The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[Hardy]

Well said, Hound.

[muppet]

Great post Declan.

After FF's disastrous version of populism, leftist populism (screw the 'rich') would bury us for an extra 5 years on top of the depression we will have. Voting for people who prioritise the Public Sector and high taxes is hardly the solution to our problems but Gilmore for example is doing a great job of attracting voters.

Half of all income tax is paid by a low percentage of high earners. It is spin and lies suggesting high earners are somehow not pulling their weight from a tax point of view. From what I see most of those who publicly demand high earners pay even more tax, pay little or no tax themselves.

Either way, the problem for the Dept of Finance is this. Tax the f*ck out of high earners and some of them will move to another jurisdiction. Lots of these people work for foreign outfits in places like the IFSC, Intel, Google etc. Some of them spend lots of time abroad as it is. Remember these people pay the vast majority of the income tax raised in Ireland. Even if only 20% of them moved it would be disastrous for the tax take. Driving them out is not clever.

As for the 'wealth tax' proposal. Let's say it was 1%. Take Michael O'Leary, of whom I make no secret of my loathing. However, if he is worth €500 Million he will have to pay €5 Million a year in wealth tax alone. Does anyone with more than one functional brain cell see that it might be in his interests to take himself and his €500 Million out of the State?

Replacing populist right nonsense with populism left nonsense is not a good idea.

[Hardy]

And well said Muppet.

(Did you mean to credit Hound, not Declan?)

[seafoid]

Meanwhile Fitch has downgraded Ireland by 3 notches to BBB+  and market players believe Ireland is headed to junk status. All thanks to the banks. 


BTW Muppet you should apply to have the thread declared a UNESCO monument. It could become part of Leaving cert honours economics and7or certain university courses. .   

[muppet]

And well said Muppet.

(Did you mean to credit Hound, not Declan?)

Declan's Alkibond post. Generally agree with Hound's though as well.

The only thing is I'm not arguing to lower taxes for high earners. Leave them where they are.

[Tyrones own]

Great post Declan.

After FF's disastrous version of populism, leftist populism (screw the 'rich') would bury us for an extra 5 years on top of the depression we will have. Voting for people who prioritise the Public Sector and high taxes is hardly the solution to our problems but Gilmore for example is doing a great job of attracting voters.

Half of all income tax is paid by a low percentage of high earners. It is spin and lies suggesting high earners are somehow not pulling their weight from a tax point of view. From what I see most of those who publicly demand high earners pay even more tax, pay little or no tax themselves.

Either way, the problem for the Dept of Finance is this. Tax the f*ck out of high earners and some of them will move to another jurisdiction. Lots of these people work for foreign outfits in places like the IFSC, Intel, Google etc. Some of them spend lots of time abroad as it is. Remember these people pay the vast majority of the income tax raised in Ireland. Even if only 20% of them moved it would be disastrous for the tax take. Driving them out is not clever.

As for the 'wealth tax' proposal. Let's say it was 1%. Take Michael O'Leary, of whom I make no secret of my loathing. However, if he is worth €500 Million he will have to pay €5 Million a year in wealth tax alone. Does anyone with more than one functional brain cell see that it might be in his interests to take himself and his €500 Million out of the State?

Replacing populist right nonsense with populism left nonsense is not a good idea.

That a boy Muppet... you're coming around more and more everyday 
Taking from the willing to work and giving it to the lazy cnuts who won't
can only have one result and if any of ye entitlement recipients like these
idiots in London can't see that then we'll be down the toilet all the quicker.
Massive welfare cuts are what's necessary across the board... when a man can sit
at home and be as well off as opposed to going to work then something's badly wrong.
Quite simply unsustainable!!

[Hardy]

And well said Muppet.

(Did you mean to credit Hound, not Declan?)

Declan's Alkibond post. Generally agree with Hound's though as well.

OK - that was a great one too.

The only thing is I'm not arguing to lower taxes for high earners. Leave them where they are.

I agree.

[muppet]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,733522,00.html

The EU Is Pushing Ireland to the Brink of Ruin

I won't post the article but let's just say Lenihan's budget doesn't quite cut it and neither do the 'no bank left behind' or 'kick the can down the road' approaches.

[Rossfan]

majority of the income tax raised in Ireland. Even if only 20% of them ?

Taking from the willing to work and giving it to the lazy cnuts who won't........
at home and be as well off as opposed to going to work

Meanwhile in your dream world 453,000 jobs are unfilled in the 26 Counties.
Get a grip and talk some sense instead of spouting oul blinkered bullshit.

[seafoid]

Great post Declan.

After FF's disastrous version of populism, leftist populism (screw the 'rich') would bury us for an extra 5 years on top of the depression we will have. Voting for people who prioritise the Public Sector and high taxes is hardly the solution to our problems but Gilmore for example is doing a great job of attracting voters.

Half of all income tax is paid by a low percentage of high earners. It is spin and lies suggesting high earners are somehow not pulling their weight from a tax point of view. From what I see most of those who publicly demand high earners pay even more tax, pay little or no tax themselves.

Either way, the problem for the Dept of Finance is this. Tax the f*ck out of high earners and some of them will move to another jurisdiction. Lots of these people work for foreign outfits in places like the IFSC, Intel, Google etc. Some of them spend lots of time abroad as it is. Remember these people pay the vast majority of the income tax raised in Ireland. Even if only 20% of them moved it would be disastrous for the tax take. Driving them out is not clever.

