The Race for the ARAS.....

[Nally Stand]

It's hilarious watching the SFers here trying to justify the blatant abuse of the partition (that they don't recognise) by SF TDs to evade the laws in the Republic.

What's even more hilarious is the anti-SF lads struggling valiantly but vainly, in trying to work out how they can criticise SF over this subject. It is simply a way for the party to ensure it's reps are not money motivated careerists. Maybe if certain other parties had ways to ensure they weren't attracting money seekers and careerists, there would have been fewer Bertie Aherns or Michael Lowrys floating about.

Are you stating categorically that SF are avoiding the laws of the Irish State by donating money to the party in the North? If this is the case then in my view it is no different than someone evading their tax liability...fraud in other words. I would have expected better.

No. They are breaking no law what-so-ever. If they were, an ever-enthusiastic Dublin media would have told you allllll about it many years ago.

Nally, you did not answer the question I asked: are you stating that SF are avoiding the laws of the Irish State? Do you know this to be fact or are you speculating? If yes I stand by my comments.

Your argument makes no sense what-so-ever! Firstly, how can a fraud be committed where no law has been broken? And secondly, about your "Do you know this to be fact or are you speculating? If yes I stand by my comments" remark, does that mean that SF is to be seen as guilty of fraud if I don't know the details of how they organise pay structures?!

Let me explain SF TD's earn money in the South. The law states that they can only donate a certain amount to the Party. They avoid breaking this law by donating the money in the North, hence opening them selves to accusations of hypocracy at the vey least. To my mind this is the same as evading your tax liabilities, you can put any spin you like on it but it is a stroke and SF are quite good at pointing out the strokes that other Political parties pull. So can you state categorically that this is the case, ie that they are avoiding the law by using the border or are you just speculating...simple question really.

Are they breaking the law? Simple question.

[Ulick]

Let me explain SF TD's earn money in the South. The law states that they can only donate a certain amount to the Party. They avoid breaking this law by donating the money in the North, hence opening them selves to accusations of hypocracy at the vey least. To my mind this is the same as evading your tax liabilities, you can put any spin you like on it but it is a stroke and SF are quite good at pointing out the strokes that other Political parties pull. So can you state categorically that this is the case, ie that they are avoiding the law by using the border or are you just speculating...simple question really.

Straw man argument. The regulation specifically says northern political parties are exempt and so SF are abiding to the letter of the law (in both jurisdictions). Anyhow what's all this about avoiding tax when they pay their tax? To be honest Apples you are just being silly on so many levels here - at least Muppet had the foresight to get out gracefully when he was given a chance.

[Applesisapples]

It's hilarious watching the SFers here trying to justify the blatant abuse of the partition (that they don't recognise) by SF TDs to evade the laws in the Republic.

What's even more hilarious is the anti-SF lads struggling valiantly but vainly, in trying to work out how they can criticise SF over this subject. It is simply a way for the party to ensure it's reps are not money motivated careerists. Maybe if certain other parties had ways to ensure they weren't attracting money seekers and careerists, there would have been fewer Bertie Aherns or Michael Lowrys floating about.

Are you stating categorically that SF are avoiding the laws of the Irish State by donating money to the party in the North? If this is the case then in my view it is no different than someone evading their tax liability...fraud in other words. I would have expected better.

No. They are breaking no law what-so-ever. If they were, an ever-enthusiastic Dublin media would have told you allllll about it many years ago.

Nally, you did not answer the question I asked: are you stating that SF are avoiding the laws of the Irish State? Do you know this to be fact or are you speculating? If yes I stand by my comments.

Your argument makes no sense what-so-ever! Firstly, how can a fraud be committed where no law has been broken? And secondly, about your "Do you know this to be fact or are you speculating? If yes I stand by my comments" remark, does that mean that SF is to be seen as guilty of fraud if I don't know the details of how they organise pay structures?!

Let me explain SF TD's earn money in the South. The law states that they can only donate a certain amount to the Party. They avoid breaking this law by donating the money in the North, hence opening them selves to accusations of hypocracy at the vey least. To my mind this is the same as evading your tax liabilities, you can put any spin you like on it but it is a stroke and SF are quite good at pointing out the strokes that other Political parties pull. So can you state categorically that this is the case, ie that they are avoiding the law by using the border or are you just speculating...simple question really.

Are they breaking the law? Simple question.

