And how it should set your world view.
Thread should not contain facts.
Thread should not contain logic.
Alternatives will not be tolerated.
Hell, or at the very best Purgatory awaits.
The old white man with the beard in the sky is watching you...
I disagree. In advance
I believe several of the future responses (see below) are ad hominem and some sail close to infringing Godwin's Law
I thought this thread was reserved exclusively for my pontification?
(https://i0.wp.com/southernskeptic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/prayer-terms-and-conditions.jpg?resize=619%2C644)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EBw_da7BZk
You need to have at least 1500 novena stamps to get past the bouncers at the doorway to Heaven these days
Two questions for Tony:
i) Given that Catholics believe that communion hosts are the actual body of Christ, does taking communion make you a cannibal?
ii) Given that Catholics believe altar wine is the actual blood of Christ, does drinking altar wine mean priests are vampires? Or are they just drinking on the job?
iii) Did Gawd get Mary's consent for impregnation? Or did he just go ahead and rape her?
iv) If Gawd wasn't capable of having a human child without human intervention, it doesn't exactly make him omnipotent, does it? Why not just send him down on a flaming chariot from the sky and make a proper entrance? Put your back into it, man!
v) If Gawd used a human female to have his child, does that make Jesus the first surrogate child?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 12, 2017, 04:22:47 PM
iii) Did Gawd get Mary's consent for impregnation? Or did he just go ahead and rape her?
iv) If Gawd wasn't capable of having a human child without human intervention, it doesn't exactly make him omnipotent, does it? Why not just send him down on a flaming chariot from the sky and make a proper entrance? Put your back into it, man!
v) If Gawd used a human female to have his child, does that make Jesus the first surrogate child?
You would wonder what the neighbours thought about the story. Divine impregnation? Really? Especially the women.
Patriarchies really hate women.
Simple.If you believe in God,divine impregnation is perfectly reasonable.If your beliefs do not extend beyond the narrow confines of humanism,then your plausibility levels are limited,sadly
Reality is not "narrow confines." But all that aside, my question was not about whether or not Gawd actually god Mary knocked up. I was asking about whether or not she consented. Is Gawd a rapist? Was Jesus a surrogate child?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 12, 2017, 05:01:13 PM
Simple.If you believe in God,divine impregnation is perfectly reasonable.If your beliefs do not extend beyond the narrow confines of humanism,then your plausibility levels are limited,sadly
Why would God impregnate a woman?
If God is the father son and holy show why does a woman have to be involved ?
Christianity can never accept sex and sexuality. The Virgin birth is the reason. Afraid of the power of the the shrine , the virginator , the baby zipper , man's ruin, the mystical fold, the jaws of life
Christianity say groupthink can overrude tits. It can't.
Jesus had to be born of a woman to connect with humanity.But his birth had to be pure.
Well a stable doesn't guarantee cleanliness or purity.
Every religion in the world believe theirs is the one, they can't all be. Someone or everyone is telling porkies...like virgins giving birth?, walking on water?, turning water to wine and or whatever the feck it was, parting the Red Sea etc etc. If you actually thought about all this seriously you'd be safer in the pub than the chapel
That's why it's called faith.Not logical,a mystery,cannot be proved or disproved.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 12, 2017, 10:31:43 PM
That's why it's called faith.Not logical,a mystery,cannot be proved or disproved.
But you choose to believe in things that are so far fetched it's actually funny and you agree they can't be proved, you have guys giving out communion and for all you know 60 mins previous to that he could have been feeding the horse or pulling the balls of himself...like wtf.
I believe.There's millions like me.Simple as that
Quote from: T Fearon on September 12, 2017, 10:05:48 PM
Jesus had to be born of a woman to connect with humanity.But his birth had to be pure.
What's so "pure" about raping some Palestinian girl? What's so "pure" about surrogacy?
Quote from: seafoid on September 12, 2017, 08:37:52 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 12, 2017, 05:01:13 PM
Simple.If you believe in God,divine impregnation is perfectly reasonable.If your beliefs do not extend beyond the narrow confines of humanism,then your plausibility levels are limited,sadly
Why would God impregnate a woman?
If God is the father son and holy show why does a woman have to be involved ?
Christianity can never accept sex and sexuality. The Virgin birth is the reason. Afraid of the power of the the shrine , the virginator , the baby zipper , man's ruin, the mystical fold, the jaws of life
Christianity say groupthink can overrude tits. It can't.
Indeed. The world is full of puritanical religions that hate the human reproductive process (the female part especially) and they wish that the birth canal were a one-way street. Virgin birth is a staple of a good many religions.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 12, 2017, 10:53:58 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 12, 2017, 10:05:48 PM
Jesus had to be born of a woman to connect with humanity.But his birth had to be pure.
What's so "pure" about raping some Palestinian girl? What's so "pure" about surrogacy?
This reference to rape is offensive, and while you seem to think that being offensive contributes to your argument some things are not acceptable.
The bible states that the Angel appeared to Mary, and Mary answered, "I am the Lord's servant. Let everything you've said happen to me." It may not be a conception that you agree with, but there are many such and I'm sure you do not comment on them in this way.
Do babies who die without being baptised still go to limbo, or what?
Or is it just babies who died prior to 2007?
It'd be shit to be a baby who died in 2006 seeing a baby who died in 2007 get into heaven but yourself still being left out in the cold. A bit like being one of the chumps who bought a Dublin semi-d at the top of the market in 2006 before prices crashed and then your neighbour moves in a few years later having paid 30% of the price you did.
"Ah come on, you're letting babies who die now get into heaven. Why not me?"
"Sorry kiddo, no can do, you were born a week before Joe Ratzinger changed the rules. No exceptions."
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 12, 2017, 10:53:58 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 12, 2017, 10:05:48 PM
Jesus had to be born of a woman to connect with humanity.But his birth had to be pure.
What's so "pure" about raping some Palestinian girl? What's so "pure" about surrogacy?
Disgraceful post.
So she did consent. I finally got an answer, and not from Tony. Christ, Tony, it wouldn't have been so hard to give me an answer, would it?
Still waiting for an answer to the surrogate question though.
Quote from: sid waddell on September 13, 2017, 12:00:10 AM
Do babies who die without being baptised still go to limbo, or what?
Or is it just babies who died prior to 2007?
It'd be shit to be a baby who died in 2006 seeing a baby who died in 2007 get into heaven but yourself still being left out in the cold. A bit like being one of the chumps who bought a Dublin semi-d at the top of the market in 2006 before prices crashed and then your neighbour moves in a few years later having paid 30% of the price you did.
"Ah come on, you're letting babies who die now get into heaven. Why not me?"
"Sorry kiddo, no can do, you were born a week before Joe Ratzinger changed the rules. No exceptions."
And what's the story with purgatory? Has that been abolished yet? I hear it was invented some time around the middle ages.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on September 13, 2017, 12:07:13 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 12, 2017, 10:53:58 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 12, 2017, 10:05:48 PM
Jesus had to be born of a woman to connect with humanity.But his birth had to be pure.
What's so "pure" about raping some Palestinian girl? What's so "pure" about surrogacy?
Disgraceful post.
It's "disgraceful" to ask questions? Grow a thicker skin.
Maybe the baby Jesus was, to use the words of 2010 Nevada Republican senate candidate Sharron Angle, the "lemonade" that came from rape?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 13, 2017, 12:13:29 AM
So she did consent. I finally got an answer, and not from Tony. Christ, Tony, it wouldn't have been so hard to give me an answer, would it?
You can't just throw rape into a conversation without serious cause. You cannot just say x raped y and require someone to deny it and you would not accept similar carryon from someone else.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 13, 2017, 01:43:45 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 13, 2017, 12:13:29 AM
So she did consent. I finally got an answer, and not from Tony. Christ, Tony, it wouldn't have been so hard to give me an answer, would it?
You can't just throw rape into a conversation without serious cause. You cannot just say x raped y and require someone to deny it and you would not accept similar carryon from someone else.
Another perfect example of the way this board has gone recently. Whoever can be the most insulting wins. Eamon... you won the race to the bottom.
My wee girl was doing her homework last night and she says 'daddy what was the Big Bang theory?' I started doing my none science best to explain it in layman terms before resorting to the all knowing google for a more definitive answer. I asked why were you doing it in Science? Says she , no, we are doing it in religion. Apparently God created the Big Bang and after all that he then took his 7 days to create the earth....Jesus Wept says I(pun intended). Bugger religion and its falsehoods.
So who did start the Big Bang then?
I'd say nobody said that the Earth was literally created in seven days in that class, unless Nelson McCausland was teaching it.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 12, 2017, 10:50:00 PM
I believe.There's millions like me.Simple as that
Truest thing Tony has ever said. He believes, and he is impervious to argument otherwise. That is his right. I don't think we had to have an entire thread to make fun of his faith.
When his faith leads him to make statements that others find objectionable, re same sex marriage, paedophilia in the church etc it's all well and good to ask him to justify how that faith effects other people, often to their detriment, and to ask him how his understanding of faith intersects with Christ's teachings.
And it may be that we find his faith priggish, self righteous, the whitest of the sepulchres that Christ spoke of.
But it is his, and slagging him off for the basic fact of it is unnecessary and small.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 13, 2017, 07:53:08 AM
My wee girl was doing her homework last night and she says 'daddy what was the Big Bang theory?' I started doing my none science best to explain it in layman terms before resorting to the all knowing google for a more definitive answer. I asked why were you doing it in Science? Says she , no, we are doing it in religion. Apparently God created the Big Bang and after all that he then took his 7 days to create the earth....Jesus Wept says I(pun intended). Bugger religion and its falsehoods.
Proper order bc, and while you're at it, bugger Steven Hawking and every other cosmologist you can think of also.
I mean Tony says, "God created the world. That is, he made it out of nothing."
But Steven says, "He did on me arse, the world created itself. Matter appeared from nowhere and this is happening all the time."
I don't think much of any religion I have come across but the alternatives aren't up to much either.
I can just about tag along with the Big Bang theory, right up to the time, 13.8 billion years ago apparently, when cosmologists tell us the whole craic started. But I'd like to know what the situation was like 13.9 billion years ago.
Heck, I'm not that hard to please. Just what was there one microsecond before someone/somebody lit the fuse or pressed the switch to set it off will do me fine.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 13, 2017, 09:56:08 AM
So who did start the Big Bang then?
I'd say nobody said that the Earth was literally created in seven days in that class, unless Nelson McCausland was teaching it.
I agree that it is a conundrum what was pre-big band and I dont have the answer....the lesson did however proceed on the basis that it was a 7 day turnaround for the whole creation business.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 13, 2017, 09:56:08 AM
So who did start the Big Bang then?
I'd say nobody said that the Earth was literally created in seven days in that class, unless Nelson McCausland was teaching it.
Yep, thats kinda what I always say to 100% athiests who recite the "science proves religion doesnt exist" theory .... I dont see why belief in a God/higher power or in science have to be mutually exclusive ?
I would in no way pander to the crackpot fundamentalist (pedophile facilitating excuser) religious views of the retched fearon but I do sit somewhere between Agnostic & believer .... and the % changes on a daily basis :-/ ....
Ive come to the conclusion that Im just about smart enough to know that Im not smart enough to know .. in my view, anyone who is 100% either way (athiest or believer) is a cretin ..... (edit, or else theyve had a visitation and I havent had one yet :o lol )
Quote from: easytiger95 on September 13, 2017, 10:39:06 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 12, 2017, 10:50:00 PM
I believe.There's millions like me.Simple as that
Truest thing Tony has ever said. He believes, and he is impervious to argument otherwise. That is his right. I don't think we had to have an entire thread to make fun of his faith.
When his faith leads him to make statements that others find objectionable, re same sex marriage, paedophilia in the church etc it's all well and good to ask him to justify how that faith effects other people, often to their detriment, and to ask him how his understanding of faith intersects with Christ's teachings.
And it may be that we find his faith priggish, self righteous, the whitest of the sepulchres that Christ spoke of.
But it is his, and slagging him off for the basic fact of it is unnecessary and small.
Agreed, but if you're on gaaboard.com opening up a thread & posting stuff about Jacob Rees-Mogg before 08:00 on a Saturday morning, now that is seriously worrying, in my view.
Quote from: easytiger95 on September 13, 2017, 10:39:06 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 12, 2017, 10:50:00 PM
I believe.There's millions like me.Simple as that
Truest thing Tony has ever said. He believes, and he is impervious to argument otherwise. That is his right. I don't think we had to have an entire thread to make fun of his faith.
When his faith leads him to make statements that others find objectionable, re same sex marriage, paedophilia in the church etc it's all well and good to ask him to justify how that faith effects other people, often to their detriment, and to ask him how his understanding of faith intersects with Christ's teachings.
And it may be that we find his faith priggish, self righteous, the whitest of the sepulchres that Christ spoke of.
But it is his, and slagging him off for the basic fact of it is unnecessary and small.
Here is a good one about faith. Indian guru is dead and body is in a freezer. Believers say he is in a very deep state of meditation called samadhi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldfc68bxlB8
It goes to court
The court is unwilling to intervene in the sacred territory of personal faith and beliefs and is not competent to distinguish between a naturally dead body and a body in samadhi. The guru can stay in the freezer.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-4667324/Indian-gurus-body-stay-freezer-says-court.html
TF can believe all he wants about Virgin births and life after death but he can't stop gay people getting married or action against clerical child rape if there is a political majority. Faith is personal. It is not coercive
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 13, 2017, 11:14:24 AM
Proper order bc, and while you're at it, bugger Steven Hawking and every other cosmologist you can think of also.
I mean Tony says, "God created the world. That is, he made it out of nothing."
But Steven says, "He did on me arse, the world created itself. Matter appeared from nowhere and this is happening all the time."
I haven't read everything Prof. Hawking has written, but I haven't seen him quoted thus. I'm pretty sure he would say simply that we don't know what, if anything preceded the Big Bang.
I don't think it's a question that will easily be answered, but most sensible people see the logical fallacy in the God of the Gaps proposition, which assumes that everything we don't (yet) know is necessarily explained by God. The problem is, God is becoming more and more idle and redundant as we discover how the world works.
