My daughter is part of a squad of 27! At her age group it is 13 a side. She is the 11 year old in under 12. Tonight 22 turned up that would have left 9 subs to be satisfied (if all 27 turn up there would be 14 subs). She played one quarter and a five minute spell later on. This is going to be the gig for the year. She is already not getting enough game time to bring her on. Thinking of pulling her from the club for the season and joining a Town team that would have a 'B' team. Any other solutions?
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 08, 2019, 08:41:33 PM
My daughter is part of a squad of 27! At her age group it is 13 a side. She is the 11 year old in under 12. Tonight 22 turned up that would have left 9 subs to be satisfied (if all 27 turn up there would be 14 subs). She played one quarter and a five minute spell later on. This is going to be the gig for the year. She is already not getting enough game time to bring her on. Thinking of pulling her from the club for the season and joining a Town team that would have a 'B' team. Any other solutions?
How about you offering to take a "B" team in the club you're already at.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 08, 2019, 08:41:33 PM
My daughter is part of a squad of 27! At her age group it is 13 a side. She is the 11 year old in under 12. Tonight 22 turned up that would have left 9 subs to be satisfied (if all 27 turn up there would be 14 subs). She played one quarter and a five minute spell later on. This is going to be the gig for the year. She is already not getting enough game time to bring her on. Thinking of pulling her from the club for the season and joining a Town team that would have a 'B' team. Any other solutions?
Do they play the players 'on the age' or do they play the best players irrespective of age?
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 08, 2019, 08:41:33 PM
My daughter is part of a squad of 27! At her age group it is 13 a side. She is the 11 year old in under 12. Tonight 22 turned up that would have left 9 subs to be satisfied (if all 27 turn up there would be 14 subs). She played one quarter and a five minute spell later on. This is going to be the gig for the year. She is already not getting enough game time to bring her on. Thinking of pulling her from the club for the season and joining a Town team that would have a 'B' team. Any other solutions?
If there are 27 players your club should have 2 teams entered. At under 12 level i'm sure there would be no problem with playing one of the teams 11-a-side or something similar if need be. Getting everyone plenty game time is the most important thing.
We have this issue in our club. Between U12s and U11s we have 40 players. We have entered 3 teams in football, and 2 teams in hurling (as the hurling will be during summer holidays). Our teams play 13 a side, 13 a side and 11 a side.
All our U12s are on our 'top' team, which means we won't win any championship, but all our u12s get games at an appropriate level for them. We don't, as a rule, put U11s onto the 'top' team, even through some of our U11s would be better than some u12s. The rationale for this is that we want lads to play with their friends, and we know your average U12 might be your best minor.
The exception to the rule we have, with the individual players in mind, is if a player is completely out of his depth at a certain level, we would talk to his parents and him about going back to a team below, so he can be at a level where he feels he can contribute and not be embarrassed.
Likewise if an U11 is too good for his level, and his development is stunted because he is not challenged, we would suggest moving him up.
Those decisions are never made with a view to winning a championship though. We want to win every game we play, but not at the expense of long term development and player retention.
This approach is not universally liked in the club, as some people feel we should play our strongest team at the top, regardless of age. I'm not sure there's a right answer here, but I'm happy we are trying to do the right thing by our players. I'll be at a meeting tonight where we will be challenged again regarding this approach.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2019, 09:06:06 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 08, 2019, 08:41:33 PM
My daughter is part of a squad of 27! At her age group it is 13 a side. She is the 11 year old in under 12. Tonight 22 turned up that would have left 9 subs to be satisfied (if all 27 turn up there would be 14 subs). She played one quarter and a five minute spell later on. This is going to be the gig for the year. She is already not getting enough game time to bring her on. Thinking of pulling her from the club for the season and joining a Town team that would have a 'B' team. Any other solutions?
How about you offering to take a "B" team in the club you're already at.
That's the answer.
Would echo the sentiments of the posters with regards to having a B team.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 09, 2019, 10:33:39 AM
We have this issue in our club. Between U12s and U11s we have 40 players. We have entered 3 teams in football, and 2 teams in hurling (as the hurling will be during summer holidays). Our teams play 13 a side, 13 a side and 11 a side.
All our U12s are on our 'top' team, which means we won't win any championship, but all our u12s get games at an appropriate level for them. We don't, as a rule, put U11s onto the 'top' team, even through some of our U11s would be better than some u12s. The rationale for this is that we want lads to play with their friends, and we know your average U12 might be your best minor.
The exception to the rule we have, with the individual players in mind, is if a player is completely out of his depth at a certain level, we would talk to his parents and him about going back to a team below, so he can be at a level where he feels he can contribute and not be embarrassed.
Likewise if an U11 is too good for his level, and his development is stunted because he is not challenged, we would suggest moving him up.
Those decisions are never made with a view to winning a championship though. We want to win every game we play, but not at the expense of long term development and player retention.
