Official Irish Football Association Thread (Northern Ireland)

[BennyCake]

Re; the court ruling on northern born players - I think Darron Gibson was the first player that raised this issue when he declared for ROI. If the IFA had won that ruling, Darron Gibson would've played for no international team rather than line out for NI. I thought it was daft that the IFA took it that far. I think it proved that the IFA hierarchy showed their naivety of the complexities of life in the North.

[michaelg]

Re; the court ruling on northern born players - I think Darron Gibson was the first player that raised this issue when he declared for ROI. If the IFA had won that ruling, Darron Gibson would've played for no international team rather than line out for NI. I thought it was daft that the IFA took it that far. I think it proved that the IFA hierarchy showed their naivety of the complexities of life in the North.

Did Gibson not fall out with the IFA over another matter?  I was told that that the incident in question was the main driver for him jumping ship.

[David McKeown]

Re; the court ruling on northern born players - I think Darron Gibson was the first player that raised this issue when he declared for ROI. If the IFA had won that ruling, Darron Gibson would've played for no international team rather than line out for NI. I thought it was daft that the IFA took it that far. I think it proved that the IFA hierarchy showed their naivety of the complexities of life in the North.

It was Daniel Kearns that the IFA took the case against to the Court of Arbitration sport but as was pointed out in that ruling, this wasn't a new issue at all and was in no way changed by the Good Friday agreement or any particular recent legislative provision.

[David McKeown]

We seem to be going round in circles .
Michaelg , 3 questions for you.
1.Do you accept the right of any professional footballer to play for The country of their choice ( that they are eligible to play for under FIFA rules & an international agreement between sovereign states) as an adult , regardless of who they played for as a young developing player?

2. Do you respect that a large percentage of NI population including professional footballers have no affinity for the NI state and NI team?

3. Do you respect that despite significant efforts by the IFA there remain several examples of how the NI soccer team remains aligned to the British as opposed to Irish identity in NI ?

With respect Question 1, the situation is not going to change, so fair enough if a young player from NI wants to play for the ROI.  The issue, as I have stated above, is with those players taking up places on NI underage teams when they no intention  of playing for the senior team.
As for Question 2, of course I realise that a large % of the  NI population has no affinity for the NI state / team.
With respect Question 3, I firmly believe that the NI team should have it's own anthem in the same way that Scotland and  Wales do.  This, however, would likely have little or no effect given some folk's political views / lack of affinity to NI as a political entity (See Question 2!). The anthem thing is just another example of something that's used to criticise the NI football team.  If they did change it, the folk on here who are opposed to the NI team, would just find something else to complain about and criticise, and catholics who supported  the team would  still be Uncle Toms etc etc.

With respect to 1. Where do you stand on the gentlemans agreement between the IFA and the FAI that underage players from the North won't be selected for underage teams for the Republic?

In respect of 3 I entirely agree my view won't change on the IFA until they acknowledge the offence their position of taking players to court to try and prevent them playing for their country has caused and the continued difficulty their law breaking stance on the issue causes. The anthem is immaterial for me particularly when compared to that

Just to clarify, by underage players do you mean the schoolboy teams?
As for your second point, and I am not trying to annoy you here, but can you not see why they chose that course of action? Also, what do you mean by 'the continued difficulty their law breaking stance on the issue causes'?

My understanding of the agreement between the two bodies is the FAI will not select anyone born in the north for representative teams below under 21. Not sure if that includes u21.

I can of course see the selfish reason that the IFA choose to highlight as their reason for challenging a long existing policy but in so doing they have acted in a way that is highly offensive to the people of Northern Ireland who identify as Irish. The IFA were either aware of this and carried on regardless or were ignorant in the extreme neither of which scenarios should engendered them to a sizeable proportion of the Northern Ireland team.

To make matters worse since they took Kearns to court and were roundly told were to go and how nonsense and hypocritical their argument was rather than apologise they have secured an amazing agreement with the FAI that is far more than they deserve, is anti-competitive and of questionable legality and not satisfied with that they have their manager peddled out more insulting misleading propaganda in an attempt to further restrict the rights of people in NI. That's what I have a problem with.

