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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: Il Bomber Destro on May 28, 2017, 11:16:17 AM

Title: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on May 28, 2017, 11:16:17 AM
Move along, nothing to see here.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Avondhu star on May 28, 2017, 04:03:04 PM
More of the "dirty stuff" probably being circulated by the "pro Dublin media"
Everyone is out to get Kerry
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on May 28, 2017, 05:17:23 PM
We may wait until Sport Ireland publish their findings before we can comment on this one but the Thomas Connolly case up in Monaghan never sat well with me.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: bennydorano on May 28, 2017, 07:55:34 PM
http://www.newstalk.com/Paul-Kimmage:-Theres-a-sense-that-this-is-being-managed-rather-than-addressed

Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 28, 2017, 08:00:06 PM
so what if you want to do body building (think steroids still legal there) and play gaelic (an amateur sport)  at club level, how does that work with the current rules
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: mcklatchee on May 28, 2017, 08:09:12 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 28, 2017, 08:00:06 PM
so what if you want to do body building (think steroids still legal there) and play gaelic (an amateur sport)  at club level, how does that work with the current rules

Then pick one or put the effort into the body building
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on May 29, 2017, 09:14:43 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 28, 2017, 08:00:06 PM
so what if you want to do body building (think steroids still legal there) and play gaelic (an amateur sport)  at club level, how does that work with the current rules

(https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/k1w1-aha-blog/uploads-v2/2016/04/disappointed.jpg)
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: yellowcard on May 29, 2017, 10:17:52 AM
Why are we not told what the product was in this case and why is this only getting into the public domian after the media discovered the story. Are there other cases od silent bans being served that we aren't aware of.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: DuffleKing on May 29, 2017, 10:33:03 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 28, 2017, 07:55:34 PM
http://www.newstalk.com/Paul-Kimmage:-Theres-a-sense-that-this-is-being-managed-rather-than-addressed

Club players are not subjected to drug testing nor answerable to the parameters of it.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: armaghniac on May 29, 2017, 10:39:57 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 29, 2017, 10:17:52 AM
Why are we not told what the product was in this case and why is this only getting into the public domian after the media discovered the story. Are there other cases od silent bans being served that we aren't aware of.

As O'Sé said on the Sunday Game last night, the details are not issued until the final report is released.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: bennydorano on May 29, 2017, 10:42:29 AM
How can the ban be served before the final report is released?? Ludicrous situation. Is this specific to the GAA or everyone subject to Sporting Ireland  rules?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: yellowcard on May 29, 2017, 11:01:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2017, 10:39:57 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 29, 2017, 10:17:52 AM
Why are we not told what the product was in this case and why is this only getting into the public domian after the media discovered the story. Are there other cases od silent bans being served that we aren't aware of.

As O'Sé said on the Sunday Game last night, the details are not issued until the final report is released.

But why has the report still not been issued if 13 months later it appears as though the suspension has already been issued and served. O'Se took the 'nothing to see here, now move along approach'.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Dinny Breen on May 29, 2017, 11:09:57 AM
All sports all levels otherwise we must have the largest weight lifting community in the world.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/steroids-medicines-worth-over-2-9999210 (http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/steroids-medicines-worth-over-2-9999210)


Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on May 29, 2017, 12:49:44 PM
I know for a fact that most of that Kildare squad are regular users of WD-40.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: bennydorano on May 29, 2017, 02:09:09 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/osullivan-says-contaminated-supplement-caused-positive-test-451156.html

"Last weekend, the42.ie revealed that five teams missed drugs tests since 2015 – Dublin hurlers, Mayo and Armagh footballers in '15 and Kilkenny's hurlers and Carlow's footballers (twice) in '16. Kilkenny, Carlow and Armagh explained change in training venues as reasons. Inter-county players are required to be available for drugs tests as part of their Government funding".
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 29, 2017, 03:51:30 PM
 I cant understand how the county players are drug tested , club players not, how much funding does the sport council / govt provide that they have to carry out tests. I had asthma for years and used salbutamol inhaler,  no issues, now my chest is worse and if i was playing anymore, i be using an even stronger inhaler, 1 in 5 of the country has asthma, how many club players have asthma, how many of those would fail a drug test. Peter Canavan had asthma and used an inhaler, would he be banned from doing so now?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: AZOffaly on May 29, 2017, 03:53:40 PM
That was the deal when the sports grants were given to IC players. As part of that, they had to sign up to Sports Ireland's protocols.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 29, 2017, 04:01:44 PM
but how much do players get from these sports grants, are they equaled distributed? do big counties get more than others?, do more high profile players get more money than others?,
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: AZOffaly on May 29, 2017, 04:08:27 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 29, 2017, 04:01:44 PM
but how much do players get from these sports grants, are they equaled distributed? do big counties get more than others?, do more high profile players get more money than others?,

I think the grants are weighted depending on how far you go in the championship. Used to be anyway. Only adds up to a couple of grand anyway.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: smelmoth on May 29, 2017, 04:41:39 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 29, 2017, 02:09:09 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/osullivan-says-contaminated-supplement-caused-positive-test-451156.html

"Last weekend, the42.ie revealed that five teams missed drugs tests since 2015 – Dublin hurlers, Mayo and Armagh footballers in '15 and Kilkenny's hurlers and Carlow's footballers (twice) in '16. Kilkenny, Carlow and Armagh explained change in training venues as reasons. Inter-county players are required to be available for drugs tests as part of their Government funding".

First I've heard of this. Raises a number of important questions.

What is the GAA view of drug taking? If grant funding was not at stake would they bother with testing?

Does the testing meet the minimum requirement for grant funding eligibility but go no further?

How far in advance do county sides have to say where they are going to be?

Do counties have to advise of their alternative training facilities?

When a tester turns up and there is nobody there to test do they contact a designated person to find out where the training panel are?

What are consequences of missing a test and what are the additional consequences for missing 2 in a year? Thinking of the Rio Ferdinand and Christine Ohuruogu incidents
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: manfromdelmonte on May 29, 2017, 05:59:41 PM
Mayo should have missed a few more testing dates and loaded up!

seriously though, I'd like to see a few clubs tested as a random sample
there are a few gym obsessed clubs down our way
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on May 29, 2017, 06:42:21 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 29, 2017, 03:51:30 PM
Peter Canavan had asthma and used an inhaler, would he be banned from doing so now?

No there are exemptions for people with asthma but there are still limits on what amounts they can have in their system. I'd say there are a good few dubious asthma exemptions out there right now.

What is interesting is that the only two players to fail drugs tests in competition have been Kerry players, both after playing in national finals, doesn't fit with their self-proclaimed virtuous reputation.

I think there should be some facts and figures released regarding players per county squads who have TEUs. Would give some interesting reading on which counties maybe pushing the rules to the limit.

I'd say a lot of county players would be doing a good bit of this before being called into squads in order to bulk up etc but its the ones that aid the cardio and endurance side of things I'd be really interested in getting a bit deeper into it. O'Mahony's feigned ignorance didn't wash with me one bit back in 2008, as he had the exemption he would have known full well what the limits he was allowed use and not allowed use.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on May 29, 2017, 07:21:34 PM
The GAA have disappointed once again in this case. In my view he should have faced a longer ban, ignorance should not be an excuse. 2 years would have been a fair deterrent. Blood and Anabolic doping should carry a minimum 4 year ban.   
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: LCohen on May 29, 2017, 07:54:42 PM
How many Kerry footballers were tested and passed in 2015 or 2016? To be honest the same stats from the other counties would be interesting.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: bennydorano on May 29, 2017, 07:58:48 PM
Circling the wagons seems to be the default position in Ireland. Irish Rugby is the prime example. Kimmage gets a lot of stick from the Rugby crowd.

Hard to know what the GAA's attitude is, I doubt it's an endemic problem but with the hush hush nature of the dealings in this case how would you even know where to start to look? Primarily seems to be a 'sure we're amateurs why should it apply to us' attitude - which ignores the obvious elephant in the room as well.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: yellowcard on May 29, 2017, 08:52:05 PM
Marc O'Se's defence of this earlier on The Last Word was embarrassing. Basically said he was a lovely fellow and he wasn't into fast cars or money so he wouldn't be doing anything untowar!! There was a bit of the Michael Healy Rae about the coversation. What astounded me was his absolute belief that he was innocent given that he seemed to know nothing about the incident himself until the last few days.

He could well be innocent but let's find out the facts first. Nobody wants to persecute O'Sullivan personally but there is a wider issue that nobody in the GAA and other team sports (rugby in particular) seem to want to address. 

Kerry county board and management would have been aware of this issue yet appear not to have told any of their players anything about it.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on May 29, 2017, 09:46:16 PM
It was very poor form from Marc Ó'Sé, he also stated that O'Sullivan didn't benefit from having the banned stimulant in his system for an important game of football. He isn't that stupid to believe what he was saying.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on May 29, 2017, 09:52:56 PM
Kerry players would never wittingly do anything wrong.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Gael85 on May 30, 2017, 07:57:24 AM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/paul-kimmage-and-kerry-legend-marc-s-in-compelling-radio-debate-over-osullivan-doping-case-35768361.html
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: DJGaliv on May 30, 2017, 11:49:30 AM
The Gaa - in fact our attitude to this positive finding makes Jerry Kiernan's words seem apposite on Gaa players talking about the sacrifices they make, or how they train like professionals. How they are elite sportsmen and how seriously they take their preparations.
I would have argued heavily against JK till watching the current reaction.

When it comes to a positive test all of a sudden god we are only amateurs don't be holding us accountable for what we put into our bodies.

If you have a smart phone I would advise look at App Store and download the free app Irish spots council medication checker. Keep to that and you won't go wrong. It's very simple isn't it. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Our club team has access to a dietician. Every team in top divisions definitely has access to a dietician.

I know runners working full time with no grants who are afraid of their life of taking anything as they are fully aware that regardless of a contaminated batch or an honest mistake the rule everyone knows is your body your responsibility. We laugh when we hear team GB excuses of a contaminated batch but when it's one of our own it's a credible excuse. 

I have to laugh that one player gets crucified by all over doing some media work and another lad gets backed up and excused after failing a doping test.

I don't think gaa has a doping problem but this circling of the wagons is terrible to see. I'd say it probably is an honest mistake but what does this tell an impressionable lad of 19 who's been told he's not good enough for county. Sure go for it, worst case scenario say sure I'm only an amateur - you weren't to know.


I think that the players at risk of abuse are lads trying to break into the county set up, or lads at no 24 in county panels trying to make a push for starting place. I do think these lads are lone wolves really, and it's taking a chance on supplements bought online. This isn't just protein or creatine they are looking for.

One last question-  to people using this amateur excuse realise that a lot of our Irish track and field athletes work too? Do they think that Ciara Everard is sitting back on her 12k a year grant and not working?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: yellowcard on May 30, 2017, 12:55:31 PM
There are 2 questions in this case:

1) What was the name of the contaminated supplement?
2) Why were other Kerry squad members not told not to take this supplement when they were aware that there was a danger of a positive test.

You have an eejit like Parkinson saying that there is absolutely no issue with drugs in the GAA, that it's filthy sports like athletics and cycling that have the problems. How does he even know this, it's a case of batten down the hatches and hear no evil see no evil. He has his own media interests and access rights to protect so he tows the line. The GAA authorities and media outlets shouldn't just pretend that this is not a potential issue because it is. I don't believe it is widespread but you can bet your bottom dollar that there are individual players who are acting alone in seeking out any physical advantage they can get. Anyone who has ever played the sport knows of players who would have carried the contents of a small pharmacy in the side pocket of their gear bag. More often than not, these were players who were big into physical fitness and gym work. Where a gym culture exists there always exists a danger that players will take short cuts.   
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on May 30, 2017, 02:05:11 PM
I found Parkinson's views on it very puzzling. For someone who has basically built his GAA media career on being anti the old farts and conservatives in the upper echelons of GAA bureaucracy he has adopted a virulent "there's nothing to see here" approach to doping in the GAA. Even rowing with players like Eamonn McGee and Aidan O'Rourke over articles they wrote over the weekend. Or in O'Rourke's case I think he gave his views on Twitter rather than in an article.

He view seems to be because not very many GAA players have actually been caught it's not a problem.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: ballinaman on May 30, 2017, 03:14:33 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 30, 2017, 02:05:11 PM
I found Parkinson's views on it very puzzling. For someone who has basically built his GAA media career on being anti the old farts and conservatives in the upper echelons of GAA bureaucracy he has adopted a virulent "there's nothing to see here" approach to doping in the GAA. Even rowing with players like Eamonn McGee and Aidan O'Rourke over articles they wrote over the weekend. Or in O'Rourke's case I think he gave his views on Twitter rather than in an article.

He view seems to be because not very many GAA players have actually been caught it's not a problem.
Yeah, his main argument was that he hadn't seen any doping during his time so that's enough evidence for him. Hate to break it to Wolly, his time is over.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: tonto1888 on May 30, 2017, 03:58:29 PM
I dont know how anyone can say there is a problem of doping in the GAA when there have only been a couple of positive tests in the last number of years. That said, didn't yer man on the GAAHour say there was only something like 96 tests carried out last year so certainly there needs to be a lot more testing. You cant also make sweeping statements like people are in the gym more and more therefore ther will be doping - not aimed at anyone on this board but a twitter user.
Last point, its not like GAA has a history of this type of thing like say cycling does.

Regrading the Kerry players identity not being released was that not more to do with the fact he was appealing?
I'm prepard for people to tell me I'm burying my head in the sand.Im not. If there are people in the GAA doping I want them found out and banned, I just don't think you can say there is a culture of it. Certainly not with what we know at the moment
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: bennydorano on May 30, 2017, 05:01:58 PM
If the bans are secret how do you know what's really going on, that is (part of) the point. This was exposed by a Journo, there was no declarations by Kerry Gaa or Sport Ireland. As Kimmage said it smacks of managing a problem rather than dealing with it.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: tonto1888 on May 30, 2017, 05:17:05 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 30, 2017, 05:01:58 PM
If the bans are secret how do you know what's really going on, that is (part of) the point. This was exposed by a Journo, there was no declarations by Kerry Gaa or Sport Ireland. As Kimmage said it smacks of managing a problem rather than dealing with it.

Wasn't it kept under wraps because the guy kept appealing it
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Saffrongael on May 30, 2017, 05:26:13 PM
Tomas OSe took the "shut look Des there is nothing going on here"
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: yellowcard on May 30, 2017, 05:42:52 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on May 30, 2017, 05:26:13 PM
Tomas OSe took the "shut look Des there is nothing going on here"

Hear no evil see no evil, ach sure look Des he's a lovely fellow. Which he could well be, but what has that got to do with whether he took a performance enhancing product or not.

According to Marc O'Se on the Matt Cooper show, the players never knew anything about it until the story broke in the last few days. Aw c'mon Matt, sure I sat beside him in the dressing room and he's not the sort of fella who would be into that sort of stuff. A lovely young fella, sure look, he wouldn't be into fast cars or money or any of that sort of thing. Next question please Matt.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: DJGaliv on May 30, 2017, 06:30:23 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 30, 2017, 03:58:29 PM
I dont know how anyone can say there is a problem of doping in the GAA when there have only been a couple of positive tests in the last number of years. That said, didn't yer man on the GAAHour say there was only something like 96 tests carried out last year so certainly there needs to be a lot more testing. You cant also make sweeping statements like people are in the gym more and more therefore ther will be doping - not aimed at anyone on this board but a twitter user.
Last point, its not like GAA has a history of this type of thing like say cycling does.

Regrading the Kerry players identity not being released was that not more to do with the fact he was appealing?
I'm prepard for people to tell me I'm burying my head in the sand.Im not. If there are people in the GAA doping I want them found out and banned, I just don't think you can say there is a culture of it. Certainly not with what we know at the moment

Sorry now, but totally disagree with you there.

This is going round in circles - nobody is saying GAA has a big doping problem so don't know who you are arguing with.
What is feeding the flames of this debate is this type of deflective attitude when coming under pressure for one of the players in a top 2 team failing a drug test. "Sure we're not like cycling, leave the lads be".

Can there not be a number of lads taking supplements bought online without there being a culture of it. 20 years ago you wouldn't have lads weighing their food, and making quinoa salads - all looking for that extra percentage. It's that strive for the extra percentage that's gonna make 1% of lads go overboard and take the risk. Because that's what it is when you buy supplements yourself outside the team dietician, you are taking a risk.

Sport Ireland even have a page dedicated to managing that risk if you do, against their advice, decide to purchase supplements.

Load of lads commenting in media basically making two points deflecting away.

