The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[Hardy]

The Knowledge Economy is officially dead. Yesterday saw the birth of the Pillage Economy.

Perhaps the most depressing moment of all yesterday was the illustration, as mentioned above, that we deserve what we get from the people we elect as we listened to a dialogue of morons between Ned O'Keeffe and Michael Ring. As these two chimps were yelling "g'up the yard" at each other across the floor of our legislature, our elected leaders were trying to convince us that the world looks to model itself on how we conduct our affairs.

[seafoid]

The Knowledge Economy is officially dead. Yesterday saw the birth of the Pillage Economy.

Perhaps the most depressing moment of all yesterday was the illustration, as mentioned above, that we deserve what we get from the people we elect as we listened to a dialogue of morons between Ned O'Keeffe and Michael Ring. As these two chimps were yelling "g'up the yard" at each other across the floor of our legislature, our elected leaders were trying to convince us that the world looks to model itself on how we conduct our affairs.

there are other countries who are just as banjaxed, Hardy

Haldane said there had been permanent damage to the global economy caused by the banking crisis and that if all of it persisted the loss could be as high as $200tn , of which Britain's share would be £7.4tn."Banks would not have deep enough pockets to foot this bill. Assuming that a crisis occurs every 20 years, the systemic levy needed to recoup these crisis costs would be in excess of $1.5tn per year. The total market capitalisation of the largest global banks is only around $1.2tn. Fully internalising the output costs of financial crises would risk putting banks on the same trajectory as the dinosaurs, with the levy playing the role of the meteorite."http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/mar/30/andrew-haldane-break-up-banks

The UK simply can't afford another crisis or a deepening of this one.  Neither can the states.
The whole model of finance as we know it is far more dangerous than anyone in power is willing to admit. 

The finance sector has exploded over the last 20 years and any boom in those years has been down to excessive risk taking by the banks and houses of finance. In the real economy wages have not been growing in line with economic growth. Most of the growth of the last 10 years was illusory.

I read this book recently and really enjoyed it.

http://www.amazon.com/Great-Financial-Crisis-Causes-Consequences/dp/1583671846/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270031052&sr=8-1


"the book analyses the structural problems of U.S. capitalism in its chronic tendency toward stagnation rooted in inadequate business investment leading to slow growth, unemployment of labor, and low utilization of capital. This book makes the case that the excesses of financialization and the widening inequality of income distribution are themselves indirect effects of stagnation in the real economy"

Your average FF TD is not designed the kind of thinking that is now required on mainstream economics. It's like asking Neidin the donkey to run in the Gold Cup.

[Declan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV1lZMTCqf8&feature=related

I think George sums it up best

[muppet]

Your average FF TD is not designed the kind of thinking that is now required on mainstream economics. It's like asking Neidin the donkey to run in the Gold Cup.

And then betting the economy on him.

Then when he dies of old age at the start line blame 'Global Factors'.

Those who point to a good performance by Lenihan have a point. But any compliment fired in that direction also lands a derogatory blow on his predecessor, an Taoiseach not to mention those who served with him in previous cabinets. Harney's & McCreevy's ideology (remember we're 'closer to Boston than Berlin') was particularly sickening yet Lenihan still sits in cabinet with her. She seems to be as unsackable as any of the public servants she despises.

[Hardy]

Your average FF TD is not designed the kind of thinking that is now required on mainstream economics. It's like asking Neidin the donkey to run in the Gold Cup.

Good analogy. This particular Neidín (O'Keffe) seems to have entered himself in the race and he and Michael Ring are plodding around a lap behind the field, kicking and biting at each other, oblivious to the mocking of the crowd and the mockery they're making of the occasion. 

[muppet]

http://www.shane-ross.ie/archives/174/sean-quinn-we-salute-you/

Sean Quinn: We Salute You!
Published February 5th, 2007 in Health, VHI and BUPA
State monopolies are on the run.

