'. Admirable whataboutery. Wallace has done great work in the Dail re Garda whistleblowers and Nama. Doherty spends her time attacking Sinn Fein and hypocritically telling people to pay their bills.

Again that's democracy - you're free to criticise her opinions. Free to tell others not to vote for her next time.

Just like Sinn Fein are free to criticise the Govt's social housing policy while objecting to the building of social houses (See Dublin Mid-West before Christmas) at the same time.

Please keep on topic. This is about Doherty and her hypocrisy, not Sinn Fein. What was her opinion on large debt write downs, Moriarty etc?

I've no idea what her opinion is, nor do I care - I didn't vote for her.

But you're ok with her being a hypocrite? No wonder the likes of her and Lowry get elected if your representative of the electorate.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 12, 2016, 03:31:38 PM
Quote from: Canalman on May 12, 2016, 03:27:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2016, 03:03:03 PM
The €3 a week public water charge that SF and the loonyleft have saved for middle class town and city dwellers ( who wouldn't vote for either lot) would have amounted to around €200m.
This figure has now to come from other public monies.
That would have built around 1,000 social houses which would be the kind of thing real socialist and left wingers would be doing.

But nit in Paddyfantasyland. No!
Better to have thousands in emergency accommodation so pygmy brained politicians can lick middle class arses.

Ru



As for Regina - pain in the butt but Shinnerbots may have a bigger problem.



And there was me thinking it was FF and FG  in the last couple of weeks that put them on hold.

Not at all. It's seemingly a stunning victory for leftie  street politics.
I'm sure the families living in hotels and b and b will be delighted with them.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 12, 2016, 04:19:49 PM
Quote from: heffo on May 12, 2016, 10:00:44 AM
The other option is to have some unelected shadowy council run by nice rural men calling the shots.

I think they're called Fianna Fail and right now they sorta do call the shots :)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 12, 2016, 04:27:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 12, 2016, 10:18:55 AM
Quote from: heffo on May 12, 2016, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 11, 2016, 04:25:27 PM
Quote from: ashman on May 11, 2016, 03:18:48 PM
Her business failed .  These things do happen and will continue to happen .

Her political career is a seperate matter , and remember she has a "mandate ".  She requested people pay what the democratically elected government decided should be paid .

Folk playing the woman , not the ball.

So you think someone who 'failed' like Regina Doherty should be one of the people in charge of the country?
It shouldn't make anyone very comfortable that such a "businesswoman" holds such power in the state with that track record.

Clearly the people who elected her believe that - it's called Democracy.

The other option is to have some unelected shadowy council run by nice rural men calling the shots.

Are there any other arms of the democratic state you don't believe in? The Gardai? The Defence forces?

He is attacking her, and will continue to attack her over and over, because of her idiotic attack on Gerry Adams. But he denies membership of the Gerry Adams fan club.

Muppet - this isn't about Gerry although her vitriol towards him was the reason which outed Regina's underlying thoughts the people over *that* side of the border. I'd be saying the same thing if she had said it in response to Vincent Browne or any other politician.

Her remarks show her unfit to be a politician and she leaves a lot to be desired about her attitude to fellow irish citizens. It's worrying that she is in any position of power in the state.

FG voters in Meath would have voted in a cabbage (actually they pretty much did) if it had been presented on the ballot, i don't think it's an endorsement of ms Doherty's political skills.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 04:35:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2016, 03:31:38 PM
Quote from: Canalman on May 12, 2016, 03:27:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2016, 03:03:03 PM
The €3 a week public water charge that SF and the loonyleft have saved for middle class town and city dwellers ( who wouldn't vote for either lot) would have amounted to around €200m.
This figure has now to come from other public monies.
That would have built around 1,000 social houses which would be the kind of thing real socialist and left wingers would be doing.

But nit in Paddyfantasyland. No!
Better to have thousands in emergency accommodation so pygmy brained politicians can lick middle class arses.

Ru



As for Regina - pain in the butt but Shinnerbots may have a bigger problem.



And there was me thinking it was FF and FG  in the last couple of weeks that put them on hold.

Not at all. It's seemingly a stunning victory for leftie  street politics.
I'm sure the families living in hotels and b and b will be delighted with them.
As if you care a jot about the homeless. You only care about your own pocket.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 12, 2016, 04:42:23 PM
PMSL - Labour want their money back for water...
So anyone who looks for a refund will be the same as those who wouldn't pay. Take note all you advocates on here - will you stay on your high moral ground?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0512/787930-water-charges/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 04:56:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 12, 2016, 04:42:23 PM
PMSL - Labour want their money back for water...
So anyone who looks for a refund will be the same as those who wouldn't pay. Take note all you advocates on here - will you stay on your high moral ground?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0512/787930-water-charges/

Armaghniac has already admitted he doesn't actually want to pay twice for water and will apply for the refund. At least he had the honesty to admit it. Few others on here slating protesters who will no doubt look for the refund. Poor ol Rossfan will miss out again.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 12, 2016, 05:22:24 PM
Quote from: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 04:56:59 PM
Armaghniac has already admitted he doesn't actually want to pay twice for water and will apply for the refund. At least he had the honesty to admit it. Few others on here slating protesters who will no doubt look for the refund. Poor ol Rossfan will miss out again.

In no sense was I paying twice for water, but if others are not to have to pay, why should I?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 12, 2016, 05:59:33 PM
As one of 4 or 500,000 households without a public water supply or public sewer we've always paid for water.
Yet we have to pay the same tax as an equivalent townie household now to get water paid for by ALL taxpayers.
That's no vote for any FGite next time as well as FF,SF, loonies or Naughten. >:(

As for the public water charges - if the protestors, pay for nothing spongers etc who didn't pay aren't prosecuted or gave it added to their LPT then of course the Law abiding citizens should get theirs refunded.
So that's €330m plus the €200m foregone.
2,500 social houses.
Well done!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on May 12, 2016, 07:15:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2016, 05:59:33 PM
As one of 4 or 500,000 households without a public water supply or public sewer we've always paid for water.
Yet we have to pay the same tax as an equivalent townie household now to get water paid for by ALL taxpayers.
That's no vote for any FGite next time as well as FF,SF, loonies or Naughten. >:(

As for the public water charges - if the protestors, pay for nothing spongers etc who didn't pay aren't prosecuted or gave it added to their LPT then of course the Law abiding citizens should get theirs refunded.
So that's €330m plus the €200m foregone.
2,500 social houses.
Well done!!

Only scroungers are over paid public servants like yourself screwing the country. Benchmark against private sector pay and there would be loads to invest in housing, mental jealth and water infrastructure.  Might even be a bit left over for the bould Dinny.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 12, 2016, 10:43:59 PM
Finian McGrath's non compliance with the Law getting him into a biteen of bother.
Halligan next.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 13, 2016, 07:39:20 AM
I also blame Kenny for appointing these people.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on May 13, 2016, 07:46:35 PM
Finian to pay the charge following a meeting with the AG.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Minder on June 05, 2016, 07:05:55 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/offbeat/taoiseach-rock-air-guitar-playing-enda-kenny-at-springsteen-gig-1.2664807
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 14, 2016, 06:48:03 PM
So the bold Frank Feighan got nominated to the Seanad by his mucker Enda.
Always knew that he wouldn't be left high and dry after donating his elbows last term.

And Dr James Reilly took a seat also after he declared it was pointless previously. Not when it's a nice little earner.

Jobs for the boys and girls. Some of them don't even have time to attend the seanad while they are running their own affairs like that lad Pádraig Ó Céidigh. I fail to see the point.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 14, 2016, 06:53:58 PM
Quote from: Minder on June 05, 2016, 07:05:55 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/offbeat/taoiseach-rock-air-guitar-playing-enda-kenny-at-springsteen-gig-1.2664807

Yes, this buffoon is the leader of the nation. How embarrassing.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ashman on June 14, 2016, 07:02:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 14, 2016, 06:48:03 PM
So the bold Frank Feighan got nominated to the Seanad by his mucker Enda.
Always knew that he wouldn't be left high and dry after donating his elbows last term.

And Dr James Reilly took a seat also after he declared it was pointless previously. Not when it's a nice little earner.

Jobs for the boys and girls. Some of them don't even have time to attend the seanad while they are running their own affairs like that lad Pádraig Ó Céidigh. I fail to see the point.

Foxy

As a matter of interest are you a registered voter in republic ?

If you did you vote to abolish the Seanad. ??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on June 14, 2016, 07:05:34 PM
Don't be getting in the way of imbecilic rants by asking pertinent questions ;)
I voted to abolish it by the way.
Waste of money.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 14, 2016, 07:20:40 PM
Quote from: ashman on June 14, 2016, 07:02:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 14, 2016, 06:48:03 PM
So the bold Frank Feighan got nominated to the Seanad by his mucker Enda.
Always knew that he wouldn't be left high and dry after donating his elbows last term.

And Dr James Reilly took a seat also after he declared it was pointless previously. Not when it's a nice little earner.

Jobs for the boys and girls. Some of them don't even have time to attend the seanad while they are running their own affairs like that lad Pádraig Ó Céidigh. I fail to see the point.

Foxy

As a matter of interest are you a registered voter in republic ?

If you did you vote to abolish the Seanad. ??

Why would I feel the need to tell you how I vote on such matters?

Fact is the seanad has turned into a TD dole office (with better benefits)


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ashman on June 14, 2016, 08:13:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 14, 2016, 07:20:40 PM
Quote from: ashman on June 14, 2016, 07:02:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 14, 2016, 06:48:03 PM
So the bold Frank Feighan got nominated to the Seanad by his mucker Enda.
Always knew that he wouldn't be left high and dry after donating his elbows last term.

And Dr James Reilly took a seat also after he declared it was pointless previously. Not when it's a nice little earner.

Jobs for the boys and girls. Some of them don't even have time to attend the seanad while they are running their own affairs like that lad Pádraig Ó Céidigh. I fail to see the point.

Foxy

As a matter of interest are you a registered voter in republic ?

If you did you vote to abolish the Seanad. ??

Why would I feel the need to tell you how I vote on such matters?

Fact is the seanad has turned into a TD dole office (with better benefits)

Fine .  Rant away and don't engage .

The Seanad was always a consolation prize / reperchage for defeated Dail candidates .

We had a chance to get rid of it and the people spoke . The bastards !!!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 14, 2016, 08:18:50 PM
Quote from: ashman on June 14, 2016, 08:13:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 14, 2016, 07:20:40 PM
Quote from: ashman on June 14, 2016, 07:02:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 14, 2016, 06:48:03 PM
So the bold Frank Feighan got nominated to the Seanad by his mucker Enda.
Always knew that he wouldn't be left high and dry after donating his elbows last term.

And Dr James Reilly took a seat also after he declared it was pointless previously. Not when it's a nice little earner.

Jobs for the boys and girls. Some of them don't even have time to attend the seanad while they are running their own affairs like that lad Pádraig Ó Céidigh. I fail to see the point.

Foxy

As a matter of interest are you a registered voter in republic ?

If you did you vote to abolish the Seanad. ??

Why would I feel the need to tell you how I vote on such matters?

Fact is the seanad has turned into a TD dole office (with better benefits)

Fine .  Rant away and don't engage .

The Seanad was always a consolation prize / reperchage for defeated Dail candidates .

We had a chance to get rid of it and the people spoke . The b**tards !!!

Ash - my own personal view is irrelevant. Point is that the government and other political parties are still engaging in 'jobs for the boys' which is totally wrong and very hypocritical in certain scenarios given their own viewpoint (i.e. Dr Reilly)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 07, 2016, 10:29:07 PM
Not a good week for Enda Kenny. How long more will he be brazen enough to cling to power I wonder?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on July 07, 2016, 10:44:02 PM
Independents are an absolute cluster f*ck, hard to see them lasting to the end of the year.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mikehunt on July 07, 2016, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 07, 2016, 10:44:02 PM
Independents are an absolute cluster f*ck, hard to see them lasting to the end of the year.

The Independent td's have done some great work uncovering and highlighting shameful acts by the Blueshirts. Establishment are lamenting the rise of independents but fail to grasp the simple fact that FG, FF and Labour have been at best, incompetent or at worst, corrupt. This has led to the rise of independents.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: muppet on July 08, 2016, 12:16:18 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on July 07, 2016, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 07, 2016, 10:44:02 PM
Independents are an absolute cluster f*ck, hard to see them lasting to the end of the year.

The Independent td's have done some great work uncovering and highlighting shameful acts by the Blueshirts. Establishment are lamenting the rise of independents but fail to grasp the simple fact that FG, FF and Labour have been at best, incompetent or at worst, corrupt. This has led to the rise of independents.

The abject failure of SF to take advantage of the open goal opportunities presented by the collapse of both the FF/PD and FG/Labour support bases, is what has led to the rise of the Independents.

If SF can't get there now, it is over for them.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on July 08, 2016, 01:12:09 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 08, 2016, 12:16:18 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on July 07, 2016, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 07, 2016, 10:44:02 PM
Independents are an absolute cluster f*ck, hard to see them lasting to the end of the year.

The Independent td's have done some great work uncovering and highlighting shameful acts by the Blueshirts. Establishment are lamenting the rise of independents but fail to grasp the simple fact that FG, FF and Labour have been at best, incompetent or at worst, corrupt. This has led to the rise of independents.

The abject failure of SF to take advantage of the open goal opportunities presented by the collapse of both the FF/PD and FG/Labour support bases, is what has led to the rise of the Independents.

If SF can't get there now, it is over for them.

FF collapsed, FG disappointed, the UK is breaking up, but one thing is constant, SF are still useless.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on July 08, 2016, 02:36:08 PM
Seems the Blue shirt troops are ready to push Enda overboard.
Must be because of the Rhubarbs losing to Galway?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on July 08, 2016, 04:39:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 08, 2016, 12:16:18 AM
Quote from: mikehunt on July 07, 2016, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 07, 2016, 10:44:02 PM
Independents are an absolute cluster f*ck, hard to see them lasting to the end of the year.

The Independent td's have done some great work uncovering and highlighting shameful acts by the Blueshirts. Establishment are lamenting the rise of independents but fail to grasp the simple fact that FG, FF and Labour have been at best, incompetent or at worst, corrupt. This has led to the rise of independents.

The abject failure of SF to take advantage of the open goal opportunities presented by the collapse of both the FF/PD and FG/Labour support bases, is what has led to the rise of the Independents.

If SF can't get there now, it is over for them.
wait until the next crash and bonfire of the bonds
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on July 09, 2016, 02:28:52 AM
I love how Regina Doherty has just tried to shaft Enda into giving a timeline for his departure after he elevated her to chief whip.
They're all self-serving money-grabbing SOB's.
She'd have been pleading him for a Seanad Seat had she lost the election.

Poor Enda.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on July 22, 2016, 03:18:55 PM
All of a sudden Ireland is seemingly rolling in it. Sure why would you need the extra €280 million. The milky bars are on me!!

Ireland can afford extra EU payment - Noonan

The Minister for Finance has said there is a liability on Ireland to pay an extra €280m to the European budget, as part of the country's national contribution.

However Michael Noonan said there are still some "moving parts" which could see the final bill a few million more or less than it currently stands.

Mr Noonan said that some work is being done at a "technical level" to deal with once-off jumps in the country's Gross Domestic Product. Figures released last week showed that GDP soared by over 26% last year.

He said that the country can afford to pay the EU bill and there is no change in the budget position.

Mr Noonan said Ireland will be able to meet the increase in its contribution to the EU Budget because it has collected more money in taxes this year than it had expected.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on September 17, 2016, 07:58:32 PM
Just shows the mentality hasn't changed. All want to be at the big show



A Fine Gael politician who complained about being denied tickets by the GAA for tomorrow's All Ireland football final says her request was accommodated "any other time I asked".


Senator Catherine Noone sparked outrage after it emerged she wrote to GAA Ard Stiúrthóir Páraic Duffy to express her anger after being refused tickets for Dublin's clash with Mayo.


Her colleague Michelle Mulherin sent a similar letter, claiming the fact that TDs are provided with tickets - but not senators - represents "defamation".

Both politicians have been subjected to a backlash on social media as a result of them making their views publicly known.


But Ms Noone yesterday took to an internal Fine Gael 'What's App' group in a bid to justify her position to party colleagues.

"The fact is they (the GAA) provided two tickets any other time I asked and I think it's fair enough to question that," Ms Noone wrote.


"I was a bit taken aback and wrote a short email, that's the extent of it. I just looked for a ticket some place else. This kind of publicity is embarrassing and I didn't seek it."

Ms Noone said she "did not seek this to be in the papers" - despite contacting this newspaper directly to express her annoyance at the GAA.


"I could (do) without this rubbish. And I'm sorry about it," she added.

Ms Noone has previously raised eyebrows among colleagues after describing the "persistent use of chimes" by ice cream vans as "aggressive".

She also sought to ban the Ultimate Fighting Championship - which stars Conor McGregor - from coming to Dublin, describing Mixed Martial Arts as a "vile so-called sport". She later backtracked on those claims.

The GAA is to review its policy of handing out tickets to TDs and senators for Croke Park games in light of the controversy.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ive-always-got-gaa-tickets-before-whines-fg-senator-35055943.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on December 20, 2016, 07:05:52 PM
Plenary session of the European Parliament in Strasbourg debate and vote on the 'Implementation of the Common Foreign and Security Policy' of the EU.

"66% of irish citizens would like to see greater eu engagement in matters of security and defence policy according to a new eurobarometer survey of european parliament on perceptions and expectations".
Sean Kelly - Fine Gael MEP, 14th Dec 2016

Afterwards abstained in vote on neutrality.

Which poll was that Sean? And when do the conscriptions start lads?




Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 02, 2017, 07:17:24 PM
I see TD and Minister Denis Naughten had an accident while out cycling and had to go all the way to the emergency ward in Portiuncula hospital in County Galway for treatment.

Surely it would have been easier to go to the local emergency department in Roscommon hospital to get seen to? oh wait, that's right, some genius broke an election promise and got it shut it down. Just cant remember who.

I hope all the potholes along the way made it an extra bumpy ride.



Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on January 02, 2017, 09:24:52 PM
Ya big thick. Naughten jumped ship from the blueshirts over the Hospital.
Hope he's not too badly hurt.
His father was killed in a crash 20 odd years ago
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on January 02, 2017, 09:27:28 PM
Wonder how long he had to wait in casualty?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Owenmoresider on January 02, 2017, 09:28:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 02, 2017, 09:24:52 PM
Ya big thick. Naughten jumped ship from the blueshirts over the Hospital.
Hope he's not too badly hurt.
His father was killed in a crash 20 odd years ago
And Portincula is in Ballinasloe so it's relatively close nearby and indeed would be Naughten's local hospital in all probability.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Never beat the deeler on January 02, 2017, 09:33:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 02, 2017, 07:17:24 PM
I see TD and Minister Denis Naughten had an accident while out cycling and had to go all the way to the emergency ward in Portiuncula hospital in County Galway for treatment.

Surely it would have been easier to go to the local emergency department in Roscommon hospital to get seen to? oh wait, that's right, some genius broke an election promise and got it shut it down. Just cant remember who.

I hope all the potholes along the way made it an extra bumpy ride.

That's one of the most horrible posts I've seen on this site
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on January 02, 2017, 09:34:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 02, 2017, 07:17:24 PM
I see TD and Minister Denis Naughten had an accident while out cycling and had to go all the way to the emergency ward in Portiuncula hospital in County Galway for treatment.

Surely it would have been easier to go to the local emergency department in Roscommon hospital to get seen to? oh wait, that's right, some genius broke an election promise and got it shut it down. Just cant remember who.

I hope all the potholes along the way made it an extra bumpy ride.





Showing your ignorance again foxy!
As the old saying goes "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: manfromdelmonte on January 02, 2017, 10:08:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 02, 2017, 07:17:24 PM
I see TD and Minister Denis Naughten had an accident while out cycling and had to go all the way to the emergency ward in Portiuncula hospital in County Galway for treatment.

Surely it would have been easier to go to the local emergency department in Roscommon hospital to get seen to? oh wait, that's right, some genius broke an election promise and got it shut it down. Just cant remember who.

I hope all the potholes along the way made it an extra bumpy ride.
I hope you're not suggesting Denis closed the A&E unit?

(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 02, 2017, 11:45:08 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on January 02, 2017, 10:08:45 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 02, 2017, 07:17:24 PM
I see TD and Minister Denis Naughten had an accident while out cycling and had to go all the way to the emergency ward in Portiuncula hospital in County Galway for treatment.

Surely it would have been easier to go to the local emergency department in Roscommon hospital to get seen to? oh wait, that's right, some genius broke an election promise and got it shut it down. Just cant remember who.

I hope all the potholes along the way made it an extra bumpy ride.
I hope you're not suggesting Denis closed the A&E unit?


Downgraded wasn't it. The sorts of injuries, say a cycling incident would cause aren't being treated anymore. Rossies have to go to Galway now.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 02, 2017, 11:45:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 02, 2017, 09:24:52 PM
Ya big thick. Naughten jumped ship from the blueshirts over the Hospital.
Hope he's not too badly hurt.
His father was killed in a crash 20 odd years ago

Nice to see you're back following me ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 02, 2017, 11:50:59 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on January 02, 2017, 09:28:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 02, 2017, 09:24:52 PM
Ya big thick. Naughten jumped ship from the blueshirts over the Hospital.
Hope he's not too badly hurt.
His father was killed in a crash 20 odd years ago
And Portincula is in Ballinasloe so it's relatively close nearby and indeed would be Naughten's local hospital in all probability.

Accident happened just outside Roscommon town in Fuerty. bang goes your theory
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trileacman on January 02, 2017, 11:52:35 PM
Typica cluelessl shinner apologist revelling in the tragedy and misfortune of others. Probably pissed himself with delight when he heard of the Birmingham bombings back in the day.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on January 03, 2017, 12:30:55 AM
Quote from: trileacman on January 02, 2017, 11:52:35 PM
Typica cluelessl shinner apologist revelling in the tragedy and misfortune of others. Probably pissed himself with delight when he heard of the Birmingham bombings back in the day.

Are you a Stoop?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on January 03, 2017, 01:07:32 AM
Why did ye bite. The WUM has been trying fruitlessly since July get to a response here.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 14, 2017, 01:37:55 PM
(http://img.rasset.ie/000d94f7-800.jpg)

Subliminal message to the voters
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 15, 2017, 02:54:08 PM
PMSL - Enda in sign language

https://www.joe.ie/news/watch-enda-kenny-brutally-heckled-speech-cork-last-night/577684
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 20, 2017, 07:10:40 PM
8 million a year to be spent on accommodation for 40 "youths". All while we have a homeless crisis and families being evicted.
Reserve your outrage for Donald Trump lads.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0219/853782-child-refugees-ireland-tusla/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 20, 2017, 07:14:28 PM
While I'm not a fan I feel sorry for Enda this time - looks like the opportunists in his own party are ready to stick that knife in his back to save their own skins. It's laughable that Frances Fitzgerald won't rule herself out of the running for new Taoiseach.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2017, 07:03:42 PM
Enda announces that he will resign as leader when the Northern Ireland situation is sorted.
I wouldn't hold my breath.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: lawnseed on March 24, 2017, 09:57:35 PM
The gimp kenny standing in his office talking about Martin mcguinness' "terrorist past"  in front of a portrait of Michael collins ::)
Why do Fine Gael like to link themselves to Collins
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 24, 2017, 11:42:08 PM
Read some history.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: gallsman on March 24, 2017, 11:52:58 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on March 24, 2017, 09:57:35 PM
The gimp kenny standing in his office talking about Martin mcguinness' "terrorist past"  in front of a portrait of Michael collins ::)
Why do Fine Gael like to link themselves to Collins

Everyone tries to claim Collins ffs.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 25, 2017, 07:31:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2017, 07:03:42 PM
Enda announces that he will resign as leader when the Northern Ireland situation is sorted.
I wouldn't hold my breath.

He'll keep finding ways to put it off. He thinks he's suave and a master at pulling the wool over people's eyes.

I see today that Frances Fitzgerald is making noises about going for the Taoiseach position and leading the country.
In that case - please don't go Enda! I'm sorry.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on September 29, 2017, 06:37:15 PM
Regina Doherty caught up in irregular financial dealings again. The money was just resting in my account!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/regina-doherty-to-repay-15-800-allowance-1.3232435

I'd never notice if an extra 16,000 ended up in my bank account for no reason.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on September 29, 2017, 09:36:32 PM
Thirsty WUM account. Even getting past the nonsense that is the absentee owner of this forum allowing accounts like the above to stay, it is mind boggling that someone would dedicate that much energy and time to playing a created character on a message board.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 29, 2017, 09:51:01 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 29, 2017, 09:36:32 PM
Thirsty WUM account. Even getting past the nonsense that is the absentee owner of this forum allowing accounts like the above to stay, it is mind boggling that someone would dedicate that much energy and time to playing a created character on a message board.

Lol Pot kettle etc etc
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Syferus on September 29, 2017, 10:12:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 29, 2017, 09:51:01 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 29, 2017, 09:36:32 PM
Thirsty WUM account. Even getting past the nonsense that is the absentee owner of this forum allowing accounts like the above to stay, it is mind boggling that someone would dedicate that much energy and time to playing a created character on a message board.

Lol Pot kettle etc etc

?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: foxcommander on September 29, 2017, 10:16:59 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 29, 2017, 09:36:32 PM
Thirsty WUM account. Even getting past the nonsense that is the absentee owner of this forum allowing accounts like the above to stay, it is mind boggling that someone would dedicate that much energy and time to playing a created character on a message board.

Have you nothing to say about Regina? That's a news article I've posted showing some politicians still haven't learned from the past.

If it winds you up then that's a bonus :)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on January 11, 2019, 07:22:02 PM
I see FG is starting a branch in QUB.
Quite right too, that they don't bother with UU, not the right sort there.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: dec on March 04, 2019, 06:11:05 PM
Mark Durkan standing for Fine Gael in Dublin for the Euro election

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/0304/1034226-durkan-fine-gael-elections/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 04, 2019, 06:26:40 PM
Good start for him anyhow ::)

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/im-making-no-pretence-here-fine-gael-european-elections-candidate-mark-durkan-unable-to-name-four-streets-in-dublin-37876506.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: LooseCannon on March 04, 2019, 07:09:07 PM
Went with the wrong party in the wrong constituency.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: dec on March 04, 2019, 10:32:25 PM
I would imagine the chances of Fine Gael winning 2 seats is pretty slim.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: yellowcard on March 04, 2019, 10:38:07 PM
The SDLP were supposed to be the sister party of the Labour Party, instead they formed an Alliance with FF and now their former leader is standing for FG. It's hard to know what they stand for.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: NetNitrate on March 05, 2019, 01:12:37 AM
Austin Currie too joined Fine Gael. The Garrett Fitzgerald/social democratic wing of Fine Gael was always a natural fit for SDLP. Surprised they went with FF.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Main Street on March 16, 2019, 01:31:49 PM
Is this a Fine Gael thing with their party leaders? Enda Kenny felt compelled to make almost snide comments, preachy -  'we're better that you are, you slob' in a traditional White House  Patrick's day speech  with the US president next to him.
Now I see Varadkar was making comments on the front lawn of VP Pence and his missus, both known conservative outspoken opponents of civil rights for LGBTQ. Was it not enough for Varadkar just to bring his partner to their house and have a private chat inside but had to shout out loud on the lawn to the worlds press, while Pence and missus were within earshot with fixed grins? Could he not have had the respect to hold his tongue and make the comments some other place, rather than on the front lawn of his gracious host?

Next we'll see Varadkar at some function where he's in the presence of Tipperary's finest, Michael Lowry, wearing a tee-shirt emblazoned  with the slogan "Unlike Mike, I'm clean"
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trailer on March 16, 2019, 01:40:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 16, 2019, 01:31:49 PM
Is this a Fine Gael thing with their party leaders? Enda Kenny felt compelled to make almost snide comments, preachy -  'we're better that you are, you slob' in a traditional White House  Patrick's day speech  with the US president next to him.
Now I see Varadkar was making comments on the front lawn of VP Pence and his missus, both known conservative outspoken opponents of civil rights for LGBTQ. Was it not enough for Varadkar just to bring his partner to their house and have a private chat inside but had to shout out loud on the lawn to the worlds press, while Pence and missus were within earshot with fixed grins? Could he not have had the respect to hold his tongue and make the comments some other place, rather than on the front lawn of his gracious host?

Next we'll see Varadkar at some function where he's in the presence of Tipperary's finest, Michael Lowry, wearing a tee-shirt emblazoned  with the slogan "Unlike Mike, I'm clean"

Yeah, Leo the homo should just know his place....   ::)

Wise up for fucks sake.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on March 17, 2019, 12:47:51 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 16, 2019, 01:31:49 PM
Is this a Fine Gael thing with their party leaders? Enda Kenny felt compelled to make almost snide comments, preachy -  'we're better that you are, you slob' in a traditional White House  Patrick's day speech  with the US president next to him.
Now I see Varadkar was making comments on the front lawn of VP Pence and his missus, both known conservative outspoken opponents of civil rights for LGBTQ. Was it not enough for Varadkar just to bring his partner to their house and have a private chat inside but had to shout out loud on the lawn to the worlds press, while Pence and missus were within earshot with fixed grins? Could he not have had the respect to hold his tongue and make the comments some other place, rather than on the front lawn of his gracious host?

Next we'll see Varadkar at some function where he's in the presence of Tipperary's finest, Michael Lowry, wearing a tee-shirt emblazoned  with the slogan "Unlike Mike, I'm clean"

I thought his comments were fair enough tbh
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Main Street on March 17, 2019, 09:46:36 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 17, 2019, 12:47:51 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 16, 2019, 01:31:49 PM
Is this a Fine Gael thing with their party leaders? Enda Kenny felt compelled to make almost snide comments, preachy -  'we're better that you are, you slob' in a traditional White House  Patrick's day speech  with the US president next to him.
Now I see Varadkar was making comments on the front lawn of VP Pence and his missus, both known conservative outspoken opponents of civil rights for LGBTQ. Was it not enough for Varadkar just to bring his partner to their house and have a private chat inside but had to shout out loud on the lawn to the worlds press, while Pence and missus were within earshot with fixed grins? Could he not have had the respect to hold his tongue and make the comments some other place, rather than on the front lawn of his gracious host?

Next we'll see Varadkar at some function where he's in the presence of Tipperary's finest, Michael Lowry, wearing a tee-shirt emblazoned  with the slogan "Unlike Mike, I'm clean"

I thought his comments were fair enough tbh
His comments were fair enough, just I'd question the location and the occasion that he chose to make them.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: LCohen on March 17, 2019, 02:23:34 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 16, 2019, 01:31:49 PM
Is this a Fine Gael thing with their party leaders? Enda Kenny felt compelled to make almost snide comments, preachy -  'we're better that you are, you slob' in a traditional White House  Patrick's day speech  with the US president next to him.
Now I see Varadkar was making comments on the front lawn of VP Pence and his missus, both known conservative outspoken opponents of civil rights for LGBTQ. Was it not enough for Varadkar just to bring his partner to their house and have a private chat inside but had to shout out loud on the lawn to the worlds press, while Pence and missus were within earshot with fixed grins? Could he not have had the respect to hold his tongue and make the comments some other place, rather than on the front lawn of his gracious host?

Next we'll see Varadkar at some function where he's in the presence of Tipperary's finest, Michael Lowry, wearing a tee-shirt emblazoned  with the slogan "Unlike Mike, I'm clean"


You are entitled to your view but I think you called this one completely wrong for at least 2 reasons are very far removed from where the majority of Irish opinion is right now.

There is a whiff of the old angle that any visual or verbal confirmation of gayness is ramming it down your throat

Across the globe we see politicians glamourised by their hosts and kowtowed into not calling out their objectionable views/actions. Good to see someone step away from the usual crap
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Main Street on March 17, 2019, 05:14:22 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 17, 2019, 02:23:34 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 16, 2019, 01:31:49 PM
Is this a Fine Gael thing with their party leaders? Enda Kenny felt compelled to make almost snide comments, preachy -  'we're better that you are, you slob' in a traditional White House  Patrick's day speech  with the US president next to him.
Now I see Varadkar was making comments on the front lawn of VP Pence and his missus, both known conservative outspoken opponents of civil rights for LGBTQ. Was it not enough for Varadkar just to bring his partner to their house and have a private chat inside but had to shout out loud on the lawn to the worlds press, while Pence and missus were within earshot with fixed grins? Could he not have had the respect to hold his tongue and make the comments some other place, rather than on the front lawn of his gracious host?

Next we'll see Varadkar at some function where he's in the presence of Tipperary's finest, Michael Lowry, wearing a tee-shirt emblazoned  with the slogan "Unlike Mike, I'm clean"



You are entitled to your view but I think you called this one completely wrong for at least 2 reasons are very far removed from where the majority of Irish opinion is right now.

There is a whiff of the old angle that any visual or verbal confirmation of gayness is ramming it down your throat

Across the globe we see politicians glamourised by their hosts and kowtowed into not calling out their objectionable views/actions. Good to see someone step away from the usual crap
Bull on the whiff of visual or verbal confirmation of gayness.
This is not unlike Varadkar's totally inappropriate smug intervention in the presidential election process, he can't resist the little dig about how stupid you are and he has to spell it out for you. It's the holier that thou attitude which he shares with Kenny, when Kenny visited the White House.
This is about bland elected leaders of the country acting as if they are in fact, Martin Luther King when invited to grand palaces abroad.

You've let recent changes in Ireland go to your head.
You'd think Ireland was some go ahead progressive country for decades, instead of a society which has dragged its feet on most every social discrimination issue. Still to this day a very sizeable section of society  (a majority?) openly  exhibits intolerance, hatred, racism, or rampant bigotry towards Travellers, the bottom section of society on the equality scale.
Divorce? partially allowed in the mid 1990s, just how socially primitive can you get?  the rot of clergy everywhere.
And if you take in Ireland as a 32 county entity, as Varadkar implied he was representing at the Chicago parade, just how much bigotry, sexism and ignorance can you measure in the north.
There are plenty of ignored/evident social issues of discrimination  closer to home which offer ample opportunity for Varadkar to give an enlightened input.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: LCohen on March 17, 2019, 07:45:19 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 17, 2019, 05:14:22 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 17, 2019, 02:23:34 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 16, 2019, 01:31:49 PM
Is this a Fine Gael thing with their party leaders? Enda Kenny felt compelled to make almost snide comments, preachy -  'we're better that you are, you slob' in a traditional White House  Patrick's day speech  with the US president next to him.
Now I see Varadkar was making comments on the front lawn of VP Pence and his missus, both known conservative outspoken opponents of civil rights for LGBTQ. Was it not enough for Varadkar just to bring his partner to their house and have a private chat inside but had to shout out loud on the lawn to the worlds press, while Pence and missus were within earshot with fixed grins? Could he not have had the respect to hold his tongue and make the comments some other place, rather than on the front lawn of his gracious host?

Next we'll see Varadkar at some function where he's in the presence of Tipperary's finest, Michael Lowry, wearing a tee-shirt emblazoned  with the slogan "Unlike Mike, I'm clean"



You are entitled to your view but I think you called this one completely wrong for at least 2 reasons are very far removed from where the majority of Irish opinion is right now.

There is a whiff of the old angle that any visual or verbal confirmation of gayness is ramming it down your throat

Across the globe we see politicians glamourised by their hosts and kowtowed into not calling out their objectionable views/actions. Good to see someone step away from the usual crap
Bull on the whiff of visual or verbal confirmation of gayness.
This is not unlike Varadkar's totally inappropriate smug intervention in the presidential election process, he can't resist the little dig about how stupid you are and he has to spell it out for you. It's the holier that thou attitude which he shares with Kenny, when Kenny visited the White House.
This is about bland elected leaders of the country acting as if they are in fact, Martin Luther King when invited to grand palaces abroad.

You've let recent changes in Ireland go to your head.
You'd think Ireland was some go ahead progressive country for decades, instead of a society which has dragged its feet on most every social discrimination issue. Still to this day a very sizeable section of society  (a majority?) openly  exhibits intolerance, hatred, racism, or rampant bigotry towards Travellers, the bottom section of society on the equality scale.
Divorce? partially allowed in the mid 1990s, just how socially primitive can you get?  the rot of clergy everywhere.
And if you take in Ireland as a 32 county entity, as Varadkar implied he was representing at the Chicago parade, just how much bigotry, sexism and ignorance can you measure in the north.
There are plenty of ignored/evident social issues of discrimination  closer to home which offer ample opportunity for Varadkar to give an enlightened input.

I agree with everything you say about Ireland. Be a bit kinder about Leo though
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 24, 2019, 08:21:36 AM
See how their delegates gave Donaldson a bualadh bos for suggesting Ireland rejoin the commonwealth. Pretty pathetic party for inviting that odious individual to their ard fheis.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: yellowcard on March 24, 2019, 08:37:24 AM
So a party with a gay Taoiseach leading a government that introduced abortion rights invited to its own party event an MP from a largely sectarian party which has denied rights to all sorts of minority groupings in its own jurisdiction. A party for whom many of its MPs have hurled constant abuse at Varadkar throughout the Brexit process. I'm all for reconciliation but I think that was spectacularly ill judged.

Then Jeffrey brazenly invites Ireland to rejoin the Commonwealth probably knowing full well the reaction and media attention this would bring. I think he was probably on the wind up. I certainly don't think he would have expected to be applauded but the fact that some FG party members agree with his proposal should not come as a major surprise and just prove some of the underlying apologetic Irishness at the core of that party.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 24, 2019, 10:13:07 AM
Did Naomi Long or Eastwoid or Swann get an invite?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: yellowcard on March 24, 2019, 10:41:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 24, 2019, 10:13:07 AM
Did Naomi Long or Eastwoid or Swann get an invite?

