Guys, I think we're all in agreement that Club Fixtures in Tyrone this year have been a complete mess and while we're all quick to claim that the fixtures committee are incompetent, we have to accept that it is a difficult enough task. Although surely couldn't be that difficult.....
So I was thinking, looking ahead to 2014, we could try and plan out how next years season should be fixtured
I've tried to find confirmed dates for competitions next year, and guessed the rest. Hopefully you can help me fill in the rest & point out my mistakes.
I'll stick the spreadsheet online somewhere so you guys can edit and help this little project along
So far, I've been thinking about
Competitions that affect the Tyrone Adult Club league Fixtures;
1. Ulster Club Championships
2. Senior Inter-County Competitions
3. Minor Inter-County Competitions
4. Club Hurling Competitions
5. Club U21 Competitions
6. Club Minor Competitions
Lets just look at 1,2 & 3 for now...
Is it Tyrone V Down Clubs next year following the Inter County Ulster Championship draws? Or is that not how it works?
Quote
2013
1st December - Ulster Final
17th November – Ulster Semi-Final
3rd November- Ulster Quarter Final
20th October – First Round
2014 – assumed/guessed dates
30th November - Ulster Final
16th November – Ulster Semi-Final
2ndNovember- Ulster Quarter Final
19th October – First Round
County Champions needed by 5th October 2014 = 2 weeks until Ulster Club first round
What if Final goes to a Replay?
• Play replay the following Sunday, leaving only 1 week rest?
• Or have finals 3 weeks before Ulster Club to accommodate – is this too long?
McKenna Cup - doesn't effect the club leagues but we'll stick it in
Quote
2013 – what happened
6th January– Group Game
9th January– Group Game
13th January– Group Game
16th January– Group Game
20th January– Semi-Final
26th January– Final
2014 – assumed
5th January– Group Game
8th January– Group Game
12th January– Group Game
15th January – Group Game
19th January –Semi Final
25th January – Final
National Football League Provisional Fixtures
Quote
1st Feb Derry V Tyrone
9th Feb Tyrone v Mayo
2nd March Kildare v Tyrone
9th March Kerry v Tyrone
16th March Tyrone v Westmeath
30th March Cork v Tyrone
6th April Tyrone v Dublin.
13th April Semi- Final –
27th April – Final
Why are there no NFL games fixtured for the last 2 weeks in Feb?? This makes it run well into April when club leagues should be started
Quote
2013
19th May - Preliminary Round
26th May - Quarter Final
2nd June - Quarter Final
9th June Quarter Final
16th June - Quarter Final (Preliminary Round Winners)
23rd June - Semi-Final
29th June – Semi-Final
21st July - Ulster Final
2014
Preliminary Round - Tyrone v Down
Quarter-finals(B)
Armagh v Cavan
Monaghan v Tyrone/Down
Winners to play in semi-final(B)
Quote
18th May - Preliminary Round (3 weeks after NFL Final)
25th May - Quarter Final
1st June - Quarter Final
8th June Quarter Final
15th June - Quarter Final (Preliminary Round Winners – 4 weeks after first game)
23rd June - Semi-Final (A)
29th June – Semi-Final (B)
20th July - Ulster Final
QuoteQualifiers
2013
29th June Round 1
13th July Round 2
20th July Round 3
27th July Round 4
2014
This is the complicated bit, I'll fill this in later :)
2013
QuoteAll-Ireland Series
2013
3rd August Quarter Finals
4th August Quarter Finals
25th August Semi-Final
1st September Semi-Final
22nd Sept Final
2014
Quote
2014
2nd August Quarter Finals
3rd August Quarter Finals
24th August Semi-Final
31st August Semi-Final
21st Sept Final
below shows the dates the Div 1 league has mainly been run since 2010. The orange dates show how many rounds had been played before the July holidays
(http://s17.postimg.org/5elrm5ynj/Tyrone_Leagues.gif) (http://postimage.org/)
image upload no compression (http://postimage.org/)
I'll add the other divisions later - Division 3 has 16 rounds rather than 15
County Fixtures to Ulster Final, assuming we get there
(http://s8.postimg.org/6qfkotzv9/Fixtures.gif) (http://postimage.org/)
good idea wee dons
im sure there are a few CCC lurkers on here ;)
if we can provide any useful input we may aswell instead of just complaining.
re: the county final - ulster club timescale, i think 2 weeks is enough,if there happens to be a draw, well so be it, its unfortunate for the winners, but i think most clubs would be happen enough with 2 weeks providing there are no draws.
Quote from: WeeDonns on October 25, 2013, 03:29:16 PM
McKenna Cup - doesn't effect the club leagues but we'll stick it in
Quote
2013 – what happened
6th January– Group Game
9th January– Group Game
13th January– Group Game
16th January– Group Game
20th January– Semi-Final
26th January– Final
2014 – assumed
5th January– Group Game
8th January– Group Game
12th January– Group Game
15th January – Group Game
19th January –Semi Final
25th January – Final
National Football League Provisional Fixtures
Quote
1st Feb Derry V Tyrone
9th Feb Tyrone v Mayo
2nd March Kildare v Tyrone
9th March Kerry v Tyrone
16th March Tyrone v Westmeath
30th March Cork v Tyrone
6th April Tyrone v Dublin.
