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Looks like Ireland is leading the way for Europe in the worldwide obesity surge

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0505/698970-obesity/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0505/698970-obesity/)

Latest expert opinion indicate lack exercise is not the problem at all or even fats so much but mainly sugar
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32417699

The solution appears to be stay away from processed foods.

Potential to be a massive problem with far further reaching consequences for our society than something like gay marriage, which some posters appear obsessed with.

And with the pressure on the healthcare system potentially even bigger financial problems than bailouts and government borrowing

One problem is the amount of pointless sugar and salt etc in processed foods which don't really need it. Most of these products would do just as well with half as much.

There is an approach right now by a lot of the food and beverage companies in the US to be seen to move away from high fructose corn syrup in favour of "real" cane sugar. As if Coke made with cane sugar is really that much healthier that the other stuff! Yeah, there is some difference in fructose:glucose ratio and how the body metabolizes it, but does it really matter that much with the sheer amount of sugar that is crammed into these processed foods?

Each whole fruits, meat and vegetables and you'll go a long way towards avoiding obesity.

Skip meat altogether and you'll be grand.

"Look at your man out for a run. Dick!"

"Look at your man out cycling. Dick!"

"Look at your man out for a walk. Dick!"

"Look at your man going to the gym. Dick!"

"Look at your man playing tennis. Dick!"

J70 your spot on the problem is not the type of sugar but sugar itself

Its literaly a great big fat merry-go-round in the US between these food companies and the health industry. This is how it works:




• Food company saturates kids programming with sugar loaded convenience food
  
• Convince parents they are better off buying processed convenience food than cooking real food
  
• Soon the whole family will be eating sugar loaded food for every meal and wanting more, and even better since sugar is addictive needing more and more!
  
• Once hooked on these foods they eat more and more, and buy more and more of the food company's products so the food companies profit handsomely!
  
• When the inevitable diabetes comes calling, in rush the healthcare industry to save the day with their medicine costing on average $8K a year!
  
• Meanwhile said family continues to eat the same processed rubbish emptying more and more of their disposable income to feed their sugar addictions and guarantee they are stuck with diabetes for life and guaranteeing both the food company and the healthcare company a customer for life!

The tobacco industry were amateurs in comparison to this shower!

In America with a privatised healthcare system there is no incentive for governments to do anything about it.

However European governments and the EU need to take a stand, as an obesity and diabetes epidemic will destroy the efficiency of their public healthcare systems.

Quote from: omaghjoe on May 06, 2015, 04:38:36 AM
J70 your spot on the problem is not the type of sugar but sugar itself

Its literaly a great big fat merry-go-round in the US between these food companies and the health industry. This is how it works:

• Food company saturates kids programming with sugar loaded convenience food
  
• Convince parents they are better off buying processed convenience food than cooking real food
  
• Soon the whole family will be eating sugar loaded food for every meal and wanting more, and even better since sugar is addictive needing more and more!
  
• Once hooked on these foods they eat more and more, and buy more and more of the food company's products so the food companies profit handsomely!
  
• When the inevitable diabetes comes calling, in rush the healthcare industry to save the day with their medicine costing on average $8K a year!
  
• Meanwhile said family continues to eat the same processed rubbish emptying more and more of their disposable income to feed their sugar addictions and guarantee they are stuck with diabetes for life and guaranteeing both the food company and the healthcare company a customer for life!

The tobacco industry were amateurs in comparison to this shower!

In America with a privatised healthcare system there is no incentive for governments to do anything about it.

However European governments and the EU need to take a stand, as an obesity and diabetes epidemic will destroy the efficiency of their public healthcare systems.[/list]

You've pretty much nailed it. I'm not sure if they're all in cahoots together as part of a deliberate conspiracy, but they might as well be since the outcome is the same.

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 06, 2015, 07:40:23 AM

Quote from: omaghjoe on May 06, 2015, 04:38:36 AM
J70 your spot on the problem is not the type of sugar but sugar itself

Its literaly a great big fat merry-go-round in the US between these food companies and the health industry. This is how it works:

• Food company saturates kids programming with sugar loaded convenience food
  
• Convince parents they are better off buying processed convenience food than cooking real food
  
• Soon the whole family will be eating sugar loaded food for every meal and wanting more, and even better since sugar is addictive needing more and more!
  
• Once hooked on these foods they eat more and more, and buy more and more of the food company's products so the food companies profit handsomely!
  
• When the inevitable diabetes comes calling, in rush the healthcare industry to save the day with their medicine costing on average $8K a year!
  
• Meanwhile said family continues to eat the same processed rubbish emptying more and more of their disposable income to feed their sugar addictions and guarantee they are stuck with diabetes for life and guaranteeing both the food company and the healthcare company a customer for life!

The tobacco industry were amateurs in comparison to this shower!

In America with a privatised healthcare system there is no incentive for governments to do anything about it.

However European governments and the EU need to take a stand, as an obesity and diabetes epidemic will destroy the efficiency of their public healthcare systems.[/list]

You've pretty much nailed it. I'm not sure if they're all in cahoots together as part of a deliberate conspiracy, but they might as well be since the outcome is the same.

Yep, its always someone elses fault. Usually big business.

Kids need to exercise more and get to bed earlier, it is alright blaming the salt content in food etc. but getting kids out and about whether at swimming, sports or just out on their bikes more would help greatly.  Kids also need to get to bed earlier, xbox's and playstations mean kids are sitting up longer which invariably means they are eating late at night, if you want to avoid getting overweight stop eating after 7pm!

Quote from: haranguerer on May 06, 2015, 08:30:00 AM

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 06, 2015, 07:40:23 AM

Quote from: omaghjoe on May 06, 2015, 04:38:36 AM
J70 your spot on the problem is not the type of sugar but sugar itself

Its literaly a great big fat merry-go-round in the US between these food companies and the health industry. This is how it works:

• Food company saturates kids programming with sugar loaded convenience food
  
• Convince parents they are better off buying processed convenience food than cooking real food
  
• Soon the whole family will be eating sugar loaded food for every meal and wanting more, and even better since sugar is addictive needing more and more!
  
• Once hooked on these foods they eat more and more, and buy more and more of the food company's products so the food companies profit handsomely!
  
• When the inevitable diabetes comes calling, in rush the healthcare industry to save the day with their medicine costing on average $8K a year!
  
• Meanwhile said family continues to eat the same processed rubbish emptying more and more of their disposable income to feed their sugar addictions and guarantee they are stuck with diabetes for life and guaranteeing both the food company and the healthcare company a customer for life!

The tobacco industry were amateurs in comparison to this shower!

In America with a privatised healthcare system there is no incentive for governments to do anything about it.

However European governments and the EU need to take a stand, as an obesity and diabetes epidemic will destroy the efficiency of their public healthcare systems.[/list]

You've pretty much nailed it. I'm not sure if they're all in cahoots together as part of a deliberate conspiracy, but they might as well be since the outcome is the same.

Yep, its always someone elses fault. Usually big business.

Agreed.  There's enough advertising and info out there regarding the dangers and promoting the need to eat healthy.  People need to accept responsibility for themselves.

Quote from: topcuppla on May 06, 2015, 08:54:35 AM
Kids need to exercise more and get to bed earlier, it is alright blaming the salt content in food etc. but getting kids out and about whether at swimming, sports or just out on their bikes more would help greatly.  Kids also need to get to bed earlier, xbox's and playstations mean kids are sitting up longer which invariably means they are eating late at night, if you want to avoid getting overweight stop eating after 7pm!

Kids need exercise, of that there's no doubt, but they also need parents as role models showing them that going out for a walk/run/cycle/swim is a normal thing that normal people do, not just the lycra clad 'fitness fanatics'.

Also,
  processed food is everywhere you go. Even the milk, bread and what not is processed to an extent, never mind the preprocessed package meals pumped full of MSG, salts, sugars and fats. You can't even go to a butchers now where the bacon and chicken fillets aren't pumped full of some shít or other.

Some of this is to keep the cost of food down, but at what expense to our long term health?

And parents to tell them to get the feck off the xbox and get to bed, also I would advocate no fizzy drinks in the house, at meal times in our house everyone drinks water, if the kids come in thirsty from playing they drink water, if we go out they get juice as a treat.  Parents have a major role to play and should take mores responsibility instead of easy options when kids harp on.

Having got big into training and stuff the last few years it's plain to see that the problem with obesity is not exercise but the type of foods eaten. I'm as big a culprit as anyone but making small but good changes to your diet will bring you down to a healthy weight so much quicker than going for a run every few days!!

I'm glad I realise that now so that I won't make the same mistakes with my own kids!!!

In my experience with my own kids, I can have all the good intentions in the world, but then when they're at the Granny's and Aunty's they are fed with whatever they look for. So the sugar addiction will come.

Still though, they eat well in my house and always will. Diluted Juice is the one thing they take too much of and I am working on weaning them of it.

The amount of teenagers (boys in particular) drinking big cans of Monster and that is scary these days though.

It's too easy to blame the government and the multinational corporations. Yes, they should definitly be doing more. The fact that checkouts are still surrounded by sweets is a joke. Sweets should be in the far corner of the shop and not at the checkouts.

