People from the 6 counties (our wee country)

[Nally Stand]

The planters became Irish long ago, they've just decided to back-pedal after this partition business and say "well actually we were Ulstermen/Northern Irish/British/Ulster-Scots/Scotch-Irish all along, you know."  And one of the surest signs that someone is telling a lie is their inability to keep their story straight, as you can see from the multitude of replies you get from them when asked the simple question "what are you?"  That's why you get ten different answers...

As I previously stated, the "multitude of replies" stems from the fact that Ulster protestants / unionsists are not a homogeneous group of people.

"Homogeneous" 

Unable to understand what you are or whether you live in a "country", a "nation", a "state", a "province", a "region" etc etc... and feeling like you are Irish, but also British, but also northern Irish but also an Ulsterman, and "even an Englishman" (to quote EG) does not to me seem like the identity of a simply non-homogeneous group of people, but rather a group of people with an identity crisis.

[02]

How exactly have you personally experienced this so-called general apathy from the majority of people in the republic? As a 31 year old what year or years did you feel the support of the republic was vital to you personally? What exactly would you have liked or expected from the majority of people from the republic when their support was vital? Mobilisation of a peoples army from the republic? invasion of the North? Civil War?

Ireland routinely takes an active part in UN peacekeeping forces, when their fellow Irish men and women were being killed they didn't even lobby to intervene to protect those people.

What part of the republic did you live in where you observed this so-called 'amazing phenomenon'?

I didn't have to live there to observe that people in general in the late 80s were driving around in modest cars and were building modest houses - whereas by the 00s this situation had changed dramatically, clearly living beyond their means on borrowed money just to keep up the Jones'.  NI was not immune from this crazy capitalism and people there too bought into it, but it was more pronounced in the ROI. 

[Evil Genius]

Hell, I'm even an "Englishman" whenever the Ashes are being played (though "Irish" once more when beating England in the Cricket World Cup!)

WTF Are you parents English, were you born in England? Otherwise this is the only one I cannot get my head around.

You might have enlarged and emboldened the complete sentence, i.e. I support England in Test Cricket, and considering I have lived in England for years, I have no problem in considering myself "English" when the Test team is playing Australia or India or whoever.

But if you still can't get your head around that, perhaps you might ask eg Eoin Morgan or Ed Joyce for further explanation...

[deiseach]

You might have enlarged and emboldened the complete sentence, i.e. I support England in Test Cricket, and considering I have lived in England for years, I have no problem in considering myself "English" when the Test team is playing Australia or India or whoever.

But if you still can't get your head around that, perhaps you might ask eg Eoin Morgan or Ed Joyce for further explanation...

I support England in Test cricket. I still don't feel English even in those moments, any more than I feel English when I support Liverpool

[sammymaguire]

This wee thread is turning into a cracking little debate.

I personally classify myself as a proud Irishman from Fermanagh. My opinion is that the Brits have no place as a ruling body on this island, although stating that, the state of the Northern Irish economy is alot better than that in the Republic and I would not be too happy with those in power down south taking up the reins and the cost of living is clear seen with a bar of chocolate costing 60p in Enniskillen and 20 miles away its about 20-30% more expensive in euro...

[deiseach]

This wee thread is turning into a cracking little debate.

I personally classify myself as a proud Irishman from Fermanagh. My opinion is that the Brits have no place as a ruling body on this island, although stating that, the state of the Northern Irish economy is alot better than that in the Republic and I would not be too happy with those in power down south taking up the reins and the cost of living is clear seen with a bar of chocolate costing 60p in Enniskillen and 20 miles away its about 20-30% more expensive in euro...

You hate the Crown but love the half-crown

[seafoid]

I feel sorry for England and poor muintir Shasana. 

[Evil Genius]

Firstly, not sure if I like what seems to be your derogatory use of the term "planter".  Lest we forget, many non-planter "Gaels" were also blow-ins to these shores over the centuries.  In addition, just because protestants / unionists are not homoegeneous / come from different religious denominations / possess the ability to use independent thought, is this necessarily a bad thing?

Yes. If they'd drop their delusions of "otherness" from their fellow Irishmen then the political situation on the island would be a whole lot more stable, wouldn't you say?

Says a devotee of the Gaelic  Athletic Association.

Or have you never wondered why it wasn't called the "Irish Athletic Association"?

In other words, separation or alienation work both ways. Or as Gerry Adams once pronounced at a SF Ard Fheis: "Unionists are an Irish national minority, a religio/political minority, with minority rights not majority ones."

I have absolutely no problem in proclaiming my Irishness, but neither will I accept that the only true form of Irishness is the one prescribed by scumbags like Adams - even if he does have a Planter name 

[lynchbhoy]

isnt that a bit like considering yourself a 'jedi' ?
ie a nice but fanciful notion !!

I don't think it's fanciful. It's been in existence for 90 years, I can see how people might become attached to it.

fanciful as in it isn't a 'country' !!

[Evil Genius]

That's why you get ten different answers when you ask ten different planters what they are, and some of them as individuals can't even give you a single answer, as EG demonstrated so beautifully with his magnificent example of confusion.

There you go again.
I may originally be of direct Planter stock on one side of my family, but that doesn't make me  a "Planter" any more than someone with eg the surname "Hume" or "Adams", nor does it give you the right to define me as such.
For with eg grandparents on the other side born and reared in Tipperary and Leitrim (neither a Plantation county), I am so much more than one, simplistic designation.

Nor do you have any case for claiming that I am "confused". Identity and Nationality are often complex issues and I like to think I have both the self-awareness and the self-confidence to find my own place within that complexity.

Whereas by contrast, I often find that those who cling most determinedly to a fixed and unyielding position, which brooks no challenge, subtlety or nuance, are actually concealing a deeper obtuseness and insecurity, such that they dare  not admit that these things are never "black and white".

[seafoid]

These threads are a laugh. The only thing that can bring the 32 counties together on this board seems to be golf.
I am hitting the drives 30 yards to the left but was raised a Presbyterian in Wicklow. What should I do? 

[Applesisapples]

Interesting piece by Brian Feeney in yesterday's Irish News on the United Ireland poll. I would consider myself as a proud Irishman first and foremost and a proud Ulsterman secondly and given Sunday's result a not so proud Armaghman.

[Applesisapples]

These threads are a laugh. The only thing that can bring the 32 counties together on this board seems to be golf.
I am hitting the drives 30 yards to the left but was raised a Presbyterian in Wicklow. What should I do?

Become a Catholic and move to County Down.

[andoireabu]

These threads are a laugh. The only thing that can bring the 32 counties together on this board seems to be golf.
I am hitting the drives 30 yards to the left but was raised a Presbyterian in Wicklow. What should I do?

Get the f**k out of Wicklow!!

[Evil Genius]

My wife and I are both Belfast born. My nationality is Irish, not Northern Irish. My wife's nationality is British, not Northern Irish. Politically it's the one thing we agree on, that there's no such thing as 'Northern Irish' when it comes to nationality. That's a different thing from saying that there's no such place, or that it has no right to exist.

I don't think your wife is British, unless born on the bigger island, she would however be a UK Citizen. She would be ethnically British if her family originated from the bigger island.

Good grief! How many times does it have to be pointed out that the term "United Kingdomish" is not used; the adjective deriving from the United Kingdom is "British" i.e. any person born in any part of the UK is British.

I mean, it's hardly as if it's the only idiosyncracy in the language; for example, we still refer to the United Kingdom even when the Sovereign is female...