Man Utd Thread:

[trueblue1234]

I'm like a broken record but I need to keep saying this stuff because on the evidence of several previous posts people just don't get it.

The Glazers do not care if the team is successful. They care about making money. They have taken close to a billion pounds out of the club since they took it over. Think about that. £1,000,000,000. It's absolutely criminal.

They will take action based on "the market", i.e. what the masses out there (that buy products sold by them and their advertisers) think. They'll protect the brand and they realise that winning isn't required to do this. It's a soap opera and they'll throw in a "plot twist" like sacking a manager or buying a player or "thinking about a director of football" if and when the kerfuffle becomes too noisy.

The only resolution to this is a drastic one and one that is probably impossible - supporters need to boycott the club until they leave. Don't buy the jersey. Don't support the sponsors. Maybe even don't go to the games though I wouldn't be as strong on that. It's the only answer. So rather than direct your ire at a club legend caught in a hopeless position, try to address the root cause. #sackwoodward #luhg

I think their hand may be forced. The commercial money will only keep on rolling in as long as the business is semi-competitive. At the minute I'm sure sponsors, emerging fans etc are looking elsewhere as United continue to be uninspiring. If they continue on this slump they'll start to become less relevant.

And as MD pointed out in the Liverpool thread a few years ago,

Mediocrity is hard to shift

[Main Street]

Hypothetically speaking if the Glazers/Woodward & Ole all went could any manger do anything with this team?

Klopp? Pep?

The issue with Solksjaer is that there is no track record of success at anything approaching an elite level and very few signs in the actual job so far to suggest that he COULD build something.

Klopp had a lot of rebuilding to do at Liverpool, but there were definite signs of progress all the way through, even in his first partial season. That, the quality of the attacking game he was instituting, and his track record, bought him a lot of time and patience with the vast majority of Liverpool fans. That wasn't any guarantee that Liverpool would arrive where they are now, but the solid steps he was taking were there for all to see, despite the idiotic bollocks (even this time last year) from some quarters that "he needs to win a trophy... any trophy".

Any manager is a crapshoot and United have a lot of problems to solve which have certainly made his job harder, but, to me anyway, there is nothing there to suggest Solksjaer could be that man. It all comes down to whether or not United want to leave the project in his hands, or get in someone with a CV a bit more suited to building an elite team back up.

Klopp had from October his first term, not partial, he had 30 games, and Liverpool finished 8th, 2 places lower than the previous season.  I would say his track record/reputation indeed bought him time, as fans wouldn't have been too pleased with that. 

As for Ole, that again is the question, do we trust him with the guts of 2 years to right the wrongs?
Van Gaal, an established manager, won the champions league, la liga, Bundesliga and brought Holland to third place at a world cup had two years and was underwhelming.  So judging Ole's lack of experience as reasoning for his failures isn't as straightforward as that. 
In all honesty, a 4th place finish is the bare minimum expected from any United team, and that may save his bacon.

You leave out the parts of that season where Liverpool lost the league cup final to City on penalties, beat United in the UEFA Cup, had that wonderful comeback win against Dortmund, started scoring goals left, right and centre, and then shelved the league to prepare for the UEFA cup final, a game where the squad problems obviously came home to roost.

To dismiss that first season as merely an unsatisfactory 8th spot finish is dishonest. There were plenty of high points that year, and the positive steps were there for all to see.

And I didn't say Solksjaer's lack of experience is why he might fail. I'm saying that the lack of a track record is why putting faith in him eventually succeeding is an act of blind faith. There's a difference.

Aside from Klopp's coaching ability, he inherited some very good players  and the club enacted an almost perfect transfer policy in the first 2 seasons, adding 4 or 5 top class players at zero cost and  following the success on the field which allowed  a massive spend in the 3rd season to add even more class. The 8 or so big transfers have been carefully and astutely targeted.
Klopp and Liverpool are on a roll, it's hard to see that happening at Man U, perhaps it could happen with a manager like Rodgers, fresh but experienced and with coaching ability.

[Muck Savage]

Only city have spend more than United in the transfer market over the past 5 years, that does not tell me the Glazers don't care about success. Arguably the United three best players this year have been home grown. You can say that the Glazers are clueless, down know what they are doing on the football side and a big portion of that is Woodward, but with over 500M spent on players not caring about success is probably not the cause of the problems.
The scouting process or whoever makes the decisions on who to buy is a bigger portion of the problem. They have spent a lot of money on players not up to the standard needed or at least not performing.
On the manager and players - When you look at Liverpool, Leicester city etc. and you see how hard their players work for 90+ mins so you have to questions wether OGS is good enough with getting the players to play effectively together. They have played the same system (4-2-3-1) for a long time and it really is hit of miss so why not change things around. I don't think OGS is tactically strong enough for the job, he's not a great motivator and really seems to lack emotion when they lose. He has been unlucky with key players injured but he's not the answer.
The only thing I fear is that he will get fired, nothing else changes in the club in terms or recruitment/scouting process and we are back here in 18 months again. Woodward needs to go, OGS needs to go also.