However, when I see an obese child the person I hold responsible is the parent(s). It's up to the parent to make sure their child is eating the right balance of foods, excercise and getting enough sleep. The hard part isn't knowing what to do, it's doing what you know.

Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 06, 2015, 10:15:15 AM
It's too easy to blame the government and the multinational corporations. Yes, they should definitly be doing more. The fact that checkouts are still surrounded by sweets is a joke. Sweets should be in the far corner of the shop and not at the checkouts.

However, when I see an obese child the person I hold responsible is the parent(s). It's up to the parent to make sure their child is eating the right balance of foods, excercise and getting enough sleep. The hard part isn't knowing what to do, it's doing what you know.

We live in a society where we feel the requirement to point the finger of blame.  I take full responsibility for my children and their health as they are a product of their environment and it's up to me to ensure that they get the required balanced food, exercise and rest.  There has always been processed food and there has always been fast food.  The difference is our lifestyles have changed.  When we were younger the majority of us had a mother who stayed at home cooking a balanced dinner from food generally bought locally from the local grocer and butchers.  The majority of this was reasonably freshly grown and people shopped on a 3-4 day basis as opposed to doing a 'big shop'.  The convenience food was there but the fact that we had someone from a different generational mentality preparing it meant that it was a 'proper' cooked meal. 

Also there is a fiscal rationale behind it as well.  Many of my parents generations did not have the money to buy 'luxury' foods and multi packs of crisps etc were rare and generally the stinking Yellow pack shit so we ate less of it!!  We ate smaller meals and less often as there simply was not the same level of food in the house.  Much of our current eating habits are based on habit and availability. 

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 06, 2015, 03:35:25 AM
"Look at your man out for a run. Dick!"

"Look at your man out cycling. Dick!"

"Look at your man out for a walk. Dick!"

"Look at your man going to the gym. Dick!"

"Look at your man playing tennis. Dick!"

Who says that? It's fairly obvious you haven't lived in Ireland for a long time Eamonn. The amount of walkers, runners and cyclists on the roads is huge these days.

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 06, 2015, 10:41:03 AM

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 06, 2015, 03:35:25 AM
"Look at your man out for a run. Dick!"

"Look at your man out cycling. Dick!"

"Look at your man out for a walk. Dick!"

"Look at your man going to the gym. Dick!"

"Look at your man playing tennis. Dick!"

Who says that? It's fairly obvious you haven't lived in Ireland for a long time Eamonn. The amount of walkers, runners and cyclists on the roads is huge these days.

Probably based on Hardy Bucks or Republic of Telly!!!

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 06, 2015, 10:41:03 AM

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 06, 2015, 03:35:25 AM
"Look at your man out for a run. Dick!"

"Look at your man out cycling. Dick!"

"Look at your man out for a walk. Dick!"

"Look at your man going to the gym. Dick!"

"Look at your man playing tennis. Dick!"

Who says that? It's fairly obvious you haven't lived in Ireland for a long time Eamonn. The amount of walkers, runners and cyclists on the roads is huge these days.

This would be a very common reaction among teenagers, in my considerable experience of working with them..

Teenagers say that a lot about everything :) I think the adult population has never been so aware of the benefits of those sort of exercises, and I'd bet the participation rate is massive compared to 10 or 15 years ago.

Childhood/teen obesity might be a different matter alright. Any child not involved in regular sport, GAA, soccer, rugby is probably at risk because of the foods we are all eating.

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 06, 2015, 11:22:59 AM
Teenagers say that a lot about everything :) I think the adult population has never been so aware of the benefits of those sort of exercises, and I'd bet the participation rate is massive compared to 10 or 15 years ago.

Childhood/teen obesity might be a different matter alright. Any child not involved in regular sport, GAA, soccer, rugby is probably at risk because of the foods we are all eating.

I'm only a new parent so I don't know the craic but do kids go out and play anymore? God we used to leave the house at 9 on a Saturday down to the tennis courts to play football all day only coming home for a quick bite and then straight out the door again. The courts have been empty for a long time!

I wonder is this a product of kids not wanting to play outside as much with the dawn of video games or parents being ultra cautious in not letting kids out unsupervised like it used to be back in the day.

In fairness I find in the summer our young lad goes out first thing and is grumbling about being called for his dinner at 6 and when he's called in at night.

The weather can be a problem though, because in the winter it's harder to be casually active like that, you have to plan it and go 'do' something. On a pissing wet day it's a lot easier to stay in and play XBox.

Quote from: screenexile on May 06, 2015, 11:37:11 AM

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 06, 2015, 11:22:59 AM
Teenagers say that a lot about everything :) I think the adult population has never been so aware of the benefits of those sort of exercises, and I'd bet the participation rate is massive compared to 10 or 15 years ago.

Childhood/teen obesity might be a different matter alright. Any child not involved in regular sport, GAA, soccer, rugby is probably at risk because of the foods we are all eating.

I'm only a new parent so I don't know the craic but do kids go out and play anymore? God we used to leave the house at 9 on a Saturday down to the tennis courts to play football all day only coming home for a quick bite and then straight out the door again. The courts have been empty for a long time!

I wonder is this a product of kids not wanting to play outside as much with the dawn of video games or parents being ultra cautious in not letting kids out unsupervised like it used to be back in the day.

All of the above plus with the greater range of crap american tv programs kids can become very lazy and sit and watch TV.  I would be a bit freer with my willingness to allow the kids latitude but she isn't.  It's a shame though as this has a bigger impact n terms of their motor skills development etc. Our childminder is good though as she has a forest at the back and the beach is 2 minutes from their house and her kids and ours go out there any day that it is dry. 

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 06, 2015, 11:22:59 AM
Teenagers say that a lot about everything :) I think the adult population has never been so aware of the benefits of those sort of exercises, and I'd bet the participation rate is massive compared to 10 or 15 years ago.

Childhood/teen obesity might be a different matter alright. Any child not involved in regular sport, GAA, soccer, rugby is probably at risk because of the foods we are all eating.

Well these 2 things are most certainly not mutually excluisive.  As in other spheres of society the fit are getting fitter and the fat are getting fatter.

Most of the what I'd say on the topic has been said.

The old saying is "Eat less, move more" and this has probably changed more over the last 20 years or so. Can see a gradual swing back to it.

Seemed to be an age where kids done as they wish but I think parents are beginning to turn and they would be more active in taking their kids back to sports and getting them outside more.

Eating is probably the one that will take the hardest to change, for processed foods read convenience foods and the easy option. Its the case of quantity as well.

BC1 give a good example of the change in shopping habits and related eating habits.

My woman would be very good at this - she'd hate's overshopping and plans it out for the week. Rarely would she impulse shop. Even a tin of beans would be bought with an evening in mind, rather than buy a 6 pack and see when they last to. In her eyes, if its there it will be used as the easy way out. I'd be the opposite and would overshop when its left to me i.e. without a list. I'd also spend more.

I often say that if a nucleur war breaks out or a zombie apocalypse happens, we'd not last long as we'd have feck all in the presses to live off  :)

I'm really doing a root and branch overhaul of my eating habits at present so this discussion is welcome. I thought when I went at the running I'd be sound but while I'm reasonably fit there's a bit of weight that won't shift and diet is the answer. I'd have come to a lot of the conclusions that have been discussed here. It can be difficult to break habits but when you think your way around it you can get there. My improvements have been modest but consistent. Bake my own brown bread every weekend for the week now - can't suffer that white shite. Gives me heartburn even thinking of it. Little things like that. The cup of tea and (something bad) has been my downfall so try not to have anything after my dinner when I come home.

As for the kids - they're ok so far but the Granny's are a disaster, particularly my own mother. I've tried everything - being calm, getting thick, being calmly thick, but they're just a law unto themselves. Amazingly I find people say to me - "lighten up, that's what grannies are for".

The magnitude of the problem in Ireland (per those surveys) is staggering are warrants serious attention.

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 06, 2015, 12:33:57 PM
I'm really doing a root and branch overhaul of my eating habits at present so this discussion is welcome. I thought when I went at the running I'd be sound but while I'm reasonably fit there's a bit of weight that won't shift and diet is the answer. I'd have come to a lot of the conclusions that have been discussed here. It can be difficult to break habits but when you think your way around it you can get there. My improvements have been modest but consistent. Bake my own brown bread every weekend for the week now - can't suffer that white shite. Gives me heartburn even thinking of it. Little things like that. The cup of tea and (something bad) has been my downfall so try not to have anything after my dinner when I come home.

As for the kids - they're ok so far but the Granny's are a disaster, particularly my own mother. I've tried everything - being calm, getting thick, being calmly thick, but they're just a law unto themselves. Amazingly I find people say to me - "lighten up, that's what grannies are for".

The magnitude of the problem in Ireland (per those surveys) is staggering are warrants serious attention.

That would be my downfall as well, got the hang if it to an extent and can have a cup of tea without any soakage to go with it.

Now the vino is a different ball game all together!!