What was there before the Big Bang may be unimaginable but eventually mathematically explicable. That wouldn't be a unique state of affairs. Try imagining or visualising an imaginary number or a complex number. Yet, for example, we wouldn't have our electricity supply, much less computers without the mathematical explanation of them.
Or what about the wave/particle duality of light. Completely unimaginable but quite simply explicable for practical purposes. Like wise the Uncertainty Principle and quantum mechanics in general.
We're not as far along in understanding the mind, but all available research is pointing to the mind being the manifestation of the physical firing of neurons and no doubt we'll get there eventually and give God another six months of the year off all in one go.
He'll still be clocking in for a few minutes every few months, though to attend to the people who confuse science and philosophy, which is where nearly all of his work is concentrated these days. Science has made fairly good strides with the "How" question in the last 400 years. The philosophers have been at it for millennia with the "Why" question and they're still no further on. It's a harder question, though the answer may be simple.
The point about science and religion not being mutually exclusive is true, but the point is that religion loses a lot of its lustre when, after insisting in fairly inflexible terms that this is the truth and the only way, it rushes back to reinvent itself with each new major scientific discovery which proves what it has said thus far to be nonsense.
The fact is, none of us know, science admits it and points to logical likelihoods, religion insists it does know and if everyone else doesn't agree with it they're doomed.
Hardy I think social sophistication is a very thin reed against which to lean . The clitoris has gone in and out of scientific knowledge over the centuries depending on how curious the culture is. It was known about in the middle ages but was then forgotten about for example. Ovulation was discovered by man and documented by science in the 1870's. Human groups are stupid generally. Religion is like dogshit. It will always be there. People will always walk into it. It is very hard to get out of trousers.
Quote from: haranguerer on September 13, 2017, 02:38:04 PM
The point about science and religion not being mutually exclusive is true, but the point is that religion loses a lot of its lustre when, after insisting in fairly inflexible terms that this is the truth and the only way, it rushes back to reinvent itself with each new major scientific discovery which proves what it has said thus far to be nonsense.
The fact is, none of us know, science admits it and points to logical likelihoods, religion insists it does know and if everyone else doesn't agree with it they're doomed.
and thats why Ive personally come to the conclusion that Im just about smart enough to know that Im not smart enough to know .. either way (and neither is anyone else)..
What some people call "God" is possibly what other people call the "unknown" in all of this....
Quote from: armaghniac on September 13, 2017, 09:56:08 AM
So who did start the Big Bang then?
Loaded question. Pre-supposes that it was started by a person. Somehow I doubt there was an old white-haired dude in a white frock sitting on a cloud and pressing a button.
Quote
I'd say nobody said that the Earth was literally created in seven days in that class, unless Nelson McCausland was teaching it.
They did before the origins of planets was understood.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 13, 2017, 11:14:24 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 13, 2017, 07:53:08 AM
My wee girl was doing her homework last night and she says 'daddy what was the Big Bang theory?' I started doing my none science best to explain it in layman terms before resorting to the all knowing google for a more definitive answer. I asked why were you doing it in Science? Says she , no, we are doing it in religion. Apparently God created the Big Bang and after all that he then took his 7 days to create the earth....Jesus Wept says I(pun intended). Bugger religion and its falsehoods.
Proper order bc, and while you're at it, bugger Steven Hawking and every other cosmologist you can think of also.
I mean Tony says, "God created the world. That is, he made it out of nothing."
But Steven says, "He did on me arse, the world created itself. Matter appeared from nowhere and this is happening all the time."
I don't think much of any religion I have come across but the alternatives aren't up to much either.
I can just about tag along with the Big Bang theory, right up to the time, 13.8 billion years ago apparently, when cosmologists tell us the whole craic started. But I'd like to know what the situation was like 13.9 billion years ago.
Heck, I'm not that hard to please. Just what was there one microsecond before someone/somebody lit the fuse or pressed the switch to set it off will do me fine.
It wasn't so long ago that we didn't know about the Big Bang. The Cosmic Background Radiation is a bit hard to explain without it.
Science has always pushed the frontiers of knowledge. With every question that gets answered another dozen questions pop up. And God usually retreats every time that happens. People used to think God caused earthquakes before plate-tectonics was understood. People used to think God caused thunder and lightening before electricity and atmospheric conditions were understood. People used to think God caused rain before weather was understood. The "science can't answer this ergo God did it" is a weak position to take since it keeps getting knocked back every time.
Getting way too complicated.Quite simply my religious faith is simply based on the fact that Jesus Christ lived,died,and rose again,and this gives some purpose to another wise finite biological span.Now I know people will say that Jesus existence cannot be technically proved.However I feel that if this was some sort of fairytale it wouldn't have survived into its third millennium.
If at the end I have been wrong I still have lost nothing.
Your head's cut.
Sorry Tony but I suppose this be how you feelat times here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_jzDGv0KKw
Quote from: T Fearon on September 13, 2017, 05:48:14 PM
Getting way too complicated.Quite simply my religious faith is simply based on the fact that Jesus Christ lived,died,and rose again,and this gives some purpose to another wise finite biological span.Now I know people will say that Jesus existence cannot be technically proved.However I feel that if this was some sort of fairytale it wouldn't have survived into its third millennium.
If at the end I have been wrong I still have lost nothing.
Are you basing this on text written about 60 years after his death, by folk who never met him and then translated and adopted to suit religious leaders agendas?
"However I feel that if this was some sort of fairytale it wouldn't have survived into its third millennium."
"Two things are infinite," Albert Einstein said. "The universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe."
Quote from: Hardy on September 13, 2017, 01:47:38 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 13, 2017, 11:14:24 AM
Proper order bc, and while you're at it, bugger Steven Hawking and every other cosmologist you can think of also.
I mean Tony says, "God created the world. That is, he made it out of nothing."
But Steven says, "He did on me arse, the world created itself. Matter appeared from nowhere and this is happening all the time."
I haven't read everything Prof. Hawking has written, but I haven't seen him quoted thus. I'm pretty sure he would say simply that we don't know what, if anything preceded the Big Bang.
I don't think it's a question that will easily be answered, but most sensible people see the logical fallacy in the God of the Gaps proposition, which assumes that everything we don't (yet) know is necessarily explained by God. The problem is, God is becoming more and more idle and redundant as we discover how the world works.
What was there before the Big Bang may be unimaginable but eventually mathematically explicable. That wouldn't be a unique state of affairs. Try imagining or visualising an imaginary number or a complex number. Yet, for example, we wouldn't have our electricity supply, much less computers without the mathematical explanation of them.
Or what about the wave/particle duality of light. Completely unimaginable but quite simply explicable for practical purposes. Like wise the Uncertainty Principle and quantum mechanics in general.
We're not as far along in understanding the mind, but all available research is pointing to the mind being the manifestation of the physical firing of neurons and no doubt we'll get there eventually and give God another six months of the year off all in one go.
He'll still be clocking in for a few minutes every few months, though to attend to the people who confuse science and philosophy, which is where nearly all of his work is concentrated these days. Science has made fairly good strides with the "How" question in the last 400 years. The philosophers have been at it for millennia with the "Why" question and they're still no further on. It's a harder question, though the answer may be simple.
Sorry Hardy, I meant to get back to you before now but fate, and a few Mayo exiles looking for match tickets, intervened.
The book in question is "The Grand Design," written by Stephen Hawking and the quote that interests me most is the following:
"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going."
You can read more about it here (http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2010/09/02/god-did-not-create-the-universe-gravity-did-says-stephen-hawking/)
I'm quite happy to accept that Stephen Hawking's IQ is a lot higher than mine and the same goes for many who work in the same field of research but in the end any theory remains unproven, unless backed up logical, deductive reasoning.
The trouble for me is that theoretical physicists have reached the stage of research where only illogical answers can be assumed. I know I'm stating this rather awkwardly but I feel that unless there is clear proof, backed by logical deduction, we can only assume that antimatter and black energy actually exist. According to the esteemed professor in question and many other brilliant minds, the cosmos came into being around 13.8 billion years ago. There appears to have been a set moment in time where matter spontaneously began appearing out of nowhere. Energy, time and space followed suit, unless I am greatly mistaken.
Now, as you put it, "I'm pretty sure he would say simply that we don't know what, if anything preceded the Big Bang."
Therein lies my problem or at least my scepticism. We don't know what, if anything preceded the Big Bang. According to Hawking, it was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics, Gravity brought the cosmos into being.
Here the Doubting Thomas syndrome kicks in.
If, because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and has created itself from nothing and the process of creation began at a specific "time" before time itself came into existence, then without doubt the good professor has to say that we simply don't what preceded the Big Bang.
In other words, all of his deductive research hangs on an unproven and unprovable thesis.
He certainly leaves us with more questions than answers.
In summation, Tony (I can never be sure that he is serious about anything he writes,) claims that an eternal force, aka. God, kickstarted Creation for some unknown reason of his own and seems to have left us to our own devices since then. Nothing that I have seen or heard convinces me that this is what actually happened. But the same can be said of the work of theoretical physicists, en masse, to date.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 13, 2017, 05:48:14 PM
Getting way too complicated.Quite simply my religious faith is simply based on the fact that Jesus Christ lived,died,and rose again,and this gives some purpose to another wise finite biological span.Now I know people will say that Jesus existence cannot be technically proved.However I feel that if this was some sort of fairytale it wouldn't have survived into its third millennium.
If at the end I have been wrong I still have lost nothing.
I think theres little doubt Jesus lived, and he sounded like a great man. But we sorta went overboard on everything we then attached to him. Including him coming back to life
Quote from: haranguerer on September 15, 2017, 11:29:19 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 13, 2017, 05:48:14 PM
Getting way too complicated.Quite simply my religious faith is simply based on the fact that Jesus Christ lived,died,and rose again,and this gives some purpose to another wise finite biological span.Now I know people will say that Jesus existence cannot be technically proved.However I feel that if this was some sort of fairytale it wouldn't have survived into its third millennium.
If at the end I have been wrong I still have lost nothing.
I think theres little doubt Jesus lived, and he sounded like a great man. But we sorta went overboard on everything we then attached to him. Including him coming back to life
Jaysus Chrisht lived. They fitted Jewish messiah narrative to him. He came out of a vagina after she got the ride but it had to be a Virgin birth . He had to rise again. So there was no body in the tomb.
He was made to fit the story. Most Jews didn't buy it. They still don't. But he was right time and right place .
Quote from: T Fearon on September 13, 2017, 05:48:14 PM
Getting way too complicated.Quite simply my religious faith is simply based on the fact that Jesus Christ lived,died,and rose again,and this gives some purpose to another wise finite biological span.Now I know people will say that Jesus existence cannot be technically proved.However I feel that if this was some sort of fairytale it wouldn't have survived into its third millennium.
If at the end I have been wrong I still have lost nothing.
???
Quote from: T Fearon on September 13, 2017, 05:48:14 PM
Getting way too complicated.Quite simply my religious faith is simply based on the fact that Jesus Christ lived,died,and rose again,and this gives some purpose to another wise finite biological span.Now I know people will say that Jesus existence cannot be technically proved.However I feel that if this was some sort of fairytale it wouldn't have survived into its third millennium.
If at the end I have been wrong I still have lost nothing.
Not so. You'll have lost the possibility of an eternity in heaven.
Quote from: sid waddell on September 15, 2017, 01:13:10 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 13, 2017, 05:48:14 PM
Getting way too complicated.Quite simply my religious faith is simply based on the fact that Jesus Christ lived,died,and rose again,and this gives some purpose to another wise finite biological span.Now I know people will say that Jesus existence cannot be technically proved.However I feel that if this was some sort of fairytale it wouldn't have survived into its third millennium.
If at the end I have been wrong I still have lost nothing.
Not so. You'll have lost the possibility of an eternity in heaven.
Tony will have booked the wrong Heaven.
This will be much worse than 2003.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zat9CRfUr-E
Quote from: T Fearon on September 13, 2017, 05:48:14 PM
Getting way too complicated.Quite simply my religious faith is simply based on the fact that Jesus Christ lived,died,and rose again,and this gives some purpose to another wise finite biological span.Now I know people will say that Jesus existence cannot be technically proved.However I feel that if this was some sort of fairytale it wouldn't have survived into its third millennium.
If at the end I have been wrong I still have lost nothing.
Krishna has probably lasted longer so can we deduct that he/she/it/them are even more genuine?
I am amazed how those who ridicule religion and faith become so exercised by those who are believers? Why do they even care?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 12, 2017, 10:31:43 PM
That's why it's called faith.Not logical,a mystery,cannot be proved or disproved.
What about likelihood?
Is there anything that you can point to that indicates that, as you believe that the universe was created by a god (ie the Christian or even catholic version) that magicked themselves into existence just beforehand and then hung around to oversee the affairs of man my reading thoughts, judging thoughts and intervening and getting terribly offended if people chose not to believe in him or ride the hole off their consenting adult partner outside marrige? And produced a son in the form a species that god got around to creating billions of years after he created the earth? And this was so the son could be murdered to redeem a sin that all children are born with rather than committed personally and was originally committed by 2 people that the omnipotent god would know did not exist?
Far fetched??
Quote from: T Fearon on September 12, 2017, 10:50:00 PM
I believe.There's millions like me.Simple as that
Sanity in numbers??
Quote from: armaghniac on September 13, 2017, 01:43:45 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 13, 2017, 12:13:29 AM
So she did consent. I finally got an answer, and not from Tony. Christ, Tony, it wouldn't have been so hard to give me an answer, would it?
You can't just throw rape into a conversation without serious cause. You cannot just say x raped y and require someone to deny it and you would not accept similar carryon from someone else.
God has plenty of time for rapists and rape facilitators. He singled them out as the best of men
Quote from: seafoid on September 15, 2017, 01:42:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 15, 2017, 01:13:10 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 13, 2017, 05:48:14 PM
Getting way too complicated.Quite simply my religious faith is simply based on the fact that Jesus Christ lived,died,and rose again,and this gives some purpose to another wise finite biological span.Now I know people will say that Jesus existence cannot be technically proved.However I feel that if this was some sort of fairytale it wouldn't have survived into its third millennium.
