The Race for the ARAS.....

[Denn Forever]

Why I could even adopt the demeanour of a "Mane Cavan b**tard"!

Permission to take mild offense?

[sheamy]

Nordies? Personally I've never found that term to be offensive, heard it for years and only within the last year or so have I heard someone complain about it.

It's not actually meant to be an offensive term although people seem to take great offense which makes it kinda fun.

That says a lot about you and your ilk.

I thought Irish people had a sense of humour.
Oh, me and 'my ilk' teasing people...bad old ilk.
Boys a dear.

My point was that by and large these are all harmless gibes given out by people. You response says more about your own xenophobia than anything else.

[Evil Genius]

Was the death eg of Billy Wright a "tragedy"? And if so, does it rank exactly the same as the deaths of those poor terrified victims whom he murdered, for no other reason than that they were Catholics?"[/i]

Considering MMcG's association with at least some of the perpetrators of these vile acts, and your unequivocal support for him, I should be interested in hearing more...

would you consider people to think like that of you just because you consorted with loyalist/unionist killers as members of the northern Ireland soccer fans club etc

"would you consider people to think like that of you just because you consorted with loyalist/unionist killers predatory paedophile Priests as members of the northern Ireland soccer fans club etc Roman Catholic Church etc"

(For the record, I mean absolutely no offence to RC's with that remark, but am merely pointing out the fcukwittedness of that attempted smear by LB)

get real and cut out that old bullsiht where you are over reaching to try and have a go at mcguinness for any makey uppy reason you can.

I have no need to make anything up about the Butcher of the Bogside - he is condemned out of his own mouth when he says things like:
Interviewer: "Inevitably some civilians are going to be hurt in these [car bomb] explosions"
MMcG: "That is quite right, you know, but we have always given ample warnings and anyone was hurt was hurt through their own fault, being too nosy, sticking around the place where the bomb was after they were told to get clear. It's only been their own fault that they got hurt"

Nor did I have to make up anything by Applesisapples when he defended MMcG thus:
"No hierarchy of victims and no one more to blame than the next and every single death is a tragedy.".
Instead, I merely chose to point out that the conclusion to be drawn from that Shinner mantra is that Billy Wright, for instance, is "no more to blame" than his victims...

Well you, Apples and MMcG might believe that, but I'll be fcuked if I'll ever stoop to making excuses for murderous terrorist scumbags, at the expense of their entirely innocent victims.

if you are going to have a go, then you would be better off using the reality of that he isnt that good due to his non involvement in the south - and that he isnt going to get elected anyway!
cop on. Play the ball - that would be a nice change !

I couldn't care less whether MMcG gets elected or not.
If he doesn't, it will be because enough of the Electorate have seen through his "Irish Mandela" bullsh1t, which demonstrates progress (imo)..
And if he does, then "the people will have got the Politician they deserve", whilst we in the UK will have got shot of the b**tard, just like we did his lying (non-)fellow IRA comrade, Adams.   

btw -Yer partition wont be around as long as you hope - but you already know that hence why you scarpered over to England !

If by "scarpered" you mean "moved from one region of my country to another", then that's exactly right.
But if you mean "emigrated", then I would point out that I still haven't had to present a Passport to anyone, any time I've travelled back and forth  between those regions.
Nor do I expect that to change any time during my lifetime.

A lot has been covered since GFA when the clock to reunification started ticking.

You wish!

Anyhow, if the evidence of this Board and all the rancour between 'Nordies' and 'Free Staters' is anything to go by, that clock doesn't tick, it merely gets wound up!

I see McGuinness and his inroads in his campaign being a big play to kick start that process in the south ! you know it too !!

Aye right, just like Grisly's election as TD* for Louth.

* - Ffs! He couldn't even use his new-found position to prevent his own brother from being extradited out of the jurisdiction to face a British Court! 

[Evil Genius]

I for one would gladly pay my way as a fully enfranchised Irish citizen.

Actually, it's not that expensive, really...

