The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[Bogball XV]

Prime Time announcing 'dramatic plans for our banks that will affect all of our lives'

Ill keep you posted.

going to try and beat you to it, if i understand what they're telling me - did they briefly talk about it on the news?  I was watching football on the laptop - didn't sound overly stupid though from what i think i maybe heard.

[muppet]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1123/economy.html

€85bn fund for banks and public finances
Updated: 21:23, Tuesday, 23 November 2010

The EU and the IMF will offer the Government an €85bn facility, which can be used to recapitalise the banks and fund the public finances.

Funding - Aimed at boosting confidence
Play

The European Union and the International Monetary Fund will offer the Government an €85bn facility, which can be used to recapitalise the banks and fund the public finances.
The package would see the level of capital in the Irish banks being increased from eight to 12% in a move to bolster confidence of depositors in the financial system.
Last week the IMF and EU team began intensive meetings with the Central Bank to reshape the financial system for the future.
Their plan would boost levels of capital in banks, to cushion against future loan losses. It is a significant figure by international standards.
It is aimed at boosting confidence - particularly for depositors who are also covered by the EU back guarantee.
The money will come from an €85bn facility provided by the EU and IMF and the remainder will be used to run the country on a day-to-day basis perhaps over a two to three year period.
While the authorities are reluctant to fully nationalise AIB it will need significant new funds. One option is that the State will be left with an 99.9% stake the bank in return for the new capital.
It is also going to take some bad loans out of its AIB's UK subsidiary and try to sell the division again. Bank of Ireland, currently 36% State owned, would become majority Government controlled, and authorities are hopeful of selling off EBS quickly.
The size Irish banks will be significantly reduced as blocks of loans would be sold off.
Investors would be offered loss-sharing arrangement with the State.
It is likely a formal letter of intent will be issued by the IMF to the Government early next week containing final details.
The International Monetary Fund earlier said talks between it and Ireland were moving forward quickly, but it was up to the Irish Government to make the necessary political decisions.
The IMF's First Deputy Managing Director, John Lipsky, made the comment in New York in response to questions by reporters about the impact on the negotiations of growing political instability in Ireland.
Mr Lipsky said the IMF's work in Ireland was technical, not political.
EU Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn said it is essential that Ireland passes the Budget in the timeline foreseen, adding this would be best done sooner than later.
The Commissioner was speaking following a confidential briefing with Irish MEPs at the European Parliament in Strasbourg, which lasted for just over an hour.
Mr Rehn said every day that is lost increases uncertainty and increases the economic and social cost.
He added that Ireland needs to adopt the Budget, get it out of the way and move on.
Mr Rehn also said that while he did not have a position on domestic politics, political stability is important.
However Socialist Party MEP Joe Higgins walked out of the meeting after just two minutes.
Mr Higgins said that the information was only being shared on the basis it was confidential and would not be divulged. He said not sharing the information would be a betrayal.
For many of the MEPs at the meeting the key issue was keeping Ireland's 12.5% corporate tax rate off the table.
Minister for Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Innovation Batt O'Keeffe told the Dáil that Ireland's corporation tax of 12.5% is critical, and is but one of a number of factors that makes Ireland attractive to multinational companies.
He was speaking this evening on a Fine Gael Private Members' Motion on the need to defend Ireland's corporation tax rate.
Mr O'Keeffe also said a move away from the existing corporation tax rate would have a significant negative effect on existing and potential investments.
Meanwhile, Managing Director of the International Monetary Fund Dominique Strauss-Kahn was commenting on Ireland and Greece.
Speaking during a Swiss Television interview Mr Strauss-Kahn's message was: 'We must tighten our belts.'
Referring to the crisis in Ireland and Greece he said: 'The idea that you may live long beyond his means is a crazy idea, even if the causes are different in these two countries.'
The director of the IMF estimates that these countries 'in one way or another we have to tighten their belts to get back to something that is bearable ... Those who are in a weak position are those who get in trouble first.
'That is why we need to preserve as much as possible social spending. We cannot continue like this.
'The solidarity of European countries should avoid the collapse of some states, but it requires rather drastic economic measures, and once again it will be the weakest countries that will suffer most', he said.
December Budget
Earlier, it emerged that Taoiseach Brian Cowen telephoned the leaders of Fine Gael and Labour last night to stress the importance of the Budget being passed on 7 December.
It is understood that Mr Cowen did not directly ask for support for the Budget, but did offer access to officials in the Department of Finance and other Government departments to underline the necessity of passing it.
The Government's view is that support from the IMF and the European Union depends on the measures included in the Budget being passed.
Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey said this morning it was imperative that the Budget is passed and that the Opposition gives as much support as possible.
The Cabinet met this morning to sign off on its four-year economic plan, which is due to be published tomorrow.
Last night, Mr Cowen said he would seek dissolution of the Dáil after the current budgetary process is complete in the New Year.
He made the announcement after the Green Party called for a General Election to be held in January.
Euro 'at stake' in bailout
Elsewhere, Germany's finance minister has said the fate of the shared European currency was at stake in the proposed bailout of Ireland.
Speaking in the German parliament, Wolfgang Schaeuble said: 'It's our common currency that's at stake.'
Mr Schaeuble said Germany must take responsibility 'otherwise there will be untold economic and social consequences for our country'.
Luxembourg's foreign minister has said Ireland should not have to raise its corporate tax as a condition for receiving the bailout.
Jean Asselborn said: 'The situation that Ireland finds itself in is already difficult enough. We should be careful not to strangle Ireland. Ireland has already lost so much economically.
'And if we take away every attraction Ireland has for inward investment then things will only get worse. And the worse it gets, the more expensive will it get for Europe in the end.'
Elsewhere, Greece has won approval for a new tranche of rescue funding but the IMF and EU prescribed even tougher action on tax evasion, and waste in health care and state companies to earn another payout.
They also warned that Greek wages were too high and said the country, saved from imminent insolvency in May, faced potential problems in repaying on time although solutions were available in that case.
The expert auditor from the IMF Poul Thomsen said: 'The programme is at a crossroad.'

