Is it finally time for two refs for all county games

[sligoman2]

No need to rehash the severe criticism of the refs in both of the Mayo v Kerry games.  I'm starting to wonder if any one  ref could have done a good job under the circumstances, with pulling and dragging, nasty off the ball stuff etc.

I know I have brought this subject up before but surely with a ref in each half of the field there would have a better chance of controlling the game, making the correct calls  and stopping a lot of the nasty stuff that goes unpunished.  I know there is concerns about consistency etc and linesmen and umpires are supposed to keep an eye out but seldom do.

I thought I would pit a poll on top just to see if anyone feels the same about this...

[BennyCake]

Being closer to the play won't always guarantee a correct call. Plus one more official will hardly stop a 20 man brawl.

I think a video referee could be used for penalty claims, red/black cards etc.

The standard of refereeing is brutal but it's a very tough job. I think technology needs to be used more.

[whitey]

Surely the umpires would be better positioned to call a penalty than the ref who might be 30 yards out the field.....that would be a start

Give the umpires more power......that would cut out a lot of the niggly shit

[Never beat the deeler]

Surely the umpires would be better positioned to call a penalty than the ref who might be 30 yards out the field.....that would be a start

Give the umpires more power......that would cut out a lot of the niggly shit

Agree with the idea behind giving umpires more power. How are umpires chosen for intercounty games? Are they appointed as per referees and linesmen? Are they qualified referees? If they are to be given more power, we need to ensure they are adequately provisioned, else it will go from bad to worse.

Back to the OP, being close to the play won't sort out the many inconsistencies IMO. We need better trained referees, but more importantly we need better rules. If we are going to allow 'interpretation', then we need clear guidance from the GAA regularly as to what the correct call would have been.
AFAIK, the AFL regularly communicate to umpires (and players I think, not sure) how they would like certain scenarios policed. At least when a bad call is made, we know it is a bad call and why.

[Eamonnca1]

Milwaukee HC has been using twin referees in their internal league for years and it's made off-the-ball incidents a thing of the past. It eliminates a lot of blind spots on the field, there's always a ref looking at you. The second ref is closer to the action than the umpires.

Less likely to stop a 20-man brawl? Maybe, but a 20-man brawl is less likely to break out in the first place if they know they're within view of at least one ref on the field.

Given the size of a regulation GAA field and the speed of a sliothar, I'm surprised twin refs haven't been adopted before now.

[macdanger2]

Surely the umpires would be better positioned to call a penalty than the ref who might be 30 yards out the field.....that would be a start

Give the umpires more power......that would cut out a lot of the niggly shit

Agree with the idea behind giving umpires more power. How are umpires chosen for intercounty games? Are they appointed as per referees and linesmen? Are they qualified referees? If they are to be given more power, we need to ensure they are adequately provisioned, else it will go from bad to worse.

Back to the OP, being close to the play won't sort out the many inconsistencies IMO. We need better trained referees, but more importantly we need better rules. If we are going to allow 'interpretation', then we need clear guidance from the GAA regularly as to what the correct call would have been.
AFAIK, the AFL regularly communicate to umpires (and players I think, not sure) how they would like certain scenarios policed. At least when a bad call is made, we know it is a bad call and why.

I think that referees need to be given feedback from the powers that be after every game - not as criticism or threats that they won't ref again but like you say, on how calls should have been adjudicated.

[brianboru00]

I;d go a step further and say three.
Get rid of linesmen who actually have less to do than the umpires.......

So instead youd have three full power refs - one running up and down the middle from 50 to 50, the other two would run from the endline to the midfield. All three would have whistles and could blow for a foul. Quick conferring would see any "double frees" decided upon  and clarified. Fourth official could take note of who is on black / yellow / tick etc and also blow a whistle or sound a horn to contact the referee.

Before the "what about junior B games"  comments - Its the ideal scenario to introduce new referees. Pair an established ref with a "junior" referee. It would mean a slight buit more money for "affiliation" but you could budget €100 per game with the senior ref getting€50 and two junior refs getting €25 each - three games a week during the summer months at all levels would be a nice amount of money for a college student for example.
Knockone effect - better quality referees as well as refereeing as more people would be willing to do it as more wrong calls are ruled out so less abuse handed out and if there is - theres safety in numbers - no isolated ref at a league game....

[sligoman2]

I;d go a step further and say three.
Get rid of linesmen who actually have less to do than the umpires.......

So instead youd have three full power refs - one running up and down the middle from 50 to 50, the other two would run from the endline to the midfield. All three would have whistles and could blow for a foul. Quick conferring would see any "double frees" decided upon  and clarified. Fourth official could take note of who is on black / yellow / tick etc and also blow a whistle or sound a horn to contact the referee.

Before the "what about junior B games"  comments - Its the ideal scenario to introduce new referees. Pair an established ref with a "junior" referee. It would mean a slight buit more money for "affiliation" but you could budget €100 per game with the senior ref getting€50 and two junior refs getting €25 each - three games a week during the summer months at all levels would be a nice amount of money for a college student for example.
Knockone effect - better quality referees as well as refereeing as more people would be willing to do it as more wrong calls are ruled out so less abuse handed out and if there is - theres safety in numbers - no isolated ref at a league game....

I agree with the safety in numbers comment.  It is very sad to see referees who are doing the best they can being escorted off the field by the gardai. 