It is here, in the new Ireland, that we have bred fresh business heroes such as Sean Quinn.
Last week, Sean Quinn bought Bupa in a lightning deal. He thus dealt the would-be state monopoly VHI a series of blows:

Blow number one: Sean Quinn, entrepreneur, was about to challenge VHI head-to-head.
Blow number two: Quinn was starting today. Bupa's efficient operation would continue seamlessly. Vincent's hopes that thousands of Bupa customers would be marooned without an insurer were dashed. The delicious prospect of panic-stricken Bupa punters diving into the arms of the nanny state's VHI had vanished overnight. Sean had bought Bupa's entire book. Competition was back - this time in spades.
Blow number three: Sean was promising to freeze all Bupa's prices for a year. VHI's are set to increase. Such nefarious activity is known as competition. It should be outlawed.
Blow number four: Quinn's initiative was probably within the law.
The semi-state had seen paradise regained, then snatched from its jaws by an interloper at the 11th hour.
Being under attack from competition at home was bad enough, but offstage VHI was fighting a rearguard action. While the VHI's domestic domination was weakening by the hour, it was under siege from another hero of Irish business out in Europe. Charlie McCreevy is threatening court action against Ireland for allowing the VHI to trade under more favourable rules than the competition.

The VHI is privileged. It is not forced to keep as much money in its reserves as Vivas or Bupa. Indeed, it is subject to no solvency demands. McCreevy believes this is unfair to its competitors. So if Bupa and Vivas gain an edge because they do not insure as many older customers, they lose out because they are forced to keep huge sums in reserves. VHI suffers no such albatross; its antics are state-guaranteed. It cannot go bust.

The market is distorted in both directions. The semi-state wins on the swings what it loses on the roundabouts. But it wins by a mile as the biggest whinger about the practices of its private sector opponents.

Sean makes business buzz. He challenged the CRH monopoly - and succeeded.

Sean was fed up with paying excessive insurance on his lorries, so he founded Quinn Direct and built the most successful insurance business in Ireland.

Sean bought 20 per cent of Conor O'Kelly's live-wire stockbrokers, NCB (once owned by Dermot Desmond, but where the enterprise culture still survives), and has since seen them challenge stuffy establishment brokers Davy and Goodbody.

Two weeks ago Sean bought 5 per cent of an Irish bank. Not blue-chip BoI or AIB. Sean targeted the anti-establishment Anglo Irish Bank - and spent €570m buying its shares.
This genius, who started his business life selling sand and gravel from his family's Fermanagh back garden, has combined being a champion of the customer with making a mint.

A logical step for a man with heretical instincts, a healthy force for revolution in Irish business.
This week we should salute a businessman who managed to rescue 300 Bupa staff from the dole, 450,000 customers from the clutches of the VHI - and the Government from an embarrassing lack of competition.

[seafoid]

anti establishment? anglo Irish? Pull the other wan

[muppet]

anti establishment? anglo Irish? Pull the other wan

Maybe he meant in a sort of bankrupt the nation way........

[armaghniac]

Anglo Irish Bank has today announced a loss of €12.7bn for the 15-month period to December 31, 2009, the biggest corporate losses in Irish history.

Someone worked this out as €322 a second. It makes you think!

[sammymaguire]

any mention of corporate governance on this thread?   

[Shamrock Shore]

Would lodging this help?

[seafoid]

Anglo Irish Bank has today announced a loss of €12.7bn for the 15-month period to December 31, 2009, the biggest corporate losses in Irish history.

Someone worked this out as €322 a second. It makes you think!

That is some going on a loan book of 70bn. The former Financial Regulator, John Hurley, should be strung up.
Fianna Fail should be outlawed. The costs to the taxpayer are unbelievable. Who owns Anglo's bonds?
On what basis did Biffo and Lenihan decide to include Anglo in the bank guarantee scheme?   

[Declan]

On what basis did Biffo and Lenihan decide to include Anglo in the bank guarantee scheme?

Do you really have to ask that question seafoid?

Lying thieves always stick together.
http://www.gubuwire.com/?p=2469

[muppet]

On what basis did Biffo and Lenihan decide to include Anglo in the bank guarantee scheme?

Do you really have to ask that question seafoid?

Lying thieves always stick together.
http://www.gubuwire.com/?p=2469

Brilliant.

If only.......

[muppet]

All throughout the construction of NAMA Lenny has talked about getting the best value for the taxpayer. That is all great sounding but the problem is, as taxpayers, they get to take extra money off us to pay for this and basically we never get it back.

One of the scariest excuses being bandied about for not letting Anglo go to the wall is that bondholders might lose confidence, basically they wouldn't lend to our government or banks again. In addition they get interest, lots of it when confidence is low. Lucky them, they get a choice. We don't.

If the government really want to give the taxpayer value for money why don't they offer to pay us interest on every cent of extra tax each individual in the State is paying since the levy etc. were introduced in 2008? Seeing as confidence is low I'd suggest a rate equal to what the government pay the bond market.