I have listed below the forwards suggested by posters from the other thread. If you list your top ten forwards I will compile an overall top 10/20 forwards of the last 40 years as voted by you.
Please note:
1. Choose your top ten forwards and post your list to this thread
2. Include only those forwards who have played since 1977
3. Choose from the list below
4. Do NOT number your list - assumed to be 1 to 10
5. Please copy and paste to maintain common spellings and to ease the compilation of the final list.
Thanks
Allen Dinny
Blaney Greg
Boyle Tony
Bradley Eoin
Bradley Paddy
Brogan Alan
Brogan Bernard
Browne Declan
Canavan Peter
Cavanagh Sean
Claffey Vinny
Clarke Ronan
Connolly Diarmuid
Connor Matt
Cooper Colm
Corkery Colin
Coulter Benny
Crowley Johnny
Daly Val
Dolan Dessie
Donnellan Michael
Dowd Tommy
Doyle Johnny
Egan John
Fallon Ja
Fitzgerald Maurice
Flynn Bernard
Forde Mattie
Gallagher Rory
Geraghty Graham
Giles Trevor
Heslin John
Higgins Mick
Hughes Nudie
Joyce Padraic
Kearins Mickey
Keaveney Jimmy
Linden Mickey
Liston Eoin
McCartan James
McConville Oisin
McDonald Ciaran
McDonnell Steven
McGuigan Brian
McGuigan Frank
McHugh Martin
McManus Conor
McManus Tony
Murphy Jimmy Barry
Murphy Michael
Murphy Ollie
Murphy Tommy
O'Brien Kevin
O'Neill Stephen
O'Rourke Colm
O'Sullivan Declan
Rock Barney
Russell Mike Frank
Sheehy Mikey
Spillane Pat
Tompkins Larry
Top 10 players of the past 40 years, but they had to have played in the last 20 years? What?
Quote from: Syferus on April 15, 2017, 05:38:00 PM
Top 10 players of the past 40 years, but they had to have played in the last 20 year? What?
Amended
Am choosing only 1, the rest don't matter.
Matt Connor Offaly
Peter canavan
Maurice Fitzgerald
Matt Connor
Larry Tomkins
Gooch Cooper
Mickey linden
Pat Spillane
Frank McGuigan
Mike Sheehy
John Egan
Half forwards included? they're not real forwards are they?
Where is Joe Brolly's name? Eoin Bradley's name is sitting there, a fine player was Eoin but wtf has he ever won? a McKenna Cup? Joe can blow his kisses to the Tyrone mob on the back of his 2 shiny all stars, modest enough in the scheme of the all time greats but in the context of Derry football, 2 all stars is legend.
Seems like it's only scoring forwards that are included - Galvin / Dooher / Flynn might not get score more than 2-3 points that often but you'd need have at least one on your team
In fairness I had to leave out great players like;
Seán Cavanagh
Benny coulter
Bernard Flynn
Martín McHugh
Stephen McDonnell
Conor McManus
Michael Murphy
Kevin Obrien
Colm O'Rourke
Ten it is so:
Canavan Peter
Connor Matt
Cooper Colm
Egan John
Fitzgerald Maurice
McDonald Ciaran
McGuigan Frank
Russell Mike Frank
Sheehy Mikey
Spillane Pat
People picking less than ten has the potential to unfairly skew the results in favour of the ones those people do pick.
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2017, 11:58:50 PM
Half forwards included? they're not real forwards are they?
Where is Joe Brolly's name? Eoin Bradley's name is sitting there, a fine player was Eoin but wtf has he ever won? a McKenna Cup? Joe can blow his kisses to the Tyrone mob on the back of his 2 shiny all stars, modest enough in the scheme of the all time greats but in the context of Derry football, 2 all stars is legend.
What have trophies got to do with an individual's ability? Many shite forwards won all Ireland's, and many brilliant footballers won little or nothing. It's completely irrelevant.
Quote from: The Stallion on April 16, 2017, 09:04:51 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2017, 11:58:50 PM
Half forwards included? they're not real forwards are they?
Where is Joe Brolly's name? Eoin Bradley's name is sitting there, a fine player was Eoin but wtf has he ever won? a McKenna Cup? Joe can blow his kisses to the Tyrone mob on the back of his 2 shiny all stars, modest enough in the scheme of the all time greats but in the context of Derry football, 2 all stars is legend.
What have trophies got to do with an individual's ability? Many shite forwards won all Ireland's, and many brilliant footballers won little or nothing. It's completely irrelevant.
no shite forward won an all- ireland. You have to be a good player to play for a top 4 county
Canavan Peter
Cavanagh Sean
Connolly Diarmuid
Cooper Colm
Donnellan Michael
Egan John
Fallon Ja
Flynn Bernard
Linden Mickey
McDonnell Steven
Only going on who I saw playing:
Brogan Bernard
Canavan Peter
Cavanagh Sean
Connolly Diarmuid
Cooper Colm
Fitzgerald Maurice
Forde Mattie
McManus Conor
Murphy Michael
O'Neill Stephen
Canavan Peter
Connor Matt
Frank mcGuigan
Blaney Greg
Sheehy Mikey
Spillane Pat
Fitzgerald Maurice
Bradley Paddy
Keaveney Jimmy
Liston Eoin
Quote from: INDIANA on April 16, 2017, 10:05:09 AM
Quote from: The Stallion on April 16, 2017, 09:04:51 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2017, 11:58:50 PM
Half forwards included? they're not real forwards are they?
Where is Joe Brolly's name? Eoin Bradley's name is sitting there, a fine player was Eoin but wtf has he ever won? a McKenna Cup? Joe can blow his kisses to the Tyrone mob on the back of his 2 shiny all stars, modest enough in the scheme of the all time greats but in the context of Derry football, 2 all stars is legend.
What have trophies got to do with an individual's ability? Many shite forwards won all Ireland's, and many brilliant footballers won little or nothing. It's completely irrelevant.
no shite forward won an all- ireland. You have to be a good player to play for a top 4 county
Average players have won All Irelands, There are plenty of average players in Kerry and Kilkenny with pockets full of medals. They were lucky enough to make the cut and were born in the right county at the right time.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 16, 2017, 10:05:09 AM
Quote from: The Stallion on April 16, 2017, 09:04:51 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2017, 11:58:50 PM
Half forwards included? they're not real forwards are they?
Where is Joe Brolly's name? Eoin Bradley's name is sitting there, a fine player was Eoin but wtf has he ever won? a McKenna Cup? Joe can blow his kisses to the Tyrone mob on the back of his 2 shiny all stars, modest enough in the scheme of the all time greats but in the context of Derry football, 2 all stars is legend.
What have trophies got to do with an individual's ability? Many shite forwards won all Ireland's, and many brilliant footballers won little or nothing. It's completely irrelevant.
no shite forward won an all- ireland. You have to be a good player to play for a top 4 county
And in any case, Joe's 2 All Stars were more of a recognition of the player's talent and standing in the game over those 2 years, not a competition trophy per se.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 16, 2017, 01:10:48 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 16, 2017, 10:05:09 AM
Quote from: The Stallion on April 16, 2017, 09:04:51 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2017, 11:58:50 PM
Half forwards included? they're not real forwards are they?
Where is Joe Brolly's name? Eoin Bradley's name is sitting there, a fine player was Eoin but wtf has he ever won? a McKenna Cup? Joe can blow his kisses to the Tyrone mob on the back of his 2 shiny all stars, modest enough in the scheme of the all time greats but in the context of Derry football, 2 all stars is legend.
What have trophies got to do with an individual's ability? Many shite forwards won all Ireland's, and many brilliant footballers won little or nothing. It's completely irrelevant.
no shite forward won an all- ireland. You have to be a good player to play for a top 4 county
Average players have won All Irelands, There are plenty of average players in Kerry and Kilkenny with pockets full of medals. They were lucky enough to make the cut and were born in the right county at the right time.
And forwards get subbed in finals all the time
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2017, 11:58:50 PM
Half forwards included? they're not real forwards are they?