[michaelg]

We seem to be going round in circles .
Michaelg , 3 questions for you.
1.Do you accept the right of any professional footballer to play for The country of their choice ( that they are eligible to play for under FIFA rules & an international agreement between sovereign states) as an adult , regardless of who they played for as a young developing player?

2. Do you respect that a large percentage of NI population including professional footballers have no affinity for the NI state and NI team?

3. Do you respect that despite significant efforts by the IFA there remain several examples of how the NI soccer team remains aligned to the British as opposed to Irish identity in NI ?

With respect Question 1, the situation is not going to change, so fair enough if a young player from NI wants to play for the ROI.  The issue, as I have stated above, is with those players taking up places on NI underage teams when they no intention  of playing for the senior team.
As for Question 2, of course I realise that a large % of the  NI population has no affinity for the NI state / team.
With respect Question 3, I firmly believe that the NI team should have it's own anthem in the same way that Scotland and  Wales do.  This, however, would likely have little or no effect given some folk's political views / lack of affinity to NI as a political entity (See Question 2!). The anthem thing is just another example of something that's used to criticise the NI football team.  If they did change it, the folk on here who are opposed to the NI team, would just find something else to complain about and criticise, and catholics who supported  the team would  still be Uncle Toms etc etc.

With respect to 1. Where do you stand on the gentlemans agreement between the IFA and the FAI that underage players from the North won't be selected for underage teams for the Republic?

In respect of 3 I entirely agree my view won't change on the IFA until they acknowledge the offence their position of taking players to court to try and prevent them playing for their country has caused and the continued difficulty their law breaking stance on the issue causes. The anthem is immaterial for me particularly when compared to that

Just to clarify, by underage players do you mean the schoolboy teams?
As for your second point, and I am not trying to annoy you here, but can you not see why they chose that course of action? Also, what do you mean by 'the continued difficulty their law breaking stance on the issue causes'?

My understanding of the agreement between the two bodies is the FAI will not select anyone born in the north for representative teams below under 21. Not sure if that includes u21.

I can of course see the selfish reason that the IFA choose to highlight as their reason for challenging a long existing policy but in so doing they have acted in a way that is highly offensive to the people of Northern Ireland who identify as Irish. The IFA were either aware of this and carried on regardless or were ignorant in the extreme neither of which scenarios should engendered them to a sizeable proportion of the Northern Ireland team.

To make matters worse since they took Kearns to court and were roundly told were to go and how nonsense and hypocritical their argument was rather than apologise they have secured an amazing agreement with the FAI that is far more than they deserve, is anti-competitive and of questionable legality and not satisfied with that they have their manager peddled out more insulting misleading propaganda in an attempt to further restrict the rights of people in NI. That's what I have a problem with.

My understanding is that no such agreement was reached.

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2018/03/07/news/fai-not-planning-to-change-recruitment-policy-over-northern-born-players-1271941/

[David McKeown]

That article suggests to me an agreement does exist until u16. I thought it was to at least u18 my bad.

This blog is pretty decent at explaining the situation although it is very long.

https://playereligibilityinireland.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/fifa-player-eligibility-in-context-of.html?m=1

[michaelg]

That article suggests to me an agreement does exist until u16. I thought it was to at least u18 my bad.

This blog is pretty decent at explaining the situation although it is very long.

https://playereligibilityinireland.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/fifa-player-eligibility-in-context-of.html?m=1

The issue is quite complex and a bit of a melt.  I certainly do not profess to be an expert.  I have heard, however, that the NI / ROI situation was quite unique and that the IFA were confident that they would win the case when they pursued it. 

As for the U16 thing, I think that this has much to do with logistics and missing school time, attending trials etc.

[David McKeown]

That article suggests to me an agreement does exist until u16. I thought it was to at least u18 my bad.

This blog is pretty decent at explaining the situation although it is very long.

https://playereligibilityinireland.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/fifa-player-eligibility-in-context-of.html?m=1

The issue is quite complex and a bit of a melt.  I certainly do not profess to be an expert.  I have heard, however, that the NI / ROI situation was quite unique and that the IFA were confident that they would win the case when they pursued it. 