If at the end I have been wrong I still have lost nothing.
Not so. You'll have lost the possibility of an eternity in heaven.
Tony will have booked the wrong Heaven.
This will be much worse than 2003.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zat9CRfUr-E
Ah it couldn't be. 2003 was the year in which it turned out God was a Tyrone man.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 13, 2017, 05:48:14 PM
Getting way too complicated.Quite simply my religious faith is simply based on the fact that Jesus Christ lived,died,and rose again,and this gives some purpose to another wise finite biological span.Now I know people will say that Jesus existence cannot be technically proved.However I feel that if this was some sort of fairytale it wouldn't have survived into its third millennium.
If at the end I have been wrong I still have lost nothing.
Forget about what you have lost and focus on what others were deprived of.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 01:50:24 PM
I am amazed how those who ridicule religion and faith become so exercised by those who are believers? Why do they even care?
I don't care about what you believe.
I do care about some of your actions and how you would have others act.
On a daily basis you add to human misery.
Maybe you feel justified
I have no control over what others do,nor has any other believer.Nor would I want to.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 07:34:14 PM
I have no control over what others do,nor has any other believer.Nor would I want to.
except if gays want to get married
Gays can get married in the UK or the South.Why do they want a marriage,a church based sacrament,when they are in conflict with the Church's teaching?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 08:12:51 PM
Gays can get married in the UK or the South.Why do they want a marriage,a church based sacrament,when they are in conflict with the Church's teaching?
Gay marriage is mostly about undermining traditional marriage, not about any relationship between the people concerned.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 15, 2017, 09:29:32 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 08:12:51 PM
Gays can get married in the UK or the South.Why do they want a marriage,a church based sacrament,when they are in conflict with the Church's teaching?
Gay marriage is mostly about undermining traditional marriage, not about any relationship between the people concerned.
Anybody who feels that "gay marriage" undermines their own "straight marriage" is already living in a marriage that has been undermined by one or both of the participants themselves.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 08:12:51 PM
Gays can get married in the UK or the South.Why do they want a marriage,a church based sacrament,when they are in conflict with the Church's teaching?
Marriage is a civic institution with an optional religious component for those who want it.
Marriage was invented by God and derives from a faith base.Gay supremacists having got civil partnerships now just want to rub the noses of people of faith by polluting what is a Holy Sacrament. Why? What is the difference for them between Civil Partmership and Marriage?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 08:12:51 PM
Gays can get married in the UK or the South.Why do they want a marriage,a church based sacrament,when they are in conflict with the Church's teaching?
https://youtu.be/qSKjDg2I_MA
Porn destroys more marriages than lesbians do. Maybe that is Tony's little secret
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2017, 12:41:26 AM
Marriage was invented by God and derives from a faith base.Gay supremacists having got civil partnerships now just want to rub the noses of people of faith by polluting what is a Holy Sacrament. Why? What is the difference for them between Civil Partmership and Marriage?
Property ownership came into vogue when people started farming. I think the pagan gods had first dibs, Tony. You would have to havé a word with the Bodach.
Quote from: seafoid on September 16, 2017, 12:42:05 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 08:12:51 PM
Gays can get married in the UK or the South.Why do they want a marriage,a church based sacrament,when they are in conflict with the Church's teaching?
https://youtu.be/qSKjDg2I_MA
Porn destroys more marriages than lesbians do. Maybe that is Tony's little secret
Lesbian porn?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2017, 12:41:26 AM
Marriage was invented by God and derives from a faith base.Gay supremacists having got civil partnerships now just want to rub the noses of people of faith by polluting what is a Holy Sacrament. Why? What is the difference for them between Civil Partmership and Marriage?
Was gay sex invented by God?
Quote from: sid waddell on September 16, 2017, 12:51:17 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2017, 12:41:26 AM
Marriage was invented by God and derives from a faith base.Gay supremacists having got civil partnerships now just want to rub the noses of people of faith by polluting what is a Holy Sacrament. Why? What is the difference for them between Civil Partmership and Marriage?
Was gay sex invented by God?
No obviously but if ever a human being could be made by two dudes putting from the rough Sidley, my money would be on you being the progeny!
I have never encountered a more liberal human being in my life, well played sir, well played!
Quote from: sid waddell on September 15, 2017, 11:15:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 15, 2017, 09:29:32 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 08:12:51 PM
Gays can get married in the UK or the South.Why do they want a marriage,a church based sacrament,when they are in conflict with the Church's teaching?
Gay marriage is mostly about undermining traditional marriage, not about any relationship between the people concerned.
Anybody who feels that "gay marriage" undermines their own "straight marriage" is already living in a marriage that has been undermined by one or both of the participants themselves.
Sidney does your hubby know you are acting the cod on this forum???
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 15, 2017, 11:23:55 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 08:12:51 PM
Gays can get married in the UK or the South.Why do they want a marriage,a church based sacrament,when they are in conflict with the Church's teaching?
Marriage is a civic institution with an optional religious component for those who want it.
Since when?
Quote from: stew on September 16, 2017, 01:11:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 16, 2017, 12:51:17 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2017, 12:41:26 AM
Marriage was invented by God and derives from a faith base.Gay supremacists having got civil partnerships now just want to rub the noses of people of faith by polluting what is a Holy Sacrament. Why? What is the difference for them between Civil Partmership and Marriage?
Was gay sex invented by God?
No obviously but if ever a human being could be made by two dudes putting from the rough Sidley, my money would be on you being the progeny!
I have never encountered a more liberal human being in my life, well played sir, well played!
Then again, you don't get out very much.
Quote from: sid waddell on September 16, 2017, 10:54:28 AM
Quote from: stew on September 16, 2017, 01:11:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 16, 2017, 12:51:17 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2017, 12:41:26 AM
Marriage was invented by God and derives from a faith base.Gay supremacists having got civil partnerships now just want to rub the noses of people of faith by polluting what is a Holy Sacrament. Why? What is the difference for them between Civil Partmership and Marriage?
Was gay sex invented by God?
No obviously but if ever a human being could be made by two dudes putting from the rough Sidley, my money would be on you being the progeny!
I have never encountered a more liberal human being in my life, well played sir, well played!
Then again, you don't get out very much.
I know! Right?
::) ::) ::)
Quote from: sid waddell on September 15, 2017, 11:15:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 15, 2017, 09:29:32 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 08:12:51 PM
Gays can get married in the UK or the South.Why do they want a marriage,a church based sacrament,when they are in conflict with the Church's teaching?
Gay marriage is mostly about undermining traditional marriage, not about any relationship between the people concerned.
Anybody who feels that "gay marriage" undermines their own "straight marriage" is already living in a marriage that has been undermined by one or both of the participants themselves.
Poor poor Sid. No chance of you getting married to either sex I'd say.
Quote from: punt kick on September 16, 2017, 11:17:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 15, 2017, 11:15:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 15, 2017, 09:29:32 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 08:12:51 PM
Gays can get married in the UK or the South.Why do they want a marriage,a church based sacrament,when they are in conflict with the Church's teaching?
Gay marriage is mostly about undermining traditional marriage, not about any relationship between the people concerned.
Anybody who feels that "gay marriage" undermines their own "straight marriage" is already living in a marriage that has been undermined by one or both of the participants themselves.
Poor poor Sid. No chance of you getting married to either sex I'd say.
It's always great to debate with intelligent people.
Quote from: sid waddell on September 16, 2017, 11:35:05 AM
Quote from: punt kick on September 16, 2017, 11:17:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 15, 2017, 11:15:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 15, 2017, 09:29:32 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 08:12:51 PM
Gays can get married in the UK or the South.Why do they want a marriage,a church based sacrament,when they are in conflict with the Church's teaching?
Gay marriage is mostly about undermining traditional marriage, not about any relationship between the people concerned.
Anybody who feels that "gay marriage" undermines their own "straight marriage" is already living in a marriage that has been undermined by one or both of the participants themselves.
Poor poor Sid. No chance of you getting married to either sex I'd say.
It's always great to debate with intelligent people.
Except you can't debate, just through unfounded accusations around with no evidence to back them up. Poor poor Sid with his mate from a traveller background. The chic liberalism of it all. ;D ;D
Quote from: punt kick on September 16, 2017, 11:49:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 16, 2017, 11:35:05 AM
Quote from: punt kick on September 16, 2017, 11:17:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 15, 2017, 11:15:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 15, 2017, 09:29:32 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 08:12:51 PM
Gays can get married in the UK or the South.Why do they want a marriage,a church based sacrament,when they are in conflict with the Church's teaching?
Gay marriage is mostly about undermining traditional marriage, not about any relationship between the people concerned.
Anybody who feels that "gay marriage" undermines their own "straight marriage" is already living in a marriage that has been undermined by one or both of the participants themselves.
Poor poor Sid. No chance of you getting married to either sex I'd say.
It's always great to debate with intelligent people.
Except you can't debate, just through unfounded accusations around with no evidence to back them up. Poor poor Sid with his mate from a traveller background. The chic liberalism of it all. ;D ;D
You prove my point with every post you make.
Quote from: stew on September 16, 2017, 01:14:39 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 15, 2017, 11:23:55 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 08:12:51 PM
Gays can get married in the UK or the South.Why do they want a marriage,a church based sacrament,when they are in conflict with the Church's teaching?
Marriage is a civic institution with an optional religious component for those who want it.
Since when?
Since governments and the legal system got involved?
Unlike, say, communion or confirmation or confession.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2017, 12:41:26 AM
Marriage was invented by God and derives from a faith base.Gay supremacists having got civil partnerships now just want to rub the noses of people of faith by polluting what is a Holy Sacrament. Why? What is the difference for them between Civil Partmership and Marriage?
Marriage was invented by God?
Whichever God, should have patented it
Read an article today by Belfast Telegraph's Religious correspondent,Alf Mc Creary,on the courage of atheists,on their death bed,rejecting God,and potentially risking a very very bad eternity.As he said a believer once said to an atheist, "If you're right neither of us will have an after life,but if I'm right you'll know very quickly of God's existence!"
Your faith seems to be little more than you hedging your bets.
It is vibrant,but I would not deny that the prospect an afterlife/eternity,and to spend it in a good place is a key motivator.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2017, 05:56:48 PM
Read an article today by Belfast Telegraph's Religious correspondent,Alf Mc Creary,on the courage of atheists,on their death bed,rejecting God,and potentially risking a very very bad eternity.As he said a believer once said to an atheist, "If you're right neither of us will have an after life,but if I'm right you'll know very quickly of God's existence!"
I always found that to be a cowardly stance to be honest Tony, and I am no lover of atheism.
Atheism is cowardly? Risking a lost eternity through non belief? I would never be brave enough to take that risk.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2017, 09:33:03 PM
Atheism is cowardly? Risking a lost eternity through non belief? I would never be brave enough to take that risk.
The Christian God is an invention. Nature has always called the shots. Our lifespan is a thing that nature decided. God has nothing to do with it. Christianity puts humans at the centre. This is nonsense.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2017, 06:48:58 PM
It is vibrant,but I would not deny that the prospect an afterlife/eternity,and to spend it in a good place is a key motivator.
What do you think an afterlife / (positive) eternity will be like? Would you still be aware of Celtic getting pumped in future Champions League campaigns, such as the trouncing the other night by PSG?
I have no idea.Celtic would still be pumping Linfield I guess,and Linfield season ticket holders would still be throwing bottles at opposing players and getting off scot free.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2017, 11:49:50 PM
I have no idea.Celtic would still be pumping Linfield I guess,and Linfield season ticket holders would still be throwing bottles at opposing players and getting off scot free.
But would you still be aware of it you f**king clown?
Quote from: michaelg on September 16, 2017, 11:56:54 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2017, 11:49:50 PM
I have no idea.Celtic would still be pumping Linfield I guess,and Linfield season ticket holders would still be throwing bottles at opposing players and getting off scot free.
But would you still be aware of it you f**king clown?
;D
I wonder do they have sky sports in the afterlife or would you still have to use an Android box.
The attacks on the Catholic faith on this thread amounts to racism/sectarianism and hate attack. If this was Jewish thread it would be in the main news. I for one was reared a Catholic but probably an atheist right now. I have no reason to stand up for any religion, I support gay rights but also feel abortion is wrong. I have many conflicting views and he many moralistic views that most likely contradict each other. I too feel Mr Fearon does show himself to be very ignorant to many views especially (paedophilia). However we seem only happy to bash the low hanging fruit that is the Catholic Church when in recent times its obvious that paedophilia and sexual exploitation is rife within all aspects and cultures within western society. Anglican church, nobility, celebrities, premier/football league clubs.
My views on paedophilia are ones of total revulsion.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 17, 2017, 07:20:25 AM
My views on paedophilia are ones of total revulsion.
Those of the catholic church has always been to cover it up and protect the perpetrator. These are the people that are suppose to be God's disciples on Earth!
They sadly tried to protect the reputation of the Church and did not consider impact on victims.Totally wrong,but it's the Catholic Faith I adhere to,not so much the clerics.All individuals will have to answer to God for their failings,including Clerics
I really need to stay off the internet when drunk ::)
Quote from: T Fearon on September 17, 2017, 10:08:39 AM
They sadly tried to protect the reputation of the Church and did not consider impact on victims.Totally wrong,but it's the Catholic Faith I adhere to,not so much the clerics.All individuals will have to answer to God for their failings,including Clerics
The Catholic faith is a man.made invention by those with their individual agendas. You say you are a Christian yet your posts would suggest you are as Christian as Sid Widdley is intelligent. Did you not blame the kids and their parents for being raped by priests.
Quote from: punt kick on September 17, 2017, 12:07:04 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 17, 2017, 10:08:39 AM
They sadly tried to protect the reputation of the Church and did not consider impact on victims.Totally wrong,but it's the Catholic Faith I adhere to,not so much the clerics.All individuals will have to answer to God for their failings,including Clerics
The Catholic faith is a man.made invention by those with their individual agendas. You say you are a Christian yet your posts would suggest you are as Christian as Sid Widdley is intelligent. Did you not blame the kids and their parents for being raped by priests.
