The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[An Gaeilgoir]

2.Why aren't we out on the streets demanding a default on the debts. Are we too afraid to make a scene. Same when all the other scandals hit, the church/FF corruption/Lisbon re-vote. Are we too worried we might look like ejits for standing up for something.

Buyers remorse. We voted in the clowns. Or 44% of us did.

and a quick look at some of the threads from the 2007 election shows that there were plenty of willing voters on here too!

My personal opinion on making a scene, ALL protest in Ireland are hi-jacked by some extreme wing or other, a small riot follows, the organisers of the original protest are undermined and everyone is back to square one. We have the TEEU instructing their members to hold a day of disobedience (what does this mean), while thousands of their members in the private sector are been made redundant and their public sector members are been protected by out dated work practices. The TEEU were happy enough to run in to Govt. buildings during the good times while they turned a blind eye to rogue operators paying lads a tenner an hour on state funded projects. However if there was a people's movement protest which wouldn't be taken over by unions, eirigi etc. then i think it would work, like what was held in the North during the troubles, but no doubt beardy from SIPTU would end up on the stage "big bad employers, blah, blah, blah" and the usual senario would develop again.

[seafoid]

2.Why aren't we out on the streets demanding a default on the debts. Are we too afraid to make a scene. Same when all the other scandals hit, the church/FF corruption/Lisbon re-vote. Are we too worried we might look like ejits for standing up for something.

Buyers remorse. We voted in the clowns. Or 44% of us did.

and a quick look at some of the threads from the 2007 election shows that there were plenty of willing voters on here too!

how do i find that thread?

[seafoid]

Austerity alone won't work

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0aa791c4-f6e3-11df-8feb-00144feab49a.html#axzz16730s4lW

Portugal's state deficit widened in the first 10 months of 2010, according to government figures showing that austerity measures designed to ease financial market concerns have so far had little impact on public spending.

According to government figures, Portugal's core state deficit rose to €11.885bn for the first 10 months of 2010, up €215m ($292bn) on the same period last year. A 4.6 per cent increase in tax revenue proved insufficient to offset a 2.8 per cent increase in state spending.

The government said such state spending had increased despite a 17.3 per cent cut in public investment and an increase in value-added tax, largely because of a 4.9 per cent increase in the cost of interest paid on public debt.

[Declan]

For conspiracy theorists everywhere- Bar the emphasis on the "british Empire bits" it's analysis of the actual bailout is interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu9_Gqygn98

[Declan]

And here's an update on the Irish banking sector:
Irish bank shares fell again today 24 hours after the government announced restructuring was on the way and the governor of the central bank confirming the Irish banks are "for sale".
Shares in 36%-state owned Bank of Ireland fell 23% to 30c giving it a market capitalisation of around €1.77bn (£1.5bn), half what it was a month ago. Allied Irish Banks, whose government ownership will rise to around 95% after a planned rights issue, traded down 13% to 35c. Irish Life & Permanent, the only Irish-owned bank to so far not have received any state aid, fell 4.5% to €0.80, following a 27% drop yesterday.
"The market is on its way to deciding there is no equity left in the banks," said Gary McCarthy, head of Quest, the quantitative research unit of broker Collins Stewart.
He said "the best thing could be to remove one big bank, such as AIB, from the state balance sheet".

[Evil Genius]

For conspiracy theorists everywhere- Bar the emphasis on the "british Empire bits" it's analysis of the actual bailout is interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu9_Gqygn98

You say "interesting", I say "a nut job".

Just read the first comment below, to get a flavour of the people who subscribe to this sort of crap:
Sir Cabhan: "Not entirely sure how accurate this is, but she says some interesting things - BUT she is in denial of the Anglo-American Alliance. It's NOT the British Empire as such; it is an Anglo-American Empire encompassing the Imperial dreams of the European Royal Families with their surrogate bloodlines in the USA - ALL US Presidents bar one are descended from George the Third - that is no accident"

Anyhow, I kept thinking that presenter was going to end her spiel with: "And now back to Jon Stewart in 'The Daily Show' studio". 