As for the U16 thing, I think that this has much to do with logistics and missing school time, attending trials etc.

Based purely on personal experience and absolutely no imperical data I don't believe that's the case. When I started coaching in 2006 through to 2010 or 2011 I know of two approaches from the FAI wanting details on players at my club so they could talk to them about their interest in attending trials, one of those occasions involving McNair (although I wasn't coaching his team at the time). During that period I heard of a number of similar stories from other clubs. Not an inordinate amount. Maybe 3 or 4 clubs around Easter every year. Since 2011 I don't recall hearing of a single approach. Now that may be coincidence but having discussed it with others involved in youth football I tend to believe it was a deliberate change of policy owing to an agreement between the two associations.

I don't know why the IFA thought they had a chance of winning it was a pretty well established position by the time they took it to court.

[Applesisapples]

Are there not two brothers from Belfast in the ROI youth system? On the anthem, most followers of ROI do so on the basis that it it is their national allegiance and they do not recognise NI. It would make it easier for nationalist who decide to represent NI but would alienate the majority of NI followers. On youth players, everyone's taxes are used in the development of soccer, so what is the issue. Those resources don't belong exclusively to the IFA.

[AQMP]

What happened around the Cup Final last week is further evidence (in my opinion) that 20 years after the GFA we now live in a more divided society than we did during the Troubles.

[Applesisapples]

What happened around the Cup Final last week is further evidence (in my opinion) that 20 years after the GFA we now live in a more divided society than we did during the Troubles.

And it will unfortunately continue to be divided so long as the state reflects only one community.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

Well Michael would recount that wouldn't he?
He came out of this , very badly , showing a complete absence of respect and understanding for those in NI who clearly affiliate with the ROI team.
On behalf of the IFA , and for his own benefit, he champions this nonsense of FAI not being allowed to "target" players who want to play for them. Michael O'Neill chose to play for NI and clearly has an affinity with them.

In fairness to Michael O'Neill the exact point he asked was that the Republic not do the paperwork to formally transfer the player until they go to select them.  You only get a chance to apply to change once.  He made the point that at least one player who would have played for the North and out of the picture with the Republic, couldn't because he had already signed.

He acknowledged the right of Nationalists to play for the Republic but rightly identified a small group of players left isolated.  Given his small player base he had every right as a manager to try and work it out.

He was pretty hamfisted in his approach and jibing the FAI/Martin O'Neill wasn't going to get him a sympathetic hearing.  However, if one neutralizes the emotional response about nationality, he has a fair request.

/Jim.

[AQMP]

Re; the court ruling on northern born players - I think Darron Gibson was the first player that raised this issue when he declared for ROI. If the IFA had won that ruling, Darron Gibson would've played for no international team rather than line out for NI. I thought it was daft that the IFA took it that far. I think it proved that the IFA hierarchy showed their naivety of the complexities of life in the North.

I seem to remember Ger Crossley from Belfast was in Brian Kerr's underage winning sides with Richard Dunne, Damien Duff and Robbie Keane in the late 1990s.  Never made the breakthrough at Celtic had to retire early due to injury.

[Taylor]

Football for all is horseshit when GSTQ is played. It is as simple as that.

Do the Scots or Welsh play GSTQ before a cup final?

How can you expect Nationalists to change their thought process when you refuse to give an inch

[6th sam]

What happened around the Cup Final last week is further evidence (in my opinion) that 20 years after the GFA we now live in a more divided society than we did during the Troubles.

And it will unfortunately continue to be divided so long as the state reflects only one community.

That's the core issue, that pervades all problems here.

No recognition or respect from the state , never mind unionism For an Irish identity here.

Unionism and the state had the opportunity in the 20 years post GFA to positively promote Irish identity as equal to British identity, which was the basic tenet of the GFA. It still hasn't happened.

This falsely manufactured statelet has had every opportunity for a century , to get its act together , but has failed.