[muppet]

Prime Time announcing 'dramatic plans for our banks that will affect all of our lives'

Ill keep you posted.

I don't think there is anything particularly new there. Please correct me if I am wrong.

This looks like an announcement for the sake of an announcement. Are they worried about lack of confidence in the very short term?

[muppet]

Prime Time highlighting the 'effective nationalisation' of the Banks. AIB to become 99.9% Government owned.

[muppet]

"If we have a rate of 5% on our total national debt it will cost €5,000 a year for each worker" - Lucey

[sammymaguire]

I hate Leo's voice

[muppet]

Ok I put my hands up. Nothing of note on Prime Time. 

Maybe there is another long night with morning announcements on the cards. RTE should have their arses kicked though given how delicate the banking situation is.

[Bogball XV]

The European Union and the International Monetary Fund will offer the Government an €85bn facility, which can be used to recapitalise the banks and fund the public finances.
The package would see the level of capital in the Irish banks being increased from eight to 12% in a move to bolster confidence of depositors in the financial system.
Last week the IMF and EU team began intensive meetings with the Central Bank to reshape the financial system for the future.
Their plan would boost levels of capital in banks, to cushion against future loan losses. It is a significant figure by international standards.
It is aimed at boosting confidence - particularly for depositors who are also covered by the EU back guarantee.
The money will come from an €85bn facility provided by the EU and IMF and the remainder will be used to run the country on a day-to-day basis perhaps over a two to three year period.
While the authorities are reluctant to fully nationalise AIB it will need significant new funds. One option is that the State will be left with an 99.9% stake the bank in return for the new capital.
It is also going to take some bad loans out of its AIB's UK subsidiary and try to sell the division again. Bank of Ireland, currently 36% State owned, would become majority Government controlled, and authorities are hopeful of selling off EBS quickly.
The size Irish banks will be significantly reduced as blocks of loans would be sold off.
Investors would be offered loss-sharing arrangement with the State.
It is likely a formal letter of intent will be issued by the IMF to the Government early next week containing final details.h lasted for just over an hour.

There's a few new things above, i'm a bit unclear about them, but it seems that the troika have come up with what they see as a way to sort the banks, i don't think that the bolstering of reserves from 8% to 12% will be enough to attract non-ecb money, but these guys are experts, maybe i should defer to their better judgement, maybe i should question if they really realise the extent of the losses still to come?

Bart seems almost apologetic on the telly tonight, where's the famous ff arrogance?  Maybe I'll vote for them after all, anything to keep leo out of the cabinet!

[highorlow]

For conspiracy theorists everywhere - Good man Jim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ing8xH3Qj-k&feature=player_embedded

Jim has too much time on his hands God bless him.

[Declan]

lads €85 billion ain't enough believe it or not. We are fubared beyond repair yet the govt are willing to saddle us with debt for for ever. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's all over. There is no way we can afford to repay it.     

[muppet]

lads €85 billion ain't enough believe it or not. We are fubared beyond repair yet the govt are willing to saddle us with debt for for ever. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's all over. There is no way we can afford to repay it.   

Imagine you owned a box that someone put in €10 every year.
Imagine they were putting money in that box for a long long time.
Imagine they were doing that every year since the beginning of the Universe.
It still wouldn't cover our new national debt.

[sammymaguire]

lads €85 billion ain't enough believe it or not. We are fubared beyond repair yet the govt are willing to saddle us with debt for for ever. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's all over. There is no way we can afford to repay it.   

