The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[lynchbhoy]

being honest , 12 mnths ago (maybe less) I thought he was starting to do a good job on the finance - obv too much wishful thinking on my own part.
Lenihan though was never the right guy for the finance portfolio. Finance minister usually gets promoted to Taoiseach and I think this is what FF were grooming lenihan for.
Dermot ahearn was the man most suited to finance at the time. would he have been any better. maybe. maybe not. Dont think he would have been any worse.

at this stage as a voter I want to default on the bank bailout aspect of all this.
fcuk the banks. I dont think we as a country are tied to the fecking banks but we are made think this way . the banking fiasco is whats bringing us down. Surely we can have an election/referendum/revolution to state that we as a people will not stand for this bank bulls**t.

[whiskeysteve]

Seen a good article posted on politics.ie summing up the infamous runaway gravytrain at the top of the public sector...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2010/dec/06/ireland-public-sector-fat-cats

As well as the crazy salaries at the top (66 public servants get paid over 500,000), it puts the average wage at ESB as 70,000.

Some Irish v UK Salaries
UK: Prime minister David Cameron - £142,500.
Ireland: Taoiseach Brian Cowen - €228,446 (£193,250.01)
Who's on top? Ireland

UK: NHS chief executive David Nicolson - £255,000
Ireland: HSE chief executive Cathal Magee – salary of €322,000 (£272,390.43)
Who's on top? Ireland

Department of finance
UK: Treasury permanent secretary, Sir Nicholas Macpherson £175,000
Ireland: Department of finance's secretary general, Kevin Cardiff €228,446 (£193,250.01)
Who's on top? Ireland

An Post
UK: Royal Mail managing director Mark Middleton £154,999
Ireland: An Post chief executive Donal Connell €500,000 (£423,097.31)
Who's on top? Ireland

Top 10 earners in the Irish public sector (state and semi-state)

1. Head of ESB: €752,568
2. Head of Dublin Airport Authority: €568,100
3. Head of An Post: €500,000
4. Head of Coillte, the forestry commission €417,000
5. Head of Voluntary Health Insurance: €412,003
6. Head of Bord Gais: €394,000
7. Head of Bord na Mona (turf energy agency): €392,000
8. Head of RTE: (TV): €326,000
9. Head of CIE (transport): €252,416
10. Head of Health Services Executive: €335,913

[muppet]

Seen a good article posted on politics.ie summing up the infamous runaway gravytrain at the top of the public sector...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2010/dec/06/ireland-public-sector-fat-cats

As well as the crazy salaries at the top (66 public servants get paid over 500,000), it puts the average wage at ESB as 70,000.

Some Irish v UK Salaries
UK: Prime minister David Cameron - £142,500.
Ireland: Taoiseach Brian Cowen - €228,446 (£193,250.01)
Who's on top? Ireland

UK: NHS chief executive David Nicolson - £255,000
Ireland: HSE chief executive Cathal Magee – salary of €322,000 (£272,390.43)
Who's on top? Ireland

Department of finance
UK: Treasury permanent secretary, Sir Nicholas Macpherson £175,000
Ireland: Department of finance's secretary general, Kevin Cardiff €228,446 (£193,250.01)
Who's on top? Ireland

An Post
UK: Royal Mail managing director Mark Middleton £154,999
Ireland: An Post chief executive Donal Connell €500,000 (£423,097.31)
Who's on top? Ireland

Top 10 earners in the Irish public sector (state and semi-state)

1. Head of ESB: €752,568
2. Head of Dublin Airport Authority: €568,100
3. Head of An Post: €500,000
4. Head of Coillte, the forestry commission €417,000
5. Head of Voluntary Health Insurance: €412,003
6. Head of Bord Gais: €394,000
7. Head of Bord na Mona (turf energy agency): €392,000
8. Head of RTE: (TV): €326,000
9. Head of CIE (transport): €252,416
10. Head of Health Services Executive: €335,913

Does that include pensions? I think the gap would be bigger if it did.

[Bogball XV]

Some Irish v UK Salaries
UK: Prime minister David Cameron - £142,500.
Ireland: Taoiseach Brian Cowen - €228,446 (£193,250.01)
Who's on top? Ireland

More to the point, that was a huge cut that biffo was handed.  Hardly worth staying in the job.

The Taoiseach is set to receive a pay rise of €38,000 a year, which will bring his annual salary to €310,000.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1025/politics.html

[Bogball XV]

As well as the crazy salaries at the top (66 public servants get paid over 500,000), it puts the average wage at ESB as 70,000.

UK: NHS chief executive David Nicolson - £255,000
Ireland: HSE chief executive Cathal Magee – salary of €322,000 (£272,390.43)
Who's on top? Ireland

Brendan Drumm the previous head of the HSE made 450K p.a (including bonus, indeed, by what metric is the bonus calculated - decreases in deaths, cost reductions, A&E waiting times???).