13th April Semi- Final –
27th April – Final
Why are there no NFL games fixtured for the last 2 weeks in Feb?? This makes it run well into April when club leagues should be started
Is that for the Sigerson cup?
Should Easter be kept free or is that a good time to start the leagues?
After that I think we should look to have a couple of rounds of Friday & Sunday games on 03/05 May and 24/26 May.
Then it is a series of either / or scenarios dependant upon Tyrones progress. If they are put out go he'll for leather with fixtures every week until the qualifiers, if they stay in Ulster it is more double weekends 04/06 and 11/13 July. Either way we should be aiming to have about 8 league matches by mid July, more if we have a few rounds of starred fixtures in the weeks before Tyrone games.
Quote from: LeoMc on October 25, 2013, 11:39:50 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on October 25, 2013, 03:29:16 PM
National Football League Provisional Fixtures
Quote
1st Feb Derry V Tyrone
9th Feb Tyrone v Mayo
2nd March Kildare v Tyrone
9th March Kerry v Tyrone
16th March Tyrone v Westmeath
30th March Cork v Tyrone
6th April Tyrone v Dublin.
13th April Semi- Final –
27th April – Final
Why are there no NFL games fixtured for the last 2 weeks in Feb?? This makes it run well into April when club leagues should be started
Is that for the Sigerson cup?
That must be what it is.
QuoteShould Easter be kept free or is that a good time to start the leagues?
After that I think we should look to have a couple of rounds of Friday & Sunday games on 03/05 May and 24/26 May.
Personally I'd prefer Easter to remain a free weekend.
I'd be inclined to play the first two league games the two weekends before, even though Tyrone will definitely be playing the first Sunday, both if they make the semi-final.
Could anyone tell me what the agreement is on Starred games? Also whats the 13 day rule, is it just for Championship games?
Good idea this.
How many starred games were there this year?
5 starred games this year.
I think this is what had been agreed with the clubs.
One idea i heard thrown about was for the two May bank holidays, playing the games on the friday night.
This would leave the rest of the weekend guaranteed to be free.
If clubs/players new that these two weekends were free every year, it leaves it alot easier to plan things like club functions/fundraisers/stag dos without clashes with fixtures.
We'll start planning out all the possible scenarios
Scenario 1Win Ulster, go all the way to AIF
Scenario 2Knocked out in first round, go all the way to AIF
Scenario 3Knocked out in Ulster Qtr Final, go all the way to AIF
Scenario 4Knocked out in Ulster Semi- Final, go all the way to AIF
Scenario 5Knocked out in Ulster Final, go all the way to AIF
Many more involving the qualifiers..
I'll start with the easy ones.
In the links below, you can see how we could have 10 league games played by the July break, if;
- We play on the 2x bank holiday weekends - Friday nights I'm sure would be preferred?
- the first 3 rounds are starred games ( Round 1 definitely starred, 2& 3 only if Tyrone make league Semi & Final)
- Play on Fri/Sat if Tyrone have a league game on Sunday
- No games on Tyrone Championship weekends
- Easter weekend free
Quote
Scenario 1
Win Ulster, go all the way to AIF
• Scenario 1A = Quarter Final A + Semi Final A
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1A.xls (http://tinyurl.com/pgosppl)
• Scenario 1B = Quartet Final A + Semi Final B
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1B.xls (http://tinyurl.com/oxqf8z9)
• Scenario 1C = Quarter Final B + Semi Final A
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1C.xls (http://tinyurl.com/qh5evpe)
• Scenario 1D = Quarter Final B + Semi Final B
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1D.xls (http://tinyurl.com/pujza4q)
* You could argue that we should play a starred round of fixtures on the weekend of the Preliminary round as the game is in Omagh, so it's not like people would be making a weekend away for it in Dublin etc like later on in the Championship
The 12th is on a Saturday with the Bank Holiday on the Monday.
Would the "12th Fortnight" be from 5th/6th - 19th/20th July? or 12th/13th - 26th/27th?
(http://s10.postimg.org/fknlvibl5/12th_Holidays.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Also; Is there some sort of other holiday period for the North Tyrone clubs? I've heard of it but never really understood why it existed..
Quote from: WeeDonns on October 28, 2013, 09:31:52 AM
In the links below, you can see how we could have 10 league games played by the July break, if;
- We play on the 2x bank holiday weekends - Friday nights I'm sure would be preferred?
- the first 3 rounds are starred games ( Round 1 definitely starred, 2& 3 only if Tyrone make league Semi & Final)
- Play on Fri/Sat if Tyrone have a league game on Sunday
- No games on Tyrone Championship weekends
- Easter weekend free
Quote
Scenario 1
Win Ulster, go all the way to AIF
• Scenario 1A = Quarter Final A + Semi Final A
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1A.xls (http://tinyurl.com/pgosppl)
• Scenario 1B = Quartet Final A + Semi Final B
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1B.xls (http://tinyurl.com/oxqf8z9)
• Scenario 1C = Quarter Final B + Semi Final A
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1C.xls (http://tinyurl.com/qh5evpe)
• Scenario 1D = Quarter Final B + Semi Final B
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1D.xls (http://tinyurl.com/pujza4q)
* You could argue that we should play a starred round of fixtures on the weekend of the Preliminary round as the game is in Omagh, so it's not like people would be making a weekend away for it in Dublin etc like later on in the Championship
Looking at Friday night games, I'm not sure if that would be possible on the first May bank holiday as it may be too dark. Games are normally played at 6:15 and 7:30. Sunset is at 8:58PM so it would be getting dark towards the end of the Senior game.
