(Spoilers)Making a Murderer - for those who have watched all 10

[PadraicHenryPearse]

What's your theory? Is Avery Innocent or guilty? Was Brendan Dassey involved?

What does inconsistent mean?

[stew]

 Steven Avery  is a low life piece of crap from Manitowoc in Wisconsin who killed a woman after raping her and beating her to death, and then dismembering her and setting her on fire?

He is one guilty ****, a low life family of animals the Avery family, I had a Retail Store in Manitowoc when this was going on, these people are reviled in the area and that hoor is 100% Guilty all day long, as is his accomplice Dassey.

[Syferus]

Steven Avery  is a low life piece of crap from Manitowoc in Wisconsin who killed a woman after raping her and beating her to death, and then dismembering her and setting her on fire?

He is one guilty ****, a low life family of animals the Avery family, I had a Retail Store in Manitowoc when this was going on, these people are reviled in the area and that hoor is 100% Guilty all day long, as is his accomplice Dassey.

It's pretty obvious he was set up. Wind your neck in.

[stew]

Steven Avery  is a low life piece of crap from Manitowoc in Wisconsin who killed a woman after raping her and beating her to death, and then dismembering her and setting her on fire?

He is one guilty ****, a low life family of animals the Avery family, I had a Retail Store in Manitowoc when this was going on, these people are reviled in the area and that hoor is 100% Guilty all day long, as is his accomplice Dassey.

It's pretty obvious he was set up. Wind your neck in.

You are off your rocker if you think he was set up, I lived 35 miles from this maggot and I know all about his past, he is pond scum but do tell how you know he was set up Syferus?

The woman went to his farm for a photo shoot on a car and he raped her, butchered her and burnt her body, follow the evidence ffs!

Do you believe that the moon landing never happened? Jesus wept!

[stew]

Former Wisconsin state prosecutor Ken Kratz says Netflix's Making a Murderer left out some key pieces of evidence against Steven Avery in its 10-part docu-series.

"You don't want to muddy up a perfectly good conspiracy movie with what actually happened," Kratz tells PEOPLE by email, "and certainly not provide the audience with the evidence the jury considered to reject that claim."

Filmed and produced over ten years, Making a Murderer examines the twist-filled case of Avery, a Wisconsin man who was released from prison after being exonerated for sexual assault only to be arrested again and convicted for the murder of a young photographer, Teresa Halbach.

Avery is currently serving life in prison without the possibility of parole. But he maintains his innocence and believes he was framed in retribution for filing a $36 million lawsuit against the county and authorities. (Avery's nephew, Brendan Dassey, was also convicted for her murder and will be eligible for parole in 2048.)

A 'Targeted' Crime?
Kratz, who says he was contacted by filmmakers Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos but declined to be interviewed for the series, believes Avery "targeted" Halbach.

He cites Halbach's Oct. 10, 2005 visit to the property owned by Avery's family for a photo shoot for AutoTrader magazine: According to Kratz, Avery allegedly opened his door "just wearing a towel."

"She was creeped out [by him]," Kratz says by phone, later adding by email: "She [went to her employer and] said she would not go back because she was scared of him."

At 8:12 a.m. on Oct. 31, the day Halbach was killed, Kratz says Avery called AutoTrader magazine and asked them to send "that same girl who was here last time." He says that Avery knew Halbach was leery of him, so he allegedly gave his sister's name and number to "trick" Halbach into coming.

"Phone records show three calls from Avery to Teresa's cell phone on Oct. 31," says Kratz. "One at 2:24 [p.m.], and one at 2:35 – both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn't know it him...both placed before she arrives.

"Then one last call at 4:35 p.m., without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up...so tries to establish the alibi call after she's already been there, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn't need the *67 feature for that last call."

Steven Avery Prosecutor Says Netflix Series Omitted Key Evidence: 'You Don't Want to Muddy Up a Perfectly Good Conspiracy Movie'| Netflix, Crime & Courts, Murder, True Crime, TV News
Steven Avery
DAN POWERS / POST-CRESENT / AP
Kratz Claims Further Evidence Against Avery
During his time in prison for a rape he was later cleared of, Kratz says Avery allegedly "told another inmate of his intent to build a 'torture chamber' so he could rape, torture and kill young women when he was released." Kratz adds, "He even drew a diagram."

