Laois u21 hurlers 2016

Started by TheGreatGame, May 23, 2016, 10:06:27 PM

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Ogie

Blue and White what great structures & programmes are in place? What's the current & future plan for Laois hurling? We were blowing and patting ourselves on the back about this great setanta programme,
What had that yielded? ? One Leinster final appearance and no more,
Westmeath are putting in some underage work but Carlow are not, for f**k sake they had 17 togged out for their senior game last week!!!

Look at the poor uptake of coaching courses in the clubs around Laois, everyone wants to do it their own way instead of everyone working off the same blueprint from u6's to senior

I do know & understand that this grade and group didn't get together As much as liked because of so many on the senior panel, but that's the same for every team at u21.

And one more point, why did Joe campion walk away from the county set up, senior & 21, a huge loss to both panels who did appear to be one of the best & committed emerging talents we had,

blueandwhite1

Quote from: Ogie on May 26, 2016, 11:52:41 AM
Blue and White what great structures & programmes are in place? What's the current & future plan for Laois hurling?

? Never mentioned anything about great structures and programmes, just said that there is a level of effort. There is definitely more going on with development squads etc. but I am in complete agreement that it is not good enough. I think that the coaching in the clubs is inadequate and focused on winning local battles rather than developing top class hurlers. Pat Critchley said it last year after watching his minor team lose that he needed to go back down the years to get the skill levels right much earlier. I think if there was more effort and structure around developing lads from U10 to U14 we would get the right level of player going in to U15, U16 and minor level squads. And it should be all about skills development with matches and physical development secondary. We have NEVER got this right over the years. One or two lads emerge who will keep the county team ticking over but the average ability levels of hurlers especially when it comes to intense fast hurling is not acceptable. Because of our small pick we need an exceptional underage programme to be competitive.


blueandwhite1

Just noticed this result from last night in the Celtic challenge U-15 competition:

Laois 0-11  2-17 North Wexford

How an U-15 county team can be beaten by 13 points in a short game by half of a county speaks volumes.

Zooming around

Quote from: TheGreatGame on May 26, 2016, 12:10:49 AM
Quote from: Ogie on May 25, 2016, 10:37:01 PM
As I've suspected for a while all this 'brilliant underage work' we've been supposedly doing is all bullshit,
With no proper structures and programmes in place with each and every manager doing their own thing.
A deadest to Offaly in the senior Sunday week and it's a fairly bleak year and outlook for Laois hurling

I don't know that it's all bullshit, but we just started doing what every other hurling county bar a few were doing anyway, so it was never going to be a case of joining the elite...that just aint gonna happen with our hurling population.  I've made my peace with that, but it doesn't excuse f**king away opportunities like today and this years minors.  The obvious point is the absence of Joe Campion.  Three years ago he was our most important player with the minors.  Likewise Robbie Phelan for this years minors...everyone is entitled to do their own thing, but you are not going anywhere if you're missing your very best hurlers. 

I do agree 100% with you on the manager part Ogie,  there was a serious issue this evening that I'm not willing to delve into on a public forum but it certainly didn't help our cause.  There was some really questionable calls with last years minors too.  What is the answer though?  Suitable candidates are thin on the ground.

The reaction here makes it sound like we hurled really badly, which we didn't by the way.  There were some good displays and I did see a noticeable difference with the guys that are in with the seniors.  The likes of John Lennon has come on in leaps and bounds for example.
 
But some simple things really caught us.  One or two selfish decisions cost us goals, while to a man Carlow hurled for the team.  When we scored the goal that was disallowed I couldn't say from where I was sitting whether it was a square ball or not, but our forwards didn't say a word to the umpire.  The Carlow lads hounded the umpire as any other defence would no matter how legitimate or otherwise the goal was, but our lads just ran back to their positions!  (And given that the Carlow goalie batted out the ball before the Laois forward goaled, it's hard to imagine how it was a square ball).  I saw at least two occasions where a short Carlow puck out was gathered inside the 21' which should result in a throw in but this was never pointed out to the ref or linesman.  Small things, but they all add up.

It really is turning into a horrible, horrible year for Laois hurling.

It's not a foul to take possession inside the 21. You just have to be 20m away when the ball is pucked out.

burdizzo

Quote from: Ogie on May 26, 2016, 11:52:41 AM
And one more point, why did Joe campion walk away from the county set up, senior & 21, a huge loss to both panels who did appear to be one of the best & committed emerging talents we had,

Wasn't it something to do w/ the CB not changing a Borris U/21 fixture?

Zooming around

Quote from: blueandwhite1 on May 26, 2016, 12:39:42 PM
Just noticed this result from last night in the Celtic challenge U-15 competition:

Laois 0-11  2-17 North Wexford

How an U-15 county team can be beaten by 13 points in a short game by half of a county speaks volumes.

