The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[MCMLX]

(having worked hammer and tongs behind the scenes to put an alternative strategy in place, that doesn't crucify the taxpayer), with everything that that would entail (such as public ownership of AIB & BOI, etc.).

Can the taxpayer actually stand up and say I`m not hving this, other than at the polling station?

How safe is anyones money in a southern bank? I have 2 southern accounts, is it time to withdraw the money quietly and take it north?

[muppet]

The danger is that it's not over yet, that non NAMA lending in BoI and AIB throws up another few bn of losses. NAMA is the most that that the country could manage. If it is insufficient then all bets are off.   Lenihan to be fair to him is only doing what he is being told to do. If the implosion of the property bubble gets beyond a certain size there is very little any government can do. What I find most  objectionable about Lenihan is the hounding of people like Morgan Kelly who called this right from the start.

Noonan has repeatedly asked what advice did the Government act on when they created the guarantee. Colm McCarthy last night (betraying his loyalty) said that there was no piece of paper saying that they shouldn't do it. Noonan asked the right question saying 'what piece of paper advised them to do it', McCarthy seemed to signal there was none but of course O'Callaghan missed the significance of this and moved on.

[Bogball XV]

As I said before there's no point in defaulting, it's too late, it would just involve another huge legal battle that'd be lost, that or become international outcasts and live on our own island with no outside interaction - de valera's paradise.

They can default, but not whilst that guarantee is live, i.e., not until another 3 months have elapsed after last night's Dáil vote for continuation of same (for that period). But even then, they'd have to dissemble right up until a second after midnight on the date of expiry and then drop the bombshell that subordinated debt is up for review (having worked hammer and tongs behind the scenes to put an alternative strategy in place, that doesn't crucify the taxpayer), with everything that that would entail (such as public ownership of AIB & BOI, etc.).

true, it was the one saving grace back when the guarantee was announced that it was only for two years, back then i was naive enough to think that they'd have scrapped the guarantee at the end of that - the only thing is that as anglo has been nationalised, you'd have to find do a heap on legal work to figure out who is liable and to what extent the state is etc...  Still it could be an option.

Did ye hear Joan on there a minute ago, yer man Karl Whelan was about to answer the question  I posed earlier about what we do next, given that we need cuts and at the same time can't risk the destimulising effect.  Karl was winding up to answer and Joanie interjects with "we'll need to get people back working, there's 450K unemployed........"  Indeed Joanie, we all appreciate the sentiment, now shut the fcuk up and let's hear how.

[bcarrier]

Interesting developments in terms of my workload anyway - my Dublin secondment will be shorter than I'd imagined as they've raised the exposure floor from €5m to €20m.

That makes sense Rois......lawyers and valuers have been collecting fees from transfer of loans from one state institution Anglo to another in NAMA. It now looks like AIB is also virtually nationalised so the AIB/NAMA transfers also served no purpose ( except possibly forcing AIB to face reality).

There have been many mistakes but the inclusion of Anglo/INBS in the guarantee is by some distance the most costly.  ... When you are in a hole stop digging etc.

[Bogball XV]

The danger is that it's not over yet, that non NAMA lending in BoI and AIB throws up another few bn of losses. NAMA is the most that that the country could manage. If it is insufficient then all bets are off.   Lenihan to be fair to him is only doing what he is being told to do. If the implosion of the property bubble gets beyond a certain size there is very little any government can do. What I find most  objectionable about Lenihan is the hounding of people like Morgan Kelly who called this right from the start.

Noonan has repeatedly asked what advice did the Government act on when they created the guarantee. Colm McCarthy last night (betraying his loyalty) said that there was no piece of paper saying that they shouldn't do it. Noonan asked the right question saying 'what piece of paper advised them to do it', McCarthy seemed to signal there was none but of course O'Callaghan missed the significance of this and moved on.

did she though?  Her brother stood for FF last time round.

Big Jim

http://www.jimocallaghan.com/

[muppet]

The danger is that it's not over yet, that non NAMA lending in BoI and AIB throws up another few bn of losses. NAMA is the most that that the country could manage. If it is insufficient then all bets are off.   Lenihan to be fair to him is only doing what he is being told to do. If the implosion of the property bubble gets beyond a certain size there is very little any government can do. What I find most  objectionable about Lenihan is the hounding of people like Morgan Kelly who called this right from the start.