He did and supported the 'man' who covered up the rape of children.
No.I merely presented the logic of the argument, that if the then Fr John Brady was to be berated for not reporting allegations of child abuse heard by him to the authorities, then the parents were equally culpable,given that they too were aware of the same allegations.This is in no way to condone child abuse,or to suggest in any way shape or form that it should have been covered up and the perpetrators protected.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 17, 2017, 12:12:39 PM
No.I merely presented the logic of the argument, that if the then Fr John Brady was to be berated for not reporting allegations of child abuse heard by him to the authorities, then the parents were equally culpable,given that they too were aware of the same allegations.This is in no way to condone child abuse,or to suggest in any way shape or form that it should have been covered up and the perpetrators protected.
If any other organisation had committed the crimes and covered up as the catholic church it would have been disbanded....
Including the BBC,British Governments,Protestant Churches etc? As someone said this has been rife right through society,and in the past has been woefully mishandled.
It's only been "mishandled" in as much as the truth has gradually emerged, despite the best efforts of the Catholic Church & its acolytes. Falling attendances, collections, vocations.......goodnight Vienna.
You don't understand.The Church is in the business of saving souls.Those who leave are jeopardising themselves.The Church has admitted its failings and has robust policies and procedures in place to safeguard children.
No it hasn't & I do not give a crap....my funeral instructions say "no priests no bishops, rabbis, mullahs". I am going to hell & I simply do not give a toss.
And while you're on about it, if the Catholic Church is all "sorted", why was George Pell somewhat reluctant to go back to Australia?
Look,no one,believer or atheist,in their right mind, has anything but contempt for paedophiles who masqueraded as priests.My faith as I said before is in the Church's beliefs ,derived from the Apostles,and the vast majority of priests who are decent and Christian to the core.
Like every other human organisation The Church has shysters who don't play by the rules.This handful should not be a barometer of the Church,or any other organisation.Is the entire Garda Siochanna corrupt,because some members colluded with the IRA,or the PSNI/RUC for widespread collusion in the murders of innocent people?
Judging by the plethora of clerics,catholic and otherwise,currently in jail all over the world for abuse crimes,there is no hiding place or cover ups nowadays,as there never should have been.
The catholic church itself provided the hiding place, by moving paedos from parish to parish & organised the cover up. This usually involved those at a higher level... bishops/ cardinals. It goes all the way, from bottom to top.
Now we have the scandals of the mass unmarked graveyards in Galway, Lanarkshire, bottom of Milltown. The Christian love & support of the Catholic church truly knows no bounds.
A completely corrupt institution, for centuries, that used its unchecked power to cover up & deceive.
There is an acute difference between sheltering paedophiles and trying to protect the Church's reputation.The Church was wrong as it admits itself.But I'll ask again is an entire Police Force worthy of denigration because of the actions of one small part in colluding with murderers?
"'We are not here to cover the ass of the Vatican.'"
Were those who died in the famine not buried in mass graves? That was sadly the process at the time.
The object of the game is for panellists to talk for sixty seconds on a given subject, "without hesitation, repetition or deviation".
That applies to a radio programme called "Just A Minute" but it would be great if it could be brought in on this forum as well. Oh & hypocrisy could very well make an appearance.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 01:33:31 PM
Were those who died in the famine not buried in mass graves? That was sadly the process at the time.
There's quite a time difference between An Gorta Mór and the 1950's
Things like this wouldn't happen in Ireland today.But I got plenty of corporal punishment at Primary School, no doubt this would be classified as child abuse today
And sure look how you turned out ;D
They didn't hit him hard enough.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 04:47:17 PM
Things like this wouldn't happen in Ireland today.But I got plenty of corporal punishment at Primary School, no doubt this would be classified as child abuse today
Must be a portydown thing Fr McQuillan loved the abuse too.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 04:47:17 PM
Things like this wouldn't happen in Ireland today.But I got plenty of corporal punishment at Primary School, no doubt this would be classified as child abuse today
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2017, 05:56:48 PM
Read an article today by Belfast Telegraph's Religious correspondent,Alf Mc Creary,on the courage of atheists,on their death bed,rejecting God,and potentially risking a very very bad eternity.As he said a believer once said to an atheist, "If you're right neither of us will have an after life,but if I'm right you'll know very quickly of God's existence!"
Tell me this Tony (and i don't normally get involved in these debates), i was reared a Catholic. Went to Catholic schools and went to my mass every week (was made to go), now as i have got older i go to mass for weddings and funerals and TBH i have no interest in religion and when i think of some of the things that was written and preach for me it's kinda funny. But my point is if i'm not a practising Catholic but lead a decent life (being a decent Christian) and when i die and i face my maker (see above) and it turns out that there is a God and everything Catholics preach and pray for is true then surely GOD will then forgive me for not believing in him (I'm sure that's not the worst sin in the world ;)) and let me in to dine at the top table with your fine self Tony...You know what i'm saying? After all it's all about forgiving those who have sinned and he who has not sinned cast the first stone etc etc
You need to repent first.Of course if you don't believe and trust in him as your saviour in the first place you cannot expect to be saved.That's the teaching of all Churches.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 10:29:02 PM
You need to repent first.Of course if you don't believe and trust in him as your saviour in the first place you cannot expect to be saved.That's the teaching of all Churches.
So murderers, paedophiles, rapists etc can repent and get in the pearly gates no problem, whereas those who have led a good life are excluded?
According to scripture,and the beliefs of all Christian Churches,if the repentance is sincere and remorse genuine,forgiveness will be given.It is important to note the words sincere and genuine.Did not Jesus himself forgive a person being crucified alongside him,owing to that person,who had committed terrible deeds,acknowledging him as the saviour?
However not believing in God is tantamount to rejecting him and salvation,so sadly no matter how good a life one leads,under those circumstances,there can be no eternal reward
So what i'm reading and i believe I've read/seen this before the Catholic religion says it is more of a sin to not believe than to rape or murder someone. (please Lord forgive me for i have sinned, it's not that is didn't believe i was just too lazy to go to mass...swear to God).
Not only Catholic Church,all churches.Not too difficult a concept,how the hell (no pun intended) do you expect God to welcome you in the next life,when you didn't believe he existed in this one😂😂😂😂.
Did not Jesus tell people that he would say to people who rejected him,when they arrive at the Pearly Gates, "Go away, I never knew you"
Tenet of all Christian Churches and faith is very simple.
Believe in God and Jesus as your saviour.
Life your life as best you can accordingly on the basis of that firm belief.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 19, 2017, 08:13:29 AM
According to scripture,and the beliefs of all Christian Churches,if the repentance is sincere and remorse genuine,forgiveness will be given.It is important to note the words sincere and genuine.Did not Jesus himself forgive a person being crucified alongside him,owing to that person,who had committed terrible deeds,acknowledging him as the saviour?
However not believing in God is tantamount to rejecting him and salvation,so sadly no matter how good a life one leads,under those circumstances,there can be no eternal reward
What about priests who raped small children, they believed in God - are they ok for salvation?
Not unless they sincerely repented and God granted forgiveness.They are subject to God's laws just like everyone else
And your appointment to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was confirmed when, exactly?
It's very simple.Without belief in God and sincere repentance there is no hope of salvation
Sure the world only exists in our own mind anyway.
Most evil bastards in the world believed in some God. I'd rather not join that club.
Sure the only thing you can be certain about is your own mind.
Therefore you cannot know that the world outside your own mind exists...
So there's a chance that you created the world you know and it exists in your mind only.......
DEEP
Quote from: T Fearon on September 19, 2017, 01:54:09 PM
It's very simple.Without belief in God and sincere repentance there is no hope of salvation
Why does anyone need to be saved?
Quote from: The Gs Man on September 19, 2017, 03:28:17 PM
Sure the only thing you can be certain about is your own mind.
Therefore you cannot know that the world outside your own mind exists...
So there's a chance that you created the world you know and it exists in your mind only.......
DEEP
In my mind Laois are All Ireland Hurling Champions and Liverpool have won the league every year for the past 27 years. Is this the same for everyone?
Fearon is having some craic on here but I can't resist at the same time.
I always struggled with the definition of the word "believe" and Fearon's posts make it even more difficult.
How can someone say they believe in God yet state that "...... I would not deny that the prospect an afterlife/eternity,and to spend it in a good place is a key motivator" and "Atheism is cowardly? Risking a lost eternity through non belief? I would never be brave enough to take that risk."
Does anyone else consider this to be faith? Surely this is a case of backing a horse? Throw in his previous post "However I feel that if this was some sort of fairytale it wouldn't have survived into its third millennium" and this "belief" seems to be a really bad attempt at an educated guess.
Laoislad, If I hadn't consciously re-opened this thread and read your comment, it wouldn't exist anywhere outside of my mind.
My belief is also instinctive.Who created the World.Science tells us how but not why.Unlike a lot of posters here I am very comfortable with it.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 19, 2017, 04:01:44 PM
My belief is also instinctive.Who created the World.Science tells us how but not why.Unlike a lot of posters here I am very comfortable with it.
Comfortable with what?
Quote from: The Gs Man on September 19, 2017, 03:40:17 PM
Laoislad, If I hadn't consciously re-opened this thread and read your comment, it wouldn't exist anywhere outside of my mind.
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/tim-and-eric-mind-blown.gif)
Comfortable and entirely happy with my faith.No desire to argue with or ridicule others who don't share this belief
Quote from: T Fearon on September 19, 2017, 08:20:55 PM
Comfortable and entirely happy with my faith.No desire to argue with or ridicule others who don't share this belief
Bore them to a premature death instead though?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 19, 2017, 08:20:55 PM
Comfortable and entirely happy with my faith.No desire to argue with or ridicule others who don't share this belief
To be fair, you are quite happy to judge and discriminate against those people who don't share your belief.
I am only explaining the basic core beliefs of all Christian Churches and the basic of all is to actually believe in him
Quote from: michaelg on September 19, 2017, 10:13:53 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 19, 2017, 08:20:55 PM
Comfortable and entirely happy with my faith.No desire to argue with or ridicule others who don't share this belief
To be fair, you are quite happy to judge and discriminate against those people who don't share your belief.
Amen to that....
Quote from: T Fearon on September 19, 2017, 10:30:08 PM
I am only explaining the basic core beliefs of all Christian Churches and the basic of all is to actually believe in him
You believe in him in part because you don't want to take the risk of eternal hell. That is not faith in my book.
What is wrong with that? I also belive in him because I want the bliss of heaven.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 20, 2017, 10:42:47 AM
What is wrong with that? I also belive in him because I want the bliss of heaven.
If there's nothing wrong with it, then there's nothing particularly right about it either. You're (supposedly) trading faith for a reward/avoidance of penalty. I don't see such a quid quo pro arrangement as noble nor is the narcissistic alleged being who would offer and reward such a consequential bargain based in such a trivial judgement worthy of any admiration.
And of course that all presupposes that you can " choose" to believe.
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2017, 11:01:07 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 20, 2017, 10:42:47 AM
What is wrong with that? I also belive in him because I want the bliss of heaven.
If there's nothing wrong with it, then there's nothing particularly right about it either. You're (supposedly) trading faith for a reward/avoidance of penalty. I don't see such a quid quo pro arrangement as noble nor is the narcissistic alleged being who would offer and reward such a consequential bargain based in such a trivial judgement worthy of any admiration.
And of course that all presupposes that you can " choose" to believe.
Exactly.
If I believe in something here on earth, like a particular charity, it's because I can see the good that it does and I believe from what I've seen that my money will result in, what I perceive to be, good being done.
Fearon's faith is based on fear of the alternative.
They worrying thing for him is that an all-knowing God may see things as I do and send him downstairs with the rest of us for his complete missing of the point.
I believe if I commit murder I will be jailed for a substantial period.It is a deterrent.Similarly I believe in God's Laws (Commandments) because I believe he exists in the first place,and by abiding by his laws I will have a good eternity.But this will be won primarily due to my belief in him in the first place.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 20, 2017, 12:04:55 PM
I believe if I commit murder I will be jailed for a substantial period.It is a deterrent.Similarly I believe in God's Laws (Commandments) because I believe he exists in the first place,and by abiding by his laws I will have a good eternity.But this will be won primarily due to my belief in him in the first place.
How many steps back there did you just take. Let me just quote you again; "Risking a lost eternity through non belief? I would never be brave enough to take that risk."
Not being brave suggests fear. I fear a lost eternity and therefore I "believe". In fairness, it's a completely reasonable explanation. It doesn't matter if you admit it or not, God already knows.
I believe in God instinctively,not solely due to fear of a lost eternity,but positively as the supreme creator of mankind,and therefore wish to avail of his promise of eternal life.Nothing negative in this at all
Quote from: T Fearon on September 20, 2017, 12:33:25 PM
I believe in God instinctively,not solely due to fear of a lost eternity,but positively as the supreme creator of mankind,and therefore wish to avail of his promise of eternal life.Nothing negative in this at all
It's a pity that your perception isn't the one that matters. And "the supreme creator of mankind"? What division of Christianity is it you've signed up to again?
If you're so fond of proselytising, why did you not sign up professionally for the Rome Paedo Brigade years ago & make a career out of it? Or was the prospect of all the squealing you would have to do after lights out in the dorms of Maynooth such an alarming prospect that you didn't want to?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 20, 2017, 12:04:55 PM
I believe if I commit murder I will be jailed for a substantial period.It is a deterrent.Similarly I believe in God's Laws (Commandments) because I believe he exists in the first place,and by abiding by his laws I will have a good eternity.But this will be won primarily due to my belief in him in the first place.
Surely the taking of a life and its knock-on effects is the reason you don't commit murder? It is for me. The penalty doesn't enter into it. If I was guaranteed to NEVER be held responsible or suffer legal consequences, I still wouldn't do it.
Similarly, I don't need some mythical eternal judge and outcome (I.e. deterrent) to coerce me into being a decent human being in my everyday life. I would imagine you're the same, whether you realize it or not.
