Quinn Insurance in Administration

Started by An Gaeilgoir, March 30, 2010, 12:15:49 PM

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An Gaeilgoir

I see Quinn has written to every minister in the dáil tonight complaining about  heavy handed tactics by the regulator. It seems the new regulator is trying to show there is new sheriff in town, which is no bad thing. If Quinn is clean in all his dealings he has nothing to worry about. it would be a brave politician to back him at the moment, he might be a massive employer and generate a lot of money in the country, but if there are any dodgy deals that may undermine his company and customers policies, good luck to the regulator. Light touch regulation and a "see no evil hear no evil govt." has cost us 50 billion so far,  to be paid for by ordinary Joe and Josephine and their kids and probably their kids as well. Its a pity there is no such crime as "economic treason".

Denn Forever

I have more respect for a man
that says what he means and
means what he says...

orangeman

Didn't they hit Quinn with a massive fine there last year ?


Looks like someone is out to learn him a lesson or two.

Shrewdness

Was quoted 94 euros by FBD Insurance last November to renew insurance on the tractor.
Thought i'd try Quinn for a quote as i already had the car with them. They quoted me 333 Euros!!!!!!!

Changed my car insurance from them last week.

Bogball XV

Quote from: orangeman on March 30, 2010, 09:05:06 PM
Didn't they hit Quinn with a massive fine there last year ?


Looks like someone is out to learn him a lesson or two.
aye and that lesson in corporate governance and company legislation is one he should have picked up a long time ago - it's grand sailing a wee bit close to the wind when you're making glass and cement, but not every industry is the same and sometimes you actually have to abide by the legislation.

sammymaguire

Quote from: orangeman on March 30, 2010, 09:05:06 PM
Didn't they hit Quinn with a massive fine there last year ?

Looks like someone is out to learn him a lesson or two.

I agree, but I don't agree with Bogball. Quinn Group has been thrown out some very harsh treatment in the last 12 months (which he accepted fairly) but if he did decide to pull the plug on the whole lot and relocate his business operations to Poland/India or where ever then I am pretty sure that would cost the Irish government quite a few bob. The business has been and remains a shining light in the Irish economy over the last 20 years and because the monies within are being used as the company see fit to make it run successfully (and this does not lie well with the regulator) they are being hit hard (maybe its because they can afford it?)
DRIVE THAT BALL ON!!

supersarsfields

Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on March 30, 2010, 03:32:58 PM
Will people be able to renew their NI policies? They sent me out a renewal quote and letter a few days back (think I've another few weeks of my current policy). Has it been announced if they'll be honouring renewal quotes?

Hi Tam,

Things seem to have changed since yesterday. It looks like it might be starting to affect NI renewals aswell as UK so you might be as well giving customer service a buzz on 0850 850 0845 to see what they say.

Louth Exile

Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on March 30, 2010, 08:24:29 PM
I see Quinn has written to every minister in the dáil tonight complaining about  heavy handed tactics by the regulator. It seems the new regulator is trying to show there is new sheriff in town, which is no bad thing. If Quinn is clean in all his dealings he has nothing to worry about. it would be a brave politician to back him at the moment, he might be a massive employer and generate a lot of money in the country, but if there are any dodgy deals that may undermine his company and customers policies, good luck to the regulator. Light touch regulation and a "see no evil hear no evil govt." has cost us 50 billion so far,  to be paid for by ordinary Joe and Josephine and their kids and probably their kids as well. Its a pity there is no such crime as "economic treason".

I agree with you wholeheartedly. The only way a Dail deputy could come out in support of Quinn is if it was a Cavan deputy making an effort to save jobs. Patrick "pussy cat" Neary and his "let the big boys do what they want" regulation is a huge part of the problem we ended up in. Economic Treason for Quinn, Fitzpatrick, Fingleton & Denis Casey!
St. Josephs GFC - SFC Champions 1996 & 2006, IFC Champions 1983, 1990 & 2016 www.thejoesgfc.com

An Gaeilgoir

Quote from: sammymaguire on March 31, 2010, 09:26:28 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 30, 2010, 09:05:06 PM
Didn't they hit Quinn with a massive fine there last year ?

Looks like someone is out to learn him a lesson or two.

I agree, but I don't agree with Bogball. Quinn Group has been thrown out some very harsh treatment in the last 12 months (which he accepted fairly) but if he did decide to pull the plug on the whole lot and relocate his business operations to Poland/India or where ever then I am pretty sure that would cost the Irish government quite a few bob. The business has been and remains a shining light in the Irish economy over the last 20 years and because the monies within are being used as the company see fit to make it run successfully (and this does not lie well with the regulator) they are being hit hard (maybe its because they can afford it?)

