Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

Started by Trevor Hill, January 18, 2010, 12:28:52 AM

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uimhr ocht

in 1974 the dublin/monaghan bombings killed over 30 people injured 300,both british and irish governments have material files not disclosed  till this day.what does our southern comrades make of this since were remembering events 40 yrs ago.

Syferus

Quote from: uimhr ocht on January 16, 2018, 06:52:23 PM
in 1974 the dublin/monaghan bombings killed over 30 people injured 300,both british and irish governments have material files not disclosed  till this day.what does our southern comrades make of this since were remembering events 40 yrs ago.

"What about.."

One distraction tactic, many flavours.

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 06:56:35 PM
Quote from: uimhr ocht on January 16, 2018, 06:52:23 PM
in 1974 the dublin/monaghan bombings killed over 30 people injured 300,both british and irish governments have material files not disclosed  till this day.what does our southern comrades make of this since were remembering events 40 yrs ago.

"What about.."

One distraction tactic, many flavours.

Hypocrisy, one thing you can't run away from.


uimhr ocht

it wasnt a distraction tactic just interested in your thoughts in what happened on your doorstep,many comments are attributed on here to the events of the troubles in the north.

tonto1888

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:16:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

What context was there to Bloody Sunday?

Shooting unarmed civil rights protestors and trying to frame them as IRA gun men. I don't think there is much context to that other than for the Brit's further enforcing the ideals of a sectarian regime on those who opposed it.

Brits frightened and going into a republican stronghold. Like I said. Playing devils advocate.

There is no context which puts any justification onto kingsmill

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 07:35:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:16:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

What context was there to Bloody Sunday?

Shooting unarmed civil rights protestors and trying to frame them as IRA gun men. I don't think there is much context to that other than for the Brit's further enforcing the ideals of a sectarian regime on those who opposed it.

Brits frightened and going into a republican stronghold. Like I said. Playing devils advocate.

There is no context which puts any justification onto kingsmill

I'm not trying to justify Kingsmill, I'm trying to add the context to it.

The context was in the preceding years up to, loyalist paramilitaries had been involved in an extended and incessant murder campaign against non-combatants from the nationalist community. In the aftermath of Kingsmill, these type of attacks fell rapidly. That doesn't change the fact that Kingsmill was sectarian, it was horrendous and wrong but it does explain the rationale behind it.

Over the Bar

Canavan is the man to replace McElduff in West Tyrone..... according to the bookies anyway.  He might not have much political experience but he's well used to ripping Orange men a new one........ isn't that right BCB?   ;D

tonto1888

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 07:42:06 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 07:35:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:16:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

What context was there to Bloody Sunday?

Shooting unarmed civil rights protestors and trying to frame them as IRA gun men. I don't think there is much context to that other than for the Brit's further enforcing the ideals of a sectarian regime on those who opposed it.

Brits frightened and going into a republican stronghold. Like I said. Playing devils advocate.

There is no context which puts any justification onto kingsmill

I'm not trying to justify Kingsmill, I'm trying to add the context to it.

The context was in the preceding years up to, loyalist paramilitaries had been involved in an extended and incessant murder campaign against non-combatants from the nationalist community. In the aftermath of Kingsmill, these type of attacks fell rapidly. That doesn't change the fact that Kingsmill was sectarian, it was horrendous and wrong but it does explain the rationale behind it.

Got ye. Clearly even the Ra felt similar as it was claimed by the South Armagh Action Force I believe

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 07:57:02 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 07:42:06 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 07:35:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:16:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

What context was there to Bloody Sunday?

Shooting unarmed civil rights protestors and trying to frame them as IRA gun men. I don't think there is much context to that other than for the Brit's further enforcing the ideals of a sectarian regime on those who opposed it.

Brits frightened and going into a republican stronghold. Like I said. Playing devils advocate.

There is no context which puts any justification onto kingsmill

I'm not trying to justify Kingsmill, I'm trying to add the context to it.

The context was in the preceding years up to, loyalist paramilitaries had been involved in an extended and incessant murder campaign against non-combatants from the nationalist community. In the aftermath of Kingsmill, these type of attacks fell rapidly. That doesn't change the fact that Kingsmill was sectarian, it was horrendous and wrong but it does explain the rationale behind it.