These aren't short games, full 60 minutes. I went over to this and Laois were short as many players as they had for different reasons. Wexford had 11 starters from the team that did so well in the Arrabawn. Wexford were by far the better team but scored 1-3 in the last 3 minutes to give the scoreline an unflattering look.

Helix

Quote from: Zooming around on May 26, 2016, 01:04:12 PM
Quote from: blueandwhite1 on May 26, 2016, 12:39:42 PM
Just noticed this result from last night in the Celtic challenge U-15 competition:

Laois 0-11  2-17 North Wexford

How an U-15 county team can be beaten by 13 points in a short game by half of a county speaks volumes.

These aren't short games, full 60 minutes. I went over to this and Laois were short as many players as they had for different reasons. Wexford had 11 starters from the team that did so well in the Arrabawn. Wexford were by far the better team but scored 1-3 in the last 3 minutes to give the scoreline an unflattering look.
State exams around corner has to be acknowledged for loss of lads too.
It's hardly possible to build anything if frustration, bitterness and a mood of helplessness prevail

blueandwhite1

Quote from: Helix on May 26, 2016, 01:09:05 PM
Quote from: Zooming around on May 26, 2016, 01:04:12 PM
Quote from: blueandwhite1 on May 26, 2016, 12:39:42 PM
Just noticed this result from last night in the Celtic challenge U-15 competition:

Laois 0-11  2-17 North Wexford

How an U-15 county team can be beaten by 13 points in a short game by half of a county speaks volumes.

These aren't short games, full 60 minutes. I went over to this and Laois were short as many players as they had for different reasons. Wexford had 11 starters from the team that did so well in the Arrabawn. Wexford were by far the better team but scored 1-3 in the last 3 minutes to give the scoreline an unflattering look.
State exams around corner has to be acknowledged for loss of lads too.

Was waiting for this type of response. How is it always that Laois have 'many missing'? The game was in Rathdowney, not New Ross.

Is there no junior cert in North Wexford? Fact remains that, regardless of excuses, we continue to get hammered at these levels which translates directly to minor, U21 and senior. Yet we seem surprised. It isn't a coincidence that North Wexford could get it together and find enough lads to give us a good beating and we couldn't. Same old story.

If only the few lads that we were missing were there then it would of been a different story - it never is.

TheGreatGame

Quote from: Zooming around on May 26, 2016, 12:58:46 PM
Quote from: TheGreatGame on May 26, 2016, 12:10:49 AM
Quote from: Ogie on May 25, 2016, 10:37:01 PM
As I've suspected for a while all this 'brilliant underage work' we've been supposedly doing is all bullshit,
With no proper structures and programmes in place with each and every manager doing their own thing.
A deadest to Offaly in the senior Sunday week and it's a fairly bleak year and outlook for Laois hurling

I don't know that it's all bullshit, but we just started doing what every other hurling county bar a few were doing anyway, so it was never going to be a case of joining the elite...that just aint gonna happen with our hurling population.  I've made my peace with that, but it doesn't excuse f**king away opportunities like today and this years minors.  The obvious point is the absence of Joe Campion.  Three years ago he was our most important player with the minors.  Likewise Robbie Phelan for this years minors...everyone is entitled to do their own thing, but you are not going anywhere if you're missing your very best hurlers. 

I do agree 100% with you on the manager part Ogie,  there was a serious issue this evening that I'm not willing to delve into on a public forum but it certainly didn't help our cause.  There was some really questionable calls with last years minors too.  What is the answer though?  Suitable candidates are thin on the ground.

The reaction here makes it sound like we hurled really badly, which we didn't by the way.  There were some good displays and I did see a noticeable difference with the guys that are in with the seniors.  The likes of John Lennon has come on in leaps and bounds for example.
 
But some simple things really caught us.  One or two selfish decisions cost us goals, while to a man Carlow hurled for the team.  When we scored the goal that was disallowed I couldn't say from where I was sitting whether it was a square ball or not, but our forwards didn't say a word to the umpire.  The Carlow lads hounded the umpire as any other defence would no matter how legitimate or otherwise the goal was, but our lads just ran back to their positions!  (And given that the Carlow goalie batted out the ball before the Laois forward goaled, it's hard to imagine how it was a square ball).  I saw at least two occasions where a short Carlow puck out was gathered inside the 21' which should result in a throw in but this was never pointed out to the ref or linesman.  Small things, but they all add up.

It really is turning into a horrible, horrible year for Laois hurling.

It's not a foul to take possession inside the 21. You just have to be 20m away when the ball is pucked out.

You have to be outside the 21 when a puck out is taken, that's what refs always tell me anyway!