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 06, 2015, 12:33:57 PM
I'm really doing a root and branch overhaul of my eating habits at present so this discussion is welcome. I thought when I went at the running I'd be sound but while I'm reasonably fit there's a bit of weight that won't shift and diet is the answer. I'd have come to a lot of the conclusions that have been discussed here. It can be difficult to break habits but when you think your way around it you can get there. My improvements have been modest but consistent. Bake my own brown bread every weekend for the week now - can't suffer that white shite. Gives me heartburn even thinking of it. Little things like that. The cup of tea and (something bad) has been my downfall so try not to have anything after my dinner when I come home.

As for the kids - they're ok so far but the Granny's are a disaster, particularly my own mother. I've tried everything - being calm, getting thick, being calmly thick, but they're just a law unto themselves. Amazingly I find people say to me - "lighten up, that's what grannies are for".
The magnitude of the problem in Ireland (per those surveys) is staggering are warrants serious attention.

We've had great success here  :) And the key was not by getting onto the Grannies (The Untouchables) but the kids themselves. Ours are 5 and 7, they'd have the run of the Grannies houses - sweets, soft drinks, crisps, Mr Freezes etc the lot.

We just kept at it and the kids will refuse all these now and the compromise is they will have a plain biscuit instead and are as happy as larry with this. When we are in house with them, they'll get a few jellys from the Grannies and they are happy with this.

We worked at it through the old reward chart system and they got other stuff instead - a book, match attacks, half a hour playing on the Xbox, ipad or Wii etc. A lot of stuff they'd have got anyway was dressed up as reward.

Now, its just the norm, so rewards have lessened. The Grannies actually complained for a bit that the poor children wouldn't even take a sweet and said they weren't allowed but even they noticed over time and would comment that they "ate a great dinner today, couldn't fill them!". Gradually it dawned on them it was because they didn't snack all day on the other stuff.

Worked well and we'd not be totally anti-anything they do get treats etc and enjoy them more. One thing though is that neither of them have ever tasted any type of coke. They tried seven up and the wee girl doesn't like it and the wee lad will take it the odd time when we are out for dinner in hotel or restaurant. Other than that, its water and milk.

Ah fcuk ye are making me feel guilty for that foot long meatball sub I've just had...

I used to sit down every evening after getting the kids to bed with a coffee and a handful of biscuits (6 or 7). I now limit it to 2. That cuts out at least a packet a week. Small steps and small changes can make the difference.

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 06, 2015, 10:41:03 AM

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 06, 2015, 03:35:25 AM
"Look at your man out for a run. Dick!"

"Look at your man out cycling. Dick!"

"Look at your man out for a walk. Dick!"

"Look at your man going to the gym. Dick!"

"Look at your man playing tennis. Dick!"

Who says that? It's fairly obvious you haven't lived in Ireland for a long time Eamonn. The amount of walkers, runners and cyclists on the roads is huge these days.

No one says that. 

Look Eamonnca1's made another post. Dick!

I think the stats might show we have a problem, but the amount of 30+ years olds, 40+ and even 50+ taking up running, cycling etc shows that Irish people knew this instinctively and lots are already trying to do something about it.

Regarding the sugars in drinks. I spend a lot of time in the States and am shocked at the amount of sugar in drinks over there. Since I started on the running thread here, my awareness of these things has increased a lot (blissfully unaware was my starting point). I will accept 7g of sugar (saturated fats) in a small bottle of say 150mls. In Ireland you regularly see up to 17g but in the US I have seen 50g in the same size bottle.

Ironically I think the morbid obesity you used to see everywhere in the US is (thankfully) being reversed. I have no idea what might have changed things but you certainly see plenty of joggers and cyclists, maybe that is it.

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 06, 2015, 11:43:23 AM

Quote from: screenexile on May 06, 2015, 11:37:11 AM

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 06, 2015, 11:22:59 AM
Teenagers say that a lot about everything :) I think the adult population has never been so aware of the benefits of those sort of exercises, and I'd bet the participation rate is massive compared to 10 or 15 years ago.

Childhood/teen obesity might be a different matter alright. Any child not involved in regular sport, GAA, soccer, rugby is probably at risk because of the foods we are all eating.

I'm only a new parent so I don't know the craic but do kids go out and play anymore? God we used to leave the house at 9 on a Saturday down to the tennis courts to play football all day only coming home for a quick bite and then straight out the door again. The courts have been empty for a long time!

I wonder is this a product of kids not wanting to play outside as much with the dawn of video games or parents being ultra cautious in not letting kids out unsupervised like it used to be back in the day.

All of the above plus with the greater range of crap american tv programs kids can become very lazy and sit and watch TV.  I would be a bit freer with my willingness to allow the kids latitude but she isn't.  It's a shame though as this has a bigger impact n terms of their motor skills development etc. Our childminder is good though as she has a forest at the back and the beach is 2 minutes from their house and her kids and ours go out there any day that it is dry.

Electronic games is getting to be a serious issue in our house now to the point that they have to be put under lock and key as were going to bed at night only to see the glow coming from under a bedroom door at 11pm!

My wains play a good bit outside but certainly not to the extent that I or my generation did. My eldest is doing cyling proficiency at school and wanted to ride his bike home afterwards and the missus was having none of it. It is only a mile or so and I told him to go on ahead but at 10 y.o. I would have been around country roads for hours on my bike with nothing said.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 06, 2015, 01:54:11 PM
Electronic games is getting to be a serious issue in our house now to the point that they have to be put under lock and key as were going to bed at night only to see the glow coming from under a bedroom door at 11pm!

My wains play a good bit outside but certainly not to the extent that I or my generation did. My eldest is doing cyling proficiency at school and wanted to ride his bike home afterwards and the missus was having none of it. It is only a mile or so and I told him to go on ahead but at 10 y.o. I would have been around country roads for hours on my bike with nothing said.

Its a total different culture now regards what passes as "playing outside".

Was talking with a couple of mates recently and we remembered cycling up to Carrickmacross from Blayney on the N2 (which was a poor road for cycling in parts at the time) as their was a shop that had great ice cream or so we believed. We reckoned we were about 13 or so at the time. Doubt anyone missed us or even asked where we'd been for the half the day.

Quote from: Bingo on May 06, 2015, 02:03:11 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 06, 2015, 01:54:11 PM
Electronic games is getting to be a serious issue in our house now to the point that they have to be put under lock and key as were going to bed at night only to see the glow coming from under a bedroom door at 11pm!

My wains play a good bit outside but certainly not to the extent that I or my generation did. My eldest is doing cyling proficiency at school and wanted to ride his bike home afterwards and the missus was having none of it. It is only a mile or so and I told him to go on ahead but at 10 y.o. I would have been around country roads for hours on my bike with nothing said.

Its a total different culture now regards what passes as "playing outside".

Was talking with a couple of mates recently and we remembered cycling up to Carrickmacross from Blayney on the N2 (which was a poor road for cycling in parts at the time) as their was a shop that had great ice cream or so we believed. We reckoned we were about 13 or so at the time. Doubt anyone missed us or even asked where we'd been for the half the day.

I have a 6 and a half year old. He still hasn't been allowed out on the street where we live in Dublin. I regret this big time but don't see it changing anytime soon. When I was his age I used to walk 2 miles home from school unsupervised bringing a neighbour's 5 year old with me. But that was in Mayo.

Quote from: Bingo on May 06, 2015, 02:03:11 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 06, 2015, 01:54:11 PM
Electronic games is getting to be a serious issue in our house now to the point that they have to be put under lock and key as were going to bed at night only to see the glow coming from under a bedroom door at 11pm!

My wains play a good bit outside but certainly not to the extent that I or my generation did. My eldest is doing cyling proficiency at school and wanted to ride his bike home afterwards and the missus was having none of it. It is only a mile or so and I told him to go on ahead but at 10 y.o. I would have been around country roads for hours on my bike with nothing said.

Its a total different culture now regards what passes as "playing outside".

Was talking with a couple of mates recently and we remembered cycling up to Carrickmacross from Blayney on the N2 (which was a poor road for cycling in parts at the time) as their was a shop that had great ice cream or so we believed. We reckoned we were about 13 or so at the time. Doubt anyone missed us or even asked where we'd been for the half the day.

Don't talk Bingo,  we used to cycle down to Black's Island and go out on the canoes then back up the main road to Roche Castle for a picnic and then take the back road down home.  We were no more than 14 and thought nothing of doing that.  My eldest lad would do it if he's at his mates house.  Need to loosen the leash a wee bit more

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 06, 2015, 02:11:35 PM

Quote from: Bingo on May 06, 2015, 02:03:11 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 06, 2015, 01:54:11 PM
Electronic games is getting to be a serious issue in our house now to the point that they have to be put under lock and key as were going to bed at night only to see the glow coming from under a bedroom door at 11pm!

My wains play a good bit outside but certainly not to the extent that I or my generation did. My eldest is doing cyling proficiency at school and wanted to ride his bike home afterwards and the missus was having none of it. It is only a mile or so and I told him to go on ahead but at 10 y.o. I would have been around country roads for hours on my bike with nothing said.

Its a total different culture now regards what passes as "playing outside".

Was talking with a couple of mates recently and we remembered cycling up to Carrickmacross from Blayney on the N2 (which was a poor road for cycling in parts at the time) as their was a shop that had great ice cream or so we believed. We reckoned we were about 13 or so at the time. Doubt anyone missed us or even asked where we'd been for the half the day.