The earliest Friday night game i can see in recent years has been 17th May with sunset at 9:22PM. The second May bank holiday shouldn't be a problem.
As this is a Friday night round, with many people coming straight from work, could you fixture this as a 'local round' where distances between clubs needs to be under 30mins??
With that in mind, do you think clubs would play a reserve game on a Thursday and the Senior game on Friday?
Quote from: WeeDonns on October 28, 2013, 11:40:31 AM
Quote from: WeeDonns on October 28, 2013, 09:31:52 AM
In the links below, you can see how we could have 10 league games played by the July break, if;
- We play on the 2x bank holiday weekends - Friday nights I'm sure would be preferred?
- the first 3 rounds are starred games ( Round 1 definitely starred, 2& 3 only if Tyrone make league Semi & Final)
- Play on Fri/Sat if Tyrone have a league game on Sunday
- No games on Tyrone Championship weekends
- Easter weekend free
Quote
Scenario 1
Win Ulster, go all the way to AIF
• Scenario 1A = Quarter Final A + Semi Final A
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1A.xls (http://tinyurl.com/pgosppl)
• Scenario 1B = Quartet Final A + Semi Final B
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1B.xls (http://tinyurl.com/oxqf8z9)
• Scenario 1C = Quarter Final B + Semi Final A
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1C.xls (http://tinyurl.com/qh5evpe)
• Scenario 1D = Quarter Final B + Semi Final B
Fixtures_2014_Scenario_1D.xls (http://tinyurl.com/pujza4q)
* You could argue that we should play a starred round of fixtures on the weekend of the Preliminary round as the game is in Omagh, so it's not like people would be making a weekend away for it in Dublin etc like later on in the Championship
Looking at Friday night games, I'm not sure if that would be possible on the first May bank holiday as it may be too dark. Games are normally played at 6:15 and 7:30. Sunset is at 8:58PM so it would be getting dark towards the end of the Senior game.
The earliest Friday night game i can see in recent years has been 17th May with sunset at 9:22PM. The second May bank holiday shouldn't be a problem.
As this is a Friday night round, with many people coming straight from work, could you fixture this as a 'local round' where distances between clubs needs to be under 30mins??
With that in mind, do you think clubs would play a reserve game on a Thursday and the Senior game on Friday?
Good call, I had been thinking reserve game on Saturdays to allow the Friday night matches to start earlier in the year but it puts pressure on panels to be able to field Saturday & Sunday.
I would (back in the day) have been OK with Thursday night training. For Senior clubs with big picks it would be an opportunity for the management to have a more focused senior training whilst most reserves were engaged elsewhere.
Re the holiday period,
I think moving it till the august fornight may be the way to go.This would correspond with allireland qtr/semi finals if tyrone were to get that far, a period were there are likely to be no club games anyway.
I would say for most club players, when the holiday period is, doesnt matter so much, as long as there is prior notice that its coming up.
I would say as many compnies now take the august fortnight off as the july one anyway.
Lots of great stuff there Fionntamhnach.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 28, 2013, 01:25:48 PM* What appears to be the ideal time for the first round of club championship games is around the end of July and start of August, depending on Tyrone's involvement in the All-Ireland series. This doesn't leave the 1st round being played too early while allowing some breathing room later in the year if needed.
I think most clubs would like a competitive league fixture inbetween the July break and their first Championship game, but if the July break is 7th-20th July inclusive, then we play a round of league fixtures the weekend of 26th/27th July and the following Saturday and Sunday (2nd & 3rd August) its the All-Ireland Quarter Finals.
So, have a round of league fixtures on 20th July, leaving the following weekend for the Championship first round? It eats into the July Holidays, but realistically managers would be organising challenge games that weekend anyway if the Championship was the following weekend
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 28, 2013, 01:25:48 PM
* The return of a double round of fixtures over a weekend should be considered in my opinion and arguably the two May Bank Holidays give the best opportunity for this to happen. Because of player commitment that is built up over this, it should happen no more than twice in the season. The double round weekends got a bad rep a few years ago in the 4 division set up when two of them were set on consecutive weekends meaning players played four games in nine days. To keep things in perspective, two Friday night fixtures should (a) as far as possible be between two teams within a 40-45 minute drive from each other, though it'll be difficult to meet this for all clubs, and (b) consideration should be given to the reserve tie of that fixture being played on the night before to allow all players enough time for travelling for each game and to allow for sunlight. Clubs which can play home games under floodlights should potentially be given attention to having home advantage on these rounds of games.
A double round of fixtures would help, but I'd be reluctant to do this for BOTH the May bank holidays. Simply because i enjoy my bank holiday weekends and think it would be unfair to use up both of them for football.