Claire Hanna and Naomi Long were at it which was fair enough even if you would have to question the rationale for a self annointed socialist like Hanna to attend a FG event. The difference is that Jeffrey Donaldson represents the party of extreme unionism and his party have been at loggerheads with FG throughout the Brexit process. He then had the temerity to suggest Ireland rejoin the Commonwealth. It would leave you asking the question did FG know what the general content of his speech was going to contain before the event. What message does it send to the majority of nationalists in the north when they bend over backwards to appease extreme Unionism yet ignore broad nationalism.   
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: marty34 on March 24, 2019, 11:30:19 AM
The main event of the night was wee Jeffrey! 

1). The clapping re: joining the Commonwealth tells us everything about FG - little Englanders.

2). After all the abuse the DUP have given Leo etc. about Brexit, they invite him to headline their event.  Laughable if it wasn't so serious.

3). He's a member of the DUP - the anti LGBT, anti Irish language and anti Catholic party.  Heck, some of them see no issues with bonfires with the Irish national flag on the top etc. etc.

A major own goal by FG and Leo.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on March 24, 2019, 12:02:24 PM
If/when a border poll becomes a reality, it will be of benefit to have some sort of non-toxic relationship with the largest unionist party.
SF may consider themselves the gate keepers of irish unity, others might see them as an inpediment to it when it comes within grasp.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trailer on March 24, 2019, 12:43:12 PM
Surely understanding the views of a broad range of people on this Island is key to delivering a UI. Some people think ramming a UI down Unionists throats is going to work. FFS ramming Britain down Nationalists throats hasn't worked in 100 years the reverse is hardly going to.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: yellowcard on March 24, 2019, 12:59:50 PM
This has got absolutely nothing to do with ramming a UI down people's throat so to conflate it otherwise is nonsense. It is entirely possible to be respectful of other peoples beliefs and traditions but Ireland rejoining the Commonwealth is a ludicrous suggestion and I suspect that Jeffrey Donaldson knows this too well. I doubt that he would have expected it to receive any approval whatsoever so he may have been mildly surprised.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 24, 2019, 01:04:21 PM
Would there be a referendum required if a government went ahead with Jeffín's proposal? If so, I couldn't see it passing.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trailer on March 24, 2019, 01:35:08 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on March 24, 2019, 12:59:50 PM
This has got absolutely nothing to do with ramming a UI down people's throat so to conflate it otherwise is nonsense. It is entirely possible to be respectful of other peoples beliefs and traditions but Ireland rejoining the Commonwealth is a ludicrous suggestion and I suspect that Jeffrey Donaldson knows this too well. I doubt that he would have expected it to receive any approval whatsoever so he may have been mildly surprised.

I was referring to those who were critical of Donaldson's invite.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 25, 2019, 12:48:03 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 24, 2019, 01:04:21 PM
Would there be a referendum required if a government went ahead with Jeffín's proposal? If so, I couldn't see it passing.

Joining the Commonwealth might play a role in United Ireland negotiations. No need for action before then.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hound on March 25, 2019, 09:58:47 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2019, 12:48:03 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 24, 2019, 01:04:21 PM
Would there be a referendum required if a government went ahead with Jeffín's proposal? If so, I couldn't see it passing.

Joining the Commonwealth might play a role in United Ireland negotiations. No need for action before then.

- New Flag
- New Anthem
- Join the Commonwealth
- Guaranteed ministerial/junior ministerial positions in cabinet (with lovely pension entitlements) for X number of unionist politicians for Y number of years

Would be a small price for a United Ireland.

The latter three wouldn't really bother me, but I wouldn't like losing the flag, especially given what it's supposed to stand for. But the provos fecked that one up by hijacking it as a terrorist symbol, so it has to go.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on June 15, 2020, 10:07:09 AM
This is interesting

https://www.ft.com/content/a283b658-3c71-4ecc-b6f3-84f9993ba0cf

The European Commission initially tried to argue that it was the turn of a developed country — a position that EU trade commissioner Phil Hogan, who is contemplating a run, claimed had the support of Robert Lighthizer, the US trade representative. But it rapidly became clear that Mr Hogan had overstated the US position. Mr Lighthizer's office last week said that "Ambassador Lighthizer does not support any candidate at this time, nor does he feel that a candidate must necessarily be from a developed country". The EU's own member states also said last week that the next head did not have to be a European.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 06:49:48 PM
Regina Doherty making a show of herself again today
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on October 31, 2020, 12:59:38 PM
Some absolutely shocking revelations regarding Varadkar.

You'd imagine at the very minimum, this is a resignation matter.

https://villagemagazineireland2020.medium.com/leo-varadkar-lawbreaker-t%C3%A1naiste-leaked-confidential-document-to-friend-efdd1f14cfcb
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: grounded on October 31, 2020, 02:12:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 31, 2020, 12:59:38 PM
Some absolutely shocking revelations regarding Varadkar.

You'd imagine at the very minimum, this is a resignation matter.

https://villagemagazineireland2020.medium.com/leo-varadkar-lawbreaker-t%C3%A1naiste-leaked-confidential-document-to-friend-efdd1f14cfcb

Just shows the type of shit that goes on in the background at the top levels of government.
      Your man  Maitiú Ó Tuathail is a liability to say the least and Leo Varadker has left himself wide open for criticism. Its the same type of Cronyism thats been going on in Irish political life since the state's inception. Very depressing
     
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on October 31, 2020, 02:15:05 PM
You'd imagine there is absolutely no way Varadkar can survive this. If the allegations stand up he will either be forced to resign or it will collapse the government.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 31, 2020, 05:52:31 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/varadkar-says-giving-imo-pay-deal-to-rival-group-wasnt-best-practice-but-calls-village-magazine-article-grossly-defamatory-39690381.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on October 31, 2020, 06:18:48 PM
Looks like he is Donald Ducked.

No denial of leaking the document to his friend, his contention is that the document was actually available to the public but this was contended at that very time by the current Minister for Health and also the messages from the group he leaked the document to would suggest that it was not in the public domain.

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/3/0/3091b100dff4628f5a9684d56a0988b1c265504c_2_474x750.jpeg)

Can only see a resignation or the collapse of government here. Another odious example of the corrupt nature of FFG.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: skeog on October 31, 2020, 06:50:00 PM
Mary Lou be heading to the Park by the end of the week.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on October 31, 2020, 06:52:38 PM
For a walk?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on October 31, 2020, 09:20:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 31, 2020, 02:15:05 PM
You'd imagine there is absolutely no way Varadkar can survive this. If the allegations stand up he will either be forced to resign or it will collapse the government.

I don't think it is all that serious. If he provided the document after the agreement then it is not a hanging offence, the government should not be making secret agreements with pressure groups.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on October 31, 2020, 11:10:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 31, 2020, 09:20:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 31, 2020, 02:15:05 PM
You'd imagine there is absolutely no way Varadkar can survive this. If the allegations stand up he will either be forced to resign or it will collapse the government.

I don't think it is all that serious. If he provided the document after the agreement then it is not a hanging offence, the government should not be making secret agreements with pressure groups.

Not serious? Are you having a laugh?

It's a resigning offence and if he doesn't it has the potential to collapse the government.

He leaked classified and confidential documents to a friend in order to give them some sort of advantage. He hasn't denied the leaking of the information and he has said it was not best practice. His only contention is that it was already available and this seems to be contended by both the current Minister for Health when the leak happened and the parties to which the documents were leaked to at the time of the leak.

This is a proper shitstorm and I can't see any way he can survive this.

He is fucked, it's far, far, far more serious of a matter than any of the resignations involving recent ministers and Hogan.

Varadkar is a narcissist and won't go easily, Martin is a slimey, power-obsessed fraud who needs Varadkar to retain his tenuous grasp to government, somethings got to give though.

The media have been very, very quiet on such a big scandal so far but when the opposition get ripped into him in the Dail and he is pressed on this there will be no other option but for them to give it the proper coverage it deserves and when that happens the public are going to demand blood.

Not to mention the fact that there will be an element in FF who will want their pound of flesh after they had two ministers fall on the sword. This is the end of the FFG government as far as I can see.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 31, 2020, 11:18:54 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 31, 2020, 09:20:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 31, 2020, 02:15:05 PM
You'd imagine there is absolutely no way Varadkar can survive this. If the allegations stand up he will either be forced to resign or it will collapse the government.

I don't think it is all that serious. If he provided the document after the agreement then it is not a hanging offence, the government should not be making secret agreements with pressure groups.
Taken at face value, it might not be all that serious but the fact that neither Micheál Martin nor Eamon Ryan made any move to divert flak from him means he is in deep doo doo  when the coalition parties meet behind closed doors.
As well as that, there's a hefty rump in FG that dislike him intensely and the chances of him surviving when the controversy runs its course are pretty slim.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 01, 2020, 01:01:12 AM
If it gets rid of Varadkar then that is fine by me, he is a mé féiner. One issue is that he would not give the information to TDs, this is the real issue. I wonder did Mary Lou get wind of this, it was certainly a good week for her to sack a few people. She should ring Martin and tell him that he stay as Taoiseach for the rest of his half term if he dumps FG and does a deal with her.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 01, 2020, 01:07:45 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2020, 01:01:12 AM
If it gets rid of Varadkar then that is fine by me, he is a mé féiner. One issue is that he would not give the information to TDs, this is the real issue. I wonder did Mary Lou get wind of this, it was certainly a good week for her to sack a few people. She should ring Martin and tell him that he stay as Taoiseach for the rest of his half term if he dumps FG and does a deal with her.

The big issue is cronyism and how the leader of the country was meddling in matters that could have a profound impact on healthcare and potentially on public funds to give his friends a leg up.

Not giving TDs the info is not the problem, looking after his friends interests in direct conflict with that of the state, who he was leader of is. This is no way trivial, it's as serious as it gets for a state leader. His position is completely untenable and I'd be absolutely shocked if he can survive this. Politically the 26 is rotten but how rotten we will soon find out.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 01, 2020, 01:17:45 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 31, 2020, 09:20:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 31, 2020, 02:15:05 PM
You'd imagine there is absolutely no way Varadkar can survive this. If the allegations stand up he will either be forced to resign or it will collapse the government.

I don't think it is all that serious. If he provided the document after the agreement then it is not a hanging offence, the government should not be making secret agreements with pressure groups.

He provided a commercial entity run by a friend the draft text of a yet unsigned agreement with another commercial entity. This is a breach of the state secrets act and the corruption act.

The question is who fires him. Its up to FG and they are as weak as piss at the moment.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: bennydorano on November 03, 2020, 09:52:54 PM
Pearse Doherty gave him some grilling, Leo looked as guilty as sin, squirming.

Why is that man not SF Leader????
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 03, 2020, 10:07:28 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 03, 2020, 09:52:54 PM
Pearse Doherty gave him some grilling, Leo looked as guilty as sin, squirming.

Why is that man not SF Leader????

That man has balls, hence he is not leader, which requires a couple of tits.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 03, 2020, 10:08:12 PM
The mainstream media doing their best to bury this. More interested in an election 4000 miles across the Atlantic despite the fact Varadkar's contention has zero credibility.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: bennydorano on November 03, 2020, 10:23:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 03, 2020, 10:08:12 PM
The mainstream media doing their best to bury this. More interested in an election 4000 miles across the Atlantic despite the fact Varadkar's contention has zero credibility.
Definitely appears to be the case. Really stinks.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 03, 2020, 10:37:22 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 03, 2020, 10:23:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 03, 2020, 10:08:12 PM
The mainstream media doing their best to bury this. More interested in an election 4000 miles across the Atlantic despite the fact Varadkar's contention has zero credibility.
Definitely appears to be the case. Really stinks.

It's incredulous the way the government parties are not being called out on this.

The party line is basically he did something wrong but if he says his intentions were good then that's fine. The reality is his story has absolutely zero credibility, it's a clear case of him doing his pal a favour by leaking a confidential government contract to a rival entity.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 03, 2020, 10:47:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 03, 2020, 10:08:12 PM
The mainstream media doing their best to bury this. More interested in an election 4000 miles across the Atlantic despite the fact Varadkar's contention has zero credibility.

Not sure thats fair. Its been pushed quite hard
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 03, 2020, 10:59:37 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 03, 2020, 10:47:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 03, 2020, 10:08:12 PM
The mainstream media doing their best to bury this. More interested in an election 4000 miles across the Atlantic despite the fact Varadkar's contention has zero credibility.

Not sure thats fair. Its been pushed quite hard

Not really, headline news on RTE this evening was the US election. Virgin Media kicked off with the US election in their main nightly politics show, RTE had half the show on the US election.

This is a huge matter and they seem more concerned about an election 4000 miles away, it stinks.

The story broke on Saturday morning, on all the main radio shows and TV shows in the state not one show had a gov rep being challenged by an opposition rep until tonight. It took 4 days for the mainstream media to allow the opposition a proper platform to challenge the government.

It stinks to the absolute high heavens. RTE refused to report on the story for about 8/9 hours until Varadkar had realeased a statement on the allegations.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 03, 2020, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 03, 2020, 10:07:28 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 03, 2020, 09:52:54 PM
Pearse Doherty gave him some grilling, Leo looked as guilty as sin, squirming.

Why is that man not SF Leader????

That man has balls, hence he is not leader, which requires a couple of tits.
And he has the wrong accent.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 03, 2020, 11:37:15 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/fianna-fail-td-claims-sinn-fein-are-using-varadkar-controversey-to-deflect-from-their-troubles-in-north-where-they-are-hoarding-money-39704009.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on November 04, 2020, 10:13:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 03, 2020, 10:59:37 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 03, 2020, 10:47:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 03, 2020, 10:08:12 PM
The mainstream media doing their best to bury this. More interested in an election 4000 miles across the Atlantic despite the fact Varadkar's contention has zero credibility.

Not sure thats fair. Its been pushed quite hard

Not really, headline news on RTE this evening was the US election. Virgin Media kicked off with the US election in their main nightly politics show, RTE had half the show on the US election.

This is a huge matter and they seem more concerned about an election 4000 miles away, it stinks.

The story broke on Saturday morning, on all the main radio shows and TV shows in the state not one show had a gov rep being challenged by an opposition rep until tonight. It took 4 days for the mainstream media to allow the opposition a proper platform to challenge the government.

It stinks to the absolute high heavens. RTE refused to report on the story for about 8/9 hours until Varadkar had realeased a statement on the allegations.

Added to that the succession of FG mouthpiece Indo columnists and Newstalk presenters on twitter calling it a storm in a teacup and a witchhunt. Then you have RTÉs subtle use of language (Leo apparently didn't leak the document to his friend, he just "shared it with the NAGP"). Then we had Pat Kenny on Newstalk thinking out loud about how needless it would be to pressure Leo into resignation. Then today, the morning after Leo stood up in the Dáil to face questioning about it, the RTÉ news on Radio 1 seemingly has a blanket ban on any reference to the story. Apprently Tory bankbench MPs feelings on English covid restrictions are more newsworthy.

It's so blatant it's just ridiculous, but then again this is the state that brought us Section 31 and a state media organisation that vociferously resisted attempts to challenge  Section 31 and actually went to court to argue for its right to have its own news output censored by the state.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on November 04, 2020, 01:05:47 PM
I see the FF leader has managed to shoehorn the IRA into the debate in his frantic efforts to defend the FG leader from corruption accusations.

Just staggering.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 04, 2020, 01:11:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 04, 2020, 01:05:47 PM
I see the FF leader has managed to shoehorn the IRA into the debate in his frantic efforts to defend the FG leader from corruption accusations.

Just staggering.

No doubt the media will do their duty and examine the complete lack of credibility in Vardakar's motives.

I've never seen anything like this backed before.

The government's defence is basically they believe Varadkar because he is a good and honourable person and that's the end of a matter.

He leaked a confidential document to his friend - FACT.
His friend was president of a rival organisation involved in the contract - FACT.
He never bothered to tell anyone else in government, including the minister or the anyone with IMO what he was doing - FACT.
The Gov have consistently told the lie that the document was finalised and that it was in the public domain which was is a complete untruth - FACT.


This is a cut and dry resigning offence but Martin knows if Varadkar goes, the government collapses. It's disgusting cronyism.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 04, 2020, 02:30:13 PM
The Village are after dropping RTE and the Irish Times in it now. Said they released information to them yesterday before the Dail questions but neither reported on it.

https://villagemagazine.ie/more-info-for-public-consumption-much-more-to-come/

What this information concludes without doubt is that Varadkar's pal's primary motivation was to damage the IMO with the confidential contract leaked by his friend.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on November 04, 2020, 02:55:49 PM
And some would tell you that the Irish media is not a cost cartel with the established parties of FF and FG. Of course anyone that thinks that is an idiot.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 04, 2020, 03:28:01 PM
Varadkar handwrites - "subject to changes/amendments" on the front of the document.

He sends a text message to his friend saying "there may still be some changes, don't take it as gospel" after he sends it out.

His defence now is that it didn't matter as the document was finalised when he sent it out. It's a complete lie and contradiction but the government are sticking their fingers in their ears and saying if Varadkar says he did it with good intentions then they are not interested in hearing the facts or evidence.

And the media? Even the UK press are covering it more than them!

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 01:10:59 PM
So it now turns out that Varadkar has deleted his text messages with his friend who requested the documentation.

Interesting.

This doesn't seem like its going to go away as much as the media want it to.

The Village Magazine are to be commended here as although a fringe media outlet, they seem to be only ones willing to do some proper investigative journalism here on a national scandal.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 01:16:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 04, 2020, 03:28:01 PM
Varadkar handwrites - "subject to changes/amendments" on the front of the document.

He sends a text message to his friend saying "there may still be some changes, don't take it as gospel" after he sends it out.

His defence now is that it didn't matter as the document was finalised when he sent it out. It's a complete lie and contradiction but the government are sticking their fingers in their ears and saying if Varadkar says he did it with good intentions then they are not interested in hearing the facts or evidence.

And the media? Even the UK press are covering it more than them!

Yeh but eh Sinn Fein, Sinn Fein, Sinn Fein
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 02:03:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 01:16:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 04, 2020, 03:28:01 PM
Varadkar handwrites - "subject to changes/amendments" on the front of the document.

He sends a text message to his friend saying "there may still be some changes, don't take it as gospel" after he sends it out.

His defence now is that it didn't matter as the document was finalised when he sent it out. It's a complete lie and contradiction but the government are sticking their fingers in their ears and saying if Varadkar says he did it with good intentions then they are not interested in hearing the facts or evidence.

And the media? Even the UK press are covering it more than them!

Yeh but eh Sinn Fein, Sinn Fein, Sinn Fein

The anti-SF crew don't seem to have much to say on this suprisingly.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on November 05, 2020, 02:15:30 PM
Leo, under questioning from Pearse Doherty in the Dáil today said he deleted the Whatsapp messages from his pal Maitiu Ó'Tuathail about the documents. Texts which were eligible to be subject to a future FOI request. His response when asked if he did delete what amounted to an official record of his discussions with Ó'Tuathail, Leo said:

"When I did check my Whatsapp messages, it wasn't there. I don't, as standard, keep all text messages."

I mean, who on earth routinely deletes whatsapp messages because "they don't as standard keep all text messages"? I haven't deleted text messages since the days of the Nokia 3210 which could only hold a few dozen txts at a time.

Does Varadkar seriously think people will believe this bit of bull, or does he just not care?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 02:19:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 05, 2020, 02:15:30 PM
Leo, under questioning from Pearse Doherty in the Dáil today said he deleted the Whatsapp messages from his pal Maitiu Ó'Tuathail about the documents. Texts which were eligible to be subject to a future FOI request. His response when asked if he did delete what amounted to an official record of his discussions with Ó'Tuathail, Leo said:

"When I did check my Whatsapp messages, it wasn't there. I don't, as standard, keep all text messages."

I mean, who on earth routinely deletes whatsapp messages because "they don't as standard keep all text messages"? I haven't deleted text messages since the days of the Nokia 3210 which could only hold a few dozen txts at a time.

Does Varadkar seriously think people will believe this bit of bull, or does he just not care?

Did he selectively delete those messages?

And if so, why?

It absolutely stinks but you know - hush, hush, sweep, sweep.

I've never seen such a pathetic defence that has absolutely zero credibility being backed so much. The gov defence is basically if Varadkar said he had good intentions then that's fine and they don't want to listen or pay any attention to established facts in the matter.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on November 05, 2020, 02:53:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 02:19:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 05, 2020, 02:15:30 PM
Leo, under questioning from Pearse Doherty in the Dáil today said he deleted the Whatsapp messages from his pal Maitiu Ó'Tuathail about the documents. Texts which were eligible to be subject to a future FOI request. His response when asked if he did delete what amounted to an official record of his discussions with Ó'Tuathail, Leo said:

"When I did check my Whatsapp messages, it wasn't there. I don't, as standard, keep all text messages."

I mean, who on earth routinely deletes whatsapp messages because "they don't as standard keep all text messages"? I haven't deleted text messages since the days of the Nokia 3210 which could only hold a few dozen txts at a time.

Does Varadkar seriously think people will believe this bit of bull, or does he just not care?

Did he selectively delete those messages?

And if so, why?

It absolutely stinks but you know - hush, hush, sweep, sweep.

I've never seen such a pathetic defence that has absolutely zero credibility being backed so much. The gov defence is basically if Varadkar said he had good intentions then that's fine and they don't want to listen or pay any attention to established facts in the matter.

He sent a confidential document to his friend, then deleted the evidence of their conversation about the arrangement from his phone lest anyone should ever find out about it. All very innocent though, apparently.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 03:09:12 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 05, 2020, 02:53:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 02:19:02 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 05, 2020, 02:15:30 PM
Leo, under questioning from Pearse Doherty in the Dáil today said he deleted the Whatsapp messages from his pal Maitiu Ó'Tuathail about the documents. Texts which were eligible to be subject to a future FOI request. His response when asked if he did delete what amounted to an official record of his discussions with Ó'Tuathail, Leo said:

"When I did check my Whatsapp messages, it wasn't there. I don't, as standard, keep all text messages."

I mean, who on earth routinely deletes whatsapp messages because "they don't as standard keep all text messages"? I haven't deleted text messages since the days of the Nokia 3210 which could only hold a few dozen txts at a time.

Does Varadkar seriously think people will believe this bit of bull, or does he just not care?

Did he selectively delete those messages?

And if so, why?

It absolutely stinks but you know - hush, hush, sweep, sweep.

I've never seen such a pathetic defence that has absolutely zero credibility being backed so much. The gov defence is basically if Varadkar said he had good intentions then that's fine and they don't want to listen or pay any attention to established facts in the matter.

He sent a confidential document to his friend, then deleted the evidence of their conversation about the arrangement from his phone lest anyone should ever find out about it. All very innocent though, apparently.

His defence is this was his way of trying to get the deal over the line and sell it to GPs but there is absolutely nothing to support at all. All the established facts in the matter actually contradict that, the way he went behind the backs of his government colleagues, the secrecy, the messages between his friend and him, the fact that he pointed out the contract was subject to change and amendments.

Yet the gov are happy to take his word on it despite the established facts being in direct contradiction to it. You expect that from the government to save their skin but what is most sickening of it all is the role of a mainstream media, Varadkar has been caught bang to rights in one of the biggest political scandals since Bertie's era and the media only want to bury the story.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 03:10:03 PM
The likes of Hound and Rossfan are notable by their silence too.

Complete hypocrites.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 03:39:46 PM
Fianna Fáil have to take a lot of slack here too. Micheal Martin in particular. Leo obviously has him wrapped around his little finger. Can't understand why they aren't pushing louder for his head.

Varadker has to go. Simple as.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: andoireabu on November 05, 2020, 03:43:57 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 03:39:46 PM
Fianna Fáil have to take a lot of slack here too. Micheal Martin in particular. Leo obviously has him wrapped around his little finger. Can't understand why they aren't pushing louder for his head.

Varadker has to go. Simple as.

If they call for his head then there will be an election and then Micheál wouldn't be Taoiseach anymore.  FF would take a beating and likely FG and Greens as well and we all know they won't risk SF getting in.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 03:48:53 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 03:39:46 PM
Fianna Fáil have to take a lot of slack here too. Micheal Martin in particular. Leo obviously has him wrapped around his little finger. Can't understand why they aren't pushing louder for his head.

Varadker has to go. Simple as.

If Varadkar goes then the gov collapses.

Martin's lust for power has absolutely no moral shame, he would push his granny down the stairs to keep it. It reflects worse on FF and despite the fact that there's been a few renegades speaking out on Varadkar, none of them will do anything meaningful whatsoever. It's only when the public tide goes against them could you expect action?

But what chances are there of public outrage being given that platform when the media are putting a scandal of this nature as a backstory and of little importance? This is far, far more serious than what Cowen, Calleary and Hogan were involved in but the media won't report on this.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 07:20:14 PM
Martin would give his left ball to stay as Taoiseach, the man has no position, no principals and us by far the worst leader the country has ever had. Hes only concerned with him having a legacy of being Taoiseach,  the people, right vrs wrong or justice are of no concern to him.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 07:54:05 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 07:20:14 PM
Martin would give his left ball to stay as Taoiseach, the man has no position, no principals and us by far the worst leader the country has ever had. Hes only concerned with him having a legacy of being Taoiseach,  the people, right vrs wrong or justice are of no concern to him.

Have it in a nutshell Itchy. I haven't been keeping as close an eye as I should be on this with the American election, but have they managed to blame the shinners yet?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 08:42:11 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 07:54:05 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 07:20:14 PM
Martin would give his left ball to stay as Taoiseach, the man has no position, no principals and us by far the worst leader the country has ever had. Hes only concerned with him having a legacy of being Taoiseach,  the people, right vrs wrong or justice are of no concern to him.

Have it in a nutshell Itchy. I haven't been keeping as close an eye as I should be on this with the American election, but have they managed to blame the shinners yet?
In a statement this evening (29th October), Elisha McCallion said she showed "poor judgment" over her participation which seen £30,000 wrongly obtained by Sinn Fein linked accounts.

One account Elisha admits, is a joint account belonging to her and her husband Declan McCallion. Declan is a well known drug abuser who in recent years, admitted his role in attacking an elderly couple whilst under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

Why did a known criminal have access to this money designed to help those suffering the hardship of Covid-19?

Had it not surfaced that Elisha and her colleagues had wrongly obtained this money, the people of Derry and the people she claims to represent, would not have been insulted with her excuse of yet another apology.

In the midst of a economically crippling global pandemic that has seen the working class face an increasingly aggressive environment that threatens their very livelihoods and mental health, ten of thousands of pounds are mysteriously appearing in the bank accounts of criminal, conniving, careerist politicians such as imperialist apologist and mouthpiece Elisha McCallion.

The good people of this country and within our communities are more than aware that Sinn Fein, the once proud revolutionary party, are not shy when it comes to lining their own pockets. In fact, they have become an outfit of deceit and selfishness. Over the past two decades they have been involved in backhand financial deals with the occupation resulting in direct funding from the occupation and those who seek to normalise imperialism in Ireland.

Famously, they have manipulated on a massive scale various positions and jobs within working class communities, keeping their party and family members in work while others - who are far more qualified - are kicked to the kerb simply because they don't tow the Sinn Fein line.

Sinn Fein members have a track record of embezzling money that was destined for better causes in Derry, this is reflected by the many ex-Republicans who now own houses, bars, nightclubs, security firms, holiday homes and taxi ranks. These people live in luxury while their former comrades, some of whom who still ride the 'Sinn Fein train' live in social housing with money problems and addiction.

The people of this city have for too long been at the mercy of capitalism, partition,  imperialism and the social-economic devastation it brings. Year In year out the electorate and the working class are promised better housing, more employment and opportunities, mental health facilities and funding, youth initiatives and youth development schemes. All promised by those who solidify the very structures that imposes these conditions on the working class.

Elisha McCallion has for too long insulted the people of Derry. She has made jokes at the fact that working class people find themselves in debt which can wreak devastation on those unfortunate enough to find themselves in that position. She insulted those campaigning for better mental health facilities in the city and for years she has made a career for herself claiming to struggle for what brave men and women fought and died for.

Elisha McCallion should hang her head in shame. Although she is in the spotlight today, she represents what Sinn Fein as a party have become.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 08:46:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 08:42:11 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 07:54:05 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 07:20:14 PM
Martin would give his left ball to stay as Taoiseach, the man has no position, no principals and us by far the worst leader the country has ever had. Hes only concerned with him having a legacy of being Taoiseach,  the people, right vrs wrong or justice are of no concern to him.

Have it in a nutshell Itchy. I haven't been keeping as close an eye as I should be on this with the American election, but have they managed to blame the shinners yet?
In a statement this evening (29th October), Elisha McCallion said she showed "poor judgment" over her participation which seen £30,000 wrongly obtained by Sinn Fein linked accounts.

One account Elisha admits, is a joint account belonging to her and her husband Declan McCallion. Declan is a well known drug abuser who in recent years, admitted his role in attacking an elderly couple whilst under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

Why did a known criminal have access to this money designed to help those suffering the hardship of Covid-19?

Had it not surfaced that Elisha and her colleagues had wrongly obtained this money, the people of Derry and the people she claims to represent, would not have been insulted with her excuse of yet another apology.

In the midst of a economically crippling global pandemic that has seen the working class face an increasingly aggressive environment that threatens their very livelihoods and mental health, ten of thousands of pounds are mysteriously appearing in the bank accounts of criminal, conniving, careerist politicians such as imperialist apologist and mouthpiece Elisha McCallion.

The good people of this country and within our communities are more than aware that Sinn Fein, the once proud revolutionary party, are not shy when it comes to lining their own pockets. In fact, they have become an outfit of deceit and selfishness. Over the past two decades they have been involved in backhand financial deals with the occupation resulting in direct funding from the occupation and those who seek to normalise imperialism in Ireland.

Famously, they have manipulated on a massive scale various positions and jobs within working class communities, keeping their party and family members in work while others - who are far more qualified - are kicked to the kerb simply because they don't tow the Sinn Fein line.

Sinn Fein members have a track record of embezzling money that was destined for better causes in Derry, this is reflected by the many ex-Republicans who now own houses, bars, nightclubs, security firms, holiday homes and taxi ranks. These people live in luxury while their former comrades, some of whom who still ride the 'Sinn Fein train' live in social housing with money problems and addiction.

The people of this city have for too long been at the mercy of capitalism, partition,  imperialism and the social-economic devastation it brings. Year In year out the electorate and the working class are promised better housing, more employment and opportunities, mental health facilities and funding, youth initiatives and youth development schemes. All promised by those who solidify the very structures that imposes these conditions on the working class.

Elisha McCallion has for too long insulted the people of Derry. She has made jokes at the fact that working class people find themselves in debt which can wreak devastation on those unfortunate enough to find themselves in that position. She insulted those campaigning for better mental health facilities in the city and for years she has made a career for herself claiming to struggle for what brave men and women fought and died for.

Elisha McCallion should hang her head in shame. Although she is in the spotlight today, she represents what Sinn Fein as a party have become.

????????????

This is a FG thread, have you anything to say on Varadkar?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 08:52:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 08:46:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 08:42:11 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 07:54:05 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 07:20:14 PM
Martin would give his left ball to stay as Taoiseach, the man has no position, no principals and us by far the worst leader the country has ever had. Hes only concerned with him having a legacy of being Taoiseach,  the people, right vrs wrong or justice are of no concern to him.

Have it in a nutshell Itchy. I haven't been keeping as close an eye as I should be on this with the American election, but have they managed to blame the shinners yet?
In a statement this evening (29th October), Elisha McCallion said she showed "poor judgment" over her participation which seen £30,000 wrongly obtained by Sinn Fein linked accounts.

One account Elisha admits, is a joint account belonging to her and her husband Declan McCallion. Declan is a well known drug abuser who in recent years, admitted his role in attacking an elderly couple whilst under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

Why did a known criminal have access to this money designed to help those suffering the hardship of Covid-19?

Had it not surfaced that Elisha and her colleagues had wrongly obtained this money, the people of Derry and the people she claims to represent, would not have been insulted with her excuse of yet another apology.

In the midst of a economically crippling global pandemic that has seen the working class face an increasingly aggressive environment that threatens their very livelihoods and mental health, ten of thousands of pounds are mysteriously appearing in the bank accounts of criminal, conniving, careerist politicians such as imperialist apologist and mouthpiece Elisha McCallion.

The good people of this country and within our communities are more than aware that Sinn Fein, the once proud revolutionary party, are not shy when it comes to lining their own pockets. In fact, they have become an outfit of deceit and selfishness. Over the past two decades they have been involved in backhand financial deals with the occupation resulting in direct funding from the occupation and those who seek to normalise imperialism in Ireland.

Famously, they have manipulated on a massive scale various positions and jobs within working class communities, keeping their party and family members in work while others - who are far more qualified - are kicked to the kerb simply because they don't tow the Sinn Fein line.

Sinn Fein members have a track record of embezzling money that was destined for better causes in Derry, this is reflected by the many ex-Republicans who now own houses, bars, nightclubs, security firms, holiday homes and taxi ranks. These people live in luxury while their former comrades, some of whom who still ride the 'Sinn Fein train' live in social housing with money problems and addiction.

The people of this city have for too long been at the mercy of capitalism, partition,  imperialism and the social-economic devastation it brings. Year In year out the electorate and the working class are promised better housing, more employment and opportunities, mental health facilities and funding, youth initiatives and youth development schemes. All promised by those who solidify the very structures that imposes these conditions on the working class.

Elisha McCallion has for too long insulted the people of Derry. She has made jokes at the fact that working class people find themselves in debt which can wreak devastation on those unfortunate enough to find themselves in that position. She insulted those campaigning for better mental health facilities in the city and for years she has made a career for herself claiming to struggle for what brave men and women fought and died for.

Elisha McCallion should hang her head in shame. Although she is in the spotlight today, she represents what Sinn Fein as a party have become.

????????????

This is a FG thread, have you anything to say on Varadkar?

Ireland's first gay Taoiseach. Very presentable. Very good on international stage. Not fond of his politics. Probably crooked like most politicians
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 08:52:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 08:46:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 08:42:11 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 07:54:05 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 07:20:14 PM
Martin would give his left ball to stay as Taoiseach, the man has no position, no principals and us by far the worst leader the country has ever had. Hes only concerned with him having a legacy of being Taoiseach,  the people, right vrs wrong or justice are of no concern to him.

Have it in a nutshell Itchy. I haven't been keeping as close an eye as I should be on this with the American election, but have they managed to blame the shinners yet?
In a statement this evening (29th October), Elisha McCallion said she showed "poor judgment" over her participation which seen £30,000 wrongly obtained by Sinn Fein linked accounts.

One account Elisha admits, is a joint account belonging to her and her husband Declan McCallion. Declan is a well known drug abuser who in recent years, admitted his role in attacking an elderly couple whilst under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

Why did a known criminal have access to this money designed to help those suffering the hardship of Covid-19?

Had it not surfaced that Elisha and her colleagues had wrongly obtained this money, the people of Derry and the people she claims to represent, would not have been insulted with her excuse of yet another apology.

In the midst of a economically crippling global pandemic that has seen the working class face an increasingly aggressive environment that threatens their very livelihoods and mental health, ten of thousands of pounds are mysteriously appearing in the bank accounts of criminal, conniving, careerist politicians such as imperialist apologist and mouthpiece Elisha McCallion.

The good people of this country and within our communities are more than aware that Sinn Fein, the once proud revolutionary party, are not shy when it comes to lining their own pockets. In fact, they have become an outfit of deceit and selfishness. Over the past two decades they have been involved in backhand financial deals with the occupation resulting in direct funding from the occupation and those who seek to normalise imperialism in Ireland.

Famously, they have manipulated on a massive scale various positions and jobs within working class communities, keeping their party and family members in work while others - who are far more qualified - are kicked to the kerb simply because they don't tow the Sinn Fein line.

Sinn Fein members have a track record of embezzling money that was destined for better causes in Derry, this is reflected by the many ex-Republicans who now own houses, bars, nightclubs, security firms, holiday homes and taxi ranks. These people live in luxury while their former comrades, some of whom who still ride the 'Sinn Fein train' live in social housing with money problems and addiction.

The people of this city have for too long been at the mercy of capitalism, partition,  imperialism and the social-economic devastation it brings. Year In year out the electorate and the working class are promised better housing, more employment and opportunities, mental health facilities and funding, youth initiatives and youth development schemes. All promised by those who solidify the very structures that imposes these conditions on the working class.

Elisha McCallion has for too long insulted the people of Derry. She has made jokes at the fact that working class people find themselves in debt which can wreak devastation on those unfortunate enough to find themselves in that position. She insulted those campaigning for better mental health facilities in the city and for years she has made a career for herself claiming to struggle for what brave men and women fought and died for.

Elisha McCallion should hang her head in shame. Although she is in the spotlight today, she represents what Sinn Fein as a party have become.

????????????

This is a FG thread, have you anything to say on Varadkar?

Ireland's first gay Taoiseach. Very presentable. Very good on international stage. Not fond of his politics. Probably crooked like most politicians

Would you right wing nuts not be anti gay no?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 09:58:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 08:52:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 08:46:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 08:42:11 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 07:54:05 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 07:20:14 PM
Martin would give his left ball to stay as Taoiseach, the man has no position, no principals and us by far the worst leader the country has ever had. Hes only concerned with him having a legacy of being Taoiseach,  the people, right vrs wrong or justice are of no concern to him.

Have it in a nutshell Itchy. I haven't been keeping as close an eye as I should be on this with the American election, but have they managed to blame the shinners yet?
In a statement this evening (29th October), Elisha McCallion said she showed "poor judgment" over her participation which seen £30,000 wrongly obtained by Sinn Fein linked accounts.

One account Elisha admits, is a joint account belonging to her and her husband Declan McCallion. Declan is a well known drug abuser who in recent years, admitted his role in attacking an elderly couple whilst under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

Why did a known criminal have access to this money designed to help those suffering the hardship of Covid-19?

Had it not surfaced that Elisha and her colleagues had wrongly obtained this money, the people of Derry and the people she claims to represent, would not have been insulted with her excuse of yet another apology.

In the midst of a economically crippling global pandemic that has seen the working class face an increasingly aggressive environment that threatens their very livelihoods and mental health, ten of thousands of pounds are mysteriously appearing in the bank accounts of criminal, conniving, careerist politicians such as imperialist apologist and mouthpiece Elisha McCallion.

