Kerry Club competitions

[Kerry Mike]

This is going to be longwinded but this is how the Kerry Club Scene breaks down:  (Open to corrections by others and AZ  )

Kerry is made up of 10 GAA Divisions or Districts which are based on geographical locations within the county, with 61 football Clubs some of whom may field A, B or C teams, while some of those 61 also play hurling as well and there are also 9 unique hurling clubs but I'll only focus on the football.

There are Championships and Leagues run by the elected County Board which are classed as County Competitions (but each Divisional or District will have its own elected Board who will run seperate competitions within its division, more on that later.)

The Divisions break out as follows, with each of their club teams and their 2011 County rankings which were determined many years ago while there has been many relegations and promotions since.

South Kerry   
St Michael/Foilmore   Senior  (Ballinskelligs's St Michael and Foilmore joined forces about 20 years ago due to neither team being able to field teams, unusual in that they are not from neighbouring parishes or even close by)
Sneem/Derrynane   Inter (Joined forces in 2008 as Derrynane could not field a team, have been joined underage for years)
Waterville   Inter
St Mary's   Inter
Skellig Rangers   Inter
Valentia   Junior
Dromid   Junior
Renard   Novice
      
Kenmare District   
Kenmare   Junior
Tuosist   Junior
Kilgarvan   Novice
Templenoe   Novice
      
Mid Kerry   
Laune Rangers   Senior
Milltown/Castlemaine   Inter (joined in the 1990's)
Keel   Inter
Glenbeigh/Glencar   Junior
Beaufort   Junior
Cromane   Junior
      
West Kerry   
Dingle   Senior
An Ghaeltacht   Inter
Castlegregory   Inter
Annascaul   Inter
Lispole   Novice
   
East Kerry   
Legion   Senior
Kilcummin   Senior
Dr Crokes   Senior
Gneeveguilla   Senior
Rathmore   Senior
Spa   Inter
Glenflesk   Inter
Firies   
Junior
Fossa   Novice
Listry   Novice
Scartaglin   Novice
      
St Kierans   
Castleisland Desmonds   Inter
Currow   Inter
Ballymacelligot   Junior
Cordal   Junior
Brosna   Novice
      
St Brendans
Ardfert   Senior
St Pats Blennerville   Junior
Churchill   Junior
Na Gaeil   Junior
      
Shannon Rangers
Tarbert   Junior
Ballyduff   Junior
Asdee   Novice
Ballylongford   Novice
Ballydonoghue   Novice
Beale   Novice
      
Feale Rangers
Listowel Emmets   Inter
Finuge   Inter
Duagh   Junior
Knocknagoshel    Novice
Moyvane   Novice
St Senans   Only Play in Divisional competions
Clonmacon   Only Play in Divisional competions
Gale Rangers Only Play in Divisional competions
Knockanure   Only Play in Divisional competions
      
Tralee District   
Kerins O Rahillys   Senior
Austin Stacks   Senior
John Mitchels   Inter

A) The championships

1) The Kerry Senior County Championship is  the main competion made up of 11 Senior Clubs and 9 Divisional teams as above (Tralee District do not field a divisional team), with loser rounds and play offs with 1 Club relegation place going down to Intemediate level.

Divisional Teams however cannot be relegated but also cannot represent Kerry in the Munster Senior Club if they win, If a Divisional teams wins, the Kerry representative will be the highest finishing Club team (Previously this would have been the winners of a seperate competition , The Club Championship) If a Club team wins the County Championship they represent Kerry in Munster Senior Club Championship.

Divisional teams are made up of all non Senior Clubs within that Division or District.

Players on a Divisional team can also play with their club in the same year in one of the Intermediate, Junior or Novice Championships depending on what their club is qualified in. So you could win a Junior and Senior Championship medal in the same year !!

2) The Senior Club Championship is a seperate competion to the Senior Championship, it has 11 Senior Club team who also play in the County Championship as above. Its open to relegation to Intermediate and likewise the Intermediate champions from the previous year can play senior the following year.  The Current 11 Club teams for 2011 are

St Michaels/Foilmore
Kilcummin
Dingle
Laune Rangers
Dr Crokes
Austin Stacks
Legion
Kerins O Rahillys
Ardfert
Gneeveguilla
Rathmore

3) The Intermediate Championship (16 teams), the winners represent Kerry in Munster Intermediate Club and also get promotion to Kerry Senior Club, and have an option of going to the Senior Championship on their own instead of with Divisional team the following year, with play offs for 1 team relegated to Junior. In 2011 the Intermediate will be decided by the following 16 teams:

