Gaelic Football - Rules & Regulations discussion/clarification

[Armagh18]

Of course it's a goal if you put it into your own net by any means.

Would have thought so?

[Milltown Row2]

Is it not the same premise? I.e. no goal?

To look at the rule differently

An attacker can't carry the ball over the line, no goal

A defender though if he carries the ball over the line it's a goal

So it's nearly the same as the above question.

Which is in the rule book that everyone is an expert on 

imtommygunn was asking a question. Are us plebs not allowed to ask questions in the Rules&Regulations discussion thread without being cyber mocked by a (self claimed) 89% expert on the rules? 

The reason I gave the percentage is this, surely the ref's know all the rules? the reality is different, at club level you only need get 80%, and most just get over that percentage, and not on the first attempt either mind you.

So when people are on a discussion board discussing this was a foul and why was that given, it gives you some perspective on the over the fence ref's! Most would fail miserably on a rules test but are ready to berate you for 60 minutes!

[imtommygunn]

It's nearly the same but it's not the same... devil is in the detail.

[Rossfan]

On a point of order Main St....
There is no 14 metre line

[Main Street]

On a point of order Main St....
There is no 14 metre line

I was replying to a ref,do you think he would know that?

Is it not the same premise? I.e. no goal?

To look at the rule differently

An attacker can't carry the ball over the line, no goal

A defender though if he carries the ball over the line it's a goal

So it's nearly the same as the above question.

Which is in the rule book that everyone is an expert on 

imtommygunn was asking a question. Are us plebs not allowed to ask questions in the Rules&Regulations discussion thread without being cyber mocked by a (self claimed) 89% expert on the rules? 

The reason I gave the percentage is this, surely the ref's know all the rules? the reality is different, at club level you only need get 80%, and most just get over that percentage, and not on the first attempt either mind you.

So when people are on a discussion board discussing this was a foul and why was that given, it gives you some perspective on the over the fence ref's! Most would fail miserably on a rules test but are ready to berate you for 60 minutes!

I was not that serious about the 89%  but my point stands, anybody here in this thread should be able to ask a question about a rule without some level of mockery directed against them re the ignorance of said questioner, give or take a metre or so.

[thewobbler]

I don't think it's mockery to be honest.

It's more frustration.

A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.

Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.

It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.

People are people.

Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.

[Milltown Row2]

On a point of order Main St....
There is no 14 metre line

I was replying to a ref,do you think he would know that?

Is it not the same premise? I.e. no goal?

To look at the rule differently

An attacker can't carry the ball over the line, no goal

A defender though if he carries the ball over the line it's a goal

So it's nearly the same as the above question.

Which is in the rule book that everyone is an expert on 

imtommygunn was asking a question. Are us plebs not allowed to ask questions in the Rules&Regulations discussion thread without being cyber mocked by a (self claimed) 89% expert on the rules? 

The reason I gave the percentage is this, surely the ref's know all the rules? the reality is different, at club level you only need get 80%, and most just get over that percentage, and not on the first attempt either mind you.

So when people are on a discussion board discussing this was a foul and why was that given, it gives you some perspective on the over the fence ref's! Most would fail miserably on a rules test but are ready to berate you for 60 minutes!

I was not that serious about the 89%  but my point stands, anybody here in this thread should be able to ask a question about a rule without some level of mockery directed against them re the ignorance of said questioner, give or take a metre or so.

It's a discussion board yes and my posts are mainly tongue firmly in cheek but as wobbler said, it's annoying when people come across so right in their view that they take offence when corrected!

This filters down to behind the fence, on sideline and on the pitch. You'd expect senior players to know the rules? So if I come across with some mockery, don't take it personally, it's frustration mainly.

[JoG2]

Is it not the same premise? I.e. no goal?

To look at the rule differently

An attacker can't carry the ball over the line, no goal

A defender though if he carries the ball over the line it's a goal

So it's nearly the same as the above question.