The good people of this country and within our communities are more than aware that Sinn Fein, the once proud revolutionary party, are not shy when it comes to lining their own pockets. In fact, they have become an outfit of deceit and selfishness. Over the past two decades they have been involved in backhand financial deals with the occupation resulting in direct funding from the occupation and those who seek to normalise imperialism in Ireland.

Famously, they have manipulated on a massive scale various positions and jobs within working class communities, keeping their party and family members in work while others - who are far more qualified - are kicked to the kerb simply because they don't tow the Sinn Fein line.

Sinn Fein members have a track record of embezzling money that was destined for better causes in Derry, this is reflected by the many ex-Republicans who now own houses, bars, nightclubs, security firms, holiday homes and taxi ranks. These people live in luxury while their former comrades, some of whom who still ride the 'Sinn Fein train' live in social housing with money problems and addiction.

The people of this city have for too long been at the mercy of capitalism, partition,  imperialism and the social-economic devastation it brings. Year In year out the electorate and the working class are promised better housing, more employment and opportunities, mental health facilities and funding, youth initiatives and youth development schemes. All promised by those who solidify the very structures that imposes these conditions on the working class.

Elisha McCallion has for too long insulted the people of Derry. She has made jokes at the fact that working class people find themselves in debt which can wreak devastation on those unfortunate enough to find themselves in that position. She insulted those campaigning for better mental health facilities in the city and for years she has made a career for herself claiming to struggle for what brave men and women fought and died for.

Elisha McCallion should hang her head in shame. Although she is in the spotlight today, she represents what Sinn Fein as a party have become.

????????????

This is a FG thread, have you anything to say on Varadkar?

Ireland's first gay Taoiseach. Very presentable. Very good on international stage. Not fond of his politics. Probably crooked like most politicians

Would you right wing nuts not be anti gay no?

Who is right wing ? Basis? And also isn't it wile disappointing for SF to have FG comfortably and proudly have a gay man as Taoiseach. Reminds me a little of the Gardaí " fash bashing the anti lockdown crew". Really odd that a supposed right wing government were bashing the right wing. Jesus the spin master's wee heads must be spinning recently
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 10:03:05 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 09:58:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 08:52:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 08:46:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 08:42:11 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 07:54:05 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 07:20:14 PM
Martin would give his left ball to stay as Taoiseach, the man has no position, no principals and us by far the worst leader the country has ever had. Hes only concerned with him having a legacy of being Taoiseach,  the people, right vrs wrong or justice are of no concern to him.

Have it in a nutshell Itchy. I haven't been keeping as close an eye as I should be on this with the American election, but have they managed to blame the shinners yet?
In a statement this evening (29th October), Elisha McCallion said she showed "poor judgment" over her participation which seen £30,000 wrongly obtained by Sinn Fein linked accounts.

One account Elisha admits, is a joint account belonging to her and her husband Declan McCallion. Declan is a well known drug abuser who in recent years, admitted his role in attacking an elderly couple whilst under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

Why did a known criminal have access to this money designed to help those suffering the hardship of Covid-19?

Had it not surfaced that Elisha and her colleagues had wrongly obtained this money, the people of Derry and the people she claims to represent, would not have been insulted with her excuse of yet another apology.

In the midst of a economically crippling global pandemic that has seen the working class face an increasingly aggressive environment that threatens their very livelihoods and mental health, ten of thousands of pounds are mysteriously appearing in the bank accounts of criminal, conniving, careerist politicians such as imperialist apologist and mouthpiece Elisha McCallion.

The good people of this country and within our communities are more than aware that Sinn Fein, the once proud revolutionary party, are not shy when it comes to lining their own pockets. In fact, they have become an outfit of deceit and selfishness. Over the past two decades they have been involved in backhand financial deals with the occupation resulting in direct funding from the occupation and those who seek to normalise imperialism in Ireland.

Famously, they have manipulated on a massive scale various positions and jobs within working class communities, keeping their party and family members in work while others - who are far more qualified - are kicked to the kerb simply because they don't tow the Sinn Fein line.

Sinn Fein members have a track record of embezzling money that was destined for better causes in Derry, this is reflected by the many ex-Republicans who now own houses, bars, nightclubs, security firms, holiday homes and taxi ranks. These people live in luxury while their former comrades, some of whom who still ride the 'Sinn Fein train' live in social housing with money problems and addiction.

The people of this city have for too long been at the mercy of capitalism, partition,  imperialism and the social-economic devastation it brings. Year In year out the electorate and the working class are promised better housing, more employment and opportunities, mental health facilities and funding, youth initiatives and youth development schemes. All promised by those who solidify the very structures that imposes these conditions on the working class.

Elisha McCallion has for too long insulted the people of Derry. She has made jokes at the fact that working class people find themselves in debt which can wreak devastation on those unfortunate enough to find themselves in that position. She insulted those campaigning for better mental health facilities in the city and for years she has made a career for herself claiming to struggle for what brave men and women fought and died for.

Elisha McCallion should hang her head in shame. Although she is in the spotlight today, she represents what Sinn Fein as a party have become.

????????????

This is a FG thread, have you anything to say on Varadkar?

Ireland's first gay Taoiseach. Very presentable. Very good on international stage. Not fond of his politics. Probably crooked like most politicians

Would you right wing nuts not be anti gay no?

Who is right wing ? Basis? And also isn't it wile disappointing for SF to have FG comfortably and proudly have a gay man as Taoiseach. Reminds me a little of the Gardaí " fash bashing the anti lockdown crew". Really odd that a supposed right wing government were bashing the right wing. Jesus the spin master's wee heads must be spinning recently

Listen huge congrats on bringing SF into it. Very impressive. You should join FG really
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 10:07:45 PM
Another brainless left wing nut answer  ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 10:09:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 10:07:45 PM
Another brainless left wing nut answer  ;)

Oh i forgot they supported abortion so since you are one of these one issue voters you have to go elsewhere
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: andoireabu on November 05, 2020, 10:26:09 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 07:54:05 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 07:20:14 PM
Martin would give his left ball to stay as Taoiseach, the man has no position, no principals and us by far the worst leader the country has ever had. Hes only concerned with him having a legacy of being Taoiseach,  the people, right vrs wrong or justice are of no concern to him.

Have it in a nutshell Itchy. I haven't been keeping as close an eye as I should be on this with the American election, but have they managed to blame the shinners yet?

Don't know about blame but he threw in something about Stakeknife at Mary Lou is the Dáil which seemed a bit odd.

https://twitter.com/aoifegracemoore/status/1323962696715411457?s=19 (https://twitter.com/aoifegracemoore/status/1323962696715411457?s=19)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 11:13:54 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on November 05, 2020, 10:26:09 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 07:54:05 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 07:20:14 PM
Martin would give his left ball to stay as Taoiseach, the man has no position, no principals and us by far the worst leader the country has ever had. Hes only concerned with him having a legacy of being Taoiseach,  the people, right vrs wrong or justice are of no concern to him.

Have it in a nutshell Itchy. I haven't been keeping as close an eye as I should be on this with the American election, but have they managed to blame the shinners yet?

Don't know about blame but he threw in something about Stakeknife at Mary Lou is the Dáil which seemed a bit odd.

https://twitter.com/aoifegracemoore/status/1323962696715411457?s=19 (https://twitter.com/aoifegracemoore/status/1323962696715411457?s=19)

There are a lot of posters on here who would be from the north and obviously of a nationalist persuasion. Some are pro SF, others are very anti SF, fair enough.

But the way FF and FG constantly, without any remorse or empathy consistently politicise the troubles and only do it from one point of view is absolutely disgusting. Whatever political party any northern nationalist is attached they should absolutely disgusted by the sneers and slurs FF and FG engage with regard the troubles.

Would you ever hear them demand justice for the O'Dowd and Reavey families, Majella O'Hare, Ballymurphy, the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and we could go on all night here? You would in your hoop. Condescending, patronising and two faced - the free state establishments parties are in many ways a bigger evil than the most bigoted facets of unionism.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 06, 2020, 12:24:07 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 10:09:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 10:07:45 PM
Another brainless left wing nut answer  ;)

Oh i forgot they supported abortion so since you are one of these one issue voters you have to go elsewhere

Not at all a chara, and by the way they gave a free vote, unlike SF facists
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on November 06, 2020, 09:26:30 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 06, 2020, 12:24:07 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 10:09:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 10:07:45 PM
Another brainless left wing nut answer  ;)

Oh i forgot they supported abortion so since you are one of these one issue voters you have to go elsewhere

Not at all a chara, and by the way they gave a free vote, unlike SF facists

Well that would make all parties Fascist then as thats not how it works. Maybe you are too thick to understand that. But well done on deflecting Leo's corruption onto SF, you are a class act and a true Irish man.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 06, 2020, 12:00:15 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 06, 2020, 09:26:30 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 06, 2020, 12:24:07 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 10:09:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 10:07:45 PM
Another brainless left wing nut answer  ;)

Oh i forgot they supported abortion so since you are one of these one issue voters you have to go elsewhere

Not at all a chara, and by the way they gave a free vote, unlike SF facists

Well that would make all parties Fascist then as thats not how it works. Maybe you are too thick to understand that. But well done on deflecting Leo's corruption onto SF, you are a class act and a true Irish man.

Emmm. It is how it worked. SF were the only large party to enforce the party whip on the Repeal vote  :D :D :D :D :D :D. Tá an fhírinne searbh
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 06, 2020, 12:08:52 PM
https://twitter.com/VillageMagIRE/status/1324467163160301569

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 06, 2020, 12:44:13 PM
Motion of no confidence in Varadkar to be put forward on Tuesday
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 06, 2020, 01:02:40 PM
RTE have led with their headline stories:

US Presidential election
Witness intimidation in a murder trial

When news has just broken of a motion of no confidence being proposed against the Tanaiste.

You literally could not make it up.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on November 06, 2020, 01:35:47 PM
I can imagine the histrionics in D4 if Mary Lou McDonald had leaked something like this to a pal, whom she "pulled strings for all the time"

The Greens are some shower of spineless hoors too.  They've really shown themselves up over the past few months.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on November 06, 2020, 01:40:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 06, 2020, 12:00:15 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 06, 2020, 09:26:30 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 06, 2020, 12:24:07 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 10:09:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 10:07:45 PM
Another brainless left wing nut answer  ;)

Oh i forgot they supported abortion so since you are one of these one issue voters you have to go elsewhere

Not at all a chara, and by the way they gave a free vote, unlike SF facists

Well that would make all parties Fascist then as thats not how it works. Maybe you are too thick to understand that. But well done on deflecting Leo's corruption onto SF, you are a class act and a true Irish man.

Emmm. It is how it worked. SF were the only large party to enforce the party whip on the Repeal vote  :D :D :D :D :D :D. Tá an fhírinne searbh

Because it was in their manifesto and is a core belief. FF and FG and watery pricks who stand for nothing and your budies are watery pricks that stand for only one thing, a thing they have no chance to turn back
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 06, 2020, 02:25:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 06, 2020, 01:40:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 06, 2020, 12:00:15 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 06, 2020, 09:26:30 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 06, 2020, 12:24:07 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 10:09:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 10:07:45 PM
Another brainless left wing nut answer  ;)

Oh i forgot they supported abortion so since you are one of these one issue voters you have to go elsewhere

Not at all a chara, and by the way they gave a free vote, unlike SF facists

Well that would make all parties Fascist then as thats not how it works. Maybe you are too thick to understand that. But well done on deflecting Leo's corruption onto SF, you are a class act and a true Irish man.

Emmm. It is how it worked. SF were the only large party to enforce the party whip on the Repeal vote  :D :D :D :D :D :D. Tá an fhírinne searbh

Because it was in their manifesto and is a core belief. FF and FG and watery pricks who stand for nothing and your budies are watery pricks that stand for only one thing, a thing they have no chance to turn back

Wrong again.
It wasn't in their manifesto. Have you actually got one answer correct yet?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 06, 2020, 03:08:33 PM
Ok guys.

It's clear what FBNS is doing here.

If ye want to take this conversation elsewhere then do so but this should be about Varadkar and his corrupt actions right now.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 06, 2020, 03:15:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 06, 2020, 03:08:33 PM
Ok guys.

It's clear what FBNS is doing here.

If ye want to take this conversation elsewhere then do so but this should be about Varadkar and his corrupt actions right now.

I think you will find I didn't bring SF into it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 06, 2020, 03:20:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 06, 2020, 03:15:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 06, 2020, 03:08:33 PM
Ok guys.

It's clear what FBNS is doing here.

If ye want to take this conversation elsewhere then do so but this should be about Varadkar and his corrupt actions right now.

I think you will find I didn't bring SF into it.

You haven't talked about FG at all which bigs the question why you are here.

Have you anything to say on Varadkar getting caught bang to right in leaking confidential documents to his pal or are you merely just here to deflect?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 06, 2020, 03:21:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 06, 2020, 03:15:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 06, 2020, 03:08:33 PM
Ok guys.

It's clear what FBNS is doing here.

If ye want to take this conversation elsewhere then do so but this should be about Varadkar and his corrupt actions right now.

I think you will find I didn't bring SF into it.

Completely disingenuous. Someone posted a light hearted post about someone bringing the Shinners into it and you jumped in with this post.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 08:42:11 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 07:54:05 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 07:20:14 PM
Martin would give his left ball to stay as Taoiseach, the man has no position, no principals and us by far the worst leader the country has ever had. Hes only concerned with him having a legacy of being Taoiseach,  the people, right vrs wrong or justice are of no concern to him.

Have it in a nutshell Itchy. I haven't been keeping as close an eye as I should be on this with the American election, but have they managed to blame the shinners yet?
In a statement this evening (29th October), Elisha McCallion said she showed "poor judgment" over her participation which seen £30,000 wrongly obtained by Sinn Fein linked accounts.

One account Elisha admits, is a joint account belonging to her and her husband Declan McCallion. Declan is a well known drug abuser who in recent years, admitted his role in attacking an elderly couple whilst under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

Why did a known criminal have access to this money designed to help those suffering the hardship of Covid-19?

Had it not surfaced that Elisha and her colleagues had wrongly obtained this money, the people of Derry and the people she claims to represent, would not have been insulted with her excuse of yet another apology.

In the midst of a economically crippling global pandemic that has seen the working class face an increasingly aggressive environment that threatens their very livelihoods and mental health, ten of thousands of pounds are mysteriously appearing in the bank accounts of criminal, conniving, careerist politicians such as imperialist apologist and mouthpiece Elisha McCallion.

The good people of this country and within our communities are more than aware that Sinn Fein, the once proud revolutionary party, are not shy when it comes to lining their own pockets. In fact, they have become an outfit of deceit and selfishness. Over the past two decades they have been involved in backhand financial deals with the occupation resulting in direct funding from the occupation and those who seek to normalise imperialism in Ireland.

Famously, they have manipulated on a massive scale various positions and jobs within working class communities, keeping their party and family members in work while others - who are far more qualified - are kicked to the kerb simply because they don't tow the Sinn Fein line.

Sinn Fein members have a track record of embezzling money that was destined for better causes in Derry, this is reflected by the many ex-Republicans who now own houses, bars, nightclubs, security firms, holiday homes and taxi ranks. These people live in luxury while their former comrades, some of whom who still ride the 'Sinn Fein train' live in social housing with money problems and addiction.

The people of this city have for too long been at the mercy of capitalism, partition,  imperialism and the social-economic devastation it brings. Year In year out the electorate and the working class are promised better housing, more employment and opportunities, mental health facilities and funding, youth initiatives and youth development schemes. All promised by those who solidify the very structures that imposes these conditions on the working class.

Elisha McCallion has for too long insulted the people of Derry. She has made jokes at the fact that working class people find themselves in debt which can wreak devastation on those unfortunate enough to find themselves in that position. She insulted those campaigning for better mental health facilities in the city and for years she has made a career for herself claiming to struggle for what brave men and women fought and died for.

Elisha McCallion should hang her head in shame. Although she is in the spotlight today, she represents what Sinn Fein as a party have become.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 06, 2020, 03:22:17 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 06, 2020, 03:21:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 06, 2020, 03:15:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 06, 2020, 03:08:33 PM
Ok guys.

It's clear what FBNS is doing here.

If ye want to take this conversation elsewhere then do so but this should be about Varadkar and his corrupt actions right now.

I think you will find I didn't bring SF into it.

Completely disingenuous. Someone posted a light hearted post about someone bringing the Shinners into it and you jumped in with this post.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 05, 2020, 08:42:11 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2020, 07:54:05 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2020, 07:20:14 PM
Martin would give his left ball to stay as Taoiseach, the man has no position, no principals and us by far the worst leader the country has ever had. Hes only concerned with him having a legacy of being Taoiseach,  the people, right vrs wrong or justice are of no concern to him.

Have it in a nutshell Itchy. I haven't been keeping as close an eye as I should be on this with the American election, but have they managed to blame the shinners yet?
In a statement this evening (29th October), Elisha McCallion said she showed "poor judgment" over her participation which seen £30,000 wrongly obtained by Sinn Fein linked accounts.

One account Elisha admits, is a joint account belonging to her and her husband Declan McCallion. Declan is a well known drug abuser who in recent years, admitted his role in attacking an elderly couple whilst under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

Why did a known criminal have access to this money designed to help those suffering the hardship of Covid-19?

Had it not surfaced that Elisha and her colleagues had wrongly obtained this money, the people of Derry and the people she claims to represent, would not have been insulted with her excuse of yet another apology.

In the midst of a economically crippling global pandemic that has seen the working class face an increasingly aggressive environment that threatens their very livelihoods and mental health, ten of thousands of pounds are mysteriously appearing in the bank accounts of criminal, conniving, careerist politicians such as imperialist apologist and mouthpiece Elisha McCallion.

The good people of this country and within our communities are more than aware that Sinn Fein, the once proud revolutionary party, are not shy when it comes to lining their own pockets. In fact, they have become an outfit of deceit and selfishness. Over the past two decades they have been involved in backhand financial deals with the occupation resulting in direct funding from the occupation and those who seek to normalise imperialism in Ireland.

Famously, they have manipulated on a massive scale various positions and jobs within working class communities, keeping their party and family members in work while others - who are far more qualified - are kicked to the kerb simply because they don't tow the Sinn Fein line.

Sinn Fein members have a track record of embezzling money that was destined for better causes in Derry, this is reflected by the many ex-Republicans who now own houses, bars, nightclubs, security firms, holiday homes and taxi ranks. These people live in luxury while their former comrades, some of whom who still ride the 'Sinn Fein train' live in social housing with money problems and addiction.

The people of this city have for too long been at the mercy of capitalism, partition,  imperialism and the social-economic devastation it brings. Year In year out the electorate and the working class are promised better housing, more employment and opportunities, mental health facilities and funding, youth initiatives and youth development schemes. All promised by those who solidify the very structures that imposes these conditions on the working class.

Elisha McCallion has for too long insulted the people of Derry. She has made jokes at the fact that working class people find themselves in debt which can wreak devastation on those unfortunate enough to find themselves in that position. She insulted those campaigning for better mental health facilities in the city and for years she has made a career for herself claiming to struggle for what brave men and women fought and died for.

Elisha McCallion should hang her head in shame. Although she is in the spotlight today, she represents what Sinn Fein as a party have become.

Take yer oil
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 06, 2020, 03:24:19 PM
Or how about you stop polluting thread for your own political bias. Knock yourself out with the shinner bashing, but keep it to a relevant thread.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on November 11, 2020, 12:07:10 AM
So Varadkar dodges the bullet (as if it was ever going to be different).

What was left of the FG mask has slipped badly with this one and the Greens are just an absolute joke.  They'll be wiped out next time round.

Micheal Martin, desperate to cling to power, won't lay a glove on the leader of his traditional enemy.

The sheep in the Dail have dug out their notebooks and are talking about Columba McVeigh.  Heather Humphreys doesn't give a fcuk about Columba McVeigh, or his family, or Breege Quinn, or Tom Oliver, or Austin Stack.  Just names to throw out when backed into a corner.

It really is no better than the cute hoors in the Galway Tent.

And the best part of it all, they think they are being 'progressive'.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: general_lee on November 11, 2020, 08:17:48 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 06, 2020, 03:24:19 PM
Or how about you stop polluting thread for your own political bias. Knock yourself out with the shinner bashing, but keep it to a relevant thread.
He must be a saoradh man

Quote from: Franko on November 11, 2020, 12:07:10 AM
So Varadkar dodges the bullet (as if it was ever going to be different).

What was left of the FG mask has slipped badly with this one and the Greens are just an absolute joke.  They'll be wiped out next time round.

Micheal Martin, desperate to cling to power, won't lay a glove on the leader of his traditional enemy.

The sheep in the Dail have dug out their notebooks and are talking about Columba McVeigh.  Heather Humphreys doesn't give a fcuk about Columba McVeigh, or his family, or Breege Quinn, or Tom Oliver, or Austin Stack.  Just names to throw out when backed into a corner.

It really is no better than the cute hoors in the Galway Tent.

And the best part of it all, they think they are being 'progressive'.
What else would you expect? They are absolutely pathetic. The precarious nature of this government, their lust for power and complete fear of SF means there is no low they won't stoop to.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2020, 09:35:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

This wasn't about the crimes of the IRA. This was about the leaking of a confidential document by the FG leader when he was Taoiseach.

I understand that leaking of confidential documents is now FG policy seeing as they are all ok with it, and FF and the Greens too by extension.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: tiempo on November 11, 2020, 09:37:02 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.


Which one/few of the 65 was it?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: general_lee on November 11, 2020, 09:47:27 AM
Rossfan is a case in point!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on November 11, 2020, 09:57:09 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

I can assure you, I'm no shinner.  And no, I didn't think it was ever going to be any different, which is why I wrote "as if it was ever going to be different"

No comment on Varadkar whatsoever then?  Another Heather Humphreys style rant just?

Defend and deflect at all costs for the good of the party.  And these are the folk who would like to call others 'bots'.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 10:24:11 AM
I, like I suspect half of FG and all of FF was delighted to see smartarse Varadkar squirming and apologising and taken down a peg ir 2.
Showing 1 crowd of doctors a deal that had been reached with another crowd of doctors didn't exactly bother the General public who live outside the political bubble.
Apart from Farradeelin and 6 Co folk there were no comments here.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on November 11, 2020, 10:33:26 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 11, 2020, 12:07:10 AM
So Varadkar dodges the bullet (as if it was ever going to be different).

What was left of the FG mask has slipped badly with this one and the Greens are just an absolute joke.  They'll be wiped out next time round.

Micheal Martin, desperate to cling to power, won't lay a glove on the leader of his traditional enemy.

The sheep in the Dail have dug out their notebooks and are talking about Columba McVeigh.  Heather Humphreys doesn't give a fcuk about Columba McVeigh, or his family, or Breege Quinn, or Tom Oliver, or Austin Stack.  Just names to throw out when backed into a corner.

It really is no better than the cute hoors in the Galway Tent.

And the best part of it all, they think they are being 'progressive'.

I think what Varadkar did was a sackable offence. It doesn't appear as if he gained personally from it but it shows a lack of integrity imo. I'd say this has damaged him in a big way and is the beginning of the end for him
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: macdanger2 on November 11, 2020, 10:34:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 10:24:11 AM
Apart from Farradeelin and 6 Co folk there were no comments here.

A certain amount of that probably has to do with not wanting to go down a pointless rabbit hole with one particular poster tbf
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on November 11, 2020, 10:39:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 10:24:11 AM
I, like I suspect half of FG and all of FF was delighted to see smartarse Varadkar squirming and apologising and taken down a peg ir 2.
Showing 1 crowd of doctors a deal that had been reached with another crowd of doctors didn't exactly bother the General public who live outside the political bubble.
Apart from Farradeelin and 6 Co folk there were no comments here.

A very compliant media no doubt helped in that regard.  I very much doubt that Mary Lou McDonald would have been given a similar pass.

Three questions, if you would oblige me:

1. Do you think he should have resigned?
2. Do you think that FG and FF would have demanded the resignation of a SF minister who did the same?
3. Do you, or Heather Humphreys actually care about the fate of Columba McVeigh, or do you just throw out his name when politically convenient?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 11, 2020, 11:05:18 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

Think you need to learn your Irish history.

The FFG forefathers had plenty of blood on their hands, plenty of sectarian murders, disappeared among them women and children, fathers and husbands murdered in front of their children. But that was justified? Right? for freedom, democracy and equality? Or was it? Did FFG ever have a reconciliation process for the dastardly acts they committed in The War of Independence?

We now have their entitled offspring in parliament, dressed in nice suits doing the bidding of billionaires at the cost of the citizens, overseeing record homeless numbers, a dysfunctional rundown health service, direct provision centres. Everything about FFG is to service the elite and well heeled in society.

The thing about you, living in your bog down in Roscommon is that you never suffered the consequences of being brought up a Catholic in a Protestant state. All you are is a backward, blowhard freestater born into entitlement with a misplaced sense of sanctimony.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: naka on November 11, 2020, 11:11:40 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.
jeez Rossfan, you need to know your history before coming out with a statement like that.
the birth of the free state was as  vicious and bloody as the worst of the troubles so the forefathers to the two parties in government have blood on their hand..

would never see myself as a shinner btw.
think their policies are simplistic
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 11, 2020, 11:14:47 AM
Quote from: Franko on November 11, 2020, 10:39:22 AM

3. Do you, or Heather Humphreys actually care about the fate of Columba McVeigh, or do you just throw out his name when politically convenient?

Given that the FG minister for justice actively thwarted the McAnespie family's bid for justice I think you know the answer.

FG have actively sought to protect justice for many victims of the troubles. We all know they were involved in the coverup of the Dublin Monaghan bombings, the biggest terrorist atrocity to occur in their state. We all know they appointed as head of their police service a chap who was a high ranking official in a disgraced, disbanded sectarian police force. A guy who was involved in shutting down an investigation into the most vicious sectarian murder gang that operated during the troubles.

FG are absolute scum so it shouldn't surprise you that Rossfan aligns himself with such. He is what you'd call a 26 county bigot who looks down upon northern nationalists and belittles their plight.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 11, 2020, 11:16:02 AM
Quote from: naka on November 11, 2020, 11:11:40 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.
jeez Rossfan, you need to know your history before coming out with a statement like that.
the birth of the free state was as  vicious and bloody as the worst of the troubles so the forefathers to the two parties in government have blood on their hand..

would never see myself as a shinner btw.
think their policies are simplistic

Whether a shinner or not, any northern nationalist should be appalled and disgusted by the mindsets of the establishment parties of the 26 counties.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

Your version of our history is seriously distorted.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20225871.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 11, 2020, 11:32:08 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunmanway_killings

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fate-of-disappeared-in-war-of-independence-could-yet-be-revealed-39506635.html

You hear a lot about Jean McConville. You never hear much about Maria Lindsay.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 11:44:57 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

Your version of our history is seriously distorted.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20225871.html
The "them wans did it too" defence.

Franko if every leading politician had to resign for every mistake/wrongdoing/error if judgement we'd have none left.
Of course FF/FG would demand Marylou's resignation if the roles were reversed.
That's why real people don't pass much heed of the oul playing the game stuff in the Dâil.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 11, 2020, 11:54:36 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 11:44:57 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

Your version of our history is seriously distorted.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20225871.html
The "them wans did it too" defence.

Franko if every leading politician had to resign for every mistake/wrongdoing/error if judgement we'd have none left.
Of course FF/FG would demand Marylou's resignation if the roles were reversed.
That's why real people don't pass much heed of the oul playing the game stuff in the Dâil.

Yet you call out one side on it.

We can see all you are is a sanctimonious 26 county bigot who is not interested in actually applying your concocted moral standards.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on November 11, 2020, 12:00:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 11:44:57 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

Your version of our history is seriously distorted.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20225871.html
The "them wans did it too" defence.

Franko if every leading politician had to resign for every mistake/wrongdoing/error if judgement we'd have none left.
Of course FF/FG would demand Marylou's resignation if the roles were reversed.
That's why real people don't pass much heed of the oul playing the game stuff in the Dâil.

Heather Humphreys and your defence was "them ones did worse".  Until you were shown some facts regarding your own history.

I believe he should have resigned.  No questions asked.  It's blatant corruption.  He undermined the position of the state he was head of in negotiations.  Then he lied about it.  Then when caught, he had got rid of evidence.  Last night he was busy attacking the publication that broke the story in the Dail.

We also have the matter of the other 'strings' that he had pulled for O'Tuathail.

You dodged question 3 completely.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 12:11:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 11:44:57 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

Your version of our history is seriously distorted.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20225871.html
The "them wans did it too" defence.

Franko if every leading politician had to resign for every mistake/wrongdoing/error if judgement we'd have none left.
Of course FF/FG would demand Marylou's resignation if the roles were reversed.
That's why real people don't pass much heed of the oul playing the game stuff in the Dâil.

It's not a defence. I'm calling you out because you literally said they never did it. As someone already said, if you're going to throw stones, throw them at everybody.

Let me guess, you're not as concerned about what happened then because 'they were different times'?

The holier than thou attitude is getting tiresome.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 11, 2020, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 11:44:57 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

Your version of our history is seriously distorted.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20225871.html
The "them wans did it too" defence.

Franko if every leading politician had to resign for every mistake/wrongdoing/error if judgement we'd have none left.
Of course FF/FG would demand Marylou's resignation if the roles were reversed.
That's why real people don't pass much heed of the oul playing the game stuff in the Dâil.

Is it any different from the whataboutery you just preformed in the previous page to try and deflect from talking about the issue at hand?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 11, 2020, 12:36:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 11, 2020, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 11:44:57 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

Your version of our history is seriously distorted.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20225871.html
The "them wans did it too" defence.

Franko if every leading politician had to resign for every mistake/wrongdoing/error if judgement we'd have none left.
Of course FF/FG would demand Marylou's resignation if the roles were reversed.
That's why real people don't pass much heed of the oul playing the game stuff in the Dâil.

Is it any different from the whataboutery you just preformed in the previous page to try and deflect from talking about the issue at hand?

It's not but expect him to run away now.

That's the problem with sanctimony, you might actually be held to account to your moral pontificating and clearly Rossfan has no real moral revulsion about those acts, he just uses them to release his brand of bigotry and will run away when pressed on the double standards. He's not smart enough or brave enough to be able to stand over comments like that.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: tiempo on November 11, 2020, 01:08:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 11, 2020, 12:36:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 11, 2020, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 11:44:57 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

Your version of our history is seriously distorted.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20225871.html
The "them wans did it too" defence.

Franko if every leading politician had to resign for every mistake/wrongdoing/error if judgement we'd have none left.
Of course FF/FG would demand Marylou's resignation if the roles were reversed.
That's why real people don't pass much heed of the oul playing the game stuff in the Dâil.

Is it any different from the whataboutery you just preformed in the previous page to try and deflect from talking about the issue at hand?

It's not but expect him to run away now.

That's the problem with sanctimony, you might actually be held to account to your moral pontificating and clearly Rossfan has no real moral revulsion about those acts, he just uses them to release his brand of bigotry and will run away when pressed on the double standards. He's not smart enough or brave enough to be able to stand over comments like that.

Standard MO of a quisling from the shires
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 01:16:06 PM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

Your version of our history is seriously distorted.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20225871.html
The Provos claimed continuity from those fighters in 1920/21.
FG and FF broke away from the IRA and SF of those days. ;)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 01:42:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 01:16:06 PM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

Your version of our history is seriously distorted.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20225871.html
The Provos claimed continuity from those fighters in 1920/21.
FG and FF broke away from the IRA and SF of those days. ;)

Really? You might actually want to click into that link. It seems you're confused, unsurprisingly.

It's nice of you to confirm what we all know anyway, that it was ok then because 'it was a different time'. Hypocritical, sanctimonious drivel.

Rather than actually call out all wrongdoing you'd rather do petty point-scoring. Pretty pathetic to be honest. But you know that anyway.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 11, 2020, 02:15:00 PM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 01:42:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 01:16:06 PM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

Your version of our history is seriously distorted.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20225871.html
The Provos claimed continuity from those fighters in 1920/21.
FG and FF broke away from the IRA and SF of those days. ;)

Really? You might actually want to click into that link. It seems you're confused, unsurprisingly.

It's nice of you to confirm what we all know anyway, that it was ok then because 'it was a different time'. Hypocritical, sanctimonious drivel.

Rather than actually call out all wrongdoing you'd rather do petty point-scoring. Pretty pathetic to be honest. But you know that anyway.

Confirmation what we already knew. He rarely disappoints.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Dear Throughthelaces
Cumann na nGaedheal (as spelt at the time) broke away from SF to set up the new State. They joined others to form FG in the 1930s.
FF broke away from SF 1926 or 27 so they could take their seats in the Free State Dáil.
The Provos always claimed they were the true continuation of the 1919 to 21 men and their Army Council was the only legitimate successor to the 2nd Dáil.
As for deflection.... funny how the article about Varadkar appeared something like 2 years after the event......
Around the same time as SF were having a bit of Internal bother 😃
Total coincidence of course....

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 04:08:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Dear Throughthelaces
Cumann na nGaedheal (as spelt at the time) broke away from SF to set up the new State. They joined others to form FG in the 1930s.
FF broke away from SF 1926 or 27 so they could take their seats in the Free State Dáil.
The Provos always claimed they were the true continuation of the 1919 to 21 men and their Army Council was the only legitimate successor to the 2nd Dáil.
As for deflection.... funny how the article about Varadkar appeared something like 2 years after the event......
Around the same time as SF were having a bit of Internal bother 😃
Total coincidence of course....

You still (and still unsurprisingly) seem confused. The link I posted relates to your original sanctimonious post.

It's good to see the type of persn you are though.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 11, 2020, 04:41:18 PM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 04:08:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Dear Throughthelaces
Cumann na nGaedheal (as spelt at the time) broke away from SF to set up the new State. They joined others to form FG in the 1930s.
FF broke away from SF 1926 or 27 so they could take their seats in the Free State Dáil.
The Provos always claimed they were the true continuation of the 1919 to 21 men and their Army Council was the only legitimate successor to the 2nd Dáil.
As for deflection.... funny how the article about Varadkar appeared something like 2 years after the event......
Around the same time as SF were having a bit of Internal bother 😃
Total coincidence of course....

You still (and still unsurprisingly) seem confused. The link I posted relates to your original sanctimonious post.

It's good to see the type of persn you are though.

I don't think its confusion, just his stupidity/ignorance/bigotry.

Don't expect any sort of real engagement, he doesn't back himself in a meaningful debate with anyone.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on November 11, 2020, 04:51:36 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2020, 09:35:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

This wasn't about the crimes of the IRA. This was about the leaking of a confidential document by the FG leader when he was Taoiseach.

I understand that leaking of confidential documents is now FG policy seeing as they are all ok with it, and FF and the Greens too by extension.

Everything is about the IRA when it comes to Blueshirts. Even when someone is openly corrupt they don't care. Its absolutely pathetic. Martin is a disgrace of a man, only interested in clinging to power at any cost and he knows due to his weak leadership FF would be wiped out in an election. Same with the greens. Principals don't exist with these people, they are all about themselves, an embarrassment to their country. These FF & FG politicians don't get into politics for love of country they get in for love of power and money. And you can say what you want about SF but the vast majority of their officials have a clear reason for being in politics and its not lining their own pockets, its a united Ireland, so their is some principal and some mission to what they are about.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 05:12:33 PM
And the Holiday homes in Donegal ;) and wasn't there something about a load of houses in Manchester too?
Through the laces I see you're resorting to playing the man .
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on November 11, 2020, 05:18:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 05:12:33 PM
And the Holiday homes in Donegal ;) and wasn't there something about a load of houses in Manchester too?
Through the laces I see you're resorting to playing the man .

Good to see you back.

You still never answered my questions from earlier.

1. Do you think he should have resigned?
2. Do you, or Heather Humphreys actually care about the fate of Columba McVeigh, or do you just throw out his name when politically convenient?

Also, the 'ball' in this instance is Varadker's leaking of documents to his pals.

With that in mind, you and most of our sitting TD's have barely touched leather.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 05:48:48 PM
Some of us have to work for a living and out in the fkn rain too.
No.
Yes. Can't speak for Ms Humphreys.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 06:32:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 05:48:48 PM
Some of us have to work for a living and out in the fkn rain too.
No.
Yes. Can't speak for Ms Humphreys.

You care about Columba McVeigh but not those disappeared by TD Martin Corry? Why is that?

In no way playing the man. If you're showing yourself up to be an ignorant clown please don't put that on me. It's your own doing.

You don't actually have coherent argument, just slinging mud. It seems from others' comments though that that's to be expected.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on November 11, 2020, 07:40:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 05:12:33 PM
And the Holiday homes in Donegal ;) and wasn't there something about a load of houses in Manchester too?
Through the laces I see you're resorting to playing the man .

Pathetic response. You pay their wages and you deflect from their corruption. That makes you an idiot.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on November 11, 2020, 08:35:09 PM
Here is a good one.

13 out of the last 15 posts on FG Facebook page have been about SF
There are 10 video posts in a row on the FG Facebook page about SF

Sad shower of bastards.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 11, 2020, 09:00:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 11, 2020, 08:35:09 PM
Here is a good one.

13 out of the last 15 posts on FG Facebook page have been about SF
There are 10 video posts in a row on the FG Facebook page about SF

Sad shower of bastards.

Money well spent by FG.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/taoiseach-s-department-of-spin-will-cost-5-million-in-2018-1.3251242?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Ftaoiseach-s-department-of-spin-will-cost-5-million-in-2018-1.3251242


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: HiMucker on November 11, 2020, 09:14:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 10:24:11 AM
I, like I suspect half of FG and all of FF was delighted to see smartarse Varadkar squirming and apologising and taken down a peg ir 2.
Showing 1 crowd of doctors a deal that had been reached with another crowd of doctors didn't exactly bother the General public who live outside the political bubble.
Apart from Farradeelin and 6 Co folk there were no comments here.
And why do you think that was? I'll give you a clue. It's the same reason you can rhyme off the names of Jean Mcconville, McCabe, , Gillespie, but you'll struggle to name any of the victims of the Dublin Monaghan bombs, Bloody Sunday, Greysteele etc etc
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on November 11, 2020, 10:50:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

Oh ffs. Is that you Heather?