This approach is not universally liked in the club, as some people feel we should play our strongest team at the top, regardless of age. I'm not sure there's a right answer here, but I'm happy we are trying to do the right thing by our players. I'll be at a meeting tonight where we will be challenged again regarding this approach.
Stand firm. Your approach is absolutely the best one.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 09, 2019, 10:33:39 AM
We have this issue in our club. Between U12s and U11s we have 40 players. We have entered 3 teams in football, and 2 teams in hurling (as the hurling will be during summer holidays). Our teams play 13 a side, 13 a side and 11 a side.
All our U12s are on our 'top' team, which means we won't win any championship, but all our u12s get games at an appropriate level for them. We don't, as a rule, put U11s onto the 'top' team, even through some of our U11s would be better than some u12s. The rationale for this is that we want lads to play with their friends, and we know your average U12 might be your best minor.
The exception to the rule we have, with the individual players in mind, is if a player is completely out of his depth at a certain level, we would talk to his parents and him about going back to a team below, so he can be at a level where he feels he can contribute and not be embarrassed.
Likewise if an U11 is too good for his level, and his development is stunted because he is not challenged, we would suggest moving him up.
Those decisions are never made with a view to winning a championship though. We want to win every game we play, but not at the expense of long term development and player retention.
This approach is not universally liked in the club, as some people feel we should play our strongest team at the top, regardless of age. I'm not sure there's a right answer here, but I'm happy we are trying to do the right thing by our players. I'll be at a meeting tonight where we will be challenged again regarding this approach.
Love this whole post bar the bit about from people challenging this approach, they should FRO.
On the bit highlighted, have you thought about challenging them in different ways e.g. how when playing can they make their team mates better, work on developing their leadership qualities etc
Quote from: shark on April 09, 2019, 12:40:55 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 09, 2019, 10:33:39 AM
We have this issue in our club. Between U12s and U11s we have 40 players. We have entered 3 teams in football, and 2 teams in hurling (as the hurling will be during summer holidays). Our teams play 13 a side, 13 a side and 11 a side.
All our U12s are on our 'top' team, which means we won't win any championship, but all our u12s get games at an appropriate level for them. We don't, as a rule, put U11s onto the 'top' team, even through some of our U11s would be better than some u12s. The rationale for this is that we want lads to play with their friends, and we know your average U12 might be your best minor.
The exception to the rule we have, with the individual players in mind, is if a player is completely out of his depth at a certain level, we would talk to his parents and him about going back to a team below, so he can be at a level where he feels he can contribute and not be embarrassed.
Likewise if an U11 is too good for his level, and his development is stunted because he is not challenged, we would suggest moving him up.
Those decisions are never made with a view to winning a championship though. We want to win every game we play, but not at the expense of long term development and player retention.
This approach is not universally liked in the club, as some people feel we should play our strongest team at the top, regardless of age. I'm not sure there's a right answer here, but I'm happy we are trying to do the right thing by our players. I'll be at a meeting tonight where we will be challenged again regarding this approach.
Stand firm. Your approach is absolutely the best one.
Read an article last year on Dr Crokes. They have massive numbers underage so field a couple of teams of equal standard at every age group. Not an 'A' team of their strongest 15 then a 'B' team of their weaker 15. It mentioned they do not win an awful lot of underage competitions but have won 13 Senior Championships, 7 Munster's and 2 All-Ireland clubs so it's definitely done them no harm.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 09, 2019, 10:33:39 AM
We have this issue in our club. Between U12s and U11s we have 40 players. We have entered 3 teams in football, and 2 teams in hurling (as the hurling will be during summer holidays). Our teams play 13 a side, 13 a side and 11 a side.
All our U12s are on our 'top' team, which means we won't win any championship, but all our u12s get games at an appropriate level for them. We don't, as a rule, put U11s onto the 'top' team, even through some of our U11s would be better than some u12s. The rationale for this is that we want lads to play with their friends, and we know your average U12 might be your best minor.
The exception to the rule we have, with the individual players in mind, is if a player is completely out of his depth at a certain level, we would talk to his parents and him about going back to a team below, so he can be at a level where he feels he can contribute and not be embarrassed.
Likewise if an U11 is too good for his level, and his development is stunted because he is not challenged, we would suggest moving him up.
Those decisions are never made with a view to winning a championship though. We want to win every game we play, but not at the expense of long term development and player retention.
This approach is not universally liked in the club, as some people feel we should play our strongest team at the top, regardless of age. I'm not sure there's a right answer here, but I'm happy we are trying to do the right thing by our players. I'll be at a meeting tonight where we will be challenged again regarding this approach.
Absolutely it's the correct approach AZ. We do the exact same at those age levels also. We only start to tentatively progress towards an A team when we start to compete at Feile age level etc
Quote from: toby47 on April 09, 2019, 12:58:50 PM
Quote from: shark on April 09, 2019, 12:40:55 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 09, 2019, 10:33:39 AM
We have this issue in our club. Between U12s and U11s we have 40 players. We have entered 3 teams in football, and 2 teams in hurling (as the hurling will be during summer holidays). Our teams play 13 a side, 13 a side and 11 a side.
