The Many Faces of US Politics...

[Eamonnca1]

Respect is earned. Respect demanded at gunpoint is not respect. It's terror. In a civilized country we should not be facing a bigger threat from our own police than from jihadists.

[Puckoon]

Again - "respect demanded at gun point" is an extreme.

Are you suggesting that law enforcement does not need to be obeyed? Are you advocating anarchy and more chaos?

To be clear, I am advocating for better training for police, and civil obedience.

I'd revise your last sentence to suggest that we should not be facing a bigger threat from the break down of civility, institution, poverty on our streets and how this is being handled by poorly trained understaffed police forces - than from jihadists.

If you think there's a singular causation and blame here - then that's symptomatic of the problem.

This is an insane time in history in this country - and when it's playing out against the backdrop of the current state of politics and leadership, well in my opinion that makes their actions all the more outrageous.

[HiMucker]

Puck I hear what your saying.  But WRT to the nurse case,  it is my understanding, and i could be wrong here, the cop was asking her to break the law.  Ie the cop needed a warrant to take the patients blood.  That is not disobedience.  That is abiding by the law

[Puckoon]

And that is why I 100% side with the nurse. For sure. It could be argued that the sample would have been thrown out, so she should have just done it - but I disagree with that opinion. She did this as a professional in her field, not civil disobedience of a law officer.

We are on the same page RE: The Nurse.

[whitey]

Puck I hear what your saying.  But WRT to the nurse case,  it is my understanding, and i could be wrong here, the cop was asking her to break the law.  Ie the cop needed a warrant to take the patients blood.  That is not disobedience.  That is abiding by the law

That case seems to be a very isolated incident.  In 25 years living here, I have never heard of that happening before, and I play very close attention to the news.  The blood sample would have been inadmissable as evidence even if she had drawn it for him as it was obtained without a warrant.

I would be interested to know how many medical professional get arrested in a typical year for refusing to act illegally on behalf of the police....my guess would be that you could count them on one hand if any even exist.

I havent  read the specifics on this case.....was there a fatality involved?

Was the "patient" a repeat drunk driver?

Was there a reasonable suspicion that the "patient" was feigning unconsciousness to avoid getting bagged?  (I know someone who did this)

While not absolving the officer from his actions, I would like to know more about the background

[HiMucker]

Agree.  She should have told the cop if he thinks its ok without the warrant he should take it himself.

[Puckoon]

Puck I hear what your saying.  But WRT to the nurse case,  it is my understanding, and i could be wrong here, the cop was asking her to break the law.  Ie the cop needed a warrant to take the patients blood.  That is not disobedience.  That is abiding by the law

That case seems to be a very isolated incident.  In 25 years living here, I have never heard of that happening before, and I play very close attention to the news.  The blood sample would have been inadmissable as evidence even if she had drawn it for him as it was obtained without a warrant.

I would be interested to know how many medical professional get arrested in a typical year for refusing to act illegally on behalf of the police....my guess would be that you could count them on one hand if any even exist.

I havent  read the specifics on this case.....was there a fatality involved?

Was the "patient" a repeat drunk driver?

Was there a reasonable suspicion that the "patient" was feigning unconsciousness to avoid getting bagged?  (I know someone who did this)

While not absolving the officer from his actions, I would like to know more about the background

Questions which while they add color are in this instance -
Irrelevant, EDIT: Not totally irrelevant.
Irrelevant, but no
and
Irrelevant, but no.

The state of Utah had enacted 3 conditions under which the law enforcement could request, and be given - a blood sample. The officer had none of them. He only needed one. This was explained to him by the nurse, by her colleague - and then finally by her boss very clearly, professionally and politely. He was presented with the documentation. He lost his temper.

I actually believe the patient was the victim in a car wreck which left another person (presumed responsible party) dead. The police officer states he was asking for a blood draw to protect the victim. In either case - the law prevented the draw.

Puzzled by the claim to pay close attention to the news, not sure that's a unique characteristic?

[whitey]

I'm curious as to why the cop was such a pr1ck....what triggered him to act in such a manner or has he always been an abusive suckhead

[Gabriel_Hurl]

I actually believe the patient was the victim in a car wreck which left another person (presumed responsible party) dead.

Correct - and somewhat ironically - a reserve police officer

[Eamonnca1]

Again - "respect demanded at gun point" is an extreme.

Are you suggesting that law enforcement does not need to be obeyed? Are you advocating anarchy and more chaos?

To be clear, I am advocating for better training for police, and civil obedience.

I'd revise your last sentence to suggest that we should not be facing a bigger threat from the break down of civility, institution, poverty on our streets and how this is being handled by poorly trained understaffed police forces - than from jihadists.

If you think there's a singular causation and blame here - then that's symptomatic of the problem.

This is an insane time in history in this country - and when it's playing out against the backdrop of the current state of politics and leadership, well in my opinion that makes their actions all the more outrageous.

I'm advocating the rule of law. Everyone should respect it, police included.

[Puckoon]

You may go and live on The Beach so, with Leo DiCaprio.

At some stage the law needs enforced. No point suggesting otherwise. Poor form to suggest 'The Police' as a whole aren't respecting the law

Until people step back from the brink the conversation will remain "Them and Us"... Wonder where we've had that conversation before!

[Eamonnca1]

I did not say that the law should not be enforced. That is the precise opposite of what I said.

Nor did I say that all police do not respect the law. But it's reasonable to say that given their power of life and death, their fear-based reactions, their lack of training in non lethal force, and their near zero accountability, at this point the police are a bigger threat to public safety than the terrorists.

Lifetime odds of being killed by:
Police officer: 1 in 8,359
Foreign born terrorist: 1 in 45,808
Refugee terrorist: 1 in 46,192,893
Illegal immigrant terrorist: 1 in 138,324, 873

Source

[whitey]

I did not say that the law should not be enforced. That is the precise opposite of what I said.

Nor did I say that all police do not respect the law. But it's reasonable to say that given their power of life and death, their fear-based reactions, their lack of training in non lethal force, and their near zero accountability, at this point the police are a bigger threat to public safety than the terrorists.

Lifetime odds of being killed by:
Police officer: 1 in 8,359
Foreign born terrorist: 1 in 45,808
Refugee terrorist: 1 in 46,192,893
Illegal immigrant terrorist: 1 in 138,324, 873

Source

What are the lifetime odds of being killed by a police officer if you just obey the fvckin law?

[heganboy]

Exactly the same. Mathematically

[stew]

I did not say that the law should not be enforced. That is the precise opposite of what I said.

Nor did I say that all police do not respect the law. But it's reasonable to say that given their power of life and death, their fear-based reactions, their lack of training in non lethal force, and their near zero accountability, at this point the police are a bigger threat to public safety than the terrorists.

Lifetime odds of being killed by:
Police officer: 1 in 8,359
Foreign born terrorist: 1 in 45,808
Refugee terrorist: 1 in 46,192,893
Illegal immigrant terrorist: 1 in 138,324, 873

Source

So you want all illegal aliens to be held to the standard of the rule of law then?