Average workers wage in the ESB last years was 75,500, I don't know though if that was a median wage.

[Kerry Mike]

1. Head of ESB: €752,568
2. Head of Dublin Airport Authority: €568,100
3. Head of An Post: €500,000
4. Head of Coillte, the forestry commission €417,000
5. Head of Voluntary Health Insurance: €412,003
6. Head of Bord Gais: €394,000
7. Head of Bord na Mona (turf energy agency): €392,000
8. Head of RTE: (TV): €326,000
9. Head of CIE (transport): €252,416
10. Head of Health Services Executive: €335,913

Jaysus H. Christ on a f**king Motorbike, how in the name of f**k can the fellow in charge of a few bits of trees be paid more than something nationaklly important like the HSE for example, all of them are overpaid FFS but that takes the f**king Rich Tea

[Bogball XV]

Jaysus H. Christ on a f**king Motorbike, how in the name of f**k can the fellow in charge of a few bits of trees be paid more than something nationaklly important like the HSE for example, all of them are overpaid FFS but that takes the f**king Rich Tea

It's the state's most valuable asset Mike.

http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/dec/05/aherns-international-forestry-body-could-own-7-of-/

According to Department of Finance accounts for last year, Coillte is the most valuable state asset, with a net value of over €1.2bn. This is not the worth of the trees but the value of the land on which they are planted.




Earlier this year, the Sunday Tribune revealed that Ahern was appointed chairperson of the International Forestry Fund.




Significantly, a spokesman for the fund confirmed to this newspaper some months ago that the fund would consider an acquisition of Coillte.




A spokeswoman for Ahern said this weekend that "as he understands it, the International Forestry Fund has no intention of putting in a bid for Coillte".

[Bogball XV]

Merkel playing hardball - it's still the only viable solution imo.

Euro zone finance ministers meeting today face IMF pressure to increase the size of a €750 billion safety net for debt-stricken members to halt contagion in the single currency region.

But Germany today rejected any such move and also dismissed a call by two veteran finance ministers for joint euro bonds guaranteed by the whole euro zone.
International Monetary Fund chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn will call on ministers to boost the rescue pool and urge the European Central Bank (ECB) to step up its purchases of bonds to stem the crisis, according to an IMF report obtained by Reuters.

However, German chancellor Angela Merkel said she saw no need to increase the size of the bailout mechanism.

She cited legal obstacles to the issuance of a joint sovereign bond, or "E-bond" - an idea that was refloated jointly today by the chairman of the Eurogroup of euro zone finance ministers and Italy's finance minister.

Instead, Mrs Merkel called on European governments to implement tougher budget rules to prevent countries living beyond their means, guarding against the fiscal indiscipline that Germany sees as being the root cause of the euro zone debt crisis.

"The treaty does not in our firm view allow any euro bonds, so no uniform interest rate," Mrs Merkel told a joint news conference with visiting Polish prime minister Donald Tusk.

Countries would have a greater incentive to comply with the EU's fiscal rules, enshrined in the Stability and Growth Pact, if they each had to pay interest on their own debt, she said.

"It is important that innovations to the Stability and Growth Pact are implemented as these guarantee that in the future we will not have a situation like we had in the past," Mrs Merkel added.

Europe needed the euro, she said, and Germany would do everything to ensure the single currency was strong and safe - comments echoed by government spokesman Christoph Steegmans.

The ECB engineered a dip in the soaring borrowing costs of weaker euro zone states late last week by stepping up purchases of Irish and Portuguese government bonds, according to traders, and hinting it could do more.

But yield spreads over safe-haven German Bunds resumed their rise today, as did the cost of insuring their debt against default, and many analysts say only sustained, massive central bank bond-buying can reverse the trend.

The IMF report says a recovery in the euro zone, led by strong growth in its largest economy Germany, could "easily be derailed" by renewed market turmoil and describes pressure on so-called peripheral euro countries as a "severe downside risk".

Wide differences remain in the 16-nation single currency area over how to overcome a debt crisis that has already led to EU-IMF bailouts for Greece and Ireland, and now threatens to spread to Portugal, Spain and possibly Italy.

The IMF report and the situation on European debt markets will be discussed at length, a euro zone source said, at the regular meeting of the so-called Eurogroup.

That will be followed by a meeting tomorrow of ministers from the broader 27-nation European Union, who are expected to formally approve an €85 billion aid package for Ireland and discuss the reform of EU budget rules.

Economist Jim O'Neill, chairman of Goldman Sachs Asset Management, said the idea of common euro zone bonds made sense, and new ideas now emerging would eventually underpin European monetary union with stronger central leadership.

