Quinn Insurance in Administration

[orangeman]

It'll take 150 M to shore up the solvency ratios. And I think I heard the other 600 was for bonds that SQ has in America or something. However SQ maintains he doesn't want or need the 600 as he has never defaulted in paying these and wants to continue to do so.

Again all this is going on what I've picked up but might not be gospel.

That was / is my understanding of the situation. If it is there's a chance that Quinn can retrieve the situation. If it is not, then he's in trouble.

The above is Sean Quinn's version. The Regulator has a different story. One of them is being economical with the truth.

To avoid the speculation and Quinn trying to portray him wrongly, why does the Regulator not come out and call him a liar ( if he is a liar ) ?.

[scud]

It'll take 150 M to shore up the solvency ratios. And I think I heard the other 600 was for bonds that SQ has in America or something. However SQ maintains he doesn't want or need the 600 as he has never defaulted in paying these and wants to continue to do so.

Again all this is going on what I've picked up but might not be gospel.

That was / is my understanding of the situation. If it is there's a chance that Quinn can retrieve the situation. If it is not, then he's in trouble.

The above is Sean Quinn's version. The Regulator has a different story. One of them is being economical with the truth.

To avoid the speculation and Quinn trying to portray him wrongly, why does the Regulator not come out and call him a liar ( if he is a liar ) ?.

That would be good craic alright! 'Mr Quinn, you're a big liar', 'Am not!', Are so!' 

I think to a certain extent the regulator is indifferent to the figures. The main point is Quinn has operated below the required solvency levels for years and continues to do so, despite being warned a couple of years back. I keep hearing this phrase 'total breakdown of trust' and I think that may be the reall issue here. The regulator sees Quinn as a risk taker, a cowboy maybe, and not someone he wants involved in the future of the Quinn Insurance company.

Another thing I noticed which I haven't been able to figure out. SQ phones prime time and gives his little speech about Quinn Insurance having 'loadsamoney'- which many reported as a rejection of the Anglo bid, yet the directors of QIL spoke very favourably about the Anglo proposal. Now surely if they had plenty of money Quinn wouldn't want to lose control for the sake of an extra €150m liquidity?

[johnneycool]

It'll take 150 M to shore up the solvency ratios. And I think I heard the other 600 was for bonds that SQ has in America or something. However SQ maintains he doesn't want or need the 600 as he has never defaulted in paying these and wants to continue to do so.

Again all this is going on what I've picked up but might not be gospel.

That was / is my understanding of the situation. If it is there's a chance that Quinn can retrieve the situation. If it is not, then he's in trouble.

The above is Sean Quinn's version. The Regulator has a different story. One of them is being economical with the truth.

To avoid the speculation and Quinn trying to portray him wrongly, why does the Regulator not come out and call him a liar ( if he is a liar ) ?.

That would be good craic alright! 'Mr Quinn, you're a big liar', 'Am not!', Are so!' 

I think to a certain extent the regulator is indifferent to the figures. The main point is Quinn has operated below the required solvency levels for years and continues to do so, despite being warned a couple of years back. I keep hearing this phrase 'total breakdown of trust' and I think that may be the reall issue here. The regulator sees Quinn as a risk taker, a cowboy maybe, and not someone he wants involved in the future of the Quinn Insurance company.

Another thing I noticed which I haven't been able to figure out. SQ phones prime time and gives his little speech about Quinn Insurance having 'loadsamoney'- which many reported as a rejection of the Anglo bid, yet the directors of QIL spoke very favourably about the Anglo proposal. Now surely if they had plenty of money Quinn wouldn't want to lose control for the sake of an extra €150m liquidity?

If QIL are outside the rules in terms of required solvency levels then how is putting the company in administration going to help the company, its employees and the insuree's on its books?

Surely it'd be better to sit down with QIL and agree a 2 to 4 year plan to get them back on track as there aren't too many company's allegedly turning over €30/40 a month in profits and employing 700 odd people in Cavan and Fermanagh. If Sean Quinn has ignored warnings in the past and is breaking the law then put him through the courts with the threat of a custodial sentence otherwise it looks like the new financial regulator is looking to make a name for himself which in itself is alright but don't cut your nose off to spite your face and put 700 odd people out of work to make a point.

[orangeman]

Sadly it lools like the whole Quinn group would suffer if the Insurance company either fails or if it is sold off.

There'd be a whole lot more than 700 families effected.