Spa   
Finuge
John Mitchels   
Sneem/Derrynane
Milltown/Castlemaine   
Listowel Emmets
Skellig Rangers   
Keel
Waterville   
Annascaul
St Marys   
Castleisland Desmonds
Castlegregory   
Currow
An Ghaeltacht   
Glenflesk

4) Junior Championship (16 teams), winners represent Kerry in Munster Junior Club and are promoted to intermediate, play off for team relegated to Novice, 2011 is made up as:

Duagh
Valentia
Churchill   
Tarbert
St Pats Blennerville   
Cromane
Tuosist   
Glenbeigh/Glencar
Kenmare   
Ballymacelligot
Ballyduff   
Beaufort
Cordal   
Na Gaeil
Firies   
Dromid Pearses

5) Novice Championship (14 teams), Winners are promoted to Junior

Knocknagoshel   
Lispole
Kilgarvan   
Asdee
Scartaglin   
Moyvane
Templenoe   
Ballylongford
Ballydonoghue   
Renard
Beale   
Brosna
Fossa   
Listry

6) The County Board also runs the Senior County Leagues And junior County Leagues
For 2011 the County Leagues are as follows, 4 Divisions of 12 Teams and Division 5 of 13 teams, split North & South , which contains some B teams

County Senior league (61 teams including three B teams)               
Division 1
Kerins O Rahillys
Gneeveguilla
Ardfert
Austin Stacks
Annascaul
St Michaels/Foilmore
Dingle
Laune Rangers
An Ghaeltacht
Legion
Rathmore
Dr Crokes

Division 2
Kilcummin
Skellig Rangers
Glenflesk
Milltown/Castlemaine
Castlegregory
Spa
Castleisland Desmonds
Finuge
St Marys
Kenmare
St Pats Blennerville
Listowel Emmets

Division 3
Waterville
Glenbeigh/Glencar
Tarbert
Firies
Sneem -Derrynane
Keel
John Mitchels
Dromid Pearses
Beaufort
Tuosist
Currow
Cordal

Division 4
Ballymacelligot
Scartaglin
Na Gaeil
Listry
Churchill
Duagh
Lispole
Fossa
Beale
Brosna
St Senans
Ballyduff/Templenoe

Division 5 North
Moyvane
Ballydonoghue
Dingle
Knocknagoshel
Asdee
Strand Road
Ballylongford

Division 5 South
Renard
Cromane
Ballyduff/Templenoe
Laune Rangers B
Valentia
Kilcummin B

7)   County Junior leagues made up of mostly 56 B and C teams with 9 Divisions in 2010 , dont have details yet for 2011 but can see alot less teams taking part given the lack of numbers.

Junior Div 1
Currow
Austin Stacks
Kilcummin
Milltown/Castlemaine
Dr Crokes
Listowel Emmets
Rathmore
Spa

Junior Div 2
Keel
Churchill
Beaufort
Fossa
Lispole
Scartaglin

Junior Div 3
Laune Rangers C
Rathmore
Listowel Emmets
Listry
The Rock
Charlie Kerins
Rathmore C

Junior Div 4
St Michaels/Foilmore
Waterville
Dromid Pearses
Kenmare
St Marys
Sneem

Junior Div 5
Skellig Rangers
Glenbeigh/Glencar
Derrynane
Cromane
Valentia

Junior Div 6
Gneeveguilla
John Mitchels
Legion
Gaeltacht
Glenflesk
Desmonds

Junior Div 7
Ardfert
Na Gaeil
Beale
Moyvane
Tarbert
Duagh

Junior Div 8
Castlegregory
Firies
Ballymacelligot
Cordal
Annascaul
St Pats Blennerville

Junior Div 9
Ballydonoghue
St Senans
Ballylongford
Knocknagoshel
Knockanure
Clounmacon

The county Board also runs 4 extra knock out competitions for the teams who play in the Junior Leagues, The Barrett Cup, Molyneaux Cup,McElligott Cup and the Cahill Cup

8   Each Division or District will also run off its own competitions for instance in South Kerry, there is a South Kerry Championship and League, but also a South Kerry Junior Championship and league which is mainly made up of teams that can field a B team. Divisions also run their own Minor Leagues and Championships.

9) Divisional Structure also works in U21 and Minor, though the U21 only have County Championship while Minor has County League and Championship Championships


See it's all very simple !!

[Uladh]

Ah jaysus

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

The only issue that I would raise is that Kerry are operating 4 tiers of club football unlike the rest of the county. So the Junior teams that represent Kerry are the champions of the 3rd grade of 4 (and therefore almost exactly halfway up the club ladder in Kerry) but play against club who are champions of the 3rd tier of 3 in their county and, as such, are nowhere near as far up their county ladder. I think there's an inherent unfairness there.