Imagine you owned a box that someone put in €10 every year.
Imagine they were putting money in that box for a long long time.
Imagine they were doing that every year since the beginning of the Universe.
It still wouldn't cover our new national debt.

Bono has ALOT of money hasn't he?

[Bogball XV]

lads €85 billion ain't enough believe it or not. We are fubared beyond repair yet the govt are willing to saddle us with debt for for ever. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's all over. There is no way we can afford to repay it.   

Imagine you owned a box that someone put in €10 every year.
Imagine they were putting money in that box for a long long time.
Imagine they were doing that every year since the beginning of the Universe.It still wouldn't cover our new national debt.

you mean each and every one of the last 12,000 years since the world was created (i guess the universe came about at the same time??)

[Peter Solan the Great]

To: The citizens of the Republic of Ireland:

In light of your absolute incompetence in running your own affairs, by continually electing the same shower of useless, greedy and corrupt politicians, the shocking financial crisis of the last 3 years but most of all your complete inability to bring anyone to account for this mess or take to the streets to demonstrate your anger, Her Majesty feels compelled to take immediate action.

You have had 88 years to get this right but have made a complete hames of it. You cannot blame the mainland for this one.

Additionally, because of your total fascination with supporting English football teams (and 1 Scottish), and almost total failure to support the Airtricity league. This is an obvious expression of desire to be British.

The final straw was the announcement of Prince William's forthcoming marriage appearing on the front page of all major Irish newspapers and headline TV news on the very day Europe were trying to finalise the takeover of the Irish economy. This clearly demonstrates a sub-conscious desire to be British (and NOT European!).

Therefore, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, and effective immediately, Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over the Irish Free State.

Your new prime minister, David Cameron, will appoint a governor for Ireland immediately.

Her majesty's government is extremely concerned that Ireland has already given up it's sovereignty to Brussels and Strasbourg, the European Central Bank, the International Monetary Fund and anyone else you can borrow a few quid off so is taking this action to protect both the people of Ireland and to restore the British Isles to it's proper status.

Dail Eireann and Seanad Eirann will be disbanded. A questionnaire may be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed. All current TD's will be immediately re-deployed, some arrested and tried for treason.

To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

1. The Irish language is not banned, but will no longer be part of the school curriculum, no longer share equal status with English and all signs in Irish are to be removed immediately. They are pointless. TG4 will be disbanded
The word(s) feck, fecker, fecking are banned – you are not fooling anyone.

2. RTE will be disbanded, you all watch BBC, ITV and Sky Sports anyway. The money saved will pay for Road Signs.

3. March 17th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.

4. Bacon and Cabbage are hereby banned – no one likes it. Similarly, Abrakebabra is banned immediately and will be replaced with handily placed kebab vans within each district. Indian restaurants will also open until 4am.

5. You will re-learn your original national anthem, God Save The Queen.

6. Road Safety:
a) Gay Byrne is sacked as chairman of the Road Safety Authority. Whoever thought the smuggest individual ever to grace a TV screens could possibly help?

b) All major traffic light intersections will be replaced with roundabouts

c) The imperial Mile measurement is to be re-introduced with immediate effect.

d) All learner drivers are banned from driving alone with immediate effect.

e) All African driving licenses are hereby immediately revoked.

f) All persons who received a full driving license in the "amnesty" are also banned from driving until they sit the test.

g) A new Garda Traffic division is to be established to patrol shopping centre car parks for cases of extremely bad parking and driving the wrong way round the car parks. Fine of £100 and 3 points
7. ALL tribunals will cease immediately. The money saved will be spent on new easily visible street signs.

8. DRINK: The price of a pint of beer is to be immediately re-aligned with UK prices - £2.50 a pint.
The restricted number of pub licenses is to be removed immediately, and a Wetherspoon's will be opened in every town centre throughout Ireland, along with an O'Neill's proper Irish pub.
Guinness is to be rationed to 3 pints of day per person. It is for the greater good.

9. The Euro will be phased out over the next 6 months and replaced with the Queen's shilling.

10. Dressing up 8 year old girls in wedding dresses is also considered an extremely unhealthy activity.

11. You will cease playing all Gaelic games. All GAA facilities will be handed over to the English cricket authorities. Cricket will become mandatory in all schools.

12. Please tell us what happened to Shergar..

13. An inland revenue agent from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1949).

14. Talking of 1949, Ireland will be immediately re-admitted to the Commonwealth and therefore allowed access to commonwealth country trade markets but more importantly have a better chance of winning medals at a major sporting event.

God save the Queen

[Zapatista]

lads €85 billion ain't enough believe it or not. We are fubared beyond repair yet the govt are willing to saddle us with debt for for ever. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's all over. There is no way we can afford to repay it.   

Would it be beter to default now before we borrow another 85bn or borrow it, spend it then default?