All our U12s are on our 'top' team, which means we won't win any championship, but all our u12s get games at an appropriate level for them. We don't, as a rule, put U11s onto the 'top' team, even through some of our U11s would be better than some u12s. The rationale for this is that we want lads to play with their friends, and we know your average U12 might be your best minor.
The exception to the rule we have, with the individual players in mind, is if a player is completely out of his depth at a certain level, we would talk to his parents and him about going back to a team below, so he can be at a level where he feels he can contribute and not be embarrassed.
Likewise if an U11 is too good for his level, and his development is stunted because he is not challenged, we would suggest moving him up.
Those decisions are never made with a view to winning a championship though. We want to win every game we play, but not at the expense of long term development and player retention.
This approach is not universally liked in the club, as some people feel we should play our strongest team at the top, regardless of age. I'm not sure there's a right answer here, but I'm happy we are trying to do the right thing by our players. I'll be at a meeting tonight where we will be challenged again regarding this approach.
Stand firm. Your approach is absolutely the best one.
Read an article last year on Dr Crokes. They have massive numbers underage so field a couple of teams of equal standard at every age group. Not an 'A' team of their strongest 15 then a 'B' team of their weaker 15. It mentioned they do not win an awful lot of underage competitions but have won 13 Senior Championships, 7 Munster's and 2 All-Ireland clubs so it's definitely done them no harm.
http://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2018/02/22/news/we-don-t-care-if-we-lose-ye-will-all-get-a-game-joe-kavanagh-on-nemo-s-famous-underage-policy-1261352/
Quote from: Maiden1 on April 09, 2019, 01:28:05 PM
Quote from: toby47 on April 09, 2019, 12:58:50 PM
Quote from: shark on April 09, 2019, 12:40:55 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 09, 2019, 10:33:39 AM
We have this issue in our club. Between U12s and U11s we have 40 players. We have entered 3 teams in football, and 2 teams in hurling (as the hurling will be during summer holidays). Our teams play 13 a side, 13 a side and 11 a side.
All our U12s are on our 'top' team, which means we won't win any championship, but all our u12s get games at an appropriate level for them. We don't, as a rule, put U11s onto the 'top' team, even through some of our U11s would be better than some u12s. The rationale for this is that we want lads to play with their friends, and we know your average U12 might be your best minor.
The exception to the rule we have, with the individual players in mind, is if a player is completely out of his depth at a certain level, we would talk to his parents and him about going back to a team below, so he can be at a level where he feels he can contribute and not be embarrassed.
Likewise if an U11 is too good for his level, and his development is stunted because he is not challenged, we would suggest moving him up.
Those decisions are never made with a view to winning a championship though. We want to win every game we play, but not at the expense of long term development and player retention.
This approach is not universally liked in the club, as some people feel we should play our strongest team at the top, regardless of age. I'm not sure there's a right answer here, but I'm happy we are trying to do the right thing by our players. I'll be at a meeting tonight where we will be challenged again regarding this approach.
Stand firm. Your approach is absolutely the best one.
Read an article last year on Dr Crokes. They have massive numbers underage so field a couple of teams of equal standard at every age group. Not an 'A' team of their strongest 15 then a 'B' team of their weaker 15. It mentioned they do not win an awful lot of underage competitions but have won 13 Senior Championships, 7 Munster's and 2 All-Ireland clubs so it's definitely done them no harm.
http://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2018/02/22/news/we-don-t-care-if-we-lose-ye-will-all-get-a-game-joe-kavanagh-on-nemo-s-famous-underage-policy-1261352/
Yep, Nemo a great example too. Of course, they have big numbers which helps. And unlike other duel clubs in Cork city they are football first, hurling second. But they don't win a whole lot underage - certainly nothing close to their record at adult level. Priority is keeping kids playing and understanding that all kids develop at different speeds.
I was born in the month of February. Had I been born two months earlier I am not sure if I would have played past the age of 14, as I would never have got sufficient playing time in the age group above me. I didn't grow until I was 16, and then improved (a small bit!). Thankfully my club has long since evolved to a development-first ethos.
Brilliant AZ, absolutely the right way
Handy when you're a big club and you've got 20 or 30 at each age group. You'll win you're share of Senior champs when you've the shear weight of numbers in your favour.
But I do agree all children no matter what ability should be given a game and picking the best out at such a young age sickens my hole. I see it so often.
You see of the 22 the last day - 8 played a full game. That leaves 14 doing a version of a revolving door for 5 places on the pitch for the game.
And there is a panel of 27! God help us when all those turn up some night!