Don't talk Bingo,  we used to cycle down to Black's Island, get beat round the place by the Blayney Boys and go out on the canoes then back up the main road to Roche Castle for a picnic and then take the back road down home.  We were no more than 14 and thought nothing of doing that.  My eldest lad would do it if he's at his mates house.  Need to loosen the leash a wee bit more

Corrected that a bit for you  ;)

The definition of "obesity" is laughable if it weren't taken so seriously. It would amaze you  how little it takes to be categorized "obese" nowadays.

There is a food documentary on Netflix called "fed up" it would open your eyes to the whole subject.

Looking around facebook you see posts all the time, in getting sweets with the kids, ice cream, buns.....  I know one family who say their eldest boy refuses to eat anything but crisps and mcdonalds so guess what he gets every day? I think you have to take a strict stance with the kids. They won't know any different. I didn't let any of my crew near sweets for 3-4 years. They love the veggies and fruit and I keep them all active. Bed at 7.30pm every night and 20 mins of computer games a day.
There is no problem with kids-  there is a problem with parenting, or lack thereof.

We are here to protect and nurture their spiritual, physical and emotional well-being...

Quote from: The Iceman on May 06, 2015, 03:40:56 PM
There is a food documentary on Netflix called "fed up" it would open your eyes to the whole subject.

Looking around facebook you see posts all the time, in getting sweets with the kids, ice cream, buns.....  I know one family who say their eldest boy refuses to eat anything but crisps and mcdonalds so guess what he gets every day? I think you have to take a strict stance with the kids. They won't know any different. I didn't let any of my crew near sweets for 3-4 years. They love the veggies and fruit and I keep them all active. Bed at 7.30pm every night and 20 mins of computer games a day.
There is no problem with kids-  there is a problem with parenting, or lack thereof.

We are here to protect and nurture their spiritual, physical and emotional well-being...

That's well and good for you Holy Joes but what about the rest of us heathens!!! :P

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 06, 2015, 03:43:04 PM

Quote from: The Iceman on May 06, 2015, 03:40:56 PM
There is a food documentary on Netflix called "fed up" it would open your eyes to the whole subject.

Looking around facebook you see posts all the time, in getting sweets with the kids, ice cream, buns.....  I know one family who say their eldest boy refuses to eat anything but crisps and mcdonalds so guess what he gets every day? I think you have to take a strict stance with the kids. They won't know any different. I didn't let any of my crew near sweets for 3-4 years. They love the veggies and fruit and I keep them all active. Bed at 7.30pm every night and 20 mins of computer games a day.
There is no problem with kids-  there is a problem with parenting, or lack thereof.

We are here to protect and nurture their spiritual, physical and emotional well-being...

I never mentioned the good Lord once ;)
we're all "spiritual" :P

In fairness I did notice how fat people were in general the last time I was back which is strange because there seems to be about 20 gyms in every town

That's well and good for you Holy Joes but what about the rest of us heathens!!! :P

Quote from: Franko on May 06, 2015, 09:07:50 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 06, 2015, 08:30:00 AM

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 06, 2015, 07:40:23 AM

Quote from: omaghjoe on May 06, 2015, 04:38:36 AM
J70 your spot on the problem is not the type of sugar but sugar itself

Its literaly a great big fat merry-go-round in the US between these food companies and the health industry. This is how it works:

• Food company saturates kids programming with sugar loaded convenience food
  
• Convince parents they are better off buying processed convenience food than cooking real food
  
• Soon the whole family will be eating sugar loaded food for every meal and wanting more, and even better since sugar is addictive needing more and more!
  
• Once hooked on these foods they eat more and more, and buy more and more of the food company's products so the food companies profit handsomely!
  
• When the inevitable diabetes comes calling, in rush the healthcare industry to save the day with their medicine costing on average $8K a year!
  
• Meanwhile said family continues to eat the same processed rubbish emptying more and more of their disposable income to feed their sugar addictions and guarantee they are stuck with diabetes for life and guaranteeing both the food company and the healthcare company a customer for life!

The tobacco industry were amateurs in comparison to this shower!

In America with a privatised healthcare system there is no incentive for governments to do anything about it.

However European governments and the EU need to take a stand, as an obesity and diabetes epidemic will destroy the efficiency of their public healthcare systems.[/list]

You've pretty much nailed it. I'm not sure if they're all in cahoots together as part of a deliberate conspiracy, but they might as well be since the outcome is the same.

Yep, its always someone elses fault. Usually big business.

Agreed.  There's enough advertising and info out there regarding the dangers and promoting the need to eat healthy.  People need to accept responsibility for themselves.

I am sure you will have no bother explaining this then..


http://www.theguardian.com/society/2003/apr/21/usnews.food

Quote from: Canalman on May 06, 2015, 03:36:55 PM
The definition of "obesity" is laughable if it weren't taken so seriously. It would amaze you  how little it takes to be categorized "obese" nowadays.

I recently heard (kinda) the opposite of this - that we're so used to seeing / being overweight people, we don't realise what overweight means

Quote from: The Iceman on May 06, 2015, 03:57:38 PM

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 06, 2015, 03:43:04 PM

Quote from: The Iceman on May 06, 2015, 03:40:56 PM
There is a food documentary on Netflix called "fed up" it would open your eyes to the whole subject.

Looking around facebook you see posts all the time, in getting sweets with the kids, ice cream, buns.....  I know one family who say their eldest boy refuses to eat anything but crisps and mcdonalds so guess what he gets every day? I think you have to take a strict stance with the kids. They won't know any different. I didn't let any of my crew near sweets for 3-4 years. They love the veggies and fruit and I keep them all active. Bed at 7.30pm every night and 20 mins of computer games a day.
There is no problem with kids-  there is a problem with parenting, or lack thereof.

We are here to protect and nurture their spiritual, physical and emotional well-being...

I never mentioned the good Lord once ;)
we're all "spiritual" :P

In fairness I did notice how fat people were in general the last time I was back which is strange because there seems to be about 20 gyms in every town

That's well and good for you Holy Joes but what about the rest of us heathens!!! :P

I think that more about the egos of the property boom rather than any indication of a healthier Ireland.

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 06, 2015, 10:32:41 AM

Quote from: OakleafCounty on May 06, 2015, 10:15:15 AM
It's too easy to blame the government and the multinational corporations. Yes, they should definitly be doing more. The fact that checkouts are still surrounded by sweets is a joke. Sweets should be in the far corner of the shop and not at the checkouts.

However, when I see an obese child the person I hold responsible is the parent(s). It's up to the parent to make sure their child is eating the right balance of foods, excercise and getting enough sleep. The hard part isn't knowing what to do, it's doing what you know.

We live in a society where we feel the requirement to point the finger of blame.  I take full responsibility for my children and their health as they are a product of their environment and it's up to me to ensure that they get the required balanced food, exercise and rest.  There has always been processed food and there has always been fast food.  The difference is our lifestyles have changed.  When we were younger the majority of us had a mother who stayed at home cooking a balanced dinner from food generally bought locally from the local grocer and butchers.  The majority of this was reasonably freshly grown and people shopped on a 3-4 day basis as opposed to doing a 'big shop'.  The convenience food was there but the fact that we had someone from a different generational mentality preparing it meant that it was a 'proper' cooked meal. 

Also there is a fiscal rationale behind it as well.  Many of my parents generations did not have the money to buy 'luxury' foods and multi packs of crisps etc were rare and generally the stinking Yellow pack shit so we ate less of it!!  We ate smaller meals and less often as there simply was not the same level of food in the house.  Much of our current eating habits are based on habit and availability.

I agree that its a personal choice however when you have impressional kids (and impressional adults) being bombarded with junk food advertisements then the choice is being heavily weighted in favour of oneside.
Especially when half these junk adverts tell us that we will be more cool, more popular, more fashionable AND MORE HEALTHY. We have to be informed fully of both sides to make a choice and that's not happening.
Look what happened when we were given proper warning with tobacco products

Processed food was not always around and in fact its emergence in post WW2 year is also seen the emergence of so called Western diseases such as heart disease diabetes and so on.
Fats got the blame for these diseases based on studies of low fat diets such as in the Med where the diseases were absent. But ignored their absence of traditional high fat diets such as the Eskimo/Inuit diet.
So the food companies started to put less fat but food tastes like crap without fat so the food companies add sugar to their foods and guess what? People get even fatter and those diseases get worse and worse

However your point about a Mum being at home arranging healthy dinners is an interesting one, the way out of it is to stick to our traditions eat the food your parents and grandparents ate, it has served us well for generations.
All we gotta do is eat food

I used to be skeptical of food fads and fashions (still am actually) until the wife forced me to read this book "In defense of food" by Michael Pollan, which basically says eat REAL food and you'll be alright.

Quote from: The Iceman on May 06, 2015, 03:40:56 PM
There is a food documentary on Netflix called "fed up" it would open your eyes to the whole subject.