Absolutely pathetic.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 11:01:54 PM
Connolly House has the bots on overtime😃
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 11, 2020, 11:03:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 11:01:54 PM
Connolly House has the bots on overtime😃

They've made bits of you in this thread anyway.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 11:23:11 PM
No they didn't.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Chief on November 12, 2020, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Dear Throughthelaces
Cumann na nGaedheal (as spelt at the time) broke away from SF to set up the new State. They joined others to form FG in the 1930s.
FF broke away from SF 1926 or 27 so they could take their seats in the Free State Dáil.
The Provos always claimed they were the true continuation of the 1919 to 21 men and their Army Council was the only legitimate successor to the 2nd Dáil.
As for deflection.... funny how the article about Varadkar appeared something like 2 years after the event......
Around the same time as SF were having a bit of Internal bother 😃
Total coincidence of course....

The current 26 County State, Cumann na nGaedheal (and therefore it's successors Fine Gael), & Fianna Fáil also (and continue to) draw their legitimacy from those fighters and Second Dail.

What we have now in FF, FG and SF is essentially three branches of the old War of Independence SF. 

Each has come to recognise the current 26 state at different speeds and via different paths.

FF, FG and current SF, (and therefore a fair ol chunk of political parties of the island), all share equal historical political links to those War of Independence war crimes.

Three things that are strange though

1) Without a hint of shame or irony, successive 26 county FF/FG governments didn't care to take action about the war crimes they could do something about in their own jurisdiction,  but care deeply about seeing action taken about the same type of war crimes committed outside their jurisdiction.
2) Without a hint of shame or irony perpetrators of those crimes were good enough to be in FF/FG government.
3) SF supporters point to this as a way of trying to shut down debate about their own war crimes (in the form of the Disappeared) during the Troubles without a hint of shame or irony.

In short both sides are current playing gesture politics about War Crimes. Which is deplorable.

The GP contract is small beer in comparison.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 07:17:43 AM
Quote from: Chief on November 12, 2020, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Dear Throughthelaces
Cumann na nGaedheal (as spelt at the time) broke away from SF to set up the new State. They joined others to form FG in the 1930s.
FF broke away from SF 1926 or 27 so they could take their seats in the Free State Dáil.
The Provos always claimed they were the true continuation of the 1919 to 21 men and their Army Council was the only legitimate successor to the 2nd Dáil.
As for deflection.... funny how the article about Varadkar appeared something like 2 years after the event......
Around the same time as SF were having a bit of Internal bother 😃
Total coincidence of course....

The current 26 County State, Cumann na nGaedheal (and therefore it's successors Fine Gael), & Fianna Fáil also (and continue to) draw their legitimacy from those fighters and Second Dail.

What we have now in FF, FG and SF is essentially three branches of the old War of Independence SF. 

Each has come to recognise the current 26 state at different speeds and via different paths.

FF, FG and current SF, (and therefore a fair ol chunk of political parties of the island), all share equal historical political links to those War of Independence war crimes.

Three things that are strange though

1) Without a hint of shame or irony, successive 26 county FF/FG governments didn't care to take action about the war crimes they could do something about in their own jurisdiction,  but care deeply about seeing action taken about the same type of war crimes committed outside their jurisdiction.
2) Without a hint of shame or irony perpetrators of those crimes were good enough to be in FF/FG government.
3) SF supporters point to this as a way of trying to shut down debate about their own war crimes (in the form of the Disappeared) during the Troubles without a hint of shame or irony.

In short both sides are current playing gesture politics about War Crimes. Which is deplorable.

The GP contract is small beer in comparison.

When it comes to the Disappeared, Sinn Féin at least used their influence to help the search for remains. Most remains have been found at this stage (hopefully all will be). There was estimated to be at least ten times more people Disappeared throughout the few years of the Tan War than were Disappeared during the Troubles. FF/FG never once tried to use their influence to find one of the bodies. Can anyone even remember them ever acknowledging these remains even exist?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:56:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 07:17:43 AM
Quote from: Chief on November 12, 2020, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Dear Throughthelaces
Cumann na nGaedheal (as spelt at the time) broke away from SF to set up the new State. They joined others to form FG in the 1930s.
FF broke away from SF 1926 or 27 so they could take their seats in the Free State Dáil.
The Provos always claimed they were the true continuation of the 1919 to 21 men and their Army Council was the only legitimate successor to the 2nd Dáil.
As for deflection.... funny how the article about Varadkar appeared something like 2 years after the event......
Around the same time as SF were having a bit of Internal bother 😃
Total coincidence of course....

The current 26 County State, Cumann na nGaedheal (and therefore it's successors Fine Gael), & Fianna Fáil also (and continue to) draw their legitimacy from those fighters and Second Dail.

What we have now in FF, FG and SF is essentially three branches of the old War of Independence SF. 

Each has come to recognise the current 26 state at different speeds and via different paths.

FF, FG and current SF, (and therefore a fair ol chunk of political parties of the island), all share equal historical political links to those War of Independence war crimes.

Three things that are strange though

1) Without a hint of shame or irony, successive 26 county FF/FG governments didn't care to take action about the war crimes they could do something about in their own jurisdiction,  but care deeply about seeing action taken about the same type of war crimes committed outside their jurisdiction.
2) Without a hint of shame or irony perpetrators of those crimes were good enough to be in FF/FG government.
3) SF supporters point to this as a way of trying to shut down debate about their own war crimes (in the form of the Disappeared) during the Troubles without a hint of shame or irony.

In short both sides are current playing gesture politics about War Crimes. Which is deplorable.

The GP contract is small beer in comparison.

When it comes to the Disappeared, Sinn Féin at least used their influence to help the search for remains. Most remains have been found at this stage (hopefully all will be). There was estimated to be at least ten times more people Disappeared throughout the few years of the Tan War than were Disappeared during the Troubles. FF/FG never once tried to use their influence to find one of the bodies. Can anyone even remember them ever acknowledging these remains even exist?

Disgusting post. Used their influence! Wile good of them.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 08:10:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:56:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 07:17:43 AM
Quote from: Chief on November 12, 2020, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Dear Throughthelaces
Cumann na nGaedheal (as spelt at the time) broke away from SF to set up the new State. They joined others to form FG in the 1930s.
FF broke away from SF 1926 or 27 so they could take their seats in the Free State Dáil.
The Provos always claimed they were the true continuation of the 1919 to 21 men and their Army Council was the only legitimate successor to the 2nd Dáil.
As for deflection.... funny how the article about Varadkar appeared something like 2 years after the event......
Around the same time as SF were having a bit of Internal bother 😃
Total coincidence of course....

The current 26 County State, Cumann na nGaedheal (and therefore it's successors Fine Gael), & Fianna Fáil also (and continue to) draw their legitimacy from those fighters and Second Dail.

What we have now in FF, FG and SF is essentially three branches of the old War of Independence SF. 

Each has come to recognise the current 26 state at different speeds and via different paths.

FF, FG and current SF, (and therefore a fair ol chunk of political parties of the island), all share equal historical political links to those War of Independence war crimes.

Three things that are strange though

1) Without a hint of shame or irony, successive 26 county FF/FG governments didn't care to take action about the war crimes they could do something about in their own jurisdiction,  but care deeply about seeing action taken about the same type of war crimes committed outside their jurisdiction.
2) Without a hint of shame or irony perpetrators of those crimes were good enough to be in FF/FG government.
3) SF supporters point to this as a way of trying to shut down debate about their own war crimes (in the form of the Disappeared) during the Troubles without a hint of shame or irony.

In short both sides are current playing gesture politics about War Crimes. Which is deplorable.

The GP contract is small beer in comparison.

When it comes to the Disappeared, Sinn Féin at least used their influence to help the search for remains. Most remains have been found at this stage (hopefully all will be). There was estimated to be at least ten times more people Disappeared throughout the few years of the Tan War than were Disappeared during the Troubles. FF/FG never once tried to use their influence to find one of the bodies. Can anyone even remember them ever acknowledging these remains even exist?

Disgusting post. Used their influence! Wile good of them.

Did they not use their influence?Whats disgusting about me saying they did so? The independent body repsobsible for finding the remains is in record acknowledging SFs efforts. Are they disgusting for doing so too?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: johnnycool on November 12, 2020, 08:22:52 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 01:16:06 PM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 11, 2020, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 09:16:11 AM
Did ye Shinners really think that the Government TDs and others would support this motion and bring down the Government?
92 -65 was the vote.
Heather Humphreys or the other 91 may be pathetic but they never abducted a young lad who wouldn't lick some warlord's boots, never took him off to some secret location, never put a bullet in his head, never buried him in unconsecrated ground without access to priest, never left his family for 45 years not finding their loved ones remains.
They never murdered Messrs Oliver, Stack or Quinn.

Your version of our history is seriously distorted.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20225871.html
The Provos claimed continuity from those fighters in 1920/21.
FG and FF broke away from the IRA and SF of those days. ;)

Thought I saw a recent pic of Leo standing below a pic of Mick Collins recently.......

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ThroughTheLaces on November 12, 2020, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 11:01:54 PM
Connolly House has the bots on overtime😃

So several people call you out on your hypocrisy, you avoid questions being put to you and your response is 'bots'. Cool.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 09:21:53 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 12, 2020, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 11:01:54 PM
Connolly House has the bots on overtime😃

So several people call you out on your hypocrisy, you avoid questions being put to you and your response is 'bots'. Cool.

As was predicted, he neither has the smarts or balls to stand behind what he said, that is his character.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:25:13 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 08:10:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:56:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 07:17:43 AM
Quote from: Chief on November 12, 2020, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Dear Throughthelaces
Cumann na nGaedheal (as spelt at the time) broke away from SF to set up the new State. They joined others to form FG in the 1930s.
FF broke away from SF 1926 or 27 so they could take their seats in the Free State Dáil.
The Provos always claimed they were the true continuation of the 1919 to 21 men and their Army Council was the only legitimate successor to the 2nd Dáil.
As for deflection.... funny how the article about Varadkar appeared something like 2 years after the event......
Around the same time as SF were having a bit of Internal bother 😃
Total coincidence of course....

The current 26 County State, Cumann na nGaedheal (and therefore it's successors Fine Gael), & Fianna Fáil also (and continue to) draw their legitimacy from those fighters and Second Dail.

What we have now in FF, FG and SF is essentially three branches of the old War of Independence SF. 

Each has come to recognise the current 26 state at different speeds and via different paths.

FF, FG and current SF, (and therefore a fair ol chunk of political parties of the island), all share equal historical political links to those War of Independence war crimes.

Three things that are strange though

1) Without a hint of shame or irony, successive 26 county FF/FG governments didn't care to take action about the war crimes they could do something about in their own jurisdiction,  but care deeply about seeing action taken about the same type of war crimes committed outside their jurisdiction.
2) Without a hint of shame or irony perpetrators of those crimes were good enough to be in FF/FG government.
3) SF supporters point to this as a way of trying to shut down debate about their own war crimes (in the form of the Disappeared) during the Troubles without a hint of shame or irony.

In short both sides are current playing gesture politics about War Crimes. Which is deplorable.

The GP contract is small beer in comparison.

When it comes to the Disappeared, Sinn Féin at least used their influence to help the search for remains. Most remains have been found at this stage (hopefully all will be). There was estimated to be at least ten times more people Disappeared throughout the few years of the Tan War than were Disappeared during the Troubles. FF/FG never once tried to use their influence to find one of the bodies. Can anyone even remember them ever acknowledging these remains even exist?

Disgusting post. Used their influence! Wile good of them.

Did they not use their influence?Whats disgusting about me saying they did so? The independent body repsobsible for finding the remains is in record acknowledging SFs efforts. Are they disgusting for doing so too?

You know that in most cases they always knew where those bodies were as they were centrally involved. We all know that. It isn't really disputed..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 09:26:48 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:25:13 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 08:10:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:56:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 07:17:43 AM
Quote from: Chief on November 12, 2020, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Dear Throughthelaces
Cumann na nGaedheal (as spelt at the time) broke away from SF to set up the new State. They joined others to form FG in the 1930s.
FF broke away from SF 1926 or 27 so they could take their seats in the Free State Dáil.
The Provos always claimed they were the true continuation of the 1919 to 21 men and their Army Council was the only legitimate successor to the 2nd Dáil.
As for deflection.... funny how the article about Varadkar appeared something like 2 years after the event......
Around the same time as SF were having a bit of Internal bother 😃
Total coincidence of course....

The current 26 County State, Cumann na nGaedheal (and therefore it's successors Fine Gael), & Fianna Fáil also (and continue to) draw their legitimacy from those fighters and Second Dail.

What we have now in FF, FG and SF is essentially three branches of the old War of Independence SF. 

Each has come to recognise the current 26 state at different speeds and via different paths.

FF, FG and current SF, (and therefore a fair ol chunk of political parties of the island), all share equal historical political links to those War of Independence war crimes.

Three things that are strange though

1) Without a hint of shame or irony, successive 26 county FF/FG governments didn't care to take action about the war crimes they could do something about in their own jurisdiction,  but care deeply about seeing action taken about the same type of war crimes committed outside their jurisdiction.
2) Without a hint of shame or irony perpetrators of those crimes were good enough to be in FF/FG government.
3) SF supporters point to this as a way of trying to shut down debate about their own war crimes (in the form of the Disappeared) during the Troubles without a hint of shame or irony.

In short both sides are current playing gesture politics about War Crimes. Which is deplorable.

The GP contract is small beer in comparison.

When it comes to the Disappeared, Sinn Féin at least used their influence to help the search for remains. Most remains have been found at this stage (hopefully all will be). There was estimated to be at least ten times more people Disappeared throughout the few years of the Tan War than were Disappeared during the Troubles. FF/FG never once tried to use their influence to find one of the bodies. Can anyone even remember them ever acknowledging these remains even exist?

Disgusting post. Used their influence! Wile good of them.

Did they not use their influence?Whats disgusting about me saying they did so? The independent body repsobsible for finding the remains is in record acknowledging SFs efforts. Are they disgusting for doing so too?

You know that in most cases they always knew where those bodies were as they were centrally involved. We all know that. It isn't really disputed..

That's speculative.

What isn't speculative is that FF/FG never did anything to atone for all the violence and atrocities committed by their bloodline in the aftermath of the War of Independence and Civil War.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 09:35:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:25:13 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 08:10:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:56:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 07:17:43 AM
Quote from: Chief on November 12, 2020, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Dear Throughthelaces
Cumann na nGaedheal (as spelt at the time) broke away from SF to set up the new State. They joined others to form FG in the 1930s.
FF broke away from SF 1926 or 27 so they could take their seats in the Free State Dáil.
The Provos always claimed they were the true continuation of the 1919 to 21 men and their Army Council was the only legitimate successor to the 2nd Dáil.
As for deflection.... funny how the article about Varadkar appeared something like 2 years after the event......
Around the same time as SF were having a bit of Internal bother 😃
Total coincidence of course....

The current 26 County State, Cumann na nGaedheal (and therefore it's successors Fine Gael), & Fianna Fáil also (and continue to) draw their legitimacy from those fighters and Second Dail.

What we have now in FF, FG and SF is essentially three branches of the old War of Independence SF. 

Each has come to recognise the current 26 state at different speeds and via different paths.

FF, FG and current SF, (and therefore a fair ol chunk of political parties of the island), all share equal historical political links to those War of Independence war crimes.

Three things that are strange though

1) Without a hint of shame or irony, successive 26 county FF/FG governments didn't care to take action about the war crimes they could do something about in their own jurisdiction,  but care deeply about seeing action taken about the same type of war crimes committed outside their jurisdiction.
2) Without a hint of shame or irony perpetrators of those crimes were good enough to be in FF/FG government.
3) SF supporters point to this as a way of trying to shut down debate about their own war crimes (in the form of the Disappeared) during the Troubles without a hint of shame or irony.

In short both sides are current playing gesture politics about War Crimes. Which is deplorable.

The GP contract is small beer in comparison.

When it comes to the Disappeared, Sinn Féin at least used their influence to help the search for remains. Most remains have been found at this stage (hopefully all will be). There was estimated to be at least ten times more people Disappeared throughout the few years of the Tan War than were Disappeared during the Troubles. FF/FG never once tried to use their influence to find one of the bodies. Can anyone even remember them ever acknowledging these remains even exist?

Disgusting post. Used their influence! Wile good of them.

Did they not use their influence?Whats disgusting about me saying they did so? The independent body repsobsible for finding the remains is in record acknowledging SFs efforts. Are they disgusting for doing so too?

You know that in most cases they always knew where those bodies were as they were centrally involved. We all know that. It isn't really disputed..

If you buried a body on, for instance a vast bog or beach, could you find the exact spot a week later? Probably not. Could you find it if you buried the remains at night, 30 odd years ago? I'd say the fact that most of the remains have been found is fairly strong evidence that those involved have been co-operative in the searches. The Commission for finding the remains seems to think so. But what do they know, eh? They should have consulted you first  ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on November 12, 2020, 09:47:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:25:13 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 08:10:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:56:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 07:17:43 AM
Quote from: Chief on November 12, 2020, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Dear Throughthelaces
Cumann na nGaedheal (as spelt at the time) broke away from SF to set up the new State. They joined others to form FG in the 1930s.
FF broke away from SF 1926 or 27 so they could take their seats in the Free State Dáil.
The Provos always claimed they were the true continuation of the 1919 to 21 men and their Army Council was the only legitimate successor to the 2nd Dáil.
As for deflection.... funny how the article about Varadkar appeared something like 2 years after the event......
Around the same time as SF were having a bit of Internal bother 😃
Total coincidence of course....

The current 26 County State, Cumann na nGaedheal (and therefore it's successors Fine Gael), & Fianna Fáil also (and continue to) draw their legitimacy from those fighters and Second Dail.

What we have now in FF, FG and SF is essentially three branches of the old War of Independence SF. 

Each has come to recognise the current 26 state at different speeds and via different paths.

FF, FG and current SF, (and therefore a fair ol chunk of political parties of the island), all share equal historical political links to those War of Independence war crimes.

Three things that are strange though

1) Without a hint of shame or irony, successive 26 county FF/FG governments didn't care to take action about the war crimes they could do something about in their own jurisdiction,  but care deeply about seeing action taken about the same type of war crimes committed outside their jurisdiction.
2) Without a hint of shame or irony perpetrators of those crimes were good enough to be in FF/FG government.
3) SF supporters point to this as a way of trying to shut down debate about their own war crimes (in the form of the Disappeared) during the Troubles without a hint of shame or irony.

In short both sides are current playing gesture politics about War Crimes. Which is deplorable.

The GP contract is small beer in comparison.

When it comes to the Disappeared, Sinn Féin at least used their influence to help the search for remains. Most remains have been found at this stage (hopefully all will be). There was estimated to be at least ten times more people Disappeared throughout the few years of the Tan War than were Disappeared during the Troubles. FF/FG never once tried to use their influence to find one of the bodies. Can anyone even remember them ever acknowledging these remains even exist?

Disgusting post. Used their influence! Wile good of them.

Did they not use their influence?Whats disgusting about me saying they did so? The independent body repsobsible for finding the remains is in record acknowledging SFs efforts. Are they disgusting for doing so too?

You know that in most cases they always knew where those bodies were as they were centrally involved. We all know that. It isn't really disputed..

So you were happy to vote for Sinn Fein in the past and all this stuff you are crying about then was just as relevant (or irrelevant depending on your persuasion) back then, yet when they take a stance on abortion that you don't like everything else is suddenly against your moral compass. I have to say I have more respect for blueshirts than the like of you. At least they make no attempt to hide what they are, unlike yourself, an utter hypocrite.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:48:32 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 09:26:48 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:25:13 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 08:10:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:56:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 07:17:43 AM
Quote from: Chief on November 12, 2020, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Dear Throughthelaces
Cumann na nGaedheal (as spelt at the time) broke away from SF to set up the new State. They joined others to form FG in the 1930s.
FF broke away from SF 1926 or 27 so they could take their seats in the Free State Dáil.
The Provos always claimed they were the true continuation of the 1919 to 21 men and their Army Council was the only legitimate successor to the 2nd Dáil.
As for deflection.... funny how the article about Varadkar appeared something like 2 years after the event......
Around the same time as SF were having a bit of Internal bother 😃
Total coincidence of course....

The current 26 County State, Cumann na nGaedheal (and therefore it's successors Fine Gael), & Fianna Fáil also (and continue to) draw their legitimacy from those fighters and Second Dail.

What we have now in FF, FG and SF is essentially three branches of the old War of Independence SF. 

Each has come to recognise the current 26 state at different speeds and via different paths.

FF, FG and current SF, (and therefore a fair ol chunk of political parties of the island), all share equal historical political links to those War of Independence war crimes.

Three things that are strange though

1) Without a hint of shame or irony, successive 26 county FF/FG governments didn't care to take action about the war crimes they could do something about in their own jurisdiction,  but care deeply about seeing action taken about the same type of war crimes committed outside their jurisdiction.
2) Without a hint of shame or irony perpetrators of those crimes were good enough to be in FF/FG government.
3) SF supporters point to this as a way of trying to shut down debate about their own war crimes (in the form of the Disappeared) during the Troubles without a hint of shame or irony.

In short both sides are current playing gesture politics about War Crimes. Which is deplorable.

The GP contract is small beer in comparison.

When it comes to the Disappeared, Sinn Féin at least used their influence to help the search for remains. Most remains have been found at this stage (hopefully all will be). There was estimated to be at least ten times more people Disappeared throughout the few years of the Tan War than were Disappeared during the Troubles. FF/FG never once tried to use their influence to find one of the bodies. Can anyone even remember them ever acknowledging these remains even exist?

Disgusting post. Used their influence! Wile good of them.

Did they not use their influence?Whats disgusting about me saying they did so? The independent body repsobsible for finding the remains is in record acknowledging SFs efforts. Are they disgusting for doing so too?

You know that in most cases they always knew where those bodies were as they were centrally involved. We all know that. It isn't really disputed..

That's speculative.

What isn't speculative is that FF/FG never did anything to atone for all the violence and atrocities committed by their bloodline in the aftermath of the War of Independence and Civil War.

No. GA knew everything about McConville. It is hard to look back at and take that in now, but its not really doubted, it is only really doubted by the completely brainwashed
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:52:26 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 09:35:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:25:13 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 08:10:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:56:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 07:17:43 AM
Quote from: Chief on November 12, 2020, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Dear Throughthelaces
Cumann na nGaedheal (as spelt at the time) broke away from SF to set up the new State. They joined others to form FG in the 1930s.
FF broke away from SF 1926 or 27 so they could take their seats in the Free State Dáil.
The Provos always claimed they were the true continuation of the 1919 to 21 men and their Army Council was the only legitimate successor to the 2nd Dáil.
As for deflection.... funny how the article about Varadkar appeared something like 2 years after the event......
Around the same time as SF were having a bit of Internal bother 😃
Total coincidence of course....

The current 26 County State, Cumann na nGaedheal (and therefore it's successors Fine Gael), & Fianna Fáil also (and continue to) draw their legitimacy from those fighters and Second Dail.

What we have now in FF, FG and SF is essentially three branches of the old War of Independence SF. 

Each has come to recognise the current 26 state at different speeds and via different paths.

FF, FG and current SF, (and therefore a fair ol chunk of political parties of the island), all share equal historical political links to those War of Independence war crimes.

Three things that are strange though

1) Without a hint of shame or irony, successive 26 county FF/FG governments didn't care to take action about the war crimes they could do something about in their own jurisdiction,  but care deeply about seeing action taken about the same type of war crimes committed outside their jurisdiction.
2) Without a hint of shame or irony perpetrators of those crimes were good enough to be in FF/FG government.
3) SF supporters point to this as a way of trying to shut down debate about their own war crimes (in the form of the Disappeared) during the Troubles without a hint of shame or irony.

In short both sides are current playing gesture politics about War Crimes. Which is deplorable.

The GP contract is small beer in comparison.

When it comes to the Disappeared, Sinn Féin at least used their influence to help the search for remains. Most remains have been found at this stage (hopefully all will be). There was estimated to be at least ten times more people Disappeared throughout the few years of the Tan War than were Disappeared during the Troubles. FF/FG never once tried to use their influence to find one of the bodies. Can anyone even remember them ever acknowledging these remains even exist?

Disgusting post. Used their influence! Wile good of them.

Did they not use their influence?Whats disgusting about me saying they did so? The independent body repsobsible for finding the remains is in record acknowledging SFs efforts. Are they disgusting for doing so too?

You know that in most cases they always knew where those bodies were as they were centrally involved. We all know that. It isn't really disputed..

If you buried a body on, for instance a vast bog or beach, could you find the exact spot a week later? Probably not. Could you find it if you buried the remains at night, 30 odd years ago? I'd say the fact that most of the remains have been found is fairly strong evidence that those involved have been co-operative in the searches. The Commission for finding the remains seems to think so. But what do they know, eh? They should have consulted you first  ::)

Ridiculous. Can you read that back please. We are thanking someone for finding that unmarked grave they buried someone in.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 09:53:03 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:48:32 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 09:26:48 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:25:13 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 08:10:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:56:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 07:17:43 AM
Quote from: Chief on November 12, 2020, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Dear Throughthelaces
Cumann na nGaedheal (as spelt at the time) broke away from SF to set up the new State. They joined others to form FG in the 1930s.
FF broke away from SF 1926 or 27 so they could take their seats in the Free State Dáil.
The Provos always claimed they were the true continuation of the 1919 to 21 men and their Army Council was the only legitimate successor to the 2nd Dáil.
As for deflection.... funny how the article about Varadkar appeared something like 2 years after the event......
Around the same time as SF were having a bit of Internal bother 😃
Total coincidence of course....

The current 26 County State, Cumann na nGaedheal (and therefore it's successors Fine Gael), & Fianna Fáil also (and continue to) draw their legitimacy from those fighters and Second Dail.

What we have now in FF, FG and SF is essentially three branches of the old War of Independence SF. 

Each has come to recognise the current 26 state at different speeds and via different paths.

FF, FG and current SF, (and therefore a fair ol chunk of political parties of the island), all share equal historical political links to those War of Independence war crimes.

Three things that are strange though

1) Without a hint of shame or irony, successive 26 county FF/FG governments didn't care to take action about the war crimes they could do something about in their own jurisdiction,  but care deeply about seeing action taken about the same type of war crimes committed outside their jurisdiction.
2) Without a hint of shame or irony perpetrators of those crimes were good enough to be in FF/FG government.
3) SF supporters point to this as a way of trying to shut down debate about their own war crimes (in the form of the Disappeared) during the Troubles without a hint of shame or irony.

In short both sides are current playing gesture politics about War Crimes. Which is deplorable.

The GP contract is small beer in comparison.

When it comes to the Disappeared, Sinn Féin at least used their influence to help the search for remains. Most remains have been found at this stage (hopefully all will be). There was estimated to be at least ten times more people Disappeared throughout the few years of the Tan War than were Disappeared during the Troubles. FF/FG never once tried to use their influence to find one of the bodies. Can anyone even remember them ever acknowledging these remains even exist?

Disgusting post. Used their influence! Wile good of them.

Did they not use their influence?Whats disgusting about me saying they did so? The independent body repsobsible for finding the remains is in record acknowledging SFs efforts. Are they disgusting for doing so too?

You know that in most cases they always knew where those bodies were as they were centrally involved. We all know that. It isn't really disputed..

That's speculative.

What isn't speculative is that FF/FG never did anything to atone for all the violence and atrocities committed by their bloodline in the aftermath of the War of Independence and Civil War.

No. GA knew everything about McConville. It is hard to look back at and take that in now, but its not really doubted, it is only really doubted by the completely brainwashed

Argues something isn't speculative by offering another speculative statement as evidence. Fantastic.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 09:54:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:52:26 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 09:35:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:25:13 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 08:10:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:56:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 07:17:43 AM
Quote from: Chief on November 12, 2020, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Dear Throughthelaces
Cumann na nGaedheal (as spelt at the time) broke away from SF to set up the new State. They joined others to form FG in the 1930s.
FF broke away from SF 1926 or 27 so they could take their seats in the Free State Dáil.
The Provos always claimed they were the true continuation of the 1919 to 21 men and their Army Council was the only legitimate successor to the 2nd Dáil.
As for deflection.... funny how the article about Varadkar appeared something like 2 years after the event......
Around the same time as SF were having a bit of Internal bother 😃
Total coincidence of course....

The current 26 County State, Cumann na nGaedheal (and therefore it's successors Fine Gael), & Fianna Fáil also (and continue to) draw their legitimacy from those fighters and Second Dail.

What we have now in FF, FG and SF is essentially three branches of the old War of Independence SF. 

Each has come to recognise the current 26 state at different speeds and via different paths.

FF, FG and current SF, (and therefore a fair ol chunk of political parties of the island), all share equal historical political links to those War of Independence war crimes.

Three things that are strange though

1) Without a hint of shame or irony, successive 26 county FF/FG governments didn't care to take action about the war crimes they could do something about in their own jurisdiction,  but care deeply about seeing action taken about the same type of war crimes committed outside their jurisdiction.
2) Without a hint of shame or irony perpetrators of those crimes were good enough to be in FF/FG government.
3) SF supporters point to this as a way of trying to shut down debate about their own war crimes (in the form of the Disappeared) during the Troubles without a hint of shame or irony.

In short both sides are current playing gesture politics about War Crimes. Which is deplorable.

The GP contract is small beer in comparison.

When it comes to the Disappeared, Sinn Féin at least used their influence to help the search for remains. Most remains have been found at this stage (hopefully all will be). There was estimated to be at least ten times more people Disappeared throughout the few years of the Tan War than were Disappeared during the Troubles. FF/FG never once tried to use their influence to find one of the bodies. Can anyone even remember them ever acknowledging these remains even exist?

Disgusting post. Used their influence! Wile good of them.

Did they not use their influence?Whats disgusting about me saying they did so? The independent body repsobsible for finding the remains is in record acknowledging SFs efforts. Are they disgusting for doing so too?

You know that in most cases they always knew where those bodies were as they were centrally involved. We all know that. It isn't really disputed..

If you buried a body on, for instance a vast bog or beach, could you find the exact spot a week later? Probably not. Could you find it if you buried the remains at night, 30 odd years ago? I'd say the fact that most of the remains have been found is fairly strong evidence that those involved have been co-operative in the searches. The Commission for finding the remains seems to think so. But what do they know, eh? They should have consulted you first  ::)

Ridiculous. Can you read that back please. We are thanking someone for finding that unmarked grave they buried someone in.

Tell you what, you rread it back, and then quote where I thanked anyone. Good man.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:55:40 AM
Quote from: Itchy on November 12, 2020, 09:47:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:25:13 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 08:10:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 07:56:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 07:17:43 AM
Quote from: Chief on November 12, 2020, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Dear Throughthelaces
Cumann na nGaedheal (as spelt at the time) broke away from SF to set up the new State. They joined others to form FG in the 1930s.
FF broke away from SF 1926 or 27 so they could take their seats in the Free State Dáil.
The Provos always claimed they were the true continuation of the 1919 to 21 men and their Army Council was the only legitimate successor to the 2nd Dáil.
As for deflection.... funny how the article about Varadkar appeared something like 2 years after the event......
Around the same time as SF were having a bit of Internal bother 😃
Total coincidence of course....

The current 26 County State, Cumann na nGaedheal (and therefore it's successors Fine Gael), & Fianna Fáil also (and continue to) draw their legitimacy from those fighters and Second Dail.

What we have now in FF, FG and SF is essentially three branches of the old War of Independence SF. 

Each has come to recognise the current 26 state at different speeds and via different paths.

FF, FG and current SF, (and therefore a fair ol chunk of political parties of the island), all share equal historical political links to those War of Independence war crimes.

Three things that are strange though

1) Without a hint of shame or irony, successive 26 county FF/FG governments didn't care to take action about the war crimes they could do something about in their own jurisdiction,  but care deeply about seeing action taken about the same type of war crimes committed outside their jurisdiction.
2) Without a hint of shame or irony perpetrators of those crimes were good enough to be in FF/FG government.
3) SF supporters point to this as a way of trying to shut down debate about their own war crimes (in the form of the Disappeared) during the Troubles without a hint of shame or irony.

In short both sides are current playing gesture politics about War Crimes. Which is deplorable.

The GP contract is small beer in comparison.

When it comes to the Disappeared, Sinn Féin at least used their influence to help the search for remains. Most remains have been found at this stage (hopefully all will be). There was estimated to be at least ten times more people Disappeared throughout the few years of the Tan War than were Disappeared during the Troubles. FF/FG never once tried to use their influence to find one of the bodies. Can anyone even remember them ever acknowledging these remains even exist?

Disgusting post. Used their influence! Wile good of them.

Did they not use their influence?Whats disgusting about me saying they did so? The independent body repsobsible for finding the remains is in record acknowledging SFs efforts. Are they disgusting for doing so too?

You know that in most cases they always knew where those bodies were as they were centrally involved. We all know that. It isn't really disputed..

So you were happy to vote for Sinn Fein in the past and all this stuff you are crying about then was just as relevant (or irrelevant depending on your persuasion) back then, yet when they take a stance on abortion that you don't like everything else is suddenly against your moral compass. I have to say I have more respect for blueshirts than the like of you. At least they make no attempt to hide what they are, unlike yourself, an utter hypocrite.

No I never agreed with that and in fact Patsy Gillespie whose family I know well was the start of the turn for me down a long road moving away from SF. It was a legitimate war which I backed to the hilt mostly, but this was disgusting especially when we later find out that half the Derry City brigade were touts. Who did Paddy Flood take a hit for?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 09:57:47 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:48:32 AM


No. GA knew everything about McConville. It is hard to look back at and take that in now, but its not really doubted, it is only really doubted by the completely brainwashed

How do you know GA knew everything about McConville?

Seems to be you're making massive assumptions and trying to pass them off as irrefutable facts.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:59:47 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 09:57:47 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 09:48:32 AM


No. GA knew everything about McConville. It is hard to look back at and take that in now, but its not really doubted, it is only really doubted by the completely brainwashed

How do you know GA knew everything about McConville?

Seems to be you're making massive assumptions and trying to pass them off as irrefutable facts.

Time will tell
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 12, 2020, 10:09:01 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 12, 2020, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 11:01:54 PM
Connolly House has the bots on overtime😃

So several people call you out on your hypocrisy, you avoid questions being put to you and your response is 'bots'. Cool.
Franko put some questions, I answered them.
I'll leave Fear Bun to deal with the Connolly House orthodox crew.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on November 12, 2020, 10:19:16 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2020, 10:09:01 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 12, 2020, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 11:01:54 PM
Connolly House has the bots on overtime😃

So several people call you out on your hypocrisy, you avoid questions being put to you and your response is 'bots'. Cool.
Franko put some questions, I answered them.
I'll leave Fear Bun to deal with the Connolly House orthodox crew.

Glad you mentioned that.

In one of your answers you said that you genuinely cared about the fate of Columba McVeigh.

Just did a quick search there.

You have been on this forum for 14 odd years.  You never mentioned his name until yesterday and it was only as part of a political broadside at SF.

Interestingly, you also mentioned Jean McConville's name twice.  Both times to politically attack SF.

So, to be clear, your answer was bullshit and you are a liar.

And so is Heather Humphreys, if she pretends to care.

I will give you this, you have done well to deflect from the actual issue here.

But it is at the expense of your own 'reputation', such as that can be on an anonymous forum.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 12:23:26 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 12, 2020, 10:19:16 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2020, 10:09:01 AM
Quote from: ThroughTheLaces on November 12, 2020, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 11:01:54 PM
Connolly House has the bots on overtime😃

So several people call you out on your hypocrisy, you avoid questions being put to you and your response is 'bots'. Cool.
Franko put some questions, I answered them.
I'll leave Fear Bun to deal with the Connolly House orthodox crew.

Glad you mentioned that.

In one of your answers you said that you genuinely cared about the fate of Columba McVeigh.

Just did a quick search there.

You have been on this forum for 14 odd years.  You never mentioned his name until yesterday and it was only as part of a political broadside at SF.

Interestingly, you also mentioned Jean McConville's name twice.  Both times to politically attack SF.

So, to be clear, your answer was bullshit and you are a liar.

And so is Heather Humphreys, if she pretends to care.

I will give you this, you have done well to deflect from the actual issue here.

But it is at the expense of your own 'reputation', such as that can be on an anonymous forum.

Good job opening for Rossfan here.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-research-candidates-asked-how-to-attack-sinn-fein-39736985.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 03:12:41 PM
You literally could not make this up.

https://twitter.com/paulmurphy_TD/status/1326900424851529733

The government want to appoint an ex NAGP lobbyist to the board who are due to investigate Varadkar for leaking a document to the president of the NAGP.

This is outrageous but it tells you the type of corruption FF/FG are up to their necks in.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 12, 2020, 05:02:34 PM
Anyone that doesn't care about Columba McVeigh or what was done to him is a person devoid of humanity or decency.
Or a brainwashed Provo.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on November 12, 2020, 05:05:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2020, 05:02:34 PM
Anyone that doesn't care about Columba McVeigh or what was done to him is a person devoid of humanity or decency.
Or a brainwashed Provo.

Take a look in a mirror lad, that's you. Not a shite do you care.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: ThroughTheLaces on November 12, 2020, 05:22:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2020, 05:02:34 PM
Anyone that doesn't care about Columba McVeigh or what was done to him is a person devoid of humanity or decency.
Or a brainwashed Provo.

Again, back to my point that for some reason you have such compassion and sympathy for said victim, yet the disappeared in Cork seem to make you...well, a person devoid or humanity or decency.