1) I didn't take any dodgy supplements, wouldn't do it, and didn't see anyone do it in my time er go there's no doping in GAA.
2) He's a good guy and not that kind of player

1) Sport is a different world today than what it was 10, or even 5 years ago. The margins are getting even tighter, lads are pushing the boundaries all the time. I think lads secretly go down these roads by themselves rather than any culture or organisation to it. Probably handful of lads doing it, but doing it nonetheless.

2) This is same defence lads who get sent off for a bad tackle get said about them afterwards. If you did it you are that kind of player. These dopers are regular joe soaps, unremarkable lads. Some people have this notion that dopers are easy to spot, like as if there's a Rasputin looking character muttering 19th century Russian getting ready for a Meath trial in a changing room in Dunshaughlin.


Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: yellowcard on May 30, 2017, 06:36:08 PM
Quote from: DJGaliv on May 30, 2017, 06:30:23 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 30, 2017, 03:58:29 PM
I dont know how anyone can say there is a problem of doping in the GAA when there have only been a couple of positive tests in the last number of years. That said, didn't yer man on the GAAHour say there was only something like 96 tests carried out last year so certainly there needs to be a lot more testing. You cant also make sweeping statements like people are in the gym more and more therefore ther will be doping - not aimed at anyone on this board but a twitter user.
Last point, its not like GAA has a history of this type of thing like say cycling does.

Regrading the Kerry players identity not being released was that not more to do with the fact he was appealing?
I'm prepard for people to tell me I'm burying my head in the sand.Im not. If there are people in the GAA doping I want them found out and banned, I just don't think you can say there is a culture of it. Certainly not with what we know at the moment

Sorry now, but totally disagree with you there.

This is going round in circles - nobody is saying GAA has a big doping problem so don't know who you are arguing with.
What is feeding the flames of this debate is this type of deflective attitude when coming under pressure for one of the players in a top 2 team failing a drug test. "Sure we're not like cycling, leave the lads be".

Can there not be a number of lads taking supplements bought online without there being a culture of it. 20 years ago you wouldn't have lads weighing their food, and making quinoa salads - all looking for that extra percentage. It's that strive for the extra percentage that's gonna make 1% of lads go overboard and take the risk. Because that's what it is when you buy supplements yourself outside the team dietician, you are taking a risk.

Sport Ireland even have a page dedicated to managing that risk if you do, against their advice, decide to purchase supplements.

Load of lads commenting in media basically making two points deflecting away.

1) I didn't take any dodgy supplements, wouldn't do it, and didn't see anyone do it in my time er go there's no doping in GAA.
2) He's a good guy and not that kind of player

1) Sport is a different world today than what it was 10, or even 5 years ago. The margins are getting even tighter, lads are pushing the boundaries all the time. I think lads secretly go down these roads by themselves rather than any culture or organisation to it. Probably handful of lads doing it, but doing it nonetheless.

2) This is same defence lads who get sent off for a bad tackle get said about them afterwards. If you did it you are that kind of player. These dopers are regular joe soaps, unremarkable lads. Some people have this notion that dopers are easy to spot, like as if there's a Rasputin looking character muttering 19th century Russian getting ready for a Meath trial in a changing room in Dunshaughlin.

Agree with that 100%.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: mcklatchee on May 30, 2017, 07:20:51 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 29, 2017, 02:09:09 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/osullivan-says-contaminated-supplement-caused-positive-test-451156.html

"Last weekend, the42.ie revealed that five teams missed drugs tests since 2015 – Dublin hurlers, Mayo and Armagh footballers in '15 and Kilkenny's hurlers and Carlow's footballers (twice) in '16. Kilkenny, Carlow and Armagh explained change in training venues as reasons. Inter-county players are required to be available for drugs tests as part of their Government funding".

The low level of testing, the seeming ease with which tests can be avoided, the seeming lack of consequences for avoiding a test, the non publication of the test failure by the authorities and the overall circling of the wagons are all as worrying as O'Sullivan's test failure. 

The authorities are in dock for first 4 of these

There really has to be answers
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: tonto1888 on May 30, 2017, 08:12:08 PM
Quote from: DJGaliv on May 30, 2017, 06:30:23 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 30, 2017, 03:58:29 PM
I dont know how anyone can say there is a problem of doping in the GAA when there have only been a couple of positive tests in the last number of years. That said, didn't yer man on the GAAHour say there was only something like 96 tests carried out last year so certainly there needs to be a lot more testing. You cant also make sweeping statements like people are in the gym more and more therefore ther will be doping - not aimed at anyone on this board but a twitter user.
Last point, its not like GAA has a history of this type of thing like say cycling does.

Regrading the Kerry players identity not being released was that not more to do with the fact he was appealing?
I'm prepard for people to tell me I'm burying my head in the sand.Im not. If there are people in the GAA doping I want them found out and banned, I just don't think you can say there is a culture of it. Certainly not with what we know at the moment

Sorry now, but totally disagree with you there.

This is going round in circles - nobody is saying GAA has a big doping problem so don't know who you are arguing with.
What is feeding the flames of this debate is this type of deflective attitude when coming under pressure for one of the players in a top 2 team failing a drug test. "Sure we're not like cycling, leave the lads be".

Can there not be a number of lads taking supplements bought online without there being a culture of it. 20 years ago you wouldn't have lads weighing their food, and making quinoa salads - all looking for that extra percentage. It's that strive for the extra percentage that's gonna make 1% of lads go overboard and take the risk. Because that's what it is when you buy supplements yourself outside the team dietician, you are taking a risk.

Sport Ireland even have a page dedicated to managing that risk if you do, against their advice, decide to purchase supplements.

Load of lads commenting in media basically making two points deflecting away.

1) I didn't take any dodgy supplements, wouldn't do it, and didn't see anyone do it in my time er go there's no doping in GAA.
2) He's a good guy and not that kind of player

1) Sport is a different world today than what it was 10, or even 5 years ago. The margins are getting even tighter, lads are pushing the boundaries all the time. I think lads secretly go down these roads by themselves rather than any culture or organisation to it. Probably handful of lads doing it, but doing it nonetheless.

2) This is same defence lads who get sent off for a bad tackle get said about them afterwards. If you did it you are that kind of player. These dopers are regular joe soaps, unremarkable lads. Some people have this notion that dopers are easy to spot, like as if there's a Rasputin looking character muttering 19th century Russian getting ready for a Meath trial in a changing room in Dunshaughlin.
Yeah, I could have been clearer. I wasn't putting that out against anyone on here but some in twitter are saying good there is a big problem. One particular person saying that as the gym has become. Ore and more a part of GAA then so has doping.
I never said leave the lads be. I said if anyone is doping then I want them caught and banned. I also never mentioned soiled supplements as an excuse. The guy failed a drugs test. That's on him.
My point about cycling was that if we had anywhere near the number of failed tests as cycling does, or athletics, then we could say there is a culture.
I'm not trying to deflect at all. I also mentioned the small number of tests carried out. We need more testing I think. 
Your post was a good one. I enjoyed reading it
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on May 30, 2017, 08:23:20 PM
What strikes me about the two Kerry lads who have failed these doping tests is that they did it post game - both after national finals. Call me a cynic here but that doesn't seem like naivety.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: macdanger2 on May 30, 2017, 08:50:17 PM
Agree 100% with DJGaliv.

There may or may not be a culture of doping but failed tests indicates that more needs to be done to investigate and eliminate it. Sticking your head in the sand and saying there's no problem doesn't make it so

I'd imagine it's very easy to get these drugs and the chances of being tested are minimal - 96 tests last year works out at <1/5000 chance of being tested on any given day for an intercounty player. Particularly guys who are on the fringes of panels/teams, there's huge incentive and tiny risk.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Ball Hopper on May 30, 2017, 08:52:38 PM
From the Irish Examiner today:

"It is believed O'Sullivan sought an alternative tablet form to the caffeine gels his Kerry colleagues were taking, and made the mistake of sourcing the product over the counter from a health store.

He was unfortunate that the particular batch he bought was found in subsequent testing to be contaminated.

He has acknowledged his "rookie error" with regard to not going through Kerry team nutritionist Kevin Beasley or team medic, Dr Mike Finnerty."


Very foolish of him, to put it mildly, just because he didn't like the taste of the "official" supplement.

Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: tonto1888 on May 30, 2017, 09:12:19 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on May 30, 2017, 08:50:17 PM
Agree 100% with DJGaliv.

There may or may not be a culture of doping but failed tests indicates that more needs to be done to investigate and eliminate it. Sticking your head in the sand and saying there's no problem doesn't make it so

I'd imagine it's very easy to get these drugs and the chances of being tested are minimal - 96 tests last year works out at <1/5000 chance for an intercounty player. Particularly guys who are on the fringes of panels/teams, there's huge incentive and tiny risk.

How did you work out those odds?
I agree there needs to be more testing. If more players are doping. Find them and ban them
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on May 30, 2017, 09:51:43 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on May 30, 2017, 08:52:38 PM
From the Irish Examiner today:

"It is believed O'Sullivan sought an alternative tablet form to the caffeine gels his Kerry colleagues were taking, and made the mistake of sourcing the product over the counter from a health store.

He was unfortunate that the particular batch he bought was found in subsequent testing to be contaminated.

He has acknowledged his "rookie error" with regard to not going through Kerry team nutritionist Kevin Beasley or team medic, Dr Mike Finnerty."


Very foolish of him, to put it mildly, just because he didn't like the taste of the "official" supplement.

It all sounds a bit like Fr Ted's protestations about the money simply resting in his account.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: macdanger2 on May 30, 2017, 10:09:53 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 30, 2017, 09:12:19 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on May 30, 2017, 08:50:17 PM
Agree 100% with DJGaliv.

There may or may not be a culture of doping but failed tests indicates that more needs to be done to investigate and eliminate it. Sticking your head in the sand and saying there's no problem doesn't make it so

I'd imagine it's very easy to get these drugs and the chances of being tested are minimal - 96 tests last year works out at <1/5000 chance for an intercounty player. Particularly guys who are on the fringes of panels/teams, there's huge incentive and tiny risk.

How did you work out those odds?
I agree there needs to be more testing. If more players are doping. Find them and ban them

Say 30 players on 45 intercounty squads (leaving out most of the lower level hurling teams) by 365 days / year gives almost half a million divided by 96 gives ~1/5000 chances of being tested on a given day
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: magpie seanie on May 30, 2017, 11:03:48 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 29, 2017, 03:53:40 PM
That was the deal when the sports grants were given to IC players. As part of that, they had to sign up to Sports Ireland's protocols.

Which is part of the problem and something that was never discussed at the time. That congress in Sligo where the grants were accepted was a terrible day for the GAA and has led to things like this. It's sickening to hear a guy who knowingly cheated in his own professional cycling career attacking and questioning the integrity of the GAA and IC players but sadly, they're fair game now. This Kerry player's misdemeanour for want of a better word is nothing in comparison to what Kimmage did himself. However we have to accept him and others using this as a reason to have a go at the GAA and our players simply because the IC players are getting paid. And that's what we have to accept. They are getting paid so they will be treated like professionals. Our own hypocrisy as GAA people is exposed here. We think the lad was stupid for not consulting the team medic and/or the team nutritionist yet we still pretend he's an amateur player. Time to wise up......we can't have it both ways. Saying we respect the amateur ethos doesn't change the facts.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: gallsman on May 30, 2017, 11:37:06 PM
Refreshing to see some of the views here, a few rather unsurprisingly disappointing although not unexpected. Heads are buried in the sand all over the country on this issue.

He is responsible for what's in his system. End of. The Kerry set up is exceptionally professional. Going looking for your own supplements, independent of the medical team, is idiotic at best. As for the"contaminated supplement" excuse, was it actually contaminated​ or was the MHA simply an ingredient in whatever he took?

The whole episode smacks of a cover up and I doubt it would have come to light at all if there hadn't been some serious digging.

Every Kerry media figure on the defensive has been an embarrassment - Marc, Tomas, Micheal Quirke etc.

As for Parkinson, he always has and always will be a complete and utter gobshite. Well suited to that garbage Joe.ie.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on May 31, 2017, 09:10:06 AM
Dopers are regular people.
Not commenting on this specific case as the level of specific intent seems to be minimal, but the whole 'He's a good lad' angle is utterly irrelevant one way or the other.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: AZOffaly on May 31, 2017, 09:14:48 AM
Absolutely it is. I think what they are trying to do is minimise the blow back on this lad, especially if it is a genuine case of stupidity rather than cheating.

I'm all for this, and I think in the GAA not only do we have to be squeaky clean, but we have to be seen to be squeaky clean. That said, even in my own days there was a quare amount of asthmatics in dressing rooms.

These days, with the medical and nutrition support staffs that all counties have, there is no excuse to take any supplement or medicine without clearing it with them. If you do, and you get unlucky, then that's on you.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: gallsman on May 31, 2017, 09:39:56 AM
Quirke on Second Captains gave out that there's not enough education to lads about what they can and can't take, gave the example of taking Nurofen vs Nurofen Plus for a headache. I don't buy that for a second - anything you intend to take outside the "official" regimen, clear it with the medical team. If you decide you're going to take a chance and look after your own side of things, that is entirely on you. It's pretty simple.

Quirke also gave the example of people in the Olympics having far more financial incentive to succeed and thus should be held to a higher standard than hurlers or footballers. John Greene was on with him and absolutely had a field day with that, pointing out that many GAA lads would have far more "professional" support or opportunity to make a bit of coin than your average canoeist, for example.

As for the "he's not that type of guy" or "he's a good lad" bullshit, anyone spouting it should be laughed out of the place.

Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on May 31, 2017, 10:58:13 AM
Financial gain has very little to do with it in most cases.
Most of the people caught doping are amateur athletes.
The reaction to everything in Kerry is to circle the wagons, and frankly they don't give a damn what anyone else thinks about them, not least the media 'up in Dublin'.
It's a pity that their response is seen as representative of the wider association.
If somebody takes something they shouldn't, either deliberately or inadvertently, it is only right and proper that the system picks it up and deals with it accordingly.
I would have some concerns with the way this was handled once he tested positive, as it seems like he was treated differently to say a cyclist in the same boat.
Sport Ireland should explain why this is only coming out now, and via a newspaper article as well.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: armaghniac on May 31, 2017, 11:18:07 AM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/comment-inhaler-confusion-in-ulster-shows-how-little-gaa-players-really-know-about-doping-issue-35773860.html
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: yellowcard on May 31, 2017, 11:50:03 AM
If they would name the contaminated supplement it could put a stop to a lot of the innuendo.

It could be innocent enough, but the whole episode gives the appearance of there being something to hide even if there wasn't.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on May 31, 2017, 11:59:47 AM
If you're happy to take the governments money via the GPA, you're obliged to educate yourself on the risks of supplements, medicines etc.
We're not talking about children here.
Players are always banging on about training like professionals, maybe it's time to start acting like professionals.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: magpie seanie on May 31, 2017, 12:05:32 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 31, 2017, 11:59:47 AM
If you're happy to take the governments money via the GPA, you're obliged to educate yourself on the risks of supplements, medicines etc.
We're not talking about children here.
Players are always banging on about training like professionals, maybe it's time to start acting like professionals.

Nail on the head.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: tonto1888 on May 31, 2017, 12:13:07 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 31, 2017, 11:59:47 AM
If you're happy to take the governments money via the GPA, you're obliged to educate yourself on the risks of supplements, medicines etc.
We're not talking about children here.
Players are always banging on about training like professionals, maybe it's time to start acting like professionals.

not defending anybody but professionals have used the same, or a variant of, that excuse
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: gallsman on May 31, 2017, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 31, 2017, 11:50:03 AM
If they would name the contaminated supplement it could put a stop to a lot of the innuendo.

It could be innocent enough, but the whole episode gives the appearance of there being something to hide even if there wasn't.

Precisely - as I said, I'm keen to know whether a clean supplement was contaminated, or whether the supplement actually contained the MHA as an ingredient. An important distinction.

While all of it might be an innocent mistake, the actions of all parties involved so far give the impression that it was anything but.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on May 31, 2017, 12:49:33 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 31, 2017, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 31, 2017, 11:50:03 AM
If they would name the contaminated supplement it could put a stop to a lot of the innuendo.

It could be innocent enough, but the whole episode gives the appearance of there being something to hide even if there wasn't.

Precisely - as I said, I'm keen to know whether a clean supplement was contaminated, or whether the supplement actually contained the MHA as an ingredient. An important distinction.

While all of it might be an innocent mistake, the actions of all parties involved so far give the impression that it was anything but.