Where is Joe Brolly's name? Eoin Bradley's name is sitting there, a fine player was Eoin but wtf has he ever won? a McKenna Cup? Joe can blow his kisses to the Tyrone mob on the back of his 2 shiny all stars, modest enough in the scheme of the all time greats but in the context of Derry football, 2 all stars is legend.
No one named Brolly in the first thread as suitable for inclusion in the list.
The Bradley brothers were suggested by someone, so they were included. Apart from removing those not falling inside the arbitrary 40 year limit (the viewing window for 98% of posters) there has been no editing of the names provided by posters in the first thread.
If you want to include Brolly in your top ten then feel free.
It is not about the achievement of other awards or medals that should determine inclusion on a top ten list but your opinion on who should be in a top ten list.
Quote from: Main Street on April 16, 2017, 01:18:15 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 16, 2017, 10:05:09 AM
Quote from: The Stallion on April 16, 2017, 09:04:51 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2017, 11:58:50 PM
Half forwards included? they're not real forwards are they?
Where is Joe Brolly's name? Eoin Bradley's name is sitting there, a fine player was Eoin but wtf has he ever won? a McKenna Cup? Joe can blow his kisses to the Tyrone mob on the back of his 2 shiny all stars, modest enough in the scheme of the all time greats but in the context of Derry football, 2 all stars is legend.
What have trophies got to do with an individual's ability? Many shite forwards won all Ireland's, and many brilliant footballers won little or nothing. It's completely irrelevant.
no shite forward won an all- ireland. You have to be a good player to play for a top 4 county
And in any case, Joe's 2 All Stars were more of a recognition of the player's talent and standing in the game over those 2 years, not a competition trophy per se.
I suppose by this logic a player who has never been recognized as the best player in any given season by winnning footballer of the year shouldn't even come into the reckoning of best forward of his generation never mind best forward ever.....so Joe was right about Gooch after all!
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 16, 2017, 02:16:23 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 16, 2017, 01:18:15 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 16, 2017, 10:05:09 AM
Quote from: The Stallion on April 16, 2017, 09:04:51 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2017, 11:58:50 PM
Half forwards included? they're not real forwards are they?
Where is Joe Brolly's name? Eoin Bradley's name is sitting there, a fine player was Eoin but wtf has he ever won? a McKenna Cup? Joe can blow his kisses to the Tyrone mob on the back of his 2 shiny all stars, modest enough in the scheme of the all time greats but in the context of Derry football, 2 all stars is legend.
What have trophies got to do with an individual's ability? Many shite forwards won all Ireland's, and many brilliant footballers won little or nothing. It's completely irrelevant.
no shite forward won an all- ireland. You have to be a good player to play for a top 4 county
And in any case, Joe's 2 All Stars were more of a recognition of the player's talent and standing in the game over those 2 years, not a competition trophy per se.
I suppose by this logic a player who has never been recognized as the best player in any given season by winning footballer of the year shouldn't even come into the reckoning of best forward of his generation never mind best forward ever.....so Joe was right about Gooch after all!
That's not logic Benny, that's twisted thinking on your part.
When it comes down to Joe V Eoin Bradley, Joe is the logical choice as the better candidate from the Derry fold.
Blaney Greg
Brogan Bernard
Canavan Peter
Connor Matt
Coulter Benny
Spillane Pat
Donnellan Michael
Hughes Nudie
Linden Mickey
McGuigan Frank
Eoin Bradley was a better footballer than Joe Brolly regardless of medals or All-stars.
Will most likely change tomorrow.
Fitzgerald Maurice
Canavan Peter
Connor Matt
Cooper Colm
Tompkins Larry
Sheehy Mikey
Egan John
Blaney Greg
Brogan Bernard
Connolly Diarmuid
Seanie Johnston
I'd have Jimmy Keaveney in there.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on April 17, 2017, 11:24:42 AM
I'd have Jimmy Keaveney in there.
If you bother to read the list to pick from you would find him there!
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on April 17, 2017, 12:11:09 AM
Seanie Johnston
Nobody suggested him for the previous list. Do you still want him back in Kildare given the recent outing against Galway?
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 17, 2017, 12:26:16 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on April 17, 2017, 11:24:42 AM
I'd have Jimmy Keaveney in there.
If you bother to read the list to pick from you would find him there!
Sorry sir - I'll just have to be more careful. ::)
Canavan Peter
Cooper Colm
Fitzgerald Maurice
Giles Trevor
Linden Mickey
O'Neill Stephen
Sheehy Mikey
Spillane Pat
McConville Oisin
McDonald Ciaran
Not to be a spoilt sport, but your never gonna get a top 10 imo, cause as a down man I've argued how good Benny Coulter was, and have been told he wouldn't get on the 90's teams, which I disagree with and have been told that's my opinion
Quote from: UlsterMan2 on April 18, 2017, 02:15:40 AM
Not to be a spoilt sport, but your never gonna get a top 10 imo, cause as a down man I've argued how good Benny Coulter was, and have been told he wouldn't get on the 90's teams, which I disagree with and have been told that's my opinion
Coulter in his pomp perhaps but was he good enough for long enough?
PTG, SON and Sean C for example have all been at the top of the game for much much longer
I'm baffled as to how so many people think Coulter is even worthy of consideration. He wasn't even in the top 5 forwards in Ulster during his heyday.
Quote from: The Stallion on April 18, 2017, 09:57:25 AM
I'm baffled as to how so many people think Coulter is even worthy of consideration. He wasn't even in the top 5 forwards in Ulster during his heyday.
Dont you know he scored a great goal in an under 16 final?
You Tube it...........worthy of admission to the list alone
Connor Matt
Cooper Colm
Corkery Colin
Donnellan Michael
Fitzgerald Maurice
Giles Trevor
Keaveney Jimmy
Spillane Pat
Tompkins Larry
Maurice Fitzgerald
Colm Cooper
John Egan
Peter Canavan
Oisin McConville
Stephen ONeill
Ciaran McDonald
Mickey Linden
Colm ORourke
Larry Thompkins
Benny Coulter was a poor man's Ollie Murphy.
That's still pretty damn good though.
its near an impossible thing to do, these lists.
you could pick four different lists of ten players, and still not be content which one to go for.
to reinforce this, even just going through some leinster counties in my head, there are men, that I saw playing, left out of main list, who maybe should have made it.
surely brian Stafford of meath could have made main list. with all the recent "crowing" about dean rock's abilities as a free taker, anyone that saw stafford regularly would agree with me that he would put dean in his pocket as regard free-taking.
the people of Longford wouldn't have too many bad things to say about dessie barry ?
in Westmeath, just before dessie dolan, was larry giles, an exceptional player, but very few outside leinster would have seen him play.
offaly's peter brady ? (IMO a finer player than vinny claffey)
laois' tom curly predergast or beano McDonald, or ross munelly ?
louth's Stephan white ?
surely the biggest omission of them all is Dublin's Vinnie murphy ? (possibly bobby doyle ? dessie Farrell ?)
not leinster, but same could be said of cavan's ronan carolan, as I said about Stafford.
if I kept going around the counties, I say id pick a few more that should have made the main list.
none of above is meant as a criticism Owen B ,as I say, selecting ten players is a near impossible thing to do.
as soon as you'd settle on ten, you'd realise you've left out someone !
You'd nearly have to break it down by category of forward.
A high-scoring corner forward will always get more headlines than a wing-forward who's a breaking-ball machine and covers every blade of grass on the field, or a centre-forward who pulls all the strings.
Fcuk sake, it's only a bitta crack.
What's the obsession with forwards anyway?
Top 10 midfielders of the last 40 years would be more interesting.
Although we can pretty much ignore the last 10 years.
Quote from: The Stallion on April 18, 2017, 09:57:25 AM
I'm baffled as to how so many people think Coulter is even worthy of consideration. He wasn't even in the top 5 forwards in Ulster during his heyday.
Benny didnt have the quality around him that steven o neil or peter canavan had . Pu them or the Gooch in a team that compared to most of the Down teams Coulter played in and i wonder if they would get the same reverance they hold now.
It's irrelevant how good or bad the team around him were, you can tell the quality of players like Forde even when they are in poor sides. And the bottom line is Coulter just wasn't that great.