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2019, 09:06:06 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 08, 2019, 08:41:33 PM
My daughter is part of a squad of 27! At her age group it is 13 a side. She is the 11 year old in under 12. Tonight 22 turned up that would have left 9 subs to be satisfied (if all 27 turn up there would be 14 subs). She played one quarter and a five minute spell later on. This is going to be the gig for the year. She is already not getting enough game time to bring her on. Thinking of pulling her from the club for the season and joining a Town team that would have a 'B' team. Any other solutions?
How about you offering to take a "B" team in the club you're already at.
There is not enough for a 'B' team. To have a B team with 13 a side you need a panel of about 34 or 36. I already have more than my share of sporting commitments as a coach and volunteer.
play 13 for one half, another 13 for the other half
only solution
invite other clubs in your pitch to play games and play 9 a side or 11 a side and field two teams
Quote from: trailer on April 09, 2019, 03:47:29 PM
Handy when you're a big club and you've got 20 or 30 at each age group. You'll win you're share of Senior champs when you've the shear weight of numbers in your favour.
But I do agree all children no matter what ability should be given a game and picking the best out at such a young age sickens my hole. I see it so often.
That's where you have to be strong. We take beatings off teams who are playing their best players in their top team, and that leads to pressures from inside the club. The county has a (very good) rule that every young lad who togs out for U12 championship must get at least a full half, and all substitutions take place at half time, barring injuries. However I know for a fact that some clubs (well regarded senior clubs) send out texts to their weaker players telling them to stay at home for certain games, so that they can minimise the number of substitutions they have to make. I've also had some clubs refuse to play 13 a side, because they want to dilute their weaker players influence on the game. If I turn up with 13, and the other team has 13, I'm happy to play 13 a side with no subs, so everyone plays the full game. I have had opponents refuse to do this, preferring to stick with the 2 subs (11 a side) so that they can bring off two weaker lads and bring on two more. Very amusing at times actually.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 09, 2019, 05:10:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 09, 2019, 03:47:29 PM
Handy when you're a big club and you've got 20 or 30 at each age group. You'll win you're share of Senior champs when you've the shear weight of numbers in your favour.
But I do agree all children no matter what ability should be given a game and picking the best out at such a young age sickens my hole. I see it so often.
That's where you have to be strong. We take beatings off teams who are playing their best players in their top team, and that leads to pressures from inside the club. The county has a (very good) rule that every young lad who togs out for U12 championship must get at least a full half, and all substitutions take place at half time, barring injuries. However I know for a fact that some clubs (well regarded senior clubs) send out texts to their weaker players telling them to stay at home for certain games, so that they can minimise the number of substitutions they have to make. I've also had some clubs refuse to play 13 a side, because they want to dilute their weaker players influence on the game. If I turn up with 13, and the other team has 13, I'm happy to play 13 a side with no subs, so everyone plays the full game. I have had opponents refuse to do this, preferring to stick with the 2 subs (11 a side) so that they can bring off two weaker lads and bring on two more. Very amusing at times actually.
It's pathetic same coaches were probably chit in their own playing days.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 09, 2019, 04:24:17 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2019, 09:06:06 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 08, 2019, 08:41:33 PM
My daughter is part of a squad of 27! At her age group it is 13 a side. She is the 11 year old in under 12. Tonight 22 turned up that would have left 9 subs to be satisfied (if all 27 turn up there would be 14 subs). She played one quarter and a five minute spell later on. This is going to be the gig for the year. She is already not getting enough game time to bring her on. Thinking of pulling her from the club for the season and joining a Town team that would have a 'B' team. Any other solutions?
How about you offering to take a "B" team in the club you're already at.
There is not enough for a 'B' team. To have a B team with 13 a side you need a panel of about 34 or 36. I already have more than my share of sporting commitments as a coach and volunteer.
Is this 13 aside hard and fast?
We can go 11 aside if needs be.
You also pointed out that there's a lot of the kids turn up willy nilly, very hard for a volunteer coach to manage that and get them gametime when you can't rely on them week in week out.
I know I'm going to receive a call from a parent very shortly about their kid who has trained the sum total of three times since January, hasn't turned up for a game since a friendly in February for an U14 team (this kid is in his final year at this level) and the manager has discussed with me about what to do and I've suggested he's given a subs jersey and earns the right to get game time by attending training more often.
The wee lad plays soccer and that's fine, so do some of the other ones, but they also make training and games.
What message would we be sending out to the other kids who turn up all the time and this lad saunters onto the pitch ahead of them just because he's older?
Fundamentals down, no bother, but I have explained to parents to play fair, get their kids to training, take your turn to travel to away games as its not fair if wee Jenny or Jonny rocks up to the home games and expects to play and never appears at away games and blitzes.
P.S. It's never the kids that are the problem, its always the parents when it comes to this.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 09, 2019, 05:10:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 09, 2019, 03:47:29 PM
Handy when you're a big club and you've got 20 or 30 at each age group. You'll win you're share of Senior champs when you've the shear weight of numbers in your favour.
But I do agree all children no matter what ability should be given a game and picking the best out at such a young age sickens my hole. I see it so often.
