Boxing Thread

[JimStynes]

Attic us I have been following ur posts on this thread for sometime and read with great interest; it is obvious there is very little about the sweet science u do not know. Anyway could you settle an ongoing feud I am having with a friend of mine and tell me in your opinion lb for lb who was the superior boxer between sugar ray and roberto Duran?

Has to be Sugar Ray

[ziggy90]

I have to disagree, its got to be "Manos de Piedra" (my all time favourite fighter). I suppose if you mean "boxer" and not "fighter" most people would plug for Leonard, but I'll always remember the way the young Duran "battered" the great Ken Buchanan. That fight changed all my previous perceptions of the "Noble Art".

[Atticus_Finch]

Hatton spoke of Duran in the build up to this fight and cited him as a reason for his comeback.  In Hatton's gym hangs a picture of him and Duran.  This wasn't the Duran you may have saw at ringside at the fight last night but a pre-surgery Duran who wasn't far off the size of Jabba the house.  A reporter put it to Hatton that when that picture was taken was he disappointed by the condition of the boxing legend.  Hatton replied that no matter what Roberto Duran would be a hero of his but at the same time he could see how people would have looked at him with pity at what he had become.  Hatton didn't ever want anyone to look at him that way and after reaching 15 stone for a 5ft 6 guy he felt that people were now looking at him that way. 

So from that point of view last night could be regarded as a success.  Hatton had a fight on his hands before he even stepped into the ring last night and that was won by him stepping into the ring.

I didn't agree with Hatton's comeback but can fully understand his reasons for doing so.  Ultimately he needed to remove the "What ifs" from his head and hear the adulation of his fans again.  There's no other song I hate more than "Hatton wonderland" but if you youtube the Hatton vs Mayweather weigh in you can not underestimate what a fanatic following he had. When he stepped away from the ring there was a hole in his life which he tried to patch with being a promoter and trainer but I think he needed to step through the ropes one last time to know in his head that it was time to hang up the gloves.

Would agree with Ziggy - I would have Duran as the better p4p fighter out of the two.

I can see why anyone would go for Leonard; out of the fights between them Leonard got the upper hand but taking all of both fighters careers into account then I would have to go for Duran.

He fought in five different decades and even when he was past his best he fought the best around.

He lit up the boxing world like few other characters could have, he was a brawler that would be ready to employ any tactics necessary to come out on top.  The Ken Buchannan fight that Ziggy mentions below is famous for Duran punching Buchanan in the balls, a manoeuvre he got away with.  In Christian Giudice's excellent biography on Duran, "Hands of Stone", Buchanan said he thought of Duran everytime he goes for a piss !

Another great book on not only Duran but the remainder of the famous quartet that he was a part of (Leonard, Hagler and Hearns) is George Kimball's "Four Kings".

If you want a good book for christmas, even as a non-boxing fan I don't think you could go wrong with either of the above.

From reading Four Kings you will realise that while Duran and Leonard were great fighters and would have been so in any era, it was the great rivalry they shared (along with Hagler and Hearns) which made them truly great.  Great fighters need great rivalries, otherwise no matter what their record is it will always be asked of them, "who did they actually fight?" e.g. Joe Calzaghe.

On the subject of fighters with great rivalries, the 24/7 series on Pacquiao vs Marquez IV has started recently and makes for great viewing as always:

Episode 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh4P8E-4210

Episode 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V17WHWQ7Fdg&feature=plcp   (Part 1)
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njMhUNNRLU8&feature=plcp

[ziggy90]

Good post AF, I never knew about those books I'll have to try and get a hold of them. Btw I think we were so lucky to live through what was probably the "Golden Age" of boxing.

[The Iceman]

Fortunately the Golden age you speak of was as you say in our time. Although I was only 2 when Leonard fought Duran I grew up on Hearns and Hagler and Leonard and Duran. Tyson then filled that void and so many great warriors.
Boxing today still has some stars and some moments but doesn't spark the same interest in me anymore. I much prefer MMA now but I will gladly sit down and watch the older fights of my youth.

Feel sorry for Hatton - he has a long way to go I would imagine to accepting defeat and ultimate retirement... an awful way to go out...

[Mikhail Prokhorov]

Attic us I have been following ur posts on this thread for sometime and read with great interest; it is obvious there is very little about the sweet science u do not know. Anyway could you settle an ongoing feud I am having with a friend of mine and tell me in your opinion lb for lb who was the superior boxer between sugar ray and roberto Duran?

long drawn out posts do not an expert make!

[Chief Whip]

Attic us I have been following ur posts on this thread for sometime and read with great interest; it is obvious there is very little about the sweet science u do not know. Anyway could you settle an ongoing feud I am having with a friend of mine and tell me in your opinion lb for lb who was the superior boxer between sugar ray and roberto Duran?

long drawn out posts do not an expert make!

Who's claiming to be an expert?

[Armaghgael]

Anyone know were you could get Tyson Fury Tickets?

[Minder]

What's the craic with Andrew Flintoff boxing, publicity stunt ?

[Tony Baloney]

What's the craic with Andrew Flintoff boxing, publicity stunt ?

Watched the first episode last week. Appears to be more than a publicity stunt as definitely putting in the graft, however I don't think he will carve out a career. He is a big lad and was miles off on fitness but McGuigan's boy has been training him. Worth a watch.

[ziggy90]

Anyone know were you could get Tyson Fury Tickets?

Try Castle Vale halting site. (Sorry, couldn't resist).

[STREET FIGHTER]

Is the Freddie Flintoff fight on tonight?

Can it be watched anywhere?

[nrico2006]

I see the hype must have went to John Joe Nevins head a bit, beaten in the WSB last week.

Looking forward to the Fury fight, always entertaining as he is likely to get wobbled or win in style.  Wonder if David Haye has any plans other than fighting Vitali?  The British Heavyweight scene is exciting at the minute.

[Atticus_Finch]

Is the Freddie Flintoff fight on tonight?

Can it be watched anywhere?

It's on boxnation.  I say you would be able to get a decent stream for it.

David Price has come out and has been quite critical of Flintoff .  He doesn't agree what he's doing and he thinks that he is being disrepectful towards boxing.

I think he's wrong in doing so.  Flintoff's reasons for turning to boxing is very similar to Hatton.  Both have had problems with depression, the discipline and the focus boxing brings would help them deal with depression.

Flintoff has been friendly with Barry McGuigan for a while and he said to him that he would love to give boxing a go, not a charity event/white collar night but he wanted to do it professionally.  By the sounds of it he has been completely dedicated to boxing and put heart and soul into training ... although I saw him in the Cloth Ear in Belfast having a sneaky pint two weeks ago.  Shane McGuigan was with him so it must have been allowed 

[STREET FIGHTER]

Is the Freddie Flintoff fight on tonight?

Can it be watched anywhere?

It's on boxnation.  I say you would be able to get a decent stream for it.

David Price has come out and has been quite critical of Flintoff .  He doesn't agree what he's doing and he thinks that he is being disrepectful towards boxing.

I think he's wrong in doing so.  Flintoff's reasons for turning to boxing is very similar to Hatton.  Both have had problems with depression, the discipline and the focus boxing brings would help them deal with depression.

Flintoff has been friendly with Barry McGuigan for a while and he said to him that he would love to give boxing a go, not a charity event/white collar night but he wanted to do it professionally.  By the sounds of it he has been completely dedicated to boxing and put heart and soul into training ... although I saw him in the Cloth Ear in Belfast having a sneaky pint two weeks ago.  Shane McGuigan was with him so it must have been allowed 

Cheers.

Hard to know what sort of fight it'll be.