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1202289662-36.pdf

P.S. Still waiting for your reply to post #2474

Using that logic we should just ship all the planters home.

"Logic"? Really?

"Planters" (as you so charmingly term us) have full voting rights in their own country, exactly the same as all their fellow citizens.

Whereas those people in NI, sorry, the six counties, who see themselves as solely Irish, do NOT have all the rights of all their fellow Irish people.

In other words, I have the right to elect someone to my sovereign Parliament, whether I live in NI or England.

Do you?

P.S. Still waiting to hear from you whether eg Billy Wright is "no more to blame" for his victimhood than those poor people who were murdered by him (page 161, post #2414). 

[Nally Stand]

We now have this weeks Indo headline. "McGuinness denies attack on Dana's car. Poll finds 98% of people believe he should come clean"

Would you ffs stop whinging?!

[seafoid]

We now have this weeks Indo headline. "McGuinness denies attack on Dana's car. Poll finds 98% of people believe he should come clean"

Would you ffs stop whinging?!

Nallystand is a fascinating ideologue.  It's like he has some sort of sexual preference that he wants to foist on the rest of the country but that nobody is interested in. The pink feathers on Tuesday that the sons of Roisin died for. 

[Nally Stand]

We now have this weeks Indo headline. "McGuinness denies attack on Dana's car. Poll finds 98% of people believe he should come clean"

Would you ffs stop whinging?!

Nallystand is a fascinating ideologue.  It's like he has some sort of sexual preference that he wants to foist on the rest of the country but that nobody is interested in. The pink feathers on Tuesday that the sons of Roisin died for.

I wish you'd stop talking about how you imagine my sexual preferences. It's bad enough all the PM's you keep sending about it, but now here too? It's just not on.

[Evil Genius]

No hierarchy of posters.

Good.

I am not an unequivocal McG or SF supporter...

Good.

... although there are many on this board.

No doubt.

I have consistently argued that the Northern troubles and indeed the Irish question is more complex than many posters on here would have you believe and I include nationalist posters in that.

Indeed.

You have a particular edited view of history which excludes anything before partition

Damn!

And we getting on so well...

Anyhow, for the record, I have never excluded "anything before partition" when discussing history. Rather I have (I think) consistently argued that whilst we should always be mindful of the lessons of history, we should not be bound by it, nor use events which happened long before any of us were born to absolve us of responsibility for our own past or present actions.

... and excuses the British State of all blame whilst heaping said blame on the IRA.

Nope, don't think I've ever done that, either.

Meanwhile, I'm STILL waiting to find out directly from you whether eg Billy Wright is  is "no more to blame" for his victimhood than those poor people who were murdered by him (page 161, post #2414).

[muppet]

Main Street, the maximum a party may accept from a single donor is €6,348.69. Anything over that must be declared and goes to the State. TDs earn close to €100,000. Deduct the maximum they can give to SF and that leaves well over €90,000.

The average wage is about 30K Euro so your maths is a bit out. SF are not the only party to have their MLA's/TD's make a donation to party funds others do like wise but not perhaps as much. you also fail to take into account office costs, staff and expenses. One thing is sure I can't believe SF would be so stupid as to have donations greater than that allowed by law. I also understand that some community activists and workers who aren't elected also get paid, quite easy for a TD to do so directly.

I am aware what the average industrial wage is.

The mantra here has been that 'SF give their salary to the party and only draw the average industrial wage'. That is illegal in the South. If a TD earns €93,000 (according to the Pension Shock programme) and can only donate a maximum of €6,348.69 to the party, how do they square this particular circle?

Saying they spend it on constituency workers makes them the same as other the TDs who spend some of their money on constituency expenses. Saying they give it to party members in the 6 counties who then give it to the party is much the same, but with added farce. Either way it deviates from the mantra.

I'll repeat the mantra again seeing as it sterilizes SF from people with impure thoughts about money: 'SF give their salary to the party and only draw the average industrial wage'.

