Boxing Thread

[Atticus_Finch]

Fair play to macklin, absolutely gutted for him but he did himself proud and really put it up to Sturm.

it was a great fight to watch.

I would like to watch the fight from start to finish again as when i watched it last night it was from the point of view of being ultra critical of Macklin.

i couldn't help but watch it with this mindset as i was conscious that Macklin was going to have to win any rounds comfortably in order to be awarded them.

Even with scoring the fight in this negative way i had Sturm only winning by one round, possibly two rounds.  How two judges scored that in Sturm's favour by four rounds is an absolute disgrace. 

Apparently german television had Macklin winning the fight by four rounds !

Macklin went at it from the word go and didn't let Sturm establish any rhythm, i thought at one point midway through the fight that it was only a matter of time before Sturm would timber as he seemed to be sustaining some serious punishment.  macklin definitely did run out of gas a bit in the last four rounds but he was bound to with the amount of effort he put in during the initial stages, he did everything he could to prevent that fight from going the distance, the game plan was to take the fight out of the judges hands as much as possible.

But fair play to Sturm, he more than played his part in making this a great fight, he covered up well, showed that he is a very durable fighter and the shots he did throw were thrown with purpose and proved to be effective.

i never would have thought before the fight that macklin would outland Sturm in terms of punches landed but he did.

He really showed a gutsy display and if fights were awarded in terms of guts and effort then he would have won that fight hands down.

the good news is that it seems that a macklin vs Sturm II is inevitable as sturm has already approached macklin with the offer of a rematch.

Hopefully it will be on neutral soil, if so i will do all that i can to make the fight.  Even if it's a fraction as good as macklin vs sturm I it will be worth the trip.

Well done to  Eamon O'kane who won in Craigavon last night, he was fighting Tommy Toland who threw in the towel at the end of the 5th round.

[whitegoodman]

To be macklin had a good start but Sturm undoubtably when the second half of the fight especially the last 4 rounds.  I though Sturm won but not by the margin one of the judges gave it.

Tremendous effort by Macklin against a very hard, solid fighter.  It should help propel him to other possibly easier world title fights against lessor fighters in less intimidating areas.

[Atticus_Finch]

Scanned the fight again and this time tried to score it with an open mind not the ultra critical mindset that i judged the fight last night and think macklin won it by a round,  such a shame that he ran out of gas a bit. 

Macklin wasn't robbed but how two judges scored it in favour of Sturm by four is an absolute disgrace but this isn't an isolated incident.

if you think macklin was hard done by, check out the video of the Danny Williams vs manuel charr fight that was on the undercard last night.

Try watch the whole video if you can,  but if you don't have time watch from about 9:15 onwards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziofUmZp6AI&t=9m50s

Someone tell me that is not an absolute f**king disgrace ..... why would anyone want to fight in Germany ??

[bridgegael]

cant get the link,  wat happened?

[Atticus_Finch]

Sorry Bridge gael, the Sunday game was calling me there.

Can you not access youtube ? Type in "Manuel Charr vs Danny Williams 15/06/11 Part 2/2" to see it for yourself.

But basically Williams was stopped ridicuslously prematurely, after having Charr in serious trouble, Charr rallied a bit and was getting the upper hand ... but not enough to warrant the fight being stopped.

ref didn't even seem to look at his face when he stopped him, looking at his chest ?

What annoys me most is that Williams didn't even protest it and just meekly accepted it.  Truly shocking decision.

[tommysmith]

I dont get wat the referee was at there.

I only watched from 9.15 and he was just after throwing about  at least a dozen punches without reply and then gets hit with a couple and the ref steps in 

[Up The Middle]

Williams didnt seem annoyed at all, got his pay cheque and kept his mouth shut, he is just out for the pay day

[Tommo2]

Just watched the Williams fight. Really unbelievable.  Was not a typical Williams performance throughout the fight. Any time I have watched him, he is a bit of a brawler who moves forward and would use his head a lot.

Makes you wonder whether his change in style would be due to the fact that his heart wasn't in it.

