China Coronavirus

[J70]

Yes maybe to early but I was only stating that numbers had gone down when many anticipated them to sky rocket

It's takes time for the virus to spread, become infectious and cause hospitalizations.

I don't anyone was saying it would skyrocket on week 1.

It would be interesting to know just how back to normal Georgia really is.

[Itchy]

In the Bundesliga on tv at moment, players on field crashing into each other with no masks. Subs on bench, sit 2 meters apart but all have to wear masks. I think this shows the truth about masks, a gimmick to make us feel safe rather than be safe.

This is typical of this discussion board. Your coming out with this because of the view you had on people who wore masks at the start, that they were depriving front line NHS workers of masks. Which wasnt actually the case, but I understand why the government didn't want to tell people to wear them until they had their supply chain sorted. Your doubling down now. The evidence is irrefutable that they prevent  spread. Posters have tried to explain to you why that is, but you have chose to ignore that rather than admit you may have got it wrong. Your saying that it is a gimmick while at the same time I bet you cough in to your sleeve or elbow and away from people? Do you not see the contradiction there?

I have been consistent on this and the advise coming from the experts in this country was also consistent up until last week. Masks have a place, for front line workers and on busy subways etc. However they also give people a false sense of security causing them to relax social distancing. I don't recall the Irish government once mentioning Mask supply chain as a reason not wear them. You will see masks being fidgeted with and adjusted. Tell me if they are so key a protector why are so many health care workers getting infected? I suppose yuo believe that temp checks at airports will be an effective means to stop infection across borders too.

We have brought this virus back and flattened the curve and this was achieved without Masks or temp checks. What is happening now is politicians are moving away from data based science to lets convince everyone its safe to start going back to normal. Maybe they need to do that but I'd rather they would be honest about it instead of convincing fools that a mask will protect them.

Can you return to my previous post, do you think there is any point German players sitting on the subs bench 2m apart should be wearing masks. If you think it is sensible maybe you could explain why. If you think it is not sensible maybe you could hazard a guess at why they were asked to wear them?

I do think it is sensible. I think it's a relatively  low expense  precaution  to help prevent spread. I take your point that the players in the pitch do not have the same precautions, but the work place is a needs must in many ways. Same as my own workplace . I'll leave it to others to judge whether the Bundesliga should be back playing, but that decision ultimately had buy in from all the relevant stake holders.
Btw the way you haven't answered my question on the coughing in to the elbow/sleeve. If you deem this necessary why would a mask not be a sufficient step above that?

OK. The company I work is American, we are in the process of having inflicted on us compolsory mask wearing because some people in corporate (I might add, with zero factory experience) have decided this is what we will do. We are not alone, seems the way all the big US multinationals are going. We rolled out a pilot and here are the findings of it.
from the people wearing them...
- Masks are uncomfortable, have to keep fidgeting with them.
- Masks make us itch, have to reach under and scratch.
- We took them off as they were too hot
- We took them off as moisture was building up under them.

The observations of management were that initially people started encroaching into the 2m social distance zone as they felt a degree of extra protection. This in spite of us telling them over and over again that social distancing must be maintained with the mask.

So the feedback from the people wearing them means that with a mask, people are bringing their hands into contact with a zone protecting droplet more frequently than if they werent wearing on at all. You dont get that sneezing into your elbow.

Up until last week the expert advise to the Irish government said the same.

Here is what the WHO says (ie a group solely interested in public health)

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

• If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.
  Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
  Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
  If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.
  

So they have a place obviously but that place is not every Tom, Dick and Harry wearing one when they walk their dog.

[Smurfy123]

Week 1? Georgia are now over 3 weeks open. And numbers are going down. Denmark ended lockdown on April 15 and had no new cases on Thursday

[larryin89]

Week 1? Georgia are now over 3 weeks open. And numbers are going down. Denmark ended lockdown on April 15 and had no new cases on Thursday

That's not true , Denmark have new cases everyday .

[dublin7]

Week 1? Georgia are now over 3 weeks open. And numbers are going down. Denmark ended lockdown on April 15 and had no new cases on Thursday

That's not true , Denmark have new cases everyday .

No one died of Covid-19 in Denmark on Thursday. There were cases of Covid 19 confirmed on the day

[J70]

Week 1? Georgia are now over 3 weeks open. And numbers are going down. Denmark ended lockdown on April 15 and had no new cases on Thursday

You misunderstood me, possibly my own fault.

