China Coronavirus

[trailer]

This 80% furlough is too generous. People don't want to go back to work. 50% would have been plenty.

Absolutely not. 50% would have seen far too many trying to work reducing the effectiveness of the measures and leading to a huge amount of job losses. The problem with it is the unfair way that it compares to the self employed scheme.

The problem with it is that makes a fool out of key workers.

Furloughed workers are told, stay at home, stay safe. 
Key worker told to go to work, despite perceived / actual risk!

Furloughed worker earning up to £2,500
Key worker earning £10/hr

Furloughed worker has lower than usual expenses (not travelling to work)
Key worker has all usual expenses of getting to work

Key worker working in a hospital, care home, food factory will have family worried that they are going to get the virus and bring it into the house, while the rest of them are off work and still earning at no risk. 

Lots of bullshit in the media about clapping for nurses and key workers, indulged and sponsored by government to distract people from the reality of the situation that government is treating key workers like shit!

Clapping for Key-workers is the most condensing thing around. Just f**king pay them properly.
Anyone who claps for Key-workers and then goes out and votes Tory, or DUP or SF would want to have a word with themselves. Our Nurses had to stand in the rain for days just to get pay parity and safe staffing.

[HiMucker]

This 80% furlough is too generous. People don't want to go back to work. 50% would have been plenty.

Absolutely not. 50% would have seen far too many trying to work reducing the effectiveness of the measures and leading to a huge amount of job losses. The problem with it is the unfair way that it compares to the self employed scheme.

The problem with it is that makes a fool out of key workers.

Furloughed workers are told, stay at home, stay safe. 
Key worker told to go to work, despite perceived / actual risk!

Furloughed worker earning up to £2,500
Key worker earning £10/hr

Furloughed worker has lower than usual expenses (not travelling to work)
Key worker has all usual expenses of getting to work

Key worker working in a hospital, care home, food factory will have family worried that they are going to get the virus and bring it into the house, while the rest of them are off work and still earning at no risk. 

Lots of bullshit in the media about clapping for nurses and key workers, indulged and sponsored by government to distract people from the reality of the situation that government is treating key workers like shit!

Hard to disagree with that. I dont know  how else to do it. It's a tough one. The one thing I would say is that people not furloughed are far more likely to still have a job in the future. There will be mass lay offs, so rather than thinking someone else is getting nearly the same or more for doing nothing, then they should try and think of it that they are actually saving their job. It's the very reason I advised my wife against taking furlough when her company were offering it to certain percentage of staff.

[imtommygunn]

Fully agree on the clapping. The nhs workers I know hate it. If people got treated with a bit of respect in the first place. Also if they started getting proper ppe instead of telling lies every single day maybe places like care homes wouldn't be in the state they're in. That's worth a bit more than clapping.

Lots of distraction going on by UK government in particular.

The likes of the daily mail advocating the clapping - you couldn't make it up.

Today of all days should be an indicator to the uk about how full of it their government is. War heroes who are probably dying of this virus because the government are so full of shit about ppe equipment for the care homes that the war heroes they are supposedly celebrating are in.

[HiMucker]

This 80% furlough is too generous. People don't want to go back to work. 50% would have been plenty.

Absolutely not. 50% would have seen far too many trying to work reducing the effectiveness of the measures and leading to a huge amount of job losses. The problem with it is the unfair way that it compares to the self employed scheme.

Agreed in all that. 50% would be way too low. Though I do think trailer has a point, 80% is extremely generous.

[themac_23]

This 80% furlough is too generous. People don't want to go back to work. 50% would have been plenty.

Absolutely not. 50% would have seen far too many trying to work reducing the effectiveness of the measures and leading to a huge amount of job losses. The problem with it is the unfair way that it compares to the self employed scheme.

The problem with it is that makes a fool out of key workers.

Furloughed workers are told, stay at home, stay safe. 
Key worker told to go to work, despite perceived / actual risk!

Furloughed worker earning up to £2,500
Key worker earning £10/hr

Furloughed worker has lower than usual expenses (not travelling to work)
Key worker has all usual expenses of getting to work

Key worker working in a hospital, care home, food factory will have family worried that they are going to get the virus and bring it into the house, while the rest of them are off work and still earning at no risk. 

Lots of bullshit in the media about clapping for nurses and key workers, indulged and sponsored by government to distract people from the reality of the situation that government is treating key workers like shit!

agree with some of these points, mate of mine got Furloughed and at the time his company emailed all furloughed staff saying they'd make up the other 20% and all would receive full pay until they return to work. the company recently put safety measures in place for at least 3/4 of the workforce to come back, but nobody will go back because they have it in writing they're getting full pay sitting at home. can see why they're not going back but the goodwill the company showed them at the start paying them 100% is being thrown back in their face in my opinion, im sure this is going on all over the country.

[HiMucker]

This 80% furlough is too generous. People don't want to go back to work. 50% would have been plenty.

Absolutely not. 50% would have seen far too many trying to work reducing the effectiveness of the measures and leading to a huge amount of job losses. The problem with it is the unfair way that it compares to the self employed scheme.

Have heard of cases were companies are adhering to SD rules and yet employees who were furloughed are reluctant to come back to work. Spoke with a few business owners last night who this applies to. Indeed a few said that they won't be having a good few back once the scheme ends. This wont end well for the employee unless the economy gets going again and quickly.
I have said it before. This virus is not going away. Long-term lockdown is not a viable solution. We need to get back to work.

My understanding of it is that, if your job is there for you and business has implemented safety measures, ie social distancing, shift changes and the like, then you have to go back to work. If you refuse, then your employer can stop paying you? I'm know this has happened in a few companies here. Obviously a bit of discretion by employers is needed here, with differing individual circumstances.

