Derry Club Football & Hurling original

Started by Loup Bandit, May 08, 2007, 04:25:59 PM

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Total Members Voted: 19

marty34

Quote from: Red10 on March 05, 2023, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 05, 2023, 01:28:34 PM
It's a kick in the face to some of the other subs, Cassidy or McCarron should been brought on instead of Toner. It end up a situation like J Doherty not getting any game time last year and lads leave the panel, which is already bare thin already. We got no reliable right footed free taker, plus 45 or long range frees, we one of the few teams who keeper doesn't hit them.

Yeah for all the positives of that second half Gallagher isn't showing much faith in the squad he has. Toner works hard he had a poor enough game and hardly warranted coming back on.  It could come back to bite those sort of decisions. Jack Doherty is a loss from that squad.

True. I wonder why panel members would hang about after that. I'd walk and get back in action with the club.

Does no player pull him on it?

tbrick18

Quote from: marty34 on March 05, 2023, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: Red10 on March 05, 2023, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 05, 2023, 01:28:34 PM
It's a kick in the face to some of the other subs, Cassidy or McCarron should been brought on instead of Toner. It end up a situation like J Doherty not getting any game time last year and lads leave the panel, which is already bare thin already. We got no reliable right footed free taker, plus 45 or long range frees, we one of the few teams who keeper doesn't hit them.

Yeah for all the positives of that second half Gallagher isn't showing much faith in the squad he has. Toner works hard he had a poor enough game and hardly warranted coming back on.  It could come back to bite those sort of decisions. Jack Doherty is a loss from that squad.

True. I wonder why panel members would hang about after that. I'd walk and get back in action with the club.

Does no player pull him on it?

Personally, I don't think Gallagher would have anyone on the panel he doesn't feel happy with.
I'm going to guess Toner was a quick option to get on the field as he was already down on the sideline warming down and with wanting to run town the clock as quickly as possible he may just have been the first player in the line of site.
I could be wrong, but I can't think of another reason to not throw Ben McCarron on, for example.
Really it was the last 2 mins of the game.


In terms of the promotion hunt, if Derry lose their final two games and both Dublin and Cork win their final 2 games (though Louth could throw a spanner in the works there and they currently have the same points as Cork), then Dublin would finish on 12 points and Cork and Derry equal on 10. What happens in that scenario? Score difference?


Points against Clare will guarantee it, but that will be no easy game regardless of where Clare currently sit in the table.
Clare must get something out of the Derry game to have any chance of staying up so they will be up for this next game.
Limerick are gone, so really the other relegation spot is between Clare and Kildare.

marty34

Quote from: tbrick18 on March 08, 2023, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 05, 2023, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: Red10 on March 05, 2023, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 05, 2023, 01:28:34 PM
It's a kick in the face to some of the other subs, Cassidy or McCarron should been brought on instead of Toner. It end up a situation like J Doherty not getting any game time last year and lads leave the panel, which is already bare thin already. We got no reliable right footed free taker, plus 45 or long range frees, we one of the few teams who keeper doesn't hit them.

Yeah for all the positives of that second half Gallagher isn't showing much faith in the squad he has. Toner works hard he had a poor enough game and hardly warranted coming back on.  It could come back to bite those sort of decisions. Jack Doherty is a loss from that squad.

True. I wonder why panel members would hang about after that. I'd walk and get back in action with the club.

Does no player pull him on it?

Personally, I don't think Gallagher would have anyone on the panel he doesn't feel happy with.
I'm going to guess Toner was a quick option to get on the field as he was already down on the sideline warming down and with wanting to run town the clock as quickly as possible he may just have been the first player in the line of site.
I could be wrong, but I can't think of another reason to not throw Ben McCarron on, for example.
Really it was the last 2 mins of the game.


In terms of the promotion hunt, if Derry lose their final two games and both Dublin and Cork win their final 2 games (though Louth could throw a spanner in the works there and they currently have the same points as Cork), then Dublin would finish on 12 points and Cork and Derry equal on 10. What happens in that scenario? Score difference?


