Ulster Club IFC/JFC 2023

[Armagh18]

I'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.

That's the way Armagh was for years, we left it behind. The current format is what, maybe 8-10 years on the go? (I'm really not sure)

Think our system works really well- 8 team league divisions with the a/b split leaves teams at a similar level and less hammerings and still having 2 up and 2 down means theres less chance of dead rubbers towards end of the league.

Would prefer a straight knock out championship to the group stages though but don't mind teams getting those extra few games so see the reason for it.

[SouthOfThe Bann]

I'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.

That's the way Armagh was for years, we left it behind. The current format is what, maybe 8-10 years on the go? (I'm really not sure)

Think our system works really well- 8 team league divisions with the a/b split leaves teams at a similar level and less hammerings and still having 2 up and 2 down means theres less chance of dead rubbers towards end of the league.

Would prefer a straight knock out championship to the group stages though but don't mind teams getting those extra few games so see the reason for it.

I don't agree with this A/B crap. Your either division 1 or 2 or 3. Hurling leagues are split this way and no one gives a toss about them.

Best thing Inter County Gaelic football did was go to the 4 divisions, 10 or 15 years ago.

[Milltown Row2]

Why do Cavan have a league format in the first place? Are they just glorified friendlies?

So County players are removed from their clubs until Cavan are out of any tournament they are in?

Not that it matters and as I've said what Cavan do is what they are comfortable with, Kerry have been lambasted for years with their Championships and so on, so expect people to question how things are done and the results from it.

Championship is the only show in town in any county, yes others may link in league positions and so on, but no one remembers the league winners

I'd mentioned star games before and obviously thats not a thing in every county, but essentially star games are the only ones that county with regards to points in the league.

Star games will have the county players available due to the fixtures and timings between county games, these lads can play with their clubs so that the club (who bring these lads up from under age) play their best players and get some form ready for championship and allow managers to see their best 15

Must be handy for the managers during the year in Cavan with just a few Championship games to prepare for

[Ethan Tremblay]

How are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?

[SouthOfThe Bann]

Why do Cavan have a league format in the first place? Are they just glorified friendlies?

So County players are removed from their clubs until Cavan are out of any tournament they are in?

Not that it matters and as I've said what Cavan do is what they are comfortable with, Kerry have been lambasted for years with their Championships and so on, so expect people to question how things are done and the results from it.

Championship is the only show in town in any county, yes others may link in league positions and so on, but no one remembers the league winners

I'd mentioned star games before and obviously thats not a thing in every county, but essentially star games are the only ones that county with regards to points in the league.

Star games will have the county players available due to the fixtures and timings between county games, these lads can play with their clubs so that the club (who bring these lads up from under age) play their best players and get some form ready for championship and allow managers to see their best 15

Must be handy for the managers during the year in Cavan with just a few Championship games to prepare for

I wouldn't say league is treated like challenge games in Cavan but its not the same competition it was before the split season was brought in.

Teams with a large number of county players will struggle big time in the leagues in Cavan. But in fairness to the county board they have introduced a playoff system for the top 4 and bottom 4 for relegation and promotion. So this gives teams a chance to redeem themselves when they have all theire county players available. So you could lose all 12 or 13 games in the league but if you win your playoff you will stay up. Something similar to what Arva did.

Arva got promoted from Division 2 when they had only Ciaran Brady on the county panel now they have 3 or 4 on the panel and another 2-3 on the U20's so this makes them considerably weaker.

[SouthOfThe Bann]

How are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?

Bottom 4 in the championship table playoff and then the 2 losers playoff.

For example in Senior 8v12 and 9v10 then the two losers play each other.

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

It's really blowing my mind that people cannot grasp a non link between league and championship AND have to be told how teams get relegated from championship on top of that!

[Rossfan]

Education system up North?








🤪

[Armagh18]

I'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.

That's the way Armagh was for years, we left it behind. The current format is what, maybe 8-10 years on the go? (I'm really not sure)

Think our system works really well- 8 team league divisions with the a/b split leaves teams at a similar level and less hammerings and still having 2 up and 2 down means theres less chance of dead rubbers towards end of the league.

Would prefer a straight knock out championship to the group stages though but don't mind teams getting those extra few games so see the reason for it.

I don't agree with this A/B crap. Your either division 1 or 2 or 3. Hurling leagues are split this way and no one gives a toss about them.

Best thing Inter County Gaelic football did was go to the 4 divisions, 10 or 15 years ago.

works really well for us. For example the top 2 teams in Armagh league were Cross and Clann Eirean last year. 15/16 were Shane O'Neills and Grange. The bottom 2 are a lot closer to intermediate level than they would be to top of senior. Because the league is split into 8 instead of 16 Shanes and Grange were able to play teams closer to their own level and so were Cross and Clann Eireann. Gives more competitive and meaningful games imo.

[Dreadnought]

How are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?

1 up 1 down. Essentially the bottom 4 in the group stages play off in relegation semi finals, and then losers play relegation final when the Championship quarters, semi etc are ongoing. So overall loser relegated and replaced by below Championship winner. You have to win to move up, lose to move down

Only exception to this is when rejigging numbers, and the odd year you relegate 2 and so on. Covid also messed it here when none were relegated in 2020, but had a promotion, so 2 were relegated in 2021 and so on to rejig numbers across the 3 Championships

[intheknowhow]

How are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?