A good footballer but not a great one. Not even in the top 5 in Ulster in his era.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 18, 2017, 12:34:20 PM
You'd nearly have to break it down by category of forward.
A high-scoring corner forward will always get more headlines than a wing-forward who's a breaking-ball machine and covers every blade of grass on the field, or a centre-forward who pulls all the strings.
Too much nuance, Jinxy. The people don't like nuance.
Quote from: The Stallion on April 18, 2017, 04:29:25 PM
It's irrelevant how good or bad the team around him were, you can tell the quality of players like Forde even when they are in poor sides. And the bottom line is Coulter just wasn't that great.
A good footballer but not a great one. Not even in the top 5 in Ulster in his era.
Coulter was a great forward.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 18, 2017, 06:04:40 PM
Quote from: The Stallion on April 18, 2017, 04:29:25 PM
It's irrelevant how good or bad the team around him were, you can tell the quality of players like Forde even when they are in poor sides. And the bottom line is Coulter just wasn't that great.
A good footballer but not a great one. Not even in the top 5 in Ulster in his era.
Coulter was a great forward.
He certainly was.
Quote from: longballin on April 18, 2017, 06:05:41 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 18, 2017, 06:04:40 PM
Quote from: The Stallion on April 18, 2017, 04:29:25 PM
It's irrelevant how good or bad the team around him were, you can tell the quality of players like Forde even when they are in poor sides. And the bottom line is Coulter just wasn't that great.
A good footballer but not a great one. Not even in the top 5 in Ulster in his era.
Coulter was a great forward.
He certainly was.
Coulter would have been full forward on the 91 and 94 teams, but he'd still be behind Greg Blaney, Linden and James beag in terms of greatness. It's unlikely that any county (outside Kerry) has produced four of the top ten forwards of the last 40 years.
It's been mentioned a few times on here that it's not possible to compare forwards from successful counties with those from mediocre counties.
I reckon it is, so long as you try to apply a sensible initial criteria - one which would have eff all to do with playing style, and everything to with outcome.
Pick a player and then over the course of his career, evaluate whether his county regularly exceeded (or at least achieved) expectations. If so, then you can logically observe that his ability MIGHT have had the positive influence that an all time great should have had. That's the objective bit. After that, it's subjective whether he was one of the primary causes for the positive performance of his county. But at least there's a baseline in place.
---
I love Benny Coulter dearly. He was a bright shining light in a time of darkness for Down; one of the few reasons to pay in to watch Down. But using my criteria he doesn't make it as the cold hard facts is that the team he played in underachieved apart from one season.
There'd be a similar story at play for Paddy Bradley and his little brother, for as wonderfully talented as they were, they never really dragged Derry to a higher pedestal.
Someone mentioned Vinny Murphy above. He's a cut below Colin Corkery. So talented, but didn't deliver the big different often enough. They don't deserve to be any higher than Donnacha O'Connor or Tony Boyle (fantastic players, but not quite at this level).
Funnily enough Joe Brolly would be a genuine contender for the list. His presence gave physically strong but workmanlike Derry sides the ability to trade blows with the most talented sides in Ireland. Is that not the marker of a great forward?
That's said, he's an absolute twat for his recent attack on Gooch. The one player who ensured Kerry had chance of being the "team of the Noughties" was him.
On a side note. How Stevie O'Neill is a constant in these discussions but Owen Mulligan is an absence, I'll never understand. Stevie should have been a better player. He was bigger, stronger, quicker, meaner, and could kick a bal twice as far. But Tyrone needed Mulligan too to play at the top table.
---
my 10:
Brogan Bernard
Canavan Peter
Cooper Colm
Doyle John
Flynn Paul
Joyce Padraig
McConville Oisin
McDonnell Steven
Moran Andy or Linden Mickey. Genuinely can't decide which county would have been less relevant without their appearance
Murphy Michael
Benny Coulter is Ulsters top championship goal scorer ever , and he played on some brutal teams. Down have had some great forwards and Benny is the best I have seen. Down GAA Goat
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 18, 2017, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: longballin on April 18, 2017, 06:05:41 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 18, 2017, 06:04:40 PM
Quote from: The Stallion on April 18, 2017, 04:29:25 PM
It's irrelevant how good or bad the team around him were, you can tell the quality of players like Forde even when they are in poor sides. And the bottom line is Coulter just wasn't that great.
A good footballer but not a great one. Not even in the top 5 in Ulster in his era.
Coulter was a great forward.
He certainly was.
Coulter would have been full forward on the 91 and 94 teams, but he'd still be behind Greg Blaney, Linden and James beag in terms of greatness. It's unlikely that any county (outside Kerry) has produced four of the top ten forwards of the last 40 years.
Be quiet for God sake. Are you saying Down should have 4 players in the top 10 for last 40 years??
4 from Down & 4 from Kerry so by your reckoning only 2 of the following would make it...........PTG, Frank McGuigan, SON, Mugsy, Oisin, Colm ORourke, P Joyce. Ciaran McDonald etc etc etc
Fitzgerald Maurice
Canavan Peter
Cooper Colm
Joyce Padraic
O'Sullivan Declan
Donnellan Michael
Brogan Bernard
McDonnell Steven
Flynn Paul
O'Neill Stephen
Blaney Greg
Canavan Peter
Connor Matt
Cooper Colm
Fitzgerald Maurice
Linden Mickey
McHugh Martin
Sheehy Mikey
Spillane Pat
Brogan Bernard
My pick, I admit there's a slight Armagh bias:
Connor Matt
Canavan Peter
Fitzgerald Maurice
Spillane Pat
Sheehy Mikey
Egan John
McDonnell Steven
Cooper Colm
Tompkins Larry
McConville Oisin
Quote from: Jinxy on April 18, 2017, 01:23:42 PM
What's the obsession with forwards anyway?
Top 10 midfielders of the last 40 years would be more interesting.
Although we can pretty much ignore the last 10 years.
because after all the pushing and shoving scores win games . many teams who were otherwise excellent just could not score enough and got no where .
Im thinking mayo mid to late 90's in particular
Canavan
Gooch
Greg Blaney
Frank McGuigan
Maurice Fitzgerald
Bernard Brogan
Mickey Linden
Tony Boyle
Stevey O'Neill
Stevey McDonnell
Slight ulster bias but those are the ones I enjoyed the most
Quote from: Taylor on April 19, 2017, 09:14:18 AM
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 18, 2017, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: longballin on April 18, 2017, 06:05:41 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 18, 2017, 06:04:40 PM
Quote from: The Stallion on April 18, 2017, 04:29:25 PM
It's irrelevant how good or bad the team around him were, you can tell the quality of players like Forde even when they are in poor sides. And the bottom line is Coulter just wasn't that great.
A good footballer but not a great one. Not even in the top 5 in Ulster in his era.
Coulter was a great forward.
He certainly was.
Coulter would have been full forward on the 91 and 94 teams, but he'd still be behind Greg Blaney, Linden and James beag in terms of greatness. It's unlikely that any county (outside Kerry) has produced four of the top ten forwards of the last 40 years.
Be quiet for God sake. Are you saying Down should have 4 players in the top 10 for last 40 years??
4 from Down & 4 from Kerry so by your reckoning only 2 of the following would make it...........PTG, Frank McGuigan, SON, Mugsy, Oisin, Colm ORourke, P Joyce. Ciaran McDonald etc etc etc
No that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying anyone seriously considering Coulter should have him behind the other three I named and there's no way Down has had four of the best 10 forwards of the last 40 years. If you had checked my selection, you'd see one Down man, Blaney (#8). And only one from your list also, Canavan (#2).
I would contend that it is you who should be quiet for God sake.
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 19, 2017, 03:46:49 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 19, 2017, 09:14:18 AM
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 18, 2017, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: longballin on April 18, 2017, 06:05:41 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 18, 2017, 06:04:40 PM
Quote from: The Stallion on April 18, 2017, 04:29:25 PM
It's irrelevant how good or bad the team around him were, you can tell the quality of players like Forde even when they are in poor sides. And the bottom line is Coulter just wasn't that great.
