The Race for the ARAS.....

[lawnseed]

cant understand why martin should have to answer for every ira operation that didnt go according to plan. it was guerilla warfare carried out in the midst of civilians. the ratio of non combatant kills in afganistan is 9 to 1 and that is described as 'tragic but acceptable' by the US army.. the same guys who avail of the facilities provided for them by the ff government and the present government of a "neutral country" ie us.
in accordance with previous wars thats makes ireland a legitimate target were it within the capabilites of the taliban army. just the same as if america was at war with germany and we were helping the yanks we should expect to be attacked

I wouldn't be caught apologizing for those f**kers either.

If you are going to draw parallels between the IRA and the USA army in Afghanistan can we draw the same parallels between MMG and Bush?

mmg was not the leader of a well fiananced organised army. since becoming a politican he has worked non stop to make peace. bush remains adamant that he would 'do it right the next time' which suggests to me that he would have started ww111 by trying to corner the mid east oil fields by military force instead of by stealth which they are engaged in now. "those f**kers" as you refer to them offered to pull out of shannon to save the blushes of the irish government and they were told by the irish gov. to pass no remarks on the irish electorate or protesters that it was they who ran the country. so in effect we aided "those f**kers" as they carried out terrorist activities and internment in guantanamo. so we are no better than pre revolution libya or present day israel since we did not make a stand. despite this martin  wants to represent us we are lucky to have the attention of a great peace maker like him

[Minder]

cant understand why martin should have to answer for every ira operation that didnt go according to plan. it was guerilla warfare carried out in the midst of civilians. the ratio of non combatant kills in afganistan is 9 to 1 and that is described as 'tragic but acceptable' by the US army.. the same guys who avail of the facilities provided for them by the ff government and the present government of a "neutral country" ie us.
in accordance with previous wars thats makes ireland a legitimate target were it within the capabilites of the taliban army. just the same as if america was at war with germany and we were helping the yanks we should expect to be attacked

I wouldn't be caught apologizing for those f**kers either.

If you are going to draw parallels between the IRA and the USA army in Afghanistan can we draw the same parallels between MMG and Bush?

mmg was not the leader of a well fiananced organised army. since becoming a politican he has worked non stop to make peace. bush remains adamant that he would 'do it right the next time' which suggests to me that he would have started ww111 by trying to corner the mid east oil fields by military force instead of by stealth which they are engaged in now. "those f**kers" as you refer to them offered to pull out of shannon to save the blushes of the irish government and they were told by the irish gov. to pass no remarks on the irish electorate or protesters that it was they who ran the country. so in effect we aided "those f**kers" as they carried out terrorist activities and internment in guantanamo. so we are no better than pre revolution libya or present day israel since we did not make a stand. despite this martin  wants to represent us we are lucky to have the attention of a great peace maker like him

Really? Since the early 80's?

[boojangles]

cant understand why martin should have to answer for every ira operation that didnt go according to plan. it was guerilla warfare carried out in the midst of civilians. the ratio of non combatant kills in afganistan is 9 to 1 and that is described as 'tragic but acceptable' by the US army.. the same guys who avail of the facilities provided for them by the ff government and the present government of a "neutral country" ie us.
in accordance with previous wars thats makes ireland a legitimate target were it within the capabilites of the taliban army. just the same as if america was at war with germany and we were helping the yanks we should expect to be attacked. 

But what do you think of his attitude to civilian casualties in that interview?

Opinions change. Attitudes change. That's life. Before this years world cup I thought Rugby was shit. I'm sure Mc Guinness regrets alot of things and his attitudes have changed towards alot of things. He is no different in that regard than any other person.

[Gaffer]

It's proved now from that interview that the Provos didn't give two Fs about innocent people who got caught up in their activities.

Marty boy has confirmed it.

[Maguire01]

cant understand why martin should have to answer for every ira operation that didnt go according to plan. it was guerilla warfare carried out in the midst of civilians. the ratio of non combatant kills in afganistan is 9 to 1 and that is described as 'tragic but acceptable' by the US army.. the same guys who avail of the facilities provided for them by the ff government and the present government of a "neutral country" ie us.
in accordance with previous wars thats makes ireland a legitimate target were it within the capabilites of the taliban army. just the same as if america was at war with germany and we were helping the yanks we should expect to be attacked. 

But what do you think of his attitude to civilian casualties in that interview?

Opinions change. Attitudes change. That's life. Before this years world cup I thought Rugby was shit. I'm sure Mc Guinness regrets alot of things and his attitudes have changed towards alot of things. He is no different in that regard than any other person.

That may be, but it still doesn't look good, and his most vocal supporters on here have avoided any comment on it.

[michaelg]

cant understand why martin should have to answer for every ira operation that didnt go according to plan. it was guerilla warfare carried out in the midst of civilians. the ratio of non combatant kills in afganistan is 9 to 1 and that is described as 'tragic but acceptable' by the US army.. the same guys who avail of the facilities provided for them by the ff government and the present government of a "neutral country" ie us.
in accordance with previous wars thats makes ireland a legitimate target were it within the capabilites of the taliban army. just the same as if america was at war with germany and we were helping the yanks we should expect to be attacked. 

But what do you think of his attitude to civilian casualties in that interview?