1 up 1 down. Essentially the bottom 4 in the group stages play off in relegation semi finals, and then losers play relegation final when the Championship quarters, semi etc are ongoing. So overall loser relegated and replaced by below Championship winner. You have to win to move up, lose to move down

Only exception to this is when rejigging numbers, and the odd year you relegate 2 and so on. Covid also messed it here when none were relegated in 2020, but had a promotion, so 2 were relegated in 2021 and so on to rejig numbers across the 3 Championships

Your league is a farce so and handy for outside managers to make a few bob. Mess about in the league and win an odd game in champ and your grand.

Lose a few games in Monaghan and Tyrone in the league and your gone,you get found out pretty quick.

[Dreadnought]

Why do Cavan have a league format in the first place? Are they just glorified friendlies?

So County players are removed from their clubs until Cavan are out of any tournament they are in?

Not that it matters and as I've said what Cavan do is what they are comfortable with, Kerry have been lambasted for years with their Championships and so on, so expect people to question how things are done and the results from it.

Championship is the only show in town in any county, yes others may link in league positions and so on, but no one remembers the league winners

I'd mentioned star games before and obviously thats not a thing in every county, but essentially star games are the only ones that county with regards to points in the league.

Star games will have the county players available due to the fixtures and timings between county games, these lads can play with their clubs so that the club (who bring these lads up from under age) play their best players and get some form ready for championship and allow managers to see their best 15

Must be handy for the managers during the year in Cavan with just a few Championship games to prepare for

It's not challenge games, but has been devalued alright. It's still the bulk of of games per year for the 99%, the club player. And it is respected and played well. But it's not like before. The 12/13 games (except playoffs) are without county players. This is where the split season hasn't worked. At least before, post League on April and early May, County players were back and played games. The fact that after the inter county season finishes, there's no time for a proper club season. In Cavan at least, it's Championship time by early August. So League has suffered as a consequence. Hence why when the above say about League, it makes me roll my eyes as the 2 competitions couldn't be more different hence why we go by Championship only

[Look-Up!]

The League is hardly a friendly competition. Players who don't perform will not be in contention for a championship start. Winning a league is a nice feather for a manager so long as he doesn't flop come championship. Same as performing poorly in the league will either be forgiven if you go well in championship, or it will be used as a stick to further beat a manager with if he also performs poorly come championship. But this is all old news to any GAA fan. I think some on here are being deliberately disingenuous. 

And just on the unavailability of county players for league. "County player" is a bit of a stretch. Lads not within an ass's roar of a match day panel, basically anyone sniffing around a county panel will be kicked off it if they play club league. This is something I completely and utterly disagree with and really annoys me but was introduced by, funnily enough a Tyrone man and his Monaghan side kick. Then the new man after them kept it going.

[Armagh18]

The League is hardly a friendly competition. Players who don't perform will not be in contention for a championship start. Winning a league is a nice feather for a manager so long as he doesn't flop come championship. Same as performing poorly in the league will either be forgiven if you go well in championship, or it will be used as a stick to further beat a manager with if he also performs poorly come championship. But this is all old news to any GAA fan. I think some on here are being deliberately disingenuous. 

And just on the unavailability of county players for league. "County player" is a bit of a stretch. Lads not within an ass's roar of a match day panel, basically anyone sniffing around a county panel will be kicked off it if they play club league. This is something I completely and utterly disagree with and really annoys me but was introduced by, funnily enough a Tyrone man and his Monaghan side kick. Then the new man after them kept it going.

Annoys me as well. Would do those lads far better to be getting football every week instead of managers sickening them with training

[ranch]

I'm not a Cavan man but I actually think the way they organise their championship and don't link it to another competition is the best way to do it. To progress from junior to intermediate championship you should have to win the junior championship. The leagues should be a totally separate competition, especially now with the split season. I'm from Armagh and don't like our current system at all, but I accept I'm in the minority. We should also accept every county organises their competitions differently and leave them to it.

That's the way Armagh was for years, we left it behind. The current format is what, maybe 8-10 years on the go? (I'm really not sure)

Think our system works really well- 8 team league divisions with the a/b split leaves teams at a similar level and less hammerings and still having 2 up and 2 down means theres less chance of dead rubbers towards end of the league.

Would prefer a straight knock out championship to the group stages though but don't mind teams getting those extra few games so see the reason for it.

I don't agree with this A/B crap. Your either division 1 or 2 or 3. Hurling leagues are split this way and no one gives a toss about them.

Best thing Inter County Gaelic football did was go to the 4 divisions, 10 or 15 years ago.

works really well for us. For example the top 2 teams in Armagh league were Cross and Clann Eirean last year. 15/16 were Shane O'Neills and Grange. The bottom 2 are a lot closer to intermediate level than they would be to top of senior. Because the league is split into 8 instead of 16 Shanes and Grange were able to play teams closer to their own level and so were Cross and Clann Eireann. Gives more competitive and meaningful games imo.

I'd question how well it works given that clubs are being relegated and punished for having county players. If the league and championships weren't linked I'd be okay with it but it's part of the reason a club like Cullyhanna are keen to change the set up now. It also affects the seedings come the group stage of the championship too which is something that should be tidied up. I'd prefer a system like the one in Cavan as I think the championship should dictate what championship you play in the following year, but each to their own.

Ps - didn't Madden play CE in a league decider in 2023, with Cross out of the running by the final game?

PPS- to answer an earlier query, 2011 was the final year of the old league set up. Over the course of the next 3 years the championships and leagues were aligned, negatively impacting a club like Forkhill for example who probably would have won a junior championship, but instead found themselves at intermediate championship level, followed by senior championship, as they kept going on good runs in the league (before A/B was brought in, this was originally only at Junior league level). I know a few Forkhill lads who weren't happy about it. The old set up probably would have seen them reach div 2 with a junior championship along the way, and a crack at the intermediate for a few years, before probably finding their level at division 3 again.