Yes I have a moral code.But the fear of punishment is undoubtedly a factor that restrains all of us.Great story in the Irish News today about two ladies,a former BBC Political correspondent and a Barrister,who gave up lucrative secular careers and all the trappings to become nuns.Are these two highly intelligent ladies to be viewed as cranks,fear driven,deluded,daft? I think not.Could it be a seed,as a result of a life experience,divine intervention,finally grew and led them to their true vocation which seems to have brought a contentment neither had previously known?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 20, 2017, 02:20:38 PM
Yes I have a moral code.But the fear of punishment is undoubtedly a factor that restrains all of us.Great story in the Irish News today about two ladies,a former BBC Political correspondent and a Barrister,who gave up lucrative secular careers and all the trappings to become nuns.Are these two highly intelligent ladies to be viewed as cranks,fear driven,deluded,daft? I think not.Could it be a seed,as a result of a life experience,divine intervention,finally grew and led them to their true vocation which seems to have brought a contentment neither had previously known?
It could be either. I haven't heard their explanation for it. If they said they were doing it as they weren't brave enough to chance not doing it then I'd say it's the former, like yourself.
Moderately.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 20, 2017, 03:28:17 PM
Moderately.
and you win every time so it could be classed as stealing or robbery ;)
I don't.It is a legitimate transaction.An investment in the hope of making a return and profit,like buying shares for example.
And given your biblical leanings, do you pay the tithe on your winnings, or do you just pocket the heap?
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on September 20, 2017, 06:24:11 PM
And given your biblical leanings, do you pay the tithe on your winnings, or do you just pocket the heap?
As that's probably not a deal breaker for heaven or hell, I'd imagine not. Yet another example of "believers" cherry picking what to believe.
There is about 6 billion people on Earth - about 2 Billion Christians - about 2 of them without sin, is the other 4 billion dammed simply because their parents weren't Christians?
The "bliss of heaven" cannot possibly be enjoyed for eternity, if there's the remotest chance of non-believers & similar riff raff getting admitted.
Non believers will not be admitted.The Bible makes that abundantly clear
What complete horseshite - still births, premature births, infant deaths - none of them get in as they too young to believe or not believe?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2017, 05:45:06 PM
Non believers will not be admitted.The Bible makes that abundantly clear
Eternal bliss. You're in heaven. I'm in hell & I don't have to listen to the absolute crap you spout. I just hope God has the patience of a saint. He will need it, to put up with you. Are there expulsions from heaven.....in case God needs a Plan B & grows weary of your nonsense after just a few millenia?
At what tipping point does god start getting pissed off when your own self-importance outweighs your belief in the deity? Does the deity remove access to the blissful eternal life, once your ego becomes so inflated, that it takes over the whole of god's creation?
Non believers will not be admitted.That is those who have reached the age of reason,heard the gospel and sadly rejected it.There also is no transfer market in or out of heaven.Scripture is clear about this.
As I get older I see more and more sense in the Calvinist doctrine of presdestination,i.e. Your eternal destination is mapped out by God before you are born.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2017, 09:04:34 PM
Non believers will not be admitted.That is those who have reached the age of reason,heard the gospel and sadly rejected it.There also is no transfer market in or out of heaven.Scripture is clear about this.
As I get older I see more and more sense in the Calvinist doctrine of presdestination,i.e. Your eternal destination is mapped out by God before you are born.
What about those who are deaf and blind?
Still capable of learning about the Gospel and heeding
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2017, 09:04:34 PM
Non believers will not be admitted.That is those who have reached the age of reason,heard the gospel and sadly rejected it.There also is no transfer market in or out of heaven.Scripture is clear about this.
As I get older I see more and more sense in the Calvinist doctrine of presdestination,i.e. Your eternal destination is mapped out by God before you are born.
Does that not mean then you can do whatever you want?
And the Jesuit pope's views on Calvinism are........?
Build a bonfire & burn 'em, like the good old days?
You remind me of the old Woolworths, in terms of theology....Pick & Mix. The more you open your trap, it's fair to say that you just appear to come over more & more as a complete idiot.
Not all of Protestantism is wrong.
Ooops, I'm dizzy. I've just gone back 500 years & there's a notice pinned on the door of Armagh Cathedral.
Addressed to "Father" Brady, perhaps?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2017, 09:51:43 PM
Not all of Protestantism is wrong.
Maybe shooting / blowing up Catholics just for fun since 1966 can be justified after all?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2017, 09:32:29 PM
Still capable of learning about the Gospel and heeding
How so?
Quote from: punt kick on September 21, 2017, 10:57:44 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2017, 09:32:29 PM
Still capable of learning about the Gospel and heeding
How so?
Is Farther Gerard McQuillan - child abuser but believer in God from Portydown going to heaven or hell - maybe he asked Sean Brady - facilitator of child abuse for forgiveness?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2017, 09:04:34 PM
As I get older I see more and more sense in the Calvinist doctrine of presdestination,i.e. Your eternal destination is mapped out by God before you are born.
Jasus he'll be marching on 12th July next.....
Catholicism and Protestantism share many key beliefs.In fact there's a lot more in common between the two than divides them.
That's why they need 30' walls between them then?
There is no walls between anyone only the cannon fodder on both sides who have been used politically.
(http://gordontredgold.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/piedpiper.jpg)
There are few people on here on the other side of the argument who post things of substance. I respect those who have done their research, thought for themselves and come to their own conclusions. I have no respect for the people who poke fun with mindless arguments and speak tastelessly of religion because they don't get it....
Bishop Robert Barron was invited to Facebook headquarters recently to give a talk - his subject was "having a religious argument". It would be worth your time to watch and see/hear what he has to say.
https://www.wordonfire.org/resources/lecture/how-to-have-a-religious-argument-facebook-hq/5593/ (https://www.wordonfire.org/resources/lecture/how-to-have-a-religious-argument-facebook-hq/5593/)
Quote from: The Iceman on September 22, 2017, 02:37:07 PM
There are few people on here on the other side of the argument who post things of substance. I respect those who have done their research, thought for themselves and come to their own conclusions. I have no respect for the people who poke fun with mindless arguments and speak tastelessly of religion because they don't get it....
Bishop Robert Barron was invited to Facebook headquarters recently to give a talk - his subject was "having a religious argument". It would be worth your time to watch and see/hear what he has to say.
https://www.wordonfire.org/resources/lecture/how-to-have-a-religious-argument-facebook-hq/5593/ (https://www.wordonfire.org/resources/lecture/how-to-have-a-religious-argument-facebook-hq/5593/)
Unfortunately being born a catholic - too much of my valuable time was wasted on Religious matters - I am not going to waste anymore reading about it. It is all a load of shite! The earth is about 4.5 billion years old but the Bible says it is about 6000 created in a week - what a load of bollocks.
Quote from: punt kick on September 22, 2017, 03:24:31 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on September 22, 2017, 02:37:07 PM
There are few people on here on the other side of the argument who post things of substance. I respect those who have done their research, thought for themselves and come to their own conclusions. I have no respect for the people who poke fun with mindless arguments and speak tastelessly of religion because they don't get it....
Bishop Robert Barron was invited to Facebook headquarters recently to give a talk - his subject was "having a religious argument". It would be worth your time to watch and see/hear what he has to say.
https://www.wordonfire.org/resources/lecture/how-to-have-a-religious-argument-facebook-hq/5593/ (https://www.wordonfire.org/resources/lecture/how-to-have-a-religious-argument-facebook-hq/5593/)
he talks about exactly that in the video...
Unfortunately being born a catholic - too much of my valuable time was wasted on Religious matters - I am not going to waste anymore reading about it. It is all a load of shite! The earth is about 4.5 billion years old but the Bible says it is about 6000 created in a week - what a load of bollocks.
Stupid Punt,believes everything scientists (who are mostly atheist)say.I prefer the heartwarming stories like the one in the paper yesterday,about an ordinary man from Omagh,in his eighties,who has been bringing people to Lourdes for 40 years,and was awarded a medal from the Mayor of Lourdes (an award usually reserved for ambassadors).The man told of the numerous miracles he'd witnessed,many people for whom the Doctors (scientists) had no hope,were miraculously cured.
"A load of shite"
"A load if bollocks"
2 very scientific rational arguments :D
Still intellectually superior to the constant drivel that the apologists for the Rome paedo brigade come out with.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 23, 2017, 10:48:49 AM
Stupid Punt,believes everything scientists (who are mostly atheist)say.I prefer the heartwarming stories like the one in the paper yesterday,about an ordinary man from Omagh,in his eighties,who has been bringing people to Lourdes for 40 years,and was awarded a medal from the Mayor of Lourdes (an award usually reserved for ambassadors).The man told of the numerous miracles he'd witnessed,many people for whom the Doctors (scientists) had no hope,were miraculously cured.
I doubt he witnessed any miracles of Church Hierarchy reporting their priests raping small children.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 23, 2017, 10:48:49 AM
Stupid Punt,believes everything scientists (who are mostly atheist)say.I prefer the heartwarming stories like the one in the paper yesterday,about an ordinary man from Omagh,in his eighties,who has been bringing people to Lourdes for 40 years,and was awarded a medal from the Mayor of Lourdes (an award usually reserved for ambassadors).The man told of the numerous miracles he'd witnessed,many people for whom the Doctors (scientists) had no hope,were miraculously cured.
As opposed to intellectual Tony who believes everything in a book written thousands of years ago, about a man none of the authors met or knew.
Quote from: Rossfan on September 23, 2017, 11:28:21 AM
"A load of shite"
"A load if bollocks"
2 very scientific rational arguments :D
As rational as believing in God!
Faith in God is not rational,because it cannot be proved.If science is so wonderful why hasn't it solved all the world's problems?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 23, 2017, 10:10:15 PM
Faith in God is not rational,because it cannot be proved.If science is so wonderful why hasn't it solved all the world's problems?
Too many fuckwits believing in God and killing all round them because of some kibbler they don't know exists!
Quote from: T Fearon on September 23, 2017, 10:10:15 PM
Faith in God is not rational,because it cannot be proved.If science is so wonderful why hasn't it solved all the world's problems?
9 hours for that reply - I doubt you believe in anything but your own self importance, maybe a portydown thing.
It is amazing that there is no gay or lesbian saint
http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/hopes-irishamerican-priest-who-died-during-911-attacks-will-be-named-worlds-first-openlygay-saint-36159179.html
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 08:12:51 PM
Why do they want a marriage,a church based sacrament,when they are in conflict with the Church's teaching?
Marriage is a legal process. It need not be in the flannel of a sacrament. In fact the church sacrament stands for exactly zero in law.
What percentage of people that go through the sacrament are not in conflict with the church's teachings on a great number of things.
Your argument is not threadbare. Its threadless
Quote from: armaghniac on September 15, 2017, 09:29:32 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 15, 2017, 08:12:51 PM
Gays can get married in the UK or the South.Why do they want a marriage,a church based sacrament,when they are in conflict with the Church's teaching?
Gay marriage is mostly about undermining traditional marriage, not about any relationship between the people concerned.
Your unique insight is truly illuminating
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2017, 12:41:26 AM
Marriage was invented by God and derives from a faith base.Gay supremacists having got civil partnerships now just want to rub the noses of people of faith by polluting what is a Holy Sacrament. Why? What is the difference for them between Civil Partmership and Marriage?
You don't understand what a supremacist is do you.
Your ignorance is staggering
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2017, 05:56:48 PM
Read an article today by Belfast Telegraph's Religious correspondent,Alf Mc Creary,on the courage of atheists,on their death bed,rejecting God,and potentially risking a very very bad eternity.As he said a believer once said to an atheist, "If you're right neither of us will have an after life,but if I'm right you'll know very quickly of God's existence!"
This god of yours sounds repulsive.
What will his take be on someone who did well by others but just couldn't see any evidence for there being a god?
How will this contrast with someone you believed in god but was shabby in his treatment of people?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2017, 06:48:58 PM
It is vibrant,but I would not deny that the prospect an afterlife/eternity,and to spend it in a good place is a key motivator.
Your belief in god seems to be based on an inability to come to terms with your mortality. Wanting something to be true seems to be enough to make it true and proven.
Was Santa good the the year?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2017, 09:33:03 PM
Atheism is cowardly? Risking a lost eternity through non belief? I would never be brave enough to take that risk.
Just when you think Tony's repulsive social views could not be more disgusting he gives you an insight in the selfish, grubby little basis for the whole thing.
Truly awful
Quote from: T Fearon on September 17, 2017, 10:08:39 AM
They sadly tried to protect the reputation of the Church and did not consider impact on victims.Totally wrong,but it's the Catholic Faith I adhere to,not so much the clerics.All individuals will have to answer to God for their failings,including Clerics
What you going to do if St Peter stops and says belief isn't the big deal as it's easily faked or hedged. The big deal is how you treat the planet and the life forms on it. The dossier on your social views is then produced. Can the colour drain from a corpse after a 2 day wake?
Look.I believe a man called Jesus existed,died and rose again.Throughout his life and elsewhere in the Bible an eternal reward is promised to those who believe in Jesus as their saviour and turn away from sin.What is wrong with wanting a good eternity? Look at the effort most people put in to have a good but relatively short time span on earth.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 17, 2017, 08:29:46 PM
You don't understand.The Church is in the business of saving souls.Those who leave are jeopardising themselves.The Church has admitted its failings and has robust policies and procedures in place to safeguard children.
Abuse in any organisation was and is wrong.
What sets the Catholic Church apart is that I don't believe there was ever any case of the BBC hierarchy ever reacting to evidence of abuse in Shepherd's Bush by moving the offender to Bristol or the Scottish Isles because abusing kids there was more acceptable. I don't think there was ever a case of the BBC reorganising and moving assets to shelter them from victims. I don't think the leaders of the BBC ever claimed to be moral instructors of the people.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 10:29:02 PM
You need to repent first.Of course if you don't believe and trust in him as your saviour in the first place you cannot expect to be saved.That's the teaching of all Churches.
Yes and its staggeringly stupid. As well as morally corrupt
Quote from: LCohen on September 24, 2017, 03:04:28 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 10:29:02 PM
You need to repent first.Of course if you don't believe and trust in him as your saviour in the first place you cannot expect to be saved.That's the teaching of all Churches.