For what's it's worth the former head of British cycling was on Twitter yesterday saying that the whole "contaminated supplement" argument is a load of nonsense and the amount of supplements that are truly contaminated is negligible.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on May 31, 2017, 02:03:22 PM
You can buy supplements online from god knows where that contain god knows what.
The idea that it's regulated like the food industry is nonsense.
It's like the wild west so the former head of British cycling is talking out his hoop.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Ball Hopper on May 31, 2017, 02:55:40 PM
What really needs to be brought to the fore is the possible effects of these substances/chemicals or whatever they are best called. 

This is from wikipedia, although the quantities taken are unknown, it makes me wonder if a life might have been saved here.

"The US Food and Drug Administration has stated that methylhexanamine "is known to narrow the blood vessels and arteries, which can elevate blood pressure and may lead to cardiovascular events ranging from shortness of breath and tightening in the chest to heart attack." 

Numerous adverse events and at least five deaths have been reported in association with methylhexanamine-containing dietary supplements."
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: gallsman on May 31, 2017, 03:01:49 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 31, 2017, 02:03:22 PM
You can buy supplements online from god knows where that contain god knows what.
The idea that it's regulated like the food industry is nonsense.
It's like the wild west so the former head of British cycling is talking out his hoop.

That doesn't necessarily mean it's "contaminated".

If you buy a supplement and MHA is listed as one of the ingredients, you can't complain that your supplement was contaminated (and thus your plea of innocence is stronger). You simply bought a supplement containing a banned substance.

However - there is a simple solution to anyone worried about what supplements from dodgy online retailers contain. Don't f**king buy or use them!
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on May 31, 2017, 03:14:10 PM
 Ian O'Riordan ‏Verified account @ianoriordan 2h2 hours ago

1/2 Of all the amateur reactions to Brendan O'Sullivan's doping positive, and there are many, is the idea the supplement was 'contaminated'
0 replies 7 retweets 17 likes

2/2. no supplement is 'contaminated'; methylhexaneamine (MHA) was deliberately/purposely added. Name the product please @sportireland
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on May 31, 2017, 03:27:27 PM
He's another one talking out his hoop.

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/05/02/exposed-the-contaminated-supplements-including-diet-pills-implicated-in-multiple-drug-test-bans/ (http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/05/02/exposed-the-contaminated-supplements-including-diet-pills-implicated-in-multiple-drug-test-bans/)

The four rugby players had all taken USN's Anabolic Nitro. Mensing, a footballer in Scotland's top division, had taken USN's weight loss product, Xedra-Cut.

Mensing's case was heard at the end of January and he had served his ban by the end of February.

However, a spokeswoman for USN has confirmed the product recall on Xedra-Cut was not made until 18 March, claiming USN did not know of a contamination risk until 17 March.

On 1 March, knowing there was a contamination issue with Anabolic Nitro, USN put out a press release linked here. It doesn't actually mention professional athletes failing drugs tests. At the time of writing it hasn't been updated to include any warning about Xedra-Cut.

Rather it states, as of 2 May 2011: "USN ensures that all risks for elite athletes are reduced by conducting product screening."

And later in the release it says: "USN does not include methylhexaneamine in any of its product formulations." (This is absolutely true – but does neglect to make any reference whatsoever to at least five professional sportsmen who took USN products and then tested positive for MHA, coincidentally or otherwise).
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 31, 2017, 03:48:51 PM
The issue is that supplements are endemic in all sports and among young lads who want to improve their physique.  The attitude to supplements needs to change.  If you don't take supplements you can't take a contaminated substance.  If you believe that supplements are necessary and work towards improving your ability to compete, does the next step become to difficult for some to avoid.

http://www.irishnews.com/sport/2015/05/11/news/protein-bulking-is-the-whey-of-the-sporting-world-127818/ (http://www.irishnews.com/sport/2015/05/11/news/protein-bulking-is-the-whey-of-the-sporting-world-127818/)

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/donegal-captain-michael-murphy-defends-use-of-nutritional-supplements-1.1465636 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/donegal-captain-michael-murphy-defends-use-of-nutritional-supplements-1.1465636)

http://www.kineticasports.com/gaa-t11 (http://www.kineticasports.com/gaa-t11)
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: DJGaliv on May 31, 2017, 03:53:44 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0531/879358-more-drugs-tests/


"I'm not naive enough to think that there aren't people cheating and taking drugs to improve their performance in our sports and nor do I think it's a widespread problem. But we won't know one way or the other unless there is a much more far-reaching testing programme."
From Philip Jordan.

A good piece from Philip Jordan. Better than a lot of the nonsense being spoken by Colm Parkinson and Quirke. It's annoying about Parkinson as I really liked his podcast and offered pretty smart viewpoints, however his stance on drug taking is amateur hour.

With regard the other Kerry lads, I think the more they are debated against by the media or Kimmage or whoever, the more entrenched their views become on this issue.

This education thing is laughable too, these are grown men with third level degrees we are talking about. Having been in these set ups in the past, you would have had a team meeting with the GPA talking about anti doping, also a talk from your nutritionist, then you have the Doc and physio all giving their advice into the mix too.
What more do they want, a postgraduate diploma in pharmacy taken over 12 months?

I think Jordan has hit a nice balance with his column today, that is very hard to argue with.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 09:48:58 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 31, 2017, 03:48:51 PM
The issue is that supplements are endemic in all sports and among young lads who want to improve their physique.  The attitude to supplements needs to change.  If you don't take supplements you can't take a contaminated substance.  If you believe that supplements are necessary and work towards improving your ability to compete, does the next step become to difficult for some to avoid.

http://www.irishnews.com/sport/2015/05/11/news/protein-bulking-is-the-whey-of-the-sporting-world-127818/ (http://www.irishnews.com/sport/2015/05/11/news/protein-bulking-is-the-whey-of-the-sporting-world-127818/)

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/donegal-captain-michael-murphy-defends-use-of-nutritional-supplements-1.1465636 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/donegal-captain-michael-murphy-defends-use-of-nutritional-supplements-1.1465636)

http://www.kineticasports.com/gaa-t11 (http://www.kineticasports.com/gaa-t11)

Not sure if I buy this 'gateway drug' theory when it comes to supplements.
However, I do think players need to be very wary of the fat-burning stuff and 'stimulants'.
If you fail a test for a stimulant like MHA, you are in the same boat as the fella who's been guzzling steroids, i.e. you are now a 'doper'.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: longballin on June 01, 2017, 09:53:59 AM
Marc O'Se the cute Kerry whure and Dick GPA Clerkin flapping against Paul Kimmage on Matt Cooper show... worth a listen. https://www.todayfm.com/The-Last-Word-with-Matt-Cooper/Is-Doping-A-Problem-Within-The-GAA
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: magpie seanie on June 01, 2017, 10:30:48 AM
Quote from: longballin on June 01, 2017, 09:53:59 AM
Marc O'Se the cute Kerry whure and Dick GPA Clerkin flapping against Paul Kimmage on Matt Cooper show... worth a listen. https://www.todayfm.com/The-Last-Word-with-Matt-Cooper/Is-Doping-A-Problem-Within-The-GAA

I can't stand Kimmage, especially when he's right. The "spuds and cabbage" comment really shows how much he's loving this.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: longballin on June 01, 2017, 11:25:50 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 01, 2017, 10:30:48 AM
Quote from: longballin on June 01, 2017, 09:53:59 AM
Marc O'Se the cute Kerry whure and Dick GPA Clerkin flapping against Paul Kimmage on Matt Cooper show... worth a listen. https://www.todayfm.com/The-Last-Word-with-Matt-Cooper/Is-Doping-A-Problem-Within-The-GAA

I can't stand Kimmage, especially when he's right. The "spuds and cabbage" comment really shows how much he's loving this.

That's the problem, he calls out the truth and some people can't handle the truth.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: tonto1888 on June 01, 2017, 12:22:53 PM
Quote from: longballin on June 01, 2017, 11:25:50 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 01, 2017, 10:30:48 AM
Quote from: longballin on June 01, 2017, 09:53:59 AM
Marc O'Se the cute Kerry whure and Dick GPA Clerkin flapping against Paul Kimmage on Matt Cooper show... worth a listen. https://www.todayfm.com/The-Last-Word-with-Matt-Cooper/Is-Doping-A-Problem-Within-The-GAA

I can't stand Kimmage, especially when he's right. The "spuds and cabbage" comment really shows how much he's loving this.

That's the problem, he calls out the truth and some people can't handle the truth.

does he though? Does he not just shout drugs at everything and then sometimes it turns out to be the truth
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: yellowcard on June 01, 2017, 02:02:15 PM
Kimmage is a rare breed among journalists, brutally honest (sometimes crudely so) but he rarely ever betrays his principles or convictions. If he questions a performance there is normally good justification for it. Too many journalists rely on access to players, management and people within the sport they are reporting on, hence they dance to their tune and fail to see things objectively. Basically fans with typewriters as David Walsh ironically once called them. It's the exact same syndrome that Parkinson is suffering from at the moment. I'm not sure if he has a career outsdie of GAA but I'd say his job relies on player access for interviews, podcasts etc therefore he chooses not to bite the hand that feeds him. That is where Kimmage is unique, he has never sold out.     
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 02:14:19 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 01, 2017, 12:22:53 PM
Quote from: longballin on June 01, 2017, 11:25:50 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 01, 2017, 10:30:48 AM
Quote from: longballin on June 01, 2017, 09:53:59 AM
Marc O'Se the cute Kerry whure and Dick GPA Clerkin flapping against Paul Kimmage on Matt Cooper show... worth a listen. https://www.todayfm.com/The-Last-Word-with-Matt-Cooper/Is-Doping-A-Problem-Within-The-GAA

I can't stand Kimmage, especially when he's right. The "spuds and cabbage" comment really shows how much he's loving this.

That's the problem, he calls out the truth and some people can't handle the truth.

does he though? Does he not just shout drugs at everything and then sometimes it turns out to be the truth

You sound a bit defensive, Tonto.
Maybe YOU are on drugs?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: tonto1888 on June 01, 2017, 03:01:32 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 02:14:19 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 01, 2017, 12:22:53 PM
Quote from: longballin on June 01, 2017, 11:25:50 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 01, 2017, 10:30:48 AM
Quote from: longballin on June 01, 2017, 09:53:59 AM
Marc O'Se the cute Kerry whure and Dick GPA Clerkin flapping against Paul Kimmage on Matt Cooper show... worth a listen. https://www.todayfm.com/The-Last-Word-with-Matt-Cooper/Is-Doping-A-Problem-Within-The-GAA

I can't stand Kimmage, especially when he's right. The "spuds and cabbage" comment really shows how much he's loving this.

That's the problem, he calls out the truth and some people can't handle the truth.

does he though? Does he not just shout drugs at everything and then sometimes it turns out to be the truth

You sound a bit defensive, Tonto.
Maybe YOU are on drugs?

haha. I'm just asking?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: longballin on June 01, 2017, 04:29:39 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 01, 2017, 03:01:32 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 02:14:19 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 01, 2017, 12:22:53 PM
Quote from: longballin on June 01, 2017, 11:25:50 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 01, 2017, 10:30:48 AM
Quote from: longballin on June 01, 2017, 09:53:59 AM
Marc O'Se the cute Kerry whure and Dick GPA Clerkin flapping against Paul Kimmage on Matt Cooper show... worth a listen. https://www.todayfm.com/The-Last-Word-with-Matt-Cooper/Is-Doping-A-Problem-Within-The-GAA

I can't stand Kimmage, especially when he's right. The "spuds and cabbage" comment really shows how much he's loving this.

That's the problem, he calls out the truth and some people can't handle the truth.

does he though? Does he not just shout drugs at everything and then sometimes it turns out to be the truth

You sound a bit defensive, Tonto.
Maybe YOU are on drugs?

haha. I'm just asking?

Marc O'Se was yerra dreadful...
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 05:48:02 PM
Full decision here.
http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html (http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html)
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 05:48:02 PM
Full decision here.
http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html (http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html)

Seems like a couple of folk who doubted the fact that the sample was contaminated owe the lad an apology.

Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: macdanger2 on June 01, 2017, 07:13:19 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 05:48:02 PM
Full decision here.
http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html (http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html)

Seems like a couple of folk who doubted the fact that the sample was contaminated owe the lad an apology.

True. But he bought it, he took it and he's responsible for it.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on June 01, 2017, 07:17:00 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 05:48:02 PM
Full decision here.
http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html (http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html)

Seems like a couple of folk who doubted the fact that the sample was contaminated owe the lad an apology.

What?

He tested positive for a banned substance after a national final.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 08:14:33 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 01, 2017, 07:17:00 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 05:48:02 PM
Full decision here.
http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html (http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html)

Seems like a couple of folk who doubted the fact that the sample was contaminated owe the lad an apology.

What?

He tested positive for a banned substance after a national final.

Yes and the banned substance wasn't listed on the product he bought and there was nothing online to suggest that the product he used might contain the banned substance.

He was able to provide an unopened sample of the product that contained the banned substance.

He was careless in that he didn't run it by whoever Kerry have in charge of this, but chances are strong that even if he had they would have told him it was perfectly legitimate.

The way people are going on you would swear he didn't receive any punishment - he got 21 weeks, which when you compare it to some of punishments GAA players have gotten when they have deliberately injured players looks a touch harsh.

As for folk owing him an apology - from earlier in the thread.

QuoteIan O'Riordan ‏Verified account @ianoriordan 2h2 hours ago

1/2 Of all the amateur reactions to Brendan O'Sullivan's doping positive, and there are many, is the idea the supplement was 'contaminated'
0 replies 7 retweets 17 likes

2/2. no supplement is 'contaminated'; methylhexaneamine (MHA) was deliberately/purposely added. Name the product please @sportireland


Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: macdanger2 on June 01, 2017, 08:28:03 PM
I'm not disputing any of that but imo the gaa need to take a zero tolerance policy on any positive tests. I'm pretty sure almost every person who tests positive has an excuse of some sort, some of which are genuine and others which are not - it's difficult to tell which is which so I think there should be a much harsher penalty than 6 months regardless of mitigating circumstances.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on June 01, 2017, 09:29:21 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 08:14:33 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 01, 2017, 07:17:00 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 05:48:02 PM
Full decision here.
http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html (http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html)

Seems like a couple of folk who doubted the fact that the sample was contaminated owe the lad an apology.

What?

He tested positive for a banned substance after a national final.

Yes and the banned substance wasn't listed on the product he bought and there was nothing online to suggest that the product he used might contain the banned substance.

He was able to provide an unopened sample of the product that contained the banned substance.

He was careless in that he didn't run it by whoever Kerry have in charge of this, but chances are strong that even if he had they would have told him it was perfectly legitimate.

The way people are going on you would swear he didn't receive any punishment - he got 21 weeks, which when you compare it to some of punishments GAA players have gotten when they have deliberately injured players looks a touch harsh.

As for folk owing him an apology - from earlier in the thread.

QuoteIan O'Riordan ‏Verified account @ianoriordan 2h2 hours ago

1/2 Of all the amateur reactions to Brendan O'Sullivan's doping positive, and there are many, is the idea the supplement was 'contaminated'
0 replies 7 retweets 17 likes

2/2. no supplement is 'contaminated'; methylhexaneamine (MHA) was deliberately/purposely added. Name the product please @sportireland

Rory Kavanagh said the Donegal team were extremely well briefed on these issues, they had a list of supplements to use and they were to stick to those. He said they had round the clock access to a team doctor to run anything by in case they were ever in doubt.

Marc O'Se said that Kerry had pretty much the same access with regards what was ok and what wasn't.

At the very best, O'Sullivan is guilty of extreme recklessness, ignorance and naivety is no excuse and I don't for one second buy it. I wonder how many players who get caught will go down the same route - I wasn't aware - well tough shit, it's not on the allowed supplements list, he never bothered his hole to check it with the Kerry backroom team - tough shit.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: yellowcard on June 01, 2017, 10:05:38 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 05:48:02 PM
Full decision here.
http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html (http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html)

Seems like a couple of folk who doubted the fact that the sample was contaminated owe the lad an apology.

I'd like to think you are joking. At the very best he has gone on a solo run and taken a product which he actively sought out himself because the caffeine supplement prescribed by the team doctor wasn't adequate. The product he purchased co-incidentally happened to be a fat burner and some research into the product will show how he could easily have been seduced by its contents and effects.

There has to be some responsibility placed on the athlete in checking what goes into their body. The medical support staff were available if he had asked them.


Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 10:13:14 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 01, 2017, 10:05:38 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 05:48:02 PM
Full decision here.
http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html (http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html)

Seems like a couple of folk who doubted the fact that the sample was contaminated owe the lad an apology.

