Author Topic: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.  (Read 392622 times)

Il Bomber Destro

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5055 on: January 16, 2018, 06:08:46 PM »
Bombast - the killings around Dunmanway were it appears carried out by the Anti Treaty IRA who were  the Provos of the time.
Kingsmill sadly didn't prevent Sectarian murders of Catholics by loyalist murder squads.

Donald People and Politicians in the 26 will stop throwing Provo atrocities at SF when  the SF politicians stop holier than thou hectoring and pontificating and provide proper opposition instead.
Picking Marylou as leader instead of Pearse Doherty certainly won't help in this regard.

Dunmanway was carried out by IRA forces who were aligned with today's establishment parties in the Free State.

Kingsmills did see a massive fall off in Loyalist sectarian murders in the aftermath, I don't think there is much disputing that if you look at the activity of loyalist paramilitaries are sectarian attacks before and after, not that it's justification.

Il Bomber Destro

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5056 on: January 16, 2018, 06:16:52 PM »
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

What context was there to Bloody Sunday?

Shooting unarmed civil rights protestors and trying to frame them as IRA gun men. I don't think there is much context to that other than for the Brit's further enforcing the ideals of a sectarian regime on those who opposed it.

uimhr ocht

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5057 on: January 16, 2018, 06:18:36 PM »
For every atrocity like kingsmills there was a Miami showband killings the tit for tat killings were rampant during this period in the conflict.thankfully it was forty years ago but sectarian attitudes still exist today,every year when the Bloody Sunday anniversary is approaching loyalists erect flags from the para regiment on lampposts hardly a coincidence never mentioned either,I seen them in drumahoe and other loyalist areas.

Rossfan

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5058 on: January 16, 2018, 06:21:21 PM »
Wasn't DeValera anti treaty?
He was from 1921 to 1926 when he started Fianna Fáil and decided to accept the Treaty's and Free State's existence and work within it.
Donald - define "working class" 
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

Il Bomber Destro

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5059 on: January 16, 2018, 06:29:43 PM »
For every atrocity like kingsmills there was a Miami showband killings the tit for tat killings were rampant during this period in the conflict.thankfully it was forty years ago but sectarian attitudes still exist today,every year when the Bloody Sunday anniversary is approaching loyalists erect flags from the para regiment on lampposts hardly a coincidence never mentioned either,I seen them in drumahoe and other loyalist areas.

For every atrocity like Kingsmill, there were 7 or 8 like the Miami Showband. It was very easy to be sucked up into that whirlwind at that time as many people on both divides did. The discriminate, sectarian attacks were heavily weighted on one side and all were to be condemned.

It will never change the fact for me though the Free State shamelessly turned their back on Northern nationalists during this time and never once an apology or a sense of contrition from their establishment parties, just mud thrown at what republicans were forced to do.

seafoid

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5060 on: January 16, 2018, 06:35:17 PM »
For every atrocity like kingsmills there was a Miami showband killings the tit for tat killings were rampant during this period in the conflict.thankfully it was forty years ago but sectarian attitudes still exist today,every year when the Bloody Sunday anniversary is approaching loyalists erect flags from the para regiment on lampposts hardly a coincidence never mentioned either,I seen them in drumahoe and other loyalist areas.

For every atrocity like Kingsmill, there were 7 or 8 like the Miami Showband. It was very easy to be sucked up into that whirlwind at that time as many people on both divides did. The discriminate, sectarian attacks were heavily weighted on one side and all were to be condemned.

It will never change the fact for me though the Free State shamelessly turned their back on Northern nationalists during this time and never once an apology or a sense of contrition from their establishment parties, just mud thrown at what republicans were forced to do.
Sunningdale for slow learners wasn't just about Unionists
Jaysus would you shtop

Il Bomber Destro

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5061 on: January 16, 2018, 06:37:58 PM »
For every atrocity like kingsmills there was a Miami showband killings the tit for tat killings were rampant during this period in the conflict.thankfully it was forty years ago but sectarian attitudes still exist today,every year when the Bloody Sunday anniversary is approaching loyalists erect flags from the para regiment on lampposts hardly a coincidence never mentioned either,I seen them in drumahoe and other loyalist areas.