Kratz also claims that "another inmate was told by Avery that the way to get rid of a body is to 'burn it.' " Halbach's bones were discovered in the fire pit behind Avery's house. He says "were 'intertwined' with the steel belts, left over from the car tires Avery threw on the fire to burn," says Kratz, disputing the defense's allegation that Halbach was burned elsewhere and her bones were later moved.

"Suggesting that some human bones found elsewhere – never identified as Teresa's – were from this murder was never established," he adds.

• Want to keep up with the latest crime coverage? Click here to get breaking crime news, ongoing trial coverage and details of intriguing unsolved cases in the True Crime Newsletter.

According to Kratz, Avery's DNA, which he says was not taken from his blood, was also found under the hood of Halbach's car, a Toyota RAV4. "How did his DNA get under the hood if Avery never touched her car? Do the cops have a vial of Avery's sweat?" asks Kratz. Defense attorneys alleged that Avery's blood, which was found in Halbach's car, may have been planted, taken from a vial of Avery's blood that was 11 years old.

Kratz also claims that a bullet, recovered from Avery's garage, couldn't possibly have been planted by police, as the defense also alleged. "Ballistics said the bullet found in the garage was fired by Avery's rifle, which was in a police evidence locker since Nov. 6, 2005," says Kratz. "If the cops planted the bullet, how did they get one fired from [Avery's] gun? This rifle, hanging over Avery's bed, is the source of the bullet found in the garage, with Teresa's DNA on it. The bullet had to be fired before Nov. 5."

Kratz, who resigned from his position as Calumet County District Attorney in 2010 following a sexting scandal, admitted that he sent suggestive messages to a crime victim and described his behavior as "deplorable" in an email. He says he had a prescription drug problem at the time. He believes, however, that "it's exceedingly unfair to use that to characterize me as morally unfit" in Making a Murderer and says his later behavior shouldn't have any bearing on the case.

"[Halbach's murder] was planned weeks ahead of time," says Kratz. "[Avery] asked for that same girl to be sent. He was ready for her."
Share this story:

[Syferus]

Former Wisconsin state prosecutor Ken Kratz says Netflix's Making a Murderer left out some key pieces of evidence against Steven Avery in its 10-part docu-series.

"You don't want to muddy up a perfectly good conspiracy movie with what actually happened," Kratz tells PEOPLE by email, "and certainly not provide the audience with the evidence the jury considered to reject that claim."

Filmed and produced over ten years, Making a Murderer examines the twist-filled case of Avery, a Wisconsin man who was released from prison after being exonerated for sexual assault only to be arrested again and convicted for the murder of a young photographer, Teresa Halbach.

Avery is currently serving life in prison without the possibility of parole. But he maintains his innocence and believes he was framed in retribution for filing a $36 million lawsuit against the county and authorities. (Avery's nephew, Brendan Dassey, was also convicted for her murder and will be eligible for parole in 2048.)

A 'Targeted' Crime?
Kratz, who says he was contacted by filmmakers Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos but declined to be interviewed for the series, believes Avery "targeted" Halbach.

He cites Halbach's Oct. 10, 2005 visit to the property owned by Avery's family for a photo shoot for AutoTrader magazine: According to Kratz, Avery allegedly opened his door "just wearing a towel."

"She was creeped out [by him]," Kratz says by phone, later adding by email: "She [went to her employer and] said she would not go back because she was scared of him."

At 8:12 a.m. on Oct. 31, the day Halbach was killed, Kratz says Avery called AutoTrader magazine and asked them to send "that same girl who was here last time." He says that Avery knew Halbach was leery of him, so he allegedly gave his sister's name and number to "trick" Halbach into coming.

"Phone records show three calls from Avery to Teresa's cell phone on Oct. 31," says Kratz. "One at 2:24 [p.m.], and one at 2:35 – both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn't know it him...both placed before she arrives.