I'd like to think you are joking. At the very best he has gone on a solo run and taken a product which he actively sought out himself because the caffeine supplement prescribed by the team doctor wasn't adequate. The product he purchased co-incidentally happened to be a fat burner and some research into the product will show how he could easily have been seduced by its contents and effects.

There has to be some responsibility placed on the athlete in checking what goes into their body. The medical support staff were available if he had asked them.

The fact is that he did check the product's ingredients to see if any were on the prohibited substances list and none of them were.
He was able to provide evidence of these searches to Sport Ireland.
Chances are high that if he had asked the medical support staff they would have told him there was nothing in the product he used that was prohibited.

It's one thing to say the product was contaminated if there's no product to be tested as an excuse, it's a bit of a different story when he says the products must be contaminated, is able to provide unused samples for testing and the samples provided test positive for the substance in question.


Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: yellowcard on June 01, 2017, 10:18:27 PM
On the form he filled in at doping controls he listed 8 different supplements and 1 medication he took in the 2 weeks before the final. Augmentin, whey protein, pharmaton, pre-fuel, caffeine tablets, caffeine gel, vitamin C, Krill oil and magnesium. These are meant to be amateur athletes but I'd say there are professional athletes who aren't taking supplements in these quantities. No wonder the top resourced counties are getting further away from those with small budgets.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: yellowcard on June 01, 2017, 10:20:55 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 10:13:14 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 01, 2017, 10:05:38 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 05:48:02 PM
Full decision here.
http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html (http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html)

Seems like a couple of folk who doubted the fact that the sample was contaminated owe the lad an apology.

I'd like to think you are joking. At the very best he has gone on a solo run and taken a product which he actively sought out himself because the caffeine supplement prescribed by the team doctor wasn't adequate. The product he purchased co-incidentally happened to be a fat burner and some research into the product will show how he could easily have been seduced by its contents and effects.

There has to be some responsibility placed on the athlete in checking what goes into their body. The medical support staff were available if he had asked them.

The fact is that he did check the product's ingredients to see if any were on the prohibited substances list and none of them were.
He was able to provide evidence of these searches to Sport Ireland.
Chances are high that if he had asked the medical support staff they would have told him there was nothing in the product he used that was prohibited.

It's one thing to say the product was contaminated if there's no product to be tested as an excuse, it's a bit of a different story when he says the products must be contaminated, is able to provide unused samples for testing and the samples provided test positive for the substance in question.

The fact is that ignorance is not an excuse. If this had been an athlete or cyclist they would be looking at a possible 2 year ban and left with no support network around them. He is lucky he is a GAA player with plenty of people batting his corner.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: mcklatchee on June 01, 2017, 10:33:04 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 01, 2017, 10:18:27 PM
On the form he filled in at doping controls he listed 8 different supplements and 1 medication he took in the 2 weeks before the final. Augmentin, whey protein, pharmaton, pre-fuel, caffeine tablets, caffeine gel, vitamin C, Krill oil and magnesium. These are meant to be amateur athletes but I'd say there are professional athletes who aren't taking supplements in these quantities. No wonder the top resourced counties are getting further away from those with small budgets.

That list alone confirms that the whole area needs regulated (which it notionally is) and policed (which it manifestly is not). Failure to implement a comprehensive testing regime with penalties for missed and failed tests in line with internationally accepted anti-doping standards is failing the game
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: sid waddell on June 01, 2017, 11:02:26 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 01, 2017, 09:29:21 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 08:14:33 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 01, 2017, 07:17:00 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 05:48:02 PM
Full decision here.
http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html (http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html)

Seems like a couple of folk who doubted the fact that the sample was contaminated owe the lad an apology.

What?

He tested positive for a banned substance after a national final.

Yes and the banned substance wasn't listed on the product he bought and there was nothing online to suggest that the product he used might contain the banned substance.

He was able to provide an unopened sample of the product that contained the banned substance.

He was careless in that he didn't run it by whoever Kerry have in charge of this, but chances are strong that even if he had they would have told him it was perfectly legitimate.

The way people are going on you would swear he didn't receive any punishment - he got 21 weeks, which when you compare it to some of punishments GAA players have gotten when they have deliberately injured players looks a touch harsh.

As for folk owing him an apology - from earlier in the thread.

QuoteIan O'Riordan ‏Verified account @ianoriordan 2h2 hours ago

1/2 Of all the amateur reactions to Brendan O'Sullivan's doping positive, and there are many, is the idea the supplement was 'contaminated'
0 replies 7 retweets 17 likes

2/2. no supplement is 'contaminated'; methylhexaneamine (MHA) was deliberately/purposely added. Name the product please @sportireland

Rory Kavanagh said the Donegal team were extremely well briefed on these issues, they had a list of supplements to use and they were to stick to those. He said they had round the clock access to a team doctor to run anything by in case they were ever in doubt.

Marc O'Se said that Kerry had pretty much the same access with regards what was ok and what wasn't.

At the very best, O'Sullivan is guilty of extreme recklessness, ignorance and naivety is no excuse and I don't for one second buy it. I wonder how many players who get caught will go down the same route - I wasn't aware - well tough shit, it's not on the allowed supplements list, he never bothered his hole to check it with the Kerry backroom team - tough shit.
The whole thing is absolute bollocks - he should have had the book thrown at him and got a 2 year ban minimum.

All the plamasing shit from former Kerry players about "ah shure he's a great lad and I know he wouldn't have done anything intentionally" is just that - shit.

It's no different from Danny Healy Rae saying drink driving should be allowed because "ah shure the lads here are fiersh careful".

GAA people have their heads buried in the sand on the issue of doping issue and the near-doping issue.

To listen to some people you'd swear all GAA players ate was spuds, steak, bread and milk.

The top team in the country were ten minutes late onto the pitch for an All-Ireland final because some of their players got a dose of the shits after they overdosed on caffeine gels, for FFS.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on June 02, 2017, 09:22:15 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 01, 2017, 10:18:27 PM
On the form he filled in at doping controls he listed 8 different supplements and 1 medication he took in the 2 weeks before the final. Augmentin, whey protein, pharmaton, pre-fuel, caffeine tablets, caffeine gel, vitamin C, Krill oil and magnesium. These are meant to be amateur athletes but I'd say there are professional athletes who aren't taking supplements in these quantities. No wonder the top resourced counties are getting further away from those with small budgets.

I know people who aren't even athletes who would be taking some or all of these.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: heffo on June 02, 2017, 09:25:07 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 02, 2017, 09:22:15 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 01, 2017, 10:18:27 PM
On the form he filled in at doping controls he listed 8 different supplements and 1 medication he took in the 2 weeks before the final. Augmentin, whey protein, pharmaton, pre-fuel, caffeine tablets, caffeine gel, vitamin C, Krill oil and magnesium. These are meant to be amateur athletes but I'd say there are professional athletes who aren't taking supplements in these quantities. No wonder the top resourced counties are getting further away from those with small budgets.

I know people who aren't even athletes who would be taking some or all of these.

I was doing a spinning class at lunchtime the other day and the fella beside me had take a pre-workout supplment, was drinking amino energy during it and had a Whey protein shake right after it.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on June 02, 2017, 09:44:02 AM
I take cod liver oil, glucosamine and vitamin D and I'm not even playing football anymore.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 02, 2017, 09:51:02 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 02, 2017, 09:44:02 AM
I take cod liver oil, glucosamine and vitamin D and I'm not even playing football anymore.

Do they make a difference or are you relying on a placebo effect?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: westbound on June 02, 2017, 10:28:59 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 01, 2017, 10:20:55 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 10:13:14 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 01, 2017, 10:05:38 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 05:48:02 PM
Full decision here.
http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html (http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html)

Seems like a couple of folk who doubted the fact that the sample was contaminated owe the lad an apology.

I'd like to think you are joking. At the very best he has gone on a solo run and taken a product which he actively sought out himself because the caffeine supplement prescribed by the team doctor wasn't adequate. The product he purchased co-incidentally happened to be a fat burner and some research into the product will show how he could easily have been seduced by its contents and effects.

There has to be some responsibility placed on the athlete in checking what goes into their body. The medical support staff were available if he had asked them.

The fact is that he did check the product's ingredients to see if any were on the prohibited substances list and none of them were.
He was able to provide evidence of these searches to Sport Ireland.
Chances are high that if he had asked the medical support staff they would have told him there was nothing in the product he used that was prohibited.

It's one thing to say the product was contaminated if there's no product to be tested as an excuse, it's a bit of a different story when he says the products must be contaminated, is able to provide unused samples for testing and the samples provided test positive for the substance in question.

The fact is that ignorance is not an excuse. If this had been an athlete or cyclist they would be looking at a possible 2 year ban and left with no support network around them. He is lucky he is a GAA player with plenty of people batting his corner.

But surely the sport ireland statement has confirmed that this is NOT a case of ignorance being an excuse?
This guy checked the product, did his research and confirmed that no banned substances were listed as being in the product.
I agree he should also have ran it by the team doctor or whoever but unless they actually tested the product would they have come to any other conclusion?
The fact that a banned substance was contained in the product was near impossible to establish without actually testing the product.

Having said all that, every player is responsible for everything that goes into their own bodies so there is no doubt that he should receive a punishment for having a positive test.
He has received (and served) a 21 week ban for this.

I think some people judgement is being clouded on this by the fact that it is only becoming public knowledge AFTER the ban has already been served!


Is 2 years the maximum punishment for any doping offence?
Would people agree that there should be different punishments for different levels of drug taking? i.e. the lance armstrong type doping Vs some fella taking a lempsip!
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: AZOffaly on June 02, 2017, 10:30:48 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 02, 2017, 09:44:02 AM
I take cod liver oil, glucosamine and vitamin D and I'm not even playing football anymore.

I eat Weetabix. Does that count?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: westbound on June 02, 2017, 10:32:44 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 02, 2017, 10:30:48 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 02, 2017, 09:44:02 AM
I take cod liver oil, glucosamine and vitamin D and I'm not even playing football anymore.

I eat Weetabix. Does that count?

Not unless you put honey on top!!!!!  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: armaghniac on June 02, 2017, 10:38:17 AM
Quote from: westbound on June 02, 2017, 10:32:44 AM
Not unless you put honey on top!!!!!  ;) ;)

That would be before breakfast.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: macdanger2 on June 02, 2017, 10:49:11 AM
Quote from: westbound on June 02, 2017, 10:28:59 AM

Is 2 years the maximum punishment for any doping offence?
Would people agree that there should be different punishments for different levels of drug taking? i.e. the lance armstrong type doping Vs some fella taking a lempsip!

I'd be in favour of very harsh punishments for this - lifetime ban at the top (Lance) end of the scale and a minimum of ~4 years. That might seem excessive but for someone considering doping, they're going to consider 1) risk of getting caught which we know is minuscule and 2) consequences of being caught - this is something the GAA have direct control over so harsh penalties would serve as somewhat of a deterrent.

One or two players may end up being banned in "unfair" circumstances but the overall integrity of the games are at stake here so imo that would be acceptable collateral damage. To minimise this, the GAA could provide a list of approved suppliers for different supplements and if there was a problem with one of these, there'd be a get out clause; if anyone takes something outside that, then tough luck.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: westbound on June 02, 2017, 11:09:44 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 02, 2017, 10:49:11 AM
Quote from: westbound on June 02, 2017, 10:28:59 AM

Is 2 years the maximum punishment for any doping offence?
Would people agree that there should be different punishments for different levels of drug taking? i.e. the lance armstrong type doping Vs some fella taking a lempsip!

I'd be in favour of very harsh punishments for this - lifetime ban at the top (Lance) end of the scale and a minimum of ~4 years. That might seem excessive but for someone considering doping, they're going to consider 1) risk of getting caught which we know is minuscule and 2) consequences of being caught - this is something the GAA have direct control over so harsh penalties would serve as somewhat of a deterrent.

One or two players may end up being banned in "unfair" circumstances but the overall integrity of the games are at stake here so imo that would be acceptable collateral damage. To minimise this, the GAA could provide a list of approved suppliers for different supplements and if there was a problem with one of these, there'd be a get out clause; if anyone takes something outside that, then tough luck.
I'd be in favour of a sliding scale of punishments myself with lifetime ban for second offence.

However, your suggestion of a list of approved suppliers is a good one in principal.
Although, I wonder with the massive number of potential suppliers is it practical?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: DJGaliv on June 02, 2017, 11:51:37 AM
It's funny that after the clarification statement came out, both sides in this debate feel that they are even more right!

I can see it from both sides.

To the one who thinks he's owed an apology you feel he's unlucky, as if there was nothing he could do.
Every athlete knows that if you buy a supplement you run the very real risk of a contamination and a failed drug test. You will have been warned by dieticians/nutritionists/doctors/physios.
The idea that he ran through the ingredient of the fat burner to make sure it was legal but didn't consult the sports ireland anti-doping website is laughable.


From the sport ireland recommendations on sports supplement e.g. advice that any athlete from any two bit amateur athlete will have weighed up before deciding to purchase Oxyburn Pro Superthermotech fat burning supplements.


Sport Ireland recommends against the use of sports supplements for the following reasons:

We believe that a correct dietary and nutritional regime will provide all the potential benefits of sports supplements.
We believe that, given the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) principle of strict liability, elite athletes are opening up the possibility of inadvertent positive tests by taking supplements.

There are no guarantees that any dietary supplements are safe. Before taking any dietary supplements please assess the following

The Need: seek nutrition advice from a professional sports dietician - he didn't do
The Risk: If you choose to take a supplement you should assess the associated risks and make an informed decision. Please see risk minimisation guidelines below - he did his best here in fairness
The Consequences: consuming a contaminated product may may result in a 4 year ban from sport - has to deal with them unfortunately.

Have a read of this http://www.nutraingredients.com/Markets-and-Trends/The-decline-of-sports-supplement-contamination

I honestly feel that lads talking about lemsip - clueless, or that sure jaysus it was contaminated, or he was unlucky are being hugely naive. Every athlete knows the risks and everyone has heard all the excuses.

In drug testing it should be pass or fail. Morally yeah we can have huge sympathy for O'Sullivan, but in sport we have to close the door on lads not just blatantly doping, but being negligent and not taking responsibility for what you put in your own body.
There will be lads like O'Sullivan who can consider themselves unlucky.
However, by banning him for 1 year, that will make the next guy who thinks he needs fat burning supplements even though he wasn't advised to stop and think again.

My main point is yes fat burning supplements in this case aren't illegal, but you take the very real and common risk of contamination if you do purchase this. Every athlete knows this, and will have been advised this by dieticians/nutritionists etc.

As an athlete you have to take luck or being unlucky out of it. It can't be an excuse, however understandable it might be. What he did was wreckless, and that runs the risk of a positive test.

Remember this is a lad training six times a week, and looking for any help they can get. I feel sorry for O'Sullivan, probably a lot of pressure on him to get his body fat down. Maybe these guys are being pushed too much in this regard by S & C, management etc. If a lad training six times a week, and eating well still feels he needs to get fat burning supplements as well to hit unrealistic targets then where are we going?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on June 02, 2017, 12:10:13 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 02, 2017, 10:30:48 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 02, 2017, 09:44:02 AM
I take cod liver oil, glucosamine and vitamin D and I'm not even playing football anymore.

I eat Weetabix. Does that count?

Depends.
How many in one go?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: DJGaliv on June 02, 2017, 12:13:14 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 02, 2017, 09:22:15 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 01, 2017, 10:18:27 PM
On the form he filled in at doping controls he listed 8 different supplements and 1 medication he took in the 2 weeks before the final. Augmentin, whey protein, pharmaton, pre-fuel, caffeine tablets, caffeine gel, vitamin C, Krill oil and magnesium. These are meant to be amateur athletes but I'd say there are professional athletes who aren't taking supplements in these quantities. No wonder the top resourced counties are getting further away from those with small budgets.

I know people who aren't even athletes who would be taking some or all of these.

All those supplements he is taking is fair enough and would have more than likely been advised by the dietician. Was this fat burning supplement not mentioned in his doping control test?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: gallsman on June 02, 2017, 12:19:32 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 05:48:02 PM
Full decision here.
http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html (http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html)

Seems like a couple of folk who doubted the fact that the sample was contaminated owe the lad an apology.

Fair enough -genuinely surprising I have to say.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on June 02, 2017, 12:20:07 PM
Quote from: DJGaliv on June 02, 2017, 12:13:14 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 02, 2017, 09:22:15 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 01, 2017, 10:18:27 PM
On the form he filled in at doping controls he listed 8 different supplements and 1 medication he took in the 2 weeks before the final. Augmentin, whey protein, pharmaton, pre-fuel, caffeine tablets, caffeine gel, vitamin C, Krill oil and magnesium. These are meant to be amateur athletes but I'd say there are professional athletes who aren't taking supplements in these quantities. No wonder the top resourced counties are getting further away from those with small budgets.