Points against Clare will guarantee it, but that will be no easy game regardless of where Clare currently sit in the table.
Clare must get something out of the Derry game to have any chance of staying up so they will be up for this next game.
Limerick are gone, so really the other relegation spot is between Clare and Kildare.

I wouldn't buy that. I think it's not great for panel and subs when you bring on a lad again. I don't see the benefit of it.

If a new lad comes on, at least he thinks he's getting a chance (even for 3 mins) and might go harder at the next session maybe.

oakleaflad

Quote from: tbrick18 on March 08, 2023, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 05, 2023, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: Red10 on March 05, 2023, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 05, 2023, 01:28:34 PM
It's a kick in the face to some of the other subs, Cassidy or McCarron should been brought on instead of Toner. It end up a situation like J Doherty not getting any game time last year and lads leave the panel, which is already bare thin already. We got no reliable right footed free taker, plus 45 or long range frees, we one of the few teams who keeper doesn't hit them.

Yeah for all the positives of that second half Gallagher isn't showing much faith in the squad he has. Toner works hard he had a poor enough game and hardly warranted coming back on.  It could come back to bite those sort of decisions. Jack Doherty is a loss from that squad.

True. I wonder why panel members would hang about after that. I'd walk and get back in action with the club.

Does no player pull him on it?

Personally, I don't think Gallagher would have anyone on the panel he doesn't feel happy with.
I'm going to guess Toner was a quick option to get on the field as he was already down on the sideline warming down and with wanting to run town the clock as quickly as possible he may just have been the first player in the line of site.
I could be wrong, but I can't think of another reason to not throw Ben McCarron on, for example.
Really it was the last 2 mins of the game.


In terms of the promotion hunt, if Derry lose their final two games and both Dublin and Cork win their final 2 games (though Louth could throw a spanner in the works there and they currently have the same points as Cork), then Dublin would finish on 12 points and Cork and Derry equal on 10. What happens in that scenario? Score difference?


Points against Clare will guarantee it, but that will be no easy game regardless of where Clare currently sit in the table.
Clare must get something out of the Derry game to have any chance of staying up so they will be up for this next game.
Limerick are gone, so really the other relegation spot is between Clare and Kildare.
It was in added time with the game in the balance. Toner was already warm, possibly unlike some of the subs. Also, the game was still up for grabs and McCarron has an awful habit of getting the ball and sprinting 15-20 yards backwards and laying off a hand pass in a Derry jersey. This wasn't what brought them back into and eventually won them the game. I wouldn't be questioning Gallagher too much, he knows what he's doing.
Talking of getting no game time - Is Kevin Johnson injured, noticed he hasn't even been named in subs in the last number of games but I think i've spotted him on the bench? Is Tohill still involved?

Mario

Quote from: tbrick18 on March 08, 2023, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 05, 2023, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: Red10 on March 05, 2023, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 05, 2023, 01:28:34 PM
It's a kick in the face to some of the other subs, Cassidy or McCarron should been brought on instead of Toner. It end up a situation like J Doherty not getting any game time last year and lads leave the panel, which is already bare thin already. We got no reliable right footed free taker, plus 45 or long range frees, we one of the few teams who keeper doesn't hit them.

Yeah for all the positives of that second half Gallagher isn't showing much faith in the squad he has. Toner works hard he had a poor enough game and hardly warranted coming back on.  It could come back to bite those sort of decisions. Jack Doherty is a loss from that squad.

True. I wonder why panel members would hang about after that. I'd walk and get back in action with the club.

Does no player pull him on it?

Personally, I don't think Gallagher would have anyone on the panel he doesn't feel happy with.
I'm going to guess Toner was a quick option to get on the field as he was already down on the sideline warming down and with wanting to run town the clock as quickly as possible he may just have been the first player in the line of site.
I could be wrong, but I can't think of another reason to not throw Ben McCarron on, for example.
Really it was the last 2 mins of the game.