"Then one last call at 4:35 p.m., without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up...so tries to establish the alibi call after she's already been there, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn't need the *67 feature for that last call."

Steven Avery Prosecutor Says Netflix Series Omitted Key Evidence: 'You Don't Want to Muddy Up a Perfectly Good Conspiracy Movie'| Netflix, Crime & Courts, Murder, True Crime, TV News
Steven Avery
DAN POWERS / POST-CRESENT / AP
Kratz Claims Further Evidence Against Avery
During his time in prison for a rape he was later cleared of, Kratz says Avery allegedly "told another inmate of his intent to build a 'torture chamber' so he could rape, torture and kill young women when he was released." Kratz adds, "He even drew a diagram."

Kratz also claims that "another inmate was told by Avery that the way to get rid of a body is to 'burn it.' " Halbach's bones were discovered in the fire pit behind Avery's house. He says "were 'intertwined' with the steel belts, left over from the car tires Avery threw on the fire to burn," says Kratz, disputing the defense's allegation that Halbach was burned elsewhere and her bones were later moved.

"Suggesting that some human bones found elsewhere – never identified as Teresa's – were from this murder was never established," he adds.

• Want to keep up with the latest crime coverage? Click here to get breaking crime news, ongoing trial coverage and details of intriguing unsolved cases in the True Crime Newsletter.

According to Kratz, Avery's DNA, which he says was not taken from his blood, was also found under the hood of Halbach's car, a Toyota RAV4. "How did his DNA get under the hood if Avery never touched her car? Do the cops have a vial of Avery's sweat?" asks Kratz. Defense attorneys alleged that Avery's blood, which was found in Halbach's car, may have been planted, taken from a vial of Avery's blood that was 11 years old.

Kratz also claims that a bullet, recovered from Avery's garage, couldn't possibly have been planted by police, as the defense also alleged. "Ballistics said the bullet found in the garage was fired by Avery's rifle, which was in a police evidence locker since Nov. 6, 2005," says Kratz. "If the cops planted the bullet, how did they get one fired from [Avery's] gun? This rifle, hanging over Avery's bed, is the source of the bullet found in the garage, with Teresa's DNA on it. The bullet had to be fired before Nov. 5."

Kratz, who resigned from his position as Calumet County District Attorney in 2010 following a sexting scandal, admitted that he sent suggestive messages to a crime victim and described his behavior as "deplorable" in an email. He says he had a prescription drug problem at the time. He believes, however, that "it's exceedingly unfair to use that to characterize me as morally unfit" in Making a Murderer and says his later behavior shouldn't have any bearing on the case.

"[Halbach's murder] was planned weeks ahead of time," says Kratz. "[Avery] asked for that same girl to be sent. He was ready for her."
Share this story:

If you actually watched the case you'd know full well Ken Kratz is the most untrustworthy party in the whole debacle. A sex offender who tried to use the high profile nature of this case to prevent his higher-ups from firing him.

[stew]

Former Wisconsin state prosecutor Ken Kratz says Netflix's Making a Murderer left out some key pieces of evidence against Steven Avery in its 10-part docu-series.

"You don't want to muddy up a perfectly good conspiracy movie with what actually happened," Kratz tells PEOPLE by email, "and certainly not provide the audience with the evidence the jury considered to reject that claim."

Filmed and produced over ten years, Making a Murderer examines the twist-filled case of Avery, a Wisconsin man who was released from prison after being exonerated for sexual assault only to be arrested again and convicted for the murder of a young photographer, Teresa Halbach.

Avery is currently serving life in prison without the possibility of parole. But he maintains his innocence and believes he was framed in retribution for filing a $36 million lawsuit against the county and authorities. (Avery's nephew, Brendan Dassey, was also convicted for her murder and will be eligible for parole in 2048.)

A 'Targeted' Crime?
Kratz, who says he was contacted by filmmakers Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos but declined to be interviewed for the series, believes Avery "targeted" Halbach.

He cites Halbach's Oct. 10, 2005 visit to the property owned by Avery's family for a photo shoot for AutoTrader magazine: According to Kratz, Avery allegedly opened his door "just wearing a towel."

