Author Topic: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.  (Read 410207 times)

Hereiam

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5115 on: January 18, 2018, 11:10:40 AM »
The whole boundary commission thing again shows that SF made the right move to bring stormount down. The DUP with the Tories in their pockets is not acceptable to most nationalist people as it makes the playing field even more uneven. DUP will always get what they want as long as these two are in bed together. Interesting to see the UUP are out in voice today saying that there is no need for an Irish language act, obviously a meeting has taken place between the UUP & DUP in the last few weeks to plot a strategy on this issue so that they are all singing of the same hymn sheet which shows unionism is good and strong. Our side could learn a thing or 2 from this instead of point scoring of each other at every opportunity.

Rossfan

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5116 on: January 18, 2018, 11:17:34 AM »
Who makes the final decision on the constituencies?
Is it an independent non political commission or is it the relevant British Minister in London?
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

thewobbler

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5117 on: January 18, 2018, 11:18:26 AM »
The whole boundary commission thing again shows that SF made the right move to bring stormount down. The DUP with the Tories in their pockets is not acceptable to most nationalist people as it makes the playing field even more uneven. DUP will always get what they want as long as these two are in bed together. Interesting to see the UUP are out in voice today saying that there is no need for an Irish language act, obviously a meeting has taken place between the UUP & DUP in the last few weeks to plot a strategy on this issue so that they are all singing of the same hymn sheet which shows unionism is good and strong. Our side could learn a thing or 2 from this instead of point scoring of each other at every opportunity.

Lol “their side” have been tearing each other to bits since the mid 1990s.  Broad agreement  on the Irish language isn’t going to stop them blazing at each other the next time there’s a seat to be won.

FWIW what “our side” needs the most (all sides of it) is a lot more tolerance for people who don’t blindly follow their preferred party’s ideals.

This isnt 1884. It’s not even 1994. Modern communications, principally the internet means if you have doubts, you are five seconds away from meeting people who share those doubts. it’s not possible to have a single unified voice on everything. Grow with that, not against it.

AQMP

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5118 on: January 18, 2018, 01:26:00 PM »
Arlene's being all fluffy and warm in Killarney at the weekend, then Sammy Wilson refers to the Leo as "that nutcase Varadkar".  The famous DUP bad cop-bad cop routine!

Rossfan

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5119 on: January 18, 2018, 01:35:55 PM »
The hate filled bigoted cnuts just can't help themselves.
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

maddog

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5120 on: January 18, 2018, 01:44:20 PM »
Arlene's being all fluffy and warm in Killarney at the weekend, then Sammy Wilson refers to the Leo as "that nutcase Varadkar".  The famous DUP bad cop-bad cop routine!

If he has Sammy rattled Leo is doing something right.

Owen Brannigan

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5121 on: January 18, 2018, 03:33:14 PM »
The leaked proposals follow a Secondary Consultation carried out on the 2016 proposals during the period between 5 September 2017 and 2 October 2017

Again, did SF make a written contribution to the Secondary Consultation of the 2016 proposals consultation carried out by the Boundary Commission?

The difference between the 2016 and 2018 leaked proposals is that the 7 current SF constituencies are left safe for them in the 2018 proposals whereas the 2016 proposals ripped up the constituencies in the West held by SF.
The leaked 2018 proposals have the major changes to boundaries being applied to the safe DUP seats. 

The main losers with the 2018 proposals are SDLP and Sylvia Hermon as South Belfast will remain unionist and North Down takes in Strangford but S Hermon may not stand again in 2022.  So, the removed seat is taken from DUP but they know that they regain it at the expense of S Hermon.  The constituencies electorates are being brought into line with the requirements of the Cameron legislation on electoral boundaries and all are being equalised in electorate size.

How is this gerrymandering by an 8 person independent commission?

The Deputy Chairman of the Commission is a judge of the High Court appointed by the Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland. The other two Commissioners are appointed by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland through a public appointments process. The Commission is supported in its work by a small Secretariat.