They were different times back then though. And you can't remember it. So no harm done.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on November 12, 2020, 05:35:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2020, 05:02:34 PM
Anyone that doesn't care about Columba McVeigh or what was done to him is a person devoid of humanity or decency.
Or a brainwashed Provo.
Anyone who pretends care is worse. Usually it's brainwashed Free Staters.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 05:43:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2020, 05:02:34 PM
Anyone that doesn't care about Columba McVeigh or what was done to him is a person devoid of humanity or decency.
Or a brainwashed Provo.

Why don't you care about Maria Lindsay?

You are devoid of decency or humanity and much worse than that you like to cynically use victims, their families and their hurt to score points.

Now that is real lowlife stuff.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 05:43:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 03:12:41 PM
You literally could not make this up.

https://twitter.com/paulmurphy_TD/status/1326900424851529733

The government want to appoint an ex NAGP lobbyist to the board who are due to investigate Varadkar for leaking a document to the president of the NAGP.

This is outrageous but it tells you the type of corruption FF/FG are up to their necks in.

A bit of deflection from the Roscommon bigot so we will put the main issue back at the forefront.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on November 12, 2020, 06:44:27 PM
Pavlov's dogs  ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2020, 09:02:48 PM
In bits....
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 13, 2020, 11:54:44 AM
FG absolutely up to their necks in cronyism.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/opposition-calls-for-mcentee-statement-on-woulfe-nomination-to-supreme-court-1.4408402

The judge himself was an active FG party member before his appointment and served as secretary of FG Dublin Bay North.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 23, 2020, 02:53:00 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 13, 2020, 11:54:44 AM
FG absolutely up to their necks in cronyism.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/opposition-calls-for-mcentee-statement-on-woulfe-nomination-to-supreme-court-1.4408402

The judge himself was an active FG party member before his appointment and served as secretary of FG Dublin Bay North.

A few weeks old now but the way the gov handled this seems to have backfired. It's been scandal after scandal after scandal for this current gov.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on November 25, 2020, 01:24:08 PM
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/1/1/11b182cf991b4d899778e43e180f52c9c2d4c88b_2_999x750.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 12:56:02 PM
More scandal for Varadkar and Harris today.

Seems like they told a lot of porkies over the leaked document.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on January 20, 2021, 01:07:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 12:56:02 PM
More scandal for Varadkar and Harris today.

Seems like they told a lot of porkies over the leaked document.

Indeed. New information exposed by a FOI request by Pearse Doherty. Tried to read up about the story on RTÉ. Silly me.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 01:13:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 20, 2021, 01:07:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 12:56:02 PM
More scandal for Varadkar and Harris today.

Seems like they told a lot of porkies over the leaked document.

Indeed. New information exposed by a FOI request by Pearse Doherty. Tried to read up about the story on RTÉ. Silly me.

That should be unbelievable but it's par the course for RTE.

Varadkar should be facing criminal charges on this.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 11:14:59 AM
So the former Taoiseach and leader of FG is now under a criminal investigation.

Surely he should be stepping aside until this is concluded.

The Free State media are an absolute disgrace on this.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: marty34 on February 15, 2021, 11:24:01 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 11:14:59 AM
So the former Taoiseach and leader of FG is now under a criminal investigation.

Surely he should be stepping aside until this is concluded.

The Free State media are an absolute disgrace on this.

Hush hush Angelo - it'll be swept under the carpet by RTÉ and Fianna Gael's media buddies.

I mean, they employ an ex-Sun man as their PR guru.  What do you expect from these cowboys?

Even the recent Sean Graham bookies' story was way way down their website.  If I wasn't cynical, you could almost say it was hidden!!

And then Tubridy's recent love in with Harris.  Disgraceful.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 12:05:51 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 15, 2021, 11:24:01 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 11:14:59 AM
So the former Taoiseach and leader of FG is now under a criminal investigation.

Surely he should be stepping aside until this is concluded.

The Free State media are an absolute disgrace on this.

Hush hush Angelo - it'll be swept under the carpet by RTÉ and Fianna Gael's media buddies.

I mean, they employ an ex-Sun man as their PR guru.  What do you expect from these cowboys?

Even the recent Sean Graham bookies' story was way way down their website.  If I wasn't cynical, you could almost say it was hidden!!

And then Tubridy's recent love in with Harris.  Disgraceful.

Tubridy really should have came clean the other night and admitted his grandfather was part of an organisation who murdered hundreds of RIC officers.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: johnnycool on February 15, 2021, 12:09:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 12:05:51 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 15, 2021, 11:24:01 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 11:14:59 AM
So the former Taoiseach and leader of FG is now under a criminal investigation.

Surely he should be stepping aside until this is concluded.

The Free State media are an absolute disgrace on this.

Hush hush Angelo - it'll be swept under the carpet by RTÉ and Fianna Gael's media buddies.

I mean, they employ an ex-Sun man as their PR guru.  What do you expect from these cowboys?

Even the recent Sean Graham bookies' story was way way down their website.  If I wasn't cynical, you could almost say it was hidden!!

And then Tubridy's recent love in with Harris.  Disgraceful.

Tubridy really should have came clean the other night and admitted his grandfather was part of an organisation who murdered hundreds of RIC officers.

He took exception to Gerry Adams bringing that up a few years ago...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: five points on February 15, 2021, 12:27:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 11:14:59 AM
So the former Taoiseach and leader of FG is now under a criminal investigation.

Surely he should be stepping aside until this is concluded.

The Free State media are an absolute disgrace on this.

Agreed. He'd be a goner if it was anyone else.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: johnnycool on August 04, 2021, 02:33:27 PM
What's the Infatuation with Varadkar and this one Zappone?

Controversy seems to follow her around like a bad smell yet she gets Government appointments thrown at her.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on August 04, 2021, 04:04:40 PM
She is a homosexual, obviously she can do no wrong.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on August 04, 2021, 04:15:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 04, 2021, 04:04:40 PM
She is a homosexual, obviously she can do no wrong.

What relevance does that have to this issue?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on August 04, 2021, 04:18:23 PM
The question was why she was so popular with the FG top brass and the answer is that she supports the trendy causes of interest to them
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on August 04, 2021, 04:25:16 PM
So being gay is just "a trendy cause" as opposed to a biological orientation?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on August 04, 2021, 04:31:02 PM
Being gay is an orientation, campaigning for gays is a trendy cause.

It seems she is not taking the job, so she has rescued the situation
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: hoynevalley on September 05, 2021, 08:46:27 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-faces-criticism-after-being-pictured-at-uk-music-festival-on-same-weekend-electric-picnic-was-cancelled-40818818.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on September 06, 2021, 09:45:04 AM
Quote from: hoynevalley on September 05, 2021, 08:46:27 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-faces-criticism-after-being-pictured-at-uk-music-festival-on-same-weekend-electric-picnic-was-cancelled-40818818.html

Youd wonder has the man any cop on at all or just zero emotional intelligence? Its just so idiotic from him it beggars belief.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Cobra on September 06, 2021, 04:40:44 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 06, 2021, 09:45:04 AM
Quote from: hoynevalley on September 05, 2021, 08:46:27 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-faces-criticism-after-being-pictured-at-uk-music-festival-on-same-weekend-electric-picnic-was-cancelled-40818818.html

Youd wonder has the man any cop on at all or just zero emotional intelligence? Its just so idiotic from him it beggars belief.

Oonagh Murphy putting her twitter account on "private" afterwards is bit hypocritical as well. She couldn't stick the spotlight long herself.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: clarshack on September 06, 2021, 04:50:04 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 06, 2021, 09:45:04 AM
Quote from: hoynevalley on September 05, 2021, 08:46:27 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-faces-criticism-after-being-pictured-at-uk-music-festival-on-same-weekend-electric-picnic-was-cancelled-40818818.html

Youd wonder has the man any cop on at all or just zero emotional intelligence? Its just so idiotic from him it beggars belief.

It's more likely that he thinks the plebs have zero intelligence, and that's why he treats them with contempt.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: imtommygunn on September 06, 2021, 04:56:36 PM
He has similarities to Boris. Not one f**k could he give.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on September 06, 2021, 04:57:33 PM
Quote from: clarshack on September 06, 2021, 04:50:04 PM
It's more likely that he thinks the plebs have zero intelligence, and that's why he treats them with contempt.

this strategy has worked for Sinn Féin, so he probably thinks it will for him.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: The Wedger on September 06, 2021, 06:25:52 PM
Quote from: clarshack on September 06, 2021, 04:50:04 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 06, 2021, 09:45:04 AM
Quote from: hoynevalley on September 05, 2021, 08:46:27 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-faces-criticism-after-being-pictured-at-uk-music-festival-on-same-weekend-electric-picnic-was-cancelled-40818818.html

Youd wonder has the man any cop on at all or just zero emotional intelligence? Its just so idiotic from him it beggars belief.

It's more likely that he thinks the plebs have zero intelligence, and that's why he treats them with contempt.
For a large section of voters, he is correct to assume that.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: johnnycool on September 07, 2021, 10:46:50 AM
Quote from: The Wedger on September 06, 2021, 06:25:52 PM
Quote from: clarshack on September 06, 2021, 04:50:04 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 06, 2021, 09:45:04 AM
Quote from: hoynevalley on September 05, 2021, 08:46:27 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-faces-criticism-after-being-pictured-at-uk-music-festival-on-same-weekend-electric-picnic-was-cancelled-40818818.html

Youd wonder has the man any cop on at all or just zero emotional intelligence? Its just so idiotic from him it beggars belief.

It's more likely that he thinks the plebs have zero intelligence, and that's why he treats them with contempt.
For a large section of voters, he is correct to assume that.

There'd be a perception up north that certain families would vote FF and certain ones would vote FG and that would be a generational thing. Would that still be the case or was it never the case?
Both would be deemed middle to right wing minded with FG slightly more rightwing than FF policy wise and at times probably not a lot of difference policy wise and I know FF took a bit of a pasting post the Celtic tiger collapse but seem to have recovered quickly enough.

Are there enough wavering voters to sustain SF's growth in the 26?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: shark on September 07, 2021, 11:41:50 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 07, 2021, 10:46:50 AM
Quote from: The Wedger on September 06, 2021, 06:25:52 PM
Quote from: clarshack on September 06, 2021, 04:50:04 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 06, 2021, 09:45:04 AM
Quote from: hoynevalley on September 05, 2021, 08:46:27 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-faces-criticism-after-being-pictured-at-uk-music-festival-on-same-weekend-electric-picnic-was-cancelled-40818818.html

Youd wonder has the man any cop on at all or just zero emotional intelligence? Its just so idiotic from him it beggars belief.

It's more likely that he thinks the plebs have zero intelligence, and that's why he treats them with contempt.
For a large section of voters, he is correct to assume that.

There'd be a perception up north that certain families would vote FF and certain ones would vote FG and that would be a generational thing. Would that still be the case or was it never the case?
Both would be deemed middle to right wing minded with FG slightly more rightwing than FF policy wise and at times probably not a lot of difference policy wise and I know FF took a bit of a pasting post the Celtic tiger collapse but seem to have recovered quickly enough.

Are there enough wavering voters to sustain SF's growth in the 26?

I think that generational thing is dead, and only exists for a much older cohort. Personally I can't think of any peers who are glued to one particular party, and I'm heading for forty. I would say I've given first preference votes to at least 4 parties in past 20 years.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 07, 2021, 12:56:35 PM
Would agree with Shark, the oul " the Kellys were always FF" is dying out among the younger set.
Roscommon/Galway has no TD from either!
If there are still plenty of jobs about in 2025 and people in Cities/big towns/ commuter belts can get houses SF won't be expanding their vote very much.
Health issues don't affect the younger cohorts.
As for Varadkar and Coveney....between gaffes and jobs for the girls....they're not doing themselves any favours.
Coveney has probably blown any chance of ever becoming leader of FG.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Denn Forever on September 07, 2021, 02:01:46 PM
at least wee  have a goverrment.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on September 07, 2021, 02:09:38 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 07, 2021, 02:01:46 PM
at least wee  have a goverrment.

Who clearly need to up their spend on education.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on September 07, 2021, 03:05:29 PM
Coveney made a right hames of things, which casts doubt on his competence. However, I don't think he was particularly close to Zappone and that Varadkar was behind her appointment. Coveney just didn't give the matter much thought.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 07, 2021, 09:09:26 PM
Quote from: hoynevalley on September 05, 2021, 08:46:27 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-faces-criticism-after-being-pictured-at-uk-music-festival-on-same-weekend-electric-picnic-was-cancelled-40818818.html


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-eeOV2XMAIW4wJ?format=jpg&name=small)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-ejG9_X0AAI4y0?format=jpg&name=small)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-enRrVWYAESKTT?format=jpg&name=small)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-euIHSWQAE4xuw?format=jpg&name=small)




Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Silver hill on September 08, 2021, 04:16:57 PM
Quote from: Franko on September 07, 2021, 02:09:38 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 07, 2021, 02:01:46 PM
at least wee  have a goverrment.

Who clearly need to up their spend on education.

😂😂👏👏
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on September 16, 2021, 11:08:21 AM
So Coveney survives his vote thanks to FF and a load of Independents who are in their pockets covering up croneyism.
McSharry quits FF calling them undemocratic totalitarian regime after refusing a meeting to discuss how they will vote
Best of all Simon Harris gets called out for the sneaky little f**k he is - another senior FG TD leaking information to the media, caught by one of his own back benchers.

I'd say we should be getting ready for an election.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 11:45:18 AM
Bitter shinner itchy not happy ;D
Of course all the Government and Government supporting TDs were going to support their man against the shinner stunt.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Main Street on September 16, 2021, 12:12:22 PM
It's a cute hoor stroke to use Dail privilege to out some dastardly deed by Harris so the newspapers can report on the accusation.

When Haughey did sleaze he did it royally, even telling banks to go fck themselves,  we could even have some pride in the class of strokes he pulled off. This Fine Gael sleaze is so petty and the cover-up so pathetic  they're an embarrassment to the nation.
Deleting pertinent texts from a phone, that's even worse than the cat peeded on my homework excuse.
And the coalition gov politicians queuing up to state that this was quite a legitimate and sincere task, to purposefully delete texts in the midst of a red hot, shit-hit-the-fan controversy!!  And in the mayhem, some FG lowlifes see the opportunity to move up the ladder.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on September 16, 2021, 12:15:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 11:45:18 AM
Bitter shinner itchy not happy ;D
Of course all the Government and Government supporting TDs were going to support their man against the shinner stunt.

I know for a man who votes based on Turf you might not understand the principle of the greater good. But backing corruption and cronyism when it is so blatant, again, is disgusting carry on. They will get their answer on the door step. Thats why McSharry jumped ship, he knows what is coming.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 01:09:31 PM
Was breaking every bone in a young man's body for "the greater good"?
Or murdering servants of the State e g Gerry McCabe, Patrick Kelly, Frank Hand etc for the greater good?
You might explain to a poor bog man how those and other murders of State employees were for the greater good?
Also hundreds of bank robberies in this State....
Then there are holiday homes in Donegal and a small farmer from Ballybinaby .... .
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Armagh18 on September 16, 2021, 01:11:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 01:09:31 PM
Was breaking every bone in a young man's body for "the greater good"?
Or murdering servants of the State e g Gerry McCabe, Patrick Kelly, Frank Hand etc for the greater good?
You might explain to a poor bog man how those and other murders of State employees were for the greater good?
Also hundreds of bank robberies in this State....
Then there are holiday homes in Donegal and a small farmer from Ballybinaby .... .
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on September 16, 2021, 01:44:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 01:09:31 PM
Was breaking every bone in a young man's body for "the greater good"?
Or murdering servants of the State e g Gerry McCabe, Patrick Kelly, Frank Hand etc for the greater good?
You might explain to a poor bog man how those and other murders of State employees were for the greater good?
Also hundreds of bank robberies in this State....
Then there are holiday homes in Donegal and a small farmer from Ballybinaby .... .

What about, what about, what about.....
Maybe tell the turf td your concerns and he will deal with it for you

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 16, 2021, 02:21:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 01:09:31 PM
Was breaking every bone in a young man's body for "the greater good"?
Or murdering servants of the State e g Gerry McCabe, Patrick Kelly, Frank Hand etc for the greater good?
You might explain to a poor bog man how those and other murders of State employees were for the greater good?
Also hundreds of bank robberies in this State....
Then there are holiday homes in Donegal and a small farmer from Ballybinaby .... .

The absolute state of this post.  ;D

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 03:33:54 PM
We're those and thousands of other Provo crimes in the 26 Cos
A- for the common good or
B - never happened
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Armagh18 on September 16, 2021, 03:57:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 03:33:54 PM
We're those and thousands of other Provo crimes in the 26 Cos
A- for the common good or
B - never happened
C- Irrelevant to what's being discussed.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 04:01:12 PM
D - glasshouses, stones, throw.
SF being holier than though is sickening hypocrisy!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 16, 2021, 04:09:05 PM
Typical response. The whataboutary dripping of those posts is embarrassing. No other subjects can be discussed only SF actions. Any attempt to do so, should just be redirected. It's the debating actions of a 8 year old.

Seriously do you have no shame??
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on September 16, 2021, 04:34:26 PM
This is what is known as a full blue shirt melt down. Basically, you cannot hold us accountable because some people somewhere else did something even worse. IRA, Gerry Adam, Shergar etc etc etc
The only thing that will appease Rossfan is if his local TD can fill the pothole outside his house, move and auld electric pole for him and sure allow him to cut his bog in peace - the big issues.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: tiempo on September 16, 2021, 04:44:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 03:33:54 PM
We're those and thousands of other Provo crimes in the 26 Cos
A- for the common good or
B - never happened

Life through the lens of a quisling from the demilitrized zone
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Armagh18 on September 16, 2021, 04:46:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 16, 2021, 04:34:26 PM
This is what is known as a full blue shirt melt down. Basically, you cannot hold us accountable because some people somewhere else did something even worse. IRA, Gerry Adam, Shergar etc etc etc
The only thing that will appease Rossfan is if his local TD can fill the pothole outside his house, move and auld electric pole for him and sure allow him to cut his bog in peace - the big issues.
In fairness if I could get the feckers to fix the roads around me it'd be a sserious help!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 05:54:42 PM
Indeed, quality of life issue.
And cutting turf is far more relevant to Irish people than a gang of half eejits playing silly games in the Dáil.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on September 16, 2021, 06:23:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 05:54:42 PM
Indeed, quality of life issue.
And cutting turf is far more relevant to Irish people than a gang of half eejits playing silly games in the Dáil.

Speak for yourself, I imagine turf cutting of roscommon people I of little concern to 1m plus people in Dublin.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 06:31:38 PM
Those privileged hoors have their natural gas!
And an awful lot of them are only 1 generation away from the turf fire.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on September 17, 2021, 11:23:04 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 01:09:31 PM
Was breaking every bone in a young man's body for "the greater good"?
Or murdering servants of the State e g Gerry McCabe, Patrick Kelly, Frank Hand etc for the greater good?
You might explain to a poor bog man how those and other murders of State employees were for the greater good?
Also hundreds of bank robberies in this State....
Then there are holiday homes in Donegal and a small farmer from Ballybinaby .... .

"FG are getting bad press, QUICK, GOOGLE THE NAMES OF IRA VICTIMS!!!!"
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Armagh18 on September 17, 2021, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.
Funny how the Quinn family hasnt been mentioned since the last election isn't it? Would it be possible that the media and other political parties don't give a shite about any of it until it suits them to try and buy votes? Most people can see through it, pity you can't.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 17, 2021, 11:49:34 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.

Grow up. Your last posts on this thread show exactly what you are. Your an embarrassment.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 01:04:26 PM
Shinners upset at being reminded of their murderous criminal past in the 26 Counties.
Aw diddums.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 17, 2021, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.
Funny how the Quinn family hasnt been mentioned since the last election isn't it? Would it be possible that the media and other political parties don't give a shite about any of it until it suits them to try and buy votes? Most people can see through it, pity you can't.


Really?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mum-of-murdered-ira-victim-paul-quinn-hopeful-of-justice-after-intervention-of-garda-commissioner-drew-harris-40806752.html
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 17, 2021, 01:47:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 01:04:26 PM
Shinners upset at being reminded of their murderous criminal past in the 26 Counties.
Aw diddums.
No one upset that I can see. Just a few laughing at you making a complete c**k of yourself again. I'm embarrassed for ya. 😂
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 17, 2021, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.
Funny how the Quinn family hasnt been mentioned since the last election isn't it? Would it be possible that the media and other political parties don't give a shite about any of it until it suits them to try and buy votes? Most people can see through it, pity you can't.


Really?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mum-of-murdered-ira-victim-paul-quinn-hopeful-of-justice-after-intervention-of-garda-commissioner-drew-harris-40806752.html

The context of that post was the Southern Media which during the last General Election cozied up with FF and FG and used the Quinns at every turn to try and effect the results of the election - print and tv media all aligned. The article you have provided is rare and is from a Northern Paper. You cannot seriously be saying the same level of scrutiny of the Quinn case existed after that General Election? I am afraid the FF and FG parties and their buddies chewed up the Quinns and spat them out when they were done with them. They don't care about him or his mother.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on September 17, 2021, 02:08:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.

Nothing says 'respect for the dead' quite like using their names (after a quick google to find them) in order to deflect attention from your beloved blueshirts latest corruption scandal, eh?

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 17, 2021, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.
Funny how the Quinn family hasnt been mentioned since the last election isn't it? Would it be possible that the media and other political parties don't give a shite about any of it until it suits them to try and buy votes? Most people can see through it, pity you can't.


Really?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mum-of-murdered-ira-victim-paul-quinn-hopeful-of-justice-after-intervention-of-garda-commissioner-drew-harris-40806752.html

The context of that post was the Southern Media which during the last General Election cozied up with FF and FG and used the Quinns at every turn to try and effect the results of the election - print and tv media all aligned. The article you have provided is rare and is from a Northern Paper. You cannot seriously be saying the same level of scrutiny of the Quinn case existed after that General Election? I am afraid the FF and FG parties and their buddies chewed up the Quinns and spat them out when they were done with them. They don't care about him or his mother.

Took me 5  secs to find, issued in last few weeks, whether the free state media care or not is not relevant really in the bigger schemes of this shocking murder for me.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 17, 2021, 02:50:14 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 17, 2021, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.
Funny how the Quinn family hasnt been mentioned since the last election isn't it? Would it be possible that the media and other political parties don't give a shite about any of it until it suits them to try and buy votes? Most people can see through it, pity you can't.


Really?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mum-of-murdered-ira-victim-paul-quinn-hopeful-of-justice-after-intervention-of-garda-commissioner-drew-harris-40806752.html

The context of that post was the Southern Media which during the last General Election cozied up with FF and FG and used the Quinns at every turn to try and effect the results of the election - print and tv media all aligned. The article you have provided is rare and is from a Northern Paper. You cannot seriously be saying the same level of scrutiny of the Quinn case existed after that General Election? I am afraid the FF and FG parties and their buddies chewed up the Quinns and spat them out when they were done with them. They don't care about him or his mother.

Took me 5  secs to find, issued in last few weeks, whether the free state media care or not is not relevant really in the bigger schemes of this shocking murder for me.

But I think you'll agree not relevant to the discussion on Coveney.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 17, 2021, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.
Funny how the Quinn family hasnt been mentioned since the last election isn't it? Would it be possible that the media and other political parties don't give a shite about any of it until it suits them to try and buy votes? Most people can see through it, pity you can't.


Really?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mum-of-murdered-ira-victim-paul-quinn-hopeful-of-justice-after-intervention-of-garda-commissioner-drew-harris-40806752.html

The context of that post was the Southern Media which during the last General Election cozied up with FF and FG and used the Quinns at every turn to try and effect the results of the election - print and tv media all aligned. The article you have provided is rare and is from a Northern Paper. You cannot seriously be saying the same level of scrutiny of the Quinn case existed after that General Election? I am afraid the FF and FG parties and their buddies chewed up the Quinns and spat them out when they were done with them. They don't care about him or his mother.

Took me 5  secs to find, issued in last few weeks, whether the free state media care or not is not relevant really in the bigger schemes of this shocking murder for me.

I dont deny it was a shocking murder carried out by scumbags who I hope get what's coming to them. My issue is the media down here don't care one bit about it and neither do FF and FG, they used it to throw mud at SF hoping it would stick - it didnt as the electorate have had enough of their crap down here.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 03:08:06 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 17, 2021, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.
Funny how the Quinn family hasnt been mentioned since the last election isn't it? Would it be possible that the media and other political parties don't give a shite about any of it until it suits them to try and buy votes? Most people can see through it, pity you can't.


Really?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mum-of-murdered-ira-victim-paul-quinn-hopeful-of-justice-after-intervention-of-garda-commissioner-drew-harris-40806752.html

The context of that post was the Southern Media which during the last General Election cozied up with FF and FG and used the Quinns at every turn to try and effect the results of the election - print and tv media all aligned. The article you have provided is rare and is from a Northern Paper. You cannot seriously be saying the same level of scrutiny of the Quinn case existed after that General Election? I am afraid the FF and FG parties and their buddies chewed up the Quinns and spat them out when they were done with them. They don't care about him or his mother.

Took me 5  secs to find, issued in last few weeks, whether the free state media care or not is not relevant really in the bigger schemes of this shocking murder for me.

I dont deny it was a shocking murder carried out by scumbags who I hope get what's coming to them. My issue is the media down here don't care one bit about it and neither do FF and FG, they used it to throw mud at SF hoping it would stick - it didnt as the electorate have had enough of their crap down here.

Thats politics
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: tiempo on September 17, 2021, 03:44:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 01:04:26 PM
Shinners upset at being reminded of their murderous criminal past in the 26 Counties.
Aw diddums.

The quislings quisling. Way back to the shires of Roscommon with ye.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 03:49:37 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 03:08:06 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 17, 2021, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.
Funny how the Quinn family hasnt been mentioned since the last election isn't it? Would it be possible that the media and other political parties don't give a shite about any of it until it suits them to try and buy votes? Most people can see through it, pity you can't.


Really?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mum-of-murdered-ira-victim-paul-quinn-hopeful-of-justice-after-intervention-of-garda-commissioner-drew-harris-40806752.html

The context of that post was the Southern Media which during the last General Election cozied up with FF and FG and used the Quinns at every turn to try and effect the results of the election - print and tv media all aligned. The article you have provided is rare and is from a Northern Paper. You cannot seriously be saying the same level of scrutiny of the Quinn case existed after that General Election? I am afraid the FF and FG parties and their buddies chewed up the Quinns and spat them out when they were done with them. They don't care about him or his mother.

Took me 5  secs to find, issued in last few weeks, whether the free state media care or not is not relevant really in the bigger schemes of this shocking murder for me.

I dont deny it was a shocking murder carried out by scumbags who I hope get what's coming to them. My issue is the media down here don't care one bit about it and neither do FF and FG, they used it to throw mud at SF hoping it would stick - it didnt as the electorate have had enough of their crap down here.

Thats politics

So its ok is it in your view, you know, to use a victims grief to forward your own gain. You would be ok to see that happen if it were done by the DUP for example and you'd say "thats politics"?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 17, 2021, 03:51:14 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 03:08:06 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 17, 2021, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.
Funny how the Quinn family hasnt been mentioned since the last election isn't it? Would it be possible that the media and other political parties don't give a shite about any of it until it suits them to try and buy votes? Most people can see through it, pity you can't.


Really?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mum-of-murdered-ira-victim-paul-quinn-hopeful-of-justice-after-intervention-of-garda-commissioner-drew-harris-40806752.html

The context of that post was the Southern Media which during the last General Election cozied up with FF and FG and used the Quinns at every turn to try and effect the results of the election - print and tv media all aligned. The article you have provided is rare and is from a Northern Paper. You cannot seriously be saying the same level of scrutiny of the Quinn case existed after that General Election? I am afraid the FF and FG parties and their buddies chewed up the Quinns and spat them out when they were done with them. They don't care about him or his mother.

Took me 5  secs to find, issued in last few weeks, whether the free state media care or not is not relevant really in the bigger schemes of this shocking murder for me.

I dont deny it was a shocking murder carried out by scumbags who I hope get what's coming to them. My issue is the media down here don't care one bit about it and neither do FF and FG, they used it to throw mud at SF hoping it would stick - it didnt as the electorate have had enough of their crap down here.

Thats politics

So you'll be quite happy for SF to do the same, to deflect and distract. Otherwise you'd be a bit of a hypocrite. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hound on September 18, 2021, 06:48:34 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 01:04:26 PM
Shinners upset at being reminded of their murderous criminal past in the 26 Counties.
Aw diddums.
John Hume publicly condemned each of the terrorist acts you mentioned, so you know you're on the right side, despite the frenzied reaction!

The question though is, is there any real remaining link between current Sinn Fein and those who committed or ordered the murders of innocents?
Because if there's no link it would not be fair to criticize. I'm sure the celebratory songs in bad taste will be kept private in future.
The biggest uncertainty surrounds the Council that oversees SF policy and decision making, and how SF and their supporters don't like to admit it exists or talk about their real leaders, and instead continue the pretence that Mary Lou is the leader!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 18, 2021, 07:47:47 AM
Quote from: Hound on September 18, 2021, 06:48:34 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 01:04:26 PM
Shinners upset at being reminded of their murderous criminal past in the 26 Counties.
Aw diddums.
John Hume publicly condemned each of the terrorist acts you mentioned, so you know you're on the right side, despite the frenzied reaction!

The question though is, is there any real remaining link between current Sinn Fein and those who committed or ordered the murders of innocents?
Because if there's no link it would not be fair to criticize. I'm sure the celebratory songs in bad taste will be kept private in future.
The biggest uncertainty surrounds the Council that oversees SF policy and decision making, and how SF and their supporters don't like to admit it exists or talk about their real leaders, and instead continue the pretence that Mary Lou is the leader!

How is that the question? Seriously? Is any actions by FF/FG to be ignored because of previous SF actions. It's utterly unbelievable that you read the recent exchanges and believe that is the question.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 18, 2021, 09:29:18 AM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 03:49:37 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 03:08:06 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 17, 2021, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.
Funny how the Quinn family hasnt been mentioned since the last election isn't it? Would it be possible that the media and other political parties don't give a shite about any of it until it suits them to try and buy votes? Most people can see through it, pity you can't.


Really?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mum-of-murdered-ira-victim-paul-quinn-hopeful-of-justice-after-intervention-of-garda-commissioner-drew-harris-40806752.html

The context of that post was the Southern Media which during the last General Election cozied up with FF and FG and used the Quinns at every turn to try and effect the results of the election - print and tv media all aligned. The article you have provided is rare and is from a Northern Paper. You cannot seriously be saying the same level of scrutiny of the Quinn case existed after that General Election? I am afraid the FF and FG parties and their buddies chewed up the Quinns and spat them out when they were done with them. They don't care about him or his mother.

Took me 5  secs to find, issued in last few weeks, whether the free state media care or not is not relevant really in the bigger schemes of this shocking murder for me.

I dont deny it was a shocking murder carried out by scumbags who I hope get what's coming to them. My issue is the media down here don't care one bit about it and neither do FF and FG, they used it to throw mud at SF hoping it would stick - it didnt as the electorate have had enough of their crap down here.

Thats politics

So its ok is it in your view, you know, to use a victims grief to forward your own gain. You would be ok to see that happen if it were done by the DUP for example and you'd say "thats politics"?

SF do it all the time , as I said that's politics , a dirty business
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 18, 2021, 09:30:16 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 17, 2021, 03:51:14 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 03:08:06 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 17, 2021, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.
Funny how the Quinn family hasnt been mentioned since the last election isn't it? Would it be possible that the media and other political parties don't give a shite about any of it until it suits them to try and buy votes? Most people can see through it, pity you can't.


Really?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mum-of-murdered-ira-victim-paul-quinn-hopeful-of-justice-after-intervention-of-garda-commissioner-drew-harris-40806752.html

The context of that post was the Southern Media which during the last General Election cozied up with FF and FG and used the Quinns at every turn to try and effect the results of the election - print and tv media all aligned. The article you have provided is rare and is from a Northern Paper. You cannot seriously be saying the same level of scrutiny of the Quinn case existed after that General Election? I am afraid the FF and FG parties and their buddies chewed up the Quinns and spat them out when they were done with them. They don't care about him or his mother.

Took me 5  secs to find, issued in last few weeks, whether the free state media care or not is not relevant really in the bigger schemes of this shocking murder for me.

I dont deny it was a shocking murder carried out by scumbags who I hope get what's coming to them. My issue is the media down here don't care one bit about it and neither do FF and FG, they used it to throw mud at SF hoping it would stick - it didnt as the electorate have had enough of their crap down here.

Thats politics

So you'll be quite happy for SF to do the same, to deflect and distract. Otherwise you'd be a bit of a hypocrite.

I can't see where I said I was happy with anything
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 18, 2021, 09:31:28 AM
Quote from: Hound on September 18, 2021, 06:48:34 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 01:04:26 PM
Shinners upset at being reminded of their murderous criminal past in the 26 Counties.
Aw diddums.
John Hume publicly condemned each of the terrorist acts you mentioned, so you know you're on the right side, despite the frenzied reaction!

The question though is, is there any real remaining link between current Sinn Fein and those who committed or ordered the murders of innocents?
Because if there's no link it would not be fair to criticize. I'm sure the celebratory songs in bad taste will be kept private in future.
The biggest uncertainty surrounds the Council that oversees SF policy and decision making, and how SF and their supporters don't like to admit it exists or talk about their real leaders, and instead continue the pretence that Mary Lou is the leader!

The link still exists.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 18, 2021, 10:23:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 18, 2021, 09:30:16 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 17, 2021, 03:51:14 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 03:08:06 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 17, 2021, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.
Funny how the Quinn family hasnt been mentioned since the last election isn't it? Would it be possible that the media and other political parties don't give a shite about any of it until it suits them to try and buy votes? Most people can see through it, pity you can't.


Really?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mum-of-murdered-ira-victim-paul-quinn-hopeful-of-justice-after-intervention-of-garda-commissioner-drew-harris-40806752.html

The context of that post was the Southern Media which during the last General Election cozied up with FF and FG and used the Quinns at every turn to try and effect the results of the election - print and tv media all aligned. The article you have provided is rare and is from a Northern Paper. You cannot seriously be saying the same level of scrutiny of the Quinn case existed after that General Election? I am afraid the FF and FG parties and their buddies chewed up the Quinns and spat them out when they were done with them. They don't care about him or his mother.

Took me 5  secs to find, issued in last few weeks, whether the free state media care or not is not relevant really in the bigger schemes of this shocking murder for me.

I dont deny it was a shocking murder carried out by scumbags who I hope get what's coming to them. My issue is the media down here don't care one bit about it and neither do FF and FG, they used it to throw mud at SF hoping it would stick - it didnt as the electorate have had enough of their crap down here.

Thats politics

So you'll be quite happy for SF to do the same, to deflect and distract. Otherwise you'd be a bit of a hypocrite.

I can't see where I said I was happy with anything

So you'll not complain in the future if a SF supporter does likewise? I'm going to call BS on that.

Anyway job done by Rossfan and Hound. Well played.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 18, 2021, 10:48:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 18, 2021, 10:23:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 18, 2021, 09:30:16 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 17, 2021, 03:51:14 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 03:08:06 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 17, 2021, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.
Funny how the Quinn family hasnt been mentioned since the last election isn't it? Would it be possible that the media and other political parties don't give a shite about any of it until it suits them to try and buy votes? Most people can see through it, pity you can't.


Really?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mum-of-murdered-ira-victim-paul-quinn-hopeful-of-justice-after-intervention-of-garda-commissioner-drew-harris-40806752.html

The context of that post was the Southern Media which during the last General Election cozied up with FF and FG and used the Quinns at every turn to try and effect the results of the election - print and tv media all aligned. The article you have provided is rare and is from a Northern Paper. You cannot seriously be saying the same level of scrutiny of the Quinn case existed after that General Election? I am afraid the FF and FG parties and their buddies chewed up the Quinns and spat them out when they were done with them. They don't care about him or his mother.

Took me 5  secs to find, issued in last few weeks, whether the free state media care or not is not relevant really in the bigger schemes of this shocking murder for me.

I dont deny it was a shocking murder carried out by scumbags who I hope get what's coming to them. My issue is the media down here don't care one bit about it and neither do FF and FG, they used it to throw mud at SF hoping it would stick - it didnt as the electorate have had enough of their crap down here.

Thats politics

So you'll be quite happy for SF to do the same, to deflect and distract. Otherwise you'd be a bit of a hypocrite.

I can't see where I said I was happy with anything

So you'll not complain in the future if a SF supporter does likewise? I'm going to call BS on that.

Anyway job done by Rossfan and Hound. Well played.

Oh I will and do, it's what I said , politics, entirely littered with hypocrisy at every level and within every party . Grow up and get with it
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 18, 2021, 10:58:59 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 18, 2021, 10:48:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 18, 2021, 10:23:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 18, 2021, 09:30:16 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 17, 2021, 03:51:14 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 03:08:06 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 17, 2021, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.
Funny how the Quinn family hasnt been mentioned since the last election isn't it? Would it be possible that the media and other political parties don't give a shite about any of it until it suits them to try and buy votes? Most people can see through it, pity you can't.


Really?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mum-of-murdered-ira-victim-paul-quinn-hopeful-of-justice-after-intervention-of-garda-commissioner-drew-harris-40806752.html

The context of that post was the Southern Media which during the last General Election cozied up with FF and FG and used the Quinns at every turn to try and effect the results of the election - print and tv media all aligned. The article you have provided is rare and is from a Northern Paper. You cannot seriously be saying the same level of scrutiny of the Quinn case existed after that General Election? I am afraid the FF and FG parties and their buddies chewed up the Quinns and spat them out when they were done with them. They don't care about him or his mother.

Took me 5  secs to find, issued in last few weeks, whether the free state media care or not is not relevant really in the bigger schemes of this shocking murder for me.

I dont deny it was a shocking murder carried out by scumbags who I hope get what's coming to them. My issue is the media down here don't care one bit about it and neither do FF and FG, they used it to throw mud at SF hoping it would stick - it didnt as the electorate have had enough of their crap down here.