A good footballer but not a great one. Not even in the top 5 in Ulster in his era.
Coulter was a great forward.
He certainly was.
Coulter would have been full forward on the 91 and 94 teams, but he'd still be behind Greg Blaney, Linden and James beag in terms of greatness. It's unlikely that any county (outside Kerry) has produced four of the top ten forwards of the last 40 years.
Be quiet for God sake. Are you saying Down should have 4 players in the top 10 for last 40 years??
4 from Down & 4 from Kerry so by your reckoning only 2 of the following would make it...........PTG, Frank McGuigan, SON, Mugsy, Oisin, Colm ORourke, P Joyce. Ciaran McDonald etc etc etc
No that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying anyone seriously considering Coulter should have him behind the other three I named and there's no way Down has had four of the best 10 forwards of the last 40 years. If you had checked my selection, you'd see one Down man, Blaney (#8). And only one from your list also, Canavan (#2).
I would contend that it is you who should be quiet for God sake.
Phew - good man.
That's a better, clearer and more coherent statement
Quote from: thewobbler on April 18, 2017, 11:39:37 PM
It's been mentioned a few times on here that it's not possible to compare forwards from successful counties with those from mediocre counties.
I reckon it is, so long as you try to apply a sensible initial criteria - one which would have eff all to do with playing style, and everything to with outcome.
Pick a player and then over the course of his career, evaluate whether his county regularly exceeded (or at least achieved) expectations. If so, then you can logically observe that his ability MIGHT have had the positive influence that an all time great should have had. That's the objective bit. After that, it's subjective whether he was one of the primary causes for the positive performance of his county. But at least there's a baseline in place.
---
I love Benny Coulter dearly. He was a bright shining light in a time of darkness for Down; one of the few reasons to pay in to watch Down. But using my criteria he doesn't make it as the cold hard facts is that the team he played in underachieved apart from one season.
There'd be a similar story at play for Paddy Bradley and his little brother, for as wonderfully talented as they were, they never really dragged Derry to a higher pedestal.
Someone mentioned Vinny Murphy above. He's a cut below Colin Corkery. So talented, but didn't deliver the big different often enough. They don't deserve to be any higher than Donnacha O'Connor or Tony Boyle (fantastic players, but not quite at this level).
Funnily enough Joe Brolly would be a genuine contender for the list. His presence gave physically strong but workmanlike Derry sides the ability to trade blows with the most talented sides in Ireland. Is that not the marker of a great forward?
That's said, he's an absolute twat for his recent attack on Gooch. The one player who ensured Kerry had chance of being the "team of the Noughties" was him.
On a side note. How Stevie O'Neill is a constant in these discussions but Owen Mulligan is an absence, I'll never understand. Stevie should have been a better player. He was bigger, stronger, quicker, meaner, and could kick a bal twice as far. But Tyrone needed Mulligan too to play at the top table.
---
my 10:
Brogan Bernard
Canavan Peter
Cooper Colm
Doyle John
Flynn Paul
Joyce Padraig
McConville Oisin
McDonnell Steven
Moran Andy or Linden Mickey. Genuinely can't decide which county would have been less relevant without their appearance
Murphy Michael
I have to strongly disagree with you on Paddy Bradley.
Paddy Bradley, for me, is probably the best forward to come out of Ulster since Canavan.
You look at the scoring records in Ulster and he's the top scorer in Ulster Championship history and I'd say his scoring record form play would also be the top. His intercounty career effectively lasted 13 years which is probably considerably less than his other rivals in that era. His intercounty career also spanned a golden era where Ulster sides were heavily dominant at All Ireland level. Tyrone, Armagh and Donegal collected 5 All Irelands between them in that time, Down appeared in an All Ireland final and Fermanagh and Derry appeared in semi finals with Monaghan being very close to making one on a couple of occasions.
He was pretty much a one man team in that time, around the time Dessie Mone was keeping Gooch in his pocket, he had to mark Bradley in a qualifier game against Derry. Bradley took him for 2-05 from play, I think he had walked off the panel in the week building up to the game but it pretty much told the story on how reliant Derry were on him. He also gave Dublin a torrid time in an All Ireland qf about 7 or 8 years back. I think he brought that Derry team as far as any man could have, if the rest of the footballers in Derry had half the commitment and drive as Bradley had then maybe they would have a couple of Ulster titles or more big Championship days out in Croke Park over the past 20 years.
He was as heavy a scoring forward as I can recall.
I would tend to agree on Bradley, although I think McDonnell and O'Neill were very good too. The other thing about Bradley is he wasn't especially quick, strong or good in the air yet he still destroyed teams in his pomp.
Quote from: The Stallion on April 19, 2017, 08:03:34 PM
I would tend to agree on Bradley, although I think McDonnell and O'Neill were very good too. The other thing about Bradley is he wasn't especially quick, strong or good in the air yet he still destroyed teams in his pomp.
He wasn't the biggest or the quickest but I felt his strength was exceptional, he was excellent at holding off the most stickiest of markers and getting himself time and space.
It was a golden era for Ulster forwards and O'Neill and McDonnell were top drawer as well as a few more but I'd probably have Bradley over them as he didn't have the same level of quality around him yet the stats speak for themselves.
I think that's a fair enough assessment. Although there are plenty who would tell you he's not even the best in his family. Eoin was pacier and more of a goal threat but maybe lacked the intelligence, consistency and temperament of Paddy.
Quote from: thewobbler on April 18, 2017, 11:39:37 PM
It's been mentioned a few times on here that it's not possible to compare forwards from successful counties with those from mediocre counties.
I reckon it is, so long as you try to apply a sensible initial criteria - one which would have eff all to do with playing style, and everything to with outcome.
Pick a player and then over the course of his career, evaluate whether his county regularly exceeded (or at least achieved) expectations. If so, then you can logically observe that his ability MIGHT have had the positive influence that an all time great should have had. That's the objective bit. After that, it's subjective whether he was one of the primary causes for the positive performance of his county. But at least there's a baseline in place.
---
I love Benny Coulter dearly. He was a bright shining light in a time of darkness for Down; one of the few reasons to pay in to watch Down. But using my criteria he doesn't make it as the cold hard facts is that the team he played in underachieved apart from one season.
There'd be a similar story at play for Paddy Bradley and his little brother, for as wonderfully talented as they were, they never really dragged Derry to a higher pedestal.
Someone mentioned Vinny Murphy above. He's a cut below Colin Corkery. So talented, but didn't deliver the big different often enough. They don't deserve to be any higher than Donnacha O'Connor or Tony Boyle (fantastic players, but not quite at this level).
Funnily enough Joe Brolly would be a genuine contender for the list. His presence gave physically strong but workmanlike Derry sides the ability to trade blows with the most talented sides in Ireland. Is that not the marker of a great forward?
That's said, he's an absolute twat for his recent attack on Gooch. The one player who ensured Kerry had chance of being the "team of the Noughties" was him.
On a side note. How Stevie O'Neill is a constant in these discussions but Owen Mulligan is an absence, I'll never understand. Stevie should have been a better player. He was bigger, stronger, quicker, meaner, and could kick a bal twice as far. But Tyrone needed Mulligan too to play at the top table.
---
my 10:
Brogan Bernard
Canavan Peter
Cooper Colm
Doyle John
Flynn Paul
Joyce Padraig
McConville Oisin
McDonnell Steven
Moran Andy or Linden Mickey. Genuinely can't decide which county would have been less relevant without their appearance
Murphy Michael
I know there's a fair chance you're on the wind-up, but in my opinion Joe Brolly wouldn't make the top ten Derry forwards of the last forty years, let alone merit discussion as a possibility for the top ten overall.
For me, it was tight between Stephen O'Neill and McDonnell. What I was looking for was a selection of moments that you'll always remember. Not just one or two like Mugsy. O'Neill and McDonnell had many big scores in big games or moments of brilliance. The Armagh man mostly between 02 and 06 and O'Neill 05-11. Dooher had some fine moments too of sheer class. Big Muldoon too but Derry were too inconsistent.