Looking around facebook you see posts all the time, in getting sweets with the kids, ice cream, buns.....  I know one family who say their eldest boy refuses to eat anything but crisps and mcdonalds so guess what he gets every day? I think you have to take a strict stance with the kids. They won't know any different. I didn't let any of my crew near sweets for 3-4 years. They love the veggies and fruit and I keep them all active. Bed at 7.30pm every night and 20 mins of computer games a day.
There is no problem with kids-  there is a problem with parenting, or lack thereof.

We are here to protect and nurture their spiritual, physical and emotional well-being...

Exactly. You have to be engaged and you have to put the foot down when necessary.

I remember my grandfather having a fry every day of his life, except when my grandmother was away minding us, in which case he 3 fried meals a day. He was never remotely fat.

Even just typing that has made me hungry.

Quote from: muppet on May 06, 2015, 05:29:33 PM
I remember my grandfather having a fry every day of his life, except when my grandmother was away minding us, in which case he 3 fried meals a day. He was never remotely fat.

Even just typing that has made me hungry.

I bet he was an active man though - out working the fields or manual labour? My grandfather was the same but he was a tight man working outside all the time.
I love a fry up but I'll make sure i have a load of outside work to do later that day i am going to indulge

Quote from: The Iceman on May 06, 2015, 05:31:12 PM

Quote from: muppet on May 06, 2015, 05:29:33 PM
I remember my grandfather having a fry every day of his life, except when my grandmother was away minding us, in which case he 3 fried meals a day. He was never remotely fat.

Even just typing that has made me hungry.

I bet he was an active man though - out working the fields or manual labour? My grandfather was the same but he was a tight man working outside all the time.
I love a fry up but I'll make sure i have a load of outside work to do later that day i am going to indulge

Yes, both he was a labourer with a small farm and never had a car. He cycled everywhere.

In my opinion the main problem is lack of exercise and not the diet, due to more computer games, availability of television shows etc. From my own experience I found that the exercise came first which brought on the healthier diet, as I just could not stomach some of the wrong foods. Maybe I'm wrong but if I was to go on a healthy diet, with limited exercise next week it wouldn't last. However when I took up running I found that I was gearing towards the healthy option because if I did take the wrong food or drink I would feel the effects of it in the next day out.



   

It's all right saying "people should take personal responsibility" but that's a bit like trying to fix the litter problem by coming out with the statement "people should stop dropping litter." All well and good but it doesn't actually change anything.

I can't speak for Ireland but I know the American food supply is so full of shite that it's very hard to avoid sugar and other crap. Sure they even have their Corn Flakes loaded with High Fructose Corn Syrup. Even foods that aren't sweet and labeled to imply that they're healthy are full of all kinds of garbage. It's one of the reasons I became vegetarian a few years ago, I just don't trust the meat producers. 

In the last year I've phased out most of the processed foods from my diet, and I threw my microwave into the skip. No more TV dinners, and I only use the freezer for frozen desserts. I live close to supermarkets so I might as well make use of them and eat fresh produce. Instead of food shopping once a week I go a couple of times a week to top up.

For obesity in the states I blame the following:

• Poor dietary choices
• Messed up subsidies that make processed foods cheaper than fresh produce
• The lobbying power of the Iowa corn industry that has somehow put their HFCS by-product into just about everything
• Lack of cooking skills that makes people inclined to go for fast food
• Lack of access to fresh food in low income neighborhoods ("food deserts" is what they call them here)
• Bad land-use patterns like single-use zoning and suburban sprawl that make it physically impossible to walk anywhere and forces everyone to drive. It also turns parents into chauffeurs since the children have to be ferried about to all their pre-planned activities.
• Rampant paranoia about child abduction that has made helicopter parenting almost mandatory and effectively bans the practice of letting children out to play by themselves. No such thing as showing up at your mate's house unannounced now. Now the parents arrange a "play date" for them.

It's all right saying people should get out and walk, but if you live somewhere like LA where your school is ten miles away and only accessible by six-lane highways, walking across the fields isn't really an option. There was even a story a few years ago where some school children were disciplined and suspended for cycling to school because the authorities decided it was too dangerous.

It's all right saying children should go out and play, but there was a story the other week about the children in Washington that were taken into custody by police and kept for several hours when some nosy neighbor reported them walking home alone. Kids have to amuse themselves somehow, and if they're not allowed to do it outside then the chances are they'll resort to electronic games.

It's all right saying people should make better choices, but if you're on a tight budget and the dead calories in a packet are cheaper than a butternut squash, chances are you're going to go for the cheaper option.

I don't know how much of this applies to Ireland, but there it is.

Quote from: eddie d on May 06, 2015, 07:15:17 PM
In my opinion the main problem is lack of exercise and not the diet, due to more computer games, availability of television shows etc. From my own experience I found that the exercise came first which brought on the healthier diet, as I just could not stomach some of the wrong foods. Maybe I'm wrong but if I was to go on a healthy diet, with limited exercise next week it wouldn't last. However when I took up running I found that I was gearing towards the healthy option because if I did take the wrong food or drink I would feel the effects of it in the next day out.

Your flying in the face of scientific opinion there now Eddie

Low carb diets were like the Atkins diet were mass scientific experiments that blew the calories-in calories-out myth right out of the water.

It helped us discover that fat was not the enemy but carbs and sugar.

Funny thing is we didnt even have to discover this as we were basically ignoring an even bigger scientific experiment which was the tradition of our own traditional diets, which have been evolving over generations to nourish us.

Quote from: omaghjoe on May 06, 2015, 09:00:05 PM

Quote from: eddie d on May 06, 2015, 07:15:17 PM
In my opinion the main problem is lack of exercise and not the diet, due to more computer games, availability of television shows etc. From my own experience I found that the exercise came first which brought on the healthier diet, as I just could not stomach some of the wrong foods. Maybe I'm wrong but if I was to go on a healthy diet, with limited exercise next week it wouldn't last. However when I took up running I found that I was gearing towards the healthy option because if I did take the wrong food or drink I would feel the effects of it in the next day out.

Your flying in the face of scientific opinion there now Eddie

Low carb diets were like the Atkins diet were mass scientific experiments that blew the calories-in calories-out myth right out of the water.

It helped us discover that fat was not the enemy but carbs and sugar.

Funny thing is we didnt even have to discover this as we were basically ignoring an even bigger scientific experiment which was the tradition of our own traditional diets, which have been evolving over generations to nourish us.

What I meant was, when I focused on getting more exercise first, I was inclined to eat healthier as a result of it. Yet if I was to eat healthy next week, with very little exercise I would likely give up.

So the attitude of more exercise doesn't work. Calories in versus calories out is bullshit when calories in are not all equal.
for example: 160 calories from a handfulof almond nuts with dietary fibre that regulate blood sugar levels versus 160 calories from a drink of pepsi that immediately enters the blood stream, spiking insulin levels and creating fat. Exercise doesn't help any of that. How much exercise will a child need to do to burn 160 calories? 80 minutes of jogging

The problem is sugar. Excess sugar in processed foods, low fat foods, reduced fat foods, diet foods.

the only way to combat childhood obesity and obesity in general is to remove sugar. consume clean healthy calories, stop drinking fizzy drinks and eating sweets and then promote some exercise and activity....

Thats the crux of the documentary FED UP. Worth watching lads.

I'm with the Iceman on this. I think the quality of your calorie intake is more important than quantity. At the end of the day you'll eat until you feel full because your body will let you how much you need and there's no way you can game the system by going hungry. But exercise has to be part of it too, it doesn't have to be an either/or choice between better eating and better diet.

Ha Iceman I watched it as well.

Recommend it to everyone because it actually affects everyone every day

Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 06, 2015, 02:47:51 AM
Skip meat altogether and you'll be grand.

Don't think so, I am doing Atkins and am down 20 pounds in 3 1/2 weeks, blood pressure back to normal. No excessive bad carbs, sugar and will do well. I eat no "bad" carbs with the carbs coming from certain veggies and protien- beef, fish, pork and eggs. Feel great, more energy and puffiness gone.

Now on to stage two with more veggies & nuts.

Eating like a king and enjoying every minute although I do miss pizza and ice cream.

Quote from: DrinkingHarp on May 07, 2015, 04:29:14 AM

Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 06, 2015, 02:47:51 AM
Skip meat altogether and you'll be grand.

Don't think so, I am doing Atkins and am down 20 pounds in 3 1/2 weeks, blood pressure back to normal. No excessive bad carbs, sugar and will do well. I eat no "bad" carbs with the carbs coming from certain veggies and protien- beef, fish, pork and eggs. Feel great, more energy and puffiness gone.

Now on to stage two with more veggies & nuts.

Eating like a king and enjoying every minute although I do miss pizza and ice cream.

Good for you.

Not sure how that counts against my point though.

Besides the main problem of passing up super tasty food that is packed full of nutrients, many of which are not available through veggies. You aren't necessarily cutting out on the main culprit which is sugar.

Plus you are more likely to eat the old empty carbs and sugar for your energy. Also the only fats you eat will be processed vegetable fats which are a total lottery in terms of whether they are good or bad for ye.

Vegetarianism is another great food experiment  that has been going on for centuries in India and while India has as lower rates of cancer for example, other mineral lacking diseases like rickets and infectious diseases are more prevalent.

Meat has been part of our diet since before we evolved into humans I wouldn't mess with that plus its too dam tasty. A very wise chap once said to me.