In terms of the promotion hunt, if Derry lose their final two games and both Dublin and Cork win their final 2 games (though Louth could throw a spanner in the works there and they currently have the same points as Cork), then Dublin would finish on 12 points and Cork and Derry equal on 10. What happens in that scenario? Score difference?


Points against Clare will guarantee it, but that will be no easy game regardless of where Clare currently sit in the table.
Clare must get something out of the Derry game to have any chance of staying up so they will be up for this next game.
Limerick are gone, so really the other relegation spot is between Clare and Kildare.
In this situation Cork would go through on head to head, very important that Derry get a point v Clare. Don't want to be going to Cork needing a result

Keyser soze

Think it was Niall Loughlin who went off when Toner came back on, probably thought it best to have a freetaker on even if only for the last couple of minutes.

Though did something similar in Ulster final last year if i rem correctly, though maybe it was put a man on and take him off again rather than put same player back on?

tbrick18

Quote from: Mario on March 08, 2023, 01:42:35 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on March 08, 2023, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 05, 2023, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: Red10 on March 05, 2023, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 05, 2023, 01:28:34 PM
It's a kick in the face to some of the other subs, Cassidy or McCarron should been brought on instead of Toner. It end up a situation like J Doherty not getting any game time last year and lads leave the panel, which is already bare thin already. We got no reliable right footed free taker, plus 45 or long range frees, we one of the few teams who keeper doesn't hit them.

Yeah for all the positives of that second half Gallagher isn't showing much faith in the squad he has. Toner works hard he had a poor enough game and hardly warranted coming back on.  It could come back to bite those sort of decisions. Jack Doherty is a loss from that squad.

True. I wonder why panel members would hang about after that. I'd walk and get back in action with the club.

Does no player pull him on it?

Personally, I don't think Gallagher would have anyone on the panel he doesn't feel happy with.
I'm going to guess Toner was a quick option to get on the field as he was already down on the sideline warming down and with wanting to run town the clock as quickly as possible he may just have been the first player in the line of site.
I could be wrong, but I can't think of another reason to not throw Ben McCarron on, for example.
Really it was the last 2 mins of the game.


In terms of the promotion hunt, if Derry lose their final two games and both Dublin and Cork win their final 2 games (though Louth could throw a spanner in the works there and they currently have the same points as Cork), then Dublin would finish on 12 points and Cork and Derry equal on 10. What happens in that scenario? Score difference?


Points against Clare will guarantee it, but that will be no easy game regardless of where Clare currently sit in the table.
Clare must get something out of the Derry game to have any chance of staying up so they will be up for this next game.
Limerick are gone, so really the other relegation spot is between Clare and Kildare.
In this situation Cork would go through on head to head, very important that Derry get a point v Clare. Don't want to be going to Cork needing a result

That is interesting.
So Derry v Clare has the potential to be a humdinger of a game of real importance to both teams.

I've no idea what the thinking was of bringing Toner back on, I was only surmising. But I'd also agree that RG has shown so far he knows what he's at so I wouldn't start questioning his decision making. The other subs he made during the game had a serious impact so I'm sure what ever the reasoning was, RG thought it would help get us over the line.
Lets not go down the road of questioning every decision the most successful Derry manager of recent times makes. We need to hold onto this one :)

Estimator

Quote from: Keyser soze on March 08, 2023, 02:34:19 PM
Think it was Niall Loughlin who went off when Toner came back on, probably thought it best to have a freetaker on even if only for the last couple of minutes.

Though did something similar in Ulster final last year if i rem correctly, though maybe it was put a man on and take him off again rather than put same player back on?

Yeah, Toner and Heron were substituted towards the end of normal time in the Ulster Final for McCarron and Murray.
Both came back in extra time in a reversal of those substitutions. Toner for McCarron, Heron for Murray.
Ulster League Champions 2009

jmcgdoire

Quote from: Estimator on March 08, 2023, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 08, 2023, 02:34:19 PM
Think it was Niall Loughlin who went off when Toner came back on, probably thought it best to have a freetaker on even if only for the last couple of minutes.

