Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

Started by Trevor Hill, January 18, 2010, 12:28:52 AM

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Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

tonto1888

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 05:13:39 PM
So what exact outcome was expected at Kingsmill when you line up 10 or 12 civilians and rake them with gunfire?
When you set off a bomb in the middle of a public gathering in Enniskillen?
When you leave a bomb in a bin in the middle of a busy town centre on a Saturday and let it off without warning?
Set off incindeiespecially during a busy function in a hotel?
Bate a lad up in a shed with crowbars?

The outcome of Kingsmill does not justify it.

The outcome of Kingsmill was that it actually did put a bit of fear into loyalist terror groups who had taken 120 civilian lives in the preceding year in discriminate sectarian attacks. They fell off significantly in the wake of Kingsmill.

It does not justify it but it does add context to the rationale behind it.

What about Dunmanway?

TheOptimist

Lads, the trouble here is that it is the past and the troubles that is being discussed as usual, and that's what the unionists want.

We talk about Kingsmill, it was 42 years ago, 42 years, let that sink in. If you are aged 30 then the second world war was more recent history to your birth than Kingsmill is to now. Politics has moved along way. People are voting now who were born in 1999/2000. That is after the good Friday agreement was signed.

The past needs to be kept where it is, it is the here and now and the future that is important is. What we really need to happen in NI is for the old generation of politicians to sail of into the sunset, the Campbells, Fosters, Adams',Dodds etc and a new generation not tainted by sectarianism and the troubles to emerge.

Any the people of the republic need to stop using the same tactics as the DUP, it is getting less effective up here and it will in the South too.

Rossfan

Bombast - the killings around Dunmanway were it appears carried out by the Anti Treaty IRA who were  the Provos of the time.
Kingsmill sadly didn't prevent Sectarian murders of Catholics by loyalist murder squads.

Donald People and Politicians in the 26 will stop throwing Provo atrocities at SF when  the SF politicians stop holier than thou hectoring and pontificating and provide proper opposition instead.
Picking Marylou as leader instead of Pearse Doherty certainly won't help in this regard.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

tonto1888


Therealdonald

Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 05:34:10 PM
Bombast - the killings around Dunmanway were it appears carried out by the Anti Treaty IRA who were  the Provos of the time.
Kingsmill sadly didn't prevent Sectarian murders of Catholics by loyalist murder squads.

Donald People and Politicians in the 26 will stop throwing Provo atrocities at SF when  the SF politicians stop holier than thou hectoring and pontificating and provide proper opposition instead.
Picking Marylou as leader instead of Pearse Doherty certainly won't help in this regard.

No you won't. It has only gotten worse since SF started having somewhat of a presence in the South and in the Dail. It was fine having the ''murderers'' up North, out of sight and out of mind. We only have to look at FF/FG considering a coalition with each other as opposed to including SF. It's a complete balls. When the majority of working -class people in the south realise that SF representatives are 1 of them, then we'll see a change and Ross, Syferus will be made to look very silly indeed when it happens.

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 05:34:10 PM
Bombast - the killings around Dunmanway were it appears carried out by the Anti Treaty IRA who were  the Provos of the time.
Kingsmill sadly didn't prevent Sectarian murders of Catholics by loyalist murder squads.

Donald People and Politicians in the 26 will stop throwing Provo atrocities at SF when  the SF politicians stop holier than thou hectoring and pontificating and provide proper opposition instead.
Picking Marylou as leader instead of Pearse Doherty certainly won't help in this regard.

Dunmanway was carried out by IRA forces who were aligned with today's establishment parties in the Free State.

Kingsmills did see a massive fall off in Loyalist sectarian murders in the aftermath, I don't think there is much disputing that if you look at the activity of loyalist paramilitaries are sectarian attacks before and after, not that it's justification.

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:05:28 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 16, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 16, 2018, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
I don't like to use the IRA/SF thing but they were the same grouping from 1970 to 2005.
SF are only now beginning to knock the odd Provo atrocity.
I was responding to Bombast's nonsense and all those things I mentioned were visited upon the Nationalists by the Provo IRA.

Why would SF knock any more than the odd one? Whilst mistakes were made, they were all justified. And just to mention Syferus, so nothing can be done to change ''SF'S toxic reputation in Irish society'', but FF or FG along with the banks can leave the country on their knees, thousands of young people leaving the shores, but their role in that wasn't toxic. God one there. We in the North don't ask for you to completely embrace SF, but at least be consistent. We have an affinity with SF in the north that those in the South will never understand.

I'll let this sit here. No commentary needed.

Im really hoping he is referring to something else, and not the likes of Kingsmill/Omagh etc

In war situations terrible things are an inevitably. Nelson Mandela had blood on his hand if you are to look at them under the lens SF are.

