Things that make you go What the F**k?

[Rois]

I  just can't believe that the "injured" party in this, ie the woman who was groped, is being punished so harshly.  

Stew, you're making this all about you when the original reason for your complaint was a perceived slight on her.  You've just told someone to put themselves in your shoes - how about you try putting yourself in her shoes - she's obviously good friends with him as well, she must not have been overly offended at his actions and understandably probably thinks that it's up to her whether it goes any further or not.

If you worked for our firm, I reckon you'd have a problem if she decided to report you for workplace bullying.  Though I get that you're in the US and I don't understand how strict things are over there.  But you've completely personalised it.  And if I were her, I would refuse to move.  Maybe you've the power to fire her over this or send her to work elsewhere - I think it's poor form.

[Mentalman]

Skull this has nothing to do with me being tough or that nobody messes with me. I know these two very well, brought them into the organization knowing they would do a fine job and they  fcuked me even though both know I am right and what I said happened did in fact happened. They are calling me a liar collectively and that is grossly unfair.  I have helped these two a lot in my time and they have both been promoted under me because they did a great job. I am taking this personally because it is personal and I am not prepared to work with either of them anymore.

Skull I didnt understand that you dont get this, she is calling me a liar, he is done and she is moving on to a different department. Put yourself in my shoes, iamgine you were in this situation with two people you trusted and worked with............. now imagine this scenario happened to you, you would take it personally just like i did. I could have handled it if he had admitted he did it but instead he denied it, said it was on me to prove he did it and he called me a liar and she backed his play. I dont want either of them reporting to me and neither would you.

You are bang on Stew. Very unfortunate situation, like yourself I'd be sick over it, but the lad wrote his own death warrant when he didn't front up. She followed him over the cliff by backing him. Basically they were not to be trusted anymore. If you soft soaped it, apart from putting your own job in danger, you would lose all credibility with the rest of your team.

As an aside I wonder was there more going on between then than just what you seen? Seems unusual the girl would just go along with the fondling etc.

[Puckoon]

Rois, I see your point, and my first thought when Stew posted the conclusion was, "man that sounds a bit harsh on the girl". The reality is that he did something to protect her in the first instance, then furthermore to protect her in her job. Somewhere down the line he also had to accord to "man mind yourself" (the first commandment). So after re reading and thinking about all of this, I think that he gave both of them plenty of opportunity to take the right line. It appears that this is no longer about misconduct from the guy in question. Now the new issue is that they have both implicated stew as a liar, within his own workplace - not outside. For that reason the gloves need to come off, and both their positions as his subordinates are now untenable.

[ludermor]

As an aside I wonder was there more going on between then than just what you seen? Seems unusual the girl would just go along with the fondling etc.

Maybe there is something more going on, by the sounds of it the fella and the girl are mates ( or not bu they have worked together for years) so it would be a fair assumption to say it was out of character for him. If she see it like that and he has apologised to her ( do we know this?) then it is very harsh on the girl. I know HR is very difficult and can be impossible to find balance but i dont agree at all with the treatment of the girl. One thing im not clear about , and im not sure of its relevance , did you tell the girl that you would be calling the groper into the the office and potentially firing him?

[full back]

Is there a rule in the US that you cant have a relationship with someone in the same company?

[stew]

I  just can't believe that the "injured" party in this, ie the woman who was groped, is being punished so harshly.  

Stew, you're making this all about you when the original reason for your complaint was a perceived slight on her.  You've just told someone to put themselves in your shoes - how about you try putting yourself in her shoes - she's obviously good friends with him as well, she must not have been overly offended at his actions and understandably probably thinks that it's up to her whether it goes any further or not.

If you worked for our firm, I reckon you'd have a problem if she decided to report you for workplace bullying.  Though I get that you're in the US and I don't understand how strict things are over there.  But you've completely personalised it.  And if I were her, I would refuse to move.  Maybe you've the power to fire her over this or send her to work elsewhere - I think it's poor form.

I did personalise it Rois. if she refuses to move HR will terminate her not me, I cannot do that but based on the breach of trust we can no longer work together and so somebody has to move on or one persons gets to leave. You cannot have working environments were the associates are free to lie and were the leaders are branded liars when they are guilty so forgive me for perosnalizing it. I have helped these two out like you wouldnt believe in the past, i have never put a foot wrong with either of them and the conspired to me me out a liar, given the fact we were all friends prior to them working here and my history of supporting out I did take it personally and i have I suppose made it to some extent about me.

I also have an obligation to act, I have video evidence of the ocourance on my phone and I have a formal complaint by not one lady who was there but two and I am damn well sure that she and i never work together again, it is personal because they attacked my character and the staff know it and by doing so made my job a lot harder when in fact I  was blameless.