That's where you have to be strong. We take beatings off teams who are playing their best players in their top team, and that leads to pressures from inside the club. The county has a (very good) rule that every young lad who togs out for U12 championship must get at least a full half, and all substitutions take place at half time, barring injuries. However I know for a fact that some clubs (well regarded senior clubs) send out texts to their weaker players telling them to stay at home for certain games, so that they can minimise the number of substitutions they have to make. I've also had some clubs refuse to play 13 a side, because they want to dilute their weaker players influence on the game. If I turn up with 13, and the other team has 13, I'm happy to play 13 a side with no subs, so everyone plays the full game. I have had opponents refuse to do this, preferring to stick with the 2 subs (11 a side) so that they can bring off two weaker lads and bring on two more. Very amusing at times actually.
I've saw this happen too and I've told the coaches that if another team does this and has subs to put out 13 (15 depending on the age) then you line out the 13/15 anyway and its up to them to send their weaker players on if they want.
Why should we deny some kids gametime because of the bolloxology of another team.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 09, 2019, 05:10:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 09, 2019, 03:47:29 PM
Handy when you're a big club and you've got 20 or 30 at each age group. You'll win you're share of Senior champs when you've the shear weight of numbers in your favour.
But I do agree all children no matter what ability should be given a game and picking the best out at such a young age sickens my hole. I see it so often.
That's where you have to be strong. We take beatings off teams who are playing their best players in their top team, and that leads to pressures from inside the club. The county has a (very good) rule that every young lad who togs out for U12 championship must get at least a full half, and all substitutions take place at half time, barring injuries. However I know for a fact that some clubs (well regarded senior clubs) send out texts to their weaker players telling them to stay at home for certain games, so that they can minimise the number of substitutions they have to make. I've also had some clubs refuse to play 13 a side, because they want to dilute their weaker players influence on the game. If I turn up with 13, and the other team has 13, I'm happy to play 13 a side with no subs, so everyone plays the full game. I have had opponents refuse to do this, preferring to stick with the 2 subs (11 a side) so that they can bring off two weaker lads and bring on two more. Very amusing at times actually.
The rule that every young lad must get a game is a great one. My club were not good with this stuff and due to it kids were leaving at u12. I would probably have stayed coaching a few more years but for the attitude of win at all costs. When it came to senior the ones who didn't get gametime had long gone and the glory ones were nowhere to be seen.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 09, 2019, 04:24:17 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2019, 09:06:06 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 08, 2019, 08:41:33 PM
My daughter is part of a squad of 27! At her age group it is 13 a side. She is the 11 year old in under 12. Tonight 22 turned up that would have left 9 subs to be satisfied (if all 27 turn up there would be 14 subs). She played one quarter and a five minute spell later on. This is going to be the gig for the year. She is already not getting enough game time to bring her on. Thinking of pulling her from the club for the season and joining a Town team that would have a 'B' team. Any other solutions?
How about you offering to take a "B" team in the club you're already at.
There is not enough for a 'B' team. To have a B team with 13 a side you need a panel of about 34 or 36. I already have more than my share of sporting commitments as a coach and volunteer.
I'd completely disagree. 27 at U12 should be 2 teams. If county board or whoever are saying that all u12 games must be 13-a-side (which i'd find very hard to believe) then there is a serious issue with the development of underage players in your county.
Agree with everything written here. Especially AZ's comment on accommodating a smaller number Second team or a putting in two equal teams rather than one very strong and one very weak. These things are not going to happen.
My eldest lad plays for Clontarf U12s and they have 3 teams A, B and C. He plays football for the A team and hurling for the B team but they tend to move lads around a bit from team to team up until this year.
A few weeks ago they played Baldoyle who only have the one team and it was the weirdest game they ever played as in they had 5 black girls on the team that were over 14 or 15 and a few other lads that were well over age but our lot still hammered them. It must be tough for a team like that to get a hammering every week but at least it gets them out exercising I suppose.
Played on a team where we got beat by 50+ points 2 weeks in a row in the league then ended up folding. A number of years later we won the county title at the same age group. Good test of character whether you stick at it after that. (We'd a few other games with slightly less of a beating but not much).
Can I ask when should clubs start emphasising competitiveness? U14 onwards?
Quote from: shark on April 09, 2019, 12:40:55 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 09, 2019, 10:33:39 AM
We have this issue in our club. Between U12s and U11s we have 40 players. We have entered 3 teams in football, and 2 teams in hurling (as the hurling will be during summer holidays). Our teams play 13 a side, 13 a side and 11 a side.
All our U12s are on our 'top' team, which means we won't win any championship, but all our u12s get games at an appropriate level for them. We don't, as a rule, put U11s onto the 'top' team, even through some of our U11s would be better than some u12s. The rationale for this is that we want lads to play with their friends, and we know your average U12 might be your best minor.
The exception to the rule we have, with the individual players in mind, is if a player is completely out of his depth at a certain level, we would talk to his parents and him about going back to a team below, so he can be at a level where he feels he can contribute and not be embarrassed.