"If EMU is to thrive and to recover from this mess we're in, something like a common European bond as a symbol of a more truly coordinated and shared agenda by Europe's policymakers is not a bad idea," Mr O'Neill said.

He also said it was worth considering buying a basket of euro zone peripheral sovereign debt at current prices.

Ireland gained a small respite today when clearing house LCH Clearnet reduced the deposit it requires bond traders to pay on Irish sovereign bonds to 30 per cent of net positions from an emergency level of 45 per cent set on November 25th before the rescue.

But the 10-year bond yield rose 0.053 per cent to 8.199 per cent by 3.40pm.

[muppet]

http://www.financialstandard.com.au/news/view/30897/

Hungary nationalises private pensions
Tuesday, 30 November 2010 12:20pm
The Hungarian government has effectively nationalised the private pensions of its citizens in an effort to plug holes in the country's finances.

Confirming savers and foreign investors worst fears, the national economy minister, György Matolcsy announced last week that the Government would force investors in private pension schemes into the public system.

Those that fail to do so by the end of January next year will no longer be able to claim the public pension upon retirement.

Hungarians are reluctant to hand their money over because of the widely held expectation that the government will use the funds for its own purposes and current expenditures.

Analysts see the move as a huge backward step for the country as it effectively shifts away from an almost fully funded system based on defined contributions, to an unfunded, defined benefit retirement scheme.

[Bogball XV]

Heard Varadkar on some of the radio stations this evening, he reckons that there is very little chance that a new administration will make any changes to the budget legislation to be announced tomorrow - claims that the acts will have been passed etc, so there's nothing that can be done.  I'm not cynical, but.....
As a legislator he mustn't know much about legislation, a new budget should be the first order of business of any new govt, but I suppose they'll be too worried about who gets what office and what type of car they'll be allotted etc.

The more I hear the less likely i am to vote in this election.

[Expat]

Perhaps RTE  should air the documentary " THE STORY OF OZ ".Pehaps then irish people would then realize the ramifacations of this bailout on not only this generation but on their childrens generation. Maiden1 quote will become perfectly clear to all, "Give me control over a nations currency, and I care not who makes its laws". Baron M.A. Rothschild.

[Bogball XV]

It doesn't matter to FG what is in the budget. Lucinda Creighton has said she will abstain to pass it if need be. If it looks like it might fall (not likely) I wouldn't be surprised if more abstain. FG have already accepted the 4 year plan. They have accepted the target negotiated by FF. FG and FF would make basically the same cuts as the have accepted the same targets and would be doing it in line with the ECB/EU/IMF.

I'd be more pissed at Varadkar if he said he was going to reverse some cuts. Lowry and Healy Rae are playing this game which is disgusting but not unexpected. Varadkar would only end up cutting them further the following year to get back on target anyway.

As I said before, I don't believe we'll end up paying the bank debts, so I'm only talking about the sovereign debt and our fiscal deficit.  I agree that the deficit should be eradicated as quickly as possible, what I want to see is each party telling me how they're going to tackle the deficit and allow me to vote on that.  I think it's disingenious of a party to take power shortly after a draconian budget and say, nothing we can do about that, sorry.

[muppet]

It doesn't matter to FG what is in the budget. Lucinda Creighton has said she will abstain to pass it if need be. If it looks like it might fall (not likely) I wouldn't be surprised if more abstain. FG have already accepted the 4 year plan. They have accepted the target negotiated by FF. FG and FF would make basically the same cuts as the have accepted the same targets and would be doing it in line with the ECB/EU/IMF.

I'd be more pissed at Varadkar if he said he was going to reverse some cuts. Lowry and Healy Rae are playing this game which is disgusting but not unexpected. Varadkar would only end up cutting them further the following year to get back on target anyway.

As I said before, I don't believe we'll end up paying the bank debts, so I'm only talking about the sovereign debt and our fiscal deficit.  I agree that the deficit should be eradicated as quickly as possible, what I want to see is each party telling me how they're going to tackle the deficit and allow me to vote on that. I think it's disingenious of a party to take power shortly after a draconian budget and say, nothing we can do about that, sorry.

This is the key. Labour suggesting €4.5 Billion in savings is not realistic. Even with €6 Billion most independent, not vested interest types, are predicting 'restructuring' which is an orderly default. The cuts have to come one way or another.

Anyone who commits to:

a) cutting most of the banks and their private debt free;
b) slaughtering most of the Qangos before touching any frontline PS jobs;
c) reversing any decisions to exacerbate the pensions time-bomb;

has my vote (unless it is FF).

[whiskeysteve]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11937654

hmmm... have BOI finances taken a Kung Fu kick!? 

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/pan-european-bank-run-day-starts-bang-bank-ireland-atm-systems-fail

[trileacman]

For the day that is in it.

Could we possibly make this the national anthem of the new EU dominion of Anglo Ireland?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54k-RmPcIDw