[Atticus_Finch]

Williams should hang up the gloves - there's a reason he's fighting in germany and that's because the British boxing board won't license him.  He's now fighting under some Latvian license.

The Biritsh board wouldn't license him after he had back to back losses.

The first one was when he lost in prizefighter.  williams said at the time that he would hang up the gloves if he lost prizefighter. he didn't even get to the final and was defeated by a guy Carl Baker who wouldn't even be regarded as a good domestic level fighter.  he had him down twice in the first round.  That was the prizefighter that fraudley ended up winning which played a large part in bringing about the box office farce the following year involving himself and Haye.

It was embarassing for Williams as he was British champ at the time.  Needless to say he didn't hang up the gloves and went on to defend his british title against Del boy chisora. Once again he said win, lose or draw and he would hang up the gloves.  He was knocked out in the second round but still didn't hang up the gloves.

When he was refused a licence he did what he had to do so that he could continue fighting.  The boxing world were pretty much unaware of his first fight under this latvian licence until it had already happened.  he's been fighting bums since he's been under this licence and the problem with that is a fighter can soon get delusional after stringing victories against a number of bums and all of a sudden they believe they are better than they really are.  Steve Bunce appealed for him to hang up the gloves before he meets someone that has the ability to hurt him and i'd fully agree with him.

I don't think money is the primary motivating factor here for Williams, i think he just can't live without fighting.  fighting is all he's ever known.

Lets not forget he's had some big days in the sun, and unless there's some problem in his personal life that i'm missing, fairly financially secure.  He's got Mike Tyson's scalp on his cv.  Yes, Tyson was past his best and yes Tyson sustained ligament damage early in the fight before getting knocked down in the 4th but if you've watched the fight it's hard not to give williams credit for his display. Freddie roach was in Tyson's corner that night, surely it must rank as one of his worst nights as a trainer.  By the sounds of it, at that stage Tyson was just impossible to work with and roach jumped ship before the car crash of a fight that was Tyson vs mcBride happened. After the Williams fight Roach, almost in tears, famously said "What good is all the money in the world if you can't count it"

He had a world title shot against Vitali Klitscko as well.  I think that wouldn't have been the worst stage to hang up the gloves but he was only 30 then and in fairness he was operating in a division which wasn't blessed with that much talent on a global basis never mind at a British level and certainly for a number of years after that fight he was amongst the best on the domestic level.

I think and hope that he hangs up the gloves at this fight, after that ridiculous decision he didn't say boo and there was a vacancy in his eyes that suggest that the penny has dropped that it's time to say goodbye no matter how painful that may be.

[Atticus_Finch]

Has anyone any strong views on how the Haye vs Klitschko fight will pan out ?

I'll hold my hands up here and would be the first one to admit that i don't know an awful lot about the fighters fighting in the heavyweight division.  I've long regarded the heavyweight division as the most moribund division in boxing and therefore it's been a long time before i've gone out of my way to watch a heavyweight fight.

While i wouldn't be a big fan of Haye i have to admit that he's spiced up the division a bit. He's the consummate sales man in selling fights,  if his fighting ability reflected the ability of his mouth he'd be the greatest of all time.

I have no strong views on this fight.  I can't see it rivalling Macklin's fight as a spectacle and really doubt it will be up for FOTY. 

But having said that, the more i've been thinking on it recently the more i think Haye might have a chance. 

The general consensus people seem to have on this fight is that it won't go the distance, with most people siding with Klitschko by a late KO and a smaller fraction of people siding with Haye by a early KO.

I can't see this fight being a tear up - Klitschko would happily jab away all night long.  And despite Haye talking this fight up as a tear up, that he'll knock him out early on ... you should know by now to take Haye's words with a pinch of salt.

I can see it panning out quite similar to the Valuev fight ... i think Haye will run about and be as elusive as he can whilst nipping in every now and again to land a quick combination.  Overall it will be a cagey affair that I can see going the distance.  I'm not comparing Klitschko with Valuev in terms of boxing skills,  Klitschko is a lot more mobile and a far better technician from what i've seen of him.

