Boxing Thread

[CiKe]

Arreola and Peter are both dung. I'd like to see Haye fight Adamek as well, but Adamek's heavyweight opposition hasn't been inspiring either. Both men can punch, but Haye faster and harder hitting, has the edge.

Haye has more than a punchers chance against Wladimir, due to a combination of his speed and Wlad's dodgy chin, but it should be remembered that Wlad has a super stiff jab. He keeps that in Haye's face all night and follow's up with his straight right often enough and it could be a painful night for Haye. If given the chance I would expect him to finish it, but he won't go looking for a KO and get caught.

Vitali vs Haye probably much the same but Haye would have better chance of winning on points than against Wlad as I don't think he can take him out, but speed will trouble Vitali.

[nrico2006]

2 things about ruiz. he was a smaller heavyweight which suited haye and he was also bordering on shot. hence he retired after the fight.

Chagaev beat Valuev. I wonder was it a case of Wlads handlers ducking the beast or the other way around? Not a bum but a marketable freak of nature nevertheless rather than a top heavyweight. And he took Haye all the way.

So at most 2 semi credible heavyweight victories IMO, as Public Enemy would say don't believe the hype.

True, but other than himself and the brothers, who would you consider "credible"? What "credible" fights have either of the Klitschko's taken other than Vitali fighting Lewis? You can only fight what's available and only if it's for the right money. Haye ducked nobody at cruiserweight and ended up unifying the division. In doing so he got up off the seat of his pants, in Paris, to beat Mormeck and then absolutely annihilated Maccarinelli - who has been a shell of a fighter ever since.

You look at the Valuev fight and say he "took him all the way." I think it's more appropriate to consider the fact that Haye managed to beat a fighter a foot taller than him to whom he was conceding something like seven stone. Also, Haye had him wobbling in the last round of that fight.

Yes, Ruiz was small for a heavyweight - didn't stop him causing many superior athletes and fighter plenty of problems though.

Why fight Adamek, Arreola or Peter?  Hardly top level Heavyweights and what would he achieve from fighting them?  Those are the kind of fighters that you would usually have to beat to climb up the latter for a shot at a title, but Haye is already up there and sits at the top of the tree with the two Klitschko's. 

The Heavyweight division has been poor for the past 10 years or more, so I don't get why everyone reckons the two Klitschko's are so good.  Yes they have the big advantage in their size, but as boxers none can match Haye in what many regard as the two most important attributes to have - speed and power.  We all try and presume what will happen between Haye and one of the brothers, that they will go out and use their jab all night long to keep Haye away and either win at the end of on points.  Do you not think that Haye and his camp will be aware of how the tactics the Klitschko's are likely to employ?  Haye is not easily hit himself and seems to have an undeserved reputation surrounding his chin, but he has only ever been down a few times in his career.  Haye will have his own gameplan that will be methodically drawn up and nobody will know what it is, he could go straight out and try and finish it early by going for the jugular and making life uncomfortable for whatever brother he is fighting right from the start, but I can't really see him employing tactics that will play into their hands.

[shawshank]

Did any of you watch the docu on Tyson the other night. He was brutaully honest which made the documentary really despairing to watch. It was obvious to see once more how positive or negative experiences in a childs life either makes or breaks him as a human being. I found it truely sad to watch.

[Banana Man]

Did any of you watch the docu on Tyson the other night. He was brutaully honest which made the documentary really despairing to watch. It was obvious to see once more how positive or negative experiences in a childs life either makes or breaks him as a human being. I found it truely sad to watch.

didn't see it but i remember hearing somewhere that he was a quiet child who loved pigeons and kept them. Then one day the local neighbourhood bully killed them and tyson destroyed him an then took up boxing. Is that correct?