Quote from: The Stallion on April 19, 2017, 08:42:48 PM
I think that's a fair enough assessment. Although there are plenty who would tell you he's not even the best in his family. Eoin was pacier and more of a goal threat but maybe lacked the intelligence, consistency and temperament of Paddy.
Ya, there's definitely a plausible side to that. Eoin had a free spirit about him on the pitch and was a joy to watch as you didn't know what he'd do next but when it comes to substance over style then it's Paddy every day of a wet week.
Speaking of Stevie McDonnell.....
Just found this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=014GZe8b0bE
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 19, 2017, 09:38:02 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 18, 2017, 11:39:37 PM
It's been mentioned a few times on here that it's not possible to compare forwards from successful counties with those from mediocre counties.
I reckon it is, so long as you try to apply a sensible initial criteria - one which would have eff all to do with playing style, and everything to with outcome.
Pick a player and then over the course of his career, evaluate whether his county regularly exceeded (or at least achieved) expectations. If so, then you can logically observe that his ability MIGHT have had the positive influence that an all time great should have had. That's the objective bit. After that, it's subjective whether he was one of the primary causes for the positive performance of his county. But at least there's a baseline in place.
---
I love Benny Coulter dearly. He was a bright shining light in a time of darkness for Down; one of the few reasons to pay in to watch Down. But using my criteria he doesn't make it as the cold hard facts is that the team he played in underachieved apart from one season.
There'd be a similar story at play for Paddy Bradley and his little brother, for as wonderfully talented as they were, they never really dragged Derry to a higher pedestal.
Someone mentioned Vinny Murphy above. He's a cut below Colin Corkery. So talented, but didn't deliver the big different often enough. They don't deserve to be any higher than Donnacha O'Connor or Tony Boyle (fantastic players, but not quite at this level).
Funnily enough Joe Brolly would be a genuine contender for the list. His presence gave physically strong but workmanlike Derry sides the ability to trade blows with the most talented sides in Ireland. Is that not the marker of a great forward?
That's said, he's an absolute twat for his recent attack on Gooch. The one player who ensured Kerry had chance of being the "team of the Noughties" was him.
On a side note. How Stevie O'Neill is a constant in these discussions but Owen Mulligan is an absence, I'll never understand. Stevie should have been a better player. He was bigger, stronger, quicker, meaner, and could kick a bal twice as far. But Tyrone needed Mulligan too to play at the top table.
---
my 10:
Brogan Bernard
Canavan Peter
Cooper Colm
Doyle John
Flynn Paul
Joyce Padraig
McConville Oisin
McDonnell Steven
Moran Andy or Linden Mickey. Genuinely can't decide which county would have been less relevant without their appearance
Murphy Michael
I know there's a fair chance you're on the wind-up, but in my opinion Joe Brolly wouldn't make the top ten Derry forwards of the last forty years, let alone merit discussion as a possibility for the top ten overall.
Not so much of a wind up as trying to set a baseline.
There are absolutely majestic forwards at every level from junior b to senior county. Players who have that dash of class, spirit, power, whatever, that make them memorable.
Then there's the forwards, who in my opinion, genuinely win matches and are the difference between a team reaching its potential and not.
In terms of talent, Brolly is a step below most of the names mentioned in this thread. But in fairness to the argumentative little ****, he had a remarkable habit of turning up when it mattered. More of an Andy Moran than a Colm Cooper, but absolutely vital to Derry's best ever period of football.
By the way, I've watched Derry for 30 of those 40 years now. I'd grant you Paddy Bradley and Enda Muldoon no problem. Maybe Enda Gormley at a push. Not Skinner, for although he was a truly gifted player he didn't do what Brolly did for Derry. Nor has Mark Lynch. Barton was classy but not classy enough for this conversation. So I'm guessing Derry had a well of great forwards in the eighties?
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 19, 2017, 11:32:36 PM
Speaking of Stevie McDonnell.....
Just found this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=014GZe8b0bE
Led me on to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCj-XkEr-gI
How'd that happen?
Peter Canavan
Colm O Rourke
Matt Connor
Maurice Fitzgerald
Johnny Corvan
Larry Tompkins
Stevie O Neill
Martin Mc Hugh
Frank Mc Guigan
Ciaran Mc Donald
Mickey Linden definitely has to be up there. One of the best forwards of my generation could kick points from anywhere off both feet and had pace to burn.
Out of interest heres Peter Canavans Top 6 forwards he played with or against. Fast forward to 15 mins in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4Zh0CE-lzA&t=5s
PTG, SON, Oisin, P Bradley, Lindon were all well in front of McDonnell
McDonnell was far better than McConville in my opinion. No doubt he was good at his peak(although not as good as McDonnell), but for much of his career McConville was little more than a free-taker.
Little more than a free taker ::) don't ever underestimated the importance of top free taker.
I know a good free taker is worth his weight in gold but i want a bit more than that from a forward to be considered an all time great.
Quote from: The Stallion on April 20, 2017, 11:24:01 AM
McDonnell was far better than McConville in my opinion. No doubt he was good at his peak(although not as good as McDonnell), but for much of his career McConville was little more than a free-taker.
Little more than a free taker?
Your memory is hazy.
Oisin McConville was a top class finisher throughout his career but his influence from play became limited in the second half of his career from his mid-late twenties onwards. Partly due to injury as he had ongoing back issues and then he was having off field difficulties as well which can't have helped him either. McDonnell was a more natural all round footballer whereas McConville was just a great finisher who also excelled at dead balls and in pressure situations. In terms of overall performances at county level, I would place McDonnell well above McConville for both consistency and longevity. Both very good players in their own right but McConville's club medal haul as part of an unbelievable era for Crossmaglen will likely never be bettered.
Who is johnny corvan bs?
I think mcconville was most effective club player ever but not as good as mcdonnell etc at county.
Quote from: yellowcard on April 20, 2017, 07:33:14 PM
Oisin McConville was a top class finisher throughout his career but his influence from play became limited in the second half of his career from his mid-late twenties onwards. Partly due to injury as he had ongoing back issues and then he was having off field difficulties as well which can't have helped him either. McDonnell was a more natural all round footballer whereas McConville was just a great finisher who also excelled at dead balls and in pressure situations. In terms of overall performances at county level, I would place McDonnell well above McConville for both consistency and longevity. Both very good players in their own right but McConville's club medal haul as part of an unbelievable era for Crossmaglen will likely never be bettered.
I would also say McConville got the short straw with regard to being deployed in the half forward line. I think he was much more dangerous inside but when Ronan Clarke came on the scene Armagh then had Marsen, McDonnell and Clarke inside and as McConville was the more mobile and the one with the best engine he was deployed further away from goal. That Armagh forward line had serious firepower, they had three or four player who could let loose and score a bucket load.
I agree Brolly shouldn't be on the list. Wouldn't be in the top 5 Derry forwards of the last 25 years.
Who would derry's top 5 be stallion? Bradley and muldoon stand out but hard to pick standout ones aside from those two.Spoofer doesn't count in those 25 years ;-)
Quote from: thewobbler on April 19, 2017, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 19, 2017, 09:38:02 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 18, 2017, 11:39:37 PM
It's been mentioned a few times on here that it's not possible to compare forwards from successful counties with those from mediocre counties.
I reckon it is, so long as you try to apply a sensible initial criteria - one which would have eff all to do with playing style, and everything to with outcome.
Pick a player and then over the course of his career, evaluate whether his county regularly exceeded (or at least achieved) expectations. If so, then you can logically observe that his ability MIGHT have had the positive influence that an all time great should have had. That's the objective bit. After that, it's subjective whether he was one of the primary causes for the positive performance of his county. But at least there's a baseline in place.
---
I love Benny Coulter dearly. He was a bright shining light in a time of darkness for Down; one of the few reasons to pay in to watch Down. But using my criteria he doesn't make it as the cold hard facts is that the team he played in underachieved apart from one season.
There'd be a similar story at play for Paddy Bradley and his little brother, for as wonderfully talented as they were, they never really dragged Derry to a higher pedestal.