I know people who aren't even athletes who would be taking some or all of these.

All those supplements he is taking is fair enough and would have more than likely been advised by the dietician. Was this fat burning supplement not mentioned in his doping control test?

Yep.
'Caffeine tablets'.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: seafoid on June 02, 2017, 12:24:25 PM
You would wonder if the Tipp full back line were on some thing dodgy.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: gallsman on June 02, 2017, 12:26:45 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 02, 2017, 12:20:07 PM
Quote from: DJGaliv on June 02, 2017, 12:13:14 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 02, 2017, 09:22:15 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 01, 2017, 10:18:27 PM
On the form he filled in at doping controls he listed 8 different supplements and 1 medication he took in the 2 weeks before the final. Augmentin, whey protein, pharmaton, pre-fuel, caffeine tablets, caffeine gel, vitamin C, Krill oil and magnesium. These are meant to be amateur athletes but I'd say there are professional athletes who aren't taking supplements in these quantities. No wonder the top resourced counties are getting further away from those with small budgets.

I know people who aren't even athletes who would be taking some or all of these.

All those supplements he is taking is fair enough and would have more than likely been advised by the dietician. Was this fat burning supplement not mentioned in his doping control test?

Yep.
'Caffeine tablets'.

That's the other bit - I'm happy to be pleasantly surprised that the supplement was actually contaminated rather than just something he bought and used the contaminated supplement excuse.

However, these are clearly fat burning pills (I've used similar before from myprotein), not caffeine supplements. So if that's what he put down on his list, he evidently had a worry about the stuff.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: DJGaliv on June 02, 2017, 12:42:35 PM

Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 05:48:02 PM
Full decision here.
http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html (http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html)

Seems like a couple of folk who doubted the fact that the sample was contaminated owe the lad an apology.

That's the big stumbling block here. In Irish amateur sporting circles - cycling, running, triathlon, badminton, tennis - contaminated supplements is not an excuse. You're unlucky but you put yourself in that position to be unlucky that majority of athletes don't.

That's the risk you take when you buy without advice.
Advice isn't as simple as reading the back of the packet. There are specific companies with better records than others, there are companies that batch test their product. And also sports dieticians would have looked at his body fat scores and thought they could be achieved over time in safer ways.
Any sports dietician worth their salt would have told him the risk of contamination and it wasn't one worth taking.

I do feel really sorry for Brendan O'Sullivan, but I think all these people arguing for him, or seeking apologies or asking to let him away with just a slap on the wrist, do more damage to him.
I know there's huge uproar in other Irish sports as to the way this is being spoken about. If it was let be, yeah he was silly and here's his punishment which he is accepting of then it would pass over. However listening to this as if he is the first guy ever to be done for a contaminated supplement and should be treated differently is extremely naive.


Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: gallsman on June 02, 2017, 12:47:01 PM
Have just listened to the Last Word. Clerkin was doing ok until he started shiteing on about how there needs to be financial incentive to dope and subsequently that whatever incentives are available to lads in the GAA aren't even worth talking about. You only have to look at all the lads picking up a new Audi A4 every six months off the back of their "brand ambassadorships" to see there's plenty of money involved.

One of the things that pisses me off the most about this (and Quirke was the worst for it) was that nobody in the GAA would have any reason to dope over, say, your "average" Olympic athlete. There appears to be a complete refusal to acknowledge, particularly​ at the very top level, that footballers and hurlers are sporting royalty in this country - much more so than someone like Rob Heffernan, Derval O'Rourke or even Sonia, never mind a canoeist, hockey player etc.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Beffs on June 02, 2017, 01:30:06 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 02, 2017, 12:47:01 PM
Have just listened to the Last Word. Clerkin was doing ok until he started shiteing on about how there needs to be financial incentive to dope and subsequently that whatever incentives are available to lads in the GAA aren't even worth talking about. You only have to look at all the lads picking up a new Audi A4 every six months off the back of their "brand ambassadorships" to see there's plenty of money involved.

One of the things that pisses me off the most about this (and Quirke was the worst for it) was that nobody in the GAA would have any reason to dope over, say, your "average" Olympic athlete. There appears to be a complete refusal to acknowledge, particularly​ at the very top level, that footballers and hurlers are sporting royalty in this country - much more so than someone like Rob Heffernan, Derval O'Rourke or even Sonia, never mind a canoeist, hockey player etc.

Agreed. And the freebie Audi's are only the tip of the iceberg. There are other far more intangible things at play here. It is not all about money. To a Kerryman, having a Celtic cross in the arse pocket is of far, far more importance than Red Bull or Audi or Adidas throwing you a few bob during your few years at the top of the inter county food chain. To say that no one is going to dope, unless there is massive amounts of money involved, is incredibly naive at best, and stupid at worse.

Being a GAA star in Ireland is huge deal. Winning an All Ireland is a big deal, in ways that have nothing to do with money. Players have pride and personal ambitions. They aren't robots. They want to succeed as GAA athletes for themselves, for that sense of accomplishment that comes with winning Liam/Sam, but also for the validation and pride that comes from their own families and clubs and parishes when they win a trophy. You can't put a price tag on any of that. If a lad decides to step over a line, to get all that, the finanical perks that may follow along afterwards, may be very far down the pecking order in their original decision making. It is daft to think otherwise.

Am not picking on Kerry. They just happen to be the county in the cross hairs right now. You can say that about any county in the country really. Good luck getting former players (like Quirke) to admit any of this. They want people to think they are all pure as the driven snow, who play their sport because they are all paragons of manly virtue. They aren't. They are human beings, just like the rest of us, with flaws, just like the rest of us. I also expect few journos (like Malachy Clerkin) to be unsympathetic to their current plight. He has a job to do. Any GAA journo that earns himself a reputation as a doping crusader, will soon find inter county doors closed to him and, players not returning his phone calls.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 02, 2017, 01:56:43 PM
Why is all thes lads taking so many supplements anyway! Who recommending them! Played fball 15 yrs never once took anything outside of an inhaler; odd red bull maybe!!
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: gallsman on June 02, 2017, 02:32:11 PM
Quote from: Beffs on June 02, 2017, 01:30:06 PM
They are human beings, just like the rest of us, with flaws, just like the rest of us. I also expect few journos (like Malachy Clerkin) to be unsympathetic to their current plight. He has a job to do. Any GAA journo that earns himself a reputation as a doping crusader, will soon find inter county doors closed to him and, players not returning his phone calls.

This is where you'll see the distinction between real journalists and "new" media with bolloxes like Parkinson who are simply lads who used to be on the inside of things.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Beffs on June 02, 2017, 02:53:06 PM
Unfortunately, "real" journalists are prone to the same "know where your bread is buttered" career realities, just as much as the clickbait loving "new" media are. Maybe even more so. They build relationships over time and do long sit down interviews, such as the recent one with Colm Cooper and Vincent Hogan in the Sindo.

To the new meeja, you make a funny two minute You Tube video, or you have a player do a quirky Q&A session, you throw it up on Twitter account and it's bobs your uncle. As the bulk of your target market are on their smartphones and spend an average of 24.8 seconds on each clickbait item you put up, that is all you need to hit your adverising target. Job done !
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on June 02, 2017, 02:58:35 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 02, 2017, 01:56:43 PM
Why is all thes lads taking so many supplements anyway! Who recommending them! Played fball 15 yrs never once took anything outside of an inhaler; odd red bull maybe!!

As Sir Dave would doubtless say....marginal gains.

(https://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1388393/sir-dave-brailsford.jpg?w=400)

Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 02, 2017, 03:09:36 PM
If hes training 6 times a week for a non paying sport i doubt he may find something else to do!  Either pay the players; or go bck to the proper ethos of the gaa! I withdrawn from the sports council grants! How much does a sub get anyway for this harassement whether he guilty or innocent! The man who started this thread probably one of those who turned a blind eye to one of their players been involved  in dog fighting  in the past
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on June 02, 2017, 03:09:59 PM
We didn't need any new-fangled supplements back in the 80's & 90's.
Just good old-fashioned 'Uncle Sean's patented revitalising tonic'.
100% natural.

Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on June 02, 2017, 03:11:50 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 02, 2017, 03:09:36 PM
If hes training 6 times a week for a non paying sport i doubt he may find something else to do!  Either pay the players; or go bck to the proper ethos of the gaa! I withdrawn from the sports council grants! How much does a sub get anyway for this harassement whether he guilty or innocent! The man who started this thread probably one of those who turned a blind eye to one of their players been involved  in dog fighting  in the past

(http://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/The+ponypost+spam+the+hater+s+rage+the+massive+incoming+_f55fc4df7ac53ae9f90a33bd7205f930.jpg)
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: orangeman on June 02, 2017, 03:25:48 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 02, 2017, 01:56:43 PM
Why is all thes lads taking so many supplements anyway! Who recommending them! Played fball 15 yrs never once took anything outside of an inhaler; odd red bull maybe!!

And an Embassy Regal at half time.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on June 02, 2017, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: westbound on June 02, 2017, 10:28:59 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 01, 2017, 10:20:55 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 10:13:14 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 01, 2017, 10:05:38 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 01, 2017, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 01, 2017, 05:48:02 PM
Full decision here.
http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html (http://www.sportireland.ie/Media/Latest_News/Sport%20Ireland%20and%20GAA%20Confirm%20Anti-Doping%20Rule%20Violation.html)

Seems like a couple of folk who doubted the fact that the sample was contaminated owe the lad an apology.

I'd like to think you are joking. At the very best he has gone on a solo run and taken a product which he actively sought out himself because the caffeine supplement prescribed by the team doctor wasn't adequate. The product he purchased co-incidentally happened to be a fat burner and some research into the product will show how he could easily have been seduced by its contents and effects.

There has to be some responsibility placed on the athlete in checking what goes into their body. The medical support staff were available if he had asked them.

The fact is that he did check the product's ingredients to see if any were on the prohibited substances list and none of them were.
He was able to provide evidence of these searches to Sport Ireland.
Chances are high that if he had asked the medical support staff they would have told him there was nothing in the product he used that was prohibited.

It's one thing to say the product was contaminated if there's no product to be tested as an excuse, it's a bit of a different story when he says the products must be contaminated, is able to provide unused samples for testing and the samples provided test positive for the substance in question.

The fact is that ignorance is not an excuse. If this had been an athlete or cyclist they would be looking at a possible 2 year ban and left with no support network around them. He is lucky he is a GAA player with plenty of people batting his corner.

But surely the sport ireland statement has confirmed that this is NOT a case of ignorance being an excuse?
This guy checked the product, did his research and confirmed that no banned substances were listed as being in the product.
I agree he should also have ran it by the team doctor or whoever but unless they actually tested the product would they have come to any other conclusion?
The fact that a banned substance was contained in the product was near impossible to establish without actually testing the product.

Having said all that, every player is responsible for everything that goes into their own bodies so there is no doubt that he should receive a punishment for having a positive test.
He has received (and served) a 21 week ban for this.

I think some people judgement is being clouded on this by the fact that it is only becoming public knowledge AFTER the ban has already been served!


Is 2 years the maximum punishment for any doping offence?
Would people agree that there should be different punishments for different levels of drug taking? i.e. the lance armstrong type doping Vs some fella taking a lempsip!

He didn't bother to run it by the Kerry medical side, he didn't bother to check it was on the allowed supplement list and make further checks with qualified people.

The whole ignorance and playing dumb story is not in any way plausible or excusable. At the very best he took a chance by breaking the rules and procedures and at the worst he knew full well what he was at. He's got off very, very lightly.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on June 02, 2017, 04:16:25 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 02, 2017, 03:09:36 PM
If hes training 6 times a week for a non paying sport i doubt he may find something else to do!  Either pay the players; or go bck to the proper ethos of the gaa! I withdrawn from the sports council grants! How much does a sub get anyway for this harassement whether he guilty or innocent! The man who started this thread probably one of those who turned a blind eye to one of their players been involved  in dog fighting  in the past

I fail to see the correlation between dog fighting and doping in GAA.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: longballin on June 02, 2017, 11:19:10 PM
Kimmage is on the war path anyway.... tweet a few hours ago: Paul Kimmage‏ @PaulKimmage  2h2 hours ago
More
To all my GAA friends: Wake up and smell the caffeine. Because once the Genie is out of the bottle there's no putting it back.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 03, 2017, 02:30:58 PM
He aint got ant gaa friends!!@
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: bennydorano on June 03, 2017, 03:02:01 PM
Kimmage is a Dubs man, followed him long enough on Twitter to know he's a genuine love of the game & Dublin.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on June 03, 2017, 05:20:02 PM
Kimmage isn't anti-gaa.
He's anti-doping.
I actually think he's approaching this issue in the context of saving the GAA before PEDs take hold in any significant way.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: bennydorano on June 08, 2017, 07:31:56 AM
John McEntee gives the subject both barrels in today's Irish News.  Subtle as a sledgehammer!
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: mayoaremagic on June 08, 2017, 12:28:50 PM
Kerry hit back again. Eamon Fitz trying to create a siege mentality??

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/kerry-hit-back-in-war-of-words-with-anti-doping-chief-792633.html

http://www.the42.ie/kerry-brendan-osullivan-una-may-3431098-Jun2017/
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: yellowcard on June 08, 2017, 12:47:16 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 08, 2017, 07:31:56 AM
John McEntee gives the subject both barrels in today's Irish News.  Subtle as a sledgehammer!

One of the few to actually broach the subject. It's almost as if it is a no go area with most GAA pundits who normally have an opinion on anything and everything. I could be wrong but I don't even think it got a mention on The Sunday Game other than for Tomas O'Se to say that he was a lovely fella. It's a bigger issue than just Brendan O'Sullivan, it has wider consequences for the sport and the safety of some of these products. The GAA/GPA have been very silent on the matter also. 
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: tonto1888 on June 08, 2017, 04:42:43 PM
Quote from: mayoaremagic on June 08, 2017, 12:28:50 PM
Kerry hit back again. Eamon Fitz trying to create a siege mentality??

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/kerry-hit-back-in-war-of-words-with-anti-doping-chief-792633.html

http://www.the42.ie/kerry-brendan-osullivan-una-may-3431098-Jun2017/

Pretty easy for Kerry to prove this is the case
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: macdanger2 on June 08, 2017, 11:33:40 PM
Was listening to some of the coverage on OTB podcast earlier and they made two points that I thought were interesting - firstly, while MHA isn't listed as an ingredient, if you do a search for the supplement, the first result doesn't list MHA as an ingredient but the 2nd, 3rd& 4th results do. Secondly, they were talking about how ludicrous it is that someone is given a supplement by the Kerry medical team, doesn't like the taste so instead of going back to the medical team, he decides to take advice from a gym buddy and buy something off his own bat.....gross stupidity at best
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: bennydorano on July 31, 2017, 11:48:03 AM
http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-doping-probe-launched-as-two-samples-vanish-on-way-to-laboratory-35983032.html

What's going on in Westmeath
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: manfromdelmonte on July 31, 2017, 11:53:53 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 31, 2017, 11:48:03 AM
http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-doping-probe-launched-as-two-samples-vanish-on-way-to-laboratory-35983032.html

What's going on in Westmeath
is the courier company based in Westmeath?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: rosnarun on July 31, 2017, 02:29:19 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on July 31, 2017, 11:53:53 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 31, 2017, 11:48:03 AM
http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-doping-probe-launched-as-two-samples-vanish-on-way-to-laboratory-35983032.html

What's going on in Westmeath
surely its to the repondsility of the sport ireland/wada  tester to ensure the sample gets to the clinic
i dont see a role for westmeath or the GAA here . is this a case of a very misleading ant GAA headline or am i missing something?
is the courier company based in Westmeath?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Ball Hopper on July 31, 2017, 02:51:37 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 31, 2017, 11:48:03 AM
http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-doping-probe-launched-as-two-samples-vanish-on-way-to-laboratory-35983032.html

What's going on in Westmeath

One would imagine that two samples are collected, A and B.  Surely to God nobody would ship both samples together?  If sample A goes missing, split sample B, under controlled conditions, and resubmit. 