Normally a few of the guys here are on the ball with responses that sound quite official, but so far only Straw Men on this issue.

[Ulick]

The mantra here has been that 'SF give their salary to the party and only draw the average industrial wage'. That is illegal in the South. If a TD earns €93,000 (according to the Pension Shock programme) and can only donate a maximum of €6,348.69 to the party, how do they square this particular circle?

Saying they spend it on constituency workers makes them the same as other the TDs who spend some of their money on constituency expenses. Saying they give it to party members in the 6 counties who then give it to the party is much the same, but with added farce. Either way it deviates from the mantra.

I'll repeat the mantra again seeing as it sterilizes SF from people with impure thoughts about money: 'SF give their salary to the party and only draw the average industrial wage'.

Normally a few of the guys here are on the ball with responses that sound quite official, but so far only Straw Men on this issue.

No need to be suspicious Muppet, but your not quite correct. TDs can donate their money to whomever or whatever they like except if they choose to donate to a political Party in the south they would be subject to the maximum you state. However, as SF is an all-Ireland party, one advantage of that is they can choose legislation from either jurisdiction which suits them. So, SF TDs (and all paid representatives) donate the money to Party in the north where there are no such restrictions. All cash goes into a central pot in the north and all full-time workers, north and south, receive their allowance from that. The remainder goes to support constituency work north and south, elections and whatever.

[Nally Stand]

Main Street, the maximum a party may accept from a single donor is €6,348.69. Anything over that must be declared and goes to the State. TDs earn close to €100,000. Deduct the maximum they can give to SF and that leaves well over €90,000.

The average wage is about 30K Euro so your maths is a bit out. SF are not the only party to have their MLA's/TD's make a donation to party funds others do like wise but not perhaps as much. you also fail to take into account office costs, staff and expenses. One thing is sure I can't believe SF would be so stupid as to have donations greater than that allowed by law. I also understand that some community activists and workers who aren't elected also get paid, quite easy for a TD to do so directly.

I am aware what the average industrial wage is.

The mantra here has been that 'SF give their salary to the party and only draw the average industrial wage'. That is illegal in the South. If a TD earns €93,000 (according to the Pension Shock programme) and can only donate a maximum of €6,348.69 to the party, how do they square this particular circle?

Saying they spend it on constituency workers makes them the same as other the TDs who spend some of their money on constituency expenses. Saying they give it to party members in the 6 counties who then give it to the party is much the same, but with added farce. Either way it deviates from the mantra.

I'll repeat the mantra again seeing as it sterilizes SF from people with impure thoughts about money: 'SF give their salary to the party and only draw the average industrial wage'.

Normally a few of the guys here are on the ball with responses that sound quite official, but so far only Straw Men on this issue.

Jaysus Muppet do you honestly think you have uncovered a scandal that even the Indo didn't know about?! Do you think if there was ANYTHING illegal about the mechanisms of it, that there wouldn't have been a more than willing media to cover it long, long ago?

SF reps and staff only get an average industrial wage. The rest goes to the party. Plain and simple. I would have thought that any method of ensuring a party only attracts people into politics who are not motivated by money, would be a good thing? Especially against the backdrop of certain politicans' records in the south over recent decades?

[muppet]

Main Street, the maximum a party may accept from a single donor is €6,348.69. Anything over that must be declared and goes to the State. TDs earn close to €100,000. Deduct the maximum they can give to SF and that leaves well over €90,000.

The average wage is about 30K Euro so your maths is a bit out. SF are not the only party to have their MLA's/TD's make a donation to party funds others do like wise but not perhaps as much. you also fail to take into account office costs, staff and expenses. One thing is sure I can't believe SF would be so stupid as to have donations greater than that allowed by law. I also understand that some community activists and workers who aren't elected also get paid, quite easy for a TD to do so directly.

I am aware what the average industrial wage is.