"She was creeped out [by him]," Kratz says by phone, later adding by email: "She [went to her employer and] said she would not go back because she was scared of him."

At 8:12 a.m. on Oct. 31, the day Halbach was killed, Kratz says Avery called AutoTrader magazine and asked them to send "that same girl who was here last time." He says that Avery knew Halbach was leery of him, so he allegedly gave his sister's name and number to "trick" Halbach into coming.

"Phone records show three calls from Avery to Teresa's cell phone on Oct. 31," says Kratz. "One at 2:24 [p.m.], and one at 2:35 – both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn't know it him...both placed before she arrives.

"Then one last call at 4:35 p.m., without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up...so tries to establish the alibi call after she's already been there, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn't need the *67 feature for that last call."

Steven Avery Prosecutor Says Netflix Series Omitted Key Evidence: 'You Don't Want to Muddy Up a Perfectly Good Conspiracy Movie'| Netflix, Crime & Courts, Murder, True Crime, TV News
Steven Avery
DAN POWERS / POST-CRESENT / AP
Kratz Claims Further Evidence Against Avery
During his time in prison for a rape he was later cleared of, Kratz says Avery allegedly "told another inmate of his intent to build a 'torture chamber' so he could rape, torture and kill young women when he was released." Kratz adds, "He even drew a diagram."

Kratz also claims that "another inmate was told by Avery that the way to get rid of a body is to 'burn it.' " Halbach's bones were discovered in the fire pit behind Avery's house. He says "were 'intertwined' with the steel belts, left over from the car tires Avery threw on the fire to burn," says Kratz, disputing the defense's allegation that Halbach was burned elsewhere and her bones were later moved.

"Suggesting that some human bones found elsewhere – never identified as Teresa's – were from this murder was never established," he adds.

• Want to keep up with the latest crime coverage? Click here to get breaking crime news, ongoing trial coverage and details of intriguing unsolved cases in the True Crime Newsletter.

According to Kratz, Avery's DNA, which he says was not taken from his blood, was also found under the hood of Halbach's car, a Toyota RAV4. "How did his DNA get under the hood if Avery never touched her car? Do the cops have a vial of Avery's sweat?" asks Kratz. Defense attorneys alleged that Avery's blood, which was found in Halbach's car, may have been planted, taken from a vial of Avery's blood that was 11 years old.

Kratz also claims that a bullet, recovered from Avery's garage, couldn't possibly have been planted by police, as the defense also alleged. "Ballistics said the bullet found in the garage was fired by Avery's rifle, which was in a police evidence locker since Nov. 6, 2005," says Kratz. "If the cops planted the bullet, how did they get one fired from [Avery's] gun? This rifle, hanging over Avery's bed, is the source of the bullet found in the garage, with Teresa's DNA on it. The bullet had to be fired before Nov. 5."

Kratz, who resigned from his position as Calumet County District Attorney in 2010 following a sexting scandal, admitted that he sent suggestive messages to a crime victim and described his behavior as "deplorable" in an email. He says he had a prescription drug problem at the time. He believes, however, that "it's exceedingly unfair to use that to characterize me as morally unfit" in Making a Murderer and says his later behavior shouldn't have any bearing on the case.

"[Halbach's murder] was planned weeks ahead of time," says Kratz. "[Avery] asked for that same girl to be sent. He was ready for her."
Share this story:

If you actually watched the case you'd know full well Ken Kratz is the most untrustworthy party in the whole debacle. A sex offender who tried to use the high profile nature of this case to prevent his higher-ups from firing him.

Keep ignoring the evidence and defending this vile animal, he and his are the scum of the earth, I know people who have had dealings with these scumbags and I met some of them, ignorant scumbags to a man.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Stew have you watched the series?

From the series there doesn't appear enough evidence to convict of murder. From the added material onlineive read since the series it paints Avery differently but still I don't see enough evidence to convict. I'm not saying he is innocent but those cops made a mess of the case at least from the what the series showed.

As for bobby Dassey he didn't seem capable of any of it and manipulated by the cops.

Any comment on the 18 years he did for a crime he didn't commit? 