Thats politics

So you'll be quite happy for SF to do the same, to deflect and distract. Otherwise you'd be a bit of a hypocrite.

I can't see where I said I was happy with anything

So you'll not complain in the future if a SF supporter does likewise? I'm going to call BS on that.

Anyway job done by Rossfan and Hound. Well played.

Oh I will and do, it's what I said , politics, entirely littered with hypocrisy at every level and within every party . Grow up and get with it

Grow up, really? After that BS.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 18, 2021, 11:24:54 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 18, 2021, 10:58:59 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 18, 2021, 10:48:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 18, 2021, 10:23:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 18, 2021, 09:30:16 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 17, 2021, 03:51:14 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 03:08:06 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 17, 2021, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 17, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 17, 2021, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2021, 11:42:38 AM
What an insulting comnent to the relatives of all those servants of this State murdered by your favourite political "movement".
I know you lot have airbrushed them from the narrative but most of us here know their names without Google.
Funny how the Quinn family hasnt been mentioned since the last election isn't it? Would it be possible that the media and other political parties don't give a shite about any of it until it suits them to try and buy votes? Most people can see through it, pity you can't.


Really?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/mum-of-murdered-ira-victim-paul-quinn-hopeful-of-justice-after-intervention-of-garda-commissioner-drew-harris-40806752.html

The context of that post was the Southern Media which during the last General Election cozied up with FF and FG and used the Quinns at every turn to try and effect the results of the election - print and tv media all aligned. The article you have provided is rare and is from a Northern Paper. You cannot seriously be saying the same level of scrutiny of the Quinn case existed after that General Election? I am afraid the FF and FG parties and their buddies chewed up the Quinns and spat them out when they were done with them. They don't care about him or his mother.

Took me 5  secs to find, issued in last few weeks, whether the free state media care or not is not relevant really in the bigger schemes of this shocking murder for me.

I dont deny it was a shocking murder carried out by scumbags who I hope get what's coming to them. My issue is the media down here don't care one bit about it and neither do FF and FG, they used it to throw mud at SF hoping it would stick - it didnt as the electorate have had enough of their crap down here.

Thats politics

So you'll be quite happy for SF to do the same, to deflect and distract. Otherwise you'd be a bit of a hypocrite.

I can't see where I said I was happy with anything

So you'll not complain in the future if a SF supporter does likewise? I'm going to call BS on that.

Anyway job done by Rossfan and Hound. Well played.

Oh I will and do, it's what I said , politics, entirely littered with hypocrisy at every level and within every party . Grow up and get with it

Grow up, really? After that BS.

My das bigger than your da
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 18, 2021, 11:29:46 AM
Anything that differs from the Shinner manual  is "BS" according to their gaaboard spokesperson ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 18, 2021, 11:45:52 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 18, 2021, 11:29:46 AM
Anything that differs from the Shinner manual  is "BS" according to their gaaboard spokesperson ;D

It's all there Rossfan. Everyone can see your posts. Nowhere to hide.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on September 18, 2021, 12:03:01 PM
Lest Hound, Rossfan and their Derry lapdog succeed in distracting everyone, the story here is Fine Gael corruption. A story which, believe it or not,  has precisely nothing to do with the IRA.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 18, 2021, 12:12:59 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on September 18, 2021, 12:03:01 PM
Lest Hound, Rossfan and their Derry lapdog succeed in distracting everyone, the story here is Fine Gael corruption. A story which, believe it or not,  has precisely nothing to do with the IRA.

Whatsboutery Snapchat. We're discussing SF's actions don't cha know.

If it wasn't as blatant as RossFan's attempt, it would usually work. However in his panic, he didn't even manage to do it tactfully. An embarrassing attempt.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 18, 2021, 01:38:58 PM
Yep,
Only in Shinnerland is trying to fix up a crony with a part time job a worse crime than murdering State employees.
How many widows and orphans would have been created if Zappone got that role?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 18, 2021, 01:50:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 18, 2021, 01:38:58 PM
Yep,
Only in Shinnerland is trying to fix up a crony with a part time job a worse crime than murdering State employees.
How many widows and orphans would have been created if Zappone got that role?
Most people can debate incidents on their own merit. Some  would prefer to try and deflect and distract. Your just keen to double down on your earlier embarrassment.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on September 18, 2021, 04:11:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 18, 2021, 01:38:58 PM
Yep,
Only in Shinnerland is trying to fix up a crony with a part time job a worse crime than murdering State employees.
How many widows and orphans would have been created if Zappone got that role?

Oh right, so we can't talk about this story of FG corruption, because the IRA? Gotcha.

::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on September 18, 2021, 04:35:49 PM
We can.
Provos on the other hand are in no position to hypocritically lecture anyone about right and wrong.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on September 18, 2021, 04:59:41 PM
Have it your way Rosfan and let's start again.

The other day the Labour Party voted no confidence in Simon Coveney for cronyism. Care to comment on the rights or wrongs of that (I assume you won't be linking Labour to anything else that stops you addressing the matter at hand)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on September 18, 2021, 05:06:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 18, 2021, 04:35:49 PM
We can.
Provos on the other hand are in no position to hypocritically lecture anyone about right and wrong.

lol so the Sinn Féin TDs are all provos and despite being elected, should not be allowed to perform their role of opposition?

Ye have no f**king shame. Lecturing about respect for the dead while simultaneously dragging a few names from the grave to use and abuse, and all because you can't bear to see your beloved blueshirts being called out for another act of political corruption.

And the best part is, the penny STILL hasn't dropped with you and your ilk about just how counter-productive the "yeah but what about the ra" line is when trotted out as a defence of FFG skulduggery/incompetence. People can see through that tactic from a mile off. Time has moved on. It's 2021, not 1971. Join the rest of us here when you are good and ready.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on September 18, 2021, 05:12:33 PM
Anyway, back to the topic at hand (sorry Rossfan).

You do have to wonder how there hasn't been more of a move against Micheal Martin. The man's tenure seems to be characterised by constant defending of FGs most senior figurers who are seemingly embroiled in an unending row of scandals. Imagine being a FF leader who will be remembered for nothing more than a desperate need to protect and defend FG. Laughable.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: From the Bunker on September 18, 2021, 06:44:43 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on September 18, 2021, 05:12:33 PM
Anyway, back to the topic at hand (sorry Rossfan).

You do have to wonder how there hasn't been more of a move against Micheal Martin. The man's tenure seems to be characterised by constant defending of FGs most senior figurers who are seemingly embroiled in an unending row of scandals. Imagine being a FF leader who will be remembered for nothing more than a desperate need to protect and defend FG. Laughable.

The answer to this is very simple. Martin has only 15 months to go as Taoiseach. He will be left as leader until then. I doubt he'll even challenge a leadership heave after that. After that date December 22, Fianna Fail will be getting ready to battle the next General Election and they will not be the best of bedfellows with Fine Gael during this period. This will work both ways!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 18, 2021, 08:57:52 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 18, 2021, 06:44:43 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on September 18, 2021, 05:12:33 PM
Anyway, back to the topic at hand (sorry Rossfan).

You do have to wonder how there hasn't been more of a move against Micheal Martin. The man's tenure seems to be characterised by constant defending of FGs most senior figurers who are seemingly embroiled in an unending row of scandals. Imagine being a FF leader who will be remembered for nothing more than a desperate need to protect and defend FG. Laughable.

The answer to this is very simple. Martin has only 15 months to go as Taoiseach. He will be left as leader until then. I doubt he'll even challenge a leadership heave after that. After that date December 22, Fianna Fail will be getting ready to battle the next General Election and they will not be the best of bedfellows with Fine Gael during this period. This will work both ways!

The part that's left of FF I assume you mean.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: From the Bunker on September 18, 2021, 09:09:23 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 18, 2021, 08:57:52 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 18, 2021, 06:44:43 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on September 18, 2021, 05:12:33 PM
Anyway, back to the topic at hand (sorry Rossfan).

You do have to wonder how there hasn't been more of a move against Micheal Martin. The man's tenure seems to be characterised by constant defending of FGs most senior figurers who are seemingly embroiled in an unending row of scandals. Imagine being a FF leader who will be remembered for nothing more than a desperate need to protect and defend FG. Laughable.

The answer to this is very simple. Martin has only 15 months to go as Taoiseach. He will be left as leader until then. I doubt he'll even challenge a leadership heave after that. After that date December 22, Fianna Fail will be getting ready to battle the next General Election and they will not be the best of bedfellows with Fine Gael during this period. This will work both ways!

The part that's left of FF I assume you mean.

They will all be back on board once the aesthetics of electing a new leader have been sorted out.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Captain Scarlet on April 08, 2022, 12:06:53 PM
May as well keep this going here, as the Tony Holohan episode is showing that FF and FG have not learned anything from the Zappone craic!

So he has no Phd and never had anything published but is now a Professor on his current salary.
He is on secondment so normally he should return but it's open-ended and none of the Govt seem to know anything about it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on April 08, 2022, 12:15:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on April 08, 2022, 12:06:53 PM
May as well keep this going here, as the Tony Holohan episode is showing that FF and FG have not learned anything from the Zappone craic!

So he has no Phd and never had anything published but is now a Professor on his current salary.
He is on secondment so normally he should return but it's open-ended and none of the Govt seem to know anything about it.

This is not like the Zappone case. Nobody in govt signed off on Holohans secondment. They weren't made aware until after it had been agreed by department and have asked for it to be paused now.
It's a ridiculous agreement.  On secondment from a job he stated he doesn't intend returning too, yet he will continue to be paid in full for that job, and his new 'employer', Trinity,  won't be paying him a penny!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on April 08, 2022, 12:44:10 PM
Did anyone i.e Sec General  of Dept of Health approve this or was it a ready up between senior medical mates?
Even if it was wouldn't some top dog in Dept of Health have to approve continuing to pay him his salary?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on April 08, 2022, 01:23:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 08, 2022, 12:44:10 PM
Did anyone i.e Sec General  of Dept of Health approve this or was it a ready up between senior medical mates?
Even if it was wouldn't some top dog in Dept of Health have to approve continuing to pay him his salary?


Robert Watt signed off on it
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on April 08, 2022, 01:41:40 PM
https://twitter.com/IrishTimesOpEd/status/1512407525278294016?t=ca-59csEXWYaaFI7lUQRTQ&s=19
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on November 02, 2022, 04:48:59 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2022/1102/1332697-marc-macsharry/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on November 02, 2022, 05:06:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 02, 2022, 04:48:59 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2022/1102/1332697-marc-macsharry/
Wrong thread or are you thinking he'll go to FG.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on November 02, 2022, 08:49:32 PM
Think Independent. He'll be joining his good friends the Healy Raes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3r8IBlVtys
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on November 02, 2022, 09:57:31 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 02, 2022, 08:49:32 PM
Think Independent. He'll be joining his good friends the Healy Raes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3r8IBlVtys

He's a gobshite, he likely to lose his seat
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 10:58:29 AM
I see caught on video in a nightclub shifting the face of a young lad who isn't his partner. Personally I couldn't care less but the silence of media today is worth noting. Would it be so silent if

1 - it was a woman TD caught snogging a man who wasn't her partner

Or

2 - if it was Mary Lou McDonald (this would be front page news for 6 months)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: shark on December 05, 2022, 11:01:33 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 10:58:29 AM
I see caught on video in a nightclub shifting the face of a young lad who isn't his partner. Personally I couldn't care less but the silence of media today is worth noting. Would it be so silent if

1 - it was a woman TD caught snogging a man who wasn't her partner

Or

2 - if it was Mary Lou McDonald (this would be front page news for 6 months)

It's a TikTok video. Can it be 100% verified that it hasn't been altered in some way? That's the question I'd be asking if I was an editor. Otherwise risk getting sued.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Armagh18 on December 05, 2022, 11:08:22 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 10:58:29 AM
I see caught on video in a nightclub shifting the face of a young lad who isn't his partner. Personally I couldn't care less but the silence of media today is worth noting. Would it be so silent if

1 - it was a woman TD caught snogging a man who wasn't her partner

Or

2 - if it was Mary Lou McDonald (this would be front page news for 6 months)
Or another male td shifting a woman...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 11:17:30 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2022, 11:08:22 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 10:58:29 AM
I see caught on video in a nightclub shifting the face of a young lad who isn't his partner. Personally I couldn't care less but the silence of media today is worth noting. Would it be so silent if

1 - it was a woman TD caught snogging a man who wasn't her partner

Or

2 - if it was Mary Lou McDonald (this would be front page news for 6 months)
Or another male td shifting a woman...

Depends what party
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Armagh18 on December 05, 2022, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 11:17:30 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2022, 11:08:22 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 10:58:29 AM
I see caught on video in a nightclub shifting the face of a young lad who isn't his partner. Personally I couldn't care less but the silence of media today is worth noting. Would it be so silent if

1 - it was a woman TD caught snogging a man who wasn't her partner

Or

2 - if it was Mary Lou McDonald (this would be front page news for 6 months)
Or another male td shifting a woman...

Depends what party
Of course.
Anyway, Leo's business is Leo's business, as is Mary-Lou's and every other politicians. As long as everythings consensual then the media don't need to be telling us about anything they get up to
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: illdecide on December 06, 2022, 08:56:51 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2022, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 11:17:30 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2022, 11:08:22 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 10:58:29 AM
I see caught on video in a nightclub shifting the face of a young lad who isn't his partner. Personally I couldn't care less but the silence of media today is worth noting. Would it be so silent if

1 - it was a woman TD caught snogging a man who wasn't her partner

Or

2 - if it was Mary Lou McDonald (this would be front page news for 6 months)
Or another male td shifting a woman...

Depends what party
Of course.
Anyway, Leo's business is Leo's business, as is Mary-Lou's and every other politicians. As long as everythings consensual then the media don't need to be telling us about anything they get up to

All well and good but if the shoe was on the other foot LV would slaughter Mary Lou if it had been a member of SF caught in the act. In fact he'll probably say SF edited it to look like him ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Armagh18 on December 06, 2022, 09:19:04 AM
Quote from: illdecide on December 06, 2022, 08:56:51 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2022, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 11:17:30 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2022, 11:08:22 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 10:58:29 AM
I see caught on video in a nightclub shifting the face of a young lad who isn't his partner. Personally I couldn't care less but the silence of media today is worth noting. Would it be so silent if

1 - it was a woman TD caught snogging a man who wasn't her partner

Or

2 - if it was Mary Lou McDonald (this would be front page news for 6 months)
Or another male td shifting a woman...

Depends what party
Of course.
Anyway, Leo's business is Leo's business, as is Mary-Lou's and every other politicians. As long as everythings consensual then the media don't need to be telling us about anything they get up to

All well and good but if the shoe was on the other foot LV would slaughter Mary Lou if it had been a member of SF caught in the act. In fact he'll probably say SF edited it to look like him ::)
Absolutely. Be headline news for a month with Joe Duffy flat out
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on December 06, 2022, 12:41:46 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2022, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 11:17:30 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2022, 11:08:22 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 10:58:29 AM
I see caught on video in a nightclub shifting the face of a young lad who isn't his partner. Personally I couldn't care less but the silence of media today is worth noting. Would it be so silent if

1 - it was a woman TD caught snogging a man who wasn't her partner

Or

2 - if it was Mary Lou McDonald (this would be front page news for 6 months)
Or another male td shifting a woman...

Depends what party
Of course.
Anyway, Leo's business is Leo's business, as is Mary-Lou's and every other politicians. As long as everythings consensual then the media don't need to be telling us about anything they get up to
Anything?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: tonto1888 on December 08, 2022, 08:52:25 AM
Quote from: shark on December 05, 2022, 11:01:33 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 10:58:29 AM
I see caught on video in a nightclub shifting the face of a young lad who isn't his partner. Personally I couldn't care less but the silence of media today is worth noting. Would it be so silent if

1 - it was a woman TD caught snogging a man who wasn't her partner

Or

2 - if it was Mary Lou McDonald (this would be front page news for 6 months)

It's a TikTok video. Can it be 100% verified that it hasn't been altered in some way? That's the question I'd be asking if I was an editor. Otherwise risk getting sued.

would they be bothered if it was any of the scenarios Itchy mentioned?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: shark on December 08, 2022, 09:52:58 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on December 08, 2022, 08:52:25 AM
Quote from: shark on December 05, 2022, 11:01:33 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 10:58:29 AM
I see caught on video in a nightclub shifting the face of a young lad who isn't his partner. Personally I couldn't care less but the silence of media today is worth noting. Would it be so silent if

1 - it was a woman TD caught snogging a man who wasn't her partner

Or

2 - if it was Mary Lou McDonald (this would be front page news for 6 months)

It's a TikTok video. Can it be 100% verified that it hasn't been altered in some way? That's the question I'd be asking if I was an editor. Otherwise risk getting sued.

would they be bothered if it was any of the scenarios Itchy mentioned?

If the source was unverified? yeah they would be bothered I'd say. getting your employer sued is not a good look.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 08, 2022, 10:14:51 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 10:58:29 AM
I see caught on video in a nightclub shifting the face of a young lad who isn't his partner. Personally I couldn't care less but the silence of media today is worth noting. Would it be so silent if

1 - it was a woman TD caught snogging a man who wasn't her partner

Or

2 - if it was Mary Lou McDonald (this would be front page news for 6 months)

Why bother posting then, he can do what he wants
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on December 08, 2022, 10:27:48 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 08, 2022, 10:14:51 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 10:58:29 AM
I see caught on video in a nightclub shifting the face of a young lad who isn't his partner. Personally I couldn't care less

Why bother posting then, he can do what he wants


Imagine someone coming onto a thread to announce they aren't interested in the topic being discussed. I remember somebody doing something similar on the Celtic thread recently:

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 03, 2022, 10:08:20 PM
Never will get the Celtic thing.grew out of it at 15.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 08, 2022, 12:38:27 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 08, 2022, 10:27:48 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 08, 2022, 10:14:51 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2022, 10:58:29 AM
I see caught on video in a nightclub shifting the face of a young lad who isn't his partner. Personally I couldn't care less

Why bother posting then, he can do what he wants


Imagine someone coming onto a thread to announce they aren't interested in the topic being discussed. I remember somebody doing something similar on the Celtic thread recently:

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 03, 2022, 10:08:20 PM
Never will get the Celtic thing.grew out of it at 15.

Where did i say i wasn't interested?

Jesus that's sad there on the Celtic thing. Mind my name for you? G**p
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on December 08, 2022, 01:39:36 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 08, 2022, 12:38:27 PM
Mind my name for you? G**p

Yeah I'm familiar with it. You've called me it 5 or 6 times now I'm sure.

Four instances of personal abuse is supposed to earn you a permanent ban around here, so here's hoping   ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 08, 2022, 02:29:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 08, 2022, 01:39:36 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 08, 2022, 12:38:27 PM
Mind my name for you? G**p

Yeah I'm familiar with it. You've called me it 5 or 6 times now I'm sure.

Four instances of personal abuse is supposed to earn you a permanent ban around here, so here's hoping   ::)

Because you are.

Anyhow where did I say I wasnt interested? I couldnt care about a ban. Gone you off crying like a wee cry a baby again to mods
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on December 08, 2022, 02:32:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 08, 2022, 02:29:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on December 08, 2022, 01:39:36 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 08, 2022, 12:38:27 PM
Mind my name for you? G**p

Yeah I'm familiar with it. You've called me it 5 or 6 times now I'm sure.

Four instances of personal abuse is supposed to earn you a permanent ban around here, so here's hoping   ::)

Because you are.

Anyhow where did I say I wasnt interested? I couldnt care about a ban. Gone you off crying like a wee cry a baby again to mods

lol keep it up
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: bennydorano on December 13, 2022, 05:45:28 PM
So is the Leo thing just going to he brushed under the carpet then? 

Mind the days politicians would have resigned for such shenanigans. Are people afraid to pull him because he's gay and they're afraid of getting themselves tied up in knots or is it more his mates in the media looking out for him?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on December 13, 2022, 06:31:16 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2022, 05:45:28 PM
So is the Leo thing just going to he brushed under the carpet then? 

Mind the days politicians would have resigned for such shenanigans. Are people afraid to pull him because he's gay and they're afraid of getting themselves tied up in knots or is it more his mates in the media looking out for him?

Maybe people think he's entitled to a private life like the rest of us?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: bennydorano on December 13, 2022, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 13, 2022, 06:31:16 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2022, 05:45:28 PM
So is the Leo thing just going to he brushed under the carpet then? 

Mind the days politicians would have resigned for such shenanigans. Are people afraid to pull him because he's gay and they're afraid of getting themselves tied up in knots or is it more his mates in the media looking out for him?

Maybe people think he's entitled to a private life like the rest of us?

I'm wondering which rules don't apply to him, he deserves a skewering like any politician in a similar situation. It shows an absolutely shocking lack of judgement if nothing else. He's another one who thinks rules are for the plebs.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Armagh18 on December 13, 2022, 07:02:30 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2022, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 13, 2022, 06:31:16 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2022, 05:45:28 PM
So is the Leo thing just going to he brushed under the carpet then? 

Mind the days politicians would have resigned for such shenanigans. Are people afraid to pull him because he's gay and they're afraid of getting themselves tied up in knots or is it more his mates in the media looking out for him?

Maybe people think he's entitled to a private life like the rest of us?

I'm wondering which rules don't apply to him, he deserves a skewering like any politician in a similar situation. It shows an absolutely shocking lack of judgement if nothing else. He's another one who thinks rules are for the plebs.
Rules against shifting now?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on December 13, 2022, 07:16:14 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2022, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 13, 2022, 06:31:16 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2022, 05:45:28 PM
So is the Leo thing just going to he brushed under the carpet then? 

Mind the days politicians would have resigned for such shenanigans. Are people afraid to pull him because he's gay and they're afraid of getting themselves tied up in knots or is it more his mates in the media looking out for him?

Maybe people think he's entitled to a private life like the rest of us?

I'm wondering which rules don't apply to him, he deserves a skewering like any politician in a similar situation. It shows an absolutely shocking lack of judgement if nothing else. He's another one who thinks rules are for the plebs.

He was already a well known fornicator, it is all about Leo, not other people.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on December 13, 2022, 07:20:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 13, 2022, 07:16:14 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2022, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 13, 2022, 06:31:16 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2022, 05:45:28 PM
So is the Leo thing just going to he brushed under the carpet then? 

Mind the days politicians would have resigned for such shenanigans. Are people afraid to pull him because he's gay and they're afraid of getting themselves tied up in knots or is it more his mates in the media looking out for him?

Maybe people think he's entitled to a private life like the rest of us?

I'm wondering which rules don't apply to him, he deserves a skewering like any politician in a similar situation. It shows an absolutely shocking lack of judgement if nothing else. He's another one who thinks rules are for the plebs.

He was already a well known fornicator, it is all about Leo, not other people.

What's all about Leo?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: bennydorano on December 13, 2022, 07:36:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2022, 07:02:30 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2022, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on December 13, 2022, 06:31:16 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2022, 05:45:28 PM
So is the Leo thing just going to he brushed under the carpet then? 

Mind the days politicians would have resigned for such shenanigans. Are people afraid to pull him because he's gay and they're afraid of getting themselves tied up in knots or is it more his mates in the media looking out for him?

Maybe people think he's entitled to a private life like the rest of us?

I'm wondering which rules don't apply to him, he deserves a skewering like any politician in a similar situation. It shows an absolutely shocking lack of judgement if nothing else. He's another one who thinks rules are for the plebs.
Rules against shifting now?
When you're married or partnered up there are yeah. Shift away but if you're caught .....

My sources in Dublin tell me some younger members of the Gay community are delighted to see him brought down a peg or two.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on February 05, 2024, 06:45:18 PM
I see Fine Gael MEP Sean Kelly, a former president of the GAA - the largest All-Ireland association in the land - has taken to twitter to pay tribute to the DUP and to attack Mary Lou McDonald for speaking favourably about a United Ireland/border poll.

In the week after the British Government produced a Command Paper that was nothing but a love letter to the DUP and to unionism, which was openly contemptuous of Irishness, of Irish Unity and even went as far as to deny the existence of an All-Ireland economy, it's unsurprising but still absolutely galling from a northern nationalist perspective to hear such disgusting, partitionist commentary emanating yet again from an Irish Government figure - a government which, by right, we should be looking to to try to re-address the balance of the British Government's partisan, anti-nationalist rhetoric.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: imtommygunn on February 05, 2024, 06:49:44 PM
Have to say I found that post he made pretty disgusting. Said the dup deserved credit for swallowing their pride after how long of leaving us with no government. Really really disappointed to see this from someone who tbh you hoped for a lot better from.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: yellowcard on February 05, 2024, 07:39:47 PM
It was both surprising and disappointing that Sean Kelly, a former GAA president, seen fit to come out with those comments. It's like something you would have expected from Charlie Flanagan or John Bruton but it just shows how out of touch he actually is. Thankfully long gone are the days where we are not allowed to discuss the possibility of a border poll, even some Unionists are debating it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on February 06, 2024, 11:57:58 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on February 05, 2024, 07:39:47 PMIt was both surprising and disappointing that Sean Kelly, a former GAA president, seen fit to come out with those comments. It's like something you would have expected from Charlie Flanagan or John Bruton but it just shows how out of touch he actually is. Thankfully long gone are the days where we are not allowed to discuss the possibility of a border poll, even some Unionists are debating it.

Not one bit surprising. A west brit all his life in disguise as a GAA man.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 06, 2024, 12:47:30 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 06, 2024, 11:57:58 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on February 05, 2024, 07:39:47 PMIt was both surprising and disappointing that Sean Kelly, a former GAA president, seen fit to come out with those comments. It's like something you would have expected from Charlie Flanagan or John Bruton but it just shows how out of touch he actually is. Thankfully long gone are the days where we are not allowed to discuss the possibility of a border poll, even some Unionists are debating it.

Not one bit surprising. A west brit all his life in disguise as a GAA man.

Not sure if harping on about the inevitable border poll to 'wind' up unionists is a good tactic in fairness. Its coming and allowing the unionist to get a dig in or "rally the troops" is not a good thing. SF have played a blinder at letting the DUP and the rest shoot themselves in the foot time and time again since becoming the biggest party, let that continue.

Was at our club a number of times while president and never came across as a West Brit, though not a politician at the time,  I would have spoke to him GAA wise enough through the brief occasions that we met, think he was A hurling Kerry man if memory serves me right.

He did manage to blagg myself and cousin into the the free bar in Croke Park on two occasions, so he's not all bad ;D 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: trailer on February 06, 2024, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 06, 2024, 12:47:30 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 06, 2024, 11:57:58 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on February 05, 2024, 07:39:47 PMIt was both surprising and disappointing that Sean Kelly, a former GAA president, seen fit to come out with those comments. It's like something you would have expected from Charlie Flanagan or John Bruton but it just shows how out of touch he actually is. Thankfully long gone are the days where we are not allowed to discuss the possibility of a border poll, even some Unionists are debating it.

Not one bit surprising. A west brit all his life in disguise as a GAA man.

Not sure if harping on about the inevitable border poll to 'wind' up unionists is a good tactic in fairness. Its coming and allowing the unionist to get a dig in or "rally the troops" is not a good thing. SF have played a blinder at letting the DUP and the rest shoot themselves in the foot time and time again since becoming the biggest party, let that continue.

Was at our club a number of times while president and never came across as a West Brit, though not a politician at the time,  I would have spoke to him GAA wise enough through the brief occasions that we met, think he was A hurling Kerry man if memory serves me right.

He did manage to blagg myself and cousin into the the free bar in Croke Park on two occasions, so he's not all bad ;D 

Having aspirations of a UI are legitimate political views. The same as talking about safeguarding or copper-fasting our precious union. Unionists and others need to put on their big boy pants and debate it rather than saying it is hurting their feelings.

I have met Sean Kelly a good few times and he was nothing short of a gentleman every time. He is a great GAA man served the association very well through the Rugby / Soccer in Croke park debate.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on February 06, 2024, 01:02:28 PM
Or just say they're not interested.
But Sunak and Donaldson have a cheek telling SF leaders not to mention border poll or United Ireland.
The GFA hasn't gone away you know chaps.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Brendan on February 06, 2024, 09:58:53 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 06, 2024, 11:57:58 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on February 05, 2024, 07:39:47 PMIt was both surprising and disappointing that Sean Kelly, a former GAA president, seen fit to come out with those comments. It's like something you would have expected from Charlie Flanagan or John Bruton but it just shows how out of touch he actually is. Thankfully long gone are the days where we are not allowed to discuss the possibility of a border poll, even some Unionists are debating it.

Not one bit surprising. A west brit all his life in disguise as a GAA man.

Aren't there loads of West Brits in the GAA especially in the free state?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on February 06, 2024, 10:06:29 PM
Quote from: Brendan on February 06, 2024, 09:58:53 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 06, 2024, 11:57:58 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on February 05, 2024, 07:39:47 PMIt was both surprising and disappointing that Sean Kelly, a former GAA president, seen fit to come out with those comments. It's like something you would have expected from Charlie Flanagan or John Bruton but it just shows how out of touch he actually is. Thankfully long gone are the days where we are not allowed to discuss the possibility of a border poll, even some Unionists are debating it.

Not one bit surprising. A west brit all his life in disguise as a GAA man.

Aren't there loads of West Brits in the GAA especially in the free state?

Where's the Free State?

Yes there are, but not as many as in the 6 counties.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on February 06, 2024, 10:07:22 PM
No mention here of death of John Bruton. The best I can do is say nothing at all about that man.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on February 06, 2024, 11:06:41 PM
While I disagreed with him on many things, he led a government that brought in divorce after the previous FG/Labour gov lost that referendum in 1986. It felt a big thing emerging from the extremism of the Catholic Church. Ruari Quinn (Lab) in the government brought in the 12.5% corporate tax that went onto transform the Irish economy to this day. The Rainbow Coalition was a decent gov but short on personality that blundered getting re-elected, as couldn't connect with the people while Bertie was out kissing babies. RIP.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2024, 10:25:37 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 06, 2024, 11:06:41 PMWhile I disagreed with him on many things, he led a government that brought in divorce after the previous FG/Labour gov lost that referendum in 1986. It felt a big thing emerging from the extremism of the Catholic Church. Ruari Quinn (Lab) in the government brought in the 12.5% corporate tax that went onto transform the Irish economy to this day. The Rainbow Coalition was a decent gov but short on personality that blundered getting re-elected, as couldn't connect with the people while Bertie was out kissing babies. RIP.
Bertie was far more charismatic but he tore the arse out of it and when he dies the crash will overwhelm everything else.
Bruton is remembered in very positive terms. Just fancy that . 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on February 23, 2024, 05:55:38 PM
I see a man with strong connections to the blueshirts has been arrested in connection with 33m euro of crystal meth found in Cork port. I'm sure there will be a massive pile in from the nation's media like they would do for a certain other party.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: RedHand88 on March 20, 2024, 11:23:15 AM
Something big going on. Irish indo reporting the government will make an announcement at midday, been described as a "political earthquake"

Fg pulling out of the coalition? Leo stepping down?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on March 20, 2024, 11:42:45 AM
Varadkar stepping down, according to RTÉ.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2024, 11:42:57 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 20, 2024, 11:23:15 AMSomething big going on. Irish indo reporting the government will make an announcement at midday, been described as a "political earthquake"

Fg pulling out of the coalition? Leo stepping down?
Varadkar is stepping down
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2024, 11:43:30 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 20, 2024, 11:42:45 AMVaradkar stepping down, according to RTÉ.
Snap!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 20, 2024, 11:44:55 AM
Bejases😮
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Shamrock Shore on March 20, 2024, 11:54:24 AM
His heart hasn't been in it for a while.
Got the glamour trip to Biden over with so a good a time as any.

Paschal next Taoiseach.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2024, 11:54:31 AM
Presumably the polls don't look great. FG are losing 30% of ther TDS via retirement anyway.They have been in power since 2011. They probably need some time away from power and FF. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: johnnycool on March 20, 2024, 12:25:35 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on March 20, 2024, 11:54:24 AMHis heart hasn't been in it for a while.
Got the glamour trip to Biden over with so a good a time as any.

Paschal next Taoiseach.

Is Coveney well out of favour then?

Thought he was a decent operator when the Brexit shít was going down.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Orior on March 20, 2024, 12:31:43 PM
What next for Leo? My bet is game show host on british afternoon TV.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2024, 12:38:05 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 20, 2024, 12:31:43 PMWhat next for Leo? My bet is game show host on british afternoon TV.

Apparently he wants to train Armagh in penalty taking and he can't combine that with being Taoiseach because it is so time consuming
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2024, 12:39:59 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on March 20, 2024, 11:54:24 AMHis heart hasn't been in it for a while.
Got the glamour trip to Biden over with so a good a time as any.

Paschal next Taoiseach.
They should have a dance off.
I wonder what impact the referendum had on his decision.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mouview on March 20, 2024, 12:44:51 PM
Undoubtedly, his greatest error as Taoiseach was to give Boris Johnson a compromise deal on Brexit when they met in the Wirral that time. Tories were sinking fast without it and it allowed Johnson put through an agreement he subsequently tried to renege on and never had any intention of upholding.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 20, 2024, 01:01:09 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2024, 12:25:35 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on March 20, 2024, 11:54:24 AMHis heart hasn't been in it for a while.
Got the glamour trip to Biden over with so a good a time as any.

Paschal next Taoiseach.

Is Coveney well out of favour then?

Thought he was a decent operator when the Brexit shít was going down.
He was excellent on the Brexit idiocy but had a few dodgy moments last few years so has likely slipped down the pecking order
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: whitey on March 20, 2024, 01:08:08 PM
Hopefully he'll be replaced by someone with some common sense

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: joemamas on March 20, 2024, 01:25:06 PM
Rural Ireland will be upset,
I mean whatever is left of it. :-\
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Aaron Boone on March 20, 2024, 01:37:20 PM
Quote from: mouview on March 20, 2024, 12:44:51 PMUndoubtedly, his greatest error as Taoiseach was to give Boris Johnson a compromise deal on Brexit when they met in the Wirral that time. Tories were sinking fast without it and it allowed Johnson put through an agreement he subsequently tried to renege on and never had any intention of upholding.

I guess the main thing was no land border was agreed at that meeting.

But Brexit was/is the unsolvable conundrum. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Dubh driocht on March 20, 2024, 01:55:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 20, 2024, 12:38:05 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 20, 2024, 12:31:43 PMWhat next for Leo? My bet is game show host on british afternoon TV.

Apparently he wants to train Armagh in penalty taking and he can't combine that with being Taoiseach because it is so time consuming
Cruel but accurate
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: clarshack on March 20, 2024, 02:15:49 PM
Quote from: mouview on March 20, 2024, 12:44:51 PMUndoubtedly, his greatest error as Taoiseach was to give Boris Johnson a compromise deal on Brexit when they met in the Wirral that time. Tories were sinking fast without it and it allowed Johnson put through an agreement he subsequently tried to renege on and never had any intention of upholding.

Not the time he leaked a confidential document to his mate?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 20, 2024, 02:47:04 PM
They should do the right thing and call an election. This giving some random FG'er the post of Taoiseach is not acceptable in my eyes. The last thing he did (before his retirement) was call out the Yanks and explain Irelands position on Gaza and the commonality between Irelands history and that of Palestine. It was late coming but was a powerful contribution so fair play to him for that.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2024, 02:47:16 PM
Whoever takes over may inherit a poisoned chalice. Inflation is not over.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 20, 2024, 03:34:14 PM
Maybe Mossad has some dirt on him.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: yellowcard on March 20, 2024, 03:54:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 20, 2024, 02:47:16 PMWhoever takes over may inherit a poisoned chalice. Inflation is not over.

I'd say inflation is well down the list. Fixing the housing crisis and improving the health system is top priority. It's a more divided society than any other time I can remember and I think that although Varadkar had his strengths when it came to remaining strong on Brexit, he was largely a divisive figure and never had the likability factor about him. He came across as a fairly aloof character and definitely didn't connect with very many outside the capital.   
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 20, 2024, 04:03:14 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 20, 2024, 02:47:04 PMThey should do the right thing and call an election. This giving some random FG'er the post of Taoiseach is not acceptable in my eyes. The last thing he did (before his retirement) was call out the Yanks and explain Irelands position on Gaza and the commonality between Irelands history and that of Palestine. It was late coming but was a powerful contribution so fair play to him for that.
Won't the new FG leader will have to be elected Taoiseach by the Dáil?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 20, 2024, 04:18:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 20, 2024, 04:03:14 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 20, 2024, 02:47:04 PMThey should do the right thing and call an election. This giving some random FG'er the post of Taoiseach is not acceptable in my eyes. The last thing he did (before his retirement) was call out the Yanks and explain Irelands position on Gaza and the commonality between Irelands history and that of Palestine. It was late coming but was a powerful contribution so fair play to him for that.
Won't the new FG leader will have to be elected Taoiseach by the Dáil?

Yes but it is also clear from polls that people want a chance to vote. The rats are jumping ship in FG as they know a beating is coming. They need to get it over with now. An election is also needed to show these far right fucks that they have zero support.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 20, 2024, 04:24:20 PM
Unless FF or the Greens pull the plug we won't be having a GE for the best part of 12 months.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: johnnycool on March 20, 2024, 04:24:57 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on March 20, 2024, 03:54:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 20, 2024, 02:47:16 PMWhoever takes over may inherit a poisoned chalice. Inflation is not over.

I'd say inflation is well down the list. Fixing the housing crisis and improving the health system is top priority. It's a more divided society than any other time I can remember and I think that although Varadkar had his strengths when it came to remaining strong on Brexit, he was largely a divisive figure and never had the likability factor about him. He came across as a fairly aloof character and definitely didn't connect with very many outside the capital.   

The new FG leader could attempt to do a Rishi and say those x number of years they were in power and has nothing to do with this "new" leadership and you've a "plan" to fix all this shít...

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2024, 04:33:44 PM
His announcement reminded me of Klopp.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 20, 2024, 04:57:09 PM
Jumping before he was pushed?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: marty34 on March 20, 2024, 05:46:11 PM
There are about 10 FG TDs who are not standing again at the next election.  Maybe a few more to come.  Deserting the sinking ship.