For every atrocity like Kingsmill, there were 7 or 8 like the Miami Showband. It was very easy to be sucked up into that whirlwind at that time as many people on both divides did. The discriminate, sectarian attacks were heavily weighted on one side and all were to be condemned.

It will never change the fact for me though the Free State shamelessly turned their back on Northern nationalists during this time and never once an apology or a sense of contrition from their establishment parties, just mud thrown at what republicans were forced to do.
Sunningdale for slow learners wasn't just about Unionists

It was.

seafoid

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5062 on: January 16, 2018, 06:43:35 PM »
For every atrocity like kingsmills there was a Miami showband killings the tit for tat killings were rampant during this period in the conflict.thankfully it was forty years ago but sectarian attitudes still exist today,every year when the Bloody Sunday anniversary is approaching loyalists erect flags from the para regiment on lampposts hardly a coincidence never mentioned either,I seen them in drumahoe and other loyalist areas.

For every atrocity like Kingsmill, there were 7 or 8 like the Miami Showband. It was very easy to be sucked up into that whirlwind at that time as many people on both divides did. The discriminate, sectarian attacks were heavily weighted on one side and all were to be condemned.

It will never change the fact for me though the Free State shamelessly turned their back on Northern nationalists during this time and never once an apology or a sense of contrition from their establishment parties, just mud thrown at what republicans were forced to do.
Sunningdale for slow learners wasn't just about Unionists

It was.
Would you shtop
Jaysus would you shtop

uimhr ocht

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5063 on: January 16, 2018, 06:52:23 PM »
in 1974 the dublin/monaghan bombings killed over 30 people injured 300,both british and irish governments have material files not disclosed  till this day.what does our southern comrades make of this since were remembering events 40 yrs ago.

Syferus

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5064 on: January 16, 2018, 06:56:35 PM »
in 1974 the dublin/monaghan bombings killed over 30 people injured 300,both british and irish governments have material files not disclosed  till this day.what does our southern comrades make of this since were remembering events 40 yrs ago.

“What about..”

One distraction tactic, many flavours.

Il Bomber Destro

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5065 on: January 16, 2018, 07:00:09 PM »
in 1974 the dublin/monaghan bombings killed over 30 people injured 300,both british and irish governments have material files not disclosed  till this day.what does our southern comrades make of this since were remembering events 40 yrs ago.

“What about..”

One distraction tactic, many flavours.

Hypocrisy, one thing you can't run away from.


uimhr ocht

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5066 on: January 16, 2018, 07:09:48 PM »
it wasnt a distraction tactic just interested in your thoughts in what happened on your doorstep,many comments are attributed on here to the events of the troubles in the north.

tonto1888

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5067 on: January 16, 2018, 07:35:21 PM »
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

What context was there to Bloody Sunday?

Shooting unarmed civil rights protestors and trying to frame them as IRA gun men. I don't think there is much context to that other than for the Brit's further enforcing the ideals of a sectarian regime on those who opposed it.

Brits frightened and going into a republican stronghold. Like I said. Playing devils advocate.

There is no context which puts any justification onto kingsmill

Il Bomber Destro

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5068 on: January 16, 2018, 07:42:06 PM »
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

What context was there to Bloody Sunday?

Shooting unarmed civil rights protestors and trying to frame them as IRA gun men. I don't think there is much context to that other than for the Brit's further enforcing the ideals of a sectarian regime on those who opposed it.

Brits frightened and going into a republican stronghold. Like I said. Playing devils advocate.

There is no context which puts any justification onto kingsmill

I'm not trying to justify Kingsmill, I'm trying to add the context to it.

The context was in the preceding years up to, loyalist paramilitaries had been involved in an extended and incessant murder campaign against non-combatants from the nationalist community. In the aftermath of Kingsmill, these type of attacks fell rapidly. That doesn't change the fact that Kingsmill was sectarian, it was horrendous and wrong but it does explain the rationale behind it.

Over the Bar

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5069 on: January 16, 2018, 07:52:20 PM »
Canavan is the man to replace McElduff in West Tyrone..... according to the bookies anyway.  He might not have much political experience but he's well used to ripping Orange men a new one........ isn't that right BCB?   ;D