Someone mentioned Vinny Murphy above. He's a cut below Colin Corkery. So talented, but didn't deliver the big different often enough. They don't deserve to be any higher than Donnacha O'Connor or Tony Boyle (fantastic players, but not quite at this level).
Funnily enough Joe Brolly would be a genuine contender for the list. His presence gave physically strong but workmanlike Derry sides the ability to trade blows with the most talented sides in Ireland. Is that not the marker of a great forward?
That's said, he's an absolute twat for his recent attack on Gooch. The one player who ensured Kerry had chance of being the "team of the Noughties" was him.
On a side note. How Stevie O'Neill is a constant in these discussions but Owen Mulligan is an absence, I'll never understand. Stevie should have been a better player. He was bigger, stronger, quicker, meaner, and could kick a bal twice as far. But Tyrone needed Mulligan too to play at the top table.
---
my 10:
Brogan Bernard
Canavan Peter
Cooper Colm
Doyle John
Flynn Paul
Joyce Padraig
McConville Oisin
McDonnell Steven
Moran Andy or Linden Mickey. Genuinely can't decide which county would have been less relevant without their appearance
Murphy Michael
I know there's a fair chance you're on the wind-up, but in my opinion Joe Brolly wouldn't make the top ten Derry forwards of the last forty years, let alone merit discussion as a possibility for the top ten overall.
Not so much of a wind up as trying to set a baseline.
There are absolutely majestic forwards at every level from junior b to senior county. Players who have that dash of class, spirit, power, whatever, that make them memorable.
Then there's the forwards, who in my opinion, genuinely win matches and are the difference between a team reaching its potential and not.
In terms of talent, Brolly is a step below most of the names mentioned in this thread. But in fairness to the argumentative little ****, he had a remarkable habit of turning up when it mattered. More of an Andy Moran than a Colm Cooper, but absolutely vital to Derry's best ever period of football.
By the way, I've watched Derry for 30 of those 40 years now. I'd grant you Paddy Bradley and Enda Muldoon no problem. Maybe Enda Gormley at a push. Not Skinner, for although he was a truly gifted player he didn't do what Brolly did for Derry. Nor has Mark Lynch. Barton was classy but not classy enough for this conversation. So I'm guessing Derry had a well of great forwards in the eighties?
Thanks for reply. I like sensible debate.
I would contend that brolly didn't turn it on when it mattered. A bit part player prior to the AI semi in 1993, by which time he was 24. One point in the semi final (out scored by Henry Downey) and one point in the final (out score by Johnny mcgurk). Anonymous in 94 (after ten minutes) and 95. Decent in 96 and 97 as Derry flopped, but padraig Joyce was spot on.
Paddy and Muldoon are clearly two of my ten, skinner and Mark lynch also. Any one of those four in 94 and 5 Sams would have a different username. I'd take Gormley ahead of brolly and Dermot Heaney ahead of both. The 80s had a young spoofer; as good as I've ever seen before he headed to st kilda. Sean o'connell was still playing in '77, so I can count him. Mark lynch wasn't as good as his father, so I'm up to nine now.
You could make arguments for Gerry Mcelhinney, Barton, Cassidy,Brendan Kelly; even Anthony tohill if Sean Cavanagh is being discussed on this thread.
Eunan O'Kane was the best of them all though.
All about opinions though, one for the bridge some night.
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 20, 2017, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 19, 2017, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 19, 2017, 09:38:02 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 18, 2017, 11:39:37 PM
It's been mentioned a few times on here that it's not possible to compare forwards from successful counties with those from mediocre counties.
I reckon it is, so long as you try to apply a sensible initial criteria - one which would have eff all to do with playing style, and everything to with outcome.
Pick a player and then over the course of his career, evaluate whether his county regularly exceeded (or at least achieved) expectations. If so, then you can logically observe that his ability MIGHT have had the positive influence that an all time great should have had. That's the objective bit. After that, it's subjective whether he was one of the primary causes for the positive performance of his county. But at least there's a baseline in place.
---
I love Benny Coulter dearly. He was a bright shining light in a time of darkness for Down; one of the few reasons to pay in to watch Down. But using my criteria he doesn't make it as the cold hard facts is that the team he played in underachieved apart from one season.
There'd be a similar story at play for Paddy Bradley and his little brother, for as wonderfully talented as they were, they never really dragged Derry to a higher pedestal.
Someone mentioned Vinny Murphy above. He's a cut below Colin Corkery. So talented, but didn't deliver the big different often enough. They don't deserve to be any higher than Donnacha O'Connor or Tony Boyle (fantastic players, but not quite at this level).
Funnily enough Joe Brolly would be a genuine contender for the list. His presence gave physically strong but workmanlike Derry sides the ability to trade blows with the most talented sides in Ireland. Is that not the marker of a great forward?
That's said, he's an absolute twat for his recent attack on Gooch. The one player who ensured Kerry had chance of being the "team of the Noughties" was him.
On a side note. How Stevie O'Neill is a constant in these discussions but Owen Mulligan is an absence, I'll never understand. Stevie should have been a better player. He was bigger, stronger, quicker, meaner, and could kick a bal twice as far. But Tyrone needed Mulligan too to play at the top table.
---
my 10:
Brogan Bernard
Canavan Peter
Cooper Colm
Doyle John
Flynn Paul
Joyce Padraig
McConville Oisin
McDonnell Steven
Moran Andy or Linden Mickey. Genuinely can't decide which county would have been less relevant without their appearance
Murphy Michael
I know there's a fair chance you're on the wind-up, but in my opinion Joe Brolly wouldn't make the top ten Derry forwards of the last forty years, let alone merit discussion as a possibility for the top ten overall.
Not so much of a wind up as trying to set a baseline.
There are absolutely majestic forwards at every level from junior b to senior county. Players who have that dash of class, spirit, power, whatever, that make them memorable.
Then there's the forwards, who in my opinion, genuinely win matches and are the difference between a team reaching its potential and not.
In terms of talent, Brolly is a step below most of the names mentioned in this thread. But in fairness to the argumentative little ****, he had a remarkable habit of turning up when it mattered. More of an Andy Moran than a Colm Cooper, but absolutely vital to Derry's best ever period of football.
By the way, I've watched Derry for 30 of those 40 years now. I'd grant you Paddy Bradley and Enda Muldoon no problem. Maybe Enda Gormley at a push. Not Skinner, for although he was a truly gifted player he didn't do what Brolly did for Derry. Nor has Mark Lynch. Barton was classy but not classy enough for this conversation. So I'm guessing Derry had a well of great forwards in the eighties?
Thanks for reply. I like sensible debate.
I would contend that brolly didn't turn it on when it mattered. A bit part player prior to the AI semi in 1993, by which time he was 24. One point in the semi final (out scored by Henry Downey) and one point in the final (out score by Johnny mcgurk). Anonymous in 94 (after ten minutes) and 95. Decent in 96 and 97 as Derry flopped, but padraig Joyce was spot on.
Paddy and Muldoon are clearly two of my ten, skinner and Mark lynch also. Any one of those four in 94 and 5 Sams would have a different username. I'd take Gormley ahead of brolly and Dermot Heaney ahead of both. The 80s had a young spoofer; as good as I've ever seen before he headed to st kilda. Sean o'connell was still playing in '77, so I can count him. Mark lynch wasn't as good as his father, so I'm up to nine now.
You could make arguments for Gerry Mcelhinney, Barton, Cassidy,Brendan Kelly; even Anthony tohill if Sean Cavanagh is being discussed on this thread.
Eunan O'Kane was the best of them all though.
All about opinions though, one for the bridge some night.
The Wobbler, Barton and Lynch were / are far better forwards than Brolly. Skinner as well.
Champion, Eunan from Dungiven? Superb minor but it's a stretch to say he was the best of them all as his undoubted potential sadly didn't come to fruition. Watching Lynch as a 16 / 17 year old playing senior club championship was a sight to behold
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2017, 09:41:53 PM
Who would derry's top 5 be stallion? Bradley and muldoon stand out but hard to pick standout ones aside from those two.Spoofer doesn't count in those 25 years ;-)
As a stallion, I feel obligated to answer. Perm two from the Bradleys, big enda, Mark lynch, Dermot Heaney and enda Gormley. By the way, Spoofer scored as much in the '93 final as brolly did; in half the time.
