Brainless PSNI and Parades Commission

RealSpiritof98 · March 08, 2012, 02:30:42 PM

QuoteSinn Féin Newry & Armagh MP Conor Murphy has challenged the Parades Commission to explain their rationale for allowing a Loyalist band parade, of up to 40 bands, to march through Armagh City centre on St Patrick's evening.

Conor Murphy said:

"This is a disastrous decision and one which must be challenged. The leaders of all parties within Armagh Council agreed a council policy statement on the cross community ethos of St Patrick's Day but some parties have displayed a duplicitous nature in their decision to now support this clearly provocative parade.

"For the PSNI to state that there are 'no local concerns or sensitivities' attached to this march is utter nonsense and begs the question, what planet are they living on? That input by the PSNI raises serious questions about their judgement and their knowledge of nationalist feelings on what is clearly seen as a sectarian march.

"The band promoting this application to parade explicitly supports the UVF on their website and this demonstrates their inherent sectarianism which has no place in Armagh on St Patrick's Day.

"The Parades Commission have made a dreadful decision which has the potential to destroy the St Patrick's Day festivities in Armagh which last year attracted over 16000 visitors to the city and damage community relations in the City."CRíOCH/END

Newry Armagh MLA Cathal Boylan, who led a Sinn Féin delagation to meet the Parades Commission yesterday, added,

'We made a very solid argument to the Commission that this parade, which has been held in Killylea since 2005, would have a significant detrimental impact on business in the city. Also given the day it is taking place on there is a very real possibility of a serious negative impact on community relations in Armagh.

'The Commission have said that they accept the organiser's view that they this exercise is a '... genuine desire to build bridges and to open the celebration of St. Patrick to the Protestant / Unionist / Loyalist side of the community.' This is deeply flawed. If it were genuinely the case one must question why the Loyalist Bands Forum walked out of Armagh Council's St. Patrick's Day organising committee? Why did they not approach the Council's St. Patrick's day organising committee this year to take part in the cross community event if this was their genuine desire? This statement is also disrespectful to the many participants in the cross community parade from the Protestant community who have played an active role the last number of years.

So for years now the people of Armagh has bowed to the wishes of Unionists on Armagh Council and their funding threats for the St. Patricks Day celebration and gradual attempt to de-Irishise the festival. This is surely an attempt to provoke a reaction and I feel they will get one. For the police force in this town to say there are 'no local concerns or sensitivities' regarding this march is indicative of how they have policed this town for the past few years.

A disgraceful decision by the Parades commission no matter what angle you look at it, (a protestant mate of mine messaged me on Facebook and couldn't believe this got through) and I just hope no-one gets hurt as a result of this.

ardchieftain · March 08, 2012, 03:08:23 PM

When i read that this parade had been applied for i laughed, and thought, cheeky hoors.............

The fact it has been approved is mind blowing. There will be a killing session without a shadow of a doubt. You'd almost think it was some kind of premature april fools joke.

Candyman · March 08, 2012, 03:10:09 PM

I have a very bad feeling about this...

There is live music in Market Street as Part of the parade/festival which is timed to finish at approx 6.30? This parade has been rubber stamped to commence at 7pm, and pass along the same route? What are they going to do, usher everyone onto buses IMMEDIATELY at 6.30 and have thousands of people off the streets in half an hour??

F**KING RIDICULOUS!!!

thejuice · March 08, 2012, 04:03:31 PM

This will really test the waters of "how far we've come" and just how 'tolerant of the other folks' we are.

As mad as it seems to give this the go ahead, is trouble really inevitable?

RealSpiritof98 · March 08, 2012, 04:21:00 PM

Quote from: thejuice on March 08, 2012, 04:03:31 PM
This will really test the waters of "how far we've come" and just how 'tolerant of the other folks' we are.

As mad as it seems to give this the go ahead, is trouble really inevitable?

I don't think its an issue of how far we've come. The 'ach sure let them march brigade will soon be out' I know that, but were does it stop. This is a clear attempt by a sectarian sect of the loyalist community that openly supports the UVF to disrupt a day celebration that most if not all the nationalist community partake in.

I don't give a shit what people want me to interpret St. Patricks Day as but as I have grown up it's a chance to celebrate my Irishness, maybe thats deviated from the people want it to mean, but if the chief of Staff of the good ole US of A can can stand drape himself in all things Green, White and Gold surely I can.

Applesisapples · March 08, 2012, 04:26:08 PM

Orange, the colour that is not Gold and it represents these separated brethren who want to join in the fun. Definitely a crazy decision everyone knows what these KTP bands are like.

Nally Stand · March 08, 2012, 04:28:43 PM

Quote from: thejuice on March 08, 2012, 04:03:31 PM
This will really test the waters of "how far we've come" and just how 'tolerant of the other folks' we are.

As mad as it seems to give this the go ahead, is trouble really inevitable?

A test of how tolerant we are?! I wouldn't think people opposing it are being intolerant of Protestant culture, but rather rightfully intolerant of what is a sectarian band organising a sectarian march on as provocative a day as possible. How many people will now want to avoid Armagh's St Patrick's festival events for fear of their own safety as a result of this?

Make no mistake, opposing it isn't a sign of intolerance.

thejuice · March 08, 2012, 04:45:14 PM

sorry lads that's the reason I put up the " " around those phrases. Its the kind of talk that comes up by the hand-wringers around things like this.

and when I said 'we' I mean both sides.

Candyman · March 08, 2012, 05:11:39 PM

Quote from: thejuice on March 08, 2012, 04:03:31 PM
This will really test the waters of "how far we've come" and just how 'tolerant of the other folks' we are.

As mad as it seems to give this the go ahead, is trouble really inevitable?