Yes and its staggeringly stupid. As well as morally corrupt
a form of social control then take the peoples money and molest their children. Cults
11,760 posts.....repetitive, inane ould shite & you get dubbed a "hero member"? Anybody else would have been banned.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 19, 2017, 08:13:29 AM
According to scripture,and the beliefs of all Christian Churches,if the repentance is sincere and remorse genuine,forgiveness will be given.It is important to note the words sincere and genuine.Did not Jesus himself forgive a person being crucified alongside him,owing to that person,who had committed terrible deeds,acknowledging him as the saviour?
However not believing in God is tantamount to rejecting him and salvation,so sadly no matter how good a life one leads,under those circumstances,there can be no eternal reward
So this moral god weighs belief in him above goodness. Sounds deranged. His company for eternity sounds discomforting
Quote from: T Fearon on September 19, 2017, 01:54:09 PM
It's very simple.Without belief in God and sincere repentance there is no hope of salvation
Evidence please?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 20, 2017, 10:42:47 AM
What is wrong with that? I also belive in him because I want the bliss of heaven.
Faith is I think lissummon will win the Ulster senior club championship because I want them to win the Ulster senior club football championship.
You see the problem
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2017, 02:01:43 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 20, 2017, 12:04:55 PM
I believe if I commit murder I will be jailed for a substantial period.It is a deterrent.Similarly I believe in God's Laws (Commandments) because I believe he exists in the first place,and by abiding by his laws I will have a good eternity.But this will be won primarily due to my belief in him in the first place.
Surely the taking of a life and its knock-on effects is the reason you don't commit murder? It is for me. The penalty doesn't enter into it. If I was guaranteed to NEVER be held responsible or suffer legal consequences, I still wouldn't do it.
Similarly, I don't need some mythical eternal judge and outcome (I.e. deterrent) to coerce me into being a decent human being in my everyday life. I would imagine you're the same, whether you realize it or not.
But Tony is not moral.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2017, 05:45:06 PM
Non believers will not be admitted.The Bible makes that abundantly clear
The bible makes a lot of things abundantly clear. And you don't believe them.
Why are you so exercised by my beliefs? Multi posts? Why? If someone posts things I don't believe in I am totally unmoved.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2017, 09:32:29 PM
Still capable of learning about the Gospel and heeding
How to the deaf AND blind get in?
Can god be prosecuted under the Disability Discrimination Act? Or just his earthly agents?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 23, 2017, 10:48:49 AM
Stupid Punt,believes everything scientists (who are mostly atheist)say.I prefer the heartwarming stories like the one in the paper yesterday,about an ordinary man from Omagh,in his eighties,who has been bringing people to Lourdes for 40 years,and was awarded a medal from the Mayor of Lourdes (an award usually reserved for ambassadors).The man told of the numerous miracles he'd witnessed,many people for whom the Doctors (scientists) had no hope,were miraculously cured.
How many miracles does the church claim at Lourdes?
How many were incurable?
How many limbs grew back?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 23, 2017, 10:10:15 PM
Faith in God is not rational,because it cannot be proved.If science is so wonderful why hasn't it solved all the world's problems?
At least it's trying. Humans ain't perfect, all knowing or all powerful. If they were they would have no excuse
Quote from: LCohen on September 24, 2017, 03:13:14 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 20, 2017, 10:42:47 AM
What is wrong with that? I also belive in him because I want the bliss of heaven.
Faith is I think lissummon will win the Ulster senior club championship because I want them to win the Ulster senior club football championship.
You see the problem
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2017, 02:47:35 PM
Look.I believe a man called Jesus existed,died and rose again.Throughout his life and elsewhere in the Bible an eternal reward is promised to those who believe in Jesus as their saviour and turn away from sin.What is wrong with wanting a good eternity? Look at the effort most people put in to have a good but relatively short time span on earth.
In answer Tony does not see the problem. He just restates it
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2017, 03:21:42 PM
Why are you so exercised by my beliefs? Multi posts? Why? If someone posts things I don't believe in I am totally unmoved.
I have explained many times that I am not concerned in your beliefs. I am concerned by your actions which are in turn linked to your motivations.
But why are you concerned? If you don't believe fair enough,it doesn't bother me.Why are you ranting on?
What actions?Motivations?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2017, 03:34:26 PM
But why are you concerned? If you don't believe fair enough,it doesn't bother me.Why are you ranting on?
Ranting? Define ?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2017, 03:35:09 PM
What actions?Motivations?
The social positions you take. The discriminations you advocate. The impacts on others lives.
The motivations include it must be true because it's in the bible (but an acknowledgment that other things in the bible are not true).
Your claim that you are immune from the necessary burden of proof that applies to other seeking to influence debate or public policy needs to be called out for the horse shit it is
My opposition to certain things are based on a morality code informed by my beliefs.If a majority of people in a jurisdiction share these,that's called democracy.Are people who vote Conservative,due to believing they will be better off (inevitably at the expense of others),to be condemned and ranted against?
Tony Fearon is an ideologue. You cannot argue logic with an ideologue.
You would have more success training a calf to do the Leaving Cert.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2017, 03:57:50 PM
My opposition to certain things are based on a morality code informed by my beliefs.If a majority of people in a jurisdiction share these,that's called democracy.Are people who vote Conservative,due to believing they will be better off (inevitably at the expense of others),to be condemned and ranted against?
Tony you are all over the show here. You continue to avoid replying when you can see the game is up. Then you introduce this democracy thing. When democracy produces results I don't like I used reasoned arguments backed by evidence to influence the future. I don't always succeed. That is manifestly not what you do.
When eventually there is a referendum on marriage equality in NI you will lose and then you will continue to advocate democracy?
Add rant to the list of words you don't understand
Quote from: seafoid on September 24, 2017, 04:17:50 PM
Tony Fearon is an ideologue. You cannot argue logic with an ideologue.
You would have more success training a calf to do the Leaving Cert.
All true. But then again I'm not trying to convince Tony if anything. Even if could see he was wrong he would never admit to it
I have an unshakeable faith,and the illogical rantings of someone will certainly not dilute it in any way.Christians have had to accept a lot of social change and are fighting to have all the remaining vestiges of christianity in public life preserved.
There is no group more disadvantaged or discriminated against in the modern era than Christians.Are you going to defend them and lobby for their rights?
In a word......no.
Why am I not surprised.🙄
Stop playing the victim - you do such a classy job & present such a well argued viewpoint as the self appointed "spokesman" for Christianity, in general (or the rome paedo brigade, in particular, when it suits) that it doesn't require anyone else to step in. Nobody else possesses your level of intellect & sheer gravitas.
While you're at it, you can look up "sarcasm".
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2017, 08:34:42 PM
Why am I not surprised.🙄
Cos god sent you a text earlier on the hotline that you 2 have set up & already told you what I was going to say?
In what world are christians the most disadvantaged and discriminated against? Ludicrous statement.
That is not from an anti christian by the way. It is just a propesterous statement - as usual .
We are ridiculed for our beliefs everywhere,innocent things like crosses on churches are removed by LIDL,school assemblies are frowned upon,you cannot even refer to God in Christmas greetings.Physical attacks on people for simply being Christian are the logical outcome of this trend.
If you were a member of the Coptic Church in Egypt, one might have had some sympathy.
But you're just an idiot.
Happy holidays, in advance.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2017, 09:36:38 PM
We are ridiculed for our beliefs everywhere,innocent things like crosses on churches are removed by LIDL,school assemblies are frowned upon,you cannot even refer to God in Christmas greetings.Physical attacks on people for simply being Christian are the logical outcome of this trend.
The logical outcome... Do you understand what logic is?
On the global scale of discriminations i would say those things rank pretty far down the list compared to say things like murders but maybe my barometer is different to yours.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2017, 06:38:47 PM
I have an unshakeable faith,and the illogical rantings of someone will certainly not dilute it in any way.Christians have had to accept a lot of social change and are fighting to have all the remaining vestiges of christianity in public life preserved.
There is no group more disadvantaged or discriminated against in the modern era than Christians.Are you going to defend them and lobby for their rights?
You describe your faith as unshakable in one breath and as hedge betting in another. It's all over the place.
You do not know what logical means. Ergo you don't know what illogical means.
You don't know what ranting means.
What are the vestiges of Christianity in public life that you want to preserve?
I on the other hand do recognise an illogical ranting when I see one. To describe Christians as the most discrimated against group in the modern era is not merely laughable it's contemptible.
Add discrimination to the list of words you don't understand.
I do defend Christians. I defend their rights that they share with everyone else. I will go further than that. Any right that they have that elevates them above everyone else I would seek to remove and any sense that they are entitled to any special rights I would seek to disabuse them of
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2017, 09:36:38 PM
We are ridiculed for our beliefs everywhere,innocent things like crosses on churches are removed by LIDL,school assemblies are frowned upon,you cannot even refer to God in Christmas greetings.Physical attacks on people for simply being Christian are the logical outcome of this trend.
Some of your beliefs are ridiculous. Expect them to be ridiculed. This is not discrimination. Other ridiculous views are to be ridiculed.
Frowning upon the ridiculous is not discrimination.
When were you prevented from referring to God in a Christmas greeting?
Your link to physical threats is an invention of yours. But then you describe it as logical and you don't understand what that word means
You are anti catholic,irrational.Defending religious beliefs and the right to hold them? Don't make me laugh.Why do you care,I ask once again,about the holding of "ridiculous" beliefs and get so exercised? It's not as if Christians exercise any real political power nowadays
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2017, 10:55:11 PM
You are anti catholic,irrational.Defending religious beliefs and the right to hold them? Don't make me laugh.Why do you care,I ask once again,about the holding of "ridiculous" beliefs and get so exercised? It's not as if Christians exercise any real political power nowadays
I don't believe in god. If that allows you to label me anti catholic then I will have to live with that. By the same measure you are anti Muslim, anti Semitic, anti Hindu, anti Sikh, anti agnostic, anti atheist etc etc
I don't defend religious beliefs but I do defend the right to hold them. I defend the right of others to be wrong. I don't argue that they are correct to be wrong. Just that they have the right to be wrong. It's not complex
I answered already why I care and what specifically I do care about and what I don't care about.
I don't condemn anyone for not believing,or endeavour to make them believe,so why do you continue to rant,and mostly incoherently,on this thread.You are not going to make me change my mind
Religion is essentially supposed to be a private matter. There's nothing in the bible about putting your absurd beliefs on an internet forum every single day. You're like one of those sad evangelicals who get themselves a wee microphone & a speaker & they stand forlornly bearing witness on a Saturday morning in any provincial town in the North, I.e. nobody takes a blind bit of notice. .
There's a good boy, now run along.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 24, 2017, 09:36:38 PM
We are ridiculed for our beliefs everywhere,innocent things like crosses on churches are removed by LIDL,school assemblies are frowned upon,you cannot even refer to God in Christmas greetings.Physical attacks on people for simply being Christian are the logical outcome of this trend.
Does the word Christmas not in itself refer to him, you really come across as utterly dense.
17 pages and nobody takes a blind bit of notice? Christians are called to spread the word and give witness.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2017, 09:29:35 AM
17 pages and nobody takes a blind bit of notice? Christians are called to spread the word and give witness.
Thousands of complaints of child rape and the Church Hierarchy didn't take a blind bit of notice and continued to facilitate the rapists.
Did I ever say that was right? What has human organisational failure got to do with individual belief in God?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2017, 10:11:56 AM
Did I ever say that was right? What has human organisational failure got to do with individual belief in God?
Because back in the day, no one had any say in a belief in God, it was beat into them, the Catholic Church in Ireland welded huge influence, it is one of the most corrupt organisations in the world. Just look at the wealth it has, ballbag of an organisation which wrecked millions of lives.
😂😂😂😂.No one was ever forced into believing.My allegiance is to the beliefs of the Church,emanating from the Apostles,not the Church as an institution.In all organisations back in the day,hardship and physical punishment was the name of the game,from canes in school,right up to capital punishment, which still exists in some USA states.Put aside your Catholic hatred and ensure salvation for your soul
I'm surprised this thread has been allowed to continue for so long. Targeting one poster because he holds a strong belief.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2017, 10:59:47 AM
😂😂😂😂.No one was ever forced into believing.My allegiance is to the beliefs of the Church,emanating from the Apostles,not the Church as an institution.In all organisations back in the day,hardship and physical punishment was the name of the game,from canes in school,right up to capital punishment, which still exists in some USA states.Put aside your Catholic hatred and ensure salvation for your soul
They were thousands forced into sexual exploration by the Catholic Church who use the influence they had to silent the victims and allow the perpetrators to continue.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2017, 10:59:47 AM
😂😂😂😂.No one was ever forced into believing.My allegiance is to the beliefs of the Church,emanating from the Apostles,not the Church as an institution.In all organisations back in the day,hardship and physical punishment was the name of the game,from canes in school,right up to capital punishment, which still exists in some USA states.Put aside your Catholic hatred and ensure salvation for your soul
Is this the bible written by authors about a man they never met or knew?
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 25, 2017, 11:19:41 AM
I'm surprised this thread has been allowed to continue for so long. Targeting one poster because he holds a strong belief.
Beliefs which allow him to target and discriminate against groups or people he doesn't like, and allow him to justify his Churches corruption. Dry your f**king eyes kid.
Quote from: punt kick on September 25, 2017, 11:56:04 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2017, 10:59:47 AM
😂😂😂😂.No one was ever forced into believing.My allegiance is to the beliefs of the Church,emanating from the Apostles,not the Church as an institution.In all organisations back in the day,hardship and physical punishment was the name of the game,from canes in school,right up to capital punishment, which still exists in some USA states.Put aside your Catholic hatred and ensure salvation for your soul
They were thousands forced into sexual exploration by the Catholic Church ....
:o I don't think so.
Stupid Punt.I feel you vastly over estimate my capacity to and range of influence.Also exactly what form of discrimination does any Christian Church,much less a Christian individual exercise,and against whom?
I'm guessing you have had a very bad personal experience,church related.If that is the case I genuinely feel sorry for you.It is not good however to have such pent up hatred.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2017, 10:11:56 AM
Did I ever say that was right? What has human organisational failure got to do with individual belief in God?