No I am asking the question, do they donate to the party in the North,? Do you know that for sure or are you guessing?

[Applesisapples]

Let me explain SF TD's earn money in the South. The law states that they can only donate a certain amount to the Party. They avoid breaking this law by donating the money in the North, hence opening them selves to accusations of hypocracy at the vey least. To my mind this is the same as evading your tax liabilities, you can put any spin you like on it but it is a stroke and SF are quite good at pointing out the strokes that other Political parties pull. So can you state categorically that this is the case, ie that they are avoiding the law by using the border or are you just speculating...simple question really.

Straw man argument. The regulation specifically says northern political parties are exempt and so SF are abiding to the letter of the law (in both jurisdictions). Anyhow what's all this about avoiding tax when they pay their tax? To be honest Apples you are just being silly on so many levels here - at least Muppet had the foresight to get out gracefully when he was given a chance.

At no stage have I said they are breaking the law. I am making the point that in my opinion if they are using the border to avoid breaking the law in the South then this is a stroke...not illegal but still a stroke. In my opinion and I state that as a Northern nationalist.

[AQMP]

It's hilarious watching the SFers here trying to justify the blatant abuse of the partition (that they don't recognise) by SF TDs to evade the laws in the Republic.

What's even more hilarious is the anti-SF lads struggling valiantly but vainly, in trying to work out how they can criticise SF over this subject. It is simply a way for the party to ensure it's reps are not money motivated careerists. Maybe if certain other parties had ways to ensure they weren't attracting money seekers and careerists, there would have been fewer Bertie Aherns or Michael Lowrys floating about.

Are you stating categorically that SF are avoiding the laws of the Irish State by donating money to the party in the North? If this is the case then in my view it is no different than someone evading their tax liability...fraud in other words. I would have expected better.

No. They are breaking no law what-so-ever. If they were, an ever-enthusiastic Dublin media would have told you allllll about it many years ago.

Nally, you did not answer the question I asked: are you stating that SF are avoiding the laws of the Irish State? Do you know this to be fact or are you speculating? If yes I stand by my comments.

Your argument makes no sense what-so-ever! Firstly, how can a fraud be committed where no law has been broken? And secondly, about your "Do you know this to be fact or are you speculating? If yes I stand by my comments" remark, does that mean that SF is to be seen as guilty of fraud if I don't know the details of how they organise pay structures?!

Let me explain SF TD's earn money in the South. The law states that they can only donate a certain amount to the Party. They avoid breaking this law by donating the money in the North, hence opening them selves to accusations of hypocracy at the vey least. To my mind this is the same as evading your tax liabilities, you can put any spin you like on it but it is a stroke and SF are quite good at pointing out the strokes that other Political parties pull. So can you state categorically that this is the case, ie that they are avoiding the law by using the border or are you just speculating...simple question really.

I think most people, organisations, and political parties try to avoid breaking the law where possible

[AQMP]

It appears to be a poisoned chalice being ahead in the polls!!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/presidential-election/gallaghers-useless-advice-at-euro4aminute-left-me-feeling-sick-2911605.html