The mantra here has been that 'SF give their salary to the party and only draw the average industrial wage'. That is illegal in the South. If a TD earns €93,000 (according to the Pension Shock programme) and can only donate a maximum of €6,348.69 to the party, how do they square this particular circle?

Saying they spend it on constituency workers makes them the same as other the TDs who spend some of their money on constituency expenses. Saying they give it to party members in the 6 counties who then give it to the party is much the same, but with added farce. Either way it deviates from the mantra.

I'll repeat the mantra again seeing as it sterilizes SF from people with impure thoughts about money: 'SF give their salary to the party and only draw the average industrial wage'.

Normally a few of the guys here are on the ball with responses that sound quite official, but so far only Straw Men on this issue.

Jaysus Muppet do you honestly think you have uncovered a scandal that even the Indo didn't know about?! Do you think if there was ANYTHING illegal about the mechanisms of it, that there wouldn't have been a more than willing media to cover it long, long ago?

SF reps and staff only get an average industrial wage. The rest goes to the party. Plain and simple. I would have thought that any method of ensuring a party only attracts people into politics who are not motivated by money, would be a good thing? Especially against the backdrop of certain politicans' records in the south over recent decades?

Yes yes, play the man.

[muppet]

No need to be suspicious Muppet, but your not quite correct. TDs can donate their money to whomever or whatever they like except if they choose to donate to a political Party in the south they would be subject to the maximum you state. However, as SF is an all-Ireland party, one advantage of that is they can choose legislation from either jurisdiction which suits them. So, SF TDs (and all paid representatives) donate the money to Party in the north where there are no such restrictions. All cash goes into a central pot in the north and all full-time workers, north and south, receive their allowance from that. The remainder goes to support constituency work north and south, elections and whatever.

Better than Nally's answer........but are you serious? Is that the official line?

I am suddenly an All-Ireland tax payer and I will cherry pick which laws I want to apply to me. This could be fun.

[Applesisapples]

I for one would gladly pay my way as a fully enfranchised Irish citizen.

Actually, it's not that expensive, really...

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1202289662-36.pdf

P.S. Still waiting for your reply to post #2474

Using that logic we should just ship all the planters home.

"Logic"? Really?

"Planters" (as you so charmingly term us) have full voting rights in their own country, exactly the same as all their fellow citizens.

Whereas those people in NI, sorry, the six counties, who see themselves as solely Irish, do NOT have all the rights of all their fellow Irish people.

In other words, I have the right to elect someone to my sovereign Parliament, whether I live in NI or England.

Do you?

P.S. Still waiting to hear from you whether eg Billy Wright is "no more to blame" for his victimhood than those poor people who were murdered by him (page 161, post #2414). 

I would have thought you would know my position with regard to Billy Wright it has been made obvious from previous posts. I take great exception to being described as defending Martin McGuinness, I'm not here to defend anyone. As a person who had direct experience of the activities of Billy Wright, I would point out that he did deliberately target catholics whom he knew to be wholly innocent. The IRA killed innocent people too. Both situations are unacceptable and the devastation left behind to victims families can never be fully remedied. However I take great inspiration from people like Michael McGoldrick Senior (God Rest Him), Alan McBride and the late Gordon Wilson who really have displayed the ultimate in forgiveness and reconcilliation. We need to move on for the sake of future genrations. I as a catholic, nationalist and small r republican have every legitimate right to consider myself as Irish as the next man as you do to consider yourself a UK citizen. Your double standards, hypocracy and revisionist view of Irish History puts you right up there with Rattlin' Roaring Willie who shared a platform with Billy Wright whilst shedding crocodile tears and turning on the quaver in the voice as he paraded him self as a victim in the first row in the hierarchy.

[Ulick]

Better than Nally's answer........but are you serious? Is that the official line?

I am suddenly an All-Ireland tax payer and I will cherry pick which laws I want to apply to me. This could be fun.

Eh, what's tax got to do with it? They pay tax on their full salary, donate the rest and receive and allowance in return. How do you figure working that to your advantage?