I'd definitely be keen on the Reserve game being played the night before, as if its 'put off until another date' it rarely gets played
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 28, 2013, 01:25:48 PM* If Tyrone are fortunate enough to reach the All-Ireland Semi-Final this year again, it should be the case that if an All-County League round of fixtures can't be played, the reserve league should continue on to its conclusion on Friday or Saturday evenings when that is the case from Friday 22nd August onwards with the first round of reserve championship games taking place on the 15th-17th August after the Senior/Intermediate/Junior Football Championship first round games played. Any Reserve championship game around this time from the quarter finals onwards should be fitted around fixtures where by there is at a minimum a two day gap from any league game. The senior part of the respective round of fixtures can be played later on, meaning (a) reserve players can get their season wrapped up quicker without being affected by county teams, (b) less likelyhood of walkovers being conceded in the reserve league, and (c) for the corresponding senior fixtures that may take place in October or November, the lack of a prior reserve game means the playing field should be in a better condition especially in poor weather.
Totally agree. Lets get this passed at the county convention...
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on October 28, 2013, 02:43:58 PM
Re the holiday period,
I think moving it till the august fornight may be the way to go.This would correspond with All-Ireland qtr/semi finals if Tyrone were to get that far, a period were there are likely to be no club games anyway.
I would say for most club players, when the holiday period is, doesn't matter so much, as long as there is prior notice that its coming up.
I would say as many companies now take the august fortnight off as the July one anyway.
That would certainly make it easier and I know would suit a lot of players if they just knew for certain when they could book holidays and not have them clash, but I do know of some club players that can only take their holidays on those two weeks so it wouldn't be great for them.
I can't see it changing
Quote from: WeeDonns on October 28, 2013, 02:54:53 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on October 28, 2013, 02:43:58 PM
Re the holiday period,
I think moving it till the august fornight may be the way to go.This would correspond with All-Ireland qtr/semi finals if Tyrone were to get that far, a period were there are likely to be no club games anyway.
I would say for most club players, when the holiday period is, doesn't matter so much, as long as there is prior notice that its coming up.
I would say as many companies now take the august fortnight off as the July one anyway.
That would certainly make it easier and I know would suit a lot of players if they just knew for certain when they could book holidays and not have them clash, but I do know of some club players that can only take their holidays on those two weeks so it wouldn't be great for them.
I can't see it changing
yeah im sure there are people who cant take their holidays in august, but likewise there would be some that cant take them in july either.
You cant suit everyone.
The point is, alot of years there ends up being no football that august fornight anyway due to tyrone involvement,if it was the holiday period then, taht wouldnt matter so much.
Agree with BUOS here. I personally play the game but can't take my holidays in July fortnight. We close the August one. Swings and roundabouts.
There needs to be more flexibility on the rounds as well. There were times this year where rounds could of been swapped around to suit better but didn't happen.
Take a look at last weekend- a lot of reserve fixtures didn't go ahead. Hard to keep reserve players particularly at it with the long delays etc
QuoteThere needs to be more flexibility on the rounds as well. There were times this year where rounds could of been swapped around to suit better but didn't happen.
this is one of the things that could have saved alot of problems this year.
Rigidly sticking to the 'rounds' of games leaves a inflexible system an dends up taking more time overall.
Only the last 3 rounds or so should be in strict rounds like that
I think now we're seeing how difficult this can be...
If we persevere with this I think we can come up with a decent blueprint
I'll apply Fionntamhnach's suggestions to the Calendars and upload later
Good work WeeDons- honestly think we need a someone like yourself in the County Board in charge of fixtures
Quote from: giveherlong on October 29, 2013, 07:29:09 PM
Good work WeeDons- honestly think we need a someone like yourself in the County Board in charge of fixtures
I'll second that, great effort and showing bit of initiative and forward thinking.
What I don't think has been considered is if we have similar situation this year with seniors in back door and minors winning Ulster. I am a strong believer that no adult game should be postponed due to minor football.
Quote from: stringbean on October 29, 2013, 09:08:24 PM
Quote from: giveherlong on October 29, 2013, 07:29:09 PM
Good work WeeDons- honestly think we need a someone like yourself in the County Board in charge of fixtures
I'll second that, great effort and showing bit of initiative and forward thinking.
What I don't think has been considered is if we have similar situation this year with seniors in back door and minors winning Ulster. I am a strong believer that no adult game should be postponed due to minor football.
i would agree with that.
something has to give somewhere along the line, and clubs have to make some concessions in order for the fixtures to keep going.
Quote
What I don't think has been considered is if we have similar situation this year with seniors in back door and minors winning Ulster. I am a strong believer that no adult game should be postponed due to minor football.
Don't worry, we'll accommodate for this too.
First of all we'll draw up calendars for all the Tyrone Senior possibilities, then Senior + Minor, then Senior + Minor + Club Championships, then the whole lot.
It'll take alot of rewriting but we'll get there so that there's a decent set of blueprints to follow
Please feel free to contribute, there's a template at the below link that has McKenna Cup, NFL, Ulster Championship, Qualifiers, All-Ireland Series and potential Club Championships & Ulster Club Championships penciled in...
http://tinyurl.com/puy3ysc (http://tinyurl.com/puy3ysc)
*Junior Championship Preliminary round needs added
- I don't think minor games should affect senior league games either. Maybe Championship games though?