By Gemma O'Doherty

Thursday October 20 2011

A 22-year-old shopowner who was left bitterly disappointed by Sean Gallagher's €500 bill for business advice says he feels "pretty sick" when he hears the presidential candidates' promises to young people.  Kealan O'Connor, from Navan, Co Meath, said that the presidential favourite promised him two hours of mentoring at €250 an hour -- but he said the meeting lasted just 90 minutes and he was still charged €500.  He said his session in February with the businessman and TV star, which promised to bring his "business to the next level", was "useless" and he felt deeply let down.  Mr Gallagher has become the bookies' frontrunner in the election race after pledging to help young people get off the dole queues and set up businesses.  His father, Eugene O'Connor, booked the mentoring session for February so they could get some guidance on how to get Kealan's budding confectionery company off the ground.  They also hoped he might give them some tips on a number of other ideas they had, including a plan to install domestic wine cellars.  The O'Connors were initially surprised when Mr Gallagher requested full payment in advance of the two-hour session and cashed their cheque immediately, almost two weeks before they met.  "At the very least, I expected a receipt in the post a few days after sending the cheque, but it did not come for a month and even then I had to request it," Mr O'Connor senior said.  The session had been booked to take place in Dundalk, but Mr Gallagher requested that it be changed to Dublin.  They arrived at 2.30pm, half an hour before their session was due to begin at 3pm because they were paying him "more than €4 a minute".  "I spotted Sean in the lobby at 2.40pm and introduced myself. I told him we would wait for him in reception. Then, 3pm came and went, and at 20 past, I decided to go and find out what was going on," said Mr O'Connor senior.  "The receptionist pointed me to a nearby room and I saw Mr Gallagher and his PA sitting there and having a good laugh at our expense. I didn't feel like laughing at all.  "We felt it was so unprofessional. It was almost 3.30pm by the time we started. That was €125 up in smoke. There was no apology. But we decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and were sure he would make up for it at the other end.  "As the session progressed, it was as if he was winging it. At one stage, Mr Gallagher said, 'sweets are bad for teeth'. I couldn't believe my ears. I replied, 'and cars kill people'.  "Then he asked us if we had looked into grants from the Enterprise Board. That's not what we came to the meeting to hear. You can get that sort of information on Google.  "I wanted my son to leave with his chest pumping with motivation but the whole thing was totally uninspirational. It was the sort of mundane spiel you'd get in a public house or on the sidelines of a football pitch."  At 4.45pm, Mr Gallagher's PA came in and said he had a train to catch. Ten minutes later, he ended the session.  "We were stunned," Mr O'Connor senior said.  "We ended up getting an hour-and-a-half of his time for €500. We sat in the car afterwards, looked at each other and thought, 'what a waste of time and money!'"  In the promotional material for his mentoring sessions, Mr Gallagher promises to give clients "specific strategies and feedback that will catapult their business forward".  He says he will provide a "roadmap for growing revenues, gaining traction in the marketplace and achieving goals."  The O'Connors waited seven weeks for some follow-up material to arrive but it did not.  "The whole thing was an incredible let-down," said Mr O'Connor senior, adding that the "whole experience was a major disappointment from start to finish".  In response to the O'Connors' complaints, Mr Gallagher accepted last night that a fee of €500 was charged to them for their mentoring session, and that no follow-up feedback or a report on the session was provided to them.  In a statement, he said he was unaware of the O'Connors' dissatisfaction and would like to meet them to discuss their concerns -- but he refused to comment on the allegation that the session only lasted 90 minutes.  He said the O'Connors had come to him with three business ideas, none of which had "a business plan". Mr Gallagher said that he appraised the ideas and "advised the clients that he always cautioned against multiple plans and suggested they should concentrate on one project". He said he assessed each concept and advised on whether or how they could be taken to market.  Yesterday, Kealan was contacted by a member of Mr Gallagher's team, who asked to speak to him but he declined.  "It's a bit late at this stage," said Kealan.  "When we saw Mr Gallagher on 'Dragons' Den', we thought he might be able to help us but I knew within 10 minutes of our mentoring session, that he just wasn't interested.  "When I hear him making so many promises to young people on the campaign trail, I feel pretty sick. He certainly didn't help me. It felt like he just didn't care."

[Nally Stand]

Let me explain SF TD's earn money in the South. The law states that they can only donate a certain amount to the Party. They avoid breaking this law by donating the money in the North, hence opening them selves to accusations of hypocracy at the vey least. To my mind this is the same as evading your tax liabilities, you can put any spin you like on it but it is a stroke and SF are quite good at pointing out the strokes that other Political parties pull. So can you state categorically that this is the case, ie that they are avoiding the law by using the border or are you just speculating...simple question really.

Straw man argument. The regulation specifically says northern political parties are exempt and so SF are abiding to the letter of the law (in both jurisdictions). Anyhow what's all this about avoiding tax when they pay their tax? To be honest Apples you are just being silly on so many levels here - at least Muppet had the foresight to get out gracefully when he was given a chance.

At no stage have I said they are breaking the law. I am making the point that in my opinion if they are using the border to avoid breaking the law in the South then this is a stroke...not illegal but still a stroke. In my opinion and I state that as a Northern nationalist.

Well you did say that:
[/quote]"If this is the case then in my view it is no different than someone evading their tax liability...fraud in other words.[/quote]
Fraud is illegal.