As for the 'wealth tax' proposal. Let's say it was 1%. Take Michael O'Leary, of whom I make no secret of my loathing. However, if he is worth €500 Million he will have to pay €5 Million a year in wealth tax alone. Does anyone with more than one functional brain cell see that it might be in his interests to take himself and his €500 Million out of the State?

Replacing populist right nonsense with populism left nonsense is not a good idea.

That a boy Muppet... you're coming around more and more everyday 
Taking from the willing to work and giving it to the lazy cnuts who won't
can only have one result and if any of ye entitlement recipients like these
idiots in London can't see that then we'll be down the toilet all the quicker.
Massive welfare cuts are what's necessary across the board... when a man can sit
at home and be as well off as opposed to going to work then something's badly wrong.
Quite simply unsustainable!!

FFS. The whole of Tyrone is a welfare trap.
Without the UK treasury Tyrone and the rest of NI
would be a wasteland.

[Bogball XV]

Half of all income tax is paid by a low percentage of high earners. It is spin and lies suggesting high earners are somehow not pulling their weight from a tax point of view. From what I see most of those who publicly demand high earners pay even more tax, pay little or no tax themselves.

What'd I like to see is how those high earners make their money, somebody quoted IFSC, New Tech and Pharma companies, I don't really think that high earners in multi-nationals in Ireland would make up the bulk of high earners.
I don't know, but I think we'd be looking at medical professionals, law and accounting partners, bankers, civil servants etc.  And whilst they're well qualified professionals, there are two pertinent questions:

1. How much of their fee income is paid directly by the state, that can be via state legal fees, consultancy, commissioned reports, medical card capitation fees, salary etc.

2. What would these same people earn elsewhere?  Do they actually have the option of leaving?

Maybe there's a case for taxing income derived entirely from internal sources at a higher rate than external?  Maybe, real high income paye employees (most likely the guys in google, facebook, pharma companies) should not be taxed at the same levels as our hospital consultants, our GP's, our law and accounting partners?

[muppet]

Half of all income tax is paid by a low percentage of high earners. It is spin and lies suggesting high earners are somehow not pulling their weight from a tax point of view. From what I see most of those who publicly demand high earners pay even more tax, pay little or no tax themselves.

What'd I like to see is how those high earners make their money, somebody quoted IFSC, New Tech and Pharma companies, I don't really think that high earners in multi-nationals in Ireland would make up the bulk of high earners.
I don't know, but I think we'd be looking at medical professionals, law and accounting partners, bankers, civil servants etc.  And whilst they're well qualified professionals, there are two pertinent questions:

1. How much of their fee income is paid directly by the state, that can be via state legal fees, consultancy, commissioned reports, medical card capitation fees, salary etc.

2. What would these same people earn elsewhere?  Do they actually have the option of leaving?

Maybe there's a case for taxing income derived entirely from internal sources at a higher rate than external?  Maybe, real high income paye employees (most likely the guys in google, facebook, pharma companies) should not be taxed at the same levels as our hospital consultants, our GP's, our law and accounting partners?

Interesting idea. Although the State may end up paying via promissory notes anyway.

[bcarrier]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/1209/1224285100507.html

IRISH BANKS repaid €68.8 billion to senior bondholders and €1.4 billion to subordinated bondholders as their full debt fell due under the two-year blanket guarantee which ended in September, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan has said.
This meant that no bondholder had to share in the €60 billion recapitalisation costs of the domestic banks.
"As is normal practice when bonds mature, they are repaid – in this instance all were senior bonds and all were Government guaranteed. Furthermore, under Irish law senior debt obligations rank equally with deposits and other creditors," said Mr Lenihan.

And receivers of large bonuses evidently.

And under Irish law the NPRF is for the funding of future PS entitlements and not a plaything of the government.

"Keady chuckles at the mere mention of Linnane. "Sylvie used have a great oul' saying in the dressing-room," he smiles. "He'd say: 'Lads, ye'll win nothing if ye haven't a few tinkers in the team.' And we'd say: 'Well, we're delighted to have you anyway Sylvie!'" "

Ireland needs a few tinkers.

Yes but we've enough in the Dáil.

Ones who fight dirty .

Lenihan's quasi legal mumbo jumbo has utterly failed the state. Change the law then FFS.

[seafoid]

This man is on the ball

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koY6kXhQDQo

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Probably the sickest joke in 2010.

Pre-Irish Budget 2010, the Irish Government (Cowen, Lenihan, and the rest of those fcukin wasters) state that "...the pain will be shared".

At that point, the Taoiseach was on thirteen (yep, 13 -- worth it, eh?) times the salary of someone on the minimum wage.

Post-Irish Budget 2010, the durty rotten buffoon of a Biffo will be on FOURTEEN TIMES the salary of someone on the minimum wage.

They're beyond traitors.

The Millionaires' Budget

That's a load of bladdy codswallop.
Comparing the minimum wage to the taoiseach's salary? FFS, catch a grip.

And as for the figures of the very high self-employed earners being better off (and let's ignore that they've been hit by previous budgets and they'll be hit hard by the pension relief restrictions, so I doubt there'll be any actually better off) - but if you're self-employed and earning say €250,000 a year, you can be sure you've worked damn hard over a long number of years to get there, and you can be sure you're very good at what you do - plus you're likely to be employing people, and contributing payroll taxes and VAT to the exchequer - not to mention your individual taxes on their own would pay for 10 people on the dole every year, despite the dole being so high in the country.

These people have contributed hugely and are contributing hugely, and yet people want to target these people more, and ignore the thousands who havent contributed a cent in years, if ever

They rob the poor to pay the rich -- how noble.