There is basically half an hour to get the streets cleared of everyone celebrating St Patricks day. I'd imagine there will be young children waving tricolours etc in Market street when the live music is taking place. The majority of this crowd will probably head down towards the shambles area to "wine and dine" (literally). The Orange march will be going in the same direction, and with half the bands full of drinks and drugs I cant imagine them tolerating much of the Green Brigade.

I hope I'm wrong, but I just cant see a pretty outcome?

What I can see however is police moving on crowds of young people to "clear the streets" for the oncoming march, this is bound to stir-up some tension.... :-/

orchard 8195 · March 08, 2012, 05:19:49 PM

A disaster waiting to happen.

Tonto · March 08, 2012, 05:51:13 PM

Heard this a few weeks ago and I thought it was total madness myself. It's definately not a helpful thing that the band have done. The band who are arranging it come from outside Armagh and they have held a parade on St Patrick's Day in a village outside the town for the last number of years. From what I have heard, they moved it because they thought that they may get more of a crowd in Armagh. However, I've heard one saying that they're staying away and I don't think the crowd will be as good as they've had in recent years.

That said, I'm sure most of you don't know who is in this band and I don't think it's helpful to term them a 'UVF' band* and that most people will be fecked on drink and drugs. Also, this parade is not 'Orange' as some of you have implied.

*The band who are hosting it was formed long before the UVF. And I don't mean the modern thugs, I mean the original one.

Evil Genius · March 08, 2012, 06:04:30 PM

Quote from: orchard 8195 on March 08, 2012, 05:19:49 PM
A disaster waiting to happen.

I have no interest in these Band Parades, nor have I ever marched anywhere etc. Indeed I have a great distaste for any such displays which are designed to be exercises in coat-trailing and territory-marking etc, and to wind up others.

But in the end, does anyone really need to be so provoked that they cannot forebear from reacting? Here is what we're talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO-IiIGBFlY&feature=related

And if they must react, can they not confine it to a peaceful demonstration (placards etc)?

For the Parades Commission has not taken this decision lightly:
http://paradescommission.org/parades/?parade=37666

Nor have they merely said "Fire away, lads", as the conditions imposed in their Determination shows:

The Parades Commission's determination is that the following conditions are placed on the organiser and participants in the parade by Cormeen Rising Sons of William Flute Band in Armagh on Saturday, 17 March 2012.

A.   The parade organiser shall ensure that the parade shall begin no earlier than 7:30 pm, and that it shall disperse promptly no later than 10:30 pm.

B.   All participants and supporters in this parade must behave with due regard for the rights, traditions and feelings of others in the vicinity; refrain from using words or behaviour which could reasonably be perceived as intentionally sectarian, provocative, threatening, abusive, insulting or lewd; obey the lawful directions of parade organisers and stewards at all times, from assembly to dispersal; abide by the conditions of the Code of Conduct; and comply with police directions and in accordance with legislation.

C.   Paramilitary-style clothing must not be worn at any time during the parade; flags, bannerettes and symbols relating to a proscribed organisation must in no circumstances be displayed; and musical instruments must not bear any inscription or mark of a proscribed organisation.

D.   When the parade is in progress there shall be no undue stoppages or delays. Where practicable the parade shall stay close to the near side of the road at all times to minimise disruption and to facilitate the passing of vehicular and other traffic.

E.   The organiser shall arrange for the presence of an adequate number of stewards to ensure that all parade participants act in an orderly manner.

F.   The parade organiser shall bring to the attention of stewards the guidance for parade participants contained in Appendices A and B of the Commission's Code of Conduct. For ease of reference Appendices A and B are reproduced below.

G.   The parade organiser shall ensure that all stewards and participants obey any direction given by the police in relation to this parade.

H.   The parade organiser shall ensure that these conditions are drawn to the attention of all participants.

Finally, the official St.P's Day Parade is due to finish at 4.30 pm - three hours before this Parade commences. Someone said that there will be music in Market Street which ends at 6.30 pm, but on the basis that the Band Parade will only be leaving the Mall at 7 pm, that will surely allow more than half an hour for people to disperse before the Band Parade arrives?

RealSpiritof98 · March 08, 2012, 06:15:42 PM

Evil Genius = ''I don't support these bands/rangers/ windsor hate mob/DUP etc but I will always put up a defense for my fellow brethren''

30-40 bands expected, say

Tonto · March 08, 2012, 06:18:58 PM

Quote from: Evil Genius on March 08, 2012, 06:04:30 PM
I have no interest in these Band Parades, nor have I ever marched anywhere etc. Indeed I have a great distaste for any such displays which are designed to be exercises in coat-trailing and territory-marking etc, and to wind up others.

EG in criticising those who you have no interest in and trying to come up with an idea of why people parade, you are as bad as those people who went to Windsor in the early 1980s and still call NI fans bigots.

Just because you have no idea/ interest does not give you the right to suppose the reasons for people parading. You should read 'Blood and Thunder', a book written by a Catholic man from CO Monaghan who followed Castlederg Young Loyalists for a year. He made the point that if the only reason for parading is to "wind others up" as you said, then why are the biggest and most successful parades in loyalist areas?

Feckitt · March 08, 2012, 06:19:05 PM

Has Willie Frazer got anything to do with this. I had heard a while back that the Whitecross parade was the first of three, including an orange parade in Armagh on St Paddy's Day and an orange parade to the GPO on O'Connell St on Easter Sunday.

When I first heard this, I laughed at the stupidity of him thinking that he would be allowed to do it, but now the Armagh parade is approved, and I think the Dublin parade has been approved as well !!!

What are the parades commission afraid of? Why don't they just tell them to pick any other day of the year?