I am not now nor have I ever been a bully but i am pissed of to no end and I am disgusted by the young woman involved, i thought for sure she would do the right thing but she didnt and so she will move on and so will i. If I was a bully she would be gone right about now as I do get asked what i want to do and then have to give a reason why, if HR find that valid that is what they do. She made a mistake and will have to move out of my area in order to stay with the company, I think that is fair as I didnt want to see her or anyone gone for that matter but given her actions she had to move on.

I am 100% sure that nothing was going on between these . She thinks the world of both of us and made a decision that could have hurt me, she didnt realize that at the time but it is what it is. This young woman has never let anything like this happen before and i am sure nobody will ever do it to her again but I know nothing is going on between them.

Right. I am done with this whole thing on here. Skull. I am not a bully, i did personalize it to rois's point but for good reason, there is an awful lot of history between us and up until now all of it good. I am saddened by the turn of events but I will not be made out to be a liar in this case. That it not happening.

[Puckoon]

In many workplaces its not allowed. In some others its frowned upon. In nearly all workplaces that allow it, it must be declared to HR so as to determine if there is conflict of interest.

[heganboy]

I  just can't believe that the "injured" party in this, ie the woman who was groped, is being punished so harshly.

Rois, I see your point, but the fact of it is that she is not being punished for being the gropee but rather for lying in a HR case. That she is unwilling to follow it up says something indeed, but the fact that her colleagues were offended and were glad that the case was being examined is enough in the US for it to be a very big issue. Had stew turned a blind eye he would have been complicit in the event, and therefore had the girl's colleague taken any action with HR then stew would have had to go too. Had stew not taken action the company themselves could be seen as at fault in the case, and then liable for a potentially large punishment settlement in the courts, which the company could then have turned right back on to stew for not following company procedure...


Its a very very pc world over here, and in the area of sexual harassment in the workplace its crazy. you need to ring fence your position to the letter of the law or you can be in serious trouble.  I know of one guy who got into trouble from his HR team for emailing a female colleague with the word bitch used repeatedly in the email. They only eased up when it became clear he was talking up her getting a puppy at Christmas from his expectant dog...

[stew]

Is there a rule in the US that you cant have a relationship with someone in the same company?

If you rub the teats of somebody that reports directly to you in any setting you are automatically gone.

In our company you canot be dating someone from the office, if a relationship does start one person transfers out or leaves with no exceptions.

You cant mess with a subordinate in any sexual way, he wasnt derivig any fun out of the deal, he was drunk and stupid and she was blindsided and thinks the world of him so she tried to protect him and in the process could have hurt my standing, she never thought of that at the time but now she realizes and just apologized and asked me to reconsider. She has to move on now, HR have said so and that is the right thing to do. I love the kid, she is great but I am hurt by this whole thing and I wish her and the guy well.

[Mentalman]

Is there a rule in the US that you cant have a relationship with someone in the same company?

Stew's mentioned the company had rules about staff "fraternising" with "subordinates". Most large companies have similar rules, but have a relaxed attitude to them - until someone raises the question, for instance about promotions, then they have their harris covered.

[heganboy]

in most companies, people in a relationship can not work in the same area of responsibility. On lady just joined our company from another as they had hired her husband as the head of US sales from another role. Her sales would fall under his reporting structure so she either had to move to another post or resign.

when relationships form on the job, it can get complex (in more ways than one) but most big companies put rules in place to review them to make sure that it wont impact the company. If they are reported, in nearly every company I do business with their are very illicit and complicated affairs going on all over the place...

[stew]

I  just can't believe that the "injured" party in this, ie the woman who was groped, is being punished so harshly.  

She lied about getting groped by her boss and by doing so discredited me, she is not being punished harshly rois. Why is it ok to hut an innocent party? forget that it is me, why is that ok?

[Donagh]

Haven't read all the posts, but FFS! A girl and bloke out at night for a few drinks and a bit of craic and their manager from work approaches them and tells them to curtail their behaviour? Maybe you should set up CCTV cameras in your employees' bedrooms to make sure they aren't having sex with bicycles at night. Mind your own business you nosey fecker.

[stew]

Haven't read all the posts, but FFS! A girl and bloke out at night for a few drinks and a bit of craic and their manager from work approaches them and tells them to curtail their behaviour? Maybe you should set up CCTV cameras in your employees' bedrooms to make sure they aren't having sex with bicycles at night. Mind your own business you nosey fecker.

read the posts before spouting shite then Donagh. maybe it will make sense to you when you are educated on the feckin subject matter before running off at the bake.

[Mentalman]

Haven't read all the posts, but FFS! A girl and bloke out at night for a few drinks and a bit of craic and their manager from work approaches them and tells them to curtail their behaviour? Maybe you should set up CCTV cameras in your employees' bedrooms to make sure they aren't having sex with bicycles at night. Mind your own business you nosey fecker.

Well maybe you should read all the posts then before proffering an opinion? Whether they want to shag the living daylights out of one another while covered in marmalade is neither here nor there in the context of what happened.