Author Topic: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.  (Read 428375 times)

Rossfan

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5040 on: January 16, 2018, 05:02:08 PM »
Because it wasn't done by the Provos?
Or because.....?
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tonto1888

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5041 on: January 16, 2018, 05:02:24 PM »
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

There's no justification for Omagh. I'll make that clear now. That was completely 100% wrong.

Kingsmill? Enniskillen? Warrington?

Il Bomber Destro

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5042 on: January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM »
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

tonto1888

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5043 on: January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM »
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Therealdonald

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5044 on: January 16, 2018, 05:08:22 PM »
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

So the act was justified but the outcome not? Does that pacify you?I'm not going to get into which 1s I seen as justified because I'd be ostracised altogether

tonto1888

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5045 on: January 16, 2018, 05:11:06 PM »
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

So the act was justified but the outcome not? Does that pacify you?I'm not going to get into which 1s I seen as justified because I'd be ostracised altogether

No. The act of lining ten workmen against a van and shooting them is never justified. The act of planting bombs in busy towns/cities is never justified. Them being an inevitability does not make them justified.

Im an Irish Republican but I will never ever say the likes of Omagh/Enniskillen/Warrington were justified
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 05:14:53 PM by tonto1888 »

Syferus

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5046 on: January 16, 2018, 05:12:10 PM »
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

So the act was justified but the outcome not? Does that pacify you?I'm not going to get into which 1s I seen as justified because I'd be ostracised altogether

You already did so by saying any were justified. The horse has already bolted on this one. You’ve nothing left to lose so you may as well tell us what massacres you feel were justified.

Rossfan

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5047 on: January 16, 2018, 05:13:39 PM »
So what exact outcome was expected at Kingsmill when you line up 10 or 12 civilians and rake them with gunfire?
When you set off a bomb in the middle of a public gathering in Enniskillen?
When you leave a bomb in a bin in the middle of a busy town centre on a Saturday and let it off without warning?
Set off incindeiespecially during a busy function in a hotel?
Bate a lad up in a shed with crowbars?
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

Il Bomber Destro

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5048 on: January 16, 2018, 05:14:31 PM »
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

tonto1888

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5049 on: January 16, 2018, 05:15:29 PM »
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

Il Bomber Destro

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5050 on: January 16, 2018, 05:21:59 PM »
So what exact outcome was expected at Kingsmill when you line up 10 or 12 civilians and rake them with gunfire?
When you set off a bomb in the middle of a public gathering in Enniskillen?
When you leave a bomb in a bin in the middle of a busy town centre on a Saturday and let it off without warning?
Set off incindeiespecially during a busy function in a hotel?
Bate a lad up in a shed with crowbars?

The outcome of Kingsmill does not justify it.

The outcome of Kingsmill was that it actually did put a bit of fear into loyalist terror groups who had taken 120 civilian lives in the preceding year in discriminate sectarian attacks. They fell off significantly in the wake of Kingsmill.

It does not justify it but it does add context to the rationale behind it.

What about Dunmanway?

TheOptimist

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5051 on: January 16, 2018, 05:23:47 PM »
Lads, the trouble here is that it is the past and the troubles that is being discussed as usual, and that's what the unionists want.

We talk about Kingsmill, it was 42 years ago, 42 years, let that sink in. If you are aged 30 then the second world war was more recent history to your birth than Kingsmill is to now. Politics has moved along way. People are voting now who were born in 1999/2000. That is after the good Friday agreement was signed.

The past needs to be kept where it is, it is the here and now and the future that is important is. What we really need to happen in NI is for the old generation of politicians to sail of into the sunset, the Campbells, Fosters, Adams',Dodds etc and a new generation not tainted by sectarianism and the troubles to emerge.

Any the people of the republic need to stop using the same tactics as the DUP, it is getting less effective up here and it will in the South too.

Rossfan

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5052 on: January 16, 2018, 05:34:10 PM »
Bombast - the killings around Dunmanway were it appears carried out by the Anti Treaty IRA who were  the Provos of the time.
Kingsmill sadly didn't prevent Sectarian murders of Catholics by loyalist murder squads.

Donald People and Politicians in the 26 will stop throwing Provo atrocities at SF when  the SF politicians stop holier than thou hectoring and pontificating and provide proper opposition instead.
Picking Marylou as leader instead of Pearse Doherty certainly won't help in this regard.
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

tonto1888

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5053 on: January 16, 2018, 05:49:09 PM »
Wasn't DeValera anti treaty?

Therealdonald

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5054 on: January 16, 2018, 06:02:07 PM »
Bombast - the killings around Dunmanway were it appears carried out by the Anti Treaty IRA who were  the Provos of the time.
Kingsmill sadly didn't prevent Sectarian murders of Catholics by loyalist murder squads.

Donald People and Politicians in the 26 will stop throwing Provo atrocities at SF when  the SF politicians stop holier than thou hectoring and pontificating and provide proper opposition instead.
Picking Marylou as leader instead of Pearse Doherty certainly won't help in this regard.

No you won't. It has only gotten worse since SF started having somewhat of a presence in the South and in the Dail. It was fine having the ''murderers'' up North, out of sight and out of mind. We only have to look at FF/FG considering a coalition with each other as opposed to including SF. It's a complete balls. When the majority of working -class people in the south realise that SF representatives are 1 of them, then we'll see a change and Ross, Syferus will be made to look very silly indeed when it happens.