P.S. On the theme of "Nothing is Ever as it Seems", for all that the presenter looks and sounds female (technically, at least), am I the only one to wonder whether she isn't, in fact, concealing a   c o c k   somewhere about her person?
If you're having difficulty with that concept, just think "Rafael Nadal in a Wig" 

[Declan]

The facts re the banks  etc and that we are being asked to bail them out is correct - I did say it was for conspiracy theorists but don't let the assumptions they jump to cloud this element of what's happening

[Declan]

Robbed from P.ie

Apparently, the following is a live news feed from a Bloomberg terminal. (Source: propertypin.com)

El-Arian is a serious big beast in global finance, and I've long respected his analysis on any topic.



14:50 *RESTRUCTURING OF IRISH DEBT NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED: EL-ERIAN
14:49 *WORST THING FOR EUROPE IS GERMANY TO BE CONTAMINATED: EL-ERIAN
14:47 *BANK RUN WOULD HURT PROSPERITY FOR A GENERATION, EL-ERIAN SAYS
14:46 *DEPOSITS LEAVINNG THE IRISH BANKING SYSTEM, EL-ERIAN SAYS
14:46 *IRELAND RISKS A `MAJOR BANK RUN,' PIMCO'S EL-ERIAN SAYS
14:45 *EUROPE NEEDS TO QUICKLY CALM THINGS IN IRELAND, EL-ERIAN SAYS
14:42 *PIMCO'S MOHAMED EL-ERIAN COMMENTS IN ON BLOOMBERG RADIO
14:41 *PIMCO'S EL-ERIAN SAYS IRISH BANKING SYSTEM 'BLEEDING DEPOSITS'
14:40 *PIMCO'S EL-ERIAN SAYS IRELAND 'GETTING CLOSE TO MAJOR BANK RUN'

[seafoid]

Robbed from P.ie

Apparently, the following is a live news feed from a Bloomberg terminal. (Source: propertypin.com)

El-Arian is a serious big beast in global finance, and I've long respected his analysis on any topic.



14:50 *RESTRUCTURING OF IRISH DEBT NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED: EL-ERIAN
14:49 *WORST THING FOR EUROPE IS GERMANY TO BE CONTAMINATED: EL-ERIAN
14:47 *BANK RUN WOULD HURT PROSPERITY FOR A GENERATION, EL-ERIAN SAYS
14:46 *DEPOSITS LEAVINNG THE IRISH BANKING SYSTEM, EL-ERIAN SAYS
14:46 *IRELAND RISKS A `MAJOR BANK RUN,' PIMCO'S EL-ERIAN SAYS
14:45 *EUROPE NEEDS TO QUICKLY CALM THINGS IN IRELAND, EL-ERIAN SAYS
14:42 *PIMCO'S MOHAMED EL-ERIAN COMMENTS IN ON BLOOMBERG RADIO
14:41 *PIMCO'S EL-ERIAN SAYS IRISH BANKING SYSTEM 'BLEEDING DEPOSITS'
14:40 *PIMCO'S EL-ERIAN SAYS IRELAND 'GETTING CLOSE TO MAJOR BANK RUN'

So much for the great bank guarantee.

[muppet]

Michael somers was right in the middle of the mess

Did the plank ask him about NTMA and them moving monies out of Irish Bank stocks?

In particular not putting deposits from the NTMA into Anglo despite alleged pressure to do so..

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/pressure-on-cowen-to-reveal-what-he-knew-months-before-bank-guarantee-2410676.html

[Declan]

For conspiracy theorists everywhere - Good man Jim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ing8xH3Qj-k&feature=player_embedded

Getting interesting yet our muppets continuing with the charade
German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the prospect of serial European bailouts was "exceptionally serious," sending the euro to a three-month low as officials estimated saving Ireland will cost 85 billion euros ($114 billion).

Irish bonds dropped and the premium that investors demand to hold Spanish debt over German counterparts jumped to a euro- era record as the relief rallies triggered by Ireland's Nov. 21 aid request evaporated. Traders are now betting the turmoil that started in Greece a year ago will spread to Portugal and Spain.