[muppet]

Let me explain SF TD's earn money in the South. The law states that they can only donate a certain amount to the Party. They avoid breaking this law by donating the money in the North, hence opening them selves to accusations of hypocracy at the vey least. To my mind this is the same as evading your tax liabilities, you can put any spin you like on it but it is a stroke and SF are quite good at pointing out the strokes that other Political parties pull. So can you state categorically that this is the case, ie that they are avoiding the law by using the border or are you just speculating...simple question really.

Straw man argument. The regulation specifically says northern political parties are exempt and so SF are abiding to the letter of the law (in both jurisdictions). Anyhow what's all this about avoiding tax when they pay their tax? To be honest Apples you are just being silly on so many levels here - at least Muppet had the foresight to get out gracefully when he was given a chance.

Or to put it another way: after a reasoned exposé of the hypocrisy we were back to the usual silly dogma again. So until next time, I'm out.

[AQMP]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/oct/20/syria-libya-middle-east-unrest-live

Gadaffi reported captured

12.22pm: Reuters is quoting NTC official Abdel Majid as saying Gaddafi has been wounded in both legs.

Insert obvious Martin McGuinness joke here...

[sheamy]

http://judecollinsjournalist.blogspot.com/

Well, you got to admit he's a fresh face. Not a face that's startlingly handsome but then this presidential election was never a beauty contest, was it? No no no. But Sean Gallagher is a face that most of us haven't seen before. Whereas Michael Higgins, Gay Mitchell, Dana – well, the phrase "a comfortable old shoe" comes to mind.


So let's check out the front-runner's qualities.


1.     He's a criminal. That is to say,  he "breached company law", which is another way of saying the crime was a business crime, involving a loan from his own company.  Had the law proceeded with full rigour, he would have been fined around €13,000 or sent to jail for five years. Or both. Ouch. Did I mention he's the front-runner for the Aras?
2.     He was a member of Ógra Fianna Fail in the 1980s
3.     He was political secretary to Fianna Fail minister for health Rory O'Hanlon.
4.     He was Fianna Fail Louth TD Seamus Kirk's director of elections.
5.     He was a member of Fianna Fail's  Ravensdale cumann.
6.     He was elected to the Fianna Fail National Executive.
7.     He resigned from the Fianna Fail National Executive in January of this year, but not from the Fianna Fail party.
8.     In his resignation letter he said he wanted "to express my continued support to you and your colleagues in this challenging period for the party".
9.     He resigned from the Fianna Fail Ravensdale cumann in March 2010.
10.  During the last general election, he appeared on platforms and at launch campaigns with four Fianna Fail candidates.
11.  His presidential campaign team director is Cathal Lee, a former Fianna Fail district councillor.
12.  Two senior advisers from the Fianna Fail-Green government (remember them?) are working on the campaign – Donal Geoghegan, the Greens' chief adviser when in government and Richard Moore, press adviser to Fianna Fail's Dermot Ahern for nearly ten years.
13.  His media adviser is Suzanne Collins, a former press officer with Fianna Fail.
14.   Jack Murray is a former press officer for the PDs and he's giving Gallagher voluntary help.


I haven't mentioned his business background but it related directly to the property boom.


What brought the south of Ireland, not just to its knees, but into a pit from which it won't emerge for maybe twenty years? Fianna Fail and the property developers, with more than a little help from the banks. And now the front-runner is a man (see above) with a Fianna Fail record as long as your leg who had business related to the property world and who, had the full rigour of the law been applied, might be in prison.


It's nice when  a state, after a terrible crisis, can make a fresh start, isn't it?

[AQMP]

http://judecollinsjournalist.blogspot.com/

Well, you got to admit he's a fresh face. Not a face that's startlingly handsome but then this presidential election was never a beauty contest, was it? No no no. But Sean Gallagher is a face that most of us haven't seen before. Whereas Michael Higgins, Gay Mitchell, Dana – well, the phrase "a comfortable old shoe" comes to mind.


So let's check out the front-runner's qualities.


