The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

lads €85 billion ain't enough believe it or not. We are fubared beyond repair yet the govt are willing to saddle us with debt for for ever. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's all over. There is no way we can afford to repay it.   

Would it be beter to default now before we borrow another 85bn or borrow it, spend it then default?

It's something like €240 billion we need Zap, so I believe that 1) the budget must be scuppered immediately (along with the '4-year-plan'), 2) an election is called and a new Government is installed, then 3) we renegotiate with IMF/ECB on a carte blanche basis where we burn the bondholders of the decrepit Irish banks (as well as restructuring the banks, etc.) -- this means we'll need to show a bit of backbone, but it will also show we won't roll over like the current useless shower are.

[Zapatista]

lads €85 billion ain't enough believe it or not. We are fubared beyond repair yet the govt are willing to saddle us with debt for for ever. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's all over. There is no way we can afford to repay it.   

Would it be beter to default now before we borrow another 85bn or borrow it, spend it then default?

It's something like €240 billion we need Zap, so I believe that 1) the budget must be scuppered immediately (along with the '4-year-plan'), 2) an election is called and a new Government is installed, then 3) we renegotiate with IMF/ECB on a carte blanche basis where we burn the bondholders of the decrepit Irish banks (as well as restructuring the banks, etc.) -- this means we'll need to show a bit of backbone, but it will also show we won't roll over like the current useless shower are.

That's going against the advice of the Government, the main opposition, the EU and the IMF Maybe we should treat it like Lisbon and if we get it wrong we'll get another go? Oh, no choice, sorry.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

That's going against the advice of the Government, the main opposition, the EU and the IMF Maybe we should treat it like Lisbon and if we get it wrong we'll get another go? Oh, no choice, sorry.

The EU (& IMF) are terrified that we might default, because it will be the European banks that will take the hit. That's the only weapon we have, but it's a powerful one.

[Shamrock Shore]

Lads. This is not the endgame.

The endgame could be the collapse of the euro and subsequent worldwide financial meltdown. I am at a loss to work out what that will entail. The next Teeshop better have a plan to circulate a new Irish pound at a minute's notice.

Anyone hear the hooves of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse coming over the horizon?

[ONeill]

What business of mine is it.
So long they don't take the yam.
From my savouring mouth?

[thejuice]

yep, the economies of the future will have to be more locally focused. The Euro wont last.

Reliance will be the buzz word of the day, resilient economy, resilient eco-systems, resilient energy systems. Less focus on efficiency which usually pares energy, income and ideas from one source. Resilience chooses many sources all contributing and not just the single most efficient, and if one source diminishes we are still able to carry on.

Anyway that might be the new paradigm, which promises no booms but meaningful and responsible growth. We might need to reconnect to the land and what it provides and not just the most profitable crop but rather a more diverse range. The collapse of economies, coupled with diminishing oil reserves (if you believe thats whats happening) means imported foods are going to be too expensive soon anyway.

Yes I've been following the Transition Town movement, it has some answers and offers a way of coping with austerity. Perhaps co-ops need to be formed to buy land or perhaps rented. I know such a thing will be unpalatable to many, working outdoors and growing their own food might seem as something from a past we'd thought we'd left behind or for a different class of people.

Transition Towns have also reintroduced local currency's mostly just as reminder that people can get what they need locally.

http://www.transitionnetwork.org/

[An Gaeilgoir]

Lads. This is not the endgame.

The endgame could be the collapse of the euro and subsequent worldwide financial meltdown. I am at a loss to work out what that will entail. The next Teeshop better have a plan to circulate a new Irish pound at a minute's notice.

Anyone hear the hooves of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse coming over the horizon?

Been speaking to a few people today about this very issue. If the Euro went tomorrow what would happen? Some of the lads at work have taken all of their savings out of their banks/ Credit Unions and converted half into Sterling and half into Dollars. is this a good idea or not?

[INDIANA]

Lads. This is not the endgame.

The endgame could be the collapse of the euro and subsequent worldwide financial meltdown. I am at a loss to work out what that will entail. The next Teeshop better have a plan to circulate a new Irish pound at a minute's notice.

Anyone hear the hooves of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse coming over the horizon?

Fellas dont believe all the bullshit. Banks are not run by currencies. Ireland should default on its loans. Id prefer to default then pay 7%.
Argentina's currency went to the wall and the country is fine. If the fate of the euro is in our hands we are in a unique bargaining position. Tell them to shove their 7% for starters and re-necogiate. Its not our fault they lent billions to Irish banks on poor credit terms and never checked whether they were good for it.

Would be no harm if the euro failed and we got our own currency back. Its been a feckin disaster of a currency anyway.
As Homer Simpson would say- "Default the two nicest words in the English language"

[Zapatista]

We should just default and then adopt the sterling as te currency.

[Declan]

Isn't it amazing that not one of our public representatives has mentioned this yet - Well I can't recall anyone unless Joe Higgins has said something ?

[Zapatista]

I think some of them thought there was another way out before the IMF/ECB loan was applied for based on the incorrect figures they were given.

[Declan]

Jaysus folks I just saw these figures that Brina Lucey mentioned on Vincent Browne last night

Existing National Debt of circa €90billion;
Bailout debt to be incurred over the next 3 years €85billion
Bonds falling due to be paid by Ireland in next 3 years €23billion
ECB funding put into our banks circa €100billion
Irish Central Bank money put into our banks in the last 2 weeks after the ECB cried no more, circa €30billion.

Circa €330billion all told.

Mother Of Divine

[seafoid]

lads €85 billion ain't enough believe it or not. We are fubared beyond repair yet the govt are willing to saddle us with debt for for ever. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's all over. There is no way we can afford to repay it.   

Imagine you owned a box that someone put in €10 every year.
Imagine they were putting money in that box for a long long time.
Imagine they were doing that every year since the beginning of the Universe.
It still wouldn't cover our new national debt.

The 120 bn put into the banks recently isn't going to be part of the national debt. The idea is to replace it with private funding when the bailout manages to bring the bond yield down. If this bailout doesn't do the trick then it will be time to put AIB into insolvency and divvy up its assets to pay for the repayment of depositors. 330bn in debt is just unsustainable

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Been speaking to a few people today about this very issue. If the Euro went tomorrow what would happen? Some of the lads at work have taken all of their savings out of their banks/ Credit Unions and converted half into Sterling and half into Dollars. is this a good idea or not?

I'd say that whilst Germany are still at the centre of the Eurozone that's somewhat premature -- Sterling and the USD aren't particularly robust in themselves (because the associated economies aren't particularly robust), and they're only looking so good at the minute because of the cataclysmic economic ructions within the PIGS.

If Germany were to unhook themselves from the euro, however, that'd be a whole different ballgame.

[INDIANA]

Declan we're missing the most important point of all.

10 year German bonds are currently at 2.5%. I've no doubt these feckers are borrowing to buy these, selling them to us at 7% and making a nice bloody margin. We're been taking for a ride and its not a ride that involves Pamela Anderson.

Just Default- will have no effect on deposits. We cant pay back that amount anyway. As said adopting Sterling wouldnt be a bad move. They are literally having kittens at present because their export market could collapse.