[magpie seanie]

No offence MS but you have zero room to be giving people advice about not directing their spite at the manager who is caught in a hopeless position, the vitriol you directed towards Mourinho makes you out to be a complete hyprocrite. Or completely stupid.

No offence?? Are you calling me a hypocrite or completely stupid in a nice way or something? 

People won't like me revisiting this as my position has been crystal clear but I feel I have to do so now.

Mourinho should never have been hired by Manchester United. I was consistent on this long before he was appointed. He simply was not a fit for the club and his conduct throughout his career and at his previous job were that of a sc**bag. While in the job he was consistently backed in the transfer market and his moves were largely disastrous. When he didn't get backed after wasting so much money he threw the toys out of the pram and stopped doing his job. He made a bad situation much worse. He consistently got into trouble with officials, the FA and publicly called out and humiliated players. It now appears at his current club that he is already losing the dressing room.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a different story. Some of his interview comments are cringy but I wouldn't get too hung up on that (managers don't tell the truth, they're speaking to their players). The defending is not good enough and should have been fixed. However he has bought well, improved several players considerably and conducted himself impeccably in difficult circumstances.

I hope after this explanation you will retract your comments. Thank you.

[Keyser soze]

No offence MS but you have zero room to be giving people advice about not directing their spite at the manager who is caught in a hopeless position, the vitriol you directed towards Mourinho makes you out to be a complete hyprocrite. Or completely stupid.

No offence?? Are you calling me a hypocrite or completely stupid in a nice way or something? 

People won't like me revisiting this as my position has been crystal clear but I feel I have to do so now.

Mourinho should never have been hired by Manchester United. I was consistent on this long before he was appointed. He simply was not a fit for the club and his conduct throughout his career and at his previous job were that of a sc**bag. While in the job he was consistently backed in the transfer market and his moves were largely disastrous. When he didn't get backed after wasting so much money he threw the toys out of the pram and stopped doing his job. He made a bad situation much worse. He consistently got into trouble with officials, the FA and publicly called out and humiliated players. It now appears at his current club that he is already losing the dressing room.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a different story. Some of his interview comments are cringy but I wouldn't get too hung up on that (managers don't tell the truth, they're speaking to their players). The defending is not good enough and should have been fixed. However he has bought well, improved several players considerably and conducted himself impeccably in difficult circumstances.

I hope after this explanation you will retract your comments. Thank you.

So what you're saying that is that Mourinho bought bad players had the team playing crap and not challenging and deserved the sack, but that Woodward is now in charge of signings and therefore Ole should not be held responsible for the team being crap and having the worst run of results since god knows when.

Can't think of anyone who got in more trouble with officials FA etc than Fergie.... and there was plenty of players he gave the boot to. 

[Look-Up!]

Utd have spent plenty of money. Financial backing to me hasn't been a problem.
They've made a few big mistakes in the hiring process. Signing Sanchez. Hiring OGS. Letting Lukaku go without a replacement. Hiring Mourinho and not backing him (some will say he cooked his goose signing Sanchez. I do not believe this was his doing based solely on my opinion).
A few important positions have a huge effect on a club. Look at Klopp. People talk about all the players he brought in but the real transformation started since the GK and CH. Before that the GK situation and defense was a real nightmare for the club and undoing some of their brilliant attacking play.
There are no mug teams in the PL. If you pass up too many scoring chances you will get beat, even by the lesser teams. Conceding is a fact of life but is only compounded at the other end. CF is a massive position, a leading position. In terms of hold up play, taking pressure off defense, roughing up and getting roughed up by the opposition big men, bringing others into play and dealing with the pressure and physical demands of being expected to score every week. It takes a brute of a man to do this at a top club. Utd let their brute go and went with unproven kids. Blame Woodward, the owner, the bean counters blah blah blah but OGS is in charge of footballing matters and let this happen. It was his job to kick up a stink and impress on non footballing executive men last summer that this is a non runner for a big club.
So I don't know how people can say a world class manager wouldn't do things different or make a difference. To me it looks simpler and all the bed wetting I hear in the media of clear-outs, spending another billion etc is a bit OTT. There's over half a billion of footballing talent there already. Get a top class manager in, get a bloody centre forward, get a formation that kinda works and then see what signings are needed and who is surplus.