Noonan has repeatedly asked what advice did the Government act on when they created the guarantee. Colm McCarthy last night (betraying his loyalty) said that there was no piece of paper saying that they shouldn't do it. Noonan asked the right question saying 'what piece of paper advised them to do it', McCarthy seemed to signal there was none but of course O'Callaghan missed the significance of this and moved on.

did she though?  Her brother stood for FF last time round.

Big Jim

http://www.jimocallaghan.com/

That figures.

Don't tell MayoGodHelpUs.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

(having worked hammer and tongs behind the scenes to put an alternative strategy in place, that doesn't crucify the taxpayer), with everything that that would entail (such as public ownership of AIB & BOI, etc.).

Can the taxpayer actually stand up and say I`m not hving this, other than at the polling station?

How safe is anyones money in a southern bank? I have 2 southern accounts, is it time to withdraw the money quietly and take it north?

Nope, not really, the only option other than at the ballot-box is full scale revolution (again).

Re your deposits, they're safe I'd say, particularly with the guarantee in place, and even when it's not (in that the government will have a controlling stake) -- defaulting on deposits would be suicidal.

[Hereiam]

Is the credit union the best place for ur money at this moment in time

[MCMLX]

Is the credit union the best place for ur money at this moment in time

My local CU "banks" its money every day. 

[Bogball XV]

Nope, not really, the only option other than at the ballot-box is full scale revolution (again).

Re your deposits, they're safe I'd say, particularly with the guarantee in place, and even when it's not (in that the government will have a controlling stake) -- defaulting on deposits would be suicidal.

statutorily the govt set a limit of 100K on deposits, that was 2 weeks before the guarantee (and an expansion of that was all that was actually required instead of the guarantee).  Prior to that it had been 22K (or 90% thereof).

The thing is, who will actually be repaying it?  Will it be like bondholders pre-russian revolution who had to wait for 80 yrs to get their money!!

[Bogball XV]

Interesting developments in terms of my workload anyway - my Dublin secondment will be shorter than I'd imagined as they've raised the exposure floor from €5m to €20m.

That makes sense Rois......lawyers and valuers have been collecting fees from transfer of loans from one state institution Anglo to another in NAMA. It now looks like AIB is also virtually nationalised so the AIB/NAMA transfers also served no purpose ( except possibly forcing AIB to face reality).

There have been many mistakes but the inclusion of Anglo/INBS in the guarantee is by some distance the most costly.  ... When you are in a hole stop digging etc.

the large professional firms have been amongst the big winners in the NAMA debacle alright, it's no wonder they were cheerleading it.  Vested interests are never far from the surface in the irish economy.

[muppet]

Lenny is on Vincent Browne at 2305 apparently.

I wonder will he be again let away with denying that he has made a bad decision, that it is a disaster and promising to bring those responsible to 'justice'.

[Donnellys Hollow]

Vincent gave Lenihan both barrels anyway

[Zapatista]

Lenny is on Vincent Browne at 2305 apparently.

I wonder will he be again let away with denying that he has made a bad decision, that it is a disaster and promising to bring those responsible to 'justice'.

New poll out says he is favourite to replace Cowen.
I am gobsmacked at that. The man hasn't got a single sum or prediction right in 2 years. I will be paying for this mans stupidity for the rest of my working live and at the end of that I have a much reduced life style to reward me for all my hard work. Sick!
FF are not capable of Government. They are bleeding the people of this country to feed their fat zombies.

[muppet]

Lenny is on Vincent Browne at 2305 apparently.

I wonder will he be again let away with denying that he has made a bad decision, that it is a disaster and promising to bring those responsible to 'justice'.

New poll out says he is favourite to replace Cowen.
I am gobsmacked at that. The man hasn't got a single sum or prediction right in 2 years. I will be paying for this mans stupidity for the rest of my working live and at the end of that I have a much reduced life style to reward me for all my hard work. Sick!
FF are not capable of Government. They are bleeding the people of this country to feed their fat zombies.

We live in the celebrity era. People would vote for the likes Louis Walsh over say someone with a brain in his head.