Which is in the rule book that everyone is an expert on 

imtommygunn was asking a question. Are us plebs not allowed to ask questions in the Rules&Regulations discussion thread without being cyber mocked by a (self claimed) 89% expert on the rules? 

 .. In fairness I don't think I ever got as high as 89% in an exam

[David McKeown]

I think there is also an element of the nature of the rulebook itself.  The fundamental rules of for example association football haven't really been tweaked much over the years.  A few interpretations have but the rules themselves have remained pretty consistent.  Its the same in most sports.  In the GAA it seems like it changes on an annual basis. Sometimes only subtly yet those minor tweaks can have significant effects.

It can be hard for most people to keep up. I remember most of the Armagh fans around me being very curious why Armagh were awarded a penalty against Cavan when the foul was clearly outside the large square, it was due to it being a black card offence denial of goalscoring opportunity within the 21.

On top of that the association's approach to how to tweak rules has been inconsistent over the years with the make up of the relevant committees changing drastically over the years. As a result it can lead to questions over what is intended by some of the rules and the approach that should be used to interpreting them. The double bounce that wasn't a double bounce for that goal by Kerry v Dublin (i think it was last year) being a prime example.

Finally I don't think there's a permanent committee or person whose job it is to officially explain a decision or an interpretation the way there is in the NFL or association football.  I think someone like that would help as well

[tonto1888]

I don't think it's mockery to be honest.

It's more frustration.

A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.

Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.

It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.

People are people.

Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.

I will be the first one i admit I don't know all the rules these days. However, I know what I see and that things being done inconsistently within games. A ref will blow player up for over carrying but not player B. Or charging or whatever. I've no issue with them doing that against an Armagh man but only if they apply it the same against the other team. And it's not just Armagh games I'm referring to. I've seen it in other games also. I get it can come down to the refs interpretation of a charge for example, but surely his interpretation can't change in the same game?

[Milltown Row2]

I don't think it's mockery to be honest.

It's more frustration.

A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.

Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.

It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.

People are people.

Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.

I will be the first one i admit I don't know all the rules these days. However, I know what I see and that things being done inconsistently within games. A ref will blow player up for over carrying but not player B. Or charging or whatever. I've no issue with them doing that against an Armagh man but only if they apply it the same against the other team. And it's not just Armagh games I'm referring to. I've seen it in other games also. I get it can come down to the refs interpretation of a charge for example, but surely his interpretation can't change in the same game?

I'd two incidents in a game the other day... Hurling game

First was a free, over the shoulder tackle no interest in playing the ball.

Second incident, opposing team, lad reaches in over the shoulder with hurl to try and flick ball away, intentionally trying to play ball rather than trying to stop player!

Cries come for a free, followed by "what's the difference?" And "we want consistency"

Two different views, one whistle

[Main Street]

On a point of order Main St....
There is no 14 metre line

I was replying to a ref,do you think he would know that?

Is it not the same premise? I.e. no goal?

To look at the rule differently

An attacker can't carry the ball over the line, no goal

A defender though if he carries the ball over the line it's a goal

So it's nearly the same as the above question.

Which is in the rule book that everyone is an expert on 

imtommygunn was asking a question. Are us plebs not allowed to ask questions in the Rules&Regulations discussion thread without being cyber mocked by a (self claimed) 89% expert on the rules? 

The reason I gave the percentage is this, surely the ref's know all the rules? the reality is different, at club level you only need get 80%, and most just get over that percentage, and not on the first attempt either mind you.

So when people are on a discussion board discussing this was a foul and why was that given, it gives you some perspective on the over the fence ref's! Most would fail miserably on a rules test but are ready to berate you for 60 minutes!

I was not that serious about the 89%  but my point stands, anybody here in this thread should be able to ask a question about a rule without some level of mockery directed against them re the ignorance of said questioner, give or take a metre or so.