You said some were predicting numbers would skyrocket in Georgia. My point is that I seriously doubt anyone thought we'd see it skyrocketing straight away. Yes, it's three weeks. But as I've already said, it takes time to transmit the disease; it takes additional time for infections to develop. After initial symptoms, it can take a week or so for it to progress to the point where hospitalization is necessary.

Even if numbers were to skyrocket, it's still early.

[larryin89]

Week 1? Georgia are now over 3 weeks open. And numbers are going down. Denmark ended lockdown on April 15 and had no new cases on Thursday

That's not true , Denmark have new cases everyday .

No one died of Covid-19 in Denmark on Thursday. There were cases of Covid 19 confirmed on the day

He said cases not deaths though and there have been deaths since also .

[dublin7]

Week 1? Georgia are now over 3 weeks open. And numbers are going down. Denmark ended lockdown on April 15 and had no new cases on Thursday

That's not true , Denmark have new cases everyday .

No one died of Covid-19 in Denmark on Thursday. There were cases of Covid 19 confirmed on the day

He said cases not deaths though and there have been deaths since also .

I agree. Just pointing out his error. I think Smurfy must be doing the stats for the Russians as well. Their published Covid-19 death figures are farcical and unbelievable

[imtommygunn]

Just saw a tweet on Georgia and how they had to apologise for the misrepresentation of the data on their graphs. They've been messing with the dates on the x axis of their graphs and it was making it look more like downward trends that it really was.

https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/just-cuckoo-state-latest-data-mishap-causes-critics-cry-foul/182PpUvUX9XEF8vO11NVGO/

[Captain Obvious]

Week 1? Georgia are now over 3 weeks open. And numbers are going down. Denmark ended lockdown on April 15 and had no new cases on Thursday

That's not true , Denmark have new cases everyday .

No one died of Covid-19 in Denmark on Thursday. There were cases of Covid 19 confirmed on the day

He said cases not deaths though and there have been deaths since also .

I agree. Just pointing out his error. I think Smurfy must be doing the stats for the Russians as well. Their published Covid-19 death figures are farcical and unbelievable

Yes does any believe Russia with 281,752 cases only has 2,631 deaths.

[HiMucker]

Smurf is right while everyone else is wrong.
He's getting his facts straight from Karen.

I don't understand this. It's a discussion board. What would you suggest he do? Agree with everyone? If you don't like or even understand the concept then you can leave.

Discussion involves at least a minimal attempt to entertain and dissect the merits of all arguments put forward. There is little evidence of that from Smurfy and a few like minded types on this thread over the last few months.

Instead, their approach seems to have been to avoid any genuine deliberation on ideas or information, in favour of a scattergun volley of misunderstood and misrepresented stats and titbits gleaned from a multitude of less than reliable sources.

It's all in very bad faith, and very like the climate change or anti-vaxxer 'debate'. Ignore discussion of core issues, because the evidence is overwhelmingly against them in this area, and instead throw out tangential trivia until you hit on something that can not be immediately explained. The failure to immediately explain away this usually inconsequential detail is then used as justification to rubbish the entire body of understanding of an issue, and a weird sort of victory is claimed.

The recent mentions of COVID-19 case incidence in Georgia, or of cancer death rates are both prime examples. Misunderstood, misrepresented, and tangential (or just completely irrelevant) to what was being discussed.

Spot on, and succinctly put

[HiMucker]

In the Bundesliga on tv at moment, players on field crashing into each other with no masks. Subs on bench, sit 2 meters apart but all have to wear masks. I think this shows the truth about masks, a gimmick to make us feel safe rather than be safe.

This is typical of this discussion board. Your coming out with this because of the view you had on people who wore masks at the start, that they were depriving front line NHS workers of masks. Which wasnt actually the case, but I understand why the government didn't want to tell people to wear them until they had their supply chain sorted. Your doubling down now. The evidence is irrefutable that they prevent  spread. Posters have tried to explain to you why that is, but you have chose to ignore that rather than admit you may have got it wrong. Your saying that it is a gimmick while at the same time I bet you cough in to your sleeve or elbow and away from people? Do you not see the contradiction there?

I have been consistent on this and the advise coming from the experts in this country was also consistent up until last week. Masks have a place, for front line workers and on busy subways etc. However they also give people a false sense of security causing them to relax social distancing. I don't recall the Irish government once mentioning Mask supply chain as a reason not wear them. You will see masks being fidgeted with and adjusted. Tell me if they are so key a protector why are so many health care workers getting infected? I suppose yuo believe that temp checks at airports will be an effective means to stop infection across borders too.