I think every club should have the opportunity to field their strongest side on championship day, so that should be taken into account, but certainly for the league, games need to continue on regardless of county minor football. If that means the lads are unable to play for their clubs, then so be it.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on October 30, 2013, 09:31:31 AM
I think every club should have the opportunity to field their strongest side on championship day, so that should be taken into account, but certainly for the league, games need to continue on regardless of county minor football. If that means the lads are unable to play for their clubs, then so be it.
Yeah, I would think so. Our Club are rarely in this situation so would be keen to hear the opinions of others.
My thinking would be these lads are involved in; County Minors, Club Minors, Club U21s, Schools football, Senior Club Championship & whatever Senior league games they're available for when there are no conflicts.
With player burnout in mind, and the hope that they'll have 15+ years adult club league football ahead of them, I wouldn't be expecting them to complete a full season of adult league football alongside the rest of their commitments.
A smaller club with 1 star minor player might disagree...
Starting to draw up scenarios. So far i have the below list. this doesn't include for replays or the County Minors taking a different path than the Seniors. It also doesn't consider not making the Quarter Finals
I'll add links to appropriate calendars later and we can discuss the best way to fixture games for each scenario
*By 'All-Ireland Series' I mean Quarter Finals onwards
Scenario 1
Win Ulster, enter All-Ireland Series
• Scenario 1.1 = Quarter Final A + Semi Final A +Final
• Scenario 1.2 = Quartet Final A + Semi Final B +Final
• Scenario 1.3 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final A +Final
• Scenario 1.4 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final B +Final
• Scenario 1.5 = Quarter Final A + Semi Final A
• Scenario 1.6 = Quartet Final A + Semi Final B
• Scenario 1.7 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final A
• Scenario 1.8 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final B
• Scenario 1.9 = Quarter Final A
• Scenario 1.10 = Quartet Final B
Scenario 2
Knocked out in first round, enter All-Ireland Series
• Scenario 2.1 = Quarter Final A + Semi Final A +Final
• Scenario 2.2 = Quartet Final A + Semi Final B +Final
• Scenario 2.3 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final A +Final
• Scenario 2.4 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final B +Final
• Scenario 2.5 = Quarter Final A + Semi Final A
• Scenario 2.6 = Quartet Final A + Semi Final B
• Scenario 2.7 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final A
• Scenario 2.8 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final B
• Scenario 2.9 = Quarter Final A
• Scenario 2.10 = Quartet Final B
Scenario 3
Knocked out in Ulster Qtr Final, enter All-Ireland Series
• Scenario 3.1 = Quarter Final A + Semi Final A +Final
• Scenario 3.2 = Quartet Final A + Semi Final B +Final
• Scenario 3.3 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final A +Final
• Scenario 3.4 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final B +Final
• Scenario 3.5 = Quarter Final A + Semi Final A
• Scenario 3.6 = Quartet Final A + Semi Final B
• Scenario 3.7 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final A
• Scenario 3.8 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final B
• Scenario 3.9 = Quarter Final A
• Scenario 3.10 = Quartet Final B
Scenario 4
Knocked out in Ulster Semi- Final, enter All-Ireland Series
• Scenario 4.1 = Quarter Final A + Semi Final A +Final
• Scenario 4.2 = Quartet Final A + Semi Final B +Final
• Scenario 4.3 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final A +Final
• Scenario 4.4 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final B +Final
• Scenario 4.5 = Quarter Final A + Semi Final A
• Scenario 4.6 = Quartet Final A + Semi Final B
• Scenario 4.7 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final A
• Scenario 4.8 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final B
• Scenario 4.9 = Quarter Final A
• Scenario 4.10 = Quartet Final B
Scenario 5
Knocked out in Ulster Final, enter All-Ireland Series
• Scenario 5.1 = Quarter Final A + Semi Final A +Final
• Scenario 5.2 = Quartet Final A + Semi Final B +Final
• Scenario 5.3 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final A +Final
• Scenario 5.4 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final B +Final
• Scenario 5.5 = Quarter Final A + Semi Final A
• Scenario 5.6 = Quartet Final A + Semi Final B
• Scenario 5.7 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final A
• Scenario 5.8 = Quarter Final B + Semi Final B
• Scenario 5.9 = Quarter Final A
• Scenario 5.10 = Quartet Final B
Have I made a mistake here? If Tyrone are knocked out in the Ulster Preliminary round or the Quarter Final, do we still just enter Round 1 of the Qualifiers?
If so, scenarios 2 & 3 are much the same - 2 would give us an extra weekend for club fixtures
Quote from: WeeDonns on October 30, 2013, 10:37:37 AM
Have I made a mistake here? If Tyrone are knocked out in the Ulster Preliminary round or the Quarter Final, do we still just enter Round 1 of the Qualifiers?
If so, scenarios 2 & 3 are much the same - 2 would give us an extra weekend for club fixtures
Yes, preliminary & first round exits put you into the same round of the qualifiers.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 30, 2013, 08:46:16 PM
On the issue of county minor players and the ACL, this is already covered in the Official Guide, Part 1...
Quote6.36
Leagues may be organised on a single or double round basis. The Regulations outlined in Rule 6.20 in relation to a League Part of a Championship shall apply to League Competitions. where a double round League is played, the combined scores of the two games shall be taken into account when applying clause 5(c)(i) of that Rule.