1.     He's a criminal. That is to say,  he "breached company law", which is another way of saying the crime was a business crime, involving a loan from his own company.  Had the law proceeded with full rigour, he would have been fined around €13,000 or sent to jail for five years. Or both. Ouch. Did I mention he's the front-runner for the Aras?
2.     He was a member of Ógra Fianna Fail in the 1980s
3.     He was political secretary to Fianna Fail minister for health Rory O'Hanlon.
4.     He was Fianna Fail Louth TD Seamus Kirk's director of elections.
5.     He was a member of Fianna Fail's  Ravensdale cumann.
6.     He was elected to the Fianna Fail National Executive.
7.     He resigned from the Fianna Fail National Executive in January of this year, but not from the Fianna Fail party.
8.     In his resignation letter he said he wanted "to express my continued support to you and your colleagues in this challenging period for the party".
9.     He resigned from the Fianna Fail Ravensdale cumann in March 2010.
10.  During the last general election, he appeared on platforms and at launch campaigns with four Fianna Fail candidates.
11.  His presidential campaign team director is Cathal Lee, a former Fianna Fail district councillor.
12.  Two senior advisers from the Fianna Fail-Green government (remember them?) are working on the campaign – Donal Geoghegan, the Greens' chief adviser when in government and Richard Moore, press adviser to Fianna Fail's Dermot Ahern for nearly ten years.
13.  His media adviser is Suzanne Collins, a former press officer with Fianna Fail.
14.   Jack Murray is a former press officer for the PDs and he's giving Gallagher voluntary help.


I haven't mentioned his business background but it related directly to the property boom.


What brought the south of Ireland, not just to its knees, but into a pit from which it won't emerge for maybe twenty years? Fianna Fail and the property developers, with more than a little help from the banks. And now the front-runner is a man (see above) with a Fianna Fail record as long as your leg who had business related to the property world and who, had the full rigour of the law been applied, might be in prison.


It's nice when  a state, after a terrible crisis, can make a fresh start, isn't it?

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's an FF candidate for President!

[Jim_Murphy_74]

On the same criteria, I regard every other political party in Ireland as wholly and fundamentally partitionist. Which is a shameful state of affairs.

Why is it a "shameful" state of affairs.

I can understand someone not agreeing with partitionists but why is it shameful?

/Jim.

[Denn Forever]

Wasn't Mary McAleese a FF candidate?

The only non political candidates in the race are Dana and Davis.  Hard to put either No. 1 or 2 on the my ballot paper.

[Nally Stand]

On the same criteria, I regard every other political party in Ireland as wholly and fundamentally partitionist. Which is a shameful state of affairs.

Why is it a "shameful" state of affairs.

I can understand someone not agreeing with partitionists but why is it shameful?

/Jim.

That a party can proclaim to be "The United Ireland Party" (FG) or "The Republican Party" (FF) and not stand in the north? That most of the southern parties say they want a United Ireland but still wish to have no electoral association with six of the counties until a UI happens, despite those same parties regularly espousing the words of the Proclamation (which was written in a unified Ireland and spoke of "cherishing ALL the children of the nation equally)? I'd call it shameful. If you don't that's up to you.

[Declan]

McCabe family: McGuinness not a suitable President
Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 12:49 PM



The widow of Detective Garda Jerry McCabe, who was shot dead in an attempted robbery, has accused Martin McGuinness of refusing to assist gardaí in catching the killers of those who died serving the state.

Anne McCabe hit out at the Sinn Féin presidential candidate, maintaining his past cannot be ignored and brushed aside in the interests of peace.

Det Gda McCabe was shot dead on June 7, 1996 outside Adare post office, Co Limerick. Four Provisional IRA members were convicted of his killing.

Mrs McCabe said her family wants to move on and resume what passes for a normal life without a father, husband and brother.

"We can't move on if Mr McGuinness assumes he can aspire to the symbolic status of first citizen without first discharging the most basic responsibility of any citizen," she said.

"If Martin McGuinness cannot or will not assist the authorities with its investigations into the murders of police officers, soldiers and prison officers how can we expect the rule of law to prevail under his presidency?

"This is a moment of truth for all of us."

In today's statement, the McCabe family accuses Martin McGuinness of meeting one of the men convicted of Detective Garda Jerry McCabe's killing, Kevin Walsh, while he (Walsh) was on the run.

A spokesperson for Martin McGuinness has denied meeting Walsh while he was a wanted man.

The spokesman said Mr McGuiness has unreservedly condemned the killing of Jerry McCabe and added he could never stand over any attacks on the gardaí.

Mrs McCabe called on all other candidates seeking the office of president to demand Mr McGuinness co-operate with gardaí into its ongoing inquiries into the terrorist crimes that claimed the lives of servants of the Republic.



Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/mccabe-family-mcguinness-not-a-suitable-president-525081.html#ixzz1bK8zZ200