Though did something similar in Ulster final last year if i rem correctly, though maybe it was put a man on and take him off again rather than put same player back on?

Yeah, Toner and Heron were substituted towards the end of normal time in the Ulster Final for McCarron and Murray.
Both came back in extra time in a reversal of those substitutions. Toner for McCarron, Heron for Murray.

You're right. I wouldnt worry to much about the subs. They have opportunities to prove themselves in training and it would be almost arrogant to question RGs judgement. To me the fact this is the second time he's reintroduced Toner to a game in the crucial moments is more a sign of confidence in Toner than a slight to the subs. And for good reason. Wasnt powerful on Saturday but he's been one of our main scoring threats this year and seems to do exactly whats asked of him (save for scoring a few frees  ;) )

marty34

Quote from: jmcgdoire on March 08, 2023, 06:51:15 PM
Quote from: Estimator on March 08, 2023, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 08, 2023, 02:34:19 PM
Think it was Niall Loughlin who went off when Toner came back on, probably thought it best to have a freetaker on even if only for the last couple of minutes.

Though did something similar in Ulster final last year if i rem correctly, though maybe it was put a man on and take him off again rather than put same player back on?

Yeah, Toner and Heron were substituted towards the end of normal time in the Ulster Final for McCarron and Murray.
Both came back in extra time in a reversal of those substitutions. Toner for McCarron, Heron for Murray.

You're right. I wouldnt worry to much about the subs. They have opportunities to prove themselves in training and it would be almost arrogant to question RGs judgement. To me the fact this is the second time he's reintroduced Toner to a game in the crucial moments is more a sign of confidence in Toner than a slight to the subs. And for good reason. Wasnt powerful on Saturday but he's been one of our main scoring threats this year and seems to do exactly whats asked of him (save for scoring a few frees  ;) )

That begs the question then, why did he take him off in the first place.

Silver hill

Anton Tohill was treated very poorly by Gallagher. Against Meath he chose to name a panel of 25 instead of the normal 26 even though Tohil was fully fit and available. I think that's a disgrace and no wonder he walked.
He's 6.5, superbly conditioned and athletic. Still very raw but never really got a proper chance at midfield instead, got a few cameos at full forward at the latter end of a few games.

Wildweasel74

Johnson gone, Tohill too I believe. You see a few others go before the year out and it bite Derry in the ass if we get 3!4 men injured with little cover after first 5 subs, wouldn't know about the rest, they don't get a chance. Rory Gallagher big problem too thin a panel) Not too much belief in talking about Derry getting a point at  home against a team they beat out of the field last summer and we'll beat them in the league last year too.

Wildweasel74

The chance to play Tohill was against Clare in croker 10pts up matching up against the huge Clare midfielder, for 10/15mins, if he couldn't fit it at that fair enough. I thought he could come on at Midfield or nowhere, never was remotely a forward, hasn't the positioni g sense for it  Anyway hope big Emmett fed up been married already and gets bck out there as we need him.

seanyb

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 09, 2023, 01:12:21 AM
Johnson gone, Tohill too I believe. You see a few others go before the year out and it bite Derry in the ass if we get 3!4 men injured with little cover after first 5 subs, wouldn't know about the rest, they don't get a chance. Rory Gallagher big problem too thin a panel) Not too much belief in talking about Derry getting a point at  home against a team they beat out of the field last summer and we'll beat them in the league last year too.

Johnston done the warm up before the Dublin game, has he left since? Noticed a few lads not named on the match day squad all warming up along the side line etc...Baker from Steelstown being another one

Cluborcountywhynotboth

Some of the messages on here this week are hard to believe. Why aren't players calling Gallagher out? Why was Tohill not given a chance? Jesus wept, if you don't know the answers to them then maybe Gaelic Football isn't the sport for you.