The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[Puckoon]

How can that actually be allowed or tolerated?

[Declan]

How can that actually be allowed or tolerated?

I know it's absolute lunacy Puck - Just hope it people will wake up and realise what's happening

I don't always agree with Joe but he's spot on here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W2v8gaANb8

[Lecale2]

Mad stuff altogether.

Ireland should default. There's no way a small country can ever pay off debt of that scale.

They can only default on the banks bonds if we have a balanced budget because no one will loan us a dime when we do. If we take a big hit and balance the budget in a year we can escape the debt and in 5 years time we'll be back stronger.

Trying to pay off all the debts of the banks will kill the country sllowly. So really big cuts in everything now. Explain to the public that we simply have no money. Then default and refuse to pay the British and German banks a cent! F*ck them!

At the end of a really bad 2 years we'll have no debt at all and save a fortune in interest!

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

•   Reinvigorate activation policies to ensure that unemployed people can make a swift return to work

Is there an Irish or English translation available anywhere? 

A load of shite overall as the lower orders get screwed again to pay for the disgraceful behaviour of FFPDBankerDeveloperBuilderEstateAgentdome 

FCUK OFF  FF. IN THE NAME OF GOD GO NOW !!!and let enda/Eamonn in .... Jesus help us

Just watching the press conference on playback, after watching Primetime and the 6-One news on RTE player last night, I think my anger has changed to being depressed about the whole thing. Anyone else feel like its the last stages of a war that we are about to lose 

[Declan]

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/11/24/415436/a-de-facto-nationalisation-of-the-irish-banking-sector/

On Newstalk they where talking of figures of €350 Billion plus to pay back/cost us over the next few years between increased taxation, interest repayments and repaying the lump sum loans, I will admit to being lost to how they where calculating these figures. Can figures like this be actually right! They where saying that it would take the rest of a young adults life before we had paid it off, because we have to run a country at the same time. They where actually saying that figure may be conservative. Can anyone explain that was listening to Newstalk this morning, I don't think I have explained too well.

Existing National Debt of circa €90billion;
Bailout debt to be incurred over the next 3 years €85billion
Bonds falling due to be paid by Ireland in next 3 years €23billion
ECB funding put into our banks circa €100billion
Irish Central Bank money put into our banks in the last 2 weeks after the ECB cried no more, circa €30billion.

Circa €330billion all told.

[muppet]

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/11/24/415436/a-de-facto-nationalisation-of-the-irish-banking-sector/

On Newstalk they where talking of figures of €350 Billion plus to pay back/cost us over the next few years between increased taxation, interest repayments and repaying the lump sum loans, I will admit to being lost to how they where calculating these figures. Can figures like this be actually right! They where saying that it would take the rest of a young adults life before we had paid it off, because we have to run a country at the same time. They where actually saying that figure may be conservative. Can anyone explain that was listening to Newstalk this morning, I don't think I have explained too well.

Existing National Debt of circa €90billion;
Bailout debt to be incurred over the next 3 years €85billion
Bonds falling due to be paid by Ireland in next 3 years €23billion
ECB funding put into our banks circa €100billion
Irish Central Bank money put into our banks in the last 2 weeks after the ECB cried no more, circa €30billion.

Circa €330billion all told.

Is some of the bailout money not to refund the ECB money? Or am I guilty of over-optimism?

If our debt is €330 Billion an optimistic 5% interest would mean €16.5 Billion per annum.
For less than 1.9 Million workers or nearly €9,000 p/a for each of them.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/11/24/415436/a-de-facto-nationalisation-of-the-irish-banking-sector/

On Newstalk they where talking of figures of €350 Billion plus to pay back/cost us over the next few years between increased taxation, interest repayments and repaying the lump sum loans, I will admit to being lost to how they where calculating these figures. Can figures like this be actually right! They where saying that it would take the rest of a young adults life before we had paid it off, because we have to run a country at the same time. They where actually saying that figure may be conservative. Can anyone explain that was listening to Newstalk this morning, I don't think I have explained too well.

Existing National Debt of circa €90billion;
Bailout debt to be incurred over the next 3 years €85billion
Bonds falling due to be paid by Ireland in next 3 years €23billion
ECB funding put into our banks circa €100billion
Irish Central Bank money put into our banks in the last 2 weeks after the ECB cried no more, circa €30billion.

Circa €330billion all told.

Is some of the bailout money not to refund the ECB money? Or am I guilty of over-optimism?

If our debt is €330 Billion an optimistic 5% interest would mean €16.5 Billion per annum.
For less than 1.9 Million workers or nearly €9,000 p/a for each of them.

Thanks Declan, I actually deleted my post because I thought I must have been totally wrong. Glad you quoted me before I deleted my post. Its crazy stuff that we could have €330 Billion debt. We are too small to support such debt.