Not that hard.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jayop on July 31, 2017, 05:16:54 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 31, 2017, 11:48:03 AM
http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-doping-probe-launched-as-two-samples-vanish-on-way-to-laboratory-35983032.html

What's going on in Westmeath

Misleading dramatic headline as standard for the Indo. The responsibility for the samples has nothing to do with Westmeath once they have been provided. The GAA and the players have done nothing wrong here but that wouldn't get as many clicks.

had you asked about the other counties who had moved training and not alerted SI then that would have been a better story.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Jinxy on March 09, 2018, 09:19:38 AM
Food supplements used to gain muscle recalled due to 'serious health risk'
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/food-supplements-used-to-gain-muscle-recalled-due-to-serious-health-risk-36684122.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/food-supplements-used-to-gain-muscle-recalled-due-to-serious-health-risk-36684122.html)
It was one of these Brendan O'Sullivan was taking.

'A brand of food supplement used to gain muscle or burn fat, made by Falcon Labs, has been recalled due to the serious risk posed to health.

The Food Safety Authority of Ireland (FSAI) said the recall of the brand of supplements, sold in gyms, was ordered after tests found the supplements contained illegal steroids and stimulants that pose a serious health risk to consumers.

Also the location of the production site cannot be determined and traceability of the products is unknown, the watchdog said.

"The FSAI is advising consumers not to purchase or consume any Falcon Labs products as they are unfit for human consumption," the report reads.

It is also instructing distributors, retailers and online sellers to remove these products from sale.'
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Angelo on April 25, 2020, 10:15:21 PM
Any word on which player failed the drugs test and which county they are from?

Surely a third strike for Kerry would open to some huge questions.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: oliverkelly on April 26, 2020, 12:38:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 25, 2020, 10:15:21 PM
Any word on which player failed the drugs test and which county they are from?
Heard it was a player from an Ulster county in Divison 1
Surely a third strike for Kerry would open to some huge questions.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Angelo on April 26, 2020, 01:28:49 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on April 26, 2020, 12:38:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 25, 2020, 10:15:21 PM
Any word on which player failed the drugs test and which county they are from?
Heard it was a player from an Ulster county in Divison 1
Surely a third strike for Kerry would open to some huge questions.

Which county?

It said the player was in their 30s.

Think Colm Cavanagh and McCrory are the only players on the Tyrone panel in their 30s. Don't think McCrory has played during the league yet.
For Donegal you'd have McGee and Murphy who have played this year.
Monaghan you'd have Darren Hughes, McManus and maybe Drew Wylie?

Good of you to narrow it down to around 5 players.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: oliverkelly on April 26, 2020, 01:51:43 PM
That's all I know. I didn't actually hear which player it was but was informed it was an Ulster based player that came from a sports journalist.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Angelo on April 26, 2020, 05:16:19 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on April 26, 2020, 01:51:43 PM
That's all I know. I didn't actually hear which player it was but was informed it was an Ulster based player that came from a sports journalist.

From a Div 1 county?

That would mean it's a Donegal, Monaghan or Tyrone payer according to your source.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: The Trap on April 27, 2020, 12:12:57 AM
And in his 30s
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 09:21:11 AM
Failing a test doesn't necessarily mean tested positive for something that enhances sporting performance. It could have been recreational.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: ck on April 27, 2020, 09:43:58 AM
Quote from: oliverkelly on April 26, 2020, 01:51:43 PM
That's all I know. I didn't actually hear which player it was but was informed it was an Ulster based player that came from a sports journalist.

Which sports journo said this?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 27, 2020, 12:21:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2020, 05:16:19 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on April 26, 2020, 01:51:43 PM
That's all I know. I didn't actually hear which player it was but was informed it was an Ulster based player that came from a sports journalist.

From a Div 1 county?

That would mean it's a Donegal, Monaghan or Tyrone payer according to your source.

Lower league player according to the examiner today.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Angelo on April 27, 2020, 12:51:11 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 27, 2020, 12:21:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2020, 05:16:19 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on April 26, 2020, 01:51:43 PM
That's all I know. I didn't actually hear which player it was but was informed it was an Ulster based player that came from a sports journalist.

From a Div 1 county?

That would mean it's a Donegal, Monaghan or Tyrone payer according to your source.

Lower league player according to the examiner today.

So Oliver Kelly's source thinks that he's a bit of a godhelpus and fed him load of codswallop?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: TheGreatest on April 27, 2020, 01:40:38 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 27, 2020, 12:21:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2020, 05:16:19 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on April 26, 2020, 01:51:43 PM
That's all I know. I didn't actually hear which player it was but was informed it was an Ulster based player that came from a sports journalist.

From a Div 1 county?

That would mean it's a Donegal, Monaghan or Tyrone payer according to your source.

Lower league player according to the examiner today.

Division 4.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: balladmaker on April 27, 2020, 01:51:04 PM
Quote from: TheGreatest on April 27, 2020, 01:40:38 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 27, 2020, 12:21:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2020, 05:16:19 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on April 26, 2020, 01:51:43 PM
That's all I know. I didn't actually hear which player it was but was informed it was an Ulster based player that came from a sports journalist.

From a Div 1 county?

That would mean it's a Donegal, Monaghan or Tyrone payer according to your source.

Lower league player according to the examiner today.

Division 4.

Antrim then by powers of deduction ...
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: themac_23 on April 27, 2020, 03:26:41 PM
Just a question, if a player is banned for 'Failing a drugs test' are they still able to play club football?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 03:40:54 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 27, 2020, 03:26:41 PM
Just a question, if a player is banned for 'Failing a drugs test' are they still able to play club football?

No. The Irish Sports Council will give a ban, which the GAA is to uphold on all competitions against the players registration.

It gets a bit murky if you then transfer abroad as an Irish Ban on an amateur game is hardly likely to be upheld, even though the player is for all intents and purposes banned from GAA games.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: themac_23 on April 27, 2020, 03:53:15 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 03:40:54 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 27, 2020, 03:26:41 PM
Just a question, if a player is banned for 'Failing a drugs test' are they still able to play club football?

No. The Irish Sports Council will give a ban, which the GAA is to uphold on all competitions against the players registration.

It gets a bit murky if you then transfer abroad as an Irish Ban on an amateur game is hardly likely to be upheld, even though the player is for all intents and purposes banned from GAA games.

Just find it unfair that players are held to a different standard, for example a player who's on a county panel can get banned for taking a supplement yet his brother cousin who plays on the same club team and takes the same supplement isn't bound by the same testing rules, surely that cant be right. i understand that its probably to do with grants and that which are available to county players but it just doesn't sit right with me
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 04:12:58 PM
I would be in agreement with yourself, not in any way promoting doping in sport but for these lads to be doing what they do at the level they do, to then be subjected to professional testing whilst not being remunerated accordingly doesn't sit right with me. But then again, the deal was signed with grants as you say so I suppose who am I to argue.

Depending on what figures you look at you could argue there is limited testing to IC GAA players anyway, the numbers are very small. Think the Irish Times said it was something like 20% there awhile ago (open to correction). Which is a drop in the ocean really considering and gets even lower the younger the player.

With regards to doping in the GAA on the whole, I would say with certainty that it is there at club level and county level....rife? Not so much. People link doping with bodybuilder type physiques which would be a hindrance in our games and they tend to think there is no problem as our players are leaning again (unlike the bulky mid 00s say).

Then again, every county team has a doctor....it's not that hard to get a TUE these days. Without knowing the ins and outs of that field I would imagine Sport Ireland have GAA players very far down their list with regards to questioning these.





Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 27, 2020, 09:07:22 PM
Intercounty players want to be treated like professionals so they have to act like them. Therefore doping regulations apply.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 28, 2020, 10:13:27 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 27, 2020, 09:07:22 PM
Intercounty players want to be treated like professionals so they have to act like them. Therefore doping regulations apply.

But....they are not.

In drug testing I don't think anyone has a problem with a Urine test. It's fairly non invasive, although someone standing behind you is a bit offputting when you can't go I suppose. There are drawbacks to a urine test admittedly, but again - there is no prize money at stake here in the GAA. So?

Blood Testing is completely invasive. Not appropriate.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 28, 2020, 12:34:36 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 28, 2020, 10:13:27 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 27, 2020, 09:07:22 PM
Intercounty players want to be treated like professionals so they have to act like them. Therefore doping regulations apply.

But....they are not.

In drug testing I don't think anyone has a problem with a Urine test. It's fairly non invasive, although someone standing behind you is a bit offputting when you can't go I suppose. There are drawbacks to a urine test admittedly, but again - there is no prize money at stake here in the GAA. So?

Blood Testing is completely invasive. Not appropriate.

They are. They recieve money. Its grant money, but its money. It was made very clear that drug testing was a condition of the money, so whats the problem?

The GPA can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 28, 2020, 05:17:58 PM
Turns out it was a Carlow lad. He's been named online there.

Surprised at the substance.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Angelo on April 28, 2020, 05:45:23 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on April 26, 2020, 01:51:43 PM
That's all I know. I didn't actually hear which player it was but was informed it was an Ulster based player that came from a sports journalist.

The sports journalist who informs you clearly thinks you are an awful mug.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: oliverkelly on April 28, 2020, 06:50:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 28, 2020, 05:45:23 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on April 26, 2020, 01:51:43 PM
That's all I know. I didn't actually hear which player it was but was informed it was an Ulster based player that came from a sports journalist.

The sports journalist who informs you clearly thinks you are an awful mug.
Wasnt me chatting to him so what he thinks of me remains to be seen. Glad it wasn't a player for one of the better counties
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: screenexile on April 28, 2020, 06:57:41 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWtMh22WkAQI4rr?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Angelo on April 28, 2020, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2020, 06:57:41 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWtMh22WkAQI4rr?format=jpg&name=medium)

Does it take long for steroids to exit your system with regards to traceability?

I remember reading an article with Paul Kimmage a few years back where he was doing some expose on drugs in French rugby and some expert he interviewed reckoned that you'd still keep something like 30% of the benefits of steroids even after you stop using them. I'd say a lot of club players are probably at them in their off seasons with the hope of breaking into county setups. That Connolly lad from Monaghan definitely strikes me as one of those and wasn't expecting testing in the early-pre season.

Of course drugs in rugby are really just about swelling up their players and making them huge, I'd imagine gaelic football would be more about increasing endurance so I don't know if the retained gains apply the same.

Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: themac_23 on April 28, 2020, 07:53:45 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2020, 06:57:41 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWtMh22WkAQI4rr?format=jpg&name=medium)

this is what grinds my gears, lad at 35 not many years left and he cant even play club football because hes held to a higher set of rules than the other lads who are still able to play. With the Anti doping surely the ban should only apply to Inter County football/ Hurling? Gutted for the fella
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 28, 2020, 08:14:28 PM
Angelo, don't want to keep quoting the text with pic...

With regards to doping, you can be on a course of whatever...say for sake of this something like nandrolone which mimics a natural substance already in the body testosterone.

You can take it for, say two cycles of 8 weeks....your gains during these phases will be tremendous provided your doing the training / eating also as it will allow your body to recover in unparrelled time compared to nature.....the older you are, the longer this will take on top....

You then go off the nandroline, you'll have to take a PCT then to get your body right (i.e. hit the reset button) but you'll still have the gains of that training you did when under the drug provided you did the maintenance. Sorta why the Jamaica sprinters only train on their island over the winter (which doesn't or at least did not for a long time allow testing) then come out and smash all kinds of records in the summer.

You won't be able to train at the same rate obviously, but you'll be able to 'maintain'. It stays in your system for a few months....that will vary on dosage, lifestyle, genetics etc...the most common method these days is micro dosing, tiny amounts on the regular - a choice of Mr Salazar, Mo Farrah coach but of course I'm not for one minute suggesting Mo was on something other than astma treatment for astma he did not have.

Surprised Meldonium was the substance though but I would imagine it's fairly easy to purchase online from Eastern Europe

Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Angelo on April 28, 2020, 08:47:06 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 28, 2020, 08:14:28 PM
Angelo, don't want to keep quoting the text with pic...

With regards to doping, you can be on a course of whatever...say for sake of this something like nandrolone which mimics a natural substance already in the body testosterone.

You can take it for, say two cycles of 8 weeks....your gains during these phases will be tremendous provided your doing the training / eating also as it will allow your body to recover in unparrelled time compared to nature.....the older you are, the longer this will take on top....

You then go off the nandroline, you'll have to take a PCT then to get your body right (i.e. hit the reset button) but you'll still have the gains of that training you did when under the drug provided you did the maintenance. Sorta why the Jamaica sprinters only train on their island over the winter (which doesn't or at least did not for a long time allow testing) then come out and smash all kinds of records in the summer.

You won't be able to train at the same rate obviously, but you'll be able to 'maintain'. It stays in your system for a few months....that will vary on dosage, lifestyle, genetics etc...the most common method these days is micro dosing, tiny amounts on the regular - a choice of Mr Salazar, Mo Farrah coach but of course I'm not for one minute suggesting Mo was on something other than astma treatment for astma he did not have.

Surprised Meldonium was the substance though but I would imagine it's fairly easy to purchase online from Eastern Europe

That's interesting.

I'd say it's quite rampant in the GAA, nothing to stop a lad taking a year out from the county scene to try and get an edge in this regard.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: twohands!!! on April 28, 2020, 10:05:56 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 28, 2020, 07:53:45 PM

this is what grinds my gears, lad at 35 not many years left and he cant even play club football because hes held to a higher set of rules than the other lads who are still able to play. With the Anti doping surely the ban should only apply to Inter County football/ Hurling? Gutted for the fella

Zero sympathy from me - no-one put a gun to his head.

The fact that it's a four year bans indicates that the powers-that-be believe that this was wholly intentional.

If Anti-doping bans only applied to Inter-County, it would effectively give a carte blanche to doping at club level.

By rights there should be drug testing at club level - protect the overwhelming vast majority of honest players from the likely tiny number of cheats.

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 04:12:58 PM

Then again, every county team has a doctor....it's not that hard to get a TUE these days. Without knowing the ins and outs of that field I would imagine Sport Ireland have GAA players very far down their list with regards to questioning these.

The number of TUE exemptions granted in GAA for 2019 were 2.

There was a total of 44 TUEs granted (8 requests were turned down)

Rugby had 9 and soccer had 6.

Page 21 of the 2019 report

Overall there were 135 GAA players drug tested in Ireland (4th highest) - Cycling 218, Rugby 196, Athletics 154
Soccer only had 55 players tested, which seems a bit low - rowing, swimming and paralympics all had more tests done.

Ladies football had 4 tests and Camogie 4 as well.

https://www.sportireland.ie/sites/default/files/media/document/2020-04/antidoping-review-2019.pdf
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 28, 2020, 11:09:59 PM
I would assume the reason soccer is lower is because they only test loi players, so thats 20 clubs versus 64 county teams. Although rugby is only 4 clubs, its so rampant the testers must have an office at Munster.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 28, 2020, 11:18:23 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 28, 2020, 07:53:45 PM


this is what grinds my gears, lad at 35 not many years left and he cant even play club football because hes held to a higher set of rules than the other lads who are still able to play. With the Anti doping surely the ban should only apply to Inter County football/ Hurling? Gutted for the fella

A well known LoI player got 2 years for pissing off home without pissing. He failed to give a sample, 2 years, thats how seriously thay take it. He is banned from all soccer globally for 2 years. No dropping down to the pub leagues. Not insured to train .Thats how it works, they may only test at a certsin level, but if you are caught, thats you.

You can't have a situation where an open and shut steroid abuser can get caught and play away at club.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Never beat the deeler on April 29, 2020, 12:09:56 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 28, 2020, 11:18:23 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 28, 2020, 07:53:45 PM


this is what grinds my gears, lad at 35 not many years left and he cant even play club football because hes held to a higher set of rules than the other lads who are still able to play. With the Anti doping surely the ban should only apply to Inter County football/ Hurling? Gutted for the fella

A well known LoI player got 2 years for pissing off home without pissing. He failed to give a sample, 2 years, thats how seriously thay take it. He is banned from all soccer globally for 2 years. No dropping down to the pub leagues. Not insured to train .Thats how it works, they may only test at a certsin level, but if you are caught, thats you.

You can't have a situation where an open and shut steroid abuser can get caught and play away at club.

How many times did he miss a test before he got banned?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: redzone on April 29, 2020, 07:16:55 AM
Surely if you were totally innocent you fight to clear your name rather than just except it because you are old.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: RedHand88 on April 29, 2020, 08:16:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 28, 2020, 05:45:23 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on April 26, 2020, 01:51:43 PM
That's all I know. I didn't actually hear which player it was but was informed it was an Ulster based player that came from a sports journalist.

The sports journalist who informs you clearly thinks you are an awful mug.