[scud]

If QIL are outside the rules in terms of required solvency levels then how is putting the company in administration going to help the company, its employees and the insuree's on its books?

Surely it'd be better to sit down with QIL and agree a 2 to 4 year plan to get them back on track as there aren't too many company's allegedly turning over €30/40 a month in profits and employing 700 odd people in Cavan and Fermanagh. If Sean Quinn has ignored warnings in the past and is breaking the law then put him through the courts with the threat of a custodial sentence otherwise it looks like the new financial regulator is looking to make a name for himself which in itself is alright but don't cut your nose off to spite your face and put 700 odd people out of work to make a point.

Well for one it will stop any further guarantees being made over QIL's assets.

The regulator has no duty towards the employees, so if he thinks the best option for policyholders is a sale to a big player like AXA/Aviva then thats what happens. And for my 2p I don't think the actions were necessarily to make a point. The regulator seemed to be in a situation where the 2nd largest insurer in the state had made massive guarantees to bail out its parent group. What if there were more guarantees? What if there were further massive losses in the parent group?

How could he continue to allow a situation to continue where an insurance company is run as a cash cow to support another entity?

[orangeman]

If QIL are outside the rules in terms of required solvency levels then how is putting the company in administration going to help the company, its employees and the insuree's on its books?

Surely it'd be better to sit down with QIL and agree a 2 to 4 year plan to get them back on track as there aren't too many company's allegedly turning over €30/40 a month in profits and employing 700 odd people in Cavan and Fermanagh. If Sean Quinn has ignored warnings in the past and is breaking the law then put him through the courts with the threat of a custodial sentence otherwise it looks like the new financial regulator is looking to make a name for himself which in itself is alright but don't cut your nose off to spite your face and put 700 odd people out of work to make a point.

Well for one it will stop any further guarantees being made over QIL's assets.

The regulator has no duty towards the employees, so if he thinks the best option for policyholders is a sale to a big player like AXA/Aviva then thats what happens. And for my 2p I don't think the actions were necessarily to make a point. The regulator seemed to be in a situation where the 2nd largest insurer in the state had made massive guarantees to bail out its parent group. What if there were more guarantees? What if there were further massive losses in the parent group?

How could he continue to allow a situation to continue where an insurance company is run as a cash cow to support another entity?

Was / is that the case ?.

[no mo do yakamo]

Thats what will happen if Anglo get their hands on it!

[Bogball XV]

If QIL are outside the rules in terms of required solvency levels then how is putting the company in administration going to help the company, its employees and the insuree's on its books?

Surely it'd be better to sit down with QIL and agree a 2 to 4 year plan to get them back on track as there aren't too many company's allegedly turning over €30/40 a month in profits and employing 700 odd people in Cavan and Fermanagh. If Sean Quinn has ignored warnings in the past and is breaking the law then put him through the courts with the threat of a custodial sentence otherwise it looks like the new financial regulator is looking to make a name for himself which in itself is alright but don't cut your nose off to spite your face and put 700 odd people out of work to make a point.

Well for one it will stop any further guarantees being made over QIL's assets.

The regulator has no duty towards the employees, so if he thinks the best option for policyholders is a sale to a big player like AXA/Aviva then thats what happens. And for my 2p I don't think the actions were necessarily to make a point. The regulator seemed to be in a situation where the 2nd largest insurer in the state had made massive guarantees to bail out its parent group. What if there were more guarantees? What if there were further massive losses in the parent group?

How could he continue to allow a situation to continue where an insurance company is run as a cash cow to support another entity?

Was / is that the case ?.

sean quinn said as much himself, he said that given the money he was making at Quinn Insurance he'd be able to pay off his anglo debts in no time, or words to that effect.

[orangeman]

Quinn interim director appointed 

Quinn Insurance employs 600 people in County Fermanagh
A company has been assigned to the Quinn Group to provide financial restructuring services.

It was announced on Tuesday that Talbot Hughes McKillop LLP (THM) will assist the company to "work through the Group's current issues".

THM partner, Mr Murdoch McKillop, has also been appointed interim executive director of Quinn Group Ltd.  

[gortnaleck]

I never hear anything about his brother Peter anymore. Has he left the company ?

[johnneycool]

If QIL are outside the rules in terms of required solvency levels then how is putting the company in administration going to help the company, its employees and the insuree's on its books?