Got ye. Clearly even the Ra felt similar as it was claimed by the South Armagh Action Force I believe

The Provos were on a ceasefire at this point so it's likely the attack was planned and coordinated by a faction without the approval of the army council.

michaelg

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 08:00:03 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 07:57:02 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 07:42:06 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 07:35:21 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:16:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

What context was there to Bloody Sunday?

Shooting unarmed civil rights protestors and trying to frame them as IRA gun men. I don't think there is much context to that other than for the Brit's further enforcing the ideals of a sectarian regime on those who opposed it.

Brits frightened and going into a republican stronghold. Like I said. Playing devils advocate.

There is no context which puts any justification onto kingsmill

I'm not trying to justify Kingsmill, I'm trying to add the context to it.

The context was in the preceding years up to, loyalist paramilitaries had been involved in an extended and incessant murder campaign against non-combatants from the nationalist community. In the aftermath of Kingsmill, these type of attacks fell rapidly. That doesn't change the fact that Kingsmill was sectarian, it was horrendous and wrong but it does explain the rationale behind it.

Got ye. Clearly even the Ra felt similar as it was claimed by the South Armagh Action Force I believe

The Provos were on a ceasefire at this point so it's likely the attack was planned and coordinated by a faction without the approval of the army council.
So it wasn't the "nice" faction of the  IRA?

armaghniac

Quote from: Over the Bar on January 16, 2018, 07:52:20 PM
Canavan is the man to replace McElduff in West Tyrone..... according to the bookies anyway.  He might not have much political experience but he's well used to ripping Orange men a new one........ isn't that right BCB?   ;D

He might need Philip Jordan to do a dive to get over the line.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

AQMP

Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 06:21:21 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:49:09 PM
Wasn't DeValera anti treaty?
He was from 1921 to 1926 when he started Fianna Fáil and decided to accept the Treaty's and Free State's existence and work within it.

As was Sean Lemass of the "slightly constitutional" Fianna Fail.  A man who didn't like to talk about what he's done during the War of Independence "because people were killed".  Ah well, sure that's OK there, Sean.



...runs for cover!

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: AQMP on January 16, 2018, 09:21:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 06:21:21 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:49:09 PM
Wasn't DeValera anti treaty?
He was from 1921 to 1926 when he started Fianna Fáil and decided to accept the Treaty's and Free State's existence and work within it.

As was Sean Lemass of the "slightly constitutional" Fianna Fail.  A man who didn't like to talk about what he's done during the War of Independence "because people were killed".  Ah well, sure that's OK there, Sean.



...runs for cover!

Free staters don't want to be held to account for the blood shed in their name, they feel only the northern nationalists they abandoned and left to fend for themselves should feel shame in this regard.

Not once has the free state government ever issued any sort of remorse, apology or contrition for their shameful record during the Troubles. Only this week they have further rubbed salt into the wounds of the McAnespie family by refusing to publish the findings of a report they conducted on his murder.

This is the type of attitude that has consistently prevailed down south towards northern nationalists.

tonto1888

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 09:52:53 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 16, 2018, 09:21:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 06:21:21 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:49:09 PM
Wasn't DeValera anti treaty?
He was from 1921 to 1926 when he started Fianna Fáil and decided to accept the Treaty's and Free State's existence and work within it.

As was Sean Lemass of the "slightly constitutional" Fianna Fail.  A man who didn't like to talk about what he's done during the War of Independence "because people were killed".  Ah well, sure that's OK there, Sean.



...runs for cover!

Free staters don't want to be held to account for the blood shed in their name, they feel only the northern nationalists they abandoned and left to fend for themselves should feel shame in this regard.

Not once has the free state government ever issued any sort of remorse, apology or contrition for their shameful record during the Troubles. Only this week they have further rubbed salt into the wounds of the McAnespie family by refusing to publish the findings of a report they conducted on his murder.

This is the type of attitude that has consistently prevailed down south towards northern nationalists.

I don't want to get further drawn into your running battle on here but I did find their reasons for not publishing the findings to be disgusting. People only took part on the basis of confidentiality. I'm sure Aidan went to the game on the basis he'd go home again

Itchy

What possible reason can there be to withhold a report into the cold blooded murder of an unarmed man on the way to GAA ground. Disgraceful.