They obviously see the writing on the wall.

Give the people a vote on it now.

Could be a woman - trying to outdo MLMD's little piece of history. 
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2024, 06:03:49 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 20, 2024, 04:57:09 PMJumping before he was pushed?
He obviously took the political temperature and got out while he could.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2024, 07:01:32 PM
Probably like that well know soccer manager.. just got tired and wants to chill out from all the crap!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Eire90 on March 20, 2024, 07:08:48 PM
are they terrified of the rise of the far right are they going to call early general election to minimise damage.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 20, 2024, 08:30:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 20, 2024, 02:47:16 PMWhoever takes over may inherit a poisoned chalice. Inflation is not over.

Inflation is down to 2.3%. It peaked at 9.6% in 2022.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2024, 09:32:03 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 20, 2024, 08:30:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 20, 2024, 02:47:16 PMWhoever takes over may inherit a poisoned chalice. Inflation is not over.

Inflation is down to 2.3%. It peaked at 9.6% in 2022.
Inflation peaked 3 times in the 1970s. The yield curve is still inverted and interest rates are still high. Inflation is very sticky.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Sportacus on March 21, 2024, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: mouview on March 20, 2024, 12:44:51 PMUndoubtedly, his greatest error as Taoiseach was to give Boris Johnson a compromise deal on Brexit when they met in the Wirral that time. Tories were sinking fast without it and it allowed Johnson put through an agreement he subsequently tried to renege on and never had any intention of upholding.
Are you saying you'd rather he had ignored the opportunity to lock down no hard border so that he could sink the Tories?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2024, 12:43:22 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 21, 2024, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: mouview on March 20, 2024, 12:44:51 PMUndoubtedly, his greatest error as Taoiseach was to give Boris Johnson a compromise deal on Brexit when they met in the Wirral that time. Tories were sinking fast without it and it allowed Johnson put through an agreement he subsequently tried to renege on and never had any intention of upholding.
Are you saying you'd rather he had ignored the opportunity to lock down no hard border so that he could sink the Tories?
I don't think that was a mistake. Boris Johnson walked into a trap. He couldn't reopen the border and he couldn't get a good deal.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2024, 12:45:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2024, 12:43:22 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 21, 2024, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: mouview on March 20, 2024, 12:44:51 PMUndoubtedly, his greatest error as Taoiseach was to give Boris Johnson a compromise deal on Brexit when they met in the Wirral that time. Tories were sinking fast without it and it allowed Johnson put through an agreement he subsequently tried to renege on and never had any intention of upholding.
Are you saying you'd rather he had ignored the opportunity to lock down no hard border so that he could sink the Tories?
I don't think that was a mistake. Boris Johnson walked into a trap. He couldn't reopen the border and he couldn't get a good deal.
The Irish diplomats played a blinder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cZe2ihEZO8
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on March 21, 2024, 12:50:45 PM
Whatever about his many other faults, Varadkar did well on Brexit and Brian Feeney (not typically a fan of Leo) got it right in his Irish News column. There was no votes really in the 26 for that and many don't realise the consequences if the Unionists and Tories got their way. He is of course well hated by most Unionists and British right for the part he played in essentially keeping North in the Single Market. The North not in the SM would have been disastrous for the island in many ways, particularly the agri-food sector.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2024, 01:40:15 PM
It looks like there won't even be a vote. Simon Harris looks like being crowned without a contest.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Armagh18 on March 21, 2024, 02:13:07 PM
Simple Simon. The f**king state of this country.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Sportacus on March 21, 2024, 02:21:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2024, 12:43:22 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 21, 2024, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: mouview on March 20, 2024, 12:44:51 PMUndoubtedly, his greatest error as Taoiseach was to give Boris Johnson a compromise deal on Brexit when they met in the Wirral that time. Tories were sinking fast without it and it allowed Johnson put through an agreement he subsequently tried to renege on and never had any intention of upholding.
Are you saying you'd rather he had ignored the opportunity to lock down no hard border so that he could sink the Tories?
I don't think that was a mistake. Boris Johnson walked into a trap. He couldn't reopen the border and he couldn't get a good deal.
Agree, but Johnson did what he does, made the best of a bad job by saying he'd "got Brexit done" and won an election on the back of it.  Varadkar was more than happy to see the open border secured - definitely not an error, never mind his greatest error, in my view.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: imtommygunn on March 21, 2024, 02:24:30 PM
Best thing he'd ever done rather than worst...

I never liked him at all. The phrase "if he were a lollipop he'd eat himself" always sprung to mind but he did ok with the Brexit stuff and he's spoke up more than most on Palestine. Always felt he was basically a tory.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: johnnycool on March 21, 2024, 02:44:07 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 21, 2024, 02:24:30 PMBest thing he'd ever done rather than worst...

I never liked him at all. The phrase "if he were a lollipop he'd eat himself" always sprung to mind but he did ok with the Brexit stuff and he's spoke up more than most on Palestine. Always felt he was basically a tory.

I think his Palestine speech may have played a part in his sudden resignation.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: imtommygunn on March 21, 2024, 02:48:34 PM
Wouldn't be overly surprised.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2024, 03:28:41 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 21, 2024, 02:21:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2024, 12:43:22 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 21, 2024, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: mouview on March 20, 2024, 12:44:51 PMUndoubtedly, his greatest error as Taoiseach was to give Boris Johnson a compromise deal on Brexit when they met in the Wirral that time. Tories were sinking fast without it and it allowed Johnson put through an agreement he subsequently tried to renege on and never had any intention of upholding.
Are you saying you'd rather he had ignored the opportunity to lock down no hard border so that he could sink the Tories?
I don't think that was a mistake. Boris Johnson walked into a trap. He couldn't reopen the border and he couldn't get a good deal.
Agree, but Johnson did what he does, made the best of a bad job by saying he'd "got Brexit done" and won an election on the back of it.  Varadkar was more than happy to see the open border secured - definitely not an error, never mind his greatest error, in my view.
Johnson is an opportunist who doesn't think strategically. He is now   a hasbeen. The institutions are up and running, the 2 women were promoting NI business in DC last week, the DUP have accepted reality, the tories are facing electoral meltdown and the border is safe.

It would have been hard to predict that in 2017.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: mouview on March 21, 2024, 07:51:44 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 21, 2024, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: mouview on March 20, 2024, 12:44:51 PMUndoubtedly, his greatest error as Taoiseach was to give Boris Johnson a compromise deal on Brexit when they met in the Wirral that time. Tories were sinking fast without it and it allowed Johnson put through an agreement he subsequently tried to renege on and never had any intention of upholding.
Are you saying you'd rather he had ignored the opportunity to lock down no hard border so that he could sink the Tories?

Tories were approaching meltdown at the time and falling asunder. They could neither go backwards or forwards. A good chance there may have been another referendum even. As Napoleon said, never interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2024, 10:57:45 PM
Harris is being lauded for his communication and his mastery of detail but the health service is a mess and he was the minister for a number of years. He may turn out to be another Brian Cowen.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Aaron Boone on March 21, 2024, 11:03:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2024, 03:28:41 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 21, 2024, 02:21:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2024, 12:43:22 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 21, 2024, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: mouview on March 20, 2024, 12:44:51 PMUndoubtedly, his greatest error as Taoiseach was to give Boris Johnson a compromise deal on Brexit when they met in the Wirral that time. Tories were sinking fast without it and it allowed Johnson put through an agreement he subsequently tried to renege on and never had any intention of upholding.
Are you saying you'd rather he had ignored the opportunity to lock down no hard border so that he could sink the Tories?
I don't think that was a mistake. Boris Johnson walked into a trap. He couldn't reopen the border and he couldn't get a good deal.
Agree, but Johnson did what he does, made the best of a bad job by saying he'd "got Brexit done" and won an election on the back of it.  Varadkar was more than happy to see the open border secured - definitely not an error, never mind his greatest error, in my view.
Johnson is an opportunist who doesn't think strategically. He is now   a hasbeen. The institutions are up and running, the 2 women were promoting NI business in DC last week, the DUP have accepted reality, the tories are facing electoral meltdown and the border is safe.

It would have been hard to predict that in 2017.



Though obviously no border at all is preferable rather than the current one being safe. But I'm nitpicking.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Bord na Mona man on March 21, 2024, 11:23:40 PM
Leo seemed a bit too aloof to appeal to Joe Public.
While he ticked the boxes of being gay and half-Indian, he was the wrong kind of gay for the liberal set.
On the other hand, for all the accusations of being a Tory, he didn't deliver anything in particular on his promises to those who got up early in the morning.

For all that, during Brexit, it was hilarious to see how much he drove Daily Mail, little Englander, Brexiteers up the wall. By just being unruffled and non-plussed by what was unfolding.
They really couldn't countenance a Paddy PM who didn't prostrate himself in front of John Bull.

And that was precisely the whole British negotiation strategy. Hammer out a deal with the EU and then renege on the Irish bits as they expected to be able to bully Eire.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Eire90 on March 21, 2024, 11:52:48 PM
harris took 15 rounds to get voted  in in wicklow
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 21, 2024, 11:54:00 PM
What's that got to do with the price of turnips?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Eire90 on March 21, 2024, 11:58:39 PM
it shows hes hardly the peoples choice
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 22, 2024, 12:18:32 AM
You obviously don't understand PR ::)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: RedHand88 on March 22, 2024, 06:47:03 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on March 21, 2024, 11:52:48 PMharris took 15 rounds to get voted  in in wicklow

Completely irrelevant. That's how PR-STV works. Fine Gael ran 3 candidates.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 22, 2024, 09:10:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2024, 10:57:45 PMHarris is being lauded for his communication and his mastery of detail but the health service is a mess and he was the minister for a number of years. He may turn out to be another Brian Cowen.
Tell me any Minister who was a success at Health.....
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: marty34 on March 22, 2024, 10:39:13 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 22, 2024, 09:10:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2024, 10:57:45 PMHarris is being lauded for his communication and his mastery of detail but the health service is a mess and he was the minister for a number of years. He may turn out to be another Brian Cowen.
Tell me any Minister who was a success at Health.....

Here comes the FG defender...right on cue.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 22, 2024, 11:04:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 22, 2024, 09:10:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2024, 10:57:45 PMHarris is being lauded for his communication and his mastery of detail but the health service is a mess and he was the minister for a number of years. He may turn out to be another Brian Cowen.
Tell me any Minister who was a success at Health.....
Health is a black hole because of rent seeking.
He is as mediocre as the rest of them. None of them understand the big picture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw_sPN6gBg8
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 22, 2024, 12:14:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 22, 2024, 10:39:13 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 22, 2024, 09:10:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2024, 10:57:45 PMHarris is being lauded for his communication and his mastery of detail but the health service is a mess and he was the minister for a number of years. He may turn out to be another Brian Cowen.
Tell me any Minister who was a success at Health.....

Here comes the FG defender...right on cue.
Blinkered shinnerbot wrong again.

I asked a question.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Captain Scarlet on March 22, 2024, 02:59:34 PM
Just logging on to make sure everyone is only saying nice things about Leo. Not wishing him the best in glowing terms seems to have ruffled many...
I can't get over the fact that while people were dying he was dropping Mean Girl quotes into speeches. That sums him up. He never was IN IT with the people and the facts laid bare are record homelessness, waiting lists and more.
Like I voted FG a few cycles back so not a blue shirt basher, but it's time for them to go. Josepha Madigan has jumped to. FG are going to be wiped out.

It's funny how many political journos are so biased against SF that they are somehow going nuts over it all and the FG people leaving is a sign of the toxic nature of public life. In fairness it's not easy but the full truth is that they are not keen on running because they don't fancy losing.

Labour will be wiped out with the Greens too. The only reason this Govt was ever brought about was to stop SF, but now it's game over.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: From the Bunker on March 22, 2024, 03:55:49 PM
You have to laugh at Elected talk of toxicity in Politics.

Of course there is. What do these people expect when they only answer to their superiors.

The Media give them a free pass.

There is no respect for them because they have no respect for a vast majority of their electorate.

Varadkar was a vile individual. The kind who'd look down his nose at most. He served his higher masters well the last decade or so.

He won't be remembered for anything. Correction -  he won't be remembered for anything good.

(https://www.shutterstock.com/image-vector/great-reset-world-economic-forum-260nw-1903484695.jpg)

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: joemamas on March 22, 2024, 05:08:34 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 22, 2024, 03:55:49 PMYou have to laugh at Elected talk of toxicity in Politics.

Of course there is. What do these people expect when they only answer to their superiors.

The Media give them a free pass.

There is no respect for them because they have no respect for a vast majority of their electorate.

Varadkar was a vile individual. The kind who'd look down his nose at most. He served his higher masters well the last decade or so.

He won't be remembered for anything. Correction -  he won't be remembered for anything good.

(https://www.shutterstock.com/image-vector/great-reset-world-economic-forum-260nw-1903484695.jpg)



+1

He should be forced to drive around 10 towns (under 1000 population)in each county in the west of Ireland, and have someone point out to him, the number of businesses that have shut shop in the last decade.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 22, 2024, 05:26:21 PM
Use them or lose them as we all drove off to Tesco, Dunnes, Aldi, Lidl etc.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 22, 2024, 05:36:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 22, 2024, 05:26:21 PMUse them or lose them as we all drove off to Tesco, Dunnes, Aldi, Lidl etc.

Exactly, the people in these small towns are driving to bigger ones to the above, or else getting deliveries from these or Amazon etc.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: marty34 on March 22, 2024, 05:40:09 PM
And the post offices and banks.

FFG hve ruined rural Ireland.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AustinPowers on March 22, 2024, 06:08:49 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on March 22, 2024, 02:59:34 PMJust logging on to make sure everyone is only saying nice things about Leo. Not wishing him the best in glowing terms seems to have ruffled many...
I can't get over the fact that while people were dying he was dropping Mean Girl quotes into speeches. That sums him up. He never was IN IT with the people and the facts laid bare are record homelessness, waiting lists and more.
Like I voted FG a few cycles back so not a blue shirt basher, but it's time for them to go. Josepha Madigan has jumped to. FG are going to be wiped out.

It's funny how many political journos are so biased against SF that they are somehow going nuts over it all and the FG people leaving is a sign of the toxic nature of public life. In fairness it's not easy but the full truth is that they are not keen on running because they don't fancy losing.

Labour will be wiped out with the Greens too. The only reason this Govt was ever brought about was to stop SF, but now it's game over.


Yep and yep
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 22, 2024, 06:14:59 PM
I think ye'll find that Sinn Féin were unable to form a Government in 2020.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 22, 2024, 09:18:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 22, 2024, 06:14:59 PMI think ye'll find that Sinn Féin were unable to form a Government in 2020.


Indeed because the other parties refused to accept the will of majority of people.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 22, 2024, 09:24:28 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 22, 2024, 09:18:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 22, 2024, 06:14:59 PMI think ye'll find that Sinn Féin were unable to form a Government in 2020.


Indeed because the other parties refused to accept the will of majority of people.

The majority of people voted for the parties in the government.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Armagh18 on March 22, 2024, 09:49:18 PM
FF/FG should have just merged at that point. 2 cheeks of the same arse. SF are flawed but couldn't be any worse than that shower.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 22, 2024, 10:30:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2024, 09:24:28 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 22, 2024, 09:18:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 22, 2024, 06:14:59 PMI think ye'll find that Sinn Féin were unable to form a Government in 2020.


Indeed because the other parties refused to accept the will of majority of people.

The majority of people voted for the parties in the government.

The largest party was frozen out by the status quo. Don't believe it ever happened before and it was 2 fingers to the electorate. As the man above said, the two of them should merge if that's the game they want to play. Ironically it's a hatred and fear of northern nationalists that is the driver so interesting that you find yourself defending it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on March 22, 2024, 10:37:47 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 22, 2024, 10:30:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2024, 09:24:28 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 22, 2024, 09:18:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 22, 2024, 06:14:59 PMI think ye'll find that Sinn Féin were unable to form a Government in 2020.


Indeed because the other parties refused to accept the will of majority of people.

The majority of people voted for the parties in the government.

The largest party was frozen out by the status quo. Don't believe it ever happened before and it was 2 fingers to the electorate. As the man above said, the two of them should merge if that's the game they want to play. Ironically it's a hatred and fear of northern nationalists that is the driver so interesting that you find yourself defending it.

Of course  it did. Fianna Fáil were usually the largest party with over 40% of vote when kept out by FG/Labour coalitions. In 1982 FF had 47% of the vote and were kept out. SF in contrast got 24% of vote.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 22, 2024, 10:48:38 PM
 The last house price crash wiped out FF. It is hard to believe now that they were the natural party of power in Ireland. FG have run out of ideas. There are too many people who do not benefit from the system now.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 12:07:27 PM
Another rat abandons ship. I'm sure it has nothing to do at all with the Ditch making enquiries into her dodgy mileage expenses.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0322/1439426-josepha-madigan/

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on March 23, 2024, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 12:07:27 PMAnother rat abandons ship. I'm sure it has nothing to do at all with the Ditch making enquiries into her dodgy mileage expenses.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0322/1439426-josepha-madigan/



She's no loss to national politics, but I wouldn't be using The Ditch as a reference for anything - Paddy Cosgrave is unhinged...
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 09:00:40 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 23, 2024, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 12:07:27 PMAnother rat abandons ship. I'm sure it has nothing to do at all with the Ditch making enquiries into her dodgy mileage expenses.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0322/1439426-josepha-madigan/



She's no loss to national politics, but I wouldn't be using The Ditch as a reference for anything - Paddy Cosgrave is unhinged...

Didn't realise Paddy Cosgrave was a reporter for the ditch.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on March 23, 2024, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 09:00:40 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 23, 2024, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 12:07:27 PMAnother rat abandons ship. I'm sure it has nothing to do at all with the Ditch making enquiries into her dodgy mileage expenses.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0322/1439426-josepha-madigan/



She's no loss to national politics, but I wouldn't be using The Ditch as a reference for anything - Paddy Cosgrave is unhinged...

Didn't realise Paddy Cosgrave was a reporter for the ditch.

Funds it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on March 24, 2024, 08:16:01 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 23, 2024, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 09:00:40 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 23, 2024, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 12:07:27 PMAnother rat abandons ship. I'm sure it has nothing to do at all with the Ditch making enquiries into her dodgy mileage expenses.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0322/1439426-josepha-madigan/



She's no loss to national politics, but I wouldn't be using The Ditch as a reference for anything - Paddy Cosgrave is unhinged...

Didn't realise Paddy Cosgrave was a reporter for the ditch.

Funds it.

So nobody should refer to any of the multiple cases of political corruption The Ditch has uncovered purely because you don't like who provides their funding? Free pass for the politicians involved?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 24, 2024, 08:23:47 AM
https://twitter.com/Editorialz/status/1771507449427640453
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 24, 2024, 08:40:40 AM
If this is replicated in a GE ......
Well have caretaker Governments for years

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/0324/1439650-polls-sinn-fein/
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 24, 2024, 09:41:42 AM
I heard on RTE that Simon Harris is going to bring Fine Gael back to its roots.
Presumably that  any politicl representative from the North who comes to Dublin looking for support will be told to f**k off, a batallion of fine gaelers will be raised to support the fascists in the Mediterranean   and that  the border will be closed from 2400 hours on Monday.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on March 24, 2024, 10:42:23 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 24, 2024, 08:16:01 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 23, 2024, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 09:00:40 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 23, 2024, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 12:07:27 PMAnother rat abandons ship. I'm sure it has nothing to do at all with the Ditch making enquiries into her dodgy mileage expenses.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0322/1439426-josepha-madigan/



She's no loss to national politics, but I wouldn't be using The Ditch as a reference for anything - Paddy Cosgrave is unhinged...

Didn't realise Paddy Cosgrave was a reporter for the ditch.

Funds it.

So nobody should refer to any of the multiple cases of political corruption The Ditch has uncovered purely because you don't like who provides their funding? Free pass for the politicians involved?

I would want it verified by another source before I'd give it any credence
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Captain Scarlet on March 24, 2024, 11:33:42 AM
Well you wouldn't want to be waiting for the Indo or Times to follow up on this.

Seemingly it's all SF fault and Simon is usehering in a new era of civility, once the others play nice. SF polioticians getting abuse doesn't ever get mentioned either.

Irish political discourse is so bad and so biased with these analysts. I think Harris is a decent fella, and he will bring back some like Kate O'Connell, etc.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 24, 2024, 12:11:21 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 24, 2024, 10:42:23 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 24, 2024, 08:16:01 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 23, 2024, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 09:00:40 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 23, 2024, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 12:07:27 PMAnother rat abandons ship. I'm sure it has nothing to do at all with the Ditch making enquiries into her dodgy mileage expenses.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0322/1439426-josepha-madigan/



She's no loss to national politics, but I wouldn't be using The Ditch as a reference for anything - Paddy Cosgrave is unhinged...

Didn't realise Paddy Cosgrave was a reporter for the ditch.

Funds it.

So nobody should refer to any of the multiple cases of political corruption The Ditch has uncovered purely because you don't like who provides their funding? Free pass for the politicians involved?

I would want it verified by another source before I'd give it any credence

Can you outline a couple of examples of reports by the Ditch that you've found to be untrustworthy or false?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 24, 2024, 01:11:32 PM
Michael ring is on Radio 1 now and saying FG have to dump the hate speech bill  and help businesses in difficulty.
The trans are going to get a land.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m1EFMoRFvY&t=29s
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on March 24, 2024, 01:25:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 24, 2024, 12:11:21 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 24, 2024, 10:42:23 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 24, 2024, 08:16:01 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 23, 2024, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 09:00:40 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 23, 2024, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 12:07:27 PMAnother rat abandons ship. I'm sure it has nothing to do at all with the Ditch making enquiries into her dodgy mileage expenses.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0322/1439426-josepha-madigan/



She's no loss to national politics, but I wouldn't be using The Ditch as a reference for anything - Paddy Cosgrave is unhinged...

Didn't realise Paddy Cosgrave was a reporter for the ditch.

Funds it.

So nobody should refer to any of the multiple cases of political corruption The Ditch has uncovered purely because you don't like who provides their funding? Free pass for the politicians involved?

I would want it verified by another source before I'd give it any credence

Can you outline a couple of examples of reports by the Ditch that you've found to be untrustworthy or false?

Well I don't read it, so I can't comment on most of their output.
But it's founded by Paddy Cosgrave and Chay Bowes, who now works for Russia Today. So I would have serious questions over their motives, aims and impartiality.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hound on March 25, 2024, 07:37:19 AM
Decent first speech by Harris:

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0324/1439725-harris-speech/

I don't find him a likeable character, would have much preferred Coveney or Donohue, but let's see what his policies and actions are.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hound on March 25, 2024, 07:44:43 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 25, 2024, 07:41:01 AMRemember when the media/twitterati said Sinn Fein wasn't a democratic party because Mary Lou was elected unopposed?

 ::)  ::)  ::)
Nope. Not in any media I read. But I try to avoid the crazies on 'social' media.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: RedHand88 on March 25, 2024, 07:58:11 AM
Quote from: Hound on March 25, 2024, 07:44:43 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 25, 2024, 07:41:01 AMRemember when the media/twitterati said Sinn Fein wasn't a democratic party because Mary Lou was elected unopposed?

 ::)  ::)  ::)
Nope. Not in any media I read. But I try to avoid the crazies on 'social' media.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/arid-20465629.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/arid-20465629.html)

https://www.michaelmcdowell.ie/sinn-f%C3%A9in-is-an-undemocratic-movement.html (https://www.michaelmcdowell.ie/sinn-f%C3%A9in-is-an-undemocratic-movement.html)

How about the Irish Examiner, or former Tánaiste Michael McDowell, just for starters?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 25, 2024, 08:10:07 AM
Quote from: Hound on March 25, 2024, 07:37:19 AMDecent first speech by Harris:

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0324/1439725-harris-speech/

I don't find him a likeable character, would have much preferred Coveney or Donohue, but let's see what his policies and actions are.

I heard he wants to take FG back to their roots, is that to fascism or does he not intend to go quite that far back?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 25, 2024, 08:13:42 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 24, 2024, 01:25:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 24, 2024, 12:11:21 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 24, 2024, 10:42:23 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 24, 2024, 08:16:01 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 23, 2024, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 09:00:40 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 23, 2024, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2024, 12:07:27 PMAnother rat abandons ship. I'm sure it has nothing to do at all with the Ditch making enquiries into her dodgy mileage expenses.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0322/1439426-josepha-madigan/



She's no loss to national politics, but I wouldn't be using The Ditch as a reference for anything - Paddy Cosgrave is unhinged...

Didn't realise Paddy Cosgrave was a reporter for the ditch.

Funds it.

So nobody should refer to any of the multiple cases of political corruption The Ditch has uncovered purely because you don't like who provides their funding? Free pass for the politicians involved?

I would want it verified by another source before I'd give it any credence

Can you outline a couple of examples of reports by the Ditch that you've found to be untrustworthy or false?

Well I don't read it, so I can't comment on most of their output.
But it's founded by Paddy Cosgrave and Chay Bowes, who now works for Russia Today. So I would have serious questions over their motives, aims and impartiality.

I see. Are you saying you are seeing the finger prints of Russian interference in the Ditch reports? For example false mileage claims being "stolen" from the taxpayer or favours been done for buddies/family in planning applications when a lot of people are not allowed build on their own farms. In my opinion the Ditch are doing an important service for the Irish people while the "mainstream" media are so in bed with government parties for funding and stories that they are turning a blind eye to all sorts of stuff (maybe a little bit like Russia)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hound on March 25, 2024, 08:44:07 AM
Thanks for that RH. I see the odd McDowell piece in the paper, i don't frequent his website.

McDowell's claim that SF was undemocratic wasn't because she was elected unopposed though.

If you believe some puppet master told Coveney, Donohue, Humohries, McEntee etc that they were not permitted to contest the election then that would be equivalent alright. Personally I don't think Harris is controlled by shawdowy puppet master figures. I think he really wants it and will make decisions (whether good or bad) himself and for his personal agenda of what he thinks would be successful. And he has persuaded most of his elected parliamentary colleagues to side with him. The other potential contenders were either not interested (SC and PD) or knew they would lose (everyone else).

Here's some of what McDowell said about SF (from the 2019 article that was linked):

I think Sinn Féin is still an undemocratic, marxist movement masquerading as a conventional political party. Most of its members are probably unaware of its true nature.

Let me pose two questions.

Why did Sinn Féin recently spend a large sum sending a delegation to the inauguration of the undemocratic marxist, Nicolas Maduro, as president of Venezuela?

How precisely was Michelle O'Neill chosen to succeed Martin McGuinness as leader of Sinn Féin in the North?

In the case of Maduro, the Provisional movement have long backed communist movements in that region. They sold their weapons technology to the Farc communists in neighbouring Colombia in exchange for millions of narco-dollars. They had, despite denials, a permanent representative in Castro's Cuba. The common thread was a belief that they were and are a revolutionary movement with a marxist orientation. Readers of An Phoblacht over the years will remember the constant stream of supportive articles for marxist revolutionary groups internationally.

It should come as absolutely no surprise that the party sent a delegation to Caracas to celebrate the subversion of democracy in what used to be one to Latin America's most liberal states.

This may not lie easily with the polished, bourgeois professional image which the Party seeks to create using Mary Lou McDonald and, until recently, the urbane Peadar Tóibín.

But the truth is that Sinn Féin is rigidly controlled by a small clique of Provo veterans who are puppet-masters in what appears to be a normal democratic party.

It was they who chose Michelle O'Neill. It is they who secured the unopposed election of Mary Lou as the party's Uachtarán. It is their network of commissars who impose order and discipline on the party's members. It is they who decide on strategy. It is they who will decide if and when the party resumes participation in the NI executive.

In true marxist style, the entire party is subject to what Lenin described as "democratic centralism".

Sinn Féin members of the Oireachtas do not choose their advisors, interns or secretaries. The party commissars make those decisions. By this means all vestiges of political privacy and autonomy are absent.

We are still somewhat in the dark as to whether the party confiscates its public representatives' earnings and allowances over certain average industrial wage thresholds to apply them to party purposes under the guise of a voluntary contribution to the support of the party.

Most Sinn Féin members, elected and un-elected, are outside the loop of decision-making. I do not believe for one minute that Mary Lou or Michelle is in charge of the party rather than the old gang in the backroom of the Felons' Club on the Andersonstown Road.

If the party does not make sufficient progress at the polls, either or both of them will receive a tap on the shoulder from the Felons' Club – not from the ordinary members.

Sinn Féin is not a democratic or republican party. It remains a carefully constructed façade for a small, manipulative and undemocratic clique with very different values.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Hound on March 25, 2024, 08:49:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 25, 2024, 08:10:07 AM
Quote from: Hound on March 25, 2024, 07:37:19 AMDecent first speech by Harris:

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0324/1439725-harris-speech/

I don't find him a likeable character, would have much preferred Coveney or Donohue, but let's see what his policies and actions are.

I heard he wants to take FG back to their roots, is that to fascism or does he not intend to go quite that far back?
Nope, you heard wrong.

Key bullet points for FG values / agenda.

Hope. Enterprise. Equality of Opportunity. Integrity. Security. An immediate ceasefire in Gaza. And I want this party to fight against populism and deliberate polarisation.


Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: bennydorano on March 25, 2024, 10:10:23 AM
Watched a brief clip of Harris's acceptance speech on the BBCNI news last night and as edited as I'm sure it was, he went straight into flag shagger mode, never a great sign.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 25, 2024, 10:28:21 AM
John McGuinness and Willie O'Dea are on Claire Byrne dumping on the hate crime bill.  WOD said that people who vote FF in the next election need to know what they are voting for.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 25, 2024, 10:29:49 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 25, 2024, 08:10:07 AM
Quote from: Hound on March 25, 2024, 07:37:19 AMDecent first speech by Harris:

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0324/1439725-harris-speech/

I don't find him a likeable character, would have much preferred Coveney or Donohue, but let's see what his policies and actions are.
They are going to dump the trans agenda

I heard he wants to take FG back to their roots, is that to fascism or does he not intend to go quite that far back?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 25, 2024, 10:30:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on March 25, 2024, 08:49:50 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 25, 2024, 08:10:07 AM
Quote from: Hound on March 25, 2024, 07:37:19 AMDecent first speech by Harris:

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0324/1439725-harris-speech/

I don't find him a likeable character, would have much preferred Coveney or Donohue, but let's see what his policies and actions are.

I heard he wants to take FG back to their roots, is that to fascism or does he not intend to go quite that far back?
Nope, you heard wrong.

Key bullet points for FG values / agenda.

Hope. Enterprise. Equality of Opportunity. Integrity. Security. An immediate ceasefire in Gaza. And I want this party to fight against populism and deliberate polarisation.




Simon Harris fighting Populism, thats a good one. Will he publish the fight on tiktok?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 25, 2024, 10:59:06 AM
O'Dea, McGuinness and Ring chasing the fascist vote!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: clarshack on March 25, 2024, 11:51:58 AM
Quote from: Hound on March 25, 2024, 08:44:07 AMThanks for that RH. I see the odd McDowell piece in the paper, i don't frequent his website.

McDowell's claim that SF was undemocratic wasn't because she was elected unopposed though.

If you believe some puppet master told Coveney, Donohue, Humohries, McEntee etc that they were not permitted to contest the election then that would be equivalent alright. Personally I don't think Harris is controlled by shawdowy puppet master figures. I think he really wants it and will make decisions (whether good or bad) himself and for his personal agenda of what he thinks would be successful. And he has persuaded most of his elected parliamentary colleagues to side with him. The other potential contenders were either not interested (SC and PD) or knew they would lose (everyone else).

Here's some of what McDowell said about SF (from the 2019 article that was linked):

I think Sinn Féin is still an undemocratic, marxist movement masquerading as a conventional political party. Most of its members are probably unaware of its true nature.

Let me pose two questions.

Why did Sinn Féin recently spend a large sum sending a delegation to the inauguration of the undemocratic marxist, Nicolas Maduro, as president of Venezuela?

How precisely was Michelle O'Neill chosen to succeed Martin McGuinness as leader of Sinn Féin in the North?

In the case of Maduro, the Provisional movement have long backed communist movements in that region. They sold their weapons technology to the Farc communists in neighbouring Colombia in exchange for millions of narco-dollars. They had, despite denials, a permanent representative in Castro's Cuba. The common thread was a belief that they were and are a revolutionary movement with a marxist orientation. Readers of An Phoblacht over the years will remember the constant stream of supportive articles for marxist revolutionary groups internationally.

It should come as absolutely no surprise that the party sent a delegation to Caracas to celebrate the subversion of democracy in what used to be one to Latin America's most liberal states.

This may not lie easily with the polished, bourgeois professional image which the Party seeks to create using Mary Lou McDonald and, until recently, the urbane Peadar Tóibín.

But the truth is that Sinn Féin is rigidly controlled by a small clique of Provo veterans who are puppet-masters in what appears to be a normal democratic party.

It was they who chose Michelle O'Neill. It is they who secured the unopposed election of Mary Lou as the party's Uachtarán. It is their network of commissars who impose order and discipline on the party's members. It is they who decide on strategy. It is they who will decide if and when the party resumes participation in the NI executive.

In true marxist style, the entire party is subject to what Lenin described as "democratic centralism".

Sinn Féin members of the Oireachtas do not choose their advisors, interns or secretaries. The party commissars make those decisions. By this means all vestiges of political privacy and autonomy are absent.

We are still somewhat in the dark as to whether the party confiscates its public representatives' earnings and allowances over certain average industrial wage thresholds to apply them to party purposes under the guise of a voluntary contribution to the support of the party.

Most Sinn Féin members, elected and un-elected, are outside the loop of decision-making. I do not believe for one minute that Mary Lou or Michelle is in charge of the party rather than the old gang in the backroom of the Felons' Club on the Andersonstown Road.

If the party does not make sufficient progress at the polls, either or both of them will receive a tap on the shoulder from the Felons' Club – not from the ordinary members.

Sinn Féin is not a democratic or republican party. It remains a carefully constructed façade for a small, manipulative and undemocratic clique with very different values.

He pretty much nailed it.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: marty34 on March 25, 2024, 11:58:22 AM
And who's this lad Mc Dowell?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Armagh18 on March 25, 2024, 12:37:07 PM
Jesus that Harris fella is hard to listen to. Something about him, actually worse than Leo.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 25, 2024, 01:27:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 25, 2024, 11:58:22 AMAnd who's this lad Mc Dowell?

A FG w**ker that was rejected by the voters and got a comfy number in the senate as his buddies look after their cronies.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: snoopdog on March 25, 2024, 01:29:08 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2024, 12:37:07 PMJesus that Harris fella is hard to listen to. Something about him, actually worse than Leo.
He reminds me of Sean Thornton from circle of friends.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: whitey on March 25, 2024, 01:36:31 PM
He reminds me of the dentist from Love/Hate
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: johnnycool on March 25, 2024, 04:49:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 25, 2024, 01:27:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 25, 2024, 11:58:22 AMAnd who's this lad Mc Dowell?

A FG w**ker that was rejected by the voters and got a comfy number in the senate as his buddies look after their cronies.

Is he?

It's not the legendary Progressive Democrat who was far more right wing than any FG'er, is it?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 25, 2024, 06:04:01 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 25, 2024, 04:49:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 25, 2024, 01:27:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 25, 2024, 11:58:22 AMAnd who's this lad Mc Dowell?

A FG w**ker that was rejected by the voters and got a comfy number in the senate as his buddies look after their cronies.

Is he?

It's not the legendary Progressive Democrat who was far more right wing than any FG'er, is it?

Same DNA but yes he was in both
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 25, 2024, 06:09:31 PM
This is what passes as mainstream media reporting today from the head and a half Fionnán Sheahan

Comment
Fionnán Sheahan: TikTok taoiseach-elect Simon Harris rallies the Blueshirts as he vows to reconnect Fine Gael with the people – and even has a pop at Provos

Rallies the blueshirts (Fascists of yesteryear) and has a pop at Provos who don't exist anymore. And some wonder about the ditch?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 25, 2024, 06:33:31 PM
Army Council disband recently?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 25, 2024, 06:57:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 25, 2024, 06:33:31 PMArmy Council disband recently?

No not recently, a long time ago. Michael Collins is also dead in case you were wondering
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 25, 2024, 07:42:50 PM
You'd better tell the Secuurty Services and all the other political parties when the Army Council stood down ;)  ;D
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on March 26, 2024, 10:05:53 AM
Quote from: Hound on March 25, 2024, 08:44:07 AMThanks for that RH. I see the odd McDowell piece in the paper, i don't frequent his website.

McDowell's claim that SF was undemocratic wasn't because she was elected unopposed though.

If you believe some puppet master told Coveney, Donohue, Humohries, McEntee etc that they were not permitted to contest the election then that would be equivalent alright. Personally I don't think Harris is controlled by shawdowy puppet master figures. I think he really wants it and will make decisions (whether good or bad) himself and for his personal agenda of what he thinks would be successful. And he has persuaded most of his elected parliamentary colleagues to side with him. The other potential contenders were either not interested (SC and PD) or knew they would lose (everyone else).

Here's some of what McDowell said about SF (from the 2019 article that was linked):

I think Sinn Féin is still an undemocratic, marxist movement masquerading as a conventional political party. Most of its members are probably unaware of its true nature.

Let me pose two questions.

Why did Sinn Féin recently spend a large sum sending a delegation to the inauguration of the undemocratic marxist, Nicolas Maduro, as president of Venezuela?

How precisely was Michelle O'Neill chosen to succeed Martin McGuinness as leader of Sinn Féin in the North?

In the case of Maduro, the Provisional movement have long backed communist movements in that region. They sold their weapons technology to the Farc communists in neighbouring Colombia in exchange for millions of narco-dollars. They had, despite denials, a permanent representative in Castro's Cuba. The common thread was a belief that they were and are a revolutionary movement with a marxist orientation. Readers of An Phoblacht over the years will remember the constant stream of supportive articles for marxist revolutionary groups internationally.