LOVEGAA

We always seem to be making excuses at every level. Injuries, exams, holidays etc but the bottom line is that we dont seem to have progressed much in the last few years.

At club level underage it is hard to get trainers involved and usually ends up with parents involved and this is where our 1st problem is. Its great to see their involvement but in reality what experience do a lot of these have.

On a number of occasions I have seen involvement from parents to have never hurled themselves or had any interest in game until their little darling started , which I dont think really helps the underage much. No matter how much you try to whittle it out there will usually be favouritism

At county level we seem to put too much into the fitness side of it and the skill and cleverness of game if suffering IMO. Lads are tired looking during games and I think the hunger for a game of hurling is lacking.   Too much maybe?

G@@

One thing that is consistent across Laois teams is lack of game plan. Laois always hurl at every grade with a "panicked" look about them because the players are not tactically aware on the field. This is across ALL teams.

Another point of note - Whenever Laois hurl a 14-man team, the other team always manages to galvanise and beat the 15-man Laois, however when we are reduced to 14-men we always loose... WHY?

What f**king tactics are these hurlers being taught? There is no point in running like dogs in training and doing conveyor-belt drills if you're gonna run around like a headless chicken on the field hitting and hoping.
"I can't get over you - 'till you come out from under him" - Pat Shortt - Class!

LOVEGAA

Quote from: G@@ on May 26, 2016, 03:28:52 PM
One thing that is consistent across Laois teams is lack of game plan. Laois always hurl at every grade with a "panicked" look about them because the players are not tactically aware on the field. This is across ALL teams.

Another point of note - Whenever Laois hurl a 14-man team, the other team always manages to galvanise and beat the 15-man Laois, however when we are reduced to 14-men we always loose... WHY?

What f**king tactics are these hurlers being taught? There is no point in running like dogs in training and doing conveyor-belt drills if you're gonna run around like a headless chicken on the field hitting and hoping.


I dont think we have any real tactics TBH. In all our fitness training we cant even out run teams and our skill level is way off the mark.
The mentality of a lot of players is get the ball and just hit as far up field as possible regardless if anyone there to get it!

I see in our club the amount of lads that are so one sided its unbelievable and I cant understand why that isnt sorted an underage .
This is the time to sort the basics of the game

finbar o tool

2 very important comments made above:

"Look at the poor uptake of coaching courses in the clubs around Laois"

"At club level underage it is hard to get trainers involved and usually ends up with parents involved and this is where our 1st problem is"

people are afraid to take on these jobs because they think they wont be able for it in a lot of cases. but with a bit of persuasion and loads of support from club and county board including the coaching courses and club coaching officer, every club should be able to get more people on board. then we need to get all coaches, especially underage, using roughly the same guidelines.

at the start of every year, each club need to send in a list of coaches they have put in place for each grade. the county board should then check that all these people have at least the foundation level coaching course completed, if they haven't then the club is notified these people must attend the foundation courses, which will be held on the following dates.....
the county board then need to get the development officers to create a plan for each coach to follow depending on the age group they are with.
the club coaching officer should have at least Level 1 coaching course done and he must oversee that the coaches within the club are following the plan they were given.
it would be a start anyway. we must coach the coaches correctly or we are at nothing.

as for our U21s and seniors, as i said earlier, the coaching has to be wrong for these results to be coming in the way they are. you watch the next championship match between the 'big' teams, watch how they recycle the ball, how they use teamwork and movement to keep ball and not give away possession cheaply, how they create goal chances when they need to be created. all that on top of coaching the basics properly and with speed, and getting their heads in the right place.
An amateur requires a personal commitment that money cannot buy

LOVEGAA

Agree totally with above.
Hard to see clubs giving that much commitment but in reality this is what needs to be done

Our Minors U21s and Seniors dont just wake up and become hurlers. It has to be started at underage and worked the whole way up along.

I have watched some underage training and am amazed at the stupid things that are being done.
Hurl, ball and a wall would be a good place to start with young lads and work from both sides.   Very basic but important skill.

Running laps around a field for 20 mins/ half hour is no good for older lads.  More matches would be of benefit to them

Also as long as county lads are not allowed to hurl with their clubs we are wasting our time ( most especially bench/extended panel).

Match practice better than 5 laps of field any day

Helix

Excellent points above from many regarding coaching education and whats required:

One of the big things I've found over the years from coaching at juvenile level in Laois is the over reliance of Setanta programme for our players. My point is around clubs (not all clubs) not having appropriate coaching structures/education and clubs using the Setanta programme as a means to bring player up to scratch and compensate for inadequate training at club level.
If clubs were delivering a higher standard player through appropriate training, the Setanta would up its standards and potentially a more elite bunch would appear.
It's hardly possible to build anything if frustration, bitterness and a mood of helplessness prevail