[muppet]

Just wondering, imagine if we sent an Irish commissioner into say Portugal or Spain to tell them how to run their economies. Watching Olli Rehn makes me think how we would expect them to react to:

Maire Geoghagan-Quinn?
Charlie McCreevy??
Padraig Flynn???

[muppet]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/11/how_much_capital_do_irelands_b.html

Update 1705: Bond markets have given a massive thumbs down to the Irish National Recovery Plan, which rather implies that investors don't think it's deliverable in Ireland's traumatic political climate.

The yield on the Irish 10-year bond has risen to 8.89% – yikes, back to record levels.

As for strike-riven Portugal, whose banks (like Ireland's) are excessively dependent on central bank support (to the tune of more than 8% of their liabilities, on my estimates), its 10-year government bonds are yielding 7%.

Meanwhile the yield on the Spanish 10-year has crept over 5%, for the first time since 2002.

[Bogball XV]

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/11/24/415436/a-de-facto-nationalisation-of-the-irish-banking-sector/

On Newstalk they where talking of figures of €350 Billion plus to pay back/cost us over the next few years between increased taxation, interest repayments and repaying the lump sum loans, I will admit to being lost to how they where calculating these figures. Can figures like this be actually right! They where saying that it would take the rest of a young adults life before we had paid it off, because we have to run a country at the same time. They where actually saying that figure may be conservative. Can anyone explain that was listening to Newstalk this morning, I don't think I have explained too well.

Existing National Debt of circa €90billion;
Bailout debt to be incurred over the next 3 years €85billion
Bonds falling due to be paid by Ireland in next 3 years €23billion
ECB funding put into our banks circa €100billion
Irish Central Bank money put into our banks in the last 2 weeks after the ECB cried no more, circa €30billion.

Circa €330billion all told.

I think the 100Bn from the ecb will be repayable from all bank inflows over the next few years, in other words when you and I are paying our mortgages that money replaces the ecb 100m - or have i misinterpreted?

What I'd like to know is that whilst we have built up all that debt on one side, what assets are we accruing on the other, what have the banks got that's worth something and what is it worth and secured on?  You know the type of thing, all those big hotels around the globe that paddy owns now etc...  There's must be something other than that estate in carrick on shannon?

[Pangurban]

A 5 yr.old child would be able to reason that a small Country like Ireland could not meet the interest payments on our current debts, yet alone repay them. We must default on Bank Guarantees, and burn the Bondholders, not just for own sakes, but the next three generations. The people who are lending the Money have no care for Ireland or its people, they want to save the rotten avaricious Banks, or the Money they have invested. They are waging economic war on this country, and are uncon, cerned about how many casualities, they cause. Those casualities will be our children and grandchildren

[Declan]

Holy Jaysus these guys are deluded
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSWLA902620101124?feedType=RSS&feedName=financialsSector&rpc=43

6% interest 

[seafoid]

After listening to the government and skimming through the budget, there was a word that was missing that I think we all wanted to hear.

That word was 'bank'

I'll put my hand up admit I am (fortunately) fairly well paid and short term work prospects look good (who knows after that). This budget will impact on my family but it appears to me to impact on the lower paid a lot more. While I have argued here that only half of all workers here pay tax and more need to start paying tax, this plan still seems to be a long way right of centre.

That means our extreme right wing ideology screwed up completely, needed a socialist bailout, which will now be paid for by putting apparently more of the burden on the lower paid/traditional left. Additionally those  traditionally most likely to march are among the hardest hit, e.g. students, pensioners, union members and the unemployed. IMHO this will end in tears.

Aside from that we have had no investigation into what happened. We haven't been told why we the citizens are responsible for picking up the tab for the banks failures. We haven't even had a single apology and not one person has accepted any blame for anything whatsoever.

Personally I can only accept austerity in parallel with complete transparency and accountability.

I think that says it all.
And now to the banks , is e cas mo bhuartha

Via FT, RBS not too convinced.

"We believe the quoted banks need Eur16bn of capital and Eur38bn of a funding lifeline or Eur54bn in total from the EU/IMF. We have made an allowance for further deposit outflows on the back of the instability of this past week and the multinotch sovereign downgrade by S&P and imminent similar action from Moody's. This assumes the balance sheet stands still and that there is no further terming out of the balance sheet. If we include these two items then the funding component of the quoted banks needs would rise materially."

The people can't be expected to take any more of this. It's not their war. 

[demusicman]

http://youtu.be/qtivSTZrezc
?

[FL/MAYO]

Bust Is Better Than a Bailout for Irish

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-23/bust-is-better-than-a-bailout-for-irish-patient-matthew-lynn.html