[J OGorman]

what power do umpires usually have? most just stand looking rotund. Give them more power and less tuck shop vouchers. Most importantly, abolish the 2/3/4/5/6/7 man tackle. Only one man can tackle one player. I know the rule states they are tackling the ball, but, pun intended, thats balls. The tackle is the key issue and with this, a ref has a huge baring on how a game pans out.
Sort out the tackle and the game will be much easier reffed

[Milltown Row2]

I don't know what it's like in your counties lads but getting one referee to turn up for a match is a bonus! Now you are looking 3 ffs!!

The only time there are neutral linesmen umpires is Championship. Impossible to get then out for league div 1 games never mind junior b. In saying that I recently did a championship match I made full use of the linesmen in 3 incidents that went on while I was watching play elsewhere. 3 red cards were issued and no real complaints to be fair. It can be done but generally only in championship games. No need to have 2 referees, it's funny how supporters who are general further away than the referee can 'see' fouls more clearly than the referee. And They never see their own club/counties frees lol.

what power do umpires usually have? most just stand looking rotund. Give them more power and less tuck shop vouchers. Most importantly, abolish the 2/3/4/5/6/7 man tackle. Only one man can tackle one player. I know the rule states they are tackling the ball, but, pun intended, thats balls. The tackle is the key issue and with this, a ref has a huge baring on how a game pans out.
Sort out the tackle and the game will be much easier reffed

He can call you in and tell you if their was an incident and you can book them, if there is a penalty decision (was he in the box or not) he can clarify that. Generally I would ensure he tells players to wind their neck in. if they continue and I'm called in they will get booked

[J OGorman]

I don't know what it's like in your counties lads but getting one referee to turn up for a match is a bonus! Now you are looking 3 ffs!!

The only time there are neutral linesmen umpires is Championship. Impossible to get then out for league div 1 games never mind junior b. In saying that I recently did a championship match I made full use of the linesmen in 3 incidents that went on while I was watching play elsewhere. 3 red cards were issued and no real complaints to be fair. It can be done but generally only in championship games. No need to have 2 referees, it's funny how supporters who are general further away than the referee can 'see' fouls more clearly than the referee. And They never see their own club/counties frees lol.

what power do umpires usually have? most just stand looking rotund. Give them more power and less tuck shop vouchers. Most importantly, abolish the 2/3/4/5/6/7 man tackle. Only one man can tackle one player. I know the rule states they are tackling the ball, but, pun intended, thats balls. The tackle is the key issue and with this, a ref has a huge baring on how a game pans out.
Sort out the tackle and the game will be much easier reffed

He can call you in and tell you if their was an incident and you can book them, if there is a penalty decision (was he in the box or not) he can clarify that. Generally I would ensure he tells players to wind their neck in. if they continue and I'm called in they will get booked

in my experience, the vast majority of umpires dont wanna know. A forward can literally be getting fcuked over, is asking the umpires to sort it out and they basically just look down at their feet. And to boot, they probably have thee worst angle in the ground to see points / wides

[Dangleberrys]

Yeah, I've never seen a forward pull and drag out of a tight marking defender

Works both ways and giving umpires 'more power' is a ridiculous idea, less power but two refs makes a lot more sense.

[Milltown Row2]

I don't know what it's like in your counties lads but getting one referee to turn up for a match is a bonus! Now you are looking 3 ffs!!

The only time there are neutral linesmen umpires is Championship. Impossible to get then out for league div 1 games never mind junior b. In saying that I recently did a championship match I made full use of the linesmen in 3 incidents that went on while I was watching play elsewhere. 3 red cards were issued and no real complaints to be fair. It can be done but generally only in championship games. No need to have 2 referees, it's funny how supporters who are general further away than the referee can 'see' fouls more clearly than the referee. And They never see their own club/counties frees lol.

what power do umpires usually have? most just stand looking rotund. Give them more power and less tuck shop vouchers. Most importantly, abolish the 2/3/4/5/6/7 man tackle. Only one man can tackle one player. I know the rule states they are tackling the ball, but, pun intended, thats balls. The tackle is the key issue and with this, a ref has a huge baring on how a game pans out.
Sort out the tackle and the game will be much easier reffed

He can call you in and tell you if their was an incident and you can book them, if there is a penalty decision (was he in the box or not) he can clarify that. Generally I would ensure he tells players to wind their neck in. if they continue and I'm called in they will get booked

in my experience, the vast majority of umpires dont wanna know. A forward can literally be getting fcuked over, is asking the umpires to sort it out and they basically just look down at their feet. And to boot, they probably have thee worst angle in the ground to see points / wides

You aren't wrong in a lot of cases, It's important to have umpires who want to do it and are past/present players. 3 of my umpires on Sunday are referees. and in the previous championship game I over ruled a umpire on a wide he game as my Linesman instructed me from where he was angle wise the ball went over the bar. Same as the last game, there wasn't much room behind the net I asked the lines men to get into a position (I was also) to ensure the correct decision is given. We can't get it all right but we try

[Milltown Row2]

Yeah, I've never seen a forward pull and drag out of a tight marking defender

Works both ways and giving umpires 'more power' is a ridiculous idea, less power but two refs makes a lot more sense.

For this the umpire can't actually do anything other than inform me and I'll have a word with the player and keep an eye on him,
it's a pet hate of mine, but catching it and brining the free down to the 21 yard line is great

[J OGorman]

Yeah, I've never seen a forward pull and drag out of a tight marking defender

Works both ways and giving umpires 'more power' is a ridiculous idea, less power but two refs makes a lot more sense.

roll your eyes all you want dangleberry. I was at an ulster championship match this year, the first thing the full back down was to grab the forward by the throat and squeeze. then threw a couple of elbows into his back. All before the ref threw the ball in. Should the umpire not have brought this to the refs attention as was watching it with a shocked look on his face instead of looking at his feet?