It should come as absolutely no surprise that the party sent a delegation to Caracas to celebrate the subversion of democracy in what used to be one to Latin America's most liberal states.

This may not lie easily with the polished, bourgeois professional image which the Party seeks to create using Mary Lou McDonald and, until recently, the urbane Peadar Tóibín.

But the truth is that Sinn Féin is rigidly controlled by a small clique of Provo veterans who are puppet-masters in what appears to be a normal democratic party.

It was they who chose Michelle O'Neill. It is they who secured the unopposed election of Mary Lou as the party's Uachtarán. It is their network of commissars who impose order and discipline on the party's members. It is they who decide on strategy. It is they who will decide if and when the party resumes participation in the NI executive.

In true marxist style, the entire party is subject to what Lenin described as "democratic centralism".

Sinn Féin members of the Oireachtas do not choose their advisors, interns or secretaries. The party commissars make those decisions. By this means all vestiges of political privacy and autonomy are absent.

We are still somewhat in the dark as to whether the party confiscates its public representatives' earnings and allowances over certain average industrial wage thresholds to apply them to party purposes under the guise of a voluntary contribution to the support of the party.

Most Sinn Féin members, elected and un-elected, are outside the loop of decision-making. I do not believe for one minute that Mary Lou or Michelle is in charge of the party rather than the old gang in the backroom of the Felons' Club on the Andersonstown Road.

If the party does not make sufficient progress at the polls, either or both of them will receive a tap on the shoulder from the Felons' Club – not from the ordinary members.

Sinn Féin is not a democratic or republican party. It remains a carefully constructed façade for a small, manipulative and undemocratic clique with very different values.

You've blown the whole thing wide open, Hound.

(https://werunandride.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/tinfoil-hat-guy.jpg)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: tonto1888 on March 26, 2024, 01:14:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 25, 2024, 08:44:07 AMThanks for that RH. I see the odd McDowell piece in the paper, i don't frequent his website.

McDowell's claim that SF was undemocratic wasn't because she was elected unopposed though.

If you believe some puppet master told Coveney, Donohue, Humohries, McEntee etc that they were not permitted to contest the election then that would be equivalent alright. Personally I don't think Harris is controlled by shawdowy puppet master figures. I think he really wants it and will make decisions (whether good or bad) himself and for his personal agenda of what he thinks would be successful. And he has persuaded most of his elected parliamentary colleagues to side with him. The other potential contenders were either not interested (SC and PD) or knew they would lose (everyone else).

Here's some of what McDowell said about SF (from the 2019 article that was linked):

I think Sinn Féin is still an undemocratic, marxist movement masquerading as a conventional political party. Most of its members are probably unaware of its true nature.

Let me pose two questions.

Why did Sinn Féin recently spend a large sum sending a delegation to the inauguration of the undemocratic marxist, Nicolas Maduro, as president of Venezuela?

How precisely was Michelle O'Neill chosen to succeed Martin McGuinness as leader of Sinn Féin in the North?

In the case of Maduro, the Provisional movement have long backed communist movements in that region. They sold their weapons technology to the Farc communists in neighbouring Colombia in exchange for millions of narco-dollars. They had, despite denials, a permanent representative in Castro's Cuba. The common thread was a belief that they were and are a revolutionary movement with a marxist orientation. Readers of An Phoblacht over the years will remember the constant stream of supportive articles for marxist revolutionary groups internationally.

It should come as absolutely no surprise that the party sent a delegation to Caracas to celebrate the subversion of democracy in what used to be one to Latin America's most liberal states.

This may not lie easily with the polished, bourgeois professional image which the Party seeks to create using Mary Lou McDonald and, until recently, the urbane Peadar Tóibín.

But the truth is that Sinn Féin is rigidly controlled by a small clique of Provo veterans who are puppet-masters in what appears to be a normal democratic party.

It was they who chose Michelle O'Neill. It is they who secured the unopposed election of Mary Lou as the party's Uachtarán. It is their network of commissars who impose order and discipline on the party's members. It is they who decide on strategy. It is they who will decide if and when the party resumes participation in the NI executive.

In true marxist style, the entire party is subject to what Lenin described as "democratic centralism".

Sinn Féin members of the Oireachtas do not choose their advisors, interns or secretaries. The party commissars make those decisions. By this means all vestiges of political privacy and autonomy are absent.

We are still somewhat in the dark as to whether the party confiscates its public representatives' earnings and allowances over certain average industrial wage thresholds to apply them to party purposes under the guise of a voluntary contribution to the support of the party.

Most Sinn Féin members, elected and un-elected, are outside the loop of decision-making. I do not believe for one minute that Mary Lou or Michelle is in charge of the party rather than the old gang in the backroom of the Felons' Club on the Andersonstown Road.

If the party does not make sufficient progress at the polls, either or both of them will receive a tap on the shoulder from the Felons' Club – not from the ordinary members.

Sinn Féin is not a democratic or republican party. It remains a carefully constructed façade for a small, manipulative and undemocratic clique with very different values.

LOL. Am I reading about SF or the Nazi Party here?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Eire90 on March 26, 2024, 02:59:54 PM
fine gael and the establishment about to bin the hate speech looks like they are terrified of people rising up
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: From the Bunker on March 26, 2024, 03:33:09 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on March 26, 2024, 02:59:54 PMfine gael and the establishment about to bin the hate speech looks like they are terrified of people rising up

Hate speech is like a Durable relationship. You can interpret anything as a durable relationship and you can interpret anything as Hate Speech.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 26, 2024, 04:53:43 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 26, 2024, 03:33:09 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on March 26, 2024, 02:59:54 PMfine gael and the establishment about to bin the hate speech looks like they are terrified of people rising up

Hate speech is like a Durable relationship. You can interpret anything as a durable relationship and you can interpret anything as Hate Speech.
Hate speech has to be defined and the trans lobby, the people behind "durable relationship",  kept it as vague as possible..
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 26, 2024, 11:19:36 PM
https://www.ontheditch.com/garda-suspended-for-bike-loan/

It all comes out in the end, at least when some media outlets bother to look.

I'm sure most of you wondered by a Garda who gave a bike to a homeless man was suspended for years.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Eire90 on March 27, 2024, 05:17:41 AM
Cork Fianna Fáil councillor leaves to run as independent, citing failure to listen to 'ordinary people'
William O'Leary is third councillor in recent weeks to depart in the wake of asylum seeker housing criticism
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: gallsman on March 27, 2024, 07:26:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 25, 2024, 11:58:22 AMAnd who's this lad Mc Dowell?

Christ alive.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Eire90 on March 27, 2024, 07:48:00 AM
are politicians to be protected under this hate bill if someone calls fine gael scum would they be locked up


ohhhhhhhhh if someone in the north calls simon harris a nasty name i assuming they cant do shit.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: marty34 on March 27, 2024, 12:00:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 27, 2024, 07:26:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 25, 2024, 11:58:22 AMAnd who's this lad Mc Dowell?

Christ alive.

Lol..exactly, who is he?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: gallsman on March 27, 2024, 12:03:31 PM
Former AG
Former Minister for Justice
Former Tánaiste
Long time TD, current senator

Most importantly, massive gobshite. I've always thought of him as the southern, Fenian Jim Allister. Sees the 'ra everywhere he looks.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: marty34 on March 27, 2024, 12:09:48 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 27, 2024, 12:03:31 PMFormer AG
Former Minister for Justice
Former Tánaiste
Long time TD, current senator

Most importantly, massive gobshite. I've always thought of him as the southern, Fenian Jim Allister. Sees the 'ra everywhere he looks.

Ahh, voters rejected him then a 'job for the boys' case.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on March 27, 2024, 12:16:54 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 27, 2024, 12:09:48 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 27, 2024, 12:03:31 PMFormer AG
Former Minister for Justice
Former Tánaiste
Long time TD, current senator

Most importantly, massive gobshite. I've always thought of him as the southern, Fenian Jim Allister. Sees the 'ra everywhere he looks.

Ahh, voters rejected him then a 'job for the boys' case.

Never liked him. But he was one of the leading voices - if not the mastermind - of the No campaign on the changes to the referendum. There's a significant base that would be aligned with his views on many issues.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 27, 2024, 12:25:06 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 27, 2024, 12:03:31 PMFormer AG
Former Minister for Justice
Former Tánaiste
Long time TD, current senator

Most importantly, massive gobshite. I've always thought of him as the southern, Fenian Jim Allister. Sees the 'ra everywhere he looks.
He is vehemently anti SF. He is the Sunday Independent in human form on this issue.
John Bruton would also have been anti violence but more pragmatic
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Tubberman on March 27, 2024, 01:26:39 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 27, 2024, 12:16:54 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 27, 2024, 12:09:48 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 27, 2024, 12:03:31 PMFormer AG
Former Minister for Justice
Former Tánaiste
Long time TD, current senator

Most importantly, massive gobshite. I've always thought of him as the southern, Fenian Jim Allister. Sees the 'ra everywhere he looks.

Ahh, voters rejected him then a 'job for the boys' case.

Never liked him. But he was one of the leading voices - if not the mastermind - of the No campaign on the changes to the referendum. There's a significant base that would be aligned with his views on many issues.

Yes, I worked with a couple of people who said "If McDowell is against it, that's enough reason to vote Yes".
Thankfully most people listened to what he was actually saying and realised he made a lot of good points.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Eire90 on March 27, 2024, 01:45:45 PM
Harris faces uphill battle to secure Independents' support in key taoiseach vote
Several Independent TDs who have previously supported the government have indicated to that they either won't support Harris in the vote for Taoiseach
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 02:05:48 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on March 27, 2024, 01:45:45 PMHarris faces uphill battle to secure Independents' support in key taoiseach vote
Several Independent TDs who have previously supported the government have indicated to that they either won't support Harris in the vote for Taoiseach

Thats code for "We want more promises for our area so we can get elected in next GE if you want our support"
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 27, 2024, 02:38:25 PM
Usually is alright.
Lowry, Naughten and Berry will vote for Harris.
Lefty Indies, Nolan, Harkin, Healy Raes, Matty McFascist, Verona Murphy, the 3 Independent Independents will vote against.

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: whitey on March 27, 2024, 03:23:55 PM
Whether you like or dislike McDowell he argued points of law as it pertained to the failed referendums and what he said made all the sense in the world.

The govt tried to pull a fast one and it cost Varadkar his job

If I were to hazard a guess, "far right" (by the standards of this board) will get somewhere between 15-20% of first preference votes in the next General Election



Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: marty34 on March 27, 2024, 03:34:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 27, 2024, 03:23:55 PMWhether you like or dislike McDowell he argued points of law as it pertained to the failed referendums and what he said made all the sense in the world.

The govt tried to pull a fast one and it cost Varadkar his job

If I were to hazard a guess, "far right" (by the standards of this board) will get somewhere between 15-20% of first preference votes in the next General Election





I'd say similar all over Europe.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: J70 on March 27, 2024, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 27, 2024, 12:00:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 27, 2024, 07:26:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 25, 2024, 11:58:22 AMAnd who's this lad Mc Dowell?

Christ alive.

Lol..exactly, who is he?

I've been on this board a long time, but I never really felt like I was getting old before! ;D

Never had much issue with McDowell or the PDs myself. I liked their social liberalism, and Ireland badly needed a voice for economic liberalism at that time.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: gallsman on March 27, 2024, 04:52:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 27, 2024, 03:23:55 PMIf I were to hazard a guess, "far right" (by the standards of this board) will get somewhere between 15-20% of first preference votes in the next General Election

The far right will get nowhere near 20%. They'll do well to get near 5%. Not that you'd have a clue to begin with. Michael McDowell is far right.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: gallsman on March 27, 2024, 04:54:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 27, 2024, 12:09:48 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 27, 2024, 12:03:31 PMFormer AG
Former Minister for Justice
Former Tánaiste
Long time TD, current senator

Most importantly, massive gobshite. I've always thought of him as the southern, Fenian Jim Allister. Sees the 'ra everywhere he looks.

Ahh, voters rejected him then a 'job for the boys' case.

No, he was elected. Twice. For the university constituency it must be said, but elected nonetheless.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 27, 2024, 03:23:55 PMWhether you like or dislike McDowell he argued points of law as it pertained to the failed referendums and what he said made all the sense in the world.

The govt tried to pull a fast one and it cost Varadkar his job

If I were to hazard a guess, "far right" (by the standards of this board) will get somewhere between 15-20% of first preference votes in the next General Election





Whitey, you might as well ask a dog to estimate how far it is to the moon than ask you to estimate first preference in votes in a southern election from America. I would say max 3% and will get no one elected as only the brain dead would vote for them and no one will transfer to them.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: From the Bunker on March 27, 2024, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 27, 2024, 03:23:55 PMWhether you like or dislike McDowell he argued points of law as it pertained to the failed referendums and what he said made all the sense in the world.

The govt tried to pull a fast one and it cost Varadkar his job

If I were to hazard a guess, "far right" (by the standards of this board) will get somewhere between 15-20% of first preference votes in the next General Election





Whitey, you might as well ask a dog to estimate how far it is to the moon than ask you to estimate first preference in votes in a southern election from America. I would say max 3% and will get no one elected as only the brain dead would vote for them and no one will transfer to them.

There are are large cohort of people who are not ''Far Right'' and all that jargon who will vote for certain principles these candidates stand for. There is a huge disconnect between the Major Parties and the Electorate. There will be many who will privately do a rebellious vote.

Sinn Fein are in bother. They have lost ground in the many disadvantaged areas they would have been sailing through.

SF are no longer seen as an alternative for change, 

I know I won't be voting for FF/FG/SF/Greens.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 09:03:55 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 27, 2024, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 27, 2024, 03:23:55 PMWhether you like or dislike McDowell he argued points of law as it pertained to the failed referendums and what he said made all the sense in the world.

The govt tried to pull a fast one and it cost Varadkar his job

If I were to hazard a guess, "far right" (by the standards of this board) will get somewhere between 15-20% of first preference votes in the next General Election





Whitey, you might as well ask a dog to estimate how far it is to the moon than ask you to estimate first preference in votes in a southern election from America. I would say max 3% and will get no one elected as only the brain dead would vote for them and no one will transfer to them.

There are are large cohort of people who are not ''Far Right'' and all that jargon who will vote for certain principles these candidates stand for. There is a huge disconnect between the Major Parties and the Electorate. There will be many who will privately do a rebellious vote.

Sinn Fein are in bother. They have lost ground in the many disadvantaged areas they would have been sailing through.

SF are no longer seen as an alternative for change

I know I won't be voting for FF/FG/SF/Greens.

By you.

There's always the social democrats, independents who'll be far right if you want them to this election and far left the next one. Whatever suits. Then you can vote for the inbreds in the Far right parties so still plenty of choice for you.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 27, 2024, 09:13:34 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 27, 2024, 03:23:55 PMWhether you like or dislike McDowell he argued points of law as it pertained to the failed referendums and what he said made all the sense in the world.

The govt tried to pull a fast one and it cost Varadkar his job

If I were to hazard a guess, "far right" (by the standards of this board) will get somewhere between 15-20% of first preference votes in the next General Election





Whitey, you might as well ask a dog to estimate how far it is to the moon than ask you to estimate first preference in votes in a southern election from America. I would say max 3% and will get no one elected as only the brain dead would vote for them and no one will transfer to them.
I wouldn't use the board as the basis for any political conclusion
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: From the Bunker on March 27, 2024, 09:20:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 09:03:55 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 27, 2024, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 27, 2024, 03:23:55 PMWhether you like or dislike McDowell he argued points of law as it pertained to the failed referendums and what he said made all the sense in the world.

The govt tried to pull a fast one and it cost Varadkar his job

If I were to hazard a guess, "far right" (by the standards of this board) will get somewhere between 15-20% of first preference votes in the next General Election





Whitey, you might as well ask a dog to estimate how far it is to the moon than ask you to estimate first preference in votes in a southern election from America. I would say max 3% and will get no one elected as only the brain dead would vote for them and no one will transfer to them.

There are are large cohort of people who are not ''Far Right'' and all that jargon who will vote for certain principles these candidates stand for. There is a huge disconnect between the Major Parties and the Electorate. There will be many who will privately do a rebellious vote.

Sinn Fein are in bother. They have lost ground in the many disadvantaged areas they would have been sailing through.

SF are no longer seen as an alternative for change

I know I won't be voting for FF/FG/SF/Greens.

By you.

There's always the social democrats, independents who'll be far right if you want them to this election and far left the next one. Whatever suits. Then you can vote for the inbreds in the Far right parties so still plenty of choice for you.

I don't have much time for the Far Right parties, but calling them inbreeds doesn't put those who call them that in a good light.
Sinn Fein have proven to be one of the weakest major opposition parties in a long time. Voting for them will be more of the same. Sinn Fein I'm afraid have lost their way. I suppose this was going to happen when there was no Cause to fight for anymore, and now they've naturally fallen in with the pack.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: whitey on March 27, 2024, 09:30:52 PM
I guess it depends on what your definition of a far right party is

Some people regard Aontu as far right

Some people regard Aontu as center left

How would people on here categorize them?

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: marty34 on March 27, 2024, 09:38:32 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 27, 2024, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 27, 2024, 03:23:55 PMWhether you like or dislike McDowell he argued points of law as it pertained to the failed referendums and what he said made all the sense in the world.

The govt tried to pull a fast one and it cost Varadkar his job

If I were to hazard a guess, "far right" (by the standards of this board) will get somewhere between 15-20% of first preference votes in the next General Election





Whitey, you might as well ask a dog to estimate how far it is to the moon than ask you to estimate first preference in votes in a southern election from America. I would say max 3% and will get no one elected as only the brain dead would vote for them and no one will transfer to them.

There are are large cohort of people who are not ''Far Right'' and all that jargon who will vote for certain principles these candidates stand for. There is a huge disconnect between the Major Parties and the Electorate. There will be many who will privately do a rebellious vote.

Sinn Fein are in bother. They have lost ground in the many disadvantaged areas they would have been sailing through.

SF are no longer seen as an alternative for change, 

I know I won't be voting for FF/FG/SF/Greens.

I think you're right. SF need to ask the hard questions on why, according to the recent opinion polls, that they're dropping 2 or 3 points.

Why are FG TD's opting out in their droves?

Why are FF lads going independent?

I think there'll be a good block of independents in the locals in early June.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 09:42:32 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 27, 2024, 09:20:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 09:03:55 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 27, 2024, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 27, 2024, 03:23:55 PMWhether you like or dislike McDowell he argued points of law as it pertained to the failed referendums and what he said made all the sense in the world.

The govt tried to pull a fast one and it cost Varadkar his job

If I were to hazard a guess, "far right" (by the standards of this board) will get somewhere between 15-20% of first preference votes in the next General Election





Whitey, you might as well ask a dog to estimate how far it is to the moon than ask you to estimate first preference in votes in a southern election from America. I would say max 3% and will get no one elected as only the brain dead would vote for them and no one will transfer to them.

There are are large cohort of people who are not ''Far Right'' and all that jargon who will vote for certain principles these candidates stand for. There is a huge disconnect between the Major Parties and the Electorate. There will be many who will privately do a rebellious vote.

Sinn Fein are in bother. They have lost ground in the many disadvantaged areas they would have been sailing through.

SF are no longer seen as an alternative for change

I know I won't be voting for FF/FG/SF/Greens.

By you.

There's always the social democrats, independents who'll be far right if you want them to this election and far left the next one. Whatever suits. Then you can vote for the inbreds in the Far right parties so still plenty of choice for you.

I don't have much time for the Far Right parties, but calling them inbreeds doesn't put those who call them that in a good light.
Sinn Fein have proven to be one of the weakest major opposition parties in a long time. Voting for them will be more of the same. Sinn Fein I'm afraid have lost their way. I suppose this was going to happen when there was no Cause to fight for anymore, and now they've naturally fallen in with the pack.

Inbreds was quite restrained. Good for nothing useless cnuts without a braincell between them. They deserve nothing but ridicule and to be bet of the streets wherever they go. How's that.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: weareros on March 27, 2024, 10:03:15 PM
Mary Lou now calling for Ireland to opt out of EU Migration Pact. The winds are blowing to the right and SF want their own far right vote back. Farage did always like them.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Eire90 on March 28, 2024, 08:19:41 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 09:03:55 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 27, 2024, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 27, 2024, 03:23:55 PMWhether you like or dislike McDowell he argued points of law as it pertained to the failed referendums and what he said made all the sense in the world.

The govt tried to pull a fast one and it cost Varadkar his job

If I were to hazard a guess, "far right" (by the standards of this board) will get somewhere between 15-20% of first preference votes in the next General Election





Whitey, you might as well ask a dog to estimate how far it is to the moon than ask you to estimate first preference in votes in a southern election from America. I would say max 3% and will get no one elected as only the brain dead would vote for them and no one will transfer to them.

There are are large cohort of people who are not ''Far Right'' and all that jargon who will vote for certain principles these candidates stand for. There is a huge disconnect between the Major Parties and the Electorate. There will be many who will privately do a rebellious vote.

Sinn Fein are in bother. They have lost ground in the many disadvantaged areas they would have been sailing through.

SF are no longer seen as an alternative for change

I know I won't be voting for FF/FG/SF/Greens.

By you.

There's always the social democrats, independents who'll be far right if you want them to this election and far left the next one. Whatever suits. Then you can vote for the inbreds in the Far right parties so still plenty of choice for you.
Quote from: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 09:42:32 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 27, 2024, 09:20:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 09:03:55 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 27, 2024, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 27, 2024, 06:47:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on March 27, 2024, 03:23:55 PMWhether you like or dislike McDowell he argued points of law as it pertained to the failed referendums and what he said made all the sense in the world.

The govt tried to pull a fast one and it cost Varadkar his job

If I were to hazard a guess, "far right" (by the standards of this board) will get somewhere between 15-20% of first preference votes in the next General Election





Whitey, you might as well ask a dog to estimate how far it is to the moon than ask you to estimate first preference in votes in a southern election from America. I would say max 3% and will get no one elected as only the brain dead would vote for them and no one will transfer to them.

There are are large cohort of people who are not ''Far Right'' and all that jargon who will vote for certain principles these candidates stand for. There is a huge disconnect between the Major Parties and the Electorate. There will be many who will privately do a rebellious vote.

Sinn Fein are in bother. They have lost ground in the many disadvantaged areas they would have been sailing through.

SF are no longer seen as an alternative for change

I know I won't be voting for FF/FG/SF/Greens.

By you.

There's always the social democrats, independents who'll be far right if you want them to this election and far left the next one. Whatever suits. Then you can vote for the inbreds in the Far right parties so still plenty of choice for you.

I don't have much time for the Far Right parties, but calling them inbreeds doesn't put those who call them that in a good light.
Sinn Fein have proven to be one of the weakest major opposition parties in a long time. Voting for them will be more of the same. Sinn Fein I'm afraid have lost their way. I suppose this was going to happen when there was no Cause to fight for anymore, and now they've naturally fallen in with the pack.

Inbreds was quite restrained. Good for nothing useless cnuts without a braincell between them. They deserve nothing but ridicule and to be bet of the streets wherever they go. How's that.


And who will be doing the beating as dissident republican types and sinn fein types seem to be terrified of them and inla types seem to be terrified do and some are even agreeing with some of them the inla claim to be socialists but wont go after the so called far right.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Armagh18 on March 28, 2024, 08:51:59 AM
Unfortunately theres a fair chunk of ordinary people with genuine concerns about immigration (fair few there will be a small bit racist too I'll admit) but they're by no stretch far right looneys. The danger is the far right looneys who are probably 0.001% can appeal to that more moderate chunk who have been let down the major parties and feel like they've no choice.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 28, 2024, 10:13:34 AM
Quote from: weareros on March 27, 2024, 10:03:15 PMMary Lou now calling for Ireland to opt out of EU Migration Pact. The winds are blowing to the right and SF want their own far right vote back. Farage did always like them.

SF now opposing the hate speech Bill despite voting for it in the earlier stages.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: From the Bunker on March 28, 2024, 10:52:12 AM
Sinn Fein are proving they are just in the main a bunch of mostly elected nobodies who see which way the wind is blowing.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: AustinPowers on March 28, 2024, 11:34:03 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on Today at 10:52:12 AMSinn Fein are proving they are just in the main a bunch of mostly elected nobodies who see which way the wind is blowing.

Isn't that the way with all parties?

Look at the post  office scandal in recent weeks.  Those people got no support  from government/politicians for years , then  after that  TV show airs, politicians are  tripping over each other to be seen to be apologising and  saying all the right things.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Eire90 on March 28, 2024, 12:12:45 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/03/28/mass-influx-of-refugees-due-to-european-war-seen-as-potential-risk-to-ireland/

A mass influx of refugees due to a potential European war is one of the key risks facing Ireland, according to the latest Government risk assessment.

In its first National Risk Assessment in four years, the Government views such a risk as "very likely" and has raised concerns about the impact on the economy.

For the first time, the National Risk Assessment, which will be published on Thursday, includes "mass inward population displacement" as a major potential threat to the country.

According to the assessment, which was drafted by the Office of Emergency Planning in the Department of Defence as well as experts from other Government departments, the "reasonable worst-case scenario" is a "mass inward population influx, coupled with an increase in international protection applicants, impacting the carrying capacity of the economy".
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on March 28, 2024, 12:48:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on Today at 08:51:59 AMUnfortunately theres a fair chunk of ordinary people with genuine concerns about immigration (fair few there will be a small bit racist too I'll admit) but they're by no stretch far right looneys. The danger is the far right looneys who are probably 0.001% can appeal to that more moderate chunk who have been let down the major parties and feel like they've no choice.

If you are looking at the next election with your main focus being on immigration, then I'm afraid you are either stupid or racist (and all racists are stupid).

Interesting listening to Brolly's podcast today. He referenced a recent Ipsos research poll into people's biggest priorities in the 26 counties.

Immigration finished top at 22%!!!! To put that f**king lunacy into context, healthcare came in at 4%. Education came in at 2%. Taxes and the economy at 2%. Energy prices, which have increased by around 1,000% in the last decade at 2%.

If you're the sort of person for whom immigration is more imporant than healthcare, taxation, education, housing, the cost of living, then you're too f**king stupid to see how you're being manipulated.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: armaghniac on March 28, 2024, 12:55:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on Today at 12:48:18 PMIf you're the sort of person for whom immigration is more imporant than healthcare, taxation, education, housing, the cost of living, then you're too f**king stupid to see how you're being manipulated.

Immigration affects health, education and housing.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 28, 2024, 12:57:58 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on Today at 12:48:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on Today at 08:51:59 AMUnfortunately theres a fair chunk of ordinary people with genuine concerns about immigration (fair few there will be a small bit racist too I'll admit) but they're by no stretch far right looneys. The danger is the far right looneys who are probably 0.001% can appeal to that more moderate chunk who have been let down the major parties and feel like they've no choice.

If you are looking at the next election with your main focus being on immigration, then I'm afraid you are either stupid or racist (and all racists are stupid).

Interesting listening to Brolly's podcast today. He referenced a recent Ipsos research poll into people's biggest priorities in the 26 counties.

Immigration finished top at 22%!!!! To put that f**king lunacy into context, healthcare came in at 4%. Education came in at 2%. Taxes and the economy at 2%. Energy prices, which have increased by around 1,000% in the last decade at 2%.

If you're the sort of person for whom immigration is more imporant than healthcare, taxation, education, housing, the cost of living, then you're too f**king stupid to see how you're being manipulated.

Yep, its easy to blame all your woes on foreigners and some people are just to thick to see what is being done to them. People going on about SF moving right. Wait till you see the independents and FG in the next 6 months.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on March 28, 2024, 12:58:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on Today at 12:55:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on Today at 12:48:18 PMIf you're the sort of person for whom immigration is more imporant than healthcare, taxation, education, housing, the cost of living, then you're too f**king stupid to see how you're being manipulated.

Immigration affects health, education and housing.

If you cant afford to full your oil tank, or if you cant access a GP, and your first thought is to blame immigrants, then, again, you're either stupid, or racist and stupid.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 28, 2024, 01:00:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on Today at 12:55:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on Today at 12:48:18 PMIf you're the sort of person for whom immigration is more imporant than healthcare, taxation, education, housing, the cost of living, then you're too f**king stupid to see how you're being manipulated.

Immigration affects health, education and housing.

Give me the stats on the health and housing. Education has been a struggle in the South more to do with the appalling planning by government. Show me the data that says immigration has caused increased waiting times in hospitals. Show me where housing affordability was caused in some way by Immigrants (most of them are rammed into building that were never to be used for housing - old hotels for example)
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Eire90 on March 28, 2024, 01:06:57 PM
you said the  so called far right need to be be beat off the streets whos going to do that seeing republican types seem to be terrified
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 28, 2024, 01:34:41 PM
Immigrants affected the Health system alright.....







By fkn keeping it going through their work in it!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2024, 01:46:52 PM
Immigration is the number one issue because it costs hundreds of millions of Euro to house, feed, clothe and transport these people (some of whom are complete fraudsters)

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/cost-accommodating-asylum-seekers-increased-31485431.amp






Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 28, 2024, 01:58:37 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on Today at 01:06:57 PMyou said the  so called far right need to be be beat off the streets whos going to do that seeing republican types seem to be terrified

The gardai should be doing it. Better still local residents. I never mentioned "republican types" whatever that is.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Itchy on March 28, 2024, 02:00:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on Today at 01:46:52 PMImmigration is the number one issue because it costs hundreds of millions of Euro to house, feed, clothe and transport these people (some of whom are complete fraudsters)

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/cost-accommodating-asylum-seekers-increased-31485431.amp








We have a price to pay for being part of the EU. Taking our fair share of emigrants is part of it. We have a choice, leave the EU. Lets see how that goes for the Brits who you do seem to have more in common with than anyone else.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Armagh18 on March 28, 2024, 02:20:04 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on Today at 12:58:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on Today at 12:55:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on Today at 12:48:18 PMIf you're the sort of person for whom immigration is more imporant than healthcare, taxation, education, housing, the cost of living, then you're too f**king stupid to see how you're being manipulated.

Immigration affects health, education and housing.

If you cant afford to full your oil tank, or if you cant access a GP, and your first thought is to blame immigrants, then, again, you're either stupid, or racist and stupid.
Calling being stupid isn't gonna win too many votes. There are an awful lot of stupid people around though lol
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 28, 2024, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on Today at 02:00:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on Today at 01:46:52 PMImmigration is the number one issue because it costs hundreds of millions of Euro to house, feed, clothe and transport these people (some of whom are complete fraudsters)

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/cost-accommodating-asylum-seekers-increased-31485431.amp








We have a price to pay for being part of the EU. Taking our fair share of emigrants is part of it. We have a choice, leave the EU. Lets see how that goes for the Brits who you do seem to have more in common with than anyone else.
The vast majority of immigrants are working, paying for their accomodation, buying their own food and clothes, paying VAT, PAYE, PRSI, USC etc
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: seafoid on March 28, 2024, 02:24:12 PM
Pearse Doherty was on Claire Byrne now and he spoke a lot of sense. The Government sould take account of what is happening now and decide on fuel tax increases based on that. The idea that SF are out of touch is pure gaslighting.

The other thing is that FG do not own the flag and neither do they own Irishness.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: RedHand88 on March 28, 2024, 02:25:59 PM
Ireland is predicted to have a surplus of €67 billion by 2027. The money it costs to keep asylum seekers is a drop in the ocean.
They are not to blame for the lack of housing.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: marty34 on March 28, 2024, 02:28:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on Today at 02:24:12 PMPearse Doherty was on Claire Byrne now and he spoke a lot of sense. The Government sould take account of what is happening now and decide on fuel tax increases based on that. The idea that SF are out of touch is pure gaslighting.

The other thing is that FG do not own the flag and neither do they own Irishness.

Fuel in the south going up on Monday - not an April Fool either!

Petrol up by 4c and diesel going up by 3c a litre.

Some petrol stations on the southern side may close up.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2024, 03:01:56 PM
Perception is and becomes reality

O Gorman sent out a tweet in 8 languages welcoming all comers and  offering free accomadation

Higher (maybe even highest) levels of welfare to Ukrainians compared to the broader EU

Non prosecution of people showing up at Dublin Airport without ID

Govt created this problem and are going to get hammered. Sinn Fein are also going to take a serious (and we'll deserved) kicking

Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: RedHand88 on March 28, 2024, 03:13:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on Today at 02:42:03 PM€67 Billion I presume?

Corrected!
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on March 28, 2024, 03:31:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on Today at 01:46:52 PMImmigration is the number one issue because it costs hundreds of millions of Euro to house, feed, clothe and transport these people (some of whom are complete fraudsters)

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/cost-accommodating-asylum-seekers-increased-31485431.amp

Ah so your biggest concern day to day isn't being able to afford to heat the home you can't afford to own, but rather, it's the money the state has to pay for those damn immigrants? Surely if it's true that on a day-to-day bais the health of the states coffers are of more concern to you than your own coffers, then taxation and tax dodging by the superwealthy that ought to be making you mad, instead of the dark skinned fella walking down the street minding his own business?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: From the Bunker on March 28, 2024, 03:35:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on Today at 03:01:56 PMPerception is and becomes reality

O Gorman sent out a tweet in 8 languages welcoming all comers and  offering free accomadation

Higher (maybe even highest) levels of welfare to Ukrainians compared to the broader EU

Non prosecution of people showing up at Dublin Airport without ID

Govt created this problem and are going to get hammered. Sinn Fein are also going to take a serious (and we'll deserved) kicking



Sinn Fein sat about waiting for the next election. Mary Lou being told she was going to be the next Taoiseach gave them complacency. Sure what would you expect when most of their elected candidates didn't really canvass in the last election.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2024, 03:48:21 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on Today at 03:31:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on Today at 01:46:52 PMImmigration is the number one issue because it costs hundreds of millions of Euro to house, feed, clothe and transport these people (some of whom are complete fraudsters)

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/cost-accommodating-asylum-seekers-increased-31485431.amp

Ah so your biggest concern day to day isn't being able to afford to heat the home you can't afford to own, but rather, it's the money the state has to pay for those damn immigrants? Surely if it's true that on a day-to-day bais the health of the states coffers are of more concern to you than your own coffers, then taxation and tax dodging by the superwealthy that ought to be making you mad, instead of the dark skinned fella walking down the street minding his own business?


People have (and had) legitimate concerns that are not being addressed

The government (and Sinn Fein) had an opportunity to tackle this but they caved to the woke NGOs and just started calling people racists and far right

I have 4 immediate family members who are staunch lifelong Blueshirts and they're all voting third party at the next election
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Rossfan on March 28, 2024, 04:00:09 PM
What are "woke NGOs"?
Why is wanting fairness, equality, human dignity, a fair wage, etc treated as an insult?
The billionelaires have done their brainwashing well.

By the way most of the monet spent on IPA people and Ukrainians is going into the hands of Irish property owners, food businesses etc.
In other words circulating in the Irish Economy.

I wonder who the ex blueshirts in Mayo are going to vote for?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on March 28, 2024, 04:02:56 PM
Quote from: whitey on Today at 03:48:21 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on Today at 03:31:13 PM
Quote from: whitey on Today at 01:46:52 PMImmigration is the number one issue because it costs hundreds of millions of Euro to house, feed, clothe and transport these people (some of whom are complete fraudsters)

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/cost-accommodating-asylum-seekers-increased-31485431.amp

Ah so your biggest concern day to day isn't being able to afford to heat the home you can't afford to own, but rather, it's the money the state has to pay for those damn immigrants? Surely if it's true that on a day-to-day bais the health of the states coffers are of more concern to you than your own coffers, then taxation and tax dodging by the superwealthy that ought to be making you mad, instead of the dark skinned fella walking down the street minding his own business?


People have (and had) legitimate concerns that are not being addressed

The government (and Sinn Fein) had an opportunity to tackle this but they caved to the woke NGOs and just started calling people racists and far right

I have 4 immediate family members who are staunch lifelong Blueshirts and they're all voting third party at the next election

Way to not answer the question, Whitey.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Franko on March 28, 2024, 04:40:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on Today at 04:00:09 PMWhat are "woke NGOs"?
Why is wanting fairness, equality, human dignity, a fair wage, etc treated as an insult?
The billionelaires have done their brainwashing well.

By the way most of the monet spent on IPA people and Ukrainians is going into the hands of Irish property owners, food businesses etc.
In other words circulating in the Irish Economy.

I wonder who the ex blueshirts in Mayo are going to vote for?

That's the thing that gets me.  The vast majority of this money is staying in within the economy so it's essentially zero sum.

The thick as mince brits think they are getting a great deal over there by flying these people to Rwanda at a million quid a head with the only economy benefitting being that of Kigali.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: imtommygunn on March 28, 2024, 04:55:37 PM
Are there not ones coming back the other direction too? That Rwanda thing is one of the biggest con jobs about.
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2024, 05:02:26 PM
So if the government was enforcing the law as it pertains to people landing without documentation why all of a sudden was there a CRACKDOWN? 


You only would need a crackdown if the process was being abused and you were seen to be doing nothing about it

https://www.newstalk.com/news/state-is-failing-to-enforce-its-own-immigration-rules-michael-mcnamara-td-1634712



Why cut the welfare entitlements of Ukrainians in HALF? Does that not tell you that they were double what they should have been in the first place
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: Snapchap on March 28, 2024, 05:39:13 PM
Whitey, why aren't you more concerned about tax evasion by the super wealthy than you are about immigrants, if concern for the public purse is your genuine motivation, rather than just, ya know...racism?
Title: Re: The Fine Gael thread
Post by: whitey on March 28, 2024, 05:41:59 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on Today at 05:39:13 PMWhitey, why aren't you more concerned about tax evasion by the super wealthy than you are about immigrants, if concern for the public purse is your genuine motivation, rather than just, ya know...racism?

Who said I'm not concerned about it?

Last time I checked you can be concerned about more than one thing at the same time

Keep banging that racism drum instead of addressing legitimate concerns and you'll see what happens. The govt got a sneak preview as to what coming with the recent referendum debacle