It's a discussion board yes and my posts are mainly tongue firmly in cheek but as wobbler said, it's annoying when people come across so right in their view that they take offence when corrected!

This filters down to behind the fence, on sideline and on the pitch. You'd expect senior players to know the rules? So if I come across with some mockery, don't take it personally, it's frustration mainly.

In other threads - post match threads, you are welcome to ride the high horse and take the pee. But here, when somebody asks a question I´d say either offer up a reply with no add-on sarcastic comment or just don't reply.

[Milltown Row2]

On a point of order Main St....
There is no 14 metre line

I was replying to a ref,do you think he would know that?

Is it not the same premise? I.e. no goal?

To look at the rule differently

An attacker can't carry the ball over the line, no goal

A defender though if he carries the ball over the line it's a goal

So it's nearly the same as the above question.

Which is in the rule book that everyone is an expert on 

imtommygunn was asking a question. Are us plebs not allowed to ask questions in the Rules&Regulations discussion thread without being cyber mocked by a (self claimed) 89% expert on the rules? 

The reason I gave the percentage is this, surely the ref's know all the rules? the reality is different, at club level you only need get 80%, and most just get over that percentage, and not on the first attempt either mind you.

So when people are on a discussion board discussing this was a foul and why was that given, it gives you some perspective on the over the fence ref's! Most would fail miserably on a rules test but are ready to berate you for 60 minutes!

I was not that serious about the 89%  but my point stands, anybody here in this thread should be able to ask a question about a rule without some level of mockery directed against them re the ignorance of said questioner, give or take a metre or so.

It's a discussion board yes and my posts are mainly tongue firmly in cheek but as wobbler said, it's annoying when people come across so right in their view that they take offence when corrected!

This filters down to behind the fence, on sideline and on the pitch. You'd expect senior players to know the rules? So if I come across with some mockery, don't take it personally, it's frustration mainly.

In other threads - post match threads, you are welcome to ride the high horse and take the pee. But here, when somebody asks a question I´d say either offer up a reply with no add-on sarcastic comment or just don't reply.

So you don't do sarcastic responses? I could check, but think you'll find there's plenty.

I offer reply's. Would you prefer just to have your own call on something without a different perspective?

It's not life or death the board, it's light hearted. If you're taking this too thick just hit the ignore button.

[David McKeown]

I don't think it's mockery to be honest.

It's more frustration.

A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.

Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.

It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.

People are people.

Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.

I will be the first one i admit I don't know all the rules these days. However, I know what I see and that things being done inconsistently within games. A ref will blow player up for over carrying but not player B. Or charging or whatever. I've no issue with them doing that against an Armagh man but only if they apply it the same against the other team. And it's not just Armagh games I'm referring to. I've seen it in other games also. I get it can come down to the refs interpretation of a charge for example, but surely his interpretation can't change in the same game?

I remember discussing this with a prominent inter county player when we were at uni. His response always stuck out to me. He said that he didn't care at all about in game consistency but rather that the ref got the decision correct. That way there'd be more game to game consistency over the course of the season and they wouldn't have to prepare for specific refs.

[tonto1888]

I don't think it's mockery to be honest.

It's more frustration.

A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.

Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.

It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.

People are people.

Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.

I will be the first one i admit I don't know all the rules these days. However, I know what I see and that things being done inconsistently within games. A ref will blow player up for over carrying but not player B. Or charging or whatever. I've no issue with them doing that against an Armagh man but only if they apply it the same against the other team. And it's not just Armagh games I'm referring to. I've seen it in other games also. I get it can come down to the refs interpretation of a charge for example, but surely his interpretation can't change in the same game?

I remember discussing this with a prominent inter county player when we were at uni. His response always stuck out to me. He said that he didn't care at all about in game consistency but rather that the ref got the decision correct. That way there'd be more game to game consistency over the course of the season and they wouldn't have to prepare for specific refs.

a fair point too