[Taylor]

Utd have spent plenty of money. Financial backing to me hasn't been a problem.
They've made a few big mistakes in the hiring process. Signing Sanchez. Hiring OGS. Letting Lukaku go without a replacement. Hiring Mourinho and not backing him (some will say he cooked his goose signing Sanchez. I do not believe this was his doing based solely on my opinion).
A few important positions have a huge effect on a club. Look at Klopp. People talk about all the players he brought in but the real transformation started since the GK and CH. Before that the GK situation and defense was a real nightmare for the club and undoing some of their brilliant attacking play.
There are no mug teams in the PL. If you pass up too many scoring chances you will get beat, even by the lesser teams. Conceding is a fact of life but is only compounded at the other end. CF is a massive position, a leading position. In terms of hold up play, taking pressure off defense, roughing up and getting roughed up by the opposition big men, bringing others into play and dealing with the pressure and physical demands of being expected to score every week. It takes a brute of a man to do this at a top club. Utd let their brute go and went with unproven kids. Blame Woodward, the owner, the bean counters blah blah blah but OGS is in charge of footballing matters and let this happen. It was his job to kick up a stink and impress on non footballing executive men last summer that this is a non runner for a big club.
So I don't know how people can say a world class manager wouldn't do things different or make a difference. To me it looks simpler and all the bed wetting I hear in the media of clear-outs, spending another billion etc is a bit OTT. There's over half a billion of footballing talent there already. Get a top class manager in, get a bloody centre forward, get a formation that kinda works and then see what signings are needed and who is surplus.

Man City or Liverpool dont have a player like this and seem to be doing ok?

[Maiden1]

Any time a manager says they are 'down to the bare bones' or that they are 2 players short should raise alarm bells.  Klopp got Liverpool to the champions league final before he signed Allison and VVD.  Alex Ferguson won his last league title with Welbeck up front.  Unless they sign a player like Messi or Neymar a new signing will probably only improve the team a little.  Letting players like Lukaku, Smalling, Young etc. go and not considering Rashford might pick up an injury or be fatigued with a long season seems like a mistake right now.  They have spent about 1 billion pounds since Ferguson left, the Glazers probably want to see how Ole gets on with the players he has got before buying a lot of new players.

[Look-Up!]

Utd have spent plenty of money. Financial backing to me hasn't been a problem.
They've made a few big mistakes in the hiring process. Signing Sanchez. Hiring OGS. Letting Lukaku go without a replacement. Hiring Mourinho and not backing him (some will say he cooked his goose signing Sanchez. I do not believe this was his doing based solely on my opinion).
A few important positions have a huge effect on a club. Look at Klopp. People talk about all the players he brought in but the real transformation started since the GK and CH. Before that the GK situation and defense was a real nightmare for the club and undoing some of their brilliant attacking play.
There are no mug teams in the PL. If you pass up too many scoring chances you will get beat, even by the lesser teams. Conceding is a fact of life but is only compounded at the other end. CF is a massive position, a leading position. In terms of hold up play, taking pressure off defense, roughing up and getting roughed up by the opposition big men, bringing others into play and dealing with the pressure and physical demands of being expected to score every week. It takes a brute of a man to do this at a top club. Utd let their brute go and went with unproven kids. Blame Woodward, the owner, the bean counters blah blah blah but OGS is in charge of footballing matters and let this happen. It was his job to kick up a stink and impress on non footballing executive men last summer that this is a non runner for a big club.
So I don't know how people can say a world class manager wouldn't do things different or make a difference. To me it looks simpler and all the bed wetting I hear in the media of clear-outs, spending another billion etc is a bit OTT. There's over half a billion of footballing talent there already. Get a top class manager in, get a bloody centre forward, get a formation that kinda works and then see what signings are needed and who is surplus.

Man City or Liverpool dont have a player like this and seem to be doing ok?

Yes they do. They might not be big burly brutes but they are freaks. You cannot hold up and turn PL defenders without exceptional physical attributes and you cannot last a season without exceptional physical conditioning.

[gallsman]

The only resolution to this is a drastic one and one that is probably impossible - supporters need to boycott the club until they leave. Don't buy the jersey. Don't support the sponsors. Maybe even don't go to the games though I wouldn't be as strong on that. It's the only answer. So rather than direct your ire at a club legend caught in a hopeless position, try to address the root cause. #sackwoodward #luhg

Might I suggest a few purchases of some green and gold scarves?

[gallsman]

There was a news report there over past few days the share price had went up by a third, just googled the share price - doesn't look like it's that much but its been steadily rising since November (to a slight dip today...oddly).

It was $15 something in October. It was $20 something last week. That's a third.

[Maroon Manc]

United's share price was $25 about 18 months ago. Its not a great indicator anyway, only a very small % of the clubs share are held on the stock exchange.