[nrico2006]

I watched it and it does sadden you, especially when you see the fighter he ended up from the fighter he was in his pomp when he won the title against Berbick.  Really sad seeing how he finished against McBride and even the Buster Douglas fight, he just didn't seem to care and didn't put in the preparation as a result.  It had clips of him dishing out an 8 second knock-out at the Junior Olympics and also footage of him being dropped in sparring before the Douglas fight.  Some of the clips showing him training in his early days were unreal, there was one where he was weaving and throwing combos flat out, it really shows realistically how fast he was.  You can see the speed of the top boxers when they are in the ring but you never appreciate how quick they are, but seeing him doing that exercise really showcased it.  It would have been interesting to see how his career would have panned out if Cus had lived longer.

[shawshank]

Tyson was and you could strongly argue, that he was more intimidating than Foreman. How many boxers were beaten before they stepped into the ring with him or beaten in the first few minutes in the ring prior to the fight start just by his intimidatory personna. he was simply sensational in the period from he was 19 until he was 22, unstoppable. It seemed from the documentary and by his own admission that cus was the only person who he trusted, and that he would have done anything for, even all these years later he was holding back the tears when he was talking about him. If only cus had of been around him for another, say even 5 yrs, we would be talking about the greatest of all time.

His childhood was one of fear, lived in neighbourhoods where death was a a good luck penny away. His mother, did I hear that right, she was a prostitute and that was sex was all around him. He fell into gangs and was lifted by the cops at 12, he had 1500$ in his pocket, were talking 1979/80. 

[The Iceman]

I think the argument for Tyson's greatness and the would he/could he? questions will still be discussed and debated for years after we're all dead and gone.

One thing is certain - he had raw talent and ability and was wonderful to watch. He made boxing for me growing up and was one of the reasons I ever pulled on a pair of gloves. Managed to get hold of a bootleg of all his fights on about 7 different DVDs off Ebay about 5 years ago and I think I've watched them through about 10 times.

Boxing lost its glory in the last ten years and there haven't been enough personalities or big fights to inspire the masses. With the emergence of MMA it has further slipped down the slope.  Packy brought some spark back to things but he is one of only a few that I would actually pay to watch......

[Gaffer]

Did any of you watch the docu on Tyson the other night. He was brutaully honest which made the documentary really despairing to watch. It was obvious to see once more how positive or negative experiences in a childs life either makes or breaks him as a human being. I found it truely sad to watch.

didn't see it but i remember hearing somewhere that he was a quiet child who loved pigeons and kept them. Then one day the local neighbourhood bully killed them and tyson destroyed him an then took up boxing. Is that correct?

When and which channel was this programme on?
Maybe its available on Iplayer?

[imtommygunn]

I think it was wednesday night on more4. Have never used 4OD but maybe something on that?

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/tyson/4od I think that is it.

[Gaffer]

I think it was wednesday night on more4. Have never used 4OD but maybe something on that?

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/tyson/4od I think that is it.

Thanks for that

[Harold Disgracey]

Decent performance from Andy Murray there, nice touch from Lacerda raising Murray's hand at the final bell & giving him Latin American belt.

[Celt_Man]

Decent performance from Andy Murray there, nice touch from Lacerda raising Murray's hand at the final bell & giving him Latin American belt.

Aye very nice touch in fairness

[haranguerer]

I think it was wednesday night on more4. Have never used 4OD but maybe something on that?

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/tyson/4od I think that is it.

Thanks for that

Thats a brilliant show. Really enjoyed it. It is sad aright, but I was surprised at how likeable and vulnerable Tyson comes across. Hes profound in places too, capable of being a wild animal, but theres a lot more to him than that.

[CiKe]

Martinez beat Williams in two with one punch KO. Sickening, he was out before he hit the deck and face just smashed into canvas. I hope he is ok

[Atticus_Finch]

CiKe, just watched that fight on youtube there.  Was half tempted to stay up and try get it online, glad i didn't. If anyone is interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZl3h37mEis  (Skip to 10.30 if you're only interested in the knockout)

These two provided one of the best fights of 2009, 12 rounds of action,  Williams took a majority controversial decision. With one a piece, you'd think there could be a trilogy on the cards but martinez has his eyes set on PBF now.