We have brought this virus back and flattened the curve and this was achieved without Masks or temp checks. What is happening now is politicians are moving away from data based science to lets convince everyone its safe to start going back to normal. Maybe they need to do that but I'd rather they would be honest about it instead of convincing fools that a mask will protect them.

Can you return to my previous post, do you think there is any point German players sitting on the subs bench 2m apart should be wearing masks. If you think it is sensible maybe you could explain why. If you think it is not sensible maybe you could hazard a guess at why they were asked to wear them?

I do think it is sensible. I think it's a relatively  low expense  precaution  to help prevent spread. I take your point that the players in the pitch do not have the same precautions, but the work place is a needs must in many ways. Same as my own workplace . I'll leave it to others to judge whether the Bundesliga should be back playing, but that decision ultimately had buy in from all the relevant stake holders.
Btw the way you haven't answered my question on the coughing in to the elbow/sleeve. If you deem this necessary why would a mask not be a sufficient step above that?

OK. The company I work is American, we are in the process of having inflicted on us compolsory mask wearing because some people in corporate (I might add, with zero factory experience) have decided this is what we will do. We are not alone, seems the way all the big US multinationals are going. We rolled out a pilot and here are the findings of it.
from the people wearing them...
- Masks are uncomfortable, have to keep fidgeting with them.
- Masks make us itch, have to reach under and scratch.
- We took them off as they were too hot
- We took them off as moisture was building up under them.

The observations of management were that initially people started encroaching into the 2m social distance zone as they felt a degree of extra protection. This in spite of us telling them over and over again that social distancing must be maintained with the mask.

So the feedback from the people wearing them means that with a mask, people are bringing their hands into contact with a zone protecting droplet more frequently than if they werent wearing on at all. You dont get that sneezing into your elbow.

Up until last week the expert advise to the Irish government said the same.

Here is what the WHO says (ie a group solely interested in public health)

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

• If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.
  Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
  Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
  If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.
  

So they have a place obviously but that place is not every Tom, Dick and Harry wearing one when they walk their dog.

Itchy, I fully agree with you. There will be certain work place environments that the use of masks  will not be practical. If it's a case that it causes people to breach social distancing then I would agree it would seem impractical. My own work would be the same with noise of machines on the floor. The 2m is already tough without adding a mask to hinder hearing someone even more. The advantages and disadvantages for each workplace would need to be weighed up. I would suggest from my own experience that some of the cheaper ones are extremely uncomfortable if you have to wear all day. But you can get very good n95 masks, that I have used all day with little issues. Check out MSC supplies if your having issues and don't mind paying a wee bit more for a bit of comfort for yourself.  I am by no means arguing that using masks is a panacea. I'm merely saying it would be practical for the general public to use them when out shopping etc and that the evidence would suggest that it greatly prohibits the spread of the virus.

[RadioGAAGAA]

I agree. Just pointing out his error. I think Smurfy must be doing the stats for the Russians as well. Their published Covid-19 death figures are farcical and unbelievable

Yes does any believe Russia with 281,752 cases only has 2,631 deaths.

Yet if you look at the Russian overall (including non-covid) death toll compared to the 5 year average, its miles above.

Hard for Vlad to hide that.


[from someone who thought he'd make a good hard decision to get involved early and nip it in the bud... but didn't do a thing beyond closing borders. While that's a good start, you need belt and braces for this.]

[HiMucker]

I agree. Just pointing out his error. I think Smurfy must be doing the stats for the Russians as well. Their published Covid-19 death figures are farcical and unbelievable

Yes does any believe Russia with 281,752 cases only has 2,631 deaths.

Yet if you look at the Russian overall (including non-covid) death toll compared to the 5 year average, its miles above.

Hard for Vlad to hide that.


[from someone who thought he'd make a good hard decision to get involved early and nip it in the bud... but didn't do a thing beyond closing borders. While that's a good start, you need belt and braces for this.]

What's it at? Do you have a link by any chance?
Have to say I thought Russia would have faired well. I thought dictatorships in general would have faired better as it was easier to take decisive action. Only one person had to be convinced. Look at UAE. One in ten people tested. Locked the place down straight away. I am by no means advocating for dictatorships btw lol.

[Rossfan]

And no cases at all in North Korea