Opinions change. Attitudes change. That's life. Before this years world cup I thought Rugby was shit. I'm sure Mc Guinness regrets alot of things and his attitudes have changed towards alot of things. He is no different in that regard than any other person.

Deciding that you don't mind rugby and deciding that murdering people is no longer a legitimate way to achieve your political aims is not really comparable

[mylestheslasher]

cant understand why martin should have to answer for every ira operation that didnt go according to plan. it was guerilla warfare carried out in the midst of civilians. the ratio of non combatant kills in afganistan is 9 to 1 and that is described as 'tragic but acceptable' by the US army.. the same guys who avail of the facilities provided for them by the ff government and the present government of a "neutral country" ie us.
in accordance with previous wars thats makes ireland a legitimate target were it within the capabilites of the taliban army. just the same as if america was at war with germany and we were helping the yanks we should expect to be attacked. 

But what do you think of his attitude to civilian casualties in that interview?

Opinions change. Attitudes change. That's life. Before this years world cup I thought Rugby was shit. I'm sure Mc Guinness regrets alot of things and his attitudes have changed towards alot of things. He is no different in that regard than any other person.

Thats what I was thinking myself. I know McGuinness was an IRA man and I know that organisation carried out some heinous crimes which no man can really support or excuse. But I also recognise the rights of people to defend themselves against tyranny so the existance of the IRA, to me, was not wrong. I believe what happened in the north was a war and I recognise that in a war both sides carried out some pretty awful acts. In the midst of those acts people spoke like McGuinness did in this piece. How the past is all put to bed I don't know but there is a certain amount of hypocrisy in the South when 10 years ago we wanted everyone to forget the past and move on in the North and the first sign of a southward movement of Sinn Fein the media go throwing events from the past into every story and every debate.

As we get nearer to the vote I am still undecided. I think McGuinness is the most experienced politician and most recognised outside of Ireland and that has is advantages. I do also think he can come across a bit cold in some exchanges so I am unconvinced of his likeableness - an important factor I think. Michael D is very likeable but he is a bit on the old side any has a tendancy to lose the average punter on his rambles. Sean Gallagher is interesting. I don't buy into this "he was in FF so he is evil" attitude. Many of my neighbours and friends were involved with that party and they are not devils. My biggest worry about Gallagher is whether he is really a genuine successful business man or whether he is a bluffer. Dana is a nice person and comes across well but her right wing religious beliefs are not shared by me. Mary Davis - no idea what it is she is about. Gay Mitchell - a negative boring unlikable person and totally unsuitable for this role. Has so many ridiculous statements in debates now (eg - supported lisbon 2 because Ireland could not afford to be outside the EU -wtf) that he is not worth considering. Finally Norris is a man who I have admiration for the causes he has supported, many of which have not even been brought up yet. The letter saga was definitely poor judgement on his part. So I think my votes will be the following...

Michael D Higgins or Martin McGuinness (1&2 but not sure of order)
Sean Gallagher
David Norris
Mary Davis
Dana
Gay Mitchell.

[Arthur_Friend]

The whole thing is a load of f**king bollocks.

[Maguire01]

Michael D Higgins or Martin McGuinness (1&2 but not sure of order)
Sean Gallagher
David Norris
Mary Davis
Dana
Gay Mitchell.

Unless you're giving the lower polling candidates your higher preferences, there's not much point in going the whole way down the ballot paper for this one.

[sans pessimism]

reminder to self-NEVER open this boring,meaningless, wafflle inducing thread EVER again

[muppet]

reminder to self-NEVER open this boring,meaningless, wafflle inducing thread EVER again

What?

[Maguire01]

reminder to self-NEVER open this boring,meaningless, wafflle inducing thread EVER again

You'd probably be better putting the reminder somewhere outside the thread.

[mylestheslasher]

reminder to self-NEVER open this boring,meaningless, wafflle inducing thread EVER again

You'd probably be better putting the reminder somewhere outside the thread.

reminds me of homer Simpson, he'll continue opening this thread only to see his reminder. D'oh.

[Orangemac]

Sindo Quantum:

MDH 36 (+9)
Gallagher 29 (+16)
McG 13 (+2)
Norris 10 (-10)
GM 6 (-4)
Davis 4 (-8)
Dana 2 (-5)

Gay Mitchell may have the personality of a yoghurt carton but for a party that had their best ever result in terms of seats only 7/8 months ago to only be polling around 6% is surely a worrying development for FG.

The honeymoon period is over for FG and will only get worse after the budget. The FF obtuaries that have been written are premature, like a zombie they are never quite dead. When Martin is replaced (maybe by Gallagher if he is not elected president) expect to see a lot of the hardcore FF support drifting back in a few years time as if nothing ever happened.

[dodgy umpire]

The Observer has learnt that a Dublin newspaper is to publish extracts of a tape recording McGuinness gave to an American radio reporter in the 1970s in which the then self-confessed second in command of the Derry Provisionals describes civilians caught up in bombs and shootings as "nosey parkers" who should not have got in the way of IRA operations.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/15/sean-gallagher-ireland-president-election?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

That's going to be an difficult one for McGuinness.

McGuinness caught hook line and sinker there, Showing his true colours.

Can't wait to hear his supporters defending this one.

Ask the guy in your picture