Quinn Insurance in Administration

[muppet]

The reality is lads this is about the banks again. The banks are again putting the squeeze on business to make sure their own balance sheets look better. For months now I have heard of banks closing profitable business by the wothdrawal of facilities previously granted to them. Was chatting to an accountant the other day and he is loosing quite a few customers who have been trading profitably for years and suddenly banks have withdrawn overdraft facilities overnight. One business had it's overdraft facility withdrawn on a Friday and was forced to close on a Monday, despite an excellent trading history. Banks are purely acting in self interest.

What we now have is the banks putting the squeeze on big business as well as the SMEs. What is seems has happened here is that guarantees from Quinn Direct to other businesses in the Quinn Group, if called up could put pressure on the liquidity of QD. QD is not even technically insolvent, there exists the possibiliy in the future of being insolvent if all the guarantees to other businesses in the group need to be paid. But sure every business has the possibility of being insolvent at some stage in the future. Unless the Regulator knows something about the other Group businesses and their standing, it seems a curious move on the Regulators hehalf.

My feeling is that it is the banks that are pushing for this. The banks need to get cash and capital back into their balance sheets. The need to reduce their liabilities and what better way to do that than to withdraw lending facilities to SME and get cash in from big businesses that can afford to pay. They can't get money from the failed speculators (property developers - big and small) so they go after real businesses.

If this is the plan the country will quickly grind to a halt.

I'm not convinced this is what is going on but it does demonstrate the idiocy of allowing those who created the mess devise the solution.

[keeping an eye on things]

It's just amazing what greed does to people. Started the business from scratch but not happy with being a multi millionaire. 

That's a pretty stupid comment to be honest, is every person who wants to expand their business and better themselves greedy??    If being greedy provides thousands of jobs to the local area he is from and involves paying a considerable amount of tax to the government maybe it's not a bad afflication

[boojangles]

It's just amazing what greed does to people. Started the business from scratch but not happy with being a multi millionaire. 

That's a pretty stupid comment to be honest, is every person who wants to expand their business and better themselves greedy??    If being greedy provides thousands of jobs to the local area he is from and involves paying a considerable amount of tax to the government maybe it's not a bad afflication

Exactly. The Quinn Group has paid over 1 Billion in taxes to the Exchequer. Greedy my arse.

[Billys Boots]

So it's pats on the back for all who pay their taxes??

[boojangles]

So it's pats on the back for all who pay their taxes??

Yes thats it. Sean Quinn is looking for a pat on the back.

Quinn is probably the biggest employer in my area and that probably includes yours too Billy. Putting a fully functioning and profitable company into administration that is absolutely vital for employment to thousands of people in the region seems like madness to me. QDI had never defaulted on any of its loans or guarantees so why was this action taken?
To me this isn't about Sean Quinn,its about imminent and needless job losses in an area that is grossly neglected for far too long.
The powers that be have taken our trains,they build a Motorway all the way to the Cavan border outside Carnaross which is an insult to all Cavan people and now they are trying to damage the biggest employer in the region.

[boojangles]

GET UP,STAND UP.

To whom it may concern,
 
The decision last Tuesday 30th March to place Quinn Insurances Ltd (QIL) in provisional administration has far reaching implications for business and family life throughout this region, and indeed the whole country.  QIL is a very profitable indigenous business employing 2,700 people in its various offices in the island of Ireland and the UK.  The Quinn Group employs in excess of 5,500 people nationally, and has paid over a billion euro in taxes to the Irish exchequer since its foundation.
 
This administration process seriously puts at risk all of these jobs and the knock on effect on the local economy would be catastrophic.  We in Cavan Chamber of Commerce are organising a rally to take place on Wednesday 7th April 1, 2010 at 5.30pm in the Market Square, Main Street, Cavan in order to demonstrate our solidarity and support for Quinn Insurance, its employees and management and the wider Quinn Group.   
 
We strongly appeal to you, your colleagues, your families, friends and the public at large to acknowledge the value of the Quinn Group Businesses to the development of this region by attending this rally.  We are inviting all our public representatives to address this rally and listen to your voice.
 
Please pass this email onto everybody in your address book.
 
Yours sincerely,
 
Eamon McDwyer
President Cavan Chamber of Commerce

[muppet]

So it's pats on the back for all who pay their taxes??

Yes thats it. Sean Quinn is looking for a pat on the back.

Quinn is probably the biggest employer in my area and that probably includes yours too Billy. Putting a fully functioning and profitable company into administration that is absolutely vital for employment to thousands of people in the region seems like madness to me. QDI had never defaulted on any of its loans or guarantees so why was this action taken?
To me this isn't about Sean Quinn,its about imminent and needless job losses in an area that is grossly neglected for far too long.
The powers that be have taken our trains,they build a Motorway all the way to the Cavan border outside Carnaross which is an insult to all Cavan people and now they are trying to damage the biggest employer in the region.

Watching Quinn last night it seemed he was referring to some agreement with the previous Regulatory administration. Those days are over and that administration is in disgrace. Quinn needs to be compliant with the current reality not the old one.

If his business is as profitable as everyone claims it will come out of this and the jobs will be fine.

[pintsofguinness]

It's just amazing what greed does to people. Started the business from scratch but not happy with being a multi millionaire. 

That's a pretty stupid comment to be honest, is every person who wants to expand their business and better themselves greedy??    If being greedy provides thousands of jobs to the local area he is from and involves paying a considerable amount of tax to the government maybe it's not a bad afflication

No but when you get involved in dodgy dealings to make yet more money than you could ever need or spend then that's going down the greed path...

[boojangles]

So it's pats on the back for all who pay their taxes??

Yes thats it. Sean Quinn is looking for a pat on the back.