"The markets currently have virtually zero confidence that the bailout in Ireland will solve the European crisis," Charles Diebel and David Page, fixed-income strategists at Lloyds TSB Corporate Markets in London, said in a note today. "With markets effectively in a position to dictate policy, the risk is that the credibility crisis shifts to more sizeable European Union countries and thereby poses a greater risk to the system as a whole."

[Declan]

This is going to get bumpy

Ireland Risking Bank Run Without Remedy, Pimco's El-Erian Says: Tom Keene - Bloomberg - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-17/asset-purchases-needed-with-fed-failing-on-mandates-pimco-s-clarida-says.html

El-Erian: "What You Advise Your Sister In Ireland Now Is That You - http://www.businessinsider.com/el-erian-irish-banks-2010-11

"One of the world's biggest bond dealers and former deputy director of the IMF said there could be a run on Irish banks. And he predicted ordinary deposit holders would take flight soon.

"What you advise your sister in Ireland now is that you'd say take your money out of an Irish bank and put it in another bank headquartered elsewhere," said Pacific Investment Management Co (Pimco)'s Mohamed A El-Elrian. "That's what happened in Argentina and in emerging countries. People worry about their savings."

"The numbers so far have shown that the Irish banking system has been bleeding deposits," he told Bloomberg Radio. "It will seriously undermine the prosperity of this country for a generation. The first thing they must do is execute on what they announced this weekend – which is a big external aid package and steps by the Irish government."

[Bogball XV]

This is going to get bumpy

Ireland Risking Bank Run Without Remedy, Pimco's El-Erian Says: Tom Keene - Bloomberg - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-17/asset-purchases-needed-with-fed-failing-on-mandates-pimco-s-clarida-says.html

El-Erian: "What You Advise Your Sister In Ireland Now Is That You - http://www.businessinsider.com/el-erian-irish-banks-2010-11

"One of the world's biggest bond dealers and former deputy director of the IMF said there could be a run on Irish banks. And he predicted ordinary deposit holders would take flight soon.

"What you advise your sister in Ireland now is that you'd say take your money out of an Irish bank and put it in another bank headquartered elsewhere," said Pacific Investment Management Co (Pimco)'s Mohamed A El-Elrian. "That's what happened in Argentina and in emerging countries. People worry about their savings."

"The numbers so far have shown that the Irish banking system has been bleeding deposits," he told Bloomberg Radio. "It will seriously undermine the prosperity of this country for a generation. The first thing they must do is execute on what they announced this weekend – which is a big external aid package and steps by the Irish government."

If the IMF/EU money is in place, why would there be a run on irish banks?

The euro is 1.335 from 1.375 odd yesterday morning and 1.35 odd this morning.

[bcarrier]

This is going to get bumpy

Ireland Risking Bank Run Without Remedy, Pimco's El-Erian Says: Tom Keene - Bloomberg - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-17/asset-purchases-needed-with-fed-failing-on-mandates-pimco-s-clarida-says.html

El-Erian: "What You Advise Your Sister In Ireland Now Is That You - http://www.businessinsider.com/el-erian-irish-banks-2010-11

"One of the world's biggest bond dealers and former deputy director of the IMF said there could be a run on Irish banks. And he predicted ordinary deposit holders would take flight soon.

"What you advise your sister in Ireland now is that you'd say take your money out of an Irish bank and put it in another bank headquartered elsewhere," said Pacific Investment Management Co (Pimco)'s Mohamed A El-Elrian. "That's what happened in Argentina and in emerging countries. People worry about their savings."

"The numbers so far have shown that the Irish banking system has been bleeding deposits," he told Bloomberg Radio. "It will seriously undermine the prosperity of this country for a generation. The first thing they must do is execute on what they announced this weekend – which is a big external aid package and steps by the Irish government."

If the IMF/EU money is in place, why would there be a run on irish banks?

The euro is 1.335 from 1.375 odd yesterday morning and 1.35 odd this morning.

The IMF/EU money is contingent on budget being passed. There has to be some uncertainty about this and events in Portugal and Spain might get ahead of the drawdown. There is some risk to depositors though probably small ( unless ECB pulls the plug ).

[muppet]

Prime Time announcing 'dramatic plans for our banks that will affect all of our lives'

Ill keep you posted.