Clearly the system has worked well for Kerry football over the years. The emphasis would seem to be on a huge number of matches for each club and player, something a lot of other counties could learn from. Too often players sit idle for long periods throughout the season, it doesn't seem as those you'd have the chance in Kerry.

When did the Club championship stop sending the representative to Munster when a Divisional side triumphed in the county championship? If two club sides lose to two divisional sides in the County semi-finals will those two clubs play off for a spot in the Munster Championship?

[Go home ref]

Kerry Mike .. it would be easier to play in all them competitions than type out all that list of yours
Some organisation involved there. I'd hate to see the mess some Co Boards I know of would make of running that lot.

[AZOffaly]

The only issue that I would raise is that Kerry are operating 4 tiers of club football unlike the rest of the county. So the Junior teams that represent Kerry are the champions of the 3rd grade of 4 (and therefore almost exactly halfway up the club ladder in Kerry) but play against club who are champions of the 3rd tier of 3 in their county and, as such, are nowhere near as far up their county ladder. I think there's an inherent unfairness there.

Clearly the system has worked well for Kerry football over the years. The emphasis would seem to be on a huge number of matches for each club and player, something a lot of other counties could learn from. Too often players sit idle for long periods throughout the season, it doesn't seem as those you'd have the chance in Kerry.

When did the Club championship stop sending the representative to Munster when a Divisional side triumphed in the county championship? If two club sides lose to two divisional sides in the County semi-finals will those two clubs play off for a spot in the Munster Championship?

TAC, Offaly has Junior B and Junior C football. Granted a lot of them are small clubs, while others are second and third teams of bigger clubs. However, the winners of Junior B does not progress into the Leinster Club. It's the same in Kerry, except Junior 'B' is called Novice.

[AZOffaly]

Clearly the system has worked well for Kerry football over the years. The emphasis would seem to be on a huge number of matches for each club and player, something a lot of other counties could learn from. Too often players sit idle for long periods throughout the season, it doesn't seem as those you'd have the chance in Kerry.

When did the Club championship stop sending the representative to Munster when a Divisional side triumphed in the county championship? If two club sides lose to two divisional sides in the County semi-finals will those two clubs play off for a spot in the Munster Championship?

On the first observation, TAC, you are correct. They play an inordinate number of games in Kerry. Especially when you factor in the divisional board competitions KM alluded to. If you are at a certain level then, you could literally be playing all year.

Of course, given the fact that Kerry are generally involved in the Championship a lot longer than Offaly for example, the clubs play a lot of their league games without the Kerry players. Also, competitions tend to run for longer. It's not unusual to see the South Kerry Championship being played after Christmas. (Stephens' Day this year I think).

If you were Killian Young, Brian Sheehan or Declan O'Sullivan, you could be playing in the following competitions. (Eliminate the representative/divisional teams as you go down the talent scale)

Kerry Seniors in Championship
Kerry Seniors in National Football League
South Kerry in Senior County Championship
Renard/Marys/Dromid in County Leagues
Renard/Marys/Dromid in Club Championships
Renard/Marys/Dromid in South Kerry Championship
Renard/Marys/Dromid in South Kerry League


On your second question, I think it was a 3 years ago or so. I'm not sure why they made the change, but I suspect it's because the County Championship is the Blue Ribband event, and a final appearance in that is worth more than winning the Club Championship. (If you were in both, and had a lad doubtful with injury, you'd be more likely to play him in the County Championship, and rest him for the Club Championship game).

[AZOffaly]

KM, I think Saint Senans do play in the Novice Championship. They do this year anyway

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

The only issue that I would raise is that Kerry are operating 4 tiers of club football unlike the rest of the county. So the Junior teams that represent Kerry are the champions of the 3rd grade of 4 (and therefore almost exactly halfway up the club ladder in Kerry) but play against club who are champions of the 3rd tier of 3 in their county and, as such, are nowhere near as far up their county ladder. I think there's an inherent unfairness there.

Clearly the system has worked well for Kerry football over the years. The emphasis would seem to be on a huge number of matches for each club and player, something a lot of other counties could learn from. Too often players sit idle for long periods throughout the season, it doesn't seem as those you'd have the chance in Kerry.

When did the Club championship stop sending the representative to Munster when a Divisional side triumphed in the county championship? If two club sides lose to two divisional sides in the County semi-finals will those two clubs play off for a spot in the Munster Championship?

TAC, Offaly has Junior B and Junior C football. Granted a lot of them are small clubs, while others are second and third teams of bigger clubs. However, the winners of Junior B does not progress into the Leinster Club. It's the same in Kerry, except Junior 'B' is called Novice.