Surely it'd be better to sit down with QIL and agree a 2 to 4 year plan to get them back on track as there aren't too many company's allegedly turning over €30/40 a month in profits and employing 700 odd people in Cavan and Fermanagh. If Sean Quinn has ignored warnings in the past and is breaking the law then put him through the courts with the threat of a custodial sentence otherwise it looks like the new financial regulator is looking to make a name for himself which in itself is alright but don't cut your nose off to spite your face and put 700 odd people out of work to make a point.

Well for one it will stop any further guarantees being made over QIL's assets.

The regulator has no duty towards the employees, so if he thinks the best option for policyholders is a sale to a big player like AXA/Aviva then thats what happens. And for my 2p I don't think the actions were necessarily to make a point. The regulator seemed to be in a situation where the 2nd largest insurer in the state had made massive guarantees to bail out its parent group. What if there were more guarantees? What if there were further massive losses in the parent group?

How could he continue to allow a situation to continue where an insurance company is run as a cash cow to support another entity?

Was / is that the case ?.

sean quinn said as much himself, he said that given the money he was making at Quinn Insurance he'd be able to pay off his anglo debts in no time, or words to that effect.

Forgive my ignorance on the legalities of this but what's wrong with Sean Quinn using a wing of his company to shore up his personal liabilities? I'm sure it was his quarry/building materials/hostilery business which provided the colateral to buy the insurance wing of BUPA or whoever it was pulled out in the first place.

If he's broke the law, prosecute him through the courts but let a viable company still run as such. Going into administration is a stigma which will put people off taking out or renewing policies and will drive the business into the ground.

[gerrykeegan]

He is using others peoples money to shore up his liabilities. When the Independent Insurance company went bang in 2001, thousands of people lost their money. People are still paying off personal liability claims nearly 10 years later. He could not be allowed to continue to break regulatory laws.

[trileacman]

If QIL are outside the rules in terms of required solvency levels then how is putting the company in administration going to help the company, its employees and the insuree's on its books?

Surely it'd be better to sit down with QIL and agree a 2 to 4 year plan to get them back on track as there aren't too many company's allegedly turning over €30/40 a month in profits and employing 700 odd people in Cavan and Fermanagh. If Sean Quinn has ignored warnings in the past and is breaking the law then put him through the courts with the threat of a custodial sentence otherwise it looks like the new financial regulator is looking to make a name for himself which in itself is alright but don't cut your nose off to spite your face and put 700 odd people out of work to make a point.

Well for one it will stop any further guarantees being made over QIL's assets.

The regulator has no duty towards the employees, so if he thinks the best option for policyholders is a sale to a big player like AXA/Aviva then thats what happens. And for my 2p I don't think the actions were necessarily to make a point. The regulator seemed to be in a situation where the 2nd largest insurer in the state had made massive guarantees to bail out its parent group. What if there were more guarantees? What if there were further massive losses in the parent group?

How could he continue to allow a situation to continue where an insurance company is run as a cash cow to support another entity?

If the Regulator has no duty of care over Irish people then what exactly is his role? To apply legislation at the expense of the Irish people?

[scud]

If the Regulator has no duty of care over Irish people then what exactly is his role? To apply legislation at the expense of the Irish people?

His duty is solely towards policy holders of QIL.

What if QIL's solvency levels were far worse than disclosed or the banks called in their loans and at the same time QIL encountered a glut of big claims? Can you imagine the mess if there was a major storm etc and QIL couldn't cover the claims?

I hope a way out can be found for the sake of the workers, because if the Quinn Group folds its adios to the Fermanagh/Cavan/Lietrim border area.

[armaghniac]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0415/quinn.html


Quinn to withdraw opposition to administrators
Thursday, 15 April 2010 13:57

The Quinn Group is to tell the High Court that it will not object to the permanent appointment of administrators to Quinn Insurance.

RTÉ News has learned the development could come before the courts today.

A spokesman for the Quinn group has declined to comment.

This move marks a significant shift in the position of the Quinn Group in recent days.

It is understood the company has now come to the conclusion that Quinn Insurance would have a better chance if it was dealing with a full-time administrator.

The company has been increasingly concerned about the damage it is suffering as a result of the ban on it doing business in Northern Ireland and the UK.

If the administrators are appointed, it would clear the way for them to sell the insurance company if they see fit.

Yesterday, Financial Regulator Matthew Elderfield told an Oireachtas Committee that the motivation of his office was to protect policy holders.