Chairman:   The Speaker of the House of Commons
Deputy Chairman:   The Hon Madam Justice McBride, DBE, QC
Members:   Dr William Smith
Ms Sarah Havlin
Assessors:   
Mr Alan Bronte, Commissioner of Valuation for Northern Ireland
Ms Siobhan Carey, The Registrar General in Northern Ireland
Mr Jim Lennon, Chief Survey Officer of Land & Property Services
Ms Virginia McVea, Chief Electoral Officer for Northern Ireland
Secretary:   Mr Eamonn McConville

The bigger issue is not the Westminster boundaries, it is basing the Assembly constituencies on the Westminster boundaries which will be redrawn every five years under the Cameron legislation to keep constituencies up to date with population shifts.  With 17 constituencies, there will be a reduction from 90 MLAs to 85 MLAs - a good idea given the over representation we currently have but it will through everything in the air again when trying to work out how many DUP and SF can return to the Assembly and who will come out ahead. 

The answer if this is a problem is to have a proper reduction in MLAs and move to the boundaries of the 11 local councils thereby creating a link between Councils and the Assembly for proper local government. With 8 MLAs per council area, almost 90 MLAs could be maintained.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 04:20:41 PM by Owen Brannigan »

playwiththewind1st

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5122 on: January 18, 2018, 03:45:40 PM »
Erm.....there are now 11 local councils since 2015.

Syferus

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5123 on: January 18, 2018, 04:20:31 PM »
The hate filled bigoted cnuts just can't help themselves.

Leo’s playing a blinder with the north.

Owen Brannigan

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5124 on: January 18, 2018, 04:21:04 PM »
Erm.....there are now 11 local councils since 2015.

Thanks.

red hander

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5125 on: January 18, 2018, 04:24:29 PM »
The leaked proposals follow a Secondary Consultation carried out on the 2016 proposals during the period between 5 September 2017 and 2 October 2017

Again, did SF make a written contribution to the Secondary Consultation of the 2016 proposals consultation carried out by the Boundary Commission?

The difference between the 2016 and 2018 leaked proposals is that the 7 current SF constituencies are left safe for them in the 2018 proposals whereas the 2016 proposals ripped up the constituencies in the West held by SF.
The leaked 2018 proposals have the major changes to boundaries being applied to the safe DUP seats. 

The main losers with the 2018 proposals are SDLP and Sylvia Hermon as South Belfast will remain unionist and North Down takes in Strangford but S Hermon may not stand again in 2022.  So, the removed seat is taken from DUP but they know that they regain it at the expense of S Hermon.  The constituencies electorates are being brought into line with the requirements of the Cameron legislation on electoral boundaries and all are being equalised in electorate size.

How is this gerrymandering by an 8 person independent commission?

The Deputy Chairman of the Commission is a judge of the High Court appointed by the Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland. The other two Commissioners are appointed by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland through a public appointments process. The Commission is supported in its work by a small Secretariat.

Chairman:   The Speaker of the House of Commons
Deputy Chairman:   The Hon Madam Justice McBride, DBE, QC
Members:   Dr William Smith
Ms Sarah Havlin
Assessors:   
Mr Alan Bronte, Commissioner of Valuation for Northern Ireland
Ms Siobhan Carey, The Registrar General in Northern Ireland
Mr Jim Lennon, Chief Survey Officer of Land & Property Services
Ms Virginia McVea, Chief Electoral Officer for Northern Ireland
Secretary:   Mr Eamonn McConville

The bigger issue is not the Westminster boundaries, it is basing the Assembly constituencies on the Westminster boundaries which will be redrawn every five years under the Cameron legislation to keep constituencies up to date with population shifts.  With 17 constituencies, there will be a reduction from 90 MLAs to 85 MLAs - a good idea given the over representation we currently have but it will through everything in the air again when trying to work out how many DUP and SF can return to the Assembly and who will come out ahead. 

The answer if this is a problem is to have a proper reduction in MLAs and move to the boundaries of the 11 local councils thereby creating a link between Councils and the Assembly for proper local government. With 8 MLAs per council area, almost 90 MLAs could be maintained.

You really are completely naive if you think a commission set up under the auspices of the NIO is 'independent'. FFS wise up.

I don't believe the Assembly constituencies will be of any relevance as that farce up in Stormont is a dead parrot

Owen Brannigan

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5126 on: January 18, 2018, 04:31:55 PM »
The leaked proposals follow a Secondary Consultation carried out on the 2016 proposals during the period between 5 September 2017 and 2 October 2017

Again, did SF make a written contribution to the Secondary Consultation of the 2016 proposals consultation carried out by the Boundary Commission?

The difference between the 2016 and 2018 leaked proposals is that the 7 current SF constituencies are left safe for them in the 2018 proposals whereas the 2016 proposals ripped up the constituencies in the West held by SF.
The leaked 2018 proposals have the major changes to boundaries being applied to the safe DUP seats. 

The main losers with the 2018 proposals are SDLP and Sylvia Hermon as South Belfast will remain unionist and North Down takes in Strangford but S Hermon may not stand again in 2022.  So, the removed seat is taken from DUP but they know that they regain it at the expense of S Hermon.  The constituencies electorates are being brought into line with the requirements of the Cameron legislation on electoral boundaries and all are being equalised in electorate size.

How is this gerrymandering by an 8 person independent commission?

The Deputy Chairman of the Commission is a judge of the High Court appointed by the Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland. The other two Commissioners are appointed by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland through a public appointments process. The Commission is supported in its work by a small Secretariat.

Chairman:   The Speaker of the House of Commons
Deputy Chairman:   The Hon Madam Justice McBride, DBE, QC
Members:   Dr William Smith
Ms Sarah Havlin
Assessors:   
Mr Alan Bronte, Commissioner of Valuation for Northern Ireland
Ms Siobhan Carey, The Registrar General in Northern Ireland
Mr Jim Lennon, Chief Survey Officer of Land & Property Services
Ms Virginia McVea, Chief Electoral Officer for Northern Ireland
Secretary:   Mr Eamonn McConville

The bigger issue is not the Westminster boundaries, it is basing the Assembly constituencies on the Westminster boundaries which will be redrawn every five years under the Cameron legislation to keep constituencies up to date with population shifts.  With 17 constituencies, there will be a reduction from 90 MLAs to 85 MLAs - a good idea given the over representation we currently have but it will through everything in the air again when trying to work out how many DUP and SF can return to the Assembly and who will come out ahead. 

The answer if this is a problem is to have a proper reduction in MLAs and move to the boundaries of the 11 local councils thereby creating a link between Councils and the Assembly for proper local government. With 8 MLAs per council area, almost 90 MLAs could be maintained.

I don't believe the Assembly constituencies will be of any relevance as that farce up in Stormont is a dead parrot

And yet a 'dead parrot' that Mary Lou needs SF to be part of to show that SF can be a party of government and not just a protest movement. 

You really are completely naive if you think a commission set up under the auspices of the NIO is 'independent'. FFS wise up.

Go ahead and set out how the leaked proposals are gerrymandering, very easy to fire stones but much more difficult to back up hysteria with evidence.  All out of Trump's playbook, tell the big lie, keep repeating it and play to the core vote.

Applesisapples

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5127 on: January 18, 2018, 04:56:23 PM »
I don't know about gerrymandering, but 59% of the seats of about 47% of the votes roughly seems not quite democratic.

Rossfan

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5128 on: January 18, 2018, 05:03:53 PM »
That 1st past the post nonsense is always undemocratic unless you have only 2 candidates.
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

seafoid

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5129 on: January 18, 2018, 05:05:11 PM »
I don't know about gerrymandering, but 59% of the seats of about 47% of the votes roughly seems not quite democratic.
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