"if you were supposed to eat meat it wouldn't be meat flavoured!"

 

Irish Times from 2014

In all, about 90 per cent of Irish men and 84 per cent of Irish women are predicted to fall within a category that ranges from 'overweight' to 'obese' by 2030.
British researchers used a computer model to predict the percentage of men and women who will carry an unhealthy tub of excess weight across Europe in 2020 and 2030. Health experts said the 'shocking' figures showed the huge challenge that health and social care services are facing and warned of the obesity epidemic coming down the tracks.
"Our study presents a worrying picture of rising obesity across Europe. Policies to reverse this trend are urgently needed," said Dr Laura Webber, who headed up the report.
Webber is calling for a tax on sugary drinks and subsidies for fruit and vegetables.
She said that although there was no quick fix for tackling the epidemic, the Government must do more to restrict unhealthy food marketing and make healthy food more affordable.
"The UK and Ireland, where obesity prevalence is among the highest, possess unregulated liberal market economies similar to the US, where the collective actions of big multinational food companies to maximise profit encourages over-consumption," she said.
The predictions were based on a statistical modelling study which incorporated all available data on body mass index (BMI) and obesity/overweight trends in all 53 of the Word Health Organisation's Euro-region countries.
The study, which included the WHO Regional Office for Europe, was presented at the EuroPRevent congress in Amsterdam.

Quote from: The Iceman on May 07, 2015, 12:31:51 AM
So the attitude of more exercise doesn't work. Calories in versus calories out is bullshit when calories in are not all equal.
for example: 160 calories from a handfulof almond nuts with dietary fibre that regulate blood sugar levels versus 160 calories from a drink of pepsi that immediately enters the blood stream, spiking insulin levels and creating fat. Exercise doesn't help any of that. How much exercise will a child need to do to burn 160 calories? 80 minutes of jogging

The problem is sugar. Excess sugar in processed foods, low fat foods, reduced fat foods, diet foods.

the only way to combat childhood obesity and obesity in general is to remove sugar. consume clean healthy calories, stop drinking fizzy drinks and eating sweets and then promote some exercise and activity....

Thats the crux of the documentary FED UP. Worth watching lads.

Yes I agree, that diet is more important. You could exercise all you want, eat an unhealthy diet and still not make much progress. My point was, and maybe its just me, that I did more exercise first and after a few weeks a better diet followed. Now that I haven't done much exercise lately the healthy food has went out the window.

GP tells me it's 20% Exercise, 80% Diet.

Sitting in a chair looking at a screen 8-9 hours a day doesn't help either I imagine. Humans were not designed for that.

Here is a fairly good article on the relationship of sugar and obesity. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/wellbeing/diet/9160114/The-bitter-truth-about-sugar.html

Sugar tastes good and is cheap. Food manufacturers realise this. Get them addicted when they are young and you have a customer for life. A bit like smoking really. I was amazed how much sugar is contained in some foodstuffs. A 500ml bottle of Volvic flavoured water has around 28g or 7 teaspoons of sugar!  Those little 100ml bottle of Danone PROBIOTIC Actimel have almost 3.
         I suppose the food manufacturers are operating businesses which are obviously profit driven. However they should/do have some responsibilities such as not deliberately targeting the very young with advertising.
         I've often asked myself how did Coca Cola decide what names and the frequency of said names to appear on their bottles for the Irish market?

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 07, 2015, 01:07:30 PM
GP tells me it's 20% Exercise, 80% Diet.

Sitting in a chair looking at a screen 8-9 hours a day doesn't help either I imagine. Humans were not designed for that.

Get off the board then and do some work  ;)

Was running with a mate this morning. He a very solid runner but is a big build (ex intercounty footballer - midfielder). He'd have run a right few marathons but not this 3 years as he felt he was carrying too much weight to get his time down, at the same time he knew this was largely muscle rather than fat.

Anyways, he done the Nightrun 10km recently and PB'd in a time of 38.40. Said he really went for it on the night and targeted it from months back. He says that the biggest factor for him was loosing weight in the run up and he done this by very simply stopping doing his weights and workouts. Lost half a stone in a few months with this approach and made a serious difference to his run. (Maybe this be better on the running thread!)

America has gone well of course with crap in food, but also in promoting people to drive everywhere. Quite apart from roads with no proper footpaths, you have drive in restaurants, drive in postboxes, etc. Ireland has taken many dysfunctional attitudes from the US, and in this case Berlin rather than Boston might be a better guide. For instance, in France they have an elaborately designed school meals programme and there is none of this about children not eating vegetables. Here many kids are sent to school with crisps in the lunch box and people would rather a tax cut than well designed subsidised school meals which would infringe on individual "rights" to eat crap.

You would think Canada would be better than the US. But I met an Englishman who was in Vancouver for a year, he used talk a walk with his wife around the block in his suburb  each evening. Someone called the police (whatever about racial prejudice, these were middle aged middle class polite white English people), who came along and questioned them. The police said there was no law against this, I got the impression the police didn't think this a good use of their time, but the fact remains that someone called them.

Is the school meals issue more in post-primary? Our ones take school meals and they are traditional meat and two veg dinners similar to in our day. They also have chicken wraps, curry etc. but definitely none of the crap Jamie Oliver used to bang on about.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 08, 2015, 12:32:03 AM
Is the school meals issue more in post-primary? Our ones take school meals and they are traditional meat and two veg dinners similar to in our day. They also have chicken wraps, curry etc. but definitely none of the crap Jamie Oliver used to bang on about.

The situation in the North is much better than the South.

Quote from: armaghniac on May 08, 2015, 12:33:27 AM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 08, 2015, 12:32:03 AM
Is the school meals issue more in post-primary? Our ones take school meals and they are traditional meat and two veg dinners similar to in our day. They also have chicken wraps, curry etc. but definitely none of the crap Jamie Oliver used to bang on about.

The situation in the North is much better than the South.

Yes, someday we hope to unite our schools dinners with your good selves.

Jebus Christ almighty!

Quote from: muppet on May 08, 2015, 03:49:52 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on May 08, 2015, 12:33:27 AM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 08, 2015, 12:32:03 AM
Is the school meals issue more in post-primary? Our ones take school meals and they are traditional meat and two veg dinners similar to in our day. They also have chicken wraps, curry etc. but definitely none of the crap Jamie Oliver used to bang on about.

The situation in the North is much better than the South.

Yes, someday we hope to unite our schools dinners with your good selves.

Jebus Christ almighty!

Will you wear a commerative brocolli floret on your lapel every year?

Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 08, 2015, 07:39:20 AM

Quote from: muppet on May 08, 2015, 03:49:52 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on May 08, 2015, 12:33:27 AM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 08, 2015, 12:32:03 AM
Is the school meals issue more in post-primary? Our ones take school meals and they are traditional meat and two veg dinners similar to in our day. They also have chicken wraps, curry etc. but definitely none of the crap Jamie Oliver used to bang on about.

The situation in the North is much better than the South.

Yes, someday we hope to unite our schools dinners with your good selves.

Jebus Christ almighty!

Will you wear a commerative brocolli floret on your lapel every year?

Did I post that?  :-[

I came across this article about a family in America that only eats meat, yep only meat

http://zerocarbzen.com/2015/03/09/zero-carb-interview-the-andersen-family/

Food for thought (sorry!) for the veggies out there..... and the rest of us.
Eye watering amount of money to spend on food tho.

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 06, 2015, 10:41:03 AM

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 06, 2015, 03:35:25 AM
"Look at your man out for a run. Dick!"

"Look at your man out cycling. Dick!"

"Look at your man out for a walk. Dick!"

"Look at your man going to the gym. Dick!"

"Look at your man playing tennis. Dick!"

Who says that? It's fairly obvious you haven't lived in Ireland for a long time Eamonn. The amount of walkers, runners and cyclists on the roads is huge these days.

In all fairness it wasn't too bad in Ireland, and anytime I go back now and go for a spin nobody passes any remarks.

It was rough in England though. Cycling around Manchester I used to get dog's abuse, but then they'd abuse you every time you go out to the corner store for a pint of milk. Depends where you live I suppose. When I lived in Salford it was awful, when I lived in Stockport it was fine. Problem was I usually had to ride through Salford to get to the places I liked to go.

Quote from: omaghjoe on May 16, 2015, 03:16:43 AM
I came across this article about a family in America that only eats meat, yep only meat

http://zerocarbzen.com/2015/03/09/zero-carb-interview-the-andersen-family/

Food for thought (sorry!) for the veggies out there..... and the rest of us.
Eye watering amount of money to spend on food tho.

Jaysus, they look/sound like an awful shower of sickners...

Their colons must be in some shape...

When those kids grow up if they try to eat carbs etc i suspect their body might struggle to process them.

I can't fathom how that diet works and how they are healthy without supplements. Doesn't make any sense..

In fairness, yer woman looks being stuffed with meat suits her.

But it is a bit odd, even on streak diet would you not have a few mushrooms or something as well, or ketchup?

Those pictures look like something you'd see in a cult pamphlet too...
I've heard of 4 days on steak /eggs only diet and 1 day off of whatever you want to eat but this one seems ridiculous...also, yer man dyes his hair...state of him.