JOG, not a stretch imho. Ability and potential are two different things. Only footballer whose ability came close to Eunan's is Marty Clarke.
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 20, 2017, 10:27:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2017, 09:41:53 PM
Who would derry's top 5 be stallion? Bradley and muldoon stand out but hard to pick standout ones aside from those two.Spoofer doesn't count in those 25 years ;-)
As a stallion, I feel obligated to answer. Perm two from the Bradleys, big enda, Mark lynch, Dermot Heaney and enda Gormley. By the way, Spoofer scored as much in the '93 final as brolly did; in half the time.
JOG, not a stretch imho. Ability and potential are two different things. Only footballer whose ability came close to Eunan's is Marty Clarke.
How many senior games did okane play??
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2017, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 20, 2017, 10:27:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2017, 09:41:53 PM
Who would derry's top 5 be stallion? Bradley and muldoon stand out but hard to pick standout ones aside from those two.Spoofer doesn't count in those 25 years ;-)
As a stallion, I feel obligated to answer. Perm two from the Bradleys, big enda, Mark lynch, Dermot Heaney and enda Gormley. By the way, Spoofer scored as much in the '93 final as brolly did; in half the time.
JOG, not a stretch imho. Ability and potential are two different things. Only footballer whose ability came close to Eunan's is Marty Clarke.
How many senior games did okane play??
None, but he's not part of the answer to your question.
Although I'm not sure why I should reply to someone who has to ask who Johnny Corvan is.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2017, 09:41:53 PM
Who would derry's top 5 be stallion? Bradley and muldoon stand out but hard to pick standout ones aside from those two.Spoofer doesn't count in those 25 years ;-)
Top 5 forwards in Derry in last 25 years? Both Bradleys, Muldoon, Gilligan. Not sure on the 5th spot, there's a few contenders, but I wouldn't have Brolly among them.
Gilligan atcounty level? Great club player yes but county not so sure about.
Derry never got the best out of him but he's arguably been the best player in club football in Derry in the last 15-20 years.
Last day to add your lists before the thread is closed.
Btw only lists of 10 names will be used in the calculations.
Just listing Benny Coulter on his own won't count no matter how often mentioned by Down people as the greatest when we all know he couldn't tie Mickey Linden's laces.
Thanks for contributing, it's only a bit of craic while we await next weeks Brolly article in the Indo.
Brogan Bernard
Canavan Peter
Cooper Colm
Fitzgerald Maurice
Joyce Padraig
McDonald Ciaran
McDonnell Steven
Linden Mickey
Murphy Michael
O'Neill Stephen
Jes can you close her down now, how has the discussion about the greatest ever turned into a discussion hijacked by the inbreds.
I couldn't name 5 decent derry players fullstop!
I don't doubt that you are unable to do that. Fair play to you for admitting it.
Peter Canavan
Paddy Bradley
Michael Murphy
Maurice Fitzgerald
Colm Cooper
Larry Tompkins
Stevie O'Neill
Micky Linden
Frank McGuigan
Ciaran McDonald
Quote from: The Stallion on April 21, 2017, 11:10:17 AM
I don't doubt that you are unable to do that. Fair play to you for admitting it.
And fair play to you for admitting it too
I didn't. Apology accepted in advance.
Connor Matt
Fitzgerald Maurice
Canavan Peter
Egan John
Cooper Colm
Linden Mickey
Connolly Diarmuid
Giles Trevor
McGuigan Brian
O'Neill Stephen
I found this very hard to do. Top 5 I was fairly happy with, but from 8-10 especially was a nightmare. Stevie from Killeavy versus Stephen O'Neill was a brutal decision, as was Brian McGuigan versus Ciaran McDonald. Jimmy Keavney not being in there was hard to square away too. Sean Cavanagh I took the cowards way out, as I always think of him more as a driving midfielder than a pure forward.
Thought you wrote diving midfielder. Was gonna bust ya.
Quote from: The Stallion on April 21, 2017, 11:24:02 AM
I didn't. Apology accepted in advance.
In an effort to build bridges and because its Friday I do apologise. My top 5 would be Paddy Bradley, Enda Gormley, Downey, Muldoon and Big Jeffrey!
Peter Canavan
Micky Linden
Sean Cavanagh
Colm Cooper
Maurice Fitzgerald
Bernard Brogan
Oisin McConville
Stephen O'Neill
Trevor Giles
Michael Murphy
Quote from: ONeill on April 21, 2017, 11:40:41 AM
Thought you wrote diving midfielder. Was gonna bust ya.
+1
;D
Has Brian Dooher even been mentioned. The most effective no 10 in Ireland in the last 20 years. Incredible workrate and scored some of the best points seen in Croke Park. double all ireland captain to boot.
Lots of chatty light stuff going on there men but ye know fcuk all about football!
Brian Dooher was mentioned I thought? He'd not be in my list, but that's hardly a terrible state of affairs, there's been a lot of excellent forwards. I'd have him in my team every day and twice on Sundays. A rich man's Donnacha Walsh.
Maurice Fitzgerald
Mickey Linden
Peter Canavan
Colm Cooper
Bernard Flynn
Kieran McDonald
Matt Connor
Mikey Sheehy
Frank McGuigan
Bernard Brogan
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 21, 2017, 01:37:55 PM
Brian Dooher was mentioned I thought? He'd not be in my list, but that's hardly a terrible state of affairs, there's been a lot of excellent forwards. I'd have him in my team every day and twice on Sundays. A rich man's Donnacha Walsh.
Ok sorry should have read back then!
What I seen and heard and in no particular order and not just marquee forwards:
Matt Connor
Maurice Fitzgerald
Peter Canavan
Pat Spillane
Brian Dooher
Colm Cooper
Mikey Sheehy
Mickey Linden
Frank Mc Guigan
James Mc Cartan
Diarmuid Connolly
inseparable greats of the game.
This excludes possibly unfairly Declan Browne, Michael Murphy, Greg Blaney and Brian Mc Guigan, Paul Flynn, Larry Tompkins, Brian Stafford, Stevie O Neill and Brogan, Oisin Mc Conville, Stevie Mc Donnell, Paddy Bradley, Colin Corkery, Declan O Sullivan, Johnny Doyle, Nudie Hughes, Eugene Mc Kenna, Graeme Geraghty, Keiran Mc Donald, Conor Mc Manus, Adrian Cush, Eoin Mulligan, Frankie and Dessie Dolan, and Bill Sex for the name.
If you think about it many of the great talents were and are incomparable. They were not robots they learned their own skills and not to a system, we are very lucky in the GAA to have had dozens of Messis and Ronaldos, not just 2. The sad thing is maybe the development squads are systemising and leveliing off the skill sets.
Where some miss the point is that we are often protecting the system and not the talent. We are equalising the field. My county as guilty as any. There is flair out on those pitches but theres little room for non conformists. Go compare the excitement of club football to county football, there is none. Many of these guys were unpredictable enigmatic but their skills practiced on their doorstep, the battered garage doors and their chipped walls, and treeless gardens were their "development squad" and they went on to illuminate the football fields of Ireland in their many unorthodox ways. The flawed Genius, the incomplete careers, the nasty streak and the wasted opportunities amid moments of pure gold are inseperable from these men. Whilst the debates continue take the IPAD off the kids but put them into the back gardens and give them a wall for their 2 feet and fists and lets grow these games again as we want them.
That's also 11 players.
Quote from: rrhf on April 21, 2017, 01:27:28 PM
Has Brian Dooher even been mentioned. The most effective no 10 in Ireland in the last 20 years. Incredible workrate and scored some of the best points seen in Croke Park. double all ireland captain to boot.
Lots of chatty light stuff going on there men but ye know fcuk all about football!
Paul Flynn was / is a more effective #10.
Again, Dooher would rate behind Canavan, Stephen O'Neill and the two McGuigans. It is unlikely that one county would have produced five of the top ten forwards in Ireland and that four of them played in the same forward line.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 21, 2017, 02:50:06 PM
That's also 11 players.