The fight last night was expected to go the distance and once again be a close affair.  But since their first fight Martinez has been in the ascendancy after getting off the deck to beat Pavlik back in April, while Williams was involved in one of the most farcical fights (although not as farcical as the Fraudley vs Haye debacle, that sets the benchmark for farces !) i have ever seen back in May when he fought Cintron.  I posted on here about it at the time and it still is the most bizarre ending to a fight i have ever witnessed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHQA-uznuHk

Fight ended in the fourth round with Cintron falling out of the ring (jumped or tripped? I'll let you decide) he was then injured, carried off on a stretcher with doctors saying he couldn't continue.

Under normal rules (ABC) that fight would be called a no decision as the fight didn't go four rounds .. promoters issued these rules before the fight ... then all of a sudden they said (when it was clear that Cintron wasn't going to return to the ring) under californian rules the fight could be called because it had gone 3 rounds

It's clear which fighter out of Williams and Martinez benefited most from their last fight.  However, didn't think the fight would last two rounds.  Williams didn't find his rhythm for the whole four rounds of the Cintron debacle and wasn't allowed to find any rhythm in this fight either with Martinez landing a couple of hefty blows in the first.  After that fight Williams is now the undisputed middleweight king.  I'd still find it hard to envisage Martinez causing PBF much trouble.  There's no way Mayweather would leave himself as exposed as Williams did last night.

I haven't been on here in a while so brief mention about last week, Fraudley vs Harrison was an absolute disgrace,  I was never in any doubt about who would win but i thought there might have been some resemblance of a contest.  But you can't legislate for a guy not wanting to fight, throwing one single punch in 3 rounds of boxing.  At the end of the fight with haye giving it a bit of yada yada about backing himself for round 3 I was starting to think they were in cahoots.

I would have lost complete faith in boxing if it hadn't been for the fights early the next morning.  There were two great fights on that billing.  The headliner Margarito vs Pacquiao was a great fight.  If there was ever one guy i'd love to see take a pounding it's Margarito,  what he did in my opinion is the most vile act a boxer could ever commit. He didn't deserve to get his shot.  There's no doubt in my mind that he got away with his plaster of paris handwraps against Cotto.  Cotto has never been the same after that fight ..... Anyway,  Margarito sustained some amount of damage in the Pacquiao fight, he fractured his right orbital bone and after the fight it wasn't clear whether he would have been able to fight again.  He had surgery on it and it was successful.  Pacquiao eased up in the last two rounds, i remember him glancing at the ref in the 11th.  After the fight I was reading that he said to the ref at that point "His eyes, his bloody face ... take a look at that". I think Margarito's career would have been over had Pacquiao wanted to finish him. Wish he had i'd backed him to stop Margarito in the 10th & the 11th !

But the fight of the night i felt was on the undercard, Mike Jones vs Jesus Soto Karass.  Unbelievable fight.  Been trying to find highlights on the internet but as of yet have had no joy. If anyone has a link for the highlights, please let me know.  Jones took the fight on majority decision, i think Soto Karass was robbed.  Round of the fight was the second round, Jones unleased a hail of punches, i remember the stats after the round had him throwing over 100 punches, landing 60 compared to something like 5.  Karass withstood some punishment that round and it became clear that Jones had punched himself out. I felt Karass took enough of the subsequent rounds to justify a decision but Jones was awarded a majority decision.

Not that much to look forward to boxing wise for the rest of the year - think Marquez vs Katsidis which is next weekend could be the pick of the bunch.  Katsidis' brother, a well known Australian jockey, was found dead last month.  So his preparations are bound to be impacted considerably.  I'd imagine marquez, one of the few guys to blot Pacquiao's copybook, would take this on decision.