VAR? For or against

Started by Denn Forever, March 07, 2019, 11:37:07 AM

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Quote from: David McKeown on June 24, 2019, 09:13:27 AM
I've long been against VAR for a number of reasons.

1. It creates a hierarchy of rules. The decision to award a throw in that leads to the ball being thrown into the box which leads to the handball has just as much impact as the decision to award the handball but one is subject to VAR the other is not.
2. The injustice of non reviewable wrong decisions is increased.
3. It slows down the game dramatically.
4. I've seen a few but only a few images of how offside lines need to be adjusted to take account of the angle the camera is at and how lenses work. I assume FIFA have access to adjusted images but I'd question accuracy of non fixed cameras in this regard. Chelsea v Spurs in the Carabao Cup was a great example of this. Chelsea's non calibrated camera showed Kane to be well offside. Sky's calibrated camera showed he was on.
5. It doesn't seem to have improved decision making or lead to greater consistency. Take Spurs v Man City in CL. Spurs scores but the VAR official thought it was handball who referred it to the on pitch ref who disagreed. If those officials were reversed the goal wouldn't have stood. VAR is being used too widely and is only shifting the point at which people argue with officials decisions.
6. It's used for subjective decisions including offside.

I have to say that I was originally a fan of VAR coming in on the basis that technology shoudl be used to get the "right" decision whereever possible. However, in practice I would agree with a lot of these points. In my mind VAR only works in sports where there are a) A lot of breaks in play (Cricket/American Football/Tennis) and b) Checks are mainly used for a matter of fact. (Did a ball hit the line?, Was receiver's foot in bounds?, Did ball carry to fielder? etc). As soon as you start bringing in any area of subjectivity or if you have to review decisions well after the play has moved on its a problem.

In soccer Goalline technology has worked well (despite my earlier comment  :P) as it doesnt interfere in the game and just confirms a matter of fact. I would be all for using it for offside in terms of player location (factual) but not for making the call if the forward is interfering with play (subjective). HOwever, as DMK says, at that point you are creating a hierarchy of rules which causes even greater confusion.

Main Street

One thing that makes VAR look worse than it is,  is the way it's used to support the controversial new interpretation of what is a hand ball penalty. None no more so than last night's penaly awarded to the Netherlands.The Japan player was hit on the arm at very close range, even in that millisecond of time she had drawn her arm by her side to avoid a possible ball to arm. Nevertheless the penalty was awarded and she was yellow carded to boot. What next, armless players because refs can't be trusted to arbitrate on the spot for better or for worse?

Hound

Quote from: Main Street on June 26, 2019, 08:35:11 AM
One thing that makes VAR look worse than it is,  is the way it's used to support the controversial new interpretation of what is a hand ball penalty. None no more so than last night's penaly awarded to the Netherlands.The Japan player was hit on the arm at very close range, even in that millisecond of time she had drawn her arm by her side to avoid a possible ball to arm. Nevertheless the penalty was awarded and she was yellow carded to boot. What next, armless players because refs can't be trusted to arbitrate on the spot for better or for worse?
Well it's the rule's fault rather than the ref's.

Although last night had me in two minds. It certainly wasn't on purpose and her hand was by her side. But I think there was every chance that would have been a goal had it not hit the Japan defender on the arm, so I don't think a penalty was unjust in that circumstance. However, I wouldn't give a yellow card for it.

Main Street

Quote from: Hound on June 26, 2019, 12:02:34 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 26, 2019, 08:35:11 AM
One thing that makes VAR look worse than it is,  is the way it's used to support the controversial new interpretation of what is a hand ball penalty. None no more so than last night's penaly awarded to the Netherlands.The Japan player was hit on the arm at very close range, even in that millisecond of time she had drawn her arm by her side to avoid a possible ball to arm. Nevertheless the penalty was awarded and she was yellow carded to boot. What next, armless players because refs can't be trusted to arbitrate on the spot for better or for worse?
Well it's the rule's fault rather than the ref's.

Although last night had me in two minds. It certainly wasn't on purpose and her hand was by her side. But I think there was every chance that would have been a goal had it not hit the Japan defender on the arm, so I don't think a penalty was unjust in that circumstance. However, I wouldn't give a yellow card for it.
Of course it's the rule and not the refs.
That was a stonewall non penalty under the old rule, she had positioned her arm into the most natural humanly possible position, her arm was stuck to her body, impressive considering the ball was blasted at her from a meter out.

Strange the ref did not go to VAR for the Dutch handball just before blowing the final whistle, and that Dutch hand was held away from the body, though that's not a requirement these days.

lurganblue

Before the season started i was looking forward to this being implemented in the Premier League but each weekend it has been made clear that it is a total farce.  The individuals in control of it do not have the courage to make the correct decisions.

That was an absolute shocker for the villa equaliser at Selhurst Park.  A poor refereeing decision is one thing but it to be compounded by the lack of intervention from VAR makes it worse.

How many clear penalties have they not given already? They cant even give a red card for a tackle like Tielemans at the weekend which was a leg breaker.

So far the only thing it has done is rule out a goal for an armpit being offside and another goal for a handball against City.

If it isnt going to be used to overturn clear errors then get rid of it completely.

Denn Forever

Sheffield Und. must love it.  One of their goals disallowed because player on the right  wing had his foot on the VAR offside line. Note: players must not wear brightly coloured boots.  Decision times taking longer.

I have more respect for a man
that says what he means and
means what he says...

Dougal Maguire

I hate it. The problem in football wasn't borderline offsides or dodgy handball penalties, as most managers would have agreed they tend to even themselves out over a season, the main problem was cheating with players diving in the penalty box and in my opinion that's all VAR should be used for. There was 6 minutes added time in the Spurs match yesterday caused by prolonged VAR deliberations
Careful now

Gmac

Quote from: Denn Forever on November 10, 2019, 11:01:39 AM
Sheffield Und. must love it.  One of their goals disallowed because player on the right  wing had his foot on the VAR offside line. Note: players must not wear brightly coloured boots.  Decision times taking longer.
looked like defender in middle shoulder was keeping him on side does var only use boots for its lines ?

laoislad

Quote from: Gmac on November 10, 2019, 03:50:26 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 10, 2019, 11:01:39 AM
Sheffield Und. must love it.  One of their goals disallowed because player on the right  wing had his foot on the VAR offside line. Note: players must not wear brightly coloured boots.  Decision times taking longer.
looked like defender in middle shoulder was keeping him on side does var only use boots for its lines ?
They were using armpits last week. ::)
When you think you're fucked you're only about 40% fucked.

clarshack

Should have been called back for a penalty to City.

clarshack

Thought Salah was just offside for the 2nd goal.

Ambrose

Quote from: clarshack on November 10, 2019, 04:41:29 PM
Should have been called back for a penalty to City.

That was just after Silva hand passed the ball across the large parallelogram.

Next goal is vital.
You can't live off history and tradition forever

clarshack

Liverpool get away with another handball in the penalty area.
Give them the trophy now.

J70

Quote from: clarshack on November 10, 2019, 06:15:32 PM
Liverpool get away with another handball in the penalty area.
Give them the trophy now.

Never a penalty in a million years. You can't even argue to unnatural position angle with that one.

First half one different.

laoislad

Quote from: clarshack on November 10, 2019, 06:15:32 PM
Liverpool get away with another handball in the penalty area.
Give them the trophy now.

Salty  ;D
If you think that was a peno then you would also have to think the first wasn't as Silva handled the ball first, and the Silva handball was as much as a handball as that second incident.
When you think you're fucked you're only about 40% fucked.