I had initially felt that Klitschko would win this fight but after the Macklin fight ... there's something inside of me ... that is saying that if this fight does go the distance and it is anyway close at all .... the judges will be coming under a lot of pressure to be more favourable to the 'away' fighter.

Matthew Macklin = Haye's sacrificial lamb ?

[Rav67]

A lot will hinge on Haye's strategy.  If Haye tries to recreate the Valuev fight and willingly concedes the centre ground he will find it very difficult to hurt Klitschko from those positions.  Wlad is a well-conditioned fighter and will continue finding his jab throughout the fight, and the extra agression should see him through on the judges scorecards in my opinion.

If Haye tries to grab the centre of the ring and force Klitschko back it will be a very interesting contest and I would expect a stoppage.  I would still just about fancy Klitschko to get it in that scenario but I think Haye needs to be agressive and come forward in this fight to have a good chance of winning.

[heganboy]

i liked wee barry's take on it, Wlad has been knocked down 12 times by poor punchers, hayes is a excellent puncher and if he lands one its over. klitscko is technically strong, and obviously huge, but I do think haye can beat him, he is unbelievably fast

[nrico2006]

A lot will hinge on Haye's strategy.  If Haye tries to recreate the Valuev fight and willingly concedes the centre ground he will find it very difficult to hurt Klitschko from those positions.  Wlad is a well-conditioned fighter and will continue finding his jab throughout the fight, and the extra agression should see him through on the judges scorecards in my opinion.

If Haye tries to grab the centre of the ring and force Klitschko back it will be a very interesting contest and I would expect a stoppage.  I would still just about fancy Klitschko to get it in that scenario but I think Haye needs to be agressive and come forward in this fight to have a good chance of winning.

You would think that the tactics that worked against Valuev would not work against Klitschko, Valuev had no technical skills at all and was as slow as a carthorse.  As mentioned above, I think Haye needs to be really aggressive and go at Klitschko.  Klitschko has been down quite abit in his career and Haye possess' a speed and power combination that Klitschko will never have faced before, therefore Haye really needs to make life uncomfortable for Klitschko and take him out of his comfort zone, otherwise Klitschko will simply fight his normal fight and jab all night long keeping Haye at bay.  The one big advantage for Haye is that Klitschko fights the same fight all the time, and at this stage of his career he isn't going to change.  Therefore, you would imagine that every movement he makes has been analysed and implemented into the haye strategy.  The same cannot be said about Haye, he has fought a different kind of fight for most of his previous 4 or 5 so Klitschko will not be able to really predict his style.   I think Haye will knock him out personally.

[gallsman]

Just bought the fight. Not too sure what to make of it. Don't think it will be explosive, certainly not FOTY but it is definitely what heavyweight needs at the minute.

For all he can run his mouth to sell seats and PPV buys, Haye is a very, very smart boxer. He stuck to a horrible to watch gameplan against Valuev. I'd expect something similar but Wladimir is twice the boxer Valuev was, although that doesn't say all that much. Regardless of who wins, heavyweight will still be in dire straits.

[CiKe]

I dont think he'd have a prayer against Vitali but against Wlad he def has a punchers chance - though I only give him a punchers chance early. I'm not convinced on his stamina, and the longer the fight goes on the longer Wlad's weight and strength advantage will wear him down. I'm not convinced Haye can outbox him and stay away from him for 12 rounds so i expect him to really try and test Wlad's chin at some stage early on.

Will be interesting to see how hard Haye does actually hit. Certainly he knocked Harrison and Barrett silly but they weren't guys with the best chin, much like Wlad. However unless I'm mistaken I don't think Klitschko has been seriously hurt since the first Peter fight. Whether that is because his defence has improved so much or he is riding punches better i'm not sure - i'd have thought that in 10 fights even against weak opposition someone must have planted at least one on the chin...

Macklin Sturm was great fight, could have gone either way, no pressure on the judges this time at all