[stew]

Stew have you watched the series?

From the series there doesn't appear enough evidence to convict of murder. From the added material onlineive read since the series it paints Avery differently but still I don't see enough evidence to convict. I'm not saying he is innocent but those cops made a mess of the case at least from the what the series showed.

As for bobby Dassey he didn't seem capable of any of it and manipulated by the cops.

Any comment on the 18 years he did for a crime he didn't commit?

The problem is the series is rigged, if they thought he was guilty you would not have a series, too much money on the line to say he was guilty!

Yes, I have a comment on the 18 years he did for rape which he didn't commit, it was a disgrace, he did not deserve to spend a quarter or more of his life in jail for something he did not do, I will take that a step further, I hope if anybody tampered with the evidence at his rape trial gets caught and does some serious time, time should be added for the murder he is in for now because they helped cause that situation.

The Avery trial was Wisconsin's OJ trial, it was intense and hardly anyone thought him innocent, especially in Manitowoc and Two Rivers, the immediate area, the man is guilty all the way in my opinion.

[Syferus]

Stew have you watched the series?

From the series there doesn't appear enough evidence to convict of murder. From the added material onlineive read since the series it paints Avery differently but still I don't see enough evidence to convict. I'm not saying he is innocent but those cops made a mess of the case at least from the what the series showed.

As for bobby Dassey he didn't seem capable of any of it and manipulated by the cops.

Any comment on the 18 years he did for a crime he didn't commit?

The problem is the series is rigged, if they thought he was guilty you would not have a series, too much money on the line to say he was guilty!

Yes, I have a comment on the 18 years he did for rape which he didn't commit, it was a disgrace, he did not deserve to spend a quarter or more of his life in jail for something he did not do, I will take that a step further, I hope if anybody tampered with the evidence at his rape trial gets caught and does some serious time, time should be added for the murder he is in for now because they helped cause that situation.

The Avery trial was Wisconsin's OJ trial, it was intense and hardly anyone thought him innocent, especially in Manitowoc and Two Rivers, the immediate area, the man is guilty all the way in my opinion.

...there was little or no money involved. Two filmmakers spent the better part of a decade covering the case, it started long before Netflix had any interest in original content ffs.

All of what you're saying it even addressed in it and it's quiet clear why locals and the general public thought he was guilty - the cops planted evidence, the same cops he was in the process of suing in a civil case for his first wrongful conviction no less, and Kratz made an absolutely incredible attempt to taint the jury pool with his grandstanding press conferences, none more so than the clearly rubbish confession they squeezed out of a mentally challenged 16 year-old.

You're making a show of yourself to be frank. You so clearly didn't watch the series because anyone who did couldn't hope to gloss over the glaring inaccuracies and tampering by the State and the police, who had a very good reason to pin the murder on Avery and whose involvement in this case at all should be a massive red flag to any person looking at the case halfways objectively. The takeaway is how utterly broken the justice system is in America.

[DownFanatic]

Just completed watching this and I'm keen to read more on the case. It was a brilliant and engaging peice of programming. There is obviously a lot of commentary and analysis on the net now regarding the situation and it will be interesting to read through it.

[Never beat the deeler]

Binge-watched the series at the weekend and have read bits and pieces since. A few thoughts:

I think he was probably guilty, although there are a number of questions that needed to be followed up that the cops never did
I think the cops planted evidence to make sure he was caught, and I think it is possible that he was innocent. If the cops had done their jobs properly all these other threads would have been followed up and closed out.

I don't think Brendan had anything to do with it, though I thought  Bobby and the step father were more than dodgy.


(edit: Brendan/Bobby)

[Smokin Joe]

I think Bobby and Brendan are getting mixed up in this thread.

Brendan is the one locked up, not Bobby.

Seriously Stew, just watch the damn program.

[Never beat the deeler]

I think Bobby and Brendan are getting mixed up in this thread.

Brendan is the one locked up, not Bobby.

Seriously Stew, just watch the damn program.

True enough, edited

[deiseach]

By the relaxed standards we employ on who is a Gael, Dean Strang is one of our own.



(The story about this statue is explained here.)