Quinn is probably the biggest employer in my area and that probably includes yours too Billy. Putting a fully functioning and profitable company into administration that is absolutely vital for employment to thousands of people in the region seems like madness to me. QDI had never defaulted on any of its loans or guarantees so why was this action taken?
To me this isn't about Sean Quinn,its about imminent and needless job losses in an area that is grossly neglected for far too long.
The powers that be have taken our trains,they build a Motorway all the way to the Cavan border outside Carnaross which is an insult to all Cavan people and now they are trying to damage the biggest employer in the region.

Watching Quinn last night it seemed he was referring to some agreement with the previous Regulatory administration. Those days are over and that administration is in disgrace. Quinn needs to be compliant with the current reality not the old one.

If his business is as profitable as everyone claims it will come out of this and the jobs will be fine.

They won't be fine. QDI has been ordered to stop taking any new business or renewals in the North and the UK becasue they are under a different regulator. That is probably half of Quinn Directs potential business gone.
There is a big difference in being compliant( which QDI was) and putting the company into administration. The new Regulator wants to get tough, fair enough, but this decision is just plain wrong.

[whiskeysteve]

These stringent new regulations are obviously a case of closing the stable door after the horse is bolted. But is it not also a case of closing the door when trying to get the horse back into the stable?

What I mean is these regulations should be put in place during the next 'upswing' (whenever that will be) and at this point in time we could actually do with SOME of the more lenient regulatory practices that got us here in the first place?

Sounds perverse in a way, i know, but seems to me that strict regulation should be enforced on a dynamic economy not flogging a shot horse, so to speak. Especially given the amount of self regulation in the economy right now, i.e. organisations shit feared or unable to invest in anything of a large scale (wider issue than those afflicting Quinn right now, i know)

[keeping an eye on things]

So it's pats on the back for all who pay their taxes??

Plenty of Irish busniessmen are not registered in Ireland to get out of paying taxes to the state so I think paying 1 billion in taxes isn't to bad.


No but when you get involved in dodgy dealings to make yet more money than you could ever need or spend then that's going down the greed path...
[/quote]

Have you any evidence to back that up or can I mark that down as two stupid comments in a row?

[pintsofguinness]

Lets just wait and see what happens over the next couple of weeks...

[A Quinn Martin Production]

It's just amazing what greed does to people. Started the business from scratch but not happy with being a multi millionaire. 

That's a pretty stupid comment to be honest, is every person who wants to expand their business and better themselves greedy??    If being greedy provides thousands of jobs to the local area he is from and involves paying a considerable amount of tax to the government maybe it's not a bad afflication

Did Quinn not describe himself/his group as being a bit greedy in the wake of the Anglo Irish shareholding fiasco??

[Lar Naparka]

I don't think I have anything relevant to say about the controversy at the moment. I simply don't know any facts –plenty of opinions maybe but enough people are doing that already so I'll just say I haven't a clue as to which party is in the right in this matter.
But we did have a somewhat similar situation over 25 years ago when PMPA was the dominant player in the Irish insurance market sector. The man behind it was Joe Moore and he was in the Michael O'Leary mould. He had built up his business in a very short time and PMPA was offering far better packages than its competitors in both the car and house insurance business.
Out of the blue, the administrators went in. I think Moore arrived to work one morning to find a stranger in his office.  He was certainly barred there and then from involvement of any sort in his company's affairs.
The fuss was even greater than what is going on now. I think it's fair to sat that public sympathy was solidly behind Moore as he went on the attack, claiming there was nothing whatever wrong with his companies' finances and blaming Dessie O'Malley, the minister responsible for a private vendetta against him.
O'Malley had little or nothing to say in reply and he took an unmerciful pasting from Moore and his allies.
However, when the investigators produced their report, it was obvious that O'Malley hadn't acted a moment too soon as Moore was running the show as a personal fiefdom and genuinely seemed to be unable to grasp the basics of accountancy.
O'Malley was vindicated then and it was clear that he had decided to refrain from public comment to let the law follow its course.
Sean Quinn does seem to be a decent individual and I know a few who work for his companies and they all say he is a decent man and quite fair in his dealings with his employees. Unlike Joe Moore, he is not a showman and he seems to have a good business brain. I couldn't imagine him making a mess of his books in the manner of Moore.
Still, I doubt that the administrators were sent in lightly. I think it will take a good while yet before the picture becomes clear.

[boojangles]

I don't know the facts-do you? Does anybody with an unbiased opinion know them who can tell the public?
I don't know why QDI has been put into administration (as above)
I can't comment on the last question but let's just see how many other witchunts there might be in the coming months.
My point was that the chamber didn't make reference to any of the above. It just said protest against what might be catastophic. A bit narrow-minded I'd have thought.
To the main thread.......................

Why in gods name would the Cavan Chamber of Commerce make any reference to Anglo-Irish or anything else. Their brief and function is to protect and grow businesses in Cavan and it has the cop on to realise that this move could be catastrophically bad for alot of businesses in Cavan. You admit you don't know the facts Lawrence yet you still see fit to pass question over an organisations decision to support the employees of Quinn Direct and the company as a whole.
Now thats narrow-minded.

Do you think if something like this happened down in Cork and a few thousand jobs were at risk that people would be saying ''Oh lets wait and see what comes out of it,sure the regulator must be right'' Would they f**k. They would be out marching on the streets and kicking up a stink. Cavan people are too nice and we get walked over as a result.

As I said before,This isn't about Sean Quinn,its about standing up for an area that in alot of cases seen no Celtic Tiger. Cavan needs Quinn Direct and no matter what Sean Quinn did or did not do in relation to Anglo-Irish,this is a company that is fully functioning and making a profit and at the same time employing 900 hundred people in Cavan. Every person can make their own mind up but that for me is enough to support the workers.