Agreed. Doesn't mean certain things which happened were justified

Doesn't justify but it does add context.

to play devils advocate you could say the same about Bloody Sunday

What context was there to Bloody Sunday?

Shooting unarmed civil rights protestors and trying to frame them as IRA gun men. I don't think there is much context to that other than for the Brit's further enforcing the ideals of a sectarian regime on those who opposed it.

uimhr ocht

For every atrocity like kingsmills there was a Miami showband killings the tit for tat killings were rampant during this period in the conflict.thankfully it was forty years ago but sectarian attitudes still exist today,every year when the Bloody Sunday anniversary is approaching loyalists erect flags from the para regiment on lampposts hardly a coincidence never mentioned either,I seen them in drumahoe and other loyalist areas.

Rossfan

Quote from: tonto1888 on January 16, 2018, 05:49:09 PM
Wasn't DeValera anti treaty?
He was from 1921 to 1926 when he started Fianna Fáil and decided to accept the Treaty's and Free State's existence and work within it.
Donald - define "working class" 
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: uimhr ocht on January 16, 2018, 06:18:36 PM
For every atrocity like kingsmills there was a Miami showband killings the tit for tat killings were rampant during this period in the conflict.thankfully it was forty years ago but sectarian attitudes still exist today,every year when the Bloody Sunday anniversary is approaching loyalists erect flags from the para regiment on lampposts hardly a coincidence never mentioned either,I seen them in drumahoe and other loyalist areas.

For every atrocity like Kingsmill, there were 7 or 8 like the Miami Showband. It was very easy to be sucked up into that whirlwind at that time as many people on both divides did. The discriminate, sectarian attacks were heavily weighted on one side and all were to be condemned.

It will never change the fact for me though the Free State shamelessly turned their back on Northern nationalists during this time and never once an apology or a sense of contrition from their establishment parties, just mud thrown at what republicans were forced to do.

seafoid

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:29:43 PM
Quote from: uimhr ocht on January 16, 2018, 06:18:36 PM
For every atrocity like kingsmills there was a Miami showband killings the tit for tat killings were rampant during this period in the conflict.thankfully it was forty years ago but sectarian attitudes still exist today,every year when the Bloody Sunday anniversary is approaching loyalists erect flags from the para regiment on lampposts hardly a coincidence never mentioned either,I seen them in drumahoe and other loyalist areas.

For every atrocity like Kingsmill, there were 7 or 8 like the Miami Showband. It was very easy to be sucked up into that whirlwind at that time as many people on both divides did. The discriminate, sectarian attacks were heavily weighted on one side and all were to be condemned.

It will never change the fact for me though the Free State shamelessly turned their back on Northern nationalists during this time and never once an apology or a sense of contrition from their establishment parties, just mud thrown at what republicans were forced to do.
Sunningdale for slow learners wasn't just about Unionists
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:29:43 PM
Quote from: uimhr ocht on January 16, 2018, 06:18:36 PM
For every atrocity like kingsmills there was a Miami showband killings the tit for tat killings were rampant during this period in the conflict.thankfully it was forty years ago but sectarian attitudes still exist today,every year when the Bloody Sunday anniversary is approaching loyalists erect flags from the para regiment on lampposts hardly a coincidence never mentioned either,I seen them in drumahoe and other loyalist areas.

For every atrocity like Kingsmill, there were 7 or 8 like the Miami Showband. It was very easy to be sucked up into that whirlwind at that time as many people on both divides did. The discriminate, sectarian attacks were heavily weighted on one side and all were to be condemned.

It will never change the fact for me though the Free State shamelessly turned their back on Northern nationalists during this time and never once an apology or a sense of contrition from their establishment parties, just mud thrown at what republicans were forced to do.
Sunningdale for slow learners wasn't just about Unionists

It was.

seafoid

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:37:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2018, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 16, 2018, 06:29:43 PM
Quote from: uimhr ocht on January 16, 2018, 06:18:36 PM
For every atrocity like kingsmills there was a Miami showband killings the tit for tat killings were rampant during this period in the conflict.thankfully it was forty years ago but sectarian attitudes still exist today,every year when the Bloody Sunday anniversary is approaching loyalists erect flags from the para regiment on lampposts hardly a coincidence never mentioned either,I seen them in drumahoe and other loyalist areas.

For every atrocity like Kingsmill, there were 7 or 8 like the Miami Showband. It was very easy to be sucked up into that whirlwind at that time as many people on both divides did. The discriminate, sectarian attacks were heavily weighted on one side and all were to be condemned.

It will never change the fact for me though the Free State shamelessly turned their back on Northern nationalists during this time and never once an apology or a sense of contrition from their establishment parties, just mud thrown at what republicans were forced to do.
Sunningdale for slow learners wasn't just about Unionists

It was.
Would you shtop
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU