Author Topic: woman dies for want of a abortion  (Read 19439 times)

Pangurban

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Re: woman dies for want of a abortion
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2012, 08:51:03 PM »
There is a wise old Irish adage to advise on situations where insufficient evidence is available or facts are in doubt, ( Say nothing till you hear more)

Puckoon

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Re: woman dies for want of a abortion
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2012, 08:56:55 PM »
There is a wise old Irish adage to advise on situations where insufficient evidence is available or facts are in doubt, ( Say nothing till you hear more)

Wise my arse, this is a very very sad situation - and unfortunately there's a hint of the adage you allude to in the days leading up to the girls death and in the lack of government direction with implementing concrete legislation which (forgetting completely about the pro life vs pro choice debate) will strive to protect a pregnant mother in danger.

Unfortunately this will turn political, but it is a very very tragic story.

cadence

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Re: woman dies for want of a abortion
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2012, 09:18:52 PM »
it's a horrific outcome to lack of legislation, but you have got to ask why government have taken so long to sort it. what's the crack with bringing in new legislation in ireland, papers followed by bill then act? what stage is this at if any? shambles.

stew

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Re: woman dies for want of a abortion
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2012, 09:23:57 PM »
If the child had no chance of survival then it should have been done, I am very much pro life but in this case it seems they fcuked it all up!

I would go as far to sat that inside a month, six weeks at the outside women who wanted one should have the right to have one, that said I find it disgusting when the baby is viable and they horse on and kill the baby.

May they both rest in peace, heads should roll for this, negligence seems to be the order of the day but I am sure the truth will come out shortly! :(
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seafoid

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Re: woman dies for want of a abortion
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2012, 09:30:36 PM »
Denials coming now that the "Catholic country" comment was ever made. Also that there were underlying health problems was cast doubt on claims that "want of an abortion" was the cause of death.
I can't see this being spun, Ulick.

It's been spinning since last night old stock. This debate is won - all the media outlets who splashed with "Ireland's Taliban" stories won't splash with clarifications if this turns out not to have been the case. Sometimes getting in first is all that matters.

There is no comeback on this. There is no story that can make it better.
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IolarCoisCuain

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Re: woman dies for want of a abortion
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2012, 09:58:04 PM »
Denials coming now that the "Catholic country" comment was ever made. Also that there were underlying health problems was cast doubt on claims that "want of an abortion" was the cause of death.
I can't see this being spun, Ulick.

It's been spinning since last night old stock. This debate is won - all the media outlets who splashed with "Ireland's Taliban" stories won't splash with clarifications if this turns out not to have been the case. Sometimes getting in first is all that matters.

the 'catholic country' quote originated from the husband did it not and his story is the one that resonates truthfully. hospital/health authority commenting prior to an investigation of what went on is just spin. distasteful spin mind. what i mean is i can't see them spinning their way out of it. it's too big a story. too scandalous. will have to be investigated independently. health authority can't be anywhere near this. how it can be truly independent when government is accountable too is anyone's guess. a mess.

Truthiness is is all well and good, but I'm old fashioned. I still like to hear all of what happened before coming to conclusions.

cadence

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Re: woman dies for want of a abortion
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2012, 10:20:09 PM »
Denials coming now that the "Catholic country" comment was ever made. Also that there were underlying health problems was cast doubt on claims that "want of an abortion" was the cause of death.
I can't see this being spun, Ulick.

It's been spinning since last night old stock. This debate is won - all the media outlets who splashed with "Ireland's Taliban" stories won't splash with clarifications if this turns out not to have been the case. Sometimes getting in first is all that matters.

the 'catholic country' quote originated from the husband did it not and his story is the one that resonates truthfully. hospital/health authority commenting prior to an investigation of what went on is just spin. distasteful spin mind. what i mean is i can't see them spinning their way out of it. it's too big a story. too scandalous. will have to be investigated independently. health authority can't be anywhere near this. how it can be truly independent when government is accountable too is anyone's guess. a mess.

Truthiness is is all well and good, but I'm old fashioned. I still like to hear all of what happened before coming to conclusions.

fair enough. find it hard to believe that anything other than lack of legislation placing duty of care on hospital has happened here though. if hospital are implying otherwise, they are talking prior to any investigation and have not provided any hard evidence to back this up. talking shit comes to mind.

GalwayBayBoy

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Re: woman dies for want of a abortion
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2012, 10:44:17 PM »
it's a horrific outcome to lack of legislation, but you have got to ask why government have taken so long to sort it. what's the crack with bringing in new legislation in ireland, papers followed by bill then act? what stage is this at if any? shambles.

Various governments have been kicking the abortion legislation can down the road for 20+ years now. They have all been absolutely shit-scared to stir up that particular hornets nest sadly and in this case tragically.

BarryBreensBandage

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Re: woman dies for want of a abortion
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2012, 10:52:18 PM »
There is a wise old Irish adage to advise on situations where insufficient evidence is available or facts are in doubt, ( Say nothing till you hear more)

Wise my arse, this is a very very sad situation - and unfortunately there's a hint of the adage you allude to in the days leading up to the girls death and in the lack of government direction with implementing concrete legislation which (forgetting completely about the pro life vs pro choice debate) will strive to protect a pregnant mother in danger.

Unfortunately this will turn political, but it is a very very tragic story.

Very good post Puckoon, bringing it back to the tragedy at hand.

I realise people are saying wait and see what the evidence is, but if so, how has the story come this far?

Surely, given the recent scandal of newspaper stories and RTE documentaries, editors and journalists are watertight on their reports?

Not to belittle the tragedy at hand, but I wonder if there is a forum in India with a "things that make you go what the f**k" - if so , this would be right there as one of those stories.

Like it or not, the story is there for international consumption and for even a shard of it to be true is shocking.

I really feel for Praveen Halappanavar, having to deal with losing a child and wife.
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Main Street

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Re: woman dies for want of a abortion
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2012, 10:56:08 PM »
Also that there were underlying health problems was cast doubt on claims that "want of an abortion" was the cause of death.
Septicaemia was the cause of death,  after nearly waiting for 3 days in extreme pain. Maybe you should investigate a little into miscarriage and septicemia risks?
Can it be determined that her life would have been saved if the pregnancy had been aborted when it was medically obvious that the baby would not survive?  I don't know.
But to allow her to wait that long  when there was medically no chance for the baby to survive  just because there was a heartbeat, and just intervene when there was no longer a heartbeat, is a medical and moral absurdity.

cadence

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Re: woman dies for want of a abortion
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2012, 10:57:43 PM »
it's a horrific outcome to lack of legislation, but you have got to ask why government have taken so long to sort it. what's the crack with bringing in new legislation in ireland, papers followed by bill then act? what stage is this at if any? shambles.

Various governments have been kicking the abortion legislation can down the road for 20+ years now. They have all been absolutely shit-scared to stir up that particular hornets nest sadly and in this case tragically.

savage. it's one thing to be found acting unlawfully in 2010 and another to mess around and still be no further down the road apart from being waiting for a report.

Farrandeelin

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Re: woman dies for want of a abortion
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2012, 11:04:38 PM »
Denials coming now that the "Catholic country" comment was ever made. Also that there were underlying health problems was cast doubt on claims that "want of an abortion" was the cause of death.

She died from septacemia.
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trileacman

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Re: woman dies for want of a abortion
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2012, 11:09:24 PM »
Also that there were underlying health problems was cast doubt on claims that "want of an abortion" was the cause of death.
Septicaemia was the cause of death,  after nearly waiting for 3 days in extreme pain. Maybe you should investigate a little into miscarriage and septicemia risks?
Can it be determined that her life would have been saved if the pregnancy had been aborted when it was medically obvious that the baby would not survive?  I don't know.
But to allow her to wait that long  when there was medically no chance for the baby to survive  just because there was a heartbeat, and just intervene when there was no longer a heartbeat, is a medical and moral absurdity.

And you are sure that's what happened? With no doubts at all?
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cadence

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Re: woman dies for want of a abortion
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2012, 11:13:35 PM »
Also that there were underlying health problems was cast doubt on claims that "want of an abortion" was the cause of death.
Septicaemia was the cause of death,  after nearly waiting for 3 days in extreme pain. Maybe you should investigate a little into miscarriage and septicemia risks?
Can it be determined that her life would have been saved if the pregnancy had been aborted when it was medically obvious that the baby would not survive?  I don't know.
But to allow her to wait that long  when there was medically no chance for the baby to survive  just because there was a heartbeat, and just intervene when there was no longer a heartbeat, is a medical and moral absurdity.

And you are sure that's what happened? With no doubts at all?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/14/savita-alappanavar-death-unanswered-questions

denis campbell, health correspondent, guardian...

While the exact events preceding Savita Halappanavar's death are unclear, the heart-wrenching account her husband has given raises urgent questions about the medical management of her case.

According to reports, on the Tuesday morning, she asked to terminate her pregnancy, given her own worsening health and that the 17-week-old foetus was unviable because she was miscarrying, a fact that her husband Praveen said became clear soon after she arrived at the hospital.

But the request was apparently refused, the couple were told that it was against the abortion laws and that "this is a Catholic country".

"That evening [the Tuesday] she developed shakes and shivering and she was vomiting a doctor took blood and started her on antibiotics," said Praveen. She later died of an infection.

Sepsis blood poisoning is now the leading cause of direct maternal death in the UK, according to the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists.

"Infection can come out of nowhere and kill you very quickly," said one senior NHS doctor and specialist in this area the Guardian spoke to.

The growing number of deaths from sepsis 13 in 2003-05, 29 in 2006-08 prompted the RCOG to send a safety alert to its members in April, warning them to be aware of the signs and act quickly when they appeared, as failure to recognise its signs had featured in "many" deaths related to it.

The inquiries now under way will have to establish when doctors should have realised Savita had an infection and decided that there was a risk to her life, not just her health. The distinction is vital because Ireland supposedly allows abortion only when the mother's life is at risk.

Any woman in labour, whether her labour is proving straightforward or not, is at risk of infection once her waters break, as the waters protect both her and the baby from infection.

Savita appeared to be in trouble as early as Sunday. The apparent failure to recognise that risk then, and to start her on antibiotics until the Tuesday night, will be the most urgent question for those investigating.

IolarCoisCuain

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Re: woman dies for want of a abortion
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2012, 11:46:41 PM »
Heard on the radio tonight the inquiry will take three months. That's shocking. Seems fairly clear to me the hospital fucked it up at a number of points. Better for everyone if they conducted a swift inquiry and make a clean breast of it all. The thing is bad enough as it is without being mealy-mouthed about it.