Anybody here tried any good diets or recommend any? Not the seafood one but.

To be fair they do appear to be slighly nuts but that's not the point

The point is that they appear to be completely healthy human beings surving only on meat. It is most likely the way we used to live before civilisation started.

As for the shape of their colons you would think it would not be good, buts that's if you are applying the current accepted science to it. However that is also the point, science assumes that we need to eat fibre to keep our colon happy but do they really know? There are various other isolated populations around the world have similar all meat diets and are perfectly healthy, these are great science experiments that have been taking place for millennia and seem to have completely ignored by science until the past few years.
The only conclusion from comparing those populations and us (with our skyrocketing obesity, heart disease and so on)  is that modern food science has completely failed us. It would appear that they know practically nothing about the relationship our bodies have with food at least not to a level where they should be advising people what to eat.

But with that said that diet would not be for me. One of the main reasons I eat (apart from being hungry of course!) is because I like the foods I eat, eating beef all the time would be incredibly boring

Best diets out there is moderation!! I've fish chicken beef during the week, with sweet potato and veg no drink! Weekend I enjoy homemade curry or get the odd takeaway and Sundays usually a roast.... I haven't put any weight on I years, now id regularly exercise too sp it helps...... If you go for the fad diets then you'll end up putting weight on!!

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2015, 09:42:00 AM
Best diets out there is moderation!! I've fish chicken beef during the week, with sweet potato and veg no drink! Weekend I enjoy homemade curry or get the odd takeaway and Sundays usually a roast.... I haven't put any weight on I years, now id regularly exercise too sp it helps...... If you go for the fad diets then you'll end up putting weight on!!

Exactly. There's an industry making millions off our ignorance and our laziness in terms of preparing food. Reduce the portion size of good quality food and increase our activity and it will be fine. The problem is we're a shower of greedy far bastards who need to be told by someone else how to live our lives. Take f**king responsibility stop eating crap

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 17, 2015, 09:59:08 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2015, 09:42:00 AM
Best diets out there is moderation!! I've fish chicken beef during the week, with sweet potato and veg no drink! Weekend I enjoy homemade curry or get the odd takeaway and Sundays usually a roast.... I haven't put any weight on I years, now id regularly exercise too sp it helps...... If you go for the fad diets then you'll end up putting weight on!!

Exactly. There's an industry making millions off our ignorance and our laziness in terms of preparing food. Reduce the portion size of good quality food and increase our activity and it will be fine. The problem is we're a shower of greedy far b**tards who need to be told by someone else how to live our lives. Take f**king responsibility stop eating crap

I also think we have had at least a century or two of famine programmed genetically (and certainly culturally) into our make-up. Leaving anything at all on the plate was met with psychological torture not that long ago.

Quote from: muppet on May 17, 2015, 06:15:30 PM

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 17, 2015, 09:59:08 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2015, 09:42:00 AM
Best diets out there is moderation!! I've fish chicken beef during the week, with sweet potato and veg no drink! Weekend I enjoy homemade curry or get the odd takeaway and Sundays usually a roast.... I haven't put any weight on I years, now id regularly exercise too sp it helps...... If you go for the fad diets then you'll end up putting weight on!!

Exactly. There's an industry making millions off our ignorance and our laziness in terms of preparing food. Reduce the portion size of good quality food and increase our activity and it will be fine. The problem is we're a shower of greedy far b**tards who need to be told by someone else how to live our lives. Take f**king responsibility stop eating crap

I also think we have had at least a century or two of famine programmed genetically (and certainly culturally) into our make-up. Leaving anything at all on the plate was met with psychological torture not that long ago.

And our parents not letting us leave the plate empty lol.... Remember sitting over dinner for a hour one time!!

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2015, 06:52:50 PM

Quote from: muppet on May 17, 2015, 06:15:30 PM

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 17, 2015, 09:59:08 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2015, 09:42:00 AM
Best diets out there is moderation!! I've fish chicken beef during the week, with sweet potato and veg no drink! Weekend I enjoy homemade curry or get the odd takeaway and Sundays usually a roast.... I haven't put any weight on I years, now id regularly exercise too sp it helps...... If you go for the fad diets then you'll end up putting weight on!!

Exactly. There's an industry making millions off our ignorance and our laziness in terms of preparing food. Reduce the portion size of good quality food and increase our activity and it will be fine. The problem is we're a shower of greedy far b**tards who need to be told by someone else how to live our lives. Take f**king responsibility stop eating crap

I also think we have had at least a century or two of famine programmed genetically (and certainly culturally) into our make-up. Leaving anything at all on the plate was met with psychological torture not that long ago.

And our parents not letting us leave the plate empty lol.... Remember sitting over dinner for a hour one time!!

Never a problem in my house!!!

Quote from: muppet on May 17, 2015, 06:15:30 PM

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 17, 2015, 09:59:08 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2015, 09:42:00 AM
Best diets out there is moderation!! I've fish chicken beef during the week, with sweet potato and veg no drink! Weekend I enjoy homemade curry or get the odd takeaway and Sundays usually a roast.... I haven't put any weight on I years, now id regularly exercise too sp it helps...... If you go for the fad diets then you'll end up putting weight on!!

Exactly. There's an industry making millions off our ignorance and our laziness in terms of preparing food. Reduce the portion size of good quality food and increase our activity and it will be fine. The problem is we're a shower of greedy far b**tards who need to be told by someone else how to live our lives. Take f**king responsibility stop eating crap

I also think we have had at least a century or two of famine programmed genetically (and certainly culturally) into our make-up. Leaving anything at all on the plate was met with psychological torture not that long ago.

..and there's childer starving in the world

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 17, 2015, 08:05:14 PM

Quote from: muppet on May 17, 2015, 06:15:30 PM

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 17, 2015, 09:59:08 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2015, 09:42:00 AM
Best diets out there is moderation!! I've fish chicken beef during the week, with sweet potato and veg no drink! Weekend I enjoy homemade curry or get the odd takeaway and Sundays usually a roast.... I haven't put any weight on I years, now id regularly exercise too sp it helps...... If you go for the fad diets then you'll end up putting weight on!!

Exactly. There's an industry making millions off our ignorance and our laziness in terms of preparing food. Reduce the portion size of good quality food and increase our activity and it will be fine. The problem is we're a shower of greedy far b**tards who need to be told by someone else how to live our lives. Take f**king responsibility stop eating crap

I also think we have had at least a century or two of famine programmed genetically (and certainly culturally) into our make-up. Leaving anything at all on the plate was met with psychological torture not that long ago.

..and there's childer starving in the world

Send them the sprouts so!!! <cue slap on the lug>

The Nutrition and Health Foundation (NHF) are running a course tomorrow ' Obesity prevention through changing behaviour '

  http://www.ibec.ie/IBEC/Events.nsf/vPages/Event~obesity-prevention-through-changing-behaviour-10-09-2015?OpenDocument

I suppose the course will be aimed at Health Care Professionals and Government policy makers. I'm not a great one for conspiracy theories, however the listed Stakeholders of NHF make interesting reading!

The Nutrition and Health Foundation (NHF) is a multi-stakeholder partnership.

The following companies support the work of the NHF, both financially and in terms of time given at top executive level to the NHF's committees.

Britvic Ireland  Coca Cola HBC Ireland    Dawn Farm Foods   Glanbia Consumer Foods  Kelkin Limited   Kepak Convenience Foods

Kellogg Company of Ireland Ltd   Largo Foods  Lucozade Ribena Suntory Limited

Mondelez Europe Services Gmbh    Mars Ireland    PepsiCo International 

Disgraceful >:(

If the government had any backbone they would tax the bejaysus outta them considering the pressure they are putting on an effective and healthy workforce, not to mention the Healthcare system

Well who's gonna give up their fry on account of the latest about bacon and sausages?

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34615621

I presume that processed meats includes the black and white puddin too?

90% of people don't understand statistics. 75% of the other half only think they do.

Quote from: omaghjoe on October 28, 2015, 07:19:47 AM
Well who's gonna give up their fry on account of the latest about bacon and sausages?

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34615621

I presume that processed meats includes the black and white puddin too?

The WHO did stress that meat also had health benefits.

Cancer Research UK said this was a reason to cut down rather than give up red and processed meats.

And added that an occasional bacon sandwich would do little harm.

This is all a bit odd.

Smoking, as we know, causes cancer. Thus we are told to give up smoking and packets of cigarettes carry strongly worded warnings regarding the dangers. Furthermore, we are now banned from smoking at work, in pubs and restaurants and even open air football stadia. There have been ads on the media for decades educating us on the risks and effects smoking has.

But there is no such dramatics with processed meat. Why not? If someone has to ask if black & white pudding is processed meat, then it would suggest there has been little or no education on this threat.

A quick google brought this active up: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2661797/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2661797/)

There are two interesting lines in the conclusions:

Individuals who eat more processed meat than average often tend (i) to eat less fruits and vegetables, (ii) to drink more alcoholic beverages, (iii) to smoke more tobacco and (iv) to eat more calories, more fat and be more obese and less active, than those who do not eat processed meat.