Didn't realise that system of having clubs operating at a level below the Junior championship was repeated in other counties. Grades like Junior B or C don't exist in Armagh, or most other Northern counties as far as I'm aware. The lowest grade would simply be Junior with Reserve or B teams playing in separate competitions.

[galwayman]

Yeah we have Junior A (which is the grade directly below Intermediate), Junior B, Junior C in Galway also.
In fact some clubs have 2nd teams that are in the Intermediate grade, pllaying at a higher level than some clubs first teams in junior A (e.g Corofin,Salthill).

KM/AZ would you know from a junior championship perspective in Kerry - what teams would be regarded as maybe in the top 5 or 6 teams but without being a hugely stand out team such as St. Marys? My own club - who would be in the top 5 or 6 junior clubs in Galway but not particularly strong all the same - are looking to head away down that side of the country for a weekend and possibly play a game on the Saturday or Sunday and would be looking to play somebody of a reasonably similar standard. A team like Marys would be too good for them in all honesty

[orchard 8195]

The only issue that I would raise is that Kerry are operating 4 tiers of club football unlike the rest of the county. So the Junior teams that represent Kerry are the champions of the 3rd grade of 4 (and therefore almost exactly halfway up the club ladder in Kerry) but play against club who are champions of the 3rd tier of 3 in their county and, as such, are nowhere near as far up their county ladder. I think there's an inherent unfairness there.[/b]
Clearly the system has worked well for Kerry football over the years. The emphasis would seem to be on a huge number of matches for each club and player, something a lot of other counties could learn from. Too often players sit idle for long periods throughout the season, it doesn't seem as those you'd have the chance in Kerry.

When did the Club championship stop sending the representative to Munster when a Divisional side triumphed in the county championship? If two club sides lose to two divisional sides in the County semi-finals will those two clubs play off for a spot in the Munster Championship?

TAC sure technically in our own county you could be in division 1 and be playing in the junior champ. This year Tullysaran are playing in div 2 and are in Junior Champ.

[magpie seanie]

So do we take from this that playing games of football helps you to be better at football?

[Kerry Mike]

KM/AZ would you know from a junior championship perspective in Kerry - what teams would be regarded as maybe in the top 5 or 6 teams but without being a hugely stand out team such as St. Marys? My own club - who would be in the top 5 or 6 junior clubs in Galway but not particularly strong all the same - are looking to head away down that side of the country for a weekend and possibly play a game on the Saturday or Sunday and would be looking to play somebody of a reasonably similar standard. A team like Marys would be too good for them in all honesty

I would go with any of the teams in Div 3 of the county league below , proabaly a step or two behind St Mary's at present.
Sneem, Waterville & Dromid all close by in South Kerry and would have played in the South Kerry Championship which was won by St Mary's a few weeks ago.

Division 3
Waterville
Glenbeigh/Glencar
Tarbert
Firies
Sneem -Derrynane
Keel
John Mitchels
Dromid Pearses
Beaufort
Tuosist
Currow
Cordal

[Kerry Mike]

So do we take from this that playing games of football helps you to be better at football?

playing games of football against higher quality players and teams will help you out, but its not everything, tradition, natural skills, coaching, facilities and backup supports also help.

[magpie seanie]

So do we take from this that playing games of football helps you to be better at football?

playing games of football against higher quality players and teams will help you out, but its not everything, tradition, natural skills, coaching, facilities and backup supports also help.

Yeah, of course you must have the other things (if you don't have tradityion you just have to make your own tradition) but games are crucial. I love the Kerry club system. Its about survival of the fittest, not protecting your own clubs narrow interests.

[blanketattack]

The only issue that I would raise is that Kerry are operating 4 tiers of club football unlike the rest of the county. So the Junior teams that represent Kerry are the champions of the 3rd grade of 4 (and therefore almost exactly halfway up the club ladder in Kerry) but play against club who are champions of the 3rd tier of 3 in their county and, as such, are nowhere near as far up their county ladder. I think there's an inherent unfairness there.

The novice c'ship is relatively recent. Before it came along those clubs played in the Junior c'ship so I can't see how removing the worst half of the junior clubs is an advantage? It's just one less round.

Also lots of other counties have a Junior B/Novice championship or even a Junior C as well making the Junior 'A' tier 3 of 5.

One county that is at a disadvantage is Cork. Their Junior grade is their 4th tier, so they end up competing against the 3rd tier from other counties in the club c'ship. They've still managed to win the All-Ireland junior club though.
Then again there must be about 60 or 70 junior football teams in Cork, 4 times that of Kerry.