I don't see any harsh treatment anywhere, you break the rules you get punished, if this was happening for the past ten years, maybe we would be 50 billion better off. Quinn is all the the things you say, big employer etc. but i have a sneaking suspicion he saw the regulators train coming down the tracks when he doled out 40 million to each of his kids a while back. I even heard someone talkingon the radio today about the 5,500 people he employs in Ireland, how many breaks of all kinds has he received from Govt. bodies to create these jobs. If Quinn had to save himself or the 5.500 jobs, which would he pick, people are not employed by these companies becuase the likes of Quinn are civic minded individuals, its all about the bottom line and if there weren't any improper dealings thier jobs and the company would be fine as it is quite profitable. Would the regulator be in if there isn't something dodgy or grey going on? I think he has enough to be doing these days. Good on him, clean this messing up for once and for all and let's start again with some proper corporate governence.

supersarsfields

Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on March 31, 2010, 11:01:55 AM
Quote from: sammymaguire on March 31, 2010, 09:26:28 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 30, 2010, 09:05:06 PM
Didn't they hit Quinn with a massive fine there last year ?

Looks like someone is out to learn him a lesson or two.

I agree, but I don't agree with Bogball. Quinn Group has been thrown out some very harsh treatment in the last 12 months (which he accepted fairly) but if he did decide to pull the plug on the whole lot and relocate his business operations to Poland/India or where ever then I am pretty sure that would cost the Irish government quite a few bob. The business has been and remains a shining light in the Irish economy over the last 20 years and because the monies within are being used as the company see fit to make it run successfully (and this does not lie well with the regulator) they are being hit hard (maybe its because they can afford it?)

I don't see any harsh treatment anywhere, you break the rules you get punished, if this was happening for the past ten years, maybe we would be 50 billion better off. Quinn is all the the things you say, big employer etc. but i have a sneaking suspicion he saw the regulators train coming down the tracks when he doled out 40 million to each of his kids a while back. I even heard someone talkingon the radio today about the 5,500 people he employs in Ireland, how many breaks of all kinds has he received from Govt. bodies to create these jobs. If Quinn had to save himself or the 5.500 jobs, which would he pick, people are not employed by these companies becuase the likes of Quinn are civic minded individuals, its all about the bottom line and if there weren't any improper dealings thier jobs and the company would be fine as it is quite profitable. Would the regulator be in if there isn't something dodgy or grey going on? I think he has enough to be doing these days. Good on him, clean this messing up for once and for all and let's start again with some proper corporate governence.

What ever about anything else I think your being unfair to Quinn on this. Out of any of the big business men Quinn has always been one to put the cares of his workers pretty high up on his list. When alot of other companies were stream lining their businesses Quinn was a making a obvious effort to make the least amount of redundancies as possible. He was moving people from different sectors to try and stop him having to make redundancies. He has always shown loyalty to his employees. and for this I believe he should be commended especially in these times when it would have been easy to cut the workforce.

An Gaeilgoir

#55
Quote from: supersarsfields on March 31, 2010, 11:08:34 AM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on March 31, 2010, 11:01:55 AM
Quote from: sammymaguire on March 31, 2010, 09:26:28 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 30, 2010, 09:05:06 PM
Didn't they hit Quinn with a massive fine there last year ?

Looks like someone is out to learn him a lesson or two.

I agree, but I don't agree with Bogball. Quinn Group has been thrown out some very harsh treatment in the last 12 months (which he accepted fairly) but if he did decide to pull the plug on the whole lot and relocate his business operations to Poland/India or where ever then I am pretty sure that would cost the Irish government quite a few bob. The business has been and remains a shining light in the Irish economy over the last 20 years and because the monies within are being used as the company see fit to make it run successfully (and this does not lie well with the regulator) they are being hit hard (maybe its because they can afford it?)

I don't see any harsh treatment anywhere, you break the rules you get punished, if this was happening for the past ten years, maybe we would be 50 billion better off. Quinn is all the the things you say, big employer etc. but i have a sneaking suspicion he saw the regulators train coming down the tracks when he doled out 40 million to each of his kids a while back. I even heard someone talkingon the radio today about the 5,500 people he employs in Ireland, how many breaks of all kinds has he received from Govt. bodies to create these jobs. If Quinn had to save himself or the 5.500 jobs, which would he pick, people are not employed by these companies becuase the likes of Quinn are civic minded individuals, its all about the bottom line and if there weren't any improper dealings thier jobs and the company would be fine as it is quite profitable. Would the regulator be in if there isn't something dodgy or grey going on? I think he has enough to be doing these days. Good on him, clean this messing up for once and for all and let's start again with some proper corporate governence.