Matt Connor I have only watched on Video, but in my part of the world it was said he was the greatest ever with wee Pete as no 2.
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 21, 2017, 02:53:32 PM
Quote from: rrhf on April 21, 2017, 01:27:28 PM
Has Brian Dooher even been mentioned. The most effective no 10 in Ireland in the last 20 years. Incredible workrate and scored some of the best points seen in Croke Park. double all ireland captain to boot.
Lots of chatty light stuff going on there men but ye know fcuk all about football!
Paul Flynn was / is a more effective #10.
Again, Dooher would rate behind Canavan, Stephen O'Neill and the two McGuigans. It is unlikely that one county would have produced five of the top ten forwards in Ireland and that four of them played in the same forward line.
Flynn is not better than dooher come on! I accept dooher not in the top 10 but wise up
Just watch the videos of the 3 all ireland finals, 3semi finals and many quarter finals Brian Dooher played in. He was without doubt the most consistent highest performing Tyrone player from 2003 - 2008.
Most of the Northern posters on here have at least 50% of the top 10 from their own province.
Interestingly I used to ask lots of people if they could chose only one from Dooher and ONeill, most people chose Dooher.
Plenty of posters have McDonald in their top 10 but not Joyce, from memory on here the majority of the Mayo posters on here would have Joyce as the better player.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 21, 2017, 03:53:03 PM
Plenty of posters have McDonald in their top 10 but not Joyce, from memory on here the majority of the Mayo posters on here would have Joyce as the better player.
Noticed that myself, county bias maybe but I wouldn't have McDonald anywhere near Joyce in terms of top forwards.
McDonald maybe seems to have become a better player in people's minds since he retired?
Mcdonald was a special talent, with a unique style which made him a joy to watch. He wasn't the heaviest scorer but some of his kick passes were just brilliant to see.
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on April 21, 2017, 04:06:34 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 21, 2017, 03:53:03 PM
Plenty of posters have McDonald in their top 10 but not Joyce, from memory on here the majority of the Mayo posters on here would have Joyce as the better player.
Noticed that myself, county bias maybe but I wouldn't have McDonald anywhere near Joyce in terms of top forwards.
McDonald maybe seems to have become a better player in people's minds since he retired?
Joyce a much better scorer, McDonald a much better footballer.
Maurice Fitzgerald
Frank McGuigan
Peter Canavan
Oisin McConville
Colm O Rourke
Colin Corkery
Michael Donnellan
Colm Cooper
Greg Blaney
Mike Sheehy
Quote from: Tubberman on April 21, 2017, 04:14:04 PM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on April 21, 2017, 04:06:34 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 21, 2017, 03:53:03 PM
Plenty of posters have McDonald in their top 10 but not Joyce, from memory on here the majority of the Mayo posters on here would have Joyce as the better player.
Noticed that myself, county bias maybe but I wouldn't have McDonald anywhere near Joyce in terms of top forwards.
McDonald maybe seems to have become a better player in people's minds since he retired?
Joyce a much better scorer, McDonald a much better footballer.
Donnellan > McDonald > Joyce
Cooper Colm
Donnellan Michael
Fitzgerald Maurice
Canavan Peter
McDonald Ciaran
Cavanagh Sean
Galvin Paul
McDonnell Steven
Brogan Bernard
Doyle Johnny
Quote from: Tubberman on April 21, 2017, 04:14:04 PM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on April 21, 2017, 04:06:34 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 21, 2017, 03:53:03 PM
Plenty of posters have McDonald in their top 10 but not Joyce, from memory on here the majority of the Mayo posters on here would have Joyce as the better player.
Noticed that myself, county bias maybe but I wouldn't have McDonald anywhere near Joyce in terms of top forwards.
McDonald maybe seems to have become a better player in people's minds since he retired?
Joyce a much better scorer, McDonald a much better footballer.
Wouldn't agree with that at all personally but again it's all opinion.
Not staying long enough at the top is why I wouldn't pick Donnellan ahead of Joyce but 4 years he was arguably the best player in the county but with injuries etc he disappeared from the top level all too soon.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 21, 2017, 04:49:49 PM
Not staying long enough at the top is why I wouldn't pick Donnellan ahead of Joyce but 4 years he was arguably the best player in the county but with injuries etc he disappeared from the top level all too soon.
The title is top forwards, not longest career forwards. I'd separate the two by saying one was a great player while the other had a great career. Being so brilliant you drove your team to two AIs and three finals is something I value higher than lasting for 15 years because the later takes a lot of luck as much as anything else and that's hardly a good criteria to judge a player's greatness on.
I see a lot of similarities between Joyce and Cillian O'Connor in Mayo. A bit limited physically but a very good free-taker and good under pressure. Difference is if O'Connor doesn't get the AIs Joyce did he'll never be within an ass's roar of these sorts of lists.
What did Joyce have that O'Connor doesn't? A midfield? Nope. A good defence? Nope. He had Michael Donnellan, a once in a generation talent, right there beside him up front.
I think a few players could fill Joyce's role on those AI-winning teams but maybe only Fitzgerald and Gooch could have filled Donnellan's role and even then I don't think either had his raw athleticism.
O'Connor is possibly the most overrated forward in the country in my opinion. I have seen nothing to suggest he is or will ever be a genuine top class inter-county forward. Andy Moran is twice the footballer albeit he doesn't have the legs for it these days.
If it was up to me it'd be
Joyce by a clear head, then
Donnellan by a length or two
Then McDonald.
Joyce was a pretty complete inside forward. On an off day he was dangerous, and when on form was basically unplayable.
Donnellan was an extraordinary athlete, right up there among the best in history. But he had a bit of tunnel vision going forward, always looking to kick it 70 yards.
McDonald is probably the most eye catching CHF I've ever seen, but the reality is that he was eye catching because 8 times out of 10 he was playing the wrong type of ball into full-forwards, I.e the spiralling 70 yarder off the outstep that looks wonderful but is a feckin nightmare for a full forward as it hangs in the air that long you'll have 2 defenders on you by the time it lands. Give me Brian McGuigan at 11 every day and any day.
Quote from: The Stallion on April 21, 2017, 05:01:44 PM
O'Connor is possibly the most overrated forward in the country in my opinion. I have seen nothing to suggest he is or will ever be a genuine top class inter-county forward. Andy Moran is twice the footballer albeit he doesn't have the legs for it these days.
Luckily he knows this, has no airs or graces. Works hard for the team. A decent place kicker and penalty taker. And takes no sh1t.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 21, 2017, 04:49:49 PM
Not staying long enough at the top is why I wouldn't pick Donnellan ahead of Joyce but 4 years he was arguably the best player in the county but with injuries etc he disappeared from the top level all too soon.
Donnellan was electrifying. He reminds me of the song "the whole of the moon".
Joyce was solid and had great vision. We were so lucky to have them at the same time.
They are still remembered in auctioneer signs all over Galway.
Quote from: Fuzzman on April 21, 2017, 03:49:23 PM
Interestingly I used to ask lots of people if they could chose only one from Dooher and ONeill, most people chose Dooher.
If you'd a pack of lazy hoors in the team you'd have Dooher. If you'd no one to kick the ball over the bar, you'd have O'Neill.
Lucky to have the two.
Gun to the head I'd have O'Neill. You'd train 3 players into the ground to do Dooher's job. You can't teach what O'Neill did.
Insane o Neill. I thought you knew better.
My apologies on omitting donellan and Joyce from the chasing pack. Tyrone would not have won an all Ireland in 05 without o Neill. they would not have won any of the 3 without dooher. Dooher had also a better final in 05 than o Neill on his best year. Oneill was ravaged by injury and was the best angled point taker I ever seen on a pitch. He was better than linden Mc Cartan Joyce et all. But dooher would have won any gatherup an all Ireland. He was madly driven and tyrone will never hAve another more focussed.
We're not talking about key players on a team. This is a thread for the top 10 forwards of the last 40 years. One of your players might never have won a thing, but, in your eyes, he gave you the most enjoyment. That's how I read it. I really wouldn't get too excited by it.