League Games at Adult Club Level within a County may not be postponed because of the involvement of players in Inter-County minor Games.
Yes but they are.
It's not so much that the Tyrone CB call off games, it's the management of U21 and especially minor teams telling cubs that they shouldn't play for the Club on certain weekends. Young lads find themselves under pressure to choose between Club and County, and with the carrot of Croke Park this is usually a difficult choice.
We lost two games this season by one point/ two points where we fielded without our County minor. Games we would've won I'd confidently say if he had of played. Both games he was told not to play for the Club, as were all the Tyrone minor squad. However a lot of players ignored this request.
County managers should not be influencing players to make these choices.
Quote from: WeeDonns on October 30, 2013, 09:28:38 AM
Quote
What I don't think has been considered is if we have similar situation this year with seniors in back door and minors winning Ulster. I am a strong believer that no adult game should be postponed due to minor football.
Don't worry, we'll accommodate for this too.
First of all we'll draw up calendars for all the Tyrone Senior possibilities, then Senior + Minor, then Senior + Minor + Club Championships, then the whole lot.
It'll take alot of rewriting but we'll get there so that there's a decent set of blueprints to follow
Please feel free to contribute, there's a template at the below link that has McKenna Cup, NFL, Ulster Championship, Qualifiers, All-Ireland Series and potential Club Championships & Ulster Club Championships penciled in...
http://tinyurl.com/puy3ysc (http://tinyurl.com/puy3ysc)
*Junior Championship Preliminary round needs added
- I don't think minor games should affect senior league games either. Maybe Championship games though?
Only glancing through the thread, but is there a first round of the Championship across all divisions missing there?
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on October 31, 2013, 12:40:59 AM
It's not so much that the Tyrone CB call off games, it's the management of U21 and especially minor teams telling cubs that they shouldn't play for the Club on certain weekends. Young lads find themselves under pressure to choose between Club and County, and with the carrot of Croke Park this is usually a difficult choice.
We lost two games this season by one point/ two points where we fielded without our County minor. Games we would've won I'd confidently say if he had of played. Both games he was told not to play for the Club, as were all the Tyrone minor squad. However a lot of players ignored this request.
County managers should not be influencing players to make these choices.
To be honest I think the county managements would need to look at themselves in this respect. The county board needs to set the perimeters on behalf of the club. The first criteria within gaa should be to play with your club before representative honours. Club men and volunteers are funding garvaghy and the efforts to further Tyrone. The Tyrone county board has a return duty to protect the clubs interests and monitor this no matter who is appointed. We hear of clubs who do not want Tyrone representation because it weakens them and they lose their stars. This needs to be managed better not ignored because there are very real gaps opening up between club and county.
Half of all club players in Tyrone play reserve football.
There is no reason why there can't be a reserve match every weekend from the start of April until the end of August (with a few rounds of championship and a July break as well).
This would be a fix for 50% of players (there is not going to be any county men playing reserve football).
Reserve football would be complete for most by end of August (semis and finals would probably still be outstanding).
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on December 11, 2013, 04:21:26 PM
Half of all club players in Tyrone play reserve football.
There is no reason why there can't be a reserve match every weekend from the start of April until the end of August (with a few rounds of championship and a July break as well).
This would be a fix for 50% of players (there is not going to be any county men playing reserve football).
Reserve football would be complete for most by end of August (semis and finals would probably still be outstanding).
Action needs to be taken on Reserve fixtures. It would be quite a lot more than 50%of Club players I would guess and there is no reason for them to be without football all summer because of inter county fixtures.
Fionntamhnach made a good suggestion a few pages back (see below) and I think its the way to go.
This will leave Reserve football wrapped up much earlier, giving players regular weekly games and make walkovers much more unlikely.
It'll also keep the club active at adult level - the last couple of years has seen 7-8 weeks of no competitive adult football
Quote* If Tyrone are fortunate enough to reach the All-Ireland Semi-Final this year again, it should be the case that if an All-County League round of fixtures can't be played, the reserve league should continue on to its conclusion on Friday or Saturday evenings when that is the case from Friday 22nd August onwards with the first round of reserve championship games taking place on the 15th-17th August after the Senior/Intermediate/Junior Football Championship first round games played. Any Reserve championship game around this time from the quarter finals onwards should be fitted around fixtures where by there is at a minimum a two day gap from any league game. The senior part of the respective round of fixtures can be played later on, meaning (a) reserve players can get their season wrapped up quicker without being affected by county teams, (b) less likelyhood of walkovers being conceded in the reserve league, and (c) for the corresponding senior fixtures that may take place in October or November, the lack of a prior reserve game means the playing field should be in a better condition especially in poor weather.
At last, some info coming out on fixtures
Good to see they've created a number of 'what if' scenarios, hopefully this will continue
http://ulsterherald.com/2014/02/13/tyrone-teams-progress-to-determine-domestic-schedule/
(http://ulsterherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Fixtures-460x220.jpg)
QuoteA much-discussed early round of the Tyrone club football championships will only take place should Tyrone fail to reach the Allianz Football League Division One final, and the county's u21's do not reach the All-Ireland championship final.
The draws for the Senior, Intermediate and Junior first round clashes took place at Garvaghey on Tuesday night, to allow clubs time to prepare for the possibility of the opening round of knock-out games taking place before the end of May.