What ever about anything else I think your being unfair to Quinn on this. Out of any of the big business men Quinn has always been one to put the cares of his workers pretty high up on his list. When alot of other companies were stream lining their businesses Quinn was a making a obvious effort to make the least amount of redundancies as possible. He was moving people from different sectors to try and stop him having to make redundancies. He has always shown loyalty to his employees. and for this I believe he should be commended especially in these times when it would have been easy to cut the workforce.

I'm sure that is the case, but i had a good friend of mine working in Anglo a couple of years ago would would have said the exact same thing about them, how many are on the dole due to their governence directly or in-directly? It Quinn goes tits up for any reason, it's the taxpayer who gets left the tab, we are still paying a 2 per cent levy on each insurance policy issued in this state since 1982 due to the PMPA fiasco. That is 28 years, add to that the 1 per cent levy stuck on by the governement to raise money, we are up to 3 per cent, if Quinn insurance gets in to bother for what ever reason, this will mean another 2 per cent levy to cover the cost of the company ( i was talking to a risk manager about this). So while Quinn may be a good employer is 5 per cent of all our policies for the next 28 years a good enough reason to leave him alone. Leaving people alone is why we are in this shit today.

mick999

A timeline in the Indo today of the issues surrounding the arrival of the Administrators :

Looks like this has been in the pipeline for a while... The regulator is right that Quinn Insurance cannot be giving guaranteed to other Quinn companies, which could leave QI insolvent ...

October 17, 2008:

The Financial Regulator reaches a €3.25m settlement with QIL after it found "reasonable cause to suspect" that regulatory requirements had been breached.

Sean Quinn is also fined €200,000 and steps down as chairman and director of QIL.

November 2008 to December 2009:

QIL submits a series of financial recovery plans to the financial regulator resulting in a €70,000,000 capital injection into QIL to boost its solvency margin and ratio. Quinn later informs the regulator that it will fall below its solvency margin because expected UK profits did not materialise.

Quinn acknowledges its position is "unacceptable".

Christmas Eve, 2009:

QIL sends an email to the regulator advising that the larger Quinn Group needs a waiver from its financiers in relation to the group's 2009 year-end debt covenants. Debt covenants are agreements between a company and its creditors that the company should operate within certain limits.

January 18, 2010:

The regulator asks QIL to formulate contingency plans for implementation in the event of the failure of the entire Quinn Group.

March 12, 2010:

The regulator rejects plan, saying the investment returns are "very optimistic" and profit forecasts "unrealistic" and pens a letter to Mr Quigley, stating it is "unconvinced the plan is realistic, sustainable or prudent".

March 16, 2010:

Mr Quigley meets the regulator to discuss the March 12 letter. During meeting, regulator outlines concerns, among other things, about QIL's equity and property exposures. QIL submits a revised plan.

March 24, 2010:

QIL drops a bombshell when it informs the regulator about the existence of guarantees by four QIL subsidiaries of advances to the Quinn Group. A plan to release the guarantees is rejected by the group's lenders and note holders.

March 30, 2010:

The High Court appoints provisional administrators to QIL, placing Ireland's second largest insurer into effective state control.


supersarsfields

Why are you putting the 5% levy at the foot of Quinn? The 3% levy already in place had nothing to do with QD.

Plus I've not mentioned anything about the administrator coming in. I'm just pointing out that Quinn has always been one to look after his work force. I'm sure he could have cut the costs of his call centres by relocating them elsewere but he's kept it within the local workforce. My comment was in response to your comment about his feelings regarding his workforce.

An Gaeilgoir

I'm not putting 5 per cent at the foot of Quinn, but if we are a nation are willing to pay this amount( plus 50 billion) for light touch regulation and be regarded as the wild west of finance in western Europe, lets keep going the way we are. As i said earlier if Quinn was so concerned with his workers futures and their welfare, maybe he wouldn't have been so free and easy with this company's corporate goverence and staturory obligations thus putting his valued workers immeadiate futures in jeopardy.

orangeman

The regulators are now being ultra careful - they sat on their holes throughout the entire boom and let banks and developers etc do whatever the hell they liked and then the shit hit the fan.


The insurance regulator is now probably being ultra careful and potentially jumping the gun.

I don't know all the details but I'd say they're trying to put manners in Quinn.


Quinn I've no doubt will emerge from this but not without a kicking.