Maybe hes just really bad at Geography.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: High Fielder on April 29, 2020, 08:44:05 AM
I wonder how much the Carlow lad got to be the scapegoat? A 35 year old inter County footballer (lol) retired because of a failed test. Pull the other one. Most top level sport is full of drugs. Masking agents make it all possible.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: imtommygunn on April 29, 2020, 08:54:04 AM
You get banned for masking agents too though.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: High Fielder on April 29, 2020, 08:58:22 AM
They couldn't even find a picture of him wearing the jersey. The pics I've seen must be at least five years old, maybe more. Whitewash
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 29, 2020, 09:14:15 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on April 28, 2020, 10:05:56 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 28, 2020, 07:53:45 PM

this is what grinds my gears, lad at 35 not many years left and he cant even play club football because hes held to a higher set of rules than the other lads who are still able to play. With the Anti doping surely the ban should only apply to Inter County football/ Hurling? Gutted for the fella

Zero sympathy from me - no-one put a gun to his head.

The fact that it's a four year bans indicates that the powers-that-be believe that this was wholly intentional.

If Anti-doping bans only applied to Inter-County, it would effectively give a carte blanche to doping at club level.

By rights there should be drug testing at club level - protect the overwhelming vast majority of honest players from the likely tiny number of cheats.

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 04:12:58 PM

Then again, every county team has a doctor....it's not that hard to get a TUE these days. Without knowing the ins and outs of that field I would imagine Sport Ireland have GAA players very far down their list with regards to questioning these.

The number of TUE exemptions granted in GAA for 2019 were 2.

There was a total of 44 TUEs granted (8 requests were turned down)

Rugby had 9 and soccer had 6.

Page 21 of the 2019 report

Overall there were 135 GAA players drug tested in Ireland (4th highest) - Cycling 218, Rugby 196, Athletics 154
Soccer only had 55 players tested, which seems a bit low - rowing, swimming and paralympics all had more tests done.

Ladies football had 4 tests and Camogie 4 as well.

https://www.sportireland.ie/sites/default/files/media/document/2020-04/antidoping-review-2019.pdf

By what right exactly?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: trailer on April 29, 2020, 09:44:17 AM
Is it me or is the tone of the press release drafted by the GPA overly confrontational?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2020, 10:51:53 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 29, 2020, 12:09:56 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 28, 2020, 11:18:23 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 28, 2020, 07:53:45 PM


this is what grinds my gears, lad at 35 not many years left and he cant even play club football because hes held to a higher set of rules than the other lads who are still able to play. With the Anti doping surely the ban should only apply to Inter County football/ Hurling? Gutted for the fella

A well known LoI player got 2 years for pissing off home without pissing. He failed to give a sample, 2 years, thats how seriously thay take it. He is banned from all soccer globally for 2 years. No dropping down to the pub leagues. Not insured to train .Thats how it works, they may only test at a certsin level, but if you are caught, thats you.

You can't have a situation where an open and shut steroid abuser can get caught and play away at club.

How many times did he miss a test before he got banned?

One. Failed to provide a sample. Went home. 2 years.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2020, 10:55:10 AM
Quote from: redzone on April 29, 2020, 07:16:55 AM
Surely if you were totally innocent you fight to clear your name rather than just except it because you are old.

Expensive though.

You could be cynical and suggest he had the last word saying it was an otc medication for a stomach thing and that is that. If that is the case 4 years is outrageous and a travesty. But we will never know the actual circumstances because he is leaving it there.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Never beat the deeler on April 29, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2020, 10:51:53 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 29, 2020, 12:09:56 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 28, 2020, 11:18:23 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 28, 2020, 07:53:45 PM


this is what grinds my gears, lad at 35 not many years left and he cant even play club football because hes held to a higher set of rules than the other lads who are still able to play. With the Anti doping surely the ban should only apply to Inter County football/ Hurling? Gutted for the fella

A well known LoI player got 2 years for pissing off home without pissing. He failed to give a sample, 2 years, thats how seriously thay take it. He is banned from all soccer globally for 2 years. No dropping down to the pub leagues. Not insured to train .Thats how it works, they may only test at a certsin level, but if you are caught, thats you.

You can't have a situation where an open and shut steroid abuser can get caught and play away at club.

How many times did he miss a test before he got banned?

One. Failed to provide a sample. Went home. 2 years.

I always thought you got a couple of chances before a ban. Every day is a school day
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 29, 2020, 12:03:03 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2020, 10:55:10 AM
Quote from: redzone on April 29, 2020, 07:16:55 AM
Surely if you were totally innocent you fight to clear your name rather than just except it because you are old.

Expensive though.

You could be cynical and suggest he had the last word saying it was an otc medication for a stomach thing and that is that. If that is the case 4 years is outrageous and a travesty. But we will never know the actual circumstances because he is leaving it there.

Meldonium would not find its way into the human body through some kind of prescription for any kind of stomach issue though.

Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: tiempo on April 29, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2020, 02:49:53 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 29, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2020, 10:51:53 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 29, 2020, 12:09:56 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 28, 2020, 11:18:23 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 28, 2020, 07:53:45 PM


this is what grinds my gears, lad at 35 not many years left and he cant even play club football because hes held to a higher set of rules than the other lads who are still able to play. With the Anti doping surely the ban should only apply to Inter County football/ Hurling? Gutted for the fella

A well known LoI player got 2 years for pissing off home without pissing. He failed to give a sample, 2 years, thats how seriously thay take it. He is banned from all soccer globally for 2 years. No dropping down to the pub leagues. Not insured to train .Thats how it works, they may only test at a certsin level, but if you are caught, thats you.

You can't have a situation where an open and shut steroid abuser can get caught and play away at club.

How many times did he miss a test before he got banned?

One. Failed to provide a sample. Went home. 2 years.

I always thought you got a couple of chances before a ban. Every day is a school day

Same as Rio. He failed the test by failing to take the test. I think the severity was he was in the room with a bottle of water and just decided to leave.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2020, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 29, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Hold up. It is banned at club level and the GAA can arrange testing at any level tomorrow if it wants. The only amateur sports people I am aware of being tested are cyclists (for obvious reasons) and NCAA (and I assume a scenario where an amateur side qualify for Europe in soccer). I think we all agree we ate nowhrre near cycling problems. So is the expense and confrontation worth it?

Sports Ireland test in professional sport, and the grants put intercounty players in that bracket.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: shark on April 29, 2020, 06:21:36 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2020, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 29, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Hold up. It is banned at club level and the GAA can arrange testing at any level tomorrow if it wants. The only amateur sports people I am aware of being tested are cyclists (for obvious reasons) and NCAA (and I assume a scenario where an amateur side qualify for Europe in soccer). I think we all agree we ate nowhrre near cycling problems. So is the expense and confrontation worth it?

Sports Ireland test in professional sport, and the grants put intercounty players in that bracket.

Athletics too. Sports Ireland will only test those who are carded (receive grants), however a non-carded athlete could for example qualify for the European Cross Country championships and be randomly selected for a test after the race.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Gael85 on April 29, 2020, 11:13:26 PM
Quote from: High Fielder on April 29, 2020, 08:58:22 AM
They couldn't even find a picture of him wearing the jersey. The pics I've seen must be at least five years old, maybe more. Whitewash

He last played championship for Carlow in 05.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2020, 11:17:41 PM
Quote from: shark on April 29, 2020, 06:21:36 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2020, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 29, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Hold up. It is banned at club level and the GAA can arrange testing at any level tomorrow if it wants. The only amateur sports people I am aware of being tested are cyclists (for obvious reasons) and NCAA (and I assume a scenario where an amateur side qualify for Europe in soccer). I think we all agree we ate nowhrre near cycling problems. So is the expense and confrontation worth it?

Sports Ireland test in professional sport, and the grants put intercounty players in that bracket.

Athletics too. Sports Ireland will only test those who are carded (receive grants), however a non-carded athlete could for example qualify for the European Cross Country championships and be randomly selected for a test after the race.

So not amateur athletes per say, but an amateur can qualify for an elite competition and fall into the regieme then?

So nothing stopping you juicing away your pre season? Hard one to call.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Never beat the deeler on April 30, 2020, 01:42:23 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2020, 02:49:53 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 29, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2020, 10:51:53 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 29, 2020, 12:09:56 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 28, 2020, 11:18:23 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 28, 2020, 07:53:45 PM


this is what grinds my gears, lad at 35 not many years left and he cant even play club football because hes held to a higher set of rules than the other lads who are still able to play. With the Anti doping surely the ban should only apply to Inter County football/ Hurling? Gutted for the fella

A well known LoI player got 2 years for pissing off home without pissing. He failed to give a sample, 2 years, thats how seriously thay take it. He is banned from all soccer globally for 2 years. No dropping down to the pub leagues. Not insured to train .Thats how it works, they may only test at a certsin level, but if you are caught, thats you.

You can't have a situation where an open and shut steroid abuser can get caught and play away at club.

How many times did he miss a test before he got banned?

One. Failed to provide a sample. Went home. 2 years.

I always thought you got a couple of chances before a ban. Every day is a school day

Same as Rio. He failed the test by failing to take the test. I think the severity was he was in the room with a bottle of water and just decided to leave.

I must have been getting confused with USADA and their three strikes policy, though to be fair that's based on an athlete not updating USADA where they will be at any given time (you could see how that could easily be missed once) as opposed to leaving a game without giving a sample after being asked to.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/aug/23/us-sprinter-christian-coleman-ban-alleged-missed-drug-tests (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/aug/23/us-sprinter-christian-coleman-ban-alleged-missed-drug-tests)
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 07:11:55 AM
Quote from: tiempo on April 29, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let's say it was an international rugby player. You couldn't ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 09:26:53 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 07:11:55 AM
Quote from: tiempo on April 29, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let's say it was an international rugby player. You couldn't ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: marty34 on April 30, 2020, 09:58:55 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 09:26:53 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 07:11:55 AM
Quote from: tiempo on April 29, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let's say it was an international rugby player. You couldn't ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.

So what do we do - let everybody try these substances.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 10:10:45 AM
As said prior, Intercounty Players get grants so that must encompass some kind of testing, which is fair enough.

To test club players is completely out of order, the game is amateur. Whatever about the training or the fairness if someone does cheat, the club game is amateur. That type of intrusion is unacceptable and would be blurring all types of lines legally thereafter. A club player gets absolutely no benefit from playing GAA financially, infact, it could be argued, it probably costs them to compete depending on circumstances and when fixtures may be fixed - Friday Night leaving work early, Saturday missing work altogether and so on.

Where do we stop? Do we test kids at U16 level?

Gaelic Football and Hurling are evasive sports. Rugby is an invasive sport. They are not comparable.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: marty34 on April 30, 2020, 10:21:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 10:10:45 AM
As said prior, Intercounty Players get grants so that must encompass some kind of testing, which is fair enough.

To test club players is completely out of order, the game is amateur. Whatever about the training or the fairness if someone does cheat, the club game is amateur. That type of intrusion is unacceptable and would be blurring all types of lines legally thereafter. A club player gets absolutely no benefit from playing GAA financially, infact, it could be argued, it probably costs them to compete depending on circumstances and when fixtures may be fixed - Friday Night leaving work early, Saturday missing work altogether and so on.

Where do we stop? Do we test kids at U16 level?

Gaelic Football and Hurling are evasive sports. Rugby is an invasive sport. They are not comparable.

This amateur stuff is always wheeled out.  It's like this waffle that's spouted out.."ahh, he got sent off in a semi-final and he'll miss the All Ireland Final.  That's not fair he'll miss the biggest day of the year. Poor lad".  Tough turkey.  He was sent off, that's the rules.

Is your case is basically saying to all players 'Open the floodgates' and let them all take ilegal substances with no penalty?
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 10:32:42 AM
Quote from: marty34 on April 30, 2020, 10:21:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 10:10:45 AM
As said prior, Intercounty Players get grants so that must encompass some kind of testing, which is fair enough.

To test club players is completely out of order, the game is amateur. Whatever about the training or the fairness if someone does cheat, the club game is amateur. That type of intrusion is unacceptable and would be blurring all types of lines legally thereafter. A club player gets absolutely no benefit from playing GAA financially, infact, it could be argued, it probably costs them to compete depending on circumstances and when fixtures may be fixed - Friday Night leaving work early, Saturday missing work altogether and so on.

Where do we stop? Do we test kids at U16 level?

Gaelic Football and Hurling are evasive sports. Rugby is an invasive sport. They are not comparable.

This amateur stuff is always wheeled out.  It's like this waffle that's spouted out.."ahh, he got sent off in a semi-final and he'll miss the All Ireland Final.  That's not fair he'll miss the biggest day of the year. Poor lad".  Tough turkey.  He was sent off, that's the rules.

Is your case is basically saying to all players 'Open the floodgates' and let them all take ilegal substances with no penalty?


You don't play sport do you?

Yes, that is the rules when someone is sent off. There is no rule regarding club player drug testing and thus that is the way it should stay, so the floodgates are already open. As you put it.

There is no 'reward' for doping in the GAA at club level. Even if your off your face on stimulants you need 14 other men playing to their best to even win the game. You might be great individually, which could, maybe result in a county call up where you'll be subjected to testing like everyone else on a higher platform. Even then, what do you get? A GPA grant? Trust me, you don't get that much a month from it, regional rugby player contracts aren't that much and they easily dwarf a county GPA grant.....and you don't have to bother going to work to top up.





Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 30, 2020, 11:16:42 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 09:26:53 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 07:11:55 AM
Quote from: tiempo on April 29, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let's say it was an international rugby player. You couldn't ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.
That is not correct. The grants system makes intercounty players professional from a SI perspective. They recieve money. And a lot more GAA players get money than rugby players.

This was explicitly the deal when the GPA obtained the grants.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 30, 2020, 11:19:04 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 10:32:42 AM
Quote from: marty34 on April 30, 2020, 10:21:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 10:10:45 AM
As said prior, Intercounty Players get grants so that must encompass some kind of testing, which is fair enough.

To test club players is completely out of order, the game is amateur. Whatever about the training or the fairness if someone does cheat, the club game is amateur. That type of intrusion is unacceptable and would be blurring all types of lines legally thereafter. A club player gets absolutely no benefit from playing GAA financially, infact, it could be argued, it probably costs them to compete depending on circumstances and when fixtures may be fixed - Friday Night leaving work early, Saturday missing work altogether and so on.

Where do we stop? Do we test kids at U16 level?

Gaelic Football and Hurling are evasive sports. Rugby is an invasive sport. They are not comparable.

This amateur stuff is always wheeled out.  It's like this waffle that's spouted out.."ahh, he got sent off in a semi-final and he'll miss the All Ireland Final.  That's not fair he'll miss the biggest day of the year. Poor lad".  Tough turkey.  He was sent off, that's the rules.

Is your case is basically saying to all players 'Open the floodgates' and let them all take ilegal substances with no penalty?


You don't play sport do you?

Yes, that is the rules when someone is sent off. There is no rule regarding club player drug testing and thus that is the way it should stay, so the floodgates are already open. As you put it.

There is no 'reward' for doping in the GAA at club level. Even if your off your face on stimulants you need 14 other men playing to their best to even win the game. You might be great individually, which could, maybe result in a county call up where you'll be subjected to testing like everyone else on a higher platform. Even then, what do you get? A GPA grant? Trust me, you don't get that much a month from it, regional rugby player contracts aren't that much and they easily dwarf a county GPA grant.....and you don't have to bother going to work to top up.

So why do rugby playets dope then? Why do ayers bust a gut to get on tbe county panrl jn general? I accept in general doping is of less value to a team sport player than an athlete in an individual discipline, but your logic is flawed.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: shark on April 30, 2020, 11:23:58 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2020, 11:17:41 PM
Quote from: shark on April 29, 2020, 06:21:36 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2020, 02:58:15 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 29, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Hold up. It is banned at club level and the GAA can arrange testing at any level tomorrow if it wants. The only amateur sports people I am aware of being tested are cyclists (for obvious reasons) and NCAA (and I assume a scenario where an amateur side qualify for Europe in soccer). I think we all agree we ate nowhrre near cycling problems. So is the expense and confrontation worth it?

Sports Ireland test in professional sport, and the grants put intercounty players in that bracket.

Athletics too. Sports Ireland will only test those who are carded (receive grants), however a non-carded athlete could for example qualify for the European Cross Country championships and be randomly selected for a test after the race.

So not amateur athletes per say, but an amateur can qualify for an elite competition and fall into the regieme then?

So nothing stopping you juicing away your pre season? Hard one to call.

Yep it is.
But it's a result of the limitation of grants for athletics. In the example above an athlete would need to come in the top 8 in the Euro X-Country to get the lowest level of grant payable. There are athletes out there, competing at an objectively high level, who receive less funding that a hurler from Leitrim.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 12:01:21 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 30, 2020, 11:19:04 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 10:32:42 AM
Quote from: marty34 on April 30, 2020, 10:21:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 10:10:45 AM
As said prior, Intercounty Players get grants so that must encompass some kind of testing, which is fair enough.