[Taylor]

Utd have spent plenty of money. Financial backing to me hasn't been a problem.
They've made a few big mistakes in the hiring process. Signing Sanchez. Hiring OGS. Letting Lukaku go without a replacement. Hiring Mourinho and not backing him (some will say he cooked his goose signing Sanchez. I do not believe this was his doing based solely on my opinion).
A few important positions have a huge effect on a club. Look at Klopp. People talk about all the players he brought in but the real transformation started since the GK and CH. Before that the GK situation and defense was a real nightmare for the club and undoing some of their brilliant attacking play.
There are no mug teams in the PL. If you pass up too many scoring chances you will get beat, even by the lesser teams. Conceding is a fact of life but is only compounded at the other end. CF is a massive position, a leading position. In terms of hold up play, taking pressure off defense, roughing up and getting roughed up by the opposition big men, bringing others into play and dealing with the pressure and physical demands of being expected to score every week. It takes a brute of a man to do this at a top club. Utd let their brute go and went with unproven kids. Blame Woodward, the owner, the bean counters blah blah blah but OGS is in charge of footballing matters and let this happen. It was his job to kick up a stink and impress on non footballing executive men last summer that this is a non runner for a big club.
So I don't know how people can say a world class manager wouldn't do things different or make a difference. To me it looks simpler and all the bed wetting I hear in the media of clear-outs, spending another billion etc is a bit OTT. There's over half a billion of footballing talent there already. Get a top class manager in, get a bloody centre forward, get a formation that kinda works and then see what signings are needed and who is surplus.

Man City or Liverpool dont have a player like this and seem to be doing ok?

Yes they do. They might not be big burly brutes but they are freaks. You cannot hold up and turn PL defenders without exceptional physical attributes and you cannot last a season without exceptional physical conditioning.

Ok so the top two teams in the PL dont have big brutes so to be one of the top teams you dont have to go down that route.

Exceptional physical condition should be a given at that level

[Maroon Manc]

I think what people underestimate with Klopp and the patience to build is that the owners looked at the situation and then modified their approach. They saw that Klopp needed assistance and got Michael Edwards in. Boom....success. Let's not forget that less than 10 years ago the club was on the verge of collapse and we had Roy Hodgson as manager. The problems in United won't be solved by sacking Ole but call a spade a spade they're not helped with him there either. He is out if his depth but will anyone touch it now even if he is sacked?  I don't know ...

Perhaps I'm been naive but when United have everyone fit its a decent side, its not good enough to be challenging for top honours but it would be good enough to finish top 4. We've seen evidence of that in some of the performances before xmas when everyone was fit apart from Pogba. The issue is lack of strength in depth, there isn't any which is making things look worse then they actually are. If United had a good creative midfielder or even a fit Pogba this season I'd have expected us to have several more points. United have 21 points from 18 games against teams outside of top 6, thats pathetic.

Klopp has performed miracles in the transfer market probably similar to what Fergie did around 90/91/92 when he signed Irwin, Kanchelskis, Schmeichel & Cantona for about £3.5m who all went on to be the best player in league in their position just like what Klopp has done with Robertson, Mane & Salah. He's signed 3 players for about £70m that are now world class, in addition to that nearly every signing he's made has paid off which is very rare.

[tiempo]

I think what people underestimate with Klopp and the patience to build is that the owners looked at the situation and then modified their approach. They saw that Klopp needed assistance and got Michael Edwards in. Boom....success. Let's not forget that less than 10 years ago the club was on the verge of collapse and we had Roy Hodgson as manager. The problems in United won't be solved by sacking Ole but call a spade a spade they're not helped with him there either. He is out if his depth but will anyone touch it now even if he is sacked?  I don't know ...

Perhaps I'm been naive but when United have everyone fit its a decent side, its not good enough to be challenging for top honours but it would be good enough to finish top 4. We've seen evidence of that in some of the performances before xmas when everyone was fit apart from Pogba. The issue is lack of strength in depth, there isn't any which is making things look worse then they actually are. If United had a good creative midfielder or even a fit Pogba this season I'd have expected us to have several more points. United have 21 points from 18 games against teams outside of top 6, thats pathetic.

Klopp has performed miracles in the transfer market probably similar to what Fergie did around 90/91/92 when he signed Irwin, Kanchelskis, Schmeichel & Cantona for about £3.5m who all went on to be the best player in league in their position just like what Klopp has done with Robertson, Mane & Salah. He's signed 3 players for about £70m that are now world class, in addition to that nearly every signing he's made has paid off which is very rare.

Agree with this. Ole not the answer and the process is overwhelmingly flawed but its a top 4 team when fit, hes been a bit unlucky with injuries, he's gradually getting rid of the dead wood, I think he's in position to carry out the guts of this cull before being culled himself and a vibrant new manager installed with a better overall plan and process, if they can find a vibrant new manager that is.