Likewise if an U11 is too good for his level, and his development is stunted because he is not challenged, we would suggest moving him up.
Those decisions are never made with a view to winning a championship though. We want to win every game we play, but not at the expense of long term development and player retention.
This approach is not universally liked in the club, as some people feel we should play our strongest team at the top, regardless of age. I'm not sure there's a right answer here, but I'm happy we are trying to do the right thing by our players. I'll be at a meeting tonight where we will be challenged again regarding this approach.
Stand firm. Your approach is absolutely the best one.
+1
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 10, 2019, 06:01:38 PM
Can I ask when should clubs start emphasising competitiveness? U14 onwards?
The kids will be competitive anyway, some more than others but yes, our club would not be selecting a strongest team until Feile kicks in at U14 level. Up to that point, it's all about giving everyone equal game time regardless of ability. As some other lads have alluded to here, it can be a tough pill to swallow at times when the local rivals are handing out the odd hiding with their strongest team at U10!! The former approach will serve you best in the long run Farr. Best of luck with whatever age group you are looking after.
I would go with strongest at u14, if numbers are around 30 try to have a B team. It's possible to field a minimum of 13 I think.
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on April 10, 2019, 07:59:18 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 10, 2019, 06:01:38 PM
Can I ask when should clubs start emphasising competitiveness? U14 onwards?
The kids will be competitive anyway, some more than others but yes, our club would not be selecting a strongest team until Feile kicks in at U14 level. Up to that point, it's all about giving everyone equal game time regardless of ability. As some other lads have alluded to here, it can be a tough pill to swallow at times when the local rivals are handing out the odd hiding with their strongest team at U10!! The former approach will serve you best in the long run Farr. Best of luck with whatever age group you are looking after.
This is a hot topic of discussion among our club coaches at the minute, we're badly stuck for numbers between U14 and U16 and we're taking 2 approaches to resolve it:
1. Ask the players currently playing what we need to do to keep them playing
2. trying to implement a policy of equal playing time U12-U18 i.e. every player getting at least a half, a strategy that will be implemented by England Rugby for their 6-18 year old players. Our younger groups try to setup up games so there are no subs or we use rolling subs to ensure everyone gets loads of playing time.
Games are competitive regardless of age group, kids do not like to lose and therefore will try their best to win. Why do people feel giving players the opportunity of equal game time post U12 shouldn't be a given? Is it not better to have players playing with the club for as long as possible even if they do not go on to play senior?
It's also short sighted. Some players are late developers and in clubs with bigger numbers players who could have been very good will drop off.
Quote from: BenDover on April 11, 2019, 08:52:03 AM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on April 10, 2019, 07:59:18 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 10, 2019, 06:01:38 PM
Can I ask when should clubs start emphasising competitiveness? U14 onwards?
The kids will be competitive anyway, some more than others but yes, our club would not be selecting a strongest team until Feile kicks in at U14 level. Up to that point, it's all about giving everyone equal game time regardless of ability. As some other lads have alluded to here, it can be a tough pill to swallow at times when the local rivals are handing out the odd hiding with their strongest team at U10!! The former approach will serve you best in the long run Farr. Best of luck with whatever age group you are looking after.
This is a hot topic of discussion among our club coaches at the minute, we're badly stuck for numbers between U14 and U16 and we're taking 2 approaches to resolve it:
1. Ask the players currently playing what we need to do to keep them playing
2. trying to implement a policy of equal playing time U12-U18 i.e. every player getting at least a half, a strategy that will be implemented by England Rugby for their 6-18 year old players. Our younger groups try to setup up games so there are no subs or we use rolling subs to ensure everyone gets loads of playing time.
Games are competitive regardless of age group, kids do not like to lose and therefore will try their best to win. Why do people feel giving players the opportunity of equal game time post U12 shouldn't be a given? Is it not better to have players playing with the club for as long as possible even if they do not go on to play senior?
I absolutely agree with you but U14 (Feile) is the first time we would move towards fielding a strong team within an age group as up to that point ALL teams are equally balanced. The Galway football feile starts this weekend and we will field 2 teams but the A team is obviously stronger. We have 2 competing at U16 level also but only 1 at minor and obviously we are hoping to improve on that and keep players within the club and try to keep reducing any fall off in numbers. I accept there will be some fall off but our aim is to minimise it as much as possible.
Its mad the different challenges of clubs. Ive a boy and a girl. The boy stays with his club, they have 15 boys and need everyone of them to field, sometime we have to go down the age level to make a team. My daughter plays in an amalgamated girls club. There are 30 girls on the panel. They only could round up enough coaches for one team. She was lucky to be one of the girls that got a game from the youngest group, 7/8 of her friends got 2 mins at the end. It comes down to parent volunteering in my daughters case and in my sons case its about never giving up on any child or you are stuck. Different challenges for different clubs.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 10, 2019, 06:01:38 PM
Can I ask when should clubs start emphasising competitiveness? U14 onwards?