[RadioGAAGAA]

I missed this - so Roche supposedly have an anti-body test that is >98% accurate. That news would be a couple of weeks old now.

They were hoping to have availability in reasonable bulk by May - but with half the planet looking for it and the UK slow to do anything*, could be a while yet before we see anything tangible here.


*I get the feeling that especially applies if it "wasn't invented here".

[trailer]

This 80% furlough is too generous. People don't want to go back to work. 50% would have been plenty.

Absolutely not. 50% would have seen far too many trying to work reducing the effectiveness of the measures and leading to a huge amount of job losses. The problem with it is the unfair way that it compares to the self employed scheme.

The problem with it is that makes a fool out of key workers.

Furloughed workers are told, stay at home, stay safe. 
Key worker told to go to work, despite perceived / actual risk!

Furloughed worker earning up to £2,500
Key worker earning £10/hr

Furloughed worker has lower than usual expenses (not travelling to work)
Key worker has all usual expenses of getting to work

Key worker working in a hospital, care home, food factory will have family worried that they are going to get the virus and bring it into the house, while the rest of them are off work and still earning at no risk. 

Lots of bullshit in the media about clapping for nurses and key workers, indulged and sponsored by government to distract people from the reality of the situation that government is treating key workers like shit!

agree with some of these points, mate of mine got Furloughed and at the time his company emailed all furloughed staff saying they'd make up the other 20% and all would receive full pay until they return to work. the company recently put safety measures in place for at least 3/4 of the workforce to come back, but nobody will go back because they have it in writing they're getting full pay sitting at home. can see why they're not going back but the goodwill the company showed them at the start paying them 100% is being thrown back in their face in my opinion, im sure this is going on all over the country.

I know of one at least one instance where a company asked a Furloughed worked to come back and he point blank refused. The boss said to me he'll not be having him back...ever. Redundancy.
Another company owner told me he'll not be having 20% of the work force back as he won't need them. This was a company crying looking staff only 2 months ago, never had enough. Says it a good opportunity to get rid of certain employees who under perform.

A wee tip... if you're furloughed, ring your boss and ask when you can come back. This is not paid holiday leave and companies are still responsible for the PAYE tax. It's a drain on the business when nothing is coming in. It can't go on forever.

No matter what anyone says 80% for sitting at home is far far to generous.

[Maroon Manc]

I see Germany has 3 days of increases in virus cases after their first stage of reducing lockdown was introduced. I'd imagine other countries are looking closely to see how it plays out over there.

That's the 5th time that has happened in the last 5 weeks, if it continues over the next few days then its very concerning.

[David McKeown]

What's the alternative?  The 80% isn't only for protecting people here and now. It's for protecting people and the economy in the long term. The economy can't yet get back to normal. The furlough scheme isn't perfect but it's necessary. Set it too low and employees will try to return to work too early undermining what's been done. In addition if it's not there for employers to effectively use then the number of job losses would be far more catastrophic to the economy than the temporary suspension we have at the minute.  The issue I have on it is no upper limit on it when there is an outdated limit on the self employed.

None of that takes away from the fact that key workers are being shafted but the answer is to treat them better not to treat the furloughed worker worse. It all though does make a nonsense of the lie that we are all in it together.

[imtommygunn]

Another wee tip. Maybe some people don't want to go back as they don't feel it's safe yet. If they're not deemed key workers then they are well within their rights. If an employer isn't taking them back into employment because they've not returned early from their furlough then there's a chance they are a shitty employer. There's a bit more to this than purely money.

[SHEEDY]

What's the alternative?  The 80% isn't only for protecting people here and now. It's for protecting people and the economy in the long term. The economy can't yet get back to normal. The furlough scheme isn't perfect but it's necessary. Set it too low and employees will try to return to work too early undermining what's been done. In addition if it's not there for employers to effectively use then the number of job losses would be far more catastrophic to the economy than the temporary suspension we have at the minute.  The issue I have on it is no upper limit on it when there is an outdated limit on the self employed.

None of that takes away from the fact that key workers are being shafted but the answer is to treat them better not to treat the furloughed worker worse. It all though does make a nonsense of the lie that we are all in it together.

if a company has a certain percentage of employees on furlough and others back in work, how does it work then in the event of pay offs? Are all employees treated the same and a redundancy procedure takes place or are furloughed workers in a position were company could say we don't need you back?

[trailer]

Another wee tip. Maybe some people don't want to go back as they don't feel it's safe yet. If they're not deemed key workers then they are well within their rights. If an employer isn't taking them back into employment because they've not returned early from their furlough then there's a chance they are a shitty employer. There's a bit more to this than purely money.

Look there's gonna be a contraction when this is over and jobs will go at good and shitty employers. Work will be scarce and interviews will be competitive.
Believe me this is all money. Cashflow is non existent and there is absolutely no room for passengers.

[imtommygunn]

So are they a passenger because they won't come back from furlough early or are they a passenger anyway?

[David McKeown]

Another wee tip. Maybe some people don't want to go back as they don't feel it's safe yet. If they're not deemed key workers then they are well within their rights. If an employer isn't taking them back into employment because they've not returned early from their furlough then there's a chance they are a shitty employer. There's a bit more to this than purely money.

Look there's gonna be a contraction when this is over and jobs will go at good and shitty employers. Work will be scarce and interviews will be competitive.
Believe me this is all money. Cashflow is non existent and there is absolutely no room for passengers.

Yeah it's a vicious circle too. Less people in work equals less disposable income equals less spending equals less cash flow for business equals more redundancies. (A simplification I know) That to me is the reason why the furlough is necessary.