The fact that processed meat intake increases colorectal cancer risk seems established from the published meta-analyses of epidemiologic studies. The evidence is weak, however, since the RRs were all less than 2, and observational studies never fully avoid biases and confounders. The excess risk in the highest category of processed meat-eaters is comprised between 20 and 50% compared with non-eaters, which is modest compared with established risk factors like cigarette smoking for lung cancer (RR=20). However, the excess risk per gram of intake is clearly higher than that of fresh red meat.

Quote from: muppet on October 28, 2015, 11:33:39 AM

Quote from: omaghjoe on October 28, 2015, 07:19:47 AM
Well who's gonna give up their fry on account of the latest about bacon and sausages?

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34615621

I presume that processed meats includes the black and white puddin too?

The WHO did stress that meat also had health benefits.

Cancer Research UK said this was a reason to cut down rather than give up red and processed meats.

And added that an occasional bacon sandwich would do little harm.

This is all a bit odd.

Smoking, as we know, causes cancer. Thus we are told to give up smoking and packets of cigarettes carry strongly worded warnings regarding the dangers. Furthermore, we are now banned from smoking at work, in pubs and restaurants and even open air football stadia. There have been ads on the media for decades educating us on the risks and effects smoking has.

But there is no such dramatics with processed meat. Why not? If someone has to ask if black & white pudding is processed meat, then it would suggest there has been little or no education on this threat.

A quick google brought this active up: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2661797/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2661797/)

There are two interesting lines in the conclusions:

Individuals who eat more processed meat than average often tend (i) to eat less fruits and vegetables, (ii) to drink more alcoholic beverages, (iii) to smoke more tobacco and (iv) to eat more calories, more fat and be more obese and less active, than those who do not eat processed meat.

The fact that processed meat intake increases colorectal cancer risk seems established from the published meta-analyses of epidemiologic studies. The evidence is weak, however, since the RRs were all less than 2, and observational studies never fully avoid biases and confounders. The excess risk in the highest category of processed meat-eaters is comprised between 20 and 50% compared with non-eaters, which is modest compared with established risk factors like cigarette smoking for lung cancer (RR=20). However, the excess risk per gram of intake is clearly higher than that of fresh red meat.

Surely that reaffirms your point that you are more likely to get cancer from smoking than from eating processed meat moderately?

I eat a lot of processed meat it's very rare a day goes by I don't have at least a slice of ham. As with everything though it's up to the individual to make an informed decision. My Grandad smoked 40 a day and lived until he was 80 so it's about educating people as much as possible and letting them make their own decisions.

Banning processed meat from public places is a bit different to banning smoking as someone eating a bacon butty beside me doesn't impact on my health in the same way someone smoking beside me does!

The level you are classed "obese" is downright laughable imo. A stone  and a bit overweight will do it. 36 inch waist also.

Fair amount of publicity now about "child obesity" and from my far from scientific viewpoint in observing people out and about. it is the middle aged people in Ireland by and large that are carrying weight and not the young people.

Tell me this , why is the life expectancy rising when processed food is supposedly cancer causing.

Does it not really come down to basic common sense? Eating bacon dripping in grease with fat hanging off it three or four times a week isn't going to be good for you. Even if it doesn't increase the chances of giving you cancer it won't exactly do your cholesterol levels much good. When I first heard the news on this I made one last massive fry up and it will probably be my last  :'(

Quote from: Canalman on October 28, 2015, 12:46:31 PM

Tell me this , why is the life expectancy rising when processed food is supposedly cancer causing.

Relative to say 50 years ago:

Less manual labour
Better nutrition and information about the importance of nutrition
Better access to healthcare
Better medicines
Better detection rates

Quote from: screenexile on October 28, 2015, 11:45:21 AM

Quote from: muppet on October 28, 2015, 11:33:39 AM

Quote from: omaghjoe on October 28, 2015, 07:19:47 AM
Well who's gonna give up their fry on account of the latest about bacon and sausages?

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34615621

I presume that processed meats includes the black and white puddin too?

The WHO did stress that meat also had health benefits.

Cancer Research UK said this was a reason to cut down rather than give up red and processed meats.

And added that an occasional bacon sandwich would do little harm.

This is all a bit odd.

Smoking, as we know, causes cancer. Thus we are told to give up smoking and packets of cigarettes carry strongly worded warnings regarding the dangers. Furthermore, we are now banned from smoking at work, in pubs and restaurants and even open air football stadia. There have been ads on the media for decades educating us on the risks and effects smoking has.

But there is no such dramatics with processed meat. Why not? If someone has to ask if black & white pudding is processed meat, then it would suggest there has been little or no education on this threat.

A quick google brought this active up: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2661797/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2661797/)

There are two interesting lines in the conclusions:

Individuals who eat more processed meat than average often tend (i) to eat less fruits and vegetables, (ii) to drink more alcoholic beverages, (iii) to smoke more tobacco and (iv) to eat more calories, more fat and be more obese and less active, than those who do not eat processed meat.

The fact that processed meat intake increases colorectal cancer risk seems established from the published meta-analyses of epidemiologic studies. The evidence is weak, however, since the RRs were all less than 2, and observational studies never fully avoid biases and confounders. The excess risk in the highest category of processed meat-eaters is comprised between 20 and 50% compared with non-eaters, which is modest compared with established risk factors like cigarette smoking for lung cancer (RR=20). However, the excess risk per gram of intake is clearly higher than that of fresh red meat.

Surely that reaffirms your point that you are more likely to get cancer from smoking than from eating processed meat moderately?

I eat a lot of processed meat it's very rare a day goes by I don't have at least a slice of ham. As with everything though it's up to the individual to make an informed decision. My Grandad smoked 40 a day and lived until he was 80 so it's about educating people as much as possible and letting them make their own decisions.

Banning processed meat from public places is a bit different to banning smoking as someone eating a bacon butty beside me doesn't impact on my health in the same way someone smoking beside me does!

It does. But you wouldn't really think it reading the WHO statement. I am curious to know if there has been a new study, the article scandalously doesn't reference any.

The first line I quote from the study hints that people who eat lots of processed meat are also inclined to be more exposed to other cancer risks. It doesn't clearly state that this could distort the stats, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to read it that way, especially given the 2nd quote.

My Pop-Science amateur radar is in overdrive after reading Ben Goldacre's Bad Science.  :D

Yes bacon is now in the same category as plutonium... and the advice from the WHO as to whether to eat it or not is still very unclear, it will cause cancer but maybe not if you dont eat it all the time.

Processed food would appear not to be on the whole beneficial for your health, its consumption seems to be linked to Western Diseases. But at end of the day that's my opinion only
I enjoy bacon and will continue to eat it however my consumption has tailed off to nothing being in the states. I eat very little processed food these days and put on very little weight unless I am boozin more than normal. And we know it causes cancer but can be good for your heart so..

That report is interesting reading Muppet but full of complete contradictions for anything conclusive which they as much state in their conclusions. Is this the actual report that the WHO used? If it is the report seems to say that the nitrates are the biggest likely cause of the problem not processed meats.....

The bad science argument is strong tho as Muppet says, it studies demographics and doesnt take into account the other cancer causing suspects.
Its statistical evidence, not very scientific and (at the risk of opening a can of worms with easytiger) certainly not direct empirical evidence that processed meat causes cancer, any studies that find a direct link seems to be contradicted by the next study that doesn't. There is also likely a wide range of sources for epidemiological stats and consequently data quality varies widely.

I also alluded to what constitutes processed meat... Is black pudding processed meat if its made just with blood, fat and oats? I suspect at least fat would include it, but my point was more about the term meat, is it meat or processed animal products? On another angle of what is or isnt, is mince included? Google says no, so then are burgers?...Yes apparently!...so what if they are homemade from mince? If not, then what about homemade sausages...? You could go on all day. And then there is the specifics of which processed meat is worse... what's the sausage consumption rate to cancer v bacon for example...are butcher made sausages better?...how do you know its not just deli meats?...etc... etc

Now there should be no issue for labeling something like smoking as cancer causing without cause and effect evidence as it doesnt really provide any other form of health benefit and it is off the charts in terms of being a carcinogen in comparison to processed meat. Food tho does provide other health benefits, so there is a chance that you could be encouraging some people to deprive themselves of nutrition that they might not get which opens the door to other diseases. Also by making a statement like they have could seriously impact livelihoods connected to producing those foods, and with the evidence as vague as it seems that's a pretty serious thing to be doing.

The WHO's lack of consensus about sugar is another elephant in the room, but its not specifically part of this equation so to go off on the WHO inconsistencies and limitations would be playing the man. But I do suspect trade diplomacy plays a massive role in their decisions

My personal advice would be to stay away from processed foods as much as possible, and while admittedly it might not be practical to do this, use the rule of the more processed the food, the further you should stay away. Stay away from the xanthan gum (bacteria feces), titanium dioxide, and those nasty nitrates, also if it doesn't go off,  don't eat it!

Simple one word answer to title of this thread: Weight

Quote from: T Fearon on October 29, 2015, 07:00:45 AM
Simple one word answer to title of this thread: Weight

What? Weight is the cause of obesity!

Can you back that up with a link or something?

You may be the first person to ever link the two, so I think we need some evidence please.