Based on the findings of the extensive investigations and discussions undertaken since the end of the 2013 campaign, the county's Competitions Control Committee (CCC) have devised a number of possible schedules for early season domestic action, depending on the progress of the county senior and u21 sides.
Although this schedule does shed some light on possible start dates for clubs, an actual start date for the league, as well as a definite date for the first round of the club championships, remains very much up in the air.
Should Tyrone repeat the feat of last season and reach the Division One decider, a distinct possibility given their positive start to the 2014 campaign, and the u21's fail to reach their national decider, then the All-County League will begin on Friday May 2 with another round of games following hot on their heels on Sunday May 4. If the u21's are in the All-Ireland final though, the first adult club action would be a starred round of games on Sunday May 11.
Fixtures
The earliest which senior club players in the Red Hand county could be in action is Sunday April 13, but that is on the proviso that Tyrone do not reach the National League final.
Five is very much the magic number, with the clubs given the assurance that they will not be thrust into first round action with any less than five rounds of league fixtures having been played. Therefore, the only way that the club championships will take place on the last weekend of May is if Mickey Harte's senior team fail to reach the National League decider, and Fergal Logan's u21 outfit do not make it through to the All-Ireland u21 final, with the All-Ireland semi-finals set for April 19 (Easter Saturday) and the final fixed for May 2. In that instance, clubs would have played five rounds of the ACL, as well as a starred round, by the time the club championships would get underway over the weekends of May 25 and June 1.
It all means that means that in three of the four options put forward relating to club fixtures in April and May, the club championship programme would not commence until the first weekend in September. Even if the Red Hand seniors made what the CCC refer to as an 'early exit' and failed to make the All-Ireland quarter-finals, the domestic knock-out competition would still not begin until the weekend of September 7.
The fixtures plan shows that the reserve championships will get underway on the weekend of June 27, the finals fixed for August 22, while the club u21 championship will begin on Tuesday June 17, with the semi-finals down for decision on August 12. It also shows that clubs will be expected to play a maximum of four games over the months of June through to October without their county players, with a total of two starred games altogether should Tyrone fail to make the All-Ireland quarter-final.
Regardless of Tyrone's progress, the county senior championship final is fixed for October 19, allowing the Tyrone winners two weeks to prepare for the opening round of the Ulster Club series.
- See more at: http://ulsterherald.com/2014/02/13/tyrone-teams-progress-to-determine-domestic-schedule/#sthash.jGwGaAse.dpuf
A bit of forward planning at least.
This may not be perfect, but its what players have been crying out for, a bit of notice of what the plans are.
Quote from: WeeDonns on February 13, 2014, 09:11:06 AM
At last, some info coming out on fixtures
Good to see they've created a number of 'what if' scenarios, hopefully this will continue
http://ulsterherald.com/2014/02/13/tyrone-teams-progress-to-determine-domestic-schedule/
(http://ulsterherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Fixtures-460x220.jpg)
QuoteA much-discussed early round of the Tyrone club football championships will only take place should Tyrone fail to reach the Allianz Football League Division One final, and the county's u21's do not reach the All-Ireland championship final.
The draws for the Senior, Intermediate and Junior first round clashes took place at Garvaghey on Tuesday night, to allow clubs time to prepare for the possibility of the opening round of knock-out games taking place before the end of May.
Based on the findings of the extensive investigations and discussions undertaken since the end of the 2013 campaign, the county's Competitions Control Committee (CCC) have devised a number of possible schedules for early season domestic action, depending on the progress of the county senior and u21 sides.
Although this schedule does shed some light on possible start dates for clubs, an actual start date for the league, as well as a definite date for the first round of the club championships, remains very much up in the air.
Should Tyrone repeat the feat of last season and reach the Division One decider, a distinct possibility given their positive start to the 2014 campaign, and the u21's fail to reach their national decider, then the All-County League will begin on Friday May 2 with another round of games following hot on their heels on Sunday May 4. If the u21's are in the All-Ireland final though, the first adult club action would be a starred round of games on Sunday May 11.
Fixtures
The earliest which senior club players in the Red Hand county could be in action is Sunday April 13, but that is on the proviso that Tyrone do not reach the National League final.
Five is very much the magic number, with the clubs given the assurance that they will not be thrust into first round action with any less than five rounds of league fixtures having been played. Therefore, the only way that the club championships will take place on the last weekend of May is if Mickey Harte's senior team fail to reach the National League decider, and Fergal Logan's u21 outfit do not make it through to the All-Ireland u21 final, with the All-Ireland semi-finals set for April 19 (Easter Saturday) and the final fixed for May 2. In that instance, clubs would have played five rounds of the ACL, as well as a starred round, by the time the club championships would get underway over the weekends of May 25 and June 1.
It all means that means that in three of the four options put forward relating to club fixtures in April and May, the club championship programme would not commence until the first weekend in September. Even if the Red Hand seniors made what the CCC refer to as an 'early exit' and failed to make the All-Ireland quarter-finals, the domestic knock-out competition would still not begin until the weekend of September 7.