Isn't it just great that you can sum up the activities of a worldwide paedophile ring that went unchallenged for no one knows how long as a "human organisational failure". That's a creative use of the English language, in anyone's book. Step forward & collect your special Lourdes medal, for services to shoring up the the Rome paedo brigade's reputation.
Quote from: Hardy on September 25, 2017, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: punt kick on September 25, 2017, 11:56:04 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2017, 10:59:47 AM
😂😂😂😂.No one was ever forced into believing.My allegiance is to the beliefs of the Church,emanating from the Apostles,not the Church as an institution.In all organisations back in the day,hardship and physical punishment was the name of the game,from canes in school,right up to capital punishment, which still exists in some USA states.Put aside your Catholic hatred and ensure salvation for your soul
They were thousands forced into sexual exploration by the Catholic Church ....
:o I don't think so.
The guardian of the GAABOARD, I meant exploitation as well you know it.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2017, 12:35:01 PM
Stupid Punt.I feel you vastly over estimate my capacity to and range of influence.Also exactly what form of discrimination does any Christian Church,much less a Christian individual exercise,and against whom?
I'm guessing you have had a very bad personal experience,church related.If that is the case I genuinely feel sorry for you.It is not good however to have such pent up hatred.
Maybe it steams from having Father Gerard McQuillan from Portydown as a parish priest when he was abusing all round him. And if you think the Catholic Church hasn't ruined millions of lives you have your head up your ass.
The handful of paedophiles masquerading as priests ruined lives.The Church has provided pastoral guidance as well education,health,social and charitable services (SVP,Trocaire etc).to billions for.countless generations.
Lads is it not bad enough Tony putting himself up on a cross, without us handing him the nails? Lock the thread, for God's sake.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2017, 03:09:32 PM
The handful of paedophiles masquerading as priests ruined lives.The Church has provided pastoral guidance as well education,health,social and charitable services (SVP,Trocaire etc).to billions for.countless generations.
A handful assumes 5 at the most.
FFS Tony, give your head a shake.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2017, 03:09:32 PM
The handful of paedophiles masquerading as priests ruined lives.The Church has provided pastoral guidance as well education,health,social and charitable services (SVP,Trocaire etc).to billions for.countless generations.
A handful? A pathetic paedophile denier is nearly as bad as the paedophiles themselves. If that's your brand of Catholicism, go rot in hell, where you belong. You're obviously sub-human, after that type of comment. Trouble is, you're clearly in league with the moderators on here, who seem to protect you & indulge your bile, in spite of being told about the evil crap you spout.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2017, 03:09:32 PM
The handful of paedophiles masquerading as priests ruined lives.The Church has provided pastoral guidance as well education,health,social and charitable services (SVP,Trocaire etc).to billions for.countless generations.
Now Tony, I'd be defensive when people insinuate most priests were at it but we both know there has been far far more than a handful.
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on September 25, 2017, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2017, 10:11:56 AM
Did I ever say that was right? What has human organisational failure got to do with individual belief in God?
Isn't it just great that you can sum up the activities of a worldwide paedophile ring that went unchallenged for no one knows how long as a "human organisational failure". That's a creative use of the English language, in anyone's book. Step forward & collect your special Lourdes medal, for services to shoring up the the Rome paedo brigade's reputation.
And shite like the last sentence here is bang out of order too
In the context of the vast body of priests the paedophiles who infiltrated the sacred office were a handful relatively speaking.In fact family members were involved widely in paedophilia so is the family unit to be condemned?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2017, 10:11:17 PM
In the context of the vast body of priests the paedophiles who infiltrated the sacred office were a handful relatively speaking.In fact family members were involved widely in paedophilia so is the family unit to be condemned?
What's the numbers? 10%? It mentioned a figure in the film spotlight and given the amount of priests there are, it is a lot more than a handful
In the context of a vast array of clerics,the paedophiles who defiled the office were but a mere handful,relatively speaking,way below that of family members who abused their own kith and kin,teachers,sports coaches etc.
Paedophilia is and always has been a blight on mankind,it has infiltrated every profession and all churches,and in the past has been mishandled by all organisations. Only anti catholic haters concentrate on the Catholic Church in this regard as if,bizarrely,it was confined to the Catholic Church.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2017, 11:06:17 PM
In the context of a vast array of clerics,the paedophiles who defiled the office were but a mere handful,relatively speaking,way below that of family members who abused their own kith and kin,teachers,sports coaches etc.
Paedophilia is and always has been a blight on mankind,it has infiltrated every profession and all churches,and in the past has been mishandled by all organisations. Only anti catholic haters concentrate on the Catholic Church in this regard as if,bizarrely,it was confined to the Catholic Church.
I'm not anti catholic and we are not talking about any other organisation or family unit here. This is about the Catholic Church and to dismiss the number of priests who have abused kids as a mere handful is doing the victims a disservice. It was more gab a mere handful.
A mere handful makes it sound like it wasn't that big a deal at all. Really you do not have the attitude of a very christian person at all as you continually display. I respect true faith and know quite a few who have it but your faith in no way deserves and respect.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2017, 09:04:34 PM
Non believers will not be admitted.That is those who have reached the age of reason,heard the gospel and sadly rejected it.There also is no transfer market in or out of heaven.Scripture is clear about this.
As I get older I see more and more sense in the Calvinist doctrine of presdestination,i.e. Your eternal destination is mapped out by God before you are born.
As you say there is no transfer market. What if you have believed in the wong god. On another thread OmaghJoe danced away from this issue. You just ignored it. It seems to be a difficulty for you
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2017, 03:09:32 PM
The handful of paedophiles masquerading as priests ruined lives.The Church has provided pastoral guidance as well education,health,social and charitable services (SVP,Trocaire etc).to billions for.countless generations.
I think Sean Brady was in charge then too - and at no mass was a thing mentioned about it, not an apology nothing.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2017, 09:04:34 PM
Non believers will not be admitted.That is those who have reached the age of reason,heard the gospel and sadly rejected it.There also is no transfer market in or out of heaven.Scripture is clear about this.
As I get older I see more and more sense in the Calvinist doctrine of presdestination,i.e. Your eternal destination is mapped out by God before you are born.
So why are we born, what point does it serve?
Quote from: punt kick on September 26, 2017, 10:03:17 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2017, 09:04:34 PM
Non believers will not be admitted.That is those who have reached the age of reason,heard the gospel and sadly rejected it.There also is no transfer market in or out of heaven.Scripture is clear about this.
As I get older I see more and more sense in the Calvinist doctrine of presdestination,i.e. Your eternal destination is mapped out by God before you are born.
So why are we born, what point does it serve?
[/quoteThis is related to the question of Judas. Someone had to betray Jesus. To fulfil scripture. It was Judas. It was not his fault. FFS. He was part of a system he knew nothing about.
The Calvinist belief in predestination was responsible for apartheid, rednecks running slavery and Portydown. It is a crock of shite .
Well I suppose it is not too much of a stretch to believe that God does know in advance who will take up his offer of salvation and who will reject it,is it really?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 26, 2017, 12:35:03 PM
Well I suppose it is not too much of a stretch to believe that God does know in advance who will take up his offer of salvation and who will reject it,is it really?
What about the poor unborn, aborted, miscarriages, or those born with no quality of life due to aids, severe disabilities, especially those born to non-believers are they mapped out for eternal salvation or are they doomed? Also why is God allowing such births, what has these children done to deserve it, so they get no chance of life on earth and burning in hell for ever, through no fault of their own.
This thread is the death of the gaaboard.
Heganboy you started this - maybe in jest but look at what it has turned in to.
Tony you're a miserable example of a Christian - do us all a favor and shut up man will you and find something else to do than this nasty dance you're engaging in.
Everyone else baiting him you're miserable examples of people.
So much flipping hatred and nastiness. It's an ugly thread and the downfall of the board that it has been left to continue.
Punt,God works in mysterious ways.Maybe you should be thankful to him you're not afflicted.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 26, 2017, 01:16:15 PM
Punt,God works in mysterious ways.Maybe you should be thankful to him you're not afflicted.
The most expected answer possible and the biggest load of horseshite in human history. Only the gullible and brain washed believe this crap.
We'll see who was right and who was wrong.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 26, 2017, 01:46:26 PM
We'll see who was right and who was wrong.
Part of wants to believe there is something because the likes of you would burn in hell, by the way you are beginning to sound like a schoolboy, least you aren't one who was raped by the clergy.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 26, 2017, 01:46:26 PM
We'll see who was right and who was wrong.
What if you are reincarnated as a Dalit female, Tony? The chances of that are very high if it is reincarnation.
I don't believe in reincarnation.One Life,One Judgement,one or other Eternity.
By the way I do not understand the motivation to turn away from the Church or God due to the tiny minority of paedophiles masquerading as priests.I do not revere clergy (I do respect them and have been thankful for their support,for instance,when my father died earlier this year),but it is Church teachings I adhere to not so much the institution,which like all institutions,will experience good and bad times,make mistakes etc
Quote from: T Fearon on September 26, 2017, 04:07:13 PM
I don't believe in reincarnation.One Life,One Judgement,one or other Eternity.
By the way I do not understand the motivation to turn away from the Church or God due to the tiny minority of paedophiles masquerading as priests.I do not revere clergy (I do respect them and have been thankful for their support,for instance,when my father died earlier this year),but it is Church teachings I adhere to not so much the institution,which like all institutions,will experience good and bad times,make mistakes etc
But there may only be one system. And it won't matter if you believe or not. It would be like owning AIB shares in 2008. You would be expected to suck it.
There is nothing in the Bible to suggest reincarnation,neither was it mentioned by Jesus.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 26, 2017, 05:13:39 PM
There is nothing in the Bible to suggest reincarnation,neither was it mentioned by Jesus.
Maybe the Bible has the same status in the big scheme of things as the Gnostic gospel. How would you know? It would be a mystery
I,like millions of others believe Jesus died and rose and was ascended into heaven,not reincarnated.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 26, 2017, 05:13:39 PM
There is nothing in the Bible to suggest reincarnation,neither was it mentioned by Jesus.
There's nothing in the Bible written by anyone who met Jesus - Harry Potter is more relevant for moral guidance.
John's Gospel?
Tony, will the Dalai Lama eventually get to Heaven when he finishes reincarnating? ?
Sadly not,unless,as Ive said on numerous occasions,he believes in Jesus as his saviour and repents
Quote from: T Fearon on September 26, 2017, 04:07:13 PM
I don't believe in reincarnation.One Life,One Judgement,one or other Eternity.
By the way I do not understand the motivation to turn away from the Church or God due to the tiny minority of paedophiles masquerading as priests.I do not revere clergy (I do respect them and have been thankful for their support,for instance,when my father died earlier this year),but it is Church teachings I adhere to not so much the institution,which like all institutions,will experience good and bad times,make mistakes etc
At least we are off the 'mere handful' narrative. It may be a tiny minority but let's not pretend that the number of paedo priests isn't a high number
The number of paedos who were schoolteachers is a high number as is the number of paedos who abused their own relatives.As I say my allegiance is to the theology not the institution.
Quote from: LCohen on September 26, 2017, 08:23:16 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2017, 09:04:34 PM
Non believers will not be admitted.That is those who have reached the age of reason,heard the gospel and sadly rejected it.There also is no transfer market in or out of heaven.Scripture is clear about this.
As I get older I see more and more sense in the Calvinist doctrine of presdestination,i.e. Your eternal destination is mapped out by God before you are born.
As you say there is no transfer market. What if you have believed in the wong god. On another thread OmaghJoe danced away from this issue. You just ignored it. It seems to be a difficulty for you
:D :D
Sure That wasnt even your statement that spawned our exchange but Im not really surprised you come out with that as you continue with one logical fallacy after another and deny them even after you've been explicitly called out on it. Logic is logic Leonard what... can I say
You framed the subject in black and white when it is infinitely more complicated than that.
Your statement was akin to "If you believe Einstein was right then you believe Newton and Euclid were wrong"
Which is, as was your statement, a complete over simplification of a complicated subject
Your entitled to believe what you want to believe Leonard even if your wrong...admitting that you might be tho is probably going to be more difficult.
In any case... the most interesting thing for me in this thread is predestination. Im surprised (tho not really ::) ) at the posters declaring it rubbish, especially when they base most of what they say on the belief that the laws of nature are an absolute truth.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 26, 2017, 09:22:04 PM
The number of paedos who were schoolteachers is a high number as is the number of paedos who abused their own relatives.As I say my allegiance is to the theology not the institution.
Being from portadown i reckon you probably know that about teachers very well but this isn't a thread about teachers or family. Child molesting is a problem witrhin the Catholic Church and needs to be tackled not dismissed by saying it's a mere handful, a minority or whataboutery
Child abuse is a problem in society.There has been several convictions among Church of England clergy recently.The Pope acknowledged last weekend once again that the Church was at fault.But the procedures in place now to protect children and vulnerable adults are extremely robust,priests are stood down the minute an allegation is raised and the statutory authorities are informed.
There are also many priests with alcohol problems and many more afflicted with all other problems and addictions that beset humankind.But this does not detract from the veracity of Church theology.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 26, 2017, 09:58:58 PM
Child abuse is a problem in society.There has been several convictions among Church of England clergy recently.The Pope acknowledged last weekend once again that the Church was at fault.But the procedures in place now to protect children and vulnerable adults are extremely robust,priests are stood down the minute an allegation is raised and the statutory authorities are informed.
There are also many priests with alcohol problems and many more afflicted with all other problems and addictions that beset humankind.But this does not detract from the veracity of Church theology.
Talk about shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted. The problem is there as it has been for a long time. More should have been done in the past and more should be done now. That said, people who make spurious allegations - my parish is St Peters Lurgan - should be prosecuted too
Quote from: Rossfan on September 26, 2017, 08:41:15 PM
John's Gospel?
Tony, will the Dalai Lama eventually get to Heaven when he finishes reincarnating? ?
No one knows who wrote that, certainly not anyone who knew Jesus.