To test club players is completely out of order, the game is amateur. Whatever about the training or the fairness if someone does cheat, the club game is amateur. That type of intrusion is unacceptable and would be blurring all types of lines legally thereafter. A club player gets absolutely no benefit from playing GAA financially, infact, it could be argued, it probably costs them to compete depending on circumstances and when fixtures may be fixed - Friday Night leaving work early, Saturday missing work altogether and so on.

Where do we stop? Do we test kids at U16 level?

Gaelic Football and Hurling are evasive sports. Rugby is an invasive sport. They are not comparable.

This amateur stuff is always wheeled out.  It's like this waffle that's spouted out.."ahh, he got sent off in a semi-final and he'll miss the All Ireland Final.  That's not fair he'll miss the biggest day of the year. Poor lad".  Tough turkey.  He was sent off, that's the rules.

Is your case is basically saying to all players 'Open the floodgates' and let them all take ilegal substances with no penalty?


You don't play sport do you?

Yes, that is the rules when someone is sent off. There is no rule regarding club player drug testing and thus that is the way it should stay, so the floodgates are already open. As you put it.

There is no 'reward' for doping in the GAA at club level. Even if your off your face on stimulants you need 14 other men playing to their best to even win the game. You might be great individually, which could, maybe result in a county call up where you'll be subjected to testing like everyone else on a higher platform. Even then, what do you get? A GPA grant? Trust me, you don't get that much a month from it, regional rugby player contracts aren't that much and they easily dwarf a county GPA grant.....and you don't have to bother going to work to top up.

So why do rugby playets dope then? Why do ayers bust a gut to get on tbe county panrl jn general? I accept in general doping is of less value to a team sport player than an athlete in an individual discipline, but your logic is flawed.

You would have to ask Rugby players the reasons behind doping. However, it is a physically more demanding game than GAA sports over more aspects. Contact is key - more contact = more recovery. The contact I'm sure we can all agree has lessned massively since say, the 00s in our games, whereas in Rugby it's got bigger and bigger. Doping massively increases the rate of recovery. Having played both I can say with a fair degree of confidence that the need to dope in GAA is much, much less than in Rugby Union (League is another level).

Some people dope because they don't have the necessary size to compete in their chosen sport, they feel pressured. Some maybe like to feel big. Some want to be the best they can be. It's not always about the money aspect. But of course that comes with performance.


Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 09:26:53 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 07:11:55 AM
Quote from: tiempo on April 29, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let's say it was an international rugby player. You couldn't ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.

What's your point? Professional or not, if you get caught doping you should get a ban from all levels of the game
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 12:51:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 09:26:53 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 07:11:55 AM
Quote from: tiempo on April 29, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let's say it was an international rugby player. You couldn't ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.

What's your point? Professional or not, if you get caught doping you should get a ban from all levels of the game

What type of testing are you proposing?
Who pays for the tests on a club player?
Who tests club players that travel home for games only?
What standards is he/she held to?
Do they get banned if they are working and miss training the night of a proposed test?
Who keeps a track of the club player movements if subject to random testing?
Is it urine or IV testing?

Simply not feasible.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 12:58:20 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 12:51:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 09:26:53 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 07:11:55 AM
Quote from: tiempo on April 29, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let's say it was an international rugby player. You couldn't ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.

What's your point? Professional or not, if you get caught doping you should get a ban from all levels of the game

What type of testing are you proposing?
Who pays for the tests on a club player?
Who tests club players that travel home for games only?
What standards is he/she held to?
Do they get banned if they are working and miss training the night of a proposed test?
Who keeps a track of the club player movements if subject to random testing?
Is it urine or IV testing?

Simply not feasible.

I didn't say anything about testing club players. I said if a guy gets a ban it should be at all levels. If he is caught while on county duty then the ban should cover club games also

I probably could have made what I was agreeing with clearer  in fairness
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 01:02:11 PM
Ah well yeah, this Carlow fella is banned from all levels. It even extends to coaching I think. Which is another issue altogether.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: shark on April 30, 2020, 01:02:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 12:51:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 09:26:53 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 07:11:55 AM
Quote from: tiempo on April 29, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let's say it was an international rugby player. You couldn't ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.

What's your point? Professional or not, if you get caught doping you should get a ban from all levels of the game

What type of testing are you proposing?
Who pays for the tests on a club player?
Who tests club players that travel home for games only?
What standards is he/she held to?
Do they get banned if they are working and miss training the night of a proposed test?
Who keeps a track of the club player movements if subject to random testing?
Is it urine or IV testing?

Simply not feasible.


Testing of club players is quite clearly not feasible. Just like testing an amateur runner who competes at a national level is not feasible.
However, testing of county players is. The argument is that a county player who tests positive should be banned from all levels. This is consistent with athletics. An international class runner who is banned for doping can't just turn up at an AAI sanctioned 5km road race and run. He's banned from that too.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 01:55:27 PM
Quote from: shark on April 30, 2020, 01:02:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 12:51:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 09:26:53 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 07:11:55 AM
Quote from: tiempo on April 29, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let's say it was an international rugby player. You couldn't ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.

What's your point? Professional or not, if you get caught doping you should get a ban from all levels of the game

What type of testing are you proposing?
Who pays for the tests on a club player?
Who tests club players that travel home for games only?
What standards is he/she held to?
Do they get banned if they are working and miss training the night of a proposed test?
Who keeps a track of the club player movements if subject to random testing?
Is it urine or IV testing?

Simply not feasible.


Testing of club players is quite clearly not feasible. Just like testing an amateur runner who competes at a national level is not feasible.
However, testing of county players is. The argument is that a county player who tests positive should be banned from all levels. This is consistent with athletics. An international class runner who is banned for doping can't just turn up at an AAI sanctioned 5km road race and run. He's banned from that too.

I never argued that point, I agree with that. It was the testing of club players that I had an issue with.

I took up the argument when an International Rugby player was compared to a GAA player which in my view was incomparable in a sporting sense. But yes, if you fail a GAA Doping test, you should be banned at all levels. Banned from Coaching....I'm less on board with but I wouldn't feel the need to go to war about it.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: redzone on April 30, 2020, 03:23:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 10:10:45 AM
As said prior, Intercounty Players get grants so that must encompass some kind of testing, which is fair enough.

To test club players is completely out of order, the game is amateur. Whatever about the training or the fairness if someone does cheat, the club game is amateur. That type of intrusion is unacceptable and would be blurring all types of lines legally thereafter. A club player gets absolutely no benefit from playing GAA financially, infact, it could be argued, it probably costs them to compete depending on circumstances and when fixtures may be fixed - Friday Night leaving work early, Saturday missing work altogether and so on.

Where do we stop? Do we test kids at U16 level?

Gaelic Football and Hurling are evasive sports. Rugby is an invasive sport. They are not comparable.

What the hell are u on about
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 03:36:35 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 01:55:27 PM
Quote from: shark on April 30, 2020, 01:02:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 12:51:31 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 09:26:53 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 30, 2020, 07:11:55 AM
Quote from: tiempo on April 29, 2020, 12:47:48 PM
If banned at county level should definitely be banned at club level. Can't have someone who enhanced themselves illegally going round laying it on lads in club games thereafter. Obviously in an ideal world the club lads would be tested too and I'm sure a fair few are also cheating with use of substances, but they're not being grant funded, the county lads can suck it up and should take severe punishment if caught.

If the GAA were serious about it they'd make it a stipulation that all grant funded players are tested annually and all new grant funded players are tested before they are given the coin, no point lads using the dope to get on the county panel, getting coin sitting on the bench all year, then going back to the club juiced up for club champ... its a minefield, at a base level its cheating and unethical, more importantly often its damaging to the health of these lads doing it.

The GAA has (had) the coin and should front up and take the lead, put the "Pro" sports to shame with a leading programme and transparency.

Got to agree with this. Let's say it was an international rugby player. You couldn't ban him (or her) from playing for Ireland but allow them to play for their province

Rugby players are professional. Gaelic Footballers or Hurlers are not.

What's your point? Professional or not, if you get caught doping you should get a ban from all levels of the game

What type of testing are you proposing?
Who pays for the tests on a club player?
Who tests club players that travel home for games only?
What standards is he/she held to?
Do they get banned if they are working and miss training the night of a proposed test?
Who keeps a track of the club player movements if subject to random testing?
Is it urine or IV testing?

Simply not feasible.


Testing of club players is quite clearly not feasible. Just like testing an amateur runner who competes at a national level is not feasible.
However, testing of county players is. The argument is that a county player who tests positive should be banned from all levels. This is consistent with athletics. An international class runner who is banned for doping can't just turn up at an AAI sanctioned 5km road race and run. He's banned from that too.

I never argued that point, I agree with that. It was the testing of club players that I had an issue with.

I took up the argument when an International Rugby player was compared to a GAA player which in my view was incomparable in a sporting sense. But yes, if you fail a GAA Doping test, you should be banned at all levels. Banned from Coaching....I'm less on board with but I wouldn't feel the need to go to war about it.

I wasn't comparing them in a sporting sense in that case. More about how a ban should be applied
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 30, 2020, 03:38:05 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 12:01:21 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 30, 2020, 11:19:04 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 10:32:42 AM
Quote from: marty34 on April 30, 2020, 10:21:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 10:10:45 AM
As said prior, Intercounty Players get grants so that must encompass some kind of testing, which is fair enough.

To test club players is completely out of order, the game is amateur. Whatever about the training or the fairness if someone does cheat, the club game is amateur. That type of intrusion is unacceptable and would be blurring all types of lines legally thereafter. A club player gets absolutely no benefit from playing GAA financially, infact, it could be argued, it probably costs them to compete depending on circumstances and when fixtures may be fixed - Friday Night leaving work early, Saturday missing work altogether and so on.

Where do we stop? Do we test kids at U16 level?

Gaelic Football and Hurling are evasive sports. Rugby is an invasive sport. They are not comparable.

This amateur stuff is always wheeled out.  It's like this waffle that's spouted out.."ahh, he got sent off in a semi-final and he'll miss the All Ireland Final.  That's not fair he'll miss the biggest day of the year. Poor lad".  Tough turkey.  He was sent off, that's the rules.

Is your case is basically saying to all players 'Open the floodgates' and let them all take ilegal substances with no penalty?


You don't play sport do you?

Yes, that is the rules when someone is sent off. There is no rule regarding club player drug testing and thus that is the way it should stay, so the floodgates are already open. As you put it.

There is no 'reward' for doping in the GAA at club level. Even if your off your face on stimulants you need 14 other men playing to their best to even win the game. You might be great individually, which could, maybe result in a county call up where you'll be subjected to testing like everyone else on a higher platform. Even then, what do you get? A GPA grant? Trust me, you don't get that much a month from it, regional rugby player contracts aren't that much and they easily dwarf a county GPA grant.....and you don't have to bother going to work to top up.

So why do rugby playets dope then? Why do ayers bust a gut to get on tbe county panrl jn general? I accept in general doping is of less value to a team sport player than an athlete in an individual discipline, but your logic is flawed.

You would have to ask Rugby players the reasons behind doping. However, it is a physically more demanding game than GAA sports over more aspects. Contact is key - more contact = more recovery. The contact I'm sure we can all agree has lessned massively since say, the 00s in our games, whereas in Rugby it's got bigger and bigger. Doping massively increases the rate of recovery. Having played both I can say with a fair degree of confidence that the need to dope in GAA is much, much less than in Rugby Union (League is another level).

Some people dope because they don't have the necessary size to compete in their chosen sport, they feel pressured. Some maybe like to feel big. Some want to be the best they can be. It's not always about the money aspect. But of course that comes with performance.

Thats fine, but its not what you originally said.

You claimed there was no point in doping in the GAA as you are reliant on the other 14 players to win. Same logic applies to rugby.

One thing we are missing here is a proper regieme of PED's is expensive, tens of thousands. In rugby it seems to be players pushing the envelope with inhalers and OTC medication. And one Irish franchise is getting quite the reputation.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 03:58:26 PM
Yes I said that but the context was key - I said ....There is no 'reward' for doping in the GAA at club level. Even if your off your face on stimulants you need 14 other men playing to their best to even win the game. whereas in professional sport you can win a contract and gain financially despite losing a game / championship.

As for the cost of PEDs....depends what you are after, a tub of decent preworkout will cost you about E50....Some of them would cause you to fail a blood test easily.

Ephedrine is a stimulant easily bought online, not expensive at all....actually, probably less than the preworkout depending where you get it.

For a full on blown course of whatever steroid takes your fancy? Yeah that can be as expensive as you want it to be.

Just googled the price of what this particular player in question tested positive for, looks around 40E direct from Latvia.

Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 30, 2020, 04:33:48 PM
But you can win a county 'contract' by shining at club level...
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 05:19:14 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 30, 2020, 04:33:48 PM
But you can win a county 'contract' by shining at club level...

Its not that much. You don't get to turn pro on little over a grand a month.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 30, 2020, 05:41:38 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 05:19:14 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 30, 2020, 04:33:48 PM
But you can win a county 'contract' by shining at club level...

Its not that much. You don't get to turn pro on little over a grand a month.

Its more than an acadamy contract in rugby or most LoI first division players get.

But assume players want to go county for other reasons.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: gallsman on May 02, 2020, 10:29:17 AM
Good discussion on Second Captains on this the other. Think there's a fundamental lack of understanding of why people at all levels of sport dope. I think very few people expressly dope in the hope of financial reward. They dope because they want to be better for whatever reason, to shine and to win. The financial rewards that come with that are a mere bonus

As for your man, f**k him and his "oh I wasnt educated about doping" nonsense. He's offered no excuse of explanation for the presence of a substance that has precisely zero chance of being interested accidentally in his system. The fact he returned to the county panel at 35 after years away and has subsequently tested positive would make you question how long he'd been at it.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: Angelo on May 02, 2020, 12:19:58 PM
Quote from: redzone on April 30, 2020, 03:23:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 10:10:45 AM
As said prior, Intercounty Players get grants so that must encompass some kind of testing, which is fair enough.

To test club players is completely out of order, the game is amateur. Whatever about the training or the fairness if someone does cheat, the club game is amateur. That type of intrusion is unacceptable and would be blurring all types of lines legally thereafter. A club player gets absolutely no benefit from playing GAA financially, infact, it could be argued, it probably costs them to compete depending on circumstances and when fixtures may be fixed - Friday Night leaving work early, Saturday missing work altogether and so on.

Where do we stop? Do we test kids at U16 level?

Gaelic Football and Hurling are evasive sports. Rugby is an invasive sport. They are not comparable.

What the hell are u on about

Presumably it's that rugby is a sports where meatheads just try and charge through each other, association football is a game where you try and elude the opposition, Gaelic football probably comes somewhere in the middle but more toward association football.
Title: Re: Another Kerry player fails a doping test
Post by: macdanger2 on May 02, 2020, 08:11:22 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 30, 2020, 01:42:23 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2020, 02:49:53 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 29, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2020, 10:51:53 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 29, 2020, 12:09:56 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 28, 2020, 11:18:23 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 28, 2020, 07:53:45 PM


this is what grinds my gears, lad at 35 not many years left and he cant even play club football because hes held to a higher set of rules than the other lads who are still able to play. With the Anti doping surely the ban should only apply to Inter County football/ Hurling? Gutted for the fella

A well known LoI player got 2 years for pissing off home without pissing. He failed to give a sample, 2 years, thats how seriously thay take it. He is banned from all soccer globally for 2 years. No dropping down to the pub leagues. Not insured to train .Thats how it works, they may only test at a certsin level, but if you are caught, thats you.

You can't have a situation where an open and shut steroid abuser can get caught and play away at club.

How many times did he miss a test before he got banned?

One. Failed to provide a sample. Went home. 2 years.

I always thought you got a couple of chances before a ban. Every day is a school day

Same as Rio. He failed the test by failing to take the test. I think the severity was he was in the room with a bottle of water and just decided to leave.

I must have been getting confused with USADA and their three strikes policy, though to be fair that's based on an athlete not updating USADA where they will be at any given time (you could see how that could easily be missed once) as opposed to leaving a game without giving a sample after being asked to.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/aug/23/us-sprinter-christian-coleman-ban-alleged-missed-drug-tests (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/aug/23/us-sprinter-christian-coleman-ban-alleged-missed-drug-tests)

The case BB is talking about is that the player knew that a sample was being requested but essentially refused to give a sample by leaving. If the tester can't get in contact, it can be an "honest" mistake and it's a 3 strikes policy I think

I'd have zero sympathy for this lad from Carlow, should be a lifetime ban imo