What does competitive mean though? Boys want competitive games at U12. As do girls.
I'd want all our Under 10s to be able match their opponents skillwise.
The growth spurt will happen eventually for all children
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 11, 2019, 05:31:49 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 10, 2019, 06:01:38 PM
Can I ask when should clubs start emphasising competitiveness? U14 onwards?
What does competitive mean though? Boys want competitive games at U12. As do girls.
I'd want all our Under 10s to be able match their opponents skillwise.
The growth spurt will happen eventually for all children
I don't understand this sentence.
Hi, back again! As I was saying earlier we have a panel of 27 for 13 a side under 12 Girls. 8 Girls play every minute of every game that leaves 5 places for up to usually 15 Girls on game day.
It's a mess of players getting quarters in the full forward line where they see Fuk all ball.
Anyway time to move on!
What is the procedure for transferring from one club to another in the LGFA? I know the ladies game is like soccer and players can move to any club.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 24, 2019, 11:40:27 PM
Hi, back again! As I was saying earlier we have a panel of 27 for 13 a side under 12 Girls. 8 Girls play every minute of every game that leaves 5 places for up to usually 15 Girls on game day.
It's a mess of players getting quarters in the full forward line where they see Fuk all ball.
Anyway time to move on!
What is the procedure for transferring from one club to another in the LGFA? I know the ladies game is like soccer and players can move to any club.
Why not a 2nd team? Two 13 a sides would be great for more game time. Yes 1 would miss out, but I'm sure it would be a revolving door.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 24, 2019, 11:40:27 PM
Hi, back again! As I was saying earlier we have a panel of 27 for 13 a side under 12 Girls. 8 Girls play every minute of every game that leaves 5 places for up to usually 15 Girls on game day.
It's a mess of players getting quarters in the full forward line where they see Fuk all ball.
Anyway time to move on!
What is the procedure for transferring from one club to another in the LGFA? I know the ladies game is like soccer and players can move to any club.
Why are 8 girls playing every minute of every game?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2019, 09:16:35 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 24, 2019, 11:40:27 PM
Hi, back again! As I was saying earlier we have a panel of 27 for 13 a side under 12 Girls. 8 Girls play every minute of every game that leaves 5 places for up to usually 15 Girls on game day.
It's a mess of players getting quarters in the full forward line where they see Fuk all ball.
Anyway time to move on!
What is the procedure for transferring from one club to another in the LGFA? I know the ladies game is like soccer and players can move to any club.
Why are 8 girls playing every minute of every game?
I'm guessing it's to do with the W word. This is worth a read for anyone involved with any team https://changingthegameproject.com/a-higher-purpose-than-winning/ (https://changingthegameproject.com/a-higher-purpose-than-winning/)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2019, 09:16:35 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 24, 2019, 11:40:27 PM
Hi, back again! As I was saying earlier we have a panel of 27 for 13 a side under 12 Girls. 8 Girls play every minute of every game that leaves 5 places for up to usually 15 Girls on game day.
It's a mess of players getting quarters in the full forward line where they see Fuk all ball.
Anyway time to move on!
What is the procedure for transferring from one club to another in the LGFA? I know the ladies game is like soccer and players can move to any club.
Why are 8 girls playing every minute of every game?
We are good enough to go far in the 'A' under 12 Championship. Winning this would be huge for the club! Taking any of these 8 players off would lessen this!
I totally understand both sides.
There is no animosity here. They are doing what is best for to win a trophy. And I'm doing what is best for my daughter who is lost in a very big squad with a plethora of other kids in the same boat.
Anyway anyone know the process to switching club in LFGA?
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 25, 2019, 10:14:49 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2019, 09:16:35 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 24, 2019, 11:40:27 PM
Hi, back again! As I was saying earlier we have a panel of 27 for 13 a side under 12 Girls. 8 Girls play every minute of every game that leaves 5 places for up to usually 15 Girls on game day.
It's a mess of players getting quarters in the full forward line where they see Fuk all ball.
Anyway time to move on!
What is the procedure for transferring from one club to another in the LGFA? I know the ladies game is like soccer and players can move to any club.
Why are 8 girls playing every minute of every game?
We are good enough to go far in the 'A' under 12 Championship. Winning this would be huge for the club! Taking any of these 8 players off would lessen this!
I totally understand both sides.
There is no animosity here. They are doing what is best for to win a trophy. And I'm doing what is best for my daughter who is lost in a very big squad with a plethora of other kids in the same boat.
Anyway anyone know the process to switching club in LFGA?
FFS. Ridiculous mentality.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2019, 12:14:48 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 25, 2019, 10:14:49 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2019, 09:16:35 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 24, 2019, 11:40:27 PM
Hi, back again! As I was saying earlier we have a panel of 27 for 13 a side under 12 Girls. 8 Girls play every minute of every game that leaves 5 places for up to usually 15 Girls on game day.