The gospels are an accurate record of the life and death and resurrection of Jesus
Quote from: T Fearon on September 27, 2017, 07:43:14 AM
The gospels are an accurate record of the life and death and resurrection of Jesus
How can they be when they were written long after his death by folk who never met him?
There are biographies still being written about Elvis Presley.The gospels are eye witness accounts of the life of Jesus
The first gospel was written how long after Jesus died?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 27, 2017, 08:53:02 AM
There are biographies still being written about Elvis Presley.The gospels are eye witness accounts of the life of Jesus
No they are not, the authors never met or knew Jesus, also how much was lost in translation and how much did the vatican take out and change?
Who wrote John's Gospel?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 26, 2017, 08:57:11 PM
Sadly not,unless,as Ive said on numerous occasions,he believes in Jesus as his saviour and repents
What would the Dalai Lama have to repent for?
What of all the millions down through the years who never heard of Christianity?
What about all those who lived before Jesus came to Earth?
Was Jesus not speaking only to the Jews trying to get them away from the old ways and to follow Him?
I am speaking from the personal perspective of belief in scripture and what is required for salvation.I don't know who has ans hasnt heard of Jesus.I'd be surprised if there are many who haven't in the modern age.Plus lets not forget the long and outstading work of Irish missionaries
Quote from: The Iceman on September 26, 2017, 01:08:50 PM
This thread is the death of the gaaboard.
Heganboy you started this - maybe in jest but look at what it has turned in to.
Tony you're a miserable example of a Christian - do us all a favor and shut up man will you and find something else to do than this nasty dance you're engaging in.
Everyone else baiting him you're miserable examples of people.
So much flipping hatred and nastiness. It's an ugly thread and the downfall of the board that it has been left to continue.
Tony might be a bit more representative of a strain of Christianity than you want to accept.
Also flags up issues and then runs away from answering the related questions. There is nothing to stop other spiritualists from answering them. Something they are conspicuously shy to do
Quote from: T Fearon on September 26, 2017, 01:46:26 PM
We'll see who was right and who was wrong.
It would be helpful if someone credible could report back
Quote from: T Fearon on September 26, 2017, 06:16:29 PM
I,like millions of others believe Jesus died and rose and was ascended into heaven,not reincarnated.
Evidence? Relying on the bible?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 26, 2017, 08:57:11 PM
Sadly not,unless,as Ive said on numerous occasions,he believes in Jesus as his saviour and repents
So if there is a god but its not the one you believe in your bucked.
By your earlier hedge betting you should be tarting yourself around all gods
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 26, 2017, 09:23:32 PM
Quote from: LCohen on September 26, 2017, 08:23:16 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2017, 09:04:34 PM
Non believers will not be admitted.That is those who have reached the age of reason,heard the gospel and sadly rejected it.There also is no transfer market in or out of heaven.Scripture is clear about this.
As I get older I see more and more sense in the Calvinist doctrine of presdestination,i.e. Your eternal destination is mapped out by God before you are born.
As you say there is no transfer market. What if you have believed in the wong god. On another thread OmaghJoe danced away from this issue. You just ignored it. It seems to be a difficulty for you
:D :D
Sure That wasnt even your statement that spawned our exchange but Im not really surprised you come out with that as you continue with one logical fallacy after another and deny them even after you've been explicitly called out on it. Logic is logic Leonard what... can I say
You framed the subject in black and white when it is infinitely more complicated than that.
Your statement was akin to "If you believe Einstein was right then you believe Newton and Euclid were wrong"
Which is, as was your statement, a complete over simplification of a complicated subject
Your entitled to believe what you want to believe Leonard even if your wrong...admitting that you might be tho is probably going to be more difficult.
Still dancing then.
One of the following 2 statements is true.
You do believe in Thor
Or
You don't believe in Thor.
There is no shade of grey and its not more complicated
Quote from: T Fearon on September 27, 2017, 07:43:14 AM
The gospels are an accurate record of the life and death and resurrection of Jesus
So the bit in the Bible that says Jesus was born in Bethlehem is true and the bit that says he wasn't are both true? How so?
You are far too obsessed with minor details,like the birthplace of Jesus etc.The core issues are as follows:
Belief in and acceptance of Christ as your saviour
Repent sin
Do your utmost to live a good life free from serious sin.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 27, 2017, 02:46:07 PM
You are far too obsessed with minor details,like the birthplace of Jesus etc.The core issues are as follows:
Belief in and acceptance of Christ as your saviour
Repent sin
Do your utmost to live a good life free from serious sin.
Why does anyone need to be saved ?
Because the alternative is eternal damnation
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2017, 03:05:38 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 27, 2017, 02:46:07 PM
You are far too obsessed with minor details,like the birthplace of Jesus etc.The core issues are as follows:
Belief in and acceptance of Christ as your saviour
Repent sin
Do your utmost to live a good life free from serious sin.
Why does anyone need to be saved ?
You can't be saved if you're from Galway.
Or from Ballagh if you support the Rhubarbs
Quote from: T Fearon on September 27, 2017, 03:17:34 PM
Because the alternative is eternal damnation
Says who?
I know a few Hindu chauvinists who would be similar to you. They say Shiva is the decider
Quote from: T Fearon on September 27, 2017, 02:46:07 PM
You are far too obsessed with minor details,like the birthplace of Jesus etc.The core issues are as follows:
Belief in and acceptance of Christ as your saviour
Repent sin
Do your utmost to live a good life free from serious sin.
Or if you kill, rape, abuse - just say two our fathers and 5 hail marys and your are grand!
Not at all.Repentance must be sincere,accompanied by remorse and a determination to amend your life.It's not just a matter of wiping the slate clean every now and again
Quote from: T Fearon on September 27, 2017, 04:07:38 PM
Not at all.Repentance must be sincere,accompanied by remorse and a determination to amend your life.It's not just a matter of wiping the slate clean every now and again
So when you have raped and killed all your life and are lying on your death bed with no mortal future in front of you, and you beg forgiveness in your last hours and in your heart you are truly sorry for raping small children or murdering - will you be saved?
Only God can answer that one,though it did seem to work for the thief crucified alongside Jesus.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 27, 2017, 04:52:25 PM
Only God can answer that one,though it did seem to work for the thief crucified alongside Jesus.
;D You are just piss taking, harlious.
Only God can judge whether repentance is genuine and sufficient to reach heaven.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 27, 2017, 04:52:25 PM
Only God can answer that one,though it did seem to work for the thief crucified alongside Jesus.
The thief didn't even have a name. He was a working class victim of a vicious bourgeois society where going to Temple was more important than morality. Very like Portadine in the 60s.
Think the message from that incident is,belief in Jesus and sincere repentance is all you need
Yesterday the truly inspirational Fr Tim Hazelwood was on the Joe Duffy show.He had been accused falsely of child abuse but later accepted a full retraction and apology from his accuser in court.The Catholic Church (far from covering up child abuse) hung him out to dry,and gave him no support whatsoever in his fight for justice.
But when his innocence was confirmed what did he do? Leave the Church that abandoned him,or worse still turn his back on his maker? No.He returned to his ministry with renewed enthusiasm.These are the sort of role models who inspire me.They never waver no matter what life throws at them.Truly inspirational,all anti Catholics would do well to note and follow his example.
Thought this was appropriate in this thread.
Well here's another highly principled Catholic who publicly declares his stance on abortion. Just like many of those who claim to take the holier than thou route in Catholicism, Jacob Rees Mogg's principles soften enough for him to wriggle when he is found to profit from abortion pills. If his connection is as limited as he states then he would have taken himself out of the situation and not accepted the money.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jacob-rees-mogg-abortion-pills-abortion-rape-conservative-party-conference-tory-leadership-leader-a7976386.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jacob-rees-mogg-abortion-pills-abortion-rape-conservative-party-conference-tory-leadership-leader-a7976386.html)
He has no hands on involvement with the Company and the medication is intended to treat stomach ulcers.As he rightly says the Company's shareholders call the shots,just as he said that if he was PM he would be subject to democratically expressed wishes of the electorate and could not simply enforce his own personal beliefs
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2017, 02:38:33 PM
He has no hands on involvement with the Company and the medication is intended to treat stomach ulcers.As he rightly says the Company's shareholders call the shots,just as he said that if he was PM he would be subject to democratically expressed wishes of the electorate and could not simply enforce his own personal beliefs
Mogg admits to benefiting from the profits of selling this abortion drug - how can that square with his Catholic belief? Money wins. No move to divest himself of the business/shares.
The money is derived from a drug that was developed to treat stomach ulcers.He has no intent to be involved with a product that is intended to facilitate abortion.If it is misused to have other unintended effects and outcomes he has no part in that.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2017, 03:37:54 PM
The money is derived from a drug that was developed to treat stomach ulcers.He has no intent to be involved with a product that is intended to facilitate abortion.If it is misused to have other unintended effects and outcomes he has no part in that.
He knows it is being used for abortions and still takes his share of the profits coming to his company. Typical of the pin dancing by those highly principled Catholics who know what is best for us all yet will always look after themselves. Then they have others like yourself who will make every excuse under the sun to cover their hypocrisy - the great terminal disease for the Catholic Church.
If I brew and sell beer am I responsible for the death of alcoholics or for alcohol fuelled domestic violence? I think not.If people misuse products it is not in any way the fault of the manufacturer.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2017, 09:42:29 PM
If I brew and sell beer am I responsible for the death of alcoholics or for alcohol fuelled domestic violence? I think not.If people misuse products it is not in any way the fault of the manufacturer.
What about tobacco? Nicotine is a highly addictive substance, so the manufacturer is blameless? Wise up.
And what's your take on the Catholic Church helping mass murdering Nazis escape after the war on the Vatican rat line?
Yawn.
To be fair its like him having shares in Richardsons Fertilizer and then blaming him for making bombs and blowing up buildings.
Exactly or having shares in Nescafé and being accused of producing coffee jars for bombs
Quote from: T Fearon on September 27, 2017, 02:46:07 PM
You are far too obsessed with minor details,like the birthplace of Jesus etc.The core issues are as follows:
Belief in and acceptance of Christ as your saviour
Repent sin
Do your utmost to live a good life free from serious sin.
The birth of Jesus is far from a minor detail. The contrived Bethlehem scenario was contrived by the authors precisely to fulfill a expectation created by the bible. This must call into question the motivation and truthfulness of the authors.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 27, 2017, 03:17:34 PM
Because the alternative is eternal damnation
Any proof outside personal belief?
And what is the personal belief based upon other than your personal a la carte selections from the bible?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 27, 2017, 07:40:41 PM
Only God can judge whether repentance is genuine and sufficient to reach heaven.
What if you've got the wrong God?
How do you know biblical accounts are inaccurate?
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2017, 08:23:50 PM
How do you know biblical accounts are inaccurate?
We know that opposing biblical versions cannot both be true.
We know that Herod did not call a census.
We know that there was no census requirement for citizens to travel to the designated home town of a ancestor from 1000 years previous for the purpose of a census
We know that the bible is factually incorrect in these respects
You know nothing.You believe it's not true,I believe it is.It cannot be proved nor disproved.One of us will be right the other wrong.We'll both find out
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2017, 08:55:57 PM
You know nothing.You believe it's not true,I believe it is.It cannot be proved nor disproved.One of us will be right the other wrong.We'll both find out
A census is a matter of historical record.
Rome never called a census for the entire empire. You can check this. No need to revert to belief.
Herod didn't call a local census during the period of Jesus life. You can check this. No need to revert to belief.
There are good records of censuses. There is no record of forced travel to the stomping grounds of ancient ancestors. If you want to default to personal belief do you believe it likely that you could be told that in the 2021 census you would have to submit your return (even by post) to the home town of a designated ancestor from the year 1021? Surely it becomes incredulous at some stage?
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2017, 08:55:57 PM
You know nothing.You believe it's not true,I believe it is.It cannot be proved nor disproved.One of us will be right the other wrong.We'll both find out
So when the bible says Jesus wasn't born in Bethlehem, do you believe that as well?
These are minor details whose historical worldly accuracy or otherwise doesn't matter.It's a bit like the dispute over Charlie Haughey's birthplace (s). What matters is the belief that Jesus was born,was crucified and rose again.The last bit is as much proof that exists of God's existence.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2017, 09:19:52 PM
These are minor details whose historical worldly accuracy or otherwise doesn't matter.It's a bit like the dispute over Charlie Haughey's birthplace (s). What matters is the belief that Jesus was born,was crucified and rose again.The last bit is as much proof that exists of God's existence.
Nobody ever claimed Charlie was of virgin born
Nobody ever claimed Charlie fulfilled an Old Testament prediction.
Nobody claimed Charlie was the son of god although I would be surprised if he never touched him for a loan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8xU8Bm2C3c
Looking forward to A New Order on UTV tomorrow night,examining the state of Catholicism here.Interview with Fr P Mulryne,once of Man Utd,among others.I suspect we will find the Church is in a far healthier condition than we imagined.
Did I hear some new DUPUDA Councillor is in favour of gay marriage???????
Quote from: T Fearon on November 28, 2017, 09:45:30 AM
Looking forward to A New Order on UTV tomorrow night,examining the state of Catholicism here.Interview with Fr P Mulryne,once of Man Utd,among others.I suspect we will find the Church is in a far healthier condition than we imagined.
Did you mean wealthier, all that art and property!
Diarmuid Martin's plan of packing the lads off to Rome to get them away from all the gayness around Maynooth appears to have backfired
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/two-trainee-priests-sent-back-to-ireland-after-being-found-in-bed-together-1.3491779
Quote from: gallsman on May 11, 2018, 03:36:02 PM
Diarmuid Martin's plan of packing the lads off to Rome to get them away from all the gayness around Maynooth appears to have backfired
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/two-trainee-priests-sent-back-to-ireland-after-being-found-in-bed-together-1.3491779
Must have got ideas after watching the Eurovision. That gay stuff is contagious, apparently.
Did you know that Maynooth seminary apparently used to have a rule where apprentice priests, or trainee priests, or whatever they were called, could only shake their tool twice after having a pee?
Seminary being just one letter out from semenary, of course.