The fixtures plan shows that the reserve championships will get underway on the weekend of June 27, the finals fixed for August 22, while the club u21 championship will begin on Tuesday June 17, with the semi-finals down for decision on August 12. It also shows that clubs will be expected to play a maximum of four games over the months of June through to October without their county players, with a total of two starred games altogether should Tyrone fail to make the All-Ireland quarter-final.
Regardless of Tyrone's progress, the county senior championship final is fixed for October 19, allowing the Tyrone winners two weeks to prepare for the opening round of the Ulster Club series.
- See more at: http://ulsterherald.com/2014/02/13/tyrone-teams-progress-to-determine-domestic-schedule/#sthash.jGwGaAse.dpuf
Is April 29th not a Tuesday? ??? ??? ???
Quote from: bogball88 on February 13, 2014, 09:58:30 AM
Is April 29th not a Tuesday? ??? ??? ???
Yes it is, as is the 22nd(Easter)
Quote from: WeeDonns on February 13, 2014, 10:27:12 AM
Quote from: bogball88 on February 13, 2014, 09:58:30 AM
Is April 29th not a Tuesday? ??? ??? ???
Yes it is, as is the 22nd(Easter)
i would imagine thats a typo and it should be 27th April not the 29th
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on February 13, 2014, 09:34:19 AM
A bit of forward planning at least.
This may not be perfect, but its what players have been crying out for, a bit of notice of what the plans are.
+1
At least an effort is being made.
They must've heard WeeDonns was coming after their job.
Quote from: WeeDonns on October 30, 2013, 10:25:08 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on October 30, 2013, 09:31:31 AM
I think every club should have the opportunity to field their strongest side on championship day, so that should be taken into account, but certainly for the league, games need to continue on regardless of county minor football. If that means the lads are unable to play for their clubs, then so be it.
Yeah, I would think so. Our Club are rarely in this situation so would be keen to hear the opinions of others.
My thinking would be these lads are involved in; County Minors, Club Minors, Club U21s, Schools football, Senior Club Championship & whatever Senior league games they're available for when there are no conflicts.
With player burnout in mind, and the hope that they'll have 15+ years adult club league football ahead of them, I wouldn't be expecting them to complete a full season of adult league football alongside the rest of their commitments.
A smaller club with 1 star minor player might disagree...
Did Brendan Harpur quit his role with the Tyrone board over this very thing. We expect too much from our star players especially the young ones. And to achieve 15yrs of football without serious injury there needs to be a change in expectations. Players welfare needs looked at especially when our insurance scheme is in the state it is in. aND IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE
From Gaelic Life
It was disappointing to see Tyrone receiving more negative press in recent days over the stepping down by Brendan Harpur from his role as coaching officer on child protection and player welfare grounds, and his concerns over the number of games young players are expected to play.
He did great work during his time in a similar role in Dublin, and it was seen as a bit of a coup for Tyrone to get him back up here again. There have been major question marks over how young players have been developed in Tyrone over the past few years, and I think Brendan was trying to sort that out. He felt though that for people to stand up and take notice, he had to take the action of stepping down.
I'm involved with our minors this year, and I can see where Brendan is coming from. Our players recently had a situation where they had to play four games in a week. They played for the seniors/reserves on the Sunday, u-21s on the Tuesday, minors on the Thursday, and back to the seniors/reserves on the Sunday. In three of those games, those boys were going out against physically bigger and stronger and more developed players.
Teams will always play their best players. And players will always want to play in games. Therefore, the onus has to be on fixture-makers to try to ease the workload.
This year, with the minor league and Championship in full flow, and the reserve Championship going full tilt, Tyrone decided to start playing an u-21 competition, and on a group of six basis instead of a straight knock-out.
There doesn't seem to be any common sense involved when it comes to setting fixtures. Change has to come from the top down, it's up to the GAA centrally to set the agenda, because until there is a set rota of games, and proper guidelines issued as to what players can or can't play in which codes, then we'll carry on talking about this year on year, and our best young players are going to be wrecked by the time they reach 21 years of age.
- See more at: http://gaeliclife.com/2014/07/brian-mcguigan-harpur-issue-a-huge-own-goal/#sthash.jfs5klOL.dpuf
Yeah, I think this is pretty much why he felt he had to step down. Everyone will have different opinions on this depending on their own clubs personal circumstances.
QuoteTeams will always play their best players. And players will always want to play in games. Therefore, the onus has to be on fixture-makers to try to ease the workload.
That’s an interesting article from McGuigan; He acknowledges there’s a problem and too much is being asked of young players, but there’s no suggestion of the best youth players focusing on youth competitions, instead the blame is being laid at the feet of the fixture-makers.
But if the fixture-makers rearrange competitions so that the best young players can take part in them all with minimal or no overlaps, what about the silent majority – the shite, average & just not good enough young players? How much of the year would they be sitting with no football at all? They’ll drift away, Granted they might never be the guys to lead the club to the O’Neill Cup, but if a club is to be successful, it needs to keep these people on board. These people need catered for too. This is why it’s nearly impossible for the fixture-makers to keep everyone happy.
IMO, clubs & managers need to take responsibility. It’s easy to blame fixtures, although its often justified, but how about letting youth players focus on youth competitions while they can, there’s plenty of time to focus on Senior & Reserves when they’re the only competitions you’re eligible for…
Although fixturing Minors & U21s in the same week, with adult games at either end is just plain stupid