It's a mess of players getting quarters in the full forward line where they see Fuk all ball.
Anyway time to move on!
What is the procedure for transferring from one club to another in the LGFA? I know the ladies game is like soccer and players can move to any club.
Why are 8 girls playing every minute of every game?
We are good enough to go far in the 'A' under 12 Championship. Winning this would be huge for the club! Taking any of these 8 players off would lessen this!
I totally understand both sides.
There is no animosity here. They are doing what is best for to win a trophy. And I'm doing what is best for my daughter who is lost in a very big squad with a plethora of other kids in the same boat.
Anyway anyone know the process to switching club in LFGA?
FFS. Ridiculous mentality.
Crazy yet commonplace outlook. Watch them girls drift away over the next few years. Hopefully it's to other clubs and not from the game.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 25, 2019, 12:27:01 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2019, 12:14:48 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 25, 2019, 10:14:49 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2019, 09:16:35 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 24, 2019, 11:40:27 PM
Hi, back again! As I was saying earlier we have a panel of 27 for 13 a side under 12 Girls. 8 Girls play every minute of every game that leaves 5 places for up to usually 15 Girls on game day.
It's a mess of players getting quarters in the full forward line where they see Fuk all ball.
Anyway time to move on!
What is the procedure for transferring from one club to another in the LGFA? I know the ladies game is like soccer and players can move to any club.
Why are 8 girls playing every minute of every game?
We are good enough to go far in the 'A' under 12 Championship. Winning this would be huge for the club! Taking any of these 8 players off would lessen this!
I totally understand both sides.
There is no animosity here. They are doing what is best for to win a trophy. And I'm doing what is best for my daughter who is lost in a very big squad with a plethora of other kids in the same boat.
Anyway anyone know the process to switching club in LFGA?
FFS. Ridiculous mentality.
Crazy yet commonplace outlook. Watch them girls drift away over the next few years. Hopefully it's to other clubs and not from the game.
The thing is when a club has such numbers it hopes that the average to weak drift away and see winning as a way of holding onto the talented. It is competitive sport after all. Inclusion is only a way of getting registration money at the beginning of the season.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 25, 2019, 12:40:27 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on June 25, 2019, 12:27:01 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2019, 12:14:48 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 25, 2019, 10:14:49 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2019, 09:16:35 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 24, 2019, 11:40:27 PM
Hi, back again! As I was saying earlier we have a panel of 27 for 13 a side under 12 Girls. 8 Girls play every minute of every game that leaves 5 places for up to usually 15 Girls on game day.
It's a mess of players getting quarters in the full forward line where they see Fuk all ball.
Anyway time to move on!
What is the procedure for transferring from one club to another in the LGFA? I know the ladies game is like soccer and players can move to any club.
Why are 8 girls playing every minute of every game?
We are good enough to go far in the 'A' under 12 Championship. Winning this would be huge for the club! Taking any of these 8 players off would lessen this!
I totally understand both sides.
There is no animosity here. They are doing what is best for to win a trophy. And I'm doing what is best for my daughter who is lost in a very big squad with a plethora of other kids in the same boat.
Anyway anyone know the process to switching club in LFGA?
FFS. Ridiculous mentality.
Crazy yet commonplace outlook. Watch them girls drift away over the next few years. Hopefully it's to other clubs and not from the game.
The thing is when a club has such numbers it hopes that the average to weak drift away and see winning as a way of holding onto the talented. It is competitive sport after all. Inclusion is only a way of getting registration money at the beginning of the season.
If that is the clubs actual policy I would run a mile. We've 47 u8 girls from one end of the ability range to the other. We are intent on keeping all of them playing for as long as we can. If they don't make senior players they will hopefully help out with coaching/admin in the club.
Winning shouldn't come into it until senior level and even then it's counter productive to speak about it, winning is a by product of good processes. Until senior level priority should be player development and retention.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2019, 12:14:48 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 25, 2019, 10:14:49 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2019, 09:16:35 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 24, 2019, 11:40:27 PM
Hi, back again! As I was saying earlier we have a panel of 27 for 13 a side under 12 Girls. 8 Girls play every minute of every game that leaves 5 places for up to usually 15 Girls on game day.
It's a mess of players getting quarters in the full forward line where they see Fuk all ball.
Anyway time to move on!
What is the procedure for transferring from one club to another in the LGFA? I know the ladies game is like soccer and players can move to any club.
Why are 8 girls playing every minute of every game?
We are good enough to go far in the 'A' under 12 Championship. Winning this would be huge for the club! Taking any of these 8 players off would lessen this!
I totally understand both sides.
There is no animosity here. They are doing what is best for to win a trophy. And I'm doing what is best for my daughter who is lost in a very big squad with a plethora of other kids in the same boat.
Anyway anyone know the process to switching club in LFGA?
FFS. Ridiculous mentality.
I presume he's got that bored with the Dubs, that he's now moved on to winding everyone else up too!
Has to be a pisstake.