The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[the Deel Rover]

any one see primetime last night it said that only 30 developers are responsible fro the 90billion write off surely it can't be that few or can it   

[ludermor]

i think they said the top 30 are responsible for the most but said up to 1000 developers owe over 10million which is a staggering figure.
Did you see the union lad ( joe o connor?) and the economist from trinity talking about the prosoped social welfare cuts? The union lad went on the normal rant about the banks buyout and nama but when the economist tried to explain that we didnt physically have the money for nama he just didnt understand, he thought there was a big bag of money we could be using to pay out on social welfare.

[the Deel Rover]

i think they said the top 30 are responsible for the most but said up to 1000 developers owe over 10million which is a staggering figure.
Did you see the union lad ( joe o connor?) and the economist from trinity talking about the prosoped social welfare cuts? The union lad went on the normal rant about the banks buyout and nama but when the economist tried to explain that we didnt physically have the money for nama he just didnt understand, he thought there was a big bag of money we could be using to pay out on social welfare.

Aren't all these cutbacks just a drop in the ocean it said last night that the government is borrowing €400 million per week surely this can't go on. it looks to me like we are well and truly fcuked .

[Main Street]

If the bank guarantee was a huge gamble, is NAMA double or quits?

NAMA is not double or quits , NAMA is at least dectuple or quits.

Much of the talk to justify NAMA is based on the Swedish model of the early 1990's.
There is actually very little comparison on scales of crisis.

In Sweden, about 4% of the GDP was staked on buying up bad Bank property loans
In Ireland the plan is for  >50% of the GDP
Before the Swedish NAMA sucked up the bad loans, the bad loans were already written down by the Banks.
Sweden had a bubble in a bicycle tyre,  Ireland has a Hindenburg.

[tyronefan]

what are the options

If we dont go with Nama what other routes are open to us.

I hear a lot of discussion on the media against Nama but very few ideas what to do instead. If this is such a bad idea with so many risks surely some of these finanical gurus must have a better idea

[Declan]

Nationalise the banks is one option - take back all the land and properties these boyos have all around the place and start again.
All the financial gurus have a vested interest in keeping the party going!!

[tyronefan]

but do we not still own the land if we nationalise the banks, it doesn't really solve the problem only leaves the state running the banks and judging by how they run everything else I don't know if thats the best way forward

[Declan]

judging by how they run everything else I don't know if thats the best way forward

Anf the lads in charge of them have done such a good job themselves!!!

[tyronefan]

   aye you have a point there declan

[ludermor]

i think they said the top 30 are responsible for the most but said up to 1000 developers owe over 10million which is a staggering figure.
Did you see the union lad ( joe o connor?) and the economist from trinity talking about the prosoped social welfare cuts? The union lad went on the normal rant about the banks buyout and nama but when the economist tried to explain that we didnt physically have the money for nama he just didnt understand, he thought there was a big bag of money we could be using to pay out on social welfare.

Aren't all these cutbacks just a drop in the ocean it said last night that the government is borrowing €400 million per week surely this can't go on. it looks to me like we are well and truly fcuked .

It is bleak but there has to be an overhaul of th ewelfare system, i know several english familys at home who have never ( and i mean never) worked a day in their life, they moved to ireland and are getting dole and all the add ons ( childerns allowance, medical card etc)  and a 4 bedroom house, one of them giving out about living on 500 euro a week ( they have 2 kids) even though they are getting a house for nothing!!

[FermGael]

Reports on the news this morning that a Canadian bank was interested in AIB subject to Nama.

I suppose if all the bad building loans were gone, they would still be a good business and there would be very little risk for them.
Could make a good profit meanwhile the Irish taxpayer will be paying the bill for generations.

[Main Street]

Irish people will be just paying the interest for years.

A new era of economic colonialism is dawning, funded by the taxpayer. 

[Bogball XV]

but do we not still own the land if we nationalise the banks, it doesn't really solve the problem only leaves the state running the banks and judging by how they run everything else I don't know if thats the best way forward

we could buy the banks for approx 10bn, it'd be cheaper than buying their loanbooks for 90bn and there might even be an upside (for the taxpayer as opposed to investors).
It's been ruled out because lenno and the genuises at the dept of finance (the same people who didn't understand that the pension levy would be tax deductible) have decided that nationalisation is like something from Citizen Smith and that we're not in the 70's anymore.  It's also a sleight of hand in that if we nationalise the banks then our national debt increases, the NAMA route makes it look like the banks are taking on the extra debt as they take the govt's bonds to the ecb and borrow against them.

All in all, NAMA is a disgrace, the fact that outside investors are looking to take a part of AIB conditional on the loanbook being sold off shows just how bad a deal the taxpayer is getting here.  Some lad from Bloxham was on talking there, he reckoned that the fact that outsiders were interested in investing showed just how brilliant an idea NAMA was and that outside confidence was being restored by lenno's brilliant plan.

[Billys Boots]

Some lad from Bloxham was on talking there

If RTÉ can get folks to come on and say that some financial plan is a brilliant idea, then it's a fairly safe bet that the complete opposite is the case. 

[tyronefan]

but do we not still own the land if we nationalise the banks, it doesn't really solve the problem only leaves the state running the banks and judging by how they run everything else I don't know if thats the best way forward

we could buy the banks for approx 10bn, it'd be cheaper than buying their loanbooks for 90bn and there might even be an upside (for the taxpayer as opposed to investors).
It's been ruled out because lenno and the genuises at the dept of finance (the same people who didn't understand that the pension levy would be tax deductible) have decided that nationalisation is like something from Citizen Smith and that we're not in the 70's anymore.  It's also a sleight of hand in that if we nationalise the banks then our national debt increases, the NAMA route makes it look like the banks are taking on the extra debt as they take the govt's bonds to the ecb and borrow against them.

All in all, NAMA is a disgrace, the fact that outside investors are looking to take a part of AIB conditional on the loanbook being sold off shows just how bad a deal the taxpayer is getting here.  Some lad from Bloxham was on talking there, he reckoned that the fact that outsiders were interested in investing showed just how brilliant an idea NAMA was and that outside confidence was being restored by lenno's brilliant plan.

I am not sure if I understand this correctly, but if we as tax payers take over the banks do we not assume their debts also which includes the bad loans